Training, Strategy, and Demands of Timed-Segment Racing vs. Traditional Racing

OVERVIEW
Timed-segment racing might be your new favorite competition format! Coach Adam Pulford and CTS Athlete Camilo Lopez discuss their experiences at Gran Fondo Maryland, which featured five timed-segments rather than a start-to-finish competition format. They reveal the key differences in effort level, physical demands, strategies, cycling skills, and even nutrition and pacing between timed-segment racing and start-to-finish racing. 

NOTE: The 2026 Gran Fondo National Series Calendar is live and registration is open for all six of their annual events, including the 2026 Gran Fondo National Championships.

Topics Covered In This Episode:

• Demands of timed-segment racing
• Demands of traditional start-to-finish racing
• Race-winning strategies for timed-segment competitions
• Why timed-segment races are more inclusive for many riders
• Training for success in timed-segment racing
• Training for success in traditional start-to-finish racing

Resources

• Gran Fondo National Series: granfondonationalseries.com
• Gran Fondue: BDF Grand Fondue | Dirty Kitten Gravel
• TCC Durability Podcast

Guest Bio:

Camilo Lopez is an accomplished cyclist and triathlete and winner of the 2025 Gran Fondo Maryland Gran Route competition. He is a CTS Athlete coached by Adam Pulford.

HOST
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
From the team at CTS, this is the Time Crunch
Cyclist Podcast, our showdedicated to answering your
training questions and providingactionable advice to help you
improve your performance, evenif you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, Coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches who makeup the team at CTS.

(00:27):
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
other coaches, and experts inthe field to provide you with
the practical ways to get themost out of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now, on to our show.

(00:51):
Is time segment racing harderthan traditional start line to
finish line bike racing?
I raced the USA Cycling GrandFondo National Championships
back in September.
It had like five time segmentson an 87-mile course and about
9,000 feet of climbing.
I was completely worked over bythe finish.

(01:13):
It's just a different ball game.
And maybe time segment grandfondos are something that you
should put on your racing radarif you want a new challenge or
if you haven't considered itbefore.
Welcome back, Time Crunch fans.
I'm your host, Coach AdamPulford, and today we're going
to discuss the differences inperformance demands between
Masters Road Racing and Fondo orsegment racing formats, and the

(01:38):
insights may surprise you.
Along with me to unpack all ofthis is Camilo Lopez, Masters
Racer and the 2025 MarylandGrand Fondo champion in the 4045
to 54 age group.
Camilo, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
Thank you, Ian.
It's a pleasure to be here withyou today to discuss this.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
Yes, yeah, it totally is.
Uh full disclosure, Camilo is uhone of my best friends here in
the DMV area.
We ride together all the time.
We talk a lot of bull crap backand forth, and we ride long
miles and uh drink a lot ofcoffee.
So uh I'm very uh good friendswith Camilo, uh, but everybody
listening is not.

(02:19):
So, Camilo, could you tell ourlisteners a bit more about
yourself?
Like what do you do for work?
Uh tell us about your family andhow you got into this whole
endurance goofy thing.

SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
Of course I'm originally from Colombia.
I've been riding bikes all mylife, really.
Started with mountain bikingback in Colombia.
Then I picked up, I moved to theUS for school.
I picked up rock climbing, rockclimbing for many years, always
kept cycling in the side.
And in 2013, I started doingtriathlons, got really into it.

(02:51):
And the piece that I enjoyed themost was the bike.
I always favored the bike,looked forward to riding the
bike, so I realized I shouldjust bike.
And um moved into cycling in2018 only cycling, and and I've
been riding and and and racingsince uh different types of of
um events, uh gravel, um roadraces, some crits, and um some

(03:17):
mountain biking too.
So so pretty much all around.
I have a full-time job, I workin a bank, I have two kids.
So I one is 16 and the other oneis is 10.
Um so I do have uh timeconstraints for training and and
and and things uh related tocycling, but but I find time and
and I'm pretty motivated and Iget to to cycle with my friends

(03:40):
like you, and and and I have ablast.
So yeah, that's my mybackground.

SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh to put some context, somemountain biking uh Camilo has
done the Cape Epic and um hasprevailed through that as well
as some other uh prettychallenging things.
But yeah, in that way, you know,it I I've talked about being
time crunched and time rich.
And I think a lot of us, youknow, we kind of go back and
forth between these timeconstraints in our life where we

(04:08):
are, you know, short on time,we're traveling, we just can't
ride for a week or somethinglike that.
And then other times we movestuff around in our schedule, we
communicate with uh like ourfamily and say, you know, we're
going long um on Friday orSaturday.
And when I when I tell Kristenthat I'm riding with Camilo and
we say it should be about fourhours, she goes, Okay, I'll see
you at sunset.
So that's that's about how itworks around here.

(04:31):
Uh but Camilo, this is apleasure.
Um after the Maryland GrandFondo race, I I mean, I was I
was completely shelled, like Isaid, and we were talking about
it, and we were just like goingback and forth about like, man,
this was crazy compared to likesome of the masters level uh
races that that we've beendoing, but crazy in a different
way.
So let's let's give a backdrop,like very quick summary of how

(04:54):
these two types of races aredifferent.
And and I should say, and wetalked at noon on our on our
group ride about how we need tofocus on uh like traditional
masters racing because there'scategories there.
Um it's it's start line tofinish line, but it's different
than crits, it's different thanjunior racing, who you know who
you're racing, and of course,like professional racing.

(05:15):
So let's just we'll keep it kindof focused on like masters road
racing.
And there we have mass startscategories, like I said, and
sometimes you don't you don'tknow who's in your category,
like you don't know exactly whoyou're racing, but you're racing
the whole time, and the firstone over the start line, or
sorry, the first one over thefinish line wins.
So uh you know I mean thatsounds very obvious, but

(05:38):
anything that you want to add touh just the the quick background
of like the the master's roadracing context and how we're
gonna compare it to the thesegment racing.

SPEAKER_02 (05:49):
The master's road racing, it's simpler.
You know, you know that you needto cross the finish line first
or in the best position, andthat's your position.
That is not true in the segmentracing.
It's it's segments, and thesegments are separated, could be
they could be separated by a fewmiles or long miles.
So you never know where you areuntil you finish.
In a normal road race, youpretty much know where you

(06:12):
finish.
So a lot more tactics in thesegment racing, more things to
to consider in that regard.
So so that's how I would saythey're different, at least in
how you approach them.
But um a lot of similaritiestoo, which we're gonna uh dig in
later.
And um usually segment or or atleast the the grand fondos that

(06:37):
I've done that are segmentracing, they they tend to be
longer events, you know, 80miles plus.
Uh well, road racing, master'sroad racing, at least in this
area, tends to be 50-60 miles.
On as much.
So shorter distances.
The um unfortunately, the thelonger road races in in this

(06:59):
region at least have have um notprevailed after after COVID,
they never came back.
So, or few came back, or most ofthem came back as gravel events,
or uh the whole landscapechanged.
So if you like doing longerevents, these timed grand fondos
are a good uh venue for that.

SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's a good point, and
we'll get into some of thoselike performance determinants
here in in a second, but I thinkthat that is crucial kind of to
it.
Is like if you're like me andCamilo who prevail at longer
stuff, less of a sprint, uh, youknow, of a fondo or gravel, you
know, we're we're gonna usuallyperform better um in that way,
right?
And with the fondo or segmentracing, um, you know, it's also

(07:41):
a mass start, but it startsneutral.
Some masters road race will havea short neutral.
Is it really neutral?
That's always the question.
Um, but again, you have the massstart, you have the each
categories.
It's also like really confusing,like who's who, what's what, all
that kind of thing.
So there's some similaritiesthere, but then the racing uh
for the segments um justthemselves.

(08:03):
So to put some context, is youroll out, it's neutral.
Um, you blast it hard for fouror five times, whatever the
segments are, and you'reregrouping along the way.
Uh, you're you're stopping ataid stations, you're you're kind
of like laughing and makingjokes, uh, you're going to the
bathroom.
Like it is very, very chill inbetween the segments.
But it is also like, yeah, Idon't know, DEF CON one during

(08:27):
the segments.
Like it is, like I I hit some ofmy peak powers of all time this
year, not gonna lie.
And I am just like, why are wegoing so hard right now?
Like blew my blew my mind.
Like I never go that hard um inin masters racing unless I have
to.
And and I and I tell my athletesthis uh all the time.
I'm like, do as little as ittakes to win in in a road race,

(08:50):
right?
Because we're conserving, we'redrafting, we're being efficient.
And if you're there at the righttime, maybe it's just a little
uh like you know, pop sprintaround the corner, I win, right?
Sometimes you need to completelygut yourself because you you
made the break, you went solo.
Maybe it's like Camilo atPoolsville a couple years ago,
that's what he did, uh, wentsolo all the way to the victory,

(09:11):
and and he went very hard onthat one.
So the the contrasts are verydifferent.
And I think, like in true likemasters racing, there's there's
more artistry to it, there'smore feel to it.
There's the drafting, you'rereading the people, you're
reading your competition, andagain, like uh being efficient

(09:31):
is crucial during these fondoand time segment races.
You you're not even thinkingabout the next segment.
You are basically just burningthe ships.
Is that right?
Correct.
Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
In in uh in road racing, you have to be paying
attention the whole time, youhave to be on the whole time,
even though the pace, especiallyin masters racers, racing in
this area, there's a lot ofnegative racing.
It's like like like kind of likeeasy, cover a move, easy, easy,
easy, and then a sprint.
Some go like that, and thensometimes I I've come from

(10:05):
masters races here, and I go wayharder in a group, right?
Right.
So it even though it was a race,I didn't really, there was not a
lot of racing.
So that is not true in the inthe segment type of racing, when
you're in the segment, it's allout, and you're racing.
So so in in that regard, it it'sdifferent, you know.

(10:29):
Like in a road race, you neverknow.
Uh now there's some other roadraces that are absolutely super
hard, the whole pace, but itdepends on the group, it depends
on on who shows up and thedynamics of that particular
race.
In the segment racing, it'salways hard.
In the segment, you're you knowyou're gonna go hard, and you
should go hard.
Even if you drop people, youkeep going.

(10:50):
You don't you don't coast, youdon't conserve.
You go all out because you wantto get the maximum amount of
time in that segment.
And to to be clear in this one,is you have, let's say, the the
race we just did with theRamfondo Marion.
Yeah, it's five segments.
Each segment is timedindividually, and at the end,

(11:13):
your time is the cumulativesummatory of times from the five
segments.
So you're incentivized into getas much time as you can in
between each segment.
Even if you dropped everybody,you have an incentive to like go
all out.
In a road race, if you have 50miles ahead and suddenly you
know you have a 10-second gap,you're not incentivized into

(11:36):
keep you know yourself at VO2for 10 seconds because you're
gonna get caught and you'regonna get out sprinted.
So a lot more tactic strategy ina road race.
And we'll discuss this later onsome tactics in the Grand Fondo,
but but it's it's different theway you would race them, for

(11:57):
sure.

SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Yep, yep, yeah, exactly.
And just a little bit ofbackground on the the Grand
Fondo National Series.
Um, it's it's organized by uh Imean it the name of that company
is Grand Fondo National Series,and it's used this time segment
competition format since like uh2012, I think.
And the format it is becomingmore popular among fondos and

(12:19):
gravel races, even um in the USbecause it's generally more
inclusive.
Um you know, everybody anybodycan show up, you can go hard
even if you're not gonna go forthe win, right?
It's less intimidating.
Um, I I think oftentimes roadracing uh don't need to get into
the culture of that, but it canbe a little uh off-putting for
somebody just like getting intoit, especially if you don't have

(12:40):
friends and kind of like aculture or group to roll up to
the race with and and understandthe layers of of racing and and
um every everything that goes onwith it.
Um and I think oftentimes thethe segment style or format that
we're talking about, it's easierto integrate into communities uh
across the nation because youdon't have to close down roads

(13:02):
or or have road enclosures orsomething like this.
It's a little bit more like uhlike the gravel scene where uh
you know we release the route,here it is, follow it along,
stay safe on the roads, thatkind of thing.
So again, it's gaining tractionhere.
And uh Oatroot had uh had donethat before in in the United
States.
And I remember this might goback to like 2010 or 2012.

(13:23):
Um they had some it was amazinguh because you you get these
epic, huge rides, you go hard inbetween, you find friends and
you ride along the way.
So overall, like I'm a bigproponent of this this style of
of racing or events, but I'venever uh I've never gone this
deep before, which which finallyhas got me thinking about all of

(13:44):
this, which is why we're herewith the podcast.
Um so with that backdrop,Camilo, and we're kind of going
along here because we'restorytelling as well as getting
into the juicy details ofphysiology.
Let's talk about the performancedemands of each of these things,
masters road racing, and thenthe Fondo segment uh style
racing.
So we've already talked on themaster style road racing being

(14:06):
much more tactical throughoutthe entire race, drafting and
efficiency prevail, uh pacingfrom start to finish.
You need to titrate thoseefforts based on the
gamification of what's going onin the race.
And there's also limited feedingopportunities.
You know, we we were we didn'ttalk about nutrition just yet,
but like really it's like howmuch can I bring on my person

(14:27):
and in my bottles and uheffectively uh drain the tank uh
uh you know, with what I canget.
Sometimes you can get a feed,but not all the time, right?
So that's part of the strategyas well.
And then uh the coursedependent, like you can have a
big FTP and that's helpful, butthe sprintability is actually
very crucial for most respectaround here anyway, um, that

(14:51):
doesn't have huge hill climbs,but that sprintability is
crucial if you want to breakaway or win um something.
Would you agree?
100%.

SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
100% in in masters racing, especially in this
particular area, uh the which isthe mid-Atlantic region near
Washington, DC, in thisparticular area, I would say
having a good sprint is key toto win races.
Well, in the Grand Fondo, uh Imean it's it's important to have
it, but I I would say not onetime I've won this race twice

(15:26):
and and not because I'msprinting.
I'm not particularly good atsprinting.
So the the sprinting ability isis a lot it's muted in in in in
segment racing, while in inmaster's racing it's critical, I
would say.

SPEAKER_00 (15:42):
So it's it's critical.
And you know, some people say,well, I live in Colorado or
California where we have thesebig hill climbs.
Um, sure, and that's where bigFTP again, it's a very helpful
and might be critical.
It's course dependent, but youstill need that sprint at the
end, right?
So then we get into the twoother things which I think are
are crucial and essential, arepowerful repeatability in

(16:06):
Masters Racing and durability.
So can you perform late in thegame, whether that's a sprint or
a five-minute effort orsomething like that.
So big FTP, helpful, notcrucial, sprint, crucial, uh
powerful repeatability, crucialdurability, essential.
Now with the fondo and segments,big FTP crucial.

SPEAKER_02 (16:29):
No, no, I would say VO2 max.
I would say I would saydepending on depending on the on
the distance of the segment.
Obviously, you need to be wewere talking about this today at
midday, and it's obviously youneed to be to to succeed in
either, you have to be a solidrider.
You you have to have an engine,for sure.

(16:50):
In in both.
So if some segments are shortand not necessarily hilly, and
some are really hilly, and thendefinitely your your watts per

(17:11):
kilo are crucial.
In a road race, the way you yourace being in the right time at
the right moment, covering theright move and and conserving
energy might be you you can getaway and win a race, effectively
being a uh a weaker rider thanseveral of the people in the in

(17:35):
the in the Peloton.
If you're smart, you can win therace.
You don't need to be thestrongest, you need to be smart.
In sec in segment racing, Iwould say the strongest wins.
I I that's that's what I'veseen, at least in in the in the
fields that I've seen, thepeople that that that have won,
they're stronger than me.
I mean, while not the same inMasters Racing, I get beat

(17:58):
several times over and over bypeople that in regular group
rights I would drop.
So different it it's in thatsense it's different.

SPEAKER_00 (18:09):
Yeah, so I think I I mean definitely agree with you,
like big VO2 prevails, but letlet's let's call it how it is.
VO2 Max is a higher aerobicmarker, FTP is that high aerobic
marker.
So even for you, like when yourFTP is its biggest, your VO2 max
is also its biggest.

(18:29):
You're you don't fluctuate inbody weight all that much.
So those two are are uh directlycorrelated.
There, there is definitely adirect correlation between those
two.
And the person who is thestrongest is kind of that hammer
that can just like grind around.
And these segments, too, um 15minutes, five minutes, seven

(18:50):
minutes, and thirty minutes-ish,28 to 30 minutes, something like
that.
So they're they're they're notuh they're not ultra long, but
they are long segments andthey're not super short, sprinty
stuff, right?
So all of the all thosedurations that I talked about
are uh how they would relate towhat we talk about on this
podcast in your physiology, isthey are uh aerobic glycolytic

(19:17):
energy systems.
Still me aerobic, don't don'tdiscredit that for being not
hard.
Aerobic is hard, but it is highaerobic glycolytic energy,
right?
And and so that's where FTP andVO2 max really shine through.
And so that's what I want.
So if you're training for allthese things, I mean you you
double down on that, right?
And we'll get to how to trainfor this here in just just a

(19:39):
second, just a second.
But like um, I think that thoseif there's like big things that
are difference between that aredifference between the two, just
because you're carrying a bigFTP and you're rolling into
Masters national championships,you ain't gonna win.
But if you roll into uh GrandFondo national championships,
aka group ride nationalchampionships, as some people

(20:00):
like talk about it, uh yeah,you're you're probably gonna
have a good chance atprevailing.

unknown (20:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:07):
And and I miss it, I I would say I misunderstood your
your comment.
And and I thought you meantriding at FTP.
Oh yeah.
I didn't mean the FTP.
Obviously, FTP is critical foreverything, but but what I what
I mean, if you're writing at FTPin the segments, you're not
you're not gonna win.

(20:28):
You might.
You might keep your FTP.
Like you put the example of ofof um Poolsville two years ago.
I managed to break and then Iwrote my FTP.
And writing at my FTP, I wasable because the group didn't
organize, not because I wassuper fast, but because the
group didn't organize to catchme, writing at my STP, I was

(20:48):
able to stay away.
So in a in the Grand Fondo, if Iwrite my FTP, I I I get dropped.
So I that's what I mean.
Like, like while in the roadrace, only in certain specific
moments you might have to go toyour VO2.
When there's attack, when youneed to cover a move, uh, or or
or something that you think it'sit's it's important to not let

(21:09):
go, and obviously at the end.
But other than that, you yourarely are, yeah, I would say
even above FTP, rarely, but butor at FTP.

SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
So yeah, that's a good that's a good distinguisher
because uh, like I said,efficiency in masters road
racing and burn the ships in thesegment.
I can't tell you how hard likethat was.
Like honestly, like very hard.
And I was just like, this isunsustainable, you guys.
Like this, I don't I was blownaway.

(21:41):
Anyway, so real quick before weget into how to train for this.
Um, clearly, coach needs to domore intervals here, uh, but
everybody uh probably knowsthat.
Um let's talk about the tacticsof this the segment racing
because you understand this anddo this better than I do.
I just kind of showed up and andwent hard.

(22:01):
Tell us about like the teamtactics where if you got a team
and you roll up, how you coulddo that.
And also let's talk about thetactics of the the timing mat
and how someone could gamify oroptimize speed and performance
on how the timing system worksat these segment races.

SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
So in a road race, if you if you if you're racing
with a team, there's a lot ofteam tactics.
You're racing with your team,and the whole idea is to get one
of you of the team to win.
You actually race as a team.
In the grandfondo segments, thisis less important precisely
because it's segments.
So a lot less team tactics thatI've seen.

(22:44):
Also in the in the Grand Fondoor in the so in the time segment
format, you get, as you said,it's more inclusive, you get a
lot more people, and you can getto the segments with a lot more
people of all different agegroups, but also different
abilities.
In the road race, you're alreadyfiltered at least by age, and as

(23:06):
the road race goes by, peopleget you know dropped and and and
the the hurt starts thinning.
In the segments, you can gosuper hard in one segment,
finish you know with the topgroup, but then things slow down
in between the next segment, andeverybody that's behind catches
again.
So usually you hit every segmentwith bigger groups.

(23:28):
So that that also changes thethe the dynamic of of the of the
segment.
So I would say when you go intoa race, a road race, there's
strategy.
You you usually discuss thestrategy with your with your
team, what in what places itmakes sense to attack depending
on the on the profile of the ofthe course.

