September 3, 2025 • 35 mins
Episode Summary: Jennifer Tozer, librarian at Pueblo Community College in Colorado, shares how she created "Witch Trials: Accusation to Exoneration" - a comprehensive month-long educational program running throughout October. When traditional museum exhibits weren't available, Jennifer built her own visual displays from scratch, featuring poster exhibits, author presentations, virtual tours with the Salem Witch Museum, and discussions connecting historical witch trials to modern-day accusations.
For Educators: This episode offers practical inspiration for teachers looking to create engaging historical programming with limited budgets. Jennifer's approach demonstrates how to make distant history relevant to today's students while addressing misconceptions and encouraging critical thinking.
Program Details: "Witch Trials: Accusation to Exoneration" runs throughout October at Pueblo Community College Library, featuring interactive exhibits, scavenger hunts, and community presentations.
Perfect for history teachers, librarians, and educators interested in innovative programming that brings historical events to life for modern students.
Links
Buy the book A Salem Witch by Dan A Gagnon
Buy the book The Heretics Daughter by Kathleen Kent
Pueblo Community College's Humanities Newsletter with Witch Trials History Event Dates
The Thing About Salem Patreon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the thing about witchhunts.
I'm Josh Hutchinson. And I'm Sarah Jack.
Today we're talking with Jennifer Tozer, A librarian at
Bubble Community College in Colorado who has created
something truly special for her students and community this
fall. Jennifer has designed a
comprehensive educational program called Witch Trials
(00:23):
Accusation to Exoneration that runs throughout October.
What started as her personal fascination with witch trial
history has grown into an impressive month long series
featuring poster exhibits, author presentations, virtual
tours with the Salmon Witch Museum, and discussions about
modern witchcraft accusations. We love how Jennifer has tackled
(00:44):
the challenge of bringing this history to life when traditional
museum exhibits weren't available.
She's built everything from scratch, creating visual
displays that walk visitors through the Salem Witch Trials
while connecting them to ongoingissues of injustice today.
Let's hear how a librarians passion project is helping
bridge educational gaps and reduce stigma around both
(01:07):
historical and contemporary witch hunts.
Welcome to the Thing about WitchHunts podcast, Jennifer Tozer.
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining
us. Could you please tell us about
your work and expertise and whatyou've been working on?
(01:27):
Yeah, so I am a librarian. Currently I work at the Pueblo
Community College Library. I did work at the Public Library
for five years, so I have been in the library state for quite a
while. I'm new to the PCC library
though. At the college, we don't do as
much programming as we did at the Public Library, but I get to
(01:49):
do some of that. I also work with the students
one-on-one, help them with research.
I go into the classrooms and do orientations on the library,
what the library offers, that kind of thing.
And I do get to still do some programming.
And so that's where this comes in, yeah.
What should we know about Pueblo?
(02:10):
So Pueblo is a really kind of melting pot of people.
It's a very unique community, even though it's a pretty good
sized city, I guess you would call it.
It has a very small town feel. So there's a lot of people
who've been here their whole life.
It's very, I don't know, it's just very eclectic.
There's a lot going on. It's very Hispanic oriented.
(02:31):
The college is a Hispanic serving institution as well.
We have a huge Hispanic population here.
So yeah, just kind of a little bit of everything.
It's in the southern part of thestate.
So yes, it does get very hot. Yeah, my parents were Pueblo
residents. For. 15 years or so.
I hope I'm getting that number right.
My mom was a educator over at Colorado State Pueblo and so I
(02:54):
got to visit and spend time in Pueblo and yeah, it's amazing.
So I was really pleased when you.
Reached out to tell. Us about what you're doing,
which is what we're going to getto now, because there's such a
special place in my heart for Poblo and its history.
It's exciting. What inspired you to create your
(03:19):
fall programming that we're going to discuss here?
Really is just a lot of it was my own personal interest because
I'm new to this role and I bringa different experience from the
Public Library. I really wanted to start
creating different things for the students that weren't just
purely about their classes or megoing into the classroom and
(03:43):
talking about what the library can do.
I wanted some kind of just more like relief for the students, so
more fun things, different things.
I did some like stress relief yoga last semester, like around
finals time and just like different offerings that you
wouldn't really think about at the library.
But because I have a very eclectic background, so I am a
(04:03):
certified yoga instructor as well, I thought, well, why not
bring my interest into the school?
And I'm sure some students and some faculty and staff would
also be interested in it. And so I had asked my supervisor
if she would be OK if I just didsome different things this fall.
And she was like, go for it. You know, I mean, might as well
try it, right? I have always been fascinated
(04:24):
with witches, the witch trials, witch history, all of that.
And so that was just my first thought.
I also love October and Halloween and all things
Halloween. And so I knew I wanted to do
something around Halloween, but I wanted to keep it very
educational and historical and relevant.
And so that's why I went down this road.
(04:45):
And so one of the first steps you took was researching to see
where you could go and with yourplanning, what has that been
like? So it was interesting because I
thought because it was such a, you know, Salem witch trials are
such a huge topic, right? And they've been talked about.
I mean, I remember learning about it in high school.
We read The Crucible, that kind of thing.
(05:06):
So I've reached out to a couple different museums, the Salem
Witch Museum, Peabody Essex Museum.
I never say that the way Massachusetts people say.
I try my husband's from Massachusetts and he always
corrects my pronunciation. So they don't say Peabody, they
say Peabody. Anyways, I'm working on it.
But and some other museums that had had exhibits in the past,
(05:27):
but they, they didn't really have anything that was like a
travelling exhibit, which is pretty common nowadays.
And I figured they would have atleast something that I could
borrow for a limited time. Being an educational facility.
I also figured they'd probably be more open to loaning things.
But there really wasn't anythingout there.
Obviously there's not a lot of artifacts that survived from the
(05:48):
witch trials, but there's reallynot even any like replicas.
There's not a lot of informationother than some of the court
documents, which are very hard to read.
I'm sure you both are familiar with that.
But I think it's funny because they always say, oh, they don't
teach kids cursive nowadays, They're not going to be able to
read historical documents. And I'm like, I can read cursive
and I can't read historical documents.
(06:09):
They are very hard to decipher. So I thought, that's not really
what I was going for. I wanted more of a kind of a
visual and something that would keep the students interested and
entertained and they could go through and learn, but also have
these visual references. And there just really wasn't
anything. So I just decided to build it
from scratch. And I'd really love to hear more
(06:31):
about what you've built, what isin the program that, what are
the elements you put together? So because I wanted that visual
aspect, I decided to go with more of more like a poster
exhibit that you would walk through.
We've done a couple of these when I was at the Public Library
about Pueblo history or specifically there was one on
the steel mill. And so that was where I got my
(06:53):
inspiration. They had these like informative.
They were really big, but they were big posters and they would
have some photos, just put some information and so you could
walk through and go through the timeline, learn about different
things and come on the other end.
So it was almost like going through a museum, but really
it's just a poster presentation.But I do still want to have like
artifacts and some visual things.
(07:13):
We have some display cases. I also wanted to incorporate
that. And so as they're going through
there, there are different posters that I've designed on
different aspects about the witch trials.
I do focus on the sailing witch trials mostly, but then I do
talk about also the relevance today and what your organization
is doing, things that are still happening in the world today.
(07:34):
Because I we think Salem and we think it's, oh, it was forever
ago and what does that have to do with me?
And if you think about it, it really wasn't that long ago.
And these things still happen today.
