July 7, 2025 • 39 mins
Gratitude transforms everything—yet in our demanding, rights-focused world, it's becoming increasingly rare. In this thought-provoking episode, we explore Jesus' Parable of the Money Lenders from Luke 7, discovering a profound link between gratitude and our capacity for love.
The parable seems deceptively simple: two debtors, one owing 500 denarii (nearly two years' wages) and another owing 50, have their debts completely forgiven. Jesus asks which debtor will love their creditor more. But the context reveals much more—Jesus tells this story while a "sinful woman" weeps at his feet, washing them with her tears and expensive perfume, while his Pharisee host silently judges both the woman and Jesus for allowing her touch.
Through this powerful narrative, we uncover life-changing truths: those who recognize how much they've been forgiven naturally express more gratitude and love. The woman demonstrated extravagant love precisely because she understood her great need, while the "respectable" Pharisee couldn't even offer basic hospitality.
This episode will challenge you to examine yourself honestly: Are we creditors demanding repayment or debtors grateful for forgiveness? Do we recognize our own need for grace? I share a personal story of being unexpectedly forced out of a ministry position and how choosing gratitude—initially finding just one thing to be thankful for—gradually transformed my perspective and freed me to forgive.
The implications reach far beyond religious settings. In a culture where gratitude seems scarce, practicing thankfulness becomes revolutionary. It opens our eyes to see blessings we'd otherwise miss and expands our capacity to love those different from ourselves. Even simple expressions of thanks create ripple effects that can transform relationships and communities.
Join me in exploring how gratitude might be the key missing element in your ministry, relationships, and personal growth. How grateful are you—and how might cultivating thankfulness change everything?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not, and how in the world
to deal with that?
And, men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:45):
Welcome to another edition ofthe Tilted Halo.
I am your host, pastor KathleenPanning, and I'm starting today
kind of a series that isfocusing on a lot of a number of
the parables of Jesus, and whatdo those mean for us today?
(01:10):
Parables are often things thatpeople remember from the Gospels
, even if you're notparticularly religious in these
days and age.
Some of them are very wellknown and others not as well
known.
Very well known and others notas well known.
(01:31):
But what is a parable?
Now, some people see parable askind of a story that Jesus
tells that has one particularmeaning and we have to dig out
that one meaning and there'sonly one right answer to that
and there are different ways ofinterpreting the parables with
that.
But my experience with theparables is that the longer I
(01:53):
live with them the more I seethere.
It become kind of sometimes aprism that we can look through
life with, sometimes often lookat ourselves with in these
wonderful, wonderful storiesthat Jesus told.
(02:14):
But you know, many people havenice, warm fuzzies about the
parables of Jesus.
But the more I learn about them, the more I realize that for
many people who actually heardthem when Jesus spoke them, it
was not always such a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling.
They are very challenging inmany respects and so that's one
(02:40):
of the things to look for inthese parables what's the
challenge to us today in thesestories and one person has
described a parable as a veryhuman story and Jesus took the
normal activities of life as heknew it in first century
(03:03):
Palestine and use them to tell aheavenly story.
So a human story telling ussomething about God, god's love,
a heavenly story in some waymanner, shape or form.
And most of these parables, atleast initially here will be
(03:25):
coming from the Gospel of Luke.
Now there's parables in Matthew, mark and Luke and some of the
parables are in all three ofthose Gospels, some in just
Matthew and Luke and some onlyin Matthew and some only in Luke
.
So that gives us someinteresting things to look at
with that.
But right now I'm looking justat the gospel of Luke and one of
(03:49):
the ones early in the gospel isin the seventh chapter of the
gospel of Luke and it'ssometimes called the parable of
the money lenders.
But that parable is set in acontext All of them are and
sometimes we think about theparable of the money lenders,
but that parable is set in acontext All of them are and
sometimes we think about theparable and forget about the
(04:11):
question or the situation inwhich Jesus told those parables.
And those are critical tounderstanding some of the
meaning and some of theimplications and sometimes some
of the almost a little bit of apunch that's in the parable and
(04:35):
the seventh chapter of Luke'sgospel.
There's a lot of stuff going on.
Jesus has healed a centurionslave.
He has raised from the dead theson of a widow in the city of
Nain.
He has.
Now the followers of John theBaptist have come, at John's
(04:57):
request, to ask Jesus who he is,if he's really the Messiah.
And it's in response to thatpart that we begin then to hear
this next section.
And Jesus tells those disciplesgo back and tell John what you
see and hear about his healings,about his freedom of people,
(05:19):
all of those different kinds ofthings to tell John about that,
of those different kinds ofthings to tell John about that.
And then Jesus accepts theinvitation to have dinner, to
dine with a prominent person insomewhere around Capernaum.
At that time, one of thePharisees actually a Pharise
(05:44):
asked Jesus to come and havedinner with him.
And it's an indication to usthat Jesus, you know, welcomed
all kinds of people and he didnot play favorites to the rich
or to the poor, and so heaccepted this invitation very
(06:05):
graciously.
The name of the Pharisee welearn later is Simon, and Simon
was a very common name at thetime of Jesus.
So this was not the disciples,it was nobody else, it was a
Pharisee named Simon, you know.
And so Jesus goes and has dinner, eats with, and to eat in those
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days people reclined on couchesor benches.
If you were in somebody's house, you didn't sit on a chair like
we do today.
But you ate kind of laying orhalf laying down and so your
head and hands would be at thetable end and feet behind you.
(07:00):
And there were customs abouthow you greeted visitors, how
you greeted guests, what kindsof things were often supplied to
a guest who came to your home,and those things weren't
afforded by Simon the Pharisee.
