September 24, 2025 • 33 mins
OVERVIEW
95% of the cyclists and runners coached by Sarah Scozzaro and Adam Pulford incorporate strength training. Scozzaro is one of our top strength and conditioning coaches and in Episode 273 she and Coach Adam discuss how cyclists should blend strength and endurance training throughout the year.
Topics Covered In This Episode:
- How different endurance athletes leverage strength training
- How strength training changes throughout the year
- When to back off strength training volume during event/race season
- How to reintegrate more strength training in the post-season
- Resources for self-coached and time-crunched athletes
Resources
- Strength Training for Endurance Athletes: Key Exercises
- How to Program Strength Training: An Endurance Coach’s Guide
- Guide: Strength Training for Endurance Athletes » UESCA
Guest Bio:
Sarah Scozzaro is a CTS Pro Coach who specializes in strength training and ultrarunning. A coach within the CTS High Performance Program, she is on the performance teams for Western States Champions Katie Schide and Abby Hall. Sarah has her Masters's degree in Exercise Science with a concentration in performance enhancement and injury prevention. She has a long list of qualifications and certifications after her name, including being a National Strength and Conditioning Association certified personal trainer (NSCA-CPT) and National Academy of Sports Medicine performance enhancement specialist (NASM-PES).
Guest Links:
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform
GET FREE TRAINING CONTENT
Join our weekly newsletter
CONNECT WITH CTS
Website: trainright.com
Instagram: @cts_trainright
Twitter: @trainright
Facebook: @CTSAthlete
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance even if
you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches whomake up the team at CTS.
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
Now on to our show.
(00:53):
Welcome back, time Crunch fans.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford.
I'm back with CTS coach SarahScazzaro to talk about
performance benefits fromstrength training in endurance
sport, but we're going to take aslightly different angle on it,
because I know most of youlistening likely do some kind of
strength training already andyou know the benefits.
But how can you arrange yourtraining on a high level or like
(01:14):
on an annual level to make surethat you've got the performance
benefits and the freshness youneed going into that key race?
So, sarah, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thanks for having me back.
It's been so long.
It's been so long.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
In our last episode we talked about weighted vests,
sports specificity of trainingand kind of claimed things that
training stimulus do out therewhen it comes to fitness,
strength training and whatnot.
If you missed that episode,feel free to go back, but you
don't need that episode tounderstand what we're going to
talk about today, because todayis all about strength training
(01:53):
as it pertains to performance inendurance sport as well as just
like performance as a humanbeing.
So, Sarah, is it a fairassumption to say that probably
all of the athletes that youcoach do some kind of strength
training?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'd say a good 90, 95% of them, and if yeah, if
they're not doing it with me,they might be working in person
with a trainer.
Um, I have a, I have a few thatjust don't have, truly don't
have the time, which I thinkwe'll touch on in a bit, um, or
really don't want to, whichmakes my heart break a little
bit.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I will be honest, but you know, yes my heart goes on
but your heart, yeah, your heartshall go on, but I shall go on
I am very, very much so.
The same.
I would say 90, 95.
It's not a pure 100, but why?
Why do you have them do thatstrength training?
If they're an endurance, ultrarunning sport or gravel race or
(02:46):
something like this, why do theydo it at a high level?
What do you expect to gain fromit?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
durability, strength I mean I I look at my athletes
through the lens of they're notonly an athlete, they're a human
being and, especially, like mywomen, bone density.
We need bone density, we needmuscle, we need, you know, all
of these components thatstrength training can give, that
you don't necessarily get fromrunning itself.
You don't get the same stimulusthat makes you just a healthier
, more durable human, which thentranslates to me, I believe, to
(03:14):
a healthier, more durableathlete.
So it's kind of just like thisbeautiful symmetry there of each
one helps the other.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That's exactly it.
Of each one helps the other.
That's that's exactly it.
And, like I said in my intro,we're not going to spend a ton
of time trying to like sell thebenefits to people, because I
think the message is it's outthere on that but kind of
interestingly.
Um, you know we talk about inthis research project we saw xyz
.
Fun fact I did my own undergradresearch project when I was in
college and it was and it wasinvestigating the, the.
(03:47):
What was the exact title?
It was investigating theperformance improvements of
strength training and Olympicstyle weightlifting in endurance
athletes.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I did not know this about you.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, I will send it away.
But I mean I have my owncriticisms of the study design
and things like this.
But I mean what we did was timetrials before and after and we
had an eight week protocol wherewe used Olympic style
weightlifting, so power, cleansquat, I think we did a power
snatch and some other stuff.
I wrote the strength trainingprogram for it train them for
(04:20):
eight weeks and then freshenthem up and tested them and we
saw mixed results on performance.
Okay, mixed results.
Some people got faster, somepeople didn't change, some
people like didn't test againbecause they got busy and all
this kind of stuff.
We were using college professorsand a local triathlon group in
the lacrosse, wisconsin, and itwas super, super fun.
(04:43):
But one key takeaway I wanteverybody to to realize here is
the qualitative data that we gotfrom.
It was everybody who did thetraining said I felt better.
I felt better while doing mytraining, I felt better while
running, biking, I felt betterthroughout the day and I would
say that going through thatprocess is like seeing them in
(05:07):
the first two weeks versus thefinal two weeks.
They moved better at everythingthat we did, cause we did a lot
of like dynamic warmup typestuff as well, and like they
just moved better as as people.
So now the criticism is just,like you know, was six to eight
weeks long enough to see aperformance improvement in sport
, or is that performanceimprovement negligible because
(05:31):
it really came down to theaerobic development needed to do
these time trials that we'redoing and we won't get into that
.
But I think the key aspect ofif you scale that out over time,
or even if you take the factthat they felt better and they
moved better, now we're talkingabout the benefit of strength
training, at least one arm of it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Oh, absolutely, you know increased you know just
neuromuscularly increasedproprioception, increased
feelings of durability andstrength and being more
connected with your body,certain things we just don't get
on the bike or when we'rerunning and I know that's pretty
subjective of like I feelbetter.
You know, it's like people wantlike studies, like yeah, but
(06:11):
how much better did you get?
And it's like, well, it'sreally hard to measure all of
those little details, especiallylike I look at like strength
for ultra runners, how betterthey are navigating over rocky
terrain, how better they canbalance over going over uneven,
you know courses, and I justfeel like there's not only the
(06:31):
strength benefit of things, butjust feeling more comfortable,
confident and competent in yourbody is a benefit I don't think
a lot of people think about whenthey first start strength
training.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, I don't think they do either, but I I would.
I will still make the claimthat data is greater than
feelings, or greater and equalto feelings, and I, if you get
down to it, feeling it can stillbe a piece of data because it
is qualitative data.
With that as a launching pad,there is a way to measure the
improved performance benefit incycling and running, and we'll
(07:04):
get to some of those exampleshere in a minute.
But kind of coming back to itis like how do we do this, sarah
?
Like we do strength training toget all these benefits, but in
the previous episode I talkedabout strength is separate from
endurance.
So and it's very differentbecause of the way that we put
the stimulus, meaning we load ina very overloading sort of way.
(07:26):
Fun fact that I've spilled onthis podcast multiple times
before and people are going tobe like man, you talk about that
all the time, but you need agood reminder is that when you
do a jump, when you just likesquat down, reach and jump, the
power production that you do inthat movement is about five
times greater than what you cando on a, on your maximum effort,
(07:48):
sprinting on a bicycle.
