February 10, 2025 • 33 mins
What does it take to rise above life's toughest challenges?
Join Kathleen Panning as she shares an enlightening conversation with Aretha Taylor, a trailblazer who overcame a tumultuous childhood in Brooklyn to emerge as a successful pastor and CEO. Aretha candidly recounts her journey through the shadows of molestation, abuse, and homelessness, where the power of community and self-belief served as her guiding light. Her story is a beacon of hope and resilience, shedding light on the strength found in positive influence and the transformative potential of surrounding oneself with empowered individuals.
As we unravel Aretha's insights, we encounter stories of healing and redemption, including a daughter's journey to understanding her mother's struggles beneath a facade of toughness. We delve into the deep wells of forgiveness and empathy, breaking generational cycles of pain in the process. Aretha shares her dedication to building trust and offering consistent support to marginalized groups, emphasizing the value of every individual.
This episode promises a heartfelt exploration of compassion, resilience, and the incredible impact of recognizing every person as a gift in our collective journey towards healing and empowerment.
DISCLAIMER: This content includes discussions of sexual, and emotional abuse and domestic violence. Please proceed with caution if these topics are triggering or distressing for you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is.
You're absolutely in the rightplace, especially if you're
(00:21):
someone who loves your ministryand you're doing it well and
you're feeling pressure tosometimes be perfect and deep
down inside, you know you're not, and how in the world to deal
with that?
And men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
(00:41):
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Tilted Halo, and that is me,
pastor Kathleen Panning.
And I am here with a veryspecial guest today, someone I
met a couple months back at aconference, and she is Aretha
(01:04):
Taylor, founder, chair,president and CEO of New
Beginnings Outreach Program forWomen.
It's a non-profit organizationfor women and young girls of
abuse, substance use,incarceration, mental and
emotional illness andhomelessness.
(01:25):
She's also the founder andowner of New Beginnings Life
Empowerment LLC, which is atransitional life skills company
aiming to develop healthypersonal, mental and emotional
transitions.
Aretha Taylor also serves asthe founder and pastor of
(01:46):
Kingdom Faith InternationalOutreach Ministries and Missions
, registered in the UnitedStates and Jamaica.
As a visionary word recognitionrecipient, author, entrepreneur
and transitional lifestrategist, aretha excels as an
(02:07):
orator, an international publicspeaker, a podcaster, a
facilitator, a radio host, apastor, a philanthropist and a
mentor.
Her multifaceted career isdedicated to empowering women.
Multifaceted career isdedicated to empowering women,
(02:29):
men and young people, fosteringpersonal growth and
transformation within hercommunity and globally.
Aretha, welcome to the TiltedHalo.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Thank you so much, Pastor.
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, it's awesome and wonderful to have you here,
pastor Aretha, and I'd like tostart out by asking my guests
please tell me, and tell ouraudience, some of your story,
how you got to be who you areand where you are.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
these days and where you are these days.
Well, my story is filled of alot of trauma from when I was a
child growing up in Brooklyn,new York.
Types of trauma that I enduredwere sexual molestation, abuse,
physical abuse, mental abuse,emotional abuse.
(03:21):
I was also homeless for fouryears with my daughter.
At the time I got pregnant at15 years old and I dropped out
of high school at the age of 16,when I was in the 10th grade,
and that was mainly to supportmy daughter and to support
myself my daughter and tosupport myself because we I
(03:48):
didn't have that community rightto help me and at the time of
birth no one reached out to mereally to see how I was doing,
to be that community for me, tosupport me and to encourage me.
So I felt very much alone andabandoned and rejected,
especially by the church right.
And I remember after having mydaughter, my mom was extremely
abusive.
She was still very much abusiveand I didn't want to put that
(04:10):
strain on her.
So I decided I was going toleave and I left without knowing
really or having a plan andthat's how I became homeless for
four years and through that,after being homeless for four
years, um found my own apartmentafter going back to my mom's
(04:32):
house for two years, right, um,I didn't want to, but the lord
told me to go back because ofall that I was going through.
Gone back at the age of 20 and22 was the first time I had my
own apartment.
I became small, I was workingat a hotel, and that's where my
(04:53):
new beginning, part of my newbeginning- that's quite a
journey.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You've experienced and seen some of the more
unfortunate and darker sides ofthe life of many people.
What kinds of insights has thatgiven you, for yourself and for
(05:21):
other people?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
and for other people, Strength.
That was a time of my lifewhere I actually thought it was
my life was over, but thenegative words that were spoken
to me.
They empowered me instead.
The words that were told to methat I am nothing, I would be
nothing.
Words that were told to me thatI am nothing, I would be
nothing, I will always benothing.
Those words empowered me.
(05:50):
Even after I dropped out ofhigh school, I told myself that
I did not want to hang out withhigh school dropouts.
I want to be around high schooldropouts because I felt what
they do for me to be around highschool drop-offs because I felt
what they do for me.
I could be with people who werestrengthened, who were
empowered, who were educated andolder than I was.
(06:12):
So that's what I did.
I started hanging out,befriending people that were
older than.
I was smarter than I was, thatwere in college, that were
educated and that had resources,so I taught myself how to read,
how to spell, how to speak.
