I do ministry in a denomination that struggles to engage college students and young adults. If you’re listening and you’re an LCMS Lutheran I pray you have an open heart to the Hope Church story. We have much to learn from our brothers and sisters in other Christian faith traditions. PLUS, I have come to know and highly respect my guest Brian as a partner in spreading the Gospel in the valley and beyond over the past 10 years.
Discover how to ignite a transformative fire in the hearts of college students and young adults with Brian Smith Sr., the inspiring leader of the Hope Church Movement. We're not just talking about a Sunday meet-up; we're talking about a revolution in the American Christian Church that begins with our future leaders on college campuses. Brian and I share a vision of these vibrant individuals as recruitable, trainable, and sendable forces, capable of carrying the torch of faith to new frontiers. This eye-opening dialogue examines the critical gap in biblical understanding and the potential for a new reformation sparked by the same Holy Spirit fire that fueled the early church's expansion.
We then navigate the intriguing intersection of discipleship and leadership, confronting a common myth: that today's college students are indifferent to the gospel. The reality? They're open and receptive, as proven by the success of campus outreach programs. We dissect the journey from fresh converts to disciples who multiply, revealing the heart of true leadership as servanthood. Every listener is called upon, regardless of their ordained status, to embrace personal evangelism as a duty to actively share God's word and cultivate spiritual growth among our youth.
As we wrap up, we explore how EPIC experiences—those that are Experiential, Participatory, Image-rich, and Connected—forge unforgettable and transformative encounters for young adults. Laughter, joy, and authentic community become our allies in this mission. We close with a stirring call to action: to equip and inspire a generation to spread the gospel with an authentic zeal. Join us as we share anecdotes, historical parallels, and practical steps to engage and empower those called to this vibrant mission field.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the brand new American
Reformation podcast.
We long to see the widerAmerican Christian church fall
more in love with Jesus bylearning from the practices of
the early church and other erasof discipleship multiplication.
We want to hear from you, makesure you comment and leave a
review, wherever you're watchingor listening, to tell us what
God is doing in your life or howyou feel about today's
(00:25):
conversation.
Lord, have your way in us.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast,
tim Allman.
Here I get the privilege ofbeing a part of the Unite
Leadership Collective.
I'm a pastor at ChristGreenfield and I'm honored to be
a part of the conversation inthe Lutheran Church Missouri
Synod, a denomination that oneof our recent podcasts on Lead
Time with a former president ofour synod talked about the rapid
(00:55):
decline and some of the reasonsfor the rapid decline in our
denomination.
I'm doing this podcast today,and really all of them, to pray
for a new day, that the sameHoly Spirit that lit a flame and
sparked growth on thatPentecost day this is being
released around Pentecost wouldgive fire to those of us in our
tribe and we've got a lot tolearn, especially as we engage
(01:19):
college students and youngadults.
And so if you're listening andyou're an LCMS Lutheran, I pray
you have an open heart to theHope Church story.
Now we have much to learn fromour brothers and sisters and
other Christian faith traditions.
Plus, I have come to know andhighly respect my guest as a
friend and partner in the gospelin the Phoenix Valley and
beyond, as their church movementhas boomed by the grace of God
(01:41):
over the past 10 years.
I want to introduce you toBrian Smith Sr.
He is the founding pastor ofHope Church Movement, a
collegiate-focused churchplanning movement reaching now
this is amazing 24 collegecampuses all across the
Southwest.
Praise God.
For over 35 years, brian hashelped students find and follow
Jesus, walk in freedom and liveon mission.
(02:02):
In the name of Jesus, brian andhis wife Wendy.
She's sweet man, this guy.
He married way up.
She's a real deal, yes, she is.
They live in Mesa, arizona,have three adult sons, two
daughter-in-laws, three great,great granddaughters not great,
just granddaughters threegranddaughters and a golden
doodle named Kabob man.
That sounds like Kabob.
Am I saying that right?
(02:23):
How did you come up with kebab?
Kaibab, okay, well, how'd youcome up with Kaibab?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Kaibab.
You got me saying, bob, it'sKaibab, it's the Kaibab Trail.
She was born on the day I didthe rim to rim hike.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Oh, good for you.
I should have known.
Yeah, I've never done that.
Someday, someday I've done,I've done down and out, but not
rim to rim.
So so much fun.
Hey, brian, before we get intothis, how are you doing, man?
You feeling good, feeling great.
Thanks for having me on.
This is going to be fun.
So a standard question on thispodcast how are you praying for
reformation in the AmericanChristian Church, brian?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well, before I get into that, just thanks for
having me.
Pastor Tim and you know whatyou guys are doing great work at
Christ Greenfield.
I just got to say this to allyour listeners and watchers.
However, this is being produced.
I was at my dermatologistappointment about a year ago and
he's telling me about how muchhis son loves this school he
goes to and I go.
What school is that?
He said Christ GreenfieldLutheran School, and I'm like
(03:19):
that's my bro.
He's doing great work.
So thanks for your ecumenicalheart, your salt and light in
this city.
It's an honor to be aco-laborer with you here in
Phoenix, yeah the joy is mine.
Here's what I'm praying aboutand I guess, by way of
introduction, I'm not aphilosopher, tim.
I'm not a theologian, I'm not ascholar.
(03:42):
I just consider myself apractitioner who's been
clarifying the gospel on collegecampuses for over three decades
, and so I'm believing forreformation and how the church
really views the next generationon college campuses.
You know, everybody knows thatcollege students want to stand
for something right.
I mean, look at the influencein our country right now with
(04:03):
all the all the stuff, protestsand everything going on.
But unfortunately, I don'tthink we're seeing the college
campus accurately.
For example, when I say thephrase mission field, I ask
people what do you think of?
And most people think of anunreached people group in a
third world country.
Those are definitely legitimatemission fields that need to be
reached, are definitelylegitimate mission fields that
(04:25):
need to be reached.
But at Hope Church Movement, webelieve that the most
overlooked strategic missionfield in the world is right in
our own backyard the 20 millioncollege students of America.
So college students are themost recruitable, trainable and
sendable people in the world.
I remember this has reallyimpacted me this quote from
Martin Luther when he said thathe was afraid that universities
(04:46):
would prove to be the gates ofhell unless we diligently labor
in explaining the HolyScriptures.
So it's like he was kind ofsaying whatever you do, don't
forget about it, don't overlookcollege students.
I think he was prophetic.
We've interviewed, as aministry, 360,000 college
students on 60 campuses acrossAmerica.
(05:08):
Here's what we've discoveredthat 96% of college students
don't have a biblicalunderstanding of how to have a
relationship with Jesus.
The Barna Group discovered thesame thing in their research a
few years ago.
They said that college studentsin America are an unreached
people group and that only 4%are biblically literate.
So unfortunately, the church atlarge has really lost the
(05:30):
importance of reaching the nextgeneration, especially college
freshmen.
So when we talk about changingthe world and changing culture,
the reality is, if we want to dothat, we got to change the
college campuses, because that'sreally where the future leaders
of our nation are at.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's what I'm praying for Dude, it's so good.
And I think the narrative todayis college kids.
I mean, in light of this istimestamp 2024, Palestinian,
Israeli, kind of stuff, and it'sjust so negative.
And then you've got a lot offolks that say, well, they're
all being indoctrinated and thesecular pay, you know all this
(06:09):
kind of stuff.
Hey, what's new?
Man?
Satan is having a heyday.
He's always.
He's always, you know, roaringaround like a roaring lion
seeking someone to devour.
So we shouldn't be surprised.
So does the church just kind ofsay, well, yeah, university is
awful, these kids these days.
Or do we say, let's get, let'sget after it, let's go love them
(06:30):
, let's go find them?
You know, and and to do so, you, you have been so, so creative
in the way you've engagedcollege students.
You've met them where they'reat, You've recognized their felt
needs and you've cast visionfor them being a part of
something huge, which is themission of Jesus, his desire,
the kingdom of God, God's desireto get all of his kids back,
all of his kids back.
Why would he go over ageneration of kids that are in
(06:52):
college?
There's no way he would.
And you're answering that callright now.
So tell us about the HopeChurch movement a little bit
Brian.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So thanks, by the way , that was such a compliment.
I appreciate that.
Hope is a non-denominational,collegiate focused church
planting movement which is kindof an anomaly in the body of
Christ.
There are some other collegiatefocused church movements around
the country that I've actuallybuilt on the shoulders of some
great men Salt Company out ofIowa, grace Point, which is now
(07:22):
Acts 2, that started at UCBerkeley, resonate Church
Movement in Washington State andthe Collegiate Church Network
that started in the Midwest.
But in many ways, like I said,we're kind of an anomaly because
we're not a community churchwith a college outreach or
college service.
We're a collegiate-focusedchurch.
We believe that we're called tofill the Great Commission on
(07:45):
college campuses and theirsurrounding cities.
So we have people of all agesand stages of life in our church
because we really think that ittakes all generations to reach
the next generation.
And one of the things we dothrough the Campus Changer
Network, which we started fiveyears ago, is we help community
churches reach universities incities near them.
(08:05):
We're working with a church inColorado, one in Nebraska, one
in Florida and, of all places,tim one in Ireland.
So a little bit about ourdemographics.
60% of our church members weresaved through our ministry.
55% of our attendance onSundays are guests and a
majority are college students.
Many aren't Christians.
(08:25):
They're de-churched, unchurchedor unfamiliar with the gospel.
We believe college students arecalled the lead in the local
church, so we really have builtleadership pipelines.
We have 340 students andgraduates on our leadership team
.
Eighty-seven percent of ourchurch is under 30 years old and
we have 113 staff and internsin church planting residence.
(08:46):
So our leadership team, withall that concentration, leads
950 Bible studies across all ofour campuses every month, and so
we're definitely just aposition to reach a lot of
people.
We're basically missionaries tothe college campus and we're
excited to be expanding to Texas.
Next school year.
We're sending a team to reach90,000 students at UT, austin
(09:09):
and Texas State University.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
You started out saying I'm not a philosopher,
theologian, you are a theologian.
You've studied the word of God,don't sell yourself short.
But more than that, you'vestudied the way of Jesus and the
release of Jesus.
We got if you hear a bell inthe background, we got chapel
starting right now Kids arecoming to hear about Jesus.
It's so, so good.
But you've got this leadershipdevelopment pathway pipeline.
(09:37):
Whatever you want to say that anumber of young people give me
and this is kind of going off alittle bit, but give me like I
know your kids have beeninvolved in this a little bit.
But give me like I know yourkids have been involved in this,
and so what does that look like?
A little bit more of how youraise people up and send them in
.
They're doing Bible studies, etcetera, but what is the
intention around the training?
I'd love to just hear just alittle bit about that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Well, we'd have to dive in a bunch here, but just
quickly, we really make adistinction.
That leadership is aboutservice right, and so you know
the greatest leader is a servantand that discipleship is about
obedience to the last thing Godtold us to do.
So we're really makingdisciples and we're raising up
(10:20):
leaders.
But here, have you ever noticedthis?
In the body of Christ it'spossible, and this has been in
our church as well it's possibleto be a leader but not really
be a disciple.
So we are really more concernedabout, are you a disciple?
So we have a discipleshippathway that we've discovered or
developed really developed withsome other help from people
(10:41):
that takes them from the pointof decision for Christ all the
way to a multiplying disciple.
Then we also have a leadershipladder that we do, taking them
from a friend all the way to achurch planter.
So we emphasize discipleshipand along the way we give them
opportunities to lead and whenthey're faithful we just kind of
raise them up to the next level.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's great.
That's it.
It's so good.
So what is?
Let's get detailed about thekids on campuses today.
What is one thing that theaverage adult Christian does not
understand about collegestudents, college kids in 2024?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, I mentioned a little bit earlier, we've
engaged about 360,000 studentson 60 campuses and 96% of
students don't know the gospel.
But here's the good news Onevery campus we go to, 30 to 40%
of college students areinterested in learning more
about the gospel.
So what people don't know isthe fish are still biting.
(11:38):
Throw away your postmodernbooks.
Throw away the lies that peoplehave changed so much.
Listen, people have changed,but not their heart, and when
people love them and tell themthe truth, they're getting saved
at the same rate.
They were 35 years ago when Istarted.
So that's my survey over 35years and, by the way, it's been
the best year of ministry yet.
(11:58):
Our team engaged about 50,000new students, led 6,500 Bible
studies.
We had 2,000 gospelappointments, tim, which are
where we sit down, ask someonetheir story, tell them our story
and share the gospel story.
We had 2,000 gospelappointments and prayed with 700
people to surrender their livesto Jesus.
(12:18):
So every day, the classes werein session, bro.
This year, four people decidedto follow Jesus every single day
.
And so here's an amazing thingit took us 14 years to see a
thousand students surrendertheir lives to Jesus.
It took another four years tosee our second thousand, and in
the last year we've seen closeto 700 get saved.
(12:40):
So that's on 24 campuses thatwe're reaching, and so a lot of
people think Jesus.