(23:50):
You know who who's yourstrongest rider in that day, and
and and you're gonna protect himor her, and then uh you race
that way.
In the segment, there's notreally a lot of strategies.
Just go as hard as you can inthe segment and get as much time
as you can.
What the segment does have, thesegment races don't have is

(24:12):
tactics.
There's there's a lot of likelittle things that are unrelated
to your performance and to yourfitness that can make you win
very valuable seconds, and youcan actually win the overall
thanks to those tactics.
So, for example, when there'swhen you're coming behind the
group or with the group, whoevercrosses first in the group and

(24:36):
whoever crosses last in thegroup, you're already X amount
of seconds behind that person inthe segment.
So if you manage to come last inthe group or even give them like
a five-second lead and thenaccelerate and catch them,
effectively you made up thattime.
So you from the get-go, eventhough you finish at the exact
same, you cross the finish lineof the segment with the person

(25:01):
that is first.
If you entered last, you alreadymade five or ten seconds
potentially on that segment.
If you multiply that by you knowfive segments, you might have
gotten, you know, between 30 to50 seconds if you're smart in
how you do it.
And and you see it in every racethat people don't want to come
in first.

(25:21):
They're everybody's lagging.
In fact, I heard in that in thein the in the recent uh national
championship, um, a person thatwas coming into the second
segment completely breaked,almost caused a crash, because
he didn't want it to come firstinto the segment.
He wanted other people to comefirst into the segment,
precisely because of thoseseconds.

(25:44):
So there's there's thosetactics.
I I might not agree with them,but they're part of the race,
and you need to you need to keepthem into consideration,
especially if you're if if ifyou're not, you know, if if if
you want to win and and and yourcompetition is close to you, you
can you you have to be smartabout that.

SPEAKER_00 (26:00):
Um yeah, just to build off that, yes, that
happened like right in front ofme and almost caused a pileup,
and I'm like, what the heck,people?
And then from there, the next Ithink two or three segments, I
made my way like to the frontbecause I'm like, I don't want
to get crashed up by thesejokers.
So I did the exact opposite ofwhat you should have done.

(26:22):
Not knowing this, not knowinglike how something works, right?
I preached about that on thepodcast before.
Is like if you want to dosomething well, learn how it
works.
I got a hard lesson in howsegment racing worked uh by uh
doing it wrong.
So in should have consulted withCoach Camilo before before the
race.

SPEAKER_02 (26:41):
It's it's I mean you see it, but but so that's why I
was talking about like tacticsand and and and and also you
know, for example, if you if youdo this segment in between
segments, you ride chill.
If you see a group that's goingtoo hard, if it's a really good
group, in between segments I'msaying, if it's a really good

(27:03):
group, then it's worth youstaying with them and maybe
burning a little bit more energyto keep up with that group.
But if it's not, which you seeit all the time, people that
just keep going, let it go andand and find the the the the
four or five people that youknow are good, and then you work
with them in the segments.
Because in the segment itdoesn't matter if you finish the

(27:25):
whole grandfondo first, thatdoesn't mean where you're gonna
place.
In I I know from we were talkingabout this today.
I mean previous years they onthis particular event, some some
teams would let everybody go,start last, and they would do
the segments by themselves withthe team, the eight or ten

(27:46):
people, friends, or or similarabilities, and they would crash
because they don't have to dealwith with anybody else.
They have a good group workingtogether, which at the end of
the day is what's important inthese segments, and you know
they come last and then suddenlythey they won everything.
So in a road race, you don't seethat.
In a road race, if you're not inthe front, that's it, you're

(28:08):
done.
So so you can play thosetactics, you can play games
depending on on where you are.
And if you have friends and youknow them, that goes a long way
in segment racing.

SPEAKER_00 (28:21):
Yeah, and and if you make good friends out there too,
like not knowing anybody before,you make good friends, you go
fast.
Um, yeah, it's it's it's justreally different, you know, than
that uh kind of more clicky uhuh road racing uh style that
that that is you know just inthe in the road scene.

SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
So it's exactly and and just to finish for but uh to
give an example.
Last year, I in the firstsegment I managed to break away
from the group, and I knew Iended the first segment around
15 seconds ahead of the secondand and or of the group that was
behind.
From there on, I knew I didn'tneed to do one second of work

(28:58):
all day.
All I needed to do was to coverwhatever wheel was in front of
me.
That's it.
So it completely changed the wayI needed to race from there on,
because I was just protecting myspot, protecting my my my delta
that I made on my first segment.
While on road on a road race,forget it about that.
You you only know until the end,you have to be on your toes the

(29:20):
whole way.
So that's different tactics andand and on the segment racing.

SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
Yeah, wildly different tactics as I I uh man,
you you're far more aware andsmart than I am.
I basically just went until Isaw red and and uh headed to the
snack station.

SPEAKER_02 (29:37):
So it's more fun that way, I am for sure.
I prefer I pre I I would preferif road racing, master's road
racing was that way, like ballsout if we're gonna pay for a
race, I want to race.
That that's that's how I see it.
I don't want to go and and andand sit on wheels and sprint.
I um I'm paying and and we'renot professionals.
You know, we want to get the thehardest possible event possible.

(30:00):
possible.
So I I and that I do appreciateof segment racing, that you do
get absolutely shelled by theend of the race.
You're done.
So so that that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:12):
I mean that's that's a great point.
If you are somebody whobasically uh values the the the
suffering per dollar spent uhsomething like this uh it checks
all the boxes for sure yes andfor sure I I think if I could
pick and choose what I wouldwant in in a race it is the
flowy like I've used this wordgamification but it's the you

(30:33):
know people working together inflow that know how to ride their
bikes where maybe there's apream or there's some sort of
like hilltop finish and thenthere's also the sprint finish
and you can gut yourself butalso like try to win the race
all at the same time that to tome that's it for me.
I think the segment blastingyourself uh every uh I don't

(30:54):
know 10 miles or something likethat.
I don't know man.

SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
I don't know if I'll do it again but it's hard it's
it's races within a it is raceswithin an event.
So what you said at thebeginning I think I think it's
the key and it's it's veryinclusive.
You can do this segment and thenregroup with your friends with
with everybody that it's maybenot even interested in doing the
event that they're just there tocomplete the the the distance

(31:19):
and the elevation because youknow 88 miles which was this
year with around 9k of elevationthat's a proper ride.
That's a beautiful ride foreverybody.
Just to get to the finish line.
And it's healy so some people dothis just to do the event and
that's fantastic.
But with the added bonus thatyou could like do it with your
friends that are actually racingthe segments.

(31:41):
So so you get the best of bothworlds but it is five this
particular event the the the onewe did in Maryland it was five
races within an event so you canchoose if you race it or not.
And if let's say you start andyou're not feeling well then you
you just keep doing the rightand and you didn't lose your
money or or or feel bad about itor or nothing.

(32:02):
It's very inclusive in in thatregard and and I do as we're
talking about this I doappreciate that aspect of of the
of this of this of the formatand and and how it brings more
people it's it's lessintimidating.
There's no categories there's noyou know you don't need to be a
member of USA cycling or or orthings like that.

SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
That's a good that's a good way to put it I I think
that the the inclusive bit of itplus like man I'm not feeling it
today sort of thing in the daysnot wasted you know versus oh I
got lapped and I guess I'm outyou know that so that that I
that's a really interesting wayto to look at it.
I think two things that stoodout to me when you when you're
talking to is like I I met youknow a lot of people and I I was

(32:49):
riding with somebody wherethey're like yeah I live in the
um blue ridge mountains and it'sit's beautiful down there but
this is this is like a differentbeautiful right and and I think
when number one you have theseepic rides in beautiful
locations right and and it's newit can be different um and you

(33:10):
get to experience that justfirst and foremost.
But second is if you're racingsometimes like I've done LaRuda
four or five times and there wasone time I went down just to uh
just to be the the director ofthe team that we brought down I
learned more saw more realizedmore in the year that I went as

(33:30):
a director versus the racerbecause the the race I mean you
just are you know trying to getthrough point A to point B
through the jungle don't diedon't get you know where there's
a snake all that kind of crap.
Right it so the segments allowyou to like chill it talk to
people uh and experience likehow beautiful stuff is and we
ride up in Frederick often and Iwas like yeah I was noticing

(33:52):
stuff too that I hadn't beforeso I think in that way there's
all these other kind ofopportunities um that go on with
with a different style of racinglike that.

SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
So for for sure you talk to the people in between
the segments because you stillhave to do you know the 50 miles
in between we're in the withriding so you talk to people the
people from all around come thein well the masters races at
least in this area you tend topretty much race with the same
people all the time.

(34:21):
Which is great too because thenyou actually know the wheels and
and and for safety strategy.
Correct and and and for strategybut but as we said for
inclusiveness and and and andoverall openness uh the segment
racing is is it's a great formatin that regard and and as you
were pointing out kind of likethe the gravel events that have

(34:43):
gotten super popular and grownin popularity precisely because
they they bring more of thatcommunity aspect into the into
the writing and and and it'smore friendly to to people that
are just starting or want todive into this or or not.
Well the the racing they can bea little bit intimidating from
the get go.

SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
Yep yep that's it.
So I I think now as we're justkind of starting to push toward
the end of this is is like howto train for these two things
right and let's start first withlike masters road racing and the
boring answer this the straightup boring answer is how to train
for it well a generalprogressive overload

(35:25):
periodization plan is good.
Start with a base go buildpreparation then you get into
the specific training stuff andthere's there's intervals galore
that we could talk about we'llmention a couple right now but
go back to what I said aboutlike the master's road racing
it's it's an art it's a craftand so when people say what do I
need to do to you know preparefor a poolsville or this road

(35:47):
race or whatever you need torace your bike because racing is
the best training for racing inmy opinion okay because of the
because of the artistry becauseof the craft and group rides hit
don't get me wrong group ridesare specific and they do well
but you the it's kind of likethis segment racing where
there's there's on times and offtimes you can kind of mentally

(36:11):
space out a little bit or youstop at the gas station and your
buddies are there for 10 minutesdoing whatever.
And and so like group ridesdefinitely hit but like racing
like if you want to if you wantto become a good racer you race.
And that's should be in thespace and and that builds over
time and I'm not just sayinglike sign up for 80 road races
in a year if you're a master andyou'll be good.

(36:32):
I do not advise that.
But in that way it's it's ageneral progressive overload uh
sort of approach.
And the reason I say that too isis Camilo does a very good job
of this but we maximize theaerobic capacity before we turn
on the anaerobic intensity.
Okay.
And in and for Camilo he's he'sone of these athletes that I I

(36:54):
train kind of differently with Ilong leash on him because I know
he's got good habits where it'shigh mileage keep this up and
I've got kind of a set kind ofboundary of where I'm keeping
the CTL to make sure that hestays fit and when he decides to
to do something we're eightweeks out from getting specific
and pointy and fast.

(37:15):
That's the the general strategywith with Camilo um so anything
that you want to add to that inin the way of how we prep you
for uh road racing or what worksbest for you or or something
like that.

SPEAKER_02 (37:28):
I think if the the the road racing requires more
grip tactics and knowing how toride in a pack very well and and
being very safe or or or youknow it's it's tighter it's
faster and you're racing thewhole time and and you're racing
in downhills you're racing inuphills you're racing in flat

(37:49):
well on the segments they tendto be uphill which slows down
not all of them but most of themare uphill and that slows down
the pace a lot making it a lotsafer in in so if if let's say
you're the type of person thatyou don't like group rights you
you wanna you you don't likegroup rights or or or races

(38:10):
because you think or regularraces because you think they
they can be dangerous which theycan be and and and and you like
look I'm 45 I have kids I wantto be you know I I want to come
home every day and be good butstill do events segment racing
is fantastic because you can doit with minimal skill of group

(38:30):
tactics you still need to knowhow to how to draft and and and
how to be safe and andeverything but you don't need to
be fantastic at it you you andand you see it actually you see
it in the segment racing and Iknow some people that do very
well and always write bythemselves.
So you can you can get by and dofantastic in these segment races

(38:51):
without doing any other racingor writing in groups while the
other way around you won't youcan be I mean unless you're like
amazing and you know because atthe end of the day it's it's
it's engine if you if you'relike insane well yeah you're
gonna come and drop everybodybut but if you're you know like
a normal master like you do needto race and you and you do need

(39:12):
to to to to to get that um thatspecifics and and that was
something for example that um Icame from China and I had I
could go long and I could go youknow at at a tempo for a really
long time but in the first grouprace I would join I would get
dropped because because racesare VO2 set up the the the

(39:34):
breakaway and then you you youmaintain so so it it's different
in that regard too so definitelyfor masters racing racing and um
and getting really good in ingroup tactics or in in group
writing and and and tactics ifyou have a team.
While all of that is not thatimportant in it's important it's

(39:58):
still relevant but not asrelevant.
I think we were talking aboutthis today um I think if you
wrote race a lot and you want tocome into segment racing with
some specific training andtweaks and tactics and and and
just tweaks you can actually dovery well but the other way
around no so so it it it's it'skind of like segment racing is a

(40:25):
sub of um road racing well if wewent to do gravel racing
completely different uhcompletely different now we're
now that's completely that's awhole different category on
everything you know like like ifyou come from a mountain biking
background you're gonna if youhave good cornering is the

(40:46):
course is technical nottechnical it's a whole different
thing but in this particular oneif you're a good road racer you
can be a fantastic segment racerbut if you're a fantastic
segment racer it you might notbe a fantastic road racer.