(06:34):
This was I trained.
I was literally smart.
It's always true no matter what, you must first first believe.
And it sounds like a littlecliche, but you have to first
believe you can do it.
And even though everyone elsearound you is telling you it's
impossible, it can't happen,it's not going to happen, and
(06:56):
all the negative words that werespoken in your life because
power is in our mouth.
Speak can either bring death orlife, and so I felt at the time
that my life was over, butbecause of the people that God
(07:17):
had placed me around at thattime.
They were so self-sufficientand they were so empowered and
they believed in themselves andthey loved themselves.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That was imparted into me at a young age, as a
teenager wow environment has alot to do with how you feel
about yourself yeah, the theimportance that shares and shows
us of having people around uswho have a different perspective
(07:53):
.
Number one, and it's a positiveone.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
That something different is possible,
absolutely that it's there forthem.
So that means, maybe, justmaybe it's there for them.
So that means maybe, just maybeit's there for you too.
And um, and I'm not quite clearon this, but did they help you
(08:17):
to feel more empowered and helpyou develop that sense within
yourself?
The more positive view.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Absolutely, because I had a low self-esteem.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
How did they do that?
What were some of the thingsthey did?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They stood in the mirror and they would dance to
music and they were all kissesat themselves, would dance to
music and they were all kissesat themselves, dancing in the
mirror and telling themselveshow beautiful they are.
And I remember one of the youngladies was doing that with my
daughter.
She had my daughter at the ageof three standing with her and
(08:59):
dancing and she was saying,carissa, tell yourself you're
beautiful, tell yourself you'rebeautiful, tell yourself you're
sexy.
And me not knowing better, Isaid don't tell her that.
And she looked at me and shesays but she is, and she needs
to know that and she needs tobelieve that and so do you about
yourself.
(09:19):
That got me, because I neverhad that, I was never told that.
And I never told, nor thoughtthat I could do that, that I
could tell myself these things.
But when she said this,something in me just registered,
just changed Wow, because I'mgoing to in me to call that to
(09:43):
my daughter, to raise mydaughter in that way in that
environment.
It did that for the both of us.
It was teaching me to loveAretha.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Today there are many people who talk about
affirmations and positiveaffirmations, and obviously that
was a very positive affirmationfor you, but it was also, as I
understand it, a gift of love toyou, to somebody told you you
(10:16):
were level bull and that youcould experience that love, and
to share that with your daughteras well and for her to know
that she was loved.
How powerful that is for us toknow when we are loved and to
(10:37):
receive that.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yes, extremely beautiful.
She was surrounded by love.
She was surrounded by thefriends, the acquaintances that
I had in my life at that time.
They loved on her and theyloved, you know, regardless of
what we were going through atthe time.
So she understood love from avery small age.
(11:00):
Because I wanted that for her, Iwanted to impart that in her.
I felt that that was extremelyimportant and it was needed for
her and for myself, you know,because I didn't grow up in that
environment to love me and Ididn't know what it was like to
have friends to love friends orfriends to love me and to say I
love you.
You know, I thought it strangewhen my friend at that time in
(11:26):
our late teens, when she said tome I love you, aretha, I was
like what in the world?
I didn't know what to say, Ididn't know how to.
You know, not accustomed to her, I started getting accustomed
to say I love you, you know, andknew that there wasn't anything
wrong with that, that that wasa great and wonderful gift to
have that female anddemonstration of love yeah, the
(11:47):
words are so important and somany of us and grow up and where
those words are not spoken,actions are very powerful too.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
But sometimes we just really need to hear those words
.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And I love saying it and I love hearing it from you,
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's.
You described that moment, whenit seems like that moment was
when things started to shift foryou in many ways, to hear
somebody say you know you areloved and you are lovable and
(12:39):
worth being loved in a veryhealthy, positive way.
Sometimes we use those words insome very unhealthy ways and,
uh, it becomes oppressive.
It's not really, uh, the kindof love that's described in
scripture.
(12:59):
It's not really, um, a graciouslove, it's a.
It's also manipulation.
Yeah, yeah, um.
So to have that freedom of reallove, yeah, that's it.
It is.
(13:20):
I hear in you the freedom thatthat brought to you.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh, absolutely.
And you know what, when Ithought about it now, I can
think about it In regards to mymom.
My mom died when she was 92years old and you know, during
those eras, those days, duringthat time being raised in
Jamaica because she was aCaribbean right, they still
(13:52):
don't.
We're not affectionate people,the culture not affectionate,
don't hug, don't?
You know?
And I had to give her grace, Ihad to forgive her for that,
because she too was hurting.
So he hurting woman waitingwith children and so raised in a
hurt environment.
We're being raised coming froma hurt place because she wasn't
healed herself right.
So with a lot of hurt, a lot ofanger, a lot of resentment and
(14:17):
bitterness, also toward herselfor the decisions that she made
in her life or the things thathappened to her or the trauma
that happened to her.
So in her she turned around andshe raised eight children on
her own.
Wow, coming from a hurtfulplace.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Place of just fearful and trauma, traumatic, right,
mm-hmm, that was imparted in us.