You know that the Jesus movementthat we've been hearing about
they made a movie about startedone day when the Holy Spirit
just like fell and everybodythousands of hippies started
getting saved and stuff.
Well, it was definitely a workof the Holy Spirit.
(13:01):
But what really happened?
As I've talked to friends ofmine that were there one in
particular, pastor Mark Buckleyhe said that one person started
following Jesus and that personwent and got their friends and
shared the story of whathappened to them.
Those friends told theirfriends it kept going, kept
growing.
So I just want people to stoplistening to people who say that
nobody in this generation wantsto hear about Jesus.
(13:23):
It's just not true.
People are responding to gospelat the same rate they were 35
years ago.
We just got to go tell ourstories and start fishing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yes.
What's so good about that?
There's so many things.
There's hope there.
For those of us that kind oflive with a pessimistic.
You know, as you get older as afollower of Jesus, it's really
easy to look at the world andget grumpy.
Brian, you're growing up intoJesus and we have the hope of
(13:54):
the resurrection when he returnsand we have the call to make
disciples.
Who make disciples today.
It really, as I hear your story, I mean it's not simple
disciples today.
It really, as I hear your story, I mean it's not simple.
It takes effort and intentionand the work of the Holy Spirit
and trust and time, but theflywheel effect takes place and
we can see a new flywheel effecttake place in a number of
(14:16):
different denominations andmovements within the American
Christian church.
And that's what I'm, that'swhat I'm praying for.
This is so.
I come from a Lutheranbackground, brian, and one of
our primary focuses of doctrineis is passive faith?
All right, so you do nothing tomake yourself right before God.
You don't choose him, hechooses you Right.
(14:39):
So there's this passivity, butfor us as as Lutherans, a lot of
times we can end up thispassivity.
But for us as Lutherans, a lotof times we can end up well, I
don't do anything anyways.
So, like telling folks thegospel, well, it's the Holy
Spirit's work, so we'll see.
And no plant the seed, god'sthe one that's going to make it
grow.
For sure, I preached, apollosWatered, but God gave the growth
(15:02):
.
There was still proclamationthat took place.
So, yeah, we wouldn't usenecessarily word, all these
decisions for Jesus.
What we would say is all ofthese students got baptized.
All of these students and Iknow that's a major part of your
like, they're yes, do you wantto be baptized?
Have you heard the word of Godand responded to the word of God
in faith?
Here's the water.
Let's go.
The Ethiopian eunuch that'swhat we need today More and more
(15:25):
.
But Philip is carried along bythe Holy Spirit.
It comes upon a guy.
How can I understand this wordunless someone explains it to me
?
Could we have a movement ofproclaimers?
This is just faithful to theword of God and for us in our
tribe there are some who believepastors are the only ones, the
ordained ones are the only oneswho are the proclaimers.
Give me a break.
What are we talking about here?
(15:46):
This is ridiculous.
There were so many women andmen who were on fire for the
Lord, and they were not allcalled to be the ordained.
No, they were just people who'dbeen baptized, claimed by the
gospel of Jesus, and they couldnot help but proclaim the one
who'd called them out ofdarkness into a marvelous light.
You get me going, man.
(16:14):
We need to learn from movementslike yours and there needs to
be an open-handed release of thetitles.
And who can do what when, nah,you're just training up the
willing, working with thewilling, and, as the Holy Spirit
gives kind of affirmation,you're saying here's your next
step, leader, here's your nextstep.
And, oh, and, if you miss ondiscipleship, if you miss and
when I hear discipleship I hearthe character of Christ If you
miss on the character of Christ,the humility of Christ, the
fruit of the spirit being shownin your life, you're going to
(16:34):
miss on absolutely everything,everything else.
So that's where it starts.
And then here am I send me andwe'll see.
We'll see what.
We'll go on this divineadventure and see what the Lord
wants to do.
That's a compelling vision, Ibelieve for for a lot of young
people today.
A life filled with notdepression and despair or lack,
but they got ample meaning andpurpose centered in in the
Missio Dei, the mission of God.
(16:55):
Yeah, ok, any response to that?
I'm sorry, going off.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I think we need more baptisms, but not more eunuchs.
That's how I would respond.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Facts.
Okay, that's a classic BrianSmith response.
We can agree on that, to besure.
All right, one of the biggestissues for college students
today is loneliness.
Does anybody see me, love me,care for me?
I loved your book Winning theBattle to Belong.
What are college freshmeninitially looking for when they
come to college?
It's a great question, you knowme.
I loved your book Winning theBattle to Belong.
What are college freshmeninitially looking for when they
(17:26):
come to college?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
It's a great question .
You know.
Over the years, tim, especiallythe last five years or so,
other pastors and ministryleaders have kind of been saying
would you just write down someof the things you guys are doing
?
I was a little bit reluctant,but finally did it.
And so let me start by sharingsome of my story.
When I first got to campus 40years ago don't tell anybody,
(17:51):
tim 40 years ago, in 1983, myparents were focused on how I
behaved.
Get this.
Most of the campus ministriesat the tables I walked by were
focused on what I believed.
But there were two guys whowere different, because they
were focused on what I wasreally thinking about, which was
(18:11):
where do I belong?
Those two guys were some of thebest evangelists I've ever met,
but they weren't campusmissionaries, they were members
of a college fraternity.
So here's what happened Withinthree days of moving into my
residence hall, these two guysknocked on my door.
They knew my name.
They knew that I went to BrophyHigh School and I played
varsity basketball.
They were there to recruit me.
(18:31):
They had done their homework.
They knew my name, man.
That alone I was like what.
They invited me to a party and Iwent to this party.
It was unlike I'd ever been to,and instantly I felt like I
belong.
So my first three days set mycourse for the next three years,
away from God.
You see, it was that firstweekend, first 72 hours, that I
(18:52):
threw out what I believed.
I behaved in ways that I neverthought I would all because I
desperately wanted to belong.
In fact, one of the primaryreasons that 70% of students
raised in the church throw outwhat they believe in college is
because they're in a battle.
It's called the battle tobelong, and whoever wins that
battle wins them.
So it's not, you know, it's notjust us saying that, though.
(19:14):
Social scientists are writingabout belonging more than ever
before.
Even universities are creatingnew positions called the Dean of
Belonging Harvard, purdue,pepperdine it's happening all
over.
So at Hope, we define thebattle to belong as the internal
crisis that students experiencewhen they leave.
Family and friends arrive oncampus for the first time and
(19:35):
are desperate for connection.
So I believe winning the battleto belong is a key ingredient
to reaching college students,because many times on college
campuses, winning the battle tobelong precedes and paves the
way to winning the battle tobelieve in Jesus.
In other words, we've got tohelp students belong even before
they believe.
Does that make sense?
(19:56):
It does, I mean.
So I'm not saying studentscan't believe in Jesus before
they belong to a Christiancommunity, but in my experience
it's not the norm.
And, by the way, in the Gospelswe see that Jesus engaged in
both the battle to belong andthe battle to believe.
In John, chapter one, he wasall starting his ministry.
Andrew and John were followinghim and Jesus asked what do you
(20:17):
want?
And he said where are youstaying?
And he said come and see.
That was the first recordedinvitation from Jesus in the New
Testament.
See, that was the first recordedinvitation from Jesus in the
New Testament.
It's like he was saying youknow, amen, you know, you just
come and hang out with me, let'sgo do this, let's do life,
let's hang.
And so then, two years later,he said come, and after come and
see.
(20:37):
He said come and die.
And that was when he revealedhimself as the Christ.
That says right.
Philippi invited them to takeup their cross and follow him.
So think about that.
Two years after he invited themto come and see, he invited
them to come and die.
So I submit for us on collegecampuses come and see is about
winning the battle to belong andcome and die is about winning
the battle to believe.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's so, so good.
A lot of times in our tribe wethink very, very small and again
it goes back to I don't want toget in, it's not my work.
You know, you're going to makedisciples of all nations.
Jesus cast a pretty big visionRight and the Apostle Paul lived
into that and the otherapostles.
So big is not bad.
(21:20):
We should dream big.
What would you say to someonewho says your events are overly
attractional and you're sellingout on sharing the gospel?
What would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
person.
Wow, I would say thank you foryour feedback.
Come and see, come and join us.
Yeah, you know we.
We don't do events just to bebig.
All of our events are designedto lead to authentic
relationships where we canclarify the gospel.
For example, we had 2,000 atour last Survivor Weekend event
(21:52):
and we had almost 2,000 personalgospel appointments throughout
the year.
So sitting down with someone andasking them their story,
sharing the gospel story withthem, is really, I found, much
more effective than even doing acrusade where a bunch of people
raise their hand or comeforward.
But I'm glad you brought upthat question because in order
to reach college students, wefirst have to understand that
(22:16):
there's a stigma aboutChristians on campus, and the
stigma is that Christians arenot interesting, not relevant,
not fashionable, not funny, notintelligent.
In other words, christians arejust not.
In fact, a recent statisticfrom Barna says that 84% of
unbelievers in their late teensand 20s have a negative
(22:36):
impression of Christianity and,whether we want to admit it or
not, we as Christians havesomething to do with that.
Now, there are other factorsthat contribute to the stigma.
There's a spiritual enemy, butif we're really honest,
sometimes as Christians we'vepromoted the stigma ourselves in
the way we present ourselves,the events, we produce those
kind of things.
(22:56):
So if we want to win the battleto belong which is what we call
that crisis, when students stepfoot on campus for the first
time, away from family andfriends, and they want to belong
so bad, they want to connectwith people so bad that we got
to stop doing things as thechurch that promote the stigma
and start doing things thatbreak the stigma.
So I'd hope we do things.
(23:18):
We do things through impactevents and which, from a
military perspective, is likebombs in the air, and then we
also do things throughrelationship, relationships,
authentic relationships.
We're kind of like boots on theair, and then we also do things
through relationships,authentic relationships, where
it kind of like boots on theground.
So I like to say that asChristians, we should be the
most fun-loving, life-giving,engaging people around, and if
(23:39):
we're serious about reachingcollege students, the church
should have the most excellentepic impact events because we
serve the living God who createdthe universe and Tim rose from
the dead.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
So the question.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Here's what's really bothered me for decades.
Why are so many otherorganizations better at
recruiting college students inthe church of the living God?
That's why we're committed tobreaking the stigma and being
better than the world atreaching college students.
That's why we do our epicimpact events.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So good.
So what other organizationswould you give as like just
these people are?
They're outside the church butthey're just killing it in terms
of engagement of kids?
Can you give us an example ortwo?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Sure, Fraternities, athletics, credit card companies
, you know, recruiting.
The college campus is arecruitment center and we as a
church have been pretty lame forthe most part, and and so and
this hit me years ago when Irealized, man, there's things I
(24:42):
don't even want to go to thatChristians are putting on
because it's so lame.
And then I had to.
When I became a pastor, I'mlike what kind of stuff am I
going to put on?
It's like Christian movies.
Some of them are good, but mostof them are kind of like ah,
it's a little bit different thanwhy can't we get better?
Why can't we do theMichelangelo artwork where
everybody comes and wants tolook at it, as opposed to?
(25:04):
I know where this is headed.
There's going to be conversionscene two thirds of the way
through.
I mean, it's just everything,come on.
So we do pre evangelism withour events for the most part
that's so good, man, we'recommitted.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We're committed right alongside you to having epic,
and I'm not afraid of the wordattractional.
Jesus was attractive.
The crowds were attracted toJesus.
The cross was not attractive,let's be honest.
Right, everybody fell away fromJesus.
But the resurrection, holySpirit, inspired reality of this
new life, the new kingdom.
The king is on the throne.
So there's going to besuffering, there's going to be
(25:39):
trial.
We're not getting.
This isn't a, for us, atheology of glory which says
come and follow Jesus in all ofyour life and all of your
struggles.
We're going to know it's real,it's raw, it's messy.
We're committed to tellingbetter stories about the God who
steps into the mess with us.
(26:01):
Anything more to add to that,brian?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, his ministry, Andrew and John, come and see
where I live.
Come and see Some theologiansthink two years later is when he
said come and die, take up yourcross and follow me at Caesarea
Philippi.
So what did he do in themeantime?
He lived with them, he hadadventures, he ate with them.
So we're going hey, the fallsemester when freshmen show up,
we're saying come and see.
And then throughout the fall webegin to bring the gospel to
bear that, hey, you got to takeup your cross if you really want
(26:31):
to follow Jesus.
But come on, man, a littlesugar helps the medicine go down
.
I mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, that's what Survivor Weekend is, bro.
I mean, you've talked about ita couple times.
Take us deeper and tell usabout Survivor Weekend and the
impact that it's had.
It's so, so good.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Survivor Weekend and the impact that it's had.
It's so, so good.
Thanks, bro.
So Survivor Weekend is ourpremier event.
We put it on the beginning ofeach fall semester, a couple of
weeks into the year, and eventhough our church puts it on, we
tell everybody it is not achurch camp, it's an adventure
weekend and that's some studentssay it's the best weekend
they've had in their collegecareer.