(07:21):
When Jesus came, the Phariseedid not supply water to wash
Jesus' feet because feet gotvery dusty, wore sandals, the
road was dusty, the area wasdusty, so it was customary to
wash your feet before going intosomebody's house and especially
to offer that to guests to havesome oil to anoint their head.
(07:47):
To greet somebody, sometimeswith a customary kiss, like a
kiss on the cheek, was a verycustomary greeting and these
things didn't necessarily happen.
This was not.
(08:12):
These customary things were notafforded to Jesus for whatever
reason, we don't know.
But there is a woman.
The way the dinners werearranged.
Let me back up here the waythese dinners were arranged.
Let me back up here the waythese dinners were arranged.
It was not at all unusual forpeople from the community to
come into this room where theywere eating.
(08:34):
I don't know all of what theydid in that room but to be there
to hear the conversation.
Be there to hear theconversation perhaps.
(09:03):
Maybe to get a little bit of'smade out of alabaster, which is
a very delicate material.
It was something that in whichonly precious perfumes were kept
because it was an expensiveglass.
You had to very carefully takesomething to bore out the inside
(09:26):
of a piece of alabaster for itto hold something.
And she had some very expensiveperfume in there and she used
it to anoint Jesus' feet.
She was moved and veryoverwhelmed by being there in
the presence with Jesus and wascrying and because of her
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embarrassment for that, she letdown her hair which was never
done except in the privacy ofyour own home and she dried
Jesus' feet because her tearsfell on his feet, and dried his
feet with her hair as a way ofkind of compensating for her
(10:10):
crying and tears getting on herfeet, and then anointed his feet
with this expensive perfume andand there the implication is
that she was not the typicalkind of person who would been in
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this kind of a space in thehome of a Pharisee.
Not exactly welcome there.
Probably or possibly aprostitute, probably or possibly
a prostitute, and so anybodywho looked at her and kind of
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knew who she was, would havebeen looking with a great deal
of judgment about her.
And so Jesus senses the mood inthe room and what's going on,
that he is allowing this womanto touch him, to anoint him,
these kinds of things, and thathe is being seen as a prophet.
And so the question is, howcould a prophet, somebody who's
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supposed to know what's going onand who these people are, how
could a prophet possibly let awoman like that touch him and,
you know, pull down her hair,let her hair down, literally let
her hair down in such agathering?
(11:40):
And so it's in response to thatwhole situation that Jesus
tells a very simple parable, andI'm going to read the text to
you from the New InternationalVersion of the Bible, and it's
in chapter 7, verses 41, throughpart of 42, 43, actually.
(12:06):
And it reads like this Two menowed money to a certain money
lender.
One owed him 500 denarii,another 50.
Neither of them had the moneyto pay him back, so he canceled
the debts of both of them.
Now which of them will love himmore?
(12:27):
That's the basic parable,that's it.
And then Simon replies Isuppose the one who had the
bigger debt canceled.
Jesus' response you have judgedcorrectly.
Jesus said that's the wholeparable and the context in which
(12:52):
it's said.
So what's going on with thisparable?
A couple of things, and yes, Ihave some papers here, so you're
hearing them being rustledaround a little bit.
I have some papers here, soyou're hearing them being
rustled around a little bit.
(13:14):
The parable talks about acreditor or a money lender, kind
of like a banker today, a cashadvance store in our day and age
.
That's the kind of personsituation we need to think about
, situation we need to thinkabout.
A denarius is a Roman coin thatwas equal roughly to the
purchasing power of anagricultural laborer's daily
wage, so a whole day's wage.
(13:38):
And it's a day's wage beforeany taxes or health insurance in
our day and age, before anytaxes or health insurance or
anything else is taken out of it.
So it's your gross income for aday.
50 denarii would have beenequal to about two months salary
(14:01):
because people worked six daysout of the week.
So 50, instead of 48 days,about 50 days salary.
500 denarius is equal to about21 months of salary.
(14:23):
A lot of dough, you know that'sa pretty big amount of money.
Neither creditor, unusual act offorgiving even one of them but
(14:47):
here both of them is not evenmentioned by Jesus, and many
would have thought that thatwould be the focus of what Jesus
was saying.
It's on, however, on thedebtors, that Jesus asks the
question of Simon.
There's the verb which of thesewill love him?
(15:12):
Meaning the creditor, thecreditor after the debt is
forgiven, and so it includes theidea of gratitude in this verb.
It's a love being a way ofexpressing gratitude.
(15:35):
The verb here is a form of thevery precious word in Greek, a
form of agape.
The Greeks have three words todescribe love.
There's the one from which weget brotherly love, like
(16:01):
Philadelphia phylos.
There's one for eros, eroticlove, and then there is agape,
which is the unconditional love,like God's love for us, and so
the word for love that's used inthis parable is a form of the
(16:25):
word agape.
Very important to note thedifference.
Simon's response, I suppose, orI assume it could be stated.
Well, I assume maybe this wasthe person who got forgiven more
(16:45):
, kind of a sense ofindifference.
Yeah, maybe that was the onewho was loved more, was more
grateful.
But Simon could also.
He's a Pharisee, so he was veryacquainted with rabbinic law
and rabbinic ideas of debate,and one of the ideas of debate
(17:09):
would be well, it could havebeen the one who was forgiven
more, but there could be reasonsor conditions for the one who
only owed 50 denarii to be theone who loved more, and so it
could have been.
He was kind of hedging his betsonto which of these two might
really have loved more, and sothe answer could also be that
(17:36):
Simon is aware that he's kind ofcaught.
