January 22, 2025 • 40 mins
Overview:
You are an athlete. Yes, you. Even if you don't always feel like one. Even if you're not as fit as you'd like. Being an athlete is part of your identity and who you are. It influences your priorities, eating behaviors, sleeping choices, and even your relationships and career decisions. Athlete, coach, parent, and journalist Pam Moore joins Coach Adam Pulford to delve into the power of athlete identity and how leaning into it can improve all aspects of your life and performance.
Topics Covered In This Episode:
- Defining athlete identity
- Occupational therapy insights on athlete identity
- How athlete identity changes with life transitions (kids, jobs, marriage, etc.)
- Maintaining athlete identity when life gets busy
- Adapting athlete identity with advancing age
- How shame affects athlete identity
- How self compassion improves longevity in sport/training
Guest:
Pam Moore started out as an Occupational Therapist before committing to her passion for writing and becoming a journalist. A regular contributor to The Washington Post, her work has also appeared in Time, The Guardian, and Runner’s World, Bicycling Magazine, and for well-known brands like Peloton. She earned a certification as an Intuitive Eating Counselor.
Show Links:
- Pam Moore's Website
- Pam's Podcast Real Fit — Pam Moore
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Host
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for more than 14 years and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
Time Crunch fans.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford.
Your identity as an athlete howimportant is that to you?
How does it influence the racesthat you participate in or the
amount of training that you do?
How does it change throughoutyour life, with your career,
your kids and as you get older?
Or have you never even thoughtabout it?
(00:22):
Today, we'll touch on all thesequestions and why it matters
when it comes to your traininghabits, motivation and
performance.
I'm here again with Pam Moore,as you may remember from a
previous podcast I did with her,pam's an occupational therapist
by trade, a former columnist atthe Washington Post, an
(00:42):
endurance athlete herself and apodcast host.
So, pam, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks for having me back.
I'm really excited to be here,Adam.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah well, I'm excited to chat with you more.
I always enjoy our timestogether, whether we're writing
articles, doing podcasts ortrying to figure out life
together.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We want to go on a bike ride.
I feel like that's something wehaven't done together that we
need to do.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We should, and I come to Boulder enough.
So next time I'm in town I willlook you up and we'll go pedal
a bike.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That would be amazing .
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Perfect.
So I won't lie to you on thisone.
Pam, when I first spoke to youabout doing a podcast on athlete
identity, I wasn't sure if itwould land with our audience.
If it would land with ouraudience, but the more it took
shape, the more I thought aboutit.
Ask you some questions.
(01:32):
I think it's a message thatanyone and everyone can resonate
with and also benefit from.
So let's start with the basics.
When we talk about athleteidentity, what are we talking
about and why is it important?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
What are we talking about and why is it important?
Such a good question.
I think identifying as anathlete the biggest thing maybe
not the biggest thing, but animportant thing is it can be so
positive when you identify as anathlete.
All of a sudden, all of thesethings that I think people who
(02:02):
aren't athletes, they mightthink, wow, that must take so
much discipline to do all thattraining, to supplement it with
the weight training and you knowgetting in the gym on top of
the cycling and the healthyeating and the early mornings,
or you know fitting it in.
Wow, so much discipline.
I think most athletes wouldagree it doesn't really take a
lot of discipline when it'salready built into who you think
(02:24):
you are.
Right, that's kind of what youridentity is.
It's who you think you are.
It also has to do with culture.
If you identify as a cyclist,you're probably hanging out with
a lot of cyclists and that alsomakes it really easy to you
know, find people to train with,to get all your training
questions answered, like thatcan become your social life.
So it's almost like harder notto train than it is to train,
(02:48):
because that's that's yourpeople.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, I was going to say like if you're, if you're in
it, if you're in the thick ofit, you're in the culture, like
those habits are built.
So the, the, the actions, yeah,it's almost like subconscious,
it's automatic at that point youdon't have to try super hard to
be an athlete, you just kind ofare doing it right.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You just are.
Yeah, it's just who you are.
It's not like, how am I goingto fit my work?
It's not like, am I going towork out today?
It's like when am I?
How am I?
Where am I going to fit it in?
You know that you are so inthat way, having that identity
is great and it's great forbuilding community.
Like every time I've moved to anew place, I found people very
quickly through my endurancesports communities, yeah, even
(03:31):
swimming, I think.
Um, even though it probablytook me like six months to form
the relationships in the poolthat you would form in like a 10
mile run with the same person,cause you just have limited
seconds at the edge of the wall.
You know like you form thoserelationships.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It's just it's so true, like.
So, living on the front range.
Sorry to chime in, but livingon the front range.
Boulder, colorado Springs,moved out to DC and I was like
man, my endurance life is over,like I'm just going to become
this fat internet coach.
That's what I always like toldmyself.
I mean, it's a negative way ofputting it.
I got out here and some of mybest friends, now to this day,
(04:09):
are out here.
People who ride, hike, do allthe things, but like the network
of people that are out here,that ride is incredible.
Even more so and even morewelcoming.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I feel the same way.
Actually, even though I movedto Boulder largely because it's
a hot spot for triathletes, Ifound it much easier to make
friends in a new city when Imoved back to my hometown in
Rhode Island than in Boulder,because in Boulder people are
like well, I'd ride with you,but my coach told me to do hill
repeats.
(04:39):
I mean, buddies were way fasterthan me, they'd wait for me at
stop signs because there weren'tthat many women cyclists.
It's like you found somebodythat was weird like you.
You stuck together Totally.
(05:01):
It's a thing, it's a you are.
It shapes your good habitsright.
By the same token, I think ifyou over-identify with your
athlete identity, it can havesome harmful consequences.
I think if anybody who has beeninjured or has had to be in a
caregiving role which I guesswe'll get into as a parent, any
life event that interferes withyour ability to train and race,
(05:23):
can cause you to really questionwho am I and what is my worth,
and if that is something you arefacing, you might be
over-identifying as an athleteright when you start, you know
it's one thing to bedisappointed by the result of a
race or like getting dropped ona group ride.
It's another thing to questionyour self-worth when you don't
see the athletic results thatyou were looking for, and so I
(05:46):
think we have to be careful toseparate our worth from that
identity.
Because you know, something Itell friends and family and that
I sometimes have to remindmyself is like, hey, I don't
love you because you're perfect,I don't love you because of how
you you know, for my kids, forexample, I don't love them
because they scored well on atest or did well in a swim meet.
(06:06):
Like I don't care about that.
Honestly, I don't even lovethem because of their
personalities.
I loved them before I even knewtheir personality, when they
were a newborn who did nothing.
You know, like I'm sorry, I'msure everybody listening who has
a newborn loves their newborns.
I love mine too, but you don'tlove it because of the way it
cries, poops and sleeps.
You just love it.
(06:27):
And so if you could think aboutloving yourself in that way,
like totally unconditionally,like you have worth just because
you're here, that can solve alot of the over-identification
problems.
But we can talk about that later, but that's I think that's in a
nutshell to me what athleticidentity means.
And just a little backstory.
You mentioned that I have abackground as an occupational
(06:48):
therapist.
I think a lot of people don'treally know what OT is Like.
Maybe they know like, oh, mykid had it for sensory issues or
ADHD, or my mom had it when shewas recovering from a hip
replacement.
Ot's roots are in mental healthand we talk a lot.
Yeah, it's actually true.
Um, we started out in psychhospitals in the around the turn
of the century, which is ironicbecause, um, mental health
(07:11):
funding is like the first thingto go when governments and
healthcare systems want to cutthings.
So I think there aren't verymany OT jobs in mental health
anymore.
But, like, we talked a lot ingraduate school about like sort
of the theoretical underpinningsof like why do occupations
matter?
Occupations are more than justyour job.
They're like everything you do,like from eating to training to
(07:33):
you know, farming, likewhatever it is you do in your
culture.
Those things are meaningful toyou and our job as OTs is to
help you get back to thosethings right.
But the first thing we need tounderstand as professionals is
why does that stuff matter?
How does that inform how yousee yourself and why?
You know I might not think thatthe app, the occupation of like
(07:54):
I don't know, basket weaving, Imight not see the value in that
, but that's because I don'tunderstand your culture and that
has deep roots for you and yourfamily or your culture or your
religion or whatever you know.
So, so that's, um, that'ssomething we talked a lot about,
um, in my OT background.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, interesting.
So just kind of recap so far,athlete identity, viewing it as
neutral, viewing it as it justis.
However, when it gets to have,like this, extreme thought,
behaviors like shame, which,which is a thing right, you can
shame yourself into doingsomething or you can motivate
yourself into doing somethingright?
That, that shaming and thatextreme behavior, that's what we
(08:30):
want to talk about as kind ofavoiding right.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Okay, which I'd say to.
In the athletic culture there'sa lot of shame.
There's both self-shame andalso shame upon others.
That's maybe even starts asfunny and then it gets a little
out of control.
But again, go in the positiveway.
Motivate yourself to get aworkout, motivate yourself to
have that recovery shake in yourrecovery window, as opposed to
(08:55):
shaming yourself into it, andthat's going to be the more
positive right.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I totally agree and I think there's a time and a
place for shame, but I think itshould be very limited, like, I
guess, what I'm trying to like.