So we all travel to 160 acrecamp to compete.
(27:10):
There's all these tribes that weform.
We tell people choose yourtribe before your trail.
So they get on tribes, facepaint champs, the whole thing
based on their campuses, theirareas on campus.
They have a weekend of fun withno regrets, and so they're on a
tribe and I kind of like to sayit's a mixture of survivor.
They're on a tribe and I kindof like to say it's a mixture of
(27:31):
survivor, tough mutter, with anEDM concert thrown in.
And so last year was ourbiggest survivor weekend event.
There were 10,000 meals served,8,000 volunteer hours, 2,000
students and volunteersregistered, 330 tents were
filled with six students eachand 22 college campuses were
involved.
So here's a cool statistic that70% of the students who attend
(27:53):
Survivor eventually come tochurch or connect groups.
So it's an effort to connectwith people and bring them into
our culture, our community, withthe hope that we could then
share the gospel with them.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
So with that, check out this video from Survivor
Weekend.
This is going to blow your mind.
Take a look.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
When I was first joining Survivor, my friend sent
me the video to give me an ideaof what it was, and as soon as
I watched it I was like I'm sold.
I'm so here, and everythingthat you see in the video is
exactly what you would see inSurvivor.
The only thing that's differentis you actually get to feel it.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Personally, I've been trying to keep to myself more
as I kind of go through college,just because trying to find my
people has been franklyexhausting, whether or not, like
you're a go-getter orcharismatic or whatever, being
out here chanting for the samepeople, you're going to find
your tribe.
It's like a whole family andit's because, like most of the
(29:09):
people in my tribe, I met noteven like less than a week ago
and like we're already likefamily.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Well, I've already found my people, like I know for
a fact that the people I've met, especially people who go to my
school, I am gonna have thesefriends throughout the year and
I'm gonna have these faces oncampus, and so just knowing that
they have my back already isjust such a great way to start
the year and I'm just soencouraged going into the school
year about it because of therelationships I've already built
.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Being with like a bunch of guys.
I didn't know who they were.
They were just strangers acouple days ago and now it feels
like they're my brothers.
It's honestly insane.
It's a great way to makefriends and a great way to just
talk to people.
Anyone who would even considerbeing on the fence about it
should definitely do it, becausethey won't regret it.
(29:57):
I could promise you that allright, that's so exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
um, you quote tim elmore EPIC formula for engaging
young adults.
Brian Please and EPIC is anacronym Please walk us through
what EPIC looks like in youngadult engagement.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
You've got Tim Elmore , the CEO of Growing Leaders,
research students in thisgeneration.
He describes them as an EPICgeneration.
Epic is E, which stands forexperiential, in other words,
they're looking for memorableexperiences.
P stands for participatory,meaning they want to be part of
something bigger than themselves.
I stands for image rich,meaning they're very visual.
(30:39):
And then C stands for connected, meaning the more we can stop
lecturing them and startconnecting with them, the better
.
So the bottom line on everycollege campus is that every
student wants to have fun andmakes friends fast, and if we as
the church don't have somethingepic that we're excited to
invite them to, we're justgetting into the stigma.
So over the last 20 years ourmovement has produced impact
(31:03):
events like comedy shows,fashion shows we called it Sun
Devils Wear Prada at first itwas epic Pink to Purpose events,
where former Victoria's Secretmodel comes and shares her story
of leaving the industry tofollow Jesus.
We have men's events, wherehundreds of men come together to
talk about biblical manhood aswe camp, compete and Tim most
(31:23):
importantly consume largeamounts of meat.
And we do all that, all that'sto capture the hearts and minds
of college students, giving theman opportunity to connect with
our community and compel them toexplore their faith, that we
want them to say man, what is itabout these people?
We want to find out what theybelieve, because there's
something different.
That's our goal.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
So I'm curious from a historical perspective and you
may or may not know this, butyou've been in this industry for
quite a while, this ministryfor quite a while has the Epic
formula changed?
Was like say, go back ageneration or two, go back to
the Jesus movement days of the70s.
Would we use the same acronymfor young adults?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I think so.
As far as my experience, wecouldn't put it that tight back
then.
There's so much great contentin the world in the kingdom
right now, but when I think backto, we did a talent show about
25 years ago where we haddifferent students.
It was kind of like America'sGot Talent might be University
(32:26):
of Arizona's Got Talent.
By the way, that's my almamater Wildcat Country, wildcat
Country baby, you're kind ofconflicted.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I mean you work at ASU, yeah, yeah anyway, so I
gotta pause right there.
When ASU plays U of A, who doyou go for?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
well, I cheer out loud for ASU, but in my heart in
your heart?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
yeah, I am, I have to admit.
But no, I go Sunday and go goWildcats ASU.
But in my heart I'm In yourheart.
Yeah, I am double-minded, Ihave to admit.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I have to repent.
But no, I get up on.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Sunday and go go Wildcats, and you guys need to
repent for judging mascots Comeon, we're the body of Christ.
Anyway.
So, you know, I think that theepic like we did this talent
show and we had students doingall different kinds of stuff
comedy skits and we had studentsdoing all different kinds of
stuff comedy skits, jump rope,all kinds of we literally packed
(33:17):
an auditorium 25 years ago andwe had like one fifth the work
to get people there and then weconnected with them and started
doing relationship with them.
I think it's all the way backto feeding the 5,000, man.
It's worked ever since Jesusdid it.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yes, so good, so experiential, participatory
image, rich and connected.
We've laughed.
We've laughed a lot.
Kids love to laugh.
I'm coaching high schoolfootball right now Gilbert,
christian, go Knights and havingso much fun and the more we can
laugh with the freshman tosenior, it doesn't change much.
You head to high school, kidsjust want to have a good time.
(33:53):
You talk a lot about the powerof laughter connected to faith
and there's a lot of brainresearch which talks about
laughter, actually the joycomponent moving us to
thoughtful, creative,peace-filled, future-focused
thoughts.
Right, and the power oflaughter is so, so huge
connected to faith.
I think a lot of times we lookat Jesus and we think Jesus is
just a stoic guy.
You know he doesn't laugh much,he doesn't engage much.
I love how the chosen is kindof debunking what I believe is a
(34:17):
myth.
I think Jesus is very humorousIf you can read how he and get
yourself into the mindset andthe body and the face of.
We don't talk about the face ofChrist much, but I think a lot
of times he's got a HarrisonFord schmirk when he's giving it
to the Pharisees Like, did youhear that one?
(34:38):
You know.
So I think Jesus loved to havea good time.
Our father is a father oflaughter.
He smiles over his kids, sotalk about the power of laughter
connected to faith.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
You bet Look into the camera though, Tim, because I
actually think you look a lotlike Jesus did.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
And especially with your beard, and so I'm working
on that bad boy.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I see your face, I don't know.
Anyway so.
Proverbs 17, 22 says a joyfulheart is good medicine.
So we've heard laughter is goodmedicine.
I wouldn't recommend it.
When someone breaks their arm,don't start laughing at them.
But I do think it's good forthe soul, and it comes from sort
of my family experience.
(35:19):
My dad was a doctor here inPhoenix, really super stoic,
serious, went to GeorgetownMedical School, read all the
time.
Just this academic guy, he'sgot a third.
He had a third of the alphabetbehind his name.
And so here's the thing, thoughwhen my dad would laugh in our
home the whole atmosphere wouldchange.
(35:40):
And so here's an ironic thingas a doctor, he would prescribe
medicine for other people, butwhen he would laugh, it would be
medicine for our family souls.
So ever since that, those earlydays as a kid, when my dad
would laugh at the honeymoonersor whatever it was on TV, I
would just go man, anything ispossible.
(36:00):
So I was something that justdrove me.
So I was in seminary around 15years ago and I took all my
credits and transferred themfrom seminary to comedy school,
and I found out that they wereteaching the same thing.
Tim, that was my first joke.
(36:24):
No, but seriously, that is ajoke, but I really did do that
and there's a guy that teachesstand-up comedy and I went to
two semesters to learn how to dobasically a little like intro
set for comedians.
And we began to find likereally A-list Christian
comedians that weren't cheesy orwork in secular clubs and we
began to bring them to campuses.
(36:46):
We started a brand for collegestudents called Outlaw Comedy.
We started a brand for collegestudents called Outlaw Comedy
and so we did 50 different showsacross the nation with 40,000
students in attendance andpretty much our commitment to
laughter.
Every year we launch the firstSunday we have a comedian come,
a friend of mine, ron Pearson,who's a world-class juggler.
He tells stories, jokes, thewhole thing.
(37:08):
He's a warmup comedian inHollywood and he tells his story
at the end and literally wefill our connect groups because
he's so raw and real.
People are like I want to be ina group where I can open up
like this guy just did.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
So, it's.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
it's just we love it, it's a part of our formula and
we're never going to stop doingit so good.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Um, we, we got to get into rhythm.
Shout out to Christ Greenfield.
We've had comedians.
We have about one a year or so,one of our kind of attract
events.
We need to do it.
We need, maybe, maybe it'severy.
You can't laugh enough, brian.
And it's not just comedians.
It's just like in communicatingthe gospel, like I love when
people it makes me reallyexcited to tell a
(37:55):
self-deprecating story where youknow the punchline is going to
hit and everybody's going tolaugh.
The church should focus, shouldfocus more.
And now my mind is going to therecent dumb story I told about
(38:17):
myself.
You remember, you remember Dumband Dumber, brian?
Yeah, were you a fan of kind ofDumb and Dumber?
I love Jim Carrey.
Yeah, jim Carrey is amazing.
So I and I'd love, love tomaybe hear the dumb story, one
dumb story that you did.
But when I was 13, I loved Dumband Dumber so much that me and
my friend Andy did it like ateen version video of Dumb and
(38:41):
Dumber.
I was, I was Jim Carrey Lloydand he was, he was Harry, and I
love the.
I love the scene because whatkid doesn't love that?
What boy doesn't love bathroomhumor?
And so you know why I like you,harry, because you're a regular
guy.
That's why I'm going to keepyou regular.
One hefty teaspoon for fast,effective relief.
And so we would play this scene.
(39:01):
You know the bathroom scene andstuff.
Well, here's the dumbest thing Iever did as a 13-year-old.
I was babysitting a little fiveyear old named Patrick and I
gave him.
I gave him what I thought was Xlax because he was annoying the
you know what out of me.
I thought I was going to yeah,it doesn't make any sense.
But I just seen Dumb and Dumberand so I went to his mom's
(39:22):
closet and I got out a PeptoBismol.
But I thought it was X lalax.
But the mom comes to me like aweek later and says Patrick said
you gave him more than onehefty teaspoon for effective
relief and he's not gone to thebathroom for some time.
If looks could kill, I wantedto lie so bad that I hadn't done
(39:44):
it.
I was.
I'm an awful human.
How does that even happen?
You know what am I thinking?
So, students, brains are notfully formed, but dumb and
dumber inspired me to dosomething.
Very, very dumb, brian.
I told that story in church andthis and this, uh, this was a
few weeks back and this, youknow middle-aged lady very stuck
(40:05):
Her jaw was literally like this.
So she's like I can't.
I was like stop judging.
We were talking about theapostle Paul.
Right, paul killed Christians.
For goodness sake, I didn'tkill Patrick, just gave him some
Pepto.
He's all right, patrick's aliveand well.
Today, by the way, that's right.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
You just helped his stomach.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Exactly, yeah, telling goofy stories, you don't
have to tell a story like thatif you don't want, but we're
real man, yeah, absolutelystories.
You don't have to tell a storylike that if you don't want, but
we're real man, yeah absolutelymy whole college career was a
joke.
I tell about that all the time.
Yeah, so let's get into.
The church should focus more ondemonstration the reality, the
(40:45):
rises and falls, the struggles,the joys, the successes more
than just explanation.
The church should focus more ondemonstration and less on
explanation.
So speak about the power ofaction rather than just words,
and feel free to share the storyof President Roosevelt as he,
as a leader, entered into WorldWar II.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah, bro, so fun.
So we all know the scripturetalks about without a vision,
the people perish.
And so we spent a lot of timeas leaders coming up with a
great vision statement.
I think that's important.
But I've discovered thatpassion trumps vision.
In other words, if peoplearen't passionate, I don't care
(41:26):
how well it's written, they'renot going to do anything.
But I've also found that actiontrumps everything.
So if we're not going to dosomething about our excitement
and our vision, then we won'thave any impact.
And so here's a story abouttaking action from World War II.
You guys know the story In 1939, hitler went on the offensive.
(41:48):
America was all uptight and justinto themselves.
After World War I, there wasbasically this isolationist
attitude we're not going to goto war, we're not getting
involved in something else, it'snot our business, they're going
to do what they're going to do.
We got our own issues, we'retrying to come out of World War
I.
And then you know, germany'snot our problem.
(42:09):
But over the next couple ofyears, hitler conquered most of
our allies in Europe, and soAmericans were bothered, but not
bothered enough to take action.
