September 4, 2024 • 32 mins
In this episode titled "Principles and Values," Dr Peter Blundell and Caz Binstead, co-leads of #TherapistsConnect, discuss the facilitation of their online therapist community. They delve into the importance of creating safer spaces for therapists online, emphasizing anti-oppressive practices essential for fostering an inclusive and supportive environment. The conversation explores the core values that underpin these safer spaces, such as respect, confidentiality, and empathy. Additionally, they address the risks and challenges associated with developing a public community, particularly concerning the vulnerability of sharing personal aspects online. This episode provides valuable insights into building a robust, ethical, and safe online community for therapists.
Unfortunately, we experienced minor coverage issues during this recording, leading to some lost material. This included Peter and Caz referencing their work towards two papers about #TherapistsConnect in general, and, our student community, #TraineeTalk. This was in the context of a discussion about the importance of documenting the hard work undertaken by our platform over the last few years.
The book referred to in the podcast is The Handbook of Social Justice in Psychological Therapies: Power, Politics, Change (Winter & Charura, 2023).
To find out more about the work of #TherapistsConnect search for us on the usual social media platforms, or have a look at our website - www.Therapists-Connect.com
You can find out more about Peter's work via his website.
You can find out more about Caz’s work on their professional website.
#TherapistsConnect is a platform for connecting therapists.
Website: www.Therapists-Connect.com
Twitter: @Therapists_C
Instagram: @TherapistsConnect
Facebook: @TherConnect
Origins of #TherapistsConnect
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Peter Blundell (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of
(00:01):
the Therapist Connect podcast.
This episode was recorded at thebeginning of August 2024.
And I just wanted to place thisepisode within the context
within which it was recorded.
So it was recorded after aweekend of far right rallies
happening across the UK incities in England and Northern
Ireland, such as Belfast,Bristol, Manchester, Leeds, and
(00:22):
Liverpool.
And Now many of these far rightrallies turned into riots and
also looting across thosecities, with many riot police
attending those rallies andtrying to manage the situation.
There were a lot of buildingsdestroyed, a lot of arrests over
the weekend, including a lot ofpeople being hurt and injured.
As well as the far right ralliesthemselves, there were many
(00:43):
counter protests who were takingan anti racist and anti far
right stance.
They were looking to challengesome of the racist and extremist
views that were being spread atthose far right rallies,
including a lot ofdisinformation that was being
shared via social media.
Although our episode was aprearranged discussion, we
weren't obviously expecting theevents of the preceding weekend.
(01:06):
But we wanted to do an episodeon the values of the Therapist
Connect platform and also ourexperience facilitating this
community over the last fouryears.
So hopefully you'll be able tosee how some of what has
happened in the wider communityin the UK actually interlinks to
some of the things that wewanted to talk about.
If you enjoyed this episode thenleave us a review on your
(01:26):
favourite podcast platform orshare the link of this episode
with your friends, colleaguesand peers as it really helps to
get the podcast noticed.
Thank you for being part of theTherapist Connect community for
the last four years and we hopethat you enjoy this episode.
Hello everybody and welcome toanother episode of the Therapist
Connect podcast.
(01:47):
my name is Peter Blundell and Iam here with the Therapist
Connect co lead Caz Binsted.
Caz, hello.
Caz Binstead (01:54):
Hello to the podcast listeners.
Dr Peter Blundell (01:56):
One of the things that we were hoping and
doing was, I think it was yoursuggestion, Caz, was talking
about maybe some of thetherapist connect values and
principles that have rebuilt upover the years, and how they
have developed, and where we'reboth at now in terms of
developing the community andsupporting the community, and
given, which we'll talk about ina moment, when we're recording
(02:18):
this episode and what'shappening in the national
consciousness right now, itseems like quite a pertinent
time to have that discussion.
Caz Binstead (02:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
it is very interesting that weplanned to do this and, we're
coming off the back, it'sMonday, what's the date?
Monday the 5th of August we'rerecording this.
So we're literally just off theback of, the weekend of national
riots, by, right wing, we callthem thugs.
I would call them thugs.
(02:46):
but, I guess one of the things Italk about, quite a lot on
social media and, stuff likethat is, bigotry is a very wide
thing.
so although what we've beenseeing this weekend, has been, a
lot of, awful violence.
actually it's not just thatsmall isolated thing.
It comes from, it's much widerwhere it comes from.
(03:09):
I suppose, it just to say it'sbeen heartbreaking watching, the
different photos and picturesfrom across the country.
Peter, I know you're inLiverpool, so I'm sure you can
talk a little bit about that.
I'm in London I did have, alittle unpleasant experience,
the weekend before, where Iexperienced my own dose of, this
kind of thing, personally, whenI was in a pub in London, having
(03:33):
come off the back Of a marchthat I was involved in, so yeah,
I'm really feeling that, but Isuppose also, I'm interested in
what you and I have seenbubbling under the surface
being, avid Twitter users.
Dr Peter Blundell (03:48):
Yeah, absolutely, and we're going to
talk about some of that Isuppose being here in Liverpool,
seeing some of the violencethat's happened at the weekend
and knowing people who have beenfrightened to go out of their
homes, because of what'shappening on the streets in
Liverpool, I was glad to seethat there, as well as the far
right rallies, there was alsothe counter protests and anti
racist protesters who werestanding up to that.
(04:10):
And, it's good to see Liverpool.
I know that happened in lots ofother cities as well.
but actually the city centerhappened to be closed down and
shops closing, because peopledidn't feel safe, leaving the
city or going into the citycenter.
So it's, yeah it's at theforefront of my mind at the
moment as we go into this.
into this discussion and I thinkalso what you're saying there
Caz is the wider impact of someof these views, that are out
(04:33):
there, these far right wingviews, but actually we can see
them manifested in lots ofdifferent ways, not just out in
these riots and on the streets,but also coming through on
social media as people becomemore emboldened, to express some
of this bigotry.
Caz Binstead (04:50):
yeah, definitely.
And I think it's, really hard,To know how to stand up against
this stuff at the moment.
I think it is important to standup against it.
it's the way that, fascism, hasalways been defeated.
And yet, like you said, it'sbeen great that counter protests
have been going on, but it'salso been incredibly unsafe for
(05:11):
people, who've even been inthose protests.
it's important that people cankeep themselves safe while
standing up, which is, somethingthat we have experienced
ourselves within the TherapistConnect community.
we do have one of our corevalues is, relational activism
and compassionate activism, Andwe've always talked a lot about
(05:35):
the importance of seeing people,accepting people, accepting
difference and all of that kindof thing.
human beings are human beings,and yet as a community, we've
seen that line between how doyou keep yourself safe and how
do you stand up for things.
Dr Peter Blundell (05:56):
one of the things, I don't think it's been
directed at us necessarily, butI've seen some criticisms of,
the kindness, compassionate,principles from some people on
social media who say thatactually, when you're facing
racist views, or when you'refacing transphobic views, that
you shouldn't necessarily bekind and compassionate, to those
people.
(06:16):
And I suppose the way I see thatkindness and compassionate
principle is that, actually, Itis when people are upset and
angry about experiencing racismand transphobia or any other
oppression and trying to talkabout the hurt that has
happened, that's when peopleneed to bring in their kindness
and their compassion, yeah, tobe able to actually hear what
(06:38):
those people are saying and notdismiss or be defensive or,
minimize what it is that peopleare trying to, share is
happening to them or otherpeople.
