July 11, 2024 • 22 mins
In this episode of the #TherapistsConnect podcast, Dr Peter Blundell interviews Tom Smithson. Tom set up New Horizon counselling in 2018. He's a BACP registered therapist supervisor, and tutor with many years of extensive therapeutic experience. He's provided over 5,000 hours of clinical counselling and psychotherapy to adult clients. And he specializes in working with people from the LGBTQIA-plus community. And he's also writing a book about his work, which he tells us about in this episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Peter Blundell (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to another episode.
(00:01):
It's a therapist connectpodcast.
My name is Dr.
Peter Blundell and today I'mhere interviewing Tom Smithson.
Tom set up new horizoncounseling in 2018.
He's a BACP registered therapistsupervisor, and tutor that with
many years of expensivetherapeutic experience.
He's provided over 5,000 hoursof clinical counseling and
psychotherapy to adult clients.
(00:23):
And he specializes in workingwith LGBTQ.
A plus community.
And he's also writing a bookabout his work, which is going
to tell him, tell us about inthis episode.
If you liked this episode,please leave us a review in your
favorite podcast platform.
Hello, Tom.
Welcome to the Therapist Connectpodcast.
Thomas Smithson (00:40):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Dr Peter Blundell (00:42):
No, it's wonderful to have you here and
we haven't chatted that muchbefore this podcast.
So it's going to be reallyinteresting to ask some
questions, find out a little bitmore about you and I'm sure our
listeners are going to beinterested about you and your
career so far.
So maybe to help our listenersget to know you a little bit,
can you chat a little bit abouthow you came to be a therapist
in the first place and what drewyou to the therapy profession?
Thomas Smithson (01:03):
Yeah, sure.
So I, I feel like I've, this islike a story that you tell
often.
So I feel like I've got it down.
It was never like a plan.
Most of my life has never been aplan to be honest.
So I had, I wasn't happy when Iwas 21, the kind of I think it's
quite universal that peopleexpect 21 to be amazing.
But I didn't go to university,all this stuff wasn't going on.
So I ended up, long story short,I ended up in therapy.
(01:25):
And in that kind of process, Istarted to think, hang on, this
is something people do for ajob.
This is I, it changed my life.
And I was like, oh, is thissomething that I could do,
especially when I was reallylost at where I was at.
So I got a bit curious about itand then I did a open university
course in psychology andrealized that was way too
(01:46):
academic for me.
So then I dipped my toe into thelevel two course, I could then
not commit to anything longerthan that.
And then as soon as I startedlevel two I fell in love with it
quite quickly.
And my tutor was amazing and Imade some friends and I was
really isolated back then aswell so I was connecting with
other people.
And then level three happenedand then level four and then I
(02:09):
had my placements and there'svery rarely anything bad I have
to say about that wholeexperience other than, the few
things that come up.
So yeah, it was pretty much justlike step by step for me.
And then I think by the time Iwas in my year two of my level
four, I think that's when Iactually started thinking, Oh,
I'm probably going to do this asa job now.
I don't know if I ever, I can'tremember ever putting two and
(02:31):
two together.
I think I was just doing it.
And then people started talkingabout what they were doing after
the diploma.
And that's when I recognizedthat.
I want to do this.
And I had three placementswhilst training and I loved all
of them.
So yeah, it was, I really fellin love with it very quickly.
Dr Peter Blundell (02:47):
That's really interesting.
Listen to you talk.
It resonates a little bit withmy own career and how I
progressed because I did apsychology degree and then
started the level two and I wasa little bit similar to yourself
actually in terms of startingthe courses and not really
thinking about counselling as ajob necessarily, just Oh, I
really enjoy this and likekeeping going and going up the
(03:08):
levels.
And but it's interesting, itwasn't until your second year
that you thought, Oh yeah, I'mgoing to, this is going to be my
career.
Thomas Smithson (03:14):
Yeah.
And that was the exciting thingabout it.
One of my closest friends thatI'm still close with now, I
think she started talking aboutwhat she was doing and she was
setting up websites and stuffand then it dawned on me and
ever since then we've bouncedoff each other.
But I really, do you know theclassic thing that tutors say of
enjoying the journey?
At the time, I think, especiallyin that last year, I was like, I
don't want to enjoy the journeyanymore.
I, I want to be done.
But it's so true of actually waswhat worked best for me.
(03:37):
I was in a fortunate positionwhere I was living with my
parents, my job let me do thehours that I wanted to do.
So it was relatively stressfree.
And so I was trying to enjoy itas much as possible until the
end where you're desperate tofinish.
Dr Peter Blundell (03:48):
Yeah, it's so funny as we're recording this
our second year students havejust finished and they are in a
place where you can just seethey're ready to finish now.
Thomas Smithson (03:58):
You don't know more books, nothing else.
Exactly.
It's I can't write any moreessays, like it's time to be a
therapist and kind of, and nothave to think about some of that
other stuff.
Dr Peter Blundell (04:07):
Yeah, no, I absolutely get that.
So you qualified and then youobviously.
decided, this was going to bethe career for you.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your career so far and
how, what that looks like?
Thomas Smithson (04:18):
I quit my job immediately, which is, I tell
the story quite a lot.
Not, I wouldn't recommend thatat all.
I had this fantasy that I wasgoing to go into private
practice and be full of clientsand be super successful.
Lots of people nudging me intoweaning into it, but I didn't
want to The version of me backthen was just like, let's just
do it.
So I quit my job had three weeksoff.
(04:39):
And then I hired a whole office,like a 24 seven office in
Croydon.
I start my private practice, satdown day one and realized I had
no clients and was paying 600pounds a month for this office.
But if anything, that.
That made me that, thatexperience because I had to
rapidly learn how to run abusiness, which of course, very
(05:00):
rarely do courses teach you thatside of stuff as well.
But I knew I wanted to go inprivate practice straight away
because I was told that I wouldnever get a job post
qualification.
I don't actually think that'strue anymore.
But I was told back then and Iwas like, I'm not working in a
call center anymore.
