January 22, 2024 • 27 mins
What happens when our spiritual beliefs clash with our identity? In this episode, Matt Gill, from DO THE DAMN THING Productions, talks about his story, sharing with me the struggle of being a gay man in a devout Christian family. His journey of self-discovery, highlights the crucial role of acceptance within faith communities and reveals the harmful effects of judgment and condemnation. We'll talk about managing insecurities, the power of God's love, and the unique strength found in vulnerability, emphasizing how important sharing our individual stories is in uplifting others. This episode concludes with a reminder of how important it is to keep a strong connection with God as your foundation while navigating life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tilded Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not, and how in the world
to deal with that?
And, men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:45):
Welcome to another edition ofthe Tilded Halo, and I am so
delighted to have a very specialguest with me today Matt Gill
Hi, chief of what is your exacttitle?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm the production director for Do the Damn Thing
Productions.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I knew it had to do something.
Like production director, Iwanted to get it right.
Got to know Matt, so what wasit about three years ago?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
something like that.
Yes, man.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And in working with Tiffany, who is head of Tiffany
Largy, and Do the Damn Thing andall that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
She is the CEO of Do the Damn Thing, but actually
Tiffany Largy BusinessStrategies is kind of the name
of our company here.
She's the one who created Dothe Damn Thing and the movement
of Do the Damn Thing, which hasbrought both of us together.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Right and the idea is doing the business and the
dreams that we really want to do, which is partly how I got to
doing this wonderful podcasthere in the DTDT studio.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And Matt, you've got a powerful story that's, I think
, really important for people offaith and faith communities to
hear, because number one ispersonal and it's your story
Right.
Number two it can help, I hopepeople understand the impact
(02:25):
that faith, both positively andnot so positively, can have when
we become judgmental Right Inmany respects.
So I don't know exactly whereor how young you want to start
your story, but you know, I grewup in a very close private
(02:52):
Christian family.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So growing up I went to church every Sunday.
I went to a private Christianschool.
I was one of those.
So I love microphones, whichdoesn't surprise me why I went
into production, because I hadalways.
I always felt very comfortable,either behind a microphone, in
front of a camera or on stage infront of an audience Like to me
, that feels home, that feelscomfortable.
(03:16):
I would go to Sunday school andI would come home and I would
go out and I pretend like I wasa preacher and everything that I
just learned in Bible study.
I would regurgitate in my ownway and pretend like I had an
audience.
Growing up, my parents felt.
My mom always thought I wasgoing to be a news reporter and
my dad thought I was going to bea youth minister.
(03:37):
Oh, and what I love is I get todo both almost in how I get to
sooth the world.
Now, growing up, god and therelationship with God has always
been incredibly important to me.
I always felt the presence ofGod, I felt his guidance, I felt
(03:58):
his word and I was veryinvolved in church, both during
school.
After school.
I was one of the drama kidsthat were in all of the plays
and the musicals, and so I spenta lot of time in church and
around church.
What became a struggle is theolder I got, I realized that I
(04:23):
felt different.
I felt different than otherpeople.
We were taught that being gaywas wrong.
We were taught that if you aregay, you're going to hell.
We were taught that being gayis a choice, and I didn't.
(04:43):
Growing up, I didn't reallyknow what gay was Like.
I didn't know.
I knew in fifth grade that I hada crush on a boy that named
Ricky Larson that I knew I couldnever talk about because it was
not right.
I still didn't understand whatgay was.
(05:05):
You know, it's fascinating howI hear of people talking about
gay people being pedophiles andthat it goes to the sexuality of
being gay.
I was in fifth grade.
I had no idea.
I didn't even know anythingabout myself really at that time
.
(05:25):
So the idea of being gay orbeing attracted to a man, I knew
I had a crush.
There was something about thisindividual that I was attracted
to and that I wanted to havemore in my life.
That's all I knew at the moment.
But I also know that if I wereto say that I was gay or come
out in any way, that, one, myparents would not approve of it.
(05:48):
Two, the church was not gonnaapprove of it and that I was
gonna be condemned to hellforever and live this miserable
life.
So I chose to keep things asecret.
I chose not to allow myself tofeel what was just coming up for
me.
So I lived in the space oftrying to be numb, of not going
(06:10):
there.
