April 21, 2025 • 30 mins
Dr. Lucinda Sykes drops a bombshell on The Tilted Halo podcast, revealing research that might forever change how you think about sleep medication. As a retired physician who has helped over 6,000 patients with stress reduction, her mission now focuses on sharing critical information about sleeping pills that many doctors simply aren't discussing with their patients.
The conversation uncovers startling research showing how common sleeping medications like Ambien actually suppress your brain's ability to clean itself at night. This natural cleansing process, called glymphatic flow, helps remove protein wastes that accumulate during waking hours—proteins linked directly to Alzheimer's disease development. Dr. Sykes calls this February 2023 finding the "smoking gun" that helps explain why sleeping pill users face higher dementia risks.
Most alarming are the studies showing significantly shortened lifespans among sleeping pill users. Landmark research comparing medical records found people taking sleeping pills had 3.5 times higher death rates over just a 2.5-year period, while Korean studies suggest users may live five years less than non-users who sleep the same duration. Despite these risks, many physicians continue prescribing these medications long-term, even though medical authorities recommend limiting use to just 1-4 weeks.
The fundamental misunderstanding, Dr. Sykes explains, is that these medications don't actually promote natural sleep—they sedate the brain, interfering with critical nighttime functions like memory processing, immune system boosting, and cardiovascular regulation. Whether you currently take sleeping pills or know someone who does, this episode provides essential information to have an informed conversation with healthcare providers about safer alternatives for better sleep.
Part 2 is coming next Monday!
Learn more about Dr. Lucinda Sykes and her teachings at lucindagift.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not, and how in the world
to deal with that?
And men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:45):
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
And this is a podcast, a showfor people of faith, especially
women of faith, who knowperfectly well that we are not
perfect.
Thus our halo gets a little offkilter once in a while.
(01:06):
And I'm Pastor Kathleen Panning,your host for this show, and it
is my delightful pleasure towelcome to the Tilted Halos
someone I have interviewedbefore on a Flame Ministry show,
dr Lucinda Sykes.
She is a retired Canadianphysician and a longtime teacher
(01:30):
of mindfulness.
She directed Meditation forHealth Clinic in Toronto,
helping more than 6,000 patientswho were referred for medical
programs of stress reduction.
We can all relate to that thesedays.
Since retiring from medicalpractice, however, dr Lucinda
(01:50):
continues public speaking andprivate coaching for women over
50.
Her work is based on thescience of deep, natural sleep
throughout life, especiallyhelping people reduce their need
for sleeping pills, and that'swhere we're going to focus today
(02:12):
.
Because, dr Lucinda, welcome tothe Tilton For one to be with
you again, Kathy.
Yeah, and we will, in anothershow, talk more about, uh, sleep
practices, um, natural ones,but I want you to share with our
(02:33):
viewers and listeners some ofthe latest research that you
have and about sleeping pills.
Oh yeah, we shared a little bitabout this and I'm going oh, we
need to get this out to abroader public.
So what's one thing?
(02:54):
Let's just start with one ofthe most worrisome things that
you have found in the latestresearch about sleeping pills.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, for me, the overarching worrisome fact is
that this information has beenwith us now for a couple of
decades and yet it's not beingtransmitted well, patients are
not being informed, and youcould even say that sleeping
pills are overprescribed, givenwhat science now tells us about
(03:28):
them.
So that's the background to it.
I could offer further that mymission now I've retired from
medicine and my mission now isin part to get this information
out, part to get thisinformation out, because it was
only maybe five years ago that Iread the research indicating
(03:48):
that people who take sleepingpills are more prone to develop
Alzheimer's disease.
And you know, my deargrandmother succumbed too early
to Alzheimer's disease.
She was only in her 60s and bygosh she took sleeping pills.
As far as I know, every night Iused to go to the drugstore and
pick up grandma's sleepingpills, and now I'm recognizing
(04:09):
that her illness, at least inpart, could have been
underpinned by the sleepingpills.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So is the research showing that sleeping pills are
a direct cause or a contributingfactor.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
This is a great question, and it's only last
month, February, for I don'tknow when this podcast will be
viewed, but in February of 2025,research is just being
published that's showing thatsleeping pills, in this case a
prominent sleeping pill, Ambiensuppresses the brain's capacity
(04:54):
to clean itself at night.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That's a smoking gun, kathleen?
Okay.
So what's the importance of thebrain cleaning itself at night
In gun caffeine?
Okay.
So what's the importance of thebrain cleaning itself at night?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, for a few decades now, people who are
researchers looking closely atAlzheimer's disease have
discovered that there are atleast a couple of protein wastes
that accumulate in the brain ofpeople who are developing and
succumbing to Alzheimer'sdisease, and these protein
(05:27):
wastes in part of the result ofmetabolism.
During the day we're busythinking about things, our brain
accumulates these wasteproteins and then the brain now
we're learning cleanses itself.
In fact, as some researcherssay, it's like a power wash that
at night, while you are asleep,your brain in a way is not
(05:49):
sleeping.
Your mind is sleeping, but yourbrain is involved in many
processes.