I can identify with the shame.
I definitely did a lot ofself-shaming and in my
experience it's not sustainablebecause if you're coming from a
place of shame, you will notlisten to your body, you will
listen harder to that place inyourself that is telling you
(09:18):
you're not good enough.
Unless you do X, y and Z and Ipromise you it might not happen
right away, but it will lead toovertraining, it will lead to
injury, it will lead to burnoutand, if nothing else, you're not
having fun with it.
If you're seeing it as somesort of benchmark to like
satisfy your ego, that cannotwork forever.
It might work initially, itcannot work forever.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Exactly, exactly, and that's part of the motivation
and that's part of the habitsthat I want to kind of talk
about in this podcast is like,why are you doing what you're
doing?
Is it born out of shame or isit born out of motivation for a
positive goal?
It comes down to self-talk, andwe'll talk more about that here
shortly.
But what is your self-talk?
(10:00):
Become aware of it, and is itbenefiting you?
Is it, is it uplifting to you,because that that will help you
in that performance withlongevity over time, or not?
And so in that way I think wecan all identify that.
You know, when we were a kid,as an athlete, if you were an
(10:20):
athlete as a kid, you viewedyourself as one way.
As you get up, you know, maybethrough college, into your
twenties, your thirties, yourforties, this identity shifts
over time.
So for you, pam, I mean maybestart maybe with yourself of how
that changed just when you wentfrom like twenties to thirties.
And then how did it change whenyou became a mother?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, Um, I identified for a very long time
as being terrible at sports andgradually became an endurance
athlete.
And the reason I was Iidentified that way is because I
was terrible at sports.
I was picked last foreverything.
I was terrified of the ball.
I also I've been nearsighted,like extremely nearsighted,
since I was six, but I did notwear glasses until I was 10.
(11:03):
Not that I didn't have glasses.
I had the glasses.
I was very vain.
I would not wear them.
So when you cannot see the ball,you're not going to catch the
ball, and when you don't catchthe ball, it's not fun and you
don't want to do it.
It's this feedback loop.
So, and I'm sure I'm not likegenetically blessed, it's not
(11:23):
like my parents are pro athletesand it's like this weird
anomaly that you know.
But it was funny because Ireally remember my first Ironman
.
I was in my late twenties andmy sister made some reference to
like all these crazy athletesand I was like, or maybe she
(11:44):
mentioned triathletes but I waslike, oh yeah, but I'm not one
of them.
And she was like what do youthink you are if you're not a
triathlete?
You're about to swim two and ahalf miles and bike 112 miles
and run a marathon all in oneday what are you?
And I was like I'm somebody whodoes triathlons.
It took me a long time torealize, oh wait, I'm an athlete
.
It was not like something thathappened all at once.
(12:06):
It was sort of a gradual thing,probably in my late 20s, early
30s, when I was like, oh yeah,all these years that I've been
like wearing the spandex andprioritizing the workouts and
like all my friends are people Iwould not recognize in the
grocery store if we ran intoeach other in regular clothes,
without helmets or goggles orsome form of spandex, like, oh
(12:26):
yeah, I guess I'm an athlete.
Um, but then you know, you have.
I had my first kid in my early30s and my experience as a mom
was just like everything changedall of a sudden.
I was like you know, I wasprivileged, lucky to have a
maternity leave, but then I'mlike not going to work, Like I
(12:47):
identified very strongly withwork I didn't realize how
strongly until it wasn't therefor me and I was like whoa, whoa
, All I do is like stay home andtake care of a baby.
Who am I?
And you know, my body was stillrecovering from pregnancy and
childbirth and I remember sayingto my husband like my life is
(13:08):
flipped upside down.
I don't know who I am Like, doyou and he?
I don't know if this is theexperience.
I don't think he's aspokesperson for all men, but he
was like no, I'm not havingthat experience.
You know, he was still going towork, His body hadn't been
turned inside out, didn't changefor him all that much yeah.
Yeah, no, it really didn't Ifanything for him.
(13:28):
It was like more pressure to bethe provider, financially, for
our family, so that I think hehad to like double down harder
on that identity, which I'm surethat's no picnic, I know that
it's not, but one of the thingsthat I did after my first kid
was born she was born inFebruary I put a sprint
triathlon on the calendar forJune and I was like, come hell
(13:49):
or high water, I'm doing thatthing and it was not pretty.
And you know what's funny, Irealized in hindsight the swim
went really poorly.
Even though I'm a terribleswimmer, I've never been
intimidated by open water and Ifelt like I was hyperventilating
on that swim and it took me abecause I had lost so much
weight so quickly after givingbirth, but I certainly hadn't
(14:12):
lost like all the weight.
Looking back, I'm like mywetsuit was actually suffocating
me.
That's why I had such a badswim, but I didn't know it.
So I guess my body image waslike surprisingly good, but um
so that happens and everything.
Yeah, but, like being an athlete, it was important to me to do
(14:33):
that little sprint triathlon afew months after giving birth
because I wanted to continue tobe who I was.
I was like, even if I'm notgoing to work and even if I
don't still see my friends asoften as I used to, a lot of
things are different for me.
That has to be the same, likeit has to be, and that was
really good for my mental healthand I'm glad that I committed
(14:54):
to that and things changed forme.
Before that I was really intotriathlons.
I love going for long bikerides.
Um the summer I got pregnant.
It was like we were going to meand my husband were talking
about either doing the triplebypass, which probably many of
your listeners know, but if theydon't, it's like an iconic um
Colorado bike ride that takesyou something like 117 miles
over three passes.
(15:15):
It's like over 10,000 feet ofclimbing.
It's a big deal and I was likeI'm either going to get pregnant
or do that ride.
And then I got pregnant.
I was like I'm not doing thatride and what's fun is my kid is
about to turn 13 and I justsigned up for the ride.
I'm doing it.
Um, yeah, I'm so excited.
It'll be my first time doing itthis summer.
Um, maybe my last, I don't know.
But all of this to say, thingschanged after she was born.
(15:37):
I didn't have all the time thatI had, so I really focused hard
on running, cause that's themost time efficient of the three
sports that I was into.
Um, and I just had to changewhat being an athlete looked
like for me.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, and I think too I mean our time crunched
athletes will resonate with thisis you have kids and if you had
more time where you're stilltime crunched before kids now
you're extremely time crunchedwith kids.
You have to be so much moredialed.
You have to be so much moreflexible with your time.
You have to be really creativesuper creative.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And it's some really creative things in those early
years.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So let's hear about one.
But first I will say here'swhere that shame comes in, right
, Because you say well, I wasdoing 10 hours a week and now
I'm only doing six.
You suck, or something likethat.
It's like I was doing 10, nowI'm doing six.
But you know what, that's thereality, and you don't even have
to put a positive spin to it.
(16:34):
You say that's the reality, butI can still do six.
So let's do six, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
But it's kind of looking at like what is the
minimum, um, minimum effectivedose, just like you might do
with a medication.
Or what's the minimum?
What do I need?
What's the bare minimum I needfor to stay somewhat fit Maybe
I'm not as fast as I was, but Iwant to stay somewhat fit.
I want the mental healthbenefits I want to maintain my
identity.
What would that look like forme?
What's the minimum?
(17:00):
Define what that is.
That's what I would say.
Define what that is and then gofrom there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, agreed, and I actually so, as you're a
listener on the podcast, so youmay have even heard this.
But we had an audience memberwrite in and said basically what
is that minimum dose time?
So time crunched, what is goingto give me benefit?
And my answer was super simpleat first.
Then I gave some examples.
But like, just start.
Like and that's the beautyabout being an athlete Like we
have some good habits in place.
I would say take action andjust start going 20 or 30
minutes.
You can change it from cyclingto running if you want to make
(17:37):
it a little bit more bang forthe buck, but four times a week
of 30 minutes is better thannothing.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Absolutely Something is.
That's something I reallyembraced since having kids.
I used to think why would Iexercise for just 20 minutes?
That's so dumb to change myclothes and maybe have to take a
shower who has time for that?
And now I'm like I don't havetime, like not to do that, like
I need sometimes, if that's allI have, that'll get the job done
.
I agree with you Like trial anderror See start small and see
(18:05):
if that helps.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
If it doesn't help, try more or keep it short, but
intense.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, and I also think too with with the.
I don't have kids, so I can'tspeak specifically to this, but
I coach a fair number of peoplewith kids and we always look for
creative solutions and creativepockets to get some volume
Right.
And usually that'scommunicating with the spouse or
the other family members of youknow, saturday's my day to
train, sunday, sunday's your dayto train.
So something as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Something that we set up like from the very beginning
which has kind of held out allthese years.
Yeah, the oldest one is almost13.
Right off the bat we decidedTuesday, thursday were my early
morning to do what I wanted andmy husband's job was to do
whatever with the kids, like getthem out the door, give them
breakfast, whatever the dayneeded.
And Monday, wednesday were hisdays and that's been like, and
(18:54):
Friday was kind of a free forall and we've kind of maintained
that basic structure all theseyears, like we'll flip it around
based on oh, my group ride isTuesdays.
I really want to do that.