Caz Binstead (06:48):
Yeah, there's different ways of doing
activism, right?
and there's different ways ofstanding up against things.
But, I suppose it's a point thatyou and I have always agreed on.
the importance of relationships.
And also, in a climate likethis, the more anger there is,
the worst that's going to get.
Of course, there's so manydifferent ways we can talk about
(07:09):
activism, but, You can write asocial media post and that can
be an effective, way of, reallygetting your views out.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:18):
And I suppose there's activism, which is
actively being out there, butthen there's also activism in
terms of supporting others whoare out there.
one of the things I wasreflecting on when, we were
coming on here, I was thinkingabout all the different podcast
guests that we've had on overthe last four years and, how,
some people have beenapprehensive about becoming on
(07:40):
the podcast and sharing aspectsof their experience, but also
some people have, not felt safeenough to come on the podcast
and share some of theirexperiences and not felt safe
enough to share theirexperiences within the therapy
community.
And that also scares me a littlebit, feeling afraid of the
therapy community and howthey're going to react and
(08:01):
respond, to someone sharingaspects of their lived
experience.
And that's based on theirprevious experiences of sharing
things.
Caz Binstead (08:07):
Maybe we can talk a little bit about therapist
community itself, and our own.
journey, if you like, asTherapists Connect, and then
also we can talk about Twitterin between that because, they go
hand in hand, but just on,Therapist Connect itself, Peter,
you, before we came on, I don'tknow if you can remember what
you said to me, but you saidsomething.
(08:27):
Do you want to have a go?
It just felt so, pertinent andso powerful in terms of our own
experience.
Dr Peter Blundell (08:33):
I'm not sure I can remember it.
Caz said, remember that.
And I thought, yeah, I will.
And now it's completely gone outof my mind.
I think what I was trying totalk about was the layers, of
how things have affected us interms of, as we started as
Therapists Connected, that's it.
We tried to be as inclusive aswe possibly could.
as many therapists as wepossibly could so that each
(08:56):
person's views could beexpressed.
And I think what's happened overthe last four years is that it's
tested our limits, I think, interms of trying to, include
everybody.
And we really start to thinkabout what views are we
including?
What is our page about?
What, values are we sharing onour page?
And I think, I think we canadmit it in the past.
(09:18):
Sometimes maybe we, have, I'mnot saying encouraged, but we
shared things that maybe wereflect on afterwards, that
actually maybe that wasn't thebest thing to share.
Maybe that didn't upheld ourvalues actually, as much as we
see them now.
And now I think we're more alongthe lines of how safe is our
platform for other people?
Where's the starting point ofthe conversation?
(09:40):
It's not.
Just that we have an openconversation.
There must be a starting pointand I think both of us believe
in anti-oppressive practice anddeveloping safer spaces.
And so I think that's whatwe've, tried to do over time..
Caz Binstead (09:54):
I think it's really interesting that question
of how you include.
people, what inclusion actuallymeans.
Therapist Connect, by the way,started in the pandemic year
2020.
So that sense of includingEverybody because people didn't
have their usual kind ofnetworking, groups or ways of
(10:17):
being, with other therapist.
So it's very important actually,to have a place for therapists
to come and, chat and betogether and connect, but I
think that, yeah, as time hasgone on.
There's been something about howdo we do inclusion in a way that
is really properly aboutinclusivity.
(10:40):
And respecting all human beings,and that's sounds so simple, but
it's not simple.
and of course, we developed, youpeople may have heard us talking
about our safer spaces, work,and we do have, it's a big part
of Therapists Connect, that wehave this kind of safer spaces,
initiative.
(11:00):
because we've had to think a lotabout this and we've come up
against roadblocks and wonderingbecause we have a lot of people
and people are going to haveseen this if you're on Twitter.
We want to include everyone andwant everyone to respect
everyone else.
sometimes it might be that Otherpeople are not being seen and
(11:25):
other people are not beingrespected.
in that sense, what justice dowe do in terms of anti
oppressive practice?
If we allow absolutelyeverything, It could actually
become a very, and I know safetymeans different things to
different people, but it couldactually become a very unsafe
space.
for people, including our ownteam.
Dr Peter Blundell (11:49):
And I think there's something for me around,
at the start, I think we wereencouraging debate and
discussion.
And that, and we would encouragethat now, but I think when it
moves into a space where peopleare discussing other people's
identities, or, aspects ofpractice, which could be
(12:10):
harmful.
And we're having thosediscussions and people haven't
maybe fully processed orunderstood their own position,
their own intersectionality,their own privilege.
Say, for example, thosediscussions then become harmful
to other people.
And I'm also not sure nowwhether, should they be public
(12:31):
discussions?
If you've got something to workthrough, and something to
reflect on, yeah, maybe you dowant to talk to other therapists
about that and work throughsomething.
That should be in a privatespace rather than in a public
one.
Caz Binstead (12:44):
Yeah, because multi layers to, the arena that
we operate in, which is socialmedia.
because exactly everything thatyou're saying there, and then
you've got the added thing ofwhat social media does to
people.
And, I experienced this attimes, you have a bad day,
you're feeling a bit stressed,bang something out on social
(13:04):
media that in another, onanother day, you probably
wouldn't have done and I thinkthat we see this is the thing
with Twitter it can become aspace where almost like anything
can be said.
And if you weren't on there, Youmight not actually be saying
those things to people, so Ithink it's very easy for folk to
lose themselves and, that'ssomething that we have to also
(13:27):
consider as a platform.
Dr Peter Blundell (13:29):
I think there's also something
interesting around and I've seendiscussions about this and maybe
it's interesting.
different between I'm going togeneralize a little bit, but
maybe like the Americantherapist versus the UK
therapist.
There could be lots of differentreasons for that.
But whether as a therapist, weshould behave differently online
versus Your average member ofthe public.
(13:51):
Now my belief would be I dothink we need to behave
differently online.
Like I think we need to bemindful about the values and the
ethics that we, are advocatingfor and that we're bringing.
I have seen other therapists sayI'm just a human being.
This is how I work.
I'll just express whatever I'mthinking and feeling.
and, I've seen some.
(14:11):
We've probably both seen somehorrible situations where,
therapists have been, bringingpeople down who are clearly
going through something quitedifficult at that moment in
time, and where's the empathyand the compassion for the
people that you're trying toengage with, whether you are
morally or intellectually righton the point that you're making.
It's also about how you'reengaging with somebody, which I
(14:33):
think is really important as atherapist.
Caz Binstead (14:35):
yeah, there's so much to think about in terms of
ethics and the use of socialmedia and we're only just really
scratching the surface, but itis something that I guess you
need to be thinking about.
How you use your social mediaaccounts and Peter and I, we use
our social media accountsdifferently.
we've had many conversationsover the years and I think that
(14:56):
in terms of self disclosure orboundaries or whatever, we may
have slightly differing viewson, what Peter might choose to
put out, what I might choose toput out.
But what we do have in common isthat we've both thought a lot
about that.
think about, what that means forus individually, what it means
in terms of our way of practiceand our modality.
(15:19):
this is really important.
I agree with what you say.
We cannot escape the fact thatwe are therapists.
Now, I have a bit of a bugbearabout the straitjacket that I
feel like I've been wearing forso many years.
I've been really feeling thisyear, this sense of getting rid
of my shackles, if you like.