But in particular, the brainchanges its configuration,
spaces open up and the cerebralspinal fluid floods through and
helps to eliminate the toxinsthat have accumulated earlier in
(06:10):
the day, and this is a basicscience.
We call it now glymphatic flow,and so this has been discovered
.
About 15 years now We've knownabout glymphatic flow.
Now we've known aboutglymphatic flow, and now this
paper published just last monthshowing that this prominent
(06:30):
sleeping pill suppresses thebrain's capacity to do this.
Cleansing Now is that true ofall sleeping pills in general
Not as yet, but I'm talkingthroughout my talk I'll be
referring to the most popular,the most commonly prescribed
sleeping pills.
We call them thebenzodiazepines and the
(06:52):
benzodiazepine-like sleepingpills.
We call them the Zed pills, andthey have a very common
mechanism of action they workthrough the GABA system of the
brain.
A lot of science here, butlet's keep it simple.
They work through the GABAsystem of the brain, and the
GABA system suppresses brainactivity, slows down the
(07:13):
activity of the brain.
So they all work through thissingle GABA system and, in
particular, they affect aparticular receptor in the brain
, and so one sleeping pill isvery likely, you know, going to
be emblematic for the activityof other sleeping pills,
although I'm sure that theresearchers are now going to
(07:35):
investigate the whole range ofsleeping pill to see is this
happening with all of them.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, I know I've heard some things in probably
the last year or so more aboutthe importance of the lymphatic
system and so, as I understandit and I'm not a medical doctor
by any means but that's a systemthat helps our bodies, like you
(08:04):
said, get rid of toxins, and weall know we have lymph nodes
and that lymphatic system workswith those things.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Right, right, kathleen.
And that until just recently,as I say, about 10, 15 years ago
, we thought that the brain didnot have a lymphatic system,
because pathologists could notsee evidence of a lymphatic
system.
But now there's this discoverythat, hey, especially in the
(08:35):
nighttime, the brain opens upchannels that function like a
lymphatic system, but we call itthe glymphatic system, so it's
with a G at the front there.
The glymphatic system opens up,the spaces around the blood
vessels open up because thebrain cells actually change
(08:56):
their configuration, and thenthis marvelous system lets the
cerebrospinal fluids sweepthrough and gives the brain a
good cleanse.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
That is so interesting.
You know it's like we need.
What you're saying is that weneed that cleansing of the
system in our brains for ourbrain to be able to function
well.
So these proteins um, I assumethey have some beneficial
(09:29):
function at at least at pointsin our life yes, the the result
of the brain's processing togive us consciousness.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Okay, the brain metabolizes, yeah and um.
We're thinking our fancythoughts, and waste products are
being made by the brain asthese fancy thoughts are being
given to us through the brain,and these proteins, now waste
products, do accumulate in thebrain and then, especially at
(10:02):
night, they are swept away.
Because while we're awake thisprocess doesn't happen so
readily.
It's while we're sleeping.
And this also helps us to nowunderstand why the research
shows us that people who aren'tgetting enough sleep are more
prone to develop Alzheimer's aswell.
And heck, that would be.
(10:23):
Because not getting enoughsleep, your brain doesn't get a
chance to do as thorough acleaning.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Not getting enough sleep, your brain doesn't get a
chance to do as thorough acleaning.
That is so interesting.
I think about some of the dataand comments that have been out
these days, not just aboutsleeping pills, but about
children who stay up too late,playing video games and things
(10:50):
like that, and how that bluelight from a computer, like
we're both using, or televisionor a phone, how that interrupts
or affects our sleep.
And now you're saying thesleeping pills may have a
similar or perhaps even moreprofound effect.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yes, and let's look at the paradox of this, kathleen
, because that's where themisunderstanding comes in,
because it's a contradiction.
These pills get called sleepingpills.
Actually, physicians call themhypnotics.
They don't really call themsleeping pills, but in popular
parlance we call them sleepingpills rather than sedatives.
(11:37):
And the sleeping pills do nothelp the brain to naturally
sleep.
Instead, they sedate the brain,and a state of sedation.
Well, you could liken it toalcohol.
Alcohol is a sedative.
Drills are also sedatives.
Alcohol also workssignificantly through the GABA
(12:02):
system and we all know if awoman unfortunately has a little
too much wine at the end of theparty, she's going to start to
feel drowsy and relaxed and shemight even, shall we say, pass
out.
And someone viewing her on thecouch there will say, oh, she's
sleeping.
But we know that she isn'tsleeping, she's under the
(12:23):
influence of the alcohol.
And when she awakens in themorning she will know that she
didn't really have a restorativesleep.
And sleeping pills are workingthrough the same GABA system.
They too are sedating the brain, just as alcohol sedates the
(12:44):
brain.
But the state that happens isnot natural sleep, because, heck
, in natural sleep your brain isvery busy Cycling through a
series of brain states over thecourse of the night is boosting
your immune system for you.
It's laying down your memories.
(13:04):
It's relaxing yourcardiovascular system.
It's allowing your endocrinesystem to do what it does.
The brain is very busy, but asedative suppresses brain
activity.