So I did that.
One of my placements is workingwith LGBTQ plus clients.
I'm a gay cis man myself so Istarted to advertise and working
(05:21):
towards that group because I'vebeen doing a lot of reading and
there was hardly any kind ofprivate specialist services in
Croydon either.
And that started to take off.
And.
bar a few really tricky months.
That was October.
Come February, I felt a bit morestable, but it was very much
hand to mouth for a while.
But that was my private practiceand I did that for I'm still
(05:42):
doing it now, but after a coupleof years I get itchy feet quite
a lot.
I a saying where I that's one ofthe best things about being a
therapist.
You never really get bored.
So I was ready for somethingnew.
So then I did a master's andthat was while we were in
lockdown.
So that was online.
which I had no problem with.
And it was really flexible.
You could write about stuffyou're passionate about.
So I wrote about queerexperience and all of this sort
of stuff.
(06:03):
Then I did supervision.
I had some time to spare withthe whole COVID situation.
So I did a supervision course.
I do supervision now, but I justnever fell in love with it.
My, my love is still with clientwork.
And yeah, and that's where I'vemostly got to.
And then over the last couple ofyears, I've been starting to
write recognizing that I'm notbad at it.
I always used to, one of the,when I was a kid, I didn't have
(06:24):
the best time at school.
So I left school thinkingeducation or writing wasn't an
option.
And then from there I startedplaying around with an idea of
writing a book for othertherapists because I kept on
hearing all of these storiesabout how obviously you're not
trained much in, in writing.
a lot of courses about workingwith LGBTQ plus clients, any
sort of difference in diverse,to be honest.
(06:44):
I think we, we had two weekseach year, which is nothing.
And one of those weeks I did apresentation to the class.
So it was okay.
Where's my paycheck?
So yeah, so I thought I wantedto write a book.
I know there's loads of booksout there, but when it comes
down to educational texts, Ireally struggle with them
because my mind, I don't knowwhat happens when my mind is
relatively neurodiverse, sosomething happens.
(07:05):
So I thought I'd want to write achatty book incorporate some of
the stuff that I've learned anddone through my work with LGBTQ
plus clients.
Many rejections later, I've gota contract with Karnac, so that
should be out next year, butthat's where my focus is right
now.
So it's been a long journey.
But yeah, I feel like I'mparking lots of things so I can
focus on that now.
Yeah, it's all exciting stuff.
(07:26):
I've loved most moments of it,bar the thousands of words you
have to write.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:31):
There's loads in there.
So you doing your masters andthen a supervision course and
then and then writing your book.
So is the book finished andyou're ready to go or are you
still in the process offinalizing that at the moment?
Thomas Smithson (07:45):
It's not a lot more to go.
So I was.
I had written a book that is ona shelf somewhere and it's not
very good.
And so I adapted it.
And this time around I thoughtI'm not going to bother writing
a book until I have a contract,I was quite stubborn about that.
So I created like a, I had a lotof help creating a proposal, and
then Karnac took it up, theywere my, lucky, I think they
(08:06):
were my 13th that I went to.
So then I was like, Oh God, Iactually have to write this.
So it's split into three parts.
The first part's about things tolook out for with queer clients.
The second client, the secondpart is about like our narrative
the lives that queer peoplemight think that they are
supposed to live versus the lifethat they want to live.
And then the last part's aboutthings that you can do to help
(08:27):
foster a joyful life, for lackof a better word.
Part one and part two.
I drafted part three is 500words in and have 25, 000 more
to do.
I figured that out yesterday andthat was slightly daunting.
Seeing 25, I've got a countdownas well.
So it says 20, 25, 000 and it'sokay,
Dr Peter Blundell (08:45):
just to really hammer it home to
yourself.
Thomas Smithson (08:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And I hate it because I thinkone, once I deleted loads and
it's, it tells you the minus.
So I think one day I had writtenminus 2000 words, but that's
part of the process, yeah.
Dr Peter Blundell (08:58):
Congrats on getting so well, one getting the
book deal and then being so farinto writing the book.
It sounds like it's going to bereally interesting and it sounds
like what you're saying as wellis that you can leaning away
from like the academic kind oflanguage and trying to make it
more accessible read forpractitioners.
Thomas Smithson (09:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
I don't know if this is itpotentially just in terms of the
people that I speak to, butsometimes I find that a lot of
queer people are reading thequeer textbooks.
And it's everyone should bereading them.
So I'm really trying to pushthat this is a book for all
therapists to read.
Because, in many ways, the queertherapists are the ones that are
(09:33):
writing them and understandthem.
And we go to them because wewant to top up our knowledge
but, this is something thateveryone needs to be reading.
Especially because of the lackof training there is in courses.
Dr Peter Blundell (09:43):
No, I think that's really important.
And I was speaking to somebodythe other day and they put on
some kind of training workingwith queer clients in
psychotherapy and 90 percent ofthe people who turned up were
queer people.
Thomas Smithson (09:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's something I've alsoheard and experienced as well.
It's these courses are foreveryone, but why is not
everyone turning up?
And I think sometimes there's afear, isn't there?
That's one thing I struggle withI guess all humans, where a lot
of shaming can be done about whydon't you know about this
identity or why don't you knowabout that?
So I think it can put off somepeople to go to those courses
because they're scared ofgetting it wrong, but it's come
(10:16):
to the courses, So you can getit wrong to get it right, if
that makes sense.
Dr Peter Blundell (10:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I suppose people need thosetexts, books and books to enter
into a subject area that theymight be unfamiliar with in a
kind of safe way.
So they can start to educatethemselves around things like
that.
So it sounds sounds reallyinteresting.
I know you're still working onit, so you can't give us the
kind of full details of the bookand stuff like that.
But when it's ready to go, letus know.
(10:39):
We'd retweet about it.
on the Therapists Connectaccounts.
The other thing I just wanted topick up on which I thought was
really interesting was you saidthat you did your supervision
qualification.
Yeah.
But it was not something thatyou particularly fell in love
with.