Okay, the power production andforce production that you can do
.
Jumping and lifting your bodyoff of the earth is five times
greater than a maximum effortsprint, okay.
So people need to realize howdifferent that is Okay.
However, what we can do isoverload the body in a very
maximum way, in a very differentway that will then have
(08:10):
carryover so long as we're doingour sport Right, and then we'll
get the benefit there and someof these other benefits, just
like improving the integrity ofthe muscle, the quality of
movement and things like this.
So, sarah, I want to talk aboutthis extra stimulus.
At some point we're doing allthis training, building up to it
.
Building up to it.
If we don't change thattraining stimulus, will it be a
(08:37):
detriment when we come into ourkey race period, or should we
just keep on doing it in hopesthat it will help us through our
key race time period?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So to make sure I'm understanding your question,
you're asking if we continuedoing a certain like we're in a
strength training.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Maybe I'll take it from the top and what I want to
say is like okay, these two areseparate things the strength
training, the endurance training, and this training Strength
training is a lot more stressand a lot different stress than
what we need for the specificityof ultra running or cycling,
but this extra stress is goingto help us for those races.
So how do you balance that,weave that or take down this
(09:17):
stimulus or stressor coming intothis phase of racing?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I work on the principle andmaybe you do do this as well as
least specific to most specific.
So in the beginning of a seasonwe're as far away from let's
say we're as far away from anevent as we're going to be in in
terms of when we startpreparing for it.
So let's say we're six monthsout for a hundred, although one
could argue we're preparing forthese things over years and
cumulative training, right.
(09:44):
But you got this.
You sign up for a race, you'vegot the race on the calendar and
we're pretty far out from it.
So what we do in the weightroom is going to have, in the
moment, minimal impact on thetraining for that event.
I would like to argue that inthe long run it has very big
impact because what we'rebuilding early we can call upon
to utilize later.
But in terms of how it's goingto air, quotes negatively impact
the training, ie, you're goingto have excess fatigue, you're
(10:06):
not going to be able to hitcertain workouts, it's not.
It's going to be of a big of aconcern at that point.
As we get closer to an event orwe get into, like, peak season,
then we do have to startchanging, whether it's the
volume or the intensity, andusually as we get closer to an
event it's going to be a bit ofthe volume that I'm changing.
(10:29):
We like to keep some of thatintensity but we just kind of
take off the volume a bit.
I don't like to change too muchin general from an intensity
standpoint because people getreally comfortable and used to
that and that stimulus and thenyou pull that away from them
very quickly and it can be morejarring and you know.
So it's like we like to keepthat.
But overall, how much we'reloading the system.
So I refer to volume, that is,how much, how many reps and sets
(10:50):
.
So how many, how much,technically, how much weight
they're lifting over a session,because reps by sets, by weight
lifted, um, kind of figuring outthe volume there, uh, but the
intensity will be very similarand I think it it's.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I mean, clearly our audience should realize that
when you get it like a truenerdy strength uh coach that
loves to quantify, like all thethings, we have the same things
like, uh, volume, load and likeduration and all these
quantifiable things in the gymthat you can kind of see in your
(11:23):
brain and measure over time, sovery similar to our, like our
cycling, volume, intensity,frequency, running, same, all
this kind of stuff.
So a good coach will map thatout in whatever modality that
she or he is using.
And that's really what we'retalking about, I think from.
To make it as simple aspossible is, if you do strength
(11:44):
training to help improve yourperformance, you've got to take
it down about four to six weeks,like two to three times a week
leading up.
If I just if I take it and I gozero, which I never do because
(12:09):
of what you just said, and Inever really like to take it
further away because it it doessomething to the psyche as well
as the muscles.
So you need to have amaintenance period in there.
However, if we just take itdown to maintenance, I should
still get those benefits for atleast four to six weeks, if not
maybe a little longer, dependingon athlete phenotype, muscle
type, the history of all thethings, but like would you agree
(12:30):
?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
oh yeah, absolutely.
And even in that case, um, aswe get closer to like event like
that final four to six weeksand you know stress is getting
higher with the volume of theiractual main sport training,
we'll call it, whether that'scycling or running, life stuff
happens recovery.
I will always prioritize thosethings in that key area and if
that means we have to reduce thestrength from three to two or
(12:52):
two to one, you can maintaineasily four to six weeks, even
off that one session if you hadto.
So I think that's important forpeople to realize that you know
like, oh God, I feel so bad, Ihave to cut back on my strength
and it's like you're not goingto lose anything.
We've got to prioritize thisevent and if that comes, if
strength comes at the or ifrecovery comes at the cost of
(13:12):
your strength, we have to startthe hierarchy of what's
important.
But yeah, back to your question.
I'm kind of getting off therails there.
But back to your question.
Yes, that the rails there.
But back to your question.
Yes, that four to six weeks isthat critical period we may not
change.
So again, this is very athletespecific.
I work with everything fromfirst time strength people to
some of the pros and soexperience and background with
(13:33):
strength plays a lot into this.
So with some folks we're notchanging necessarily the
exercises too too much, but thevolume of them, the placement
and sets, you know what, whatelse we're doing, that those
types of things, um, we're notgoing from.
You know we're not changingthings too significantly, but um
, yeah, we do have to to adjustto account for those final four
(13:56):
to six weeks.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, and I think for listeners the main message is
like if you do strength trainingand if you don't really cycle
the training or change too much,or if you, if you're resistant
to it coming in cause you don'twant to lose those gains, it's
like let go because you're fine.
Yeah, number one, you're fine.
Number two you'll capitalize ona super compensation effect,
(14:18):
which is you have all this.
You got to think about anathlete like where they're going
, kind of like what Sarah wassaying is just like the history
of them, where they're going inthe long run.
And the way I think as a coachis like things cycle up and
cycle down, right, so as we'regetting, you know, momentum and
strength in the gym, uh, wemight lose it in the bike and
then we gain it in the bike andwe might lose it in the gym,
(14:40):
completely fine.
But there's this little timeperiod where we can have a super
compensation effect and for mycrit racers, mountain bike
racers, people that have a lotof anaerobic contribution to the
, to the race themselves, thatfour to six weeks I usually, if
I do strength training well withthem leading up to it, take it
off and they just go and they dotheir group rides or races or I
(15:02):
tell them to go do a sprint.
I usually get a an extra two to3% when I just take the, the
gym stress off itself because,think about it, it is a stressor
If I take it away and I wasstressing them properly.
There is that adaptation effect, super compensation effect,
that goes into a good taper andall this kind of stuff and I
just I get it at that right timeand that's typically what I see
(15:24):
when I do it.
Well, 100.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And that's the key to doing it well and that's part
of the art and science of itright Of knowing that particular
athlete and knowing when tostart pulling back and and how.
You know again, it's strengthtraining is a stressor and it
has to be in order to get theadaptations we want.
So if you're doing it right,it's a stressor and at certain
points in an athlete's seasonthat stress becomes more of a
(15:52):
liability I hate to use thatword, but it becomes more of a
risk than a gain proposition.
So we have to pull back alittle bit, a to be able to have
them recovered and be able toperform well, but also, like you
mentioned, to actually even getthat super compensation.
So we're actually getting abonus from it.
So people automatically think Imean I have athletes that I'll
go around and around withbecause they're like I need to.
