Don't Feel Qualified? Hear Julie's Amazing Story.

Transforming leadership through faith and vulnerability. Join us in discovering Julie Eesley’s inspiring journey from teacher to Executive Director at King of Kings Lutheran Church. 

• Journey from education to church leadership 
• Importance of embracing one's unique experiences 
• Roles of executive directors in advancing church missions 
• Creating welcoming environments for newcomers 
• Establishing one-on-one meetings for team accountability 
• Power of gratitude in fostering community relationships 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'll just be really honest and frank right at the
top of this.
I experienced a tremendousamount of anxiety when we moved.
I had kind of been strugglingwith it a little bit and I saw
we were attending King of Kingsat the time and I saw a little
post in the bulletin when westill had bulletins right.
I'm saying that there was apart-time kids ministry position

(00:20):
open on the King of Kings staff, a part-time kids ministry
position open on the King ofKings staff and so I applied,
got the job and that started mykind of trajectory into the role
I'm in currently.
And so I just want to encouragepeople who may feel like I'm

(00:42):
not equipped or I don't have theeducation.
I'm not someone who's coming inwith an MBA.
I'm not even coming in assomeone with a college degree in
business at all.
I was a teacher by trade andthen a mom for a long time.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Welcome to the Tim Allman Podcast.
It's a great day to be alive.
I pray man.
I have so much going on rightnow.
There's so much I don't know.
Jesus juice around in therelationships.
The Holy Spirit is doing someamazing things and I am juiced
up in Jesus to hang out todaywith my sister in Christ, julie
Easley.
Let me tell you about her.

(01:16):
She's the executive director ofministry at King of Kings
Lutheran Church in Omaha, omaha.
I've been hanging out with alot of Omaha people recently.
Omaha shout out to PeytonManning right, yeah, yeah, let's
go.
I'm a big Broncos fan.
So she's been in her executivedirector role for the last seven
years.
Before that she had somepart-time roles.

(01:37):
But the hope of the conversationtoday is to elevate pastors and
pastors need those that havebeen in the business marketplace
community, those that think ofsystems and structures and
strategies to advance the causeof Christ.
You know, in the non-denomworld we don't necessarily agree
theologically with everythingwith our brothers and sisters

(01:58):
there.
But they have the role ofexecutive pastor and in the
Lutheran Church Missouri Synodwe've got a lot of executive
directors and it's kind ofunfortunate that there isn't
kind of an auxiliary office Iwould say for the need for
executive directors.
That's one of our passion.
Projects kind of on the side,is to recognize pastors coupled

(02:19):
with an executive director, typeof a leader who also
understands theology,understands discipleship, has
been in the life of the church,but then also brings kind of
marketplace.
We'll say first articlerealities, just how things grow
in a healthy way.
We have a lot to learn from oneanother in the church and in

(02:42):
the marketplace today.
So that's where we're going tohead.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Julie.
How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah, great, looking forward to the conversation.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, so likewise, let's just start out with your
ministry story.
Kind of tell us where you werebefore entering into your role,
and then we'll move into howyour role has evolved over the
years at King Kings.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, that sounds great.
And so I just wanted tointroduce myself by saying I was
not a business leader prior totaking on this job.
So I was a first grade teacherwhen I graduated from college.
For a while, then I was astay-at-home mom for a really
long time and then I sort offollowed my husband around from

(03:21):
job to job.
We ended up in Omaha, nebraska.
He's a professor at theuniversity here and I was
homeschooling my children at thetime.
And I'll just be really honestand frank right at the top of
this, I experienced a tremendousamount of anxiety when we moved
.
I had kind of been strugglingwith it a little bit and when we

(03:44):
moved my husband moved out sixweeks ahead of us.
I had the three, our three sons, packed up the entire house,
moved out and kind of crashedand he said you know what, why
don't we put the kids in school?
And you find a small part-timejob and have a different sort of
life than being at home all thetime.
And I saw we were attendingKing of Kings at the time and I

(04:10):
saw a little post in thebulletin when we still had
bulletins, right, I was sayingthat there was a part-time kids
ministry position open on theKing of Kings staff and I would
be assisting our lead pastor inkind of helping put together
like simple materials for forlessons, bible lessons, all of
those kinds of things.

(04:30):
And so I applied, got the joband that started my kind of
trajectory into the role I'm incurrently.
And so I just want to encouragepeople who may feel like I'm
not equipped equipped or I don'thave the education.
I'm not someone who's coming inwith an MBA.
I'm not even coming in assomeone with a college degree in

(04:52):
business at all.
I was a teacher by trade andthen a mom for a long time.
But it's interesting, my, myfather was a principal and then
he became an executive directorof a church and I think
administration was kind of in mygifting and in my blood from
the very beginning and my takinga job at King of Kings was

(05:15):
God's way of kind of unpackingand revealing that gifting to me
.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well, that's so cool.
God takes us from all differentcorners and you just never know
.
It is really a divine adventure.
From just summarizing yourstory, from being anxious about
a move, anxious about yourfuture, you know to your husband
, Shout out to your husband.

(05:42):
What an awesome man of God tosay we just need a different,
let's just try somethingdifferent and let's take a
little bit of a risk and thenjust see what God kind of
unveils.
So going back to like yourearly years, was it pretty
evident Like, wow, I love churchadministration, a lot of my
gifting toward kind of detailsand maybe systems and helping us

(06:03):
strategize.
Was that something that justkind of evolved quickly or over
time?
Just tell a little bit of thatstory.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I think I could see the threads of it all.
Throughout my life I likedbeing in charge of things.
I think I was probably one ofthose little girls that was
described as bossy.
I liked organizing things.
I was a residential leader atcollege, oversaw, you know,
floor of girls in our dorm.
I was the stage manager for alot of productions in theater,

(06:32):
and so I and it's interestingeven when I was a first grade
teacher, I remember walking bythe principal's office and
thinking I think I'd like tohave that job someday.
So I think there were alwaysseeds of that in me.
But but those were all lyingpretty, pretty dormant until I
started at King of Kings.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Cool.
So seven years ago you take onan executive director role.
That's like drinking from afire hose in a ministry.
I mean, you're working at thetime with Mark Zender and and
toward the end of his career,love, love Pastor Mark, really a
strong mentor, kind ofspiritual father for me from
afar for many years.
Amazing, amazing man of God.
So how did that transition go?