SPEAKER_00 (40:59):
Yeah and it's and it's no dig to uh segment racing
or people who prevail at segmentracing but it's just the like I
said the artistry thecraftsmanship of road racing you
know you can have you can get onyou can be a ninja on the bike
and win and do well but thatmeans you probably have a lot of
hay in the barn of racing andtraining also like in your

(41:20):
background you just haven'ttrained a bunch uh recently
right and and you can only bethat ninja on things where um
you know not huge hill climbsand all this kind of stuff but
at some point like to be goodyou know at road racing it's
that craftsmanship but then likewhat Camilo was saying is he had
a big aerobic engine when himand I first met so the two

(41:41):
places where we work on thespecificity of training or kind
of in the final stages are thepower for repeatability and
durability.
So power for repeatability whatdo I mean what do I mean by
that?
It's kind of the on off repeatgo hard maybe not max but hard
short not full recovery then goagain so uh an example workout

(42:04):
might be 15 by one minute on andone minute off that power
intervals those that's a a greatroad racing crit racing uh power
for repeatability durability orpower for repeatability workout
some people might do speedintervals that are like 3030s i
i think that if you're going forlike race winning moves and and

(42:27):
if you you know you're eightweeks out I'd go more like a
minute on minute off minute onminute off that's going to get
you pretty pretty durable in myopinion uh threshold with surges
these are also good I just hadan athlete um do a big one of
this so one by 45 minute go andit was like like three and a
half minutes like sub thresholdor threshold so like 91 to 101%

(42:51):
of FTP and then a hard uh surgethat's maybe like 130 to 150 uh
percent of FTP so like a VO2power or like a zone five and
we're just going low zone fourmid zone five low zone four mid
zone five back and forth likethat with no recovery because
again we're working on can Irepeat this power and can I hold

(43:14):
up over time.

SPEAKER_02 (43:16):
And and for example you you mentioned earlier today
that your best numbers some evenfrom all time not even from this
year from old time you put themin this past event and you race
a lot and you've raised mountainbiking gravel you just did
tracker which I mean you you itit's not like you've been
slacking so so you've been doingthis and and in the group rating

(43:40):
here you're always you know oneof the first ones if not the
first so so what why did you putthe best numbers in a segment
race right I do I so so it it itit versus because you've been
racing so I think there's norace that I've done in this area
or ever that I have to go for 25minutes all out as much as hard

(44:02):
as I can usually it's I go forfive minutes until the break
gets set and then and then youstart working this so then the
pace is harder right in bethere's no lag in between so you
need to be able to do that andas you said repeatability repeat
but then keep a high here inhere is insanity followed by 50

(44:24):
watts you know like that so soor as or as easy as you can make
it and you have 7.5 watts or 7.1watts per kilo and then 1.7
watts per kilo it's the thechillest you can call in between
segments that's your yourstrategy so so but then you put
all these insane numbers for youbefore and and for example

(44:47):
you've mentioned this beforeit's in this event every year
that I see your best numbers andit's good to have them because
you can compare them withprevious efforts.
So because it's the same routethe same segment so so it it's
very good also as marker forathletes for for for everybody
doing this segment event it's afantastic marker because they

(45:09):
the segments are the same andthe efforts will be you can
gauge your fitness year by yearin those segments.
Not true in a race you canfinish a race first today 100
tomorrow and would have done waymore effort placing 100.
It depends on the group thatcame that day.
So that's a good point so it itit I I think that's an

(45:30):
interesting thing of segmentracing it it gives you a good
continued marker of ofimprovement or or it's cleaner
that way it's less um thisthere's less disturbance I guess
in the data you know it's it'sit's I mean there's some you're
still drafting and and and everytime you have somebody stronger

(45:50):
than you in front of you thatmotivates you so that helps.
But in general I would say I'vedone this event like I don't
know six times and I would sayyou know like the difference
between timing in one segmentanother it's five seconds it's
it's the variability is not big.

SPEAKER_00 (46:06):
So yeah yeah though those are all really good points
and I I think too is is um Imean I just get more motivated
for group rides like I I've donea lot of training I've done all
the intervals I've ever wantedto do in my life and then some
in and I'm just at a point rightnow where I'm not motivated for
that but put me next to somebodyand go uphill hell yeah let's go

(46:26):
right that kind of thing.
So I think it is uh yeah I had abig year that was front loaded
by trackers so I got a lot ofvolume got a lot of hay in the
barn it was hot as Hades for twomonths so I've got extra plasma
volume as it just cooled downand the fall foliage is here.
Same thing with you so I thinklike for a lot of us that have
been riding and and um doingevents and stuff like September

(46:48):
hits really well around here forvarious reasons and uh producing
the the that power like wasreally good.
I did not know that until like Iuploaded um stuff but I was just
but then you you talk about uhsome of these other tactics too
that we didn't talk about toomuch and I don't know if we have
time for it but like uh stupidAdam who's like man I'm gonna

(47:08):
carb up and bottle you know 750and you know all the because I
didn't look at where the aidstations were I just rolled down
from the house.
Meanwhile Camilo is like runninglike cell phone and pocket one
half a bottle just to get uphamburg because he knows there's
a frickin' aid station on thebackside then you fill up and
then you go so I had an extrathree pounds probably at the at

(47:32):
least three three and a halfpounds so if you want if you
want to improve speed rightthere start thinking about what
you actually have to carry lookat the course map look at where
the aid stations are and insegment racing you can stop
there's no penalty for that andthat will strategically improve
your speed so if you learnanything from this podcast learn

(47:53):
from Mr.
Dummy over here just think aheada little bit and you will uh go
faster.

SPEAKER_02 (47:57):
Yeah more tactics and and just to to close it
which we talked about at lunchand it's the nutrition in in a
road race you you you have tobring all of your nutrition you
might have the a a places wherewhere you might be able to get a
bottle from you know from from afeed station but the feed
stations you have to be carefulyou miss bottles sometimes the

(48:19):
whole group comes in and it'shard to get in I I I've
definitely missed feed stations.
So you need to beself-sufficient.
You need to know that I mightnot get another bottle I I I
need to be careful and bringobviously your your the the
carbs or whatever your gels orany food that you're consuming.

(48:41):
In this segment racing I didn'tbring anything I stopped in
every eight station I woulddrink a coke and a peanut butter
and jelly keep going so it it itit's way fuel in my control
exactly so you so you can so youcan control it way more and and
and and and you can eat whateveryou want and and stop and and

(49:03):
relax or stretch or go to thebathroom a lot of things that in
a in a regular road race willimpact you in here you don't
have so that's another butthat's exactly my mentality like
the night before I was like okaylike 87 miles 9,000 feet this
will take me five hours I needlike six gels two bottles and it

(49:24):
was free up hamburg I was likethat is when it hit me I was
like God I'm going so fuckinghard right now and I'm like I
have two bottles right now.

SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
God damn it those three pounds yeah that makes a
difference really bad especiallyon yeah so so that's a that's
another I would say importantdifference between one and the
other yeah yeah yeah we are kindof bouncing around that my last
note on like the the mastersracing durability that's pretty
hot topic right now I've gone Imean search for time crunch

(49:55):
cyclist durability I've donethree or four podcasts on this
so you can um learn all you wanton that but really what we're
talking about is can you performlate in the game this is
important for masters racing aswell as segment racing but I
would say most important forthat masters just because you
spend a lot of energy eventhough you're trying to conserve
and then you have to performlate in the game for that that

(50:17):
finishing sprint, the hillclimb, whatever.
So how you train for it, you dowork right you do work and then
go hard.
So for masters level racingusually 1500 kilojoules is is
usually what I see at leastplaying out here because we're
racing 5060 maybe 70 miles.
So 1500 kilojoules of aerobicwork I think for some other
people I also use 2000kilojoules somewhere in there

(50:40):
best way to identify is just goback and look at some race data
and see before that final sprintuh how many kilojoules you're
doing do that in an aerobic rideand then go five minute full
tilt or do your sprint and workon producing power on tired legs
within a workout that's how youimprove durability.