I don't want to stop strengthtraining.
(16:16):
You know to me, you know it'slike okay, but know that if you
do, you're not going to losefitness.
In fact, we might actuallystart to get some benefits from
this.
That's it which blows their mindbecause they think well, if I
stop doing the thing, I stopgetting the benefits, and that's
not how this works.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Exactly and I think it's one thing that helped me
realize that was actually from,like, the fatigue associated
with training Coley Moore, who'sbeen on this podcast before he.
He's got a nice joke.
He always says people they getcomfortable with this cloak of
fatigue.
where I said just like do moretraining, do more training.
I feel this way and they'relike have this cloak of fatigue
(16:51):
and I feel good and normal.
Let's remove that cloak,freshen up and go.
And it can be from running, itcan be from cycling, but it can
also be from strength training,where you're staying suppressed
in order for a gain eventually.
So now you got to determinewhen you want that gain to
happen.
Take away the stress.
We got four to six weeks usually, but that with an asterisk too,
(17:12):
because I think the reality is,with my athletes who are doing
a lot of strength training, Idon't just take it off for four
to six weeks, I take that offfor a key time period, but then
we're probably rolling inmaintenance mode for, you know,
four months or so, and then wehave a transition period and
then we kind of like start backup in like off season and in
something like this.
(17:32):
So I think, like, withoutgetting into a whole annual
planning kind of saga, I thinkwhat I've heard and seen from
athletes out there as well I'vedone it well and I've not done
it well but from some of theself-coached athletes, it's like
they think they need to bedoing strength training year
round to get all those benefitsand I really want them to
challenge that thought and tocycle the training and to take
(17:54):
it off during those key timeperiods, because you're only
going to get more benefit.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah, from a performance standpoint, which is
what we're talking about here.
You know, obviously and there'sthe part of me that argues like
, oh, but strength training isgood year round because of who
we are.
But, yes, we can recognize thatbut also see its place in
performance and preparation forevents and how we have to bleed
it off and pull back and then weknow that after the event and
after recovery we can come rightback at it in an appropriate
(18:20):
way at the appropriate time.
I think, just like our normalendurance sport training, if you
do something nonstop year roundand never give yourself a break
, you are going to get mentaland physical burnout.
It's not sustainable.
So I think there's a pointwhere you kind of like step back
from something and then you'rethat much more excited and ready
and prepared to do it when it'stime to come back to it.
(18:43):
Whatever you and your coach oryou personally decide that
timing is, for some people it'sa bigger break than others.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yep, yep, that's it.
And I think too, like just forself-coach athletes wanting a
little bit more concrete stuffhere is you know, if you're
going to do strength training,probably you know three or four
times where you're touchingweights and stressing your body
three times to four times a weekin this kind of like build
phase and that can come with anasterisk.
(19:10):
But I think, when you're, whenyou're in that season sort of
stuff, when you're like trainingand or training heavily, or
racing or something like thisAaron Carson, who's been on this
podcast before, she trainsmovement versus muscle.
Uh, that's her thing and Iwould highly agree with her on
this is like now we reducefrequency to two or two and a
(19:31):
half times per week and wereduce load, quite a bit Um, and
it's it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
uh God, the people that could have the bandwidth to
do four days a week of strengthand high level training and
recovery, and it's just it.
(19:57):
It's too much.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
It's a lot and if I do have people doing four, it's
usually because I've reduced theendurance training component
right To to offer more time andand I think for a time crunched
athlete that's like listening tothis where it's like I'm lucky
to get like five hours a week ormaybe like four days of actual
training per week.
How do you handle somebody whowants to do their sport and
(20:22):
strength training and they onlygot four, six hours to do it?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah.
So, like we've talked aboutbefore, that kind of a hierarchy
of training and training, andif their event requires so much
training in order to do itoptimally and perform the best
that they can get to that startline, we're going to prioritize
the main sport, of course,especially in like that peak
session, and that might meanwhere you get two or one days of
strength training a week.
(20:47):
For some people that meansthat's when we start to bleed it
off, when we pull it backbecause we just they either
don't have the time to do thetraining or it comes at the cost
of well, I could ride or Icould lift, and dollars to
donuts you're going to say, hey,I'd rather have you ride, in
your case, with your goal, withwhere you are.
I would say the same with myrunning athletes and or have the
(21:09):
time, but they don't have therecovery.
So they've got the time to dothe two days of strength a week,
but they don't have the time tothen fully recover, to do the,
to do their rides or their runs,because that's cutting into
recovery time.
And if, if their main sport iscoming at a cost of the strength
, then that's when we have tostart really adjusting sometimes
.
Sometimes that's simply thatcould even be a shorter session,
(21:36):
like, hey, we're going to hitjust two or three lifts just to
kind of keep you, you know,because you love it.
I've got athletes.
I'm one of them.
I love to strength train, Iwant to be in the gym, I love
doing it and, okay, well, let'sstructure this in a way that is
proactive and productive, versusputting you in a hole.
Um, so there's that too.
It doesn't have to be a 90minute session.
None of my sessions are 90minutes, by the way, don't do
(21:56):
bodybuilding training here, um,but yeah, how about yourself?
Do you find kind of similar?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
It's similar, for sure, I think, for a time
crunched athlete.
It's just where it gets likenuanced, individualized, and I
would argue like like on onehand over here and then on the
other hand over here, like twoseparate things.
It's like strength trainingyear round is really beneficial
for a time crunched athletebecause it's going to make them
a healthier like human.
But then it's like, oh well, wecan get rid of the strength
(22:25):
training component and maximizethe volume, right.
But I to your point, I do thatwhen they're coming up like uh,
I gave you the example earlierit's like somebody coming up to
the triple bypass and it's like,if I got an extra 20 or 30
minutes, we need to put that onthe bike, yeah, and like skip
strength training.
But one one quick hack that I dowith time crunch people during
that uh like time period wherewe just need to like maintain
(22:46):
somewhat, is I do push-ups, uh,sit sit-ups or like, uh, like in
air squats, you know that kindof thing, or wall sits, and it's
just like before they jump onthe bike, it's maybe like five
or seven minutes of just likemoving and stimulating the
muscles and then they go, and Iusually do it before because
they tend to feel better whenthey ride, cause they're like
(23:07):
activated and warmed up and gone, versus like if they a wall sit
after they ride.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
They last half as long because the muscles are
already tired and if they'redoing the wall sit before,
they're probably they'reactually you're seeing a good
response in their, their ridetime, versus you're getting a
poor air quotes, poor responsein the wall sit after.
So it's like doing it beforefor that particular athlete.
You get the benefit of both.
Um, I know I have some athletesthat were even scaling back to
(23:31):
some form of a contrast trainwith a plyo and an isometric
exercise that we do in certainpoints where they don't have a
lot of time.
But there's very especiallywith isometrics.
There's very little cost andsome great gain in terms of how
it's going to impact theirtraining.
And to your point earlier, Ilove giving these broad like oh,
(23:52):
this is what I do, but it is,and I'm sure you're the same way
.
It is.
So athlete, individual focused.
I will have athletes trainingfor the same events.
Their training looks nothingsimilar.
Their strength training looksnothing alike.
How they handle the loading,their life, everything outside
of their training impacts theirtraining.
And so recovery time, jobstress, life everything outside
(24:13):
of their training impacts theirtraining, you know.