And I just don't think a lot of people know that.
So I really wanted to start withsomething that people would be
interested in and might draw them in, but then also talk
about why it's still relevant, why it's important to talk about
(07:55):
these things and learn about these things and what's
happening today. And then I also wanted to just
distinguish between what people who identify as witches today
and what that means versus what we're talking about when we're
talking about Salem and how theywere thought witches literally
signed a contract with the deviland it was evil and it was all
of these things versus people who practice witchcraft today.
(08:18):
And the difference is there and the stigma still around that and
try to reduce some of that that stigma and that like fear around
it, I guess. And you've been to Salem.
Did that inspire you that you could share that message and
reduce the stigma? Yes.
So I have always wanted to visitSalem, but growing up, we didn't
(08:41):
do a lot of vacations. We definitely did not go north a
lot. My mom hates the cold.
So we would always go South whenwe went on vacation.
And so my husband is from Massachusetts, like I mentioned,
and I did finally get to go backthere and it took me 40 some
years. And so I thought, you know, why
not try to bring this to people who, like me, maybe couldn't get
(09:02):
there or haven't been able to make it there and just try to
bring part of that experience toPueblo and to people who maybe
can't get out. I know there's a lot, especially
here at public Community College, we have some lower
income students and families andthey can't always go to all of
these places. And so one of my goals when I
was at the Public Library, a lotof it was bridging that
(09:23):
technology gap, which we do hereas well.
But I also wanted to just bridgethat, that gap that not everyone
can have all of these experiences, but it's the next
best thing, right? So you're bringing it to the
students. And so that, that was my hope
with that. Oh, and get to go back to Salem
this fall. I'm actually going right before
this program. I'm going at the end of
(09:45):
September, beginning of October,I'm going to go back to Salem
only for a couple days because the trip was supposed to be to
Vermont for like some leaf peeping.
I've always wanted to go to Vermont in the fall and it's my
anniversary. And so we were going to go to
Vermont and I asked my husband, well begged basically, can we at
least go to Salem for a couple days?
So he just knows that's a thing.Now whenever we go to the East
(10:06):
Coast, we have to go to Salem. But it's very exciting because
I'll get to meet some of the people I've been working with
and tour some of the places thatI didn't get to go the first
time I went. And so I'm very excited.
And I understand that part of what you're bringing to the
students also involves a virtualtour with the Salem Witch
(10:27):
Museum. Yeah, yeah.
So the Salem Witch Museum does what they call, I think it's
like a virtual field trip kind of a thing.
And they had different aspects that they focus on.
And so the one that we chose, we, I worked with a professor
here who teaches criminal justice.
And so we thought that would be really fascinating to bring to
(10:49):
his students. And the criminal justice
professor and I decided to do one of the virtual tours that
they had the Salem witch trials,specifically 17th century law
and how that played into it. As you both know, there was a
lot of things that we don't accept now.
They were guilty until proven innocence and they accepted some
(11:11):
evidence that we would never consider today.
And so I think that'll be reallyinteresting for the criminal
justice students to learn about specifically.
And we were hoping to do more, but they are kind of expensive
to purchase and our budget for this was very limited, which is
again, why I'm building it myself.
And so we are doing a couple of those classes through the Salem
Witch Museum. And I've worked with the
(11:33):
education director there and shesounds great.
And I've watched a few that theyhave on their website.
So unfortunately, we're not ableto record these or share them,
but we are going to share them with the specific criminal
justice classes, which I think will be really meaningful for
them. And so that was why we decided
to go that route. But they have so many great
options like women's history around the witch trials and just
(11:55):
the witch trials in general. They have things on there for
younger audience, older audience, like it's great.
Fantastic. And can you tell us about the
other presentations that you arebringing in for the programming?
Yeah, well, because I'm a librarian, I thought I really
wanted to work with some authorswho have talked about this
topic. And so one of the authors I'm
(12:18):
working with is Kathleen Kent, and she wrote the book The
Heretics Daughter. It is not completely factual,
but it is like a historical fiction novel and it is all
about Martha Carrier, who is actually Kathleen Ken's
ancestor. So she wrote this book around
Martha Carrier, who was one of the convicted in the witch
(12:38):
trials and she was king. And so he wrote about that and
just the story she had grown up hearing about, but then tried to
really write it in a realistic way.
I don't read a lot of historicalfiction.
It's not really the genre I tendto gravitate to.
But I really enjoyed the book. And I lucked out because I was
following her on social media. And when I reached out, she was
(13:00):
like, I would love to come in person.
And I was like, oh, I thought she lived in Texas or wherever,
it said on her website. But she, I guess, had recently
moved to Colorado. So she's going to be here in
person, which is great. So I'm very excited about that
because it will be in person. I'm hoping that we get great
attendance for that. It's also going to be offered
hybrid, so like people can join virtually as well.
(13:21):
And we're going to give a signedbook away.
So if they do come in person, they'll get a chance to win her
book and she'll be here. We'll do like an author
reception after her presentationand she'll sign some books.
We don't have books for sale because we don't do that at the
library, but if they bring theirown book, they can get it
signed. And so that's going to be super
exciting. And then I also have another
(13:44):
author, Daniel Gagnon. He is actually a Massachusetts
resident, so his presentation isgonna be completely virtual.
But his book A Salem Witch, it'sall about Rebecca Nurse.
So it's basically like her biography, everything from where
she started out coming over to America and her whole life
story. And then it leads into how she
(14:06):
was accused of witchcraft and tried and eventually hanged and
then exonerated after. So it's like the whole story of
Rebecca Nurse. It is a fabulous.
I just finished it recently and I learned so much just that I
didn't even know. And I've been reading about the
Salem witch trials for so long and you learn something new
(14:26):
every book you read. And so he is going to be
presenting virtually and we alsohave a signed copy of his book
to give away. So that is going to be really
fun. And then Sarah, you are also
coming to present. Yeah.
And so that's going to be a lot of fun.
You talking about your organization, what you all do,
which I think is just great. And hopefully we can get some
interest in this and in the cause.
(14:49):
So yeah. Yeah.
Thank you so much for including us and giving us space in the
community to raise awareness about witchcraft accusations
today. That's awesome.
I'm really, I'm just so excited about everything that you're
putting together. And I know you're going to meet
Dan in a couple weeks when you go out there.
Yes. Hopefully, he said he would give
(15:11):
me a whole tour of the Rebecca Nurse homestead.
He's on the board of directors there.
He's in the Historical Society. Like it's just going to be so
great to kind of see Salem, but also have an expert there, like
tell, because before it was justme and my husband's not that
interested in it, right? So I'm just kind of trying to
figure things out and drag him along.
And so it'll be great to meet someone that I've been working
(15:32):
with virtually for months and hopefully get to tour.
I did not get to go to the Rebecca Nurse home instead the
first time I was there. So that'll be really exciting.
Yeah, we've been fortunate to have Dan as a guest on this
podcast a couple times. He came and spoke about Rebecca
Nurse and then George Jacobs senior who's also buried on that
(15:56):
property somewhere. Yeah, and I initially thought he
was a descendant of Rebecca Nurse, but I guess he isn't.
He's just very interested in it.But you, Sarah, are a descendant
of Rebecca Nurse. Is that right?
I am. I am.
And that's one of the things that propels my passion around
this topic. I too thought he was a
(16:19):
descendant. I remember I was, he was one of
our very first guests, like in the first dozen.