I do feel like there can be abig kind of heaviness sometimes
(15:40):
in terms of, that you areallowed to do this, you're not
allowed to do that.
And even in discussions about,thinking about your own
privilege and all the antioppressive, discussions that we
have, which are so important,even that, sometimes it's such a
lot to think about.
and you're always thinking aboutthese things.
but then that in itself, itfeels too much, but the truth is
(16:02):
we are therapists and we areputting ourselves out there and
we are representing ourprofession and also, clients can
find us, current clients, butalso remember, if you're in
private practice, clients willbe looking for therapists and
they may well send you an email,but they might also look at your
social media as well.
so there's something else aboutthat.
So yeah, that balance between.
(16:24):
being able to be free as a humanbeing, and also, the fact that
you are a therapist, it requiresquite a lot of thought actually.
Dr Peter Blundell (16:33):
Yeah, it does.
And I suppose there's also, Ithink there's something also
important about thinking aboutthe spaces where you talk about
that and making sure that you'vegot support around that, it's
probably something that could bediscussed in supervision,
around, What you put out there,because it's possibly how it
impacts on the therapy that youmight have with clients if they
see it, but also the impact onyou as a therapist by being out
(16:56):
there and the things that youpost.
And there's so many differentways that things can be
interpreted.
it's difficult to think throughall of the, nuances of that.
both of us have had that wherewe posted something and
someone's gone, but hold on,what about this or that language
that you've used or how aboutthis?
And as soon as someone pointsout, you think, Oh my goodness,
why didn't I see that before Iposted it?
(17:18):
Maybe apologize or amend it oredit it or take it down or
whatever.
But it's quite difficult tothink through absolutely
everything before you're puttingsomething out there.
Caz Binstead (17:27):
Yeah.
And I feel like then talkingabout us as Therapist Connect co
leads, this is another, role, ifyou like.
I'm really pleased we're at themoment where we're on a break.
We've, we're recording apodcast.
We're on a break, in every othersense of the word in the, our
accounts are closed at themoment.
and we're giving ourselves amonth off, this summer, which,
(17:48):
I'm really pleased about.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:50):
the first time we've done that as well,
had a whole month not working inthe last four years.
Caz Binstead (17:54):
yeah, we've taken, we used to not take any breaks
and then we began to put it in.
And credit to Helen, who is amember of our team, who has
helped me and Peterparticularly, a lot.
I love what we've done as aplatform.
I love being in community.
People will know that I lovebeing in community.
I love chatting with people andI like being with, practicing
(18:16):
therapists, but I also like thefact that we've been able to,
ourselves come from differentworlds as well.
And, really try and make inthis, spirit of inclusivity,
really try and make therapistsconnect to platform where, in
addition to whoever you are, butwhatever you do in the therapy
world, you can have a place.
but yeah, I'm very aware of, ourown identities, and our own
(18:39):
lives, and the importance andour own time, let's not beat
around the bush.
we've put a hell of a lot offree time into, this community,
which, we've chosen to do.
and like I say, it's been great,but also, there will be limits
to what we can do as people.
And I really want to say thiswhile I'm on this podcast.
(19:03):
There are sometimes limits towhat me and Peter can handle as
people.
Because sometimes I feel there'sgoing to be things going on,
even in the therapy world,discussions about certain kinds
of things.
And, we're not just machines.
There will be things that havean effect on us.
And it might be because of ourown identities or how we feel
(19:26):
about things or experiences thatwe've had.
It might be because ofexperiences in our families.
So yeah, I just really wanted tosay that.
Dr Peter Blundell (19:37):
Yeah, Caz, thanks for saying that.
I think, maybe it just showswhat different places we're at
where we feel like we may beable to say that.
Versus in the past where maybewe have just felt like, we just
need to get on with it and nottalk about it.
And I think not as much now,although it still does happen
(19:58):
and maybe that's also becausewe're taking better care of
ourselves in terms of how muchwe put into the work.
But I know there has beenoccasions where we felt like
there's been moments on socialmedia where we felt like we've
been.
That's tip over the edge, interms of, managing our own
process and, engagement withsocial media and how much we're
(20:18):
giving to the platform.
and I think, I hope peopleunderstand that if we haven't
got back to them about somethingor if we've gone quiet on
something we might be goingthrough something at that
particular time and we're doingour best, but, yeah, it's tough
sometimes.
Caz Binstead (20:36):
yeah, that's a nice way to put it, we're doing
our best.
As all human beings, and allcommunity members feel this, all
we can do is do our best.
Dr Peter Blundell (20:45):
And I think it's also to acknowledge that we
don't mean we're not open tocritique and feedback and all of
that kind of stuff.
which we always are.
Caz Binstead (20:52):
I wanted to pick up on something we discussed in
the last podcast, the last timewe chatted together on here,
which was about where, socialmedia, where we're going in
terms of therapists using socialmedia, because we were
reflecting, I think last timeon, how it just wasn't really
clear.
and I think we were saying, thatit, one thing was obvious last,
(21:15):
so this was February last yearyou said we did it, yeah.
Yeah.
February last year, 2023, wasthat people were perhaps moving
platforms.
and certainly one thing I'dnoticed was more therapists
moving over to Instagram.
what are your thoughts whatyou're seeing at the moment?
Dr Peter Blundell (21:32):
I think I've seen more therapists using
LinkedIn, actually, rather thanInstagram.
What I found interesting aboutthat is at one point I felt like
people were coming off socialmedia.
It felt like where have theygone?
And then all of a sudden it feltoh no, actually people are
about, but they're not all onthe same platform.
(21:53):
Maybe I'm not connected toeverybody on LinkedIn who I am
connected to on Twitter, say forexample, or the same via
Instagram.
So I'm seeing people in lots ofdifferent spaces.
but LinkedIn seems to be one,when more discussions are
happening, but I think that'smaybe a bit more of a natural
function of LinkedIn, whereasInstagram's a little bit more
about the posts and the videosand the, and there isn't as much
(22:15):
discussion.
I don't think that happens inthat space.
Caz Binstead (22:18):
Yeah.
I was blown away with thisLinkedIn rise.
so one of my, one, I had one ofmy friends say it to me, she was
like, Oh, I'm done with Twitter.
I'm over on LinkedIn.
And I was like, really?
and then I had, more and more ofmy friends saying to me, Oh,
LinkedIn's the place to be.
And I was like, Okay, nowPeter's gonna have heard this so
(22:41):
much from me.
I'm a bit averse to anythingthat I see as corporate.
so this is just the artistic,creative nature of me.
So I was like, I'm not, I'mreally not sure about LinkedIn.
I'm not sure about this, but Imust say, I joined, you've been
over there for a while.
I know, but I did join thisyear.
And, yeah, I'm getting into theswing of things and it doesn't
(23:02):
actually feel that corporate tome because it feels like you
say, that actually betweentherapists, there's just
conversation based.
things going on.
Dr Peter Blundell (23:11):
I was going to say you've got lots of
therapists on there, so it'sprobably not going to feel very
corporate.
Caz Binstead (23:16):
Some people might be,
Dr Peter Blundell (23:17):
that is true, yeah, that was a bit of a
sweeping generalization.
I think there's so manydifferent platforms now, there's
kind of Blue Sky, there'sTikTok, there's so many
different, platforms and I thinkit's interesting to me as
therapists.