So all this important activitythat your brain is wanting to do
for you as you sleep, you takea sedative, you're suppressing
(13:28):
brain activity and, of course,in part that suppresses the
thinking mind.
The brain is giving us thethinking mind.
So we're lying there, we take asleeping pill and then soon
enough the thinking mindsubsides and we could even in
retrospect say oh yes, I had agood sleep, but the brain was
(13:49):
impaired in its other functions,because that's what sedatives
do.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So, yeah, I think about that.
I think there's a lot ofmedications that, yeah, I've
taken over the years, not asleeping pill, but like a cold
medication, like someantihistamines or some other
medications that say they maymake you drowsy.
(14:17):
Yes, are they doing the samesort of thing in?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
the brain.
As I understand, there is somethought that the antihistamines
are also activating through theGABA system, but I haven't
studied that thoroughly.
But as I understand, there issome thought that antihistamines
can function as sleeping pillsbecause they do also act through
the GABA system.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
That's interesting because when we're recording
this, it's springtime where I amand I have allergies, so those
kinds of medications are thingsthat are important to me.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And they get used as such by many people.
So-called over-the-counterCephaloplasts tend to be one of
these antihistamines.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And they also have pernicious side effects.
Yeah, lots of research comingout about that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, and I mean, like I said, there are a lot of
medications.
If you actually sit down andread through the possible side
effects, Some of them say theymay make you drowsy.
Don't drive until you know howthis affects you.
I've seen that on likeantibiotics or some other things
.
So I would assume that they'rehaving maybe not quite the same,
(15:40):
but a similar toss in chemicalsinto the brain.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Many times, maybe even most times, those chemicals
are a little inconvenient forthe poor brain.
The brain is busy doing all themany complex tasks that it is
meant to do for us and you tossin chemicals and the brain has
(16:03):
to contend with the effect ofthese chemicals.
And over time the brain evengets very influenced by these
chemicals.
It changes the configuration ofbrain receptors and so on, just
in part to adapt to theinconvenient truth that it's
dealing with these chemicals.
But for the most part, if wecan, we don't want a lot of
(16:25):
chemicals because the brain'sdoing the best she can as she is
.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
We don't want a lot of chemicals because Sabrine's
doing the best she can as she isyeah, that's quite a sometimes
a quandary then for people as toyou know, you need to take
certain medications for otherthings.
Now, most of us don't reallyneed to, because there are other
(16:53):
ways to learn about sleep, andwe're going to talk about that
in a different segment here.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
But, um, but for many other things there are
medications that people need yes, I wouldn't argue with that to
people are kept alive by certainmedications.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, so it becomes kind of a which is worse type of
situation, and for someonewho's having a lot of issues
with sleep, they could befeeling some of the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, and that's where my work comes in, because by
and large, the the sleepingpills they're not necessary.
Yeah, and that's a whole field,that's my work.
But they're not like you.
Maybe you have a heartcondition and you're taking
digitalis or the like and thatis keeping you alive in some
(17:46):
cases.
Then no one would argue thatyou should not be taking that.
We just say hurrah that you'vegot access to it.
But an optional pill like asleeping pill.
Basically it comes down to it'san issue of the mind.
The mind is saying I should beable to sleep right now.
I'm not sleeping right now.
Gosh, I'm going to take a pilland make my brain go to sleep.
(18:10):
It's almost like overpoweringthe brain Again.
Maybe you've just been giventerrible news you've lost a
family member, or you're in thehospital preparing for surgery
the next day, or you're in thehospital preparing for surgery
the next day.
(18:33):
A sleep medication may beentirely appropriate given your
circumstances.
So I am not here on a mission toeliminate sleeping pills, but I
am wanting to inform peopleabout the risks that are
involved so they can makeintelligent decisions and they
can also discuss it in anintelligent way with their
physician, because you know thedoctors.
They're busy and this researchis kind of new, although it's
(18:57):
not that new anymore.
But the physicians let's faceit, it's easier to write a
prescription than to spend sometime with a patient and to
inquire about their sleep andeven look at other possibilities
or in a way to sedate the brain.
There's even an excellentresearch paper came out from a
(19:20):
medical sociologist who wasinterviewing physicians about
their prescribing habits aroundsleeping pills, and the title of
his paper is sometimes it'seasier to write a prescription.
He's quoting a physician whosaid that Now I'm not
castigating my colleagues, it istrue and I know that many now
(19:44):
are making other approaches tosleep problems available.
My own family clinic now hasregular group meetings for
people who have sleep problemsso they can be informed rather
than immediately take apharmaceutical route.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much pressure that many
people feel these days and wewant this instant result.
Yes, we live in an instantsociety in many respects in the
Western culture, and you know,pop food into a microwave and
(20:24):
it's all done in, you know, amatter of a couple minutes.
Microwave and it's all done in,you know, a matter of a couple
minutes.
And as opposed to spending allday cooking or several hours
doing that.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
So you know, and you have this pill that you think of
oh, it's just sleep, given toyou by your trusted caregiver,
and it just puts me into sleep.
You think of it almost like alight switch.
Oh, yes, I can sleep, I'll just.