And I was so excited that we were going to be interviewing
him. And I just read his book and I
tweeted something out calling him a descendant.
And I got a sweet little privatemessage correcting me.
And I'm like, oh. Yeah.
So I think. That happens to him a lot, but
Rebecca is so meaningful to manypeople, and I have discovered
(16:43):
that even beyond Dan, there's. Other there's just.
So many non descendants that gravitate towards her story and
want to honor her. Yeah.
It's a really fascinating story.Like I said, I learned so much.
And honestly, I think you could write about each of the victims
a whole book because there's just so much.
(17:04):
They were all so different and there was so much involved that
I thought, well, how are they going to write a whole book
about one person in the witch trials?
But you know, each person's story I feel like really needs
to be told. I hope more of these come out
because I thought it was great and it was very educational,
really well researched. Obviously, Dan knows what he's
doing. He's a history about History was
(17:24):
not my Forte. So the fact that I'm even doing
this, I've learned so much and really it has kind of gotten me
interested in history. And so I'm hoping it does the
same for some of our students orfaculty staff.
I've mentioned it to a few of the staff here and I found out
things about them. Oh my gosh, my wife is super
into this. She's going to be so excited.
She's going to come to all your presentations.
(17:45):
And so things I really wouldn't have known about people just by
talking about this and getting that interest up.
So it's really kind of cool. As you've been learning about
the Salem Witch Trials, what aresome things that have surprised
you? Oh, gosh, I think one of the the
biggest things that's stuck withme is this story about Dorothy
(18:05):
Good, the little girl, Sarah Good's daughter, and I think
she's referred to as Dorcas a lot mistakenly.
They thought her name was Dorcas.
So she's usually called Dorcas in a lot of historical
documents. But I guess recently they've
discovered her name was Dorothy.She was only four or five years
old and accused of witchcraft and left in this prison even
after her mother was hanged and just affected her for her whole
(18:29):
life. There was a really good
presentation on the Salem Witch Museum because Rachel, who is
the director of education of theSalem Witch Museum, was one of
the ones that kind of discoveredmore about her and her whole
story and that she just had mental problems for the rest of
her life and just how it really affected her.
I think that story, I guess, being a mother really affected
(18:50):
me and I just, that was one of the craziest things I learned
that I had never even heard about.
And so that was definitely really interesting.
But there's been a few things that I learned I didn't know
about Spectral evidence. That was fascinating.
The fact that it was even accepted and someone could just
say they saw your spectre and you could be convicted on that.
(19:12):
Yeah. So many interesting things.
I tried to put them all into my exhibit, but I'm sure I probably
couldn't capture them all because there's just so many.
I'll probably have to do this now every year.
That would be awesome if you could.
Pull that off. With your energy and time, I
didn't know that people will be lining up to see the new
additions. I've really been impressed with
(19:34):
your resourcefulness of. Like you said, you.
Started from scratch and when wefirst connected in April, I was
so thrilled that you were interested in doing this.
And I was, you know, I hated knowing how difficult it was
going to be for you to build up some of your, the vision that
you had for this. And but you have done that
(19:57):
despite the barriers. And I really like what some of
your panels are focusing on. And you don't need to give
everything away, but do you wantto highlight any of the messages
from your storyboards? Yeah, I think my favorite one is
actually the first one I designed, which is the myths
versus the facts, because as I was researching it, I realize
(20:20):
there are still a lot of myths and misunderstandings around the
Salem witch trials. And so I try to highlight the
main. I think I've got about maybe 12,
maybe 13 on there that are pretty well known myths about
the Salem witch trials. And then I talk about the facts
that actually happened. One, as you know, is the ergot
(20:41):
theory where there was the fungus and the wheat.
And apparently that myth just will not die.
And so I'm going to try to help with that.
But there are others. People thought witches were
burned in Salem and they were not.
And so just just all of the different myths.
And again, I learned so much about it that I thought, why not
share this with others? So that's probably one of my
(21:03):
favorites. I also have the one about modern
witchcraft and witches, which I really enjoyed making as well.
I'm really fascinated by that. And just all of the, like I
said, the misconceptions around that and some of that fear and
stigma around it and just tryingto break that up.
I thought that was another really fun one to design, but
(21:24):
yeah, I have several in there. I just started trying to create
one that talks about what I learned from it, the most
fascinating things. So I do talk a little bit about
Dorothy. Good on that one.
And some other fascinating tidbits that I learned as I was
researching this. So I think it's going to be a
lot of fun. Been trying to make it a little
more interactive. I'm going to try to have some, I
(21:44):
don't know, thought questions onsome of the boards where after
they learn about this, they can take something away.
Just a question for them to ponder and think about.
And so I'm trying to incorporatethat as well as a lot of the
students when they come in can do a, almost like a scavenger
hunt we call it. But it's like a series of
(22:05):
questions and we'll just give them the handout and basically
all of the answers can be found in the exhibit.
But it gives them, you know, andthen then if they turn it back
in, they get entered to win a prize.
And so it gives them a little incentive to actually learn and
go through the exhibit and read all of the information instead
of just walking through and oh, this is cool and looking at the
(22:25):
pictures, but not really readingand learning anything.
And so we've found that that helps engage students a little
bit more and they get a little bit more out of the exhibit.
I'm working on that kind of simultaneously as I'm building
it. So yeah, it's a lot.
It is a lot, but it's it is justit's really going to ripple into
(22:46):
the student experience. That's one of the things about
witch trial history you have mentioned today.
It's their individual stories and we you just learn so much
understanding what happened to them in the courts and then
learning about their lives and it it's so applicable to things
we experienced today with injustice.
(23:08):
And so I'm just really grateful that you dug your heels in and
created this for your community.Is this available to the public
to stop in and look at? Yes.
So the exhibit will be open to the community, but because we
are a library and we're on a campus, we are also a quiet
(23:29):
study space. So even though we've advertised
in one of the local papers and we will invite the community in,
they will have to be respectful of their noise level.
But I'm also offering to set up some appointments after hours so
they can come through if maybe it's a larger group or they just
don't want to worry about the noise level.
Maybe they have younger childrenor like I said, like a group of
(23:50):
people who want to discuss it. I'm offering that.
And so I might be staying late afew nights this October.
So we'll see. But yeah, I wanted to open it to
the community, but I also didn'twant to impact the students and
their need for having a quiet study space on campus.
And so I was trying to find thatbalance.
I was just thinking how it mightbe interesting and maybe you're
already thinking about this, butwon't it be interesting to see
(24:14):
what questions come in maybe before they see the exhibit,
After they see the exhibit, are you going to find the same
question or comment coming up a lot?
Are you going to have a big variety that's like being on the
inside of this like you are, you're really going to get to
enjoy that aspect, that initial impact of the information on
(24:35):
the. Students, yeah, initially I was
worried too that we might get some blowback from the
community. I mean, anytime you mention
witches or witchcraft, again, there's that stigma and that
fear around it, which I'm tryingto get rid of, but you always
get a little bit of pushback from the community.
So I was a little worried about that.
But I made sure that I talked this over with the president of
the college and that he was on board with it and we were OK to
(24:59):
advertise to the community and bring the community in.
And I think just having that support from the administration
here at the college is great. And just knowing that some of
the events that we're going to put on might, might cause things
like that. Like October, there's also a
banned books week. We do get a lot of pushback
usually during that time about the banned books.
(25:21):
And so we're really trying to keep it very unbiased and
educational. And we're just saying these are
the facts even around the bannedbooks.