What's interesting is that Inever felt like it was God's
punishment, like I never feltlike I was being punished in any
way.
But what I didn't understandwas that if this was wrong, why
would God make me this way?
And I felt that there wassomething wrong with me.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Did you feel it was your responsibility or that this
was something that somehow?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
you had created.
I would say that, based on howI was raised and based on what
the church said, if God made meperfect and God and I was born
into this earth, and then ifthis is wrong and this is
something that I did and thatonly I can change, but I didn't
know how to change it, didn'tknow who to talk to because I
(07:03):
would instantly be set into thespace of being judged and it
made no sense.
Honestly, I think that wasprobably the biggest part of
growing up is like I didn't know.
We have now there's so muchinformation that people have
access to.
Back then growing up, I had theEncyclopedia Britannica.
(07:24):
I remember those, yes and allof the what 25 or 27 different
volumes, and so the amount ofinformation that we have access
to now didn't exist back then,and so I don't think that I knew
where to get answers.
I just knew I felt different.
(07:45):
I remember crying myself tosleep at night, praying that God
would fix me.
I remember feeling like therewas something different about me
, which meant that the results,the happiness, joy, the love
that other people felt wasn'tfor me Because I had this being
(08:07):
gay as my disability or myproblem, and I was made to, as I
think most of us feel that ifwe are gay then we are wrong and
we are wrong, we are shunned,and when we are shunned or
(08:28):
pushed away we are forgottenabout, which means that God does
not love me.
But that went againsteverything that I was raised of.
God is love, and God loves allExcept Except right, so none of
it truly made sense.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So how did you navigate that?
You know this not making sense,yet feeling that the church was
important in your life and Godwas important.
(09:06):
But all of this stuff was oneday God loves me.
Next day, I'm condemned to hell.
You know this total rollercoaster of, and also hearing
other people talk about peoplewho are gay as being, I don't
(09:32):
dirty bad wrong.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
all of the above All of the above and you know, there
you are hiding in the midst ofthis, but the church you love,
that's really not loving youback, in spite of what they say.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Here's the thing you hit the nail on the head when
you said the word hiding.
For me, my story is about beinggay and the lack of acceptance
within the faith-based communitythat I felt.
The truth is, we all havesecrets.
We all have things that we'reholding onto that we won't tell
(10:12):
the rest of the congregation.
We're not gonna go tell SisterMary because she's gonna be
talking to so-and-so and thentell everybody before you know
what the whole church is allabout.
Your business.
We all have secrets and we allhave these moments that we try
to hide and we try to put onthis mask and we end up
forgetting who we truly arebecause we have so many masks
(10:34):
that we're wearing.
We have a mask that we wearwhen we're with our family.
We go to church on Wednesday oron Sunday or even on Saturday,
whenever you go, and you have amask putting on a front for
those people.
Then you go to your friends andyou have another way that
you're acting with them.
Then you have your own spouseor your partner, your home
environment and your differentperson.
You get to be.
(10:54):
You're all these differentpeople because you're trying to
manage other people'sinsecurities.
You're trying to manage theirjudgments.
You're trying to manage whatthey feel and so you step away.
We live in a life especiallythose that have been, have been
in hiding Anybody that's part ofthe LGBTQ queer community have
(11:15):
lived a life of pretending to besomebody else.
So then we tell them you justbe you.
They don't know who they are.
Same thing for somebody who haslived a life of secrecy or
pretending, or many people arein relationships for a long
period of time that they know isunhealthy, that they know is
(11:36):
violent, that they know is notfeeding them and they stay in
that relationship and then forso long until somebody comes
along and says hey, you need tobe, take yourself out of that.
And then you get the courage tomove to your next and then you
feel lost because your identityand everything is back on who
you've been pretending to beRight.
(11:58):
So for me, my story is aboutbeing gay, but for other people
it's about being in arelationship for too long.
It's about saying yes too manytimes when you really should be
saying no.
It's about the generationalsecrets that we have been
keeping of that uncle ofsomebody did something, or
somebody was touchedinappropriately or something
(12:18):
happened, that parent didsomething, or that aunt got an
abortion and she's never talkedabout it, those secrets that
have been kept in the familybecause we're afraid of judgment
.
I had to get to a point where Istopped managing other people's
insecurities.
