May 14, 2025 • 38 mins
OVERVIEW
Colin Izzard and Adam Pulford have more than 45 years of coaching experience between them. In this casual conversation between two old friends and colleagues, they pull back the curtain on how the coaching process works, how it differs from a training plan or AI-generated program, and how coaching has changed for the better with the introduction of new technologies - including artificial intelligence.
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GUEST
Colin Izzard graduated from Syracuse University in 1998 with a BS in Exercise Physiology and Biomechanics. He served as the Head Coach for USA Swimming Teams as well as working at UNC Chapel Hill as a swimming and strength coach. He joined CTS as a coach in the early 2000s, developed CTS’s first regional center in Asheville/Brevard NC, and mentored, developed, and trained dozens of coaches. Other fun projects have included writing stage races for Zwift and working with Training Peaks to help develop WKO 4 software. He served as a bike fit/sports science advisor for the Hincapie Racing Team, Columbia Es Passion Professional Cycling Team, The Toronto Maple Leafs NHL Team, and Trek Regional Factory Programs.
HOST
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance even if
you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches whomake up the team at CTS.
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
What is coaching?
That's a super basic question,but it's a good one, and for
(00:54):
some who have been athletestheir whole life, they've had
many coaches and probably a mixof good and not so good coaches.
And in the endurance world,though, in what we're going to
talk about today, we're going toreally kind of press into.
What does a coaching processlook like for an amateur athlete
working with a remote-basedcoach?
(01:15):
Now I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, here to answer some of
those questions and pull backthe veil on what coaching is.
Is CTS Premier Coach ColinIzzard.
Colin, welcome back to the show.
Thanks for having me again.
Yeah, man, and you know speciallittle tidbit here for all the
listeners Colin is actually inmy house right now.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It's a little weird being on the other side of the
wall.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, this is true, you are about as the crow flies,
maybe five feet.
Uh, yes, this is true, uh, youare.
You are about, uh, as the crowflies, maybe five feet away from
me, but there is a wall inbetween us.
Yeah, and the way that this lowbudget podcast works is we got
to be in separate rooms to talkto each other.
But that's fine and dandy,Colin.
Uh, since everyone knows nowwhere you are, uh, can you tell
us a little bit more of what wedid today?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
yeah, so we we actually and this kind of is
nice for the the purpose of whatwe're chatting about we had a
great mountain bike ride, uh,and some awesome trails right
out of adam's front door.
Um, just just ripped about, um,and the the cool thing to me
was getting to see a differentarea that I've never been to
(02:27):
with an experienced person.
That's those, the trails.
So not dissimilar to probablysome of the stuff we'll get into
here.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And even before you know, just want to let everybody
know that not every day do Irip the mountain bike for three
hours and then have a podcastwith a friend.
This is a pretty unique Fridayand I'm just stoked Colin's
passing through and we can makethis happen.
But before that I mean in themorning we woke up, started
drinking some coffee.
One of my athletes was racingat Brabant's to peel and so we
(02:58):
watched bike racing, then webuilt programs, then we were
doing the keyboard donkey work,like Colin likes to say emails,
text message back and forth andthen pretty soon we were like we
should probably get out andride the bike, right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yep, probably yeah, so we had time to do this too,
as the day was getting on.
Yes, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So, but with that and some chatter about what this
podcast is going to be like,cause I've had athletes, or I've
had people that I ride with andalso people who have never had
a coach before ask me, like whatis coaching?
Like what do you do?
Or my parents, like I'm prettysure my mom still doesn't really
(03:40):
know what I do.
It's a very weird occupation.
So, colin, if I can just askyou the pure question, like what
is coaching?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So my, my way I look at this is it's, it's, it's
guidance, mentorship, friendship, not necessarily in that order,
uh and, and it changes orderdepending on where the athletes
at in their athletic journey,right, and it can change weekly,
(04:10):
daily, yearly, whatever thecase is.
But, but that that's thebiggest part to me.
Or the other stuff is, you know, the science and the building
of the schedule and all thatthat.
I mean, it's an important partof it, to be sure, but I've
always found that that coachingreally is.
(04:30):
It's a relationship and, likeany other relationship, it can
be really fruitful if you putsome work into it and and do all
the things that you would do inany other.
You know, human interaction,relationship.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, and that's you know.
A huge part of what I want totalk about today is that
relationship, because I'llpreface this with a disclaimer
saying that this is not apodcast intended to be an
advertisement for CTS inparticular, or even to get a
coach.
It is simply to, like I said,pull the veil back on what
(05:03):
coaching actually is, and howdoes it compare to static
training program versus AIprogram versus self-coaching and
that sort of thing?
And so, to me, when I thinkabout, like, what coaching is
and what we do, it has all ofthose elements that Colin is
talking about, and the coachingitself is a process by which one
person is helping anotherperson achieve their goals or
(05:27):
try to improve some aspect aboutthemselves, and in our world,
it's probably some aspect oftheir physiology, their
psychology, their bodycomposition and their maybe
their race or or event savviness.
Those are the things that wereally develop in our athletes.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Absolutely yeah.
And then again, sort of likewhat I was saying before, it
depends on where they are right,because you're going to do
those things differently intodifferent percentages as you go
on with a person right yeah,someone that you've had for
seasons.
It's automatic writing training, but you know what they need to
do and they know what they needto do.
So then you are looking at okay, well, let's, let's talk about
(06:10):
race craft.
You've got an amazing engine.
We know that, we've done thedevelopment, but it's utilized
poorly.
How do we actually use it?
Well, to your advantage that'sa huge.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Well, that that is a huge one.
And I think it brings me to oneof my first points is I think a
lot of people think coaching,or what a coach does, is just
build a bunch of intervals forthe week, and then the athlete
goes and does it, and then youtalk about it and there's
basically like an intervalbuilding machine.
Is that what you do, colin, areyou?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
an interval building machine.
There is an element to that,yes.
However, I would say that istruthfully.
That is the easiest part of thejob and quite often takes the
least amount of time.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I know probably some people don't want to hear that,
but really that's pulling backthe nail, like a lot of people
think that building theintervals is actually.
But it's not Sorry to interrupt, but that's the Sorry to
interrupt you, but that's true.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, absolutely Right.
I mean, we've both been doingthis a while and anyone that's
been doing it a while and that'seven halfway competent, that
should be one of the easiestparts of the job, without a
doubt.
Right, identifying maybe whatto do when.
That should be easy but alsotakes a little more thought.
But yeah, you know, there'snothing magical about like four
(07:30):
by 10 versus four by 12 per se,other than progression Right and
and in that way I meanfollowing the principles of
training, which progression isone of them.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Progressive overload, in particular, is is important.
But I think, too, this rollsback to a couple of podcasts I
did ago now where, uh, basicallyyou know asking the question,
do we actually need to dointervals?
And I gave a bunch of examplesof when and how and why you
wouldn't be doing intervals,including monitoring exercise
(08:01):
through kilojoule expenditure,training fatigue resistance or
building durability, or justriding around, enjoying riding
your bike and exercising andstaying fit without having the
structure all of the time, whichis super important.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, yeah, or I mean .
So.
I've been doing this for a while, but recently we've started
implementing it with a couple offolks where it's like, okay, we
, we know, we want X amount ofminutes of of whatever intensity
, that we're working on energysystem, and you know, they just,
instead of doing four by 12 orwhatever the case is, they're an
experienced enough athlete thatwe can have a good conversation
(08:40):
about it and say, okay, well,look, I want whatever 60 minutes
of this work today and you'vegot a box to play in.
You know from X to Y, which werepower, you know um, rp or
whatever that that representsthat area that we want to be in.
And now you go ride the bikeand let the terrain dictate it
and and ride inside the box.
(09:00):
I want you to override it andpreferably don't underwrite it
too much.
But that's, to me, is a greatthing that you know you can have
that conversation with someoneand they've matured enough as an
athlete to understand whatyou're getting at and understand
the purpose, the greaterpurpose behind the workout.