Simon is aware that he's kindof caught, that he's been caught
as not showing even basiccourtesies and love towards
Jesus as his guest when heshowed up for dinner and
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answering reluctantly, expectingcriticism for his lack of
gratitude that Jesus was thereor lack of recognition of how
much he has been forgiven.
In Jesus' day, a creditor couldbe somebody's boss.
(18:18):
It could be a leading person intown.
There were no organized banksor lending institutions, and the
rules for what to do if someonecouldn't pay a creditor back
were really pretty muchnon-existent.
There are references inscripture to creditors who threw
(18:44):
debtors into jail until theycould pay back, which means
they're not going to be the onespaying back.
It means that their family isgoing to have to find a way to
come up with the money, or workuntil they can pay back what was
owed.
There are also references todebtors being sold into slavery
(19:08):
or indentured servitude fornonpayment of debts.
So a creditor would not justforgive these debts, would not
just forgive these deaths.
So the possibility that thiseven happens for somebody who
owes 50 denarii would be a totalsurprise to the people who were
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hearing Jesus tell this parable, and the focus would be on the
character of the creditor.
That's what everybody wouldassume.
The focus would be on thecharacter of the creditor for
forgiving that kind of a debt,rather than on the response of
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the debtors whose debt is erased.
And so the question that Jesusasks Simon also comes as a
surprise.
It would seem obvious to usthat the one forgiven the most
would be the correct answer, ifyou will.
(20:15):
But again, as I mentioned inrabbinic thought excuse me
dealing with cases of conscienceor right versus wrong, it might
have been argued that bothshould have loved the creditor
equally.
Or the one forgiven less couldhave been the one who was most
(20:35):
grateful for some reason orother.
That would have been atheoretical argument that could
have been given by Simon.
He could have answered that way.
So Jesus' question seems tocall for the answer that Simon
gave, even though a theoreticalargument could be made for a
(21:00):
different answer.
So what about us today?
What does this say to you or tome?
One of the ways that peopleoften deal with parables is to
say okay, who are you, who am Iin this parable, and are you the
(21:22):
creditor to whom other peopleowe things?
Maybe not dollars, but you feelthe people owe you an apology.
Other people owe you somebetter living conditions.
You know, whatever you think,somebody else owes you.
That would make you thecreditor.
Or are you the debtor ofsomebody who is in debt, maybe
(21:47):
dollar-wise?
It's not at all unusual thesedays for us for people to carry
a debt for a mortgage, car loansor leases, credit card debt and
not paying all of the incometaxes.
It can be all kinds ofdifferent things to be in debt
(22:08):
too.
So are you the creditor?
Are you the debtor?
Those are the two maincharacters, one of the debtors,
two main characters in thisstory of the debtors, two main
characters in this story.
If you're the one to whompeople owe money, what would you
(22:32):
be inclined to do when somebodytells you they can't pay?
You just say oh okay, you knowyou're forgiven.
Not usually that's not thetypical response that I hear
from people, that how they wantto have things done.
There's a lot of talk these daysin our country, in our culture,
(22:55):
about reciprocal agreements youtreat me one way, I'll treat
you the same.
You know, if you have policiesand procedures that disrupt my
business, I will do the same toyou.
Or if you treat me nice andscratch my back, I'll scratch
(23:20):
yours, that kind of thing.
But is that?
That's not exactly what Jesusis talking about here?
So you know, what would you doif you were the creditor?
What have you done with peoplewho owe you something, and at
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what level?
You know, if you were toforgive somebody a debt, how
much of a debt would you bewilling to forgive before you
would want to find some way toget that person to pay up?
You know, would you extendterms of a loan longer so that
(24:00):
they could pay?
Would you reduce a payment?
You know what lengths would yougo to to be able to get your
money back, but also maybe tohelp somebody else out?
Those are all good questionsfor us to wrestle with.
So those are all good questionsfor us to wrestle with.
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What do you see as the normalresponse today for people who
cannot pay their debts, whetherit be a financial debt or some
other sort?
What is the response?
In the business world, thereare certainly a lot of debt
collection agencies out there.
So businesses don't like towrite off debts, they like to
collect them.
(24:53):
And you know, if you don't payyour debts, that has an impact
on the credit score, has impacton future employment.
Sometimes it can have all kindsof impacts going on.
What's the response of mostindividuals who, you know, can't
pay their debt?
A lot of worry, usually A lotof anxiety about mounting debt,
(25:19):
a lot of stress.
I even had the experience anumber of years ago, in serving
a congregation, of working witha woman who I have no idea how
significant her debt was, butthe debt caused such huge
depression for her that shebecame suicidal.
(25:40):
She really became suicidal atthe thought of having all this
debt.
And there are people for whomdebt is such a big no-no that
they cannot fathom living andbeing allowed to live with that
kind of debt, living and beingallowed to live with that kind
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of debt.
If you heard about a business oran individual forgiving debts
of the magnitude mentioned inthis parable.
What would you think about thatcreditor?
Would you think, oh, I'm goingto go borrow from that person,
they'll forgive me.
Or would you think thatperson's really pretty stupid?
(26:29):
You know they don't have muchof a good business sense on
their head to do something likethat.
You know, what would you bethinking about that creditor?
Certainly you might think, well, they're not going to stay in
business very long if they keepdoing that kind of thing.
You know, or he or she musthave money to burn.
(26:52):
You know, to forgive debts likethat.
Maybe we think that they'reultra-rich, multiple billion
billionaires, but you know, wewouldn't know necessarily.
What would you think about aperson like that?
Have you ever felt that there'sa debt that you can't pay and
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have been forgiven for it?
That's a pretty tough question,you know.
