February 19, 2025 • 56 mins
Josh Dotzler shares a compelling narrative of how purpose transforms lives through community revitalization and leadership development. His experience highlights the importance of addressing systemic issues while fostering local talent for lasting impact.
• Discusses the transition from sports to community service
• Explores the challenges of urban revitalization and systemic inequities
• Highlights the importance of empowering local leaders
• Discusses the impact of faith on community building
• Addresses societal stereotypes of urban communities
• Calls for holistic investment in relationships and leadership development
• Encourages collaboration between churches and organizations for greater impact
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, when the spiritual becomes practical,
(00:02):
it's powerful for those that areexperiencing it, and so we have
to, as leaders, I think,sometimes create practical
runways to get people involved,as we're preaching Jesus, as
we're giving them context.
Man, this is how you can putthat into practice, you know, on
a consistent basis.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to the Tim Allman Podcast.
It's a good day.
Jesus is radically in love withyou and the joy of His Spirit
the love, joy, peace, patience,kindness, the fruit of His
Spirit, I pray, is fueling youfor a life of mission and
ministry to look up and out, tosee the fields are ripened to
the harvest, to notice peopletoday and to grow with humility
(00:42):
and great, great joy.
Today I get the privilege ofhanging out with a brother that
I just met.
Had been referred to him.
We have some ties, deep ties,in Omaha.
I don't know why I'm thinkingPeyton Manning right now, but
Omaha Anyway.
I'm a Denver Broncos fan but Iget to hang out with Josh
Dotzler and let me tell you alittle bit about him.
He's a spiritual leader,justice advocate, communicator
(01:04):
and a CEO of Abide.
I'll let him tell the story ofAbide, a nonprofit mission
focused on revitalizing theinner city of Omaha, one
neighborhood at a time.
He's used his voice on nationaland local level to ignite
change, inspire individuals touse their God-given influence to
seek God-sized impact.
This is going to be a lot offun today.
He also is he's got a past inbasketball.
(01:27):
If you're watching on YouTubeor wherever, he's got a
Creighton jacket on playedbasketball at Creighton Sports
has been a part of his story andthis is going to be great.
He also is.
He has a wife named Jenniferand they have four children Josh
, joseph, juliana and Jada.
So two boys, two girls.
That's pretty sweet.
What are their ages, josh?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So we got our oldest is going to be 15 this month
actually, and then we go 13, 11,and 7.
So the two girls are younger,two boys are older.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Ah well, I love it.
So thanks for generosity oftime.
You feeling good today, manReady for a fun conversation of
growth?
Hey?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
feeling good.
Tim, thanks for having me man,appreciate you just being a part
.
It's crazy just in connectingbefore we went live here, just
hearing some of the connectionsand your time in Nebraska,
concordia, playing some sports,and so it truly is a small world
, but glad to be connected withyou and your entire community
today.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, man.
Well, yeah, the joy is ours.
So let's talk.
Let's talk sports.
I love talking sports, maybetoo much sometimes, people may
say, but I think sports shapesus.
You get on a team, there'sgoing to be trouble, trial,
conflict, adversity,perseverance, et cetera.
It teaches so much to developthe young man or woman of faith,
(02:42):
the character of Christ thatcomes alive in athletics.
So talk about your athleticjourney.
You ended up playing your pointguard at Creighton.
You walked through someadversity.
Tell that story.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, well, I mean, similar to you, sports was a
huge part of my upbringing andI'm actually one of 14 kids and
all of us played basketballgrowing up.
My parents actually met incollege.
My mom's from Washington DCshe's African-American, my dad's
a white guy from small townIowa but they both played
basketball in college and that'skind of how they met.
(03:13):
What college?
It was a small school division,I think three Tarcheo College
in Missouri that like no longerexists.
But they, they met passionateand very competitive people and
so we grew up in a verycompetitive environment.
I'm the fifth child and so I'vegot some older siblings, but
(03:33):
always played sports basketball.
When I was young my parentsstarted our nonprofit but you
know, I thought basketball waskind of my ticket out of the
Omaha area, out of the communitywe grew up in.
So I played high school.
We won a couple of statechampionships in high school.
As a sophomore in high school Iwas recruited by three schools
(03:54):
Creighton was one of them,nebraska and then Kansas back in
the day when Coach Roy Williamswas there, and so I went on a
couple of unofficial visits,ended up committing to Creighton
as a sophomore.
At the time I was the youngestplayer to make a verbal
commitment.
Back then it was cool to commitearly.
Today you try to get as manyoffers as possible, but went to
(04:17):
Creighton as a freshman.
Was actually having a greatfreshman season, was starting
almost every single game You'replaying with freshmen.
Wow, I played with some somereally good players, guys like
anthony toliver, who actuallyplayed in the nba for 14 years,
um, some other guys.
But my freshman year, with sixgames left, I tore my pcl and,
(04:39):
uh, got tripped from behind,fell down, didn't kind of you
know, know the implications ofthat, but would have surgery,
try to come back too soon.
And it was kind of you know,know the implications of that,
but would have surgery, try tocome back too soon.
And it was kind of thebeginning of the end of my
basketball career and it was areally honestly, pivotal season
(05:00):
in my life and God shifting myfocus and him becoming more
central to my life.
But, man, the teams I played on, the relationships I built,
creighton too.
Being in a city like Omahapopulation around a million
Creighton consistently is in thetop 10 of attendance for
basketball games, so we averagedover 15,000 fans a game, played
in front of great crowds,played in the NCAA tournament,
(05:24):
played with great players, andeven to this day, a lot of those
relationships that I've builtat Creighton have supported our
work, have been connected towhat we're doing, and so that
was basketball really helped me,you know, have experiences that
I would have never had before.
Taught me so much, so super,super pivotal in my story.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, and there's probably some grief there too,
right Cause you're a young manand it just doesn't go.
So you learn, you learn togrieve.
And I mean I had the same thing.
You eventually hang it up and Iremember I wasn't hurt or
nothing.
I actually was obeying the callto go on and be a pastor, go to
the seminary and do things likethat, and gave it up at like
22,.
You know, kind of being really,really competitive and you're
(06:03):
like I think I could still dosome stuff for a minute.
You know, I was just startingmy hitting, I was just starting
to kind of come around as a, asa hitter and stuff, and it's
like Nope, god takes away whatcould end up being being an idol
.
Right, athletics coulddefinitely end up being an idol.
I've talked to manyprofessional athletes and that's
where they end up going.
Their whole identity is basedon doing that, that sport,
(06:23):
hearing the applause and itreally, as I look back and I'd
be curious to get your take, itwas a, it was a blessing that
God kind of took that away inthat season.
He's like all right, youlearned, you learned enough,
let's.
Let's move on and uh, andreally get about kingdom
expanding work Anything morethere about the grief of, of
losing that, that idol, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I mean it, it for me it was incredibly challenging to
make that shift, and part of itthrough my injury.
I went through three years ofjust honestly feeling like a
failure on the court and, uh,from hearing booze to you know,
hearing people say, man, we'reready for adults or to
transition.
So from an identity perspective, I mean it took me over five
(07:03):
years before I could go back toa game because of some of the
hurt and pain that I feltthrough that experience.
Similar to you, I tell people,man, it can be a blessing to
start to make that transitionsooner than later in life, when
you start to realize there'slife after sports, there's life
after athletics.
Obviously a lot of greatexperiences and take it as far
(07:26):
as you can, but you know,whether it's with my kids today
siblings that I have I try tohelp them understand, which is
what people try to help us dotoo.
You know, understand there'slife after sports.
But until you go through yourown experience sometimes you
just don't get that, thatrevelation.
So I actually recently wrote abook called Playing on Purpose
(07:47):
and it's for young athletes, tohelp them maximize their
potential on the court but alsostart to grow and develop habits
, mindsets, just this purposefullifestyle that can really
affect and impact the worldaround them, and start to get to
think beyond the basketballcourt.
And so I have a passion to usesports for good but then to help
(08:09):
people understand man.
It's a platform, it's anopportunity for growth and
trying to help people not, youknow, athletes specifically not
wrap their entire identityaround it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
No question, Are you?
Are you connected as a coach?
Are you coaching at all Youngkids.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So I coach my, I'm one of the coaches on my son's
basketball team, and then I'llspeak to some high schools, some
college teams, and just stayconnected to the game that way
yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, so people know I coach high school football.
I was a special teams coachthis last year.
I hadn't been around X's andO's in like 20 years and now I'm
second year into it and, man,it's a kick.
It's just for a season, butcoaching is pretty fun.
So maybe, yeah, leave that dooropen as Joshua and Joseph get a
little older.
To be a part-time coach I foundcommunity outside of my church
(08:53):
leadership role.
That's just been man.
It's been really life-giving.
So, hey, let's talk about theinner city.
Some of our listeners mayberural, maybe suburban.
My first five years of ministrywere in the inner tier suburb
of Denver.
A lot of diversity, a lot ofsocioeconomic diversity.
So how did you develop thatdream for city transformation?
(09:16):
That doesn't just happen.
I think God puts you in acertain context and says, hey,
be faithful with your story andhelp shape the story of this
city.
So tell that story, josh.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, I mean it really started with my parents
and my dad, like I mentionedearlier, white guy from a rural
town, population 300 in Iowa.
And so when you think abouturban city transformation you
don't think about it startingwith a white guy from a rural
town.
But after they got married hewas a chemical engineer out of
college.
They lived in the suburbancontext here in Omaha and he
(09:50):
just felt like God was callinghim to some sort of mission
field.
He didn't know where it was, itwasn't necessarily to the urban
context in Omaha.
If anything, he thought he wasgoing to get called overseas
somewhere and he would become anoverseas missionary.
And you know the way God kindof unfolds stories.
He basically him and my mom,told God we don't want to live
(10:12):
in North Omaha, which was oururban inner city, because of the
crime, the violence, thepoverty.
And you know he didn't want tonecessarily be a pastor.
And God, through the story, hequit his job, sold their house.
They had nowhere to go througha connection.
There was a house that openedup in North Omaha and so they
moved into that house, thinkingit was going to be short term,
(10:33):
and that was in 1989.
And he tells the story in hisbook Out of the Seats Into the
Streets.
After moving into thisneighborhood, they live next to
an individual who is consideredone of the biggest drug dealers
in the community and they livenext to across the street from
another guy where my dad said hesaw more police at that guy's
(10:54):
house in two weeks than he hadever seen police in his entire
life growing up in rural townIowa.
And so he just had all theseexperiences, saw all these
challenges and knew he wassupposed to be a part of the
solution in some way.
And that was really the genesisof our nonprofit Abide.
And in the early years AbideA-B-I-D-E was an acrostic for a
(11:17):
Bible.
In daily experience it wasreally his heart.
My dad and my mom were a partof this large church in our city
and they felt like asChristians you know we shouldn't
just show up on Sunday andworship and learn more about
God's word, but we've got to putour faith in action.
We've got to get out of theseats and into the streets and
(11:39):
really make a difference.
And so he spent a lot of histime in the early years bringing
Christians on missions tripsthrough outreach events to the
inner city context, throwingvacation, bible school events.
Block mean just by virtue ofliving in that neighborhood and
seeing things started to develop, I would say a more holistic
(12:08):
strategy for how to revitalizeand transform an entire
community.
And I'll just say this In 2007,the neighborhood we were living
in, the police actuallyredlined as one of the most
violent neighborhoods in thecity and we had been living
there, our neighbors weremurdered, our house was shot at.
I mean, the stories that mostpeople hear are the stories that
(12:29):
we saw and experienced, whichis why I wanted to leave the
community and loved what myparents were doing but didn't
want to be a part of it, and itwas about 2007.
My dad kind of shifted hisapproach from just kind of
starting a lot of programs toreally kind of this neighborhood
approach that really built onthe power of putting leaders in
(12:51):
communities and in neighborhoods.
We had renovated some homes, wemoved some families into those
homes, my parents had lived inthat neighborhood, we started
throwing community block partiesand events, we had started a
church and about two years laterthe police came back and said
this neighborhood that was onceone of the worst is now one of
(13:12):
the best and whatever you'vedone in this neighborhood, let's
take it to more neighborhoods.
And ultimately, you know, itwas really built again on the
power of presence, we would say.
When the people of God arepresent in places of need and
places of challenge, thepresence of God becomes a
reality and those places startto change.