(07:12):
Because that's a lot ofresponsibility.
You've been in the world, but,yeah, it kind of up the ante if
you will, in terms ofexpectations, tell that story.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
And so kind of what happened is.
It was sort of a gradual storyfor me.
So I started working in thekids ministry department.
I think Roger Timer was sogracious.
He was my boss and he talked tome a lot about he was willing
to spend time with me and talkwith me about ideas that I had
about ministry.
I just was extremely curiousand interested in everything

(07:44):
that was happening at King ofKings and so I spent a lot of
time talking to him and heencouraged me to take on more of
a leadership role in the kidsministry department, did that
and soon was organizing all ofthat.
I then left for about a year.
I thought you know what?
I think I'd like to make somemore money.
This would be great.
Again, my husband kind of spokeinto my life and said I don't,

(08:07):
I don't think you're going tolove the job that you're taking
on.
I said, ah, not a problem, aslong as I'm making more money,
I'm going to be happy.
Three months later I was likeI'm miserable.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
What was that job?
What did you take on for a?

Speaker 1 (08:19):
bit I was overseeing.
I was working for an insurancecompany and I was overseeing
case management for a ton ofdifferent insurance cases.
I'm sorry to insurance workers,but that sounds miserable.
Yeah, it was tough no offense.
So I was.
I came, pastor Mark had said tome if you ever want to return,
we will find a job for you.
And so I came back at the timeand currently we still do have a

(08:43):
counseling center that we werehoping to lift off that was
struggling, and so they kind ofhanded that whole project over
to me and said can you kind ofbring this to life?
After I did that there was somemanagement transition kind of
happening at the top of theorganization and Pastor Mark had
talked to kind of all of ourtop leadership at King of Kings

(09:05):
and said you know, we need tomove someone into, someone new,
into this executive directorrole.
Who do you think would be agood fit for that?
And after he heard from theteam, he offered me the job.
So again, I was coming at thisnot from a place of a tremendous
amount of experience but a lotof interest, and so what I did

(09:25):
is I basically took myself toschool and I read as much and as
deeply as I could aboutmanagement.
I had developed a passion formanagement when I was leading
our children's ministry team,but I knew I really needed to
get more up to speed, justbecause I was and I mean this
not in a derogatory way I wasignorant, so I spent a lot of

(09:50):
time reading and researching andthen, as I stepped into this
role, just viewed it as alearning laboratory and applying
what I learned and just wantedto see how it would work in real
life.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Imagine if we had cohorts of LCMS because we're
both in the LCMS of LCMSpotential and current executive
directors who are workingtogether.
Our executive director has togo outside of our church body,
but the LCMS is a unique culture.
I could see that A couple,three cohorts of five to 10
leaders who have paid the dumbtax and just want to bring other

(10:23):
people alongside.
Here's some great books.
We're just going to gettogether once a month, talk
about pray for what's going onin our unique ministries and do
a book study to keep layering on, because it's never.
As the world changes, assystems change, as the way we
engage online and in-person kindof evolves for the ministry,
it's never set it and forget it.

(10:44):
You're constantly building andwhat got you here is not going
to take you there.
So it requires a ample amountof humility as you go on this
kind of management journey.
Say more there, julie.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I would have loved that.
I found it to be kind of alonely experience.
In a lot of ways it was justlike figure this out.
I didn't know anyone in theLCMS circles who was in my role
and I didn't know any women inthat role at all.
Right, so for me it was justkind of forging ahead and

(11:17):
through my reading I felt like Iwas learning a lot.
My team was incrediblysupportive.
I think that's one thing I wantto really do here is just shout
out my team because they wereready for change and when I said
this is something that I'd liketo pilot or something that I'd
like to try, they were likewe've got you and kind of came
around, came around me and madethose things possible.

(11:38):
But I think those kinds ofcohorts would be absolutely
powerful.
Why not learn from someonewho's gone ahead?
I think just the confidence ofknowing you know there are going
to be challenges but you'regoing to be able to overcome
those that encouragement wouldhave been so profound for me.
So, boy, I'd love to seesomething like that Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, let's do it, julie, you and Jack, my
executive, you guys should justget together, get on a meeting
and let's form this.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
I don't know what it's called or whatever.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
But you guys should, you can, you can be the change
we want to see.
So let's, let's go back, likeearly on what were the tests
that you started to run and thenwe'll move into more of your
day to day?
Now I do want to hear that.
But what were some of thosetests?
The build measure, learn tests,that, if you can put yourself
six, seven years ago that yourteam said, yeah, well, we'll try
that.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
What were some of?

Speaker 2 (12:25):
those Can you give us examples.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
I think probably and right, this is going to sound
like basic for some of thepeople who are listening, but we
had no regular systems ofone-on-one meetings at all
across the board.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
You mean staff?
Yes, staff meeting togetherReally.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Well, we maybe would have a general staff meeting
happening occasionally, but whatI put into place was every
manager was going to be meetingweekly with the people that they
were overseeing.
That was not happening at Kingof Kings at all, and it was
leading right.
It was leading to a lot ofchaos, and so, again, this is

(13:08):
not rocket science, but justputting together those systems
of accountability.
Talking through my expectationsfor what those meetings would
look like, I think that was kindof a first and basic thing that
we were doing.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Let's pause there.
So what do?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's just put a pin in that.
What do you?
What were your expectationscurrently, your expectations for
those one-on-one meetings?
What did you standardize my?