And yes, it is an interval,quote, quote, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
And then mentally, for that person too, it's can be
more fruitful and you're stillgetting at the root thing of
whatever part of theirphysiology you're trying to
improve for whatever, purpose,yeah, yeah, and so in that
regard, I mean you're puttingsome bumpers on to kind of steer
them in the direction, but it'sa little bit more of an
abstract workout or goals thatare more abstract within the
(09:44):
bike riding realms of sorts.
They stay ahead of the athletein the way of, you know, guiding
them, leading them in that way,but it's not that like super
programmed, strict, you knowkind of dictatorship sort of
role, which some coaches do.
That's fine and some athletesprefer that.
(10:04):
That's not my coaching style,but I do think that there is.
That coach-athlete relationshipis much more healthy when we
have some abstract times, wehave some strict times, kind of
there's time for both,absolutely yeah, hey, we got to
rein this in.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We're going to be ultra precise, or no?
We've got this big block oftime.
Let's understand what it'sabout and figure out different
ways to get through it that arefruitful for you so we've talked
about relationship right, andcoach-athlete relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
One of the things that I think distinguishes CTS
from others, or what goodcoaching companies do, is they
pay attention to that relationalside of things and try to pair
coaches with athletes that havenot only similar goal, uh, like
goal interest meaning.
Like you know, colin, if youraced the blood to 100 and or
(10:59):
mountain bikes, right, yourmountain bike racer background,
right, um, and you have aswimming background, which we'll
talk about here in a second Um,if there's overlap there,
whatever that Venn diagram is,we're going to pair that athlete
, at least to have aconversation with you to see if
it's a good fit.
Then there's another layer oflike, communication,
relatability and like do youjive?
(11:19):
Like, can you talk more aboutthat?
Like, have you ever rejected anathlete because you didn't jive
?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
absolutely yeah, and I've been rejected too, and and
it goes both because it goesback to, I think what I
mentioned earlier and you knowwe this is what I like is when
you actually, as as a coach,you've reached that point in
your career where you and I dothis right, like we might say
hey, you know, athlete X, you'reawesome, but I think I might be
better for you, here's whyRight.
And then you have thatconversation and again, it
(11:48):
doesn't really it matters whatthat coach's training philosophy
is, for sure, but it mattersmuch more to me that that
initial conversation or two aregood, they're smooth, you can
actually have a conversationwith this person, right.
And yeah, sometimes it's alittle awkward to start, like
any initial conversation, but Ithink the best athlete
relationships I've had over theyears, it's almost it's like
(12:11):
when you find a new friend rightand it's just this automatic,
you click.
Yes, you're talking about thetraining.
It's almost it's like when youfind a new friend right and it's
just this automatic you clickyes, you're talking about the
training, but then you start toinject in like, oh, I have a dog
, cool, so do I.
Cool, you know, it's just likethose things that then deepen
the relationship, that thenbuilds trust between you two and
so that when things are goingwell, you can communicate and
we're probably more importantlywhen they aren't going well,
(12:31):
that athlete feels comfortablecoming to you and be like okay,
look, this is where I'm at andthis is what's going on, and and
it's not a hard it could be ahard conversation, but it's not
hard to start the conversationWell and to that point, I think,
when you have, when you havetrust, when you have buy-in from
somebody and you've beenworking with somebody, that's
(12:52):
like you can have the hardconversations and it's not going
to go south.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
And that's really what a relationship, or a
healthy relationship, shouldhave those aspects to it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
Again, it's like any other, anyother relationship, right?
Personal work, whatever.
It has to flow that way Cause,yeah, if it all, if all I'm
doing is building workouts andgiving you a high five, I mean,
I get some people like that, butto me I don't think that you're
maximizing what you could bedoing as an athlete.
(13:25):
Um, and then for me,professionally, honestly, it's
not the most, uh, fulfillingcoaching relationship either,
right Cause, yeah, you're justan interval donkey.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So you know I mentioned that I don't want this
to be an advertisement for CTSor, you know, even for coaching.
But if somebody you know hasbeen listening to this podcast
and other podcasts like fasttalk and all this kind of stuff
and they're, you know, gettingrevved up for, you know, a great
season, or maybe it's next yearlike who, who should have a
coach and who shouldn't have acoach in your opinion?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I think, people, that goes back to relationships.
If you are willing to not be ahundred percent told what to do,
but if you're willing to listenand learn and maybe try
something new, maybe say, hey,this has worked in the past and
and again meld those things in,then yeah, coaching's for you,
right.
If you are going to hire acoach, whoever it is, or or even
(14:27):
like go into the AI end ofthings, if you're going to go
down that rabbit hole and you'renot willing to take the
guidance right, you're alwayssecond guessing it, like, oh,
then it's kind of a waste ofyour money and your time,
honestly.
Um, but yeah, I mean, if you'reopen-minded, you want to
improve, you want a partnershipand whoever it is, that's a good
(14:50):
route to go, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, and I think that openness, the, the, the
willingness to communicate, withit being a two-way street, if
you're willing to engage withthat and and help, like you know
, cause there there's a, there'sa lot of like clerical work
that a coach has to do, meaninglike, get your travel schedule
figure out.
When you're I mean, for workwhen you're traveling for work,
(15:16):
what can you do, what can't youdo while you're away?
Is somebody watching the kidsso you can go to the group ride?
Which days of the week Tuesdayand Thursday, this sort of like
bookkeeping kind oforganizational work.
Yeah, then it's thephysiological stuff, then it's
annual planning and then it'slike having the accountability
(15:37):
of going back and forth.
How do you feel, how did thisgo?
And so if you're willing tohave an open mind of receiving,
uh, feedback, if you're willingto be accountable and have
someone be accountable back toyou, those are all good signs
that you should have a coach.
That like kind of qualifiers.
If.
If you're not, and if you'relike and I hate to say this
(15:57):
because time crunch, athlete,everybody's busy, but if you're
so busy that you can't interactwith your coach, you probably
shouldn't have a coach Like ifyou can't get me your travel
schedule if you're too busy toor and if you're, you know if
you're too busy, it just changesall of the time.
It's a red flag to me, however.
(16:19):
I coach athletes like that andit's fine, but then there's a
lot more like give and take oroscillation of how we're
building a program, meaning likeI'll build stuff out for three
or four weeks and my goal isjust get it done this week, like
just get all this done.
If you miss a day, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Well, I always clean it up next time, yeah, and I do
the same thing.
Right, I have people like that.
But we have like a goal tile,or whatever you want to call it,
on the beginning of the weekand say like here, here's the
workouts for the week.
Preferably get them in thisorder.
If not, try to get as many asyou can.
Um, we'll rebalance it at thebeginning of next week, sort of
thing.
And, and those, I think thosefolks I mean, cause I see you
know everyone's busy andeveryone has moments where it
(17:01):
doesn't go to plan.
But to to your point, if, ifyou can, you know, if you are
willing to communicate back tothe coach, like, okay, well,
obviously we see it if itdoesn't go right.
But okay, hey, I know thisisn't going to go right next
week because X, y and Z havejust come up.
Then again, yeah, I think itcan be a fruitful thing.
(17:23):
Right, I did a little bit of Iforget what the program was, but
there was some AI thing that wekind of monkeyed with.
And you know, in monkeying withthe various permutations, I mean
it did pretty well, but itdidn't in the sense that you
know if you were honest with itand you gave it some info.
It still was like, okay, well,you know, we assume you're okay
and just charge forward with thewhatever seven by twos.
Um, so you know, can I say youcan't really talk to the AI, I
(17:49):
think, or I suppose you can, buthow reactive it is or not, um,
yeah, and I think not not thereyet, I guess I suppose you can,
but how reactive it is or not,yeah, not there yet, I guess I
wouldn't say it's there yet.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I think that there's some cool AI stuff and there's
some cool AI stuff that I'mcurrently working with.
There's some stuff I've seenthat wasn't great, but I think
in the way of building intervals, building and and analyzing
things quickly, that's supercool.