What I realized is that I knowGod has never left me, Even in
(12:43):
my darkest moments.
I went six and a half years ofusing crystal meth and during
that time it was because Ididn't want to feel the drugs,
the drinking it numbed me.
I didn't have to feel Ihonestly I felt like there were
moments that I lost my soulbecause I was in such a pit of
(13:05):
darkness Wow.
But the one thing I will alwaysremember is that I always felt
God's presence there.
That's powerful to know that youfelt that, in spite of In spite
of and that's why I don'tbelieve that God will ever
forsake me.
According to Christianity andwhat the Bible says, that's what
(13:32):
the Bible says.
That's what that says the God Iserve.
I know he loves me.
I know that I am made of Him.
I cannot do and serve the waythat I do without Him.
The space of stepping onto astage and being able to share my
story and touch the heart andthe soul, that's not me.
(13:54):
That's God working through me.
I am very well aware that I amon a mission and I have a goal
on this planet and that's tohelp people fall in love with
themselves the way that Godwanted us to be, to help people
feel the freedom I lived 44years of my life hiding.
(14:15):
That's a long time, a long time.
We don't have to say it likethat.
She's like that's a long time.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
But the reality is some people live their whole
life Not just 40, but 60, 80years hiding Exactly Families
like you talked about spend.
That that's why Felted Halo iscalled what it is, because we
feel the pressure to manage ourown insecurities and others to
(14:46):
feel perfect.
One may know perfectly well ornot Whatever that perfection is,
whether it's being straightwhen you're gay or whatever it
is.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So, yeah, it's really taking a stand for yourself and
understanding that you're notbroken, no matter how dark
things feel.
You're not broken.
There's nothing to fix.
There may be new decisions thatyou need to make.
There might be some choices inthe environment that you choose.
(15:24):
It may require you to take alook at the people that you're
spending your time with.
It may require you to take alook at what are the things that
you are feeding your soul,feeding your mind.
What books are you reading?
What music are you listening?
What shows are you watching ontelevision?
But ultimately, making thatdecision for yourself and then
(15:49):
sharing it to the world is whatgives you the freedom, the
freedom that God has designedfor us to have the freedom to
love, the freedom to be loved.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
The power to let other people know that they are
loved too.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I don't even want to say in spite of, but even
through who they are, what theyhave done, and out the other
side to something bigger, better, more beautiful.
That is what God wants for allof us.
I've shared on this show manytimes the beauty of the
(16:34):
diversity of this world.
What would it be like ifeverybody was like Matt?
It would be a fun time, but itwould also be a little bit
boring and the same thing.
If everybody was like me, therewould be some ways in which
that would be a lot morepeaceful, but it would also be
(16:55):
boring, right, because wewouldn't have that diversity
that's there and that beautifulin pouring into each other that
you have poured in to so manypeople since you shared your
(17:16):
story and that has allowed otherpeople to be free and to share
their story too.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Our stories, and our stories are the are the thing
that has the answers, it's thething that holds our freedom.
It's the thing that it's the.
It's our secret weapon.
Like I always say, it's almostlike our superpower.
It's the one.
Your story is the one thingthat is that nobody else has.
Nobody else has your experience, nobody else has your joy,
(17:50):
nobody else has your sorrow,nobody else has the.
The moments that you have felt.
Only you have that, and withinthose moments are the solutions
to.
You have moved through them andcreated your own solutions,
which therefore the solutionsfor other people, which is why
we here at DTDT are a preach.
(18:13):
You need to tell your story.
You need to first take a, takea look at the mirror and be able
to look at yourself and Own thetruth of what you've been
through, own the truth of thedecisions that you've made, own
the truth of the feelings andthe results that they created.
Look at that, own that and thenbegin to share.
(18:33):
And that's truly the biggestpart.
And that's the scariest part.
Yeah, yeah, because that's thepart.
That is, you don't have controlover.
You don't have control over howyour family is going to respond
.
You don't have control over howthe public is going to you know
, going to take what you'rereceiving.
When you came, when you startedDoing your podcast, there were
(18:53):
things that you were talkingabout that in in the industry
and in the faith-based ministryindustry were like You're gonna
talk about that?
Yeah, but you have to.