Speaker 1 (13:29):
expectations were especially at the beginning,
because I wanted things to getmuch tighter is I was expecting
each manager to meet an hour aweek with their direct report.
It was going to be hey, let'sspend time at the beginning.
Well, it was going to be hey,let's spend time at the
beginning.
Well, sort of opening withprayer.
Then I want you to talkpersonally with your direct

(13:51):
report.
How are they doing spiritually?
How are they doing?
How are they developing theirrelationship with the Lord?
What's going on with theirfamily, all of those sorts of
things.
Then I'm asking them to bring metheir agenda of what's going on
in their week, what's blocking,what's hurting, what's stopping
, what's going amazingly well,what their hopes are for the

(14:11):
week, what they're lookingforward to, what their big
projects are, all of that.
So that's going to take up agood chunk of the meeting.
Probably, like I would say,probably that personal time,
maybe 15 minutes, then a half anhour of what you're working on
and then maybe 15 minutes of theagenda that I'm bringing.
And a lot of times I would findthere was overlap between what

(14:32):
they were bringing and what Iwas concerned about, but it's
helping me to stay on the samepage as well.
So I was meeting with all ofour kind of upper tier
leadership.
So I'm not expecting I'm notexpecting my people to do
anything that I'm not willing todo myself, and so I'm.
At the time I was probably Iprobably had eight or nine
direct reports that I wasmeeting with hourly every week.

(14:58):
Things were profoundlydisorganized and dysfunctional
when I started, and so I knewthat we would need intensive
care at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
And as time has gone, on.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
As time has gone on, those meetings have changed
every other week, but theexpectations are still the same,
so that has remained constant.
Another thing that I oh sorry,yeah well, that's so good.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Did you get that kind of organization from anywhere?
It sounds like death by meetingPat Lencioni's death by meeting
may have shaped some of your.
Did you read some Lencioniearly on?

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Absolutely yes.
Yes, I read all of his stuff.
I mean I.
Another book that made aprofound difference for me is
Radical Candor by Kim Scott.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
No, I love it.
Okay, that book was extremelyhelpful for me in how we manage
people.
So let me what I heard you sayin your meetings.
For those of you, if you're notmeeting one-on-one, with your
direct reports every single weekon the calendar, what are we

(16:06):
doing?
Like that has to be thestarting point.
So it seems basic.
But if you're not meeting,building trust, hearing.
So here's the three questionsfor me, just summarizing what
you say.
And we have the same kind ofexpectation with our direct
reports how are you personally,spiritually, family, et cetera?
How are your goals coming along?
What are your goals, current,et cetera?
Some longer range, some shorterterm?

(16:27):
So let me into your world.
And then how can I help?

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Here's my agenda.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
I want to partner with you.
So it's really those threequestions.
Shout out to Michael Lechokampback in the day.
I'm a young leader, 28 yearsold.
He says, Tim, those threequestions, that's it.
That's an hour every singleweek.
Trust is built off, they go.
It doesn't feel like you'remicromanaging anything like that
, but you care and you want tosupport, you want to move down
roadblocks that are in the waytoward whatever it is.

(16:52):
And yeah, that's just a bestpractice.
If you're not meeting weeklyhaving those three kind of
focuses in your meetings, let'sjust start that.
That's a great, great next step.
So, all right, we've hung.
We've hung out there for aminute.
Now the next kind of strategicchange that you made, Julie.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Another thing that I did is I right?
I had been reading deeply andwidely of all of these
management books, but I realizedfirst of all that there were,
there were many, many.
Probably everybody on my teamwas not doing the same thing,
right.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Nobody else really has the time or the inclination.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Some people are highly interested in management
and other people not so much.
But I wanted to make sure thateverybody who was managing
someone on our team was goingthrough a short course that I
developed called ManagementMatters, probably a 16, 17 week

(17:49):
course.
That sort of distilled down allof my management learnings into
the things that I felt would bemost helpful and most critical
for my team.
And every other week, just fora half an hour, I would walk
them through a managementprinciple.
I would talk with them for 15or 20 minutes and then leave
about 10 minutes for them todiscuss it together where they

(18:10):
were seeing that happen.
Here's what made the differenceA, they were learning how to be
better managers, but then alsowe were creating a shared
vocabulary around management, soI could say a phrase and they
would understand.
Oh, so I would say look, thisis not a root canal conversation
, this is a brushing your teethconversation, and they would
know that meant don't save upall your criticism for an hour
and a half like deep dive withsomeone.
If you see someone getting offtrack, just have a five minute

(18:34):
conversation to kind of pushthem gently back into the spot
where you want them to be soright.
There was a lot of thatshorthand that we developed
together, which was so a way ofreally bringing our team
together, and it made a hugedifference.
So everybody who was leadingwas getting this management

(18:55):
training.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
That was huge.
I am so juiced up right nowLike that is next level
leadership Meet once a week orevery other week and discuss.
You can consolidate your bestlearnings.
I love that strategy.
That's great.
We have a every week gatheringof our executive director
leaders, so all of ourdevelopmental leaders there's
about 15 people in the roomchurch and school, multi-campus,

(19:18):
et cetera, and we spend half ofthe time talking theology.
It's a little bit deeper.
There's no one right way.
Yours is 30 minutes, ours iscloser to an hour and a half.
Some team, you could probablytighten that up to an hour but
it's okay, we get togetherbecause there's some
collegiality and care and prayerand those types of things.
We do a BLESS rhythm.
So whoever you BLESS, listen to.

(19:39):
It's a whole acronym eat, eatand with et cetera, as we're
deepening our roots in ourcommunity, out in the wider
community, and then we spendtime in theology and some sort
of a management book.
Resiliency training is kind ofwhat we're walking through right
now.
There's a lot of trauma in ourworld and so how do we become
more adept at walking withpeople going through extremely

(20:00):
painful situations?
And it just kind of evolvesover the life of.
But the biggest thing is, it'sall about relationship.
I see you, I know you, I carefor you, and then when the
difficult cause I hear youtalking about difficult
conversations.
It's not.
I'm just going to stew aboutthis until I get to see Julie
one week from now.
It's no, no, no, I have rapportwith Julie.
Julie comes to me.
I trust Julie she's going tohave the five minute little

(20:20):
course correct.
It's a little course correct.
What I see the biggeststruggles is you let this thing
happen.
This thing, it's not that big adeal.
I don't need to address it andit's just like burr in your
saddle right.
Let's go Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yes, a hundred percent.
Address the small things, right,right, and so one of the things
probably when we started thisleadership course together I was
I talked to them a lot aboutthe principles from Kim Scott's
book Radical Candor, and so whatshe talks about is kind of that
nexus between caring personallyand challenging directly.

