Come explore a forgotten witch panic that happened before Salem. This episode visits Springfield, Massachusetts to discuss a groundbreaking museum exhibit that brings the 1650-1652 Hugh and Mary Parsons witchcraft case to life. Curator Elizabeth Kapp explains how "Witch Panic: Massachusetts Before Salem" immerses visitors in this early witch panic through interactive elements that put visitors in the role of jury members. The exhibit reveals how this case influenced the more famous Salem trials and why understanding these historical moments remains crucial today.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the thing about witchhunts.
I'm Josh Hutchinson. I'm Sarah Jack.
Today we're taking you to Springfield, MA, where the
Springfield Museums has created what is one of the most
innovative and comprehensive witch trial exhibits in the
United States. Which panic?
Massachusetts Before Salem tellsthe story of Hugh and Mary
(00:21):
Parsons, whose 1650 to 1651 caserepresents the first true witch
panic in what would become America.
You may remember Hugh and Mary from an episode we did with
Malcolm Gaskell about his book The Ruin of All Witches.
And we did another episode, justSarah and I, to fill in the
(00:41):
details of the Parsons story. So go check those out after
this. This isn't just another witch
trial story. This story helped set the stage
for everything that came after, including Salem.
And what makes this exhibit so special is how it invites
visitors to experience the storyfirst hand, even serving as
(01:02):
members of the jury reviewing the evidence.
Our guest today is Elizabeth Capp, Curator of History at the
Springfield Museums, who is masterfully woven together local
history, the humanity of the accused in connections to our
modern world. So let's start this fascinating
conversation about which panic banned books and why the
(01:24):
humanity of the accused matters more than ever.
Welcome to the Thing about WitchHunts podcast.
Elizabeth, please introduce yourself and tell us about your
expertise and the place and location of your work.
Well, thank you guys for having me.
I'm very honored to be here. My name is Elizabeth Kapp, and I
am the Curator of history at theSpringfield Museums in
(01:47):
Springfield, MA. My background in terms of
education is in history and art history, and I have a master's
in History Museum studies from the Cooperstown graduate
program, and it's all of this passion in history about the
stories from the past that have led me to be able to tell the
story. That's awesome.
(02:10):
What would you like us and our audience to know about the
Springfield Museums? The Springfield Museum is
actually a collection of five museums and a sculpture garden
located in Springfield, MA. And so we have two different art
museums, a Science Museum, the amazing world of Doctor Seuss,
and the Doctor Seuss Sculpture Garden as well.
(02:33):
And then we have the Lyman and Mary Wood Museum of Springfield
History, which is where this exhibit, which panic
Massachusetts before Salem is located.
How did this exhibit which paniccome together?
Well, like all great projects, it was definitely a
collaborative effort with my colleagues at the Springfield
(02:54):
Museums across the board. But also the magic with history
is the fact that it's building off of other people's work and
research that has come before me.
And it was working with my colleagues and the archives to
find some materials that help shed light to the context of
(03:16):
1615 Springfield. It was working with my exhibits
colleagues to make sure that we tell the story physically in a
way that truly transports peopleas best as we can to 1650
Springfield. And what like was like for the
Parsons at that time. And so yes, it was a
collaborative process and we're really proud of this outcome.
(03:40):
Thank you. Yeah, we've talked about the
case of Hugh and Mary Parsons a couple times on the podcast, but
it's been quite a long time. We're so excited to see this
getting some more attention now.And what can you tell us about
which panic itself? What's in the exhibit?
What can visitors expect? This is actually the largest
(04:04):
exhibit that the History Museum has put together ever since it
opened in 2009. And as you guys are well aware,
the history and the stories of witchcraft are extremely
complicated and nuanced, where the details really add up and
they matter and they're a matterof life and death often times.
(04:24):
And with the story this interconnected and complex as
the Parsons case, especially as it interplays with the story of
William Pynchon and his band book, The Meritorious Price of
Our Redemption, it was importantto take the space that we had to
tell the stories. This layered story that we have,
(04:45):
This exhibit actually spans two different floors of the History
Museum. And because we have such a
variety of museums, our audienceis also very varied, so to
speak. And so we wanted to make sure we
had something for everyone because everyone thinks they
understand witches no matter what age.
(05:06):
And so there's that interest in just about everyone.
And on the two floors they explore different questions when
it comes to witches. So on the 1st floor, we have a
great big open hall that is organized in four different
thematic areas. And it's in these areas we
explore the question, what is a witch?
(05:26):
Because we all have our own understanding of what a witch
is, and both of that, all of that is inspired by both the
myth of and the fantastic natureof witchcraft.
But it's also inspired by the real history.
And the first Floor explores this question by putting our
(05:50):
guests in 1650s Springfield and exploring different aspects of
life in the 1650s. In this area.
There's a space dedicated to a recreation of a kitchen in
colonial Springfield with a livecrack, not quite live, but with
a crackling fire. And there's a different area
(06:12):
that explores the jobs that would have been common for the
colonists to have, and then a different area dedicated to the
colonists relationship with the afterlife.
But concluding this area, we thought it was important to
bring the story up to the modernday.
And so there's a section dedicated to the many witches of
(06:32):
our pop culture and the witches of our world today.
Because while most of us might think that witchcraft is
something of history, there are many witches and each of us has
a favorite and each of us has a reason why.
So the first floor is setting upthis question, what is a witch?
And offers a lot of avenues to explore that question based on
(06:56):
history and based on the fantastic ideas.
But as people move upstairs, it's upstairs that we explore
and dive deep into this specificstory of Mary Louis Parsons and
Hugh Parsons and set up the story for our guests to
experience. I'm so excited.
(07:17):
I really hope that I get the opportunity to come experience
this before it's over. Can you tell us?
You talked about the daily livesof those in the 1650s.
Can you talk us? Through the daily.
Lives of Marion Hill before the accusations began, and what were
they like as neighbors and community members?
(07:39):
Yes. So Springfield's story is quite
unique, especially when you compare it to other colonial
sediments in New England at thattime, because it was settled as
basically a company town. It was designed for trade.
And so it wasn't this transplanted congregation like
so many other early settlements at that time.
(08:01):
And So what that meant is that the people who moved here didn't
automatically have that communalrelation that many other
communities had. When Mary Louis, when she first
moved to Springfield, she workedwith William Pension's daughter
and Smith, taking care of some of their daughters, some of the
(08:23):
Smith children. And Hugh Parsons was actually
recruited specifically by Pension and other town leaders
because he had a very important skill, which was brick making.
Now, at a time when most houses were made of wood, it makes a
lot of sense that Brooks were a hot commodity, so to speak, and
(08:43):
it was important. And it basically elevated the
town status to have this brick maker in town.
And brick chimneys became a status symbol quite quickly.
