October 31, 2024 • 35 mins
The podcast episode titled "Self-Care for Therapists" discusses the importance of self-care for mental health professionals. Dr Peter Blundell interviews therapists about their strategies for self-care exploring how to avoid burnout, manage stress, and maintain a healthy work-life balance. The conversation emphasizes the need for therapists to prioritize their well-being, create boundaries, and engage in reflective practices. The episode offers practical tips and real-life examples to help therapists stay resilient and effective in their roles.
Chloe Foster runs Sussex Rainbow Counselling, a service that specialises in providing support and therapy to the LGBTQ+ community. For more detailed information or to contact Chloe, visit the Sussex Rainbow Counselling website or their Email Counselling Academy.
Sam Hope is an experienced trainer who has been working in EDI/Anti-oppressive practice for over a decade. Sam’s book Person Centred Counselling for Trans and Gender Diverse People is available from Jessica Kingsley Publishers.
Tom Smithson set up New Horizon counselling in 2018. He's a BACP registered therapist supervisor, and tutor with many years of extensive therapeutic experience.
Dr Mish Seabrook offers therapy, supervision, training, and consultancy and now adds coaching to her skills in serving others. She is BACP registered & accredited.
Ellis J Johnson is a qualified Psychodynamic Psychotherapeutic Counsellor and a queer, trans man of colour. He delivers training to counsellors in working affirmatively around gender and also delivers training in trans awareness and anti-racist practice.
Maxine Walsh has been a counsellor and psychotherapist for 11 years with four years of experience in private practice. She has been accredited by the Irish Association of Counsellors and Psychotherapists since 2019.
Dianne Sotomey is the bestselling author of her new book “Check Your Thoughts! Your Life Depends on It”! - How your thoughts shape your everyday life and who you become. She is also a UKCP-registered psychotherapist, clinical supervisor and trainer.
Dr Peter Blundell (he/him/his) is an academic, researcher, lecturer, trainer, and consultant. He is a counsellor/psychotherapist, a social worker, and a senior lecturer at Liverpool John Moores University.
Article:
Aujla, M., & Narasimhan, M. (2023). The cycling of self-care through history. The Lancet, 402(10417), 2066-2067.
#TherapistsConnect is a platform for connecting therapists.
Website: www.Therapists-Connect.com
Twitter: @Therapists_C
Instagram: @TherapistsConnect
Facebook: @TherConnect
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Peter Blundell (00:45):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of
the therapist connect podcast.
My name is Dr.
Peter Blundell.
And today we have anotherspecial episode for you based on
the topic of self care.
And we've recently did anotherepisode like this based on
silence in therapy.
And the episode was so popularthat I thought I would do it
again, but with a differenttopic.
So in the episode, we collatedthe answers from all of our
(01:07):
different guests around thespecific topic, and then collate
them together in one episode.
So in this episode, I'm going toexplore the subject of self care
from different therapistsperspectives.
And before I do that, I justwants to give a bit of an
overview of this concept of selfcare.
From some of the literature thatI've been reading around this
particular topic, this is notextensive, but just some of the
(01:29):
articles that I've read recentlyaround the topic of self care.
I'll include the link to thesein the show notes.
So in this first article byMandip Auija and Manjiulaa
Narasimhan theydiscussed thehistory of the concept of self
care within the medicalprofession in their article
called the art of medicine, thecycling of self care through
history.
(01:50):
Now in their article, theyhighlight how self-care is not a
new practice, but it's somethingthat has been established in
many age communities andcivilizations for millennia.
Mandip and Manjulaa state,modern medicine itself born
within a cultural and politicalframework, belonging to a
specific time place andworldview.
Which sorts of universalprinciples that could be applied
(02:12):
to all peoples and societies.
It also served as a tool duringEuropean colonization, enabling
expansion beyond its point oforigin.
And establishing a new hierarchyof knowledge that would impact
individual and communalindigenous care practices.
End quote.
What they're talking about herein this article is that the
(02:33):
knowledge of self-care practicesthat was built up over many
millennia within groups andcommunities was completely
devalued by the advances ofmodern medicine across Western
civilizations.
Now Mandeep and Manjulaa alsohighlights how motivations to
practice self-care are manifold,including intrinsic drives for
(02:54):
self-reliance and as a reactionto systematic disempowerment of
individuals in modern medicalinstitutions.
And joining the 1970s in the USAgrowing critiques of modern
medicine led to self care,becoming a political act of body
sovereignty End quote.
And I'm going to come back tothis idea of self care as a
(03:14):
liberatory practice later on inthe podcast.
So as the philosopher, AnthonyWestern states, when the need
for self care rises out ofsystematic and institutional
failures and existing systems.
It implies a collective struggletaking place alongside other
critiques of disempowerment ofindividuals by contemporary
institutions and professions.
(03:37):
So it seems to me that all thetherapists in this episode are
approaching self-care from verydifferent perspectives.
i.e., thinking about their ownway to self care.
But that the commonality acrossthese accounts is finding a way
to look after themselves withina system and society that
doesn't always support or enableit.
So in this first clip I talk toDianne Sotomey I originally
(04:00):
released an episode with her inSeptember, 2023, which you can
go back and listen to if you'dlike to find out more about her.
Diane is an author.
Her book, check your thoughts.
Your life depends on it.
How your thoughts shape youreveryday life and who you become
is a best seller.
Dianne is a a UK CP, registeredpsychotherapist, clinical
supervisor and trainer.
(04:21):
And here Diane delve deeper intothe theme of individuality.
When thinking about self care.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your experience or your
ideas about therapists orsupervisors self care and what
we might need to do to sustain ahealthy therapy practice?
I feel like the insights in yourbook might help with some of
this.
Dianne Sotomey (04:43):
Yes and also I think as a psychotherapist I do
feel that it's so important thatwe cultivate some kind of Daily
practice as part of our selfcare, because I think we already
have life happening.
Then you have clients you'reworking with.
(05:05):
Sometimes you can walk away withsome of their stuff, and if you
don't have a daily practicewhere you can really sit and be
with you and reflect and connectwith who you are, you can be
connecting to all sorts.
Thanks.
And just operating in thisfrantic, but because it can feel
(05:27):
like a, like you're normal, youdon't realize how much you're
carrying other people's thoughtswith you.
But when we have some kind of adaily practice where we have to
stop and reflect and go deep andconnect with ourselves, you
don't notice these things.
And I think it's so important,especially with the kind of work
(05:48):
that we do.
For some, it will be, for some,it might be just paying
attention on a moment by momentbasis, just thinking about what
you're thinking about.
For others, it might be ameditative practice.
For some, it might be, doingyour yoga and using it.
I think there are so many formsand everyone, it will be useful
(06:10):
for everyone to figure out whatit is they gravitate towards,
but I think having some form ofdaily practice is essential for
self care.
Dr Peter Blundell (06:20):
I think that's really important and I
think I like what you're sayingthere in terms of, it's all
unique to each of usindividually, when you try and
put in practices that don'tresonate with you or don't fit
into your life or whatever itis, you can almost feel like I'm
failing at this as well as that.
But actually if you findsomething that works for you but
(06:40):
I think that goes back tosomething we were talking about
earlier, which is understandingyourself first, To know what
works and really fostering thatunderstanding.
Dianne Sotomey (06:50):
That's it.
That's it.
Because otherwise, if we're notat our best forms, we're going
in and I just think people arepaying us to get the best for
themselves.
So we need to be in tip topshape and whatever it takes to
keep us in tip top shape,because sometimes doing this You
(07:12):
can sometimes do it in yoursleep, if not literally.
Yeah.
But you, it, you can, it canbecome, it's keeping it fresh
and keeping it, yeah.