(20:54):
So those one-on-ones that I'mhaving with people are
reinforcing.
I care about you, right, and Itruly do.
These people have become dearto me over the years.
Right, I want to know howthey're doing, but at the same
time, I'm also going to bechallenging directly.
I'm not into micromanagement,but I am into accountability,

(21:17):
and so people just know what toexpect from me, and if there are
issues, we're going to talkabout those and bring them out
in the open.
So we're not right, you canshove things under the rug, but
you're going to keep tripping onthem, no matter how many,
because, because they're stillthere, they don't go away.
And so what I'm really into isbeing brave in conversations,
having them at a frequency sothat, right, the decks are clear

(21:37):
at all times.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, oh, so so powerful?
Why?
What is it about A difficultconversation?
Because I've done a lot ofspeaking, writing on this,
pastors in general.
I don't know if you know this,julie, we love people want
people to like us.
You know we're in front ofpeople, so we're vulnerable,
we're preaching and teaching anddoing those things, but we

(22:01):
don't take feedback that wellPastors can grow in taking
feedback, you know.
Yeah, it's hard for everybody.
So just speak very, verygenerally.
How do we politely shift thechurch culture into a higher
trust, higher challengecommunity, and are there some
principles around difficultconversations that we could

(22:22):
discuss now to just go a littlebit deeper, to take that
practical next step for theleader who struggles with
difficult conversations?

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Right.
And so this is a theme.
This has been a theme of myleadership throughout, and I
think that what I want to shareis that the gospel has
profoundly impacted the way thatI lead.
In my mind right, this is thegospel isn't just a ticket to
heaven.
Mind right, this is the gospelisn't just a ticket to heaven.

(22:51):
The gospel impacts how yourrelationships and how you view
yourself and how you view others, every, every single day.
And so what I've and man, thisis only ripened and matured.
Over the seven years in in thisleadership role.
I realized that the only thingthat I'm bringing to the table
is my transformed life in Christ.
I don't need to prove anythingto anyone anymore because my

(23:15):
righteousness is in Christ andso my willingness to engage in
tough conversations and love.
It's not to right, I'm not init to save face.
I'm not in it to prove a pointor to right.
Be the winner in those kind ofconversations.
As a person who's experiencedChrist's love and wanting to

(23:37):
have reconciliation with someone, that's what's pushing me
forward in those toughconversations.
Right, and kind of entrusting,asking God to lead in those
moments, knowing that he's goingbefore me, but then entrusting
the results to him as well.
So, right, it lowers the stakes.
It's no longer me trying tolook like a perfect person who

(23:58):
has it all together.
It's not me trying to win in acircumstance, it's me coming
there with love.
And my intention in thoseconversations needs to be and I
have to check my heart.
Am I having these toughconversations in love, out of
love, like what's my motivationfor that?
And once I realize or come toterms with the reason I'm doing

(24:23):
this is because I want the bestfor this person.
I want our church not to besuccessful but to be godly and
to be making a godly differencein the world.
That's what gives me courage inthose moments.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yes, Well, it's our identity in Jesus, it's our
baptismal identity that changesabsolutely everything.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yes, it's the most foundational thing.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
I mean it really is and it keeps us from lying to
ourselves, right, yes, yes,because I think a lot of times
leadership I'm going to lie tomyself like this is just going
to go away.
I deceive myself and the truthis not in me.
So I have to recognize I havethis desire to protect, to
control, to manipulate, and Ihave to die to myself and the

(25:07):
new man or woman in Christ hasto be raised up in me and then I
can enter into it, the posturethat I have open hands and kind
of a shrug shoulder like okay,holy Spirit, we're just going to
figure this out together.
But I know I have to be honestwith what I see.
If I'm dishonest or try to evensugarcoat, soften the thing
that I see, I'm not helping thatperson and obviously I'm not

(25:27):
helping advance the kingdom ofGod.
Jesus was the best at this right.
Jesus drew people closer to himthrough hard words of challenge
.
You know he didn't entrust Ilike this.
He didn't entrust himself tomen because he knew what was in
the hearts of men and so heentrusted himself to the Lord.
He was an audience of one.
He was there to please theFather and then he also

(25:48):
developed deep relationship toget behind me.
Satan to Peter, you are therock, your confession is the
rock upon which the church isgoing to advance and the gates
of hell won't stand against it.
So yeah, he was high challenge,high trust and it appears, by
the Spirit's power, that reallyworked well for the early church
in and through struggle.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
So anything more to say there to land the plane.
I think I just want to say if,if, if conflict conversations
make you feel nervous, you'renot alone.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Not alone.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Look I I still right If I'm going into a tough
conversation.
It's not like, oh, I'm superrelaxed.
If you feel nervous, you're notdoing it wrong, right, it
touches the most vulnerableparts of ourselves, right.
And so what I always do when Igo into it, or try to do when
I'm going into a toughconversation, is to remember

(26:40):
that Jesus has gone ahead of meinto this meeting, he's beside
me as I'm talking and he's goingto be working after the meeting
is done, and that just helps meto relax into his presence and
have a conversation that's notas fraught.
So, right, tough conversationsare never easy and they probably

(27:02):
do get to a degree a little biteasier as you learn more about
yourself and trust yourself moreto the Lord.
But if you're thinking, man,this is so hard for me, it's
hard for everybody, so it's okay.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, yeah, right behind me here, julie, that's my
, this is my office, that's mychair.
I could look at that chair andhave PTSD from all the things
that have happened in this.
A hundred percent, you know.
But I've entrusted it all tothe Lord and every single time
God bats a thousand.
Every single time I enter intoa difficult conversation it
produces growth and care andtrust.