The problem was, so the town needed Hugh because they needed
Hugh's skills. But Hugh Parsons was a bit of a
(09:04):
character by all accounts. He had a tendency to do what at
the time were called sleeveless errands, which is basically an
unexpected visit to a neighbor without a real reason.
There's many, many records and memories of him basically just
showing up at neighbors houses and they would answer the door,
(09:28):
ask what he wanted, but he was just filling time and space.
And it didn't really sit the societal expectations of
behavior in colonial New England.
And in her own way, Mary Parsonswas also somewhat of a known
entity in Springfield because she was a deeply religious woman
and very devout in her faith. But she in this story, she
(09:53):
basically tried to find the answers to all these mysterious
happenings in Springfield herself.
And she thought that she had found it in one of her
neighbors, Mercy Marshfield. But that earlier accusation
actually wasn't taken by WilliamPension and the rest of the town
as a true witchcraft accusation,even though it was taken as
(10:17):
slander. And Mercy Marshfield wrought
slander charges against Mary Parsons.
And that meant not only did the debt of the Parsons family
increase, but that meant that everyone in town started
wondering, why is Mary Parsons asking questions about witches?
Why does Mary Parsons know so much about witchcraft?
(10:39):
And so they were normal people, the Parsons.
They had their own hopes and dreams, and both Mary and Hugh
moved to Springfield for new opportunities.
But because of many situations and many details that all added
up, they found themselves being accused of witchcraft.
(11:00):
How did the rumors and sort of whispers of witchcraft turn into
full blown accusations that consumed the town?
Yes, in the exhibit witch Panic Massachusetts before Salem, the
second floor of this exhibit that I've explained is actually
organized in a way that we present that question to our
(11:24):
guests. So we introduce Springfield in
1650s and we introduce the real people involved in this story.
But then we invite our visitors to review the evidence
themselves. And the space is organized that
we break down each of the accusations into different
(11:48):
pieces of evidence and then it'sorganized chronologically.
Some of these details aren't really defined to a specific
time, like huge sleeveless errands.
They happened a lot, and Mary Parsons devout faith and her
feelings on witchcraft spanned time.
(12:08):
But there were other pieces of evidence that were very
specific. And the exhibit is organized so
that guests are invited to act as the grand jury, and they're
actually invited to pass judgement themselves before the
ultimate end of the story is revealed.
And as you experience this exhibit, there's 15 pieces of
(12:32):
evidence that are outlined throughout the space.
And it can be pinpointed to beginning in 1648 with the
deaths of two of the Smith children, Sarah and Margaret
Smith. They died in June of 1648.
And the Smith children were William Pynchon's
(12:54):
granddaughters. And they fell I'll the entire
town prayed, but they passed. And that bothered people in the
town because if these were the town's founders granddaughters,
so in a sense, if they were not safe from this illness and
(13:15):
mysterious evil, no one was. And so over the course of almost
three years, these events were unfolding in Springfield and
around the area, and people wanted to know, why are bowels
mysteriously missing? Why are people going to sleep
(13:37):
and seeing visions every night? These questions kept building
and building over time until basically they blew up and led
to the accusations of Mary and Hugh Parsons.
This story is really gripping and when you start talking about
(13:57):
those 15 evidences and then openwith the illness, that is
something that we see across history and a lot of these
stories, but it's there is so much more to it.
As you mentioned, the culture ofthe community, why they're
there, why are they brought together and all of the things.
I can't imagine how powerful this exhibit is actually to your
(14:22):
guests and the community becauseyou're taking what they think
they know or what they enjoy about pop culture with evidences
they've heard about it. But getting to walk through that
story, that's amazing. And one of my favorite parts of
the story, on the lighter side, even though it was very serious,
(14:44):
is the pudding. How the pudding turns out, I
just love that. Is that included in the exhibit?
Yes, of course, the spoiled pudding.
Just so everyone's on the same page on February 21st, 1651.
So this was only 6 days before Hugh Parsons was arrested.
Five days before Mary Parsons was arrested, the Langdon
(15:05):
family, Hannah Langdon tried to make a kind of pudding and it
didn't come out. It was called a bag pudding and
it basically didn't come out of the bag as one whole piece like
it's supposed to. It was split from end to end.
And the quote is as if a knife had cut it.
And it was this split pudding that just was adding to this
(15:31):
suspicion. But that story I thought was
very important to include because it's an instance where
you can see how the social standings of the Parsons worked
against them because the puddingfailed, and the Langdons
actually decided to conduct a bit of witchcraft themselves and
(15:53):
threw a bit of the failed pudding in the fire.
This was not something you were supposed to do in Puritan
Massachusetts, but they wanted answers.
And supposedly the first person to knock on your door is the
witch who cursed that pudding. But the first person who knocked
on the door was Bess Sewell, a different neighbor.
(16:15):
And so the Langdons basically just decided that Bess really
wasn't the one who did the breadpudding.
And so the story goes that Bess came in, and they basically all
huddled in the house and waited for another knock on the door.
And under the cover of dark, they heard some shuffling
outside of the door. And who knocked on the door?
(16:37):
But who? Parsons.
It sounds like there was an awful lot of evidence presented
against them. Evidence of witchcraft, evidence
of at least odd behavior, Eccentricity, definitely, But a
lot more testimonies were submitted than what you get.
(16:58):
Even in some of the Salem cases.It's one person making the
accusation, and then maybe you get a second person before they
do the conviction, but it's onlya couple things and they're
ready to convict you. Where Springfield?
It sounds like they were kind ofreluctant to get a case going
(17:19):
and it took like all of this to build.
Up yes and I I wonder if the Mary Louis Parsons accusation of
Mercy Marshfield plays a part ofthat because before that
accusation people might have felt things about Mary Parsons,
but they weren't speaking openlyabout why does she know so much
(17:39):
about witchcraft? And in in Puritan New England,
you were expected to adhere to some strict societal
expectations. But if you point out other
people's transgressions of thosequote, UN quote rules, then
you're all the more likely to bethe target of that scrutiny
(18:03):
yourself. And so it was this back and
forth and balancing act. In 1645, which is the year that
the Hugh and Mary got married, the town of Springfield only had
about 100 people in it. And we've all been in situations
amongst 100 people. And that's not a lot of people,
(18:24):
but rumors and these feelings ofjust unease can spread really
easily. And it was one of those
situations that bad things were happening and they wanted to
know who was responsible. The way rumors spread in like a
small group, it just reminded meof, you know, work school.
(18:47):
We know how rumors spread in even the smallest workplace.
People are gossiping about each other.
So, you know, it's we can all relate to some degree.
Very much so. Earlier you mentioned this book
that was banned. Can you tell us about that and
(19:08):
did Cotton Mather have it too orwhat's the story on that?