Do we need to have something onevery single platform?
people are taught if oneplatform goes down or disappears
(23:37):
or gets taken over by Elon Musk,then, do we want a different
platform?
And if you've only fostered agroup of people on one platform,
it then makes it Difficult totransfer over, or it can make it
more difficult to transfer over.
And I should mention threads inthis somewhere as well,
Caz Binstead (23:52):
it's just reminding me of when we actually
thought Twitter was going down.
Do you remember?
I don't know if people wereaware.
Everyone on Twitter was aware ofthis, but I can't even remember
when it was, but it must've beenwhen Elon Musk was first.
buying it, or was he gonna buyit, or was it all gonna fall
through, something like that.
But we all thought Twitter wasgoing.
(24:12):
and it was quite a kind of, ohmy god what's gonna happen if
this space goes?
And I think for us I was gonnasay we feel at home on Twitter,
but I'm not sure that's theright way to put it really, but,
we did both meet on Twitter and,we've been on Twitter for years
we both still have pretty bigfollowings.
I do feel like people are stillskulking around we, we've known
(24:35):
this about our community inparticular that there's some
people are very, in it, and somepeople are more on the
outskirts, and people wouldevery now and again I always
say, something I love when weget to the birthday and people
who, Sometimes I wouldn't evenknow who people were and they'd
send me a message saying thankyou for the community and there
was, I just love that.
I love that because, ourcommunity is not just there for
(24:58):
people who use our hashtag orwho are involved in the
discussions.
Dr Peter Blundell (25:02):
I think there was a lot of different
communities that were bereftwhen Twitter or X was changing
and it feels to me like thealgorithm has changed.
So there's lots ofadvertisements, maybe people
commenting who aren't reallypart of the therapy community is
seeing the posts and so it's abit difficult.
I think people were worriedthat.
communities they'd spent manyyears cultivating were was going
(25:24):
to be gone.
So I think that's why peoplemight be reluctant to leave
Twitter.
but also, I've got people onLinkedIn who come to me and we
have a chat and then they're Oh,what's going on over there
because I'm just not part of it.
whereas I think before whateverwas going on Twitter, people
knew about, yeah, there seemedto be discussions and stuff like
that, but there's so many peoplewho aren't there now.
that I think that's changedquite a bit.
(25:45):
I know this is where I think Cazand I might be slightly
different at the moment is, so Ithink you still post quite
regularly.
So you still have an activeengagement.
Nice, it's not that I don't postat all.
I'm a bit more back, not offsocial media because I'm still
there looking, but I supposesome of the stuff I'm trying to
do is create like this longerform content around like
podcasts or articles or blogs orwhatever.
(26:08):
which I know you're also doingwith other stuff, but I think
you do that and post as well.
whereas I felt like sometimesposting individual stuff, it
would get lost in the ether.
So you'd have an interactionover that day and then it'd be
gone then, it's in the historyof your timeline somewhere.
Yeah.
Whereas like the podcasts or thewriting or whatever is something
that can stay there forever.
And maybe personally I mightpost more of that stuff now, and
(26:32):
less of the discussion stuff.
Which I still find interestingand I still will engage with
that, but just not as much as Iwas doing beforehand.
Caz Binstead (26:39):
Yeah, it's such a good point though.
I think, community work is onething.
And community is all about beingable to have these discussions
and, just for the sake of havingthe discussions and giving
people a voice who might nototherwise have one.
And I think that one of thepowerful things about the
Therapist Connect hashtag hasbeen that people can use that
(27:01):
hashtag and can feel like theycan have a say if they feel,
Somewhat bottom of the rung interms of our profession.
and we do have a very,hierarchical profession.
I think that the social mediaspace has been important over
the past years in terms of,people having, more of a voice,
Dr Peter Blundell (27:23):
And maybe levelling that hierarchy a
little bit as well.
Caz Binstead (27:26):
yes, exactly.
Now, this is the but, because,absolutely, levelling that
hierarchy, but in what you weresaying there in terms of
longevity and things Put in, putin stone, I have a little remark
or that I guess something I'venoticed, which is around, how
(27:49):
nothing's protected in socialmedia.
You can write a tweet, you canwrite a post, you can even do a
podcast and I know that withreferencing these days, you can
pretty much reference, andreference fairly, but, and of
course Peter's going to know it.
Being an academic, Peter knowsso much more about this than I
do, even though I am a writer aswell.
But, if you have an idea or ifyou've done something, actually,
(28:11):
and this is aside from communitywork, but maybe this is about
individual stuff where you cansay, Oh, actually, I did that,
or I talked about that, this issomething I've tried to really
think about myself because I'mso for community and, working
together, collaboration, I'm allfor that.
(28:32):
But, I think for me, sometimes Idon't give myself enough You
were one of the first people todo that.
Or you and Peter were one of thefirst people to do that.
I had discussions with ProfessorLynne Gabriel and, John Wilson
from, online events obviouslyonline events has been community
based, they've been aroundlonger than Therapist Connect,
but it felt like they were verymuch there with us when we were
(28:54):
in the pandemic and I waschatting with them and they were
both saying Therapist Connectwas doing a lot of the stuff
that other communities and otherpeople are writing about and
doing now.
Therapist Connect was actuallydoing that, first, in terms of
hierarchy and power, so givingpeople a voice, does bring
people up and help to addressthat, but on the other level, if
(29:17):
some of the people with the mostpower in this profession are
then jumping things that havebeen said by, say, a lay, a
private tweet or whatever has areally great idea, and someone
else with power picks it up andruns with it.
That then does the opposite.
So we always feel and maybe thisis something for us to think
about.
(29:38):
As a community and depending onour time and stuff like that,
but yeah, how much, as a realcommunity based platform, we can
even, model something in termsof, the protection and the
respect, around, Yeah.
Ideas that people have orwhatever.
Does that make sense what I'msaying?
Dr Peter Blundell (29:57):
It does make sense.
I don't know why this image iscoming to my mind, but I was
thinking about, cause I'vealways thought this, that
Twitter has been a bed of ideas,just lots of people's opinions
and ideas and thoughts andreflections.
I just had an image of a vacuumcleaner.
So as if someone was just comingalong to that and going, just
sucking it all up and going,yep, thanks very much.
(30:20):
That's fantastic.
I'll take all of that for me.
but not actually giving creditto the people who came up with
it in the first place.
And sometimes that might beunintentional as in.
Oh, you've read the idea andthen you've forgotten who came
up with it or you even believethat you came up with it
yourself, but actually it wassomething that you read
somewhere.
And also the intentional where,people have been working in this
(30:41):
area for a long time, yet you'retaking the learning from them
and portraying it as your ownidea.
so I feel like we're coming.
To the end now of ourdiscussion, we didn't script any
of it.
We just said we were going tosee how it went.
one of the things we did agreeupon is that we were just going
to share this quote, from.
(31:03):
the Handbook of Social Justicein Psychological Therapies,
Power, Politics and Change,which is, edited by Laura Ann
Winter and Divine Charura.
it's the very last, paragraph ofthe book, written by Laura and
Divine, and we just thought thiskind of represented some of the
things that we wanted to talkabout today.
social justice action can, andoften does, come with risks for
(31:27):
the individual or individuals orcommunity groups who engage in
action and activism.
This is particularly the casewhere the individual is
minoritized or marginalizedthemselves and advocating or
engaging in social justice workconnected to their marginalized
identities.
