October 23, 2024 • 37 mins
OVERVIEW: Sports Dietitian Kristen Arnold MS, RDN, CSSD is back to discuss exactly how sodium bicarbonate can improve cycling performance, how much to consume, when to take it, and what workouts or races it works best for. Coach Adam Pulford and Kristen also discuss new research showing that using sodium bicarbonate during an 8-week training program improves training adaptations.
Key topics in this episode:
- What sodium bicarbonate does in the body
- What's the problem with sodium bicarbonate?
- What athlete types benefit from sodium bicarbonate?
- Is sodium bicarbonate safe?
- How much sodium bicarbonate should you take?
- Multi-day loading with sodium bicarbonate
- Sodium bicarbonate in long-term training plan
Guest
Kristen Arnold MS, RDN, CSSD is a registered dietitian (RDN), retired professional cyclist and Women's Development Road Director for USA Cycling. She is a board-certified specialist in sports dietetics (CSSD) and is a Level 1 USA Cycling coach. Her private practice nutrition counseling business focuses on sports nutrition for women athletes.
Links
- Kristin's Website
- Kristin's Instagram
References:
- 2020 Study on Individualization of Sodium Bicarb Ingestion:
- Meta Analysis:
- Asker Jeukedrup Summary: Sodium bicarbonate, cheap and effective?
- Why Top Olympic Athletes Use Baking Soda to Boost Performance
- The effect of sodium bicarbonate mini-tablets ingested in a carbohydrate hydrogel system on 40 km cycling time trial performance and metabolism in trained male cyclists - PubMed
- Knowledge is Watt article
Host
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for more nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance even if
you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches whomake up the team at CTS.
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
Welcome back Time Crunch fans.
I'm Coach Adam Pulford, yourhost, as always.
(00:53):
Sodium bicarbonate it's thatstuff that you use to make
cookies rise a little bit, oryou keep your fridge smelling
nice and fresh, or, if you'relike me, you probably remember
using it, with a little bit ofwhite vinegar or any acid for
that matter to create a volcanoeruption in chemistry class back
in grade school or maybe lastweek, something like that.
(01:14):
In cycling, we've been using itto try to go faster and beat
your competition lately, and Iactually did a podcast about
this back in June of 2023.
But since then, we've had theOlympic Games, we've had a few
editions of the Tour de France,tour de France, thumbs Abag,
zwift and the 2024 WorldChampionships in Zurich, where
(01:36):
everybody saw Michael Woodsfamously scarf down a bowl of
opaque goop at the start of therace.
So there's been quite a bit ofbuzz about sodium bicarbonate
yet again.
Velo and Outside Magazine haveboth written articles about it,
and after these majorcompetitions, it's sparking even
more curiosity about thisalkaline sport performance
(01:59):
enhancing powder.
So what's new with bicarb andwhy should you care about it as
an athlete yourself?
To help explain this, I'vebrought back in Kristen Arnold,
a trusted dietitian in thisspace, who you've heard on the
podcast before.
So, kristen, welcome back tothe show.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thanks so much.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah Well, when I've been out at the races or I hit
the group rides, talk to myathletes or read questions that
are being submitted to the pod,I've been hearing a lot about
sodium bicarbonate.
It's like should I take it?
What's the best way to use it?
Is it good for short intensityor long intensity?
And how can I take it on thebike?
So we'll go over all that andmore today, but in particular,
we'll explore the question of isit for short intensity or long
(02:41):
intensity, Because that's socurious.
I mean, I feel like it's kindof shifting in the way that
athletes are using it.
Maybe people like you arerecommending it.
So before we get going here,Kristen, remind us what sodium
bicarbonate actually does in ourbody that is beneficial in the
way of intense exercise or anyexercise.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Anytime we're talking about a supplement, we do want
to understand the mechanism ofaction right.
We don't want to just throwthings at the wall.
I mean, maybe we do, but somescience, you go backwards, you
know it works and then youfigure out why.
Sometimes you're like what arewe trying to produce, what are
we trying to change?
And then we figure out how todo that.
So sodium bicarbonatespecifically helps to increase
(03:24):
the alkalinity or make yourblood more basic.
So it creates an extracellularenvironment in which, when we're
exercising, a lot of thefatigue we experience is because
we're building up hydrogen ions, and so the sodium bicarb, by
increasing alkalinity, we canclear out more of those hydrogen
(03:48):
ions and therefore delayfatigue.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, I think the best way to wrap our brains
around this is like a lot ofthings happen in the body to
cause fatigue.
Acidosis is a big one that weunderstand, understand, and
there's other things going on,but that acidity in that
environment is really a bigfactor.
So anything that can helpneutralize that, including just
training itself, right Cause asyou do more training you get
(04:15):
better at the training Um,that's one way to do it.
Or you take something likesodium bicarbonate that can also
help um in the cellular ways,and in a previous podcast I
mentioned that before.
That is episode number 148entitled Biocarb Curious with
CTS coach Jason Koop.
Check that out because we do apretty good job of going deep
(04:36):
into, like, what is going onwith that.
But this is nothing new underthe sun, right, kristen?
I mean?
I mean, we've been seeing thisin exercise physiology and in in
athletes for how long?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Uh, at least 40 years .
There's definitely studiesdating back to the eighties, and
that's when there were studies.
Potentially people wereexperimenting with it before
then.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, so also remind us.
It's like, why was it so hotthen?
And maybe like went away, Likewhat's the problem with sodium
bicarbonate?
If it's still great?
Why don't we just like jackourselves on it every time we go
out and pedal our bike?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, I was thinking about that too as a dietician a
lot of the reason that westopped recommending it, even
though it is one of the fewsupplements that's been shown to
be effective.
There's only four supplementsthat are recommended by the
International Olympic Committeeand sodium bicarb is recognized
as one of those.
But we get a lot of potentiallyadverse side effects from
(05:36):
taking it, the main one beinggut issues, things like diarrhea
, nausea.
But what's interesting to me is, you know, when I was doing
research for this podcast.
Yes, a lot of the studiesshowed they had to exclude
certain participants becausethey had GI issues, or maybe
they included them, but therewas also a pretty big percentage
(05:57):
of people that didn't have anysymptoms.
So I think in the medicalcommunity and the sports
community, we've written it offbecause for most, for a athletes
, the side effects are not worthit, but at the same time, there
could be a lot of athletes outthere that it's perfectly fine
for.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, I think historically it's gotten a bad
rap for those potential issuesand I think too, what made me do
the first podcast about it wassome new products on the market,
trying to go around and kind ofavoiding the GI issue Anything
from the PR lotion from AmpHuman to the kind of latest and
greatest Morton bicarb littlemixture stuff that people
(06:38):
consume to make it easier oreither bypass the gut entirely
or make it easier on the stomachto handle some of this.
Additionally, I've got athletesboth kind of like pro and
amateur taking different sort ofcapsules and things like that.
So there's many different waysto go about getting the bicarb
into your body.
We'll get to that in a second,but it's pretty solid in
(07:00):
research to say that it improvesanything from a anaerobic
capacity like a long sprint, tosay that it it improves anything
from a um anaerobic capacitylike a long sprint 20, 30
seconds, something like that,all the way out to 12 minutes.
So is it to you, kristen, whenyou've went through a bunch of
the research, uh, for thispodcast itself or some of the
stuff in the past, are youseeing anything that says
(07:22):
definitely it's like longer than12 minutes?
Or what are you seeing withyour athletes that are using it.
What do you recommend and whereare we going with this bicarb
thing for endurance?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, in the research it is.
When you look at themeta-analyses, you look at the
studies that have been testingthis, there's definitely more
evidence to support that shorterduration, like 30 seconds to 12
minutes.