And I just thought that was, Ijust thought it was an
interesting point because Iwonder whether that's something
that isn't talked about thatmuch in terms of people
qualifying as supervisors.
Thomas Smithson (11:00):
Yeah, I guess I think I had to in my head that's
like the next thing that's worthdoing.
It's all about, especially inprivate practice, diversifying
your practice and doing thesethings.
So I thought, I'd really likeit.
I don't know.
I was quite excited aboutworking with other therapists
and hearing how they do stuff,which I do enjoy.
Don't get me wrong.
I still see supervisees, but.
For some reason, I think I hadan idea that I'd be a 50 50
(11:20):
split, whereas now it may belike 10%.
And I think when I think aboutit, it's because in client work,
you can really build thatrelationship.
Whereas in supervision work,yes, you have a relationship
with the supervisee.
The clients, it's just really,it's quite bitty.
And that's where I figured out,Oh, actually, I'm more.
(11:42):
For lack of a better word,emotionally invested in the
clients.
And I'm a nosy person and Ialways want to know, I want to
know what's going to happen nextor could, What's the history of
something so I think it was,it's too detached in a way,
whereas with client work you'rein the deep end together.
Dr Peter Blundell (11:58):
And I was thinking about supervision
especially don't always get thatupdate about what's going on,
because they might have moved onto somebody else or they're
talking about a different clientor they're talking about their
own experience.
experience.
And you probably don't see themquite as often.
Thomas Smithson (12:09):
Yeah, exactly.
And a few of my supervising, Idon't know if this was just how
it worked out, but a few of themwork in placements where it's a
six week model.
So it's very I can't feelanything about it.
About these clients and it feelsreally horrible because they'll
say something about a a clientthey're working with.
My brain will immediately go,Oh, this would be really helpful
to work on.
(12:29):
But actually most of the timeI'm telling them what not to
work on.
So it doesn't open up a can ofworms.
So I think maybe I just need tobe working with therapists that
work long term perhaps that'llchange it for me.
I don't know.
And that's how it worked out.
Dr Peter Blundell (12:41):
I think that makes sense to me because I
suppose working with studentswho I see on placement and,
maybe working for clients forthe first time and a client
brings five, six issues orsignificant trauma and they've
only got six sessions to explorestuff and trying to be sensitive
to that and explore what theclient wants to explore, but not
open up like a huge issue forthe client where they don't have
(13:03):
the space and time to workthrough it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's challenging.
So how would you define yourtherapeutic approach then?
And has that kind of changedover the time that you've been
qualified?
Thomas Smithson (13:15):
Yeah, it's definitely changed.
I was thinking about thisquestion a lot because the more
as the years go on, the more Ican't answer it.
I still struggle to answer it.
So I have a technical answer andthen I don't know, a waffle of
an answer.
My technical one is that mytraining is integrative, person
centered and psychodynamic.
I love them both.
My favorite is probablypsychodynamic.
But there really is a foundationof the person centered in terms
(13:35):
of, in its basics that holdingspace.
Then Since qualifying, there'san existential element to my
work.
I absolutely love Irvin Yalomand the way he works, elements
of that I wouldn't do, but tryto incorporate that into my
practice.
I'm very much an existentialistin terms of I often think about
what's the point of life.
So I get quite excited when wecan have those conversations
(13:58):
with clients.
So that's like the technicalside of it, but, The waffle part
is that a lot of it just goesout the window, I think,
depending on who you're workingwith.
And sometimes I do things and Ithink, God, if my tutor is
watching this, what they think,what are you doing, Tom?
But I know that it's for theinterest best interest for the
client, and I know it's ethicaland that's, you have to, for me,
(14:18):
I do this kind of, I tried to dothis way up of, okay, I feel
like I should be doing this, butit feels right to do this.
And is that okay?
What am I saying?
The million questions you haveto ask yourself.
So these days it's more.
I will just change depending onwho's in front of me and what
they want.
Sometimes we, I do creativestuff.
Sometimes I go, we go for a walkwith some clients that are local
(14:39):
to me.
So I just like mixing up.
There's a, I feel like this is adangerous word, but there's an
experimentation but an ethicalone.
Where with my clients, I'll say,should we give this a go?
Feel free to say that was acomplete waste of time, Tom.
But sometimes it works out morethan often than not I'd say.
I could also say I actuallysometimes I feel like I don't
know what I'm doing.
If clients are happy, I'm happy.
Dr Peter Blundell (15:00):
Yeah.
But part of this feels likethat's part of being a
therapist, isn't it?
It's being in there and going,Oh, where is this going?
What's actually happening here?
Yeah.
I know seeing students learn thetheory as they're going along
and it's yeah, you can learn allthis theory, it backs up what
you're doing, but then whenyou're in the room are you
really sat there thinking aboutthis theoretical idea or
whatever, or are you actuallyjust in relationship with the
(15:20):
client, aren't you?
Thomas Smithson (15:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And that's the key thing.
We're like, that's something Idon't know where I read it or
whatever.
It was very much like what's theIn a way, what's the point if
you haven't got a relationship?
Yes, technically you can do somework.
But that's one of the things Ilove about private practice is
that people come to you for areason.
Dr Peter Blundell (15:36):
Wondered how do you see the wider therapy
community and how connected doyou feel with other therapists?
Thomas Smithson (15:44):
I loved this question because I'm very pro
therapists connecting withtherapists because it's a proper
saving grace for me.
I think social media isobviously massively toxic in
many ways.
I know even the stuff I post,it's very much one side of the
story.
So I play a part in that.
But the people that I've metthrough social media, the
therapists I've met throughsocial media I've got such like
a collection of friends now thatwe have.
(16:06):
We've exchanged numbers, we'reon WhatsApp I've met with a few
of them.
We ask each other for kind ofinformal advice at times.
And I never would have had thatbecause private practice, you're
pretty much alone.
I'm a bit too introverted to begoing to meet up groups.
And also I live out of Londonnow.
So having this pool of people onInstagram, it's a platform that
I would use is so lovely becauseyou get that support.
