April 9, 2025 • 41 mins
OVERVIEW
Stephanie Howe, PhD is our go-to source for no-nonsense, evidence-based nutrition guidance. She doesn't abide fads or pseudoscience and has no allegiances to sports nutrition or supplement companies. An elite ultramarathon runner who won Western States, CTS Coach, and the provider for CTS Nutrition Coaching services, Stephanie works with cyclists, runners, triathletes, and more. In Episode 243 of "The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast", Stephanie and Coach Adam Pulford discuss the fundamentals of sports nutrition for training, misconceptions about eating sugar, how the recent "max carbohydrate" trends apply to Time-Crunched Athletes, and more.
TOPICS COVERED
- Why athletes shouldn't be afraid of consuming sugar during exercise
- Ingredients to look for in sports nutrition products
- Adjusting calorie/carbohydrate intake by exercise intensity
- Nutrition for endurance days vs. interval/competition days
- Gut training: what it is, why it's good, how to do it
- What to eat in the 24 hours before important training/competition
- Hydration recommendations for training/competition
- Why you should carry both water and sport drink
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LINKS/RESOURCES
HOST
Adam Pulford has been a CTS Coach for nearly two decades and holds a B.S. in Exercise Physiology. He's participated in and coached hundreds of athletes for endurance events all around the world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance, even
if you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches whomake up the team at CTS.
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
Now onto our show.
Fueling your body is essentialfor high performance and going
(00:52):
the distance.
Happily, I don't think anyonewould contend that these days,
now that we've moved away fromtraining tactics and other silly
things of the past.
But there's still a ton ofconfusion in endurance sport
when it comes to nutrition andhydration.
How high should you carb?
Is all the sugar that we'repumping into your body a bad
(01:14):
thing?
And how do you actually figureout what's going to work for you
on race day?
All this and more is what we'regoing to talk on today's
podcast.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and here to help me
answer these questions, and moreis what we're going to talk on
today's podcast.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and here to help me
answer these questions and moreis professional ultra runner,
(01:37):
winner of Western States 100,bandero 100K, lake Sonoma 50,
and Chianti 120K.
Phd in both nutrition andexercise physiology, and mother
to her son, julian, cts ProCoach Stephanie Howe.
Stephanie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Hey, thanks, adam, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, that is quite the introduction.
By the way, there's a lot goingon there of which people will
learn more about here, butyou've got some street cred and
I just really want to say thanksfor taking time on your busy
schedule to talk to us today.
Yeah, happy to yeah.
(02:18):
So I'm guessing the cyclingside of our audience may not
know you from the running world,but clearly you're a thing
there.
Could you please tell us a bitmore about yourself, some of the
highlights and maybe whereyou're potting from today?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I've been in the endurance space for the last 15
years and I've been a runnermyself, just trail runner.
I've been sponsored by theNorth Face for the last decade
and also have a PhD in nutritionand exercise science, so really
have a blend of the two.
So the book by the book, inacademia and then also in
(02:48):
application, because I'm anathlete myself and I've bounced
around a bit in where I've lived.
I was in Bend, oregon, forabout a decade, and now I'm
coming to you today fromChamonix, france, which is right
in the middle of the FrenchAlps.
It's a fantastic place to be atrail runner and I'm really
happy to call this place home.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It sure is a very beautiful place and very, very
low, but bend is nothing toshake a stick at either.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It wasn't so bad either.
It was like I traded a good forbetter.
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, cool.
Well, thanks again for takingtime in for for everyone
listening, you're in for a realtreat, not only because
Stephanie is a superstar, butbecause this is a.
This is part one in a two partseries where we'll discuss
everything that you need to knowto create a solid fueling plan
for race day.
But to get there, we need to doit in training first.
(03:41):
So in part one, which is today,we'll focus on the training and
lifestyle side of things, whichwill cue us up for part two,
where we focus on the race plan.
So one thing I respect aboutStephanie and her approach is
how she always encourages uscoaches, as well as her athletes
, to remember the basics.
So let's start there.