But there is some newer studiescoming out Granted, they're
small sample sizes and there'snot as many of them showing that
(07:54):
there could be a performancebenefit for activities up to an
hour or an hour and a half,which is still not super long,
but something that I've beenexperimenting with some of the
athletes that I work with thatuse this is.
So maybe it only helps for upto 12 minutes, but let's take a
road race, for example, or acriterium, a race that's like 60
(08:18):
, 90, 120 minutes.
If the fourth attack goes offand that's the move that sticks
because everyone's fatigued, butyou made it in there and that
happened in the first 10, 20minutes of the race, that's
going to put you in a reallygood spot for success.
So, do you need it to last anhour?
(08:38):
Not necessarily, depending onthe application and the sport
that you're in.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, that's it for sure.
It's like, just because youknow the effort is 12 minutes or
less, it's like that couldhappen at any given moment, and
you're you can probably help meon this too.
But once I do ingest it, thebenefit of that sodium
bicarbonate is floating aroundyour body.
For what?
Two, three hours long.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yep, something like that Mike Woods would say.
Four is what he said in hisarticle.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Exactly so I mean, and so it'll last over time.
So, depending on when, when themove goes, like you said, when
you actually need to make aneffort, it'll be there in the
body to handle it.
I'd say anecdotally, both withmyself and my athletes, it's
also the repeated efforts.
So if I need to do a 30-secondeffort or a 60-second effort or
a 10-minute breakaway orsomething like that, and then go
(09:30):
again and again, it seems likethere's a durability component
to it because of that aciditythat increases with repeated
efforts.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely yeah, and some of the
studies that I looked at, Imean we know that a certain
amount will produce, it'll raise, the pH of your blood to a
certain level as you accumulatethose hydrogen ions with the
exercise.
So, like the matches you'reburning or the efforts you're
doing, you're slowly making itmore acidic, but you still are
(10:04):
starting from that period oftime where your blood is more
alkaline.
So if you're in a race andthere's only two matches that
you have to burn and they're notall out, you know your blood is
still going to stay morealkaline than it was before.
If you do three or four or fiveattacks now, that's going to
lower the pH.
(10:25):
So I think there's an elementto how long it's in your system
period.
So that two, three, maybe fourhours, maybe not, and then also
the demands of the race or theactivity that you're doing.
So like are you doing 25sprints?
It's probably going to run outpretty quickly.
Are you doing a few?
You might have a longer periodof time where your blood is
(10:46):
staying at that more basic level.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah.
So before we get into any,here's how to use this protocols
or how much to actually ingest.
What sort of athlete are yourecommending sodium bicarbonate
to?
Is it anybody that wants tocompete within one to four hours
?
Is it?
Is it, um, steady athletes,always sprinty athletes, and
(11:12):
speak to maybe like what sort ofathlete with what sort of
habits should be looking at?
Uh, somebody supplementing withsodium bicarb?
Because if I'm somebody who iskind of the normal master's
racer maybe 40 plus, and I wantthat extra edge I'm only
training 10 hours a week or less.
(11:32):
I'm going to, I want that edgeand it's a safe, recommended by
all the authorities.
Therefore, yeah, I'm doing it.
Man, what would you say to thatkind of weekend warrior, time
crunched athlete who wants theextra edge?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
every podcast we talked about this.
So we want to make sure thatthe athlete is meeting their
body's energy needs andmacronutrient needs, is getting
them from primarily whole foodsand overall optimizing the
quality of their eating patterns.
And then we go to performancespecific nutrition strategies,
making sure that they are eatingthe optimal amounts and types
of foods before, during andafter training.
(12:25):
And then we get into supplementprotocols.
So, seeing as there's nevergoing to be an application of
like a deficiency, to applysodium bicarb, this is purely
for as an ergogenic aid,something that will improve
performance.
So, athletes that I'verecommended this to, definitely
(12:46):
anyone that's doing track racingfor the most part, like the
athletes that I have cycliststhat are track racers Um, we
always want to test it out.
First.
It's not worked with themajority of the athletes that
I've worked with but, um,potentially we needed to try
other forms.
So track cycling, for sure, andthen other types of races,
(13:09):
anything that has demand ofshort hard efforts in the first
hour.
So not necessarily a road racethat is flat for the first three
hours and there might be a hillsection at the end first three
hours and there might be a hillsection at the end, but
something like a criterium wherethey're doing um multiple bouts
of fatigue with the sprintingout of corners and maybe they
(13:30):
are um one of the teammates thatis on the offense in the first
half of the race.
So those types of efforts andalso I've also recommended it to
things like cyclocross so short, shorter duration, um demands
of high intensity.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yep, yeah, and with that cross country mountain
biking, um, short track mountainbiking, crits, road races, yeah
, and I can't I really can'temphasize this enough and I'm
glad you brought it up, kristenis like all these supplemental
things If it's caffeine, sodium,bicarb, beetroot, betalains,
whatever, if you get everythingelse wrong, the foundational
(14:09):
aspects wrong, this stuff ain'tgoing to work for you.
If you're running on a glycogenmidway through or if you just
don't have enough energy onboard, all the caffeine in the
world is just going to stressyou out, it's going to actually
give you more cognitive fatigue.
And if you ain't sleeping or ifyou're not actually doing your
training program, forget it.
(14:30):
Like all this is like on apyramid of importance, it's it's
at the very top sleeping,training, eating, hydrating,
that's all the bottom.
Okay, so, as you're buildingyour pyramid of performance or
whatever analogy you want to usethis, but I get so many
questions about the tippytippies top stuff, not so much
(14:53):
about the base or the middle orsomething like that.
So so, because everyone, ouraudience, asks these questions,
we're answering it today, butwe're also going to like bring
that perspective of why and whenand how to do this and if you,
I would say qualify as anathlete to do that.
So if you do have the goodsleeping habits, the good
training habits we've optimizedbody composition, we've
(15:19):
optimized fueling strategies andwe're now into the realm of
race strategies and how toincrease performance, yeah, then
you qualify for some sodiumbicarb, some beetroot, some
caffeine, and away we go.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yep.
And one other thing I would addto that is there are safety
concerns.
It is generally considered asafe supplement, but if you have
any kind of blood pressureissues, if you're on blood
pressure medication, and alsosomething to consider is if you
are at a predisposition forkidney stones.
(15:49):
A lot of masters, male athletes, are already predisposed and
there is some evidence tosuggest I mean, it's just a lot
of stress on your kidneysputting this much sodium through
filtering it.
So if you have had them oryou're prone to them, definitely
this is something I would notrecommend.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, so that's really good that you brought
that up.
I was going to get there whenwe talked about some of the
specific products.
But straight into the point, avery popular product, the Morton
19 or 22 for reference.
The 22'm experienced with it.
That's the recommendation thatthey give.
If you do the math on it, thatis roughly 6,000 milligrams of
(16:38):
sodium that you're pumpingthrough the system and so,
anecdotally, like it worksreally well for me.
But I feel like I can feel thepressure to the system Like I
can feel it in my neck.
I can feel like I can feel whenI'm going and that's good
because from a performancestandpoint, because the blood is
pushing to all the workingmuscles, and if you're going to
go hard, that is positive.
(16:59):
But if your system can't handleit for the reasons that Kristen
just described yourhypertension and some of these
other issues that's not a goodthing.
Okay, so you got to stay awayfrom it.
Meanwhile, if you do consume it, like you got to, you got to
pound water Like you really haveto.
(17:21):
So we'll probably get there.
But let's talk about why it's somuch sodium that you're putting
through the system, and thatmeans getting into guidelines,
because, askers, you can root ahero of mine.