And so recovery time, jobstress, life, access to
equipment, priorities, you knowI've got some athletes that are
like, yeah, I want to do this100 miler, but I also really
want to.
You know, my bone density isvery important to me and I'd
rather come to the event.
I'm not looking to perform,like you know, top 10 or
anything.
I want to to finish, but I alsowant to be really strong and I
love my strength training.
Yeah, they get to that's.
(24:34):
That's they get to prioritizeand decide how we shape their
training.
I don't get to tell them likeno, this isn't important for you
, so, and vice versa too,because then I'll get.
If we talked about earlier, westarted.
I've got that small percentageof athletes that are like zero
interest in strength training.
Yeah, my soul dies, like I saida little.
Every time they say that justso you all know.
(24:55):
But I have to respect that.
I can try to tell them thebenefits and show them the
benefits, but at the end of theday they get to make the
decision of what they want inpart of their training yeah,
yeah, I mean, it's theirtraining, it's their, and their
goals become my goals, so tospeak, and it's up to me to
guide them in the rightdirection.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Say, yeah, strength training can improve you a
little bit, but if you don'twant to do it, okay, cool.
It's like somebody trying toget me to do an eight-hour ride.
I'm just not going to do it atthis point.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, you said it perfectly their goals become
your goals, not the other wayaround, and I think that's
important, and I think there aretoo many coaches that want to
take their athletes and and makethem conform to the coaches.
Goals Like this is what youneed to do, because that's what
the textbook says or the studiessay, versus like oh, this is a
hugely a fully formed individualwho has their own preferences
(25:45):
and ways they want to do things,and how can I work with them
and their goals to make thishappen?
Speaker 1 (26:15):
no-transcript them out into the grass and I say,
okay, do this.
And it's going to take 10minutes.
And I'm much more in line withthat because my background, I
mean, I basically lived in awrestling room or a gym for
about 20 years of my life.
Then I found the bike and thenI'm like, oh, this is great, and
(26:35):
I just don't want to be insideanymore, and that's a driving
force for me.
And I think, finally, anotherlayer to that is like giving
these broad pieces of advice andinformation to our listeners,
because it's like, oh, it justdepends, right, but we need to
give enough information so thatthey can make their own decision
and cut through the layers ofBS that are out there, saying
(26:57):
you need to do six days a weekin the gym for the results or
something.
It's like you don't right.
And if there's any, you know,if you need authority from any
sort of like influencer orperson on a podcast or something
like this, like you're gettingit here Stay away from the
weighted vests and thinkdifferently from strength versus
(27:18):
endurance.
They are separate, but if youweave it together, well, you get
great performance.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Exactly, exactly and and kind of like what you said
earlier, like with Aaron and thesame think about as, as
movement patterns, think aboutas like you don't have to be in
the gym doing these crazy things.
Just do a, do a version of asquat, do a version of a hinge,
do a version of a lunge, do aversion of push and a like,
strip it away.
Make it simple.
It doesn't have to becomplicated.
(27:42):
If you, if if you want to makeit complicated, you can and
there are plenty of ways to dothat, but it doesn't have to be.
I think people get this all ornothing attitude of it has to be
in a gym, it has to be withthis equipment.
It's like, no, it can be onyour lawn with a heavy
kettlebell or appropriatelyheavy kettlebell, and some
sunshine and some music and 10minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yep.
So, that is 100 percent it, andI and I would like to like kind
of end this podcast with thatspecific message to the
endurance athlete, because Ithink there's a lot of people
that are like that and I thinkto make the joke of, we are a
feeble strength athlete when wehave a lot of endurance, is it
again?
It doesn't take much to movethe needle in the way of gaining
(28:25):
strength for us as enduranceathletes.
So, um, sarah, to you, whatother resources can we give
athletes other than to say, like, make it real simple, do 10
minutes?
Here's a couple of routines andI'll I'll link to some routines
that I have for people to start.
But, like, what are some goodresources that, like you have
off the top of your head, or um,that that you use with your
(28:48):
athletes, that we couldrecommend?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh yeah, good question.
We've talked about this before.
Anything that the NSCA puts outis going to be good.
They have great studies.
A lot of it is more of, if it'smore of, the scholastic Some
people just want like, I don'twant it in a peer-reviewed study
, I want just the information.
I'd like to think that Iprovide decent information on
(29:12):
social media.
So folks like me, folks likeAaron, there are a lot of good
coaches out there.
I know Chris Lee out there.
There are some really reallygood strength coaches that work
with endurance athletes and theyunderstand the balance of
endurance work and strength workand how to pair them
beautifully, because there arepeople that are really good at
endurance sports and people thatare really good at strength but
(29:33):
they don't understand how theyintersect and how to make them
blend really well.
So I think those coaches thatdo a very good job of that are a
good place to start.
Yeah, how about yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah Well, I 100% agree with that.
I think in my resources linksI've got an article from Chris
Lee and I think that's either onTraining Peaks or somewhere
else.
But anyway, go into our shownotes or to trainrightcom
backslash podcast for thelanding page and you'll see
links in there with that articlein particular, as well as one
(30:09):
from UESCA as well, where theyhave a good guide of where to
start and I think, for theself-coached time crunch athlete
is you start with somethingthat is good, referred to by by,
by like Sarah or myself or likea good known coach, and you
just use trial and error, startlow, go slow and find a routine
(30:31):
that does work for you.
If you want to take it to thenext level, you work with
somebody like Sarah, for example, because I think that you use
even a totally separate platformwhen you're working with your
athletes.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I do.
I use a platform called PTdistinction that I load all of
their strength training on andrecord all the videos and
whatnot and tutorials for myathletes training on and record
all the videos and whatnot andtutorials for my athletes.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, yeah, so and so I think when you want, when you
want that kind of like higherlevel, let's make the gains,
let's weave that performanceelement in with like strength as
pertains to your sport.
I mean, you, you go withsomebody you know, like Sarah,
or you organize it yourself in avery high level, but I think,
like the low hanging fruit of,okay, I really need to start
strength again, or I I had astrength training program last
(31:15):
year that just like overdid it,which is very common in the
endurance athlete world Um,start to just a little bit more
trial and error.
Start with the resources we'reproviding and I would say, err
on the side of less, because wedo so much other work and
training in our sport that wedon't need a ton.
But if we find the right dosage, it goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Absolutely.
I would add to that too, forthose people that maybe aren't
as comfortable in the gym orlike the accountability, working
in person with a strength coachcan be helpful.
The caveat, the asterisk I willsay on that is please find
somebody that also understandsendurance sports.
They are out there because I'vehad many an athlete go to a
trainer that doesn't understandendurance sports and absolutely
(31:58):
destroys, like it destroys themin a in a joking way, but I mean
it's, it's.
It's all the plyos all day, allthe dynamic work, all the heavy
, heavy lifting to them.
They can't even do their longruns or any of their intensities
because their their legs aretrashed or they are exhausted.
Um, and there's a.
There are people thatunderstand how to do that
balance.
So find those coaches.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
That's, that's it.
And, yeah, you'll be destroyedfor you know that week or next
couple of weeks, but it'll payoff in the end.
Uh, if you go that deep, and Ithink to that end, I mean again,
we'll end with this.
It's just like think of thatstrength and endurance
separately, and there's going tobe a point where you let go of
the strength training stimulusin order to get the benefits of
(32:39):
that performance.