And I think, as coaches, ai isreally going to enhance what we
(18:19):
do and I think that if, ifyou've got, like a, either a
physiological background orinterest or an engineer
background, and then you havetime, um, to sink in in this and
you love tinkering, that too,you can be a self-coached
athlete and I don't think thatyou need a coach necessarily.
I think a coach can helpexpedite some of that process
(18:40):
and bring in some of the art,even though we steal or utilize
some ideas and concepts fromthat engineering and computer
modeling sort of background inour sport now for great results.
However, you know, like I said,like the best way to expedite
(19:00):
that, that information for youif you're training, racing and
prepping for something, coach isa pretty good way to do that.
However, I've seen a lot ofpeople with that kind of
background and it goes fine forthem because they capture onto
that and they listen tothemselves and it's all good,
you know.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I think that's well.
So that's the thing, right, if,if they can be honest with
themselves and listen to howthey're feeling and take that
feedback whether it's automatedor someone and then understand
what to do with it.
Right, that's the importantthing versus the I'm exhausted,
I can't get off the couch, butI'm still going to go do this.
Right, that's, that's a problem.
(19:36):
No-transcript yeah, punchthrough Cause we have or or yeah
(19:59):
, yeah, suck it up Right, um, oras best you can, yeah, or at
least try.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
But I think the trickiest part about like
self-coached is your emotion andhow to detach from that.
And that's where I think acoach or an AI program sure we
don't, we don't have thatemotion, the okay, but the coach
has empathy.
So they know what you know afour by 12 feels like, they know
(20:27):
what a seven by two feels likeand in the associated
intensities with that, they knowwhat a you know day three and
four of a huge block feels like.
The ai may not, it may getthere soon, right, but it but in
the way of training has beengoing good, but I had and sleep
was going good and then all of asudden it was sleep because my
(20:48):
kid woke up and then I had to goon kid duty and all that.
Now what?
Here again, the coach comes into help you figure out a problem
, which is another element oranother hat that we wear with
being a friend, being a mentor,being a problem solver and all
this kind of stuff.
Absolutely yeah, colin, wouldyou say that you coach Everybody
(21:11):
the same?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
No, I, I I'm, generally speaking, I I'm, I
guess, maybe a moderatecheerleader coach.
I'm not.
You know, I'm not setting offfireworks all the time Like if,
if you really did somethingawesome, yeah, but within that,
yeah, I mean, you know, justunderstanding how people
(21:34):
communicate and personalitiesand who you can push a little
more to the point you made therea minute ago, and then who
other at other points you'relike to the empathy standpoint.
Look, I know you could do this,but if I make you do this or
make you do it this way, it'sgoing to bite us today, tomorrow
, at some point it's going toget us.
(21:55):
I've got a um, a rider I startedworking with I guess our second
season now, but that was one ofthe biggest things that we we
worked on um when she startedworking with me and then, as we
moved through the season, wereally started to understand how
to pull the levers the rightway on the right day.
Um, she's actually one of thepeople that's doing the 60
(22:16):
minutes of X and just doing iton trail right now, instead of
four by 12 or whatever, whereshe at least has the option,
cause I trust that she can makethe best and make that judgment.
But you know that understandingversus you know how she
operates versus another riderwhere I can say, look, look,
we're doing four by 15 becauseyou're going to go off the rails
(22:36):
if I, if you do it the otherway.
Um, so, yeah, they're all alittle different.
Yeah, I doubt personalities.
Right, I mean that's for allindividual.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, that's cheesy is that's not cheesy, it's just
reality, right, like people,they have different
personalities.
People have things that makethem tick and talk in different
ways, and I think a coach tunesinto that.
Um, and I remember, like as ayoung coach, I talk about Dean a
lot on this podcast.
He's he's a mentor of mine, um,yeah, but we always would say
(23:07):
Dean's a chameleon, right Causehe would work with.
He would work with so manydifferent athlete groups, from
NHL to motorsports to cycling,to the weekend warrior that's
trying to finish Leadville andeverything in between.
But he could communicate andrelate to those people and
motivate them too in his weirdDean goofy ways.
(23:30):
But you're similar to that,colin, because tell us a little
bit of what you've been doingrecently.
But, for the record and foreverybody listening here,
colin's been with the companyfor 80,000 years and he used to
run the Brevard Training Centerfor the CTS Brevard Training
Center and he ran a whole teamof coaches and he has a mountain
(23:51):
bike racing background as wellas a swimming background and
downhill racing and all thiskind of stuff.
So tell us what you've been upto recently.
Weave in some coaching to that.
I've got a couple morequestions for you before we end
this thing.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, so most recently we relocated back up to
the northeast from Brevard andI started some coaching again,
which, before CTS, I worked forsome some USA swimming club
teams, youth development teams,and I worked at Chapel Hill as a
coach and things like that.
So it's been fun to 23 some oddyears later, get back on the
(24:31):
pool deck and apply a lot ofthis cool stuff that guys like
Dean and Jim Lehman and Chrisand all these people right that
I've been exposed to via CTSthat are incredibly smart, um,
and granted, yeah, it's a lot ofcycling, but you know like we
we I did some of the hockeystuff with Dean, for example and
you learn how to apply justgood education, right, and then
(24:56):
sound coaching, relationshipbuilding and all that.
And then you know, morph itinto the sport that you're
working with, and I had aswimming background and I
coached it.
So it was like I was goingcompletely blind.
You know, like not going in andcoaching pickleball, which I've
never played, but it's a ton offun, right, because you can
take all these cool things thatyou've learned from the science
(25:17):
side, from the relationship side, and then you know it's like
well, we're standing there atyour kitchen eating enchiladas.
It's like it's.
It's been a really funchallenge to say, okay, well,
what can I do with this stuffthat I know and how quickly can
I help these, these athletesthat that range from, you know,
eight-year-old kids getting intothe sport all the way up to
(25:38):
kids going to Olympic trials,and it's been a ton of fun.
Um, and and for me, the and thisisn't a remote thing, this is,
you know, we're working withthese athletes every day.
However, one thing that I didget to do is bring in some
technology.
Um, so we, we do use a uh, anapp that helped me.
(26:00):
I write the workouts and thingslike that so that when the
athletes can't make it topractice, they have it on their
phone and they give me feedbackand they do the thing.
Um, and it trends and chartsand all those things like we
have in training peaks andwhatnot.
Not quite as well, but the, theabout it goes back to just the
trust and the relationship thatwe've built with these teenagers
(26:21):
.
Right, and they can, becauseteenagers are hard to work with,
right, I mean, I've got acouple.
I love them, but, man, somedays you're pulling teeth to get
information.
Yeah, it is right,no-transcript.
(27:01):
And it's so important because,then, I think there's two things
.
One, we know how they'refeeling Right, which you know,
we're teaching them more andmore, like this is okay, tired,
this isn't, but it's buildingtrust, and they know that we
care about them, versus like,okay, here's the thing, just go
hammer, right.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, and to that end and how to build trust is
people don't care how much youknow until they know how much
you care.
I mean it's cheesy, but it'strue 100% Right.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But Dean was like what was it Care before you
share, or something like that.
I think he used to say the sameidea.
I mean, that was one of thethings that he said a long time
ago.
And then you know, like themost underrated thing is just
asking how people feel.
Right and overrated issometimes all this technology
that we have and you forget that, hey, this is human and they're
(27:53):
not a math equation, and allthe things.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So that's, that's how you do it in person.
Would you say that you dosomething similar with your
remote based amateur athletes?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean I, it depends onthe communication style.
It seems like, especially afterCOVID, texts have become cause,
everyone's working at home,right, and so they're
multitasking and they're intheir jammies texting me under
the table while they're on boardmeeting or whatever.
But I mean most of myinteraction is usually starting
with hey, how did that feelright?
Or hey, how's this week looking, yeah, right, or or whatever
(28:28):
it's.
I mean yeah, there might be ascreenshot of the thing, but
it's usually starting that wayand then we progress into the
okay, this is what I saw, orthis is that.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
And I think for myself I don't.