Like this is this is what is happening.
This is what it means to be a banned book because people
really don't understand what that means.
They're like, oh, but I can go buy it on Amazon and it's like,
well, it's been challenged. It's been pulled out of
libraries. That's what that means.
(25:41):
And we have some of the most challenged books.
But I also feel like this witchcraft it and witch trial
exhibit really fits in with thatbecause even though it's not a
banned book, it's just one of those things where there's that
kind of, I don't know, almost like that misunderstanding and
that fear and that really just not knowing enough about.
(26:02):
And whenever we don't know aboutsomething, we're afraid of it.
And that just causes a lot of problems.
And so we're really trying to keep it very educational, very
open minded. If people come in with
questions, I'd be more than happy to sit with them, talk to
them about these things. And so I think it's going to be,
I think it'll be well received. I was a little bit nervous, but
(26:23):
I do think keeping it that unbiased educational aspect, I
think it'll be well received in the community.
So I'm still excited, a little nervous, but excited.
Yeah, no, it's so fantastic. I love what you're doing there
and I love that you've designed it to be thought provoking.
(26:43):
So the people come through and they are looking for the answers
for the questions, and then at the end you're posing something
to them to get them thinking. What do you hope that visitors
take away from the experience? I guess just sort of what I took
away from it, building it, honestly, just maybe they
(27:04):
learned something new that was fascinating.
Maybe they get more interested in history, dive a little bit
deeper. You know, I just think maybe
having less of that fear around,which is witchcraft, some of the
things that they maybe didn't understand before the exhibit.
So even if just one person walksaway with that, I will be happy.
(27:28):
That's awesome. I was just thinking too, one of
the aspects of the Salem of trials which you and I haven't
discussed is there was banning of publications during that
year. Yes, I learned that in Dan's
book. And it was really fascinating
because it seemed very similar to things that are happening
(27:49):
today where they were only banning publications of like one
side of it. So if people were advocating for
the trials, they could publish, but if people were kind of
against the trials, they were not allowed to publish it.
And I thought, Oh my gosh, that's so fascinating.
You know, as we've learned, if you control the media, you can
control what people think and what people know.
(28:10):
And knowledge is really powerful.
And I think especially when people are trying to erase that
knowledge, it's really, really important to get it out there
even more and, you know, let people know the true facts and
the true history. And yeah, that's one of the
reasons I kind of love the wholestory around the Salem witch
(28:31):
trials. It's like my husband asked me,
he's like, why do you like Salem?
That's where they tongue witcheslike they're not.
It's not a good place. And I think for me it's it's one
of those places and one of thosetimes in American history where
we have actually, as Americans acknowledged that we messed up
and they came back after the fact.
They made restitutions. I mean, yeah, they're not going
(28:54):
to ever bring back the people that were accused and hung
butts. It's a start.
And that they could acknowledge their wrongs and put up a
memorial and come back after thefact and basically apologize and
say we were wrong and try to make it right.
Which I don't feel like as an American Society, we've done a
lot in our history. We really never came out and
(29:17):
talked about slavery. And a lot of people still try to
brush that under the rug or the Trail of Tears with the Native
Americans. And it's just, it's really sad.
And I think that's one of the things I love about Salem is
even if it's a horrible story, at least they came back after
the fact and could acknowledge their wrongdoing and like try to
(29:37):
make it right because you can't ever undo the past.
But if you don't acknowledge it and learn from it, like, what
are we doing right? So that's why I really love the
story of the trials and just thewhole, that's why I tried to
tell the whole story through up to when they were exonerated,
which I just recently learned about.
I think the last one in the Salem witch trials was recently
(30:01):
exonerated. And I had never heard of her.
Elizabeth Johnson Junior. And that it was a small class
that just put this petition together to try to get her
exonerated. She was like the last one.
And yeah, I thought that was just so fascinating that even a
couple years ago, we're still trying to make it right, but
they are trying to make it right.
And I think that's really important.
(30:21):
Yeah, that was just three years ago that Elizabeth Johnson
Junior got exonerated, the last person convicted of witchcraft
at Salem to be cleared. And then it was a year after
that that Connecticut absolved all the people who were accused
over there. And we're still seeing efforts
(30:43):
in other States and around the world to try.
Like you said, it's important just to acknowledge the past.
You have to acknowledge it before you can move forward.
Yeah, learning from it. So I love that you're
incorporating all that. I'm trying.
Experience, yeah. Yeah, it's, you've just created
(31:04):
this. It's such a complex story and
there's all these layers and youreally I just, I'm thinking of
it like a bouquet. You went out to this field of
wildflowers and you got just themost beautiful samples of that
field and put the story togetheror this bouquet together.
So I'm grateful. It's just a small part, but I'm
(31:26):
hoping it will at least lead into maybe them doing their own
research, learning a little bit more.
I really hope people read the books because I do think that is
going to be great where we were going to try to do like a little
book club on campus around that,but it was just too hard to get
everything together. But hopefully at least some of
the faculty or staff and students can read the book
(31:47):
beforehand and really have thosemeaningful conversations with
the authors too. Because I thought the books were
really just fantastic. And like I said, I learned so
much. And so I hope that others can do
that as well, even if it's afterthe fact, because we did order a
few of the books for our collection.
So even if that just interests them and then they check out the
book and read it, I think it'll be really great.
(32:10):
So. Yeah, I really love Kathleen
Kent's work, The Heretic's Daughter, and then there's a
sequel to it, The Wolves of Andover, and they're both so
entertaining. It's not an exact replica of the
history, but it puts you in thatsituation so you feel what the
characters would have experienced.
(32:32):
Yeah. And yeah, I thought it was.
It was well done where you do feel immersed in that time
period. It's written in that I don't
know what you would like, older dialect, and you do feel like
you're in the period, which is hard for some people to read.
I know if you go back and you read Jane Austen or Shakespeare,
you really have to start to get into it, but as you do, it does
(32:53):
put you in that time period and you're a little more immersed in
it. So I thought that was really
neat. I've read some other witch books
that are like that and they're written in that older English
and yeah, I think it's super fascinating, So fun.
What have you named the program and what?
Dates Is it running? So the exhibit is called Witch
(33:15):
trials Accusation to exoneration.
I feel like that title encompasses what I'm doing a
little bit better and it will beup the entire month of October
and any time that we're open. The library is open Monday
through Thursday, 8:00 to 5:00 and then Friday 8 to 3.
Anyone is welcome to come in. And then like I said, I will
take requests to do and after hours if needed.
(33:39):
I'm hoping most of those are on Friday after three majors.
I really don't want to stay hereuntil 9:00 PM every night, but
but I will because I do think it's important to get the
message out. And yeah, so the whole month of
October and then the specific talks that I have going on.
So Sarah, you will be here on Thursday, October 9th.
(33:59):
And then Kathleen Kent will be here on Thursday, October 16th.
And then we'll be virtual on. It's a Wednesday, I think
October 22nd, looking at my little calendar here.
And then I don't have any presentations the week of
Halloween because I always do what I like to call Halloween
where we dress up all week because I love Halloween.
(34:19):
I have so many costumes. I could probably dress up all
month, but I'm going to limit itto a week because not everyone
loves it as much as me. But I think it'll be really fun
this year. We're doing it more like a
spirit week, so hopefully the students will get involved in.
We have a crazy hair day and that kind of thing.
And then I do a costume contest and so students can come in.