You know, I have clients thinkto me and they say, oh, I
couldn't sleep in the middle ofthe night so I just took a
(20:55):
sleeping pill.
And but you see, then the brainhas to digest this chemical.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, yeah, what is something that, um, uh, a faith
community, a faith leader, mightbe able to do other than for
herself or himself?
But, um, in meeting with peopletalking about stress reduction,
whatever, to help people knowabout the potential dangers and
(21:28):
complications of too muchreliance on sleeping pills?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yes, yes.
So the information that I'mproviding here is not
extraordinary, it's all throughthe scientific research,
literature and mainstreammedicine is beginning to take in
the implications.
In fact, medical authoritiesrecommend that sleeping pills do
(21:57):
not be prescribed for longerthan, say, three or four weeks.
Pills do not be prescribed forlonger than, say, three or four
weeks, and some jurisdictionsnow are changing that to one or
two weeks.
So medical authorities aresaying don't be taking them
chronically.
And so that's there in thebackground.
Your physician will have beeninformed, or at least that is
(22:19):
the general teaching, thatsleeping pill prescriptions
should be limited, and one candiscuss it with the doctor and
say you know, I understand thatthese are not so good for my
health, and it's not only thebrain health, but it's also for
the health of the heart, for theimmune system.
Gosh evidence showing that lifeis shortened if you have
(22:45):
sleeping pills this is justresearch.
So we're looking at largepopulations of people, but the
statistics are astonishing.
A couple of studies now showingthat life is shortened by even
three or four years.
Wow, okay, I don't want to do alot of research talking here
unless you're interested, but asmuch as three or four or even
(23:09):
five years.
A study I saw just came out ofKorea examining the health
records, the government healthrecords and scientists comparing
groups of people who don't takesleeping pills with groups of
people who do take sleepingpills.
They're sleeping the sameduration each night and the
(23:30):
people not taking the sleepingpills are living more than five
years longer.
Well, it's astonishing.
I find it hard to believe this,which you see, I've really
looked carefully at the research.
It's not just one or twostudies, so all the way back to
1979.
Oh wow, all the way back.
(23:52):
The American Cancer Societysent out a questionnaire to, I
think it was, thousands ofpeople inquiring about their
life habits and then followingup for cancer and discovering
that people who were takingsleeping pills had an increased
risk for cancer.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's interesting too.
Yeah, is that any oneparticular kind of cancer?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, it's definitely different things.
Breast cancer is pretty commonin the list of answers that are
increased, and I do have anumber of papers in this, but
this 1979 study was just verygeneral.
Yeah, and they unfortunatelydid not follow up on that
because that wasn't theirmandate.
(24:39):
It was just a bit of a finedown, but that was foreshadowing
.
Then, intensively in 2012, wehave the great psychiatrist,
daniel Kripke, comparing twogroups of patients.
He had access to the electronicmedical records of a large
(25:02):
integrated health system in theUnited States and he compared
the medical records of 10,000people who were prescribed
sleeping pills, contrasted themwith the medical records of
another 20,000 people who werevery similar in age and
diagnosis but they were nottaking sleeping pills, and he
(25:22):
and his researchers looked atthe two and a half year snapshot
of their medical history and hefound that the people taking
sleeping pills during that twoand a half year period had three
and a half times the death rate.
Wow, wow, very similarotherwise, you see.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, that's significant yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
If you think of these pills as affecting brain
function and if you take themevery night, it can't be good
for your health.
Yeah, I said, this is thesmoking gun.
Just recently, just last month,we get the direct evidence that
the chemical of this sleepingpill is interfering with the
brain self-cleansing mechanism.
(26:09):
And that's just to account.
Now for all thisepidemiological research showing
us a shorter lifespan andincreased incidence of
Alzheimer's and so on, we startto wonder why.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, if it's affecting the cleansing
mechanism of the brain, I wouldpresume it could also be
affecting the cleansingmechanism of the rest of the
body.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And the function of the liver and how the liver
cleanses things and all kinds ofdifferent things.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
The research showing an increase in certain forms of
liver disease among sleepingpills.
We see an increased incidenceof glaucoma among sleeping pill
users.
We see kidney disease morecommon among sleeping pill users
, and the list is surprisinglylong.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, the filtering systems of the body.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yes, yes, so interesting yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And you know if, thinking about the brain, you
know there's brain and seems tobe and I don't know if this is
accurate increases in certainkinds of brain cancers and
tumors.
And it would be interesting ifthe sleeping pills have any
(27:32):
connection with that too.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Glioplastomas and things like that.
It would be surprising becauseyou see this process at night
cleansing the brain, helping thebrain to support the immune
system.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Oh.
And we do have papers showingan increased incidence of cancer
among sleeping pill users us asfaith leaders, professional or
otherwise, to know about for one, for our own health and for the
(28:06):
health in our family, but alsoto share with members in our
faith communities that there isresearch out, and to talk with
your physician and even to pressthe physician sometimes if they
just easily write thoseprescriptions and saying, well,
(28:28):
isn't there some research?
You know what about more recentresearch and things?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yes, and that's very reasonable.