They still hadn't.
And here's what happened.
The fight came to us onDecember 7th 1941, pearl Harbor.
We know the story.
President Roosevelt decided I'mgoing to rally our country.
Everyone was mobilized for thewar effort.
(42:31):
He ramped up the war machine.
They called it.
Companies like Chrysler, ford,general Motors started making
tanks and planes.
The average Ford car had 15,000parts.
The B-24 Liberator long rangebomber had over 450,000 parts
and one bomber came off theassembly line every 63 minutes.
(42:52):
And that's because Americastopped isolating from the fight
and took action.
Because of that we won the war.
The same thing can happen oncollege campuses if the church
takes action.
So I've heard it said that thechurch is like a football game
22 guys in desperate need ofrest, surrounded by 52,000
(43:13):
people in desperate need ofexercise.
That's what I've heard, butPastor.
Tim.
As pastors and church leaders,we equip our church members to
share their story and the gospelstory in a clear, concise way.
We can win this battle.
Come on bro.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Amen.
Man and a whole generation canbe changed.
And people often lament we'renot a Christian country anymore.
All this kind of stuff.
I would love to see the nextgeneration, the next cycle, be
filled with passionate, engaging, jesus-centered, optimistic
(43:50):
Jesus followers.
Like that would radicallychange the United States of
America.
But you got to engage it andrecognize there's an enemy.
We focus on, the enemy beingpeople that are far from God
right or those that havedifferent ideas.
They're not the enemy, it'sSatan, the big liar, who's
getting us.
He's keeping us stuck in thestands.
I love that metaphor.
We're not playing and Jesuscasts a vision and then gave the
(44:14):
passion, the fuel.
What is the passion and fuel,brian?
It's the Holy Spirit, man, it'sthe wind of the Holy Spirit
that carries us along.
I don't know how you can be agrumpy, non-meaning filled,
pessimistic Christian.
I know how that takes placebecause sin and leads to
depression and selfishness andall that kind of stuff.
I get it, but like you've beenredeemed by Christ to crucified.
(44:34):
If I read the apostle Paul andthe mission of the early church,
I see Jesus fuel.
Like everywhere, it's lookingback with gratitude.
Let's just go timeline here.
They're always looking back atwhat God has done at what God
had done his promises.
He's been faithful in the past.
There's love, love in youridentity in Christ and love for
your neighbor in the present.
(44:55):
And then there's hope.
No matter what comes in thefuture, you know the crucified
and risen one who's going toreturn to make all things new.
So what do we have to be afraidof?
What are we so pessimisticabout?
We know who wins at the end ofthe day, right, brian?
So let's go, let's get active.
So how was the early churchlet's talk.
The early church, how was theearly church defined?
Through action.
What of their actions should weemulate today, in 2024?
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Well, as I read the book of Acts, we see that the
church is not just a place wherewe go to hear a message.
The church is a group of peoplewith a message on the move.
That's what I see.
And so in Acts 2, you know, wesee thousands of people getting
saved, baptized, and they startsharing the gospel.
They literally change a cityand then, throughout Acts, they
(45:39):
never stop preaching the gospel,even in the midst of
tribulation, persecution, arrestand martyrdom.
They don't pray for it to goaway, they pray for courage in
the midst of it.
So I call this the physics ofthe gospel, for courage in the
midst of it.
So I call this the physics ofthe gospel.
You guys remember, you've heardthis Newton's first law, the law
of inertia, that an object inmotion tends to stay in motion
(45:59):
and an object at rest tends tostay at rest.
Well, when Jesus said inMatthew 28, to go, that was all
about motion.
Go, move towards the harvest.
And the one thing I've learnedin over 35 years of ministry is
that a Christian in motion tendsto stay in motion, but a
Christian at rest tends to stayat rest and find fault with
Christians in motion.
It's sad, like I had a buddy inhigh school.
(46:22):
It's funny, he was in Goodwillhunting.
Do you remember that scenewhere Matt Damon's talking to
the guy in the bar, the guy withthe ponytail?
He goes how do you like themapples, that whole thing?
The guy with the ponytail wasmy classmate at Brophy High
School, scott Winters, and hisbrother is the mayhem guy at
Allstate with the band-aids.
They're doing brothers.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
They do look alike now, I can see it, you can see
it, I can totally see it.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah.
So he went home one he gotreally big working out.
He just worked out all summerlong and came back and there was
two options.
When you saw Scott, you couldeither say, man, scott got huge.
And you go up to him and go,dude, how did you do that?
I want to get big.
Or you would say, well, he'sjust doing steroids, I'm not
(47:02):
going to do that.
And so it's kind of like thatin the body of Christ.
Either there's something wrongwith that ministry if it's going
and growing, or how do you doit?
We want to learn from you.
And so I just think we got toremember the church is not a
place where we go to hear amessage.
It's a people with a message onthe move.
Students aren't going to cometo us, we have to go to them.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yes, so so good.
Coming down the homestretch man, I'm going to put a little
timestamp in that one.
And for those of you in theLutheran Church, missouri Synod,
what Pastor Brian just said isthe reason we're conflicted
today.
We're trying to justify if ourministry is struggling and we're
trying to define ourselves.
(47:44):
It's all an identity issue.
We're trying to find ouridentity in how I'm being
faithful we use this term.
Actually, brian, I'm being, ifyou're just faithful, it doesn't
matter if things are decliningand there's issues in your
church et cetera, but, man, I'mfaithful.
Well, there are people who areout there wondering if you're
(48:04):
gonna be faithful on the move.
They're not wondering this, butthe Holy Spirit is wondering if
you wanna join him in hismission out in the world.
And then we should look at ourbrothers and sisters.
You read the Infinite Game bySimon Sinek.
No, so the Infinite Game.
It's a decent concept.
The concept is my goal is notto win the game, it's to stay in
(48:28):
the game.
It's to stay in the game.
And for my church to stay inthe game, it's going to
necessitate multiplyingdisciples, sending out leaders,
raising up the next generation.
I just want to stay in the game, because it's an infinite game.
There's no winning per se.
So as I look at other, as I lookat other ministries, they're
just worthy rivals and rival inair quotes.
(48:48):
They're not our rival.
But I'm looking at, I'm likeman, what can I learn if I'm in
the industry?
Right, if I'm in themarketplace?
I'm looking at Amazon's beingwatched by a number of different
folks you know in the salesindustry.
So how do I look at them andsay, man, I got something to
learn.
That is the best perspective,rather than looking at that
ministry or whatever themovement is and saying, wow,
they're compromising something.
(49:10):
That's the scarcity, that's thescarcity mindset and it leads
us down a very, very depressing,dark, controlling power, hungry
path.
And there are some within theLutheran church Missouri Synod
that are going down that path.
I don't want that.
Jesus doesn't want that path.
He's given us great vision tosee the fields are ripe under
the harvest.
Pray to the Lord of the harvest, send out workers into his
(49:35):
harvest field.
So thank you for bringing thatkind of prophetic word to
challenge us.
Let's get on the move and stayon the move.
So everywhere you and your teamgo, you look for opportunities
to meet new people, to share thegospel, what we've just said,
like movement, laughter,engagement, all of that sounds
awesome to the extrovert, butmaybe some people who are the,
because we are both kind ofespecially when we're on, if you
(49:59):
will, we're kind of ragingextroverts.
You know, not everybody's aBrian Smith or the way God
uniquely and weirdly made me.
So how does such a strategythat you have right now for
engaging college students engagethe introvert who likes to keep
his or her tribe smaller?
Speaker 3 (50:19):
That's great, great question.
So here's what I tell ourchurch all the time If you're
following Jesus as Lord, you'recalled to make the Great
Commission your mission,regardless of your degree or
vocation.
And you're called to make theGreat Commission your mission
regardless of your degree orvocation, and you're called to
be a witness for Jesus,regardless of your spiritual
gifts, your stage of life oryour current circumstances.
(50:40):
Just read the book of Acts.
I think that's how we shouldact.
So some people think witnessingis like the responsibility of
full-time staff members who havethe gift of evangelism, but the
word evangelist only appearsthree times in Scripture.
On the other hand, the wordwitness appears over 30 times in
the New Testament.
It's used to describe everyonewho's following Jesus.
(51:03):
So here's what that means wedon't need a gift of evangelism
to be a witness.
We just need to be a witness,right.
So there are a few things wecan all do, though, to be a
witness.
We just need to be a witness,right.
So there are a few things wecan all do, though, to give
people hope.
First, no matter where you're atintrovert, extrovert write down
a list of your friends and prayfor them on a daily basis, and
pray that God would make yousalt and light in their life and
(51:26):
that you would just that Godwould break your heart for these
people, your friends, that youput on your list.
I started doing this with myneighbors recently and they're
coming out of the houses sayinghi, it's just crazy how it works
.
But back in the day, when I wason campus, after I gave my life
to Jesus, I started making alist of my friends and praying
for them, literally a few timesa week at prayer meetings, and
(51:50):
they would come out of thewoodwork and say I'd see them
and they'd go oh, I was thinkingabout you.
You know it's cool to see youand you know some of them would
get saved on campus.
Some of them five years later,10 years, 15, even 20 years
later.
I have the privilege of leavingsome of my classmates to the
Lord.
So secondly, after making thelist, invite them into your life
.
Statistics show that theaverage American makes one new
(52:13):
friend every five years.
So we've got to be, friendswith people.
Yeah, one new friend.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
That's why we're lonely, bro, absolutely.
That's why loneliness is anepidemic.
One new friend in five years.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Absolutely.
Rick Warren says write downwhat you love to do most and
then go, do it with unbelievers.
Whatever you love to do, turnit into an outreach.
So I like to say if you caninvite people into your house,
you can invite them into God'shouse, the church.
So the majority of students arenot immediately open to the
gospel when they arrive oncampus.
But they may be interested inexploring their faith, but most
(52:48):
aren't really ready to go all inand follow Jesus until they hit
a crisis at some point.
So we're currently inrelationship with thousands of
students across our movementbecause we believe when they hit
crisis, we want to be there, tobe in relationship with them,
to help tell them the message ofJesus.
And so we just got to tellpeople about Jesus.
(53:08):
I tell our church ourrelationship with Jesus is
personal, but it was neverdesigned to be private.
We got to tell people our storyand the gospel story.
Hey, if we just equip them todo that, they could do the
elevator pitch in three minutesor they could sit down for an
hour.
They could do a Bible study.
But we just got to be ready toshare the gospel whenever it
comes up and we got to startpraying that it would.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah and it will.
It will as crisis comes, assuffering comes, as things go
one way or another in ourcountry, in the world, there's
going to be ample opportunityfor us to meet that crisis with
the hope of the resurrection,praise God.
Finally, the last question.
This has been so much fun,brian, the time has flown.
You call reaching college kidsthe adventure of a lifetime.
(53:53):
Why so?
Speaker 3 (53:55):
Well, there's nothing like reaching the next
generation with the gospel.
By the way, I have moreT-shirts in my collection than
collared shirts.
I love it.
I collect swim shirts fromevery college campuses I visit
because I played water polo incollege.
But college students, again,are the most recruitable,
trainable and sendable people inthe world.
(54:15):
It's so listen, why did Jesuschoose college age guys when he
was on this earth?
Because they've always been thebest people to change the world
, their future leaders, businessleaders, husbands, fathers,
wives and mothers.
We have the privilege ofimpacting their lives and seeing
really an arc of their story,from freshman year all the way
(54:39):
through graduation, marriage,kids.
It's so incredible and you know, a lot of the revivals that
have happened start on collegecampuses.
It just wakes me up in themorning.
I love it.
I love it.
I never.
I don't want to do anythingelse.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
It's a calling, bro, and you're very unique and the
world needs your unique giftingand your, your multiplying
impact and your big vision, butfueled by just a very simple
passion to share the gospel withas many kids as possible.
(55:14):
I commend it.
I'm learning from you, we'llcontinue to learn from you and
from Hope Church Movement,praying for you, that it blows,
I mean just expands to all.
Let's go, let's just reach asmany kids as possible, and we
want to partner with you towardthat end.
So how can people connect withyou as they're listening to the
Hope Church Movement?
Brian?
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Well, by the way, on Amazon, my book Winning the
Battle to Belong is available.
If they want to buy that andread it and then reach out to us
on Instagram Hope ChurchMovement, mvmt.
Facebook Hope Church websiteHopeChurchMovementcom.
I'm on Facebook Brian Smith Srand Instagram Pastor B Smith
(55:57):
underscore Campus Change yourNetwork is a great way if you're
a church that wants to reach acampus near you.
We actually have a coaching,consulting and really we'll even
send teams to Spark Evangelismfor you to follow up with all
over the country.
Please get in touch with us.
That's Campus Changer Networkand I think it's
CampusChangerNetworkcom.
(56:17):
Yeah, and so please buy my book, not because none of the
finances go to me, it goes toour movement and I want more
people to be in the battle tobelong, winning that on the
campuses near their church.