(27:37):
Every single time I've rejectedthe difficult conversation for
a certain period of time andI've got better in closing that
gap.
You know, I think sometimes ourteam is kind of shocked with
with me.
I mean, they'll come in and youhear about so-and-so and
talking, you know, and Iobviously recognize I'm in a
triangle and I can't control it.
This person, it's in their,their wheelhouse and and I'll

(28:01):
I'll sometimes shockingly go.
I think I think so-and-so isjust right in the other room.
So why don't we just bring themin and we talk about it right
now?
I just wanted to alleviate myanxiety and now we're just like
you know, yeah, anything morethere on strategies to like just
do it quicker, it will rip thebandaid off.
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, so we, we, we do talk about this a lot as a
team, and so here are the.
I'm just going to break downjust a little bit of radical
candor with you for a minute,and so you can read this more in
the book.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
But just picture, there are four quads.
Okay, great.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
So in the one corner there is radical candor, which
is caring personally andchallenging directly, all right.
In the next quad there'sruinous empathy, where you're
not challenging directly, you'rewarm and fuzzy, but you're not
bringing problems to the table,right.
But here's the deal.
You may feel like you're beingkind, but you're not really

(28:59):
doing the person any favorsbecause they're slowly getting
more and more off track, moreand more off.
What kind of your expectationsare as an organization?
They're probably hurtingthemselves.
They're probably hurting theteam, their reputation with the
team, if you don't address itright.
That's what we call ruinousempathy.
Then there's kind of obnoxiousaggression, which is more of the

(29:19):
challenging personally all thetime but not caring personally.
So that's running roughshodover people.
I don't think that's typicallyour challenge in the church.
That's running roughshod overpeople.
I don't think that's typicallyour challenge in the church.
Right, we call that frontstabbing, but that doesn't
happen quite as much.
Now the last one manipulativeinsincerity.

(29:41):
We are awesome at this.
This is when we're neithercaring personally or challenging
directly.
It's like the meeting thathappens after the meeting, when
you're running someone down andyou're not addressing things up
front.
So that's probably that's supertoxic and that's what we're
trying to avoid.
Right, if you're, if you have achallenge with a certain person
and you're not talking to themabout it in love with frankness,

(30:04):
but instead are, you know,talking about it with other
people, triangulating, gossipingRight, that that's bad.
But instead are talking aboutit with other people,
triangulating, gossiping right,that's bad.
And so what I'm trying to do isget everybody into that kind of
radical candor corner wherewe're loving each other well but
challenging well also, and theteam gets better and tighter
because of it.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
So for those of you who have listened to me in our
podcast for some period of time,especially related.
We don't always talk about LCMSculture but I'll make it LCMS
systemic culture statement here.
Because of our passive,aggressive and that does move
into the manipulativeinsincerity, because we've kind
of standardized that tribalismhas increased all the more in

(30:50):
the LCMS.
We've developed caricatures ofone another.
We talk about one another butnot to one another, and I get it
.
The LCMS is the national churchbody.
So many different contexts.
This is hard.
But apart from relationship,the worst type of culture is a
high control, low trust culture.

(31:11):
Yes, and that feels sometimesin some of the debatable
conversations in the LCMS kindof what we have chosen and it's
not the way of Jesus.
Anything more to say there,julie.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, I mean, I think that's really powerful and right
.
I think it's so true that yousee Jesus right.
Jesus is a perfect example ofsomeone who's balancing grace
and truth.
But I think that what we needto do is to imitate.
You know, paul says imitate meas I imitate Christ.
I think, as leaders, it'sincumbent on us to try to lead

(31:42):
with both of those firmly inhand.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Oh man.
Well, that was a fun sectionFor those of you who listen.
I normally send out talkingnotes to my guests and Julie was
so kind she didn't even emailme and say hey, what are we
going to talk about today?
Jesus, trust healthy.
As a staff, as you try tomobilize and equip the saints

(32:12):
for love and good deeds, justget us behind the scenes a
little bit of what King of Kingsis up to right now.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
And so I think one of the things that I want to just
share right off the top is thatI'm incredibly blessed in that I
know many executive directorskind of are overseeing HR and
finance as well.
If I was in charge of finance,our church would sink in about
two and a half days.
That is not my strong suit atall.
So I'm blessed to have someonewho's managing the finance side,

(32:40):
and we also have someone whomanages our facilities in HR.
So, again, if you're jugglingseveral of these hats and you
hear about the things that I'mworking on and doing, understand
that I'm coming from a positionof someone who's got space for
some of these things.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
So you're more of a to use the executive term you're
more of a COO of theorganization, not a CFO.
Some executive directors maywear the CFO and the COO hat,
and that is challenging for sure.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
It is.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
It is yes, and that's it.
Many people don't have both ofthose skill sets, by the way.
Right that experience, etcetera.
So, it's great, but I love thatcaveat, just that word of
blessing to those who are in adifferent context, and hopefully
the church just starts to growas you use your gifts and your
team.
There's a lot of people, Ithink, in our church, julie, who
just want to serve.
They just don't, they haven'tbeen invited to the table to use

(33:37):
their maybe finance or HR giftsas the church continues to grow
.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Absolutely, and that's a huge difference for
people.
I think yes, yes.
So I'm encouraging you.
If you have gifts to share,step forward.
You may think you know I don'tfeel 100% qualified.
Here's the secret Nobody doesright, and God can take us from
one point to much further thanwe could have imagined.
I mean, that's my story, andGod's been so good in my story

(34:01):
through this and he will bethrough yours too.
Okay, so for me, here are myprimary roles.
First of all, I oversee all ofour upper level leadership, and
so for me, I have, I thinkcurrently now, six direct
reports.
All of those direct reportshave large teams below them.

(34:24):
We have a staff of about 35.
And so I'm the primary managerof managers.
I oversee all of our staff.
I also make sure that all ofour big strategic initiatives
are being pushed forward.
I am not personally doing everybit of it, but I am providing

(34:44):
oversight for all of the peoplewho do so once your team grows
enough right.
You're overseeing people whoare overseeing people who are
overseeing people who are kindof doing the nitty gritty, but
making sure that everything that.
So Greg Griffith is the leadpastor at King of Kings and just
making sure that all of theideas and things that he wants

(35:06):
to see moving forward into thefuture, are happening in and
through other people.
So a lot of my days are full ofmeetings.
I also still am continuing todo management training, for I've
just led our next tier ofleaders through it and I'll be
bringing probably our entireteam on within the next year or

(35:30):
two.
I want even if they're notmanaging, I want to prepare them
for management and I also justwant them to get familiar with
that vocabulary.
I also lead our tactical teammeetings.
We're working, we're startingto take on EOS, which is
employee operating system.
It's a way of running meetings.