(16:30):
Meeting up with people and goingall over the place just to have
someone that kind of gets itbecause I suppose I really miss
the one thing I miss aboutworking in a call center was
that you could just have chatwith people.
You could just sit down and gohow's your day going.
Whereas, you don't get thatwhereas now on Instagram you
know you can have thatconversation.
Of course, there are people youdon't resonate with there's
(16:52):
people that won't resonate withyou, but I think as long as
you're good with your boundariesin terms of follow the people
that make you feel good, don'tfollow the people that don't
make you feel good then you'regood to go.
And that might change, peoplecome and go.
But I think without it, I don'tactually think I would have
progressed very far either.
That being said, I list thislong thing of achievements that
(17:12):
I do, but a lot of that comesfrom one, there's an element of
privilege that comes from it,but others, the amount of people
that stood there with pom pomscheering me on when I'm doing
stuff who are all therapists, Iget way more support than my
family.
And that's not a dig at myfamily.
It's a celebration of thecommunity and the connection
that we all have.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:28):
I wonder whether there's something about
because it's maybe othertherapists or people within the
profession they know the work ittakes and so they know what
works and so they want to beencouraging, they want to help
push you forward.
Whereas family, it's just oh,you're doing your job or
whatever, they don't alwaysfully understand the Exactly,
yeah.
passion behind it or whatever.
It's nice to hear the positivesthat you've got from social
(17:50):
media, because as we all know,yeah, it can be really
challenging and difficult, but Ialso like the way you were
almost talking about cultivatingyour own kind of community, if
you like, or people that you canconnect with and making sure
that you've got those supportivevoices with you.
Thomas Smithson (18:04):
Yeah.
And I think, you Where would webe without it as well?
Cause if you think about ourtraining, we're in a massive
group of people.
And then suddenly you're off.
And even if you get a job in anagency, you're just by yourself
as well.
So it's I wish the tutors hadsaid, keep this, a bit more
seriously than they might'vedone.
Dr Peter Blundell (18:21):
Yeah.
There's a lot of, I know a lotof students a bit might not be
on social media and as they'requalifying a little bit
apprehensive.
And I can understand thatbecause maybe you're still
finding your feet as atherapist.
But I think once you have anidentity of who you are as a
therapist, I think there's loadsof opportunities to connect with
other people who are fromsimilar backgrounds.
And if you're in privatepractice, it can be very lonely.
(18:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
On your own.
Thomas Smithson (18:43):
Especially now it's online as well.
When I worked in, I had anoffice in Croydon, I'd still,
there'd be people in otheroffices, so I'd still have a
chat.
Whereas when, if you're solelyworking online, which most of my
work is, there's no one.
And, I live with my partner, butJesus, we spend all of our time
together.
We don't want No more
Dr Peter Blundell (19:01):
need other people.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Thomas Smithson (19:03):
There's enough of you.
Where's where's everyone else?
Dr Peter Blundell (19:06):
No, I get that.
Yeah.
What do you think is the biggestchallenge that the counseling
and psychotherapy professionsface right now?
Thomas Smithson (19:14):
I think modernizing is the, it's a, it
is a huge one for me.
I'd say this a bit selfishly,but I had a, an article that I
did with BSP aboutself-disclosing going on
adoption leave at some point.
And.
the guidance, there was hardlyany guidance for the specifics
of adoption and being a gay man.
And every time I asked people,including the BACP, what should
(19:35):
I do?
They were quite unsure for lackof better words.
So I think modernizing in termsof working with the wider
intersectionality of therapistsbecause even though the
diversity within therapy astherapists still isn't huge, I
think it isn't like from what Isee at least, and maybe I've
just got blinkers on, but fromwhat I see more people accessing
(19:55):
it.
So catching up to that, catchingup to like laws.
I won't go into a rant aboutcertain organizations, actually
catching up to protect everyclient, not the clients that a,
wider does society thinksdeserves more than others?
Does that make sense?
Dr Peter Blundell (20:13):
Yeah, it does make sense.
I've not heard it phrased likethat modernizing the profession,
but it's understanding that lifethrough that intersectional
lens, but also making sure thatthere's the advice and the
guidance available fortherapists.
I was also thinking about thatdifficulty in terms of like when
you're training, like makingsure that the.
training organizations are up todate with the current kind of
(20:35):
research and education, but alsothen when you're in private
practice, like making sure thatyou keep up to date with it as
well which is like a personalresponsibility.
And then obviously themembership body's responsibility
as well.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
So I've come to the end of ourquestions which is, that's just
absolutely flown by.
I suppose my last question justwould be what are your future
(20:56):
plans that you'd like to tell usabout?
I know you've got the book butis there anything else that
you've got going on?
Thomas Smithson (21:00):
My Instagram and I have a newsletter where I
do some random writing stuff.
But my main focus of my book,I'm going to take off a bit of
time from everything in a fewmonths hopefully.
But yeah, the book is the pushbecause I think no one ever
tells you, it's like the fantasyof a book is fantastic, but when
it comes down to actuallywriting it, I joked with my
friend who's also writing a bookI've probably spent more money
(21:21):
than I'll ever make on thisbook.
And I'm not making it for moneyanyway, when it's actually the
amount of time I've taken off,the amount of coffee and pastry
I've paid for, we're well in thered now anyway, but I've got it.
I've got a deal.
So I'm just cracking on.
So yeah, just the book andconcentrating on family as well.
Dr Peter Blundell (21:35):
I think.
That's lovely.
I heard Sheila Haugh say thatshe hates writing, but she loves
the outcome.
Thomas Smithson (21:41):
That's right.
Yes.
Yeah.
Dr Peter Blundell (21:43):
You're not quite there yet, but hopefully
if we're ready soon we will putall your social media details in
the show notes, but I don't knowif you want to say your
Instagram account, people whowant to find you.
Thomas Smithson (21:53):
Yeah, thanks.
My Instagram's@newh counseling.
And yeah, that's it.
I'm just on Instagram.
That's brilliant.