So after me getting to know mymom, right, I went to live with
her when I was about 45 yearsold, not because I wanted to,
not because I had the rightchoice, but Hurricane Sandy, I
(14:59):
was forced to leave New York tolive with her in Florida and
that's when I got to know her.
It was not easy because my momwas bipolar and she was also a
narcissist that whole dynamic.
It was very unhealthy.
I felt led, while staying withher, to sit with her from time
(15:23):
to time and just talk with mymom, have conversations with her
.
Like, take it back to when shewas a child and she was in her
teen, learned so much about mymom and sometimes she'd be
crying and telling her stories,but I realized this was her
therapy.
She never had the opportunityto really sit with anyone and
(15:45):
see about her trauma and my momtalked about a time when she was
being, when she was raped bythree men wow age, she never
talked about it.
So she's bearing that guilt andshame for years because you're
not supposed to talk about thesethings, right, it happens to so
(16:10):
many of us.
So in learning her in talkingto the woman, the child, the
young, not the mother, becausesometimes we forget our parents.
They were boys and girls beforethey became parents, right?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I was speaking to the woman and she lied that she was
carrying, so I got to know herin a different way.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, it reminds me of how in scripture we talk
about.
You know, the sins of onegeneration are passed on and
from generation to generation.
Because it's not resolved andit's not, we don't forgive
ourselves and bury that then onto another generation and that
(17:07):
chain that's broken of passingit on.
When we hear the message oflove and grace and are able to
forgive ourselves and, like you,then forgive your mother too.
If you can say something aboutthe amount of healing that
(17:33):
brought to you and to also toyour mother, as she was able to
share some of that she didn'tsay it but I know she had a lot
of healing going on with her.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
She did a lot of crying, she was a very emotional
person anyways, but in talkingwith her and the tears would
flow.
Tears would speak volumes.
And even though she didn't saymuch like forgive me, I'm sorry,
her tears did Because I knewthat she felt she also
(18:11):
disappointed us in ways, Raisingher because she didn't know any
better, she did what she couldthat time.
She wasn't given any tools Liketoday, what we have, what we are
privy to, right, what we'reexposed to.
They weren't exposed to thesethings like she didn't have a
(18:32):
mom to teach her and to raiseher and to tell her, for that
grew up on her own.
Her mom died when she was likemaybe about four years old oh,
that's her dad when she was ateen and late in her late teens.
So she didn't have anyone toteach her.
She was learning as she wasgoing Right and our culture.
(18:53):
We're very aggressive people.
We say the worst things thatcomes out of our mouths because
we think that's a form oftherapy.
Instead of saying, well,daughter or son, um, let's see
how we can do this better.
You know, uh, instead ofencouraging us, they'll call us
(19:15):
names like you know, that wasstupid of you.
You're stupid or you're dumb oryou're an idiot and thinking
that's.
I am still learning and healingbecause a few months ago, in
(19:37):
sitting down and praying andmeditating and talking with God,
I remembered that I said somepretty awful things, not to her
face, but behind her, back inanger.
Anger Called her names out ofanger, because I was hurt by the
things that she was sayingabout me and to me.
(20:00):
And now I also took on thetrauma of my siblings.
Right, this is wrong whathappens?
Because I'm the youngest ofeight, so I also, oh, wow, fear,
trauma, bling.
Right, this is what happens,because I'm the youngest of
eight, so I also wow theirtrauma.
So I had to now ask god toforgive me for all the things I
said about my mom that wasnegative and hurtful, even
(20:23):
though I did not say them to her, but I said them out loud to
him.
And in asking for forgiveness,something happened within me.
There was a love that formed inmy heart toward my mom that
never felt before for her hereon earth, never felt.
And, um, I, I, in speakingabout her now, today, I'm
(20:49):
speaking about my mom from adifferent place.
A place of healing, a place ofcompassion, a place of empathy
and love and honor, because,even though she was abusive, I
still learned a lot from her,her strength.
(21:10):
That woman had so much strengthin her faith as well right, wow
, her strength as far as how sheraised us was just very strong
in what she believed in and inwhat she also imparted in us.
So in that regard, I honor herfor that.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I think it's such a blessing when we can see not
only the flaws, if you wish, thethings that weren't so good in
other people, but also see thepositives, the strengths, the
(22:02):
gifts that we receive from them,in spite of, in spite of, from
them, in spite of, in spite ofand in the midst of all of the
rest of it.
And too often it seems like whenwe especially in our culture
(22:24):
these days we see something thatwe might see as negative about
somebody, we just kind of writethat person off and you know,
then everything about the personbecomes negative and you know
that's not really helpful.
(22:44):
Yes, there are some people weneed to be very careful of who
might be dangerous, but themajority of people know, you
know, the the majority of peopleare, you know, kind of like the
rest of us.
We got some faults and we gotsome strengths and good parts.
(23:05):
And to just write somebody offbecause we disagree with them on
something or they've saidsomething or done something that
we may indeed find very hurtful, but there may still be some
gifts there that they give usanyway, yes, I agree with you
(23:30):
100%.
Is that kind of what you helpthe people who you work with to
work through and to come to adifferent place in their life?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, yes.