(35:50):
I lead all of those for an hourand a half on Monday morning
with our leadership team.
I'm sitting in a lot ofmeetings around kind of our big
events and things that we'redoing, just making sure that
everything is tight on a Sundaymorning and then we do a lot of
community outreach, a lot ofevents, making sure that those

(36:11):
are all happening and going well.
I also am on the, although I amnot.
I don't, I just want to assureeverybody I don't preach, but I
am on the teaching team.
I speak into messages and Ilove doing that.
I do some.
I work on Sundays.

(36:32):
I'm in our Next Steps room I ammeeting guests.
I really feel like it'simportant to be on the floor on
a Sunday and see what'shappening.
I lead announcements up front.
I also do a weekly newsletterfor our team.
I think one of the biggest whenyour organization starts
getting bigger.
One of the challenges is thatthings you hear a lot is we

(36:54):
don't know what's going on.
That ameliorates a lot of thatbecause people are hearing
weekly from me.
It's like a part I send outsome encouragement, I share
positive things.
I want this to be anencouraging thing and it's not
super long, right, it's probablyfour or five bullet points
where I'm sharing a quote thathelps makes people think here

(37:17):
are some things that arehappening.
Just I want you to be informedhere.
If there are things that aregetting a little off with our
staff, I'll put in a littleblurb about.
You know something that I'dlike to see change share a verse
, those sorts of things.
That's something that'shappening every week, but mostly
it's just intensive management.
I'm also leading our leadershipteam.

(37:38):
I always lead our managementteam through a book study, so
kind of working them throughthat.
That's kind of upper levelleadership, just so we're diving
deep together as a team.
But yeah, so I would say,overseeing staff and making sure
that really everything that'shappening at King of Kings is
happening well falls to meultimately.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Wow, julie, you're a fantastic leader.
I can see why you're in yourrole, and I know you don't need
me to say that, but I mean youhave been gifted for such a time
as this for the role that youcurrently have, and Pastor Greg
Griffith and everybody there atKing and Kings is so blessed to
have you.
Yeah.
So, let's go into hospitality alittle bit.

(38:21):
I think you guys are working onthat a lot.
We just heard about ourinviteable culture.
We want our campuses whenpeople come on, we want to
notice people, we want to givegifts to people.
There's some kind of bestpractices in this that we're
looking to instill as well.
I think we're.
Probably both of our churchesare moving in this direction.
We're estimating about 30 firsttime folks that let us know

(38:47):
they're with us a week andthat's a lot, and what does that
first impression kind of looklike for them?
So let's talk hospitality awarm, inviting first impression,
Julie.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yes.
So we have a person on our teamwho and she is absolutely
incredible.
I just like to shout her out.
She's grown her team so much.
She really helped us push theball forward.
So what, I'm just going to touchon several things that we're
always trying to do at King ofKings.
We want people's experience,from the moment they drive onto

(39:18):
the campus until they leave, tobe positive.
Some of that involves justclear signage.
So when people are coming in,we've got signs along the drive
and in the parking lot so gladyou're here.
You know all of those kinds ofencouraging messages as they
come in.
Right, Things, that things thatmake a difference.

(39:39):
If you're parking like we havea huge parking lot, if it's beat
up and looks terrible, Right,it's just.
You need to look at everythingthrough fresh eyes.
It's easy.
Right At home, you don't startto not notice things.
It's the same at church.
As people come in, is signageclear?
Do they know where to go?
Do our bathrooms look decent?
Do they smell good?

(39:59):
We just renovated our bathrooms, you know.
Do they?
Is that a welcoming?
Are all of our environmentswelcoming?
So we have a next steps room.
I'm going to talk to you aboutthis just for a minute because
it's kind of cute.
We had a library in the moststrategic spot of our church.

(40:22):
Our church used to be amanufacturing facility, so it's
not your typical church.
When you walk in it's not like,oh wow, this is all laid out so
well.
It's like this massively longcorridor.
It's kind of a long, skinnyworship center.
We've had to renovate a lot ofspaces just to make them kind of
family people friendly.

(40:43):
But all this to say, there wassome great real estate right as
people walked in where we hadour church library and that was
like a sacred cow and we decidedyou know what?
We can't have the library inthe best spot.
We need to turn this into ournext steps space.
And so we made the toughdecision to take away the

(41:04):
library.
It was awful.
People were mad.
Let me say it was awful at thebeginning.
People were furious as I wouldwalk by, they would make mean
comments and I remember textingmy dad, who is an executive
director of a multi-site church,and I sent him this long text
Dad, everybody's mad and I blah,blah, blah.

(41:24):
This is so hard.
And he sent me a four word textback and it said they'll get
over it and it's true that was atough call, but now we have a
sweet next step space that'sright at the front as people are
coming in.
One thing that we've donerecently because that was kind

(41:47):
of our one-stop shop for ifyou're, if you're a guest with
us for the first time, also forour members, if you need to sign
up for something or if you havea question, right.
The room is very inviting andwonderful, but we were finding
still that we weren't getting.
We knew that we had guestscoming, but we they weren't
coming into that space as muchas we wanted them to, and so

(42:10):
it's kind of a big room.
We have lots of wonderfulvolunteers for there, but I
think people found it a littleintimidating.
So what we've done is we've puta little kind of pedestal right
at the front of that room witha sign directly over it saying
first time guests, and we havesomeone who's there.
We have a choice of three gifts.
We for a while we just had onegift.