(04:01):
When it comes to fueling,stephanie, could you remind our
audience of the threemacronutrients and how our body
uses them and when it uses them?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, that's a great place to start.
So there are threemacronutrients carbohydrate, fat
and protein and they're allequally important for our body
in different ways.
When we're training or racing,we primarily use carbohydrate
and fat, and we'll probably gointo how we use each one, but it
kind of depends on the durationand the intensity.
(04:34):
And then protein isn'tnecessarily used as a source of
fuel, but it's used a lot forthe rebuilding after a training
session.
It's also used in the body aslike a signaling mechanism and
for a lot of other physiologicalreasons in the body.
And when we think about eating,we want to eat all three
(04:56):
macronutrients, and so dietsthat cut out one or really limit
one aren't necessarilysustainable or healthy for the
long term.
And so when we think about likeeating as an endurance athlete,
we also want to go back to likewhat does our body need for
like optimal health as well, andit does include all three
macronutrients.
(05:16):
So we start there.
And then when we talk aboutfueling during a training or
during a race, we look at againthe type of activity, so cycling
versus running a little bitdifferent.
We look at the duration and welook at the intensity.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And I think it's.
It's so important to startthere in, really, because
there's there's a lot of scienceas well as art that goes into
fueling plans and for for all ofour listeners, cause
everybody's getting the highcarb message now, right, yeah,
which is awesome, but it's superimportant to know that all of
the time you are using all ofthe macronutrients, and that
(05:54):
goes from like sleeping totraining, and it just you think
about dials right.
As you dial up intensity,you're dialing up carbohydrate
need or burn rate right, and asyou go a little bit longer, you
dial down the intensity.
As we're exercising, you need alittle bit more, or you're
burning more fat, and then, atrest and in repair, that's where
(06:14):
the protein comes in, but wealways need all of the things.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
So, yeah, that being said, a really good way to think
of it is not like a lightswitch, like an on off, but
actually like dials, like youjust said, because even when
you're maximally using fat, forexample, you're still using some
carbohydrate.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Exactly, exactly.
So I think the main messagethere is uh don't restrict any
of them, because once you do,you'll start to uh create some
problems.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, so let's talk about how food works.
In one of our recent continuingeducations from CTS, you talked
about the need of, like, fastfuel and then the need of slow
fuel.
So, fast fuel during training,slow fuel a little bit more like
during life, right, yeah?
So let's talk, like just ingeneral, when we turn up the
(07:07):
dial of intensity and we needfast fuel.
What is that fast fuel?
Probably carbohydrates, right,but like, what does that look
like?
Just in general terms, and thenwe'll talk about how to dial it
in for training sessions.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, this is a really um big point of confusion
right now, because I think in alot of athletes' minds they're
blurring the two.
They're blurring when they sitdown to eat a meal versus when
they're fueling on the bike oron a run, and when you can think
of those as like two separateoccasions.
Like one is actually, they'redifferent metabolically how they
work.
So one you actually wantsomething that takes a long time
(07:43):
to break down and get into thebody and is full of, like
micronutrients and fiber and allthat kind of stuff.
The other, when you're trainingor racing, you want something
to be really quick.
The whole reason that you fuelin the first place is to get
energy to your muscles so thatyou can keep doing what you want
to do.
And you don't want somethingthat's going to sit in your
stomach and take a long time tobreak down.
(08:04):
So that's going to sit in yourstomach and take a long time to
break down.
So that's where the simplesugars come in, and we don't
need to be afraid of thosesimple sugars because we're not
eating them for like a meal.
Like if you came over to myhouse and I served you a gel for
dinner, that would be.
Really that's not what we wantto do.
We want to have like a mixedmeal, but when you're on the
bike you actually want thatquick sugar because you want it
to get into your body quickly sothat you can use it.
(08:26):
So those are two verydistinctly different eating
occasions or fueling occasions.
No-transcript to some of that.
(08:52):
Like there is a, there is a usecase for real food, but for the
most part you actually wantthat simple carbohydrate because
you're going to use it.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Completely agree.