Can I have whatever?
We, you know, flip it as needed.
But having a basic structure inplace so you don't have to
renegotiate it every day orevery week is awesome.
Highly recommend that.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, it's something to fall back on from that
framework standpoint so thatyour like lizard brain can be
like okay, tuesdays, thenThursdays, those are my days,
all good, we'll help get youthrough the like crappy times of
I haven't worked out for threedays oh, I feel like a slug and
all these other like weirdself-talk things that come up.
You can always see the light atthe end of the tunnel, and if
(19:35):
you can't see the light at theend of the tunnel, it's like
start digging and find the light, because that will that will
help you get there, and I thinktoo, in that way, I do have some
athletes where they will becomeempty nesters soon, and so you
start to plan on how much timeyou're going to have when the
kids have flown the coop, right,whether that is finally taking
the big trip or having a yearwhere you actually um, you know,
(19:56):
do big races January all theway through October or something
like that.
Get yourself excited when, whenyou come back and you will have
time again.
I guess is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, I think that's huge, that mindset of like
realizing this is a season it'sreally hard to see when you're
in it.
I think if you had told me likeyou'll do the triple bypass
someday but your kid will be 13.
I would have been like what, 13years from now seems like
forever, but it's not.
(20:26):
It's not Like I had wanted tojoin this women's cycling team
for a long time and I felt likelike I couldn't do any group
rides for the first few years ofmy kids' lives because I mean I
could have done whatever Iwanted.
I did not prioritize thatbecause I was like I want to
spend the precious time I haveriding my bike, not driving to
the bike ride and waiting around.
And then, you know, everyperson on the ride adds another
(20:48):
five minutes with the armwarmers and the peeing and the
stopping and the whatever.
I was just like I don't havetime for that.
But then eventually I did andthat brings me a lot of joy that
I now do and it's so great andit's just like, yeah, that just
wasn't an option for me fiveyears ago, but it is now.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, exactly Exactly , and I think you know, again,
all these, all these things thatwe're talking about, of how it
shifts and changes with theseasons.
For many you know manylisteners, um, listening here on
the podcast, it's like they'vekind of chosen to be an athlete
for life.
I mean, some people listening,it's just you know they're just
getting into it and it's, youknow, it's exciting, it's
confusing, it's all the things,um.
(21:36):
But for a lot of people, and alot of people that I know have
tuned in and asked questions,they've been doing this for
several years and as thingschange, you have to adapt and
change with it.
And I know that everybodylistening here is an aging
athlete because we're allgetting older with each passing
moment.
Now, some of these agingathletes are younger, some of
them are older.
So, pam, how do you seeidentity change as athletes hit
their forties, their fifties?
The men lose testosterone, thewomen go through menopause.
(21:58):
Power or pace is going thedirection we don't want it to.
How does the identity change?
Or to couple with an athlete.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
What I see in happier athletes is that the happier
athletes maintain their identitybut they change their behaviors
, whereas the less happyathletes they still identify
just as strongly and they expectto be doing the same amount of
training, to require the sametype and amount of recovery, to
(22:32):
be continuing to place in all oftheir races, and they're
frustrated because they're likebanging their head against a
wall, because that's impossible.
Aging happens.
You can't avoid it, and so themore successful, happy,
sustainable athletes that I seetend to accept my body is
changing and so my expectationsare changing.
(22:52):
I might, instead of having likea seven-day training cycle, I
got a 10-day training cycle, soI can fit in two really hard
workouts in 10 days instead ofseven days.
Or I accept that I need moresleep, or I accept that I need
more downtime.
Or many runners that I know havetransitioned to trail running
because it's like comparingapples to oranges when you're
(23:13):
looking at road times versustrail times, even one trail to
another, there's no comparison,right?
So they're focusing ondifferent sports or different
aspects of the same sport andjust like they're in it more for
joy than competition, I thinkespecially I think with the loss
of testosterone, people's egossort of naturally recede.
(23:36):
I think it's a function ofmaturity and probably somewhat
hormones.
But I do think as we age westart to hopefully be more
comfortable with who we are andwhat matters and I like I can
speak for myself.
Like I was so obsessed with myperformance in the past because
(23:56):
I didn't feel that great aboutmyself and I was using it as
like kind of a low hanging fruitto be like, oh well, if I can
complete these hours of trainingand if I can reach these finish
lines and if I can have a PR,then I feel good about myself.
And I realized now that's arecipe for shame and it's just
not fun to live that way, torealize now I've gone through
(24:18):
some therapy and I have wetalked about this offline a
little bit the idea ofself-compassion and if that's
new for your listeners, I think,the idea of self-compassion it
sounds really sappy.
It sounds like, oh my God, if Igive myself compassion, I'm a
loser.
I'm a lazy loser, I'm a stupidsnowflake and I'm probably just
(24:39):
going to lie on the couch allday and eat Pringles if I give
myself a pass.
But that's not whatself-compassion is.
Self-compassion is simplyrealizing that you're worthy, no
matter what.
It's actually very simple, kindof hard to do, but the more you
practice, the easier it gets.
And when you extend yourselfcompassion, you'll find that,
(25:00):
like you, it doesn't mean thatyou're like, oh, this race got
hard, I think I'm going to dropout.
It's, this race got hard and Ibelieve that I can finish it.
Oh, and I believe that if I'mexperiencing like heat stroke
symptoms, I'm going to do thesmart thing and listen to my
body instead of my ego.
So I think, overall, being aself-compassionate athlete makes
(25:22):
you a more sustainable athleteand a happier athlete, because
at the end of the day, most ofus are doing this for fun.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yes, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And everybody needs to hearthis men, women, juniors, older
athletes everybody needs to hearthat because, again, if you're
on that struggle bus and you'relike super hurting, but you're,
you know you haven't lost a limband heat stroke is not there,
yeah, it's still finished,because there's a lot of lessons
(25:49):
to be learned just by crossingthe finish line.
Meanwhile, if you're in thebreak and in a break of three,
right, and you're just on thatstruggle bus, but hey, you know
what, if you sit on and makesome good adjustments, get that
heart rate down, taking a gel,maybe you're still on the podium
, right.
So it's tuning into what'sgoing on, accepting the
(26:10):
realities, like, oh, I wasfeeling really good, now I'm not
.
What do I need to do?
We did a podcast about intuitiveeating.
This podcast may be intuitiveliving or intuitive training.
It's just that simple awarenessof tuning into what is reality
and then framing it up so thatyou still have that joy over
time.
That you still have that joyover time.
(26:31):
And athletes have a terribletime with this because of our
self-talk, of the, the falsethings that we say should, when
it is just like kind of uh, madeup in our heads, right.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Absolutely Um are you ?
Have you ever interviewed AaronAyala on your podcast?
Are you familiar with her?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I'm not no.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
She's lovely, she's a sports psychologist and an
elite cyclist.
She came on my podcast a whileago and talked about
self-compassion.
She told me actually we talkedabout this, for I read an
article for bicycling about likethings you can do to make a
hard ride easier and onestrategy that she had that I
love.
It's like a form of acceptance.
She said, instead of going I'mtired, just simply reframe and
(27:12):
go.
I'm having the thought that I'mtired.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You haven't, like told yourself something
ridiculous like I'm energized.
That would be a lie.
We wouldn't believe that youknow.
So it's not like some manifestnew age affirmation.
It's separating yourself fromthe experience a little bit so
that you have a little distance.
The thought isn't necessarilythe reality, it's just you
observing that you're having thethought.
(27:36):
It makes a lot easier todisconnect from that thought and
let a new thought come.
Because that's what thoughts do?
They kind of come, they go.
You don't have to attach toevery single thought.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, a hundred percent, and that's.
I'm no sports psychologist,okay, so let's lay that out
there right now.
But I would say that's theexact strategy I use in my
coaching practice.
Uh, when we're framing up agoal, a race strategy, or we're
you know doing a retro on how arace weekend went, or something
like that, and I would say Iwould say, I mean, I didn't come
(28:06):
up with that strategy myself,it came a lot from a Byron Katie
.
So if anyone wants a framework,I love her.
Yeah, check out her.
That process is called the workand she wrote a book called
loving what is has nothing to dowith athletics.
However, I have found a Supremelinkage to self-talk and the
(28:27):
athlete in a performance settingwith using that strategy of
asking four questions and turnit around.
It's because it again, you gettired.
You start telling yourselfyou're the worst.
You're not, you were nevergoing to finish.
What are you doing up All the?
If you just slow down and likelook at those thoughts just kind
of like floating up there andbe like whoa, where, where did
Alan come from?
(28:47):
Right, and you can let it go,come back in the moment and and
figure out a way to be like Isaid, just find it's like a
little bit of freshening upthere so you can get back in the
game that's what I do.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Before you can even change the thought, you have to
observe that it's actually justa thought.
That's right, not the truth.
Um.
Will you link to byron katie'swork in the in the um in the
show notes, because it's sopowerful and anyone can do it in
like five minutes.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
For sure.
Yeah, anyone can do it in fiveminutes, and I think when you
get good at it, you just thensubconsciously do it anytime
that you uh see a thought comethrough your head.
And another tool that I use forthe.