And you'd take confessionalconservative Lutherans to train
(56:39):
to launch ministries Would youwelcome us Absolutely as long as
I have a haircut like yours.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Dude, you're the man.
This has been so, so much funand this is the American
Reformation podcast.
Please share this conversationtoday.
Think of some follower of Jesusin your world.
Don't let them know why you'resending it to them, but you're
like.
You know you could use some joy.
You could use some passion forreaching the next generation.
You need a infusion of meaningto be a grandpa, maybe to
(57:09):
college kids, and to come in.
Everybody, every generation,every age and stage needs to be
engaged in this conversation toreach the next generation, to
help them, to help cast visionfor them becoming the leaders
and the gospel multipliers.
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day,brian.
You're the man.
Man Love you, dude.
Thank you for this time.
Speaker 3 (57:28):
Love you, bro.
Thanks for having me on, allright.
Hello and welcome to the brand new American
Reformation podcast.
We long to see the widerAmerican Christian church fall
more in love with Jesus bylearning from the practices of
the early church and other erasof discipleship multiplication.
We want to hear from you, makesure you comment and leave a
review, wherever you're watchingor listening, to tell us what
God is doing in your life or howyou feel about today's
(00:25):
conversation.
Lord, have your way in us.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast,
tim Allman.
Here I get the privilege ofbeing a part of the Unite
Leadership Collective.
I'm a pastor at ChristGreenfield and I'm honored to be
a part of the conversation inthe Lutheran Church Missouri
Synod, a denomination that oneof our recent podcasts on Lead
Time with a former president ofour synod talked about the rapid
(00:55):
decline and some of the reasonsfor the rapid decline in our
denomination.
I'm doing this podcast today,and really all of them, to pray
for a new day, that the sameHoly Spirit that lit a flame and
sparked growth on thatPentecost day this is being
released around Pentecost wouldgive fire to those of us in our
tribe and we've got a lot tolearn, especially as we engage
(01:19):
college students and youngadults.
And so if you're listening andyou're an LCMS Lutheran, I pray
you have an open heart to theHope Church story.
Now we have much to learn fromour brothers and sisters and
other Christian faith traditions.
Plus, I have come to know andhighly respect my guest as a
friend and partner in the gospelin the Phoenix Valley and
beyond, as their church movementhas boomed by the grace of God
(01:41):
over the past 10 years.
I want to introduce you toBrian Smith Sr.
He is the founding pastor ofHope Church Movement, a
collegiate-focused churchplanning movement reaching now
this is amazing 24 collegecampuses all across the
Southwest.
Praise God.
For over 35 years, brian hashelped students find and follow
Jesus, walk in freedom and liveon mission.
(02:02):
In the name of Jesus, brian andhis wife Wendy.
She's sweet man, this guy.
He married way up.
She's a real deal, yes, she is.
They live in Mesa, arizona,have three adult sons, two
daughter-in-laws, three great,great granddaughters not great,
just granddaughters threegranddaughters and a golden
doodle named Kabob man.
That sounds like Kabob.
Am I saying that right?
(02:23):
How did you come up with kebab?
Kaibab, okay, well, how'd youcome up with Kaibab?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Kaibab.
You got me saying, bob, it'sKaibab, it's the Kaibab Trail.
She was born on the day I didthe rim to rim hike.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Oh, good for you.
I should have known.
Yeah, I've never done that.
Someday, someday I've done,I've done down and out, but not
rim to rim.
So so much fun.
Hey, brian, before we get intothis, how are you doing, man?
You feeling good, feeling great.
Thanks for having me on.
This is going to be fun.
So a standard question on thispodcast how are you praying for
reformation in the AmericanChristian Church, brian?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well, before I get into that, just thanks for
having me.
Pastor Tim and you know whatyou guys are doing great work at
Christ Greenfield.
I just got to say this to allyour listeners and watchers.
However, this is being produced.
I was at my dermatologistappointment about a year ago and
he's telling me about how muchhis son loves this school he
goes to and I go.
What school is that?
He said Christ GreenfieldLutheran School, and I'm like
(03:19):
that's my bro.
He's doing great work.
So thanks for your ecumenicalheart, your salt and light in
this city.
It's an honor to be aco-laborer with you here in
Phoenix, yeah the joy is mine.
Here's what I'm praying aboutand I guess, by way of
introduction, I'm not aphilosopher, tim.
I'm not a theologian, I'm not ascholar.
(03:42):
I just consider myself apractitioner who's been
clarifying the gospel on collegecampuses for over three decades
, and so I'm believing forreformation and how the church
really views the next generationon college campuses.
You know, everybody knows thatcollege students want to stand
for something right.
I mean, look at the influencein our country right now with
(04:03):
all the all the stuff, protestsand everything going on.
But unfortunately, I don'tthink we're seeing the college
campus accurately.
For example, when I say thephrase mission field, I ask
people what do you think of?
And most people think of anunreached people group in a
third world country.
Those are definitely legitimatemission fields that need to be
reached, are definitelylegitimate mission fields that
(04:25):
need to be reached.
But at Hope Church Movement, webelieve that the most
overlooked strategic missionfield in the world is right in
our own backyard the 20 millioncollege students of America.
So college students are themost recruitable, trainable and
sendable people in the world.
I remember this has reallyimpacted me this quote from
Martin Luther when he said thathe was afraid that universities
(04:46):
would prove to be the gates ofhell unless we diligently labor
in explaining the HolyScriptures.
So it's like he was kind ofsaying whatever you do, don't
forget about it, don't overlookcollege students.
I think he was prophetic.
We've interviewed, as aministry, 360,000 college
students on 60 campuses acrossAmerica.
(05:08):
Here's what we've discoveredthat 96% of college students
don't have a biblicalunderstanding of how to have a
relationship with Jesus.
The Barna Group discovered thesame thing in their research a
few years ago.
They said that college studentsin America are an unreached
people group and that only 4%are biblically literate.
So unfortunately, the church atlarge has really lost the
(05:30):
importance of reaching the nextgeneration, especially college
freshmen.
So when we talk about changingthe world and changing culture,
the reality is, if we want to dothat, we got to change the
college campuses, because that'sreally where the future leaders
of our nation are at.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's what I'm praying for Dude, it's so good.
And I think the narrative todayis college kids.
I mean, in light of this istimestamp 2024, Palestinian,
Israeli, kind of stuff, and it'sjust so negative.
And then you've got a lot offolks that say, well, they're
all being indoctrinated and thesecular pay, you know all this
(06:09):
kind of stuff.
Hey, what's new?
Man?
Satan is having a heyday.
He's always.
He's always, you know, roaringaround like a roaring lion
seeking someone to devour.
So we shouldn't be surprised.
So does the church just kind ofsay, well, yeah, university is
awful, these kids these days.
Or do we say, let's get, let'sget after it, let's go love them
(06:30):
, let's go find them?
You know, and and to do so, you, you have been so, so creative
in the way you've engagedcollege students.
You've met them where they'reat, You've recognized their felt
needs and you've cast visionfor them being a part of
something huge, which is themission of Jesus, his desire,
the kingdom of God, God's desireto get all of his kids back,
all of his kids back.
Why would he go over ageneration of kids that are in
(06:52):
college?
There's no way he would.
And you're answering that callright now.
So tell us about the HopeChurch movement a little bit
Brian.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So thanks, by the way , that was such a compliment.
I appreciate that.
Hope is a non-denominational,collegiate focused church
planting movement which is kindof an anomaly in the body of
Christ.
There are some other collegiatefocused church movements around
the country that I've actuallybuilt on the shoulders of some
great men Salt Company out ofIowa, grace Point, which is now
(07:22):
Acts 2, that started at UCBerkeley, resonate Church
Movement in Washington State andthe Collegiate Church Network
that started in the Midwest.
But in many ways, like I said,we're kind of an anomaly because
we're not a community churchwith a college outreach or
college service.
We're a collegiate-focusedchurch.
We believe that we're called tofill the Great Commission on
(07:45):
college campuses and theirsurrounding cities.
So we have people of all agesand stages of life in our church
because we really think that ittakes all generations to reach
the next generation.
And one of the things we dothrough the Campus Changer
Network, which we started fiveyears ago, is we help community
churches reach universities incities near them.
(08:05):
We're working with a church inColorado, one in Nebraska, one
in Florida and, of all places,tim one in Ireland.
So a little bit about ourdemographics.
60% of our church members weresaved through our ministry.
55% of our attendance onSundays are guests and a
majority are college students.
Many aren't Christians.
(08:25):
They're de-churched, unchurchedor unfamiliar with the gospel.
We believe college students arecalled the lead in the local
church, so we really have builtleadership pipelines.
We have 340 students andgraduates on our leadership team
.
Eighty-seven percent of ourchurch is under 30 years old and
we have 113 staff and internsin church planting residence.
(08:46):
So our leadership team, withall that concentration, leads
950 Bible studies across all ofour campuses every month, and so
we're definitely just aposition to reach a lot of
people.
We're basically missionaries tothe college campus and we're
excited to be expanding to Texas.
Next school year.
We're sending a team to reach90,000 students at UT, austin
(09:09):
and Texas State University.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
You started out saying I'm not a philosopher,
theologian, you are a theologian.
You've studied the word of God,don't sell yourself short.
But more than that, you'vestudied the way of Jesus and the
release of Jesus.
We got if you hear a bell inthe background, we got chapel
starting right now Kids arecoming to hear about Jesus.
It's so, so good.
But you've got this leadershipdevelopment pathway pipeline.
(09:37):
Whatever you want to say that anumber of young people give me
and this is kind of going off alittle bit, but give me like I
know your kids have beeninvolved in this a little bit.
But give me like I know yourkids have been involved in this,
and so what does that look like?
A little bit more of how youraise people up and send them in
.
They're doing Bible studies, etcetera, but what is the
intention around the training?
I'd love to just hear just alittle bit about that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Well, we'd have to dive in a bunch here, but just
quickly, we really make adistinction.
That leadership is aboutservice right, and so you know
the greatest leader is a servantand that discipleship is about
obedience to the last thing Godtold us to do.
So we're really makingdisciples and we're raising up
(10:20):
leaders.
But here, have you ever noticedthis?
In the body of Christ it'spossible, and this has been in
our church as well it's possibleto be a leader but not really
be a disciple.
So we are really more concernedabout, are you a disciple?
So we have a discipleshippathway that we've discovered or
developed really developed withsome other help from people
(10:41):
that takes them from the pointof decision for Christ all the
way to a multiplying disciple.
Then we also have a leadershipladder that we do, taking them
from a friend all the way to achurch planter.
So we emphasize discipleshipand along the way we give them
opportunities to lead and whenthey're faithful we just kind of
raise them up to the next level.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's great.
That's it.
It's so good.
So what is?
Let's get detailed about thekids on campuses today.
What is one thing that theaverage adult Christian does not
understand about collegestudents, college kids in 2024?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, I mentioned a little bit earlier, we've
engaged about 360,000 studentson 60 campuses and 96% of
students don't know the gospel.
But here's the good news Onevery campus we go to, 30 to 40%
of college students areinterested in learning more
about the gospel.
So what people don't know isthe fish are still biting.
(11:38):
Throw away your postmodernbooks.
Throw away the lies that peoplehave changed so much.
Listen, people have changed,but not their heart, and when
people love them and tell themthe truth, they're getting saved
at the same rate.
They were 35 years ago when Istarted.
So that's my survey over 35years and, by the way, it's been
the best year of ministry yet.
(11:58):
Our team engaged about 50,000new students, led 6,500 Bible
studies.
We had 2,000 gospelappointments, tim, which are
where we sit down, ask someonetheir story, tell them our story
and share the gospel story.
We had 2,000 gospelappointments and prayed with 700
people to surrender their livesto Jesus.
(12:18):
So every day, the classes werein session, bro.
This year, four people decidedto follow Jesus every single day
.
And so here's an amazing thingit took us 14 years to see a
thousand students surrendertheir lives to Jesus.
It took another four years tosee our second thousand, and in
the last year we've seen closeto 700 get saved.
(12:40):
So that's on 24 campuses thatwe're reaching, and so a lot of
people think Jesus.
You know that the Jesus movementthat we've been hearing about
they made a movie about startedone day when the Holy Spirit
just like fell and everybodythousands of hippies started
getting saved and stuff.
Well, it was definitely a workof the Holy Spirit.
(13:01):
But what really happened?
As I've talked to friends ofmine that were there one in
particular, pastor Mark Buckleyhe said that one person started
following Jesus and that personwent and got their friends and
shared the story of whathappened to them.
Those friends told theirfriends it kept going, kept
growing.
So I just want people to stoplistening to people who say that
nobody in this generation wantsto hear about Jesus.
(13:23):
It's just not true.
People are responding to gospelat the same rate they were 35
years ago.
We just got to go tell ourstories and start fishing.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yes.
What's so good about that?
There's so many things.
There's hope there.
For those of us that kind oflive with a pessimistic.
You know, as you get older as afollower of Jesus, it's really
easy to look at the world andget grumpy.
