December 17, 2025 • 43 mins
OVERVIEW
VO2 max or maximum aerobic capacity is your performance ceiling, but it is trainable and you can not only increase your VO2 max, but also the power you can produce at VO2 max, how long you can sustain that power, and the amount of work you can accomplish between lactate threshold and VO2 max. In Episode #285 of "The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast", coaches Adam Pulford and Basecamp's Tim Cusick discuss how VO2 max training works, the workout specifics necessary to increase VO2 max, and how to turn training into speed for real-world performance.
Topics Covered In This Episode:
- How VO2 max responds to training
- The relationship between lactate threshold, FTP, and VO2 max
- What to expect after 1-2 weeks of VO2 max training
- What to expect after 2-4 weeks and 4-8 weeks of VO2 max training
- How to know when you've done enough VO2 max training
- VO2 max workout structure: interval duration, total time-in-zone, frequency
Resources
- Tim at Basecamp: https://www.joinbasecamp.com/tim-cusick
- Tim on IG https://www.instagram.com/tim.cusick_coach/
- Stress vs Strain: Difference Between Stress and Strain - GeeksforGeeks https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/physics/difference-between-stress-and-strain/
Guest Bio:
Tim Cusick is a world-class cycling coach, a leader in data analytics for endurance sports, an educator, and an innovative business leader. Tim works with Olympians, world champions, and more, including Amber Neben and Rebecca Rusch. As a data analytics leader, Tim is an acknowledged expert in the field for endurance athletes. He is the TrainingPeaks WKO product leader,
codeveloper of WKO5, and Instructor: Advanced Training with Data. As an educator, Tim has presented at USA Cycling summits, TrainingPeaks Endurance Summits, TrainingPeaks University, and more. Tim is also the founder of BaseCamp, which is driven by Tim’s philosophy of bringing together the science of data and the art of coaching. His values-based approach focusing on shared vision and team building allows for the construction of dynamic and purposeful organization development.
HOST
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
From the team at CTS, this is the Time Crunch
Cyclist Podcast, our showdedicated to answering your
training questions and providingactionable advice to help you
improve your performance, evenif you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, Coach AdamPolford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches who makeup the team at CTS.
(00:27):
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
other coaches, and experts inthe field to provide you with
the practical ways to get themost out of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now, on to our show.
(00:52):
Today is part three in a serieson the time course of adaptation
to endurance training.
And back with me is Coach TimCusick.
Tim, welcome back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Uh I'll say it again.
Thanks for having me again.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Absolutely.
It is my pleasure.
I always learn uh so much whenI'm talking to you, Tim, whether
it is uh here on a podcast orsome random location in Boulder,
Colorado, or uh streamingeverything that you've done on
YouTube.
So uh thank you for taking a tonof time out of your day-to-day
to uh make all these all theseepisodes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
So last week we talked uh about how quickly
someone could start respondingto FTP training, emphasizing the
aerobic, the glycolytic energysystem, which is the most
trainable energy system, by theway, in your body.
And we can spend a lot of timetraining there.
However, we need to change thetraining stimulus to keep
(01:51):
improving overall and keepmoving the ship forward.
And we use higher intensities todo that, but we need concurrent
aerobic training to uh alsosupplement that.
So today's topic is VO2 maxtraining, and we're gonna talk
about the adaptations associatedwith that.
But Tim, one complicated thingthat I hope you can make simple
(02:12):
is if I were to ask you how islactate threshold and VO2 max
both similar and different atthe same time, how how would you
uh tell our audience or howwould you tell a young coach
what is kind of the differencein the similarities between
these two conceptually?
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
Okay, wow, that's a complex question.
So let's simplify, let's startwith we're talking about VO2max.
VO2max has been utilized as thename of a training zone in this,
you know, in multiple differentzone systems for a long time.
And that confuses people to somedegree.
So let's pull back from that.
VO2max is a physiological state.
(02:56):
So the word max is veryimportant there because that's
the maximal rate of which youcan intake, uptake, and utilize
oxygen, right?
So it's a as a couple of uhpoints to that.
There's a couple of things goingon, but how much oxygen and how
efficiently, you know, how muchcan I get into the system and
how much can I utilize?
(03:16):
But the output is importantthere.
There's actually P VO2 max, it'spower.
So when we think about theconcept for endurance athletes,
for cyclists in specific, whatVO2max is a physiological state.
What we're really focused on isputting how much power we can
put out when we are in thatstate.
(03:37):
So that concept of VO2 max needsto be established.
So now we talk about FTP, andthat's why I have to translate
it to a concept of power,because FTP is a functional
threshold power.
You use the term lactatethreshold too, which is more
physiologically descriptive.
They are both similar andrelated, so but a world apart.
(04:02):
That's why it's complicated.
When we begin to, when we hitLT2, when we hit uh lactate
threshold too, we are producingmore byproduct for the extra for
this the intensity we're goingthan our body can comfortably
deal with.
So, what's the real impact ofthat?
The onset of rapid fatigue,meaning powers above FTP, we can
(04:22):
only hold for a very short time.
Powers below, we can hold for amuch longer, more significant
time.
And that's because at FTP andabove, or at LT2 and above, not
only are we dealing with allthis byproduct, we are shifting
most of the load, most of theenergy requirements to being
(04:44):
anaerobic.
Um we're producing uh most ofthe energy, almost all of the
energy, depends on how intenseyou go, but all of the energy uh
through the utilization ofcarbs, we're anaerobic in
nature.
A lot of that energy is beingproduced in the absence of
oxygen.
And that, you know, so we have alimited amount of time that we
can sustain that.
(05:05):
Um that transition actuallystarts happening below FTP, just
not to confuse everybody, morearound 80 to 85 percent of FTP,
but it's it's purely dominant atFTP and above.
So the physiologicalrelationship looks like this.
In the last episode, I definedFTP as a simple metabolic
(05:27):
indicator.
It's a metabolic fitness.
It gives us an understanding ofthat energy system and how we
deal with byproducts.
Our VO2 max is probably the verygreatest indicator of our
cardiovascular fitness.
Um, those two relate because, inthe end of the day, your VO2
(05:47):
max, your cardiovascularcapability, maybe not fitness as
the right word, but yourcardiovascular fitness is always
gonna limit your metabolicfitness.
VO2 max is always the cap toyour LT2.
That's known as fractionalutilization.
There's only so much of thatoxygen coming, there's only so
(06:10):
much output we're gonna be ableto produce in that short amount
of time.
And that's about 85%.
There's range, there'svariation, it's trainable, you
can improve that, but yourfractional utilization, what I'm
describing, is around 85 to 90%,depends on the athlete in
training.
But you'll never succeed that.
Like, so the relationship tothose two, here's a simple way
(06:32):
to explain what I just said.
Imagine you have a house with aceiling and a roof.
You start training aerobic, youstart doing some, all your base
one, base two training, you'redoing a lot of aerobic work,
your threshold is growing,you're getting taller in that
house.
So your fitness is growing, yourmetabolic capability is going,
(06:52):
your FTP is going up, but theresuddenly becomes a point where
you're now bumping up againstthe ceiling.
You cannot grow anymore in thathouse because that
cardiovascular ceiling, thatVO2-max ceiling, is limiting
growth.
And at that point, and here'swhy the relationship is so
important, you have to invest inactually raising the ceiling
(07:14):
before FTP will grow again.
You have to create more room togrow.
So the two are very relative inperforming athletes because it's
the give and take, the exchange,so to speak, as we begin to get
more fit, deeper in ourperiodized plan, closer to
performance phases.
(07:35):
We have to make that investmentin those two elements because
they're two totally uniquethings, but they limit, well,
they relate, work together, butyet one acts as a limiter of the
other.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think when I'm trying tocommunicate this to my athletes
is I say, you know, VO2 max, maxis max, and that that will be uh
the the power or the oxygenthat's coming into the system at
maximum.
FTP is the highest rate that wecan work relative to VO2 max,
(08:10):
and we're gonna try to get thatup into that 85-90% because the
higher I can go steady at max,the better in general for
endurance athletes.
However, that then you have likespecificity and and and some of
these other aspects that um comeinto when we want more anaerobic
or or more aerobic and thingslike this, but that's that
(08:33):
percentage of FTP to VO2 maxthat Tim is talking about there.
And and so for uh to you, Tim,do you see even elite athletes
kind of sticking to that 85 to90 percent?
Can they go a little bit above?
And for a time-crunched athlete,should they be shooting for a
conceptual 85 to 90 percent ofFTP to VO2 relationship?
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Yeah, I mean, there's always outliers.
So you can they can.
Um, and it takes if you were tobe a professional athlete
constantly testing this, there'sa lot of testing and there's
some margin of error and allthat.
You really want to know ifyou're in that ballpark.
Also, whether you could be 85 or90, your muscle fiber type
itself will have an impact onwhere exactly that target might
(09:18):
be.
Come, you know, anothercomplexity there.
I think for the time-crunchedathlete, it's probably more
important to listen to thesecond thing I said.
You have a house, you grow inyour house.
You have to learn to feel whenyou're bumping against the
ceiling.