Is there something that youhave done or said to someone
that has been a debt of hurt,hurt feelings, hurt relationship
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, financially, perhaps a debt ofbehavior?
Been involved in an accidentthat was your fault and created
injury, physical injury, tosomeone?
You know how?
Have you?
Have you ever felt that thereis a debt, something that you
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owe to someone that you willnever be able to repay and then
have been forgiven for it.
How did that feel?
What happens inside?
If that is true for you?
What would you imaginehappening If that hasn't
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happened but you would love forit to happen?
Would it be like, oh, now I cango out and live life and do
more of the same?
I don't know.
Or would it be such a bigrelief that it would change your
outlook on life?
What's the connection here?
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It's kind of the heart of thisquestion, the heart of this
story.
What's the connection betweenlove and gratitude?
And that gets at a lot ofthings in our world today, lot
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of things in our world today.
I have a book coming out soon,at the beginning of June of 2025
.
And in there I tell my story,and part of my story is about
the power of gratitude.
I was serving a congregationand one of four associate
pastors so there were fivefull-time pastors and two
(29:41):
part-time retired pastors onstaff and the new senior pastor
came on the staff and after anumber of months, he came to me
one day and said I could choose.
I could choose to either resignor be fired.
In other words, he didn't wantme there and he didn't think I
(30:02):
fit with whatever he wanted fora staff and no matter what I
wanted, I was leaving.
That was the gist of what hewas saying.
That was not my plan, you know,long-range plan.
I had thought I'd be at thatcongregation for many, many more
(30:23):
years but I was leaving and Iwas devastated.
But it was learning about thepower of gratitude and looking
at that situation.
And it took me time.
Believe me, this was notsomething that was quick or easy
(30:44):
, but it took looking at thatsituation and saying, is there
anything here I can be gratefulfor?
At that situation and saying,is there anything here I can be
grateful for?
And it took me.
When I first started askingthat question, it took me
several days before I found onething, just one, that I could be
(31:06):
grateful for.
And then I found a second thingand a third.
And the more I looked, the moreI found to be grateful for.
There was nobody outside of meto forgive me for something, at
(31:29):
least not in my thinking ofthings.
But it was a matter of meforgiving this senior pastor for
the way he was looking at who Iwas and what he was doing.
But it was still my feeling ofgratitude that allowed me and
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freed me to love and to forgive.
So that's kind of another sideto this thing that gratitude
frees us to love, love.
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And if there's something that wereally feel indebted, for that
we have owed somebody an apologyand they have forgiven us for
something in the past, or ifthere is a financial debt, is a
financial debt.
You know, whatever kind of debtyou might call it.
If somebody forgives us forthat, there's a whole lot of
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reasons to be grateful, a wholelot of them.
But if we think, you know well,you know that's nothing, you
know, why should I worry aboutthat?
That's no big deal.
But the more we think that, theless grateful we are.
(33:00):
And when we're not grateful, weactually don't see what we have
been forgiven.
We don't see the love and thegrace of God for us, or from
other people for that matter.
(33:23):
Gratitude opens our eyes to seeso much more.
It opens our hearts to so muchmore.
So what's the level ofgratitude you see in yourself?
Are you?
Would you describe yourself asa grateful person?
I don't know what would agrateful person be like, and is
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that you?
What is the gratitude level ofthe average person you see in
our culture today, in yourfamily, in your faith community?
If you're a member of a faithcommunity, if you're a faith
leader, what's the average levelof gratitude you see in the
(34:12):
members in your congregation oryour community?
What's happening to gratitude inour culture?
There's so much pressure ofpeople thinking you've got to
see it my way or you're wrong,whatever that way is, and that's
on all sides of the issue, andthat doesn't leave much room for
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gratitude.
It doesn't leave much room forcaring about other people who
are different from us, or seeingeven how we impact others,
perhaps in negative ways.
Love and gratitude go together.
(35:01):
I learned that years ago.
It's a lesson I have to keeplearning over and over and over,
in many ways, in many differentcircumstances, but it's a
powerful lesson and gratitude soopens our eyes and our hearts
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and our minds to see ourselves,other people, the whole world
differently ourselves, otherpeople, the whole world
differently.
And it opens ourselves more tobe able to receive God's love.
And that's what Jesus wassaying to Simon, you know,
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asking him how much he loved,how grateful he is or was, and
what did that mean for the lovehe showed for others.
We have many questions in ourculture in our world today about
do we show and how do we showour love for other people?
Are there people who are notworthy of our love, who we say
no, no, no, no, no, no to you,for whatever reason, and what
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does that do?
When we do not show our love tothem, what does that say about
our gratitude for the love thathas been shown to us, maybe not
by those folks, but by otherpeople and by God Gratitude.
The question in this parable ofthe money lender is how
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grateful are you and what's thepower of gratitude to give us
life and to create more positiverelationships in our own life,
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in our community, in the wholeworld?
So that's what I'd like you tothink about today how grateful
are you?
Because that's the only personyou can have any control over,
for gratitude is me, myself andI, and once we change ourselves,
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that has a ripple effect.
Saying thank you to someone,just a simple thank you to a
clerk in a store, to someone wetalk to on the phone yeah, a
simple thank you.
It's an expression of gratitude, not just perfunctory like yeah
, that's what I'm supposed to do.
Mom and dad told me to be tosay thank you, please, and thank
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you.
Yes, we were taught that, butit has so much more power than
that.
So the question for thisparable for us, for you, for me,
for all of us, is how gratefulare you and what's the
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relationship between gratitudeand love?
Are you forgiven much enough tobe grateful?
I know I am.
So.
God's peace and God's blessings.