I don't know if some people maybe polarized by this, but Sam
Harris is another one.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Um, I use his app on um waking up, and he has Sam
Harris, the Stanford neurologistwho has the podcast called um
making sense.
I love him.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, yeah, he's good , so I mean, he's kind of he's
dry, so uh.
So I and I, I absolutely lovehim.
But if people are looking forsome resources out there and
again, these two podcasts I'mdoing with Pam, they're a little
different than my actionablepercentages of FTP and all this
kind of stuff, but what I'mdoing is I'm equipping your
(30:02):
brain to how to proceed for agreat new year of being an
athlete and and we we spend somuch time talking about how to
train the body, and I do that onthe podcast.
When I'm working one-on-onewith an athlete, I'm doing like
sneaky things as well as like inyour face, things of how we
(30:23):
train the brain as well as thebody.
Yeah, and I would argue.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
You know, you mentioned, like oh, byron Katie,
it's not really about sports,but it's so helpful.
I mean I would almost arguethat like I'm older I get, the
more experiences I've had,everything pertains to
everything.
Like there is no separation.
Like everything I've learned onthe bike pertains to life,
everything I've learned at workpertains to the bike.
It's all the same thing.
Like case in point.
Like I have this background as ajournalist, right, but
(30:50):
journalism is changing so much.
I'm sure everyone listening isI don't know if you're in like
you guys are in the athleticcorner of the internet, probably
, but like in the journalismcorner of the internet, all I
see is um outlets folding leftand right, um, the rates that
I'm earning are like the same asI was earning six years ago.
It's not sustainable.
And if I identify so hard as ajournalist, I'm just gonna be
(31:11):
like I suck, there's nothingleft for me, there's nothing
left to do, ah.
But instead I'm like, yeah,that's definitely part of my
identity and I love going to mylike journalism, happy hours and
stuff like that.
And I have learned so manyskills from journalism.
Like I'm a really goodinterviewer, I'm a really good
listener, I know how to look ata situation from different
angles.
(31:31):
I read media critically.
There's just like and just thesame.
If you identify so hard as anathlete that like when you can't
sustain training 20 hours aweek anymore and now you're like
a failure, it's like, no,actually that experience has
poised you to do so many otherthings, or to train differently,
or to explore pickleball.
(31:52):
You now you have all this timeand you know you have the
discipline to do whatever it isyou want to spend your time
doing.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think for the listenerswho may be raising an eyebrow of
, uh, I won master's nationalchampionships and now Pam's
telling me to pick up, pick aball.
What?
Maybe pick a ball is great.
Nothing against that, notnecessarily what we're saying.
We're saying become adaptable,because if you're an elite
(32:18):
athlete, you're a master'sathlete, weekend warrior, the
one who's more adaptable isgoing to win.
So if you're interested inwinning, become adaptable.
In in up here in your brain.
That's where it starts.
And so, in that way, what canathletes do here?
What can you do when thatidentity changes and you and you
identify that what I was doingis no longer working as
(32:39):
effectively as it used to get?
You got to change with it.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And it's kind of as simple as like going with the
flow or not, like you can fightthe flow, but it's going to be
really hard and you're probablynot going to win.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
You can do it whatever way you want.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Totally, totally, like at some point with my
athletes it was talking with Pam, I think I was saying off
camera, like some of my 60 yearold, 60 plus athletes, you know
that that power's going down FTPand a row in sprint power and
so part of the strategy issaying, yep, it's going down,
but let's mitigate that downfall, that downfall.
(33:21):
So you just accept the fact thatit is going down, but what we
can do is not let it fall asmuch.
Typically, I find that FTPactually can last a lot longer
than if we need to, and Icovered this in a couple of my
podcasts with Joe Friel, which Iforget the numbers itself.
Just Google or, sorry, go toApple Podcasts, go to Time
Crunch Cyclist type in Joe Friel.
You'll find him there in theAging Athlete and in there too
(33:42):
he talked about changing thestructure of your training week.
Move toward a nine and one,just like Pam was saying, a
10-day cycle versus a six andone or a seven-day cycle,
because as we age maybe we get alittle bit more time rich and
the frequency is more importantthan that like huge volume or
huge intensity.
(34:02):
So having more frequency as youage is really successful for
some of these athletes goingthrough the decreased
testosterone, menopause and allthe things that we mentioned.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, and I think too , like and this is advice, I
think not just as I mean, likeyou mentioned, we are aging.
Every minute, every secondwe're aging.
But whether you consideryourself an aging athlete or
you're in your 20s, the new yearis a great time to just
reevaluate what makes a workoutor a season or a race successful
.
For me, right, like whenever Ido a race, I go into it with
(34:35):
some performance goals, but alsoprocess goals, so that, even if
the performance doesn't go howI want, I've got the process
goals built in which I have muchmore control over.
So I would say, like, if youare aging and you're not sure
where you fit with your athleticidentity, maybe just ask
yourself what does success looklike?
And if success is only definedas watts or times or places,
(35:01):
maybe you either want to give upthe sport Cause it's just not
fun for you anymore, or see ifyou can change the parameters of
what success looks like for you.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, no, I think that's right and I think too,
along with that is like I wantour listeners, I want my
athletes to have outcome goalsand I want them to achieve it
via wise process goals.
So process is how we get there,outcome is what we achieve
right Podium or power production, whatever.
And I want those to berealistic and also aggressive.
(35:30):
Okay, so, like when you'redoing that, don't just like
throw some huge number out ofthe air, like ground it in
something.
Use science, use past historyin order to make good goals.
And if you do that, I think alot of this takes care of itself
.
But that's the framework here.
Now, if, if you're just nothitting those goals and the
(35:51):
process isn't going well, youneed to reframe it.
If you're one of these athleteswhere it's like, if you think
I'm not going to ride today, oh,you're such a failure, you
haven't trained enough, who areyou?
And you're not getting to thebig races anymore, what are you
going to do?
Just give up.
If that's some of yourself-talk, watch it, catch it,
(36:11):
maybe like get with Pam, likehire a coach and delve into some
of this self-talk, becauseself-talk, my opinion, it's way
more powerful as an athlete andas humans than we think it is.
And if there is anything thatyou take away from this podcast
for the rest of this year, workon your self-talk.
Maybe a little bit more thanyou're stressing out about FTP
(36:36):
power, and I bet you'll unlocksome wild gifts between your
ears.
You still got to do yourtraining, Okay, you still got to
do your training.
You still have to get after it.
You still have to have the harddays and the long days.
However, just check thatself-talk a hundred percent.
Yeah, so I kind of went on asoapbox there, pam, but as we're
(36:58):
, as we're starting to like wrapthis up a little bit, I think,
for for me is you want to live alife that has a mixture of both
athlete life and non-athletelife going on, so that you uh
don't become like the weirdendurance athlete that goes to
the party and he like sits inthe corner and he's like sipping
his water and and and just kindof like being, uh, the weird
(37:21):
endurance people that we areright Like.
You want to have a good mixturegoing on, and that's like my
point number one.
My point number two isself-talk.
If you start to observe andbecome aware of that and there's
a lot of negativity in therestart changing around.
Use some of the techniques thatPam was talking Google Byron,
katie and the work.
Check that out.
Those are really good resources.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah, I agree, and I think that if that's not enough
like I think a lot of people arewalking around with like trauma
from you know shit, theirparents said shit, their coaches
said maybe you need to get witha good sports psychologist and
work that stuff out in someone'soffice, Cause it can be hard to
go there by yourself.
If you know, try it for sure,but if it's not working, don't
(38:04):
give up and go.
Oh, this wasn't for me.
You might need a little supportand there is no shame in that.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, totally, and I think to the other podcasts that
I did with Pam.
We talked about unlearning someof the stuff that we've learned
and carried through with us inlife and when we're looking to
change something big like that,you have to unlearn.
That's the examine life that wetalked about and in that
(38:29):
podcast that had to do withintuitive eating.
But if you missed that podcast,go back and check that out,
because I think these twopodcasts link pretty well
together.
Podcasts go back and check thatout, because I think these two
podcasts link pretty welltogether.
And I do want to say to ourlisteners, if any of this today,
as well as that previouspodcast, resonated with them,
they need more Pam Moore intheir life.
(38:50):
So, pam, where can they findyou and how does that work?
Are you taking on clients?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, Thank you for the plug, Adam.
Absolutely, I help as anintuitive eating coach.
I help women heal theirrelationships with food and
exercise.
So particularly this episode isreally pertaining to that
exercise piece.
If you're noticing that, likeyou only feel good about
yourself if you've trained Xamount of hours, if you've met X
metrics, um, and it's justtaking over your life to where,
(39:15):
like you said, you're eitheractually in the corner or like
metaphorically in the corner,like you're in the conversation,
but your mind is calculatingwhat time you need to leave this
party so you can wake up earlyenough to get in the miles or
whatever.
Uh, let's talk.
My best way to find me is mywebsite Pam dash more M O O R
Ecom.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Perfect, perfect.
Well, pam, this has been apleasure, uh, always talking
with you, and this time we'vegot a couple of microphones to
record what we're talking about.
And I do think, like I said,these two episodes may be a
little different than, uh, theflavors I've put out there
before, but, I think, probablyeven more important.