That we're talking about cominginto a key time period and I
think that that, if you takenothing else away from this
episode, it is that message thatI really want everybody to
receive.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And that's coming from two people that really love
strength.
It's okay to let it.
It's okay to let it go.
It's let it go.
It will come back to you.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I was just going to say that it will come back.
It will come back.
Oh, my God, we got to end there.
Sarah, thank you again for yourtime.
I always love talking with you,whether it's in person or
between two microphones.
Uh, which we should probablyjust call this podcast, and uh,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So thank you again for your time.
I really do appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
This has been lovely, as always.
Thanks for joining us on thetime crunch cyclist podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even more actualtraining advice, head over to
train rightcom backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
Each week you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
(33:41):
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance even if
you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches whomake up the team at CTS.
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
Now on to our show.
(00:53):
Welcome back, time Crunch fans.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford.
I'm back with CTS coach SarahScazzaro to talk about
performance benefits fromstrength training in endurance
sport, but we're going to take aslightly different angle on it,
because I know most of youlistening likely do some kind of
strength training already andyou know the benefits.
But how can you arrange yourtraining on a high level or like
(01:14):
on an annual level to make surethat you've got the performance
benefits and the freshness youneed going into that key race?
So, sarah, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thanks for having me back.
It's been so long.
It's been so long.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
In our last episode we talked about weighted vests,
sports specificity of trainingand kind of claimed things that
training stimulus do out therewhen it comes to fitness,
strength training and whatnot.
If you missed that episode,feel free to go back, but you
don't need that episode tounderstand what we're going to
talk about today, because todayis all about strength training
(01:53):
as it pertains to performance inendurance sport as well as just
like performance as a humanbeing.
So, Sarah, is it a fairassumption to say that probably
all of the athletes that youcoach do some kind of strength
training?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'd say a good 90, 95% of them, and if yeah, if
they're not doing it with me,they might be working in person
with a trainer.
Um, I have a, I have a few thatjust don't have, truly don't
have the time, which I thinkwe'll touch on in a bit, um, or
really don't want to, whichmakes my heart break a little
bit.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I will be honest, but you know, yes my heart goes on
but your heart, yeah, your heartshall go on, but I shall go on
I am very, very much so.
The same.
I would say 90, 95.
It's not a pure 100, but why?
Why do you have them do thatstrength training?
If they're an endurance, ultrarunning sport or gravel race or
(02:46):
something like this, why do theydo it at a high level?
What do you expect to gain fromit?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
durability, strength I mean I I look at my athletes
through the lens of they're notonly an athlete, they're a human
being and, especially, like mywomen, bone density.
We need bone density, we needmuscle, we need, you know, all
of these components thatstrength training can give, that
you don't necessarily get fromrunning itself.
You don't get the same stimulusthat makes you just a healthier
, more durable human, which thentranslates to me, I believe, to
(03:14):
a healthier, more durableathlete.
So it's kind of just like thisbeautiful symmetry there of each
one helps the other.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That's exactly it.
Of each one helps the other.
That's that's exactly it.
And, like I said in my intro,we're not going to spend a ton
of time trying to like sell thebenefits to people, because I
think the message is it's outthere on that but kind of
interestingly.
Um, you know we talk about inthis research project we saw xyz
.
Fun fact I did my own undergradresearch project when I was in
college and it was and it wasinvestigating the, the.
(03:47):
What was the exact title?
It was investigating theperformance improvements of
strength training and Olympicstyle weightlifting in endurance
athletes.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I did not know this about you.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, I will send it away.
But I mean I have my owncriticisms of the study design
and things like this.
But I mean what we did was timetrials before and after and we
had an eight week protocol wherewe used Olympic style
weightlifting, so power, cleansquat, I think we did a power
snatch and some other stuff.
I wrote the strength trainingprogram for it train them for
(04:20):
eight weeks and then freshenthem up and tested them and we
saw mixed results on performance.
Okay, mixed results.
Some people got faster, somepeople didn't change, some
people like didn't test againbecause they got busy and all
this kind of stuff.
We were using college professorsand a local triathlon group in
the lacrosse, wisconsin, and itwas super, super fun.
(04:43):
But one key takeaway I wanteverybody to to realize here is
the qualitative data that we gotfrom.
It was everybody who did thetraining said I felt better.
I felt better while doing mytraining, I felt better while
running, biking, I felt betterthroughout the day and I would
say that going through thatprocess is like seeing them in
(05:07):
the first two weeks versus thefinal two weeks.
They moved better at everythingthat we did, cause we did a lot
of like dynamic warmup typestuff as well, and like they
just moved better as as people.
So now the criticism is just,like you know, was six to eight
weeks long enough to see aperformance improvement in sport
, or is that performanceimprovement negligible because
(05:31):
it really came down to theaerobic development needed to do
these time trials that we'redoing and we won't get into that
.
But I think the key aspect ofif you scale that out over time,
or even if you take the factthat they felt better and they
moved better, now we're talkingabout the benefit of strength
training, at least one arm of it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Oh, absolutely, you know increased you know just
neuromuscularly increasedproprioception, increased
feelings of durability andstrength and being more
connected with your body,certain things we just don't get
on the bike or when we'rerunning and I know that's pretty
subjective of like I feelbetter.
You know, it's like people wantlike studies, like yeah, but
(06:11):
how much better did you get?
And it's like, well, it'sreally hard to measure all of
those little details, especiallylike I look at like strength
for ultra runners, how betterthey are navigating over rocky
terrain, how better they canbalance over going over uneven,
you know courses, and I justfeel like there's not only the
(06:31):
strength benefit of things, butjust feeling more comfortable,
confident and competent in yourbody is a benefit I don't think
a lot of people think about whenthey first start strength
training.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, I don't think they do either, but I I would.
I will still make the claimthat data is greater than
feelings, or greater and equalto feelings, and I, if you get
down to it, feeling it can stillbe a piece of data because it
is qualitative data.
With that as a launching pad,there is a way to measure the
improved performance benefit incycling and running, and we'll
(07:04):
get to some of those exampleshere in a minute.
But kind of coming back to itis like how do we do this, sarah
?
Like we do strength training toget all these benefits, but in
the previous episode I talkedabout strength is separate from
endurance.
So and it's very differentbecause of the way that we put
the stimulus, meaning we load ina very overloading sort of way.
(07:26):
Fun fact that I've spilled onthis podcast multiple times
before and people are going tobe like man, you talk about that
all the time, but you need agood reminder is that when you
do a jump, when you just likesquat down, reach and jump, the
power production that you do inthat movement is about five
times greater than what you cando on a, on your maximum effort,
(07:48):
sprinting on a bicycle.
Okay, the power production andforce production that you can do
.
Jumping and lifting your bodyoff of the earth is five times
greater than a maximum effortsprint, okay.
So people need to realize howdifferent that is Okay.
However, what we can do isoverload the body in a very
maximum way, in a very differentway that will then have
(08:10):
carryover so long as we're doingour sport Right, and then we'll
get the benefit there and someof these other benefits, just
like improving the integrity ofthe muscle, the quality of
movement and things like this.
So, sarah, I want to talk aboutthis extra stimulus.
At some point we're doing allthis training, building up to it
.
Building up to it.