Yes, there are two objects displayed in this exhibit.
One of them is pewter Candlestick that William Pynchon
owned because he also founded Roxbury before he moved out West
to Springfield. But the other object is a book
(19:29):
called The Meritorious Price of Our Redemption, and this was
William Pension's publication. William Pension, his trade, he
was a tradesman and was quite a wealthy man and was also very
powerful. As I said, Springfield was
founded differently than other colonial towns.
(19:50):
But what that meant is that Springfield was essentially
William Pension's company town. He ran it, he oversaw everyone's
debts and he invited people to live there.
But he also served as the town magistrate and so he was very
wealthy and powerful and Springfield was his town.
(20:10):
But he was also very educated and he fancied himself a bit of
a theologian, an amateur. 1 And it was the mid 1600's.
The printing press had made a massive impact in Europe when it
comes to the spread of information.
And so pamphlets started becoming much more prevalent
(20:32):
because they were easier to produce on Mass.
And so William Pynchon, amateur theologian, decided to write
what he titled The Meritorious Price of Our Redemption.
And the book itself is an analysis and arguments relating
to the death of Christ. Pynchon was arguing that the
(20:55):
death of Jesus Christ in the Christian religion, it was not
Jesus's death that gave Christians their everlasting
life and freed everyone from original sin, but rather it was
Jesus Christ's strict adherence to the words of his Father.
So it was placing the role of the Father and the Son much more
(21:18):
prevalent in the story of Christand Christian's foundings.
However, the Puritan leaders of Massachusetts did not like this
interpretation at all. And in fact, it was originally
published in London and it immediately started drawing
(21:40):
attention. And by the time it arrived on
the shores of New England, it faced the judgement of Boston
General Counsel and they found the text to be heretical.
And so the text became one of the first banned books in
English North America, and it was burned on the shores of
(22:02):
Boston, which means that there are not many copies left that
exist in the world. To our understanding, there are
only 9 that exist, and the Springfield Museums is lucky
enough to have one. And this book is important for
all of the reasons I just explained, but it intersects
(22:23):
with this story in two ways. The first way is the fact that
William Pension himself was accused of heresy, which meant
that he had to face the the Boston judges himself.
We haven't dove deep into the specifics of Mary and Hughes
story, but their case started inSpringfield and eventually had
(22:46):
to be moved to Boston, in part because of the large scale of
the accusations, but in part because also William pension.
After his publication and his book was banned, his status in
the Commonwealth started to falter.
People started wondering is he really a good leader if he is
(23:08):
publishing heretical texts? And so Mary Louis Parsons faced
the Boston General Court in May of 1651.
And that happened in the morning.
And it was that very same afternoon that William Pension
(23:28):
faced accusations of heresy for the book publication.
And so essentially William Pension went to Boston and in
the morning he served as prosecutor against Mary Louis
Parsons for the witchcraft and murder trial.
And then in the afternoon, he basically switched sides and was
(23:48):
the defendant in his own case. And because of the outcome of
the book burning, he was orderedto basically apologize and take
it back. He actually basically withdrew
from his role as a leader of Springfield, and within a year,
he left Springfield and passed off all of the leadership roles
(24:13):
to his son-in-law. And this witchcraft trial
directly impacted the trajectoryof Springfield because it led to
the founder of Springfield leaving, which, of course,
changed what might have happened.
And so these two stories of the book and the witch trial, you
cannot separate. They're directly intertwined.
(24:37):
But another reason why this bookis important and so special is
because the copy that we have ondisplay at the Springfield
Museums was once owned by CottonMather.
And the way we know that is thathe signed it in the cover and he
dated it 1673. And obviously I don't, I can't
(25:02):
say this for certain, but because it was Cotton Mather and
because of that date, it is highly likely that Cotton Mather
knew the story of the Parsons and knew what happened to
William Pynchon as he was entering the the phase of Salem.
(25:25):
1673, Cotton Mather was a kid atthat time.
I think he was. I believe he was born about
1663, So yeah. Yes, then.
But he got an early start at Harvard.
Though yes, yes, and I found it fascinating he signed his name
in like the Latin version and sohe added some like ous to the
(25:49):
end of his names. Cotton, Miss Mather as well.
That is so. Awesome, love it.
Yeah, and you brought up Salem. How do you see impacts from this
history? I'm also curious what kind of
feedback you get from guests or colleagues as you're looking at
(26:13):
the Parsons story and then thinking about Salem as.
Well, so as I'm sure many of us have heard already, in Malcolm
Gaskell's book, The Ruin of All Witches, he argues, and in all
of my research, I also argue that what happened in
Springfield is quite unique whenyou compare it to earlier
(26:37):
accusations of witchcraft. Because this is not the first
accusation of witchcraft in Massachusetts, but it's the
first time that this panic and this sense of terror and fear
that was being funneled towards witches and witch finding the
source of witchcraft, it overtook the town completely.
(27:02):
I mentioned that there's 6-15 pieces of evidence.
That's only a sampling of what was provided.
I couldn't fit everything because of space and just focus.
And I was trying to streamline the story.
And so in the story in Springfield in 1651, you have
(27:24):
the first witch panic in what became the United States.
And that sets up the scene for every other mass panic relating
to witches that came after. And So what happened to
Springfield and what happened tothe Parsons laid the groundwork
(27:49):
essentially that ultimately led to and essentially concluded
with the Salem witch trials. I actually.
Want to put Springfield into a little bit of context with you.
You mentioned the witch trials that happened just before the
Hugh Parsons and Mary Louis Parsons case came up.
(28:12):
Springfield is in the Connecticut River Valley, so
it's just up the river from towns like Windsor, CT,
Hartford, CT, where Windsor had had the first execution for
witchcraft just in 1647 of AliceYoung.
And then you go over to Boston and there's, I believe three
(28:33):
women are executed before the Parsons go to trial.
There's Margaret Jones, Elizabeth Kendall and Alice Lake
over there. So there were a few, but they
were all, like you said, they were one off 1 suspect, not a
group of suspects like what you see in Springfield, which is why
(28:54):
it's considered a panic. But geographically, it's in like
a fertile area where a lot of, like, witchcraft suspicions are
being bandied about at the time,Yeah.
It also it adds to that sense ofunease because there were
indigenous communities surrounding Springfield and
(29:15):
that's part a large reason why it was economically successful
in the fur trade because of the extraction of natural resources.
But it was also quite isolated from Hartford and Windsor and
from it was 100 miles away from Boston and it was isolated from
other European formed communities.
(29:37):
And so that added to the sense of unease because it was it was
quite remote and it was a small town trying to survive.