Historically, we know there aremany examples in which activists
(31:49):
were murdered or sufferedpolitical violence and
silencing.
There are costs to engaging inthis work and these should not
be ignored.
We need to acknowledge thesecosts and take care of ourselves
and of one another as weprogress in trying to change
things for the better.
And then the final line is wehope that the ideas contained
(32:11):
within this book help ourprofessions to do just that.
I suppose what we're hoping foris that some of the thoughts and
reflections that we've had inthis podcast and some of the
other guests of the podcast andthe community, are moving a dial
towards that as well.
Yeah, I'll mention all that.
Thank you, Laura and Devine aswell.
(32:32):
so thank you everyone forlistening to, this podcast
episode.
we'll be back next month talkingto more therapists about their
life and work.
Thank you very much.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of
(00:01):
the Therapist Connect podcast.
This episode was recorded at thebeginning of August 2024.
And I just wanted to place thisepisode within the context
within which it was recorded.
So it was recorded after aweekend of far right rallies
happening across the UK incities in England and Northern
Ireland, such as Belfast,Bristol, Manchester, Leeds, and
(00:22):
Liverpool.
And Now many of these far rightrallies turned into riots and
also looting across thosecities, with many riot police
attending those rallies andtrying to manage the situation.
There were a lot of buildingsdestroyed, a lot of arrests over
the weekend, including a lot ofpeople being hurt and injured.
As well as the far right ralliesthemselves, there were many
(00:43):
counter protests who were takingan anti racist and anti far
right stance.
They were looking to challengesome of the racist and extremist
views that were being spread atthose far right rallies,
including a lot ofdisinformation that was being
shared via social media.
Although our episode was aprearranged discussion, we
weren't obviously expecting theevents of the preceding weekend.
(01:06):
But we wanted to do an episodeon the values of the Therapist
Connect platform and also ourexperience facilitating this
community over the last fouryears.
So hopefully you'll be able tosee how some of what has
happened in the wider communityin the UK actually interlinks to
some of the things that wewanted to talk about.
If you enjoyed this episode thenleave us a review on your
(01:26):
favourite podcast platform orshare the link of this episode
with your friends, colleaguesand peers as it really helps to
get the podcast noticed.
Thank you for being part of theTherapist Connect community for
the last four years and we hopethat you enjoy this episode.
Hello everybody and welcome toanother episode of the Therapist
Connect podcast.
(01:47):
my name is Peter Blundell and Iam here with the Therapist
Connect co lead Caz Binsted.
Caz, hello.
Caz Binstead (01:54):
Hello to the podcast listeners.
Dr Peter Blundell (01:56):
One of the things that we were hoping and
doing was, I think it was yoursuggestion, Caz, was talking
about maybe some of thetherapist connect values and
principles that have rebuilt upover the years, and how they
have developed, and where we'reboth at now in terms of
developing the community andsupporting the community, and
given, which we'll talk about ina moment, when we're recording
(02:18):
this episode and what'shappening in the national
consciousness right now, itseems like quite a pertinent
time to have that discussion.
Caz Binstead (02:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
it is very interesting that weplanned to do this and, we're
coming off the back, it'sMonday, what's the date?
Monday the 5th of August we'rerecording this.
So we're literally just off theback of, the weekend of national
riots, by, right wing, we callthem thugs.
I would call them thugs.
(02:46):
but, I guess one of the things Italk about, quite a lot on
social media and, stuff likethat is, bigotry is a very wide
thing.
so although what we've beenseeing this weekend, has been, a
lot of, awful violence.
actually it's not just thatsmall isolated thing.
It comes from, it's much widerwhere it comes from.
(03:09):
I suppose, it just to say it'sbeen heartbreaking watching, the
different photos and picturesfrom across the country.
Peter, I know you're inLiverpool, so I'm sure you can
talk a little bit about that.
I'm in London I did have, alittle unpleasant experience,
the weekend before, where Iexperienced my own dose of, this
kind of thing, personally, whenI was in a pub in London, having
(03:33):
come off the back Of a marchthat I was involved in, so yeah,
I'm really feeling that, but Isuppose also, I'm interested in
what you and I have seenbubbling under the surface
being, avid Twitter users.
Dr Peter Blundell (03:48):
Yeah, absolutely, and we're going to
talk about some of that Isuppose being here in Liverpool,
seeing some of the violencethat's happened at the weekend
and knowing people who have beenfrightened to go out of their
homes, because of what'shappening on the streets in
Liverpool, I was glad to seethat there, as well as the far
right rallies, there was alsothe counter protests and anti
racist protesters who werestanding up to that.
(04:10):
And, it's good to see Liverpool.
I know that happened in lots ofother cities as well.
but actually the city centerhappened to be closed down and
shops closing, because peopledidn't feel safe, leaving the
city or going into the citycenter.
So it's, yeah it's at theforefront of my mind at the
moment as we go into this.
into this discussion and I thinkalso what you're saying there
Caz is the wider impact of someof these views, that are out
(04:33):
there, these far right wingviews, but actually we can see
them manifested in lots ofdifferent ways, not just out in
these riots and on the streets,but also coming through on
social media as people becomemore emboldened, to express some
of this bigotry.
Caz Binstead (04:50):
yeah, definitely.
And I think it's, really hard,To know how to stand up against
this stuff at the moment.
I think it is important to standup against it.
it's the way that, fascism, hasalways been defeated.
And yet, like you said, it'sbeen great that counter protests
have been going on, but it'salso been incredibly unsafe for
(05:11):
people, who've even been inthose protests.
it's important that people cankeep themselves safe while
standing up, which is, somethingthat we have experienced
ourselves within the TherapistConnect community.
we do have one of our corevalues is, relational activism
and compassionate activism, Andwe've always talked a lot about
(05:35):
the importance of seeing people,accepting people, accepting
difference and all of that kindof thing.
human beings are human beings,and yet as a community, we've
seen that line between how doyou keep yourself safe and how
do you stand up for things.
Dr Peter Blundell (05:56):
one of the things, I don't think it's been
directed at us necessarily, butI've seen some criticisms of,
the kindness, compassionate,principles from some people on
social media who say thatactually, when you're facing
racist views, or when you'refacing transphobic views, that
you shouldn't necessarily bekind and compassionate, to those
people.
(06:16):
And I suppose the way I see thatkindness and compassionate
principle is that, actually, Itis when people are upset and
angry about experiencing racismand transphobia or any other
oppression and trying to talkabout the hurt that has
happened, that's when peopleneed to bring in their kindness
and their compassion, yeah, tobe able to actually hear what
(06:38):
those people are saying and notdismiss or be defensive or,
minimize what it is that peopleare trying to, share is
happening to them or otherpeople.
Caz Binstead (06:48):
Yeah, there's different ways of doing
activism, right?
and there's different ways ofstanding up against things.
But, I suppose it's a point thatyou and I have always agreed on.
the importance of relationships.
And also, in a climate likethis, the more anger there is,
the worst that's going to get.
Of course, there's so manydifferent ways we can talk about
(07:09):
activism, but, You can write asocial media post and that can
be an effective, way of, reallygetting your views out.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:18):
And I suppose there's activism, which is
actively being out there, butthen there's also activism in
terms of supporting others whoare out there.
one of the things I wasreflecting on when, we were
coming on here, I was thinkingabout all the different podcast
guests that we've had on overthe last four years and, how,
some people have beenapprehensive about becoming on
(07:40):
the podcast and sharing aspectsof their experience, but also
some people have, not felt safeenough to come on the podcast
and share some of theirexperiences and not felt safe
enough to share theirexperiences within the therapy
community.