If we don't change thattraining stimulus, will it be a
(08:37):
detriment when we come into ourkey race period, or should we
just keep on doing it in hopesthat it will help us through our
key race time period?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So to make sure I'm understanding your question,
you're asking if we continuedoing a certain like we're in a
strength training.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Maybe I'll take it from the top and what I want to
say is like okay, these two areseparate things the strength
training, the endurance training, and this training Strength
training is a lot more stressand a lot different stress than
what we need for the specificityof ultra running or cycling,
but this extra stress is goingto help us for those races.
So how do you balance that,weave that or take down this
(09:17):
stimulus or stressor coming intothis phase of racing?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I work on the principle andmaybe you do do this as well as
least specific to most specific.
So in the beginning of a seasonwe're as far away from let's
say we're as far away from anevent as we're going to be in in
terms of when we startpreparing for it.
So let's say we're six monthsout for a hundred, although one
could argue we're preparing forthese things over years and
cumulative training, right.
(09:44):
But you got this.
You sign up for a race, you'vegot the race on the calendar and
we're pretty far out from it.
So what we do in the weightroom is going to have, in the
moment, minimal impact on thetraining for that event.
I would like to argue that inthe long run it has very big
impact because what we'rebuilding early we can call upon
to utilize later.
But in terms of how it's goingto air, quotes negatively impact
the training, ie, you're goingto have excess fatigue, you're
(10:06):
not going to be able to hitcertain workouts, it's not.
It's going to be of a big of aconcern at that point.
As we get closer to an event orwe get into, like, peak season,
then we do have to startchanging, whether it's the
volume or the intensity, andusually as we get closer to an
event it's going to be a bit ofthe volume that I'm changing.
(10:29):
We like to keep some of thatintensity but we just kind of
take off the volume a bit.
I don't like to change too muchin general from an intensity
standpoint because people getreally comfortable and used to
that and that stimulus and thenyou pull that away from them
very quickly and it can be morejarring and you know.
So it's like we like to keepthat.
But overall, how much we'reloading the system.
So I refer to volume, that is,how much, how many reps and sets
(10:50):
.
So how many, how much,technically, how much weight
they're lifting over a session,because reps by sets, by weight
lifted, um, kind of figuring outthe volume there, uh, but the
intensity will be very similarand I think it it's.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I mean, clearly our audience should realize that
when you get it like a truenerdy strength uh coach that
loves to quantify, like all thethings, we have the same things
like, uh, volume, load and likeduration and all these
quantifiable things in the gymthat you can kind of see in your
(11:23):
brain and measure over time, sovery similar to our, like our
cycling, volume, intensity,frequency, running, same, all
this kind of stuff.
So a good coach will map thatout in whatever modality that
she or he is using.
And that's really what we'retalking about, I think from.
To make it as simple aspossible is, if you do strength
(11:44):
training to help improve yourperformance, you've got to take
it down about four to six weeks,like two to three times a week
leading up.
If I just if I take it and I gozero, which I never do because
(12:09):
of what you just said, and Inever really like to take it
further away because it it doessomething to the psyche as well
as the muscles.
So you need to have amaintenance period in there.
However, if we just take itdown to maintenance, I should
still get those benefits for atleast four to six weeks, if not
maybe a little longer, dependingon athlete phenotype, muscle
type, the history of all thethings, but like would you agree
(12:30):
?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
oh yeah, absolutely.
And even in that case, um, aswe get closer to like event like
that final four to six weeksand you know stress is getting
higher with the volume of theiractual main sport training,
we'll call it, whether that'scycling or running, life stuff
happens recovery.
I will always prioritize thosethings in that key area and if
that means we have to reduce thestrength from three to two or
(12:52):
two to one, you can maintaineasily four to six weeks, even
off that one session if you hadto.
So I think that's important forpeople to realize that you know
like, oh God, I feel so bad, Ihave to cut back on my strength
and it's like you're not goingto lose anything.
We've got to prioritize thisevent and if that comes, if
strength comes at the or ifrecovery comes at the cost of
(13:12):
your strength, we have to startthe hierarchy of what's
important.
But yeah, back to your question.
I'm kind of getting off therails there.
But back to your question.
Yes, that the rails there.
But back to your question.
Yes, that four to six weeks isthat critical period we may not
change.
So again, this is very athletespecific.
I work with everything fromfirst time strength people to
some of the pros and soexperience and background with
(13:33):
strength plays a lot into this.
So with some folks we're notchanging necessarily the
exercises too too much, but thevolume of them, the placement
and sets, you know what, whatelse we're doing, that those
types of things, um, we're notgoing from.
You know we're not changingthings too significantly, but um
, yeah, we do have to to adjustto account for those final four
(13:56):
to six weeks.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, and I think for listeners the main message is
like if you do strength trainingand if you don't really cycle
the training or change too much,or if you, if you're resistant
to it coming in cause you don'twant to lose those gains, it's
like let go because you're fine.
Yeah, number one, you're fine.
Number two you'll capitalize ona super compensation effect,
(14:18):
which is you have all this.
You got to think about anathlete like where they're going
, kind of like what Sarah wassaying is just like the history
of them, where they're going inthe long run.
And the way I think as a coachis like things cycle up and
cycle down, right, so as we'regetting, you know, momentum and
strength in the gym, uh, wemight lose it in the bike and
then we gain it in the bike andwe might lose it in the gym,
(14:40):
completely fine.
But there's this little timeperiod where we can have a super
compensation effect and for mycrit racers, mountain bike
racers, people that have a lotof anaerobic contribution to the
, to the race themselves, thatfour to six weeks I usually, if
I do strength training well withthem leading up to it, take it
off and they just go and they dotheir group rides or races or I
(15:02):
tell them to go do a sprint.
I usually get a an extra two to3% when I just take the, the
gym stress off itself because,think about it, it is a stressor
If I take it away and I wasstressing them properly.
There is that adaptation effect, super compensation effect,
that goes into a good taper andall this kind of stuff and I
just I get it at that right timeand that's typically what I see
(15:24):
when I do it.
Well, 100.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And that's the key to doing it well and that's part
of the art and science of itright Of knowing that particular
athlete and knowing when tostart pulling back and and how.
You know again, it's strengthtraining is a stressor and it
has to be in order to get theadaptations we want.
So if you're doing it right,it's a stressor and at certain
points in an athlete's seasonthat stress becomes more of a
(15:52):
liability I hate to use thatword, but it becomes more of a
risk than a gain proposition.
So we have to pull back alittle bit, a to be able to have
them recovered and be able toperform well, but also, like you
mentioned, to actually even getthat super compensation.
So we're actually getting abonus from it.
So people automatically think Imean I have athletes that I'll
go around and around withbecause they're like I need to.
I don't want to stop strengthtraining.
(16:16):
You know to me, you know it'slike okay, but know that if you
do, you're not going to losefitness.
In fact, we might actuallystart to get some benefits from
this.
That's it which blows their mindbecause they think well, if I
stop doing the thing, I stopgetting the benefits, and that's
not how this works.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Exactly and I think it's one thing that helped me
realize that was actually from,like, the fatigue associated
with training Coley Moore, who'sbeen on this podcast before he.
He's got a nice joke.
He always says people they getcomfortable with this cloak of
fatigue.
where I said just like do moretraining, do more training.
I feel this way and they'relike have this cloak of fatigue
(16:51):
and I feel good and normal.
Let's remove that cloak,freshen up and go.