And so our primary strategy istrying to empower the people of
(13:37):
God in places of need and reallygiving them the tools and
resources to be a part of thattransformation.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Bro, that's amazing.
That sounds like what thechurch should be all about,
right.
Bringing the transformativepresence of the crucified and
risen Jesus in embodied form.
We are the body of Christ, thevoice of Christ, the love of
Christ through our hands andfeet and through our lips, and
communities change.
Let's get into the weeds alittle bit.
(14:06):
Of leadership development wewere talking I'm connected to
the Unite Leadership Collective.
Leadership's a big deal.
When leaders change, the orgchanges, when, when leaders are
raised up indigenously in thatcommunity, they care for that
community.
Whether it's a, whether it's a,this is like hardwired into
humanity, bro, you know, likewhether it's your local church
that you care about, your localcommunity.
Obviously, like I want to dosomething here.
(14:28):
I've been put on planet Earthfor this purpose to bring love
and light to this dark, thedarkness that's all around us,
and people just need folks likeyou and it sounds like your
organization to buy to say I seethis in you, I see leadership
potential in you.
Let's fan that into flame.
Let's fan that into flame.
Let's be as as becausediscipleship is all
apprenticeship, right?
I mean as you're, as I'mfollowing Jesus, you come and
(14:49):
follow me and kind of learn it,and then we're going to do the I
do you watch, I do you help.
That whole continuum there,right?
So is that a little bit of whatit looks like to raise up
leaders, local, to take moreresponsibility toward community
transformation?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
A hundred percent.
You know, when we talk aboutleadership, we a lot of times
first talk about this idea ofpurpose, and you even use the
word discipleship.
And you know my dad's quest tofind his purpose led him to this
community, and purpose is allabout.
You know who God has made me tobe and the impact I'm called to
have in the world.
(15:21):
In communities like North Omaha, the saying is work hard, get
an education and you too canmove out of the ghetto.
And so to become a leader or tomove up in life ultimately
means to move out of thecommunity.
And so when you look at innercity urban communities, there's
a lack of stability, there's alack of consistency, there's a
(15:44):
lack of leadership.
Ultimately and John Perkins,he's the founder of the
philosophy of Christiancommunity development he talks
about this idea.
That, and Bob Lupton, they talkabout this idea If you want to
create a community, remove allof the capable leaders, or if
you want to create an inner city, remove all of the capable
leaders, or if you want tocreate an inner city, remove all
(16:04):
of the capable leaders.
And my dad, as a leader onpurpose, moved into this
community and he did whatleaders do he started to try to
find a solution to thechallenges that he was seeing.
And over the years, what we'veseen is, you know, just like in
our city, there's a gap betweenthe poverty of our city and the
prosperity.
There's a gap between thepoverty of our city and the
(16:27):
prosperity.
There's a leadership gap, andone of the primary reasons
leaders aren't present isbecause of the challenges they
face and the lack of resourcesprovided to help those leaders
thrive and grow and learn.
And so just a very practicalexample my wife and I, we live
in the community that we serve,but for many years I had to go
(16:47):
outside of the community to getaccess to a fitness center where
I could, you know, try to stayin shape.
We have to go outside of thecommunity to be a part of some
sports programs for our son.
We have to go outside of thecommunity to find Christian
education.
And so the community doesn'tprovide the opportunities or
resources for leaders, forindividual families who are
(17:11):
trying to grow and develop andthrive.
They don't provide thoseresources.
Right here in the community weaccess to those resources, and
so part of our job and work isto really build bridges and
break barriers, to try to bridgethe gap between resources
outside of our community andresources in our community.
(17:33):
It's providing holisticdiscipleship for all the
individuals that we're workingwith that ultimately leads to
leadership development.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
What are some of the stereotypes?
Leadership, development, amen.
What are some of thestereotypes?
I'm asking you to get to 30,000feet or so, but stereotypes
about ministry in the urbancenter that you're like.
That's just not true.
And I ask this with a littlebit of context too, because
we're just getting to know oneanother.
I've been a part of a ministrycalled the Table.
I helped start it, meal andworship inclusive of, but not
(18:04):
exclusively for, the working,poor and homeless living in
Denver.
And then we've been connectedto a ministry called La Mesa
similar concept here over adecade now in Central Mesa and
then in Central Tempe, inpartnership with churches that
are more in the urban center.
And some of those stereotypeslike well, they're all addicts
or et cetera, you know they'vejust obviously messed up their
(18:26):
life.
My experience, our experienceat La Mesa, is why does poverty
come?
And then addiction and some ofthe other struggles.
Why does poverty come?
It's a breakdown ofrelationship.
You can say, first with the Godof the universe, but then in
family and in relationship, justthe leaders, the father, the
mother.
That wasn't there, thestability when a kid made a
mistake there's no margin formistakes often in these families
(18:50):
and they end up on the streets,vulnerable and Jesus still has
a mission and purpose that'sunplanned for their life.
But, yeah, I guess thestereotypes that we in the upper
middle class.
It's just not true, man,they're people just like you are
.
They need to eat, they needlove, they need community and
they need that purpose and thechurch.
If the church isn't thereproviding that higher calling,
(19:11):
that higher purpose, man, we'rereally, really missing out, I
think, on what it means to be afollower of Jesus.
So is it?
Yeah, break down some of thosestereotypes?
Is it just an absence ofrelationship Talk types?
Is it just an absence ofrelationship?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Talk there, josh.
Well, I think when I hear yousay relationship, what connects
with me is it is generationaland it's one generation to the
next.
You know, just from what I'veseen being living here full time
for the last 15 years with mywife and family and kids is, you
see, a generation of kidsgrowing up without a support
(19:43):
system.
You know, maybe a single parent, mom and no connection to a
father, or they're growing upwithout a support system.
You know, maybe a single parent, mom and no connection to a
father, or they're growing upmaybe with a level of support
but lack of access to resources.
They don't have theopportunities, whether it's
afterschool, educational,recreational sports.
You know people will ask me,josh, what does it take to to to
(20:04):
help a kid in your community?
What does it take to raise up aleader?
And I always ask them thequestion what does it take to
raise your son or daughter?
Do you know?
Do you know what the averageprice point is in a middle-class
family to raise a child fromzero to 17?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It's like it's a lot.
Is it 500,000?
I don't know.
I've heard different numbers.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
There's probably different numbers.
One of the numbers that I sawthrough research was 350,000, on
average, 350,000.
And so think about, think aboutthat.
That 350,000 goes towardseducation, recreation, childcare
, I mean you, you, healthcare,like you name it.
That's a lot of money, a lot ofresources.
It takes a lot to develop achild, and so in our community,
(20:49):
we can't expect one program, wecan't expect, you know, one
investment to create theseoutcomes that we're looking for.
It takes this holistic.
It takes a lot of money, a lotof resources to see the type of
outcomes that we want.
And so I think so many peoplein our community what happens,
like you're saying, they'regrowing up in these environments
(21:09):
, they're living in crisis mode.
They make one bad decision as aresult of the only thing they
know, the only thing they'veseen, what they naturally
respond to do.
It shifts the trajectory oftheir life forever and before
you know it, you have a wholecommunity of people living in
poverty together, and so ittakes a lot to get out of that.
(21:31):
And so I think we see theoutcomes, but the investment it
takes, same with leadership man.
It takes a lot of resources, ittakes a lot of investment to
develop a leader from ourcommunity because the starting
point is so much farther behindthan somebody maybe who's
growing up or who has relationalequity with other leaders and
(21:53):
grows up in a leadershipenvironment outside of our
community relational equity withother leaders and grows up in a
leadership environment outsideof our community.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
That's just true.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
That's just very, very true so let's go down this
pathway.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Diversity, equity, inclusion I didn't actually
include that in your bio, thoughit is in your bio.
You've been a trainer and thereason I didn't honestly is
because people may even stop,and honestly is because people
may even stop.
They hear that phrase.
It becomes so politicized thatwe have no room for the
conversation around diversity,equity and inclusion.
(22:25):
Now, all cards on the tableface up.
I think that we need to focuson outcomes beyond diversity,
equity.
I think we need to focus oncharacter, the character of
Christ that supersedes thepoliticization that's taken
place with a term like DEI, andright now I mean this is being
(22:46):
recorded on February 3rd 2025.
President Trump is back inoffice and he is setting an
environment where businesses areactively canceling their DEI
efforts and we can debate on howeffective some of those efforts
were in various businesses, etc.
But you've spoken about thisopportunity in your context and
(23:07):
I think it's good to set thefirst 20 minutes of this
conversation.
You train out of your contextand you see inequity in your
context.
Your context and you seeinequity in your context and
when we talk about it's not thesame outcomes because they're
starting in different places.
That's just true and it doesn'tmean so I'm just putting
everything out.
(23:27):
It doesn't mean that merit-basedhard work isn't a thing, right?
Meritocracy is a real thing.
We should still care aboutmerit, right?
That we're not.
I think that's a that's a falsedichotomy, that we think that
diversity, equity, inclusion andthen merit are at odds with one
another.
No, I think they'recomplimentary.
I'd love to get your take onthat, bro.
(23:48):
So thanks for thanks forentertaining that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
No, well, you know there's a lot of things to talk
about and digest in what you'resaying.
I think you know, first andforemost, we can take any word,
term or idea and we can createit and make it into something
that maybe it originally wasn'tintended to be.
I mean, I just think, as you'reusing the language DEI, I think
(24:12):
of the term and language we use, christianity.
I mean, I think of the term andlanguage we use, christianity.
I mean we live today, we livein a post-Christian culture, and
so language like that, you know, can be politicized, taken out
of context DEI.
For me, I can't help but be apart of any conversations about
that, because I'm half black,half white.
My wife is half Mexican, halfThai white.
(24:40):
My wife is half Mexican, halfThai.
My parents grew up and when mydad asked to marry my mom, they
said no because he was white.
And so you know, he started tolearn about some of the
challenges that the blackcommunity faced historically and
that my mom's parents face.
He started to understand thatmy mom's siblings couldn't swim
in the same swimming pool asother white kids in that
community and how my mom was apart of the busing system for
(25:01):
desegregation, and so so much ofthat has been a part of our
story, and what we've learned inthe process is we all have a
lens that we see the worldthrough.
We all have a worldview basedon my experiences of growing up
in the urban inner city context.
There are kids that don't havethe same opportunities as other
(25:24):
kids, and in our city in Omaha,nebraska, which has been
considered one of the mostsegregated cities in the nation
over the years, the blackcommunity and the Hispanic
community are also theimpoverished communities and are
the communities that don't haveas many resources.
And so you look at some ofthose statistics, you look at
(25:47):
the reality of the way ourcity's broken up, you realize
there is, and there has been agap, and Jesus talked about it
all throughout scripture theJews, the Gentiles, the slaves I
mean.
The story of the good Samaritanis a prime example when, when,
when the Jew asked man what ismost important, jesus said to
(26:07):
love your love, lord, your God,with all your heart, mind, soul
and strength.
Love your neighbor as you loveyourself.
And the Bible says he wanted tojustify his answer, and so he
says well, who is my neighbor?
And then we know the story andhow it ends and this idea of
compassion and how compassionled to the action that he took.
And so we would say this whenyou have a personal experience,
(26:30):
when you're proximate to some ofthe challenges, you have a
level of compassion that movesyou to action and says I got to
be a part of the solution.
And I think the opposite is true.
When we're at a distance ofpeople who are different than us
and we don't know their storyand we don't understand where
they come from, it's easy tojudge, it's easy to you know,
(26:51):
share and carry a certainnarrative, but something happens
.
When we get close to people whoare hurting, again we
understand, you know how theygot to where they are.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, geez, 100% true .
And I could, because I live ina suburban context here in
Gilbert Arizona.
Oh, that's our school startingour day right now.
Let me stop that.
Anyway, it is.
It is a challenge.
I talk about La Mesa, it's achallenge.
(27:24):
It's probably we're probably2,500 in our community kind of
thing.
You know, I bet 10% of ourchurch and we always make the
encouragement has experiencedlife and a story connected to La
Mesa or Marina.
There's just something about theother that is just, oh, I pull
back, I'm uncertain, I don'tknow how to engage.
(27:45):
What I say, what we say, isjust go and eat and hear a story
, share your story.
It's as simple as that.
