January 15, 2024 • 15 mins
Does the phrase "All is fair in love and war" hold true when the going gets tough in our ministry and personal lives? In this episode I am challenging the notion of "All is fair in love and war", opening up the room for a raw and real conversation on the pressures of being a woman in ministry, and how our bad days affect our loved ones. Drawing on personal experiences within a congregation conflict, I highlight the implications of telling half-truths to manipulate situations. Trust me, no one is off the hook here – if you're a man in ministry, I welcome you to this crucial conversation. Let's together find better ways to handle stress and pressure, without unfairly projecting our feelings onto others.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tilded Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not.
And how in the world to dealwith that?
And men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:47):
The old saying is all's fair inlove and war.
Really, is that really true?
You know, sometimes the peopleclosest to us have to bear the
brunt of the everyday and thenot best parts of us, and we
(01:09):
have to remember that they'rethe people who tell us they love
us and that doesn't mean it'sfair to give them the worst of
us.
I can't tell you how many timesthat there have been where I've
had a lousy day and then myhusband comes and says something
(01:34):
and that can just send me offin a direction that I really
wish I hadn't gone and it's kindof like letting him have it and
that's not fair to him.
Just because I'm having a lousyday Maybe I didn't sleep so
well, maybe I'm tired, cranky,whatever it may be, you know,
(01:56):
it's not fair to dump onsomebody we love.
That's not fair at all.
That's not what it means to beall's fair in love and war.
And if that's what it does mean, no, that's not fair.
I mean I don't like it whensomebody else does that to me.
They're having a lousy day,maybe they don't feel well,
(02:19):
maybe haven't slept well, hadall kinds of other people
dumping on them and then dump onme as an outlet to what they're
feeling?
No, none of us likes to be theones dumped on, and so why would
we think it's okay to do thatto someone else?
(02:41):
And so, no, not all is fair inlove and we can think about that
in other respects too.
Is it fair to kind of be?
How can I put this?
To try and get somebody's loveto do things to win them over?
(03:07):
It's tempting, and we want tobe nice to them.
We want to do that.
But to take it away fromsomebody else or to take their
attention off of someone else?
Yeah, is that fair to do?
To try to be someone or dosomething that we know will
(03:33):
please them?
Yeah, we want to please them.
But if it's done in order tomanipulate somebody, that's not
fair.
It's never fair to bemanipulative of other people.
And if we think that's not fairin love, then you know when
(03:54):
things are not going well andthere is a sense of conflict,
and this can mean literal warbetween nations.
It can also mean when peopleare angry with one another,
whether in a family or within afaith community or you know any
(04:16):
other place like that.
Is it fair to do someunderhanded kinds of things or
tell only part of the story,part of the truth?
I think about that and thinkabout a situation that I
(04:37):
experienced in serving as apastor and there was a conflict
within the congregation, and itwas over of all things, where
someone was buried in the churchcemetery and there was a group
of people who took the side ofthe person who was upset about
(05:04):
where somebody else had beenburied and that person who was
upset wanted the congregationexcuse me, wanted to force the
congregation on board to requirethat the deceased be exhumed
(05:25):
and reburied someplace else, atthe expense of the widow of the
man who died.
And in trying to get theirpoint across and to get other
people to feel the same way thatthey did, they sat around a
petition and it told part of thestory, but not quite all of it,
(05:51):
as to what had happened and howthings had you know why things
were the way they were.
And then to get people to signtheir petition, they called just
the members who they believedwould sign the petition.
(06:12):
There were other members whothey did not call, and so they
had quite a number of names onthis petition.
And as we talked with some ofthe people to hear what they
thought they were signing tohave done and why, found out
(06:35):
that well, they hadn't heardquite all of the story.
And so sometimes in those kindsof disputes or wars of words
and wills, we don't quite sayeverything.
We say only the things thatprove or bolster up our own
(07:03):
position.
We don't want to share, ofcourse, not anything that other
people would see, as perhaps youknow, verifying in everything
the position of the other side,the other person, the other side
of the argument.
That's not fair either.
(07:24):
And then there are times wherethere are literal conflicts
between nations.
And you know, in literalliteral wars, no, not all is
fair.
There are rules of warfaresurprising as it may seem, but
(07:51):
there are.
They've been decided by theGeneva Convention.
It came a lot of that came outof what happened in World War II
and some of the practices thatwere utilized by, especially by
Germany during World War II thatwere very destructive very
(08:20):
destructive is the kindest andnicest word I can use for it.
But they were very, verydeliberately trying to do things
to get rid of a lot of peopleand to take over a lot of
territory, and that was not fair.
(08:42):
It impacted a lot of civilianpeople who had nothing to do
with the conflict.
They were in no way trying tohurt anybody within the
government of Germany or in anyother government.
They were not at war withGermany, but German leadership
(09:09):
under Hitler decided to be atwar with them and that was not
fair because as civilians,including children, they had no
way to fight back.
They had no possibility ofdoing things to protect
themselves, even, and many timesthey couldn't even escape to
(09:35):
try and protect themselves ortheir families.