I mean I'm a bit of a 14 yearold like on text message because
I'm trying to get thatinformation quick, like in the
mornings and whatnot, and Iwould say I'm doing that
especially when athletes I knoware in a heavy training phase,
coming up to a raise or kind of,when it matters most If we're
(28:59):
just building base, like in thebase, and build kind of time
period, I'm not as hot and heavyon the communication.
But then as the intensity kicksup and travels kicking up and
things are more volatile, that'susually when the communication
scattergun starts going Right,that's usually when the
communication scattergun startsgoing yeah.
Right, and so in that way Ithink this is important too from
somebody who wonders whatcoaching is like.
(29:21):
And I try to tell this to myathletes coming in is like all
right, first month or two we'reprobably going to over
communicate because I'm tryingto learn who you are, how you
are, how you react to training,and I want and I'm going to
teach you some of the principlesand the things that I, how I
coach.
Right After that it's more likea steady state for a while.
Then, if it's a race, if you'reinto races and events and stuff
(29:44):
, then it's probably going totick up and then I'm going to be
like in your face.
But then transition phase andbase phase I'm going to be like
stepping back a bit and thatdoesn't mean that I care less,
but it does mean that thatprocess and kind of that
oscillation of communication andaccountability and stuff, it
does ebb and flow or theconversations are different.
(30:04):
The conversations are done, yeahwe talk more about tech stuff.
Like you heard me talking allabout grips and tire width,
entire pressure, and you're likeman, oh my god right, yeah, he
likes to nerd out, and so do I.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I like getting the week yeah, I, yeah, yeah, I I do
as much as the next person, butI had to give you a little
ration of crap about that.
But but yeah, that's the thing,right.
And then certain people like totalk about some things more
than others and that's that'sokay, although, like I, I'm
completely up front with peoplethat you know, fridays I
generally will reserve fortalking about critical weekend
(30:38):
stuff like racing or this orthat, and that's not the day to
like catch me about what filetooth pattern is the best this
week.
Do that on Tuesday, unlessyou're racing and you need to.
We may need to make a decisionabout which file tooth pattern
is pertinent to the weekend'srace, but hopefully we have it
dialed long before Friday,before the event.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Last question for you , Colin, then we'll wrap this up
.
If somebody has a coach, dothey need a coach forever?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's a good question, um, in some regards, I
think that I've done the bestjob when I coach myself out of a
job.
As far as the intervals go,right, um, I I've got some
people coming up on 20 years inthe same breath and our
relationship has changed Right,and you know, they know about
(31:30):
what they need to do, right, um,and we sort of joke a couple of
them like we'll be doing sometesting, whatever ftp testing or
something like that.
Okay, we know it's going to bewithin five watts and nine times
out of ten we get right becausewe've just reached that point.
But in the same breath one ofthe things that was fun this
year with with one fellow Ithink next season's our 20th um
(31:55):
he's completely changed hisgoals, what he wants to do with
racing, and so that's refreshedsome of the interval workouts
and things like that.
But it was really good in thesense that we had some excellent
conversations about like, okay,well, this is where you're at
as an athlete, this is whereyou're at with your family.
What can we do differently?
What excites you?
(32:15):
Right, and, and so in that case, I think it's a great.
Yeah, I mean not maybe forever,but very long-term, yeah, as
long as you're getting on withthe person and it's a fruitful
relationship.
Sure, you know, if you feelgood after X amount of years
that your coach has educated youon the four by twelves or
whatever, and you don't feel youneed the relationship as much,
(32:38):
then yeah, maybe it's.
Or maybe it's just time forchange, right, like a different
perspective.
And that's normal too, right?
I mean, we've both been doingthis long enough that both sides
might say like, hey, look, thishas been awesome.
However, I think you needsomething else, something
different and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, I'm glad you said what you said about kind of
like coaching yourself out of ajob.
I was.
Those were like when we wereriding today, I was thinking
about what we're going to talkabout and and, and I remember
thinking to myself, I'm likewhen I'm doing a good job, I'm
essentially working.
If I, if I do a good job, I'mworking myself out of that,
(33:13):
because I'm teaching you as wellas coaching you, and in that
way, it's a bit of a gamble,right, because to do coaching
well, that is exactly what youhave to do.
And I even tell my athletes nowI never well, I don't think I
was smart enough back then but Itell them now.
I say the reason I'm tellingyou this and telling you this
again is because if I'm dead andgone, right, I want you to be
(33:36):
able to handle this for a while.
Or, more importantly, when I gooff on vacation for a week, I
want you to not freak out whensomething happens, because I'm
still human too.
I still am not as accessible atcertain points throughout the
year, and I need you to learn inthis process too, because
you're going to be a way betterathlete if so yeah, and even if
(34:00):
they keep coaching with you forhowever long, if they understand
the why, then they're going todo it better, or they can
understand how to communicate toyou like I need to do, 60
minutes broken up on trailversus 4x15, or whatever, right,
yeah, and so in that way, whenyou're teaching them, you're
also like instilling confidencein them too, because there's
(34:20):
just there's some stuff too, andthis is the other thing about a
remote-based coach versus, uh,in, like in person, where some
of your downhillers wanted youto come more in person to over
in France, over in um weirdplace of the world Right, but
you just couldn't, based on whatyou're doing, remote-based
athlete won't have the coachholding their hand the whole
(34:42):
time, and so you have to be ableto make some decisions on the
fly, and I think that is veryunderstandable.
And I've even had some athleteslike call or text me when
they're at the race and it'slike high stakes, high pressure,
what do I do?
And I try to make myselfavailable when I know it's like
I already said, like when I knowit's going to be like I'm here,
but I'm not always going to bethere.
(35:03):
So I think too, from a remotebased setting, you also have to
have some understanding of whatthat looks like, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
And what are they going to doin the middle of the race when
they can't text you?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, that's it.
And I think, to wrap this thingup, I mean, coaching is a
process to help you betteryourself and there's a lot of
different hats that the coach isgoing to wear along in that
process, but the biggest thingis developing the relationship
and if you have time,willingness and eagerness to
(35:38):
build another relationship inyour life, you're a good
candidate for a coach.
To get a coach, would you agree?
Yeah, 100%, absolutely.
But in that way, coaches aren'tperfect.
They're going to miss thingshere and there because we are
human.
You know, coaches aren't perfect.
They're going to miss thingshere and there, um, cause we are
human.
And but I think, with thetechnology that's moving along
(35:59):
the way, it's going to help usto bridge that gap a little bit
on both sides, to both get goodinformation quickly digested and
analyze it quickly.
So I'm I'm excited to see wherethe AI and kind of tech
revolution goes with it, but I,I, you know, I I don't think
that the coach is going to beedged out entirely person.
Uh, but all that being said,colin, thank you for taking time
(36:20):
out of the busy day of eatingpastries and riding mountain
bikes that you've had it's.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
It's been wildly busy here in your living room.
Yes, Jump on the pocket.
I know I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Um, I really appreciate picking your brain
and and just uh, just haveanother coach in the house.
It's pretty fun.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It's fun, yeah, yeah, fun, to trade ideas.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well to all of our listeners.
I hope this helped to, like Isaid, pull back the veils a
little bit on what coaching is,who coaches are some kind of
off-the-cuff banter that we'vehad today, which was a very
different sort of podcast formatthan I usually do.
Uh, so if this spurred anyquestions on or curiosities, uh,
(37:00):
head over to train rightcombackslash podcast and ask
whatever question you want to me, colin or any of our coaches.
Okay, uh, you can write that inand if it's specific to Colin,
I'll get that over to him andI'll get them back on the show.
But in that way, if thistriggers a little bit more and
you want a consultation or youwant to work with a coach, this
is great.
But this is not the point ofthis podcast.
(37:22):
It wasn't that.
It's simply to communicate andhelp you understand what we do a
little bit more.
And if that, you know, pushesyou over the edge a little bit
to better yourself in the, inthe endurance coaching or in the
endurance training space, allthe better.