I think it's so importantbecause without that, I'd just
be autopilot.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:25):
Yeah.
And to keep it fresh, you needto be fresh.
Dianne Sotomey (07:28):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Otherwise we're being led.
By automation.
And because we're, we might begood at what we're doing.
We don't actually realize howsometimes we might not be as
present as we could be.
And this next clip, I chat toSam Hope.
Sam is a seasoned trainer,author, counselor, and
(07:50):
consultant with person centeredanti-oppressive values.
I originally spoke to them inJanuary, 2024.
Their book person centeredcounseling for trans and gender
diverse people is an excellentresource and is available from
Jessica Kingsley publishers.
Sam approach their discussion ofself-care from this perspective
of communities and interpersonalrelationships.
Sam Hope (08:15):
Okay.
Yeah I think the term self careis a really individualistic
concept.
And I'm not certain that it's aspossible as we think we are set
as pack animals.
I'm not sure where is capable ofthat sort of it almost.
Resonates with bootstrap theory,doesn't it?
(08:38):
You have to look after yourself.
I don't know.
I suspect that care iscollective and community and
relational like so much else's.
So for me, as a marginalizedtherapist looking after myself
as a practitioner has been verymuch based on finding
(09:00):
communities where I'm supportedwhere I have safety where I'm
not experiencing too manymicroaggressions for me to feel
in connection with the peoplearound me.
And yeah, for me.
Then, in terms of what I giveback to that ca caring for a
(09:22):
community, and Being communityoriented and putting something
into making spaces safer feelslike really feels like self care
if because it's a 360 thing forme.
Yes, obviously.
Baths with candles and eating,right?
(09:42):
And, I have a little, I'm quitemobility impaired, but I have a
little park that's just oppositemy home.
I'm pushing myself to get intothe park every day and shuffle
around.
Those are really importantaspects of self care, but
actually they're not nearly asimportant as those relational
things.
I think, just for our clients,the reason they come to therapy
(10:02):
is for relationship, right?
Because it is so transformative.
And I feel like.
It's really interesting we dosomething so relational but then
we forget that it's relationaland we individualize the idea of
therapy.
And I think that's dangerous andfor me self care is a very
individualized concept sorelational care.
Dr Peter Blundell (10:26):
relational care, rename the episode to
something like that.
But I think what's reallyimportant, I was thinking about
when Therapist Connect set upand in the middle of the
pandemic and so many therapistsworking in private practice or
in agencies even, and justworking on their own and not
having that community and peopleto talk to.
And how much of that I thinkwas.
(10:48):
probably missing before thepandemic and then becoming even
more emphasized throughout thepandemic.
And I think yeah, there'ssomething about us trying to do
all of this on our own.
And the kind of term self care,like you're saying, almost like
applying the blame to yourself,while you haven't looked after
yourself enough, when it'sactually what about looking
after each other?
Sam Hope (11:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I, I think I had a headstart with the pandemic because
I was already working online andI was always quite already quite
isolated as a disabled counselorfrom a marginalized identity.
So I had I already had toestablish those support networks
and many of them were onlinesupport networks.
So I.
(11:28):
personally thrived in thepandemic because they already
had those structures.
And yeah, but it's reallyimportant for people to have
those.
And also I think to value onlineconnection because, especially
those of us in private practice,we might not always have the
energy to get out and do thingsand meet people in person.
Actually, online connections areHugely beneficial and important
(11:52):
and we need not to see those aslesser because there's still
connections.
Dr Peter Blundell (11:56):
Absolutely.
And this next clip, I speak toChloe foster.
In their original episode, wetalked about email counseling
and alternative ways of workingas a therapist.
These topics tied in withChloe's discussion of self care,
which focused on how to manageyour practice as a therapist in
private practice.
Chloe Foster (12:13):
Yeah, I was really thinking about this one because
I was thinking back to my earlydays in private practice and I
found self care quite hard andputting in the boundaries and I
think it's because I'm a verydetermined.
person.
So it's quite hard for me torest and just wanting to take on
more and more.
(12:33):
So I was, I was working too manyevenings, too many clients, lots
of low cost.
I just, there was just so muchgoing on and I was just
determined to make it work, butI wasn't really making it work
because I was just doing toomuch really.
Nowadays, I've really strippedthings back and thought about
(12:53):
what I want my week to look likeand how do I want to work.
And I think that for me, and thetips I would give to my younger
self or counsellors who arenewly qualified around self care
would be to think reallycarefully about your boundaries.
And to be really clear toyourself of your boundaries, but
(13:14):
also to your clients around yourboundaries.
I've always been pretty good atbeing clear around boundaries
with clients and that'sthankfully not been too
difficult, but the boundariesfor myself is harder.
So for example, I don't workevenings anymore.
I do a four day week and I'vegot set times like that I'll
(13:36):
offer to clients.
And because I do a lot of emailcounselling, I can juggle my
diary to fit that.
what works for me at specifictimes and gives me so much
flexibility.
So yeah, I think it's working somuch better for me and just
taking, trying to dial back abit and not go too fast with
(13:59):
everything.
Although I'm definitely not anexpert at it because I have to
constantly tell myself if I keepgetting ideas Nope, that's going
to have to be.
For a later date or whenever.
I know, because I've always gotso many things that I want to
do.
And never enough energy or time.
Dr Peter Blundell (14:16):
I can totally relate to that.
I totally relate to it.
Saying no can be the mostdifficult thing.
You're not saying no becauseit's an awful idea.
It's difficult to say no becauseit's a fantastic project or
thing that you want to getinvolved with.
But it sounds like yourboundaries just through the
whole conversation that we'vetalked about has been an
evolution in terms of Thedifferent projects and things
(14:36):
you've been involved with.
And it sounds like you've founda bit more of a nice balance.
Yeah,
Chloe Foster (14:42):
I definitely feel like although things are
definitely not perfect,everyone, obviously, including
counselors could be better atself care.
But.
It's much better than it was,I'm, I feel I can pace myself, I
can make sure I'm getting enoughbreaks, taking enough annual
leave, not working weekends,things like that.
(15:03):
And maybe that's because I'm abit more confident in myself and
a bit more established, 10 yearson, I feel more oh, I'm not
scared that there's not going tobe another client coming along,
so I don't feel so scared to sayno or to refer on, which maybe I
would have done.
In fact, definitely I would havedone in the early days, to be
like, Oh, I'm not going to getenough clients.
(15:26):
So I think that it's theconfidence has grown.
And I would like to hope thathappens to most of us with time.
Dr Peter Blundell (15:32):
In my discussion with Maxine Walsh.
She also wants to be honestabout some of the difficulties
she faced as a therapist inprivate practice.
And these discussionsinterlinked with the topics we
talked about, in her originalepisodes in October, 2023.
Maxine is a therapist in privatepractice and a member of the
Irish association of counselorsand psychotherapists.
Maxine Walsh (15:52):
That's an interesting question.
Like you're talking aboutprobably the silence piece.
And the self-care piece isprobably the two things that I
would most talk about insupervision.
Dr Peter Blundell (16:07):
that's fascinating.
Maxine Walsh (16:10):
Be because self-care for me has been a
journey.
That's, that I'm still on It'sit's, it's essential.
It's essential.
And I think a lot of us aren'tvery good at it.
I'm gonna put my hand up and saythat it's definitely something
that I have struggled with too.
(16:32):
Self care and what it is, andthat this is one of the things I
notice about social media isthat there's a lot of people on
social media therapists andcoaches and influencers who talk
about self-care.
And what they're talking aboutis what self-care is for them.
(16:54):
Not what self care is foreverybody else, because it is
really unique to everyone.
And I, for me, what self careis, taking the time every day to
ask myself what I need, and thengiving myself what I need.