We're going to do it on the 30thbecause there's not a lot of
(34:40):
classes here on Friday. So the 31st was out.
But on the 30th, if they come incostume, they can enter the
costume contest. Last year we had a a lot of fun
with that and so again, it's just going to be a whole fun
month and I'm just very excited to get the word out about the
Salem witch trials in general. But just, I love all things
witches, and that's what it's going to be about.
(35:02):
If you have a program about witch trials coming up, let us
know so we can spread the word and offer any support we're able
to. Please reach out to us if you
would like to develop a program and just don't know where to
start. Thank you for joining us.
Have a great today and a beautiful tomorrow.
Welcome to the thing about witchhunts.
I'm Josh Hutchinson. And I'm Sarah Jack.
Today we're talking with Jennifer Tozer, A librarian at
Bubble Community College in Colorado who has created
something truly special for her students and community this
fall. Jennifer has designed a
comprehensive educational program called Witch Trials
(00:23):
Accusation to Exoneration that runs throughout October.
What started as her personal fascination with witch trial
history has grown into an impressive month long series
featuring poster exhibits, author presentations, virtual
tours with the Salmon Witch Museum, and discussions about
modern witchcraft accusations. We love how Jennifer has tackled
(00:44):
the challenge of bringing this history to life when traditional
museum exhibits weren't available.
She's built everything from scratch, creating visual
displays that walk visitors through the Salem Witch Trials
while connecting them to ongoingissues of injustice today.
Let's hear how a librarians passion project is helping
bridge educational gaps and reduce stigma around both
(01:07):
historical and contemporary witch hunts.
Welcome to the Thing about WitchHunts podcast, Jennifer Tozer.
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining
us. Could you please tell us about
your work and expertise and whatyou've been working on?
(01:27):
Yeah, so I am a librarian. Currently I work at the Pueblo
Community College Library. I did work at the Public Library
for five years, so I have been in the library state for quite a
while. I'm new to the PCC library
though. At the college, we don't do as
much programming as we did at the Public Library, but I get to
(01:49):
do some of that. I also work with the students
one-on-one, help them with research.
I go into the classrooms and do orientations on the library,
what the library offers, that kind of thing.
And I do get to still do some programming.
And so that's where this comes in, yeah.
What should we know about Pueblo?
(02:10):
So Pueblo is a really kind of melting pot of people.
It's a very unique community, even though it's a pretty good
sized city, I guess you would call it.
It has a very small town feel. So there's a lot of people
who've been here their whole life.
It's very, I don't know, it's just very eclectic.
There's a lot going on. It's very Hispanic oriented.
(02:31):
The college is a Hispanic serving institution as well.
We have a huge Hispanic population here.
So yeah, just kind of a little bit of everything.
It's in the southern part of thestate.
So yes, it does get very hot. Yeah, my parents were Pueblo
residents. For. 15 years or so.
I hope I'm getting that number right.
My mom was a educator over at Colorado State Pueblo and so I
(02:54):
got to visit and spend time in Pueblo and yeah, it's amazing.
So I was really pleased when you.
Reached out to tell. Us about what you're doing,
which is what we're going to getto now, because there's such a
special place in my heart for Poblo and its history.
It's exciting. What inspired you to create your
(03:19):
fall programming that we're going to discuss here?
Really is just a lot of it was my own personal interest because
I'm new to this role and I bringa different experience from the
Public Library. I really wanted to start
creating different things for the students that weren't just
purely about their classes or megoing into the classroom and
(03:43):
talking about what the library can do.
I wanted some kind of just more like relief for the students, so
more fun things, different things.
I did some like stress relief yoga last semester, like around
finals time and just like different offerings that you
wouldn't really think about at the library.
But because I have a very eclectic background, so I am a
(04:03):
certified yoga instructor as well, I thought, well, why not
bring my interest into the school?
And I'm sure some students and some faculty and staff would
also be interested in it. And so I had asked my supervisor
if she would be OK if I just didsome different things this fall.
And she was like, go for it. You know, I mean, might as well
try it, right? I have always been fascinated
(04:24):
with witches, the witch trials, witch history, all of that.
And so that was just my first thought.
I also love October and Halloween and all things
Halloween. And so I knew I wanted to do
something around Halloween, but I wanted to keep it very
educational and historical and relevant.
And so that's why I went down this road.
(04:45):
And so one of the first steps you took was researching to see
where you could go and with yourplanning, what has that been
like? So it was interesting because I
thought because it was such a, you know, Salem witch trials are
such a huge topic, right? And they've been talked about.
I mean, I remember learning about it in high school.
We read The Crucible, that kind of thing.
(05:06):
So I've reached out to a couple different museums, the Salem
Witch Museum, Peabody Essex Museum.
I never say that the way Massachusetts people say.
I try my husband's from Massachusetts and he always
corrects my pronunciation. So they don't say Peabody, they
say Peabody. Anyways, I'm working on it.
But and some other museums that had had exhibits in the past,
(05:27):
but they, they didn't really have anything that was like a
travelling exhibit, which is pretty common nowadays.
And I figured they would have atleast something that I could
borrow for a limited time. Being an educational facility.
I also figured they'd probably be more open to loaning things.
But there really wasn't anythingout there.
Obviously there's not a lot of artifacts that survived from the
(05:48):
witch trials, but there's reallynot even any like replicas.
There's not a lot of informationother than some of the court
documents, which are very hard to read.
I'm sure you both are familiar with that.
But I think it's funny because they always say, oh, they don't
teach kids cursive nowadays, They're not going to be able to
read historical documents. And I'm like, I can read cursive
and I can't read historical documents.
(06:09):
They are very hard to decipher. So I thought, that's not really
what I was going for. I wanted more of a kind of a
visual and something that would keep the students interested and
entertained and they could go through and learn, but also have
these visual references. And there just really wasn't
anything. So I just decided to build it
from scratch. And I'd really love to hear more
(06:31):
about what you've built, what isin the program that, what are
the elements you put together? So because I wanted that visual
aspect, I decided to go with more of more like a poster
exhibit that you would walk through.
We've done a couple of these when I was at the Public Library
about Pueblo history or specifically there was one on
the steel mill. And so that was where I got my
(06:53):
inspiration. They had these like informative.
They were really big, but they were big posters and they would
have some photos, just put some information and so you could
walk through and go through the timeline, learn about different
things and come on the other end.
So it was almost like going through a museum, but really
it's just a poster presentation.But I do still want to have like
artifacts and some visual things.
(07:13):
We have some display cases. I also wanted to incorporate
that. And so as they're going through
there, there are different posters that I've designed on
different aspects about the witch trials.
I do focus on the sailing witch trials mostly, but then I do
talk about also the relevance today and what your organization
is doing, things that are still happening in the world today.
(07:34):
Because I we think Salem and we think it's, oh, it was forever
ago and what does that have to do with me?
And if you think about it, it really wasn't that long ago.
And these things still happen today.
And I just don't think a lot of people know that.
So I really wanted to start withsomething that people would be
interested in and might draw them in, but then also talk
about why it's still relevant, why it's important to talk about
(07:55):
these things and learn about these things and what's
happening today. And then I also wanted to just
distinguish between what people who identify as witches today
and what that means versus what we're talking about when we're
talking about Salem and how theywere thought witches literally
signed a contract with the deviland it was evil and it was all
of these things versus people who practice witchcraft today.
(08:18):
And the difference is there and the stigma still around that and
try to reduce some of that that stigma and that like fear around
it, I guess. And you've been to Salem.