That's not being a troublemaker.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Right and to be your own health advocate or as a
faith leader, sometimes for usto be a health advocate for
somebody in our faith community.
So thank you, Dr Sykes.
We're going to do anotherepisode on helping people have
(28:58):
better sleep habits and thingsthat we can do naturally without
the pill.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Wonderful.
I feel so glad to get thisinformation out, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And so for people who are watching and listening,
please stick around or look forthe second part of this or the
first part, depending upon whichone you see first of this.
So, to everybody who's tuningin, god's peace and God's
blessings, and see you next time.
(29:29):
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry, life, mindset and a
whole lot more, go towwwtiltedhalohelpcom, where I've
(29:55):
got a resource guide and otherresources waiting for you, and
be sure to say hi to me,kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not, and how in the world
to deal with that?
And men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:45):
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
And this is a podcast, a showfor people of faith, especially
women of faith, who knowperfectly well that we are not
perfect.
Thus our halo gets a little offkilter once in a while.
(01:06):
And I'm Pastor Kathleen Panning,your host for this show, and it
is my delightful pleasure towelcome to the Tilted Halos
someone I have interviewedbefore on a Flame Ministry show,
dr Lucinda Sykes.
She is a retired Canadianphysician and a longtime teacher
(01:30):
of mindfulness.
She directed Meditation forHealth Clinic in Toronto,
helping more than 6,000 patientswho were referred for medical
programs of stress reduction.
We can all relate to that thesedays.
Since retiring from medicalpractice, however, dr Lucinda
(01:50):
continues public speaking andprivate coaching for women over
50.
Her work is based on thescience of deep, natural sleep
throughout life, especiallyhelping people reduce their need
for sleeping pills, and that'swhere we're going to focus today
(02:12):
.
Because, dr Lucinda, welcome tothe Tilton For one to be with
you again, Kathy.
Yeah, and we will, in anothershow, talk more about, uh, sleep
practices, um, natural ones,but I want you to share with our
(02:33):
viewers and listeners some ofthe latest research that you
have and about sleeping pills.
Oh yeah, we shared a little bitabout this and I'm going oh, we
need to get this out to abroader public.
So what's one thing?
(02:54):
Let's just start with one ofthe most worrisome things that
you have found in the latestresearch about sleeping pills.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, for me, the overarching worrisome fact is
that this information has beenwith us now for a couple of
decades and yet it's not beingtransmitted well, patients are
not being informed, and youcould even say that sleeping
pills are overprescribed, givenwhat science now tells us about
(03:28):
them.
So that's the background to it.
I could offer further that mymission now I've retired from
medicine and my mission now isin part to get this information
out, part to get thisinformation out, because it was
only maybe five years ago that Iread the research indicating
(03:48):
that people who take sleepingpills are more prone to develop
Alzheimer's disease.
And you know, my deargrandmother succumbed too early
to Alzheimer's disease.
She was only in her 60s and bygosh she took sleeping pills.
As far as I know, every night Iused to go to the drugstore and
pick up grandma's sleepingpills, and now I'm recognizing
(04:09):
that her illness, at least inpart, could have been
underpinned by the sleepingpills.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So is the research showing that sleeping pills are
a direct cause or a contributingfactor.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
This is a great question, and it's only last
month, February, for I don'tknow when this podcast will be
viewed, but in February of 2025,research is just being
published that's showing thatsleeping pills, in this case a
prominent sleeping pill, Ambiensuppresses the brain's capacity
(04:54):
to clean itself at night.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That's a smoking gun, kathleen?
Okay.
So what's the importance of thebrain cleaning itself at night
In gun caffeine?
Okay.
So what's the importance of thebrain cleaning itself at night?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, for a few decades now, people who are
researchers looking closely atAlzheimer's disease have
discovered that there are atleast a couple of protein wastes
that accumulate in the brain ofpeople who are developing and
succumbing to Alzheimer'sdisease, and these protein
(05:27):
wastes in part of the result ofmetabolism.
During the day we're busythinking about things, our brain
accumulates these wasteproteins and then the brain now
we're learning cleanses itself.
In fact, as some researcherssay, it's like a power wash that
at night, while you are asleep,your brain in a way is not
(05:49):
sleeping.
Your mind is sleeping, but yourbrain is involved in many
processes.
But in particular, the brainchanges its configuration,
spaces open up and the cerebralspinal fluid floods through and
helps to eliminate the toxinsthat have accumulated earlier in
(06:10):
the day, and this is a basicscience.
We call it now glymphatic flow,and so this has been discovered
.
About 15 years now We've knownabout glymphatic flow.
Now we've known aboutglymphatic flow, and now this
paper published just last monthshowing that this prominent
(06:30):
sleeping pill suppresses thebrain's capacity to do this.
Cleansing Now is that true ofall sleeping pills in general
Not as yet, but I'm talkingthroughout my talk I'll be
referring to the most popular,the most commonly prescribed
sleeping pills.
We call them thebenzodiazepines and the
(06:52):
benzodiazepine-like sleepingpills.