But one quick thing is how longare some of your ultra run
races?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Anywhere between like five hours to 30 hours ish, and
some of them are like up to 60.
So you can be out there for acouple of days.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's a long time.
I, I, I really don't want to doanything for 30 hours in my
whole life.
So for a lot of people, for alot of people listening, you
know they they are doing eventswhere you know it's five, six,
12 hours, that kind of stuff,and we're and if we're throwing
in a gel or two every hour,that's a lot of sugar.
A lot of people they're gettingthe message on Instagram and
(09:42):
influencers and Tik TOK and allthis crap about how bad sugar is
.
Do we need to worry about thatsugar?
I mean two gels an hour, allthe sugar pumping in when we're
actually exercising.
Is that something to be scaredof?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's a great question.
So if you back it up, zoom outand look at the amount of time
you're spending during thoseactivities versus how much time
you're actually eating real foodthroughout the year, it's a
very small percentage for mostpeople, right?
Even if you're including itevery week in your training
rides, it's still a very smallpercentage.
(10:16):
So when you can kind of likesee that, it's like oh yeah,
that's not the majority of mydiet, right?
And then the other thing is,when we take in a gel, it's not
going to our entire body andbeing digested and absorbed.
It's going right to the workingmuscles.
And the reason we know that isthat for carbohydrate glucose to
(10:37):
be absorbed or to be taken upby the cells, there has to be,
like, either an insulin responseto cause the receptors to go on
the surface of the cell or amuscle contraction.
So we know when you're ridingyour bike that glucose is going
to your working muscles to beused as a fuel, not to your
entire body, and metabolize andstore it and that sort of thing.
(10:59):
The other thing to consider isthe end fate of a tablespoon of
sugar or a gel or somethingsimple like that, versus like a
piece of kale or a banana or asweet potato is the exact same
thing.
It's glucose, and so we're justkind of like taking that
digestion piece out of it sothat our bodies can use it
(11:22):
quicker.
So we don't need to be worriedabout sugar, we don't.
We can just kind of like put onum earmuffs when we're when
those uh things come through onsocial media, because it's not
the same.
And, like I said, if we werehaving gels for dinner, that's
kind of a problem, but that'snot what we're talking about
here.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, exactly, and I always like to say like, so long
as you're moving, so long asyou're exercising and a lot of
our listeners you know they'redoing races, they're high
performance oriented you need toworry about fueling your body.
The problem with sugar is whenyou just don't move.
You know, when you're sedentaryand you bathe yourself in sugar
, that begins to be a problem.
(12:02):
But that's excess of calories,that's lack of movement and
there's other things that go onbecause you're not actually
using that fuel and you create alot of metabolic issues when
you don't move.
So I think, like, simply putyou, dial up those intensities.
You keep your body moving,you're going to need to nourish
it in carbohydrates and simplesugars.
(12:23):
It's fuel, man, it's not.
It's not harmful.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yep Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, so, uh, in order to figure out what works
for you and what doesn't, um, Ialways like to say start with
science, use trial and error andfigure it out.
Is that about what you do withyour athletes, too?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, and especially with nutrition, because it is a
science but it's applied as anart and no two people are the
same even the same person overtwo different races.
Depending on, like, thetemperature or their fitness or
the time of year, it's going tovary a little bit.
So, yeah, we absolutely startwith the science.
We have this framework and thenwe fill it in with the
(13:06):
individual specifics that theperson needs.
So most of the time I will kindof do a brief like physiology
one-on-one or metabolismone-on-one, to like just teach
the athlete a little bit aboutwhy they want those simple
sugars, kind of what we justwent through.
And then when they see like aha, okay, I get it, then we start
(13:26):
with like okay, what are theproducts available that you
could try Identify like two tothree.
We don't want to identify like10, because that's overwhelming
right.
Then there's like choicefatigue, so we find a couple to
work with and have the athletetry them out in training.
And so normally, like you said,it's really popular to be high
(13:49):
carb right now, which is great.
I'd rather have that be theissue than like fasted training
or just like trying to bonk.
Like that doesn't sound fun.