Did that inspire you that you could share that message and
reduce the stigma? Yes.
So I have always wanted to visitSalem, but growing up, we didn't
(08:41):
do a lot of vacations. We definitely did not go north a
lot. My mom hates the cold.
So we would always go South whenwe went on vacation.
And so my husband is from Massachusetts, like I mentioned,
and I did finally get to go backthere and it took me 40 some
years. And so I thought, you know, why
not try to bring this to people who, like me, maybe couldn't get
(09:02):
there or haven't been able to make it there and just try to
bring part of that experience toPueblo and to people who maybe
can't get out. I know there's a lot, especially
here at public Community College, we have some lower
income students and families andthey can't always go to all of
these places. And so one of my goals when I
was at the Public Library, a lotof it was bridging that
(09:23):
technology gap, which we do hereas well.
But I also wanted to just bridgethat, that gap that not everyone
can have all of these experiences, but it's the next
best thing, right? So you're bringing it to the
students. And so that, that was my hope
with that. Oh, and get to go back to Salem
this fall. I'm actually going right before
this program. I'm going at the end of
(09:45):
September, beginning of October,I'm going to go back to Salem
only for a couple days because the trip was supposed to be to
Vermont for like some leaf peeping.
I've always wanted to go to Vermont in the fall and it's my
anniversary. And so we were going to go to
Vermont and I asked my husband, well begged basically, can we at
least go to Salem for a couple days?
So he just knows that's a thing.Now whenever we go to the East
(10:06):
Coast, we have to go to Salem. But it's very exciting because
I'll get to meet some of the people I've been working with
and tour some of the places thatI didn't get to go the first
time I went. And so I'm very excited.
And I understand that part of what you're bringing to the
students also involves a virtualtour with the Salem Witch
(10:27):
Museum. Yeah, yeah.
So the Salem Witch Museum does what they call, I think it's
like a virtual field trip kind of a thing.
And they had different aspects that they focus on.
And so the one that we chose, we, I worked with a professor
here who teaches criminal justice.
And so we thought that would be really fascinating to bring to
(10:49):
his students. And the criminal justice
professor and I decided to do one of the virtual tours that
they had the Salem witch trials,specifically 17th century law
and how that played into it. As you both know, there was a
lot of things that we don't accept now.
They were guilty until proven innocence and they accepted some
(11:11):
evidence that we would never consider today.
And so I think that'll be reallyinteresting for the criminal
justice students to learn about specifically.
And we were hoping to do more, but they are kind of expensive
to purchase and our budget for this was very limited, which is
again, why I'm building it myself.
And so we are doing a couple of those classes through the Salem
Witch Museum. And I've worked with the
(11:33):
education director there and shesounds great.
And I've watched a few that theyhave on their website.
So unfortunately, we're not ableto record these or share them,
but we are going to share them with the specific criminal
justice classes, which I think will be really meaningful for
them. And so that was why we decided
to go that route. But they have so many great
options like women's history around the witch trials and just
(11:55):
the witch trials in general. They have things on there for
younger audience, older audience, like it's great.
Fantastic. And can you tell us about the
other presentations that you arebringing in for the programming?
Yeah, well, because I'm a librarian, I thought I really
wanted to work with some authorswho have talked about this
topic. And so one of the authors I'm
(12:18):
working with is Kathleen Kent, and she wrote the book The
Heretics Daughter. It is not completely factual,
but it is like a historical fiction novel and it is all
about Martha Carrier, who is actually Kathleen Ken's
ancestor. So she wrote this book around
Martha Carrier, who was one of the convicted in the witch
(12:38):
trials and she was king. And so he wrote about that and
just the story she had grown up hearing about, but then tried to
really write it in a realistic way.
I don't read a lot of historicalfiction.
It's not really the genre I tendto gravitate to.
But I really enjoyed the book. And I lucked out because I was
following her on social media. And when I reached out, she was
(13:00):
like, I would love to come in person.
And I was like, oh, I thought she lived in Texas or wherever,
it said on her website. But she, I guess, had recently
moved to Colorado. So she's going to be here in
person, which is great. So I'm very excited about that
because it will be in person. I'm hoping that we get great
attendance for that. It's also going to be offered
hybrid, so like people can join virtually as well.
(13:21):
And we're going to give a signedbook away.
So if they do come in person, they'll get a chance to win her
book and she'll be here. We'll do like an author
reception after her presentationand she'll sign some books.
We don't have books for sale because we don't do that at the
library, but if they bring theirown book, they can get it
signed. And so that's going to be super
exciting. And then I also have another
(13:44):
author, Daniel Gagnon. He is actually a Massachusetts
resident, so his presentation isgonna be completely virtual.
But his book A Salem Witch, it'sall about Rebecca Nurse.
So it's basically like her biography, everything from where
she started out coming over to America and her whole life
story. And then it leads into how she
(14:06):
was accused of witchcraft and tried and eventually hanged and
then exonerated after. So it's like the whole story of
Rebecca Nurse. It is a fabulous.
I just finished it recently and I learned so much just that I
didn't even know. And I've been reading about the
Salem witch trials for so long and you learn something new
(14:26):
every book you read. And so he is going to be
presenting virtually and we alsohave a signed copy of his book
to give away. So that is going to be really
fun. And then Sarah, you are also
coming to present. Yeah.
And so that's going to be a lot of fun.
You talking about your organization, what you all do,
which I think is just great. And hopefully we can get some
interest in this and in the cause.
(14:49):
So yeah. Yeah.
Thank you so much for including us and giving us space in the
community to raise awareness about witchcraft accusations
today. That's awesome.
I'm really, I'm just so excited about everything that you're
putting together. And I know you're going to meet
Dan in a couple weeks when you go out there.
Yes. Hopefully, he said he would give
(15:11):
me a whole tour of the Rebecca Nurse homestead.
He's on the board of directors there.
He's in the Historical Society. Like it's just going to be so
great to kind of see Salem, but also have an expert there, like
tell, because before it was justme and my husband's not that
interested in it, right? So I'm just kind of trying to
figure things out and drag him along.
And so it'll be great to meet someone that I've been working
(15:32):
with virtually for months and hopefully get to tour.
I did not get to go to the Rebecca Nurse home instead the
first time I was there. So that'll be really exciting.
Yeah, we've been fortunate to have Dan as a guest on this
podcast a couple times. He came and spoke about Rebecca
Nurse and then George Jacobs senior who's also buried on that
(15:56):
property somewhere. Yeah, and I initially thought he
was a descendant of Rebecca Nurse, but I guess he isn't.
He's just very interested in it.But you, Sarah, are a descendant
of Rebecca Nurse. Is that right?
I am. I am.
And that's one of the things that propels my passion around
this topic. I too thought he was a
(16:19):
descendant. I remember I was, he was one of
our very first guests, like in the first dozen.
And I was so excited that we were going to be interviewing
him. And I just read his book and I
tweeted something out calling him a descendant.
And I got a sweet little privatemessage correcting me.
And I'm like, oh. Yeah.
So I think. That happens to him a lot, but
Rebecca is so meaningful to manypeople, and I have discovered
(16:43):
that even beyond Dan, there's. Other there's just.
So many non descendants that gravitate towards her story and
want to honor her. Yeah.
It's a really fascinating story.Like I said, I learned so much.
And honestly, I think you could write about each of the victims
a whole book because there's just so much.