So that's not fair.
It's not fair to take civiliansand use them as ammunition, so
to speak in warfare.
(09:56):
It's been decided by the GenevaConvention as no, that's not
fair.
So, no, not everything is fairin war either.
Not everything is fair when wedisagree with people
individually.
It's not fair between thestates of this country to do
(10:20):
things that hurt civilians, thepeople of their state, or that
can be discriminatory towardspeople of other states who might
be visiting or passing throughthe state.
There are things that justplain aren't fair, and not only
(10:45):
are they not fair, but if wereally think about them as
people of faith, we know thatthey would not be things that
God would approve of God spiritor universe, that that is not
the way of God.
(11:05):
So, as we think that old sayingall's fair in love and war, no,
it's not true.
It is definitely not true.
Going through Christian andJewish scripture and I'm not
well enough, first in the Quranto know about Muslim scripture
(11:28):
but in at least Jewish andChristian scriptures, god is
first and foremost a God of loveand of mercy and of grace.
That's what's most fair.
That's what is the way Godwants the world to work.
No, we don't always make that.
(11:50):
That's part of the reason thatour halos are all so tilted.
We don't always do that, butthere's always a chance and the
possibility that we can dobetter, that we can think about
that and say no, I guess I waswrong, and to apologize and ask
(12:11):
for forgiveness and to notengage in the practices to begin
with, that, yeah, it maybolster our position.
But to think about you know,what does that do to somebody
else?
And the truth is all too oftenwe don't care about somebody
(12:34):
else and that's why we do thethings we do becomes a power
struggle.
It becomes an I'm right, you'rewrong.
That's not the faith statementthat God is asking of any of us,
of the way of looking at ourworld and of, you know, being
(12:59):
people.
It's not about being king ofthe hill and pushing everybody
else off.
Who we can push off, just so wecan stand up at the highest
point.
No, so is all fair and love andwar?
My answer would be no.
The only thing that's fair islove.
(13:19):
Love is the fairest of all, andsometimes it doesn't seem like
it, but that is the estimationthat, as people of faith, is the
most direct thing that bringsus in relationship with God and
(13:41):
then positive relationships witheach other.
So this is the tilted halo and,yes, mine slides off about this
stuff too, but we still need tothink about it and talk about
it and look for new ways andbetter ways to be.
So until next time, I inviteyou to think about how you can
(14:07):
be more fair in love than inanything else, and doing it not
to manipulate, but to do itreally out of the grace and love
that you know you want toreceive and that others around
(14:31):
you would like to receive too.
So peace, blessings, and comeback next time.
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
(14:52):
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry life, mindset and a
whole lot more, go towwwTiltedHaloHelpcom, where I've
got a resource guide and otherresources waiting for you, and
be sure to say hi to me,kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
Welcome to the Tilded Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not.
And how in the world to dealwith that?
And men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:47):
The old saying is all's fair inlove and war.
Really, is that really true?
You know, sometimes the peopleclosest to us have to bear the
brunt of the everyday and thenot best parts of us, and we
(01:09):
have to remember that they'rethe people who tell us they love
us and that doesn't mean it'sfair to give them the worst of
us.
I can't tell you how many timesthat there have been where I've
had a lousy day and then myhusband comes and says something
(01:34):
and that can just send me offin a direction that I really
wish I hadn't gone and it's kindof like letting him have it and
that's not fair to him.
Just because I'm having a lousyday Maybe I didn't sleep so
well, maybe I'm tired, cranky,whatever it may be, you know,
(01:56):
it's not fair to dump onsomebody we love.
That's not fair at all.
That's not what it means to beall's fair in love and war.
And if that's what it does mean, no, that's not fair.
I mean I don't like it whensomebody else does that to me.
They're having a lousy day,maybe they don't feel well,
(02:19):
maybe haven't slept well, hadall kinds of other people
dumping on them and then dump onme as an outlet to what they're
feeling?
No, none of us likes to be theones dumped on, and so why would
we think it's okay to do thatto someone else?
(02:41):
And so, no, not all is fair inlove and we can think about that
in other respects too.
Is it fair to kind of be?
How can I put this?
To try and get somebody's loveto do things to win them over?
(03:07):
It's tempting, and we want tobe nice to them.
We want to do that.
But to take it away fromsomebody else or to take their
attention off of someone else?
Yeah, is that fair to do?
To try to be someone or dosomething that we know will
(03:33):
please them?
Yeah, we want to please them.
But if it's done in order tomanipulate somebody, that's not
fair.
It's never fair to bemanipulative of other people.
And if we think that's not fairin love, then you know when
(03:54):
things are not going well andthere is a sense of conflict,
and this can mean literal warbetween nations.
It can also mean when peopleare angry with one another,
whether in a family or within afaith community or you know any
(04:16):
other place like that.
Is it fair to do someunderhanded kinds of things or
tell only part of the story,part of the truth?