Brian, you're growing up intoJesus and we have the hope of
(13:54):
the resurrection when he returnsand we have the call to make
disciples.
Who make disciples today.
It really, as I hear your story, I mean it's not simple
disciples today.
It really, as I hear your story, I mean it's not simple.
It takes effort and intentionand the work of the Holy Spirit
and trust and time, but theflywheel effect takes place and
we can see a new flywheel effecttake place in a number of
(14:16):
different denominations andmovements within the American
Christian church.
And that's what I'm, that'swhat I'm praying for.
This is so.
I come from a Lutheranbackground, brian, and one of
our primary focuses of doctrineis is passive faith?
All right, so you do nothing tomake yourself right before God.
You don't choose him, hechooses you Right.
(14:39):
So there's this passivity, butfor us as as Lutherans, a lot of
times we can end up thispassivity.
But for us as Lutherans, a lotof times we can end up well, I
don't do anything anyways.
So, like telling folks thegospel, well, it's the Holy
Spirit's work, so we'll see.
And no plant the seed, god'sthe one that's going to make it
grow.
For sure, I preached, apollosWatered, but God gave the growth
(15:02):
.
There was still proclamationthat took place.
So, yeah, we wouldn't usenecessarily word, all these
decisions for Jesus.
What we would say is all ofthese students got baptized.
All of these students and Iknow that's a major part of your
like, they're yes, do you wantto be baptized?
Have you heard the word of Godand responded to the word of God
in faith?
Here's the water.
Let's go.
The Ethiopian eunuch that'swhat we need today More and more
(15:25):
.
But Philip is carried along bythe Holy Spirit.
It comes upon a guy.
How can I understand this wordunless someone explains it to me
?
Could we have a movement ofproclaimers?
This is just faithful to theword of God and for us in our
tribe there are some who believepastors are the only ones, the
ordained ones are the only oneswho are the proclaimers.
Give me a break.
What are we talking about here?
(15:46):
This is ridiculous.
There were so many women andmen who were on fire for the
Lord, and they were not allcalled to be the ordained.
No, they were just people who'dbeen baptized, claimed by the
gospel of Jesus, and they couldnot help but proclaim the one
who'd called them out ofdarkness into a marvelous light.
You get me going, man.
(16:14):
We need to learn from movementslike yours and there needs to
be an open-handed release of thetitles.
And who can do what when, nah,you're just training up the
willing, working with thewilling, and, as the Holy Spirit
gives kind of affirmation,you're saying here's your next
step, leader, here's your nextstep.
And, oh, and, if you miss ondiscipleship, if you miss and
when I hear discipleship I hearthe character of Christ If you
miss on the character of Christ,the humility of Christ, the
fruit of the spirit being shownin your life, you're going to
(16:34):
miss on absolutely everything,everything else.
So that's where it starts.
And then here am I send me andwe'll see.
We'll see what.
We'll go on this divineadventure and see what the Lord
wants to do.
That's a compelling vision, Ibelieve for for a lot of young
people today.
A life filled with notdepression and despair or lack,
but they got ample meaning andpurpose centered in in the
Missio Dei, the mission of God.
(16:55):
Yeah, ok, any response to that?
I'm sorry, going off.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I think we need more baptisms, but not more eunuchs.
That's how I would respond.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Facts.
Okay, that's a classic BrianSmith response.
We can agree on that, to besure.
All right, one of the biggestissues for college students
today is loneliness.
Does anybody see me, love me,care for me?
I loved your book Winning theBattle to Belong.
What are college freshmeninitially looking for when they
come to college?
It's a great question, you knowme.
I loved your book Winning theBattle to Belong.
What are college freshmeninitially looking for when they
(17:26):
come to college?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
It's a great question .
You know.
Over the years, tim, especiallythe last five years or so,
other pastors and ministryleaders have kind of been saying
would you just write down someof the things you guys are doing
?
I was a little bit reluctant,but finally did it.
And so let me start by sharingsome of my story.
When I first got to campus 40years ago don't tell anybody,
(17:51):
tim 40 years ago, in 1983, myparents were focused on how I
behaved.
Get this.
Most of the campus ministriesat the tables I walked by were
focused on what I believed.
But there were two guys whowere different, because they
were focused on what I wasreally thinking about, which was
(18:11):
where do I belong?
Those two guys were some of thebest evangelists I've ever met,
but they weren't campusmissionaries, they were members
of a college fraternity.
So here's what happened Withinthree days of moving into my
residence hall, these two guysknocked on my door.
They knew my name.
They knew that I went to BrophyHigh School and I played
varsity basketball.
They were there to recruit me.
(18:31):
They had done their homework.
They knew my name, man.
That alone I was like what.
They invited me to a party and Iwent to this party.
It was unlike I'd ever been to,and instantly I felt like I
belong.
So my first three days set mycourse for the next three years,
away from God.
You see, it was that firstweekend, first 72 hours, that I
(18:52):
threw out what I believed.
I behaved in ways that I neverthought I would all because I
desperately wanted to belong.
In fact, one of the primaryreasons that 70% of students
raised in the church throw outwhat they believe in college is
because they're in a battle.
It's called the battle tobelong, and whoever wins that
battle wins them.
So it's not, you know, it's notjust us saying that, though.
(19:14):
Social scientists are writingabout belonging more than ever
before.
Even universities are creatingnew positions called the Dean of
Belonging Harvard, purdue,pepperdine it's happening all
over.
So at Hope, we define thebattle to belong as the internal
crisis that students experiencewhen they leave.
Family and friends arrive oncampus for the first time and
(19:35):
are desperate for connection.
So I believe winning the battleto belong is a key ingredient
to reaching college students,because many times on college
campuses, winning the battle tobelong precedes and paves the
way to winning the battle tobelieve in Jesus.
In other words, we've got tohelp students belong even before
they believe.
Does that make sense?
(19:56):
It does, I mean.
So I'm not saying studentscan't believe in Jesus before
they belong to a Christiancommunity, but in my experience
it's not the norm.
And, by the way, in the Gospelswe see that Jesus engaged in
both the battle to belong andthe battle to believe.
In John, chapter one, he wasall starting his ministry.
Andrew and John were followinghim and Jesus asked what do you
(20:17):
want?
And he said where are youstaying?
And he said come and see.
That was the first recordedinvitation from Jesus in the New
Testament.
See, that was the first recordedinvitation from Jesus in the
New Testament.
It's like he was saying youknow, amen, you know, you just
come and hang out with me, let'sgo do this, let's do life,
let's hang.
And so then, two years later,he said come, and after come and
see.
(20:37):
He said come and die.
And that was when he revealedhimself as the Christ.
That says right.
Philippi invited them to takeup their cross and follow him.
So think about that.
Two years after he invited themto come and see, he invited
them to come and die.
So I submit for us on collegecampuses come and see is about
winning the battle to belong andcome and die is about winning
the battle to believe.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's so, so good.
A lot of times in our tribe wethink very, very small and again
it goes back to I don't want toget in, it's not my work.
You know, you're going to makedisciples of all nations.
Jesus cast a pretty big visionRight and the Apostle Paul lived
into that and the otherapostles.
So big is not bad.
(21:20):
We should dream big.
What would you say to someonewho says your events are overly
attractional and you're sellingout on sharing the gospel?
What would you say to that?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
person.
Wow, I would say thank you foryour feedback.
Come and see, come and join us.
Yeah, you know we.
We don't do events just to bebig.
All of our events are designedto lead to authentic
relationships where we canclarify the gospel.
For example, we had 2,000 atour last Survivor Weekend event
(21:52):
and we had almost 2,000 personalgospel appointments throughout
the year.
So sitting down with someone andasking them their story,
sharing the gospel story withthem, is really, I found, much
more effective than even doing acrusade where a bunch of people
raise their hand or comeforward.
But I'm glad you brought upthat question because in order
to reach college students, wefirst have to understand that
(22:16):
there's a stigma aboutChristians on campus, and the
stigma is that Christians arenot interesting, not relevant,
not fashionable, not funny, notintelligent.
In other words, christians arejust not.
In fact, a recent statisticfrom Barna says that 84% of
unbelievers in their late teensand 20s have a negative
(22:36):
impression of Christianity and,whether we want to admit it or
not, we as Christians havesomething to do with that.
Now, there are other factorsthat contribute to the stigma.
There's a spiritual enemy, butif we're really honest,
sometimes as Christians we'vepromoted the stigma ourselves in
the way we present ourselves,the events, we produce those
kind of things.
(22:56):
So if we want to win the battleto belong which is what we call
that crisis, when students stepfoot on campus for the first
time, away from family andfriends, and they want to belong
so bad, they want to connectwith people so bad that we got
to stop doing things as thechurch that promote the stigma
and start doing things thatbreak the stigma.
So I'd hope we do things.
(23:18):
We do things through impactevents and which, from a
military perspective, is likebombs in the air, and then we
also do things throughrelationship, relationships,
authentic relationships.
We're kind of like boots on theair, and then we also do things
through relationships,authentic relationships, where
it kind of like boots on theground.
So I like to say that asChristians, we should be the
most fun-loving, life-giving,engaging people around, and if
(23:39):
we're serious about reachingcollege students, the church
should have the most excellentepic impact events because we
serve the living God who createdthe universe and Tim rose from
the dead.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
So the question.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Here's what's really bothered me for decades.
Why are so many otherorganizations better at
recruiting college students inthe church of the living God?
That's why we're committed tobreaking the stigma and being
better than the world atreaching college students.
That's why we do our epicimpact events.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So good.
So what other organizationswould you give as like just
these people are?
They're outside the church butthey're just killing it in terms
of engagement of kids?
Can you give us an example ortwo?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Sure, Fraternities, athletics, credit card companies
, you know, recruiting.
The college campus is arecruitment center and we as a
church have been pretty lame forthe most part, and and so and
this hit me years ago when Irealized, man, there's things I
(24:42):
don't even want to go to thatChristians are putting on
because it's so lame.
And then I had to.
When I became a pastor, I'mlike what kind of stuff am I
going to put on?
It's like Christian movies.
Some of them are good, but mostof them are kind of like ah,
it's a little bit different thanwhy can't we get better?
Why can't we do theMichelangelo artwork where
everybody comes and wants tolook at it, as opposed to?
(25:04):
I know where this is headed.
There's going to be conversionscene two thirds of the way
through.
I mean, it's just everything,come on.
So we do pre evangelism withour events for the most part
that's so good, man, we'recommitted.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We're committed right alongside you to having epic,
and I'm not afraid of the wordattractional.
Jesus was attractive.
The crowds were attracted toJesus.
The cross was not attractive,let's be honest.
Right, everybody fell away fromJesus.
But the resurrection, holySpirit, inspired reality of this
new life, the new kingdom.
The king is on the throne.
So there's going to besuffering, there's going to be
(25:39):
trial.
We're not getting.
This isn't a, for us, atheology of glory which says
come and follow Jesus in all ofyour life and all of your
struggles.
We're going to know it's real,it's raw, it's messy.
We're committed to tellingbetter stories about the God who
steps into the mess with us.
(26:01):
Anything more to add to that,brian?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, his ministry, Andrew and John, come and see
where I live.
Come and see Some theologiansthink two years later is when he
said come and die, take up yourcross and follow me at Caesarea
Philippi.
So what did he do in themeantime?
He lived with them, he hadadventures, he ate with them.
So we're going hey, the fallsemester when freshmen show up,
we're saying come and see.
And then throughout the fall webegin to bring the gospel to
bear that, hey, you got to takeup your cross if you really want
(26:31):
to follow Jesus.
But come on, man, a littlesugar helps the medicine go down
.
I mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, that's what Survivor Weekend is, bro.
I mean, you've talked about ita couple times.
Take us deeper and tell usabout Survivor Weekend and the
impact that it's had.
It's so, so good.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Survivor Weekend and the impact that it's had.
It's so, so good.
Thanks, bro.
So Survivor Weekend is ourpremier event.
We put it on the beginning ofeach fall semester, a couple of
weeks into the year, and eventhough our church puts it on, we
tell everybody it is not achurch camp, it's an adventure
weekend and that's some studentssay it's the best weekend
they've had in their collegecareer.
So we all travel to 160 acrecamp to compete.
(27:10):
There's all these tribes that weform.
We tell people choose yourtribe before your trail.
So they get on tribes, facepaint champs, the whole thing
based on their campuses, theirareas on campus.
They have a weekend of fun withno regrets, and so they're on a
tribe and I kind of like to sayit's a mixture of survivor.
They're on a tribe and I kindof like to say it's a mixture of
(27:31):
survivor, tough mutter, with anEDM concert thrown in.
And so last year was ourbiggest survivor weekend event.
There were 10,000 meals served,8,000 volunteer hours, 2,000
students and volunteersregistered, 330 tents were
filled with six students eachand 22 college campuses were
involved.
So here's a cool statistic that70% of the students who attend
(27:53):
Survivor eventually come tochurch or connect groups.