Blessings, and come back againfor another show.
So until then, take care.
(38:38):
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry life, mindset and a
whole lot more.
Go to wwwtiltedhalohelpcom,where I've got a resource guide
(39:05):
and other resources waiting foryou, and be sure to say hi to me
, kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
Welcome to the Tilted Halo.
This is a new podcast and it'sfor anybody who's a woman in
ministry.
You might be a pastor likemyself, a bishop, a priest, a
rabbi, music minister, elderchildren's minister whatever
your title is, you're absolutelyin the right place, especially
if you're someone who loves yourministry and you're doing it
(00:24):
well and you're feeling pressureto sometimes be perfect and
deep down inside, you knowyou're not, and how in the world
to deal with that?
And, men, you're absolutelywelcome here too, because this
is about ministry and the samething can happen to you.
So you're all in the rightplace.
Let's get started with the show.
(00:45):
Welcome to another edition ofthe Tilted Halo.
I am your host, pastor KathleenPanning, and I'm starting today
kind of a series that isfocusing on a lot of a number of
the parables of Jesus, and whatdo those mean for us today?
(01:10):
Parables are often things thatpeople remember from the Gospels
, even if you're notparticularly religious in these
days and age.
Some of them are very wellknown and others not as well
known.
Very well known and others notas well known.
(01:31):
But what is a parable?
Now, some people see parable askind of a story that Jesus
tells that has one particularmeaning and we have to dig out
that one meaning and there'sonly one right answer to that
and there are different ways ofinterpreting the parables with
that.
But my experience with theparables is that the longer I
(01:53):
live with them the more I seethere.
It become kind of sometimes aprism that we can look through
life with, sometimes often lookat ourselves with in these
wonderful, wonderful storiesthat Jesus told.
(02:14):
But you know, many people havenice, warm fuzzies about the
parables of Jesus.
But the more I learn about them, the more I realize that for
many people who actually heardthem when Jesus spoke them, it
was not always such a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling.
They are very challenging inmany respects and so that's one
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of the things to look for inthese parables what's the
challenge to us today in thesestories and one person has
described a parable as a veryhuman story and Jesus took the
normal activities of life as heknew it in first century
(03:03):
Palestine and use them to tell aheavenly story.
So a human story telling ussomething about God, god's love,
a heavenly story in some waymanner, shape or form.
And most of these parables, atleast initially here will be
(03:25):
coming from the Gospel of Luke.
Now there's parables in Matthew, mark and Luke and some of the
parables are in all three ofthose Gospels, some in just
Matthew and Luke and some onlyin Matthew and some only in Luke
.
So that gives us someinteresting things to look at
with that.
But right now I'm looking justat the gospel of Luke and one of
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the ones early in the gospel isin the seventh chapter of the
gospel of Luke and it'ssometimes called the parable of
the money lenders.
But that parable is set in acontext All of them are and
sometimes we think about theparable of the money lenders,
but that parable is set in acontext All of them are and
sometimes we think about theparable and forget about the
(04:11):
question or the situation inwhich Jesus told those parables.
And those are critical tounderstanding some of the
meaning and some of theimplications and sometimes some
of the almost a little bit of apunch that's in the parable and
(04:35):
the seventh chapter of Luke'sgospel.
There's a lot of stuff going on.
Jesus has healed a centurionslave.
He has raised from the dead theson of a widow in the city of
Nain.
He has.
Now the followers of John theBaptist have come, at John's
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request, to ask Jesus who he is,if he's really the Messiah.
And it's in response to thatpart that we begin then to hear
this next section.
And Jesus tells those disciplesgo back and tell John what you
see and hear about his healings,about his freedom of people,
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all of those different kinds ofthings to tell John about that,
of those different kinds ofthings to tell John about that.
And then Jesus accepts theinvitation to have dinner, to
dine with a prominent person insomewhere around Capernaum.
At that time, one of thePharisees actually a Pharise
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asked Jesus to come and havedinner with him.
And it's an indication to usthat Jesus, you know, welcomed
all kinds of people and he didnot play favorites to the rich
or to the poor, and so heaccepted this invitation very
(06:05):
graciously.
The name of the Pharisee welearn later is Simon, and Simon
was a very common name at thetime of Jesus.
So this was not the disciples,it was nobody else, it was a
Pharisee named Simon, you know.
And so Jesus goes and has dinner, eats with, and to eat in those
(06:34):
days people reclined on couchesor benches.
If you were in somebody's house, you didn't sit on a chair like
we do today.
But you ate kind of laying orhalf laying down and so your
head and hands would be at thetable end and feet behind you.
(07:00):
And there were customs abouthow you greeted visitors, how
you greeted guests, what kindsof things were often supplied to
a guest who came to your home,and those things weren't
afforded by Simon the Pharisee.
(07:21):
When Jesus came, the Phariseedid not supply water to wash
Jesus' feet because feet gotvery dusty, wore sandals, the
road was dusty, the area wasdusty, so it was customary to
wash your feet before going intosomebody's house and especially
to offer that to guests to havesome oil to anoint their head.
(07:47):
To greet somebody, sometimeswith a customary kiss, like a
kiss on the cheek, was a verycustomary greeting and these
things didn't necessarily happen.
This was not.
(08:12):
These customary things were notafforded to Jesus for whatever
reason, we don't know.
But there is a woman.
The way the dinners werearranged.
Let me back up here the waythese dinners were arranged.
Let me back up here the waythese dinners were arranged.
It was not at all unusual forpeople from the community to
come into this room where theywere eating.
(08:34):
I don't know all of what theydid in that room but to be there
to hear the conversation.