I'm so happy even though I've been there and I can just, you
know, what I know of the historyand what you've shared about
what you've put together. I love the journey you're taking
(29:57):
guests on to learn about the local history and to understand
these accusations more. How do people feel when they're
leaving? Is it like, 'cause it is a sad
story, but it also helps us understand ourselves more is do
you? What kind of reflections are
people coming out? Yes.
(30:19):
It's one it depends on which part of the exhibit, because the
entire exhibit is designed to beinteractive, both physically in
sections, but also mentally and get you thinking basically.
And when it comes to the first floor area that this question of
(30:40):
what is a which there are a lot of opportunities for individuals
to explore that question. Because I thought throughout
this story, I wanted to center the humanness of the Parsons
because in in doing all of this research and exploring their
(31:00):
story, it's so easy to see them as witches because that's how
history remembers them. But they were human beings
first. And so that's why I thought it
was important to explore Springfield in 1650s.
What is the reality of the setting behind this witchcraft
(31:21):
trial? And it was, it's through that
setting that we can explore questions like, where did the
pointy hats come from? What about the cauldrons and
these broomsticks? And so when it comes to the
first floor of the exhibit and the question, what is a witch,
we're getting a lot of interaction and responses with
(31:41):
people engaging with that that idea and that question.
And they're maybe asking themselves about what makes
their favorite witch from pop culture a witch versus, say,
another sorcerer or sorceress. And that's one level of
interaction and reflection you've been getting.
(32:03):
But as the story continues to the second floor and focuses on
the Parsons story, I thought just like how we continued the
what is a which conversation to the present day with exploration
of pop culture, I thought it wasimportant to extend the
conversation about what happenedto the Parsons to now as best as
(32:26):
possible. And so the story of after the
evidence is laid out and we reveal what happened to the
Parsons, there is a wall that's dedicated to the names of all
the individuals that were accused of witchcraft in
Massachusetts. That makes me so happy to hear.
Yes, because and. We've capitalized and bolded
(32:50):
Mary Louis Parsons names and Hugh Parsons name.
But there are only two names in this sea of names, and every
single name has a story like this.
And every single name was a person with goals and hopes and
dreams whose life was impacted by this fear.
(33:13):
And ultimately, the conclusion of that space ends with a detail
about how this was first reported by the Guardian.
And in 2019, three indigenous young women were Two of them
were expelled and one of them was left with a warning by their
local Arizona school because they did some of their
(33:37):
traditional ceremonial practicesand the school found it to be
satanic. And so this fear of difference
and otherness is still very mucharound and present.
Nowadays we think of witches as something either in the movies
and TV or something in colonial New England.
(33:59):
But the fear and the panic that makes the Parson story happened
the way that it did is still something that we all interact
with today. That's so important that you
cover that there's so much that we need to learn from the witch
trials and how our ancestors handled fear.
(34:21):
And then you look at a case likethat one in Arizona, which is
where I happen to live, that's acouple hours drive from your
that school. And it's so terrible.
We're so quick to label things as satanic or other enemy.
We need to learn from these witch trials.
(34:41):
It's so important. In the second floor gallery, we
also provide a space for our visitors to pass judgement after
they've reviewed the evidence against the Parsons.
And it's just a simple question.Do you find the defendant, Mary
Parsons guilty or not guilty? Do you find Hugh Parsons guilty
(35:03):
or not guilty? And going into this and
organizing this exhibit, I was genuinely concerned that people
wouldn't answer and engage with that question because of this
idea that which is how could they have believed all of this?
But I am, I'm blown away with the responses that we've gotten
(35:25):
and these papers that people arewriting their answers on.
It's very clear that they're engaging with the story, and the
thing about museum exhibits is that you need to tell the story
in a way that people don't need to read every single detail, but
they're still able to take away something.
(35:46):
And it's obvious that people aretaking away this message.
Well done hearing about the components in the scope of the
story that the overall story of what is a witch and the person's
you're giving guests an opportunity to relate to what
they're familiar with pop culture, witchcraft, fantasy.
(36:07):
And then there's this education piece.
Here's a story about people justa little couple centuries back
who lived here and what happenedin the community.
And then your final, they're giving more reflection, giving
them a story out of the news that they're probably familiar
(36:27):
with, not necessarily, but they can go read more.
And it's just giving. There's so many great ways to
bring people to understand witchcraft accusations.
And I really love what you've done.
So I'm so appreciative. You mentioned that this was a
first large exhibit like this inyour community.
(36:49):
And I really think as far as what is available here in the
US, it's a first because it's very different.
It's a different presentation. And I'm so grateful that you
have it going until this fall. Thank you for to you and your
team for giving this really creative presentation in your
(37:10):
museum. And I love what museums have the
opportunity to do. And so thank you.
Thank you for all of those very kind words.
That means a lot because you guys are the expert when it
comes to these stories. And as I said before, as you're
reading the stories of the Parsons, what drew me in was
their humanity. The fact that Mary Lewis was
(37:34):
first married around the age of 17 and her first husband
abandoned her, but she wasn't able to get a divorce.
And how she fought in the ways that she could to establish this
new life in Springfield and how Hugh Parsons had this vision of
his life and how he wanted it togo.
(37:55):
And it makes all of the details very human.
And so throughout the exhibit, we're striving to bring that
humanity 1st. And so the introduction to the
exhibition on the 2nd floor is actually 2 silhouettes, 2
outlines that represent Mary Louis Parsons and Hugh Parsons.
(38:20):
Because I thought it was important for you to be greeted
with their humanity 1st and thenyou can hear the accusations
against them after you've quote UN quote met them as people.
Yeah, I mean, I just love what you're doing with bringing the
humanity forward. That's what we try to do with
(38:42):
the show, is to show that both the accused and the accusers
were humans like us. They have the same wants and
needs and desires and fears. And, you know, they respond in a
lot of the same ways that we respond to things.
Thanks for answering this question with your work.
(39:04):
Is there anything else you wouldlike to share today?
I just want to say again, thank you both for having me here.
You're doing very important workbecause as we've covered, which
trials might not happen anymore,but the fear and the panic and
this sense of unease that we often, that is often perpetuated
(39:26):
is very much still in our society.
And so thank you for the work that you do in trying to have
these conversations and bring attention to the fact that the
people in the past are human andjust like us.
Thank you so much for being heretalking to us today.
Can you just remind the audiencewhen the exhibit is running and
(39:49):
how they can get tickets and allthat?
Which panic Massachusetts beforeSalem is at the Wood Museum of
Springfield History, which is one of the five museums at the
Springfield Museums. So if you're interested, I would
invite you to visit www.springfieldmuseums.org to
learn more about our exhibit, but also our many museums and
(40:10):
all of the amazing programs we have to offer.
The exhibit itself is open untilNovember 2nd, so there is.
If you're coming through the area over the summer and into
the fall. There is plenty of time to learn
a little bit more about Springfield and step foot in
what Mary and Hugh Parsons mighthave experienced.