If I hadn't gone through what Iwent through in my life, there
was no way that I can be to thewomen and the men and the youth,
um to them the way they need meto be to them, cause I
understand pain, I see pain, Ihear pain, I feel pain and I
(24:09):
feel these people's pain and Iwant to be to them.
That church wasn't to me, right.
I want to be to them that thesystem was not to me, because
the system also failed me when Iwent to seek help.
I want to be that mentor that Inever had.
(24:41):
I want to be the pastor that Inever had either at that time in
my life.
I want to be to them thatfriend who told me Aretha, you
are someone, you are beautiful.
I want to be that.
So when I'm with my clients, orspeaking of my clients, or
trying to do what I do for themon a daily basis, or meet with
(25:04):
other organizations and agents,when I'm speaking with
individuals, especially fromother organizations and agencies
, and how we can partnertogether to help the community,
if I am not hearing what I amlistening for, I don't want to
partner with them Because manyof these organizations and
(25:29):
churches or individuals.
They're in it for the money.
They're in it for theirpersonal gain.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
That isn't why I'm doing it and unfortunately, as
you said, some of the churchesare in it for their personal
gain.
That isn't why I'm doing it andunfortunately, as you said,
some of the churches are in itfor wanting to.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It's very unfortunate .
So if I am not, I'm listeningkeenly on what they're saying,
and if I'm not hearing love,then no, I'm not, because I care
about these people.
I care about the women who areincarcerated.
I care about them when theycome home and what we can do for
(26:06):
them, how we can help them tonot go back in prison.
What can we do for them?
I care about the women who aregoing through transitions.
I care about the women ofdomestic violence, because I
come from a home of domesticviolence.
I care about the young people.
I want to hear from them how wecan help them.
(26:28):
How can we as leaders, asadults, as elders, as the church
, as the community partner andhelp them?
What can we do to make it justa little easier on you and what
you're going through?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Excuse me, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
No, no, no, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I was going to ask is there any one major theme that
you keep hearing over and overfrom these people of what they
need and what they are reallyhungry for trust?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
trust, trust, because if they can't trust you, then
they're not coming to you,they're not going to open up to
you.
They need trust and stability.
Not only the youth, but eventhe older people, the young men,
the women.
They need trust.
How do I know you're going tobe there for me?
(27:30):
So they need to see consistencyfrom us.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right and that, yeah, trust is built over time.
It's not something that happensonce or twice and yeah, that's,
it's um, it's the long game,it's not a short-term thing.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah absolutely trust is extremely important.
They know that you're showingup for them, even if one person
show up for that one person.
I just wrote a blog a couple ofdays ago.
I don't know if you saw it, butI remember when I was teaching
Sunday school for 10 months, Iwas speaking to an entire room
(28:12):
that was empty, empty chairs for10 months straight.
But I kept going and I keptgoing and I kept going.
And I do believe, looking backon it now, that was a test that
God used me to see how faithfulare you in this.
And one point I got frustratedwith the people because I'm
(28:33):
thinking they know Sunday schoolstarts at 10 o'clock and ends
at 11.
But they will just stroll inthere five minutes to 11 and
they want to drag it out and I'mlike, no, we can't do this.
It's from 10 to 11.
I'm wrapping up and I would betalking to empty chairs until
one day.
I sat down.
I said God, do you mean to tellme that I'm going to be here
(28:56):
talking to these empty chairsweek after week after week?
And one lady she was.
She knocked on the door andshe's peeking through the
windows.
And she knocked on the door.
I told her to come in.
But she came in to see one ofthe other elders and I told her
I wasn't there yet.
So, as she was walking away,she turned around and she looked
at me and she said minister,minister, the lord said to tell
(29:18):
you you're not here alone.
All of these chairs are filledwith angels.
You're teaching the angel.
And I sat there in awe.
In awe, right.
So yeah, no matter what willshow up, even if it's for one
person, because we can be theanswer to someone's prayer wow,
(29:41):
yeah, and one person is just asvaluable as 50 or 100.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You know, absolutely.
Each one scripture talks abouthow god loves even one sparrow
or crow or whatever the creatureis, one ant.
You know the little whatever Imean.
We're far more precious to Godthan that, and each person is,
(30:15):
and we so easily forget that.
We so easily forget that.
So how can people get in touchwith you, aretha?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
on my website www n, as in nancy, b as in boy,
lifeorg.
That's www nnblifeorg.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Fantastic.
So I know that I mean I feellike this conversation could go
on a lot, lot longer andhopefully we'll do a part two at
some point and where else thiswill go.
But just so much, thank you forbeing here and sharing your
(31:04):
story and you know it's areminder to all of us about the
value of every single person.
We cannot write anybody off.
You know, no matter what theymay have done in the past, the
past is not the present and it'snot the future, and each and
(31:29):
every one of us is a gift fromGod, and there's love and grace
there from God for everyone, andwe are called to be the agents
of that.
Many times, sometimes in placesand ways that we don't really
realize, and you know yourexperiences of painful past.
(31:53):
You have turned that into agift that you use to bring love
and grace to others, and that istruly a blessing.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So thank you thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Thank you so much, pastor, I appreciate you're very
, very welcome and, um, I inviteeverybody to come back for
another episode of the TiltedHalo.