And it can be from running, itcan be from cycling, but it can
also be from strength training,where you're staying suppressed
in order for a gain eventually.
So now you got to determinewhen you want that gain to
happen.
Take away the stress.
We got four to six weeks usually, but that with an asterisk too,
(17:12):
because I think the reality is,with my athletes who are doing
a lot of strength training, Idon't just take it off for four
to six weeks, I take that offfor a key time period, but then
we're probably rolling inmaintenance mode for, you know,
four months or so, and then wehave a transition period and
then we kind of like start backup in like off season and in
something like this.
(17:32):
So I think, like, withoutgetting into a whole annual
planning kind of saga, I thinkwhat I've heard and seen from
athletes out there as well I'vedone it well and I've not done
it well but from some of theself-coached athletes, it's like
they think they need to bedoing strength training year
round to get all those benefitsand I really want them to
challenge that thought and tocycle the training and to take
(17:54):
it off during those key timeperiods, because you're only
going to get more benefit.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah, from a performance standpoint, which is
what we're talking about here.
You know, obviously and there'sthe part of me that argues like
, oh, but strength training isgood year round because of who
we are.
But, yes, we can recognize thatbut also see its place in
performance and preparation forevents and how we have to bleed
it off and pull back and then weknow that after the event and
after recovery we can come rightback at it in an appropriate
(18:20):
way at the appropriate time.
I think, just like our normalendurance sport training, if you
do something nonstop year roundand never give yourself a break
, you are going to get mentaland physical burnout.
It's not sustainable.
So I think there's a pointwhere you kind of like step back
from something and then you'rethat much more excited and ready
and prepared to do it when it'stime to come back to it.
(18:43):
Whatever you and your coach oryou personally decide that
timing is, for some people it'sa bigger break than others.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yep, yep, that's it.
And I think too, like just forself-coach athletes wanting a
little bit more concrete stuffhere is you know, if you're
going to do strength training,probably you know three or four
times where you're touchingweights and stressing your body
three times to four times a weekin this kind of like build
phase and that can come with anasterisk.
(19:10):
But I think, when you're, whenyou're in that season sort of
stuff, when you're like trainingand or training heavily, or
racing or something like thisAaron Carson, who's been on this
podcast before, she trainsmovement versus muscle.
Uh, that's her thing and Iwould highly agree with her on
this is like now we reducefrequency to two or two and a
(19:31):
half times per week and wereduce load, quite a bit Um, and
it's it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
uh God, the people that could have the bandwidth to
do four days a week of strengthand high level training and
recovery, and it's just it.
(19:57):
It's too much.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
It's a lot and if I do have people doing four, it's
usually because I've reduced theendurance training component
right To to offer more time andand I think for a time crunched
athlete that's like listening tothis where it's like I'm lucky
to get like five hours a week ormaybe like four days of actual
training per week.
How do you handle somebody whowants to do their sport and
(20:22):
strength training and they onlygot four, six hours to do it?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah.
So, like we've talked aboutbefore, that kind of a hierarchy
of training and training, andif their event requires so much
training in order to do itoptimally and perform the best
that they can get to that startline, we're going to prioritize
the main sport, of course,especially in like that peak
session, and that might meanwhere you get two or one days of
strength training a week.
(20:47):
For some people that meansthat's when we start to bleed it
off, when we pull it backbecause we just they either
don't have the time to do thetraining or it comes at the cost
of well, I could ride or Icould lift, and dollars to
donuts you're going to say, hey,I'd rather have you ride, in
your case, with your goal, withwhere you are.
I would say the same with myrunning athletes and or have the
(21:09):
time, but they don't have therecovery.
So they've got the time to dothe two days of strength a week,
but they don't have the time tothen fully recover, to do the,
to do their rides or their runs,because that's cutting into
recovery time.
And if, if their main sport iscoming at a cost of the strength
, then that's when we have tostart really adjusting sometimes
.
Sometimes that's simply thatcould even be a shorter session,
(21:36):
like, hey, we're going to hitjust two or three lifts just to
kind of keep you, you know,because you love it.
I've got athletes.
I'm one of them.
I love to strength train, Iwant to be in the gym, I love
doing it and, okay, well, let'sstructure this in a way that is
proactive and productive, versusputting you in a hole.
Um, so there's that too.
It doesn't have to be a 90minute session.
None of my sessions are 90minutes, by the way, don't do
(21:56):
bodybuilding training here, um,but yeah, how about yourself?
Do you find kind of similar?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
It's similar, for sure, I think, for a time
crunched athlete.
It's just where it gets likenuanced, individualized, and I
would argue like like on onehand over here and then on the
other hand over here, like twoseparate things.
It's like strength trainingyear round is really beneficial
for a time crunched athletebecause it's going to make them
a healthier like human.
But then it's like, oh well, wecan get rid of the strength
(22:25):
training component and maximizethe volume, right.
But I to your point, I do thatwhen they're coming up like uh,
I gave you the example earlierit's like somebody coming up to
the triple bypass and it's like,if I got an extra 20 or 30
minutes, we need to put that onthe bike, yeah, and like skip
strength training.
But one one quick hack that I dowith time crunch people during
that uh like time period wherewe just need to like maintain
(22:46):
somewhat, is I do push-ups, uh,sit sit-ups or like, uh, like in
air squats, you know that kindof thing, or wall sits, and it's
just like before they jump onthe bike, it's maybe like five
or seven minutes of just likemoving and stimulating the
muscles and then they go, and Iusually do it before because
they tend to feel better whenthey ride, cause they're like
(23:07):
activated and warmed up and gone, versus like if they a wall sit
after they ride.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
They last half as long because the muscles are
already tired and if they'redoing the wall sit before,
they're probably they'reactually you're seeing a good
response in their, their ridetime, versus you're getting a
poor air quotes, poor responsein the wall sit after.
So it's like doing it beforefor that particular athlete.
You get the benefit of both.
Um, I know I have some athletesthat were even scaling back to
(23:31):
some form of a contrast trainwith a plyo and an isometric
exercise that we do in certainpoints where they don't have a
lot of time.
But there's very especiallywith isometrics.
There's very little cost andsome great gain in terms of how
it's going to impact theirtraining.
And to your point earlier, Ilove giving these broad like oh,
(23:52):
this is what I do, but it is,and I'm sure you're the same way
.
It is.
So athlete, individual focused.
I will have athletes trainingfor the same events.
Their training looks nothingsimilar.
Their strength training looksnothing alike.
How they handle the loading,their life, everything outside
of their training impacts theirtraining.
And so recovery time, jobstress, life everything outside
(24:13):
of their training impacts theirtraining, you know.
And so recovery time, jobstress, life, access to
equipment, priorities, you knowI've got some athletes that are
like, yeah, I want to do this100 miler, but I also really
want to.
You know, my bone density isvery important to me and I'd
rather come to the event.
I'm not looking to perform,like you know, top 10 or
anything.
I want to to finish, but I alsowant to be really strong and I
love my strength training.
Yeah, they get to that's.
(24:34):
That's they get to prioritizeand decide how we shape their
training.
I don't get to tell them likeno, this isn't important for you
, so, and vice versa too,because then I'll get.
If we talked about earlier, westarted.
I've got that small percentageof athletes that are like zero
interest in strength training.
Yeah, my soul dies, like I saida little.
Every time they say that justso you all know.