(51:00):
So uh segment training uh CamiloI I would say back to the old
you know like the boring answerprogressive overload
periodization still prevailsbecause again we want to we want
to have a big aerobic engine wewant to maximize aerobic
capacity if you intensify beforethat which sometimes you may not

(51:21):
have the time like the timing todo like sometimes you got to
just go hard coming in becauseyou want the intensity and
specificity of it but like asmuch as you can as big of a
runway as you can try tomaximize aerobic capacity first
then your intensive trainingwill go a lot better but as we
were talking about like thiskind of the specifics of segment

(51:41):
racing is like interval trainingit's just on off right exactly
if if if you have to if you ifyou lived in an area where you
cannot ride outside and you onlyhave a trainer you can you can
do you know specific intervalsor or training in in your in
your in your um turbo and andand do fantastic in on the day

(52:07):
of the event the while in roadracing it's it's it's more
erratic.
So and to that point like I wasI met a lot of cool new people
and I also listened to a lot ofpeople and all the people that
were kicking my ass that theywere talking about how much
training they were doing indoorsand like yeah I did a four hour
ride with like five intervalsand one of them was like at the

(52:28):
very end I'm like that's apretty good workout for this I
would never do that but that's agreat workout I mean honestly
because it is very specificright you you were with a very
fast group you were with thewith the with the with the point
you know with the with the toppeople not only in the area but
I would say in the nation in inthat so so so I mean it's it's

(52:49):
you know like like well I almostturned around went home so yeah
no but but but I mean it it youwere you were with with some
very very legitimate riders uhthat day so well henry neff also
rode away from us who uh to tothat point um Henry Neff is is
one of the top juniors um uh inthe nation going on to U-23s
here soon but like that dudejust he highest aerobic capacity

(53:12):
of anybody there and and he wonthe ballgame um so again kind of
coming back to that um highaerobic uh capacity get your FTP
nice and big hit VO2 intervalsgoing in so I mean we talked
about these segments 15 uh it'snot true the longest one was
right around 30 minutes that's alittle different because that

(53:36):
one I would say also requireslike pack riding skills like the
the the more you can ride andalso incentivize people to work
with you that's crucial umthat's good it I missed the boat
on the fast group there becauseI was uh hanging out in the aid
stations by the way eating apeanut butter and jelly sandwich
I realized people were gone sothat group the group that I was
hanging out with the whole timethey went 28 minutes I snuck on

(53:58):
this other group and I was 32and I was like yeah dang and
that's how I lost the lost thegame anyway and um yeah go ahead
and just to add on that for sureif you if you're gonna do
segment writing you need to payattention which one's the good
group because yeah a lot of thesegments are draft dependent and
the difference between goingwith one group and the you might

(54:19):
do the exact same effort but inthe other group go three minutes
faster because they're of thedraft so so you need to be
paying attention at all timesyou can uh in in between you you
cannot stay in the eight stationtwo hours and and and then
because then you're gonna losethe fast group so that's another
tactical thing you know likefind a good group stick with it

(54:41):
all day yeah yeah that's that'sit for sure and so if people are
are interested in this too andlike okay so what what is the
best training?
I mean honestly group rides aresome of the best because you
have these intermittent you knowhard periods you you're riding
with people and if if I can if Ican like really advocate for
anything is riding with peopleis super healthy for so many

(55:05):
reasons because if you're ifyou're gonna do events you don't
want to be the person you don'twant to be the swervy dude or
the swervy girl that runs intopeople and and causes problems
right you also don't want tohave so much anxiety about mass
starts and people all over theplace and all this kind of
stuff.
You want to know how to handleyour machine you want to have
confidence in that and yeah gohard up the hill but like the

(55:26):
more you ride with people themore confidence and skills
you'll have.
So group rides full stop but onthese riding with a friend
Camilo is is great because hemakes uh beautiful routes and
they always incorporate hillsthroughout so find a friend like
Camilo and have these long ridesthat are four to five hours that
have hills and all you do is youride hard on the hills endurance

(55:49):
in the flats you stop every oncein a while to get some cokes and
that's a great training program.
How hard I would go thresholdbut every once in a while go
full tilt because again likethese segments peak powers of my
all time the second best peakpowers of all time in three
different categories I can'teven remember right now but it's
like they were very hard so yougot to prepare for that and

(56:11):
especially from the durabilityside of things is um a lot of
people are cramping up becauseagain it's full tilt and the
final one was like 30 minuteslong a lot of people cramping
and then there's a little sprintum at the top of that.
So replicate that for thespecificity in your training but
I think yeah you can really uhgame the system by doing this
stuff indoors for sure um indoorracing totally indoor courses

(56:37):
where you just like pin it onthe hills uh that'll definitely
get the job done and you cantrain on the course and and you
know the segments and and thathelps I mean it that's true for
a road race too you know thatyou can say oh yeah you can go
on the course but if it's a flatrace yeah you go on the course
but you know like like it it'smuted it they what's gonna make
the difference is the groupwhile in this segment the group

(56:59):
will make a difference but ifyou have the chance to train in
the course know where the theareas that are gonna get steeper
or or or or the curves or orthings it helps a lot too for
for for and and you can train onthe course which is fantastic
and and and this particularcourse is is quite hilly so so

(57:20):
that that that helps too.
That's it yeah that that isabsolutely it and and I don't
you know because this is afairly specific podcast about uh
the the the the differencesbetween these two like racing uh
you know like uh situations uh Ihad a ton of fun talking to
Camilo about this and like Isaid he's done this race so many

(57:41):
times I don't mean this to belike a a billboard for this race
in particular but I will mentionthat um we ride in this area a
lot if Frederick Maryland isclose to my heart because it
just has uh good quiet roadsgravel roads mountain bike
trails it's a cool funky town uhput it on your radar to go at
least visit but if if you youknow if you want to try some of

(58:03):
this time segment racing likethis race is established and
it's not going anywhere so youdo need to qualify for the
national championship version ofit.
So if you want to qualify um forthe 2026 version uh go over to
Grandfondo nationalseries.com umor you go to usacycling.org and
you can click on the nationalseries page um there and you can

(58:26):
find a bunch of informationabout how to qualify um how to
get in how this whole uh thingworks but then there they also
have the non-championship uhrace which is what Camilo has
done several times if you're nota US uh citizen or if you didn't
qualify you can still come andrace the same segments on the
same course and the the uh thenumbers um the segments get

(58:48):
posted and so you can also kindof compare uh uh race to race
it's super fun there's a goodchill vibe afterwards food beer
a good hangout in downtown um uhFrederick Maryland so kind of a
shameless pug plug for what Iconsider to be uh a hometown
sort of race so I I definitelywant to mention that uh Camilo
any shameless plugs you want tothrow out there into the world

(59:11):
no it's it's it's a fantasticrace it's it's it's a local race
and and and for anybody that islocal that that has been
thinking about like the thistype of port it's worth it it's
fun it's gonna be hard the it'sless intimidating definitely try
it and and and if the distancechallenges you or or if if
you're not comfortable with 88miles they have other distances

(59:34):
and and and they keep thesegments so you can do shorter
distances also um it I thinkit's a fantastic event uh that's
why I keep doing it and and andand I think we should support
our local events and races tooif if if you know if we want
them to keep continuing wecomplain that there's no more
races but then we don't sign inthe races that there are.