A lot of his research is citedin this in the way of the
protocol and how much to consume.
So, um, Kristen, how much inlike a gram per kilogram, should
do you recommend athletes take?
(17:41):
When should we do this kind ofwalk us through how to actually
consume this stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, so um, asker Jukendrup is also I'm also a big
fan.
He produces a lot of greatresearch and is really good at
um boiling it down intopractical information.
So, um, both he and alsothere's a position stand that
came out from the internationalsociety of sports nutrition uh,
(18:08):
in 2021.
That's a really great referenceof um.
It has a few hundred studies,including meta-analyses that it
took research for, and then itprovides recommendations.
So both Dr Jukendrup and thisposition statement recommend 0.3
grams of sodium bicarbonate perkilogram body weight is shown
(18:31):
to be the amount that iseffective and also will be less
likely to produce side effects.
So we do know that the more weconsume, the more the better
environment we have for likeproducing that alkalinity, the
(18:52):
performance benefit, but alsothe more likely athletes are to
get side effects.
So if you're trying to do 0.4or 0.5, you could try it and see
what happens, and any less than0.3, potentially 0.2 has been
shown to be helpful, but moststudies show that you need at
least 0.3.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, and so for everybody listening, it's like
the reason we cite research, thereason why we have research is
and then we give it to you invery simple terms is so that you
can start in with what theresearch says and then dial it
in accordingly to yourself.
So sure, always experiment, butjust know that if you're
getting up into the 0.5, it's awarning zone.
But just know that if you'regetting up into the 0.5, it's a
(19:33):
warning zone.
If 0.3, which is like right inthe middle not working for you,
back it down and know that therehas been findings to say that a
little lower still can improve.
But don't just go like jumpingin the box of sodium into a
glass of water and going for it.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Mm, hmm, yeah, and one other point.
So the position statement alsotalked about how if you take 0.4
or 0.5 grams per kilogram bodyweight per day up to three days
before, it can help yourperformance the next day.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So there's, you know potentially you could take more
in over a period of time limitthose GI symptoms for your
actual event, and that wouldalso be helpful.
Yeah, that's a good pointbecause in those usage
guidelines so what we've beentalking about a little bit more
exclusively so far on thepodcast is the single dose,
where we're taking it beforecompetition.
What you just described, that'sthe multi-dose, so it's
essentially like loading yoursystem right before going into
the competition.
And, yeah, the reason you dothat is to minimize GI issue on
(20:37):
race day.
So with single dose, if weswing back to that, there's a
like a window of time to takethis before competition.
That's recommended, right, andwhat is that?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yep, um.
So 180 minutes, which is two,three hours before uh, three
hours before has been shown tobe like the max amount of time
before you will start to um beout of that window, but also the
most time that you have tolimit the chance of GI symptoms.
(21:10):
So usually a hundred and likean two to three hours before is
recommended.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yep, yeah, and I know with the Morton stuff I think
they were saying like 90 minutesbefore, like you, even like
kind of start.
So they they hedge that theirsystem to neutral or to have
limit any GI issue a little.
They say 90 minutes.
I don't know Like I've I've hada couple athletes that it's
like oh, I still have a littlegurgly, so extend that out to
(21:37):
two hours and then kind of a nonissue.
So I think to go with therecommendation always, adjust
accordingly and all in as you gohere too, and we'll we'll link
to a lot of this research, bothfrom Dr Jukenroob and the
position statements that Kristenis talking about.
We'll link to those that youcan go back and start in on that
(22:00):
for yourself if you are curiousabout this, and that'll include
both the single dose and themulti-dose recommendations.
What's kind of fun here isthere's the competition or the
day of that we're talking about,so for performance.
But there's also recently apretty cool study coming up from
Gabriella Gallo, who has beenon the podcast before and he's
(22:22):
in.
What he did was he looked atsome research that had training
implications to it.
So it's not only the raceitself, but it was an eight week
training program that used acontrol group that didn't take
sodium bicarbonate and then hada training group that did take
sodium bicarbonate.
They did the same training andwhat did they find?
Kristen?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
They found.
Actually I should have writtenthis down beforehand, but there
were performance benefits.
So they did actually havehigher training adaptations in
the group that did use um,sodium bicarb, throughout their
training, not just for oneworkout or one um trainings or,
yeah, or one race.
So uh, adam, you might need tohelp me out here.
(23:04):
I believe it was increased theVO two max and then there were
two other metrics.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, so it was.
So they they tested before andafter and what they, and they
dosed them.
I didn't write down the actualdosing but it followed the
general recommendation of 0.2 to0.3.
And they dosed them for thehigh-intensity workouts
themselves.
They didn't dose them for theendurance and what they saw was
the bicarb group had an increasein VO2 max post eight-week
(23:30):
training program power at LT2,which was basically FTP, and an
increased time to task failure,which means essentially time to
exhaustion.
There are TTE would be themetric that I talk about on the
podcast all the time relatedback to WKO five.
So essentially max power,production power, lt two and
(23:51):
when you take a certain amountof work and just go until you
can't, that also improved.
So what's interesting about thisis if you say, well, okay, what
does that?
What does it mean?
How'd they get there?
If the sodium bicarbonateallows you to do more training
in the session itself and youkeep on doing more training
(24:13):
sessions like that, you'll getmore training effect and
therefore you increase yourperformance.
So it's not shocking to me thatthe mechanism neutralizes
acidity with intensity.
You do that a lot of times fortraining sessions and then you
get even more benefit from thetraining sessions themselves.
It's super curious and there's afew asterisks here because it's
(24:33):
eight weeks, okay, but thenalso the group was a
recreational active cyclist.
So it's I would say that it is.
It fits a lot of like timecrunched athletes, maybe our
athletes that are kind of new tothe sport, maybe you want to
have good habits and they wantto improve some layers of this.
It's not elite athletes, it'snot looking at people who have
(24:55):
been doing this for 20 years,although I would argue that
there's probably going to besome benefit there.
But just and we'll cite thisresearch, but it's worth looking
at because his write-ups arelike five minutes long, but all
the data will be there.
But I think that's a prettystrong, pretty strong research.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, so, um, I mean a couple of the inferences there
, like things we can extrapolateon, like, potentially, the this
population, like these athletes, have more room for improvement
in their top end in thosemetrics that you mentioned, like
the time to exhaustion.
So, anytime that we can um getthose athletes to do more work
in those sessions, yes, it'sgoing to produce those training
adaptations.
So, yeah, super interestingstudy, definitely promising.
(25:38):
And and um, like you mentioned,adam, also, this is mostly
applicable for certain types ofworkouts, right, like we don't
necessarily recommend doing thisfor um lower intensity training
, but any kind of high intensityinterval training would make
sense.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Absolutely, and I and I think that's really important
to address because unlessyou're doing like a multi-dose
sort of strategy with this, youshouldn't be taken by carb for
your endurance ride, your threehour endurance ride or even like
a five hour ride that doesn'thave a ton of intensity to it.
It doesn't look like you'll getmuch benefit there.
It's a little bit of anasterisk, is like okay, well,
(26:18):
adam, you want to talk about theendurance component of
performance and all this kind ofstuff?
And on the previous podcast Italked to Coop about some ultra
runners consuming sodiumbicarbonate and what we
discussed was like yeah, there'sdefinitely not a ton of
research to say in cause, ultrarunners, you're just going slow
all the time.
What Coop said, if I callcorrectly from my notes, is that
(26:41):
you just get.
You get so depleted that therecould be some for people who
they say anecdotally like it isbenefiting them.
They get so depleted oneverything, including sodium.