So, pam, thank you for sharingyour knowledge and taking the
(39:58):
time, um out of your day in dayin Boulder to talk and share
your knowledge with us.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
My pleasure.
Time Crunch Cyclist is actuallylike one of the podcasts that I
frequently listen to, so it'sjust super exciting to be part
of it, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Awesome.
Well, thank you for listeningand let's pod again soon.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Okay, Thanks, Pam.
Thanks for joining us on theTime Crunch Cyclist podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even moreactionable training advice, head
over to trainrightcom backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
Each week you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
(40:35):
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
Welcome back.
Time Crunch fans.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford.
Your identity as an athlete howimportant is that to you?
How does it influence the racesthat you participate in or the
amount of training that you do?
How does it change throughoutyour life, with your career,
your kids and as you get older?
Or have you never even thoughtabout it?
(00:22):
Today, we'll touch on all thesequestions and why it matters
when it comes to your traininghabits, motivation and
performance.
I'm here again with Pam Moore,as you may remember from a
previous podcast I did with her,pam's an occupational therapist
by trade, a former columnist atthe Washington Post, an
(00:42):
endurance athlete herself and apodcast host.
So, pam, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks for having me back.
I'm really excited to be here,Adam.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah well, I'm excited to chat with you more.
I always enjoy our timestogether, whether we're writing
articles, doing podcasts ortrying to figure out life
together.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We want to go on a bike ride.
I feel like that's something wehaven't done together that we
need to do.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We should, and I come to Boulder enough.
So next time I'm in town I willlook you up and we'll go pedal
a bike.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That would be amazing .
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Perfect.
So I won't lie to you on thisone.
Pam, when I first spoke to youabout doing a podcast on athlete
identity, I wasn't sure if itwould land with our audience.
If it would land with ouraudience, but the more it took
shape, the more I thought aboutit.
Ask you some questions.
(01:32):
I think it's a message thatanyone and everyone can resonate
with and also benefit from.
So let's start with the basics.
When we talk about athleteidentity, what are we talking
about and why is it important?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
What are we talking about and why is it important?
Such a good question.
I think identifying as anathlete the biggest thing maybe
not the biggest thing, but animportant thing is it can be so
positive when you identify as anathlete.
All of a sudden, all of thesethings that I think people who
(02:02):
aren't athletes, they mightthink, wow, that must take so
much discipline to do all thattraining, to supplement it with
the weight training and you knowgetting in the gym on top of
the cycling and the healthyeating and the early mornings,
or you know fitting it in.
Wow, so much discipline.
I think most athletes wouldagree it doesn't really take a
lot of discipline when it'salready built into who you think
(02:24):
you are.
Right, that's kind of what youridentity is.
It's who you think you are.
It also has to do with culture.
If you identify as a cyclist,you're probably hanging out with
a lot of cyclists and that alsomakes it really easy to you
know, find people to train with,to get all your training
questions answered, like thatcan become your social life.
So it's almost like harder notto train than it is to train,
(02:48):
because that's that's yourpeople.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, I was going to say like if you're, if you're in
it, if you're in the thick ofit, you're in the culture, like
those habits are built.
So the, the, the actions, yeah,it's almost like subconscious,
it's automatic at that point youdon't have to try super hard to
be an athlete, you just kind ofare doing it right.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You just are.
Yeah, it's just who you are.
It's not like, how am I goingto fit my work?
It's not like, am I going towork out today?
It's like when am I?
How am I?
Where am I going to fit it in?
You know that you are so inthat way, having that identity
is great and it's great forbuilding community.
Like every time I've moved to anew place, I found people very
quickly through my endurancesports communities, yeah, even
(03:31):
swimming, I think.
Um, even though it probablytook me like six months to form
the relationships in the poolthat you would form in like a 10
mile run with the same person,cause you just have limited
seconds at the edge of the wall.
You know like you form thoserelationships.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It's just it's so true, like.
So, living on the front range.
Sorry to chime in, but livingon the front range.
Boulder, colorado Springs,moved out to DC and I was like
man, my endurance life is over,like I'm just going to become
this fat internet coach.
That's what I always like toldmyself.
I mean, it's a negative way ofputting it.
I got out here and some of mybest friends, now to this day,
(04:09):
are out here.
People who ride, hike, do allthe things, but like the network
of people that are out here,that ride is incredible.
Even more so and even morewelcoming.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I feel the same way.
Actually, even though I movedto Boulder largely because it's
a hot spot for triathletes, Ifound it much easier to make
friends in a new city when Imoved back to my hometown in
Rhode Island than in Boulder,because in Boulder people are
like well, I'd ride with you,but my coach told me to do hill
repeats.
(04:39):
I mean, buddies were way fasterthan me, they'd wait for me at
stop signs because there weren'tthat many women cyclists.
It's like you found somebodythat was weird like you.
You stuck together Totally.
(05:01):
It's a thing, it's a you are.
It shapes your good habitsright.
By the same token, I think ifyou over-identify with your
athlete identity, it can havesome harmful consequences.
I think if anybody who has beeninjured or has had to be in a
caregiving role which I guesswe'll get into as a parent, any
life event that interferes withyour ability to train and race,
(05:23):
can cause you to really questionwho am I and what is my worth,
and if that is something you arefacing, you might be
over-identifying as an athleteright when you start, you know
it's one thing to bedisappointed by the result of a
race or like getting dropped ona group ride.
It's another thing to questionyour self-worth when you don't
see the athletic results thatyou were looking for, and so I
(05:46):
think we have to be careful toseparate our worth from that
identity.
Because you know, something Itell friends and family and that
I sometimes have to remindmyself is like, hey, I don't
love you because you're perfect,I don't love you because of how
you you know, for my kids, forexample, I don't love them
because they scored well on atest or did well in a swim meet.
(06:06):
Like I don't care about that.
Honestly, I don't even lovethem because of their
personalities.
I loved them before I even knewtheir personality, when they
were a newborn who did nothing.
You know, like I'm sorry, I'msure everybody listening who has
a newborn loves their newborns.
I love mine too, but you don'tlove it because of the way it
cries, poops and sleeps.
You just love it.
(06:27):
And so if you could think aboutloving yourself in that way,
like totally unconditionally,like you have worth just because
you're here, that can solve alot of the over-identification
problems.
But we can talk about that later, but that's I think that's in a
nutshell to me what athleticidentity means.
And just a little backstory.
You mentioned that I have abackground as an occupational
(06:48):
therapist.
I think a lot of people don'treally know what OT is Like.
Maybe they know like, oh, mykid had it for sensory issues or
ADHD, or my mom had it when shewas recovering from a hip
replacement.
Ot's roots are in mental healthand we talk a lot.
Yeah, it's actually true.
Um, we started out in psychhospitals in the around the turn
of the century, which is ironicbecause, um, mental health
(07:11):
funding is like the first thingto go when governments and
healthcare systems want to cutthings.
So I think there aren't verymany OT jobs in mental health
anymore.
But, like, we talked a lot ingraduate school about like sort
of the theoretical underpinningsof like why do occupations
matter?
Occupations are more than justyour job.
They're like everything you do,like from eating to training to
(07:33):
you know, farming, likewhatever it is you do in your
culture.
Those things are meaningful toyou and our job as OTs is to
help you get back to thosethings right.
But the first thing we need tounderstand as professionals is
why does that stuff matter?
How does that inform how yousee yourself and why?
You know I might not think thatthe app, the occupation of like
(07:54):
I don't know, basket weaving, Imight not see the value in that
, but that's because I don'tunderstand your culture and that
has deep roots for you and yourfamily or your culture or your
religion or whatever you know.
So, so that's, um, that'ssomething we talked a lot about,
um, in my OT background.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, interesting.
So just kind of recap so far,athlete identity, viewing it as
neutral, viewing it as it justis.
However, when it gets to have,like this, extreme thought,
behaviors like shame, which,which is a thing right, you can
shame yourself into doingsomething or you can motivate
yourself into doing somethingright?
That, that shaming and thatextreme behavior, that's what we
(08:30):
want to talk about as kind ofavoiding right.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Okay, which I'd say to.
In the athletic culture there'sa lot of shame.
There's both self-shame andalso shame upon others.
That's maybe even starts asfunny and then it gets a little
out of control.
But again, go in the positiveway.
Motivate yourself to get aworkout, motivate yourself to
have that recovery shake in yourrecovery window, as opposed to
(08:55):
shaming yourself into it, andthat's going to be the more
positive right.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I totally agree and I think there's a time and a
place for shame, but I think itshould be very limited, like, I
guess, what I'm trying to like.
I can identify with the shame.
I definitely did a lot ofself-shaming and in my
experience it's not sustainablebecause if you're coming from a
place of shame, you will notlisten to your body, you will
listen harder to that place inyourself that is telling you
(09:18):
you're not good enough.
Unless you do X, y and Z and Ipromise you it might not happen
right away, but it will lead toovertraining, it will lead to
injury, it will lead to burnoutand, if nothing else, you're not
having fun with it.
If you're seeing it as somesort of benchmark to like
satisfy your ego, that cannotwork forever.