Especially when you're, whenyou're in a space of guiding
people right and and and Sharinghis message of love, you have
(19:16):
to share the good, the bad andthe ugly, yeah, and I commend
you for creating tilted halo asa, as a, as a vessel To bring
healing for other people, to dowhat other people and other
pastors and leaders have notdone.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's the hope and the prayer for.
But it, yeah, that's also thejoy that we get to share with
other people, to hear them, youknow, realize they can do that
too right For other people, forthe people in their faith
(19:52):
community, for the people intheir you know family sometimes.
And you know as, and even forthemselves, because that's where
it starts.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
We free ourselves, then we can be an agent to help
free other people than that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And that the greatest gifts that I've been able to
see since coming out is thefreedom that it's given my
family.
My mom, I'm like, maybe acouple months after, as I told
them when I was young, I Toldthem in my early 20s, and so
they knew, but I never publiclyhad spoken about it, about being
(20:29):
gay.
And I, in 2020, I told myparents.
I was like, hey, I'm coming outpublicly and they were like are
you sure you want to do that?
My dad was worried about mysafety.
My mom was like you know, Ijust want you to be happy, but
one of the greatest things whenI did that was watching them
begin to share pieces of theirstory.
(20:53):
Hey, you know what?
I've never told you this.
And dot, dot, dot.
My mom shared with me somethingreally big that she's been
holding on to for 40 plus yearsand she said me oh, I've never
told anybody and, seeing theamount of relief on her from
just she didn't have to carrythat alone anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It was huge Seeing my cousins being bolder now and
hearing their stories of howthey're standing up for
themselves much more.
That's the win.
Yeah, that's the win.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, and the other side of that that I really am so
concerned about is that asfaith leaders whether it's
professionally or within anyparticular congregation, as a
member who's a leader we reallycarry a heavy responsibility of
(21:59):
when we say God doesn't approve.
We're speaking like God in thatmoment and it is really not for
us to condemn anybody.
That's God's and God's alone.
If God is going to do that even, and it is for us to say I'm
(22:25):
not comfortable with this orthink about the ramifications,
those kinds of things, yes, wecan do that, but when we start
judging people, we're taking onGod's role in any kind of
position we're in and you feltthat judgment, and there are so
(22:51):
many others who have left thechurch, for sure, because of
that same sort of judgment andthe harm and the
misrepresentation of God andGod's love that we do in the
process.
No, I may not.
(23:12):
I do not agree with the wayeverybody lives their life, but
others don't always agree withthe way I live my life, those
both ways.
But when we give thesepronouncements and hearing the
effect that had on you remindedme of that and of the
(23:33):
responsibility within any faithcommunity Christian, jewish,
muslim, hindu, whatever it mightbe that those kinds of
pronouncements can really hurtpeople and hurt people, hurt
people.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Exactly.
One of the interesting things Ithink that has always gotten me
is when seeing people who arenot willing to go out into the
community and really touch thepeople that are hurting the most
.
They stay within their churchwalls and they wait for people
(24:13):
to come to them, and then we'regonna judge you when you come in
our doors because you live thisway, you do this, you do this,
so we're gonna judge you whileyou're here, but yet they're not
willing to go out into thecommunity and be with the people
who need them the most.
They're not willing to go outand to serve the homeless or to
go out and serve at differentthings, and yet they're the ones
(24:36):
who are teaching about love,but they won't go out.
Now, jesus spent his time notwith the people in leadership,
not with the people that are inchurch.
He was there with theprostitutes.
He was there with the peoplewho had terminal diseases and he
was spending his time and hislove to them.
(25:00):
Why don't we see more of thatin today's world?
In today's church?
I don't even feel the love,bless you.
I don't feel the love of thechurch that was there when I was
growing up, and I think it'sbecause we've gotten so stuck in
(25:20):
our judgment.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
Yes, we get all choked, yeah,but I got a little something
stuck in my throat.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
But I'll tell you the one thing that I think that has
always helped.
I'm very grateful that myparents gave me a very strong
foundation and then I developeda relationship with God very
early on and I have kept thatrelationship.
It looks different than maybewhat some people says is the
(25:56):
right way, but I know the 100%that God's got me and I will
always get him.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And that's most important.
Thank you, Matt, for sharingyour story, for being here and
for helping me with the TiltedHalo.
Anyway, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I'm proud of you, Kathleen.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And many, many respects.