It's just a nice high dose ofsodium and as long as they stay
hydrated there could be somebenefit there.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But the bicarbonate, the buffering of the muscle
acidity, is probably not, uh,contributing there for ultra
endurance folk yeah, and on topof that, um, with the sodium
depletion also, it's just goingto increase their plasma volume
so they'll be be able to getmore oxygen to the muscles they
need.
And also, I think athletes likeKillian, like they're really
(27:21):
experienced, they may, they'llbe able to pace really well.
But I wonder if some of wemight have some rec athletes out
there that if you're overpacing, yeah, maybe it will help
because you're going to burnthrough a lot of those factors
in the first hour and it couldhelp to make you more successful
later in the race.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah, and to that point, high dose of volume,
increased plasma volume.
We've talked about that on acouple other episodes.
What's interesting there and Ithought back to my interview
with Dr McCubbin where the saltintake or the sodium intake over
time, that's actually not thedriver of performance.
(28:03):
What's occurring there is itmakes you thirsty and you drink
more and over time, if you canconsume more fluid and then you
have the kind of the properchemistry within the cell going
on which sodium helps regulatethat a little bit, that could be
an extra benefit or an extralayer of some of this like ultra
endurance stuff.
So I think I'm not saying takebicarb if you're doing um, like
(28:25):
the unbound gravel or somethinglike that, I don't think that
you need to put this in your uh,your, your aid station or
anything like that.
I think where it shines themost is intensity, intermittent
intensity and endurancecomponents, where it is like
road racing for four hoursbecause it's in your system for
long periods of time.
If you are going just to finishthe gravel race and there's not
(28:48):
a ton of performancenecessarily in the goal, I don't
think that you need to jackyourself on sodium bicarbonate.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yep, that's what we think so far, for sure pro tour
(29:21):
on down.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
there's a lot of use of sodium bicarbonate, more so
than like five to 10 years ago,and I think that is curious.
I think that because there isum potential benefit with not a
ton of cost like I've becomemore liberal in my
recommendation of sodiumbicarbonate to athletes.
That's kind of what I'm tryingto say.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, another um interesting anecdotal story I
have about an athlete Irecommended it to is um, she is
doing stage races and a lot ofthe stage race she was doing
include prologues, so reallyshort races, um, but also ones
that are in that anywhere fromlike 10 to 30 minutes, um, and
(29:59):
she reported that she didn'tknow where her limit was when
she was taking it because now,like her body sensations were so
much different than she wasused to training, like you know,
when you're doing a time trial,a lot of athletes these days
they don't even even stillthey're not necessarily relying
on their power meter, they'rerelying on these body sensations
(30:22):
to tell them how hard they needto go when depending on the
course features.
But she said that it kind ofmessed up her pacing plan
because she couldn't feel thosesensations and it was a lot
different than she was used to.
So, even if there was aperformance benefit, definitely
need to practice with it becauseit does feel different for sure
.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it feels super differentand couldn't agree more.
And that goes to the generalrecommendation of anytime that
you're going to use something ina race, work backward and try
it in training beforehand so youget those sensations before you
kind of know where the upperend is.
I was talking with Kristen acouple of weeks ago after one of
our podcasts and I've gotstrong data on myself that every
time I buy a car I've got a oneto two and a half percent
(31:05):
increase in power production,especially at 20 minutes and
five minutes and so, and whenI'm, when I'm going there, I do
feel like I have extra capacity.
It's not going to work foreverybody, but those sensations
are important and you canoverpace and maybe over deliver
in those situations.
So it's a curious littleproduct that we are talking
(31:26):
about here.
But to wrap this up and I thinklike a little bit in closing
here, Kristen, you've been inthe sport for a long time.
You're a dietitian, you're acoach, you work with elite
athletes, you work with weekendwarriors.
Do you see sodium bicarbonatecoming back into the limelight
and becoming like the nextcaffeine or even as common as
(31:48):
sport drink itself?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
My instincts are actually telling me no.
I think this will always besomewhat novel.
I think there are risks, like alot of the other supplements
and things that are commonplace,are there's really no downside?
And they might not.
They might even have otherhealth benefits.
Right, like beetroot juice is agood example, too, to add to
that list.
Beetroot juice has a ton ofantioxidants and there's other
(32:14):
benefits beyond the performanceindications.
The performance indications, um, ketones as well, like it was
first used in clinical practiceand then this and then sports
found out about.
They're like oh, this isinteresting.
So, um, I my instincts aretelling me it's not necessarily
going to be commonplace, butdefinitely at the high level it
(32:35):
might be commonplace.
So at the world tour levelmaybe, yes.
At the recreational level,probably not.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, I would agree with that, for the mere fact
that the performance is the maindriver of this right and I
think, with a lot of, um,amateur athletes, I'm just going
to say is like there's a lot ofother stuff on the table that
we can work on and some lowhanging fruit to pick before we
pick sodium bicarbonate.
So, um, sleep habits, nutrition, hydration habits, training
(33:06):
habits and tactical habits, Ifit's comes down to like racing,
if you just become a better bikeracer itself way better than a
one or 2% sodium bicarbonateboost, Right.
So there, there's a lot ofother stuff to work on.
However, for the marginal gainaspect of it, I do think that
this will be um, I mean, it kindof already is right.
(33:28):
It's the marginal, it's one ofthe marginal gain aspects that
we can talk about.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yep, and I mean even on that note.
We know caffeine works, atleast in the literature, and,
like I said, sodium bicarb weknow it works Like something
like ketones is a little bitmore subjective, depending on
what research you're looking at.
So it's not whether it works ornot, it's like what other
factors are holding us back fromdoing it.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yep, yep, exactly so kind of in summary.
I mean sodium bicarbonate,definitely here to stay.
It's a marginal gains thing.
I've become more liberal in myrecommendation for both short
and long-term.
But even in that long-termendurance I would say it's best
used when you have intermittentintensity or some sort of
performance aspect to it.
Kristen gave yourecommendations on gram per
(34:16):
kilogram to take it and take itkind of a far way out.
I think you said 90 minutes upto three hours, right.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, and if you're going to, if you're going to
implement this into a race, makesure you do it a couple of
times in training and make sureit works for you so that you
don't have a bike harm blowoutat some point I know.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I was just going to say, when you are testing it out
, definitely have a bathroomnearby, like maybe you do it at
a training race in a park orsomething and you know the and
make sure that the uh, the doorsare not locked, depending on
what time of year you're there.
It could happen.
You don't want to use a bush,you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
This is.
This is all true, but also verygood, uh, recommendations.
So, um, yeah, besides that, isthere anything else that you
want to add to it, Kristen?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
I think we covered it pretty well.
Yeah, marginal gains.
I always love talking aboutthese topics.
They're always fun, even ifit's just fun to listen and
think about what could happenwith these things.
Um, it's.
It's good to do.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, Agreed for sure , and I think too, as the
research slowly evolves and alsoathletes kind of using it in
different ways, um, we, we gotto think of why it's it's
helping them, you know,anecdotally, and then try to, um
, find it in the data and then,you know, bring it down to, uh,
the average person that'scurious about it.
So that's our aim on the on thepodcast today and and Kristen,
(35:42):
uh, kind of like always, if, if,people liked what they heard
from you here, uh, how do theyget in touch with you?
Do you do consults?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah, uh, my website is sports nutrition for womencom
.
I don't only work with womenathletes, but, um, I primarily
work with women athletes and,like we're taking clients right
now, really anytime, I have twoother practitioners that work
for me as well, and so one ofthe things we do integrate is
supplement protocols.
So if this is something you'reinterested in, we will work on
(36:13):
that foundational andperformance centric nutrition
strategies, but we also do havesupplement recommendations and
protocols for that.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Perfect.