(42:31):
Three gifts are hitting.
We are getting way more peopleat that little spot that says
guest.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Um, you know, first time guests here's what are your
gifts, and they're great gifts,right it's, and so it's not
chintzy stuff, it's nice stuffthat people like.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
We have a very nice coffee mug.
It's like it got a cork bottom,you know, it's like hefty, it's
got our logo on it.
We have OK.
So we have a coffee mug.
We have a water bottle that'sgreat Like heavy duty Not again,
not, not cheap Really nice.
And then a T-shirt and peoplecan choose, and then what we do
is we have all of those thingsin a little cabinet and then we

(43:13):
have bags and tissue but we'reputting, we take the gift and we
kind of wrap it up.
As we're talking to people, itextends the time that we get to
kind of chat with them, hear alittle bit of their stories.
We're packaging up their gift,they're filling out the connect
card if they haven't done that.
So it kind of just stretchesout the time that we have with

(43:35):
them and we've seen our numbersat that little space just jump.
Good, and I want to give ashout out to Rich Burch who told
us to do that and we were likeall right, well, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
He was totally right, so good.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
So do, you do do they have to give you.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Sorry to get nitty gritty here, but do they have to
give you their contact to get agift?
Nope, no expectation If you'dlike to just get a gift.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
So and we put our kind of warmest, most
emotionally intelligent peoplein our next steps room right,
People who just are hospitable,make people feel welcome.
I would say, as we're kind ofwrapping up their gift and say,
would you mind sharing yourinformation with us?
We're not, you know, we're notgoing to be bombarding you with

(44:18):
info from the church.
I would say, yeah, man, ninetimes out of 10, people will
fill it out.
They want to you know, and ifpeople are coming to that spot,
I think they're looking for aconnection right.
They want to be known.
I'm sure we have lots of peoplewho slip out the side door, and
that's great too.
Or it may take them, you know,several times to kind of get up

(44:42):
the nerve to come to that space.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
So if you want to do a masterclass on this and just
engage with someone you'vementioned, rich Burch,
unseminary not that they'reagainst the seminary, but they
do a lot Rich does a lot of workwith and he'll he'll set up an
hour long conversation with youand your hospitality team and
just you'll be able to tell themwe're doing this right now,
what you're doing, and maybesome strategic kind of next
steps, some of the language thathe invited us to change,
because I'm like are you newhere, first time here?

(45:10):
He kind of said we should tryin our public acknowledgments to
let people know, hey, if you'renew here, rather than first
time, because some people maysay, hey, I've not gone to that
booth because my first time.
I've actually been here three orfour times, but just say if
you're new here and have notgone yet to our new here start
here table.
We got a gift for you thereLove to love to meet you there.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
So absolutely Yep, yep, and we Greg's.
One of Greg's biggest bugaboosis we're not calling people
visitors, they're our guests.
They're our guests, and that'sthe mentality we take into
everything on a Sunday morning,and so we do a lot of volunteer.
Recruitment and training ishuge for us.
And how do we interact withpeople on a Sunday Right?

(45:52):
Because it's not just how doesyour facility look, but it's how
do you feel when you're there.
Are people going out of theirway to welcome you?
Are they providing you withhelp?
At critical Right, we've gotpeople stationed at critical
spots where people might getstuck Right.
Got people stationed atcritical spots where people
might get stuck right.
First, walking in kind of theentryway to our kids ministry,

(46:16):
by the next steps room, near thecoffee area, so anywhere where,
and certainly by our worshipcenter, anywhere where people
might feel some hesitation orlike I don't know what to do
next, we've got someone therewho's been trained and is warm
and welcoming, so good.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Anything else you guys are doing right now
strategically on the topic ofhospitality.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
We certainly have a variety of follow-ups on what we
do.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Let's talk about that .

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Once people give us their information, we're
responding with like okay, andlet me say information, we're
responding with like okay, andlet me say if you, Laura Ray,
who oversees kind of our wholeguest experience, would be able
to speak into this more, shewould be an awesome guest as
well.
So I will say that my knowledgeis, on things that are
happening in the church, LikeI'm deeply involved with the

(47:03):
people that I manage, but likeall of the little processes,
right, I'm a mile wide and aninch deep.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Julie, I can't believe that's the way.
I can't believe that's the wayyou are, because here's the
reality.
I know everything abouteverything that takes place, not
even close Like I couldn't beany more facetious.
There's no possible way.
So.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
I love it.
People are always shocked.
They'll stop me on a Sunday andsay what?
About this I'm like I don'tknow they're like you don't?
Know, Aren't you in charge?
Yes, but someone does.
Anyway, I know that we have likefour or five different touch
points.
When someone comes, they'rereceiving email from us, but
they're also receiving ahandwritten card from with a $5

(47:40):
Starbucks gift card or scootersgift card in it, right?
So this it looks like a letterfrom a friend.
It's not just a, not just aKing of Kings.
It's coming in a little redenvelope.
It's all been hand signed.
I've written so many of theseto people especially.
What we're asking is if anybodyhas interacted with them that
week, that the card comes fromthem, ways that we can identify.

(48:07):
You know a lot of times in thenext steps room who that person
talked to.
The letter is going to comefrom them.
So I have like five letters onmy desk this week and I want to
take the time to do that.
Let me just add another sidething.
I send out tons of thank younotes tons.
I send thank you notes to ourstaff.
But I send thank you notes andI've trained our own staff and

(48:30):
given them thank you notes togive, to send to volunteers
especially volunteers maybe whoare doing some more of that
unseen work, thanking them forwhat they've done, also saying
here's what I appreciate aboutyou specifically, I also ask
them to include, like we havefour values reliant, authentic,

(48:58):
generous and courageous.
In my thank you notes I'll saythis is how I see you exhibiting
this value of King of Kings inthe ways that you serve.
So it's a way of pushing churchvision all the way through the
organization, starting at thetop all the way down.
You know, to someone who's juststarted volunteering with us
and saying I can see this in you, you right, it's so powerful.
But so back to the handwrittennotes make a huge difference

(49:24):
both to volunteers and also tofirst-time guests.
So that's a huge thing I doknow that I probably write.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
just pause on that.
I'm estimating I write 300 plushandwritten cards a year.
Yes, so roughly one a day.
It may not always be like one aday, strategic, but man, the
written word, the power of thepen.
If you're not, if you're notwriting handwritten notes to
your team, like across allspectrums of your team, you're

(49:51):
really missing out a strategic.
Because I've heard I just heardyesterday I was in a meeting
that one of our directors saidyou know, I wrote a letter like
three months ago and I'vewritten dozens since that.
He says it's up on our fridgeand it just kind of encourages
me when I'm in that suite.
I it's amazing.
And here's the thing it's up onour fridge and it just kind of
encourages me when I'm.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Isn't that sweet.
It's amazing.
And here's the thing I don'tknow.
This is how I am.
If someone writes me ameaningful note, I will read it
once.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
I'll read it like 10 times and I'll save it Exactly.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
People love that and I've had our volunteers come up
to me and say that meant so muchto me.
It makes a huge difference.
We had someone who came on ourstaff and said she had come from
another church and she saidI've gotten more notes of
appreciation in the three monthsI've been here than in the 15
years I had at my previouschurch combined.