So to all of you watching andlistening.
Come back again next time.
There will be another episode.
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
(26:40):
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry life, mindset and a
whole lot more, go towwwtiltedhalohelpcom, where I've
got a resource guide and otherresources waiting for you, and
be sure to say hi to me,kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
Welcome to the Tilded Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not, and how in the world
to deal with that?
And, men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:45):
Welcome to another edition ofthe Tilded Halo, and I am so
delighted to have a very specialguest with me today Matt Gill
Hi, chief of what is your exacttitle?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm the production director for Do the Damn Thing
Productions.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I knew it had to do something.
Like production director, Iwanted to get it right.
Got to know Matt, so what wasit about three years ago?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
something like that.
Yes, man.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And in working with Tiffany, who is head of Tiffany
Largy, and Do the Damn Thing andall that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
She is the CEO of Do the Damn Thing, but actually
Tiffany Largy BusinessStrategies is kind of the name
of our company here.
She's the one who created Dothe Damn Thing and the movement
of Do the Damn Thing, which hasbrought both of us together.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Right and the idea is doing the business and the
dreams that we really want to do, which is partly how I got to
doing this wonderful podcasthere in the DTDT studio.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And Matt, you've got a powerful story that's, I think
, really important for people offaith and faith communities to
hear, because number one ispersonal and it's your story
Right.
Number two it can help, I hopepeople understand the impact
(02:25):
that faith, both positively andnot so positively, can have when
we become judgmental Right Inmany respects.
So I don't know exactly whereor how young you want to start
your story, but you know, I grewup in a very close private
(02:52):
Christian family.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So growing up I went to church every Sunday.
I went to a private Christianschool.
I was one of those.
So I love microphones, whichdoesn't surprise me why I went
into production, because I hadalways.
I always felt very comfortable,either behind a microphone, in
front of a camera or on stage infront of an audience Like to me
, that feels home, that feelscomfortable.
(03:16):
I would go to Sunday school andI would come home and I would
go out and I pretend like I wasa preacher and everything that I
just learned in Bible study.
I would regurgitate in my ownway and pretend like I had an
audience.
Growing up, my parents felt.
My mom always thought I wasgoing to be a news reporter and
my dad thought I was going to bea youth minister.
(03:37):
Oh, and what I love is I get todo both almost in how I get to
sooth the world.
Now, growing up, god and therelationship with God has always
been incredibly important to me.
I always felt the presence ofGod, I felt his guidance, I felt
(03:58):
his word and I was veryinvolved in church, both during
school.
After school.
I was one of the drama kidsthat were in all of the plays
and the musicals, and so I spenta lot of time in church and
around church.
What became a struggle is theolder I got, I realized that I
(04:23):
felt different.
I felt different than otherpeople.
We were taught that being gaywas wrong.
We were taught that if you aregay, you're going to hell.
We were taught that being gayis a choice, and I didn't.
(04:43):
Growing up, I didn't reallyknow what gay was Like.
I didn't know.
I knew in fifth grade that I hada crush on a boy that named
Ricky Larson that I knew I couldnever talk about because it was
not right.
I still didn't understand whatgay was.
(05:05):
You know, it's fascinating howI hear of people talking about
gay people being pedophiles andthat it goes to the sexuality of
being gay.
I was in fifth grade.
I had no idea.
I didn't even know anythingabout myself really at that time
.
(05:25):
So the idea of being gay orbeing attracted to a man, I knew
I had a crush.
There was something about thisindividual that I was attracted
to and that I wanted to havemore in my life.
That's all I knew at the moment.
But I also know that if I wereto say that I was gay or come
out in any way, that, one, myparents would not approve of it.
(05:48):
Two, the church was not gonnaapprove of it and that I was
gonna be condemned to hellforever and live this miserable
life.
So I chose to keep things asecret.
I chose not to allow myself tofeel what was just coming up for
me.
So I lived in the space oftrying to be numb, of not going
(06:10):
there.
What's interesting is that Inever felt like it was God's
punishment, like I never feltlike I was being punished in any
way.
But what I didn't understandwas that if this was wrong, why
would God make me this way?
And I felt that there wassomething wrong with me.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Did you feel it was your responsibility or that this
was something that somehow?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
you had created.