Like, and your coach does too,because you probably have most
(09:38):
time-crunched athletes will bemore close to 90 at all given
times.
Because your your VO2 max istrainable and it's more impacted
within a time-crunched athlete,um, you know, in that sense.
So your your metabolic fitness,you know, you're training all
the time, you're pretty good.
(09:59):
You're actually overreaching inthat sense, in one way.
Um man, it's complex.
I never thought about it as hardfor the time crunch, because
what's happening, you'reprobably doing more work at
higher intensities as a timecrunched athlete, and that's
absolutely the right answerwithin the right controls.
So you tend to um have uh youknow a different or slightly
(10:22):
different relationship in thatdevelopment that's inverse than
what you would expect.
You probably have um a rereduced power at VO2 max for
that intensity and a higherpower at lactate threshold too
or FTP in your physiologicalrelationship.
(10:43):
Why?
Fatigue is multifaceted, andthis is where it gets really
complex.
There's other things in therethat are the limiters.
There's things that's happeningthat if you're not a higher
volume training, that's limitingyour ability to produce power at
VO2 max.
Fatigue is very multifaceted,it's biochemical in nature.
So you're not testing well.
So, long story short, you'reprobably closer to that 90, and
(11:07):
that's a good thing.
But the time-crunched athleteneeds to be cognitive of
stagnation plateaus, lack ofdevelopmental growth in the FTP
focused training, and know whenit's like, wow, I need to raise
the ceiling.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Okay.
I I do agree with that, and Iwould say for my time-crunched
athletes, I I lean intodeveloping and increasing FTP
more than VO2 Max, is because Iknow that I'm limited on that in
the way of volume.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
100% right answer.
And that's why I hesitated andanswered.
I should have thought thisquestion out more because it's
easy to fall victim to too muchhigh-intensity training load,
which will actually make that uhequation look better, more like
85%, but will have less impacton your performance.
And this is where you have to becareful when we're always
(12:00):
talking about physiologicalresponse.
Science doesn't have all theanswers to performance, right?
So the science of that mightsay, do this.
Your wisdom mastery, right?
You know better.
You've been around a long timeand it's 100% spot on.
And for anybody listening, it's100% spot on.
You want to pay that price ofthe 90-ish percent if you were
(12:22):
measuring it that exact.
You want the threshold driver inthere with occasional bouts of
ceiling raising, will give you abetter overall response.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Yeah.
So for the time crunch athlete,just know if you were to double
down on one versus the other,I'd go FTP every time.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Every time for time crunch athlete.
Absolutely.
Because it's the crossover ofit's the it's the linchpin of
all the different kinds ofprocesses.
Your best the metabolic fitnessside of that equation is
absolutely worth pursuing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Yep.
Yep.
And I and I want to point outthat as FTP grows, so does VO2
Max because they're aerobicallycorrelated.
But now as listeners arelistening here, is maybe getting
a little confused, or how do Iraise my ceiling, Tim?
What would you say for for bothlet you you can answer for high
(13:18):
volume athlete as well astime-crunched athlete, but what
would be one technique to raisethat ceiling?
And then maybe we can like backinto the time crunchiness of it
and then talk about theadaptations once we do start to
hit some zone five.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
All right, this is much simpler to explain.
So good.
I would go universal answer, goback to episode one.
First off, the single biggestway most of us can raise FTP is
ride your bike a lot.
Like do a lot of aerobictraining.
VO2 Max, in a large way, and thegreatest contribution is you're
(13:55):
really raising it.
You're remember what I said inepisode one, we tend to think
about aerobic and anaerobic asside-by-side elements of energy.
I start out aerobic and I startmoving to the right as power
goes up, and eventually I goanaerobic.
Turn that out inside, it'sstacked.
So the better aerobic fitness,the better we lift all boats.
Like, and that's what'shappening.
So investing in your aerobicfitness in early foundational,
(14:18):
early base training,particularly is challenging for
a uh a time-crunched athletebecause it almost feels like I'm
wasting time.
Like, ah, but I got I only havesix, eight hours this week.
I need more intensity.
Be patient, right?
You've you're you are building,you're just pushing it slowly up
from below.
It'll work.
Then what I find in um, then youneed a secondary phase.
(14:43):
But that's secondary phase, thetiming is tricky.
So I'll give the easy answer.
When you're you're bangingagainst the ceiling, when your
head's hitting the ceiling iswhen a but the secondary phase
comes in a more intensivemanner.
And there's where, and becausewe've used the aerobic time
we've had to raise the roof ashigh as possible and grow within
(15:06):
the room.
But the growth within the roomhas outpaced the ceiling growth.
So now when we get there, weneed an intensity-based approach
specifically to suddenly raisethe ceiling, to punch hard at
it, so to speak, so that impactcomes quick, so you can keep
growing in your little fitnesshouse.
(15:28):
So that secondary phase is wherewe see a more classic approach
of VO2 max intervals, four byfour, uh, all of the things that
will fit into that realm.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
And I and I think too, how doyou know when it's time to raise
the ceiling?
I think it is both um you canfeel it, but it's also timing
based on good periodization andtraining.
Like if you map it out, likewe're talking about from
(16:01):
foundation base one, base two,and then threshold training, and
then now VO2 max training, it'sa matter of weeks, right?
Weeks spent training.
So we're talking about three orI didn't do the math, but
probably like three or fourmonths deep into a cycle, maybe
four or five months into a cyclewhere we hit some zone five uh
intensity, that would be roughlythat time period where uh you
(16:25):
you know it's time.
And and the other reason why Isay it's timing related is
because let's say you'vemasterfully uh built out this
six-month build, or you hiredTim and he did it for you,
you've got an event coming thatwill have high intensity to it.
No matter what happened behindyou, you're gonna have to hit
some high intensity so thatyou're well prepared enough for
(16:49):
this event.
So I still think it's from atiming standpoint is when you
know it's time to hit zone fiveand above.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Yeah, you know, and I get this question all the
time, and I know you do what I'mabout to say.
So I bet you this will resonatereally well.
So people ask me all the time,like, when do you know it's time
to move on?
By the time you're getting intothose intensities, it's usually
something simple because of theway you planned it.
Oh, my event's in 10, 12 weeks,right?
When you wrote that athlete'splan, you did it working
(17:16):
backwards.
You had a key event, they had abig priority, you worked your
plan backwards.
Yes, if we've done everythingreally well physiologically,
we're probably close to thatceiling.
And it's but at that given pointin the training, it's simply
time.
I need this to perform well,therefore I need to do it.
And hopefully you've gotten thebest from the other phases at
(17:38):
that point.
The thing is, what happens whenthat arrives early?
You know, do you keep kind ofpushing at it?
Do you move on?
Even in diminished returns,you're still getting some
return.
So sometimes you're jugglingthat transition into that higher
intensity push for event prepwhere you're stalling for a week
or two, you're maintaining.
But that might be sometimes thebest ideas.
(18:00):
Why?
Time to adaptation.
When you light the fuse inhigher intensity work, which is
we could call VO2 max andanaerobic capacity work, that's
a hot burning fuse, and you onlyhave so much time that's going
to push that peak.
You want to have that timedwell.
SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
Yes.
Yep, exactly.
So timing is is really importanton that.
And additionally, like what justcomes in my head, I had a really
good friend uh send me a textmessage.
I don't coach him, I ride withhim, uh, super good dude.
And he's like, when you'reraising VO2 Max, do you push it
or pull it?
And and I was like, mm-hmm.
(18:36):
And so if I can just define pushmeaning aerobic, pull meaning
zone five and above.
Which which is it, Tim?
What's your answer to that?
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Don't be a reductionist.
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
Exactly, exactly right.
Both, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
It's both because each has their season.
Those are two tools in yourtoolbox, which, in a sense of
periodization timing, athleteneed, you need to use them well
within that schedule, likewithin that periodization
program.
Periodization is a process ofputting things in you know good
progressive order.
Use the tools well.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
Yep.
And one last thing before we getinto uh the adaptations, once we
start to hit the gas at zonefive, what to expect?
I I'll say this is like thereneeds to be concurrent aerobic
training, meaning long rides,length in the long ride, deep in
the long ride, to make VO2 maxtraining work well, even for a
(19:35):
time crunched athlete.
And so as we're incorporatingzone five and above intervals, I
am still going to every week or10 days or whatever kind of
rolling time period, I'm goingto have a long aerobic ride in
there that not only maintainsbut hopefully and ideally builds
aerobic capacity while we'redoing high intensity training.
unknown (19:59):
So
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Would you agree with that, Tim?
And with that said.
Okay.
Couldn't agree more.
With that said, let's talk aboutthe adaptation.
So if we're doing all thatright, it's time to hit zone
five.
In the first one to two weeks,what should an athlete expect to
see once they start doing uhthat intensity?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
First, I expect to see a little fatigue.
Remember, two responses toexercise stimuli.
We have acute response, seven toten days of fatigue.
But at this stage in aperiodized plan, usually a
little more fit.
So we're shortening that down alittle.
Fitness comes a little later.
What we see physiologicallyrespond, and it's important to
say that here because when weget into these higher intensity
(20:40):
workouts, um the evidence ofadaptation tends to come faster.