So it's an effort to connectwith people and bring them into
our culture, our community, withthe hope that we could then
share the gospel with them.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
So with that, check out this video from Survivor
Weekend.
This is going to blow your mind.
Take a look.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
When I was first joining Survivor, my friend sent
me the video to give me an ideaof what it was, and as soon as
I watched it I was like I'm sold.
I'm so here, and everythingthat you see in the video is
exactly what you would see inSurvivor.
The only thing that's differentis you actually get to feel it.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Personally, I've been trying to keep to myself more
as I kind of go through college,just because trying to find my
people has been franklyexhausting, whether or not, like
you're a go-getter orcharismatic or whatever, being
out here chanting for the samepeople, you're going to find
your tribe.
It's like a whole family andit's because, like most of the
(29:09):
people in my tribe, I met noteven like less than a week ago
and like we're already likefamily.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Well, I've already found my people, like I know for
a fact that the people I've met, especially people who go to my
school, I am gonna have thesefriends throughout the year and
I'm gonna have these faces oncampus, and so just knowing that
they have my back already isjust such a great way to start
the year and I'm just soencouraged going into the school
year about it because of therelationships I've already built
.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Being with like a bunch of guys.
I didn't know who they were.
They were just strangers acouple days ago and now it feels
like they're my brothers.
It's honestly insane.
It's a great way to makefriends and a great way to just
talk to people.
Anyone who would even considerbeing on the fence about it
should definitely do it, becausethey won't regret it.
(29:57):
I could promise you that allright, that's so exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
um, you quote tim elmore EPIC formula for engaging
young adults.
Brian Please and EPIC is anacronym Please walk us through
what EPIC looks like in youngadult engagement.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
You've got Tim Elmore , the CEO of Growing Leaders,
research students in thisgeneration.
He describes them as an EPICgeneration.
Epic is E, which stands forexperiential, in other words,
they're looking for memorableexperiences.
P stands for participatory,meaning they want to be part of
something bigger than themselves.
I stands for image rich,meaning they're very visual.
(30:39):
And then C stands for connected, meaning the more we can stop
lecturing them and startconnecting with them, the better
.
So the bottom line on everycollege campus is that every
student wants to have fun andmakes friends fast, and if we as
the church don't have somethingepic that we're excited to
invite them to, we're justgetting into the stigma.
So over the last 20 years ourmovement has produced impact
(31:03):
events like comedy shows,fashion shows we called it Sun
Devils Wear Prada at first itwas epic Pink to Purpose events,
where former Victoria's Secretmodel comes and shares her story
of leaving the industry tofollow Jesus.
We have men's events, wherehundreds of men come together to
talk about biblical manhood aswe camp, compete and Tim most
(31:23):
importantly consume largeamounts of meat.
And we do all that, all that'sto capture the hearts and minds
of college students, giving theman opportunity to connect with
our community and compel them toexplore their faith, that we
want them to say man, what is itabout these people?
We want to find out what theybelieve, because there's
something different.
That's our goal.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
So I'm curious from a historical perspective and you
may or may not know this, butyou've been in this industry for
quite a while, this ministryfor quite a while has the Epic
formula changed?
Was like say, go back ageneration or two, go back to
the Jesus movement days of the70s.
Would we use the same acronymfor young adults?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I think so.
As far as my experience, wecouldn't put it that tight back
then.
There's so much great contentin the world in the kingdom
right now, but when I think backto, we did a talent show about
25 years ago where we haddifferent students.
It was kind of like America'sGot Talent might be University
(32:26):
of Arizona's Got Talent.
By the way, that's my almamater Wildcat Country, wildcat
Country baby, you're kind ofconflicted.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I mean you work at ASU, yeah, yeah anyway, so I
gotta pause right there.
When ASU plays U of A, who doyou go for?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
well, I cheer out loud for ASU, but in my heart in
your heart?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
yeah, I am, I have to admit.
But no, I go Sunday and go goWildcats ASU.
But in my heart I'm In yourheart.
Yeah, I am double-minded, Ihave to admit.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
I have to repent.
But no, I get up on.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Sunday and go go Wildcats, and you guys need to
repent for judging mascots Comeon, we're the body of Christ.
Anyway.
So, you know, I think that theepic like we did this talent
show and we had students doingall different kinds of stuff
comedy skits and we had studentsdoing all different kinds of
stuff comedy skits, jump rope,all kinds of we literally packed
(33:17):
an auditorium 25 years ago andwe had like one fifth the work
to get people there and then weconnected with them and started
doing relationship with them.
I think it's all the way backto feeding the 5,000, man.
It's worked ever since Jesusdid it.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yes, so good, so experiential, participatory
image, rich and connected.
We've laughed.
We've laughed a lot.
Kids love to laugh.
I'm coaching high schoolfootball right now Gilbert,
christian, go Knights and havingso much fun and the more we can
laugh with the freshman tosenior, it doesn't change much.
You head to high school, kidsjust want to have a good time.
(33:53):
You talk a lot about the powerof laughter connected to faith
and there's a lot of brainresearch which talks about
laughter, actually the joycomponent moving us to
thoughtful, creative,peace-filled, future-focused
thoughts.
Right, and the power oflaughter is so, so huge
connected to faith.
I think a lot of times we lookat Jesus and we think Jesus is
just a stoic guy.
You know he doesn't laugh much,he doesn't engage much.
I love how the chosen is kindof debunking what I believe is a
(34:17):
myth.
I think Jesus is very humorousIf you can read how he and get
yourself into the mindset andthe body and the face of.
We don't talk about the face ofChrist much, but I think a lot
of times he's got a HarrisonFord schmirk when he's giving it
to the Pharisees Like, did youhear that one?
(34:38):
You know.
So I think Jesus loved to havea good time.
Our father is a father oflaughter.
He smiles over his kids, sotalk about the power of laughter
connected to faith.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
You bet Look into the camera though, Tim, because I
actually think you look a lotlike Jesus did.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
And especially with your beard, and so I'm working
on that bad boy.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I see your face, I don't know.
Anyway so.
Proverbs 17, 22 says a joyfulheart is good medicine.
So we've heard laughter is goodmedicine.
I wouldn't recommend it.
When someone breaks their arm,don't start laughing at them.
But I do think it's good forthe soul, and it comes from sort
of my family experience.
(35:19):
My dad was a doctor here inPhoenix, really super stoic,
serious, went to GeorgetownMedical School, read all the
time.
Just this academic guy, he'sgot a third.
He had a third of the alphabetbehind his name.
And so here's the thing, thoughwhen my dad would laugh in our
home the whole atmosphere wouldchange.
(35:40):
And so here's an ironic thingas a doctor, he would prescribe
medicine for other people, butwhen he would laugh, it would be
medicine for our family souls.
So ever since that, those earlydays as a kid, when my dad
would laugh at the honeymoonersor whatever it was on TV, I
would just go man, anything ispossible.
(36:00):
So I was something that justdrove me.
So I was in seminary around 15years ago and I took all my
credits and transferred themfrom seminary to comedy school,
and I found out that they wereteaching the same thing.
Tim, that was my first joke.
(36:24):
No, but seriously, that is ajoke, but I really did do that
and there's a guy that teachesstand-up comedy and I went to
two semesters to learn how to dobasically a little like intro
set for comedians.
And we began to find likereally A-list Christian
comedians that weren't cheesy orwork in secular clubs and we
began to bring them to campuses.
(36:46):
We started a brand for collegestudents called Outlaw Comedy.
We started a brand for collegestudents called Outlaw Comedy
and so we did 50 different showsacross the nation with 40,000
students in attendance andpretty much our commitment to
laughter.
Every year we launch the firstSunday we have a comedian come,
a friend of mine, ron Pearson,who's a world-class juggler.
He tells stories, jokes, thewhole thing.
(37:08):
He's a warmup comedian inHollywood and he tells his story
at the end and literally wefill our connect groups because
he's so raw and real.
People are like I want to be ina group where I can open up
like this guy just did.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
So, it's.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
it's just we love it, it's a part of our formula and
we're never going to stop doingit so good.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Um, we, we got to get into rhythm.
Shout out to Christ Greenfield.
We've had comedians.
We have about one a year or so,one of our kind of attract
events.
We need to do it.
We need, maybe, maybe it'severy.
You can't laugh enough, brian.
And it's not just comedians.
It's just like in communicatingthe gospel, like I love when
people it makes me reallyexcited to tell a
(37:55):
self-deprecating story where youknow the punchline is going to
hit and everybody's going tolaugh.
The church should focus, shouldfocus more.
And now my mind is going to therecent dumb story I told about
(38:17):
myself.
You remember, you remember Dumband Dumber, brian?
Yeah, were you a fan of kind ofDumb and Dumber?
I love Jim Carrey.
Yeah, jim Carrey is amazing.
So I and I'd love, love tomaybe hear the dumb story, one
dumb story that you did.
But when I was 13, I loved Dumband Dumber so much that me and
my friend Andy did it like ateen version video of Dumb and
(38:41):
Dumber.
I was, I was Jim Carrey Lloydand he was, he was Harry, and I
love the.
I love the scene because whatkid doesn't love that?
What boy doesn't love bathroomhumor?
And so you know why I like you,harry, because you're a regular
guy.
That's why I'm going to keepyou regular.
One hefty teaspoon for fast,effective relief.
And so we would play this scene.
(39:01):
You know the bathroom scene andstuff.
Well, here's the dumbest thing Iever did as a 13-year-old.
I was babysitting a little fiveyear old named Patrick and I
gave him.
I gave him what I thought was Xlax because he was annoying the
you know what out of me.
I thought I was going to yeah,it doesn't make any sense.
But I just seen Dumb and Dumberand so I went to his mom's
(39:22):
closet and I got out a PeptoBismol.
But I thought it was X lalax.
But the mom comes to me like aweek later and says Patrick said
you gave him more than onehefty teaspoon for effective
relief and he's not gone to thebathroom for some time.
If looks could kill, I wantedto lie so bad that I hadn't done
(39:44):
it.
I was.
I'm an awful human.
How does that even happen?
You know what am I thinking?
So, students, brains are notfully formed, but dumb and
dumber inspired me to dosomething.
Very, very dumb, brian.
I told that story in church andthis and this, uh, this was a
few weeks back and this, youknow middle-aged lady very stuck
(40:05):
Her jaw was literally like this.
So she's like I can't.
I was like stop judging.
We were talking about theapostle Paul.
Right, paul killed Christians.
For goodness sake, I didn'tkill Patrick, just gave him some
Pepto.
He's all right, patrick's aliveand well.
Today, by the way, that's right.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
You just helped his stomach.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Exactly, yeah, telling goofy stories, you don't
have to tell a story like thatif you don't want, but we're
real man, yeah, absolutelystories.
You don't have to tell a storylike that if you don't want, but
we're real man, yeah absolutelymy whole college career was a
joke.
I tell about that all the time.
Yeah, so let's get into.
The church should focus more ondemonstration the reality, the
(40:45):
rises and falls, the struggles,the joys, the successes more
than just explanation.
The church should focus more ondemonstration and less on
explanation.
So speak about the power ofaction rather than just words,
and feel free to share the storyof President Roosevelt as he,
as a leader, entered into WorldWar II.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah, bro, so fun.
So we all know the scripturetalks about without a vision,
the people perish.
And so we spent a lot of timeas leaders coming up with a
great vision statement.
I think that's important.
But I've discovered thatpassion trumps vision.
In other words, if peoplearen't passionate, I don't care
(41:26):
how well it's written, they'renot going to do anything.
But I've also found that actiontrumps everything.
So if we're not going to dosomething about our excitement
and our vision, then we won'thave any impact.
And so here's a story abouttaking action from World War II.
You guys know the story In 1939, hitler went on the offensive.
(41:48):
America was all uptight and justinto themselves.
After World War I, there wasbasically this isolationist
attitude we're not going to goto war, we're not getting
involved in something else, it'snot our business, they're going
to do what they're going to do.
We got our own issues, we'retrying to come out of World War
I.
And then you know, germany'snot our problem.
(42:09):
But over the next couple ofyears, hitler conquered most of
our allies in Europe, and soAmericans were bothered, but not
bothered enough to take action.
They still hadn't.
And here's what happened.
The fight came to us onDecember 7th 1941, pearl Harbor.
We know the story.
President Roosevelt decided I'mgoing to rally our country.
Everyone was mobilized for thewar effort.
(42:31):
He ramped up the war machine.
They called it.
Companies like Chrysler, ford,general Motors started making
tanks and planes.
The average Ford car had 15,000parts.
The B-24 Liberator long rangebomber had over 450,000 parts
and one bomber came off theassembly line every 63 minutes.
(42:52):
And that's because Americastopped isolating from the fight
and took action.
Because of that we won the war.
The same thing can happen oncollege campuses if the church
takes action.
So I've heard it said that thechurch is like a football game
22 guys in desperate need ofrest, surrounded by 52,000
(43:13):
people in desperate need ofexercise.
That's what I've heard, butPastor.