It might work initially, itcannot work forever.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Exactly, exactly, and that's part of the motivation
and that's part of the habitsthat I want to kind of talk
about in this podcast is like,why are you doing what you're
doing?
Is it born out of shame or isit born out of motivation for a
positive goal?
It comes down to self-talk, andwe'll talk more about that here
shortly.
But what is your self-talk?
(10:00):
Become aware of it, and is itbenefiting you?
Is it, is it uplifting to you,because that that will help you
in that performance withlongevity over time, or not?
And so in that way I think wecan all identify that.
You know, when we were a kid,as an athlete, if you were an
(10:20):
athlete as a kid, you viewedyourself as one way.
As you get up, you know, maybethrough college, into your
twenties, your thirties, yourforties, this identity shifts
over time.
So for you, pam, I mean maybestart maybe with yourself of how
that changed just when you wentfrom like twenties to thirties.
And then how did it change whenyou became a mother?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, Um, I identified for a very long time
as being terrible at sports andgradually became an endurance
athlete.
And the reason I was Iidentified that way is because I
was terrible at sports.
I was picked last foreverything.
I was terrified of the ball.
I also I've been nearsighted,like extremely nearsighted,
since I was six, but I did notwear glasses until I was 10.
(11:03):
Not that I didn't have glasses.
I had the glasses.
I was very vain.
I would not wear them.
So when you cannot see the ball,you're not going to catch the
ball, and when you don't catchthe ball, it's not fun and you
don't want to do it.
It's this feedback loop.
So, and I'm sure I'm not likegenetically blessed, it's not
(11:23):
like my parents are pro athletesand it's like this weird
anomaly that you know.
But it was funny because Ireally remember my first Ironman
.
I was in my late twenties andmy sister made some reference to
like all these crazy athletesand I was like, or maybe she
(11:44):
mentioned triathletes but I waslike, oh yeah, but I'm not one
of them.
And she was like what do youthink you are if you're not a
triathlete?
You're about to swim two and ahalf miles and bike 112 miles
and run a marathon all in oneday what are you?
And I was like I'm somebody whodoes triathlons.
It took me a long time torealize, oh wait, I'm an athlete
.
It was not like something thathappened all at once.
(12:06):
It was sort of a gradual thing,probably in my late 20s, early
30s, when I was like, oh yeah,all these years that I've been
like wearing the spandex andprioritizing the workouts and
like all my friends are people Iwould not recognize in the
grocery store if we ran intoeach other in regular clothes,
without helmets or goggles orsome form of spandex, like, oh
(12:26):
yeah, I guess I'm an athlete.
Um, but then you know, you have.
I had my first kid in my early30s and my experience as a mom
was just like everything changedall of a sudden.
I was like you know, I wasprivileged, lucky to have a
maternity leave, but then I'mlike not going to work, Like I
(12:47):
identified very strongly withwork I didn't realize how
strongly until it wasn't therefor me and I was like whoa, whoa
, All I do is like stay home andtake care of a baby.
Who am I?
And you know, my body was stillrecovering from pregnancy and
childbirth and I remember sayingto my husband like my life is
(13:08):
flipped upside down.
I don't know who I am Like, doyou and he?
I don't know if this is theexperience.
I don't think he's aspokesperson for all men, but he
was like no, I'm not havingthat experience.
You know, he was still going towork, His body hadn't been
turned inside out, didn't changefor him all that much yeah.
Yeah, no, it really didn't Ifanything for him.
(13:28):
It was like more pressure to bethe provider, financially, for
our family, so that I think hehad to like double down harder
on that identity, which I'm surethat's no picnic, I know that
it's not, but one of the thingsthat I did after my first kid
was born she was born inFebruary I put a sprint
triathlon on the calendar forJune and I was like, come hell
(13:49):
or high water, I'm doing thatthing and it was not pretty.
And you know what's funny, Irealized in hindsight the swim
went really poorly.
Even though I'm a terribleswimmer, I've never been
intimidated by open water and Ifelt like I was hyperventilating
on that swim and it took me abecause I had lost so much
weight so quickly after givingbirth, but I certainly hadn't
(14:12):
lost like all the weight.
Looking back, I'm like mywetsuit was actually suffocating
me.
That's why I had such a badswim, but I didn't know it.
So I guess my body image waslike surprisingly good, but um
so that happens and everything.
Yeah, but, like being an athlete, it was important to me to do
(14:33):
that little sprint triathlon afew months after giving birth
because I wanted to continue tobe who I was.
I was like, even if I'm notgoing to work and even if I
don't still see my friends asoften as I used to, a lot of
things are different for me.
That has to be the same, likeit has to be, and that was
really good for my mental healthand I'm glad that I committed
(14:54):
to that and things changed forme.
Before that I was really intotriathlons.
I love going for long bikerides.
Um the summer I got pregnant.
It was like we were going to meand my husband were talking
about either doing the triplebypass, which probably many of
your listeners know, but if theydon't, it's like an iconic um
Colorado bike ride that takesyou something like 117 miles
over three passes.
(15:15):
It's like over 10,000 feet ofclimbing.
It's a big deal and I was likeI'm either going to get pregnant
or do that ride.
And then I got pregnant.
I was like I'm not doing thatride and what's fun is my kid is
about to turn 13 and I justsigned up for the ride.
I'm doing it.
Um, yeah, I'm so excited.
It'll be my first time doing itthis summer.
Um, maybe my last, I don't know.
But all of this to say, thingschanged after she was born.
(15:37):
I didn't have all the time thatI had, so I really focused hard
on running, cause that's themost time efficient of the three
sports that I was into.
Um, and I just had to changewhat being an athlete looked
like for me.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, and I think too I mean our time crunched
athletes will resonate with thisis you have kids and if you had
more time where you're stilltime crunched before kids now
you're extremely time crunchedwith kids.
You have to be so much moredialed.
You have to be so much moreflexible with your time.
You have to be really creativesuper creative.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And it's some really creative things in those early
years.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So let's hear about one.
But first I will say here'swhere that shame comes in, right
, Because you say well, I wasdoing 10 hours a week and now
I'm only doing six.
You suck, or something likethat.
It's like I was doing 10, nowI'm doing six.
But you know what, that's thereality, and you don't even have
to put a positive spin to it.
(16:34):
You say that's the reality, butI can still do six.
So let's do six, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
But it's kind of looking at like what is the
minimum, um, minimum effectivedose, just like you might do
with a medication.
Or what's the minimum?
What do I need?
What's the bare minimum I needfor to stay somewhat fit Maybe
I'm not as fast as I was, but Iwant to stay somewhat fit.
I want the mental healthbenefits I want to maintain my
identity.
What would that look like forme?
What's the minimum?
(17:00):
Define what that is.
That's what I would say.
Define what that is and then gofrom there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, agreed, and I actually so, as you're a
listener on the podcast, so youmay have even heard this.
But we had an audience memberwrite in and said basically what
is that minimum dose time?
So time crunched, what is goingto give me benefit?
And my answer was super simpleat first.
Then I gave some examples.
But like, just start.
Like and that's the beautyabout being an athlete Like we
have some good habits in place.
I would say take action andjust start going 20 or 30
minutes.
You can change it from cyclingto running if you want to make
(17:37):
it a little bit more bang forthe buck, but four times a week
of 30 minutes is better thannothing.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Absolutely Something is.
That's something I reallyembraced since having kids.
I used to think why would Iexercise for just 20 minutes?
That's so dumb to change myclothes and maybe have to take a
shower who has time for that?
And now I'm like I don't havetime, like not to do that, like
I need sometimes, if that's allI have, that'll get the job done
.
I agree with you Like trial anderror See start small and see
(18:05):
if that helps.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
If it doesn't help, try more or keep it short, but
intense.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, and I also think too with with the.
I don't have kids, so I can'tspeak specifically to this, but
I coach a fair number of peoplewith kids and we always look for
creative solutions and creativepockets to get some volume
Right.
And usually that'scommunicating with the spouse or
the other family members of youknow, saturday's my day to
train, sunday, sunday's your dayto train.
So something as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Something that we set up like from the very beginning
which has kind of held out allthese years.
Yeah, the oldest one is almost13.
Right off the bat we decidedTuesday, thursday were my early
morning to do what I wanted andmy husband's job was to do
whatever with the kids, like getthem out the door, give them
breakfast, whatever the dayneeded.
And Monday, wednesday were hisdays and that's been like, and
(18:54):
Friday was kind of a free forall and we've kind of maintained
that basic structure all theseyears, like we'll flip it around
based on oh, my group ride isTuesdays.
I really want to do that.
Can I have whatever?
We, you know, flip it as needed.
But having a basic structure inplace so you don't have to
renegotiate it every day orevery week is awesome.
Highly recommend that.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, it's something to fall back on from that
framework standpoint so thatyour like lizard brain can be
like okay, tuesdays, thenThursdays, those are my days,
all good, we'll help get youthrough the like crappy times of
I haven't worked out for threedays oh, I feel like a slug and
all these other like weirdself-talk things that come up.