Like you'll see it very quick.
And as a matter of fact, if youdo it well, it tends to front
load.
When we think about, you know,we're doing VO2 max work.
What we're really measuring ispower at VO2 max.
We often see our ability toproduce higher and sustain and
(21:04):
repeat powers at VO2 max.
Most of your improvement you seepretty early.
Why?
The first two weeks we're seeingchange in heart stroke volume,
plasma volume increase.
Now, we talked about thatearlier.
In early phases, it's an ongoingresponse to exercise stimuli.
VO2 max puts some of the VO2 maxefforts, high-intensity efforts,
(21:27):
zone five efforts, put a highstrain on heart stroke volume.
Our heart is doing everything itcan to keep up.
So, you know, stroke volume is aresponse.
We produce more plasma.
Our heart becomes more elastic,it becomes better at the pump
itself.
All that's working good.
We see more enzyme activity atthe mitochondrial level.
(21:48):
We're developing that capacitybetter and better.
Um that's actually leading tobetter buffering of the acidity
factor.
You're spinning off thosehydrogen atoms, you're now
controlling that better, bothfrom what we had said in the
last episode, psychological,like we're dealing with it.
We're we're dampening all thewarning reactions our body's
(22:08):
putting out and dealing withthat better.
And we're improving glycogenutilization.
We're really beginning to see uhan efficiency in energy
production.
Um it's it's the key immediatedriver that comes very quickly
in these types of workouts.
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
It does come very quickly.
And I'd say back to the controlthing.
If you haven't hit VO2 in awhile, uh by the way, I'm gonna
say VO2 power.
I I've actually had some uhphilosophical uh internet
discussions with listeners andpeople them arguing that there's
no such thing as VO2 power, andyou know that, Adam.
And I'm like, eh, kinda, butlike also it's not VO2 Max, so
(22:50):
we can't so we can either callit zone five or VO2 power.
I'm gonna say VO2 power.
I don't know.
Any anything on for that, Tim?
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
I say max aerobic power to avoid arguments, but
yes, it's a construct, right?
And that construct is veryuseful in understanding,
quantifying, and thinking.
So their physiological, the purephysiology is correct as you
just stated it, but max aerobicpower, power at VO2 max are
constructs or concepts that helpus understand this.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
Yes, yes.
And along those lines, I mean,that that actual uh power that
we're usually working with inzone five is 106 to 121 percent
of FTP, and the perceived effortthat we're working with is a
nine going on 10 out of 10 hardeffort.
Okay, so that's the intensitythat we're talking about here.
Uh, I would say though, if youhaven't hit this in a while,
(23:41):
when you do, you lack control inthe first uh workout.
The second workout, you usuallygain control pretty quickly.
Uh, you get on top of it.
And I don't see as much as like,well, you you might gain some
power right away.
That usually I see that in likethe two to four weeks is when
I'm really like gaining power,uh, you know, an extra five to
(24:05):
ten watts in that, but you justgain a lot of control and RPE
comes down in that first one totwo weeks, like pretty quickly,
because it's like the earthshakes in the first workout or
two, and then it likestabilizes, and then all of a
sudden in two in weeks two tofour, we start to grow power.
Is that also what you see?
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
Absolutely.
And where you'll see some of thebiggest gains is two to five
weeks.
Like, and you'll see most of thegain for the entire phase in
that window if you do it right.
Um, because you've set thestage, all the things, and in
what's driving thoseimprovements in two to four
weeks is basically the samethings that were driving it in
(24:44):
the first two weeks.
You're just getting better atit.
Like, that's being improvedupon.
You're and and and that's asystem efficiency.
That's not quite thephysiological term.
It's a system economy, actually,also.
But that's the sweet spot ofgain.
That's where suddenly, like,wow, my uh I'm putting out a
couple extra watts and I can dothat other interval and that
(25:05):
other interval and be incontrol.
That's the sweet spot of gainfor higher intensity range.
For me, my experience, thatthree to five, two to five
weeks, it depends what they weredoing before.
It's after that that you have tobe careful because the that
rapid gain in that phase canlead to an early uh the need for
(25:28):
an early exit, meaning you canstagnate there pretty quickly.
And I actually see that as areasonably constant mistake in
the self-coached athlete.
SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Yeah, so essentially dragging out a VO2 phase too
long.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
And you're just hammering in fatigue for no
gain, which is always a badidea.
SPEAKER_00 (25:48):
Yeah.
And one tip I I throw out thereis to like you can err on the
side of caution with this, andinstead of like a three-in-one,
you could maybe use a two inone.
So hit it hard for two weeks,take an easy week, and then hit
another round of tweaks.
And that to me, for aself-coached athlete, would be
uh uh less risk, more gain sortof situation or sort of uh
(26:13):
tactic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Yeah, you know, and it's cliche, but it's so
important in this phase.
This is a quality versusquantity phase.
Now, what you really want isboth, don't get me wrong.
Yeah, but don't pursue one atthe loss of the other, meaning I
want to deliver quality.
I need quality work in thisphase, because the quality,
(26:34):
you've moved from more of ageneral concept when we're in
aerobic phases and movingthrough aerobics to now you're
being more specific.
The idea, remember, VO2 max is aphysiological state.
What we're talking about is atraining zone, 105 to 120% of
FTP, that targets the highest uhor that most impacts that VO2
(26:57):
max physiological state, like,and but the impact is in your
cardiovascular system.
VO2 max is just a measurement ofhow capable that is.
So the work in that load ismeant to improve its main
driver, and it it improves yourmetabolics, it improves your
neuromuscular, but its maindriver is the cardiovascular
(27:18):
push.
That's you've already done a lotof work, you've done all your
zone two, you've gone throughyour aerobic base.
This is a, and the way I like toexplain it, this is a sharpening
cycle.
Aerobic is a building cycle.
Uh intensive, what I callintensive aerobic tempo, your
second phase.
That's a building cycle.
FTP is still a building cycle.
(27:40):
Now you're moving intosharpening.
Now I am taking gained fitnessand I'm expressing it into what
I really want.
Because what you really don't,power is nice to have.
What you want is velocity.
You want to get, like, thinkabout the definition of power.
Everybody listening, right?
This is a weird sidebar, butI'll break it together.
Power is, you know, time overdistance.
(28:01):
Like how fast I can go frompoint A to point B.
That's we know what a watt is,but that's what power is.
We have the ultimate way ofmeasuring this, but so it
unfortunately makes us thinkeverything in power.
What you really want isvelocity.
So sharpening phases aren't justdriven at power, or they're not
just they're targeting aspecific physiological response,
(28:24):
the improvement incardiovascular capability to
allow me to produce more speed.
unknown (28:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:31):
Quality matters when you start thinking about that.
Like that is what you're reallygoing for.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So when we're talking aboutinterval workouts, uh, some zone
five, uh, VO2 power, power atmax, what kind of interval
durations are you working with,Tim?
Uh, where would be like theshortest, where would be the
longest interval that you woulddo?
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
It depends.
Um, yeah, the beauty of VO2,Max, you can keep this simple.
Another area where people loveto make this overly complex.
And there's some reason for it.
For me, I like to just use astraight-up interval process.
There's plenty of reasons to usevariable intervals or short
intense intervals, like 40, 20,30, 15s, things like that.
(29:17):
And I'll use them at times.
But when I'm in the phase whereI want this specific
development, I'm using a rangefrom three-minute intervals,
five, maybe six.
Like I'll do four dimes eightsand this and that, but I see
those as a little differentpurposeful.
My when I want speed, when Iwant this system development,
(29:37):
I'm in that range.
The way I target though, that isa little bit unique.
Not and maybe it's right.
I mean, I believe it's right.
Um, if you're a highly aerobicathlete with a lesser sprint,
let's just say, so you have athat your P max relationship to
your threshold is not that high.
So you have a lot of slow twitchmuscle, um, that athlete will
(30:01):
benefit from more shorterintervals.
So if I'm doing a time trial, soI might be targeting three to
three and a half, maybe fourminutes, and I'll do more of
those intervals.
The reason being that athletedoesn't have a lot of anaerobic
capacity, they burn off thatanaerobic capacity very early in
the interval because they don'thave a lot of fast switch
muscle.
They right are at some form ofhigh cardiovascular strain.
(30:26):
They're close or at or near VO2max very quickly, and they're
just going as hard as they can.
They're not producing a ton oflactate because they don't have
a lot of fast switch muscle.
It's the athlete that has a highsprint, high kind of one-minute
power in relationship to theirVO2 max.
So a more fast twitchpredominant athlete, those are
the ones that need to do longerintervals, which usually makes
(30:49):
them angry.
So that's always a strugglebecause they don't want to do
longer.
Because what happens for anathlete with more fast twitch
muscle, they have more anaerobiccapacity.
Their VO2 kinetics, theiruptake, how quickly they're
getting to at or near VO2 max,that takes longer because
they're masking that journeywith a good anaerobic
(31:10):
contribution, a lot of storedenergy, let's just say.
So they might need a minute, aminute 15 to come to a high, you
know, uh cardiovascular demandclose to VO2 max.
So you've got to burn that outof them by extending and making
the longer interval.