But the other issue to consideris not everybody needs to be
super high carb, because one ofthe primary reasons for DNF in
ultra running is GI upset, andI'm sure it's similar in cycling
(14:11):
as well.
So we want to find that sweetspot where we're getting the
athlete enough carbohydrate butwe're not going too high,
because although Tour de Francecyclists might need 120 grams
per hour, you might not needthat, adam.
You might not need 120 grams.
That might be too much for yourstomach.
So we're going to try that outtraining to see what you
(14:32):
tolerate and what feels best.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, well, let's go there.
I mean, whether it is theframework that you use with
starting out with an athlete, ordo we just kind of like start
in on carbs per hour, like whatis Stephanie Howe's framework of
where to begin with somebody tofigure this out in training?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
in training, yeah, so the first thing is just getting
to know the athlete and theirgoals a little bit, because
that's going to depend ordetermine, like, what they need.
But for most people they'retrying to perform right.
So we're going to emphasizenutrition that's going to
support that goal.
And so I usually start with 60grams of carbohydrate per hour
because that's like that'senough to fuel the activity.
We can always go up from there.
(15:20):
I don't like my athletes to betoo much lower than that because
then that starts to limitperformance.
So usually 60 grams per hour,it's realistic, it's like two
gels per hour.
So we'll start there and then,if that works, I usually go up
in like 10 to 15 gram per hourtrials.
So 60 is good, We'll go up to 75.
(15:40):
75 is tolerated Well, we'll goup to 90.
And at that point then Iconsider the athlete because we
could try more.
But for a lot of people they'renot going to be using more than
90 grams per hour.
So it's like high risk, lowreward for elite athletes that
are really high intensity.
Perhaps we could try a hundred,maybe a little bit more, but
(16:04):
for most people somewherebetween that 60 to 90 gram is
going to be that sweet spot andit's really just trial and error
and seeing what you tolerate,um, and trying different
combinations of the form ofcarbohydrate, and then also
maybe the brand and the flavor.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, one thing I'll throw out.
There is one of the ways that Iidentify how high can we go in
that grams of carbohydrate isexactly how you laid it out
there.
I start with around 60 and thenscale up from there.
How you laid it out there, Istart with around 60 and then
scale up from there.
But in order to educate myathletes as well as identify how
(16:42):
high can we go, I basicallyhave two kind of two categories
of of our fueling, and that'saerobic riding or running, and
performance training.
And so for the intake foraerobic riding, I'll aim for 20
to 33-ish percent intake ofoutput, and that output is
(17:06):
measured in kilojoules from thepower meter.
That's how I do it, and whatthat works out to is right
around like 25 up to around 60grams of carbohydrate per hour.
For the performance riding,though, I'll start around that
33% and go up to 50% intake ofoutput.
(17:26):
So let's just use a super highnumber for a big power output a
thousand calories per hour,right, a thousand kilojoules per
hour.
You take 50% of that, that's500 calories, and divide by four
, that's just over a hundredgrams of carbohydrate per hour,
and I've used that for years inthe way of the aerobic and then
(17:48):
the performance to measure outand just confirm that I'm on
track with the intake and outputside of things and I don't know
if that makes sense to you,stephanie, but it's a
verification of everything thatyou just laid out there,
especially like on the cyclingside of things where we have
power meters.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Right, I was just going to say that's a brilliant
way to measure it and it's nice.
In cycling, you can quantify ita little bit better than you
can in running, and I thinkthat's a great way to do it and
to outline it into those twodifferent categories, because
you don't always need to fuelmaximally, right, you don't
always need to be setting yourbody up and like I I like to use
the word like baby it a littlebit, like, give it everything it
(18:28):
needs.
If it's asking for this, giveit to it.
Um, sometimes it's okay tostress it a little bit.
So that's like what you weresaying.
With, like, the aerobic ridesof like, yeah, you're not going
to fully compensate for whatyou're expending in terms of
like, how much you could take in, but that's okay.
But then you do rides where youare going to more replicate
what you would try to do raceday, because that's important
(18:49):
too.