We call them the Zed pills, andthey have a very common
mechanism of action they workthrough the GABA system of the
brain.
A lot of science here, butlet's keep it simple.
They work through the GABAsystem of the brain, and the
GABA system suppresses brainactivity, slows down the
(07:13):
activity of the brain.
So they all work through thissingle GABA system and, in
particular, they affect aparticular receptor in the brain
, and so one sleeping pill isvery likely, you know, going to
be emblematic for the activityof other sleeping pills,
although I'm sure that theresearchers are now going to
(07:35):
investigate the whole range ofsleeping pill to see is this
happening with all of them.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, I know I've heard some things in probably
the last year or so more aboutthe importance of the lymphatic
system and so, as I understandit and I'm not a medical doctor
by any means but that's a systemthat helps our bodies, like you
(08:04):
said, get rid of toxins, and weall know we have lymph nodes
and that lymphatic system workswith those things.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Right, right, kathleen.
And that until just recently,as I say, about 10, 15 years ago
, we thought that the brain didnot have a lymphatic system,
because pathologists could notsee evidence of a lymphatic
system.
But now there's this discoverythat, hey, especially in the
(08:35):
nighttime, the brain opens upchannels that function like a
lymphatic system, but we call itthe glymphatic system, so it's
with a G at the front there.
The glymphatic system opens up,the spaces around the blood
vessels open up because thebrain cells actually change
(08:56):
their configuration, and thenthis marvelous system lets the
cerebrospinal fluids sweepthrough and gives the brain a
good cleanse.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
That is so interesting.
You know it's like we need.
What you're saying is that weneed that cleansing of the
system in our brains for ourbrain to be able to function
well.
So these proteins um, I assumethey have some beneficial
(09:29):
function at at least at pointsin our life yes, the the result
of the brain's processing togive us consciousness.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Okay, the brain metabolizes, yeah and um.
We're thinking our fancythoughts, and waste products are
being made by the brain asthese fancy thoughts are being
given to us through the brain,and these proteins, now waste
products, do accumulate in thebrain and then, especially at
(10:02):
night, they are swept away.
Because while we're awake thisprocess doesn't happen so
readily.
It's while we're sleeping.
And this also helps us to nowunderstand why the research
shows us that people who aren'tgetting enough sleep are more
prone to develop Alzheimer's aswell.
And heck, that would be.
(10:23):
Because not getting enoughsleep, your brain doesn't get a
chance to do as thorough acleaning.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Not getting enough sleep, your brain doesn't get a
chance to do as thorough acleaning.
That is so interesting.
I think about some of the dataand comments that have been out
these days, not just aboutsleeping pills, but about
children who stay up too late,playing video games and things
(10:50):
like that, and how that bluelight from a computer, like
we're both using, or televisionor a phone, how that interrupts
or affects our sleep.
And now you're saying thesleeping pills may have a
similar or perhaps even moreprofound effect.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yes, and let's look at the paradox of this, kathleen
, because that's where themisunderstanding comes in,
because it's a contradiction.
These pills get called sleepingpills.
Actually, physicians call themhypnotics.
They don't really call themsleeping pills, but in popular
parlance we call them sleepingpills rather than sedatives.
(11:37):
And the sleeping pills do nothelp the brain to naturally
sleep.
Instead, they sedate the brain,and a state of sedation.
Well, you could liken it toalcohol.
Alcohol is a sedative.
Drills are also sedatives.
Alcohol also workssignificantly through the GABA
(12:02):
system and we all know if awoman unfortunately has a little
too much wine at the end of theparty, she's going to start to
feel drowsy and relaxed and shemight even, shall we say, pass
out.
And someone viewing her on thecouch there will say, oh, she's
sleeping.
But we know that she isn'tsleeping, she's under the
(12:23):
influence of the alcohol.
And when she awakens in themorning she will know that she
didn't really have a restorativesleep.
And sleeping pills are workingthrough the same GABA system.
They too are sedating the brain, just as alcohol sedates the
(12:44):
brain.
But the state that happens isnot natural sleep, because, heck
, in natural sleep your brain isvery busy Cycling through a
series of brain states over thecourse of the night is boosting
your immune system for you.
It's laying down your memories.
(13:04):
It's relaxing yourcardiovascular system.
It's allowing your endocrinesystem to do what it does.
The brain is very busy, but asedative suppresses brain
activity.
So all this important activitythat your brain is wanting to do
for you as you sleep, you takea sedative, you're suppressing
(13:28):
brain activity and, of course,in part that suppresses the
thinking mind.
The brain is giving us thethinking mind.
So we're lying there, we take asleeping pill and then soon
enough the thinking mindsubsides and we could even in
retrospect say oh yes, I had agood sleep, but the brain was
(13:49):
impaired in its other functions,because that's what sedatives
do.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So, yeah, I think about that.
I think there's a lot ofmedications that, yeah, I've
taken over the years, not asleeping pill, but like a cold
medication, like someantihistamines or some other
medications that say they maymake you drowsy.
(14:17):
Yes, are they doing the samesort of thing in?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
the brain.
As I understand, there is somethought that the antihistamines
are also activating through theGABA system, but I haven't
studied that thoroughly.