And it does develop thatcompassion that I would say
leads to action.
That's very, very true.
And Jesus crosses everything.
Like you can't look at Jesusand see how he is I'll just use,
because we love right and left,right, right and left.
(28:07):
He is like right down themiddle, crossing every single
boundary to reach Jew, gentile,slave, free, young, old, rich,
poor.
Galatians 3, 28,.
Right, I mean, it's just soamazing.
And this is what was soshocking about the early church.
Like you want us to go there.
You see the apostle Paul's likecall, like he's so frustrated
with his Jewish brothers andsisters because they're the
people of the promise, et cetera, but now he has this call to
(28:29):
cross every single boundary totake the and it did all the way
to Rome at the end of the bookof Acts right.
We often today think we don'tunderstand how cross-cultural
Christ was and then the earlychurch was and how the apostles
actually strategically werespread across the known world,
even to the point of, like,losing their life because they
(28:50):
would say Jesus is Lord ratherthan Caesar is Lord, et cetera.
And it was messy, you know, itwas remarkable.
You just look at the book oflike Corinthians.
Corinthians is remarkably messyand you've got a dude steep
sleeping with a step.
I mean, it's just all sorts ofmess, cross-cultural mess.
And and Paul is writing, I'lllay on this plane Paul is
writing reactively to what iswhat the Holy Spirit is already
(29:11):
doing cross-culturally, carryingthe message of the crucified
and risen Jesus to the world.
And we in the West, I would sayin the majority culture, we
want to control and have a planand strategy and like it's just
not the way, it's circuitous,man, it's gray Ministry and life
is in the gray, and the more werecognize so like I am
(29:35):
fundamentally flawed.
I have been born with sin, andthat sin one of the best
metaphors for sin is man orwoman turned in, like my natural
nature until christ comes andmakes me his own is be turned in
on myself, and so confession issaying that is that is true,
and now I have been crucifiedwith christ, I no longer live.
He lives within, and so now Imove to arms hands wide, open
(29:58):
abundance.
God, where are you at work inthe world?
Because I know you are and Iwant to partner with you.
I want to meet you there and Iwant to meet the people that you
love who don't know your love.
Right, anything more to add tothat, josh?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Well, I just one of the things we talk about is
Christianity first starts withus inviting Jesus into our
hearts.
We we confession, you know,because we are sinners, because
we're turned inward, becausewe're self-focused, we have to
be saved from our sin.
And so it starts when we inviteJesus into our hearts.
But then we would say thesecond part of Christianity is
Jesus wants to invite uh, he, he, he wants to invite us into his
(30:33):
heart and he wants our heartsto break for the things that
break his heart.
He wants our hearts and ourvision to see what he sees the
brokenness in the world, thechallenges in the world.
And so that's why the Bibletalks about, you know, true
religion is caring for thewidows and loving and feeding
the poor.
And so we would just say thistoo not everybody's called to
(30:56):
live in the inner city, urbancontext, not everyone's called
to be an overseas missionary.
But, as Christians, all of usare called to live on purpose,
which means we get to be a partof the solution to our city's
challenges in some way, shape orform, and without getting close
to or proximate to some ofthose challenges you know, in
(31:18):
your context, la Mesa, in ourcontext, north Omaha without
getting close to some of thosechallenges, our heart will never
break for the things that breakthe heart of God.
And Jesus was constantly inproximity to people who had
needs and who had challenges.
And so I think for us, asChristians, the call is that
(31:38):
we've got to get the heart ofGod by getting close to people
who can help us get the heart ofGod.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Amen.
I had no idea that Omaha had along history of segregation.
Yeah, that's a new learning forme.
I live in, you know, phoenix isa young city in comparison to
many of our Midwest cities andthe racial pocket we don't have
(32:07):
as much of that here.
Well, more of a melt spot.
Everybody's just kind of comingtogether.
There may be, you know, somecommunities, but certainly not
like a Chicago which you hearabout the racial segregation way
more in a city like Chicago.
So tell, tell.
I mean, how does a certaincommunity become like this is
where the black community, thisis where the Hispanic community?
(32:28):
It just doesn't in my mind.
Because I know, like racismjust blow.
I'm just going to stop Racismlike blows my mind.
You know what I'm saying.
Like it doesn't.
I understand it.
I was a history major, Iunderstand it historically, but
as a Jesus follower I just don't.
I don't know how we couldpossibly justify it.
So tell the story of segregationin Omaha, Josh.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Well, I think Omaha, again for me, represents cities
across the country and everycity you know to varying degrees
, but ultimately you know.
When the laws were changed,when slavery was no longer a
reality, there were other lawsthat were put in place to keep
certain resources from groups ofpeople, specifically the black
community, and so redlining wasone of those things that
happened in cities across thecountry where there were literal
redlining was one of thosethings that happened in cities
across the country where therewere literal red lines that were
(33:21):
drawn around certain parts ofthe community where the blacks
lived, where they couldn't haveaccess to resources to purchase
homes and to start to createwealth for their families, and
so, like in Omaha, if you lookat where the redlining happened,
that redlining pretty much is apicture of what's termed as the
inner city.
Now, what's interesting is, 10years after redlining happened,
(33:45):
the term inner city becamepopularized by a politician and
the term inner city started todescribe what this part of the
community looked like that hadbeen redlined 10 years earlier.
And so again I realized thiseverybody's not a part of
(34:05):
creating these laws.
Typically, it's a certainselect few, a small majority
that's creating these laws, butit affects a large group of
people.
And so in Omaha, if you look at, one of the things that we show
is a murder map and we have redpins that show all of the
murders, the homicides that havehappened in our city over the
last 35 years.
(34:26):
Over 75% of those homicideshave been in formerly redlined
areas, and so what we say isthose red lines have led to red
dots.
Those red dots representpoverty, those red dots
represent fatherlessness.
I mean, in our city, again,there's this stark picture.
Let's say somebody, a goodfamily, moves to Omaha, nebraska
.
Do they want to move into aneighborhood that's safest or
(35:04):
one that's going to be, you know, in crisis?
Do they want to move into aneighborhood that's going to
have the best school district orthe worst school district?
Do they want to move into aneighborhood that is going to
housing prices are going to beat an all time high?
So, just naturally, whathappens is is we move into
cities and we make decisionsbased on what's best for our
family, which isn't all bad, butthe gap continues to grow and
(35:28):
we, you know, our kids, grow upin these environments that are
very disconnected to thechallenges of other individuals.
Same city, completely differentrealities, and again, every
city has varying degrees of this.
In Omaha it's very stark.
I mean Omaha in 2020, it washighlighted just through
(35:50):
conversations and relationshipsI have.
It was so bad People actuallythink of black and poverty as
one in the same.
It was so bad People actuallythink of black and poverty as
one in the same Because Omahadoesn't have a thriving, diverse
community.
That's outside of kind of theimpoverished context, whereas in
some cities larger cities, eastCoast, west Coast there's a lot
more diversity at a bunch ofdifferent socioeconomic levels I
(36:18):
mean just leadership levels.
In Omaha, it's not the case,and so you had a lot of
Christian pastors and leaderswho literally thought all
minorities lived in poverty, andI think that's the other
misnomer for us.
You talked about what are someof the misperceptions.
Well, in our city and I thinkacross the board, it's changing
a little bit, but you look atsome of the DEI stuff.
(36:40):
We believe that some of the bestand brightest leaders can come
from minority communities.
They're indigenous leaders.
But when you haven't had theopportunities, when you don't
have the relational equity on alarger scale, when you haven't
had the same leadershipopportunities as maybe somebody
who is equal to you, you're notgoing to become the world-class
(37:02):
leader that you could be.
You're not going to lead athriving organization.
I'll just speak to this man as ayoung leader, one of the
challenges I wrestle with.
I've led a church.
In this context, I'm looking atother leaders who I would say,
man, we're very similar andthey've got quadruple the
numbers that we have in terms ofpeople showing up but, more
(37:23):
importantly, finances and and itis hard to build a, a stable,
let alone thriving church in theurban context because the
resources aren't here in theurban context, because the
resources aren't here.
And that causes me, as aminority leader, to question my
capacity, to question myleadership, to question my
(37:44):
ability, instead of alsorecognizing.
Man, there are some realchallenges.
I can tell you this, tim, I'mworking just as hard as anybody
else, man, I'm getting up early,I'm taking care of myself
physically, I've been going toleadership conferences since the
sixth grade.
I'm digesting books, I'm havingyou know what, I'm saying Like,
I'm doing all these things.
(38:05):
But, man, some of thechallenges that I'm facing in my
community are very differentthan some of the challenges in
other communities, and that'snot to say I just want to be
clear about this that's not tosay there are people far from
God all over our city that needto be reached.
But as a leader, when you'rebuilding an organization,
(38:26):
there's just some differentchallenges that you're
overcoming in that urban contextthat's just truth.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
So how is the local church responding to this?
Um cause, I'm connected to Kingof Kings there in Omaha and and
you know those guys and I knowtheir hearts Like I'd, I'd like
to think that a lot of the maybenot inner city churches are
wanting to invest, you know, notjust with people, but resources
, into what you're doing atAbide.
Tell that story, josh.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, I would say one of the only reasons we've been
able to do what we do apart fromGod has been the investment of
other churches and Christians inour city.
One of our values is bettertogether, and that's something
that we really we talk about, welean into, we believe in, and
so over the years, we've beenfortunate.
(39:16):
The church is like King ofKings.
They've done everything fromhelped purchase and renovate
homes that we've turned intolighthouses in our neighborhood.
They've helped invest in campusprograms.
They've invested in leaders.
We've been fortunate tocollaborate with a lot of
churches over the years.
But I will say this Barnastudies show that post 2020,
(39:39):
churches and Christians are lessexcited to get involved in
justice issues in urban context,because you know in my mind,
the challenges that have alsocome with it.
I think, more than ever, withsome of the racial conversations
, even with some of thepolitical stuff around DEI, you
(40:00):
know, things became so politicalthat churches felt like they it
was almost a lose-losesituation whether they were
engaged, not engaged.
Should they speak up, shouldthey not speak up?
And so I also I would say up,should they not speak up?
And so I also I would say foundthat a lot of churches kind of
(40:21):
went neutral for the sake of theconversations that they've been
leading.
And so we have a lot of greatrelationships with a lot of
churches, pastors, leaders whoare doing a lot of great things.
I would say more than ever Irealized some of the challenges
that they're up against asleaders leading congregations.
I'll just share this one story.
I heard John Perkins I mentionedhis name earlier.
(40:44):
He was an African-American.
He is an African-Americanleader who started kind of the
Christian Community DevelopmentAssociation, worked in the inner
cities.
He tells a story of a church, amega church, that he was
working with this pastor and hewas trying to get this mega
church to partner with him, towork in his community.
And this goes back I don't knowif this was the seventies, I
(41:05):
mean this was years ago butultimately, as he was working
with this pastor, this megachurch pastor was having such a
hard time convincing his churchthat they should be engaged in
this inner city predominantlyblack context, this mega pastor
ended up taking his own life.
Oh my, and it just stood out tome in the sense of like I
(41:29):
understand there's realchallenges pastors face when it
comes to meeting the needs oftheir congregation versus
meeting some of the needs of thecity, and I think that's a
tension that a lot of pastorsyou know they live in that
tension and ultimately you leantowards your congregation
because that's the immediatecontext that you're called to.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Wow, you said a lot there.
I'm in a confessionalconservative Lutheran
congregation and I don't knowhow many Lutherans you've hung
out with, but we should be someof the and I don't know if best
is the right word but most opentoward caring for the other.
(42:16):
Because our theology at itsbest is like, filled with
mystery and tension, now and notyet.
Saint and sinner, theinbreaking of the kingdom of God
, here and now, but then thereturn of Christ.
And so the heart of theReformation some 500 years ago
was let's just get back to thebasics, by grace, through faith,
not by works, so that no onecan boast.
Ephesians 2, 8 through 9.
(42:37):
And now we're carrying out asChrist's workmanship, his love.
He's got work for us to do outin the community, not to prove
anything to God he couldn't loveus any more than he does right
now but to live out theinbreaking of the kingdom of God
as we're the hands and feet ofJesus, out into the community to
the least lost, alone and thevulnerable.
And let's just look at the lifeof Jesus.
So all that to say because I'mone of those larger church
(43:00):
pastors or whatever.