Be there to hear theconversation perhaps.
(09:03):
Maybe to get a little bit of'smade out of alabaster, which is
a very delicate material.
It was something that in whichonly precious perfumes were kept
because it was an expensiveglass.
You had to very carefully takesomething to bore out the inside
(09:26):
of a piece of alabaster for itto hold something.
And she had some very expensiveperfume in there and she used
it to anoint Jesus' feet.
She was moved and veryoverwhelmed by being there in
the presence with Jesus and wascrying and because of her
(09:47):
embarrassment for that, she letdown her hair which was never
done except in the privacy ofyour own home and she dried
Jesus' feet because her tearsfell on his feet, and dried his
feet with her hair as a way ofkind of compensating for her
(10:10):
crying and tears getting on herfeet, and then anointed his feet
with this expensive perfume andand there the implication is
that she was not the typicalkind of person who would been in
(10:33):
this kind of a space in thehome of a Pharisee.
Not exactly welcome there.
Probably or possibly aprostitute, probably or possibly
a prostitute, and so anybodywho looked at her and kind of
(10:55):
knew who she was, would havebeen looking with a great deal
of judgment about her.
And so Jesus senses the mood inthe room and what's going on,
that he is allowing this womanto touch him, to anoint him,
these kinds of things, and thathe is being seen as a prophet.
And so the question is, howcould a prophet, somebody who's
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supposed to know what's going onand who these people are, how
could a prophet possibly let awoman like that touch him and,
you know, pull down her hair,let her hair down, literally let
her hair down in such agathering?
(11:40):
And so it's in response to thatwhole situation that Jesus
tells a very simple parable, andI'm going to read the text to
you from the New InternationalVersion of the Bible, and it's
in chapter 7, verses 41, throughpart of 42, 43, actually.
(12:06):
And it reads like this Two menowed money to a certain money
lender.
One owed him 500 denarii,another 50.
Neither of them had the moneyto pay him back, so he canceled
the debts of both of them.
Now which of them will love himmore?
(12:27):
That's the basic parable,that's it.
And then Simon replies Isuppose the one who had the
bigger debt canceled.
Jesus' response you have judgedcorrectly.
Jesus said that's the wholeparable and the context in which
(12:52):
it's said.
So what's going on with thisparable?
A couple of things, and yes, Ihave some papers here, so you're
hearing them being rustledaround a little bit.
I have some papers here, soyou're hearing them being
rustled around a little bit.
(13:14):
The parable talks about acreditor or a money lender, kind
of like a banker today, a cashadvance store in our day and age
.
That's the kind of personsituation we need to think about
, situation we need to thinkabout.
A denarius is a Roman coin thatwas equal roughly to the
purchasing power of anagricultural laborer's daily
wage, so a whole day's wage.
(13:38):
And it's a day's wage beforeany taxes or health insurance in
our day and age, before anytaxes or health insurance or
anything else is taken out of it.
So it's your gross income for aday.
50 denarii would have beenequal to about two months salary
(14:01):
because people worked six daysout of the week.
So 50, instead of 48 days,about 50 days salary.
500 denarius is equal to about21 months of salary.
(14:23):
A lot of dough, you know that'sa pretty big amount of money.
Neither creditor, unusual act offorgiving even one of them but
(14:47):
here both of them is not evenmentioned by Jesus, and many
would have thought that thatwould be the focus of what Jesus
was saying.
It's on, however, on thedebtors, that Jesus asks the
question of Simon.
There's the verb which of thesewill love him?
(15:12):
Meaning the creditor, thecreditor after the debt is
forgiven, and so it includes theidea of gratitude in this verb.
It's a love being a way ofexpressing gratitude.
(15:35):
The verb here is a form of thevery precious word in Greek, a
form of agape.
The Greeks have three words todescribe love.
There's the one from which weget brotherly love, like
(16:01):
Philadelphia phylos.
There's one for eros, eroticlove, and then there is agape,
which is the unconditional love,like God's love for us, and so
the word for love that's used inthis parable is a form of the
(16:25):
word agape.
Very important to note thedifference.
Simon's response, I suppose, orI assume it could be stated.
Well, I assume maybe this wasthe person who got forgiven more
(16:45):
, kind of a sense ofindifference.
Yeah, maybe that was the onewho was loved more, was more
grateful.
But Simon could also.
He's a Pharisee, so he was veryacquainted with rabbinic law
and rabbinic ideas of debate,and one of the ideas of debate
(17:09):
would be well, it could havebeen the one who was forgiven
more, but there could be reasonsor conditions for the one who
only owed 50 denarii to be theone who loved more, and so it
could have been.
He was kind of hedging his betsonto which of these two might
really have loved more, and sothe answer could also be that
(17:36):
Simon is aware that he's kind ofcaught.
Simon is aware that he's kindof caught, that he's been caught
as not showing even basiccourtesies and love towards
Jesus as his guest when heshowed up for dinner and
(17:56):
answering reluctantly, expectingcriticism for his lack of
gratitude that Jesus was thereor lack of recognition of how
much he has been forgiven.
In Jesus' day, a creditor couldbe somebody's boss.
(18:18):
It could be a leading person intown.
There were no organized banksor lending institutions, and the
rules for what to do if someonecouldn't pay a creditor back
were really pretty muchnon-existent.
There are references inscripture to creditors who threw
(18:44):
debtors into jail until theycould pay back, which means
they're not going to be the onespaying back.
It means that their family isgoing to have to find a way to
come up with the money, or workuntil they can pay back what was
owed.
There are also references todebtors being sold into slavery
(19:08):
or indentured servitude fornonpayment of debts.