And some days that can be, youneed to pay your bills.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:15):
I think that's really important.
And one of the reasons I want toask this question was because I
agree with what you're saying interms of there's so much advice
about this is what self carelooks like.
And actually we can almost likeberate ourselves for oh, I'm not
doing that.
So I'm not looking after myselfor I'm not doing this.
But actually, as you say, selfcare is different for everybody.
(17:39):
And that can look verydifferent.
And as you say.
It might be that you need to payyour bills.
And that's what self care is,yeah.
So that extra client that youneed to take on, yes.
Might be really important foryou.
I think it's also reallyinteresting as well, that idea
of self care in terms of, almostfeels like an activity that we
need to do, but it's one of thethings that I've always thought
(18:00):
about Is it also about therelationship that we have with
ourselves?
So we're always talking aboutbeing in relationship with
clients and other professionals,but like what relationship do we
have with ourself in terms ofhow we care for ourselves?
Which I think again, that'sgoing to look differently for
different people.
Maxine Walsh (18:15):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think because, I wasthinking there last week about,
what counselling is, what typeof therapy is, and It is about
for, I think a lot of it, a lotof it is about holding clients
hands as they discoverthemselves.
(18:37):
And so if we're not there, ifwe're not also on that journey
of discovering ourselves, thenhow can we adequately support a
client who is on that journeytoo,
Dr Peter Blundell (18:49):
yeah.
And I think it can be scary fortherapists sometimes to admit
that.
They haven't taken care ofthemselves or that they're,
they've got difficulties thatthey need to work through, but I
think it's really important thatwe are able to do that and take
it to supervision or therapy orwhatever area of support that we
need to.
No, I completely agree.
And this next clip.
Which is way back from November20 23.
(19:11):
I interviewed Dr.
Mish Seabrook, who offers sometop tips when thinking about
self care.
Mish office therapy,supervision, training, and
consultancy.
And now it's coaching to ourskills and serving others.
She has a specialist interest insupervision and resilience,
which obviously seems quitepertinent to the topic of self
care.
(19:31):
And she founded the supervisionInstitute where she shares
knowledge and offers CPD andsupport about supervision.
I'm wondering, are you, couldyou give us maybe like a top tip
for if people want to thinkabout self care either as a
therapist or as a supervisor tosustain their practice to keep
it healthy
Dr Mish Seabrook (19:48):
if I knew that.
I yeah, it's the chip.
It's the balance is reallytricky.
Yeah.
And I think there's somethingabout being honest where you are
with that.
I'm not being afraid to behonest with peers or be honest
in supervision about where youreally are.
(20:12):
And my main takeaway from.
My, my phrase that kind ofsummed up my research in it was,
how are you?
And it was such a simplequestion, but actually there's
so many layers to that.
So think about your relationshipwith looking after yourself.
What's that like?
And I think it's a constantevaluation of it going, am I
being kind to myself?
(20:33):
Cause I'm feeling a bit.
rubbish today about lookingafter myself or what time do I
have to really look aftermyself?
Or is it, am I doing it as anadd on?
Is it on my to do list and itkeeps going further and further
down or have I integrated thisas part of my everyday non
negotiable commitment?
(20:53):
And we sit at a really trickyplace as therapists in terms of
we have to talk about lookingafter selves a lot, but I
actually think we should do iteven more than we need to.
And knowing when to dial it up abit more those kind of pinch
points in our work or in ourlife, life happens.
(21:14):
We are only human.
Things get in the way.
Being able to be kind toourselves when things do get in
the way and not tell ourselvesoff too much for being these
perfect, again, inverted commasversions of ourselves, just
allow yourself to be vulnerable.
Dr Peter Blundell (21:31):
I love that.
I was thinking about the idea oflike self care being another
tip, but the thing on your listOh, I haven't done self care.
So it's another thing to beatyourself up about.
But also how you phrased itearlier on when you were talking
about, actually it's a subtledifference in language, but
actually could make a bigdifference in terms of rather
than just self care, thinkingabout the relationship that you
have with yourself.
Dianne Sotomey (21:51):
Yeah.
And we often think ethicallyabout what is the impact on the
client and putting the clientsat the center of our work.
But I'd also argue, hang on aminute, unless we're putting
ourselves at the center of ourwork, then we can't be there for
anyone else.
How are you going to be able toshow up for anyone if you're not
being kind to yourself as well?
(22:11):
And I think sometimes we havethose, that voice, that, that
loud, critical voice of notbeing good enough.
And for some of us that do havethat voice it's sometimes it's
hard.
We have to find a way to disruptit.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:25):
Yeah, it's that old metaphor, isn't it?
Of the oxygen mask in the plane.
Got to put it on yourself first.
Dr Mish Seabrook (22:31):
Yeah, or as the great RuPaul would say, How
the hell are you going to loveanyone else when you can't love
yourself, we have to really lookat that and really examine that
relationship.
And know that it's movable.
We don't get it right.
Like our learning, it's not adone deal.
It's a constant evolution.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:50):
And I think there's something there about
being really mindful about howwe look after ourselves and not
just, Oh, I've had, I've seenthree clients in a row.
I'm going to take, 10 minutesfor myself because that's,
Dr Mish Seabrook (23:01):
Yeah, self care.
Dr Peter Blundell (23:02):
That's self care and I've ticked it off for
today.
Dr Mish Seabrook (23:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And knowing what it means foryou as an individual in terms
of, is it about, Yeah.
Is it about peace?
Is it about energy?
Is it about moving?
Is it about sitting down?
Is it, and what can you do?
Whether that's physically orfinancially or what can you do
and what you might want to do.
They may be quite differentthings, but just really
(23:28):
attending to what do I needright, right now in this moment.
And sometimes for me, it will beabout blasting loud music and
singing along.
And sometimes it will be like, Ijust need absolute silence.
And they're both equally asreplenishing for different
reasons.
Dr Peter Blundell (23:43):
And I think sometimes sitting with that,
maybe anxiety of something notbeing done, maybe, going, okay,
but actually, if I approach it,once I've had a rest or a break
or whatever, actually, maybe Imight do the task better as well
as looking after myself,potentially.
Tom Smithson opens up aboutstarting up in private practice.
I'm reflecting on how we treatourselves when in
self-employment and why thatmight be different to how we
(24:06):
expect to be treated asemployees.
Tom sets up new horizoncounseling in 2018.
Is a BAC P registered therapist,supervisor and tutor with many
years of extensive therapeuticexperience.
And he specializes in workingwith people from the LGBTQIA+.
Community.
Tom Smithson (24:24):
I think links back massively to the community, the
connection with people, almostforcing yourself to put yourself
out there and and connect withpeople.
And I know that's difficult.
I say that as an introvert.
It's one of my worst things ofhaving to meet new people, but
it's always worth the risk.
(24:44):
Even if you don't get on withsomeone, it's still worth the
risk that you put yourself outthere.
So I think saying, I am going totry and connect with a few
people.
I want to have a handful ofpeople that I can speak to if I
need to.
So that's all you need.
It's not about having a wholegroup of people.
It's just having a few peoplethat you can go to if you need
to.
And alongside that, making surethat you look after yourself and
(25:07):
take time off.
I've been guilty of this in thepast where I've been too scared
to take time off.
Or I've been worried aboutclients or I've been worried
about money or I've been all ofthese sort of things.
And I've really, it's beenbecome a debate about taking
time off.
That was only for a few years tobe fair.
And now it's actually, if youwere working for an
organization, you would haveyour 28 days.
And You need to have 28 days.
(25:28):
And if you're not having 28days, what's going on?
And that's something forsupervision.
Now, I try to tally up my timeoff.
And I know that's difficult todo.
Again, that comes from aprivilege of being having a that
financial stability.