I would say that, based on howI was raised and based on what
the church said, if God made meperfect and God and I was born
into this earth, and then ifthis is wrong and this is
something that I did and thatonly I can change, but I didn't
know how to change it, didn'tknow who to talk to because I
(07:03):
would instantly be set into thespace of being judged and it
made no sense.
Honestly, I think that wasprobably the biggest part of
growing up is like I didn't know.
We have now there's so muchinformation that people have
access to.
Back then growing up, I had theEncyclopedia Britannica.
(07:24):
I remember those, yes and allof the what 25 or 27 different
volumes, and so the amount ofinformation that we have access
to now didn't exist back then,and so I don't think that I knew
where to get answers.
I just knew I felt different.
(07:45):
I remember crying myself tosleep at night, praying that God
would fix me.
I remember feeling like therewas something different about me
, which meant that the results,the happiness, joy, the love
that other people felt wasn'tfor me Because I had this being
(08:07):
gay as my disability or myproblem, and I was made to, as I
think most of us feel that ifwe are gay then we are wrong and
we are wrong, we are shunned,and when we are shunned or
(08:28):
pushed away we are forgottenabout, which means that God does
not love me.
But that went againsteverything that I was raised of.
God is love, and God loves allExcept Except right, so none of
it truly made sense.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So how did you navigate that?
You know this not making sense,yet feeling that the church was
important in your life and Godwas important.
(09:06):
But all of this stuff was oneday God loves me.
Next day, I'm condemned to hell.
You know this total rollercoaster of, and also hearing
other people talk about peoplewho are gay as being, I don't
(09:32):
dirty bad wrong.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
all of the above All of the above and you know, there
you are hiding in the midst ofthis, but the church you love,
that's really not loving youback, in spite of what they say.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Here's the thing you hit the nail on the head when
you said the word hiding.
For me, my story is about beinggay and the lack of acceptance
within the faith-based communitythat I felt.
The truth is, we all havesecrets.
We all have things that we'reholding onto that we won't tell
(10:12):
the rest of the congregation.
We're not gonna go tell SisterMary because she's gonna be
talking to so-and-so and thentell everybody before you know
what the whole church is allabout.
Your business.
We all have secrets and we allhave these moments that we try
to hide and we try to put onthis mask and we end up
forgetting who we truly arebecause we have so many masks
(10:34):
that we're wearing.
We have a mask that we wearwhen we're with our family.
We go to church on Wednesday oron Sunday or even on Saturday,
whenever you go, and you have amask putting on a front for
those people.
Then you go to your friends andyou have another way that
you're acting with them.
Then you have your own spouseor your partner, your home
environment and your differentperson.
You get to be.
(10:54):
You're all these differentpeople because you're trying to
manage other people'sinsecurities.
You're trying to manage theirjudgments.
You're trying to manage whatthey feel and so you step away.
We live in a life especiallythose that have been, have been
in hiding Anybody that's part ofthe LGBTQ queer community have
(11:15):
lived a life of pretending to besomebody else.
So then we tell them you justbe you.
They don't know who they are.
Same thing for somebody who haslived a life of secrecy or
pretending, or many people arein relationships for a long
period of time that they know isunhealthy, that they know is
(11:36):
violent, that they know is notfeeding them and they stay in
that relationship and then forso long until somebody comes
along and says hey, you need tobe, take yourself out of that.
And then you get the courage tomove to your next and then you
feel lost because your identityand everything is back on who
you've been pretending to beRight.
(11:58):
So for me, my story is aboutbeing gay, but for other people
it's about being in arelationship for too long.
It's about saying yes too manytimes when you really should be
saying no.
It's about the generationalsecrets that we have been
keeping of that uncle ofsomebody did something, or
somebody was touchedinappropriately or something
(12:18):
happened, that parent didsomething, or that aunt got an
abortion and she's never talkedabout it, those secrets that
have been kept in the familybecause we're afraid of judgment
.
I had to get to a point where Istopped managing other people's
insecurities.
What I realized is that I knowGod has never left me, Even in
(12:43):
my darkest moments.
I went six and a half years ofusing crystal meth and during
that time it was because Ididn't want to feel the drugs,
the drinking it numbed me.
I didn't have to feel Ihonestly I felt like there were
moments that I lost my soulbecause I was in such a pit of
(13:05):
darkness Wow.