But most of all, follow and seewhat Aretha is doing and see
how you can be maybe even alittle part of what she's doing,
or at least take some of thelessons from what she does into
(32:32):
your life.
So until next time, as my voicegets all froggy right here,
I'll go speak.
Some blessings to each andevery one of you.
Bye, bye-bye.
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
(32:53):
Leave me some comments, be sureto like, subscribe and share
this episode and catch anotherupcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry, life, mindset and a
whole lot more.
Go to wwwtiltedhalohelpcom,where I've got a resource guide
and other resources waiting foryou, and be sure to say hi to me
(33:16):
, kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is.
You're absolutely in the rightplace, especially if you're
(00:21):
someone who loves your ministryand you're doing it well and
you're feeling pressure tosometimes be perfect and deep
down inside, you know you're not, and how in the world to deal
with that?
And men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
(00:41):
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Tilted Halo, and that is me,
pastor Kathleen Panning.
And I am here with a veryspecial guest today, someone I
met a couple months back at aconference, and she is Aretha
(01:04):
Taylor, founder, chair,president and CEO of New
Beginnings Outreach Program forWomen.
It's a non-profit organizationfor women and young girls of
abuse, substance use,incarceration, mental and
emotional illness andhomelessness.
(01:25):
She's also the founder andowner of New Beginnings Life
Empowerment LLC, which is atransitional life skills company
aiming to develop healthypersonal, mental and emotional
transitions.
Aretha Taylor also serves asthe founder and pastor of
(01:46):
Kingdom Faith InternationalOutreach Ministries and Missions
, registered in the UnitedStates and Jamaica.
As a visionary word recognitionrecipient, author, entrepreneur
and transitional lifestrategist, aretha excels as an
(02:07):
orator, an international publicspeaker, a podcaster, a
facilitator, a radio host, apastor, a philanthropist and a
mentor.
Her multifaceted career isdedicated to empowering women.
Multifaceted career isdedicated to empowering women,
(02:29):
men and young people, fosteringpersonal growth and
transformation within hercommunity and globally.
Aretha, welcome to the TiltedHalo.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Thank you so much, Pastor.
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, it's awesome and wonderful to have you here,
pastor Aretha, and I'd like tostart out by asking my guests
please tell me, and tell ouraudience, some of your story,
how you got to be who you areand where you are.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
these days and where you are these days.
Well, my story is filled of alot of trauma from when I was a
child growing up in Brooklyn,new York.
Types of trauma that I enduredwere sexual molestation, abuse,
physical abuse, mental abuse,emotional abuse.
(03:21):
I was also homeless for fouryears with my daughter.
At the time I got pregnant at15 years old and I dropped out
of high school at the age of 16,when I was in the 10th grade,
and that was mainly to supportmy daughter and to support
myself my daughter and tosupport myself because we I
(03:48):
didn't have that community rightto help me and at the time of
birth no one reached out to mereally to see how I was doing,
to be that community for me, tosupport me and to encourage me.
So I felt very much alone andabandoned and rejected,
especially by the church right.
And I remember after having mydaughter, my mom was extremely
abusive.
She was still very much abusiveand I didn't want to put that
(04:10):
strain on her.
So I decided I was going toleave and I left without knowing
really or having a plan andthat's how I became homeless for
four years and through that,after being homeless for four
years, um found my own apartmentafter going back to my mom's
(04:32):
house for two years, right, um,I didn't want to, but the lord
told me to go back because ofall that I was going through.
Gone back at the age of 20 and22 was the first time I had my
own apartment.
I became small, I was workingat a hotel, and that's where my
(04:53):
new beginning, part of my newbeginning- that's quite a
journey.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You've experienced and seen some of the more
unfortunate and darker sides ofthe life of many people.
What kinds of insights has thatgiven you, for yourself and for
(05:21):
other people?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
and for other people, Strength.
That was a time of my lifewhere I actually thought it was
my life was over, but thenegative words that were spoken
to me.
They empowered me instead.
The words that were told to methat I am nothing, I would be
nothing.
Words that were told to me thatI am nothing, I would be
nothing, I will always benothing.
Those words empowered me.
(05:50):
Even after I dropped out ofhigh school, I told myself that
I did not want to hang out withhigh school dropouts.
I want to be around high schooldropouts because I felt what
they do for me to be around highschool drop-offs because I felt
what they do for me.
I could be with people who werestrengthened, who were
empowered, who were educated andolder than I was.
(06:12):
So that's what I did.
I started hanging out,befriending people that were
older than.
I was smarter than I was, thatwere in college, that were
educated and that had resources,so I taught myself how to read,
how to spell, how to speak.
(06:34):
This was I trained.
I was literally smart.
It's always true no matter what, you must first first believe.
And it sounds like a littlecliche, but you have to first
believe you can do it.
And even though everyone elsearound you is telling you it's
impossible, it can't happen,it's not going to happen, and
(06:56):
all the negative words that werespoken in your life because
power is in our mouth.
Speak can either bring death orlife, and so I felt at the time
that my life was over, butbecause of the people that God
(07:17):
had placed me around at thattime.