So I think that's a great wayto think about it.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, and I think to our conversation just a few
minutes ago.
Here is like on those aerobicrides we're dialing up the fat
burning needs because we'reseeing more aerobic on the
performance rides.
We're dialing up thecarbohydrate needs, so we need
to dial up the carbohydrateintake, and that's simply put
kind of how it works.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly One thing we didn't mention is
you know how long of a ride doyou need to do before you start
fueling, and that's something tothink about too.
And I use the cut point ofusually two hours for running,
for cycling, it's probably youcould, you could probably push
that up a little bit, butsomewhere between the two ish
(19:33):
hour is when I think it'simportant to start fueling,
because we have enough storedfuel for about 90 minutes to two
hours.
Now if you're doing a reallyhard session and you want to
like maximize it, I wouldrecommend fueling.
So you're going to do like somesort of hard intervals and it's
like overall 90 minute workout,um, I would still take in some
(19:55):
sports drink or some gels duringthat session, just so you are
able to get as much out of it asyou can.
But for, like you're justendurance efforts, you can use
two hours generally as the ruleof thumb for when you need to
start fueling.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yep, completely agree with that.
And um, and in that performancetraining side of things too,
you start throwing in intervals,you start to throw in um, you
know maximum efforts.
You definitely need to startfueling there.
Um, so let's go back to kind ofuh, back to our framework a
little bit.
Do you use uh calories per houror grams per hour of
(20:31):
carbohydrate?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So I use grams per hour usually as like a minimum
and um, uh, for a few reasons.
One is the gels are so easy tolike, keep track of in sports
fuel, but for races, where it'sgoing to get like longer and
we're going to be including realfood, sometimes we talk about
overall calories per hourbecause that is going to include
(20:54):
some mixed meals and it'sreally hard to track, like the
grams of carbohydrate in yourpeanut butter and jelly sandwich
.
So in that case we start to uselike okay, so we're trying to
get around like let's say, 90grams an hour of carbohydrate,
but let's have that be somewherearound like 300 ish calories
per hour, 300 to 400 calories.
(21:16):
But I think the carbohydrate ismostly what we're interested in
.
So I tend to gravitate towardsthat as a way to count intake
for the hour.
But you can use them somewhatinterchangeably.
Knowing that it's about 200 to300 calories per hour is going
to translate into the rightamount of carbohydrate.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Exactly.
And I'd like to educate myathletes and just say look,
there's four calories per gramof carbohydrate.
So all we're going to do simplemath when we're doing our
planning right.
So 60 grams of carbohydrate 60times four, 240 calories per
hour.
Okay, and then you just go backand forth and get super good
(21:59):
with doing that.
Divide by four or multiply byfour, Just remember four.
And the general recommendationis we want to eat most of our
calories from carbohydrate.
So, just like Stephanie said,if you plow down a peanut butter
and jelly sandwich or probablylike half of it or something
like that, you don't need toworry too much about the protein
(22:21):
and fat.
Um, I think you've called itjust like extra sustenance on
those long rides.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Right, Exactly, you hit a key point there with in
your planning.
You do the math, becausesometimes we know that math goes
awry when you're racing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I have had some athletes that say they love to
do math while they're riding,racing, whatever.
When I've heard that I'm likewhat?
Because I'll be doing some hillclimb or something and I'll try
to do math in my head and itnever works well.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Never works.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
well I'm not that equipped.
Yeah, okay, well, glad wetalked about that.
Um, so we're talking aboutgrams per hour, we're talking
about calories per hour.
What's a good starting point,like how do you identify what a
good product even is to startusing?
And and as you know, stephanie,we're brand neutral here, so
(23:18):
anything goes.
How do we what is a good brandand type of gel or sport drink
Sport drink is huge and heavy incycling and how do we?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
know it's actually good.
Yeah, we've got great scienceon this.
So this is one of the thingswhere, like, we can really just
kind of apply the science.
There's not a lot of artsy roomhere and basically there are
different receptors in the gutthat process sugar, carbohydrate
, and the majority processglucose.