And that also scares me a littlebit, feeling afraid of the
therapy community and howthey're going to react and
(08:01):
respond, to someone sharingaspects of their lived
experience.
And that's based on theirprevious experiences of sharing
things.
Caz Binstead (08:07):
Maybe we can talk a little bit about therapist
community itself, and our own.
journey, if you like, asTherapists Connect, and then
also we can talk about Twitterin between that because, they go
hand in hand, but just on,Therapist Connect itself, Peter,
you, before we came on, I don'tknow if you can remember what
you said to me, but you saidsomething.
(08:27):
Do you want to have a go?
It just felt so, pertinent andso powerful in terms of our own
experience.
Dr Peter Blundell (08:33):
I'm not sure I can remember it.
Caz said, remember that.
And I thought, yeah, I will.
And now it's completely gone outof my mind.
I think what I was trying totalk about was the layers, of
how things have affected us interms of, as we started as
Therapists Connected, that's it.
We tried to be as inclusive aswe possibly could.
as many therapists as wepossibly could so that each
(08:56):
person's views could beexpressed.
And I think what's happened overthe last four years is that it's
tested our limits, I think, interms of trying to, include
everybody.
And we really start to thinkabout what views are we
including?
What is our page about?
What, values are we sharing onour page?
And I think, I think we canadmit it in the past.
(09:18):
Sometimes maybe we, have, I'mnot saying encouraged, but we
shared things that maybe wereflect on afterwards, that
actually maybe that wasn't thebest thing to share.
Maybe that didn't upheld ourvalues actually, as much as we
see them now.
And now I think we're more alongthe lines of how safe is our
platform for other people?
Where's the starting point ofthe conversation?
(09:40):
It's not.
Just that we have an openconversation.
There must be a starting pointand I think both of us believe
in anti-oppressive practice anddeveloping safer spaces.
And so I think that's whatwe've, tried to do over time..
Caz Binstead (09:54):
I think it's really interesting that question
of how you include.
people, what inclusion actuallymeans.
Therapist Connect, by the way,started in the pandemic year
2020.
So that sense of includingEverybody because people didn't
have their usual kind ofnetworking, groups or ways of
(10:17):
being, with other therapist.
So it's very important actually,to have a place for therapists
to come and, chat and betogether and connect, but I
think that, yeah, as time hasgone on.
There's been something about howdo we do inclusion in a way that
is really properly aboutinclusivity.
(10:40):
And respecting all human beings,and that's sounds so simple, but
it's not simple.
and of course, we developed, youpeople may have heard us talking
about our safer spaces, work,and we do have, it's a big part
of Therapists Connect, that wehave this kind of safer spaces,
initiative.
(11:00):
because we've had to think a lotabout this and we've come up
against roadblocks and wonderingbecause we have a lot of people
and people are going to haveseen this if you're on Twitter.
We want to include everyone andwant everyone to respect
everyone else.
sometimes it might be that Otherpeople are not being seen and
(11:25):
other people are not beingrespected.
in that sense, what justice dowe do in terms of anti
oppressive practice?
If we allow absolutelyeverything, It could actually
become a very, and I know safetymeans different things to
different people, but it couldactually become a very unsafe
space.
for people, including our ownteam.
Dr Peter Blundell (11:49):
And I think there's something for me around,
at the start, I think we wereencouraging debate and
discussion.
And that, and we would encouragethat now, but I think when it
moves into a space where peopleare discussing other people's
identities, or, aspects ofpractice, which could be
(12:10):
harmful.
And we're having thosediscussions and people haven't
maybe fully processed orunderstood their own position,
their own intersectionality,their own privilege.
Say, for example, thosediscussions then become harmful
to other people.
And I'm also not sure nowwhether, should they be public
(12:31):
discussions?
If you've got something to workthrough, and something to
reflect on, yeah, maybe you dowant to talk to other therapists
about that and work throughsomething.
That should be in a privatespace rather than in a public
one.
Caz Binstead (12:44):
Yeah, because multi layers to, the arena that
we operate in, which is socialmedia.
because exactly everything thatyou're saying there, and then
you've got the added thing ofwhat social media does to
people.
And, I experienced this attimes, you have a bad day,
you're feeling a bit stressed,bang something out on social
(13:04):
media that in another, onanother day, you probably
wouldn't have done and I thinkthat we see this is the thing
with Twitter it can become aspace where almost like anything
can be said.
And if you weren't on there, Youmight not actually be saying
those things to people, so Ithink it's very easy for folk to
lose themselves and, that'ssomething that we have to also
(13:27):
consider as a platform.
Dr Peter Blundell (13:29):
I think there's also something
interesting around and I've seendiscussions about this and maybe
it's interesting.
different between I'm going togeneralize a little bit, but
maybe like the Americantherapist versus the UK
therapist.
There could be lots of differentreasons for that.
But whether as a therapist, weshould behave differently online
versus Your average member ofthe public.
(13:51):
Now my belief would be I dothink we need to behave
differently online.
Like I think we need to bemindful about the values and the
ethics that we, are advocatingfor and that we're bringing.
I have seen other therapists sayI'm just a human being.
This is how I work.
I'll just express whatever I'mthinking and feeling.
and, I've seen some.
(14:11):
We've probably both seen somehorrible situations where,
therapists have been, bringingpeople down who are clearly
going through something quitedifficult at that moment in
time, and where's the empathyand the compassion for the
people that you're trying toengage with, whether you are
morally or intellectually righton the point that you're making.
It's also about how you'reengaging with somebody, which I
(14:33):
think is really important as atherapist.
Caz Binstead (14:35):
yeah, there's so much to think about in terms of
ethics and the use of socialmedia and we're only just really
scratching the surface, but itis something that I guess you
need to be thinking about.
How you use your social mediaaccounts and Peter and I, we use
our social media accountsdifferently.
we've had many conversationsover the years and I think that
(14:56):
in terms of self disclosure orboundaries or whatever, we may
have slightly differing viewson, what Peter might choose to
put out, what I might choose toput out.
But what we do have in common isthat we've both thought a lot
about that.
think about, what that means forus individually, what it means
in terms of our way of practiceand our modality.
(15:19):
this is really important.
I agree with what you say.
We cannot escape the fact thatwe are therapists.
Now, I have a bit of a bugbearabout the straitjacket that I
feel like I've been wearing forso many years.
I've been really feeling thisyear, this sense of getting rid
of my shackles, if you like.
I do feel like there can be abig kind of heaviness sometimes
(15:40):
in terms of, that you areallowed to do this, you're not
allowed to do that.
And even in discussions about,thinking about your own
privilege and all the antioppressive, discussions that we
have, which are so important,even that, sometimes it's such a
lot to think about.
and you're always thinking aboutthese things.
but then that in itself, itfeels too much, but the truth is
(16:02):
we are therapists and we areputting ourselves out there and
we are representing ourprofession and also, clients can
find us, current clients, butalso remember, if you're in
private practice, clients willbe looking for therapists and
they may well send you an email,but they might also look at your
social media as well.
so there's something else aboutthat.
So yeah, that balance between.
(16:24):
being able to be free as a humanbeing, and also, the fact that
you are a therapist, it requiresquite a lot of thought actually.