But again, that's something thatyou can work towards as well in
terms of preparing yourself,saving up all of these sort of
things.
Yeah, making sure you have yourtime off.
Dr Peter Blundell (25:46):
I think that's good advice.
I was thinking about, I wonderwhether there's something about
being self employed and alsoworking on your own because I
hear other kind of people whoare self employed do the same
fear of taking time off, beenlike they've always got a kind
of working and not been able totake that break.
And I was interested as wellthat you said, actually for a
couple of years that youstruggled to take that time off
(26:08):
and I was wondering is thatmaybe when you were had started
in private practice and wereworried, Oh isn't it?
Is this stable?
Like my income and kind of,yeah.
Tom Smithson (26:17):
Yeah.
That was a huge part of it.
I think one part of it was, Idon't want to miss anything.
What if I get an inquiry or whatif someone wants an appointment
or something.
And I hate bringing it back tomoney, but that is the world we
live in.
And it was very much a case of,I was paying My rent for where I
live and the rent for my office.
And it was like, if I take timeoff, will I be able to pay my
rent?
And I think in a weird kind of,in a, Dark sort of way I think
(26:40):
that's an important part of theprocess, I would have had, I
would have hated it to be abreeze.
But that was something that heldme back from taking time off at
times.
Fortunately, because my workloadwasn't too heavy, never got to
the point where I felt like Icaused any harm but I think that
is a risk where if I hadn't.
If things hadn't changed for meand I'd not take any time off,
(27:01):
then that would have had animpact on my clients.
I managed to dodge that bullet.
But I think that's a real riskwhen you're like I either go to
work and pay my rent or I taketime off and then worry about
not paying my rent.
Yeah, it feels like stress.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Peter Blundell (27:16):
And that's why I think I was thinking about
those first few years that maybeit's, temporarily as you're
starting your business that youtake less leave, but as maybe
you get to a practice where yourealize actually this I'm
sustaining this and it's okay,not just using those practices
that have got you through in thepast.
Tom Smithson (27:32):
Yeah, exactly.
Actually, I can take time offnow without kind of everything
falling apart.
Yeah, I suppose stopping andtaking a moment to actually ask
yourself, when's the last time Ihad a break?
Do I need one?
Dr Peter Blundell (27:47):
And this last clip I talked to Ellis J.
Johnson.
Ellis is a qualifiedpsychodynamic psychotherapeutic
counselor, and a queer transmanof color.
He delivers training tocounselors in working
affirmatively around gender andalso delivers training in trans
awareness and anti-racistpractice.
To organizations around thecountry and also
internationally.
(28:09):
And our discussion, we touch onthe structural impact of
capitalism and old self-carepractices.
And thinking about liberation,very principles for self-care.
Ellis J Johnson (28:16):
So this is something I think about a lot as
somebody who has, burnt out inthe past and I'm very, tried to
be very careful now about takingcare of myself and it's an
ongoing challenge, right?
I think it's very easy to slipback into ways of working that
are not sustainable.
So one method that I've foundhas worked really well for me is
(28:39):
to schedule breaks, maybe more,even more often than I think I
need them.
So at the moment, I'll work forabout 6 weeks or 7 weeks and
have a break every, yeah, aboutevery 6 or 7 weeks of one week.
And then try and have some timeoff in the summer as well, if I
can.
And I was really terrified aboutdoing that as somebody who is
(28:59):
used to working every hour, Godsends kind of thing.
It was really scary for me tosay actually, I need, this is
maybe what I need.
So I did that last year and itworked really well.
And, the year before I wasgetting ill all the time the
impacts of COVID and all sortsof things.
And the predictability of it.
Actually was, has worked reallywell for me.
(29:19):
And from what I can see, it'sworked quite well for clients as
well.
So having to cancel last minute,in, in the last year, a couple
of years ago and having to movesessions all the time, it's just
unsustainable way to work andparticularly as a psychodynamic
practitioner who, I like to havemy clients at the same time
every week, without movingaround at all, if I can help it,
(29:40):
it was breaking my heart reallyto have to.
To keep moving things.
So we have a level ofpredictability now.
And that seems to, yeah, Inoticed that.
Yeah clients seem to respondwell to that because we have
more breaks.
More often, there seems to bealmost like a different kind of
(30:01):
use of the break as well.
So clients often coming back andbeing like, okay, I knew I was
going to have that time tointegrate the things we've been
thinking about to, to see wherethe themes have come up in the
real world a little bit more.
So I'm noticing actually thatthe break as it started to
become an even more integralpart of the work.
And we, as always we work withit, we work with it, even like I
(30:24):
said earlier, if I've got adifferent glass from last week,
I can, I'll manage that and I'llsee if it pops, it'll come up.
It's never has done so far.
Um, you work with it.
So I think I also do a lot ofsupervision for other people
working in the charity sector atthe moment.
So lots of differentorganizations.
So big part of that workactually is, saying to people
(30:47):
you are the priority, like yourlongevity, making this work
sustainable is my priority.
Um, so that's.
And it's sometimes a bit likeyeah, it's, it can be very
difficult to help people to seethat they need to take care of
themselves, actually is whatI've noticed, really difficult.
Dr Peter Blundell (31:03):
I think when you were talking, I was thinking
about capitalism, and the, justthe drive for more and more, and
how it's counter cultural at themoment, almost, to put in those
breaks and say, actually, I'mresting so I can sustain myself
rather than keep growing moreand more.
Ellis J Johnson (31:18):
Yeah, and that's the thing of, private
practice as well, isn't it?
You haven't got any safety nets.
And I think for me also, there'sa class thing here, being a
working class person, it is youwork, you go to work and you
work as much as you can and ashard as you can, it's that kind
of scarcity mindset.
And having to work against thatis, is quite difficult.
But I think, as I said earlier,if I hadn't have had that kind
(31:41):
of burnout I wouldn't haveunderstood actually that it's
not negotiable.
It's not negotiable for me towork 60 hours a week.
Because my body will stopworking, even if my mind is
still going, which it was at thetime, I didn't feel depressed.
I didn't feel overwhelmed.
I thought I was fine, but mybody just stopped.
It just stopped.
I tried to talk about that topeople as much as possible to
(32:03):
say, you might not see it comein.
Your barometer will be skewed atthis point.
So what feels like having areally big break is probably
actually just completely.
normal and natural, when I wasat my worst kind of working so
much, I remember I couldn'ttake, I couldn't fathom taking
an hour off to go to thedoctors.
I was just like, I, there's noway I could leave work for an
(32:25):
hour.
I just cannot do it.
So then not working for twoweeks was like, Oh my God, this
is outrageous.
Then turned into six months andthat just, it broke the
barometer for me.
I was like, okay, I needwhatever I need.
Actually, at this point, andthat's, I try to talk about it
as much as possible to say, ifyou want to be doing this work
(32:47):
longer term, you have to havestrategies in place and
connection also, I think is abig one.
Dr Peter Blundell (32:53):
It sounds like your body was giving you
the message, take a break.
Ellis J Johnson (32:56):
Yeah, it was this kind of, it's that idea of
my body took a break because itwanted to take a break.
I didn't have a say in it.
Do you know, take care ofyourself or your body will take
care of itself for you.
Dr Peter Blundell (33:07):
I was interested in hearing you talk
about from a working classbackground, because I'm from a
working class background, and atone point I realized that when
am I going to get to the pointwhere I say, oh it's okay now,
you've done not enough, youdon't have to keep going and
going and going, no one everteaches you that bit.
Ellis J Johnson (33:22):
Actually people teach you the opposite,
particularly again, if you'refrom working class background or
have a background of poverty,it's the opposite.
It's, you better keep goingbecause if you don't, you're You
know, we don't know what's,what's around the corner.