And the trade-off is they mighthave less overall intervals.
(31:32):
Both sets, though, I usuallyhave a pretty clear target of
total time at intensity.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
And what would be like a total time at intensity
for, and I know this is you'regonna say it depends, but let's
just say a fairly mature, you'vebeen coaching them for three
years, uh, well-tuned engine.
What's uh a range of time atintensity for a VO2 workout?
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
So two levels to answer that.
Um I typically it depends on theathlete a little bit, but in the
range of 20 to 25 minutes, totaltime, well, because you said
mature athlete, right?
In a range of 20 to 25, I mightstart at 15 minutes, the first
one, like you know, depending onthe athlete you're doing, five
times three or something likethat.
(32:21):
Immature athlete, less.
So immature means less training.
So we said mature.
But what I really want to workbackwards, I want the athlete
to, if we can measure this inreal time, I want them to
experience during all theintervals.
If I looked at full time ofintensity, I want them to have
12 to 15 minutes at or neartheir VO2 max.
(32:42):
Like that's the total load Iwant to get out of the
intervals.
That's ideal.
There's a fair amount ofresearch that pretty much shows
that going over 15 minutes at ornear VO2 max, significantly
diminished returns, probably notworth the fatigue of investing
in.
Now, you get a highly efficientand developed athlete.
They might need more because,again, there's a lot of things
(33:02):
happening under the hood there.
But that's a really good target.
Now, if it takes you one minuteto get up to VO2 max in every
interval, that's why you mightneed 21 minutes to get 15,
right?
You might need 18 to get 12.
That's the variable, and thatcomes back to like the athlete's
individual needs.
(33:22):
But you can ballpark that prettywell in understanding by looking
at heart rate.
Like, what is their heart rateuptick in intervals and trying
to get a feeling that way?
And heart rate's very variable.
It's hard to coach by heartrate, but it gives us excellent
insight into the strain.
So that's what I'm targeting inmy intervals.
I want to start on the low sideof that, and progression is key.
(33:45):
Like ABP.
A B P.
Always be pushing in thesephases.
Like, don't settle.
Like once you light thisfast-acting fuse, let it burn.
Be careful.
And that's why you need tosleep, eat, recover, reduce your
overall volume.
I love keeping one long dayabsolutely uh crucial, but maybe
(34:07):
re reduce the days, other days'volumes a little more, a little
depends on how time crunch.
Uh like for a full trainingathlete, I'll reduce overall
volume in this stage 20%.
unknown (34:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
I was going to say 20, 25%.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Yeah, and it depends on what that volume is exactly.
Because you want them to alsoadapt to that.
You want them to burn that fuse.
You want them to keep pushingevery interval set.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So just to kind of reiterate afew points, I I would definitely
say without beingreductionistic, 15 minutes is a
great starting point for time inzone.
Scale up and down, depending onhow new to the sport uh or how
established you are, like in thesport, but at least 15 minutes
of time in zone, aim for that,and that's good.
(34:53):
So that's five by three, eightby two.
Uh name the the recipe ofintervals to to get there.
Um, but yes, I I would also sayduring this phase of training,
it's not the time to reach forthe stars.
I always tell that to myathletes like, don't be
reaching.
Like, you don't need to tack onan extra 15 minutes and get a
(35:13):
gold star from coach today.
You don't need to do an extrainterval because like we're I'm
already designing it to max youout, right?
And it some asterisk and caveatsthere, but you want to be
careful in this as opposed toyou know, zone three, you can be
kind of sloppy.
You can kind of add a little bitmore here, do a little bit more
because it's it's all aerobic,right?
(35:35):
Um, so I mean, anything to addon to that, Tim?
SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
Yeah.
Everybody who just heard whatAdam just said, go back, rewind,
and listen again.
It's the concept of what I callthis is it all VO2 max workouts
are advanced workouts.
Here's why.
They're not advanced because ohwait, my coach said do uh five
times four minutes with fourminutes rest.
That seems really simple.
They're advanced because there'san intensity discipline here
(36:01):
that it doesn't mean like you'retrying to hit a perfect target.
You're going hard.
But all of the things you'redoing around that workout, what
you're doing the week, you haveto be super cautious in that.
It is not the work you can do,it's the work you can adapt to
that's gonna drive the results.
And I see so many athletes getinto this phase and they do some
(36:23):
really good stuff.
And then nobody takes this withthe fence.
Then you do some really dumbstuff and you throw away a lot
of work.
Like that's what I mean byintensity discipline.
I don't just mean am I doing 305watts or 308 watts.
I'm talking about in this phasethat you need to be day in, day
out, disciplined, and don'tthrow it away because I'm
(36:44):
starting to feel great.
I'm not gonna tell my coach, butI'm gonna, after my two-hour
workout, I'm gonna jump in thelocal group ride and throw down
and crush some souls.
That's not the right way to doit.
Once in a while, it's fine.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
Yeah, you can you can shoot yourself in the foot
there.
Um and too, I mean, I I thinkfor all my athletes listening,
uh, as well as Tim's, um, youneed to understand that we do
actually stress about these worklike building these workouts and
taking the more individualizedapproach to this.
This is just isn't like acopy-paste sort of thing.
I'm thinking about how muchstrain is being caused to the
(37:24):
system.
And so I want you to do that andgo less off script in workouts
like this.
Um, and in additionally, I Ithink that for a self-coached
athlete, maybe that doesn't haveall the analytics or you don't
want to dive deep, go back towhat and say, well, should I do
five-minute intervals or ortwo-minute intervals?
Just go back to what Tim said isand ask yourself, which interval
(37:48):
length do you prefer?
Now do the opposite.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Great advice.
Uh I like this one.
That other one sucks.
Yes, do the one that sucks.
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Because self-coach athletes, and95% of the people out there will
not go hard enough on the harddays.
There's some masochistic peoplethat like will go full send and
do it properly, but like most ofus, myself included, very lazy,
and we will not go as hard as weshould in order to make a game.
SPEAKER_01 (38:23):
That's part of the adaptation.
Yeah.
Like honestly, one of the thingsthat newer cyclists go through
is you have to learn how to gohard.
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
Like you don't know what hard is, right?
There's an element of continuingto experience harder until you
understand hard.
The first time you lay on theside of the ground and throw up,
that's usually you figuring itout.
You know, that might have been alittle too hard.
That's when you go, you've gotto go over that edge to find the
balance.
SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
Right.
But I appreciate athletes likethat because now I'm like, okay,
good.
Now we just dial it back.
Yeah.
Just a little bit.
Then we got it.
And it's to that end, it's like,okay, you know, I've had
athletes like, when do I when doI know I need to raise my
ceiling?
Not only from a timingstandpoint, but sometimes you
just need to go freaking hard.
SPEAKER_01 (39:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
You need to blow it out because you don't know where
your edge is unless you go findit.
And then once you do, and thatgoes into like testing um
episodes that Tim and I havedone about how to know where
your zones are at and all thiskind of stuff.
Sometimes you just need to goreal freaking hard because if
you're doing events, if you'redoing group rides, if you're
doing races, those things startway harder than you want them
(39:30):
to.
And doing some zone five andabove work is gonna help you
prepare for when you get punchedin the face.
Because you can have thegreatest plan in the world, but
you get punched and everythingchanges.
SPEAKER_01 (39:42):
Exactly the limitation from episode one of
too much zone two.
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Yeah.
Yep.
That's right.
So with that said, Tim, we'regonna wrap this one here a
little bit shorter than theothers.
Um, but uh, you know, beforeBefore we go, I do want to ask.
You're wearing a cool shirt,says uh Basecamp.
Uh, can you tell us a little bitmore about what Basecamp is,
(40:08):
your involvement with it, and ifour listeners uh want to um
explore it more, where where canthey do that?
SPEAKER_01 (40:15):
Oh, well, thanks.
Um, I appreciate you liking myshirt.
No, uh, well, Basecamp EnduranceCoaching, we are a classic
coaching company, as everybodyknows.
We have over 30 coaches.
We have strength leaders,nutritionists, PhD,
nutritionists on staff.
As a matter of fact, we we'revery science-heavy.
We have seven PhDs in the team.
(40:37):
Um we do classic one-on-onecoaching, but what we're really
known for kind of is ourcommunity approach.
Uh, we run unique winter-basedprograms that are really based
on strength, training,nutrition, mental performance,
all working together in anathlete.
The community is a learningcommunity.
So you train together, learntogether with the focus of just
(41:01):
helping people figure all thisstuff out.
And how can I be a betterathlete?
How can I optimize my training?
How do I optimize my nutritionand strength work?
Um, we also do all the otherclassic coaching company things.
We do some camps and tours andstuff like that.
Uh, you can always check us outat joinbasecamp.com.
Uh, see the different thingsthat we do, uh, throw in a
(41:24):
question, and maybe we can helpyou, you know, or or not.
Always glad to uh chat.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Yeah, and uh, you know, I follow Tim on uh
Instagram, and even though he'snot as active as a junior
cyclist there, but he travels tosome pretty cool places.
So um if if anyone wants to getmore of Tim Cusick, um I go to
Instagram, but also go toBasecamp.