We just focus on Jesus, bro.
Let's just get to the story ofJesus.
Put yourself in the shoes ofthe Samaritan woman at the well
as she's, this outsider thatJesus brings near and reveals
everything in her life, and yetshe goes and is the first
evangelist.
Let's just tell what I've seenis like when we tell more of the
Jesus stories and awakenpeople's imagination and place
(43:23):
themselves there in thosestories.
Their heart for the other,wherever it is, always gets,
always gets open.
You know so, I don't.
You can't pin our churches downas right or left or blah.
You know this kind of thing, no, no, no, we're Jesus people and
there are so many words likeDEI or justice, and you kind of
just say that God is a God ofjustice between love and justice
(43:44):
.
Right, we should fear and loveGod.
Right.
And where there are brokenparts in our community, in us,
outside of us, god wants to useus to be his hands and feet to
bring wholeness, I guessindividually and systemically.
And I guess when you starttalking about systems, I'm a
systems guy.
We talk about the culture and Iwant to get into how you're
leading at Abide, like that'sgoing to be the second part of
(44:06):
our conversation here.
But we talk the systems ofinterconnected relationships.
You can't deny that humanbeings are built for
relationships and interconnectedrelationships that are very,
very messy.
That lead us, hopefully, tolook more and more like Jesus
and less and less like a dividedpolitical world in which we
(44:28):
find ourselves right now.
So yeah, I've wrestled withthat.
That breaks my heart, man, tothink of a pastor who would feel
so torn that he can't talkabout partnering with a group
like y'all or going into theinner city that he gosh, did he
take it?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
That's really, really sad, and I would say this a lot
of times too.
Talking about it is onechallenge, but then, at the end
of the day, we all only have somany resources to invest Well,
that's true and people andfinances, and so I think that's
where, I would say, more of thetension is.
The rubber meets the road.
But I would say this tooSystems like some of the systems
(45:05):
of segregation that have led towhere we are today.
You know, I love the story ofJesus and the woman at the well,
and he goes to Samaria and heinteracts with her, and there
was a whole system that heintercepted.
And we would say, systems arechanged one story at a time.
That's right, and that's whatJesus shows us.
But Jesus was intentional to goto Samaria or to go to where
(45:26):
that woman was.
And so sometimes, you know, forus, part of our job and our
work is to provide practicalopportunities for people to get
in the game, get next tobrokenness and start to have
those experiences.
You know, when the spiritualbecomes practical man, it's
powerful for those that areexperiencing it, and so we have
(45:46):
to, as leaders, I think,sometimes create practical
runways to get people involved,as we're preaching Jesus, as
we're giving them context, man,this is how you can put that
into practice, you know, on aconsistent basis.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Amen, amen.
Hey, let's last 15 minutes orso, man, let's talk just your
leadership at Abide.
Tell us the vision of Abide,kind of the team that you're
helping to oversee, because itreally is.
We're only as healthy as theteam of people that we bring
around us, right?
So tell that vision, tell aboutyour team and how do you hold
your team kind of accountable?
(46:19):
You got a complex thing goingon, man.
We just heard bits and piecesof it, but yeah, you carry,
you're spinning a lot of plates,you know in your role.
So, yeah, talk about yourvision and your team there, josh
.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Yeah, our vision, I would say as an organization,
there's twofold.
One of it, one side of it, isto see, we would say, every
person, experience and be onpurpose, experiencing the power
of purpose.
We think when Christians liveon mission, lives are changed.
And so one side of our workreally focuses on mobilizing the
church, empowering Christiansto understand and live on
(46:54):
purpose.
And then the other side of ourwork really looks to help every
person in this part of our cityhave every opportunity to reach
their full God-given potential.
And so it's really holisticdiscipleship and we focus on
three areas neighborhoods,children and youth programming
and then leadership development.
(47:15):
And so our neighborhoodstrategy is really about
infiltrating the neighborhoodsthat the police would consider
as the most challenging, themost violent, putting people in
those neighborhoods through whatwe call lighthouses, renovating
homes.
We've, over the course of thelast 16 years, we've renovated
49 lighthouses and empoweredpeople to live in those.
(47:38):
Over the next four years wewant to renovate and empower 50
new lighthouses with people inthem.
So we would have 99 lighthousesin these neighborhoods, uh, in
the next four years.
So in in neighborhoods, that'spart of our vision.
On the campus, so we purchasedwhat used to be called the
Nebraska school for the deaf inin the center of our urban
(47:58):
context.
It's 24 acres, um, you know, 11different buildings.
It was built like a mini smallcollege campus.
There's gymnasium, fitnesscenter, school, education center
, and so our dream is tocontinue to develop out spaces
on this campus to provideholistic discipleship and
(48:20):
programming for children, youthand families.
We partner with also given onthe season, about 18 different
organizations on campus to helpprovide some of that programming
and discipleship.
So that's kind of the vision onthe season about 18 different
organizations on campus to helpprovide some of that, some of
that programming anddiscipleship.
So that's kind of the vision onthe campus.
And leadership I mean we want toraise up world class leaders
from and for the world'schallenging, most challenging
(48:40):
communities, and so we reallywant to be known.
We know that leaders ultimatelylive in the neighborhoods.
Leaders lead the programs thatwe have on campus and in our
community, and so we have a hugepassion and bent to really be
the type of people who areraising up those types of
leaders.
And so we've got a small teamright now, a team of about 20.
(49:01):
In different seasons We've had,you know, more give or take.
We partner with a lot ofdifferent organizations in the
city and we're trying to be andbuild a world class organization
.
That's probably one of thethings that we're really
passionate about as anorganization is, you know, a lot
of times in communities likeours, you can get away with
(49:22):
being average or OK, or peopleare just happy that you're doing
something, being average orokay, or people are just happy
that you're doing something.
We don't want to just dosomething.
We want to change the narrative, we want to change the story,
we want to really empower peoplein our community, and so we try
to pursue this.
You know, level of ofworld-class, excellent culture
and, uh, we, we just believeJesus was the best leader who
(49:44):
ever lived, and we want todevelop more leaders that look
and act like him.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
What's your training look like for that?
What's the combination betweenlike apprenticeship and actual
like, maybe classroomexperiences Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (49:59):
So over the years it's taken on different forms.
There's certain conferences,like the Global Leadership
Summit.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
We've been very actively a part.
I knew you were into GLS.
We're GLS kind of fanatics here.
Yeah, we love it.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
So my first GLS was when I was in the sixth grade
have been very connected thereso we've been there personally.
My dad used to raise $60,000,take leaders from our community
there.
Today we host it on site.
We're hosting our firstleadership conference.
We've done smaller ones butkind of a larger leadership
conference here in May.
(50:31):
We've got leadership lunchesabout every other month.
We've got several books andleadership curriculum.
We're actually this year goingto officially start a leadership
school in the fall and so we'vehad internships, kind of
residencies.
But we really have a vision toreally create a school, a
multi-year school, where peopleare living, staying on site and
(50:52):
then, you know, either stayinghere and or going to other
communities around the world toserve the underserved.
And so we're doing more toformalize what we've done over
the years, just so we can createa larger pipeline and stream of
leaders that are coming through.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
What's your current budget?
I'm sorry to get into the weedshere, just curious what's your
current budget?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah, depending on the year between operations and
capital, you know three to fivemillion, depending on how many
projects we're going after,depending on, you know, projects
on campus and or houses thatwe're renovating.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
What's the budget gap between what you need, what the
vision is going to require?
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Depends on the year.
But I mean we can go from200,000 to 400,000, depending on
the year.
But I would say, you know, interms of where we want to go?
Yeah, that's what I was asking.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
I'm more about like what is, what's the future look
like, and what's that dollaramount?
Dollar amount, yeah, I mean,it's probably an annual budget
of closer to 10 million.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
10, yeah, and that doesn't include capital
improvements, but that is moreof the operational budget, of
what it would look like movingforward hey.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
So our god owns it all.
Uh, he can do exceedingly morethan we ask, think or hope or
imagine.
Right, so there may be somebodylistening.
That's like I want to see cityrevitalization in Omaha that
could be a model that leadstoward inner city revitalization
in other urban centers.
Like someone could write acheck right now for $10, $20,
(52:22):
$30 million, right.
So there could be billionairesthat are listening to this, that
want to have some kind ofsignificance.
There's a lot of billionairesin our world today and man, if
the Lord captures their heart,the amount of kingdom impact and
partnership with local churchesand with nonprofits like Abide
it is exponential I've heard.
I just want to commend you, man,the work that you're doing,
(52:43):
your labor of love,multi-generational.
I can only imagine because I'ma guy with big dreams here to
see multi-sites leadershipdevelopment that changes local
churches, view of where leaderscome from.
I'm way into localcross-cultural leaders,
indigenous leaders being raisedup.
We got a lot of things thatwe're overlapping with.
(53:03):
I do know that when you havebig, big dreams like that, you
can, and I believe God puts thatin people.
There can be points, maybe lastquestion or there can be points
and you're like what, god,why'd you do that to me?
Like this is a cross, this ishard right, maybe even a sense
(53:24):
of the imposter syndrome.
I talked to different leadersthat are like, oh man, I don't
even know that I can sustain thelevel of energy that it's going
to be necessary to see thisthing happen.
This is the way I've kind of, Iguess, wrestled with it and
come to peace with.
What God has done to me is thatI don't have to see all the
results right now.
I just got to be faithful oneday into the next day, pouring
(53:48):
into people who are, who willpour into people, and God will
take care of the results and Idon't need to.
It's probably the results ofwhat God does is probably going
to happen long after I'm withthe Lord, you know, in paradise
with Jesus, like, so I don'tneed, I've surrendered.
I guess the desire to seeeverything's got to be changed,
like right now it's like, oh,it's a long game guess the
desire to see everything's gotto be changed, like right now.
It's like oh, it's a long game,god's been in the long game with
(54:09):
me and with all of a brokencreation and so just be faithful
in your season.
Is that kind of the way you'reposturing your heart, josh?
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Well, I would say, Tim, you're a much better man
than I am.
Uh, I know that intellectually,but sometimes that's really
hard in the sense of I want tosee certain things happen.
I always tell people, man, Iwant to be 10 years ahead of
where we are, and, uh, so thatmakes you a leader.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
That's normal dude Like that's just the wrestle
that just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
I was going to say I definitely wrestle with that
tension all the time of wantingto be farther ahead but also
recognizing man, my job is to befaithful.
I remember when we purchasedthis campus.
You know, a lot of people saidthis campus was too big for our
organization back then, and sowe purchased it and God provided
the resources for us to get it,but then it had a lot of
(54:55):
challenges and almost everyboard meeting the board members
were saying man, you got to getrid of that thing.
And it was just.
It was a time of wrestlingbetween God, man.
I felt like this was the visionyou called us into, but it
doesn't seem to be working outand it felt like the blessing
had become a burden.
And so there's been all thesepeaks and valleys, highs and
lows, but in the end you know,whether it's this campus,
(55:18):
whether it's other things,they're also a monument of God's
grace, his goodness, hisfaithfulness, and that, as in
first Corinthians, like I readrecently, god uses the foolish
things, the shame, the wise, andso, just recognizing man, God
does things that we could neverimagine and I've got to continue
to lean into what he's sayingand doing, and not all the time
(55:41):
what I'm wanting or what otherpeople are saying and doing.
So that's been a part of ourjourney over the years.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Josh, this has been so much fun.
Man, you're a gift.
I can't wait to meet yousomeday in person.
Thank you for the generosity oftime and I'm going to be
praying for Abide, you and yourleadership and your vision to
see city transformation in Omahaand the ripple effect that it
could have beyond Omaha.
People want to connect to Abideand you personally.
How can they do so that it?
Speaker 1 (56:07):
could have beyond Omaha.
People want to connect to Abideand you personally.
How can they do so?
Yeah, they can check outAbideOmahaorg as our website,
social media channels AbideOmaha too, and my social media
channels Josh Doetzler andjoshdoetzlercom.
So any of those, tim?
Thanks for having me, bro.
It was really good connectingwith you, meeting you.
Hopefully we get to connect inperson sometime and keep up the
great work.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Likewise.
Well, I'm sorry for messing.
I always mess up people's lastnames and that's a frustrating
thing.
All right, dotzler, next timeI'm going to nail it.