(40:34):
Don't forget to try out our new podcast, The Thing About Salem.
It's perfect for listening to onyour ride over to Springfield.
Have a great today and a beautiful tomorrow.
Welcome to the thing about witchhunts.
I'm Josh Hutchinson. I'm Sarah Jack.
Today we're taking you to Springfield, MA, where the
Springfield Museums has created what is one of the most
innovative and comprehensive witch trial exhibits in the
United States. Which panic?
Massachusetts Before Salem tellsthe story of Hugh and Mary
(00:21):
Parsons, whose 1650 to 1651 caserepresents the first true witch
panic in what would become America.
You may remember Hugh and Mary from an episode we did with
Malcolm Gaskell about his book The Ruin of All Witches.
And we did another episode, justSarah and I, to fill in the
(00:41):
details of the Parsons story. So go check those out after
this. This isn't just another witch
trial story. This story helped set the stage
for everything that came after, including Salem.
And what makes this exhibit so special is how it invites
visitors to experience the storyfirst hand, even serving as
(01:02):
members of the jury reviewing the evidence.
Our guest today is Elizabeth Capp, Curator of History at the
Springfield Museums, who is masterfully woven together local
history, the humanity of the accused in connections to our
modern world. So let's start this fascinating
conversation about which panic banned books and why the
(01:24):
humanity of the accused matters more than ever.
Welcome to the Thing about WitchHunts podcast.
Elizabeth, please introduce yourself and tell us about your
expertise and the place and location of your work.
Well, thank you guys for having me.
I'm very honored to be here. My name is Elizabeth Kapp, and I
am the Curator of history at theSpringfield Museums in
(01:47):
Springfield, MA. My background in terms of
education is in history and art history, and I have a master's
in History Museum studies from the Cooperstown graduate
program, and it's all of this passion in history about the
stories from the past that have led me to be able to tell the
story. That's awesome.
(02:10):
What would you like us and our audience to know about the
Springfield Museums? The Springfield Museum is
actually a collection of five museums and a sculpture garden
located in Springfield, MA. And so we have two different art
museums, a Science Museum, the amazing world of Doctor Seuss,
and the Doctor Seuss Sculpture Garden as well.
(02:33):
And then we have the Lyman and Mary Wood Museum of Springfield
History, which is where this exhibit, which panic
Massachusetts before Salem is located.
How did this exhibit which paniccome together?
Well, like all great projects, it was definitely a
collaborative effort with my colleagues at the Springfield
(02:54):
Museums across the board. But also the magic with history
is the fact that it's building off of other people's work and
research that has come before me.
And it was working with my colleagues and the archives to
find some materials that help shed light to the context of
(03:16):
1615 Springfield. It was working with my exhibits
colleagues to make sure that we tell the story physically in a
way that truly transports peopleas best as we can to 1650
Springfield. And what like was like for the
Parsons at that time. And so yes, it was a
collaborative process and we're really proud of this outcome.
(03:40):
Thank you. Yeah, we've talked about the
case of Hugh and Mary Parsons a couple times on the podcast, but
it's been quite a long time. We're so excited to see this
getting some more attention now.And what can you tell us about
which panic itself? What's in the exhibit?
What can visitors expect? This is actually the largest
(04:04):
exhibit that the History Museum has put together ever since it
opened in 2009. And as you guys are well aware,
the history and the stories of witchcraft are extremely
complicated and nuanced, where the details really add up and
they matter and they're a matterof life and death often times.
(04:24):
And with the story this interconnected and complex as
the Parsons case, especially as it interplays with the story of
William Pynchon and his band book, The Meritorious Price of
Our Redemption, it was importantto take the space that we had to
tell the stories. This layered story that we have,
(04:45):
This exhibit actually spans two different floors of the History
Museum. And because we have such a
variety of museums, our audienceis also very varied, so to
speak. And so we wanted to make sure we
had something for everyone because everyone thinks they
understand witches no matter what age.
(05:06):
And so there's that interest in just about everyone.
And on the two floors they explore different questions when
it comes to witches. So on the 1st floor, we have a
great big open hall that is organized in four different
thematic areas. And it's in these areas we
explore the question, what is a witch?
(05:26):
Because we all have our own understanding of what a witch
is, and both of that, all of that is inspired by both the
myth of and the fantastic natureof witchcraft.
But it's also inspired by the real history.
And the first Floor explores this question by putting our
(05:50):
guests in 1650s Springfield and exploring different aspects of
life in the 1650s. In this area.
There's a space dedicated to a recreation of a kitchen in
colonial Springfield with a livecrack, not quite live, but with
a crackling fire. And there's a different area
(06:12):
that explores the jobs that would have been common for the
colonists to have, and then a different area dedicated to the
colonists relationship with the afterlife.
But concluding this area, we thought it was important to
bring the story up to the modernday.
And so there's a section dedicated to the many witches of
(06:32):
our pop culture and the witches of our world today.
Because while most of us might think that witchcraft is
something of history, there are many witches and each of us has
a favorite and each of us has a reason why.
So the first floor is setting upthis question, what is a witch?
And offers a lot of avenues to explore that question based on
(06:56):
history and based on the fantastic ideas.
But as people move upstairs, it's upstairs that we explore
and dive deep into this specificstory of Mary Louis Parsons and
Hugh Parsons and set up the story for our guests to
experience. I'm so excited.
(07:17):
I really hope that I get the opportunity to come experience
this before it's over. Can you tell us?
You talked about the daily livesof those in the 1650s.
Can you talk us? Through the daily.
Lives of Marion Hill before the accusations began, and what were
they like as neighbors and community members?
(07:39):
Yes. So Springfield's story is quite
unique, especially when you compare it to other colonial
sediments in New England at thattime, because it was settled as
basically a company town. It was designed for trade.
And so it wasn't this transplanted congregation like
so many other early settlements at that time.
(08:01):
And So what that meant is that the people who moved here didn't
automatically have that communalrelation that many other
communities had. When Mary Louis, when she first
moved to Springfield, she workedwith William Pension's daughter
and Smith, taking care of some of their daughters, some of the
(08:23):
Smith children. And Hugh Parsons was actually
recruited specifically by Pension and other town leaders
because he had a very important skill, which was brick making.
Now, at a time when most houses were made of wood, it makes a
lot of sense that Brooks were a hot commodity, so to speak, and
(08:43):
it was important. And it basically elevated the
town status to have this brick maker in town.
And brick chimneys became a status symbol quite quickly.
The problem was, so the town needed Hugh because they needed
Hugh's skills. But Hugh Parsons was a bit of a
(09:04):
character by all accounts. He had a tendency to do what at
the time were called sleeveless errands, which is basically an
unexpected visit to a neighbor without a real reason.