And so it's really profoundlearning.
And I think this is where the,we have to engage with all these
(33:43):
intersections of identity.
We have to acknowledge that it'snot the same for working class
therapists or students.
It's not the same for black andbrown students as it is for
white students.
And it's certainly not the samefor trans students as it is for
non trans students.
Dr Peter Blundell (34:01):
I really want to thank all of the guests for
this episode of the podcast.
Hope it has given therapistssome thought and reflections
around their own self-carepractices.
And I hope you enjoyed listeningto it as much as I did creating
it.
I wants to leave you with aquote from Audre Lorde taken
from her book, A Burst of Light: And Other Essays. (34:16):
undefined
Sometimes, I feel like I amliving on a different star from
the one I'm used to callinghome.
It has not been a steadyprogression.
I had to examine in my dreams aswell as in my immune function
tests, the devastating effectsof overextension.
(34:37):
Overextending myself is notstretching myself.
I had to accept how difficult itis to monitor the difference.
Necessary for me as cutting downon sugar.
Crucial.
Physically.
Psychically.
Caring for myself is notself-indulgence.
It is self preservation.
And that is an act of politicalwarfare.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of
the therapist connect podcast.
My name is Dr.
Peter Blundell.
And today we have anotherspecial episode for you based on
the topic of self care.
And we've recently did anotherepisode like this based on
silence in therapy.
And the episode was so popularthat I thought I would do it
again, but with a differenttopic.
So in the episode, we collatedthe answers from all of our
(01:07):
different guests around thespecific topic, and then collate
them together in one episode.
So in this episode, I'm going toexplore the subject of self care
from different therapistsperspectives.
And before I do that, I justwants to give a bit of an
overview of this concept of selfcare.
From some of the literature thatI've been reading around this
particular topic, this is notextensive, but just some of the
(01:29):
articles that I've read recentlyaround the topic of self care.
I'll include the link to thesein the show notes.
So in this first article byMandip Auija and Manjiulaa
Narasimhan theydiscussed thehistory of the concept of self
care within the medicalprofession in their article
called the art of medicine, thecycling of self care through
history.
(01:50):
Now in their article, theyhighlight how self-care is not a
new practice, but it's somethingthat has been established in
many age communities andcivilizations for millennia.
Mandip and Manjulaa state,modern medicine itself born
within a cultural and politicalframework, belonging to a
specific time place andworldview.
Which sorts of universalprinciples that could be applied
(02:12):
to all peoples and societies.
It also served as a tool duringEuropean colonization, enabling
expansion beyond its point oforigin.
And establishing a new hierarchyof knowledge that would impact
individual and communalindigenous care practices.
End quote.
What they're talking about herein this article is that the
(02:33):
knowledge of self-care practicesthat was built up over many
millennia within groups andcommunities was completely
devalued by the advances ofmodern medicine across Western
civilizations.
Now Mandeep and Manjulaa alsohighlights how motivations to
practice self-care are manifold,including intrinsic drives for
(02:54):
self-reliance and as a reactionto systematic disempowerment of
individuals in modern medicalinstitutions.
And joining the 1970s in the USAgrowing critiques of modern
medicine led to self care,becoming a political act of body
sovereignty End quote.
And I'm going to come back tothis idea of self care as a
(03:14):
liberatory practice later on inthe podcast.
So as the philosopher, AnthonyWestern states, when the need
for self care rises out ofsystematic and institutional
failures and existing systems.
It implies a collective struggletaking place alongside other
critiques of disempowerment ofindividuals by contemporary
institutions and professions.
(03:37):
So it seems to me that all thetherapists in this episode are
approaching self-care from verydifferent perspectives.
i.e., thinking about their ownway to self care.
But that the commonality acrossthese accounts is finding a way
to look after themselves withina system and society that
doesn't always support or enableit.
So in this first clip I talk toDianne Sotomey I originally
(04:00):
released an episode with her inSeptember, 2023, which you can
go back and listen to if you'dlike to find out more about her.
Diane is an author.
Her book, check your thoughts.
Your life depends on it.
How your thoughts shape youreveryday life and who you become
is a best seller.
Dianne is a a UK CP, registeredpsychotherapist, clinical
supervisor and trainer.
(04:21):
And here Diane delve deeper intothe theme of individuality.
When thinking about self care.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your experience or your
ideas about therapists orsupervisors self care and what
we might need to do to sustain ahealthy therapy practice?
I feel like the insights in yourbook might help with some of
this.
Dianne Sotomey (04:43):
Yes and also I think as a psychotherapist I do
feel that it's so important thatwe cultivate some kind of Daily
practice as part of our selfcare, because I think we already
have life happening.
Then you have clients you'reworking with.
(05:05):
Sometimes you can walk away withsome of their stuff, and if you
don't have a daily practicewhere you can really sit and be
with you and reflect and connectwith who you are, you can be
connecting to all sorts.
Thanks.
And just operating in thisfrantic, but because it can feel
(05:27):
like a, like you're normal, youdon't realize how much you're
carrying other people's thoughtswith you.
But when we have some kind of adaily practice where we have to
stop and reflect and go deep andconnect with ourselves, you
don't notice these things.
And I think it's so important,especially with the kind of work
(05:48):
that we do.
For some, it will be, for some,it might be just paying
attention on a moment by momentbasis, just thinking about what
you're thinking about.
For others, it might be ameditative practice.
For some, it might be, doingyour yoga and using it.
I think there are so many formsand everyone, it will be useful
(06:10):
for everyone to figure out whatit is they gravitate towards,
but I think having some form ofdaily practice is essential for
self care.
Dr Peter Blundell (06:20):
I think that's really important and I
think I like what you're sayingthere in terms of, it's all
unique to each of usindividually, when you try and
put in practices that don'tresonate with you or don't fit
into your life or whatever itis, you can almost feel like I'm
failing at this as well as that.
But actually if you findsomething that works for you but
(06:40):
I think that goes back tosomething we were talking about
earlier, which is understandingyourself first, To know what
works and really fostering thatunderstanding.
Dianne Sotomey (06:50):
That's it.
That's it.
Because otherwise, if we're notat our best forms, we're going
in and I just think people arepaying us to get the best for
themselves.
So we need to be in tip topshape and whatever it takes to
keep us in tip top shape,because sometimes doing this You
(07:12):
can sometimes do it in yoursleep, if not literally.
Yeah.
But you, it, you can, it canbecome, it's keeping it fresh
and keeping it, yeah.
I think it's so importantbecause without that, I'd just
be autopilot.
Dr Peter Blundell (07:25):
Yeah.
And to keep it fresh, you needto be fresh.
Dianne Sotomey (07:28):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Otherwise we're being led.
By automation.
And because we're, we might begood at what we're doing.
We don't actually realize howsometimes we might not be as
present as we could be.
And this next clip, I chat toSam Hope.
Sam is a seasoned trainer,author, counselor, and
(07:50):
consultant with person centeredanti-oppressive values.
I originally spoke to them inJanuary, 2024.
Their book person centeredcounseling for trans and gender
diverse people is an excellentresource and is available from
Jessica Kingsley publishers.
Sam approach their discussion ofself-care from this perspective
of communities and interpersonalrelationships.
Sam Hope (08:15):
Okay.
Yeah I think the term self careis a really individualistic
concept.
And I'm not certain that it's aspossible as we think we are set
as pack animals.
I'm not sure where is capable ofthat sort of it almost.
Resonates with bootstrap theory,doesn't it?
(08:38):
You have to look after yourself.
I don't know.
I suspect that care iscollective and community and
relational like so much else's.
So for me, as a marginalizedtherapist looking after myself
as a practitioner has been verymuch based on finding
(09:00):
communities where I'm supportedwhere I have safety where I'm
not experiencing too manymicroaggressions for me to feel
in connection with the peoplearound me.