You can always see the light atthe end of the tunnel, and if
(19:35):
you can't see the light at theend of the tunnel, it's like
start digging and find the light, because that will that will
help you get there, and I thinktoo, in that way, I do have some
athletes where they will becomeempty nesters soon, and so you
start to plan on how much timeyou're going to have when the
kids have flown the coop, right,whether that is finally taking
the big trip or having a yearwhere you actually um, you know,
(19:56):
do big races January all theway through October or something
like that.
Get yourself excited when, whenyou come back and you will have
time again.
I guess is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, I think that's huge, that mindset of like
realizing this is a season it'sreally hard to see when you're
in it.
I think if you had told me likeyou'll do the triple bypass
someday but your kid will be 13.
I would have been like what, 13years from now seems like
forever, but it's not.
(20:26):
It's not Like I had wanted tojoin this women's cycling team
for a long time and I felt likelike I couldn't do any group
rides for the first few years ofmy kids' lives because I mean I
could have done whatever Iwanted.
I did not prioritize thatbecause I was like I want to
spend the precious time I haveriding my bike, not driving to
the bike ride and waiting around.
And then, you know, everyperson on the ride adds another
(20:48):
five minutes with the armwarmers and the peeing and the
stopping and the whatever.
I was just like I don't havetime for that.
But then eventually I did andthat brings me a lot of joy that
I now do and it's so great andit's just like, yeah, that just
wasn't an option for me fiveyears ago, but it is now.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, exactly Exactly , and I think you know, again,
all these, all these things thatwe're talking about, of how it
shifts and changes with theseasons.
For many you know manylisteners, um, listening here on
the podcast, it's like they'vekind of chosen to be an athlete
for life.
I mean, some people listening,it's just you know they're just
getting into it and it's, youknow, it's exciting, it's
confusing, it's all the things,um.
(21:36):
But for a lot of people, and alot of people that I know have
tuned in and asked questions,they've been doing this for
several years and as thingschange, you have to adapt and
change with it.
And I know that everybodylistening here is an aging
athlete because we're allgetting older with each passing
moment.
Now, some of these agingathletes are younger, some of
them are older.
So, pam, how do you seeidentity change as athletes hit
their forties, their fifties?
The men lose testosterone, thewomen go through menopause.
(21:58):
Power or pace is going thedirection we don't want it to.
How does the identity change?
Or to couple with an athlete.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
What I see in happier athletes is that the happier
athletes maintain their identitybut they change their behaviors
, whereas the less happyathletes they still identify
just as strongly and they expectto be doing the same amount of
training, to require the sametype and amount of recovery, to
(22:32):
be continuing to place in all oftheir races, and they're
frustrated because they're likebanging their head against a
wall, because that's impossible.
Aging happens.
You can't avoid it, and so themore successful, happy,
sustainable athletes that I seetend to accept my body is
changing and so my expectationsare changing.
(22:52):
I might, instead of having likea seven-day training cycle, I
got a 10-day training cycle, soI can fit in two really hard
workouts in 10 days instead ofseven days.
Or I accept that I need moresleep, or I accept that I need
more downtime.
Or many runners that I know havetransitioned to trail running
because it's like comparingapples to oranges when you're
(23:13):
looking at road times versustrail times, even one trail to
another, there's no comparison,right?
So they're focusing ondifferent sports or different
aspects of the same sport andjust like they're in it more for
joy than competition, I thinkespecially I think with the loss
of testosterone, people's egossort of naturally recede.
(23:36):
I think it's a function ofmaturity and probably somewhat
hormones.
But I do think as we age westart to hopefully be more
comfortable with who we are andwhat matters and I like I can
speak for myself.
Like I was so obsessed with myperformance in the past because
(23:56):
I didn't feel that great aboutmyself and I was using it as
like kind of a low hanging fruitto be like, oh well, if I can
complete these hours of trainingand if I can reach these finish
lines and if I can have a PR,then I feel good about myself.
And I realized now that's arecipe for shame and it's just
not fun to live that way, torealize now I've gone through
(24:18):
some therapy and I have wetalked about this offline a
little bit the idea ofself-compassion and if that's
new for your listeners, I think,the idea of self-compassion it
sounds really sappy.
It sounds like, oh my God, if Igive myself compassion, I'm a
loser.
I'm a lazy loser, I'm a stupidsnowflake and I'm probably just
(24:39):
going to lie on the couch allday and eat Pringles if I give
myself a pass.
But that's not whatself-compassion is.
Self-compassion is simplyrealizing that you're worthy, no
matter what.
It's actually very simple, kindof hard to do, but the more you
practice, the easier it gets.
And when you extend yourselfcompassion, you'll find that,
(25:00):
like you, it doesn't mean thatyou're like, oh, this race got
hard, I think I'm going to dropout.
It's, this race got hard and Ibelieve that I can finish it.
Oh, and I believe that if I'mexperiencing like heat stroke
symptoms, I'm going to do thesmart thing and listen to my
body instead of my ego.
So I think, overall, being aself-compassionate athlete makes
(25:22):
you a more sustainable athleteand a happier athlete, because
at the end of the day, most ofus are doing this for fun.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yes, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And everybody needs to hearthis men, women, juniors, older
athletes everybody needs to hearthat because, again, if you're
on that struggle bus and you'relike super hurting, but you're,
you know you haven't lost a limband heat stroke is not there,
yeah, it's still finished,because there's a lot of lessons
(25:49):
to be learned just by crossingthe finish line.
Meanwhile, if you're in thebreak and in a break of three,
right, and you're just on thatstruggle bus, but hey, you know
what, if you sit on and makesome good adjustments, get that
heart rate down, taking a gel,maybe you're still on the podium
, right.
So it's tuning into what'sgoing on, accepting the
(26:10):
realities, like, oh, I wasfeeling really good, now I'm not
.
What do I need to do?
We did a podcast about intuitiveeating.
This podcast may be intuitiveliving or intuitive training.
It's just that simple awarenessof tuning into what is reality
and then framing it up so thatyou still have that joy over
time.
That you still have that joyover time.
(26:31):
And athletes have a terribletime with this because of our
self-talk, of the, the falsethings that we say should, when
it is just like kind of uh, madeup in our heads, right.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Absolutely Um are you ?
Have you ever interviewed AaronAyala on your podcast?
Are you familiar with her?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I'm not no.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
She's lovely, she's a sports psychologist and an
elite cyclist.
She came on my podcast a whileago and talked about
self-compassion.
She told me actually we talkedabout this, for I read an
article for bicycling about likethings you can do to make a
hard ride easier and onestrategy that she had that I
love.
It's like a form of acceptance.
She said, instead of going I'mtired, just simply reframe and
(27:12):
go.
I'm having the thought that I'mtired.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You haven't, like told yourself something
ridiculous like I'm energized.
That would be a lie.
We wouldn't believe that youknow.
So it's not like some manifestnew age affirmation.
It's separating yourself fromthe experience a little bit so
that you have a little distance.
The thought isn't necessarilythe reality, it's just you
observing that you're having thethought.
(27:36):
It makes a lot easier todisconnect from that thought and
let a new thought come.
Because that's what thoughts do?
They kind of come, they go.
You don't have to attach toevery single thought.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, a hundred percent, and that's.
I'm no sports psychologist,okay, so let's lay that out
there right now.
But I would say that's theexact strategy I use in my
coaching practice.
Uh, when we're framing up agoal, a race strategy, or we're
you know doing a retro on how arace weekend went, or something
like that, and I would say Iwould say, I mean, I didn't come
(28:06):
up with that strategy myself,it came a lot from a Byron Katie
.
So if anyone wants a framework,I love her.
Yeah, check out her.
That process is called the workand she wrote a book called
loving what is has nothing to dowith athletics.
However, I have found a Supremelinkage to self-talk and the
(28:27):
athlete in a performance settingwith using that strategy of
asking four questions and turnit around.
It's because it again, you gettired.
You start telling yourselfyou're the worst.
You're not, you were nevergoing to finish.
What are you doing up All the?
If you just slow down and likelook at those thoughts just kind
of like floating up there andbe like whoa, where, where did
Alan come from?
(28:47):
Right, and you can let it go,come back in the moment and and
figure out a way to be like Isaid, just find it's like a
little bit of freshening upthere so you can get back in the
game that's what I do.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Before you can even change the thought, you have to
observe that it's actually justa thought.
That's right, not the truth.
Um.
Will you link to byron katie'swork in the in the um in the
show notes, because it's sopowerful and anyone can do it in
like five minutes.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
For sure.
Yeah, anyone can do it in fiveminutes, and I think when you
get good at it, you just thensubconsciously do it anytime
that you uh see a thought comethrough your head.
And another tool that I use forthe.
I don't know if some people maybe polarized by this, but Sam
Harris is another one.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Um, I use his app on um waking up, and he has Sam
Harris, the Stanford neurologistwho has the podcast called um
making sense.
I love him.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, yeah, he's good , so I mean, he's kind of he's
dry, so uh.
So I and I, I absolutely lovehim.
But if people are looking forsome resources out there and
again, these two podcasts I'mdoing with Pam, they're a little
different than my actionablepercentages of FTP and all this
kind of stuff, but what I'mdoing is I'm equipping your
(30:02):
brain to how to proceed for agreat new year of being an
athlete and and we we spend somuch time talking about how to
train the body, and I do that onthe podcast.