Everything else is too busy.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:01):
Tom, it's been wonderful chatting to you.
Thomas Smithson (22:03):
Thank you so much.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:04):
Good luck with the book when it comes out.
Thomas Smithson (22:06):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:07):
Take care.
Hello, and welcome to another episode.
(00:01):
It's a therapist connectpodcast.
My name is Dr.
Peter Blundell and today I'mhere interviewing Tom Smithson.
Tom set up new horizoncounseling in 2018.
He's a BACP registered therapistsupervisor, and tutor that with
many years of expensivetherapeutic experience.
He's provided over 5,000 hoursof clinical counseling and
psychotherapy to adult clients.
(00:23):
And he specializes in workingwith LGBTQ.
A plus community.
And he's also writing a bookabout his work, which is going
to tell him, tell us about inthis episode.
If you liked this episode,please leave us a review in your
favorite podcast platform.
Hello, Tom.
Welcome to the Therapist Connectpodcast.
Thomas Smithson (00:40):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Dr Peter Blundell (00:42):
No, it's wonderful to have you here and
we haven't chatted that muchbefore this podcast.
So it's going to be reallyinteresting to ask some
questions, find out a little bitmore about you and I'm sure our
listeners are going to beinterested about you and your
career so far.
So maybe to help our listenersget to know you a little bit,
can you chat a little bit abouthow you came to be a therapist
in the first place and what drewyou to the therapy profession?
Thomas Smithson (01:03):
Yeah, sure.
So I, I feel like I've, this islike a story that you tell
often.
So I feel like I've got it down.
It was never like a plan.
Most of my life has never been aplan to be honest.
So I had, I wasn't happy when Iwas 21, the kind of I think it's
quite universal that peopleexpect 21 to be amazing.
But I didn't go to university,all this stuff wasn't going on.
So I ended up, long story short,I ended up in therapy.
(01:25):
And in that kind of process, Istarted to think, hang on, this
is something people do for ajob.
This is I, it changed my life.
And I was like, oh, is thissomething that I could do,
especially when I was reallylost at where I was at.
So I got a bit curious about itand then I did a open university
course in psychology andrealized that was way too
(01:46):
academic for me.
So then I dipped my toe into thelevel two course, I could then
not commit to anything longerthan that.
And then as soon as I startedlevel two I fell in love with it
quite quickly.
And my tutor was amazing and Imade some friends and I was
really isolated back then aswell so I was connecting with
other people.
And then level three happenedand then level four and then I
(02:09):
had my placements and there'svery rarely anything bad I have
to say about that wholeexperience other than, the few
things that come up.
So yeah, it was pretty much justlike step by step for me.
And then I think by the time Iwas in my year two of my level
four, I think that's when Iactually started thinking, Oh,
I'm probably going to do this asa job now.
I don't know if I ever, I can'tremember ever putting two and
(02:31):
two together.
I think I was just doing it.
And then people started talkingabout what they were doing after
the diploma.
And that's when I recognizedthat.
I want to do this.
And I had three placementswhilst training and I loved all
of them.
So yeah, it was, I really fellin love with it very quickly.
Dr Peter Blundell (02:47):
That's really interesting.
Listen to you talk.
It resonates a little bit withmy own career and how I
progressed because I did apsychology degree and then
started the level two and I wasa little bit similar to yourself
actually in terms of startingthe courses and not really
thinking about counselling as ajob necessarily, just Oh, I
really enjoy this and likekeeping going and going up the
(03:08):
levels.
And but it's interesting, itwasn't until your second year
that you thought, Oh yeah, I'mgoing to, this is going to be my
career.
Thomas Smithson (03:14):
Yeah.
And that was the exciting thingabout it.
One of my closest friends thatI'm still close with now, I
think she started talking aboutwhat she was doing and she was
setting up websites and stuffand then it dawned on me and
ever since then we've bouncedoff each other.
But I really, do you know theclassic thing that tutors say of
enjoying the journey?
At the time, I think, especiallyin that last year, I was like, I
don't want to enjoy the journeyanymore.
I, I want to be done.
But it's so true of actually waswhat worked best for me.
(03:37):
I was in a fortunate positionwhere I was living with my
parents, my job let me do thehours that I wanted to do.
So it was relatively stressfree.
And so I was trying to enjoy itas much as possible until the
end where you're desperate tofinish.
Dr Peter Blundell (03:48):
Yeah, it's so funny as we're recording this
our second year students havejust finished and they are in a
place where you can just seethey're ready to finish now.
Thomas Smithson (03:58):
You don't know more books, nothing else.
Exactly.
It's I can't write any moreessays, like it's time to be a
therapist and kind of, and nothave to think about some of that
other stuff.
Dr Peter Blundell (04:07):
Yeah, no, I absolutely get that.
So you qualified and then youobviously.
decided, this was going to bethe career for you.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your career so far and
how, what that looks like?
Thomas Smithson (04:18):
I quit my job immediately, which is, I tell
the story quite a lot.
Not, I wouldn't recommend thatat all.
I had this fantasy that I wasgoing to go into private
practice and be full of clientsand be super successful.
Lots of people nudging me intoweaning into it, but I didn't
want to The version of me backthen was just like, let's just
do it.
So I quit my job had three weeksoff.
(04:39):
And then I hired a whole office,like a 24 seven office in
Croydon.
I start my private practice, satdown day one and realized I had
no clients and was paying 600pounds a month for this office.
But if anything, that.
That made me that, thatexperience because I had to
rapidly learn how to run abusiness, which of course, very
(05:00):
rarely do courses teach you thatside of stuff as well.
But I knew I wanted to go inprivate practice straight away
because I was told that I wouldnever get a job post
qualification.
I don't actually think that'strue anymore.
But I was told back then and Iwas like, I'm not working in a
call center anymore.
So I did that.
One of my placements is workingwith LGBTQ plus clients.
I'm a gay cis man myself so Istarted to advertise and working
(05:21):
towards that group because I'vebeen doing a lot of reading and
there was hardly any kind ofprivate specialist services in
Croydon either.