(17:04):
They were all so different and there was so much involved that
I thought, well, how are they going to write a whole book
about one person in the witch trials?
But you know, each person's story I feel like really needs
to be told. I hope more of these come out
because I thought it was great and it was very educational,
really well researched. Obviously, Dan knows what he's
doing. He's a history about History was
(17:24):
not my Forte. So the fact that I'm even doing
this, I've learned so much and really it has kind of gotten me
interested in history. And so I'm hoping it does the
same for some of our students orfaculty staff.
I've mentioned it to a few of the staff here and I found out
things about them. Oh my gosh, my wife is super
into this. She's going to be so excited.
She's going to come to all your presentations.
(17:45):
And so things I really wouldn't have known about people just by
talking about this and getting that interest up.
So it's really kind of cool. As you've been learning about
the Salem Witch Trials, what aresome things that have surprised
you? Oh, gosh, I think one of the the
biggest things that's stuck withme is this story about Dorothy
(18:05):
Good, the little girl, Sarah Good's daughter, and I think
she's referred to as Dorcas a lot mistakenly.
They thought her name was Dorcas.
So she's usually called Dorcas in a lot of historical
documents. But I guess recently they've
discovered her name was Dorothy.She was only four or five years
old and accused of witchcraft and left in this prison even
after her mother was hanged and just affected her for her whole
(18:29):
life. There was a really good
presentation on the Salem Witch Museum because Rachel, who is
the director of education of theSalem Witch Museum, was one of
the ones that kind of discoveredmore about her and her whole
story and that she just had mental problems for the rest of
her life and just how it really affected her.
I think that story, I guess, being a mother really affected
(18:50):
me and I just, that was one of the craziest things I learned
that I had never even heard about.
And so that was definitely really interesting.
But there's been a few things that I learned I didn't know
about Spectral evidence. That was fascinating.
The fact that it was even accepted and someone could just
say they saw your spectre and you could be convicted on that.
(19:12):
Yeah. So many interesting things.
I tried to put them all into my exhibit, but I'm sure I probably
couldn't capture them all because there's just so many.
I'll probably have to do this now every year.
That would be awesome if you could.
Pull that off. With your energy and time, I
didn't know that people will be lining up to see the new
additions. I've really been impressed with
(19:34):
your resourcefulness of. Like you said, you.
Started from scratch and when wefirst connected in April, I was
so thrilled that you were interested in doing this.
And I was, you know, I hated knowing how difficult it was
going to be for you to build up some of your, the vision that
you had for this. And but you have done that
(19:57):
despite the barriers. And I really like what some of
your panels are focusing on. And you don't need to give
everything away, but do you wantto highlight any of the messages
from your storyboards? Yeah, I think my favorite one is
actually the first one I designed, which is the myths
versus the facts, because as I was researching it, I realize
(20:20):
there are still a lot of myths and misunderstandings around the
Salem witch trials. And so I try to highlight the
main. I think I've got about maybe 12,
maybe 13 on there that are pretty well known myths about
the Salem witch trials. And then I talk about the facts
that actually happened. One, as you know, is the ergot
(20:41):
theory where there was the fungus and the wheat.
And apparently that myth just will not die.
And so I'm going to try to help with that.
But there are others. People thought witches were
burned in Salem and they were not.
And so just just all of the different myths.
And again, I learned so much about it that I thought, why not
share this with others? So that's probably one of my
(21:03):
favorites. I also have the one about modern
witchcraft and witches, which I really enjoyed making as well.
I'm really fascinated by that. And just all of the, like I
said, the misconceptions around that and some of that fear and
stigma around it and just tryingto break that up.
I thought that was another really fun one to design, but
(21:24):
yeah, I have several in there. I just started trying to create
one that talks about what I learned from it, the most
fascinating things. So I do talk a little bit about
Dorothy. Good on that one.
And some other fascinating tidbits that I learned as I was
researching this. So I think it's going to be a
lot of fun. Been trying to make it a little
more interactive. I'm going to try to have some, I
(21:44):
don't know, thought questions onsome of the boards where after
they learn about this, they can take something away.
Just a question for them to ponder and think about.
And so I'm trying to incorporatethat as well as a lot of the
students when they come in can do a, almost like a scavenger
hunt we call it. But it's like a series of
(22:05):
questions and we'll just give them the handout and basically
all of the answers can be found in the exhibit.
But it gives them, you know, andthen then if they turn it back
in, they get entered to win a prize.
And so it gives them a little incentive to actually learn and
go through the exhibit and read all of the information instead
of just walking through and oh, this is cool and looking at the
(22:25):
pictures, but not really readingand learning anything.
And so we've found that that helps engage students a little
bit more and they get a little bit more out of the exhibit.
I'm working on that kind of simultaneously as I'm building
it. So yeah, it's a lot.
It is a lot, but it's it is justit's really going to ripple into
(22:46):
the student experience. That's one of the things about
witch trial history you have mentioned today.
It's their individual stories and we you just learn so much
understanding what happened to them in the courts and then
learning about their lives and it it's so applicable to things
we experienced today with injustice.
(23:08):
And so I'm just really grateful that you dug your heels in and
created this for your community.Is this available to the public
to stop in and look at? Yes.
So the exhibit will be open to the community, but because we
are a library and we're on a campus, we are also a quiet
(23:29):
study space. So even though we've advertised
in one of the local papers and we will invite the community in,
they will have to be respectful of their noise level.
But I'm also offering to set up some appointments after hours so
they can come through if maybe it's a larger group or they just
don't want to worry about the noise level.
Maybe they have younger childrenor like I said, like a group of
(23:50):
people who want to discuss it. I'm offering that.
And so I might be staying late afew nights this October.
So we'll see. But yeah, I wanted to open it to
the community, but I also didn'twant to impact the students and
their need for having a quiet study space on campus.
And so I was trying to find thatbalance.
I was just thinking how it mightbe interesting and maybe you're
already thinking about this, butwon't it be interesting to see
(24:14):
what questions come in maybe before they see the exhibit,
After they see the exhibit, are you going to find the same
question or comment coming up a lot?
Are you going to have a big variety that's like being on the
inside of this like you are, you're really going to get to
enjoy that aspect, that initial impact of the information on
(24:35):
the. Students, yeah, initially I was
worried too that we might get some blowback from the
community. I mean, anytime you mention
witches or witchcraft, again, there's that stigma and that
fear around it, which I'm tryingto get rid of, but you always
get a little bit of pushback from the community.
So I was a little worried about that.
But I made sure that I talked this over with the president of
the college and that he was on board with it and we were OK to
(24:59):
advertise to the community and bring the community in.
And I think just having that support from the administration
here at the college is great. And just knowing that some of
the events that we're going to put on might, might cause things
like that. Like October, there's also a
banned books week. We do get a lot of pushback
usually during that time about the banned books.
(25:21):
And so we're really trying to keep it very unbiased and
educational. And we're just saying these are
the facts even around the bannedbooks.
Like this is this is what is happening.
This is what it means to be a banned book because people
really don't understand what that means.
They're like, oh, but I can go buy it on Amazon and it's like,
well, it's been challenged. It's been pulled out of
libraries. That's what that means.
(25:41):
And we have some of the most challenged books.
But I also feel like this witchcraft it and witch trial
exhibit really fits in with thatbecause even though it's not a
banned book, it's just one of those things where there's that
kind of, I don't know, almost like that misunderstanding and
that fear and that really just not knowing enough about.
(26:02):
And whenever we don't know aboutsomething, we're afraid of it.