Well, I will link to yourwebsite and your socials in the
landing page, and that's whereyou can also find some of the
meta-analysis, some of the stufffrom Dr Zuckernup as well as Dr
Gabriel Ligello with Knowledgeis what All that stuff will be
on the landing page.
So head on over totrainrightcom backslash podcast,
and it's also nested in theApple podcast, the Google, the
(36:43):
Spotify just laid out there.
So make sure to scroll down ifyou want to get a little bit
more information and connectwith Kristen.
Thank you so much again,Kristen, for joining us.
I'm sure you'll be back on thepodcast soon, but until then, uh
, yeah, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Thanks again.
Can't wait for the next one.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Thanks for joining us on the Time Crunch Cyclist
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(37:23):
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance even if
you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
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In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
Welcome back Time Crunch fans.
I'm Coach Adam Pulford, yourhost, as always.
(00:53):
Sodium bicarbonate it's thatstuff that you use to make
cookies rise a little bit, oryou keep your fridge smelling
nice and fresh, or, if you'relike me, you probably remember
using it, with a little bit ofwhite vinegar or any acid for
that matter to create a volcanoeruption in chemistry class back
in grade school or maybe lastweek, something like that.
(01:14):
In cycling, we've been using itto try to go faster and beat
your competition lately, and Iactually did a podcast about
this back in June of 2023.
But since then, we've had theOlympic Games, we've had a few
editions of the Tour de France,tour de France, thumbs Abag,
zwift and the 2024 WorldChampionships in Zurich, where
(01:36):
everybody saw Michael Woodsfamously scarf down a bowl of
opaque goop at the start of therace.
So there's been quite a bit ofbuzz about sodium bicarbonate
yet again.
Velo and Outside Magazine haveboth written articles about it,
and after these majorcompetitions, it's sparking even
more curiosity about thisalkaline sport performance
(01:59):
enhancing powder.
So what's new with bicarb andwhy should you care about it as
an athlete yourself?
To help explain this, I'vebrought back in Kristen Arnold,
a trusted dietitian in thisspace, who you've heard on the
podcast before.
So, kristen, welcome back tothe show.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thanks so much.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah Well, when I've been out at the races or I hit
the group rides, talk to myathletes or read questions that
are being submitted to the pod,I've been hearing a lot about
sodium bicarbonate.
It's like should I take it?
What's the best way to use it?
Is it good for short intensityor long intensity?
And how can I take it on thebike?
So we'll go over all that andmore today, but in particular,
we'll explore the question of isit for short intensity or long
(02:41):
intensity, Because that's socurious.
I mean, I feel like it's kindof shifting in the way that
athletes are using it.
Maybe people like you arerecommending it.
So before we get going here,Kristen, remind us what sodium
bicarbonate actually does in ourbody that is beneficial in the
way of intense exercise or anyexercise.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Anytime we're talking about a supplement, we do want
to understand the mechanism ofaction right.
We don't want to just throwthings at the wall.
I mean, maybe we do, but somescience, you go backwards, you
know it works and then youfigure out why.
Sometimes you're like what arewe trying to produce, what are
we trying to change?
And then we figure out how todo that.
So sodium bicarbonatespecifically helps to increase
(03:24):
the alkalinity or make yourblood more basic.
So it creates an extracellularenvironment in which, when we're
exercising, a lot of thefatigue we experience is because
we're building up hydrogen ions, and so the sodium bicarb, by
increasing alkalinity, we canclear out more of those hydrogen
(03:48):
ions and therefore delayfatigue.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, I think the best way to wrap our brains
around this is like a lot ofthings happen in the body to
cause fatigue.
Acidosis is a big one that weunderstand, understand, and
there's other things going on,but that acidity in that
environment is really a bigfactor.
So anything that can helpneutralize that, including just
training itself, right Cause asyou do more training you get
(04:15):
better at the training Um,that's one way to do it.
Or you take something likesodium bicarbonate that can also
help um in the cellular ways,and in a previous podcast I
mentioned that before.
That is episode number 148entitled Biocarb Curious with
CTS coach Jason Koop.
Check that out because we do apretty good job of going deep
(04:36):
into, like, what is going onwith that.
But this is nothing new underthe sun, right, kristen?
I mean?
I mean, we've been seeing thisin exercise physiology and in in
athletes for how long?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Uh, at least 40 years .
There's definitely studiesdating back to the eighties, and
that's when there were studies.
Potentially people wereexperimenting with it before
then.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, so also remind us.
It's like, why was it so hotthen?
And maybe like went away, Likewhat's the problem with sodium
bicarbonate?
If it's still great?
Why don't we just like jackourselves on it every time we go
out and pedal our bike?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, I was thinking about that too as a dietician a
lot of the reason that westopped recommending it, even
though it is one of the fewsupplements that's been shown to
be effective.
There's only four supplementsthat are recommended by the
International Olympic Committeeand sodium bicarb is recognized
as one of those.
But we get a lot of potentiallyadverse side effects from
(05:36):
taking it, the main one beinggut issues, things like diarrhea
, nausea.
But what's interesting to me is, you know, when I was doing
research for this podcast.
Yes, a lot of the studiesshowed they had to exclude
certain participants becausethey had GI issues, or maybe
they included them, but therewas also a pretty big percentage
(05:57):
of people that didn't have anysymptoms.
So I think in the medicalcommunity and the sports
community, we've written it offbecause for most, for a athletes
, the side effects are not worthit, but at the same time, there
could be a lot of athletes outthere that it's perfectly fine
for.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, I think historically it's gotten a bad
rap for those potential issuesand I think too, what made me do
the first podcast about it wassome new products on the market,
trying to go around and kind ofavoiding the GI issue Anything
from the PR lotion from AmpHuman to the kind of latest and
greatest Morton bicarb littlemixture stuff that people
(06:38):
consume to make it easier oreither bypass the gut entirely
or make it easier on the stomachto handle some of this.
Additionally, I've got athletesboth kind of like pro and
amateur taking different sort ofcapsules and things like that.
So there's many different waysto go about getting the bicarb
into your body.
We'll get to that in a second,but it's pretty solid in
(07:00):
research to say that it improvesanything from a anaerobic
capacity like a long sprint, tosay that it it improves anything
from a um anaerobic capacitylike a long sprint 20, 30
seconds, something like that,all the way out to 12 minutes.
So is it to you, kristen, whenyou've went through a bunch of
the research, uh, for thispodcast itself or some of the
stuff in the past, are youseeing anything that says
(07:22):
definitely it's like longer than12 minutes?
Or what are you seeing withyour athletes that are using it.
What do you recommend and whereare we going with this bicarb
thing for endurance?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, in the research it is.
When you look at themeta-analyses, you look at the
studies that have been testingthis, there's definitely more
evidence to support that shorterduration, like 30 seconds to 12
minutes.
But there is some newer studiescoming out Granted, they're
small sample sizes and there'snot as many of them showing that
(07:54):
there could be a performancebenefit for activities up to an
hour or an hour and a half,which is still not super long,
but something that I've beenexperimenting with some of the
athletes that I work with thatuse this is.
So maybe it only helps for upto 12 minutes, but let's take a
road race, for example, or acriterium, a race that's like 60
(08:18):
, 90, 120 minutes.
If the fourth attack goes offand that's the move that sticks
because everyone's fatigued, butyou made it in there and that
happened in the first 10, 20minutes of the race, that's
going to put you in a reallygood spot for success.
So, do you need it to last anhour?
(08:38):
Not necessarily, depending onthe application and the sport
that you're in.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, that's it for sure.