(24:55):
But I have to respect that.
I can try to tell them thebenefits and show them the
benefits, but at the end of theday they get to make the
decision of what they want inpart of their training yeah,
yeah, I mean, it's theirtraining, it's their, and their
goals become my goals, so tospeak, and it's up to me to
guide them in the rightdirection.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Say, yeah, strength training can improve you a
little bit, but if you don'twant to do it, okay, cool.
It's like somebody trying toget me to do an eight-hour ride.
I'm just not going to do it atthis point.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, you said it perfectly their goals become
your goals, not the other wayaround, and I think that's
important, and I think there aretoo many coaches that want to
take their athletes and and makethem conform to the coaches.
Goals Like this is what youneed to do, because that's what
the textbook says or the studiessay, versus like oh, this is a
hugely a fully formed individualwho has their own preferences
(25:45):
and ways they want to do things,and how can I work with them
and their goals to make thishappen?
Speaker 1 (26:15):
no-transcript them out into the grass and I say,
okay, do this.
And it's going to take 10minutes.
And I'm much more in line withthat because my background, I
mean, I basically lived in awrestling room or a gym for
about 20 years of my life.
Then I found the bike and thenI'm like, oh, this is great, and
(26:35):
I just don't want to be insideanymore, and that's a driving
force for me.
And I think, finally, anotherlayer to that is like giving
these broad pieces of advice andinformation to our listeners,
because it's like, oh, it justdepends, right, but we need to
give enough information so thatthey can make their own decision
and cut through the layers ofBS that are out there, saying
(26:57):
you need to do six days a weekin the gym for the results or
something.
It's like you don't right.
And if there's any, you know,if you need authority from any
sort of like influencer orperson on a podcast or something
like this, like you're gettingit here Stay away from the
weighted vests and thinkdifferently from strength versus
(27:18):
endurance.
They are separate, but if youweave it together, well, you get
great performance.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Exactly, exactly and and kind of like what you said
earlier, like with Aaron and thesame think about as, as
movement patterns, think aboutas like you don't have to be in
the gym doing these crazy things.
Just do a, do a version of asquat, do a version of a hinge,
do a version of a lunge, do aversion of push and a like,
strip it away.
Make it simple.
It doesn't have to becomplicated.
(27:42):
If you, if if you want to makeit complicated, you can and
there are plenty of ways to dothat, but it doesn't have to be.
I think people get this all ornothing attitude of it has to be
in a gym, it has to be withthis equipment.
It's like, no, it can be onyour lawn with a heavy
kettlebell or appropriatelyheavy kettlebell, and some
sunshine and some music and 10minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yep.
So, that is 100 percent it, andI and I would like to like kind
of end this podcast with thatspecific message to the
endurance athlete, because Ithink there's a lot of people
that are like that and I thinkto make the joke of, we are a
feeble strength athlete when wehave a lot of endurance, is it
again?
It doesn't take much to movethe needle in the way of gaining
(28:25):
strength for us as enduranceathletes.
So, um, sarah, to you, whatother resources can we give
athletes other than to say, like, make it real simple, do 10
minutes?
Here's a couple of routines andI'll I'll link to some routines
that I have for people to start.
But, like, what are some goodresources that, like you have
off the top of your head, or um,that that you use with your
(28:48):
athletes, that we couldrecommend?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh yeah, good question.
We've talked about this before.
Anything that the NSCA puts outis going to be good.
They have great studies.
A lot of it is more of, if it'smore of, the scholastic Some
people just want like, I don'twant it in a peer-reviewed study
, I want just the information.
I'd like to think that Iprovide decent information on
(29:12):
social media.
So folks like me, folks likeAaron, there are a lot of good
coaches out there.
I know Chris Lee out there.
There are some really reallygood strength coaches that work
with endurance athletes and theyunderstand the balance of
endurance work and strength workand how to pair them
beautifully, because there arepeople that are really good at
endurance sports and people thatare really good at strength but
(29:33):
they don't understand how theyintersect and how to make them
blend really well.
So I think those coaches thatdo a very good job of that are a
good place to start.
Yeah, how about yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah Well, I 100% agree with that.
I think in my resources linksI've got an article from Chris
Lee and I think that's either onTraining Peaks or somewhere
else.
But anyway, go into our shownotes or to trainrightcom
backslash podcast for thelanding page and you'll see
links in there with that articlein particular, as well as one
(30:09):
from UESCA as well, where theyhave a good guide of where to
start and I think, for theself-coached time crunch athlete
is you start with somethingthat is good, referred to by by,
by like Sarah or myself or likea good known coach, and you
just use trial and error, startlow, go slow and find a routine
(30:31):
that does work for you.
If you want to take it to thenext level, you work with
somebody like Sarah, for example, because I think that you use
even a totally separate platformwhen you're working with your
athletes.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I do.
I use a platform called PTdistinction that I load all of
their strength training on andrecord all the videos and
whatnot and tutorials for myathletes training on and record
all the videos and whatnot andtutorials for my athletes.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, yeah, so and so I think when you want, when you
want that kind of like higherlevel, let's make the gains,
let's weave that performanceelement in with like strength as
pertains to your sport.
I mean, you, you go withsomebody you know, like Sarah,
or you organize it yourself in avery high level, but I think,
like the low hanging fruit of,okay, I really need to start
strength again, or I I had astrength training program last
(31:15):
year that just like overdid it,which is very common in the
endurance athlete world Um,start to just a little bit more
trial and error.
Start with the resources we'reproviding and I would say, err
on the side of less, because wedo so much other work and
training in our sport that wedon't need a ton.
But if we find the right dosage, it goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Absolutely.
I would add to that too, forthose people that maybe aren't
as comfortable in the gym orlike the accountability, working
in person with a strength coachcan be helpful.
The caveat, the asterisk I willsay on that is please find
somebody that also understandsendurance sports.
They are out there because I'vehad many an athlete go to a
trainer that doesn't understandendurance sports and absolutely
(31:58):
destroys, like it destroys themin a in a joking way, but I mean
it's, it's.
It's all the plyos all day, allthe dynamic work, all the heavy
, heavy lifting to them.
They can't even do their longruns or any of their intensities
because their their legs aretrashed or they are exhausted.
Um, and there's a.
There are people thatunderstand how to do that
balance.
So find those coaches.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
That's, that's it.
And, yeah, you'll be destroyedfor you know that week or next
couple of weeks, but it'll payoff in the end.
Uh, if you go that deep, and Ithink to that end, I mean again,
we'll end with this.
It's just like think of thatstrength and endurance
separately, and there's going tobe a point where you let go of
the strength training stimulusin order to get the benefits of
(32:39):
that performance.
That we're talking about cominginto a key time period and I
think that that, if you takenothing else away from this
episode, it is that message thatI really want everybody to
receive.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And that's coming from two people that really love
strength.
It's okay to let it.
It's okay to let it go.
It's let it go.
It will come back to you.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I was just going to say that it will come back.
It will come back.
Oh, my God, we got to end there.
Sarah, thank you again for yourtime.
I always love talking with you,whether it's in person or
between two microphones.
Uh, which we should probablyjust call this podcast, and uh,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
So thank you again for your time.
I really do appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
This has been lovely, as always.
Thanks for joining us on thetime crunch cyclist podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even more actualtraining advice, head over to
train rightcom backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
Each week you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
(33:41):
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.