And yeah, for me.
Then, in terms of what I giveback to that ca caring for a
(09:22):
community, and Being communityoriented and putting something
into making spaces safer feelslike really feels like self care
if because it's a 360 thing forme.
Yes, obviously.
Baths with candles and eating,right?
(09:42):
And, I have a little, I'm quitemobility impaired, but I have a
little park that's just oppositemy home.
I'm pushing myself to get intothe park every day and shuffle
around.
Those are really importantaspects of self care, but
actually they're not nearly asimportant as those relational
things.
I think, just for our clients,the reason they come to therapy
(10:02):
is for relationship, right?
Because it is so transformative.
And I feel like.
It's really interesting we dosomething so relational but then
we forget that it's relationaland we individualize the idea of
therapy.
And I think that's dangerous andfor me self care is a very
individualized concept sorelational care.
Dr Peter Blundell (10:26):
relational care, rename the episode to
something like that.
But I think what's reallyimportant, I was thinking about
when Therapist Connect set upand in the middle of the
pandemic and so many therapistsworking in private practice or
in agencies even, and justworking on their own and not
having that community and peopleto talk to.
And how much of that I thinkwas.
(10:48):
probably missing before thepandemic and then becoming even
more emphasized throughout thepandemic.
And I think yeah, there'ssomething about us trying to do
all of this on our own.
And the kind of term self care,like you're saying, almost like
applying the blame to yourself,while you haven't looked after
yourself enough, when it'sactually what about looking
after each other?
Sam Hope (11:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I, I think I had a headstart with the pandemic because
I was already working online andI was always quite already quite
isolated as a disabled counselorfrom a marginalized identity.
So I had I already had toestablish those support networks
and many of them were onlinesupport networks.
So I.
(11:28):
personally thrived in thepandemic because they already
had those structures.
And yeah, but it's reallyimportant for people to have
those.
And also I think to value onlineconnection because, especially
those of us in private practice,we might not always have the
energy to get out and do thingsand meet people in person.
Actually, online connections areHugely beneficial and important
(11:52):
and we need not to see those aslesser because there's still
connections.
Dr Peter Blundell (11:56):
Absolutely.
And this next clip, I speak toChloe foster.
In their original episode, wetalked about email counseling
and alternative ways of workingas a therapist.
These topics tied in withChloe's discussion of self care,
which focused on how to manageyour practice as a therapist in
private practice.
Chloe Foster (12:13):
Yeah, I was really thinking about this one because
I was thinking back to my earlydays in private practice and I
found self care quite hard andputting in the boundaries and I
think it's because I'm a verydetermined.
person.
So it's quite hard for me torest and just wanting to take on
more and more.
(12:33):
So I was, I was working too manyevenings, too many clients, lots
of low cost.
I just, there was just so muchgoing on and I was just
determined to make it work, butI wasn't really making it work
because I was just doing toomuch really.
Nowadays, I've really strippedthings back and thought about
(12:53):
what I want my week to look likeand how do I want to work.
And I think that for me, and thetips I would give to my younger
self or counsellors who arenewly qualified around self care
would be to think reallycarefully about your boundaries.
And to be really clear toyourself of your boundaries, but
(13:14):
also to your clients around yourboundaries.
I've always been pretty good atbeing clear around boundaries
with clients and that'sthankfully not been too
difficult, but the boundariesfor myself is harder.
So for example, I don't workevenings anymore.
I do a four day week and I'vegot set times like that I'll
(13:36):
offer to clients.
And because I do a lot of emailcounselling, I can juggle my
diary to fit that.
what works for me at specifictimes and gives me so much
flexibility.
So yeah, I think it's working somuch better for me and just
taking, trying to dial back abit and not go too fast with
(13:59):
everything.
Although I'm definitely not anexpert at it because I have to
constantly tell myself if I keepgetting ideas Nope, that's going
to have to be.
For a later date or whenever.
I know, because I've always gotso many things that I want to
do.
And never enough energy or time.
Dr Peter Blundell (14:16):
I can totally relate to that.
I totally relate to it.
Saying no can be the mostdifficult thing.
You're not saying no becauseit's an awful idea.
It's difficult to say no becauseit's a fantastic project or
thing that you want to getinvolved with.
But it sounds like yourboundaries just through the
whole conversation that we'vetalked about has been an
evolution in terms of Thedifferent projects and things
(14:36):
you've been involved with.
And it sounds like you've founda bit more of a nice balance.
Yeah,
Chloe Foster (14:42):
I definitely feel like although things are
definitely not perfect,everyone, obviously, including
counselors could be better atself care.
But.
It's much better than it was,I'm, I feel I can pace myself, I
can make sure I'm getting enoughbreaks, taking enough annual
leave, not working weekends,things like that.
(15:03):
And maybe that's because I'm abit more confident in myself and
a bit more established, 10 yearson, I feel more oh, I'm not
scared that there's not going tobe another client coming along,
so I don't feel so scared to sayno or to refer on, which maybe I
would have done.
In fact, definitely I would havedone in the early days, to be
like, Oh, I'm not going to getenough clients.
(15:26):
So I think that it's theconfidence has grown.
And I would like to hope thathappens to most of us with time.
Dr Peter Blundell (15:32):
In my discussion with Maxine Walsh.
She also wants to be honestabout some of the difficulties
she faced as a therapist inprivate practice.
And these discussionsinterlinked with the topics we
talked about, in her originalepisodes in October, 2023.
Maxine is a therapist in privatepractice and a member of the
Irish association of counselorsand psychotherapists.
Maxine Walsh (15:52):
That's an interesting question.
Like you're talking aboutprobably the silence piece.
And the self-care piece isprobably the two things that I
would most talk about insupervision.
Dr Peter Blundell (16:07):
that's fascinating.
Maxine Walsh (16:10):
Be because self-care for me has been a
journey.
That's, that I'm still on It'sit's, it's essential.
It's essential.
And I think a lot of us aren'tvery good at it.
I'm gonna put my hand up and saythat it's definitely something
that I have struggled with too.
(16:32):
Self care and what it is, andthat this is one of the things I
notice about social media isthat there's a lot of people on
social media therapists andcoaches and influencers who talk
about self-care.
And what they're talking aboutis what self-care is for them.
(16:54):
Not what self care is foreverybody else, because it is
really unique to everyone.
And I, for me, what self careis, taking the time every day to
ask myself what I need, and thengiving myself what I need.
And some days that can be, youneed to pay your bills.
Dr Peter Blundell (17:15):
I think that's really important.
And one of the reasons I want toask this question was because I
agree with what you're saying interms of there's so much advice
about this is what self carelooks like.
And actually we can almost likeberate ourselves for oh, I'm not
doing that.
So I'm not looking after myselfor I'm not doing this.
But actually, as you say, selfcare is different for everybody.
(17:39):
And that can look verydifferent.
And as you say.
It might be that you need to payyour bills.
And that's what self care is,yeah.
So that extra client that youneed to take on, yes.
Might be really important foryou.
I think it's also reallyinteresting as well, that idea
of self care in terms of, almostfeels like an activity that we
need to do, but it's one of thethings that I've always thought
(18:00):
about Is it also about therelationship that we have with
ourselves?
So we're always talking aboutbeing in relationship with
clients and other professionals,but like what relationship do we
have with ourself in terms ofhow we care for ourselves?
Which I think again, that'sgoing to look differently for
different people.
Maxine Walsh (18:15):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think because, I wasthinking there last week about,
what counselling is, what typeof therapy is, and It is about
for, I think a lot of it, a lotof it is about holding clients
hands as they discoverthemselves.