Anyway, this is a joy.
It's a good day.
Go make it a great day.
We'll be back with anotherepisode of the Tim Allman
podcast next week.
Jesus loves you.
Let's go on mission to make himknown in our respective cities
and neighborhoods.
God bless.
Thanks, josh Yep.
You know, when the spiritual becomes practical,
(00:02):
it's powerful for those that areexperiencing it, and so we have
to, as leaders, I think,sometimes create practical
runways to get people involved,as we're preaching Jesus, as
we're giving them context.
Man, this is how you can putthat into practice, you know, on
a consistent basis.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to the Tim Allman Podcast.
It's a good day.
Jesus is radically in love withyou and the joy of His Spirit
the love, joy, peace, patience,kindness, the fruit of His
Spirit, I pray, is fueling youfor a life of mission and
ministry to look up and out, tosee the fields are ripened to
the harvest, to notice peopletoday and to grow with humility
(00:42):
and great, great joy.
Today I get the privilege ofhanging out with a brother that
I just met.
Had been referred to him.
We have some ties, deep ties,in Omaha.
I don't know why I'm thinkingPeyton Manning right now, but
Omaha Anyway.
I'm a Denver Broncos fan but Iget to hang out with Josh
Dotzler and let me tell you alittle bit about him.
He's a spiritual leader,justice advocate, communicator
(01:04):
and a CEO of Abide.
I'll let him tell the story ofAbide, a nonprofit mission
focused on revitalizing theinner city of Omaha, one
neighborhood at a time.
He's used his voice on nationaland local level to ignite
change, inspire individuals touse their God-given influence to
seek God-sized impact.
This is going to be a lot offun today.
He also is he's got a past inbasketball.
(01:27):
If you're watching on YouTubeor wherever, he's got a
Creighton jacket on playedbasketball at Creighton Sports
has been a part of his story andthis is going to be great.
He also is.
He has a wife named Jenniferand they have four children Josh
, joseph, juliana and Jada.
So two boys, two girls.
That's pretty sweet.
What are their ages, josh?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So we got our oldest is going to be 15 this month
actually, and then we go 13, 11,and 7.
So the two girls are younger,two boys are older.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Ah well, I love it.
So thanks for generosity oftime.
You feeling good today, manReady for a fun conversation of
growth?
Hey?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
feeling good.
Tim, thanks for having me man,appreciate you just being a part
.
It's crazy just in connectingbefore we went live here, just
hearing some of the connectionsand your time in Nebraska,
concordia, playing some sports,and so it truly is a small world
, but glad to be connected withyou and your entire community
today.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, man.
Well, yeah, the joy is ours.
So let's talk.
Let's talk sports.
I love talking sports, maybetoo much sometimes, people may
say, but I think sports shapesus.
You get on a team, there'sgoing to be trouble, trial,
conflict, adversity,perseverance, et cetera.
It teaches so much to developthe young man or woman of faith,
(02:42):
the character of Christ thatcomes alive in athletics.
So talk about your athleticjourney.
You ended up playing your pointguard at Creighton.
You walked through someadversity.
Tell that story.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, well, I mean, similar to you, sports was a
huge part of my upbringing andI'm actually one of 14 kids and
all of us played basketballgrowing up.
My parents actually met incollege.
My mom's from Washington DCshe's African-American, my dad's
a white guy from small townIowa but they both played
basketball in college and that'skind of how they met.
(03:13):
What college?
It was a small school division,I think three Tarcheo College
in Missouri that like no longerexists.
But they, they met passionateand very competitive people and
so we grew up in a verycompetitive environment.
I'm the fifth child and so I'vegot some older siblings, but
(03:33):
always played sports basketball.
When I was young my parentsstarted our nonprofit but you
know, I thought basketball waskind of my ticket out of the
Omaha area, out of the communitywe grew up in.
So I played high school.
We won a couple of statechampionships in high school.
As a sophomore in high school Iwas recruited by three schools
(03:54):
Creighton was one of them,nebraska and then Kansas back in
the day when Coach Roy Williamswas there, and so I went on a
couple of unofficial visits,ended up committing to Creighton
as a sophomore.
At the time I was the youngestplayer to make a verbal
commitment.
Back then it was cool to commitearly.
Today you try to get as manyoffers as possible, but went to
(04:17):
Creighton as a freshman.
Was actually having a greatfreshman season, was starting
almost every single game You'replaying with freshmen.
Wow, I played with some somereally good players, guys like
anthony toliver, who actuallyplayed in the nba for 14 years,
um, some other guys.
But my freshman year, with sixgames left, I tore my pcl and,
(04:39):
uh, got tripped from behind,fell down, didn't kind of you
know, know the implications ofthat, but would have surgery,
try to come back too soon.
And it was kind of you know,know the implications of that,
but would have surgery, try tocome back too soon.
And it was kind of thebeginning of the end of my
basketball career and it was areally honestly, pivotal season
(05:00):
in my life and God shifting myfocus and him becoming more
central to my life.
But, man, the teams I played on, the relationships I built,
creighton too.
Being in a city like Omahapopulation around a million
Creighton consistently is in thetop 10 of attendance for
basketball games, so we averagedover 15,000 fans a game, played
in front of great crowds,played in the NCAA tournament,
(05:24):
played with great players, andeven to this day, a lot of those
relationships that I've builtat Creighton have supported our
work, have been connected towhat we're doing, and so that
was basketball really helped me,you know, have experiences that
I would have never had before.
Taught me so much, so super,super pivotal in my story.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, and there's probably some grief there too,
right Cause you're a young manand it just doesn't go.
So you learn, you learn togrieve.
And I mean I had the same thing.
You eventually hang it up and Iremember I wasn't hurt or
nothing.
I actually was obeying the callto go on and be a pastor, go to
the seminary and do things likethat, and gave it up at like
22,.
You know, kind of being really,really competitive and you're
(06:03):
like I think I could still dosome stuff for a minute.
You know, I was just startingmy hitting, I was just starting
to kind of come around as a, asa hitter and stuff, and it's
like Nope, god takes away whatcould end up being being an idol
.
Right, athletics coulddefinitely end up being an idol.
I've talked to manyprofessional athletes and that's
where they end up going.
Their whole identity is basedon doing that, that sport,
(06:23):
hearing the applause and itreally, as I look back and I'd
be curious to get your take, itwas a, it was a blessing that
God kind of took that away inthat season.
He's like all right, youlearned, you learned enough,
let's.
Let's move on and uh, andreally get about kingdom
expanding work Anything morethere about the grief of, of
losing that, that idol, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I mean it, it for me it was incredibly challenging to
make that shift, and part of itthrough my injury.
I went through three years ofjust honestly feeling like a
failure on the court and, uh,from hearing booze to you know,
hearing people say, man, we'reready for adults or to
transition.
So from an identity perspective, I mean it took me over five
(07:03):
years before I could go back toa game because of some of the
hurt and pain that I feltthrough that experience.
Similar to you, I tell people,man, it can be a blessing to
start to make that transitionsooner than later in life, when
you start to realize there'slife after sports, there's life
after athletics.
Obviously a lot of greatexperiences and take it as far
(07:26):
as you can, but you know,whether it's with my kids today
siblings that I have I try tohelp them understand, which is
what people try to help us dotoo.
You know, understand there'slife after sports.
But until you go through yourown experience sometimes you
just don't get that, thatrevelation.
So I actually recently wrote abook called Playing on Purpose
(07:47):
and it's for young athletes, tohelp them maximize their
potential on the court but alsostart to grow and develop habits
, mindsets, just this purposefullifestyle that can really
affect and impact the worldaround them, and start to get to
think beyond the basketballcourt.
And so I have a passion to usesports for good but then to help
(08:09):
people understand man.
It's a platform, it's anopportunity for growth and
trying to help people not, youknow, athletes specifically not
wrap their entire identityaround it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
No question, Are you?
Are you connected as a coach?
Are you coaching at all Youngkids.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So I coach my, I'm one of the coaches on my son's
basketball team, and then I'llspeak to some high schools, some
college teams, and just stayconnected to the game that way
yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, so people know I coach high school football.
I was a special teams coachthis last year.
I hadn't been around X's andO's in like 20 years and now I'm
second year into it and, man,it's a kick.
It's just for a season, butcoaching is pretty fun.
So maybe, yeah, leave that dooropen as Joshua and Joseph get a
little older.
To be a part-time coach I foundcommunity outside of my church
(08:53):
leadership role.
That's just been man.
It's been really life-giving.
So, hey, let's talk about theinner city.
Some of our listeners mayberural, maybe suburban.
My first five years of ministrywere in the inner tier suburb
of Denver.
A lot of diversity, a lot ofsocioeconomic diversity.
So how did you develop thatdream for city transformation?
(09:16):
That doesn't just happen.
I think God puts you in acertain context and says, hey,
be faithful with your story andhelp shape the story of this
city.
So tell that story, josh.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, I mean it really started with my parents
and my dad, like I mentionedearlier, white guy from a rural
town, population 300 in Iowa.
And so when you think abouturban city transformation you
don't think about it startingwith a white guy from a rural
town.
But after they got married hewas a chemical engineer out of
college.
They lived in the suburbancontext here in Omaha and he
(09:50):
just felt like God was callinghim to some sort of mission
field.
He didn't know where it was, itwasn't necessarily to the urban
context in Omaha.
If anything, he thought he wasgoing to get called overseas
somewhere and he would become anoverseas missionary.
And you know the way God kindof unfolds stories.
He basically him and my mom,told God we don't want to live
(10:12):
in North Omaha, which was oururban inner city, because of the
crime, the violence, thepoverty.
And you know he didn't want tonecessarily be a pastor.
And God, through the story, hequit his job, sold their house.
They had nowhere to go througha connection.
There was a house that openedup in North Omaha and so they
moved into that house, thinkingit was going to be short term,
(10:33):
and that was in 1989.
And he tells the story in hisbook Out of the Seats Into the
Streets.
After moving into thisneighborhood, they live next to
an individual who is consideredone of the biggest drug dealers
in the community and they livenext to across the street from
another guy where my dad said hesaw more police at that guy's
(10:54):
house in two weeks than he hadever seen police in his entire
life growing up in rural townIowa.
And so he just had all theseexperiences, saw all these
challenges and knew he wassupposed to be a part of the
solution in some way.
And that was really the genesisof our nonprofit Abide.
And in the early years AbideA-B-I-D-E was an acrostic for a
(11:17):
Bible.
In daily experience it wasreally his heart.
My dad and my mom were a partof this large church in our city
and they felt like asChristians you know we shouldn't
just show up on Sunday andworship and learn more about
God's word, but we've got to putour faith in action.
We've got to get out of theseats and into the streets and
(11:39):
really make a difference.
And so he spent a lot of histime in the early years bringing
Christians on missions tripsthrough outreach events to the
inner city context, throwingvacation, bible school events.
Block mean just by virtue ofliving in that neighborhood and
seeing things started to develop, I would say a more holistic
(12:08):
strategy for how to revitalizeand transform an entire
community.
And I'll just say this In 2007,the neighborhood we were living
in, the police actuallyredlined as one of the most
violent neighborhoods in thecity and we had been living
there, our neighbors weremurdered, our house was shot at.
I mean, the stories that mostpeople hear are the stories that
(12:29):
we saw and experienced, whichis why I wanted to leave the
community and loved what myparents were doing but didn't
want to be a part of it, and itwas about 2007.
My dad kind of shifted hisapproach from just kind of
starting a lot of programs toreally kind of this neighborhood
approach that really built onthe power of putting leaders in
(12:51):
communities and in neighborhoods.
We had renovated some homes, wemoved some families into those
homes, my parents had lived inthat neighborhood, we started
throwing community block partiesand events, we had started a
church and about two years laterthe police came back and said
this neighborhood that was onceone of the worst is now one of
(13:12):
the best and whatever you'vedone in this neighborhood, let's
take it to more neighborhoods.
And ultimately, you know, itwas really built again on the
power of presence, we would say.
When the people of God arepresent in places of need and
places of challenge, thepresence of God becomes a
reality and those places startto change.
And so our primary strategy istrying to empower the people of
(13:37):
God in places of need and reallygiving them the tools and
resources to be a part of thattransformation.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Bro, that's amazing.
That sounds like what thechurch should be all about,
right.
Bringing the transformativepresence of the crucified and
risen Jesus in embodied form.