Check out what they're doingthere because it is really
unique.
(41:50):
Uh I'm a big fan of what uh Timand the whole team does over
there.
So I think it's a it's a prettycool resource and uh just do a a
little plug for that um becauseit is different, um, and it's a
different way of of uh gettingpeople fit, which I'm all about.
SPEAKER_01 (42:06):
Thanks for that.
SPEAKER_00 (42:09):
All right, Tim.
Well, um we're gonna end thisVO2 uh phase of episoding right
now, and then we've got one moreto go.
So for all of our listeners whoare rocking and rolling with
this little mini-series of uhtime course of adaptation, be
sure to come back next week forthe fourth and final episode
where uh Tim and I will talkabout anaerobic capacity and
(42:32):
what to expect in youradaptation journey there.
Thanks for joining us on theTime Crunch Cyclist Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even more actionabletraining advice, head over to
trainwright.com backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
Each week you'll get in depthtraining content that goes
(42:56):
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast that'll help you take
your training to the next level.
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
From the team at CTS, this is the Time Crunch
Cyclist Podcast, our showdedicated to answering your
training questions and providingactionable advice to help you
improve your performance, evenif you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, Coach AdamPolford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches who makeup the team at CTS.
(00:27):
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
other coaches, and experts inthe field to provide you with
the practical ways to get themost out of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now, on to our show.
(00:52):
Today is part three in a serieson the time course of adaptation
to endurance training.
And back with me is Coach TimCusick.
Tim, welcome back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Uh I'll say it again.
Thanks for having me again.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Absolutely.
It is my pleasure.
I always learn uh so much whenI'm talking to you, Tim, whether
it is uh here on a podcast orsome random location in Boulder,
Colorado, or uh streamingeverything that you've done on
YouTube.
So uh thank you for taking a tonof time out of your day-to-day
to uh make all these all theseepisodes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
So last week we talked uh about how quickly
someone could start respondingto FTP training, emphasizing the
aerobic, the glycolytic energysystem, which is the most
trainable energy system, by theway, in your body.
And we can spend a lot of timetraining there.
However, we need to change thetraining stimulus to keep
(01:51):
improving overall and keepmoving the ship forward.
And we use higher intensities todo that, but we need concurrent
aerobic training to uh alsosupplement that.
So today's topic is VO2 maxtraining, and we're gonna talk
about the adaptations associatedwith that.
But Tim, one complicated thingthat I hope you can make simple
(02:12):
is if I were to ask you how islactate threshold and VO2 max
both similar and different atthe same time, how how would you
uh tell our audience or howwould you tell a young coach
what is kind of the differencein the similarities between
these two conceptually?
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
Okay, wow, that's a complex question.
So let's simplify, let's startwith we're talking about VO2max.
VO2max has been utilized as thename of a training zone in this,
you know, in multiple differentzone systems for a long time.
And that confuses people to somedegree.
So let's pull back from that.
VO2max is a physiological state.
(02:56):
So the word max is veryimportant there because that's
the maximal rate of which youcan intake, uptake, and utilize
oxygen, right?
So it's a as a couple of uhpoints to that.
There's a couple of things goingon, but how much oxygen and how
efficiently, you know, how muchcan I get into the system and
how much can I utilize?
(03:16):
But the output is importantthere.
There's actually P VO2 max, it'spower.
So when we think about theconcept for endurance athletes,
for cyclists in specific, whatVO2max is a physiological state.
What we're really focused on isputting how much power we can
put out when we are in thatstate.
(03:37):
So that concept of VO2 max needsto be established.
So now we talk about FTP, andthat's why I have to translate
it to a concept of power,because FTP is a functional
threshold power.
You use the term lactatethreshold too, which is more
physiologically descriptive.
They are both similar andrelated, so but a world apart.
(04:02):
That's why it's complicated.
When we begin to, when we hitLT2, when we hit uh lactate
threshold too, we are producingmore byproduct for the extra for
this the intensity we're goingthan our body can comfortably
deal with.
So, what's the real impact ofthat?
The onset of rapid fatigue,meaning powers above FTP, we can
(04:22):
only hold for a very short time.
Powers below, we can hold for amuch longer, more significant
time.
And that's because at FTP andabove, or at LT2 and above, not
only are we dealing with allthis byproduct, we are shifting
most of the load, most of theenergy requirements to being
(04:44):
anaerobic.
Um we're producing uh most ofthe energy, almost all of the
energy, depends on how intenseyou go, but all of the energy uh
through the utilization ofcarbs, we're anaerobic in
nature.
A lot of that energy is beingproduced in the absence of
oxygen.
And that, you know, so we have alimited amount of time that we
can sustain that.
(05:05):
Um that transition actuallystarts happening below FTP, just
not to confuse everybody, morearound 80 to 85 percent of FTP,
but it's it's purely dominant atFTP and above.
So the physiologicalrelationship looks like this.
In the last episode, I definedFTP as a simple metabolic
(05:27):
indicator.
It's a metabolic fitness.
It gives us an understanding ofthat energy system and how we
deal with byproducts.
Our VO2 max is probably the verygreatest indicator of our
cardiovascular fitness.
Um, those two relate because, inthe end of the day, your VO2
(05:47):
max, your cardiovascularcapability, maybe not fitness as
the right word, but yourcardiovascular fitness is always
gonna limit your metabolicfitness.
VO2 max is always the cap toyour LT2.
That's known as fractionalutilization.
There's only so much of thatoxygen coming, there's only so
(06:10):
much output we're gonna be ableto produce in that short amount
of time.
And that's about 85%.
There's range, there'svariation, it's trainable, you
can improve that, but yourfractional utilization, what I'm
describing, is around 85 to 90%,depends on the athlete in
training.
But you'll never succeed that.
Like, so the relationship tothose two, here's a simple way
(06:32):
to explain what I just said.
Imagine you have a house with aceiling and a roof.
You start training aerobic, youstart doing some, all your base
one, base two training, you'redoing a lot of aerobic work,
your threshold is growing,you're getting taller in that
house.
So your fitness is growing, yourmetabolic capability is going,
(06:52):
your FTP is going up, but theresuddenly becomes a point where
you're now bumping up againstthe ceiling.
You cannot grow anymore in thathouse because that
cardiovascular ceiling, thatVO2-max ceiling, is limiting
growth.
And at that point, and here'swhy the relationship is so
important, you have to invest inactually raising the ceiling
(07:14):
before FTP will grow again.
You have to create more room togrow.
So the two are very relative inperforming athletes because it's
the give and take, the exchange,so to speak, as we begin to get
more fit, deeper in ourperiodized plan, closer to
performance phases.
(07:35):
We have to make that investmentin those two elements because
they're two totally uniquethings, but they limit, well,
they relate, work together, butyet one acts as a limiter of the
other.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think when I'm trying tocommunicate this to my athletes
is I say, you know, VO2 max, maxis max, and that that will be uh
the the power or the oxygenthat's coming into the system at
maximum.
FTP is the highest rate that wecan work relative to VO2 max,
(08:10):
and we're gonna try to get thatup into that 85-90% because the
higher I can go steady at max,the better in general for
endurance athletes.
However, that then you have likespecificity and and and some of
these other aspects that um comeinto when we want more anaerobic
or or more aerobic and thingslike this, but that's that
(08:33):
percentage of FTP to VO2 maxthat Tim is talking about there.
And and so for uh to you, Tim,do you see even elite athletes
kind of sticking to that 85 to90 percent?
Can they go a little bit above?
And for a time-crunched athlete,should they be shooting for a
conceptual 85 to 90 percent ofFTP to VO2 relationship?
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Yeah, I mean, there's always outliers.
So you can they can.
Um, and it takes if you were tobe a professional athlete
constantly testing this, there'sa lot of testing and there's
some margin of error and allthat.
You really want to know ifyou're in that ballpark.
Also, whether you could be 85 or90, your muscle fiber type
itself will have an impact onwhere exactly that target might
(09:18):
be.
Come, you know, anothercomplexity there.
I think for the time-crunchedathlete, it's probably more
important to listen to thesecond thing I said.
You have a house, you grow inyour house.
You have to learn to feel whenyou're bumping against the
ceiling.
Like, and your coach does too,because you probably have most
(09:38):
time-crunched athletes will bemore close to 90 at all given
times.
Because your your VO2 max istrainable and it's more impacted
within a time-crunched athlete,um, you know, in that sense.
So your your metabolic fitness,you know, you're training all
the time, you're pretty good.
(09:59):
You're actually overreaching inthat sense, in one way.
Um man, it's complex.
I never thought about it as hardfor the time crunch, because
what's happening, you'reprobably doing more work at
higher intensities as a timecrunched athlete, and that's
absolutely the right answerwithin the right controls.
So you tend to um have uh youknow a different or slightly
(10:22):
different relationship in thatdevelopment that's inverse than
what you would expect.
You probably have um a rereduced power at VO2 max for
that intensity and a higherpower at lactate threshold too
or FTP in your physiologicalrelationship.
(10:43):
Why?
Fatigue is multifaceted, andthis is where it gets really
complex.
There's other things in therethat are the limiters.
There's things that's happeningthat if you're not a higher
volume training, that's limitingyour ability to produce power at
VO2 max.