And that started to take off.
And.
bar a few really tricky months.
That was October.
Come February, I felt a bit morestable, but it was very much
hand to mouth for a while.
But that was my private practiceand I did that for I'm still
(05:42):
doing it now, but after a coupleof years I get itchy feet quite
a lot.
I a saying where I that's one ofthe best things about being a
therapist.
You never really get bored.
So I was ready for somethingnew.
So then I did a master's andthat was while we were in
lockdown.
So that was online.
which I had no problem with.
And it was really flexible.
You could write about stuffyou're passionate about.
So I wrote about queerexperience and all of this sort
of stuff.
(06:03):
Then I did supervision.
I had some time to spare withthe whole COVID situation.
So I did a supervision course.
I do supervision now, but I justnever fell in love with it.
My, my love is still with clientwork.
And yeah, and that's where I'vemostly got to.
And then over the last couple ofyears, I've been starting to
write recognizing that I'm notbad at it.
I always used to, one of the,when I was a kid, I didn't have
(06:24):
the best time at school.
So I left school thinkingeducation or writing wasn't an
option.
And then from there I startedplaying around with an idea of
writing a book for othertherapists because I kept on
hearing all of these storiesabout how obviously you're not
trained much in, in writing.
a lot of courses about workingwith LGBTQ plus clients, any
sort of difference in diverse,to be honest.
(06:44):
I think we, we had two weekseach year, which is nothing.
And one of those weeks I did apresentation to the class.
So it was okay.
Where's my paycheck?
So yeah, so I thought I wantedto write a book.
I know there's loads of booksout there, but when it comes
down to educational texts, Ireally struggle with them
because my mind, I don't knowwhat happens when my mind is
relatively neurodiverse, sosomething happens.
(07:05):
So I thought I'd want to write achatty book incorporate some of
the stuff that I've learned anddone through my work with LGBTQ
plus clients.
Many rejections later, I've gota contract with Karnac, so that
should be out next year, butthat's where my focus is right
now.
So it's been a long journey.
But yeah, I feel like I'mparking lots of things so I can
focus on that now.
Yeah, it's all exciting stuff.
(07:26):
I've loved most moments of it,bar the thousands of words you
have to write.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:31):
There's loads in there.
So you doing your masters andthen a supervision course and
then and then writing your book.
So is the book finished andyou're ready to go or are you
still in the process offinalizing that at the moment?
Thomas Smithson (07:45):
It's not a lot more to go.
So I was.
I had written a book that is ona shelf somewhere and it's not
very good.
And so I adapted it.
And this time around I thoughtI'm not going to bother writing
a book until I have a contract,I was quite stubborn about that.
So I created like a, I had a lotof help creating a proposal, and
then Karnac took it up, theywere my, lucky, I think they
(08:06):
were my 13th that I went to.
So then I was like, Oh God, Iactually have to write this.
So it's split into three parts.
The first part's about things tolook out for with queer clients.
The second client, the secondpart is about like our narrative
the lives that queer peoplemight think that they are
supposed to live versus the lifethat they want to live.
And then the last part's aboutthings that you can do to help
(08:27):
foster a joyful life, for lackof a better word.
Part one and part two.
I drafted part three is 500words in and have 25, 000 more
to do.
I figured that out yesterday andthat was slightly daunting.
Seeing 25, I've got a countdownas well.
So it says 20, 25, 000 and it'sokay,
Dr Peter Blundell (08:45):
just to really hammer it home to
yourself.
Thomas Smithson (08:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And I hate it because I thinkone, once I deleted loads and
it's, it tells you the minus.
So I think one day I had writtenminus 2000 words, but that's
part of the process, yeah.
Dr Peter Blundell (08:58):
Congrats on getting so well, one getting the
book deal and then being so farinto writing the book.
It sounds like it's going to bereally interesting and it sounds
like what you're saying as wellis that you can leaning away
from like the academic kind oflanguage and trying to make it
more accessible read forpractitioners.
Thomas Smithson (09:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
I don't know if this is itpotentially just in terms of the
people that I speak to, butsometimes I find that a lot of
queer people are reading thequeer textbooks.
And it's everyone should bereading them.
So I'm really trying to pushthat this is a book for all
therapists to read.
Because, in many ways, the queertherapists are the ones that are
(09:33):
writing them and understandthem.
And we go to them because wewant to top up our knowledge
but, this is something thateveryone needs to be reading.
Especially because of the lackof training there is in courses.
Dr Peter Blundell (09:43):
No, I think that's really important.
And I was speaking to somebodythe other day and they put on
some kind of training workingwith queer clients in
psychotherapy and 90 percent ofthe people who turned up were
queer people.
Thomas Smithson (09:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's something I've alsoheard and experienced as well.
It's these courses are foreveryone, but why is not
everyone turning up?
And I think sometimes there's afear, isn't there?
That's one thing I struggle withI guess all humans, where a lot
of shaming can be done about whydon't you know about this
identity or why don't you knowabout that?
So I think it can put off somepeople to go to those courses
because they're scared ofgetting it wrong, but it's come
(10:16):
to the courses, So you can getit wrong to get it right, if
that makes sense.
Dr Peter Blundell (10:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I suppose people need thosetexts, books and books to enter
into a subject area that theymight be unfamiliar with in a
kind of safe way.
So they can start to educatethemselves around things like
that.
So it sounds sounds reallyinteresting.
I know you're still working onit, so you can't give us the
kind of full details of the bookand stuff like that.
But when it's ready to go, letus know.
(10:39):
We'd retweet about it.
on the Therapists Connectaccounts.
The other thing I just wanted topick up on which I thought was
really interesting was you saidthat you did your supervision
qualification.
Yeah.
But it was not something thatyou particularly fell in love
with.
And I just thought that was, Ijust thought it was an
interesting point because Iwonder whether that's something
that isn't talked about thatmuch in terms of people
qualifying as supervisors.
Thomas Smithson (11:00):
Yeah, I guess I think I had to in my head that's
like the next thing that's worthdoing.