We are the body of Christ, thevoice of Christ, the love of
Christ through our hands andfeet and through our lips, and
communities change.
Let's get into the weeds alittle bit.
(14:06):
Of leadership development wewere talking I'm connected to
the Unite Leadership Collective.
Leadership's a big deal.
When leaders change, the orgchanges, when, when leaders are
raised up indigenously in thatcommunity, they care for that
community.
Whether it's a, whether it's a,this is like hardwired into
humanity, bro, you know, likewhether it's your local church
that you care about, your localcommunity.
Obviously, like I want to dosomething here.
(14:28):
I've been put on planet Earthfor this purpose to bring love
and light to this dark, thedarkness that's all around us,
and people just need folks likeyou and it sounds like your
organization to buy to say I seethis in you, I see leadership
potential in you.
Let's fan that into flame.
Let's fan that into flame.
Let's be as as becausediscipleship is all
apprenticeship, right?
I mean as you're, as I'mfollowing Jesus, you come and
(14:49):
follow me and kind of learn it,and then we're going to do the I
do you watch, I do you help.
That whole continuum there,right?
So is that a little bit of whatit looks like to raise up
leaders, local, to take moreresponsibility toward community
transformation?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
A hundred percent.
You know, when we talk aboutleadership, we a lot of times
first talk about this idea ofpurpose, and you even use the
word discipleship.
And you know my dad's quest tofind his purpose led him to this
community, and purpose is allabout.
You know who God has made me tobe and the impact I'm called to
have in the world.
(15:21):
In communities like North Omaha, the saying is work hard, get
an education and you too canmove out of the ghetto.
And so to become a leader or tomove up in life ultimately
means to move out of thecommunity.
And so when you look at innercity urban communities, there's
a lack of stability, there's alack of consistency, there's a
(15:44):
lack of leadership.
Ultimately and John Perkins,he's the founder of the
philosophy of Christiancommunity development he talks
about this idea.
That, and Bob Lupton, they talkabout this idea If you want to
create a community, remove allof the capable leaders, or if
you want to create an inner city, remove all of the capable
leaders, or if you want tocreate an inner city, remove all
(16:04):
of the capable leaders.
And my dad, as a leader onpurpose, moved into this
community and he did whatleaders do he started to try to
find a solution to thechallenges that he was seeing.
And over the years, what we'veseen is, you know, just like in
our city, there's a gap betweenthe poverty of our city and the
prosperity.
There's a gap between thepoverty of our city and the
(16:27):
prosperity.
There's a leadership gap, andone of the primary reasons
leaders aren't present isbecause of the challenges they
face and the lack of resourcesprovided to help those leaders
thrive and grow and learn.
And so just a very practicalexample my wife and I, we live
in the community that we serve,but for many years I had to go
(16:47):
outside of the community to getaccess to a fitness center where
I could, you know, try to stayin shape.
We have to go outside of thecommunity to be a part of some
sports programs for our son.
We have to go outside of thecommunity to find Christian
education.
And so the community doesn'tprovide the opportunities or
resources for leaders, forindividual families who are
(17:11):
trying to grow and develop andthrive.
They don't provide thoseresources.
Right here in the community weaccess to those resources, and
so part of our job and work isto really build bridges and
break barriers, to try to bridgethe gap between resources
outside of our community andresources in our community.
(17:33):
It's providing holisticdiscipleship for all the
individuals that we're workingwith that ultimately leads to
leadership development.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
What are some of the stereotypes?
Leadership, development, amen.
What are some of thestereotypes?
I'm asking you to get to 30,000feet or so, but stereotypes
about ministry in the urbancenter that you're like.
That's just not true.
And I ask this with a littlebit of context too, because
we're just getting to know oneanother.
I've been a part of a ministrycalled the Table.
I helped start it, meal andworship inclusive of, but not
(18:04):
exclusively for, the working,poor and homeless living in
Denver.
And then we've been connectedto a ministry called La Mesa
similar concept here over adecade now in Central Mesa and
then in Central Tempe, inpartnership with churches that
are more in the urban center.
And some of those stereotypeslike well, they're all addicts
or et cetera, you know they'vejust obviously messed up their
(18:26):
life.
My experience, our experienceat La Mesa, is why does poverty
come?
And then addiction and some ofthe other struggles.
Why does poverty come?
It's a breakdown ofrelationship.
You can say, first with the Godof the universe, but then in
family and in relationship, justthe leaders, the father, the
mother.
That wasn't there, thestability when a kid made a
mistake there's no margin formistakes often in these families
(18:50):
and they end up on the streets,vulnerable and Jesus still has
a mission and purpose that'sunplanned for their life.
But, yeah, I guess thestereotypes that we in the upper
middle class.
It's just not true, man,they're people just like you are
.
They need to eat, they needlove, they need community and
they need that purpose and thechurch.
If the church isn't thereproviding that higher calling,
(19:11):
that higher purpose, man, we'rereally, really missing out, I
think, on what it means to be afollower of Jesus.
So is it?
Yeah, break down some of thosestereotypes?
Is it just an absence ofrelationship Talk types?
Is it just an absence ofrelationship?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Talk there, josh.
Well, I think when I hear yousay relationship, what connects
with me is it is generationaland it's one generation to the
next.
You know, just from what I'veseen being living here full time
for the last 15 years with mywife and family and kids is, you
see, a generation of kidsgrowing up without a support
(19:43):
system.
You know, maybe a single parent, mom and no connection to a
father, or they're growing upwithout a support system.
You know, maybe a single parent, mom and no connection to a
father, or they're growing upmaybe with a level of support
but lack of access to resources.
They don't have theopportunities, whether it's
afterschool, educational,recreational sports.
You know people will ask me,josh, what does it take to to to
(20:04):
help a kid in your community?
What does it take to raise up aleader?
And I always ask them thequestion what does it take to
raise your son or daughter?
Do you know?
Do you know what the averageprice point is in a middle-class
family to raise a child fromzero to 17?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
It's like it's a lot.
Is it 500,000?
I don't know.
I've heard different numbers.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
There's probably different numbers.
One of the numbers that I sawthrough research was 350,000, on
average, 350,000.
And so think about, think aboutthat.
That 350,000 goes towardseducation, recreation, childcare
, I mean you, you, healthcare,like you name it.
That's a lot of money, a lot ofresources.
It takes a lot to develop achild, and so in our community,
(20:49):
we can't expect one program, wecan't expect, you know, one
investment to create theseoutcomes that we're looking for.
It takes this holistic.
It takes a lot of money, a lotof resources to see the type of
outcomes that we want.
And so I think so many peoplein our community what happens,
like you're saying, they'regrowing up in these environments
(21:09):
, they're living in crisis mode.
They make one bad decision as aresult of the only thing they
know, the only thing they'veseen, what they naturally
respond to do.
It shifts the trajectory oftheir life forever and before
you know it, you have a wholecommunity of people living in
poverty together, and so ittakes a lot to get out of that.
(21:31):
And so I think we see theoutcomes, but the investment it
takes, same with leadership man.
It takes a lot of resources, ittakes a lot of investment to
develop a leader from ourcommunity because the starting
point is so much farther behindthan somebody maybe who's
growing up or who has relationalequity with other leaders and
(21:53):
grows up in a leadershipenvironment outside of our
community relational equity withother leaders and grows up in a
leadership environment outsideof our community.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
That's just true.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
That's just very, very true so let's go down this
pathway.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Diversity, equity, inclusion I didn't actually
include that in your bio, thoughit is in your bio.
You've been a trainer and thereason I didn't honestly is
because people may even stop,and honestly is because people
may even stop.
They hear that phrase.
It becomes so politicized thatwe have no room for the
conversation around diversity,equity and inclusion.
(22:25):
Now, all cards on the tableface up.
I think that we need to focuson outcomes beyond diversity,
equity.
I think we need to focus oncharacter, the character of
Christ that supersedes thepoliticization that's taken
place with a term like DEI, andright now I mean this is being
(22:46):
recorded on February 3rd 2025.
President Trump is back inoffice and he is setting an
environment where businesses areactively canceling their DEI
efforts and we can debate on howeffective some of those efforts
were in various businesses, etc.
But you've spoken about thisopportunity in your context and
(23:07):
I think it's good to set thefirst 20 minutes of this
conversation.
You train out of your contextand you see inequity in your
context.
Your context and you seeinequity in your context and
when we talk about it's not thesame outcomes because they're
starting in different places.
That's just true and it doesn'tmean so I'm just putting
everything out.
(23:27):
It doesn't mean that merit-basedhard work isn't a thing, right?
Meritocracy is a real thing.
We should still care aboutmerit, right?
That we're not.
I think that's a that's a falsedichotomy, that we think that
diversity, equity, inclusion andthen merit are at odds with one
another.
No, I think they'recomplimentary.
I'd love to get your take onthat, bro.
(23:48):
So thanks for thanks forentertaining that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
No, well, you know there's a lot of things to talk
about and digest in what you'resaying.
I think you know, first andforemost, we can take any word,
term or idea and we can createit and make it into something
that maybe it originally wasn'tintended to be.
I mean, I just think, as you'reusing the language DEI, I think
(24:12):
of the term and language we use, christianity.
I mean, I think of the term andlanguage we use, christianity.
I mean we live today, we livein a post-Christian culture, and
so language like that, you know, can be politicized, taken out
of context DEI.
For me, I can't help but be apart of any conversations about
that, because I'm half black,half white.
My wife is half Mexican, halfThai white.
(24:40):
My wife is half Mexican, halfThai.
My parents grew up and when mydad asked to marry my mom, they
said no because he was white.
And so you know, he started tolearn about some of the
challenges that the blackcommunity faced historically and
that my mom's parents face.
He started to understand thatmy mom's siblings couldn't swim
in the same swimming pool asother white kids in that
community and how my mom was apart of the busing system for
(25:01):
desegregation, and so so much ofthat has been a part of our
story, and what we've learned inthe process is we all have a
lens that we see the worldthrough.
We all have a worldview basedon my experiences of growing up
in the urban inner city context.
There are kids that don't havethe same opportunities as other
(25:24):
kids, and in our city in Omaha,nebraska, which has been
considered one of the mostsegregated cities in the nation
over the years, the blackcommunity and the Hispanic
community are also theimpoverished communities and are
the communities that don't haveas many resources.
And so you look at some ofthose statistics, you look at
(25:47):
the reality of the way ourcity's broken up, you realize
there is, and there has been agap, and Jesus talked about it
all throughout scripture theJews, the Gentiles, the slaves I
mean.
The story of the good Samaritanis a prime example when, when,
when the Jew asked man what ismost important, jesus said to
(26:07):
love your love, lord, your God,with all your heart, mind, soul
and strength.
Love your neighbor as you loveyourself.
And the Bible says he wanted tojustify his answer, and so he
says well, who is my neighbor?
And then we know the story andhow it ends and this idea of
compassion and how compassionled to the action that he took.
And so we would say this whenyou have a personal experience,
(26:30):
when you're proximate to some ofthe challenges, you have a
level of compassion that movesyou to action and says I got to
be a part of the solution.
And I think the opposite is true.
When we're at a distance ofpeople who are different than us
and we don't know their storyand we don't understand where
they come from, it's easy tojudge, it's easy to you know,
(26:51):
share and carry a certainnarrative, but something happens
.
When we get close to people whoare hurting, again we
understand, you know how theygot to where they are.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, geez, 100% true .
And I could, because I live ina suburban context here in
Gilbert Arizona.
Oh, that's our school startingour day right now.
Let me stop that.
Anyway, it is.
It is a challenge.
I talk about La Mesa, it's achallenge.
(27:24):
It's probably we're probably2,500 in our community kind of
thing.
You know, I bet 10% of ourchurch and we always make the
encouragement has experiencedlife and a story connected to La
Mesa or Marina.
There's just something about theother that is just, oh, I pull
back, I'm uncertain, I don'tknow how to engage.
(27:45):
What I say, what we say, isjust go and eat and hear a story
, share your story.
It's as simple as that.
And it does develop thatcompassion that I would say
leads to action.
That's very, very true.
And Jesus crosses everything.
Like you can't look at Jesusand see how he is I'll just use,
because we love right and left,right, right and left.
(28:07):
He is like right down themiddle, crossing every single
boundary to reach Jew, gentile,slave, free, young, old, rich,
poor.