It's like, just because youknow the effort is 12 minutes or
less, it's like that couldhappen at any given moment, and
you're you can probably help meon this too.
But once I do ingest it, thebenefit of that sodium
bicarbonate is floating aroundyour body.
For what?
Two, three hours long.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yep, something like that Mike Woods would say.
Four is what he said in hisarticle.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Exactly so I mean, and so it'll last over time.
So, depending on when, when themove goes, like you said, when
you actually need to make aneffort, it'll be there in the
body to handle it.
I'd say anecdotally, both withmyself and my athletes, it's
also the repeated efforts.
So if I need to do a 30-secondeffort or a 60-second effort or
a 10-minute breakaway orsomething like that, and then go
(09:30):
again and again, it seems likethere's a durability component
to it because of that aciditythat increases with repeated
efforts.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely yeah, and some of the
studies that I looked at, Imean we know that a certain
amount will produce, it'll raise, the pH of your blood to a
certain level as you accumulatethose hydrogen ions with the
exercise.
So, like the matches you'reburning or the efforts you're
doing, you're slowly making itmore acidic, but you still are
(10:04):
starting from that period oftime where your blood is more
alkaline.
So if you're in a race andthere's only two matches that
you have to burn and they're notall out, you know your blood is
still going to stay morealkaline than it was before.
If you do three or four or fiveattacks now, that's going to
lower the pH.
(10:25):
So I think there's an elementto how long it's in your system
period.
So that two, three, maybe fourhours, maybe not, and then also
the demands of the race or theactivity that you're doing.
So like are you doing 25sprints?
It's probably going to run outpretty quickly.
Are you doing a few?
You might have a longer periodof time where your blood is
(10:46):
staying at that more basic level.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah.
So before we get into any,here's how to use this protocols
or how much to actually ingest.
What sort of athlete are yourecommending sodium bicarbonate
to?
Is it anybody that wants tocompete within one to four hours
?
Is it?
Is it, um, steady athletes,always sprinty athletes, and
(11:12):
speak to maybe like what sort ofathlete with what sort of
habits should be looking at?
Uh, somebody supplementing withsodium bicarb?
Because if I'm somebody who iskind of the normal master's
racer maybe 40 plus, and I wantthat extra edge I'm only
training 10 hours a week or less.
(11:32):
I'm going to, I want that edgeand it's a safe, recommended by
all the authorities.
Therefore, yeah, I'm doing it.
Man, what would you say to thatkind of weekend warrior, time
crunched athlete who wants theextra edge?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
every podcast we talked about this.
So we want to make sure thatthe athlete is meeting their
body's energy needs andmacronutrient needs, is getting
them from primarily whole foodsand overall optimizing the
quality of their eating patterns.
And then we go to performancespecific nutrition strategies,
making sure that they are eatingthe optimal amounts and types
of foods before, during andafter training.
(12:25):
And then we get into supplementprotocols.
So, seeing as there's nevergoing to be an application of
like a deficiency, to applysodium bicarb, this is purely
for as an ergogenic aid,something that will improve
performance.
So, athletes that I'verecommended this to, definitely
(12:46):
anyone that's doing track racingfor the most part, like the
athletes that I have cycliststhat are track racers Um, we
always want to test it out.
First.
It's not worked with themajority of the athletes that
I've worked with but, um,potentially we needed to try
other forms.
So track cycling, for sure, andthen other types of races,
(13:09):
anything that has demand ofshort hard efforts in the first
hour.
So not necessarily a road racethat is flat for the first three
hours and there might be a hillsection at the end first three
hours and there might be a hillsection at the end, but
something like a criterium wherethey're doing um multiple bouts
of fatigue with the sprintingout of corners and maybe they
(13:30):
are um one of the teammates thatis on the offense in the first
half of the race.
So those types of efforts andalso I've also recommended it to
things like cyclocross so short, shorter duration, um demands
of high intensity.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yep, yeah, and with that cross country mountain
biking, um, short track mountainbiking, crits, road races, yeah
, and I can't I really can'temphasize this enough and I'm
glad you brought it up, kristenis like all these supplemental
things If it's caffeine, sodium,bicarb, beetroot, betalains,
whatever, if you get everythingelse wrong, the foundational
(14:09):
aspects wrong, this stuff ain'tgoing to work for you.
If you're running on a glycogenmidway through or if you just
don't have enough energy onboard, all the caffeine in the
world is just going to stressyou out, it's going to actually
give you more cognitive fatigue.
And if you ain't sleeping or ifyou're not actually doing your
training program, forget it.
(14:30):
Like all this is like on apyramid of importance, it's it's
at the very top sleeping,training, eating, hydrating,
that's all the bottom.
Okay, so, as you're buildingyour pyramid of performance or
whatever analogy you want to usethis, but I get so many
questions about the tippytippies top stuff, not so much
(14:53):
about the base or the middle orsomething like that.
So so, because everyone, ouraudience, asks these questions,
we're answering it today, butwe're also going to like bring
that perspective of why and whenand how to do this and if you,
I would say qualify as anathlete to do that.
So if you do have the goodsleeping habits, the good
training habits we've optimizedbody composition, we've
(15:19):
optimized fueling strategies andwe're now into the realm of
race strategies and how toincrease performance, yeah, then
you qualify for some sodiumbicarb, some beetroot, some
caffeine, and away we go.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yep.
And one other thing I would addto that is there are safety
concerns.
It is generally considered asafe supplement, but if you have
any kind of blood pressureissues, if you're on blood
pressure medication, and alsosomething to consider is if you
are at a predisposition forkidney stones.
(15:49):
A lot of masters, male athletes, are already predisposed and
there is some evidence tosuggest I mean, it's just a lot
of stress on your kidneysputting this much sodium through
filtering it.
So if you have had them oryou're prone to them, definitely
this is something I would notrecommend.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, so that's really good that you brought
that up.
I was going to get there whenwe talked about some of the
specific products.
But straight into the point, avery popular product, the Morton
19 or 22 for reference.
The 22'm experienced with it.
That's the recommendation thatthey give.
If you do the math on it, thatis roughly 6,000 milligrams of
(16:38):
sodium that you're pumpingthrough the system and so,
anecdotally, like it worksreally well for me.
But I feel like I can feel thepressure to the system Like I
can feel it in my neck.
I can feel like I can feel whenI'm going and that's good
because from a performancestandpoint, because the blood is
pushing to all the workingmuscles, and if you're going to
go hard, that is positive.
(16:59):
But if your system can't handleit for the reasons that Kristen
just described yourhypertension and some of these
other issues that's not a goodthing.
Okay, so you got to stay awayfrom it.
Meanwhile, if you do consume it, like you got to, you got to
pound water Like you really haveto.
(17:21):
So we'll probably get there.
But let's talk about why it's somuch sodium that you're putting
through the system, and thatmeans getting into guidelines,
because, askers, you can root ahero of mine.
A lot of his research is citedin this in the way of the
protocol and how much to consume.
So, um, Kristen, how much inlike a gram per kilogram, should
do you recommend athletes take?
(17:41):
When should we do this kind ofwalk us through how to actually
consume this stuff?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, so um, asker Jukendrup is also I'm also a big
fan.
He produces a lot of greatresearch and is really good at
um boiling it down intopractical information.
So, um, both he and alsothere's a position stand that
came out from the internationalsociety of sports nutrition uh,
(18:08):
in 2021.
That's a really great referenceof um.
It has a few hundred studies,including meta-analyses that it
took research for, and then itprovides recommendations.
So both Dr Jukendrup and thisposition statement recommend 0.3
grams of sodium bicarbonate perkilogram body weight is shown
(18:31):
to be the amount that iseffective and also will be less
likely to produce side effects.