But then there are otherreceptors that process fructose
(23:51):
and we know from almost a decadeof science looking at this that
if we combine those two sugars,glucose and fructose, in
different ratios, it's going toget into the body, will get a
little bit more into the bodyquicker and it's not going to
cause GI upset.
So we can kind of geek out onlooking at products that one use
(24:13):
that science to formulate theirproducts.
And then two, when you read theingredients list, you want to
see either glucose ormultidextrin it's the same thing
or sucrose and then fructose asa secondary sugar, and then not
a whole lot else.
You don't want to put a lotelse in your body.
Sometimes there's other, likesmall things in sports products,
(24:36):
and generally they don't hurt,but sometimes, just because it
doesn't hurt, you don'tnecessarily want to put that in
your body.
So I look for a few ingredientsand the brands that I recommend
are purely based off of that,and there's a bunch of them out
there right now, which is reallycool because we've got choices.
(24:57):
So if you are trying to do thisyourself, just look at the
product, look at the ingredientslist and see what that first
and second sugar ingredient arein the product and if there's
something else that might makeyou want to question what that
product is trying to do.
And a lot of times we see thingsthat are trying to like market
(25:18):
to that health conscious, likeoh it's, you know it's a natural
sugar.
I'm like what the heck doesthat mean?
Like sugar sugar or you know,it's like something like there's
like superfoods or buzzwords,that's all kind of Deptogenes,
yeah, so we look for thosesimple sugars as the first
(25:38):
couple ingredients in a product.
I mean.
The brands that I really liketo recommend are Morton, never,
second, precision, scratch Labs,sis, beta Carbs Gel.
Those are kind of the heavyhitters of what's popular right
now and you can do a mix of formfactors.
(25:59):
So in running it's a little biteasier sometimes to eat like
blocks and bars or stroopwafels,Whereas in cycling I know a lot
of my cyclists rely primarilyon gels and sports drink, and
that's fine, it's just kind ofwhat's going to be the best in
terms of like, the ease of useand what you like.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, so we're starting to get that picture or
the framework of what ourtraining sessions should look
like.
I think, um, the way I do thisis I kind of follow the the
Oscar Jukin group kind of modelof sorts, where I identify hard
training days and I basicallyjust think of that as a gut
training day, um, where we putto practice uh, high carb, uh,
(26:49):
you carb, high fuelingstrategies on that training day
to train our gut as well.
Could you tell our audiencewhat a gut training day is and
why we would want to do that ona hard training day?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, so basically, your gut is like a muscle, like
it can adapt to what you stressit with, and so putting in a lot
of carbohydrate on harder orlonger sessions is a good way to
, one, train the gut so that youupregulate the receptors so
it's better able to processthose sugars when you're
training and racing.
(27:23):
And then, two, you learn a lotabout your flavor and form
factor preferences.
So sessions that are great totry this are, of course, your
long sessions, but those areeasy because you're going at a
lower intensity generally.
But I really like to recommendathletes try it on some sort of
hard intensity session Could belike tempo intervals.
(27:45):
It could be like a steady statewhere you're pushing a bit.
Be like tempo intervals.
It could be like a steady statewhere you're pushing a bit Um,
because when you, when you tryto get something in during um,
that intensity, you're going tolearn like what works pretty
quickly and it's also going toput more stress in your gut and
so that's a great time to reallydial it in and and train your
gut.
And it is, uh, generally anacute adaptation.
(28:06):
Like you, you know you can'ttrain your gut like six months
ago and then like roll into arace and be like well, in
December I was training reallywell.
It's like no.
Actually, the closer you get toyour race, the more you should
be dialing that in.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So those gut training days, Imean it's it's high kilojoule
days, it's it's high output days, um, hard hilly days, group
rides even.
And I think, on the cyclingside of things, doing this on a
group ride where there's otherpeople all around you, sometimes
bumping into you intermittenthigh intensity and trying to
(28:41):
figure out how to get the gel,how to get the drink into your
mouth, and stick to that 60 to90 grams of carbohydrate per
hour, that's the best way to doit.