So, colin, any last words?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Just to echo what you said if, hopefully, this arms
people with enough informationthat they can, they can decide
if it's right for them and theycan make a choice and they can
go talk to someone and findsomebody and be better, right,
so that that, at the end of theday, is the goal for us and all
have people do things better andhave fun doing it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Thanks for joining us on the time crunch cyclist
podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even moreactionable training advice, head
over to train rightcombackslash newsletter and
subscribe to our free weeklypublication.
Each week you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
(38:22):
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance even if
you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches whomake up the team at CTS.
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
What is coaching?
That's a super basic question,but it's a good one, and for
(00:54):
some who have been athletestheir whole life, they've had
many coaches and probably a mixof good and not so good coaches.
And in the endurance world,though, in what we're going to
talk about today, we're going toreally kind of press into.
What does a coaching processlook like for an amateur athlete
working with a remote-basedcoach?
(01:15):
Now I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, here to answer some of
those questions and pull backthe veil on what coaching is.
Is CTS Premier Coach ColinIzzard.
Colin, welcome back to the show.
Thanks for having me again.
Yeah, man, and you know speciallittle tidbit here for all the
listeners Colin is actually inmy house right now.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It's a little weird being on the other side of the
wall.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, this is true, you are about as the crow flies,
maybe five feet.
Uh, yes, this is true, uh, youare.
You are about, uh, as the crowflies, maybe five feet away from
me, but there is a wall inbetween us.
Yeah, and the way that this lowbudget podcast works is we got
to be in separate rooms to talkto each other.
But that's fine and dandy,Colin.
Uh, since everyone knows nowwhere you are, uh, can you tell
us a little bit more of what wedid today?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
yeah, so we we actually and this kind of is
nice for the the purpose of whatwe're chatting about we had a
great mountain bike ride, uh,and some awesome trails right
out of adam's front door.
Um, just just ripped about, um,and the the cool thing to me
was getting to see a differentarea that I've never been to
(02:27):
with an experienced person.
That's those, the trails.
So not dissimilar to probablysome of the stuff we'll get into
here.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And even before you know, just want to let everybody
know that not every day do Irip the mountain bike for three
hours and then have a podcastwith a friend.
This is a pretty unique Fridayand I'm just stoked Colin's
passing through and we can makethis happen.
But before that I mean in themorning we woke up, started
drinking some coffee.
One of my athletes was racingat Brabant's to peel and so we
(02:58):
watched bike racing, then webuilt programs, then we were
doing the keyboard donkey work,like Colin likes to say emails,
text message back and forth andthen pretty soon we were like we
should probably get out andride the bike, right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yep, probably yeah, so we had time to do this too,
as the day was getting on.
Yes, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So, but with that and some chatter about what this
podcast is going to be like,cause I've had athletes, or I've
had people that I ride with andalso people who have never had
a coach before ask me, like whatis coaching?
Like what do you do?
Or my parents, like I'm prettysure my mom still doesn't really
(03:40):
know what I do.
It's a very weird occupation.
So, colin, if I can just askyou the pure question, like what
is coaching?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
So my, my way I look at this is it's, it's, it's
guidance, mentorship, friendship, not necessarily in that order,
uh and, and it changes orderdepending on where the athletes
at in their athletic journey,right, and it can change weekly,
(04:10):
daily, yearly, whatever thecase is.
But, but that that's thebiggest part to me.
Or the other stuff is, you know, the science and the building
of the schedule and all thatthat.
I mean, it's an important partof it, to be sure, but I've
always found that that coachingreally is.
(04:30):
It's a relationship and, likeany other relationship, it can
be really fruitful if you putsome work into it and and do all
the things that you would do inany other.
You know, human interaction,relationship.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, and that's you know.
A huge part of what I want totalk about today is that
relationship, because I'llpreface this with a disclaimer
saying that this is not apodcast intended to be an
advertisement for CTS inparticular, or even to get a
coach.
It is simply to, like I said,pull the veil back on what
(05:03):
coaching actually is, and howdoes it compare to static
training program versus AIprogram versus self-coaching and
that sort of thing?
And so, to me, when I thinkabout, like, what coaching is
and what we do, it has all ofthose elements that Colin is
talking about, and the coachingitself is a process by which one
person is helping anotherperson achieve their goals or
(05:27):
try to improve some aspect aboutthemselves, and in our world,
it's probably some aspect oftheir physiology, their
psychology, their bodycomposition and their maybe
their race or or event savviness.
Those are the things that wereally develop in our athletes.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Absolutely yeah.
And then again, sort of likewhat I was saying before, it
depends on where they are right,because you're going to do
those things differently intodifferent percentages as you go
on with a person right yeah,someone that you've had for
seasons.
It's automatic writing training, but you know what they need to
do and they know what they needto do.
So then you are looking at okay, well, let's, let's talk about
(06:10):
race craft.
You've got an amazing engine.
We know that, we've done thedevelopment, but it's utilized
poorly.
How do we actually use it?
Well, to your advantage that'sa huge.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Well, that that is a huge one.
And I think it brings me to oneof my first points is I think a
lot of people think coaching,or what a coach does, is just
build a bunch of intervals forthe week, and then the athlete
goes and does it, and then youtalk about it and there's
basically like an intervalbuilding machine.
Is that what you do, colin, areyou?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
an interval building machine.
There is an element to that,yes.
However, I would say that istruthfully.
That is the easiest part of thejob and quite often takes the
least amount of time.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I know probably some people don't want to hear that,
but really that's pulling backthe nail, like a lot of people
think that building theintervals is actually.
But it's not Sorry to interrupt, but that's the Sorry to
interrupt you, but that's true.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, absolutely Right.
I mean, we've both been doingthis a while and anyone that's
been doing it a while and that'seven halfway competent, that
should be one of the easiestparts of the job, without a
doubt.
Right, identifying maybe whatto do when.
That should be easy but alsotakes a little more thought.
But yeah, you know, there'snothing magical about like four
(07:30):
by 10 versus four by 12 per se,other than progression Right and
and in that way I meanfollowing the principles of
training, which progression isone of them.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Progressive overload, in particular, is is important.
But I think, too, this rollsback to a couple of podcasts I
did ago now where, uh, basicallyyou know asking the question,
do we actually need to dointervals?
And I gave a bunch of examplesof when and how and why you
wouldn't be doing intervals,including monitoring exercise
(08:01):
through kilojoule expenditure,training fatigue resistance or
building durability, or justriding around, enjoying riding
your bike and exercising andstaying fit without having the
structure all of the time, whichis super important.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, yeah, or I mean .
So.
I've been doing this for a while, but recently we've started
implementing it with a couple offolks where it's like, okay, we
, we know, we want X amount ofminutes of of whatever intensity
, that we're working on energysystem, and you know, they just,
instead of doing four by 12 orwhatever the case is, they're an
experienced enough athlete thatwe can have a good conversation
(08:40):
about it and say, okay, well,look, I want whatever 60 minutes
of this work today and you'vegot a box to play in.
You know from X to Y, which werepower, you know um, rp or
whatever that that representsthat area that we want to be in.
And now you go ride the bikeand let the terrain dictate it
and and ride inside the box.
(09:00):
I want you to override it andpreferably don't underwrite it
too much.
But that's, to me, is a greatthing that you know you can have
that conversation with someoneand they've matured enough as an
athlete to understand whatyou're getting at and understand
the purpose, the greaterpurpose behind the workout.
And yes, it is an interval,quote, quote, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
And then mentally, for that person too, it's can be
more fruitful and you're stillgetting at the root thing of
whatever part of theirphysiology you're trying to
improve for whatever, purpose,yeah, yeah, and so in that
regard, I mean you're puttingsome bumpers on to kind of steer
them in the direction, but it'sa little bit more of an
abstract workout or goals thatare more abstract within the
(09:44):
bike riding realms of sorts.
They stay ahead of the athletein the way of, you know, guiding
them, leading them in that way,but it's not that like super
programmed, strict, you knowkind of dictatorship sort of
role, which some coaches do.