And that just causes a lot of problems.
And so we're really trying to keep it very educational, very
open minded. If people come in with
questions, I'd be more than happy to sit with them, talk to
them about these things. And so I think it's going to be,
I think it'll be well received. I was a little bit nervous, but
(26:23):
I do think keeping it that unbiased educational aspect, I
think it'll be well received in the community.
So I'm still excited, a little nervous, but excited.
Yeah, no, it's so fantastic. I love what you're doing there
and I love that you've designed it to be thought provoking.
(26:43):
So the people come through and they are looking for the answers
for the questions, and then at the end you're posing something
to them to get them thinking. What do you hope that visitors
take away from the experience? I guess just sort of what I took
away from it, building it, honestly, just maybe they
(27:04):
learned something new that was fascinating.
Maybe they get more interested in history, dive a little bit
deeper. You know, I just think maybe
having less of that fear around,which is witchcraft, some of the
things that they maybe didn't understand before the exhibit.
So even if just one person walksaway with that, I will be happy.
(27:28):
That's awesome. I was just thinking too, one of
the aspects of the Salem of trials which you and I haven't
discussed is there was banning of publications during that
year. Yes, I learned that in Dan's
book. And it was really fascinating
because it seemed very similar to things that are happening
(27:49):
today where they were only banning publications of like one
side of it. So if people were advocating for
the trials, they could publish, but if people were kind of
against the trials, they were not allowed to publish it.
And I thought, Oh my gosh, that's so fascinating.
You know, as we've learned, if you control the media, you can
control what people think and what people know.
(28:10):
And knowledge is really powerful.
And I think especially when people are trying to erase that
knowledge, it's really, really important to get it out there
even more and, you know, let people know the true facts and
the true history. And yeah, that's one of the
reasons I kind of love the wholestory around the Salem witch
(28:31):
trials. It's like my husband asked me,
he's like, why do you like Salem?
That's where they tongue witcheslike they're not.
It's not a good place. And I think for me it's it's one
of those places and one of thosetimes in American history where
we have actually, as Americans acknowledged that we messed up
and they came back after the fact.
They made restitutions. I mean, yeah, they're not going
(28:54):
to ever bring back the people that were accused and hung
butts. It's a start.
And that they could acknowledge their wrongs and put up a
memorial and come back after thefact and basically apologize and
say we were wrong and try to make it right.
Which I don't feel like as an American Society, we've done a
lot in our history. We really never came out and
(29:17):
talked about slavery. And a lot of people still try to
brush that under the rug or the Trail of Tears with the Native
Americans. And it's just, it's really sad.
And I think that's one of the things I love about Salem is
even if it's a horrible story, at least they came back after
the fact and could acknowledge their wrongdoing and like try to
(29:37):
make it right because you can't ever undo the past.
But if you don't acknowledge it and learn from it, like, what
are we doing right? So that's why I really love the
story of the trials and just thewhole, that's why I tried to
tell the whole story through up to when they were exonerated,
which I just recently learned about.
I think the last one in the Salem witch trials was recently
(30:01):
exonerated. And I had never heard of her.
Elizabeth Johnson Junior. And that it was a small class
that just put this petition together to try to get her
exonerated. She was like the last one.
And yeah, I thought that was just so fascinating that even a
couple years ago, we're still trying to make it right, but
they are trying to make it right.
And I think that's really important.
(30:21):
Yeah, that was just three years ago that Elizabeth Johnson
Junior got exonerated, the last person convicted of witchcraft
at Salem to be cleared. And then it was a year after
that that Connecticut absolved all the people who were accused
over there. And we're still seeing efforts
(30:43):
in other States and around the world to try.
Like you said, it's important just to acknowledge the past.
You have to acknowledge it before you can move forward.
Yeah, learning from it. So I love that you're
incorporating all that. I'm trying.
Experience, yeah. Yeah, it's, you've just created
(31:04):
this. It's such a complex story and
there's all these layers and youreally I just, I'm thinking of
it like a bouquet. You went out to this field of
wildflowers and you got just themost beautiful samples of that
field and put the story togetheror this bouquet together.
So I'm grateful. It's just a small part, but I'm
(31:26):
hoping it will at least lead into maybe them doing their own
research, learning a little bit more.
I really hope people read the books because I do think that is
going to be great where we were going to try to do like a little
book club on campus around that,but it was just too hard to get
everything together. But hopefully at least some of
the faculty or staff and students can read the book
(31:47):
beforehand and really have thosemeaningful conversations with
the authors too. Because I thought the books were
really just fantastic. And like I said, I learned so
much. And so I hope that others can do
that as well, even if it's afterthe fact, because we did order a
few of the books for our collection.
So even if that just interests them and then they check out the
book and read it, I think it'll be really great.
(32:10):
So. Yeah, I really love Kathleen
Kent's work, The Heretic's Daughter, and then there's a
sequel to it, The Wolves of Andover, and they're both so
entertaining. It's not an exact replica of the
history, but it puts you in thatsituation so you feel what the
characters would have experienced.
(32:32):
Yeah. And yeah, I thought it was.
It was well done where you do feel immersed in that time
period. It's written in that I don't
know what you would like, older dialect, and you do feel like
you're in the period, which is hard for some people to read.
I know if you go back and you read Jane Austen or Shakespeare,
you really have to start to get into it, but as you do, it does
(32:53):
put you in that time period and you're a little more immersed in
it. So I thought that was really
neat. I've read some other witch books
that are like that and they're written in that older English
and yeah, I think it's super fascinating, So fun.
What have you named the program and what?
Dates Is it running? So the exhibit is called Witch
(33:15):
trials Accusation to exoneration.
I feel like that title encompasses what I'm doing a
little bit better and it will beup the entire month of October
and any time that we're open. The library is open Monday
through Thursday, 8:00 to 5:00 and then Friday 8 to 3.
Anyone is welcome to come in. And then like I said, I will
take requests to do and after hours if needed.
(33:39):
I'm hoping most of those are on Friday after three majors.
I really don't want to stay hereuntil 9:00 PM every night, but
but I will because I do think it's important to get the
message out. And yeah, so the whole month of
October and then the specific talks that I have going on.
So Sarah, you will be here on Thursday, October 9th.
(33:59):
And then Kathleen Kent will be here on Thursday, October 16th.
And then we'll be virtual on. It's a Wednesday, I think
October 22nd, looking at my little calendar here.
And then I don't have any presentations the week of
Halloween because I always do what I like to call Halloween
where we dress up all week because I love Halloween.
(34:19):
I have so many costumes. I could probably dress up all
month, but I'm going to limit itto a week because not everyone
loves it as much as me. But I think it'll be really fun
this year. We're doing it more like a
spirit week, so hopefully the students will get involved in.
We have a crazy hair day and that kind of thing.
And then I do a costume contest and so students can come in.
We're going to do it on the 30thbecause there's not a lot of
(34:40):
classes here on Friday. So the 31st was out.
But on the 30th, if they come incostume, they can enter the
costume contest. Last year we had a a lot of fun
with that and so again, it's just going to be a whole fun
month and I'm just very excited to get the word out about the
Salem witch trials in general. But just, I love all things
witches, and that's what it's going to be about.
(35:02):
If you have a program about witch trials coming up, let us
know so we can spread the word and offer any support we're able
to. Please reach out to us if you
would like to develop a program and just don't know where to
start. Thank you for joining us.
Have a great today and a beautiful tomorrow.
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