It's all about, especially inprivate practice, diversifying
your practice and doing thesethings.
So I thought, I'd really likeit.
I don't know.
I was quite excited aboutworking with other therapists
and hearing how they do stuff,which I do enjoy.
Don't get me wrong.
I still see supervisees, but.
For some reason, I think I hadan idea that I'd be a 50 50
(11:20):
split, whereas now it may belike 10%.
And I think when I think aboutit, it's because in client work,
you can really build thatrelationship.
Whereas in supervision work,yes, you have a relationship
with the supervisee.
The clients, it's just really,it's quite bitty.
And that's where I figured out,Oh, actually, I'm more.
(11:42):
For lack of a better word,emotionally invested in the
clients.
And I'm a nosy person and Ialways want to know, I want to
know what's going to happen nextor could, What's the history of
something so I think it was,it's too detached in a way,
whereas with client work you'rein the deep end together.
Dr Peter Blundell (11:58):
And I was thinking about supervision
especially don't always get thatupdate about what's going on,
because they might have moved onto somebody else or they're
talking about a different clientor they're talking about their
own experience.
experience.
And you probably don't see themquite as often.
Thomas Smithson (12:09):
Yeah, exactly.
And a few of my supervising, Idon't know if this was just how
it worked out, but a few of themwork in placements where it's a
six week model.
So it's very I can't feelanything about it.
About these clients and it feelsreally horrible because they'll
say something about a a clientthey're working with.
My brain will immediately go,Oh, this would be really helpful
to work on.
(12:29):
But actually most of the timeI'm telling them what not to
work on.
So it doesn't open up a can ofworms.
So I think maybe I just need tobe working with therapists that
work long term perhaps that'llchange it for me.
I don't know.
And that's how it worked out.
Dr Peter Blundell (12:41):
I think that makes sense to me because I
suppose working with studentswho I see on placement and,
maybe working for clients forthe first time and a client
brings five, six issues orsignificant trauma and they've
only got six sessions to explorestuff and trying to be sensitive
to that and explore what theclient wants to explore, but not
open up like a huge issue forthe client where they don't have
(13:03):
the space and time to workthrough it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's challenging.
So how would you define yourtherapeutic approach then?
And has that kind of changedover the time that you've been
qualified?
Thomas Smithson (13:15):
Yeah, it's definitely changed.
I was thinking about thisquestion a lot because the more
as the years go on, the more Ican't answer it.
I still struggle to answer it.
So I have a technical answer andthen I don't know, a waffle of
an answer.
My technical one is that mytraining is integrative, person
centered and psychodynamic.
I love them both.
My favorite is probablypsychodynamic.
But there really is a foundationof the person centered in terms
(13:35):
of, in its basics that holdingspace.
Then Since qualifying, there'san existential element to my
work.
I absolutely love Irvin Yalomand the way he works, elements
of that I wouldn't do, but tryto incorporate that into my
practice.
I'm very much an existentialistin terms of I often think about
what's the point of life.
So I get quite excited when wecan have those conversations
(13:58):
with clients.
So that's like the technicalside of it, but, The waffle part
is that a lot of it just goesout the window, I think,
depending on who you're workingwith.
And sometimes I do things and Ithink, God, if my tutor is
watching this, what they think,what are you doing, Tom?
But I know that it's for theinterest best interest for the
client, and I know it's ethicaland that's, you have to, for me,
(14:18):
I do this kind of, I tried to dothis way up of, okay, I feel
like I should be doing this, butit feels right to do this.
And is that okay?
What am I saying?
The million questions you haveto ask yourself.
So these days it's more.
I will just change depending onwho's in front of me and what
they want.
Sometimes we, I do creativestuff.
Sometimes I go, we go for a walkwith some clients that are local
(14:39):
to me.
So I just like mixing up.
There's a, I feel like this is adangerous word, but there's an
experimentation but an ethicalone.
Where with my clients, I'll say,should we give this a go?
Feel free to say that was acomplete waste of time, Tom.
But sometimes it works out morethan often than not I'd say.
I could also say I actuallysometimes I feel like I don't
know what I'm doing.
If clients are happy, I'm happy.
Dr Peter Blundell (15:00):
Yeah.
But part of this feels likethat's part of being a
therapist, isn't it?
It's being in there and going,Oh, where is this going?
What's actually happening here?
Yeah.
I know seeing students learn thetheory as they're going along
and it's yeah, you can learn allthis theory, it backs up what
you're doing, but then whenyou're in the room are you
really sat there thinking aboutthis theoretical idea or
whatever, or are you actuallyjust in relationship with the
(15:20):
client, aren't you?
Thomas Smithson (15:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And that's the key thing.
We're like, that's something Idon't know where I read it or
whatever.
It was very much like what's theIn a way, what's the point if
you haven't got a relationship?
Yes, technically you can do somework.
But that's one of the things Ilove about private practice is
that people come to you for areason.
Dr Peter Blundell (15:36):
Wondered how do you see the wider therapy
community and how connected doyou feel with other therapists?
Thomas Smithson (15:44):
I loved this question because I'm very pro
therapists connecting withtherapists because it's a proper
saving grace for me.
I think social media isobviously massively toxic in
many ways.
I know even the stuff I post,it's very much one side of the
story.
So I play a part in that.
But the people that I've metthrough social media, the
therapists I've met throughsocial media I've got such like
a collection of friends now thatwe have.
(16:06):
We've exchanged numbers, we'reon WhatsApp I've met with a few
of them.
We ask each other for kind ofinformal advice at times.
And I never would have had thatbecause private practice, you're
pretty much alone.
I'm a bit too introverted to begoing to meet up groups.
And also I live out of Londonnow.
So having this pool of people onInstagram, it's a platform that
I would use is so lovely becauseyou get that support.
(16:30):
Meeting up with people and goingall over the place just to have
someone that kind of gets itbecause I suppose I really miss
the one thing I miss aboutworking in a call center was
that you could just have chatwith people.
You could just sit down and gohow's your day going.