So a creditor would not justforgive these debts, would not
just forgive these deaths.
So the possibility that thiseven happens for somebody who
owes 50 denarii would be a totalsurprise to the people who were
(19:31):
hearing Jesus tell this parable, and the focus would be on the
character of the creditor.
That's what everybody wouldassume.
The focus would be on thecharacter of the creditor for
forgiving that kind of a debt,rather than on the response of
(19:54):
the debtors whose debt is erased.
And so the question that Jesusasks Simon also comes as a
surprise.
It would seem obvious to usthat the one forgiven the most
would be the correct answer, ifyou will.
(20:15):
But again, as I mentioned inrabbinic thought excuse me
dealing with cases of conscienceor right versus wrong, it might
have been argued that bothshould have loved the creditor
equally.
Or the one forgiven less couldhave been the one who was most
(20:35):
grateful for some reason orother.
That would have been atheoretical argument that could
have been given by Simon.
He could have answered that way.
So Jesus' question seems tocall for the answer that Simon
gave, even though a theoreticalargument could be made for a
(21:00):
different answer.
So what about us today?
What does this say to you or tome?
One of the ways that peopleoften deal with parables is to
say okay, who are you, who am Iin this parable, and are you the
(21:22):
creditor to whom other peopleowe things?
Maybe not dollars, but you feelthe people owe you an apology.
Other people owe you somebetter living conditions.
You know, whatever you think,somebody else owes you.
That would make you thecreditor.
Or are you the debtor ofsomebody who is in debt, maybe
(21:47):
dollar-wise?
It's not at all unusual thesedays for us for people to carry
a debt for a mortgage, car loansor leases, credit card debt and
not paying all of the incometaxes.
It can be all kinds ofdifferent things to be in debt
(22:08):
too.
So are you the creditor?
Are you the debtor?
Those are the two maincharacters, one of the debtors,
two main characters in thisstory of the debtors, two main
characters in this story.
If you're the one to whompeople owe money, what would you
(22:32):
be inclined to do when somebodytells you they can't pay?
You just say oh okay, you knowyou're forgiven.
Not usually that's not thetypical response that I hear
from people, that how they wantto have things done.
There's a lot of talk these daysin our country, in our culture,
(22:55):
about reciprocal agreements youtreat me one way, I'll treat
you the same.
You know, if you have policiesand procedures that disrupt my
business, I will do the same toyou.
Or if you treat me nice andscratch my back, I'll scratch
(23:20):
yours, that kind of thing.
But is that?
That's not exactly what Jesusis talking about here?
So you know, what would you doif you were the creditor?
What have you done with peoplewho owe you something, and at
(23:40):
what level?
You know, if you were toforgive somebody a debt, how
much of a debt would you bewilling to forgive before you
would want to find some way toget that person to pay up?
You know, would you extendterms of a loan longer so that
(24:00):
they could pay?
Would you reduce a payment?
You know what lengths would yougo to to be able to get your
money back, but also maybe tohelp somebody else out?
Those are all good questionsfor us to wrestle with.
So those are all good questionsfor us to wrestle with.
(24:33):
What do you see as the normalresponse today for people who
cannot pay their debts, whetherit be a financial debt or some
other sort?
What is the response?
In the business world, thereare certainly a lot of debt
collection agencies out there.
So businesses don't like towrite off debts, they like to
collect them.
(24:53):
And you know, if you don't payyour debts, that has an impact
on the credit score, has impacton future employment.
Sometimes it can have all kindsof impacts going on.
What's the response of mostindividuals who, you know, can't
pay their debt?
A lot of worry, usually A lotof anxiety about mounting debt,
(25:19):
a lot of stress.
I even had the experience anumber of years ago, in serving
a congregation, of working witha woman who I have no idea how
significant her debt was, butthe debt caused such huge
depression for her that shebecame suicidal.
(25:40):
She really became suicidal atthe thought of having all this
debt.
And there are people for whomdebt is such a big no-no that
they cannot fathom living andbeing allowed to live with that
kind of debt, living and beingallowed to live with that kind
(26:08):
of debt.
If you heard about a business oran individual forgiving debts
of the magnitude mentioned inthis parable.
What would you think about thatcreditor?
Would you think, oh, I'm goingto go borrow from that person,
they'll forgive me.
Or would you think thatperson's really pretty stupid?
(26:29):
You know they don't have muchof a good business sense on
their head to do something likethat.
You know, what would you bethinking about that creditor?
Certainly you might think, well, they're not going to stay in
business very long if they keepdoing that kind of thing.
You know, or he or she musthave money to burn.
(26:52):
You know, to forgive debts likethat.
Maybe we think that they'reultra-rich, multiple billion
billionaires, but you know, wewouldn't know necessarily.
What would you think about aperson like that?
Have you ever felt that there'sa debt that you can't pay and
(27:14):
have been forgiven for it?
That's a pretty tough question,you know.
Is there something that youhave done or said to someone
that has been a debt of hurt,hurt feelings, hurt relationship
(27:36):
, financially, perhaps a debt ofbehavior?
Been involved in an accidentthat was your fault and created
injury, physical injury, tosomeone?
You know how?
Have you?
Have you ever felt that thereis a debt, something that you
(27:59):
owe to someone that you willnever be able to repay and then
have been forgiven for it.
How did that feel?
What happens inside?
If that is true for you?
What would you imaginehappening If that hasn't
(28:25):
happened but you would love forit to happen?
Would it be like, oh, now I cango out and live life and do
more of the same?
I don't know.
Or would it be such a bigrelief that it would change your
outlook on life?
What's the connection here?
(28:52):
It's kind of the heart of thisquestion, the heart of this
story.