Galatians 3, 28,.
Right, I mean, it's just soamazing.
And this is what was soshocking about the early church.
Like you want us to go there.
You see the apostle Paul's likecall, like he's so frustrated
with his Jewish brothers andsisters because they're the
people of the promise, et cetera, but now he has this call to
(28:29):
cross every single boundary totake the and it did all the way
to Rome at the end of the bookof Acts right.
We often today think we don'tunderstand how cross-cultural
Christ was and then the earlychurch was and how the apostles
actually strategically werespread across the known world,
even to the point of, like,losing their life because they
(28:50):
would say Jesus is Lord ratherthan Caesar is Lord, et cetera.
And it was messy, you know, itwas remarkable.
You just look at the book oflike Corinthians.
Corinthians is remarkably messyand you've got a dude steep
sleeping with a step.
I mean, it's just all sorts ofmess, cross-cultural mess.
And and Paul is writing, I'lllay on this plane Paul is
writing reactively to what iswhat the Holy Spirit is already
(29:11):
doing cross-culturally, carryingthe message of the crucified
and risen Jesus to the world.
And we in the West, I would sayin the majority culture, we
want to control and have a planand strategy and like it's just
not the way, it's circuitous,man, it's gray Ministry and life
is in the gray, and the more werecognize so like I am
(29:35):
fundamentally flawed.
I have been born with sin, andthat sin one of the best
metaphors for sin is man orwoman turned in, like my natural
nature until christ comes andmakes me his own is be turned in
on myself, and so confession issaying that is that is true,
and now I have been crucifiedwith christ, I no longer live.
He lives within, and so now Imove to arms hands wide, open
(29:58):
abundance.
God, where are you at work inthe world?
Because I know you are and Iwant to partner with you.
I want to meet you there and Iwant to meet the people that you
love who don't know your love.
Right, anything more to add tothat, josh?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Well, I just one of the things we talk about is
Christianity first starts withus inviting Jesus into our
hearts.
We we confession, you know,because we are sinners, because
we're turned inward, becausewe're self-focused, we have to
be saved from our sin.
And so it starts when we inviteJesus into our hearts.
But then we would say thesecond part of Christianity is
Jesus wants to invite uh, he, he, he wants to invite us into his
(30:33):
heart and he wants our heartsto break for the things that
break his heart.
He wants our hearts and ourvision to see what he sees the
brokenness in the world, thechallenges in the world.
And so that's why the Bibletalks about, you know, true
religion is caring for thewidows and loving and feeding
the poor.
And so we would just say thistoo not everybody's called to
(30:56):
live in the inner city, urbancontext, not everyone's called
to be an overseas missionary.
But, as Christians, all of usare called to live on purpose,
which means we get to be a partof the solution to our city's
challenges in some way, shape orform, and without getting close
to or proximate to some ofthose challenges you know, in
(31:18):
your context, la Mesa, in ourcontext, north Omaha without
getting close to some of thosechallenges, our heart will never
break for the things that breakthe heart of God.
And Jesus was constantly inproximity to people who had
needs and who had challenges.
And so I think for us, asChristians, the call is that
(31:38):
we've got to get the heart ofGod by getting close to people
who can help us get the heart ofGod.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Amen.
I had no idea that Omaha had along history of segregation.
Yeah, that's a new learning forme.
I live in, you know, phoenix isa young city in comparison to
many of our Midwest cities andthe racial pocket we don't have
(32:07):
as much of that here.
Well, more of a melt spot.
Everybody's just kind of comingtogether.
There may be, you know, somecommunities, but certainly not
like a Chicago which you hearabout the racial segregation way
more in a city like Chicago.
So tell, tell.
I mean, how does a certaincommunity become like this is
where the black community, thisis where the Hispanic community?
(32:28):
It just doesn't in my mind.
Because I know, like racismjust blow.
I'm just going to stop Racismlike blows my mind.
You know what I'm saying.
Like it doesn't.
I understand it.
I was a history major, Iunderstand it historically, but
as a Jesus follower I just don't.
I don't know how we couldpossibly justify it.
So tell the story of segregationin Omaha, Josh.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Well, I think Omaha, again for me, represents cities
across the country and everycity you know to varying degrees
, but ultimately you know.
When the laws were changed,when slavery was no longer a
reality, there were other lawsthat were put in place to keep
certain resources from groups ofpeople, specifically the black
community, and so redlining wasone of those things that
happened in cities across thecountry where there were literal
redlining was one of thosethings that happened in cities
across the country where therewere literal red lines that were
(33:21):
drawn around certain parts ofthe community where the blacks
lived, where they couldn't haveaccess to resources to purchase
homes and to start to createwealth for their families, and
so, like in Omaha, if you lookat where the redlining happened,
that redlining pretty much is apicture of what's termed as the
inner city.
Now, what's interesting is, 10years after redlining happened,
(33:45):
the term inner city becamepopularized by a politician and
the term inner city started todescribe what this part of the
community looked like that hadbeen redlined 10 years earlier.
And so again I realized thiseverybody's not a part of
(34:05):
creating these laws.
Typically, it's a certainselect few, a small majority
that's creating these laws, butit affects a large group of
people.
And so in Omaha, if you look at, one of the things that we show
is a murder map and we have redpins that show all of the
murders, the homicides that havehappened in our city over the
last 35 years.
(34:26):
Over 75% of those homicideshave been in formerly redlined
areas, and so what we say isthose red lines have led to red
dots.
Those red dots representpoverty, those red dots
represent fatherlessness.
I mean, in our city, again,there's this stark picture.
Let's say somebody, a goodfamily, moves to Omaha, nebraska
.
Do they want to move into aneighborhood that's safest or
(35:04):
one that's going to be, you know, in crisis?
Do they want to move into aneighborhood that's going to
have the best school district orthe worst school district?
Do they want to move into aneighborhood that is going to
housing prices are going to beat an all time high?
So, just naturally, whathappens is is we move into
cities and we make decisionsbased on what's best for our
family, which isn't all bad, butthe gap continues to grow and
(35:28):
we, you know, our kids, grow upin these environments that are
very disconnected to thechallenges of other individuals.
Same city, completely differentrealities, and again, every
city has varying degrees of this.
In Omaha it's very stark.
I mean Omaha in 2020, it washighlighted just through
(35:50):
conversations and relationshipsI have.
It was so bad People actuallythink of black and poverty as
one in the same.
It was so bad People actuallythink of black and poverty as
one in the same Because Omahadoesn't have a thriving, diverse
community.
That's outside of kind of theimpoverished context, whereas in
some cities larger cities, eastCoast, west Coast there's a lot
more diversity at a bunch ofdifferent socioeconomic levels I
(36:18):
mean just leadership levels.
In Omaha, it's not the case,and so you had a lot of
Christian pastors and leaderswho literally thought all
minorities lived in poverty, andI think that's the other
misnomer for us.
You talked about what are someof the misperceptions.
Well, in our city and I thinkacross the board, it's changing
a little bit, but you look atsome of the DEI stuff.
(36:40):
We believe that some of the bestand brightest leaders can come
from minority communities.
They're indigenous leaders.
But when you haven't had theopportunities, when you don't
have the relational equity on alarger scale, when you haven't
had the same leadershipopportunities as maybe somebody
who is equal to you, you're notgoing to become the world-class
(37:02):
leader that you could be.
You're not going to lead athriving organization.
I'll just speak to this man as ayoung leader, one of the
challenges I wrestle with.
I've led a church.
In this context, I'm looking atother leaders who I would say,
man, we're very similar andthey've got quadruple the
numbers that we have in terms ofpeople showing up but, more
(37:23):
importantly, finances and and itis hard to build a, a stable,
let alone thriving church in theurban context because the
resources aren't here in theurban context, because the
resources aren't here.
And that causes me, as aminority leader, to question my
capacity, to question myleadership, to question my
(37:44):
ability, instead of alsorecognizing.
Man, there are some realchallenges.
I can tell you this, tim, I'mworking just as hard as anybody
else, man, I'm getting up early,I'm taking care of myself
physically, I've been going toleadership conferences since the
sixth grade.
I'm digesting books, I'm havingyou know what, I'm saying Like,
I'm doing all these things.
(38:05):
But, man, some of thechallenges that I'm facing in my
community are very differentthan some of the challenges in
other communities, and that'snot to say I just want to be
clear about this that's not tosay there are people far from
God all over our city that needto be reached.
But as a leader, when you'rebuilding an organization,
(38:26):
there's just some differentchallenges that you're
overcoming in that urban contextthat's just truth.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
So how is the local church responding to this?
Um cause, I'm connected to Kingof Kings there in Omaha and and
you know those guys and I knowtheir hearts Like I'd, I'd like
to think that a lot of the maybenot inner city churches are
wanting to invest, you know, notjust with people, but resources
, into what you're doing atAbide.
Tell that story, josh.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, I would say one of the only reasons we've been
able to do what we do apart fromGod has been the investment of
other churches and Christians inour city.
One of our values is bettertogether, and that's something
that we really we talk about, welean into, we believe in, and
so over the years, we've beenfortunate.
(39:16):
The church is like King ofKings.
They've done everything fromhelped purchase and renovate
homes that we've turned intolighthouses in our neighborhood.
They've helped invest in campusprograms.
They've invested in leaders.
We've been fortunate tocollaborate with a lot of
churches over the years.
But I will say this Barnastudies show that post 2020,
(39:39):
churches and Christians are lessexcited to get involved in
justice issues in urban context,because you know in my mind,
the challenges that have alsocome with it.
I think, more than ever, withsome of the racial conversations
, even with some of thepolitical stuff around DEI, you
(40:00):
know, things became so politicalthat churches felt like they it
was almost a lose-losesituation whether they were
engaged, not engaged.
Should they speak up, shouldthey not speak up?
And so I also I would say up,should they not speak up?
And so I also I would say foundthat a lot of churches kind of
(40:21):
went neutral for the sake of theconversations that they've been
leading.
And so we have a lot of greatrelationships with a lot of
churches, pastors, leaders whoare doing a lot of great things.
I would say more than ever Irealized some of the challenges
that they're up against asleaders leading congregations.
I'll just share this one story.
I heard John Perkins I mentionedhis name earlier.
(40:44):
He was an African-American.
He is an African-Americanleader who started kind of the
Christian Community DevelopmentAssociation, worked in the inner
cities.
He tells a story of a church, amega church, that he was
working with this pastor and hewas trying to get this mega
church to partner with him, towork in his community.
And this goes back I don't knowif this was the seventies, I
(41:05):
mean this was years ago butultimately, as he was working
with this pastor, this megachurch pastor was having such a
hard time convincing his churchthat they should be engaged in
this inner city predominantlyblack context, this mega pastor
ended up taking his own life.
Oh my, and it just stood out tome in the sense of like I
(41:29):
understand there's realchallenges pastors face when it
comes to meeting the needs oftheir congregation versus
meeting some of the needs of thecity, and I think that's a
tension that a lot of pastorsyou know they live in that
tension and ultimately you leantowards your congregation
because that's the immediatecontext that you're called to.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Wow, you said a lot there.
I'm in a confessionalconservative Lutheran
congregation and I don't knowhow many Lutherans you've hung
out with, but we should be someof the and I don't know if best
is the right word but most opentoward caring for the other.
(42:16):
Because our theology at itsbest is like, filled with
mystery and tension, now and notyet.
Saint and sinner, theinbreaking of the kingdom of God
, here and now, but then thereturn of Christ.
And so the heart of theReformation some 500 years ago
was let's just get back to thebasics, by grace, through faith,
not by works, so that no onecan boast.
Ephesians 2, 8 through 9.
(42:37):
And now we're carrying out asChrist's workmanship, his love.
He's got work for us to do outin the community, not to prove
anything to God he couldn't loveus any more than he does right
now but to live out theinbreaking of the kingdom of God
as we're the hands and feet ofJesus, out into the community to
the least lost, alone and thevulnerable.
And let's just look at the lifeof Jesus.
So all that to say because I'mone of those larger church
(43:00):
pastors or whatever.
We just focus on Jesus, bro.
Let's just get to the story ofJesus.
Put yourself in the shoes ofthe Samaritan woman at the well
as she's, this outsider thatJesus brings near and reveals
everything in her life, and yetshe goes and is the first
evangelist.