I think about that and thinkabout a situation that I
(04:37):
experienced in serving as apastor and there was a conflict
within the congregation, and itwas over of all things, where
someone was buried in the churchcemetery and there was a group
of people who took the side ofthe person who was upset about
(05:04):
where somebody else had beenburied and that person who was
upset wanted the congregationexcuse me, wanted to force the
congregation on board to requirethat the deceased be exhumed
(05:25):
and reburied someplace else, atthe expense of the widow of the
man who died.
And in trying to get theirpoint across and to get other
people to feel the same way thatthey did, they sat around a
petition and it told part of thestory, but not quite all of it,
(05:51):
as to what had happened and howthings had you know why things
were the way they were.
And then to get people to signtheir petition, they called just
the members who they believedwould sign the petition.
(06:12):
There were other members whothey did not call, and so they
had quite a number of names onthis petition.
And as we talked with some ofthe people to hear what they
thought they were signing tohave done and why, found out
(06:35):
that well, they hadn't heardquite all of the story.
And so sometimes in those kindsof disputes or wars of words
and wills, we don't quite sayeverything.
We say only the things thatprove or bolster up our own
(07:03):
position.
We don't want to share, ofcourse, not anything that other
people would see, as perhaps youknow, verifying in everything
the position of the other side,the other person, the other side
of the argument.
That's not fair either.
(07:24):
And then there are times wherethere are literal conflicts
between nations.
And you know, in literalliteral wars, no, not all is
fair.
There are rules of warfaresurprising as it may seem, but
(07:51):
there are.
They've been decided by theGeneva Convention.
It came a lot of that came outof what happened in World War II
and some of the practices thatwere utilized by, especially by
Germany during World War II thatwere very destructive very
(08:20):
destructive is the kindest andnicest word I can use for it.
But they were very, verydeliberately trying to do things
to get rid of a lot of peopleand to take over a lot of
territory, and that was not fair.
(08:42):
It impacted a lot of civilianpeople who had nothing to do
with the conflict.
They were in no way trying tohurt anybody within the
government of Germany or in anyother government.
They were not at war withGermany, but German leadership
(09:09):
under Hitler decided to be atwar with them and that was not
fair because as civilians,including children, they had no
way to fight back.
They had no possibility ofdoing things to protect
themselves, even, and many timesthey couldn't even escape to
(09:35):
try and protect themselves ortheir families.
So that's not fair.
It's not fair to take civiliansand use them as ammunition, so
to speak in warfare.
(09:56):
It's been decided by the GenevaConvention as no, that's not
fair.
So, no, not everything is fairin war either.
Not everything is fair when wedisagree with people
individually.
It's not fair between thestates of this country to do
(10:20):
things that hurt civilians, thepeople of their state, or that
can be discriminatory towardspeople of other states who might
be visiting or passing throughthe state.
There are things that justplain aren't fair, and not only
(10:45):
are they not fair, but if wereally think about them as
people of faith, we know thatthey would not be things that
God would approve of God spiritor universe, that that is not
the way of God.
(11:05):
So, as we think that old sayingall's fair in love and war, no,
it's not true.
It is definitely not true.
Going through Christian andJewish scripture and I'm not
well enough, first in the Quranto know about Muslim scripture
(11:28):
but in at least Jewish andChristian scriptures, god is
first and foremost a God of loveand of mercy and of grace.
That's what's most fair.
That's what is the way Godwants the world to work.
No, we don't always make that.
(11:50):
That's part of the reason thatour halos are all so tilted.
We don't always do that, butthere's always a chance and the
possibility that we can dobetter, that we can think about
that and say no, I guess I waswrong, and to apologize and ask
(12:11):
for forgiveness and to notengage in the practices to begin
with, that, yeah, it maybolster our position.
But to think about you know,what does that do to somebody
else?
And the truth is all too oftenwe don't care about somebody
(12:34):
else and that's why we do thethings we do becomes a power
struggle.
It becomes an I'm right, you'rewrong.
That's not the faith statementthat God is asking of any of us,
of the way of looking at ourworld and of, you know, being
(12:59):
people.
It's not about being king ofthe hill and pushing everybody
else off.
Who we can push off, just so wecan stand up at the highest
point.
No, so is all fair and love andwar?
My answer would be no.
The only thing that's fair islove.
(13:19):
Love is the fairest of all, andsometimes it doesn't seem like
it, but that is the estimationthat, as people of faith, is the
most direct thing that bringsus in relationship with God and
(13:41):
then positive relationships witheach other.
So this is the tilted halo and,yes, mine slides off about this
stuff too, but we still need tothink about it and talk about
it and look for new ways andbetter ways to be.
So until next time, I inviteyou to think about how you can
(14:07):
be more fair in love than inanything else, and doing it not
to manipulate, but to do itreally out of the grace and love
that you know you want toreceive and that others around
(14:31):
you would like to receive too.
So peace, blessings, and comeback next time.
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
(14:52):
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry life, mindset and a
whole lot more, go towwwTiltedHaloHelpcom, where I've
got a resource guide and otherresources waiting for you, and
be sure to say hi to me,kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
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