Fatigue is very multifaceted,it's biochemical in nature.
So you're not testing well.
So, long story short, you'reprobably closer to that 90, and
(11:07):
that's a good thing.
But the time-crunched athleteneeds to be cognitive of
stagnation plateaus, lack ofdevelopmental growth in the FTP
focused training, and know whenit's like, wow, I need to raise
the ceiling.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Okay.
I I do agree with that, and Iwould say for my time-crunched
athletes, I I lean intodeveloping and increasing FTP
more than VO2 Max, is because Iknow that I'm limited on that in
the way of volume.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
100% right answer.
And that's why I hesitated andanswered.
I should have thought thisquestion out more because it's
easy to fall victim to too muchhigh-intensity training load,
which will actually make that uhequation look better, more like
85%, but will have less impacton your performance.
And this is where you have to becareful when we're always
(12:00):
talking about physiologicalresponse.
Science doesn't have all theanswers to performance, right?
So the science of that mightsay, do this.
Your wisdom mastery, right?
You know better.
You've been around a long timeand it's 100% spot on.
And for anybody listening, it's100% spot on.
You want to pay that price ofthe 90-ish percent if you were
(12:22):
measuring it that exact.
You want the threshold driver inthere with occasional bouts of
ceiling raising, will give you abetter overall response.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
Yeah.
So for the time crunch athlete,just know if you were to double
down on one versus the other,I'd go FTP every time.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Every time for time crunch athlete.
Absolutely.
Because it's the crossover ofit's the it's the linchpin of
all the different kinds ofprocesses.
Your best the metabolic fitnessside of that equation is
absolutely worth pursuing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Yep.
Yep.
And I and I want to point outthat as FTP grows, so does VO2
Max because they're aerobicallycorrelated.
But now as listeners arelistening here, is maybe getting
a little confused, or how do Iraise my ceiling, Tim?
What would you say for for bothlet you you can answer for high
(13:18):
volume athlete as well astime-crunched athlete, but what
would be one technique to raisethat ceiling?
And then maybe we can like backinto the time crunchiness of it
and then talk about theadaptations once we do start to
hit some zone five.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
All right, this is much simpler to explain.
So good.
I would go universal answer, goback to episode one.
First off, the single biggestway most of us can raise FTP is
ride your bike a lot.
Like do a lot of aerobictraining.
VO2 Max, in a large way, and thegreatest contribution is you're
(13:55):
really raising it.
You're remember what I said inepisode one, we tend to think
about aerobic and anaerobic asside-by-side elements of energy.
I start out aerobic and I startmoving to the right as power
goes up, and eventually I goanaerobic.
Turn that out inside, it'sstacked.
So the better aerobic fitness,the better we lift all boats.
Like, and that's what'shappening.
So investing in your aerobicfitness in early foundational,
(14:18):
early base training,particularly is challenging for
a uh a time-crunched athletebecause it almost feels like I'm
wasting time.
Like, ah, but I got I only havesix, eight hours this week.
I need more intensity.
Be patient, right?
You've you're you are building,you're just pushing it slowly up
from below.
It'll work.
Then what I find in um, then youneed a secondary phase.
(14:43):
But that's secondary phase, thetiming is tricky.
So I'll give the easy answer.
When you're you're bangingagainst the ceiling, when your
head's hitting the ceiling iswhen a but the secondary phase
comes in a more intensivemanner.
And there's where, and becausewe've used the aerobic time
we've had to raise the roof ashigh as possible and grow within
(15:06):
the room.
But the growth within the roomhas outpaced the ceiling growth.
So now when we get there, weneed an intensity-based approach
specifically to suddenly raisethe ceiling, to punch hard at
it, so to speak, so that impactcomes quick, so you can keep
growing in your little fitnesshouse.
(15:28):
So that secondary phase is wherewe see a more classic approach
of VO2 max intervals, four byfour, uh, all of the things that
will fit into that realm.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
And I and I think too, how doyou know when it's time to raise
the ceiling?
I think it is both um you canfeel it, but it's also timing
based on good periodization andtraining.
Like if you map it out, likewe're talking about from
(16:01):
foundation base one, base two,and then threshold training, and
then now VO2 max training, it'sa matter of weeks, right?
Weeks spent training.
So we're talking about three orI didn't do the math, but
probably like three or fourmonths deep into a cycle, maybe
four or five months into a cyclewhere we hit some zone five uh
intensity, that would be roughlythat time period where uh you
(16:25):
you know it's time.
And and the other reason why Isay it's timing related is
because let's say you'vemasterfully uh built out this
six-month build, or you hiredTim and he did it for you,
you've got an event coming thatwill have high intensity to it.
No matter what happened behindyou, you're gonna have to hit
some high intensity so thatyou're well prepared enough for
(16:49):
this event.
So I still think it's from atiming standpoint is when you
know it's time to hit zone fiveand above.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Yeah, you know, and I get this question all the
time, and I know you do what I'mabout to say.
So I bet you this will resonatereally well.
So people ask me all the time,like, when do you know it's time
to move on?
By the time you're getting intothose intensities, it's usually
something simple because of theway you planned it.
Oh, my event's in 10, 12 weeks,right?
When you wrote that athlete'splan, you did it working
(17:16):
backwards.
You had a key event, they had abig priority, you worked your
plan backwards.
Yes, if we've done everythingreally well physiologically,
we're probably close to thatceiling.
And it's but at that given pointin the training, it's simply
time.
I need this to perform well,therefore I need to do it.
And hopefully you've gotten thebest from the other phases at
(17:38):
that point.
The thing is, what happens whenthat arrives early?
You know, do you keep kind ofpushing at it?
Do you move on?
Even in diminished returns,you're still getting some
return.
So sometimes you're jugglingthat transition into that higher
intensity push for event prepwhere you're stalling for a week
or two, you're maintaining.
But that might be sometimes thebest ideas.
(18:00):
Why?
Time to adaptation.
When you light the fuse inhigher intensity work, which is
we could call VO2 max andanaerobic capacity work, that's
a hot burning fuse, and you onlyhave so much time that's going
to push that peak.
You want to have that timedwell.
SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
Yes.
Yep, exactly.
So timing is is really importanton that.
And additionally, like what justcomes in my head, I had a really
good friend uh send me a textmessage.
I don't coach him, I ride withhim, uh, super good dude.
And he's like, when you'reraising VO2 Max, do you push it
or pull it?
And and I was like, mm-hmm.
(18:36):
And so if I can just define pushmeaning aerobic, pull meaning
zone five and above.
Which which is it, Tim?
What's your answer to that?
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Don't be a reductionist.
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
Exactly, exactly right.
Both, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
It's both because each has their season.
Those are two tools in yourtoolbox, which, in a sense of
periodization timing, athleteneed, you need to use them well
within that schedule, likewithin that periodization
program.
Periodization is a process ofputting things in you know good
progressive order.
Use the tools well.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
Yep.
And one last thing before we getinto uh the adaptations, once we
start to hit the gas at zonefive, what to expect?
I I'll say this is like thereneeds to be concurrent aerobic
training, meaning long rides,length in the long ride, deep in
the long ride, to make VO2 maxtraining work well, even for a
(19:35):
time crunched athlete.
And so as we're incorporatingzone five and above intervals, I
am still going to every week or10 days or whatever kind of
rolling time period, I'm goingto have a long aerobic ride in
there that not only maintainsbut hopefully and ideally builds
aerobic capacity while we'redoing high intensity training.
unknown (19:59):
So
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Would you agree with that, Tim?
And with that said.
Okay.
Couldn't agree more.
With that said, let's talk aboutthe adaptation.
So if we're doing all thatright, it's time to hit zone
five.
In the first one to two weeks,what should an athlete expect to
see once they start doing uhthat intensity?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
First, I expect to see a little fatigue.
Remember, two responses toexercise stimuli.
We have acute response, seven toten days of fatigue.
But at this stage in aperiodized plan, usually a
little more fit.
So we're shortening that down alittle.
Fitness comes a little later.
What we see physiologicallyrespond, and it's important to
say that here because when weget into these higher intensity
(20:40):
workouts, um the evidence ofadaptation tends to come faster.
Like you'll see it very quick.
And as a matter of fact, if youdo it well, it tends to front
load.
When we think about, you know,we're doing VO2 max work.
What we're really measuring ispower at VO2 max.
We often see our ability toproduce higher and sustain and
(21:04):
repeat powers at VO2 max.
Most of your improvement you seepretty early.
Why?
The first two weeks we're seeingchange in heart stroke volume,
plasma volume increase.
Now, we talked about thatearlier.
In early phases, it's an ongoingresponse to exercise stimuli.
VO2 max puts some of the VO2 maxefforts, high-intensity efforts,
(21:27):
zone five efforts, put a highstrain on heart stroke volume.
Our heart is doing everything itcan to keep up.
So, you know, stroke volume is aresponse.
We produce more plasma.
Our heart becomes more elastic,it becomes better at the pump
itself.
All that's working good.
We see more enzyme activity atthe mitochondrial level.
(21:48):
We're developing that capacitybetter and better.