Dr Peter Blundell (16:33):
Yeah, it does.
And I suppose there's also, Ithink there's something also
important about thinking aboutthe spaces where you talk about
that and making sure that you'vegot support around that, it's
probably something that could bediscussed in supervision,
around, What you put out there,because it's possibly how it
impacts on the therapy that youmight have with clients if they
see it, but also the impact onyou as a therapist by being out
(16:56):
there and the things that youpost.
And there's so many differentways that things can be
interpreted.
it's difficult to think throughall of the, nuances of that.
both of us have had that wherewe posted something and
someone's gone, but hold on,what about this or that language
that you've used or how aboutthis?
And as soon as someone pointsout, you think, Oh my goodness,
why didn't I see that before Iposted it?
(17:18):
Maybe apologize or amend it oredit it or take it down or
whatever.
But it's quite difficult tothink through absolutely
everything before you're puttingsomething out there.
Caz Binstead (17:27):
Yeah.
And I feel like then talkingabout us as Therapist Connect co
leads, this is another, role, ifyou like.
I'm really pleased we're at themoment where we're on a break.
We've, we're recording apodcast.
We're on a break, in every othersense of the word in the, our
accounts are closed at themoment.
and we're giving ourselves amonth off, this summer, which,
(17:48):
I'm really pleased about.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:50):
the first time we've done that as well,
had a whole month not working inthe last four years.
Caz Binstead (17:54):
yeah, we've taken, we used to not take any breaks
and then we began to put it in.
And credit to Helen, who is amember of our team, who has
helped me and Peterparticularly, a lot.
I love what we've done as aplatform.
I love being in community.
People will know that I lovebeing in community.
I love chatting with people andI like being with, practicing
(18:16):
therapists, but I also like thefact that we've been able to,
ourselves come from differentworlds as well.
And, really try and make inthis, spirit of inclusivity,
really try and make therapistsconnect to platform where, in
addition to whoever you are, butwhatever you do in the therapy
world, you can have a place.
but yeah, I'm very aware of, ourown identities, and our own
(18:39):
lives, and the importance andour own time, let's not beat
around the bush.
we've put a hell of a lot offree time into, this community,
which, we've chosen to do.
and like I say, it's been great,but also, there will be limits
to what we can do as people.
And I really want to say thiswhile I'm on this podcast.
(19:03):
There are sometimes limits towhat me and Peter can handle as
people.
Because sometimes I feel there'sgoing to be things going on,
even in the therapy world,discussions about certain kinds
of things.
And, we're not just machines.
There will be things that havean effect on us.
And it might be because of ourown identities or how we feel
(19:26):
about things or experiences thatwe've had.
It might be because ofexperiences in our families.
So yeah, I just really wanted tosay that.
Dr Peter Blundell (19:37):
Yeah, Caz, thanks for saying that.
I think, maybe it just showswhat different places we're at
where we feel like we may beable to say that.
Versus in the past where maybewe have just felt like, we just
need to get on with it and nottalk about it.
And I think not as much now,although it still does happen
(19:58):
and maybe that's also becausewe're taking better care of
ourselves in terms of how muchwe put into the work.
But I know there has beenoccasions where we felt like
there's been moments on socialmedia where we felt like we've
been.
That's tip over the edge, interms of, managing our own
process and, engagement withsocial media and how much we're
(20:18):
giving to the platform.
and I think, I hope peopleunderstand that if we haven't
got back to them about somethingor if we've gone quiet on
something we might be goingthrough something at that
particular time and we're doingour best, but, yeah, it's tough
sometimes.
Caz Binstead (20:36):
yeah, that's a nice way to put it, we're doing
our best.
As all human beings, and allcommunity members feel this, all
we can do is do our best.
Dr Peter Blundell (20:45):
And I think it's also to acknowledge that we
don't mean we're not open tocritique and feedback and all of
that kind of stuff.
which we always are.
Caz Binstead (20:52):
I wanted to pick up on something we discussed in
the last podcast, the last timewe chatted together on here,
which was about where, socialmedia, where we're going in
terms of therapists using socialmedia, because we were
reflecting, I think last timeon, how it just wasn't really
clear.
and I think we were saying, thatit, one thing was obvious last,
(21:15):
so this was February last yearyou said we did it, yeah.
Yeah.
February last year, 2023, wasthat people were perhaps moving
platforms.
and certainly one thing I'dnoticed was more therapists
moving over to Instagram.
what are your thoughts whatyou're seeing at the moment?
Dr Peter Blundell (21:32):
I think I've seen more therapists using
LinkedIn, actually, rather thanInstagram.
What I found interesting aboutthat is at one point I felt like
people were coming off socialmedia.
It felt like where have theygone?
And then all of a sudden it feltoh no, actually people are
about, but they're not all onthe same platform.
(21:53):
Maybe I'm not connected toeverybody on LinkedIn who I am
connected to on Twitter, say forexample, or the same via
Instagram.
So I'm seeing people in lots ofdifferent spaces.
but LinkedIn seems to be one,when more discussions are
happening, but I think that'smaybe a bit more of a natural
function of LinkedIn, whereasInstagram's a little bit more
about the posts and the videosand the, and there isn't as much
(22:15):
discussion.
I don't think that happens inthat space.
Caz Binstead (22:18):
Yeah.
I was blown away with thisLinkedIn rise.
so one of my, one, I had one ofmy friends say it to me, she was
like, Oh, I'm done with Twitter.
I'm over on LinkedIn.
And I was like, really?
and then I had, more and more ofmy friends saying to me, Oh,
LinkedIn's the place to be.
And I was like, Okay, nowPeter's gonna have heard this so
(22:41):
much from me.
I'm a bit averse to anythingthat I see as corporate.
so this is just the artistic,creative nature of me.
So I was like, I'm not, I'mreally not sure about LinkedIn.
I'm not sure about this, but Imust say, I joined, you've been
over there for a while.
I know, but I did join thisyear.
And, yeah, I'm getting into theswing of things and it doesn't
(23:02):
actually feel that corporate tome because it feels like you
say, that actually betweentherapists, there's just
conversation based.
things going on.
Dr Peter Blundell (23:11):
I was going to say you've got lots of
therapists on there, so it'sprobably not going to feel very
corporate.
Caz Binstead (23:16):
Some people might be,
Dr Peter Blundell (23:17):
that is true, yeah, that was a bit of a
sweeping generalization.
I think there's so manydifferent platforms now, there's
kind of Blue Sky, there'sTikTok, there's so many
different, platforms and I thinkit's interesting to me as
therapists.
Do we need to have something onevery single platform?
people are taught if oneplatform goes down or disappears
(23:37):
or gets taken over by Elon Musk,then, do we want a different
platform?
And if you've only fostered agroup of people on one platform,
it then makes it Difficult totransfer over, or it can make it
more difficult to transfer over.
And I should mention threads inthis somewhere as well,
Caz Binstead (23:52):
it's just reminding me of when we actually
thought Twitter was going down.
Do you remember?
I don't know if people wereaware.
Everyone on Twitter was aware ofthis, but I can't even remember
when it was, but it must've beenwhen Elon Musk was first.
buying it, or was he gonna buyit, or was it all gonna fall
through, something like that.
But we all thought Twitter wasgoing.
(24:12):
and it was quite a kind of, ohmy god what's gonna happen if
this space goes?