But the one thing I will alwaysremember is that I always felt
God's presence there.
That's powerful to know that youfelt that, in spite of In spite
of and that's why I don'tbelieve that God will ever
forsake me.
According to Christianity andwhat the Bible says, that's what
(13:32):
the Bible says.
That's what that says the God Iserve.
I know he loves me.
I know that I am made of Him.
I cannot do and serve the waythat I do without Him.
The space of stepping onto astage and being able to share my
story and touch the heart andthe soul, that's not me.
(13:54):
That's God working through me.
I am very well aware that I amon a mission and I have a goal
on this planet and that's tohelp people fall in love with
themselves the way that Godwanted us to be, to help people
feel the freedom I lived 44years of my life hiding.
(14:15):
That's a long time, a long time.
We don't have to say it likethat.
She's like that's a long time.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
But the reality is some people live their whole
life Not just 40, but 60, 80years hiding Exactly Families
like you talked about spend.
That that's why Felted Halo iscalled what it is, because we
feel the pressure to manage ourown insecurities and others to
(14:46):
feel perfect.
One may know perfectly well ornot Whatever that perfection is,
whether it's being straightwhen you're gay or whatever it
is.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So, yeah, it's really taking a stand for yourself and
understanding that you're notbroken, no matter how dark
things feel.
You're not broken.
There's nothing to fix.
There may be new decisions thatyou need to make.
There might be some choices inthe environment that you choose.
(15:24):
It may require you to take alook at the people that you're
spending your time with.
It may require you to take alook at what are the things that
you are feeding your soul,feeding your mind.
What books are you reading?
What music are you listening?
What shows are you watching ontelevision?
But ultimately, making thatdecision for yourself and then
(15:49):
sharing it to the world is whatgives you the freedom, the
freedom that God has designedfor us to have the freedom to
love, the freedom to be loved.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
The power to let other people know that they are
loved too.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I don't even want to say in spite of, but even
through who they are, what theyhave done, and out the other
side to something bigger, better, more beautiful.
That is what God wants for allof us.
I've shared on this show manytimes the beauty of the
(16:34):
diversity of this world.
What would it be like ifeverybody was like Matt?
It would be a fun time, but itwould also be a little bit
boring and the same thing.
If everybody was like me, therewould be some ways in which
that would be a lot morepeaceful, but it would also be
(16:55):
boring, right, because wewouldn't have that diversity
that's there and that beautifulin pouring into each other that
you have poured in to so manypeople since you shared your
(17:16):
story and that has allowed otherpeople to be free and to share
their story too.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Our stories, and our stories are the are the thing
that has the answers, it's thething that holds our freedom.
It's the thing that it's the.
It's our secret weapon.
Like I always say, it's almostlike our superpower.
It's the one.
Your story is the one thingthat is that nobody else has.
Nobody else has your experience, nobody else has your joy,
(17:50):
nobody else has your sorrow,nobody else has the.
The moments that you have felt.
Only you have that, and withinthose moments are the solutions
to.
You have moved through them andcreated your own solutions,
which therefore the solutionsfor other people, which is why
we here at DTDT are a preach.
(18:13):
You need to tell your story.
You need to first take a, takea look at the mirror and be able
to look at yourself and Own thetruth of what you've been
through, own the truth of thedecisions that you've made, own
the truth of the feelings andthe results that they created.
Look at that, own that and thenbegin to share.
(18:33):
And that's truly the biggestpart.
And that's the scariest part.
Yeah, yeah, because that's thepart.
That is, you don't have controlover.
You don't have control over howyour family is going to respond
.
You don't have control over howthe public is going to you know
, going to take what you'rereceiving.
When you came, when you startedDoing your podcast, there were
(18:53):
things that you were talkingabout that in in the industry
and in the faith-based ministryindustry were like You're gonna
talk about that?
Yeah, but you have to.
Especially when you're, whenyou're in a space of guiding
people right and and and Sharinghis message of love, you have
(19:16):
to share the good, the bad andthe ugly, yeah, and I commend
you for creating tilted halo asa, as a, as a vessel To bring
healing for other people, to dowhat other people and other
pastors and leaders have notdone.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's the hope and the prayer for.