Um that's actually leading tobetter buffering of the acidity
factor.
You're spinning off thosehydrogen atoms, you're now
controlling that better, bothfrom what we had said in the
last episode, psychological,like we're dealing with it.
We're we're dampening all thewarning reactions our body's
(22:08):
putting out and dealing withthat better.
And we're improving glycogenutilization.
We're really beginning to see uhan efficiency in energy
production.
Um it's it's the key immediatedriver that comes very quickly
in these types of workouts.
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
It does come very quickly.
And I'd say back to the controlthing.
If you haven't hit VO2 in awhile, uh by the way, I'm gonna
say VO2 power.
I I've actually had some uhphilosophical uh internet
discussions with listeners andpeople them arguing that there's
no such thing as VO2 power, andyou know that, Adam.
And I'm like, eh, kinda, butlike also it's not VO2 Max, so
(22:50):
we can't so we can either callit zone five or VO2 power.
I'm gonna say VO2 power.
I don't know.
Any anything on for that, Tim?
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
I say max aerobic power to avoid arguments, but
yes, it's a construct, right?
And that construct is veryuseful in understanding,
quantifying, and thinking.
So their physiological, the purephysiology is correct as you
just stated it, but max aerobicpower, power at VO2 max are
constructs or concepts that helpus understand this.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
Yes, yes.
And along those lines, I mean,that that actual uh power that
we're usually working with inzone five is 106 to 121 percent
of FTP, and the perceived effortthat we're working with is a
nine going on 10 out of 10 hardeffort.
Okay, so that's the intensitythat we're talking about here.
Uh, I would say though, if youhaven't hit this in a while,
(23:41):
when you do, you lack control inthe first uh workout.
The second workout, you usuallygain control pretty quickly.
Uh, you get on top of it.
And I don't see as much as like,well, you you might gain some
power right away.
That usually I see that in likethe two to four weeks is when
I'm really like gaining power,uh, you know, an extra five to
(24:05):
ten watts in that, but you justgain a lot of control and RPE
comes down in that first one totwo weeks, like pretty quickly,
because it's like the earthshakes in the first workout or
two, and then it likestabilizes, and then all of a
sudden in two in weeks two tofour, we start to grow power.
Is that also what you see?
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
Absolutely.
And where you'll see some of thebiggest gains is two to five
weeks.
Like, and you'll see most of thegain for the entire phase in
that window if you do it right.
Um, because you've set thestage, all the things, and in
what's driving thoseimprovements in two to four
weeks is basically the samethings that were driving it in
(24:44):
the first two weeks.
You're just getting better atit.
Like, that's being improvedupon.
You're and and and that's asystem efficiency.
That's not quite thephysiological term.
It's a system economy, actually,also.
But that's the sweet spot ofgain.
That's where suddenly, like,wow, my uh I'm putting out a
couple extra watts and I can dothat other interval and that
(25:05):
other interval and be incontrol.
That's the sweet spot of gainfor higher intensity range.
For me, my experience, thatthree to five, two to five
weeks, it depends what they weredoing before.
It's after that that you have tobe careful because the that
rapid gain in that phase canlead to an early uh the need for
(25:28):
an early exit, meaning you canstagnate there pretty quickly.
And I actually see that as areasonably constant mistake in
the self-coached athlete.
SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Yeah, so essentially dragging out a VO2 phase too
long.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
And you're just hammering in fatigue for no
gain, which is always a badidea.
SPEAKER_00 (25:48):
Yeah.
And one tip I I throw out thereis to like you can err on the
side of caution with this, andinstead of like a three-in-one,
you could maybe use a two inone.
So hit it hard for two weeks,take an easy week, and then hit
another round of tweaks.
And that to me, for aself-coached athlete, would be
uh uh less risk, more gain sortof situation or sort of uh
(26:13):
tactic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Yeah, you know, and it's cliche, but it's so
important in this phase.
This is a quality versusquantity phase.
Now, what you really want isboth, don't get me wrong.
Yeah, but don't pursue one atthe loss of the other, meaning I
want to deliver quality.
I need quality work in thisphase, because the quality,
(26:34):
you've moved from more of ageneral concept when we're in
aerobic phases and movingthrough aerobics to now you're
being more specific.
The idea, remember, VO2 max is aphysiological state.
What we're talking about is atraining zone, 105 to 120% of
FTP, that targets the highest uhor that most impacts that VO2
(26:57):
max physiological state, like,and but the impact is in your
cardiovascular system.
VO2 max is just a measurement ofhow capable that is.
So the work in that load ismeant to improve its main
driver, and it it improves yourmetabolics, it improves your
neuromuscular, but its maindriver is the cardiovascular
(27:18):
push.
That's you've already done a lotof work, you've done all your
zone two, you've gone throughyour aerobic base.
This is a, and the way I like toexplain it, this is a sharpening
cycle.
Aerobic is a building cycle.
Uh intensive, what I callintensive aerobic tempo, your
second phase.
That's a building cycle.
FTP is still a building cycle.
(27:40):
Now you're moving intosharpening.
Now I am taking gained fitnessand I'm expressing it into what
I really want.
Because what you really don't,power is nice to have.
What you want is velocity.
You want to get, like, thinkabout the definition of power.
Everybody listening, right?
This is a weird sidebar, butI'll break it together.
Power is, you know, time overdistance.
(28:01):
Like how fast I can go frompoint A to point B.
That's we know what a watt is,but that's what power is.
We have the ultimate way ofmeasuring this, but so it
unfortunately makes us thinkeverything in power.
What you really want isvelocity.
So sharpening phases aren't justdriven at power, or they're not
just they're targeting aspecific physiological response,
(28:24):
the improvement incardiovascular capability to
allow me to produce more speed.
unknown (28:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:31):
Quality matters when you start thinking about that.
Like that is what you're reallygoing for.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So when we're talking aboutinterval workouts, uh, some zone
five, uh, VO2 power, power atmax, what kind of interval
durations are you working with,Tim?
Uh, where would be like theshortest, where would be the
longest interval that you woulddo?
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
It depends.
Um, yeah, the beauty of VO2,Max, you can keep this simple.
Another area where people loveto make this overly complex.
And there's some reason for it.
For me, I like to just use astraight-up interval process.
There's plenty of reasons to usevariable intervals or short
intense intervals, like 40, 20,30, 15s, things like that.
(29:17):
And I'll use them at times.
But when I'm in the phase whereI want this specific
development, I'm using a rangefrom three-minute intervals,
five, maybe six.
Like I'll do four dimes eightsand this and that, but I see
those as a little differentpurposeful.
My when I want speed, when Iwant this system development,
(29:37):
I'm in that range.
The way I target though, that isa little bit unique.
Not and maybe it's right.
I mean, I believe it's right.
Um, if you're a highly aerobicathlete with a lesser sprint,
let's just say, so you have athat your P max relationship to
your threshold is not that high.
So you have a lot of slow twitchmuscle, um, that athlete will
(30:01):
benefit from more shorterintervals.
So if I'm doing a time trial, soI might be targeting three to
three and a half, maybe fourminutes, and I'll do more of
those intervals.
The reason being that athletedoesn't have a lot of anaerobic
capacity, they burn off thatanaerobic capacity very early in
the interval because they don'thave a lot of fast switch
muscle.
They right are at some form ofhigh cardiovascular strain.
(30:26):
They're close or at or near VO2max very quickly, and they're
just going as hard as they can.
They're not producing a ton oflactate because they don't have
a lot of fast switch muscle.
It's the athlete that has a highsprint, high kind of one-minute
power in relationship to theirVO2 max.
So a more fast twitchpredominant athlete, those are
the ones that need to do longerintervals, which usually makes
(30:49):
them angry.
So that's always a strugglebecause they don't want to do
longer.
Because what happens for anathlete with more fast twitch
muscle, they have more anaerobiccapacity.
Their VO2 kinetics, theiruptake, how quickly they're
getting to at or near VO2 max,that takes longer because
they're masking that journeywith a good anaerobic
(31:10):
contribution, a lot of storedenergy, let's just say.
So they might need a minute, aminute 15 to come to a high, you
know, uh cardiovascular demandclose to VO2 max.
So you've got to burn that outof them by extending and making
the longer interval.
And the trade-off is they mighthave less overall intervals.
(31:32):
Both sets, though, I usuallyhave a pretty clear target of
total time at intensity.
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
And what would be like a total time at intensity
for, and I know this is you'regonna say it depends, but let's
just say a fairly mature, you'vebeen coaching them for three
years, uh, well-tuned engine.
What's uh a range of time atintensity for a VO2 workout?
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
So two levels to answer that.
Um I typically it depends on theathlete a little bit, but in the
range of 20 to 25 minutes, totaltime, well, because you said
mature athlete, right?
In a range of 20 to 25, I mightstart at 15 minutes, the first
one, like you know, depending onthe athlete you're doing, five
times three or something likethat.
(32:21):
Immature athlete, less.
So immature means less training.
So we said mature.
But what I really want to workbackwards, I want the athlete
to, if we can measure this inreal time, I want them to
experience during all theintervals.
If I looked at full time ofintensity, I want them to have
12 to 15 minutes at or neartheir VO2 max.