So we do know that the more weconsume, the more the better
environment we have for likeproducing that alkalinity, the
(18:52):
performance benefit, but alsothe more likely athletes are to
get side effects.
So if you're trying to do 0.4or 0.5, you could try it and see
what happens, and any less than0.3, potentially 0.2 has been
shown to be helpful, but moststudies show that you need at
least 0.3.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, and so for everybody listening, it's like
the reason we cite research, thereason why we have research is
and then we give it to you invery simple terms is so that you
can start in with what theresearch says and then dial it
in accordingly to yourself.
So sure, always experiment, butjust know that if you're
getting up into the 0.5, it's awarning zone.
But just know that if you'regetting up into the 0.5, it's a
(19:33):
warning zone.
If 0.3, which is like right inthe middle not working for you,
back it down and know that therehas been findings to say that a
little lower still can improve.
But don't just go like jumpingin the box of sodium into a
glass of water and going for it.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Mm, hmm, yeah, and one other point.
So the position statement alsotalked about how if you take 0.4
or 0.5 grams per kilogram bodyweight per day up to three days
before, it can help yourperformance the next day.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So there's, you know potentially you could take more
in over a period of time limitthose GI symptoms for your
actual event, and that wouldalso be helpful.
Yeah, that's a good pointbecause in those usage
guidelines so what we've beentalking about a little bit more
exclusively so far on thepodcast is the single dose,
where we're taking it beforecompetition.
What you just described, that'sthe multi-dose, so it's
essentially like loading yoursystem right before going into
the competition.
And, yeah, the reason you dothat is to minimize GI issue on
(20:37):
race day.
So with single dose, if weswing back to that, there's a
like a window of time to takethis before competition.
That's recommended, right, andwhat is that?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yep, um.
So 180 minutes, which is two,three hours before uh, three
hours before has been shown tobe like the max amount of time
before you will start to um beout of that window, but also the
most time that you have tolimit the chance of GI symptoms.
(21:10):
So usually a hundred and likean two to three hours before is
recommended.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yep, yeah, and I know with the Morton stuff I think
they were saying like 90 minutesbefore, like you, even like
kind of start.
So they they hedge that theirsystem to neutral or to have
limit any GI issue a little.
They say 90 minutes.
I don't know Like I've I've hada couple athletes that it's
like oh, I still have a littlegurgly, so extend that out to
(21:37):
two hours and then kind of a nonissue.
So I think to go with therecommendation always, adjust
accordingly and all in as you gohere too, and we'll we'll link
to a lot of this research, bothfrom Dr Jukenroob and the
position statements that Kristenis talking about.
We'll link to those that youcan go back and start in on that
(22:00):
for yourself if you are curiousabout this, and that'll include
both the single dose and themulti-dose recommendations.
What's kind of fun here isthere's the competition or the
day of that we're talking about,so for performance.
But there's also recently apretty cool study coming up from
Gabriella Gallo, who has beenon the podcast before and he's
(22:22):
in.
What he did was he looked atsome research that had training
implications to it.
So it's not only the raceitself, but it was an eight week
training program that used acontrol group that didn't take
sodium bicarbonate and then hada training group that did take
sodium bicarbonate.
They did the same training andwhat did they find?
Kristen?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
They found.
Actually I should have writtenthis down beforehand, but there
were performance benefits.
So they did actually havehigher training adaptations in
the group that did use um,sodium bicarb, throughout their
training, not just for oneworkout or one um trainings or,
yeah, or one race.
So uh, adam, you might need tohelp me out here.
(23:04):
I believe it was increased theVO two max and then there were
two other metrics.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, so it was.
So they they tested before andafter and what they, and they
dosed them.
I didn't write down the actualdosing but it followed the
general recommendation of 0.2 to0.3.
And they dosed them for thehigh-intensity workouts
themselves.
They didn't dose them for theendurance and what they saw was
the bicarb group had an increasein VO2 max post eight-week
(23:30):
training program power at LT2,which was basically FTP, and an
increased time to task failure,which means essentially time to
exhaustion.
There are TTE would be themetric that I talk about on the
podcast all the time relatedback to WKO five.
So essentially max power,production power, lt two and
(23:51):
when you take a certain amountof work and just go until you
can't, that also improved.
So what's interesting about thisis if you say, well, okay, what
does that?
What does it mean?
How'd they get there?
If the sodium bicarbonateallows you to do more training
in the session itself and youkeep on doing more training
(24:13):
sessions like that, you'll getmore training effect and
therefore you increase yourperformance.
So it's not shocking to me thatthe mechanism neutralizes
acidity with intensity.
You do that a lot of times fortraining sessions and then you
get even more benefit from thetraining sessions themselves.
It's super curious and there's afew asterisks here because it's
(24:33):
eight weeks, okay, but thenalso the group was a
recreational active cyclist.
So it's I would say that it is.
It fits a lot of like timecrunched athletes, maybe our
athletes that are kind of new tothe sport, maybe you want to
have good habits and they wantto improve some layers of this.
It's not elite athletes, it'snot looking at people who have
(24:55):
been doing this for 20 years,although I would argue that
there's probably going to besome benefit there.
But just and we'll cite thisresearch, but it's worth looking
at because his write-ups arelike five minutes long, but all
the data will be there.
But I think that's a prettystrong, pretty strong research.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, so, um, I mean a couple of the inferences there
, like things we can extrapolateon, like, potentially, the this
population, like these athletes, have more room for improvement
in their top end in thosemetrics that you mentioned, like
the time to exhaustion.
So, anytime that we can um getthose athletes to do more work
in those sessions, yes, it'sgoing to produce those training
adaptations.
So, yeah, super interestingstudy, definitely promising.
(25:38):
And and um, like you mentioned,adam, also, this is mostly
applicable for certain types ofworkouts, right, like we don't
necessarily recommend doing thisfor um lower intensity training
, but any kind of high intensityinterval training would make
sense.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Absolutely, and I and I think that's really important
to address because unlessyou're doing like a multi-dose
sort of strategy with this, youshouldn't be taken by carb for
your endurance ride, your threehour endurance ride or even like
a five hour ride that doesn'thave a ton of intensity to it.
It doesn't look like you'll getmuch benefit there.
It's a little bit of anasterisk, is like okay, well,
(26:18):
adam, you want to talk about theendurance component of
performance and all this kind ofstuff?
And on the previous podcast Italked to Coop about some ultra
runners consuming sodiumbicarbonate and what we
discussed was like yeah, there'sdefinitely not a ton of
research to say in cause, ultrarunners, you're just going slow
all the time.
What Coop said, if I callcorrectly from my notes, is that
(26:41):
you just get.
You get so depleted that therecould be some for people who
they say anecdotally like it isbenefiting them.
They get so depleted oneverything, including sodium.
It's just a nice high dose ofsodium and as long as they stay
hydrated there could be somebenefit there.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But the bicarbonate, the buffering of the muscle
acidity, is probably not, uh,contributing there for ultra
endurance folk yeah, and on topof that, um, with the sodium
depletion also, it's just goingto increase their plasma volume
so they'll be be able to getmore oxygen to the muscles they
need.
And also, I think athletes likeKillian, like they're really
(27:21):
experienced, they may, they'llbe able to pace really well.
But I wonder if some of wemight have some rec athletes out
there that if you're overpacing, yeah, maybe it will help
because you're going to burnthrough a lot of those factors
in the first hour and it couldhelp to make you more successful
later in the race.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah, and to that point, high dose of volume,
increased plasma volume.
We've talked about that on acouple other episodes.
What's interesting there and Ithought back to my interview
with Dr McCubbin where the saltintake or the sodium intake over
time, that's actually not thedriver of performance.