That's fine and some athletesprefer that.
(10:04):
That's not my coaching style,but I do think that there is.
That coach-athlete relationshipis much more healthy when we
have some abstract times, wehave some strict times, kind of
there's time for both,absolutely yeah, hey, we got to
rein this in.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We're going to be ultra precise, or no?
We've got this big block oftime.
Let's understand what it'sabout and figure out different
ways to get through it that arefruitful for you so we've talked
about relationship right, andcoach-athlete relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
One of the things that I think distinguishes CTS
from others, or what goodcoaching companies do, is they
pay attention to that relationalside of things and try to pair
coaches with athletes that havenot only similar goal, uh, like
goal interest meaning.
Like you know, colin, if youraced the blood to 100 and or
(10:59):
mountain bikes, right, yourmountain bike racer background,
right, um, and you have aswimming background, which we'll
talk about here in a second Um,if there's overlap there,
whatever that Venn diagram is,we're going to pair that athlete
, at least to have aconversation with you to see if
it's a good fit.
Then there's another layer oflike, communication,
relatability and like do youjive?
(11:19):
Like, can you talk more aboutthat?
Like, have you ever rejected anathlete because you didn't jive
?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
absolutely yeah, and I've been rejected too, and and
it goes both because it goesback to, I think what I
mentioned earlier and you knowwe this is what I like is when
you actually, as as a coach,you've reached that point in
your career where you and I dothis right, like we might say
hey, you know, athlete X, you'reawesome, but I think I might be
better for you, here's whyRight.
And then you have thatconversation and again, it
(11:48):
doesn't really it matters whatthat coach's training philosophy
is, for sure, but it mattersmuch more to me that that
initial conversation or two aregood, they're smooth, you can
actually have a conversationwith this person, right.
And yeah, sometimes it's alittle awkward to start, like
any initial conversation, but Ithink the best athlete
relationships I've had over theyears, it's almost it's like
(12:11):
when you find a new friend rightand it's just this automatic,
you click.
Yes, you're talking about thetraining.
It's almost it's like when youfind a new friend right and it's
just this automatic you clickyes, you're talking about the
training, but then you start toinject in like, oh, I have a dog
, cool, so do I.
Cool, you know, it's just likethose things that then deepen
the relationship, that thenbuilds trust between you two and
so that when things are goingwell, you can communicate and
we're probably more importantlywhen they aren't going well,
(12:31):
that athlete feels comfortablecoming to you and be like okay,
look, this is where I'm at andthis is what's going on, and and
it's not a hard it could be ahard conversation, but it's not
hard to start the conversationWell and to that point, I think,
when you have, when you havetrust, when you have buy-in from
somebody and you've beenworking with somebody, that's
(12:52):
like you can have the hardconversations and it's not going
to go south.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
And that's really what a relationship, or a
healthy relationship, shouldhave those aspects to it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
Again, it's like any other, anyother relationship, right?
Personal work, whatever.
It has to flow that way Cause,yeah, if it all, if all I'm
doing is building workouts andgiving you a high five, I mean,
I get some people like that, butto me I don't think that you're
maximizing what you could bedoing as an athlete.
(13:25):
Um, and then for me,professionally, honestly, it's
not the most, uh, fulfillingcoaching relationship either,
right Cause, yeah, you're justan interval donkey.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So you know I mentioned that I don't want this
to be an advertisement for CTSor, you know, even for coaching.
But if somebody you know hasbeen listening to this podcast
and other podcasts like fasttalk and all this kind of stuff
and they're, you know, gettingrevved up for, you know, a great
season, or maybe it's next yearlike who, who should have a
coach and who shouldn't have acoach in your opinion?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I think, people, that goes back to relationships.
If you are willing to not be ahundred percent told what to do,
but if you're willing to listenand learn and maybe try
something new, maybe say, hey,this has worked in the past and
and again meld those things in,then yeah, coaching's for you,
right.
If you are going to hire acoach, whoever it is, or or even
(14:27):
like go into the AI end ofthings, if you're going to go
down that rabbit hole and you'renot willing to take the
guidance right, you're alwayssecond guessing it, like, oh,
then it's kind of a waste ofyour money and your time,
honestly.
Um, but yeah, I mean, if you'reopen-minded, you want to
improve, you want a partnershipand whoever it is, that's a good
(14:50):
route to go, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, and I think that openness, the, the, the
willingness to communicate, withit being a two-way street, if
you're willing to engage withthat and and help, like you know
, cause there there's a, there'sa lot of like clerical work
that a coach has to do, meaninglike, get your travel schedule
figure out.
When you're I mean, for workwhen you're traveling for work,
(15:16):
what can you do, what can't youdo while you're away?
Is somebody watching the kidsso you can go to the group ride?
Which days of the week Tuesdayand Thursday, this sort of like
bookkeeping kind oforganizational work.
Yeah, then it's thephysiological stuff, then it's
annual planning and then it'slike having the accountability
(15:37):
of going back and forth.
How do you feel, how did thisgo?
And so if you're willing tohave an open mind of receiving,
uh, feedback, if you're willingto be accountable and have
someone be accountable back toyou, those are all good signs
that you should have a coach.
That like kind of qualifiers.
If.
If you're not, and if you'relike and I hate to say this
(15:57):
because time crunch, athlete,everybody's busy, but if you're
so busy that you can't interactwith your coach, you probably
shouldn't have a coach Like ifyou can't get me your travel
schedule if you're too busy toor and if you're, you know if
you're too busy, it just changesall of the time.
It's a red flag to me, however.
(16:19):
I coach athletes like that andit's fine, but then there's a
lot more like give and take oroscillation of how we're
building a program, meaning likeI'll build stuff out for three
or four weeks and my goal isjust get it done this week, like
just get all this done.
If you miss a day, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Well, I always clean it up next time, yeah, and I do
the same thing.
Right, I have people like that.
But we have like a goal tile,or whatever you want to call it,
on the beginning of the weekand say like here, here's the
workouts for the week.
Preferably get them in thisorder.
If not, try to get as many asyou can.
Um, we'll rebalance it at thebeginning of next week, sort of
thing.
And, and those, I think thosefolks I mean, cause I see you
know everyone's busy andeveryone has moments where it
(17:01):
doesn't go to plan.
But to to your point, if, ifyou can, you know, if you are
willing to communicate back tothe coach, like, okay, well,
obviously we see it if itdoesn't go right.
But okay, hey, I know thisisn't going to go right next
week because X, y and Z havejust come up.
Then again, yeah, I think itcan be a fruitful thing.
(17:23):
Right, I did a little bit of Iforget what the program was, but
there was some AI thing that wekind of monkeyed with.
And you know, in monkeying withthe various permutations, I mean
it did pretty well, but itdidn't in the sense that you
know if you were honest with itand you gave it some info.
It still was like, okay, well,you know, we assume you're okay
and just charge forward with thewhatever seven by twos.
Um, so you know, can I say youcan't really talk to the AI, I
(17:49):
think, or I suppose you can, buthow reactive it is or not, um,
yeah, and I think not not thereyet, I guess I suppose you can,
but how reactive it is or not,yeah, not there yet, I guess I
wouldn't say it's there yet.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I think that there's some cool AI stuff and there's
some cool AI stuff that I'mcurrently working with.
There's some stuff I've seenthat wasn't great, but I think
in the way of building intervals, building and and analyzing
things quickly, that's supercool.
And I think, as coaches, ai isreally going to enhance what we
(18:19):
do and I think that if, ifyou've got, like a, either a
physiological background orinterest or an engineer
background, and then you havetime, um, to sink in in this and
you love tinkering, that too,you can be a self-coached
athlete and I don't think thatyou need a coach necessarily.
I think a coach can helpexpedite some of that process
(18:40):
and bring in some of the art,even though we steal or utilize
some ideas and concepts fromthat engineering and computer
modeling sort of background inour sport now for great results.