When I'm working one-on-onewith an athlete, I'm doing like
sneaky things as well as like inyour face, things of how we
(30:23):
train the brain as well as thebody.
Yeah, and I would argue.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
You know, you mentioned, like oh, byron Katie,
it's not really about sports,but it's so helpful.
I mean I would almost arguethat like I'm older I get, the
more experiences I've had,everything pertains to
everything.
Like there is no separation.
Like everything I've learned onthe bike pertains to life,
everything I've learned at workpertains to the bike.
It's all the same thing.
Like case in point.
Like I have this background as ajournalist, right, but
(30:50):
journalism is changing so much.
I'm sure everyone listening isI don't know if you're in like
you guys are in the athleticcorner of the internet, probably
, but like in the journalismcorner of the internet, all I
see is um outlets folding leftand right, um, the rates that
I'm earning are like the same asI was earning six years ago.
It's not sustainable.
And if I identify so hard as ajournalist, I'm just gonna be
(31:11):
like I suck, there's nothingleft for me, there's nothing
left to do, ah.
But instead I'm like, yeah,that's definitely part of my
identity and I love going to mylike journalism, happy hours and
stuff like that.
And I have learned so manyskills from journalism.
Like I'm a really goodinterviewer, I'm a really good
listener, I know how to look ata situation from different
angles.
(31:31):
I read media critically.
There's just like and just thesame.
If you identify so hard as anathlete that like when you can't
sustain training 20 hours aweek anymore and now you're like
a failure, it's like, no,actually that experience has
poised you to do so many otherthings, or to train differently,
or to explore pickleball.
(31:52):
You now you have all this timeand you know you have the
discipline to do whatever it isyou want to spend your time
doing.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think for the listenerswho may be raising an eyebrow of
, uh, I won master's nationalchampionships and now Pam's
telling me to pick up, pick aball.
What?
Maybe pick a ball is great.
Nothing against that, notnecessarily what we're saying.
We're saying become adaptable,because if you're an elite
(32:18):
athlete, you're a master'sathlete, weekend warrior, the
one who's more adaptable isgoing to win.
So if you're interested inwinning, become adaptable.
In in up here in your brain.
That's where it starts.
And so, in that way, what canathletes do here?
What can you do when thatidentity changes and you and you
identify that what I was doingis no longer working as
(32:39):
effectively as it used to get?
You got to change with it.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And it's kind of as simple as like going with the
flow or not, like you can fightthe flow, but it's going to be
really hard and you're probablynot going to win.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
You can do it whatever way you want.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Totally, totally, like at some point with my
athletes it was talking with Pam, I think I was saying off
camera, like some of my 60 yearold, 60 plus athletes, you know
that that power's going down FTPand a row in sprint power and
so part of the strategy issaying, yep, it's going down,
but let's mitigate that downfall, that downfall.
(33:21):
So you just accept the fact thatit is going down, but what we
can do is not let it fall asmuch.
Typically, I find that FTPactually can last a lot longer
than if we need to, and Icovered this in a couple of my
podcasts with Joe Friel, which Iforget the numbers itself.
Just Google or, sorry, go toApple Podcasts, go to Time
Crunch Cyclist type in Joe Friel.
You'll find him there in theAging Athlete and in there too
(33:42):
he talked about changing thestructure of your training week.
Move toward a nine and one,just like Pam was saying, a
10-day cycle versus a six andone or a seven-day cycle,
because as we age maybe we get alittle bit more time rich and
the frequency is more importantthan that like huge volume or
huge intensity.
(34:02):
So having more frequency as youage is really successful for
some of these athletes goingthrough the decreased
testosterone, menopause and allthe things that we mentioned.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, and I think too , like and this is advice, I
think not just as I mean, likeyou mentioned, we are aging.
Every minute, every secondwe're aging.
But whether you consideryourself an aging athlete or
you're in your 20s, the new yearis a great time to just
reevaluate what makes a workoutor a season or a race successful
.
For me, right, like whenever Ido a race, I go into it with
(34:35):
some performance goals, but alsoprocess goals, so that, even if
the performance doesn't go howI want, I've got the process
goals built in which I have muchmore control over.
So I would say, like, if youare aging and you're not sure
where you fit with your athleticidentity, maybe just ask
yourself what does success looklike?
And if success is only definedas watts or times or places,
(35:01):
maybe you either want to give upthe sport Cause it's just not
fun for you anymore, or see ifyou can change the parameters of
what success looks like for you.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, no, I think that's right and I think too,
along with that is like I wantour listeners, I want my
athletes to have outcome goalsand I want them to achieve it
via wise process goals.
So process is how we get there,outcome is what we achieve
right Podium or power production, whatever.
And I want those to berealistic and also aggressive.
(35:30):
Okay, so, like when you'redoing that, don't just like
throw some huge number out ofthe air, like ground it in
something.
Use science, use past historyin order to make good goals.
And if you do that, I think alot of this takes care of itself
.
But that's the framework here.
Now, if, if you're just nothitting those goals and the
(35:51):
process isn't going well, youneed to reframe it.
If you're one of these athleteswhere it's like, if you think
I'm not going to ride today, oh,you're such a failure, you
haven't trained enough, who areyou?
And you're not getting to thebig races anymore, what are you
going to do?
Just give up.
If that's some of yourself-talk, watch it, catch it,
(36:11):
maybe like get with Pam, likehire a coach and delve into some
of this self-talk, becauseself-talk, my opinion, it's way
more powerful as an athlete andas humans than we think it is.
And if there is anything thatyou take away from this podcast
for the rest of this year, workon your self-talk.
Maybe a little bit more thanyou're stressing out about FTP
(36:36):
power, and I bet you'll unlocksome wild gifts between your
ears.
You still got to do yourtraining, Okay, you still got to
do your training.
You still have to get after it.
You still have to have the harddays and the long days.
However, just check thatself-talk a hundred percent.
Yeah, so I kind of went on asoapbox there, pam, but as we're
(36:58):
, as we're starting to like wrapthis up a little bit, I think,
for for me is you want to live alife that has a mixture of both
athlete life and non-athletelife going on, so that you uh
don't become like the weirdendurance athlete that goes to
the party and he like sits inthe corner and he's like sipping
his water and and and just kindof like being, uh, the weird
(37:21):
endurance people that we areright Like.
You want to have a good mixturegoing on, and that's like my
point number one.
My point number two isself-talk.
If you start to observe andbecome aware of that and there's
a lot of negativity in therestart changing around.
Use some of the techniques thatPam was talking Google Byron,
katie and the work.
Check that out.
Those are really good resources.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah, I agree, and I think that if that's not enough
like I think a lot of people arewalking around with like trauma
from you know shit, theirparents said shit, their coaches
said maybe you need to get witha good sports psychologist and
work that stuff out in someone'soffice, Cause it can be hard to
go there by yourself.
If you know, try it for sure,but if it's not working, don't
(38:04):
give up and go.
Oh, this wasn't for me.
You might need a little supportand there is no shame in that.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, totally, and I think to the other podcasts that
I did with Pam.
We talked about unlearning someof the stuff that we've learned
and carried through with us inlife and when we're looking to
change something big like that,you have to unlearn.
That's the examine life that wetalked about and in that
(38:29):
podcast that had to do withintuitive eating.
But if you missed that podcast,go back and check that out,
because I think these twopodcasts link pretty well
together.
Podcasts go back and check thatout, because I think these two
podcasts link pretty welltogether.
And I do want to say to ourlisteners, if any of this today,
as well as that previouspodcast, resonated with them,
they need more Pam Moore intheir life.
(38:50):
So, pam, where can they findyou and how does that work?
Are you taking on clients?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, Thank you for the plug, Adam.
Absolutely, I help as anintuitive eating coach.
I help women heal theirrelationships with food and
exercise.
So particularly this episode isreally pertaining to that
exercise piece.
If you're noticing that, likeyou only feel good about
yourself if you've trained Xamount of hours, if you've met X
metrics, um, and it's justtaking over your life to where,
(39:15):
like you said, you're eitheractually in the corner or like
metaphorically in the corner,like you're in the conversation,
but your mind is calculatingwhat time you need to leave this
party so you can wake up earlyenough to get in the miles or
whatever.
Uh, let's talk.
My best way to find me is mywebsite Pam dash more M O O R
Ecom.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Perfect, perfect.
Well, pam, this has been apleasure, uh, always talking
with you, and this time we'vegot a couple of microphones to
record what we're talking about.
And I do think, like I said,these two episodes may be a
little different than, uh, theflavors I've put out there
before, but, I think, probablyeven more important.
So, pam, thank you for sharingyour knowledge and taking the
(39:58):
time, um out of your day in dayin Boulder to talk and share
your knowledge with us.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
My pleasure.
Time Crunch Cyclist is actuallylike one of the podcasts that I
frequently listen to, so it'sjust super exciting to be part
of it, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Awesome.
Well, thank you for listeningand let's pod again soon.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Okay, Thanks, Pam.
Thanks for joining us on theTime Crunch Cyclist podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even moreactionable training advice, head
over to trainrightcom backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
Each week you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
(40:35):
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
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