(50:39):
Wow, yeah, please takeadvantage of that.
It's huge, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
The world's discouraging.
The world's discouraging whenyou need encouragement.
You know if you got a pulse.
You need encouragement and thepower of the Lord.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yes, and if you'll see and they're spending time,
they're giving of their time,Like I'm getting paid to be a
King of Kings.
There are many people who areworking all week and then come
to church and serve because theylove the Lord and they love
people.
I mean it's the least we can doto recognize and say thank you.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
We're just about at time.
So one last point in terms ofhospitality, this has flown,
julia, it's been so much funyeah, so yeah, some final
statements, final words.
This has been great.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
I think I just would okay a couple more leadership
resources that I think wouldmake a huge difference for
people.
I led our team through a bookcalled Managing Leadership
Anxiety by Steve Kuss anabsolute game changer for all of
us, I would say, as leaders,what we need to be aware of and

(51:43):
again, if I could emphasizeanything to anyone through this
is the gospel has a power tochange you as a leader, and
realizing that I don't have tobe the strongest or the smartest
or the most together person,but what I can bring to my
leadership is my vulnerable selfbeing transformed by Christ, is
the most powerful thing thatyou can bring, and when you're

(52:09):
bringing anxiety to the table,it will infect your entire team
and will infect your entirechurch, and so what you need to
do is to really press in tothose areas of vulnerability,
places where you feel insecureabout yourself and your
leadership, and bring those tothe Lord and ask him to really
impress on you how much he lovesyou, how much his righteousness

(52:33):
covers you in everycircumstance and situation, and
it will bring both a confidenceand a humility to your
leadership that will changeenvironments like you can't
believe, and so I would justencourage people to do that
internal work, that the bookManaging Leadership Anxiety

(52:53):
talks a lot about both ourinternal and systemic anxiety
and how the gospel can impactthat.
So please read that.
It'll change your life.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
So good, you had one more.
Did you say, you had one moreresource?
Oh yes, another.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
So I do a lot of so I would say that probably the
Bowen Theory is what it's called.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
It's just kind of a way of yeah, it's family, yeah,
yeah, bowen Family.
I love that.
What's your favorite book?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
I loved Managing Leadership Anxiety.
I mean, steve Cuss is all right, he's a family systems, but
then there's a new book which isreally accessible.
I'm taking our team through now.
That's called True to you andit's all about kind of emotional
systems Differentiation, right?
So how do I remain?

Speaker 2 (53:50):
myself.
Allow you to kind of be you andyet still interact in a
non-anxious way.
Huge, julie, you just gave memore reading.
I have so many books right now.
I got like four or five thatI'm rocking and now I'm like
gosh, I need to.
So for me, I end up cyclingbetween like deep theology, you
could say Lutheran confessions Ilike different biographies of
leaders.
I like philosophy and then theoverlap of that kind of systems

(54:10):
management theory, and thenobviously I got to read the
Bible every day.
Let the Bible read me, there'sjust so many things.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
There's so many books in the world, I know.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Here's another book.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I'd recommend just for you.
Personally, I'm reading througha biography of Martin Luther
King Jr called King Won thePulitzer Prize, written by
Jonathan Eig E-I-G.
It's not dry.
It's really, really incredible.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
I'll take a look.
Well, this has been amazing.
If people want to, so one shoutout you can do.
The Holy Spirit can lead you todo whatever the Holy Spirit
wants you to do, julie.
But if you want to, form thatworking team for executive
directors across the synod.
We at the ULC would love you tohelp think about what that
would look like.
I think we could set up acohort like super easy.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
You and Jack would geek out, it'd be a great time.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (54:58):
I would love to do that.
I've been praying about, likeLord kind of what's next for me
and my leadership, and I thinkthat that would be powerful.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
And also.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
I just want to encourage people.
If there's anyone who wants toreach out to me, feel free.
It's julietkingofkingsorg.
If you're like, hey, I'd liketo get started with something
like this, but I'm not sure,just feel confident.
If you feel like the Lord isleading you and people are
encouraging you in a certainsituation and you're like, ah,
I'm not sure, right.
One of the things as a femalein this role and just taking on

(55:32):
this leadership role withoutmuch experience, what I really
had to press into is, if I feellike God is in this, then I'm
going to trust in his leadingand not feel insecure about it
and know that he's going to giveme what I need in order to get
the job done.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Well, he has and he will continue to.
Julie, I'm better for spendingthe last hour with you.
I had that little heart in thedrop, you know, heart drop
moment more for, like I don'tknow how this conversation is
gonna go, like this is gonna.
Julie and I have only talked,like you know, 30 minutes, but
it's really cool and the HolySpirit's in it and you both love
the Lord and love leadership.

(56:02):
Like the time just flies.
It's a joy to have gotten toknow you better and praying for
you and King of Kings and PastorGreg Griffith and my
accountability partner, zachZender and everything going on
with Red Letter and you guysdoing your multi-site.
We didn't even get intomulti-site work that you guys
are doing video venue, all thatkind of stuff.
There's more we need to talkabout into the future but this

(56:23):
was a great start.
Julie at kingofkingsorg, if youwant to reach out to her,
please like subscribe.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
What?
Oh sorry, and I'll also be atbest practices.
Greg and I are going to do atalk about kind of the dance
between lead pastor andexecutive director.
So if you want to hear more,see me there.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Come to best.
I hope this is out before then.
It may be out right around thatsame time.
We'll see.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
We'll see it's a good day.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Go and make it a great day.
Jesus loves you.
Go on mission, dream big dreamsand, in team, execute those
dreams by the power of theSpirit and His Word.
We'll be back next week withanother episode of the Tim
Allman Podcast.
Peace.
Thanks, julie, thank you.