And I think for us I was gonnasay we feel at home on Twitter,
but I'm not sure that's theright way to put it really, but,
we did both meet on Twitter and,we've been on Twitter for years
we both still have pretty bigfollowings.
I do feel like people are stillskulking around we, we've known
(24:35):
this about our community inparticular that there's some
people are very, in it, and somepeople are more on the
outskirts, and people wouldevery now and again I always
say, something I love when weget to the birthday and people
who, Sometimes I wouldn't evenknow who people were and they'd
send me a message saying thankyou for the community and there
was, I just love that.
I love that because, ourcommunity is not just there for
(24:58):
people who use our hashtag orwho are involved in the
discussions.
Dr Peter Blundell (25:02):
I think there was a lot of different
communities that were bereftwhen Twitter or X was changing
and it feels to me like thealgorithm has changed.
So there's lots ofadvertisements, maybe people
commenting who aren't reallypart of the therapy community is
seeing the posts and so it's abit difficult.
I think people were worriedthat.
communities they'd spent manyyears cultivating were was going
(25:24):
to be gone.
So I think that's why peoplemight be reluctant to leave
Twitter.
but also, I've got people onLinkedIn who come to me and we
have a chat and then they're Oh,what's going on over there
because I'm just not part of it.
whereas I think before whateverwas going on Twitter, people
knew about, yeah, there seemedto be discussions and stuff like
that, but there's so many peoplewho aren't there now.
that I think that's changedquite a bit.
(25:45):
I know this is where I think Cazand I might be slightly
different at the moment is, so Ithink you still post quite
regularly.
So you still have an activeengagement.
Nice, it's not that I don't postat all.
I'm a bit more back, not offsocial media because I'm still
there looking, but I supposesome of the stuff I'm trying to
do is create like this longerform content around like
podcasts or articles or blogs orwhatever.
(26:08):
which I know you're also doingwith other stuff, but I think
you do that and post as well.
whereas I felt like sometimesposting individual stuff, it
would get lost in the ether.
So you'd have an interactionover that day and then it'd be
gone then, it's in the historyof your timeline somewhere.
Yeah.
Whereas like the podcasts or thewriting or whatever is something
that can stay there forever.
And maybe personally I mightpost more of that stuff now, and
(26:32):
less of the discussion stuff.
Which I still find interestingand I still will engage with
that, but just not as much as Iwas doing beforehand.
Caz Binstead (26:39):
Yeah, it's such a good point though.
I think, community work is onething.
And community is all about beingable to have these discussions
and, just for the sake of havingthe discussions and giving
people a voice who might nototherwise have one.
And I think that one of thepowerful things about the
Therapist Connect hashtag hasbeen that people can use that
(27:01):
hashtag and can feel like theycan have a say if they feel,
Somewhat bottom of the rung interms of our profession.
and we do have a very,hierarchical profession.
I think that the social mediaspace has been important over
the past years in terms of,people having, more of a voice,
Dr Peter Blundell (27:23):
And maybe levelling that hierarchy a
little bit as well.
Caz Binstead (27:26):
yes, exactly.
Now, this is the but, because,absolutely, levelling that
hierarchy, but in what you weresaying there in terms of
longevity and things Put in, putin stone, I have a little remark
or that I guess something I'venoticed, which is around, how
(27:49):
nothing's protected in socialmedia.
You can write a tweet, you canwrite a post, you can even do a
podcast and I know that withreferencing these days, you can
pretty much reference, andreference fairly, but, and of
course Peter's going to know it.
Being an academic, Peter knowsso much more about this than I
do, even though I am a writer aswell.
But, if you have an idea or ifyou've done something, actually,
(28:11):
and this is aside from communitywork, but maybe this is about
individual stuff where you cansay, Oh, actually, I did that,
or I talked about that, this issomething I've tried to really
think about myself because I'mso for community and, working
together, collaboration, I'm allfor that.
(28:32):
But, I think for me, sometimes Idon't give myself enough You
were one of the first people todo that.
Or you and Peter were one of thefirst people to do that.
I had discussions with ProfessorLynne Gabriel and, John Wilson
from, online events obviouslyonline events has been community
based, they've been aroundlonger than Therapist Connect,
but it felt like they were verymuch there with us when we were
(28:54):
in the pandemic and I waschatting with them and they were
both saying Therapist Connectwas doing a lot of the stuff
that other communities and otherpeople are writing about and
doing now.
Therapist Connect was actuallydoing that, first, in terms of
hierarchy and power, so givingpeople a voice, does bring
people up and help to addressthat, but on the other level, if
(29:17):
some of the people with the mostpower in this profession are
then jumping things that havebeen said by, say, a lay, a
private tweet or whatever has areally great idea, and someone
else with power picks it up andruns with it.
That then does the opposite.
So we always feel and maybe thisis something for us to think
about.
(29:38):
As a community and depending onour time and stuff like that,
but yeah, how much, as a realcommunity based platform, we can
even, model something in termsof, the protection and the
respect, around, Yeah.
Ideas that people have orwhatever.
Does that make sense what I'msaying?
Dr Peter Blundell (29:57):
It does make sense.
I don't know why this image iscoming to my mind, but I was
thinking about, cause I'vealways thought this, that
Twitter has been a bed of ideas,just lots of people's opinions
and ideas and thoughts andreflections.
I just had an image of a vacuumcleaner.
So as if someone was just comingalong to that and going, just
sucking it all up and going,yep, thanks very much.
(30:20):
That's fantastic.
I'll take all of that for me.
but not actually giving creditto the people who came up with
it in the first place.
And sometimes that might beunintentional as in.
Oh, you've read the idea andthen you've forgotten who came
up with it or you even believethat you came up with it
yourself, but actually it wassomething that you read
somewhere.
And also the intentional where,people have been working in this
(30:41):
area for a long time, yet you'retaking the learning from them
and portraying it as your ownidea.
so I feel like we're coming.
To the end now of ourdiscussion, we didn't script any
of it.
We just said we were going tosee how it went.
one of the things we did agreeupon is that we were just going
to share this quote, from.
(31:03):
the Handbook of Social Justicein Psychological Therapies,
Power, Politics and Change,which is, edited by Laura Ann
Winter and Divine Charura.
it's the very last, paragraph ofthe book, written by Laura and
Divine, and we just thought thiskind of represented some of the
things that we wanted to talkabout today.
social justice action can, andoften does, come with risks for
(31:27):
the individual or individuals orcommunity groups who engage in
action and activism.
This is particularly the casewhere the individual is
minoritized or marginalizedthemselves and advocating or
engaging in social justice workconnected to their marginalized
identities.
Historically, we know there aremany examples in which activists
(31:49):
were murdered or sufferedpolitical violence and
silencing.
There are costs to engaging inthis work and these should not
be ignored.
We need to acknowledge thesecosts and take care of ourselves
and of one another as weprogress in trying to change
things for the better.
And then the final line is wehope that the ideas contained
(32:11):
within this book help ourprofessions to do just that.
I suppose what we're hoping foris that some of the thoughts and
reflections that we've had inthis podcast and some of the
other guests of the podcast andthe community, are moving a dial
towards that as well.
Yeah, I'll mention all that.
Thank you, Laura and Devine aswell.
(32:32):
so thank you everyone forlistening to, this podcast
episode.
we'll be back next month talkingto more therapists about their
life and work.
Thank you very much.
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