Let's just tell what I've seenis like when we tell more of the
Jesus stories and awakenpeople's imagination and place
(43:23):
themselves there in thosestories.
Their heart for the other,wherever it is, always gets,
always gets open.
You know so, I don't.
You can't pin our churches downas right or left or blah.
You know this kind of thing, no, no, no, we're Jesus people and
there are so many words likeDEI or justice, and you kind of
just say that God is a God ofjustice between love and justice
(43:44):
.
Right, we should fear and loveGod.
Right.
And where there are brokenparts in our community, in us,
outside of us, god wants to useus to be his hands and feet to
bring wholeness, I guessindividually and systemically.
And I guess when you starttalking about systems, I'm a
systems guy.
We talk about the culture and Iwant to get into how you're
leading at Abide, like that'sgoing to be the second part of
(44:06):
our conversation here.
But we talk the systems ofinterconnected relationships.
You can't deny that humanbeings are built for
relationships and interconnectedrelationships that are very,
very messy.
That lead us, hopefully, tolook more and more like Jesus
and less and less like a dividedpolitical world in which we
(44:28):
find ourselves right now.
So yeah, I've wrestled withthat.
That breaks my heart, man, tothink of a pastor who would feel
so torn that he can't talkabout partnering with a group
like y'all or going into theinner city that he gosh, did he
take it?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
That's really, really sad, and I would say this a lot
of times too.
Talking about it is onechallenge, but then, at the end
of the day, we all only have somany resources to invest Well,
that's true and people andfinances, and so I think that's
where, I would say, more of thetension is.
The rubber meets the road.
But I would say this tooSystems like some of the systems
(45:05):
of segregation that have led towhere we are today.
You know, I love the story ofJesus and the woman at the well,
and he goes to Samaria and heinteracts with her, and there
was a whole system that heintercepted.
And we would say, systems arechanged one story at a time.
That's right, and that's whatJesus shows us.
But Jesus was intentional to goto Samaria or to go to where
(45:26):
that woman was.
And so sometimes, you know, forus, part of our job and our
work is to provide practicalopportunities for people to get
in the game, get next tobrokenness and start to have
those experiences.
You know, when the spiritualbecomes practical man, it's
powerful for those that areexperiencing it, and so we have
(45:46):
to, as leaders, I think,sometimes create practical
runways to get people involved,as we're preaching Jesus, as
we're giving them context, man,this is how you can put that
into practice, you know, on aconsistent basis.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Amen, amen.
Hey, let's last 15 minutes orso, man, let's talk just your
leadership at Abide.
Tell us the vision of Abide,kind of the team that you're
helping to oversee, because itreally is.
We're only as healthy as theteam of people that we bring
around us, right?
So tell that vision, tell aboutyour team and how do you hold
your team kind of accountable?
(46:19):
You got a complex thing goingon, man.
We just heard bits and piecesof it, but yeah, you carry,
you're spinning a lot of plates,you know in your role.
So, yeah, talk about yourvision and your team there, josh
.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Yeah, our vision, I would say as an organization,
there's twofold.
One of it, one side of it, isto see, we would say, every
person, experience and be onpurpose, experiencing the power
of purpose.
We think when Christians liveon mission, lives are changed.
And so one side of our workreally focuses on mobilizing the
church, empowering Christiansto understand and live on
(46:54):
purpose.
And then the other side of ourwork really looks to help every
person in this part of our cityhave every opportunity to reach
their full God-given potential.
And so it's really holisticdiscipleship and we focus on
three areas neighborhoods,children and youth programming
and then leadership development.
(47:15):
And so our neighborhoodstrategy is really about
infiltrating the neighborhoodsthat the police would consider
as the most challenging, themost violent, putting people in
those neighborhoods through whatwe call lighthouses, renovating
homes.
We've, over the course of thelast 16 years, we've renovated
49 lighthouses and empoweredpeople to live in those.
(47:38):
Over the next four years wewant to renovate and empower 50
new lighthouses with people inthem.
So we would have 99 lighthousesin these neighborhoods, uh, in
the next four years.
So in in neighborhoods, that'spart of our vision.
On the campus, so we purchasedwhat used to be called the
Nebraska school for the deaf inin the center of our urban
(47:58):
context.
It's 24 acres, um, you know, 11different buildings.
It was built like a mini smallcollege campus.
There's gymnasium, fitnesscenter, school, education center
, and so our dream is tocontinue to develop out spaces
on this campus to provideholistic discipleship and
(48:20):
programming for children, youthand families.
We partner with also given onthe season, about 18 different
organizations on campus to helpprovide some of that programming
and discipleship.
So that's kind of the vision onthe season about 18 different
organizations on campus to helpprovide some of that, some of
that programming anddiscipleship.
So that's kind of the vision onthe campus.
And leadership I mean we want toraise up world class leaders
from and for the world'schallenging, most challenging
(48:40):
communities, and so we reallywant to be known.
We know that leaders ultimatelylive in the neighborhoods.
Leaders lead the programs thatwe have on campus and in our
community, and so we have a hugepassion and bent to really be
the type of people who areraising up those types of
leaders.
And so we've got a small teamright now, a team of about 20.
(49:01):
In different seasons We've had,you know, more give or take.
We partner with a lot ofdifferent organizations in the
city and we're trying to be andbuild a world class organization
.
That's probably one of thethings that we're really
passionate about as anorganization is, you know, a lot
of times in communities likeours, you can get away with
(49:22):
being average or OK, or peopleare just happy that you're doing
something, being average orokay, or people are just happy
that you're doing something.
We don't want to just dosomething.
We want to change the narrative, we want to change the story,
we want to really empower peoplein our community, and so we try
to pursue this.
You know, level of ofworld-class, excellent culture
and, uh, we, we just believeJesus was the best leader who
(49:44):
ever lived, and we want todevelop more leaders that look
and act like him.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
What's your training look like for that?
What's the combination betweenlike apprenticeship and actual
like, maybe classroomexperiences Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (49:59):
So over the years it's taken on different forms.
There's certain conferences,like the Global Leadership
Summit.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
We've been very actively a part.
I knew you were into GLS.
We're GLS kind of fanatics here.
Yeah, we love it.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
So my first GLS was when I was in the sixth grade
have been very connected thereso we've been there personally.
My dad used to raise $60,000,take leaders from our community
there.
Today we host it on site.
We're hosting our firstleadership conference.
We've done smaller ones butkind of a larger leadership
conference here in May.
(50:31):
We've got leadership lunchesabout every other month.
We've got several books andleadership curriculum.
We're actually this year goingto officially start a leadership
school in the fall and so we'vehad internships, kind of
residencies.
But we really have a vision toreally create a school, a
multi-year school, where peopleare living, staying on site and
(50:52):
then, you know, either stayinghere and or going to other
communities around the world toserve the underserved.
And so we're doing more toformalize what we've done over
the years, just so we can createa larger pipeline and stream of
leaders that are coming through.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
What's your current budget?
I'm sorry to get into the weedshere, just curious what's your
current budget?
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah, depending on the year between operations and
capital, you know three to fivemillion, depending on how many
projects we're going after,depending on, you know, projects
on campus and or houses thatwe're renovating.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
What's the budget gap between what you need, what the
vision is going to require?
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Depends on the year.
But I mean we can go from200,000 to 400,000, depending on
the year.
But I would say, you know, interms of where we want to go?
Yeah, that's what I was asking.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
I'm more about like what is, what's the future look
like, and what's that dollaramount?
Dollar amount, yeah, I mean,it's probably an annual budget
of closer to 10 million.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
10, yeah, and that doesn't include capital
improvements, but that is moreof the operational budget, of
what it would look like movingforward hey.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
So our god owns it all.
Uh, he can do exceedingly morethan we ask, think or hope or
imagine.
Right, so there may be somebodylistening.
That's like I want to see cityrevitalization in Omaha that
could be a model that leadstoward inner city revitalization
in other urban centers.
Like someone could write acheck right now for $10, $20,
(52:22):
$30 million, right.
So there could be billionairesthat are listening to this, that
want to have some kind ofsignificance.
There's a lot of billionairesin our world today and man, if
the Lord captures their heart,the amount of kingdom impact and
partnership with local churchesand with nonprofits like Abide
it is exponential I've heard.
I just want to commend you, man,the work that you're doing,
(52:43):
your labor of love,multi-generational.
I can only imagine because I'ma guy with big dreams here to
see multi-sites leadershipdevelopment that changes local
churches, view of where leaderscome from.
I'm way into localcross-cultural leaders,
indigenous leaders being raisedup.
We got a lot of things thatwe're overlapping with.
(53:03):
I do know that when you havebig, big dreams like that, you
can, and I believe God puts thatin people.
There can be points, maybe lastquestion or there can be points
and you're like what, god,why'd you do that to me?
Like this is a cross, this ishard right, maybe even a sense
(53:24):
of the imposter syndrome.
I talked to different leadersthat are like, oh man, I don't
even know that I can sustain thelevel of energy that it's going
to be necessary to see thisthing happen.
This is the way I've kind of, Iguess, wrestled with it and
come to peace with.
What God has done to me is thatI don't have to see all the
results right now.
I just got to be faithful oneday into the next day, pouring
(53:48):
into people who are, who willpour into people, and God will
take care of the results and Idon't need to.
It's probably the results ofwhat God does is probably going
to happen long after I'm withthe Lord, you know, in paradise
with Jesus, like, so I don'tneed, I've surrendered.
I guess the desire to seeeverything's got to be changed,
like right now it's like, oh,it's a long game guess the
desire to see everything's gotto be changed, like right now.
It's like oh, it's a long game,god's been in the long game with
(54:09):
me and with all of a brokencreation and so just be faithful
in your season.
Is that kind of the way you'reposturing your heart, josh?
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Well, I would say, Tim, you're a much better man
than I am.
Uh, I know that intellectually,but sometimes that's really
hard in the sense of I want tosee certain things happen.
I always tell people, man, Iwant to be 10 years ahead of
where we are, and, uh, so thatmakes you a leader.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
That's normal dude Like that's just the wrestle
that just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
I was going to say I definitely wrestle with that
tension all the time of wantingto be farther ahead but also
recognizing man, my job is to befaithful.
I remember when we purchasedthis campus.
You know, a lot of people saidthis campus was too big for our
organization back then, and sowe purchased it and God provided
the resources for us to get it,but then it had a lot of
(54:55):
challenges and almost everyboard meeting the board members
were saying man, you got to getrid of that thing.
And it was just.
It was a time of wrestlingbetween God, man.
I felt like this was the visionyou called us into, but it
doesn't seem to be working outand it felt like the blessing
had become a burden.
And so there's been all thesepeaks and valleys, highs and
lows, but in the end you know,whether it's this campus,
(55:18):
whether it's other things,they're also a monument of God's
grace, his goodness, hisfaithfulness, and that, as in
first Corinthians, like I readrecently, god uses the foolish
things, the shame, the wise, andso, just recognizing man, God
does things that we could neverimagine and I've got to continue
to lean into what he's sayingand doing, and not all the time
(55:41):
what I'm wanting or what otherpeople are saying and doing.
So that's been a part of ourjourney over the years.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Josh, this has been so much fun.
Man, you're a gift.
I can't wait to meet yousomeday in person.
Thank you for the generosity oftime and I'm going to be
praying for Abide, you and yourleadership and your vision to
see city transformation in Omahaand the ripple effect that it
could have beyond Omaha.
People want to connect to Abideand you personally.
How can they do so that it?
Speaker 1 (56:07):
could have beyond Omaha.
People want to connect to Abideand you personally.
How can they do so?
Yeah, they can check outAbideOmahaorg as our website,
social media channels AbideOmaha too, and my social media
channels Josh Doetzler andjoshdoetzlercom.
So any of those, tim?
Thanks for having me, bro.
It was really good connectingwith you, meeting you.
Hopefully we get to connect inperson sometime and keep up the
great work.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Likewise.
Well, I'm sorry for messing.
I always mess up people's lastnames and that's a frustrating
thing.
All right, dotzler, next timeI'm going to nail it.
Anyway, this is a joy.
It's a good day.
Go make it a great day.
We'll be back with anotherepisode of the Tim Allman
podcast next week.
Jesus loves you.
Let's go on mission to make himknown in our respective cities
and neighborhoods.
God bless.
Thanks, josh Yep.
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