What's the connection betweenlove and gratitude?
And that gets at a lot ofthings in our world today, lot
(29:18):
of things in our world today.
I have a book coming out soon,at the beginning of June of 2025
.
And in there I tell my story,and part of my story is about
the power of gratitude.
I was serving a congregationand one of four associate
pastors so there were fivefull-time pastors and two
(29:41):
part-time retired pastors onstaff and the new senior pastor
came on the staff and after anumber of months, he came to me
one day and said I could choose.
I could choose to either resignor be fired.
In other words, he didn't wantme there and he didn't think I
(30:02):
fit with whatever he wanted fora staff and no matter what I
wanted, I was leaving.
That was the gist of what hewas saying.
That was not my plan, you know,long-range plan.
I had thought I'd be at thatcongregation for many, many more
(30:23):
years but I was leaving and Iwas devastated.
But it was learning about thepower of gratitude and looking
at that situation.
And it took me time.
Believe me, this was notsomething that was quick or easy
(30:44):
, but it took looking at thatsituation and saying, is there
anything here I can be gratefulfor?
At that situation and saying,is there anything here I can be
grateful for?
And it took me.
When I first started askingthat question, it took me
several days before I found onething, just one, that I could be
(31:06):
grateful for.
And then I found a second thingand a third.
And the more I looked, the moreI found to be grateful for.
There was nobody outside of meto forgive me for something, at
(31:29):
least not in my thinking ofthings.
But it was a matter of meforgiving this senior pastor for
the way he was looking at who Iwas and what he was doing.
But it was still my feeling ofgratitude that allowed me and
(31:51):
freed me to love and to forgive.
So that's kind of another sideto this thing that gratitude
frees us to love, love.
(32:19):
And if there's something that wereally feel indebted, for that
we have owed somebody an apologyand they have forgiven us for
something in the past, or ifthere is a financial debt, is a
financial debt.
You know, whatever kind of debtyou might call it.
If somebody forgives us forthat, there's a whole lot of
(32:39):
reasons to be grateful, a wholelot of them.
But if we think, you know well,you know that's nothing, you
know, why should I worry aboutthat?
That's no big deal.
But the more we think that, theless grateful we are.
(33:00):
And when we're not grateful, weactually don't see what we have
been forgiven.
We don't see the love and thegrace of God for us, or from
other people for that matter.
(33:23):
Gratitude opens our eyes to seeso much more.
It opens our hearts to so muchmore.
So what's the level ofgratitude you see in yourself?
Are you?
Would you describe yourself asa grateful person?
I don't know what would agrateful person be like, and is
(33:50):
that you?
What is the gratitude level ofthe average person you see in
our culture today, in yourfamily, in your faith community?
If you're a member of a faithcommunity, if you're a faith
leader, what's the average levelof gratitude you see in the
(34:12):
members in your congregation oryour community?
What's happening to gratitude inour culture?
There's so much pressure ofpeople thinking you've got to
see it my way or you're wrong,whatever that way is, and that's
on all sides of the issue, andthat doesn't leave much room for
(34:39):
gratitude.
It doesn't leave much room forcaring about other people who
are different from us, or seeingeven how we impact others,
perhaps in negative ways.
Love and gratitude go together.
(35:01):
I learned that years ago.
It's a lesson I have to keeplearning over and over and over,
in many ways, in many differentcircumstances, but it's a
powerful lesson and gratitude soopens our eyes and our hearts
(35:24):
and our minds to see ourselves,other people, the whole world
differently ourselves, otherpeople, the whole world
differently.
And it opens ourselves more tobe able to receive God's love.
And that's what Jesus wassaying to Simon, you know,
(35:49):
asking him how much he loved,how grateful he is or was, and
what did that mean for the lovehe showed for others.
We have many questions in ourculture in our world today about
do we show and how do we showour love for other people?
Are there people who are notworthy of our love, who we say
no, no, no, no, no, no to you,for whatever reason, and what
(36:17):
does that do?
When we do not show our love tothem, what does that say about
our gratitude for the love thathas been shown to us, maybe not
by those folks, but by otherpeople and by God Gratitude.
The question in this parable ofthe money lender is how
(36:45):
grateful are you and what's thepower of gratitude to give us
life and to create more positiverelationships in our own life,
(37:08):
in our community, in the wholeworld?
So that's what I'd like you tothink about today how grateful
are you?
Because that's the only personyou can have any control over,
for gratitude is me, myself andI, and once we change ourselves,
(37:32):
that has a ripple effect.
Saying thank you to someone,just a simple thank you to a
clerk in a store, to someone wetalk to on the phone yeah, a
simple thank you.
It's an expression of gratitude, not just perfunctory like yeah
, that's what I'm supposed to do.
Mom and dad told me to be tosay thank you, please, and thank
(37:56):
you.
Yes, we were taught that, butit has so much more power than
that.
So the question for thisparable for us, for you, for me,
for all of us, is how gratefulare you and what's the
(38:17):
relationship between gratitudeand love?
Are you forgiven much enough tobe grateful?
I know I am.
So.
God's peace and God's blessings.
Blessings, and come back againfor another show.
So until then, take care.
(38:38):
You have been listening toTilted Halo with me, kathleen
Panning.
What did you think about thisepisode?
I'd really like to hear fromyou.
Leave me some comments.
Be sure to like, subscribe andshare this episode and catch
another upcoming episode.
For more conversation onministry life, mindset and a
whole lot more.
Go to wwwtiltedhalohelpcom,where I've got a resource guide
(39:05):
and other resources waiting foryou, and be sure to say hi to me
, kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
See you on the next episode.
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