There's many, many records and memories of him basically just
showing up at neighbors houses and they would answer the door,
(09:28):
ask what he wanted, but he was just filling time and space.
And it didn't really sit the societal expectations of
behavior in colonial New England.
And in her own way, Mary Parsonswas also somewhat of a known
entity in Springfield because she was a deeply religious woman
and very devout in her faith. But she in this story, she
(09:53):
basically tried to find the answers to all these mysterious
happenings in Springfield herself.
And she thought that she had found it in one of her
neighbors, Mercy Marshfield. But that earlier accusation
actually wasn't taken by WilliamPension and the rest of the town
as a true witchcraft accusation,even though it was taken as
(10:17):
slander. And Mercy Marshfield wrought
slander charges against Mary Parsons.
And that meant not only did the debt of the Parsons family
increase, but that meant that everyone in town started
wondering, why is Mary Parsons asking questions about witches?
Why does Mary Parsons know so much about witchcraft?
(10:39):
And so they were normal people, the Parsons.
They had their own hopes and dreams, and both Mary and Hugh
moved to Springfield for new opportunities.
But because of many situations and many details that all added
up, they found themselves being accused of witchcraft.
(11:00):
How did the rumors and sort of whispers of witchcraft turn into
full blown accusations that consumed the town?
Yes, in the exhibit witch Panic Massachusetts before Salem, the
second floor of this exhibit that I've explained is actually
organized in a way that we present that question to our
(11:24):
guests. So we introduce Springfield in
1650s and we introduce the real people involved in this story.
But then we invite our visitors to review the evidence
themselves. And the space is organized that
we break down each of the accusations into different
(11:48):
pieces of evidence and then it'sorganized chronologically.
Some of these details aren't really defined to a specific
time, like huge sleeveless errands.
They happened a lot, and Mary Parsons devout faith and her
feelings on witchcraft spanned time.
(12:08):
But there were other pieces of evidence that were very
specific. And the exhibit is organized so
that guests are invited to act as the grand jury, and they're
actually invited to pass judgement themselves before the
ultimate end of the story is revealed.
And as you experience this exhibit, there's 15 pieces of
(12:32):
evidence that are outlined throughout the space.
And it can be pinpointed to beginning in 1648 with the
deaths of two of the Smith children, Sarah and Margaret
Smith. They died in June of 1648.
And the Smith children were William Pynchon's
(12:54):
granddaughters. And they fell I'll the entire
town prayed, but they passed. And that bothered people in the
town because if these were the town's founders granddaughters,
so in a sense, if they were not safe from this illness and
(13:15):
mysterious evil, no one was. And so over the course of almost
three years, these events were unfolding in Springfield and
around the area, and people wanted to know, why are bowels
mysteriously missing? Why are people going to sleep
(13:37):
and seeing visions every night? These questions kept building
and building over time until basically they blew up and led
to the accusations of Mary and Hugh Parsons.
This story is really gripping and when you start talking about
(13:57):
those 15 evidences and then openwith the illness, that is
something that we see across history and a lot of these
stories, but it's there is so much more to it.
As you mentioned, the culture ofthe community, why they're
there, why are they brought together and all of the things.
I can't imagine how powerful this exhibit is actually to your
(14:22):
guests and the community becauseyou're taking what they think
they know or what they enjoy about pop culture with evidences
they've heard about it. But getting to walk through that
story, that's amazing. And one of my favorite parts of
the story, on the lighter side, even though it was very serious,
(14:44):
is the pudding. How the pudding turns out, I
just love that. Is that included in the exhibit?
Yes, of course, the spoiled pudding.
Just so everyone's on the same page on February 21st, 1651.
So this was only 6 days before Hugh Parsons was arrested.
Five days before Mary Parsons was arrested, the Langdon
(15:05):
family, Hannah Langdon tried to make a kind of pudding and it
didn't come out. It was called a bag pudding and
it basically didn't come out of the bag as one whole piece like
it's supposed to. It was split from end to end.
And the quote is as if a knife had cut it.
And it was this split pudding that just was adding to this
(15:31):
suspicion. But that story I thought was
very important to include because it's an instance where
you can see how the social standings of the Parsons worked
against them because the puddingfailed, and the Langdons
actually decided to conduct a bit of witchcraft themselves and
(15:53):
threw a bit of the failed pudding in the fire.
This was not something you were supposed to do in Puritan
Massachusetts, but they wanted answers.
And supposedly the first person to knock on your door is the
witch who cursed that pudding. But the first person who knocked
on the door was Bess Sewell, a different neighbor.
(16:15):
And so the Langdons basically just decided that Bess really
wasn't the one who did the breadpudding.
And so the story goes that Bess came in, and they basically all
huddled in the house and waited for another knock on the door.
And under the cover of dark, they heard some shuffling
outside of the door. And who knocked on the door?
(16:37):
But who? Parsons.
It sounds like there was an awful lot of evidence presented
against them. Evidence of witchcraft, evidence
of at least odd behavior, Eccentricity, definitely, But a
lot more testimonies were submitted than what you get.
(16:58):
Even in some of the Salem cases.It's one person making the
accusation, and then maybe you get a second person before they
do the conviction, but it's onlya couple things and they're
ready to convict you. Where Springfield?
It sounds like they were kind ofreluctant to get a case going
(17:19):
and it took like all of this to build.
Up yes and I I wonder if the Mary Louis Parsons accusation of
Mercy Marshfield plays a part ofthat because before that
accusation people might have felt things about Mary Parsons,
but they weren't speaking openlyabout why does she know so much
(17:39):
about witchcraft? And in in Puritan New England,
you were expected to adhere to some strict societal
expectations. But if you point out other
people's transgressions of thosequote, UN quote rules, then
you're all the more likely to bethe target of that scrutiny
(18:03):
yourself. And so it was this back and
forth and balancing act. In 1645, which is the year that
the Hugh and Mary got married, the town of Springfield only had
about 100 people in it. And we've all been in situations
amongst 100 people. And that's not a lot of people,
(18:24):
but rumors and these feelings ofjust unease can spread really
easily. And it was one of those
situations that bad things were happening and they wanted to
know who was responsible. The way rumors spread in like a
small group, it just reminded meof, you know, work school.
(18:47):
We know how rumors spread in even the smallest workplace.
People are gossiping about each other.
So, you know, it's we can all relate to some degree.
Very much so. Earlier you mentioned this book
that was banned. Can you tell us about that and
(19:08):
did Cotton Mather have it too orwhat's the story on that?
Yes, there are two objects displayed in this exhibit.
One of them is pewter Candlestick that William Pynchon
owned because he also founded Roxbury before he moved out West
to Springfield. But the other object is a book
(19:29):
called The Meritorious Price of Our Redemption, and this was
William Pension's publication. William Pension, his trade, he
was a tradesman and was quite a wealthy man and was also very
powerful. As I said, Springfield was
founded differently than other colonial towns.