(32:42):
Like that's the total load Iwant to get out of the
intervals.
That's ideal.
There's a fair amount ofresearch that pretty much shows
that going over 15 minutes at ornear VO2 max, significantly
diminished returns, probably notworth the fatigue of investing
in.
Now, you get a highly efficientand developed athlete.
They might need more because,again, there's a lot of things
(33:02):
happening under the hood there.
But that's a really good target.
Now, if it takes you one minuteto get up to VO2 max in every
interval, that's why you mightneed 21 minutes to get 15,
right?
You might need 18 to get 12.
That's the variable, and thatcomes back to like the athlete's
individual needs.
(33:22):
But you can ballpark that prettywell in understanding by looking
at heart rate.
Like, what is their heart rateuptick in intervals and trying
to get a feeling that way?
And heart rate's very variable.
It's hard to coach by heartrate, but it gives us excellent
insight into the strain.
So that's what I'm targeting inmy intervals.
I want to start on the low sideof that, and progression is key.
(33:45):
Like ABP.
A B P.
Always be pushing in thesephases.
Like, don't settle.
Like once you light thisfast-acting fuse, let it burn.
Be careful.
And that's why you need tosleep, eat, recover, reduce your
overall volume.
I love keeping one long dayabsolutely uh crucial, but maybe
(34:07):
re reduce the days, other days'volumes a little more, a little
depends on how time crunch.
Uh like for a full trainingathlete, I'll reduce overall
volume in this stage 20%.
unknown (34:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
I was going to say 20, 25%.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Yeah, and it depends on what that volume is exactly.
Because you want them to alsoadapt to that.
You want them to burn that fuse.
You want them to keep pushingevery interval set.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So just to kind of reiterate afew points, I I would definitely
say without beingreductionistic, 15 minutes is a
great starting point for time inzone.
Scale up and down, depending onhow new to the sport uh or how
established you are, like in thesport, but at least 15 minutes
of time in zone, aim for that,and that's good.
(34:53):
So that's five by three, eightby two.
Uh name the the recipe ofintervals to to get there.
Um, but yes, I I would also sayduring this phase of training,
it's not the time to reach forthe stars.
I always tell that to myathletes like, don't be
reaching.
Like, you don't need to tack onan extra 15 minutes and get a
(35:13):
gold star from coach today.
You don't need to do an extrainterval because like we're I'm
already designing it to max youout, right?
And it some asterisk and caveatsthere, but you want to be
careful in this as opposed toyou know, zone three, you can be
kind of sloppy.
You can kind of add a little bitmore here, do a little bit more
because it's it's all aerobic,right?
(35:35):
Um, so I mean, anything to addon to that, Tim?
SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
Yeah.
Everybody who just heard whatAdam just said, go back, rewind,
and listen again.
It's the concept of what I callthis is it all VO2 max workouts
are advanced workouts.
Here's why.
They're not advanced because ohwait, my coach said do uh five
times four minutes with fourminutes rest.
That seems really simple.
They're advanced because there'san intensity discipline here
(36:01):
that it doesn't mean like you'retrying to hit a perfect target.
You're going hard.
But all of the things you'redoing around that workout, what
you're doing the week, you haveto be super cautious in that.
It is not the work you can do,it's the work you can adapt to
that's gonna drive the results.
And I see so many athletes getinto this phase and they do some
(36:23):
really good stuff.
And then nobody takes this withthe fence.
Then you do some really dumbstuff and you throw away a lot
of work.
Like that's what I mean byintensity discipline.
I don't just mean am I doing 305watts or 308 watts.
I'm talking about in this phasethat you need to be day in, day
out, disciplined, and don'tthrow it away because I'm
(36:44):
starting to feel great.
I'm not gonna tell my coach, butI'm gonna, after my two-hour
workout, I'm gonna jump in thelocal group ride and throw down
and crush some souls.
That's not the right way to doit.
Once in a while, it's fine.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
Yeah, you can you can shoot yourself in the foot
there.
Um and too, I mean, I I thinkfor all my athletes listening,
uh, as well as Tim's, um, youneed to understand that we do
actually stress about these worklike building these workouts and
taking the more individualizedapproach to this.
This is just isn't like acopy-paste sort of thing.
I'm thinking about how muchstrain is being caused to the
(37:24):
system.
And so I want you to do that andgo less off script in workouts
like this.
Um, and in additionally, I Ithink that for a self-coached
athlete, maybe that doesn't haveall the analytics or you don't
want to dive deep, go back towhat and say, well, should I do
five-minute intervals or ortwo-minute intervals?
Just go back to what Tim said isand ask yourself, which interval
(37:48):
length do you prefer?
Now do the opposite.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Great advice.
Uh I like this one.
That other one sucks.
Yes, do the one that sucks.
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Because self-coach athletes, and95% of the people out there will
not go hard enough on the harddays.
There's some masochistic peoplethat like will go full send and
do it properly, but like most ofus, myself included, very lazy,
and we will not go as hard as weshould in order to make a game.
SPEAKER_01 (38:23):
That's part of the adaptation.
Yeah.
Like honestly, one of the thingsthat newer cyclists go through
is you have to learn how to gohard.
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
Like you don't know what hard is, right?
There's an element of continuingto experience harder until you
understand hard.
The first time you lay on theside of the ground and throw up,
that's usually you figuring itout.
You know, that might have been alittle too hard.
That's when you go, you've gotto go over that edge to find the
balance.
SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
Right.
But I appreciate athletes likethat because now I'm like, okay,
good.
Now we just dial it back.
Yeah.
Just a little bit.
Then we got it.
And it's to that end, it's like,okay, you know, I've had
athletes like, when do I when doI know I need to raise my
ceiling?
Not only from a timingstandpoint, but sometimes you
just need to go freaking hard.
SPEAKER_01 (39:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
You need to blow it out because you don't know where
your edge is unless you go findit.
And then once you do, and thatgoes into like testing um
episodes that Tim and I havedone about how to know where
your zones are at and all thiskind of stuff.
Sometimes you just need to goreal freaking hard because if
you're doing events, if you'redoing group rides, if you're
doing races, those things startway harder than you want them
(39:30):
to.
And doing some zone five andabove work is gonna help you
prepare for when you get punchedin the face.
Because you can have thegreatest plan in the world, but
you get punched and everythingchanges.
SPEAKER_01 (39:42):
Exactly the limitation from episode one of
too much zone two.
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Yeah.
Yep.
That's right.
So with that said, Tim, we'regonna wrap this one here a
little bit shorter than theothers.
Um, but uh, you know, beforeBefore we go, I do want to ask.
You're wearing a cool shirt,says uh Basecamp.
Uh, can you tell us a little bitmore about what Basecamp is,
(40:08):
your involvement with it, and ifour listeners uh want to um
explore it more, where where canthey do that?
SPEAKER_01 (40:15):
Oh, well, thanks.
Um, I appreciate you liking myshirt.
No, uh, well, Basecamp EnduranceCoaching, we are a classic
coaching company, as everybodyknows.
We have over 30 coaches.
We have strength leaders,nutritionists, PhD,
nutritionists on staff.
As a matter of fact, we we'revery science-heavy.
We have seven PhDs in the team.
(40:37):
Um we do classic one-on-onecoaching, but what we're really
known for kind of is ourcommunity approach.
Uh, we run unique winter-basedprograms that are really based
on strength, training,nutrition, mental performance,
all working together in anathlete.
The community is a learningcommunity.
So you train together, learntogether with the focus of just
(41:01):
helping people figure all thisstuff out.
And how can I be a betterathlete?
How can I optimize my training?
How do I optimize my nutritionand strength work?
Um, we also do all the otherclassic coaching company things.
We do some camps and tours andstuff like that.
Uh, you can always check us outat joinbasecamp.com.
Uh, see the different thingsthat we do, uh, throw in a
(41:24):
question, and maybe we can helpyou, you know, or or not.
Always glad to uh chat.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Yeah, and uh, you know, I follow Tim on uh
Instagram, and even though he'snot as active as a junior
cyclist there, but he travels tosome pretty cool places.
So um if if anyone wants to getmore of Tim Cusick, um I go to
Instagram, but also go toBasecamp.
Check out what they're doingthere because it is really
unique.
(41:50):
Uh I'm a big fan of what uh Timand the whole team does over
there.
So I think it's a it's a prettycool resource and uh just do a a
little plug for that um becauseit is different, um, and it's a
different way of of uh gettingpeople fit, which I'm all about.
SPEAKER_01 (42:06):
Thanks for that.
SPEAKER_00 (42:09):
All right, Tim.
Well, um we're gonna end thisVO2 uh phase of episoding right
now, and then we've got one moreto go.
So for all of our listeners whoare rocking and rolling with
this little mini-series of uhtime course of adaptation, be
sure to come back next week forthe fourth and final episode
where uh Tim and I will talkabout anaerobic capacity and
(42:32):
what to expect in youradaptation journey there.
Thanks for joining us on theTime Crunch Cyclist Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even more actionabletraining advice, head over to
trainwright.com backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
Each week you'll get in depthtraining content that goes
(42:56):
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast that'll help you take
your training to the next level.
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
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