But as I understand, there issome thought that antihistamines
can function as sleeping pillsbecause they do also act through
the GABA system.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
That's interesting because when we're recording
this, it's springtime where I amand I have allergies, so those
kinds of medications are thingsthat are important to me.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And they get used as such by many people.
So-called over-the-counterCephaloplasts tend to be one of
these antihistamines.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And they also have pernicious side effects.
Yeah, lots of research comingout about that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, and I mean, like I said, there are a lot of
medications.
If you actually sit down andread through the possible side
effects, Some of them say theymay make you drowsy.
Don't drive until you know howthis affects you.
I've seen that on likeantibiotics or some other things
.
So I would assume that they'rehaving maybe not quite the same,
(15:40):
but a similar toss in chemicalsinto the brain.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Many times, maybe even most times, those chemicals
are a little inconvenient forthe poor brain.
The brain is busy doing all themany complex tasks that it is
meant to do for us and you tossin chemicals and the brain has
(16:03):
to contend with the effect ofthese chemicals.
And over time the brain evengets very influenced by these
chemicals.
It changes the configuration ofbrain receptors and so on, just
in part to adapt to theinconvenient truth that it's
dealing with these chemicals.
But for the most part, if wecan, we don't want a lot of
(16:25):
chemicals because the brain'sdoing the best she can as she is
.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
We don't want a lot of chemicals because Sabrine's
doing the best she can as she isyeah, that's quite a sometimes
a quandary then for people as toyou know, you need to take
certain medications for otherthings.
Now, most of us don't reallyneed to, because there are other
(16:53):
ways to learn about sleep, andwe're going to talk about that
in a different segment here.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
But, um, but for many other things there are
medications that people need yes, I wouldn't argue with that to
people are kept alive by certainmedications.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, so it becomes kind of a which is worse type of
situation, and for someonewho's having a lot of issues
with sleep, they could befeeling some of the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, and that's where my work comes in, because by
and large, the the sleepingpills they're not necessary.
Yeah, and that's a whole field,that's my work.
But they're not like you.
Maybe you have a heartcondition and you're taking
digitalis or the like and thatis keeping you alive in some
(17:46):
cases.
Then no one would argue thatyou should not be taking that.
We just say hurrah that you'vegot access to it.
But an optional pill like asleeping pill.
Basically it comes down to it'san issue of the mind.
The mind is saying I should beable to sleep right now.
I'm not sleeping right now.
Gosh, I'm going to take a pilland make my brain go to sleep.
(18:10):
It's almost like overpoweringthe brain Again.
Maybe you've just been giventerrible news you've lost a
family member, or you're in thehospital preparing for surgery
the next day, or you're in thehospital preparing for surgery
the next day.
(18:33):
A sleep medication may beentirely appropriate given your
circumstances.
So I am not here on a mission toeliminate sleeping pills, but I
am wanting to inform peopleabout the risks that are
involved so they can makeintelligent decisions and they
can also discuss it in anintelligent way with their
physician, because you know thedoctors.
They're busy and this researchis kind of new, although it's
(18:57):
not that new anymore.
But the physicians let's faceit, it's easier to write a
prescription than to spend sometime with a patient and to
inquire about their sleep andeven look at other possibilities
or in a way to sedate the brain.
There's even an excellentresearch paper came out from a
(19:20):
medical sociologist who wasinterviewing physicians about
their prescribing habits aroundsleeping pills, and the title of
his paper is sometimes it'seasier to write a prescription.
He's quoting a physician whosaid that Now I'm not
castigating my colleagues, it istrue and I know that many now
(19:44):
are making other approaches tosleep problems available.
My own family clinic now hasregular group meetings for
people who have sleep problemsso they can be informed rather
than immediately take apharmaceutical route.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much pressure that many
people feel these days and wewant this instant result.
Yes, we live in an instantsociety in many respects in the
Western culture, and you know,pop food into a microwave and
(20:24):
it's all done in, you know, amatter of a couple minutes.
Microwave and it's all done in,you know, a matter of a couple
minutes.
And as opposed to spending allday cooking or several hours
doing that.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
So you know, and you have this pill that you think of
oh, it's just sleep, given toyou by your trusted caregiver,
and it just puts me into sleep.
You think of it almost like alight switch.
Oh, yes, I can sleep, I'll just.
You know, I have clients thinkto me and they say, oh, I
couldn't sleep in the middle ofthe night so I just took a
(20:55):
sleeping pill.
And but you see, then the brainhas to digest this chemical.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, yeah, what is something that, um, uh, a faith
community, a faith leader, mightbe able to do other than for
herself or himself?
But, um, in meeting with peopletalking about stress reduction,
whatever, to help people knowabout the potential dangers and
(21:28):
complications of too muchreliance on sleeping pills?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yes, yes.
So the information that I'mproviding here is not
extraordinary, it's all throughthe scientific research,
literature and mainstreammedicine is beginning to take in
the implications.
In fact, medical authoritiesrecommend that sleeping pills do
(21:57):
not be prescribed for longerthan, say, three or four weeks.