However, you know, like I said,like the best way to expedite
(19:00):
that, that information for youif you're training, racing and
prepping for something, coach isa pretty good way to do that.
However, I've seen a lot ofpeople with that kind of
background and it goes fine forthem because they capture onto
that and they listen tothemselves and it's all good,
you know.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I think that's well.
So that's the thing, right, if,if they can be honest with
themselves and listen to howthey're feeling and take that
feedback whether it's automatedor someone and then understand
what to do with it.
Right, that's the importantthing versus the I'm exhausted,
I can't get off the couch, butI'm still going to go do this.
Right, that's, that's a problem.
(19:36):
No-transcript yeah, punchthrough Cause we have or or yeah
(19:59):
, yeah, suck it up Right, um, oras best you can, yeah, or at
least try.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
But I think the trickiest part about like
self-coached is your emotion andhow to detach from that.
And that's where I think acoach or an AI program sure we
don't, we don't have thatemotion, the okay, but the coach
has empathy.
So they know what you know afour by 12 feels like, they know
(20:27):
what a seven by two feels likeand in the associated
intensities with that, they knowwhat a you know day three and
four of a huge block feels like.
The ai may not, it may getthere soon, right, but it but in
the way of training has beengoing good, but I had and sleep
was going good and then all of asudden it was sleep because my
(20:48):
kid woke up and then I had to goon kid duty and all that.
Now what?
Here again, the coach comes into help you figure out a problem
, which is another element oranother hat that we wear with
being a friend, being a mentor,being a problem solver and all
this kind of stuff.
Absolutely yeah, colin, wouldyou say that you coach Everybody
(21:11):
the same?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
No, I, I I'm, generally speaking, I I'm, I
guess, maybe a moderatecheerleader coach.
I'm not.
You know, I'm not setting offfireworks all the time Like if,
if you really did somethingawesome, yeah, but within that,
yeah, I mean, you know, justunderstanding how people
(21:34):
communicate and personalitiesand who you can push a little
more to the point you made therea minute ago, and then who
other at other points you'relike to the empathy standpoint.
Look, I know you could do this,but if I make you do this or
make you do it this way, it'sgoing to bite us today, tomorrow
, at some point it's going toget us.
(21:55):
I've got a um, a rider I startedworking with I guess our second
season now, but that was one ofthe biggest things that we we
worked on um when she startedworking with me and then, as we
moved through the season, wereally started to understand how
to pull the levers the rightway on the right day.
Um, she's actually one of thepeople that's doing the 60
(22:16):
minutes of X and just doing iton trail right now, instead of
four by 12 or whatever, whereshe at least has the option,
cause I trust that she can makethe best and make that judgment.
But you know that understandingversus you know how she
operates versus another riderwhere I can say, look, look,
we're doing four by 15 becauseyou're going to go off the rails
(22:36):
if I, if you do it the otherway.
Um, so, yeah, they're all alittle different.
Yeah, I doubt personalities.
Right, I mean that's for allindividual.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, that's cheesy is that's not cheesy, it's just
reality, right, like people,they have different
personalities.
People have things that makethem tick and talk in different
ways, and I think a coach tunesinto that.
Um, and I remember, like as ayoung coach, I talk about Dean a
lot on this podcast.
He's he's a mentor of mine, um,yeah, but we always would say
(23:07):
Dean's a chameleon, right Causehe would work with.
He would work with so manydifferent athlete groups, from
NHL to motorsports to cycling,to the weekend warrior that's
trying to finish Leadville andeverything in between.
But he could communicate andrelate to those people and
motivate them too in his weirdDean goofy ways.
(23:30):
But you're similar to that,colin, because tell us a little
bit of what you've been doingrecently.
But, for the record and foreverybody listening here,
colin's been with the companyfor 80,000 years and he used to
run the Brevard Training Centerfor the CTS Brevard Training
Center and he ran a whole teamof coaches and he has a mountain
(23:51):
bike racing background as wellas a swimming background and
downhill racing and all thiskind of stuff.
So tell us what you've been upto recently.
Weave in some coaching to that.
I've got a couple morequestions for you before we end
this thing.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, so most recently we relocated back up to
the northeast from Brevard andI started some coaching again,
which, before CTS, I worked forsome some USA swimming club
teams, youth development teams,and I worked at Chapel Hill as a
coach and things like that.
So it's been fun to 23 some oddyears later, get back on the
(24:31):
pool deck and apply a lot ofthis cool stuff that guys like
Dean and Jim Lehman and Chrisand all these people right that
I've been exposed to via CTSthat are incredibly smart, um,
and granted, yeah, it's a lot ofcycling, but you know like we
we I did some of the hockeystuff with Dean, for example and
you learn how to apply justgood education, right, and then
(24:56):
sound coaching, relationshipbuilding and all that.
And then you know, morph itinto the sport that you're
working with, and I had aswimming background and I
coached it.
So it was like I was goingcompletely blind.
You know, like not going in andcoaching pickleball, which I've
never played, but it's a ton offun, right, because you can
take all these cool things thatyou've learned from the science
(25:17):
side, from the relationship side, and then you know it's like
well, we're standing there atyour kitchen eating enchiladas.
It's like it's.
It's been a really funchallenge to say, okay, well,
what can I do with this stuffthat I know and how quickly can
I help these, these athletesthat that range from, you know,
eight-year-old kids getting intothe sport all the way up to
(25:38):
kids going to Olympic trials,and it's been a ton of fun.
Um, and and for me, the and thisisn't a remote thing, this is,
you know, we're working withthese athletes every day.
However, one thing that I didget to do is bring in some
technology.
Um, so we, we do use a uh, anapp that helped me.
(26:00):
I write the workouts and thingslike that so that when the
athletes can't make it topractice, they have it on their
phone and they give me feedbackand they do the thing.
Um, and it trends and chartsand all those things like we
have in training peaks andwhatnot.
Not quite as well, but the, theabout it goes back to just the
trust and the relationship thatwe've built with these teenagers
(26:21):
.
Right, and they can, becauseteenagers are hard to work with,
right, I mean, I've got acouple.
I love them, but, man, somedays you're pulling teeth to get
information.
Yeah, it is right,no-transcript.
(27:01):
And it's so important because,then, I think there's two things
.
One, we know how they'refeeling Right, which you know,
we're teaching them more andmore, like this is okay, tired,
this isn't, but it's buildingtrust, and they know that we
care about them, versus like,okay, here's the thing, just go
hammer, right.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, and to that end and how to build trust is
people don't care how much youknow until they know how much
you care.
I mean it's cheesy, but it'strue 100% Right.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But Dean was like what was it Care before you
share, or something like that.
I think he used to say the sameidea.
I mean, that was one of thethings that he said a long time
ago.
And then you know, like themost underrated thing is just
asking how people feel.
Right and overrated issometimes all this technology
that we have and you forget that, hey, this is human and they're
(27:53):
not a math equation, and allthe things.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So that's, that's how you do it in person.
Would you say that you dosomething similar with your
remote based amateur athletes?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean I, it depends onthe communication style.
It seems like, especially afterCOVID, texts have become cause,
everyone's working at home,right, and so they're
multitasking and they're intheir jammies texting me under
the table while they're on boardmeeting or whatever.
But I mean most of myinteraction is usually starting
with hey, how did that feelright?
Or hey, how's this week looking, yeah, right, or or whatever
(28:28):
it's.
I mean yeah, there might be ascreenshot of the thing, but
it's usually starting that wayand then we progress into the
okay, this is what I saw, orthis is that.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
And I think for myself I don't.
I mean I'm a bit of a 14 yearold like on text message because
I'm trying to get thatinformation quick, like in the
mornings and whatnot, and Iwould say I'm doing that
especially when athletes I knoware in a heavy training phase,
coming up to a raise or kind of,when it matters most If we're
(28:59):
just building base, like in thebase, and build kind of time
period, I'm not as hot and heavyon the communication.
But then as the intensity kicksup and travels kicking up and
things are more volatile, that'susually when the communication
scattergun starts going Right,that's usually when the
communication scattergun startsgoing yeah.