Whereas, you don't get thatwhereas now on Instagram you
know you can have thatconversation.
Of course, there are people youdon't resonate with there's
(16:52):
people that won't resonate withyou, but I think as long as
you're good with your boundariesin terms of follow the people
that make you feel good, don'tfollow the people that don't
make you feel good then you'regood to go.
And that might change, peoplecome and go.
But I think without it, I don'tactually think I would have
progressed very far either.
That being said, I list thislong thing of achievements that
(17:12):
I do, but a lot of that comesfrom one, there's an element of
privilege that comes from it,but others, the amount of people
that stood there with pom pomscheering me on when I'm doing
stuff who are all therapists, Iget way more support than my
family.
And that's not a dig at myfamily.
It's a celebration of thecommunity and the connection
that we all have.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:28):
I wonder whether there's something about
because it's maybe othertherapists or people within the
profession they know the work ittakes and so they know what
works and so they want to beencouraging, they want to help
push you forward.
Whereas family, it's just oh,you're doing your job or
whatever, they don't alwaysfully understand the Exactly,
yeah.
passion behind it or whatever.
It's nice to hear the positivesthat you've got from social
(17:50):
media, because as we all know,yeah, it can be really
challenging and difficult, but Ialso like the way you were
almost talking about cultivatingyour own kind of community, if
you like, or people that you canconnect with and making sure
that you've got those supportivevoices with you.
Thomas Smithson (18:04):
Yeah.
And I think, you Where would webe without it as well?
Cause if you think about ourtraining, we're in a massive
group of people.
And then suddenly you're off.
And even if you get a job in anagency, you're just by yourself
as well.
So it's I wish the tutors hadsaid, keep this, a bit more
seriously than they might'vedone.
Dr Peter Blundell (18:21):
Yeah.
There's a lot of, I know a lotof students a bit might not be
on social media and as they'requalifying a little bit
apprehensive.
And I can understand thatbecause maybe you're still
finding your feet as atherapist.
But I think once you have anidentity of who you are as a
therapist, I think there's loadsof opportunities to connect with
other people who are fromsimilar backgrounds.
And if you're in privatepractice, it can be very lonely.
(18:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
On your own.
Thomas Smithson (18:43):
Especially now it's online as well.
When I worked in, I had anoffice in Croydon, I'd still,
there'd be people in otheroffices, so I'd still have a
chat.
Whereas when, if you're solelyworking online, which most of my
work is, there's no one.
And, I live with my partner, butJesus, we spend all of our time
together.
We don't want No more
Dr Peter Blundell (19:01):
need other people.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Thomas Smithson (19:03):
There's enough of you.
Where's where's everyone else?
Dr Peter Blundell (19:06):
No, I get that.
Yeah.
What do you think is the biggestchallenge that the counseling
and psychotherapy professionsface right now?
Thomas Smithson (19:14):
I think modernizing is the, it's a, it
is a huge one for me.
I'd say this a bit selfishly,but I had a, an article that I
did with BSP aboutself-disclosing going on
adoption leave at some point.
And.
the guidance, there was hardlyany guidance for the specifics
of adoption and being a gay man.
And every time I asked people,including the BACP, what should
(19:35):
I do?
They were quite unsure for lackof better words.
So I think modernizing in termsof working with the wider
intersectionality of therapistsbecause even though the
diversity within therapy astherapists still isn't huge, I
think it isn't like from what Isee at least, and maybe I've
just got blinkers on, but fromwhat I see more people accessing
(19:55):
it.
So catching up to that, catchingup to like laws.
I won't go into a rant aboutcertain organizations, actually
catching up to protect everyclient, not the clients that a,
wider does society thinksdeserves more than others?
Does that make sense?
Dr Peter Blundell (20:13):
Yeah, it does make sense.
I've not heard it phrased likethat modernizing the profession,
but it's understanding that lifethrough that intersectional
lens, but also making sure thatthere's the advice and the
guidance available fortherapists.
I was also thinking about thatdifficulty in terms of like when
you're training, like makingsure that the.
training organizations are up todate with the current kind of
(20:35):
research and education, but alsothen when you're in private
practice, like making sure thatyou keep up to date with it as
well which is like a personalresponsibility.
And then obviously themembership body's responsibility
as well.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
So I've come to the end of ourquestions which is, that's just
absolutely flown by.
I suppose my last question justwould be what are your future
(20:56):
plans that you'd like to tell usabout?
I know you've got the book butis there anything else that
you've got going on?
Thomas Smithson (21:00):
My Instagram and I have a newsletter where I
do some random writing stuff.
But my main focus of my book,I'm going to take off a bit of
time from everything in a fewmonths hopefully.
But yeah, the book is the pushbecause I think no one ever
tells you, it's like the fantasyof a book is fantastic, but when
it comes down to actuallywriting it, I joked with my
friend who's also writing a bookI've probably spent more money
(21:21):
than I'll ever make on thisbook.
And I'm not making it for moneyanyway, when it's actually the
amount of time I've taken off,the amount of coffee and pastry
I've paid for, we're well in thered now anyway, but I've got it.
I've got a deal.
So I'm just cracking on.
So yeah, just the book andconcentrating on family as well.
Dr Peter Blundell (21:35):
I think.
That's lovely.
I heard Sheila Haugh say thatshe hates writing, but she loves
the outcome.
Thomas Smithson (21:41):
That's right.
Yes.
Yeah.
Dr Peter Blundell (21:43):
You're not quite there yet, but hopefully
if we're ready soon we will putall your social media details in
the show notes, but I don't knowif you want to say your
Instagram account, people whowant to find you.
Thomas Smithson (21:53):
Yeah, thanks.
My Instagram's@newh counseling.
And yeah, that's it.
I'm just on Instagram.
That's brilliant.
Everything else is too busy.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:01):
Tom, it's been wonderful chatting to you.
Thomas Smithson (22:03):
Thank you so much.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:04):
Good luck with the book when it comes out.
Thomas Smithson (22:06):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:07):
Take care.
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