Pills do not be prescribed forlonger than, say, three or four
weeks, and some jurisdictionsnow are changing that to one or
two weeks.
So medical authorities aresaying don't be taking them
chronically.
And so that's there in thebackground.
Your physician will have beeninformed, or at least that is
(22:19):
the general teaching, thatsleeping pill prescriptions
should be limited, and one candiscuss it with the doctor and
say you know, I understand thatthese are not so good for my
health, and it's not only thebrain health, but it's also for
the health of the heart, for theimmune system.
Gosh evidence showing that lifeis shortened if you have
(22:45):
sleeping pills this is justresearch.
So we're looking at largepopulations of people, but the
statistics are astonishing.
A couple of studies now showingthat life is shortened by even
three or four years.
Wow, okay, I don't want to do alot of research talking here
unless you're interested, but asmuch as three or four or even
(23:09):
five years.
A study I saw just came out ofKorea examining the health
records, the government healthrecords and scientists comparing
groups of people who don't takesleeping pills with groups of
people who do take sleepingpills.
They're sleeping the sameduration each night and the
(23:30):
people not taking the sleepingpills are living more than five
years longer.
Well, it's astonishing.
I find it hard to believe this,which you see, I've really
looked carefully at the research.
It's not just one or twostudies, so all the way back to
1979.
Oh wow, all the way back.
(23:52):
The American Cancer Societysent out a questionnaire to, I
think it was, thousands ofpeople inquiring about their
life habits and then followingup for cancer and discovering
that people who were takingsleeping pills had an increased
risk for cancer.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's interesting too.
Yeah, is that any oneparticular kind of cancer?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, it's definitely different things.
Breast cancer is pretty commonin the list of answers that are
increased, and I do have anumber of papers in this, but
this 1979 study was just verygeneral.
Yeah, and they unfortunatelydid not follow up on that
because that wasn't theirmandate.
(24:39):
It was just a bit of a finedown, but that was foreshadowing
.
Then, intensively in 2012, wehave the great psychiatrist,
daniel Kripke, comparing twogroups of patients.
He had access to the electronicmedical records of a large
(25:02):
integrated health system in theUnited States and he compared
the medical records of 10,000people who were prescribed
sleeping pills, contrasted themwith the medical records of
another 20,000 people who werevery similar in age and
diagnosis but they were nottaking sleeping pills, and he
(25:22):
and his researchers looked atthe two and a half year snapshot
of their medical history and hefound that the people taking
sleeping pills during that twoand a half year period had three
and a half times the death rate.
Wow, wow, very similarotherwise, you see.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, that's significant yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
If you think of these pills as affecting brain
function and if you take themevery night, it can't be good
for your health.
Yeah, I said, this is thesmoking gun.
Just recently, just last month,we get the direct evidence that
the chemical of this sleepingpill is interfering with the
brain self-cleansing mechanism.
(26:09):
And that's just to account.
Now for all thisepidemiological research showing
us a shorter lifespan andincreased incidence of
Alzheimer's and so on, we startto wonder why.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, if it's affecting the cleansing
mechanism of the brain, I wouldpresume it could also be
affecting the cleansingmechanism of the rest of the
body.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And the function of the liver and how the liver
cleanses things and all kinds ofdifferent things.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
The research showing an increase in certain forms of
liver disease among sleepingpills.
We see an increased incidenceof glaucoma among sleeping pill
users.
We see kidney disease morecommon among sleeping pill users
, and the list is surprisinglylong.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, the filtering systems of the body.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yes, yes, so interesting yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And you know if, thinking about the brain, you
know there's brain and seems tobe and I don't know if this is
accurate increases in certainkinds of brain cancers and
tumors.
And it would be interesting ifthe sleeping pills have any
(27:32):
connection with that too.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Glioplastomas and things like that.
It would be surprising becauseyou see this process at night
cleansing the brain, helping thebrain to support the immune
system.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Oh.
And we do have papers showingan increased incidence of cancer
among sleeping pill users us asfaith leaders, professional or
otherwise, to know about for one, for our own health and for the
(28:06):
health in our family, but alsoto share with members in our
faith communities that there isresearch out, and to talk with
your physician and even to pressthe physician sometimes if they
just easily write thoseprescriptions and saying, well,
(28:28):
isn't there some research?
You know what about more recentresearch and things?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yes, and that's very reasonable.
That's not being a troublemaker.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Right and to be your own health advocate or as a
faith leader, sometimes for usto be a health advocate for
somebody in our faith community.
So thank you, Dr Sykes.
We're going to do anotherepisode on helping people have
(28:58):
better sleep habits and thingsthat we can do naturally without
the pill.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Wonderful.
I feel so glad to get thisinformation out, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And so for people who are watching and listening,
please stick around or look forthe second part of this or the
first part, depending upon whichone you see first of this.
So, to everybody who's tuningin, god's peace and God's
blessings, and see you next time.
(29:29):
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry, life, mindset and a
whole lot more, go towwwtiltedhalohelpcom, where I've
(29:55):
got a resource guide and otherresources waiting for you, and
be sure to say hi to me,kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
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