(59:55):
So so so yeah yeah fantasticevent.
It's a very good point.
I think that anybody, you know,listening to like also go to
your like local uh racing venueand and you can go to the board
there and say we want this typeof racing if you don't have a
segment style, or you know, dosomething local.
I think that's first andforemost.

(01:00:16):
I did mention and just to kindof broaden this, because again,
not sponsored by the Grand FondoNational Series, but like uh
I've done the Oatroot eventsthat were in the United States
for a while.
They no longer are, but that wasmy first um like sampling of the
segment style racing.
I had a blast at road withfriends, like I said, epic sort
of like you know, views inColorado, and I was like, God

(01:00:37):
damn, this is uh this is fun.
You have done some in Europebefore, Camilo.
So if people are like, well,there's no there's no um no
fondos in my local area, and ohI can the timing doesn't work
out for Frederick.
Uh and if they want aninternational trip, I mean, are
there any races off the top ofyour head that are segment
style, like fondo-ish, that uhare uh on your mind that you've

(01:00:59):
experienced before over inEurope?

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:01):
I I think that's a that's an important
differentiation, and it's andit's there's a lot of companies
that are called Grand FondoSomething.
And Grandfondo is a style of ofracing which comes from Europe
and it's basically a road race,a long helium road race.
Point to point, not segments,long, long, hard, and there's so

(01:01:23):
many of those in Europe.
Fantastic races all around.
Now the the the segment piece,I'm not gonna say it's new
because I don't know, but butthat's the first time I saw it
was here in the United States.
And I think it's for safety andalso for for very many reasons,
but also safety.
You don't want people racingdown those uh hills in in

(01:01:46):
Frederick, you know, all out.
It's dangerous.
On top of that, you have toclose everything, and and now
it's a whole different uhlogistical production.
So the segments control that andkeeps races within, keeps the
race manageable or the racingpiece of the event manageable.
There's grand fondos all around,there's the UCI grand fondos,
but those are point-to-point.

(01:02:07):
Um so so don't let the GrandFondo name make you think that
it's a segment.
No, you need to go in, you needto go in and look exactly what
it is.
The Grand Fondo, it's kind oflike a blanket name at this
point.
For example, there's anothercompany, Grand Fondo New York,
and those are point-to-point.
As far as I know, they're allpoint-to-point.

(01:02:28):
I don't think they havesegments.
So so it really depends.
My I my last shameless plug isthere is another fantastic event
in Frederick coming up October25th, the Grand Fon Dieu.
It's it's everything the GrandFondo is, but without any of the
racing.
It's just full fun.

(01:02:49):
But really hilly.
I I super recommend it.
Grandfundieu October 25th.
And and this is with a companythat you know well, Adam.
They do a fantastic meeting,they have a fantastic mission,
big fans of them.
Um, so that's my shameless plug.
The the Grand Fund.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:05):
This is this is why I love you.
I'm I am glad you worked thisin.
Yes, uh, my neighbor Alex andher husband Chris actually
listen to this podcast.
We have been neighbors for likeyears up there in Frederick, and
it was like just a couple monthsago, Chris uh texted me.
He's like, dude, I just foundyour podcast.
This is awesome.

(01:03:25):
And I'm like, really?
And that's how like terrible Ithink I am at self-promotion.
Either way, they run uh DirtyKit and Gravel series, they they
they run a bunch of races andevents.
Um she is, I think, still themanager at Bike Dr.
Frederick.
Uh, lovely people.
They do so much in the cyclingcommunity in the cycling world.
So if you're in the DMV and youwant something just funky,

(01:03:49):
different, and a challenge, uh,Grand Fondue.
It is coming up here in October25th.
October 25th.
October 25.
Yeah, and it's it's hard, man.
But like, yeah, you self-paced,really well-stocked aid
stations, and you got anythingthere.
You you have pavement, you gotlike champagne gravel, you have
like the rockiest gravel I'veever seen in my life.

(01:04:10):
You have single track.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:11):
Single track.
You have grilled cheese,everything grilled cheese
sandwiches, um cameras,pictures, and they give you the
pictures afterwards.
They um it really is a fantasticevent.
I I I yeah, I recommend it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:28):
Highly I do too.
Yes.
Uh, so we'll link to our notesfor the Grand Fondue.
It is a little bit ofeverything, which is what but it
is like 10,000 feet of climbing100 miles.
And uh, Camilo, if you stop for45 minutes for a grilled cheese
sandwich when it's 45 degreesout, I will not ride with you
this year.
Uh, but it is still one of thebest events I think I've ever

(01:04:50):
done with you.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
So uh with all that being said,I I really hope uh for all the
listeners who are stilllistening, this is definitely a
different uh duration ofpodcast.
And but it's it's thatstorytelling and and it it
sprinkled in some of thetraining and some of the like
eye-opening things that Ilearned by by like shredding

(01:05:11):
myself uh completely on some ofthese events.
I I think that you're you'renever too old, you're never too
experienced to just learn moreand think about things in
different ways.
And I think that this segmentstyle racing that I I'll be
honest with you, like Ipoo-pooed it like Grand Fondo
segment style, that's not forme, but man, it was fun and it
was different, you know, and Ithink too, it's like I I still

(01:05:33):
love road racing more, I'llalways do that more.
But like this is uh this wasfun, and and I'm and then as me
and Camila were talking more, Iwas like, man, this we could
talk about this like for becausewe were talking about it
forever, just like thecomparisons, and and then I I
asked you because we had thisViet Velo, which was kind of
more like a road racy thing.
I was like, which one washarder?
Grand uh the Grand Fondochampionships or the Viet Velo,

(01:05:55):
which was just like you were onthe gas the whole time, like no
stops on like it was verydifferent, but it it hurt in a
different way, too.
You know, so uh anyway, Camilo,I've taken up way too much of
your time.
Thank you for coming on thepodcast and talking for uh a
thousand minutes about uh nerdystuff.
I really appreciate it.

(01:06:16):
No, of course I haven't had ablast.
Thank you very much for invitingme.
All right, see you tomorrow atnoon.
Yes.
Thanks for joining us on theTime Crunch Cyclist podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
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(01:06:36):
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