They were so self-sufficientand they were so empowered and
they believed in themselves andthey loved themselves.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That was imparted into me at a young age, as a
teenager wow environment has alot to do with how you feel
about yourself yeah, the theimportance that shares and shows
us of having people around uswho have a different perspective
(07:53):
.
Number one, and it's a positiveone.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
That something different is possible,
absolutely that it's there forthem.
So that means, maybe, justmaybe it's there for them.
So that means maybe, just maybeit's there for you too.
And um, and I'm not quite clearon this, but did they help you
(08:17):
to feel more empowered and helpyou develop that sense within
yourself?
The more positive view.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Absolutely, because I had a low self-esteem.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
How did they do that?
What were some of the thingsthey did?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They stood in the mirror and they would dance to
music and they were all kissesat themselves, would dance to
music and they were all kissesat themselves, dancing in the
mirror and telling themselveshow beautiful they are.
And I remember one of the youngladies was doing that with my
daughter.
She had my daughter at the ageof three standing with her and
(08:59):
dancing and she was saying,carissa, tell yourself you're
beautiful, tell yourself you'rebeautiful, tell yourself you're
sexy.
And me not knowing better, Isaid don't tell her that.
And she looked at me and shesays but she is, and she needs
to know that and she needs tobelieve that and so do you about
yourself.
(09:19):
That got me, because I neverhad that, I was never told that.
And I never told, nor thoughtthat I could do that, that I
could tell myself these things.
But when she said this,something in me just registered,
just changed Wow, because I'mgoing to in me to call that to
(09:43):
my daughter, to raise mydaughter in that way in that
environment.
It did that for the both of us.
It was teaching me to loveAretha.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Today there are many people who talk about
affirmations and positiveaffirmations, and obviously that
was a very positive affirmationfor you, but it was also, as I
understand it, a gift of love toyou, to somebody told you you
(10:16):
were level bull and that youcould experience that love, and
to share that with your daughteras well and for her to know
that she was loved.
How powerful that is for us toknow when we are loved and to
(10:37):
receive that.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yes, extremely beautiful.
She was surrounded by love.
She was surrounded by thefriends, the acquaintances that
I had in my life at that time.
They loved on her and theyloved, you know, regardless of
what we were going through atthe time.
So she understood love from avery small age.
(11:00):
Because I wanted that for her, Iwanted to impart that in her.
I felt that that was extremelyimportant and it was needed for
her and for myself, you know,because I didn't grow up in that
environment to love me and Ididn't know what it was like to
have friends to love friends orfriends to love me and to say I
love you.
You know, I thought it strangewhen my friend at that time in
(11:26):
our late teens, when she said tome I love you, aretha, I was
like what in the world?
I didn't know what to say, Ididn't know how to.
You know, not accustomed to her, I started getting accustomed
to say I love you, you know, andknew that there wasn't anything
wrong with that, that that wasa great and wonderful gift to
have that female anddemonstration of love yeah, the
(11:47):
words are so important and somany of us and grow up and where
those words are not spoken,actions are very powerful too.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
But sometimes we just really need to hear those words
.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And I love saying it and I love hearing it from you,
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's.
You described that moment, whenit seems like that moment was
when things started to shift foryou in many ways, to hear
somebody say you know you areloved and you are lovable and
(12:39):
worth being loved in a veryhealthy, positive way.
Sometimes we use those words insome very unhealthy ways and,
uh, it becomes oppressive.
It's not really, uh, the kindof love that's described in
scripture.
(12:59):
It's not really, um, a graciouslove, it's a.
It's also manipulation.
Yeah, yeah, um.
So to have that freedom of reallove, yeah, that's it.
It is.
(13:20):
I hear in you the freedom thatthat brought to you.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh, absolutely.
And you know what, when Ithought about it now, I can
think about it In regards to mymom.
My mom died when she was 92years old and you know, during
those eras, those days, duringthat time being raised in
Jamaica because she was aCaribbean right, they still
(13:52):
don't.
We're not affectionate people,the culture not affectionate,
don't hug, don't?
You know?
And I had to give her grace, Ihad to forgive her for that,
because she too was hurting.
So he hurting woman waitingwith children and so raised in a
hurt environment.
We're being raised coming froma hurt place because she wasn't
healed herself right.
So with a lot of hurt, a lot ofanger, a lot of resentment and
(14:17):
bitterness, also toward herselfor the decisions that she made
in her life or the things thathappened to her or the trauma
that happened to her.
So in her she turned around andshe raised eight children on
her own.
Wow, coming from a hurtfulplace.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Place of just fearful and trauma, traumatic, right,
mm-hmm, that was imparted in us.
So after me getting to know mymom, right, I went to live with
her when I was about 45 yearsold, not because I wanted to,
not because I had the rightchoice, but Hurricane Sandy, I
(14:59):
was forced to leave New York tolive with her in Florida and
that's when I got to know her.
It was not easy because my momwas bipolar and she was also a
narcissist that whole dynamic.
It was very unhealthy.
I felt led, while staying withher, to sit with her from time
(15:23):
to time and just talk with mymom, have conversations with her
.
Like, take it back to when shewas a child and she was in her
teen, learned so much about mymom and sometimes she'd be
crying and telling her stories,but I realized this was her
therapy.