(28:03):
What's occurring there is itmakes you thirsty and you drink
more and over time, if you canconsume more fluid and then you
have the kind of the properchemistry within the cell going
on which sodium helps regulatethat a little bit, that could be
an extra benefit or an extralayer of some of this like ultra
endurance stuff.
So I think I'm not saying takebicarb if you're doing um, like
(28:25):
the unbound gravel or somethinglike that, I don't think that
you need to put this in your uh,your, your aid station or
anything like that.
I think where it shines themost is intensity, intermittent
intensity and endurancecomponents, where it is like
road racing for four hoursbecause it's in your system for
long periods of time.
If you are going just to finishthe gravel race and there's not
(28:48):
a ton of performancenecessarily in the goal, I don't
think that you need to jackyourself on sodium bicarbonate.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yep, that's what we think so far, for sure pro tour
(29:21):
on down.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
there's a lot of use of sodium bicarbonate, more so
than like five to 10 years ago,and I think that is curious.
I think that because there isum potential benefit with not a
ton of cost like I've becomemore liberal in my
recommendation of sodiumbicarbonate to athletes.
That's kind of what I'm tryingto say.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, another um interesting anecdotal story I
have about an athlete Irecommended it to is um, she is
doing stage races and a lot ofthe stage race she was doing
include prologues, so reallyshort races, um, but also ones
that are in that anywhere fromlike 10 to 30 minutes, um, and
(29:59):
she reported that she didn'tknow where her limit was when
she was taking it because now,like her body sensations were so
much different than she wasused to training, like you know,
when you're doing a time trial,a lot of athletes these days
they don't even even stillthey're not necessarily relying
on their power meter, they'rerelying on these body sensations
(30:22):
to tell them how hard they needto go when depending on the
course features.
But she said that it kind ofmessed up her pacing plan
because she couldn't feel thosesensations and it was a lot
different than she was used to.
So, even if there was aperformance benefit, definitely
need to practice with it becauseit does feel different for sure
.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it feels super differentand couldn't agree more.
And that goes to the generalrecommendation of anytime that
you're going to use something ina race, work backward and try
it in training beforehand so youget those sensations before you
kind of know where the upperend is.
I was talking with Kristen acouple of weeks ago after one of
our podcasts and I've gotstrong data on myself that every
time I buy a car I've got a oneto two and a half percent
(31:05):
increase in power production,especially at 20 minutes and
five minutes and so, and whenI'm, when I'm going there, I do
feel like I have extra capacity.
It's not going to work foreverybody, but those sensations
are important and you canoverpace and maybe over deliver
in those situations.
So it's a curious littleproduct that we are talking
(31:26):
about here.
But to wrap this up and I thinklike a little bit in closing
here, Kristen, you've been inthe sport for a long time.
You're a dietitian, you're acoach, you work with elite
athletes, you work with weekendwarriors.
Do you see sodium bicarbonatecoming back into the limelight
and becoming like the nextcaffeine or even as common as
(31:48):
sport drink itself?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
My instincts are actually telling me no.
I think this will always besomewhat novel.
I think there are risks, like alot of the other supplements
and things that are commonplace,are there's really no downside?
And they might not.
They might even have otherhealth benefits.
Right, like beetroot juice is agood example, too, to add to
that list.
Beetroot juice has a ton ofantioxidants and there's other
(32:14):
benefits beyond the performanceindications.
The performance indications, um, ketones as well, like it was
first used in clinical practiceand then this and then sports
found out about.
They're like oh, this isinteresting.
So, um, I my instincts aretelling me it's not necessarily
going to be commonplace, butdefinitely at the high level it
(32:35):
might be commonplace.
So at the world tour levelmaybe, yes.
At the recreational level,probably not.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, I would agree with that, for the mere fact
that the performance is the maindriver of this right and I
think, with a lot of, um,amateur athletes, I'm just going
to say is like there's a lot ofother stuff on the table that
we can work on and some lowhanging fruit to pick before we
pick sodium bicarbonate.
So, um, sleep habits, nutrition, hydration habits, training
(33:06):
habits and tactical habits, Ifit's comes down to like racing,
if you just become a better bikeracer itself way better than a
one or 2% sodium bicarbonateboost, Right.
So there, there's a lot ofother stuff to work on.
However, for the marginal gainaspect of it, I do think that
this will be um, I mean, it kindof already is right.
(33:28):
It's the marginal, it's one ofthe marginal gain aspects that
we can talk about.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yep, and I mean even on that note.
We know caffeine works, atleast in the literature, and,
like I said, sodium bicarb weknow it works Like something
like ketones is a little bitmore subjective, depending on
what research you're looking at.
So it's not whether it works ornot, it's like what other
factors are holding us back fromdoing it.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yep, yep, exactly so kind of in summary.
I mean sodium bicarbonate,definitely here to stay.
It's a marginal gains thing.
I've become more liberal in myrecommendation for both short
and long-term.
But even in that long-termendurance I would say it's best
used when you have intermittentintensity or some sort of
performance aspect to it.
Kristen gave yourecommendations on gram per
(34:16):
kilogram to take it and take itkind of a far way out.
I think you said 90 minutes upto three hours, right.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, and if you're going to, if you're going to
implement this into a race, makesure you do it a couple of
times in training and make sureit works for you so that you
don't have a bike harm blowoutat some point I know.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I was just going to say, when you are testing it out
, definitely have a bathroomnearby, like maybe you do it at
a training race in a park orsomething and you know the and
make sure that the uh, the doorsare not locked, depending on
what time of year you're there.
It could happen.
You don't want to use a bush,you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
This is.
This is all true, but also verygood, uh, recommendations.
So, um, yeah, besides that, isthere anything else that you
want to add to it, Kristen?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
I think we covered it pretty well.
Yeah, marginal gains.
I always love talking aboutthese topics.
They're always fun, even ifit's just fun to listen and
think about what could happenwith these things.
Um, it's.
It's good to do.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, Agreed for sure , and I think too, as the
research slowly evolves and alsoathletes kind of using it in
different ways, um, we, we gotto think of why it's it's
helping them, you know,anecdotally, and then try to, um
, find it in the data and then,you know, bring it down to, uh,
the average person that'scurious about it.
So that's our aim on the on thepodcast today and and Kristen,
(35:42):
uh, kind of like always, if, if,people liked what they heard
from you here, uh, how do theyget in touch with you?
Do you do consults?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah, uh, my website is sports nutrition for womencom
.
I don't only work with womenathletes, but, um, I primarily
work with women athletes and,like we're taking clients right
now, really anytime, I have twoother practitioners that work
for me as well, and so one ofthe things we do integrate is
supplement protocols.
So if this is something you'reinterested in, we will work on
(36:13):
that foundational andperformance centric nutrition
strategies, but we also do havesupplement recommendations and
protocols for that.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Perfect.
Well, I will link to yourwebsite and your socials in the
landing page, and that's whereyou can also find some of the
meta-analysis, some of the stufffrom Dr Zuckernup as well as Dr
Gabriel Ligello with Knowledgeis what All that stuff will be
on the landing page.
So head on over totrainrightcom backslash podcast,
and it's also nested in theApple podcast, the Google, the
(36:43):
Spotify just laid out there.
So make sure to scroll down ifyou want to get a little bit
more information and connectwith Kristen.
Thank you so much again,Kristen, for joining us.
I'm sure you'll be back on thepodcast soon, but until then, uh
, yeah, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Thanks again.
Can't wait for the next one.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Thanks for joining us on the Time Crunch Cyclist
podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even moreactionable training advice, head
over to trainrightcom backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
Each week you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
(37:23):
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
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