Right, and so in that way Ithink this is important too from
somebody who wonders whatcoaching is like.
(29:21):
And I try to tell this to myathletes coming in is like all
right, first month or two we'reprobably going to over
communicate because I'm tryingto learn who you are, how you
are, how you react to training,and I want and I'm going to
teach you some of the principlesand the things that I, how I
coach.
Right After that it's more likea steady state for a while.
Then, if it's a race, if you'reinto races and events and stuff
(29:44):
, then it's probably going totick up and then I'm going to be
like in your face.
But then transition phase andbase phase I'm going to be like
stepping back a bit and thatdoesn't mean that I care less,
but it does mean that thatprocess and kind of that
oscillation of communication andaccountability and stuff, it
does ebb and flow or theconversations are different.
(30:04):
The conversations are done, yeahwe talk more about tech stuff.
Like you heard me talking allabout grips and tire width,
entire pressure, and you're likeman, oh my god right, yeah, he
likes to nerd out, and so do I.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I like getting the week yeah, I, yeah, yeah, I I do
as much as the next person, butI had to give you a little
ration of crap about that.
But but yeah, that's the thing,right.
And then certain people like totalk about some things more
than others and that's that'sokay, although, like I, I'm
completely up front with peoplethat you know, fridays I
generally will reserve fortalking about critical weekend
(30:38):
stuff like racing or this orthat, and that's not the day to
like catch me about what filetooth pattern is the best this
week.
Do that on Tuesday, unlessyou're racing and you need to.
We may need to make a decisionabout which file tooth pattern
is pertinent to the weekend'srace, but hopefully we have it
dialed long before Friday,before the event.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Last question for you , Colin, then we'll wrap this up
.
If somebody has a coach, dothey need a coach forever?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's a good question, um, in some regards, I
think that I've done the bestjob when I coach myself out of a
job.
As far as the intervals go,right, um, I I've got some
people coming up on 20 years inthe same breath and our
relationship has changed Right,and you know, they know about
(31:30):
what they need to do, right, um,and we sort of joke a couple of
them like we'll be doing sometesting, whatever ftp testing or
something like that.
Okay, we know it's going to bewithin five watts and nine times
out of ten we get right becausewe've just reached that point.
But in the same breath one ofthe things that was fun this
year with with one fellow Ithink next season's our 20th um
(31:55):
he's completely changed hisgoals, what he wants to do with
racing, and so that's refreshedsome of the interval workouts
and things like that.
But it was really good in thesense that we had some excellent
conversations about like, okay,well, this is where you're at
as an athlete, this is whereyou're at with your family.
What can we do differently?
What excites you?
(32:15):
Right, and, and so in that case, I think it's a great.
Yeah, I mean not maybe forever,but very long-term, yeah, as
long as you're getting on withthe person and it's a fruitful
relationship.
Sure, you know, if you feelgood after X amount of years
that your coach has educated youon the four by twelves or
whatever, and you don't feel youneed the relationship as much,
(32:38):
then yeah, maybe it's.
Or maybe it's just time forchange, right, like a different
perspective.
And that's normal too, right?
I mean, we've both been doingthis long enough that both sides
might say like, hey, look, thishas been awesome.
However, I think you needsomething else, something
different and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, I'm glad you said what you said about kind of
like coaching yourself out of ajob.
I was.
Those were like when we wereriding today, I was thinking
about what we're going to talkabout and and, and I remember
thinking to myself, I'm likewhen I'm doing a good job, I'm
essentially working.
If I, if I do a good job, I'mworking myself out of that,
(33:13):
because I'm teaching you as wellas coaching you, and in that
way, it's a bit of a gamble,right, because to do coaching
well, that is exactly what youhave to do.
And I even tell my athletes nowI never well, I don't think I
was smart enough back then but Itell them now.
I say the reason I'm tellingyou this and telling you this
again is because if I'm dead andgone, right, I want you to be
(33:36):
able to handle this for a while.
Or, more importantly, when I gooff on vacation for a week, I
want you to not freak out whensomething happens, because I'm
still human too.
I still am not as accessible atcertain points throughout the
year, and I need you to learn inthis process too, because
you're going to be a way betterathlete if so yeah, and even if
(34:00):
they keep coaching with you forhowever long, if they understand
the why, then they're going todo it better, or they can
understand how to communicate toyou like I need to do, 60
minutes broken up on trailversus 4x15, or whatever, right,
yeah, and so in that way, whenyou're teaching them, you're
also like instilling confidencein them too, because there's
(34:20):
just there's some stuff too, andthis is the other thing about a
remote-based coach versus, uh,in, like in person, where some
of your downhillers wanted youto come more in person to over
in France, over in um weirdplace of the world Right, but
you just couldn't, based on whatyou're doing, remote-based
athlete won't have the coachholding their hand the whole
(34:42):
time, and so you have to be ableto make some decisions on the
fly, and I think that is veryunderstandable.
And I've even had some athleteslike call or text me when
they're at the race and it'slike high stakes, high pressure,
what do I do?
And I try to make myselfavailable when I know it's like
I already said, like when I knowit's going to be like I'm here,
but I'm not always going to bethere.
(35:03):
So I think too, from a remotebased setting, you also have to
have some understanding of whatthat looks like, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
And what are they going to doin the middle of the race when
they can't text you?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, that's it.
And I think, to wrap this thingup, I mean, coaching is a
process to help you betteryourself and there's a lot of
different hats that the coach isgoing to wear along in that
process, but the biggest thingis developing the relationship
and if you have time,willingness and eagerness to
(35:38):
build another relationship inyour life, you're a good
candidate for a coach.
To get a coach, would you agree?
Yeah, 100%, absolutely.
But in that way, coaches aren'tperfect.
They're going to miss thingshere and there because we are
human.
You know, coaches aren't perfect.
They're going to miss thingshere and there, um, cause we are
human.
And but I think, with thetechnology that's moving along
(35:59):
the way, it's going to help usto bridge that gap a little bit
on both sides, to both get goodinformation quickly digested and
analyze it quickly.
So I'm I'm excited to see wherethe AI and kind of tech
revolution goes with it, but I,I, you know, I I don't think
that the coach is going to beedged out entirely person.
Uh, but all that being said,colin, thank you for taking time
(36:20):
out of the busy day of eatingpastries and riding mountain
bikes that you've had it's.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
It's been wildly busy here in your living room.
Yes, Jump on the pocket.
I know I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Um, I really appreciate picking your brain
and and just uh, just haveanother coach in the house.
It's pretty fun.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It's fun, yeah, yeah, fun, to trade ideas.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well to all of our listeners.
I hope this helped to, like Isaid, pull back the veils a
little bit on what coaching is,who coaches are some kind of
off-the-cuff banter that we'vehad today, which was a very
different sort of podcast formatthan I usually do.
Uh, so if this spurred anyquestions on or curiosities, uh,
(37:00):
head over to train rightcombackslash podcast and ask
whatever question you want to me, colin or any of our coaches.
Okay, uh, you can write that inand if it's specific to Colin,
I'll get that over to him andI'll get them back on the show.
But in that way, if thistriggers a little bit more and
you want a consultation or youwant to work with a coach, this
is great.
But this is not the point ofthis podcast.
(37:22):
It wasn't that.
It's simply to communicate andhelp you understand what we do a
little bit more.
And if that, you know, pushesyou over the edge a little bit
to better yourself in the, inthe endurance coaching or in the
endurance training space, allthe better.
So, colin, any last words?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Just to echo what you said if, hopefully, this arms
people with enough informationthat they can, they can decide
if it's right for them and theycan make a choice and they can
go talk to someone and findsomebody and be better, right,
so that that, at the end of theday, is the goal for us and all
have people do things better andhave fun doing it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Thanks for joining us on the time crunch cyclist
podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even moreactionable training advice, head
over to train rightcombackslash newsletter and
subscribe to our free weeklypublication.
Each week you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
(38:22):
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
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