She never had the opportunityto really sit with anyone and
(15:45):
see about her trauma and my momtalked about a time when she was
being, when she was raped bythree men wow age, she never
talked about it.
So she's bearing that guilt andshame for years because you're
not supposed to talk about thesethings, right, it happens to so
(16:10):
many of us.
So in learning her in talkingto the woman, the child, the
young, not the mother, becausesometimes we forget our parents.
They were boys and girls beforethey became parents, right?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I was speaking to the woman and she lied that she was
carrying, so I got to know herin a different way.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, it reminds me of how in scripture we talk
about.
You know, the sins of onegeneration are passed on and
from generation to generation.
Because it's not resolved andit's not, we don't forgive
ourselves and bury that then onto another generation and that
(17:07):
chain that's broken of passingit on.
When we hear the message oflove and grace and are able to
forgive ourselves and, like you,then forgive your mother too.
If you can say something aboutthe amount of healing that
(17:33):
brought to you and to also toyour mother, as she was able to
share some of that she didn'tsay it but I know she had a lot
of healing going on with her.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
She did a lot of crying, she was a very emotional
person anyways, but in talkingwith her and the tears would
flow.
Tears would speak volumes.
And even though she didn't saymuch like forgive me, I'm sorry,
her tears did Because I knewthat she felt she also
(18:11):
disappointed us in ways, Raisingher because she didn't know any
better, she did what she couldthat time.
She wasn't given any tools Liketoday, what we have, what we are
privy to, right, what we'reexposed to.
They weren't exposed to thesethings like she didn't have a
(18:32):
mom to teach her and to raiseher and to tell her, for that
grew up on her own.
Her mom died when she was likemaybe about four years old oh,
that's her dad when she was ateen and late in her late teens.
So she didn't have anyone toteach her.
She was learning as she wasgoing Right and our culture.
(18:53):
We're very aggressive people.
We say the worst things thatcomes out of our mouths because
we think that's a form oftherapy.
Instead of saying, well,daughter or son, um, let's see
how we can do this better.
You know, uh, instead ofencouraging us, they'll call us
(19:15):
names like you know, that wasstupid of you.
You're stupid or you're dumb oryou're an idiot and thinking
that's.
I am still learning and healingbecause a few months ago, in
(19:37):
sitting down and praying andmeditating and talking with God,
I remembered that I said somepretty awful things, not to her
face, but behind her, back inanger.
Anger Called her names out ofanger, because I was hurt by the
things that she was sayingabout me and to me.
(20:00):
And now I also took on thetrauma of my siblings.
Right, this is wrong whathappens?
Because I'm the youngest ofeight, so I also, oh, wow, fear,
trauma, bling.
Right, this is what happens,because I'm the youngest of
eight, so I also wow theirtrauma.
So I had to now ask god toforgive me for all the things I
said about my mom that wasnegative and hurtful, even
(20:23):
though I did not say them to her, but I said them out loud to
him.
And in asking for forgiveness,something happened within me.
There was a love that formed inmy heart toward my mom that
never felt before for her hereon earth, never felt.
And, um, I, I, in speakingabout her now, today, I'm
(20:49):
speaking about my mom from adifferent place.
A place of healing, a place ofcompassion, a place of empathy
and love and honor, because,even though she was abusive, I
still learned a lot from her,her strength.
(21:10):
That woman had so much strengthin her faith as well right, wow
, her strength as far as how sheraised us was just very strong
in what she believed in and inwhat she also imparted in us.
So in that regard, I honor herfor that.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I think it's such a blessing when we can see not
only the flaws, if you wish, thethings that weren't so good in
other people, but also see thepositives, the strengths, the
(22:02):
gifts that we receive from them,in spite of, in spite of, from
them, in spite of, in spite ofand in the midst of all of the
rest of it.
And too often it seems like whenwe especially in our culture
(22:24):
these days we see something thatwe might see as negative about
somebody, we just kind of writethat person off and you know,
then everything about the personbecomes negative and you know
that's not really helpful.
(22:44):
Yes, there are some people weneed to be very careful of who
might be dangerous, but themajority of people know, you
know, the the majority of peopleare, you know, kind of like the
rest of us.
We got some faults and we gotsome strengths and good parts.
(23:05):
And to just write somebody offbecause we disagree with them on
something or they've saidsomething or done something that
we may indeed find very hurtful, but there may still be some
gifts there that they give usanyway, yes, I agree with you
(23:30):
100%.
Is that kind of what you helpthe people who you work with to
work through and to come to adifferent place in their life?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, yes.
If I hadn't gone through what Iwent through in my life, there
was no way that I can be to thewomen and the men and the youth,
um to them the way they need meto be to them, cause I
understand pain, I see pain, Ihear pain, I feel pain and I
(24:09):
feel these people's pain and Iwant to be to them.
That church wasn't to me, right.
I want to be to them that thesystem was not to me, because
the system also failed me when Iwent to seek help.
I want to be that mentor that Inever had.
(24:41):
I want to be the pastor that Inever had either at that time in
my life.
I want to be to them thatfriend who told me Aretha, you
are someone, you are beautiful.
I want to be that.