(19:50):
But what that meant is that Springfield was essentially
William Pension's company town. He ran it, he oversaw everyone's
debts and he invited people to live there.
But he also served as the town magistrate and so he was very
wealthy and powerful and Springfield was his town.
(20:10):
But he was also very educated and he fancied himself a bit of
a theologian, an amateur. 1 And it was the mid 1600's.
The printing press had made a massive impact in Europe when it
comes to the spread of information.
And so pamphlets started becoming much more prevalent
(20:32):
because they were easier to produce on Mass.
And so William Pynchon, amateur theologian, decided to write
what he titled The Meritorious Price of Our Redemption.
And the book itself is an analysis and arguments relating
to the death of Christ. Pynchon was arguing that the
(20:55):
death of Jesus Christ in the Christian religion, it was not
Jesus's death that gave Christians their everlasting
life and freed everyone from original sin, but rather it was
Jesus Christ's strict adherence to the words of his Father.
So it was placing the role of the Father and the Son much more
(21:18):
prevalent in the story of Christand Christian's foundings.
However, the Puritan leaders of Massachusetts did not like this
interpretation at all. And in fact, it was originally
published in London and it immediately started drawing
(21:40):
attention. And by the time it arrived on
the shores of New England, it faced the judgement of Boston
General Counsel and they found the text to be heretical.
And so the text became one of the first banned books in
English North America, and it was burned on the shores of
(22:02):
Boston, which means that there are not many copies left that
exist in the world. To our understanding, there are
only 9 that exist, and the Springfield Museums is lucky
enough to have one. And this book is important for
all of the reasons I just explained, but it intersects
(22:23):
with this story in two ways. The first way is the fact that
William Pension himself was accused of heresy, which meant
that he had to face the the Boston judges himself.
We haven't dove deep into the specifics of Mary and Hughes
story, but their case started inSpringfield and eventually had
(22:46):
to be moved to Boston, in part because of the large scale of
the accusations, but in part because also William pension.
After his publication and his book was banned, his status in
the Commonwealth started to falter.
People started wondering is he really a good leader if he is
(23:08):
publishing heretical texts? And so Mary Louis Parsons faced
the Boston General Court in May of 1651.
And that happened in the morning.
And it was that very same afternoon that William Pension
(23:28):
faced accusations of heresy for the book publication.
And so essentially William Pension went to Boston and in
the morning he served as prosecutor against Mary Louis
Parsons for the witchcraft and murder trial.
And then in the afternoon, he basically switched sides and was
(23:48):
the defendant in his own case. And because of the outcome of
the book burning, he was orderedto basically apologize and take
it back. He actually basically withdrew
from his role as a leader of Springfield, and within a year,
he left Springfield and passed off all of the leadership roles
(24:13):
to his son-in-law. And this witchcraft trial
directly impacted the trajectoryof Springfield because it led to
the founder of Springfield leaving, which, of course,
changed what might have happened.
And so these two stories of the book and the witch trial, you
cannot separate. They're directly intertwined.
(24:37):
But another reason why this bookis important and so special is
because the copy that we have ondisplay at the Springfield
Museums was once owned by CottonMather.
And the way we know that is thathe signed it in the cover and he
dated it 1673. And obviously I don't, I can't
(25:02):
say this for certain, but because it was Cotton Mather and
because of that date, it is highly likely that Cotton Mather
knew the story of the Parsons and knew what happened to
William Pynchon as he was entering the the phase of Salem.
(25:25):
1673, Cotton Mather was a kid atthat time.
I think he was. I believe he was born about
1663, So yeah. Yes, then.
But he got an early start at Harvard.
Though yes, yes, and I found it fascinating he signed his name
in like the Latin version and sohe added some like ous to the
(25:49):
end of his names. Cotton, Miss Mather as well.
That is so. Awesome, love it.
Yeah, and you brought up Salem. How do you see impacts from this
history? I'm also curious what kind of
feedback you get from guests or colleagues as you're looking at
(26:13):
the Parsons story and then thinking about Salem as.
Well, so as I'm sure many of us have heard already, in Malcolm
Gaskell's book, The Ruin of All Witches, he argues, and in all
of my research, I also argue that what happened in
Springfield is quite unique whenyou compare it to earlier
(26:37):
accusations of witchcraft. Because this is not the first
accusation of witchcraft in Massachusetts, but it's the
first time that this panic and this sense of terror and fear
that was being funneled towards witches and witch finding the
source of witchcraft, it overtook the town completely.
(27:02):
I mentioned that there's 6-15 pieces of evidence.
That's only a sampling of what was provided.
I couldn't fit everything because of space and just focus.
And I was trying to streamline the story.
And so in the story in Springfield in 1651, you have
(27:24):
the first witch panic in what became the United States.
And that sets up the scene for every other mass panic relating
to witches that came after. And So what happened to
Springfield and what happened tothe Parsons laid the groundwork
(27:49):
essentially that ultimately led to and essentially concluded
with the Salem witch trials. I actually.
Want to put Springfield into a little bit of context with you.
You mentioned the witch trials that happened just before the
Hugh Parsons and Mary Louis Parsons case came up.
(28:12):
Springfield is in the Connecticut River Valley, so
it's just up the river from towns like Windsor, CT,
Hartford, CT, where Windsor had had the first execution for
witchcraft just in 1647 of AliceYoung.
And then you go over to Boston and there's, I believe three
(28:33):
women are executed before the Parsons go to trial.
There's Margaret Jones, Elizabeth Kendall and Alice Lake
over there. So there were a few, but they
were all, like you said, they were one off 1 suspect, not a
group of suspects like what you see in Springfield, which is why
(28:54):
it's considered a panic. But geographically, it's in like
a fertile area where a lot of, like, witchcraft suspicions are
being bandied about at the time,Yeah.
It also it adds to that sense ofunease because there were
indigenous communities surrounding Springfield and
(29:15):
that's part a large reason why it was economically successful
in the fur trade because of the extraction of natural resources.
But it was also quite isolated from Hartford and Windsor and
from it was 100 miles away from Boston and it was isolated from
other European formed communities.
(29:37):
And so that added to the sense of unease because it was it was
quite remote and it was a small town trying to survive.
I'm so happy even though I've been there and I can just, you
know, what I know of the historyand what you've shared about
what you've put together. I love the journey you're taking
(29:57):
guests on to learn about the local history and to understand
these accusations more. How do people feel when they're
leaving? Is it like, 'cause it is a sad
story, but it also helps us understand ourselves more is do
you? What kind of reflections are
people coming out? Yes.