(18:37):
And so if we're not there, ifwe're not also on that journey
of discovering ourselves, thenhow can we adequately support a
client who is on that journeytoo,
Dr Peter Blundell (18:49):
yeah.
And I think it can be scary fortherapists sometimes to admit
that.
They haven't taken care ofthemselves or that they're,
they've got difficulties thatthey need to work through, but I
think it's really important thatwe are able to do that and take
it to supervision or therapy orwhatever area of support that we
need to.
No, I completely agree.
And this next clip.
Which is way back from November20 23.
(19:11):
I interviewed Dr.
Mish Seabrook, who offers sometop tips when thinking about
self care.
Mish office therapy,supervision, training, and
consultancy.
And now it's coaching to ourskills and serving others.
She has a specialist interest insupervision and resilience,
which obviously seems quitepertinent to the topic of self
care.
(19:31):
And she founded the supervisionInstitute where she shares
knowledge and offers CPD andsupport about supervision.
I'm wondering, are you, couldyou give us maybe like a top tip
for if people want to thinkabout self care either as a
therapist or as a supervisor tosustain their practice to keep
it healthy
Dr Mish Seabrook (19:48):
if I knew that.
I yeah, it's the chip.
It's the balance is reallytricky.
Yeah.
And I think there's somethingabout being honest where you are
with that.
I'm not being afraid to behonest with peers or be honest
in supervision about where youreally are.
(20:12):
And my main takeaway from.
My, my phrase that kind ofsummed up my research in it was,
how are you?
And it was such a simplequestion, but actually there's
so many layers to that.
So think about your relationshipwith looking after yourself.
What's that like?
And I think it's a constantevaluation of it going, am I
being kind to myself?
(20:33):
Cause I'm feeling a bit.
rubbish today about lookingafter myself or what time do I
have to really look aftermyself?
Or is it, am I doing it as anadd on?
Is it on my to do list and itkeeps going further and further
down or have I integrated thisas part of my everyday non
negotiable commitment?
(20:53):
And we sit at a really trickyplace as therapists in terms of
we have to talk about lookingafter selves a lot, but I
actually think we should do iteven more than we need to.
And knowing when to dial it up abit more those kind of pinch
points in our work or in ourlife, life happens.
(21:14):
We are only human.
Things get in the way.
Being able to be kind toourselves when things do get in
the way and not tell ourselvesoff too much for being these
perfect, again, inverted commasversions of ourselves, just
allow yourself to be vulnerable.
Dr Peter Blundell (21:31):
I love that.
I was thinking about the idea oflike self care being another
tip, but the thing on your listOh, I haven't done self care.
So it's another thing to beatyourself up about.
But also how you phrased itearlier on when you were talking
about, actually it's a subtledifference in language, but
actually could make a bigdifference in terms of rather
than just self care, thinkingabout the relationship that you
have with yourself.
Dianne Sotomey (21:51):
Yeah.
And we often think ethicallyabout what is the impact on the
client and putting the clientsat the center of our work.
But I'd also argue, hang on aminute, unless we're putting
ourselves at the center of ourwork, then we can't be there for
anyone else.
How are you going to be able toshow up for anyone if you're not
being kind to yourself as well?
(22:11):
And I think sometimes we havethose, that voice, that, that
loud, critical voice of notbeing good enough.
And for some of us that do havethat voice it's sometimes it's
hard.
We have to find a way to disruptit.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:25):
Yeah, it's that old metaphor, isn't it?
Of the oxygen mask in the plane.
Got to put it on yourself first.
Dr Mish Seabrook (22:31):
Yeah, or as the great RuPaul would say, How
the hell are you going to loveanyone else when you can't love
yourself, we have to really lookat that and really examine that
relationship.
And know that it's movable.
We don't get it right.
Like our learning, it's not adone deal.
It's a constant evolution.
Dr Peter Blundell (22:50):
And I think there's something there about
being really mindful about howwe look after ourselves and not
just, Oh, I've had, I've seenthree clients in a row.
I'm going to take, 10 minutesfor myself because that's,
Dr Mish Seabrook (23:01):
Yeah, self care.
Dr Peter Blundell (23:02):
That's self care and I've ticked it off for
today.
Dr Mish Seabrook (23:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And knowing what it means foryou as an individual in terms
of, is it about, Yeah.
Is it about peace?
Is it about energy?
Is it about moving?
Is it about sitting down?
Is it, and what can you do?
Whether that's physically orfinancially or what can you do
and what you might want to do.
They may be quite differentthings, but just really
(23:28):
attending to what do I needright, right now in this moment.
And sometimes for me, it will beabout blasting loud music and
singing along.
And sometimes it will be like, Ijust need absolute silence.
And they're both equally asreplenishing for different
reasons.
Dr Peter Blundell (23:43):
And I think sometimes sitting with that,
maybe anxiety of something notbeing done, maybe, going, okay,
but actually, if I approach it,once I've had a rest or a break
or whatever, actually, maybe Imight do the task better as well
as looking after myself,potentially.
Tom Smithson opens up aboutstarting up in private practice.
I'm reflecting on how we treatourselves when in
self-employment and why thatmight be different to how we
(24:06):
expect to be treated asemployees.
Tom sets up new horizoncounseling in 2018.
Is a BAC P registered therapist,supervisor and tutor with many
years of extensive therapeuticexperience.
And he specializes in workingwith people from the LGBTQIA+.
Community.
Tom Smithson (24:24):
I think links back massively to the community, the
connection with people, almostforcing yourself to put yourself
out there and and connect withpeople.
And I know that's difficult.
I say that as an introvert.
It's one of my worst things ofhaving to meet new people, but
it's always worth the risk.
(24:44):
Even if you don't get on withsomeone, it's still worth the
risk that you put yourself outthere.
So I think saying, I am going totry and connect with a few
people.
I want to have a handful ofpeople that I can speak to if I
need to.
So that's all you need.
It's not about having a wholegroup of people.
It's just having a few peoplethat you can go to if you need
to.
And alongside that, making surethat you look after yourself and
(25:07):
take time off.
I've been guilty of this in thepast where I've been too scared
to take time off.
Or I've been worried aboutclients or I've been worried
about money or I've been all ofthese sort of things.
And I've really, it's beenbecome a debate about taking
time off.
That was only for a few years tobe fair.
And now it's actually, if youwere working for an
organization, you would haveyour 28 days.
And You need to have 28 days.
(25:28):
And if you're not having 28days, what's going on?
And that's something forsupervision.
Now, I try to tally up my timeoff.
And I know that's difficult todo.
Again, that comes from aprivilege of being having a that
financial stability.
But again, that's something thatyou can work towards as well in
terms of preparing yourself,saving up all of these sort of
things.
Yeah, making sure you have yourtime off.
Dr Peter Blundell (25:46):
I think that's good advice.
I was thinking about, I wonderwhether there's something about
being self employed and alsoworking on your own because I
hear other kind of people whoare self employed do the same
fear of taking time off, beenlike they've always got a kind
of working and not been able totake that break.
And I was interested as wellthat you said, actually for a
couple of years that youstruggled to take that time off
(26:08):
and I was wondering is thatmaybe when you were had started
in private practice and wereworried, Oh isn't it?
Is this stable?
Like my income and kind of,yeah.
Tom Smithson (26:17):
Yeah.
That was a huge part of it.
I think one part of it was, Idon't want to miss anything.
What if I get an inquiry or whatif someone wants an appointment
or something.
And I hate bringing it back tomoney, but that is the world we
live in.
And it was very much a case of,I was paying My rent for where I
live and the rent for my office.
And it was like, if I take timeoff, will I be able to pay my
rent?
And I think in a weird kind of,in a, Dark sort of way I think
(26:40):
that's an important part of theprocess, I would have had, I
would have hated it to be abreeze.