So when I'm with my clients, orspeaking of my clients, or
trying to do what I do for themon a daily basis, or meet with
(25:04):
other organizations and agents,when I'm speaking with
individuals, especially fromother organizations and agencies
, and how we can partnertogether to help the community,
if I am not hearing what I amlistening for, I don't want to
partner with them Because manyof these organizations and
(25:29):
churches or individuals.
They're in it for the money.
They're in it for theirpersonal gain.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
That isn't why I'm doing it and unfortunately, as
you said, some of the churchesare in it for their personal
gain.
That isn't why I'm doing it andunfortunately, as you said,
some of the churches are in itfor wanting to.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
It's very unfortunate .
So if I am not, I'm listeningkeenly on what they're saying,
and if I'm not hearing love,then no, I'm not, because I care
about these people.
I care about the women who areincarcerated.
I care about them when theycome home and what we can do for
(26:06):
them, how we can help them tonot go back in prison.
What can we do for them?
I care about the women who aregoing through transitions.
I care about the women ofdomestic violence, because I
come from a home of domesticviolence.
I care about the young people.
I want to hear from them how wecan help them.
(26:28):
How can we as leaders, asadults, as elders, as the church
, as the community partner andhelp them?
What can we do to make it justa little easier on you and what
you're going through?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Excuse me, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
No, no, no, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I was going to ask is there any one major theme that
you keep hearing over and overfrom these people of what they
need and what they are reallyhungry for trust?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
trust, trust, because if they can't trust you, then
they're not coming to you,they're not going to open up to
you.
They need trust and stability.
Not only the youth, but eventhe older people, the young men,
the women.
They need trust.
How do I know you're going tobe there for me?
(27:30):
So they need to see consistencyfrom us.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right and that, yeah, trust is built over time.
It's not something that happensonce or twice and yeah, that's,
it's um, it's the long game,it's not a short-term thing.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah absolutely trust is extremely important.
They know that you're showingup for them, even if one person
show up for that one person.
I just wrote a blog a couple ofdays ago.
I don't know if you saw it, butI remember when I was teaching
Sunday school for 10 months, Iwas speaking to an entire room
(28:12):
that was empty, empty chairs for10 months straight.
But I kept going and I keptgoing and I kept going.
And I do believe, looking backon it now, that was a test that
God used me to see how faithfulare you in this.
And one point I got frustratedwith the people because I'm
(28:33):
thinking they know Sunday schoolstarts at 10 o'clock and ends
at 11.
But they will just stroll inthere five minutes to 11 and
they want to drag it out and I'mlike, no, we can't do this.
It's from 10 to 11.
I'm wrapping up and I would betalking to empty chairs until
one day.
I sat down.
I said God, do you mean to tellme that I'm going to be here
(28:56):
talking to these empty chairsweek after week after week?
And one lady she was.
She knocked on the door andshe's peeking through the
windows.
And she knocked on the door.
I told her to come in.
But she came in to see one ofthe other elders and I told her
I wasn't there yet.
So, as she was walking away,she turned around and she looked
at me and she said minister,minister, the lord said to tell
(29:18):
you you're not here alone.
All of these chairs are filledwith angels.
You're teaching the angel.
And I sat there in awe.
In awe, right.
So yeah, no matter what willshow up, even if it's for one
person, because we can be theanswer to someone's prayer wow,
(29:41):
yeah, and one person is just asvaluable as 50 or 100.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You know, absolutely.
Each one scripture talks abouthow god loves even one sparrow
or crow or whatever the creatureis, one ant.
You know the little whatever Imean.
We're far more precious to Godthan that, and each person is,
(30:15):
and we so easily forget that.
We so easily forget that.
So how can people get in touchwith you, aretha?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
on my website www n, as in nancy, b as in boy,
lifeorg.
That's www nnblifeorg.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Fantastic.
So I know that I mean I feellike this conversation could go
on a lot, lot longer andhopefully we'll do a part two at
some point and where else thiswill go.
But just so much, thank you forbeing here and sharing your
(31:04):
story and you know it's areminder to all of us about the
value of every single person.
We cannot write anybody off.
You know, no matter what theymay have done in the past, the
past is not the present and it'snot the future, and each and
(31:29):
every one of us is a gift fromGod, and there's love and grace
there from God for everyone, andwe are called to be the agents
of that.
Many times, sometimes in placesand ways that we don't really
realize, and you know yourexperiences of painful past.
(31:53):
You have turned that into agift that you use to bring love
and grace to others, and that istruly a blessing.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So thank you thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Thank you so much, pastor, I appreciate you're very
, very welcome and, um, I inviteeverybody to come back for
another episode of the TiltedHalo.
But most of all, follow and seewhat Aretha is doing and see
how you can be maybe even alittle part of what she's doing,
or at least take some of thelessons from what she does into
(32:32):
your life.
So until next time, as my voicegets all froggy right here,
I'll go speak.
Some blessings to each andevery one of you.
Bye, bye-bye.
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
(32:53):
Leave me some comments, be sureto like, subscribe and share
this episode and catch anotherupcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry, life, mindset and a
whole lot more.
Go to wwwtiltedhalohelpcom,where I've got a resource guide
and other resources waiting foryou, and be sure to say hi to me
(33:16):
, kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
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