(30:19):
It's one it depends on which part of the exhibit, because the
entire exhibit is designed to beinteractive, both physically in
sections, but also mentally and get you thinking basically.
And when it comes to the first floor area that this question of
(30:40):
what is a which there are a lot of opportunities for individuals
to explore that question. Because I thought throughout
this story, I wanted to center the humanness of the Parsons
because in in doing all of this research and exploring their
(31:00):
story, it's so easy to see them as witches because that's how
history remembers them. But they were human beings
first. And so that's why I thought it
was important to explore Springfield in 1650s.
What is the reality of the setting behind this witchcraft
(31:21):
trial? And it was, it's through that
setting that we can explore questions like, where did the
pointy hats come from? What about the cauldrons and
these broomsticks? And so when it comes to the
first floor of the exhibit and the question, what is a witch,
we're getting a lot of interaction and responses with
(31:41):
people engaging with that that idea and that question.
And they're maybe asking themselves about what makes
their favorite witch from pop culture a witch versus, say,
another sorcerer or sorceress. And that's one level of
interaction and reflection you've been getting.
(32:03):
But as the story continues to the second floor and focuses on
the Parsons story, I thought just like how we continued the
what is a which conversation to the present day with exploration
of pop culture, I thought it wasimportant to extend the
conversation about what happenedto the Parsons to now as best as
(32:26):
possible. And so the story of after the
evidence is laid out and we reveal what happened to the
Parsons, there is a wall that's dedicated to the names of all
the individuals that were accused of witchcraft in
Massachusetts. That makes me so happy to hear.
Yes, because and. We've capitalized and bolded
(32:50):
Mary Louis Parsons names and Hugh Parsons name.
But there are only two names in this sea of names, and every
single name has a story like this.
And every single name was a person with goals and hopes and
dreams whose life was impacted by this fear.
(33:13):
And ultimately, the conclusion of that space ends with a detail
about how this was first reported by the Guardian.
And in 2019, three indigenous young women were Two of them
were expelled and one of them was left with a warning by their
local Arizona school because they did some of their
(33:37):
traditional ceremonial practicesand the school found it to be
satanic. And so this fear of difference
and otherness is still very mucharound and present.
Nowadays we think of witches as something either in the movies
and TV or something in colonial New England.
(33:59):
But the fear and the panic that makes the Parson story happened
the way that it did is still something that we all interact
with today. That's so important that you
cover that there's so much that we need to learn from the witch
trials and how our ancestors handled fear.
(34:21):
And then you look at a case likethat one in Arizona, which is
where I happen to live, that's acouple hours drive from your
that school. And it's so terrible.
We're so quick to label things as satanic or other enemy.
We need to learn from these witch trials.
(34:41):
It's so important. In the second floor gallery, we
also provide a space for our visitors to pass judgement after
they've reviewed the evidence against the Parsons.
And it's just a simple question.Do you find the defendant, Mary
Parsons guilty or not guilty? Do you find Hugh Parsons guilty
(35:03):
or not guilty? And going into this and
organizing this exhibit, I was genuinely concerned that people
wouldn't answer and engage with that question because of this
idea that which is how could they have believed all of this?
But I am, I'm blown away with the responses that we've gotten
(35:25):
and these papers that people arewriting their answers on.
It's very clear that they're engaging with the story, and the
thing about museum exhibits is that you need to tell the story
in a way that people don't need to read every single detail, but
they're still able to take away something.
(35:46):
And it's obvious that people aretaking away this message.
Well done hearing about the components in the scope of the
story that the overall story of what is a witch and the person's
you're giving guests an opportunity to relate to what
they're familiar with pop culture, witchcraft, fantasy.
(36:07):
And then there's this education piece.
Here's a story about people justa little couple centuries back
who lived here and what happenedin the community.
And then your final, they're giving more reflection, giving
them a story out of the news that they're probably familiar
(36:27):
with, not necessarily, but they can go read more.
And it's just giving. There's so many great ways to
bring people to understand witchcraft accusations.
And I really love what you've done.
So I'm so appreciative. You mentioned that this was a
first large exhibit like this inyour community.
(36:49):
And I really think as far as what is available here in the
US, it's a first because it's very different.
It's a different presentation. And I'm so grateful that you
have it going until this fall. Thank you for to you and your
team for giving this really creative presentation in your
(37:10):
museum. And I love what museums have the
opportunity to do. And so thank you.
Thank you for all of those very kind words.
That means a lot because you guys are the expert when it
comes to these stories. And as I said before, as you're
reading the stories of the Parsons, what drew me in was
their humanity. The fact that Mary Lewis was
(37:34):
first married around the age of 17 and her first husband
abandoned her, but she wasn't able to get a divorce.
And how she fought in the ways that she could to establish this
new life in Springfield and how Hugh Parsons had this vision of
his life and how he wanted it togo.
(37:55):
And it makes all of the details very human.
And so throughout the exhibit, we're striving to bring that
humanity 1st. And so the introduction to the
exhibition on the 2nd floor is actually 2 silhouettes, 2
outlines that represent Mary Louis Parsons and Hugh Parsons.
(38:20):
Because I thought it was important for you to be greeted
with their humanity 1st and thenyou can hear the accusations
against them after you've quote UN quote met them as people.
Yeah, I mean, I just love what you're doing with bringing the
humanity forward. That's what we try to do with
(38:42):
the show, is to show that both the accused and the accusers
were humans like us. They have the same wants and
needs and desires and fears. And, you know, they respond in a
lot of the same ways that we respond to things.
Thanks for answering this question with your work.
(39:04):
Is there anything else you wouldlike to share today?
I just want to say again, thank you both for having me here.
You're doing very important workbecause as we've covered, which
trials might not happen anymore,but the fear and the panic and
this sense of unease that we often, that is often perpetuated
(39:26):
is very much still in our society.
And so thank you for the work that you do in trying to have
these conversations and bring attention to the fact that the
people in the past are human andjust like us.
Thank you so much for being heretalking to us today.
Can you just remind the audiencewhen the exhibit is running and
(39:49):
how they can get tickets and allthat?
Which panic Massachusetts beforeSalem is at the Wood Museum of
Springfield History, which is one of the five museums at the
Springfield Museums. So if you're interested, I would
invite you to visit www.springfieldmuseums.org to
learn more about our exhibit, but also our many museums and
(40:10):
all of the amazing programs we have to offer.
The exhibit itself is open untilNovember 2nd, so there is.
If you're coming through the area over the summer and into
the fall. There is plenty of time to learn
a little bit more about Springfield and step foot in
what Mary and Hugh Parsons mighthave experienced.
(40:34):
Don't forget to try out our new podcast, The Thing About Salem.
It's perfect for listening to onyour ride over to Springfield.
Have a great today and a beautiful tomorrow.
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