But that was something that heldme back from taking time off at
times.
Fortunately, because my workloadwasn't too heavy, never got to
the point where I felt like Icaused any harm but I think that
is a risk where if I hadn't.
If things hadn't changed for meand I'd not take any time off,
(27:01):
then that would have had animpact on my clients.
I managed to dodge that bullet.
But I think that's a real riskwhen you're like I either go to
work and pay my rent or I taketime off and then worry about
not paying my rent.
Yeah, it feels like stress.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Peter Blundell (27:16):
And that's why I think I was thinking about
those first few years that maybeit's, temporarily as you're
starting your business that youtake less leave, but as maybe
you get to a practice where yourealize actually this I'm
sustaining this and it's okay,not just using those practices
that have got you through in thepast.
Tom Smithson (27:32):
Yeah, exactly.
Actually, I can take time offnow without kind of everything
falling apart.
Yeah, I suppose stopping andtaking a moment to actually ask
yourself, when's the last time Ihad a break?
Do I need one?
Dr Peter Blundell (27:47):
And this last clip I talked to Ellis J.
Johnson.
Ellis is a qualifiedpsychodynamic psychotherapeutic
counselor, and a queer transmanof color.
He delivers training tocounselors in working
affirmatively around gender andalso delivers training in trans
awareness and anti-racistpractice.
To organizations around thecountry and also
internationally.
(28:09):
And our discussion, we touch onthe structural impact of
capitalism and old self-carepractices.
And thinking about liberation,very principles for self-care.
Ellis J Johnson (28:16):
So this is something I think about a lot as
somebody who has, burnt out inthe past and I'm very, tried to
be very careful now about takingcare of myself and it's an
ongoing challenge, right?
I think it's very easy to slipback into ways of working that
are not sustainable.
So one method that I've foundhas worked really well for me is
(28:39):
to schedule breaks, maybe more,even more often than I think I
need them.
So at the moment, I'll work forabout 6 weeks or 7 weeks and
have a break every, yeah, aboutevery 6 or 7 weeks of one week.
And then try and have some timeoff in the summer as well, if I
can.
And I was really terrified aboutdoing that as somebody who is
(28:59):
used to working every hour, Godsends kind of thing.
It was really scary for me tosay actually, I need, this is
maybe what I need.
So I did that last year and itworked really well.
And, the year before I wasgetting ill all the time the
impacts of COVID and all sortsof things.
And the predictability of it.
Actually was, has worked reallywell for me.
(29:19):
And from what I can see, it'sworked quite well for clients as
well.
So having to cancel last minute,in, in the last year, a couple
of years ago and having to movesessions all the time, it's just
unsustainable way to work andparticularly as a psychodynamic
practitioner who, I like to havemy clients at the same time
every week, without movingaround at all, if I can help it,
(29:40):
it was breaking my heart reallyto have to.
To keep moving things.
So we have a level ofpredictability now.
And that seems to, yeah, Inoticed that.
Yeah clients seem to respondwell to that because we have
more breaks.
More often, there seems to bealmost like a different kind of
(30:01):
use of the break as well.
So clients often coming back andbeing like, okay, I knew I was
going to have that time tointegrate the things we've been
thinking about to, to see wherethe themes have come up in the
real world a little bit more.
So I'm noticing actually thatthe break as it started to
become an even more integralpart of the work.
And we, as always we work withit, we work with it, even like I
(30:24):
said earlier, if I've got adifferent glass from last week,
I can, I'll manage that and I'llsee if it pops, it'll come up.
It's never has done so far.
Um, you work with it.
So I think I also do a lot ofsupervision for other people
working in the charity sector atthe moment.
So lots of differentorganizations.
So big part of that workactually is, saying to people
(30:47):
you are the priority, like yourlongevity, making this work
sustainable is my priority.
Um, so that's.
And it's sometimes a bit likeyeah, it's, it can be very
difficult to help people to seethat they need to take care of
themselves, actually is whatI've noticed, really difficult.
Dr Peter Blundell (31:03):
I think when you were talking, I was thinking
about capitalism, and the, justthe drive for more and more, and
how it's counter cultural at themoment, almost, to put in those
breaks and say, actually, I'mresting so I can sustain myself
rather than keep growing moreand more.
Ellis J Johnson (31:18):
Yeah, and that's the thing of, private
practice as well, isn't it?
You haven't got any safety nets.
And I think for me also, there'sa class thing here, being a
working class person, it is youwork, you go to work and you
work as much as you can and ashard as you can, it's that kind
of scarcity mindset.
And having to work against thatis, is quite difficult.
But I think, as I said earlier,if I hadn't have had that kind
(31:41):
of burnout I wouldn't haveunderstood actually that it's
not negotiable.
It's not negotiable for me towork 60 hours a week.
Because my body will stopworking, even if my mind is
still going, which it was at thetime, I didn't feel depressed.
I didn't feel overwhelmed.
I thought I was fine, but mybody just stopped.
It just stopped.
I tried to talk about that topeople as much as possible to
(32:03):
say, you might not see it comein.
Your barometer will be skewed atthis point.
So what feels like having areally big break is probably
actually just completely.
normal and natural, when I wasat my worst kind of working so
much, I remember I couldn'ttake, I couldn't fathom taking
an hour off to go to thedoctors.
I was just like, I, there's noway I could leave work for an
(32:25):
hour.
I just cannot do it.
So then not working for twoweeks was like, Oh my God, this
is outrageous.
Then turned into six months andthat just, it broke the
barometer for me.
I was like, okay, I needwhatever I need.
Actually, at this point, andthat's, I try to talk about it
as much as possible to say, ifyou want to be doing this work
(32:47):
longer term, you have to havestrategies in place and
connection also, I think is abig one.
Dr Peter Blundell (32:53):
It sounds like your body was giving you
the message, take a break.
Ellis J Johnson (32:56):
Yeah, it was this kind of, it's that idea of
my body took a break because itwanted to take a break.
I didn't have a say in it.
Do you know, take care ofyourself or your body will take
care of itself for you.
Dr Peter Blundell (33:07):
I was interested in hearing you talk
about from a working classbackground, because I'm from a
working class background, and atone point I realized that when
am I going to get to the pointwhere I say, oh it's okay now,
you've done not enough, youdon't have to keep going and
going and going, no one everteaches you that bit.
Ellis J Johnson (33:22):
Actually people teach you the opposite,
particularly again, if you'refrom working class background or
have a background of poverty,it's the opposite.
It's, you better keep goingbecause if you don't, you're You
know, we don't know what's,what's around the corner.
And so it's really profoundlearning.
And I think this is where the,we have to engage with all these
(33:43):
intersections of identity.
We have to acknowledge that it'snot the same for working class
therapists or students.
It's not the same for black andbrown students as it is for
white students.
And it's certainly not the samefor trans students as it is for
non trans students.
Dr Peter Blundell (34:01):
I really want to thank all of the guests for
this episode of the podcast.
Hope it has given therapistssome thought and reflections
around their own self-carepractices.
And I hope you enjoyed listeningto it as much as I did creating
it.
I wants to leave you with aquote from Audre Lorde taken
from her book, A Burst of Light: And Other Essays. (34:16):
undefined
Sometimes, I feel like I amliving on a different star from
the one I'm used to callinghome.
It has not been a steadyprogression.
I had to examine in my dreams aswell as in my immune function
tests, the devastating effectsof overextension.
(34:37):
Overextending myself is notstretching myself.
I had to accept how difficult itis to monitor the difference.
Necessary for me as cutting downon sugar.
Crucial.
Physically.
Psychically.
Caring for myself is notself-indulgence.
It is self preservation.
And that is an act of politicalwarfare.
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