But it, yeah, that's also thejoy that we get to share with
other people, to hear them, youknow, realize they can do that
too right For other people, forthe people in their faith
(19:52):
community, for the people intheir you know family sometimes.
And you know as, and even forthemselves, because that's where
it starts.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
We free ourselves, then we can be an agent to help
free other people than that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And that the greatest gifts that I've been able to
see since coming out is thefreedom that it's given my
family.
My mom, I'm like, maybe acouple months after, as I told
them when I was young, I Toldthem in my early 20s, and so
they knew, but I never publiclyhad spoken about it, about being
(20:29):
gay.
And I, in 2020, I told myparents.
I was like, hey, I'm coming outpublicly and they were like are
you sure you want to do that?
My dad was worried about mysafety.
My mom was like you know, Ijust want you to be happy, but
one of the greatest things whenI did that was watching them
begin to share pieces of theirstory.
(20:53):
Hey, you know what?
I've never told you this.
And dot, dot, dot.
My mom shared with me somethingreally big that she's been
holding on to for 40 plus yearsand she said me oh, I've never
told anybody and, seeing theamount of relief on her from
just she didn't have to carrythat alone anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It was huge Seeing my cousins being bolder now and
hearing their stories of howthey're standing up for
themselves much more.
That's the win.
Yeah, that's the win.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, and the other side of that that I really am so
concerned about is that asfaith leaders whether it's
professionally or within anyparticular congregation, as a
member who's a leader we reallycarry a heavy responsibility of
(21:59):
when we say God doesn't approve.
We're speaking like God in thatmoment and it is really not for
us to condemn anybody.
That's God's and God's alone.
If God is going to do that even, and it is for us to say I'm
(22:25):
not comfortable with this orthink about the ramifications,
those kinds of things, yes, wecan do that, but when we start
judging people, we're taking onGod's role in any kind of
position we're in and you feltthat judgment, and there are so
(22:51):
many others who have left thechurch, for sure, because of
that same sort of judgment andthe harm and the
misrepresentation of God andGod's love that we do in the
process.
No, I may not.
(23:12):
I do not agree with the wayeverybody lives their life, but
others don't always agree withthe way I live my life, those
both ways.
But when we give thesepronouncements and hearing the
effect that had on you remindedme of that and of the
(23:33):
responsibility within any faithcommunity Christian, jewish,
muslim, hindu, whatever it mightbe that those kinds of
pronouncements can really hurtpeople and hurt people, hurt
people.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Exactly.
One of the interesting things Ithink that has always gotten me
is when seeing people who arenot willing to go out into the
community and really touch thepeople that are hurting the most
.
They stay within their churchwalls and they wait for people
(24:13):
to come to them, and then we'regonna judge you when you come in
our doors because you live thisway, you do this, you do this,
so we're gonna judge you whileyou're here, but yet they're not
willing to go out into thecommunity and be with the people
who need them the most.
They're not willing to go outand to serve the homeless or to
go out and serve at differentthings, and yet they're the ones
(24:36):
who are teaching about love,but they won't go out.
Now, jesus spent his time notwith the people in leadership,
not with the people that are inchurch.
He was there with theprostitutes.
He was there with the peoplewho had terminal diseases and he
was spending his time and hislove to them.
(25:00):
Why don't we see more of thatin today's world?
In today's church?
I don't even feel the love,bless you.
I don't feel the love of thechurch that was there when I was
growing up, and I think it'sbecause we've gotten so stuck in
(25:20):
our judgment.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
Yes, we get all choked, yeah,but I got a little something
stuck in my throat.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
But I'll tell you the one thing that I think that has
always helped.
I'm very grateful that myparents gave me a very strong
foundation and then I developeda relationship with God very
early on and I have kept thatrelationship.
It looks different than maybewhat some people says is the
(25:56):
right way, but I know the 100%that God's got me and I will
always get him.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And that's most important.
Thank you, Matt, for sharingyour story, for being here and
for helping me with the TiltedHalo.
Anyway, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I'm proud of you, Kathleen.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And many, many respects.
So to all of you watching andlistening.
Come back again next time.
There will be another episode.
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
(26:40):
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry life, mindset and a
whole lot more, go towwwtiltedhalohelpcom, where I've
got a resource guide and otherresources waiting for you, and
be sure to say hi to me,kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
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