Tim.
As pastors and church leaders,we equip our church members to
share their story and the gospelstory in a clear, concise way.
We can win this battle.
Come on bro.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Amen.
Man and a whole generation canbe changed.
And people often lament we'renot a Christian country anymore.
All this kind of stuff.
I would love to see the nextgeneration, the next cycle, be
filled with passionate, engaging, jesus-centered, optimistic
(43:50):
Jesus followers.
Like that would radicallychange the United States of
America.
But you got to engage it andrecognize there's an enemy.
We focus on, the enemy beingpeople that are far from God
right or those that havedifferent ideas.
They're not the enemy, it'sSatan, the big liar, who's
getting us.
He's keeping us stuck in thestands.
I love that metaphor.
We're not playing and Jesuscasts a vision and then gave the
(44:14):
passion, the fuel.
What is the passion and fuel,brian?
It's the Holy Spirit, man, it'sthe wind of the Holy Spirit
that carries us along.
I don't know how you can be agrumpy, non-meaning filled,
pessimistic Christian.
I know how that takes placebecause sin and leads to
depression and selfishness andall that kind of stuff.
I get it, but like you've beenredeemed by Christ to crucified.
(44:34):
If I read the apostle Paul andthe mission of the early church,
I see Jesus fuel.
Like everywhere, it's lookingback with gratitude.
Let's just go timeline here.
They're always looking back atwhat God has done at what God
had done his promises.
He's been faithful in the past.
There's love, love in youridentity in Christ and love for
your neighbor in the present.
(44:55):
And then there's hope.
No matter what comes in thefuture, you know the crucified
and risen one who's going toreturn to make all things new.
So what do we have to be afraidof?
What are we so pessimisticabout?
We know who wins at the end ofthe day, right, brian?
So let's go, let's get active.
So how was the early churchlet's talk.
The early church, how was theearly church defined?
Through action.
What of their actions should weemulate today, in 2024?
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Well, as I read the book of Acts, we see that the
church is not just a place wherewe go to hear a message.
The church is a group of peoplewith a message on the move.
That's what I see.
And so in Acts 2, you know, wesee thousands of people getting
saved, baptized, and they startsharing the gospel.
They literally change a cityand then, throughout Acts, they
(45:39):
never stop preaching the gospel,even in the midst of
tribulation, persecution, arrestand martyrdom.
They don't pray for it to goaway, they pray for courage in
the midst of it.
So I call this the physics ofthe gospel, for courage in the
midst of it.
So I call this the physics ofthe gospel.
You guys remember, you've heardthis Newton's first law, the law
of inertia, that an object inmotion tends to stay in motion
(45:59):
and an object at rest tends tostay at rest.
Well, when Jesus said inMatthew 28, to go, that was all
about motion.
Go, move towards the harvest.
And the one thing I've learnedin over 35 years of ministry is
that a Christian in motion tendsto stay in motion, but a
Christian at rest tends to stayat rest and find fault with
Christians in motion.
It's sad, like I had a buddy inhigh school.
(46:22):
It's funny, he was in Goodwillhunting.
Do you remember that scenewhere Matt Damon's talking to
the guy in the bar, the guy withthe ponytail?
He goes how do you like themapples, that whole thing?
The guy with the ponytail wasmy classmate at Brophy High
School, scott Winters, and hisbrother is the mayhem guy at
Allstate with the band-aids.
They're doing brothers.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
They do look alike now, I can see it, you can see
it, I can totally see it.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah.
So he went home one he gotreally big working out.
He just worked out all summerlong and came back and there was
two options.
When you saw Scott, you couldeither say, man, scott got huge.
And you go up to him and go,dude, how did you do that?
I want to get big.
Or you would say, well, he'sjust doing steroids, I'm not
(47:02):
going to do that.
And so it's kind of like thatin the body of Christ.
Either there's something wrongwith that ministry if it's going
and growing, or how do you doit?
We want to learn from you.
And so I just think we got toremember the church is not a
place where we go to hear amessage.
It's a people with a message onthe move.
Students aren't going to cometo us, we have to go to them.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yes, so so good.
Coming down the homestretch man, I'm going to put a little
timestamp in that one.
And for those of you in theLutheran Church, missouri Synod,
what Pastor Brian just said isthe reason we're conflicted
today.
We're trying to justify if ourministry is struggling and we're
trying to define ourselves.
(47:44):
It's all an identity issue.
We're trying to find ouridentity in how I'm being
faithful we use this term.
Actually, brian, I'm being, ifyou're just faithful, it doesn't
matter if things are decliningand there's issues in your
church et cetera, but, man, I'mfaithful.
Well, there are people who areout there wondering if you're
(48:04):
gonna be faithful on the move.
They're not wondering this, butthe Holy Spirit is wondering if
you wanna join him in hismission out in the world.
And then we should look at ourbrothers and sisters.
You read the Infinite Game bySimon Sinek.
No, so the Infinite Game.
It's a decent concept.
The concept is my goal is notto win the game, it's to stay in
(48:28):
the game.
It's to stay in the game.
And for my church to stay inthe game, it's going to
necessitate multiplyingdisciples, sending out leaders,
raising up the next generation.
I just want to stay in the game, because it's an infinite game.
There's no winning per se.
So as I look at other, as I lookat other ministries, they're
just worthy rivals and rival inair quotes.
(48:48):
They're not our rival.
But I'm looking at, I'm likeman, what can I learn if I'm in
the industry?
Right, if I'm in themarketplace?
I'm looking at Amazon's beingwatched by a number of different
folks you know in the salesindustry.
So how do I look at them andsay, man, I got something to
learn.
That is the best perspective,rather than looking at that
ministry or whatever themovement is and saying, wow,
they're compromising something.
(49:10):
That's the scarcity, that's thescarcity mindset and it leads
us down a very, very depressing,dark, controlling power, hungry
path.
And there are some within theLutheran church Missouri Synod
that are going down that path.
I don't want that.
Jesus doesn't want that path.
He's given us great vision tosee the fields are ripe under
the harvest.
Pray to the Lord of the harvest, send out workers into his
(49:35):
harvest field.
So thank you for bringing thatkind of prophetic word to
challenge us.
Let's get on the move and stayon the move.
So everywhere you and your teamgo, you look for opportunities
to meet new people, to share thegospel, what we've just said,
like movement, laughter,engagement, all of that sounds
awesome to the extrovert, butmaybe some people who are the,
because we are both kind ofespecially when we're on, if you
(49:59):
will, we're kind of ragingextroverts.
You know, not everybody's aBrian Smith or the way God
uniquely and weirdly made me.
So how does such a strategythat you have right now for
engaging college students engagethe introvert who likes to keep
his or her tribe smaller?
Speaker 3 (50:19):
That's great, great question.
So here's what I tell ourchurch all the time If you're
following Jesus as Lord, you'recalled to make the Great
Commission your mission,regardless of your degree or
vocation.
And you're called to make theGreat Commission your mission
regardless of your degree orvocation, and you're called to
be a witness for Jesus,regardless of your spiritual
gifts, your stage of life oryour current circumstances.
(50:40):
Just read the book of Acts.
I think that's how we shouldact.
So some people think witnessingis like the responsibility of
full-time staff members who havethe gift of evangelism, but the
word evangelist only appearsthree times in Scripture.
On the other hand, the wordwitness appears over 30 times in
the New Testament.
It's used to describe everyonewho's following Jesus.
(51:03):
So here's what that means wedon't need a gift of evangelism
to be a witness.
We just need to be a witness,right.
So there are a few things wecan all do, though, to be a
witness.
We just need to be a witness,right.
So there are a few things wecan all do, though, to give
people hope.
First, no matter where you're atintrovert, extrovert write down
a list of your friends and prayfor them on a daily basis, and
pray that God would make yousalt and light in their life and
(51:26):
that you would just that Godwould break your heart for these
people, your friends, that youput on your list.
I started doing this with myneighbors recently and they're
coming out of the houses sayinghi, it's just crazy how it works
.
But back in the day, when I wason campus, after I gave my life
to Jesus, I started making alist of my friends and praying
for them, literally a few timesa week at prayer meetings, and
(51:50):
they would come out of thewoodwork and say I'd see them
and they'd go oh, I was thinkingabout you.
You know it's cool to see youand you know some of them would
get saved on campus.
Some of them five years later,10 years, 15, even 20 years
later.
I have the privilege of leavingsome of my classmates to the
Lord.
So secondly, after making thelist, invite them into your life
.
Statistics show that theaverage American makes one new
(52:13):
friend every five years.
So we've got to be, friendswith people.
Yeah, one new friend.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
That's why we're lonely, bro, absolutely.
That's why loneliness is anepidemic.
One new friend in five years.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Absolutely.
Rick Warren says write downwhat you love to do most and
then go, do it with unbelievers.
Whatever you love to do, turnit into an outreach.
So I like to say if you caninvite people into your house,
you can invite them into God'shouse, the church.
So the majority of students arenot immediately open to the
gospel when they arrive oncampus.
But they may be interested inexploring their faith, but most
(52:48):
aren't really ready to go all inand follow Jesus until they hit
a crisis at some point.
So we're currently inrelationship with thousands of
students across our movementbecause we believe when they hit
crisis, we want to be there, tobe in relationship with them,
to help tell them the message ofJesus.
And so we just got to tellpeople about Jesus.
(53:08):
I tell our church ourrelationship with Jesus is
personal, but it was neverdesigned to be private.
We got to tell people our storyand the gospel story.
Hey, if we just equip them todo that, they could do the
elevator pitch in three minutesor they could sit down for an
hour.
They could do a Bible study.
But we just got to be ready toshare the gospel whenever it
comes up and we got to startpraying that it would.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah and it will.
It will as crisis comes, assuffering comes, as things go
one way or another in ourcountry, in the world, there's
going to be ample opportunityfor us to meet that crisis with
the hope of the resurrection,praise God.
Finally, the last question.
This has been so much fun,brian, the time has flown.
You call reaching college kidsthe adventure of a lifetime.
(53:53):
Why so?
Speaker 3 (53:55):
Well, there's nothing like reaching the next
generation with the gospel.
By the way, I have moreT-shirts in my collection than
collared shirts.
I love it.
I collect swim shirts fromevery college campuses I visit
because I played water polo incollege.
But college students, again,are the most recruitable,
trainable and sendable people inthe world.
(54:15):
It's so listen, why did Jesuschoose college age guys when he
was on this earth?
Because they've always been thebest people to change the world
, their future leaders, businessleaders, husbands, fathers,
wives and mothers.
We have the privilege ofimpacting their lives and seeing
really an arc of their story,from freshman year all the way
(54:39):
through graduation, marriage,kids.
It's so incredible and you know, a lot of the revivals that
have happened start on collegecampuses.
It just wakes me up in themorning.
I love it.
I love it.
I never.
I don't want to do anythingelse.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
It's a calling, bro, and you're very unique and the
world needs your unique giftingand your, your multiplying
impact and your big vision, butfueled by just a very simple
passion to share the gospel withas many kids as possible.
(55:14):
I commend it.
I'm learning from you, we'llcontinue to learn from you and
from Hope Church Movement,praying for you, that it blows,
I mean just expands to all.
Let's go, let's just reach asmany kids as possible, and we
want to partner with you towardthat end.
So how can people connect withyou as they're listening to the
Hope Church Movement?
Brian?
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Well, by the way, on Amazon, my book Winning the
Battle to Belong is available.
If they want to buy that andread it and then reach out to us
on Instagram Hope ChurchMovement, mvmt.
Facebook Hope Church websiteHopeChurchMovementcom.
I'm on Facebook Brian Smith Srand Instagram Pastor B Smith
(55:57):
underscore Campus Change yourNetwork is a great way if you're
a church that wants to reach acampus near you.
We actually have a coaching,consulting and really we'll even
send teams to Spark Evangelismfor you to follow up with all
over the country.
Please get in touch with us.
That's Campus Changer Networkand I think it's
CampusChangerNetworkcom.
(56:17):
Yeah, and so please buy my book, not because none of the
finances go to me, it goes toour movement and I want more
people to be in the battle tobelong, winning that on the
campuses near their church.
And you'd take confessionalconservative Lutherans to train
(56:39):
to launch ministries Would youwelcome us Absolutely as long as
I have a haircut like yours.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Dude, you're the man.
This has been so, so much funand this is the American
Reformation podcast.
Please share this conversationtoday.
Think of some follower of Jesusin your world.
Don't let them know why you'resending it to them, but you're
like.
You know you could use some joy.
You could use some passion forreaching the next generation.
You need a infusion of meaningto be a grandpa, maybe to
(57:09):
college kids, and to come in.
Everybody, every generation,every age and stage needs to be
engaged in this conversation toreach the next generation, to
help them, to help cast visionfor them becoming the leaders
and the gospel multipliers.
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day,brian.
You're the man.
Man Love you, dude.
Thank you for this time.
Speaker 3 (57:28):
Love you, bro.
Thanks for having me on, allright.
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