For for a lot of um, like ouraudience listening, who are
doing races with start line andfinish lines and and, um, you
know, curious about how tomaximize their fueling
performance, yeah, anything youcan do to simulate a race
(29:05):
environment is going to beuseful to simulate a race
environment is going to beuseful.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So we've talked a lot aboutcarbohydrate grams per hour and
calories.
What about fluid intake, andhow do you separate your fluid
intake goals from your caloricintake goals?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
That's a good question and it's a little bit
less concrete than thecarbohydrate grams per hour
because everyone is different.
The best way to find out aboutyour hydration needs is to do a
sweat rate test, so differentthan a sweat sodium test.
A sweat rate test is reallysimple to do and the best way to
do it is to pick like a onehour endurance ride and to weigh
(29:51):
yourself pre and post, subtractany fluids that you consume and
you get your sweat rate forthat hour ride.
So your hourly rate Keeping inmind that is your sweat rate for
those conditions, right, thoseenvironmental conditions.
It will change in hot and humidconditions.
It will change actually as yourfitness changes.
(30:12):
So it's a good one to repeat onoccasion so you can get your
number kind of dialed in fordifferent temperature ranges.
In running we like to separatehydration and calories because
sometimes it's hard to matchyour caloric need to your
hydration need.
Now, that's a little bitindividual.
If you're not like a reallyheavy sweater and it's not super
(30:33):
hot, it's easy to kind ofaccommodate both.
But what I recommend is if youwant to use a sports drink with
calories in it, that you alsouse water because you want to be
able to drink when you need to.
And sometimes a sports drink istoo concentrated for the
environmental conditions.
So if it's super hot and you'resweating a lot and you're
(30:54):
trying to replace all of thathydration with a sports drink,
you can overwhelm your gut.
So it's kind of like doing alittle bit of thinking, a little
bit of preparation ahead oftime and kind of identifying if
you want to do a sports drink,making sure that's going to be
appropriate and that you're notgoing to over consume your
calories.
And that's easy to figure out,because if you know, like okay,
(31:16):
I'm losing a liter an hour,which would be kind of on the
mid to lower end of the range,then you want to make sure that
your sports drink isn't going tobe so concentrated that you're
taking in, let's say, 800calories in that hour, because
that's going to be too much foryour gut drink and a bottle of
(31:37):
water.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
in that water, not only does it help to dilute the
gut and help with hydration andkeeping it kind of like cleared
(31:59):
out, but it also like washes thesugar off your mouth, to like
it keeps your palate more happy.
Am I right in that?
Is that a thing?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, I mean sometimes you just want plain
water because you get palatefatigue from all the sweet gels
and sports products, and so I dothe exact same thing.
I do a bottle of scratch, abottle of water, and the water
can sometimes be a savior whenyou're just like I just need
something neutral to drink.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So true.
And on top of that, uh, I usedto do all these uh Leadville, uh
race day planning talks and andplanning talks and I
incorporated this message intoit and it wasn't mine, it was
actually Daniel Matheny kind ofcame up with this lingo and what
he said was the best nutritionplan won't work on a dehydrated
(32:43):
gut.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Meaning get your hydration right.
Otherwise, all the high carband everything it's going to go
sideways.
It's a your hydration right.
Otherwise, all this, like allthe high carb and everything
it's it's not, it's going to gosideways.
It's GI issue right.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Totally, you gotta.
You gotta think about thelowest hanging fruit first and
once you are, you're like takingcare of that, then you can go
to the next step.
If you're just going up to likethe carbohydrate grams per hour
and ignoring your hydrationneeds, yeah, it's not going to
work, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So my general broad recommendation is 20 to 40 fluid
ounces per hour should covermost people, most often without
doing a sweat test or a sweatrate test.
Would you agree with that anddoes everybody listening?
Would you recommend that atsome point they do a sweat rate
test?
Yeah, I agree with that anddoes everybody listening?
(33:29):
Would you recommend that atsome point they do a sweat rate
test?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, I agree with that and I think that's a good
general range.
You can also like to someextent, use thirst as your guide
.
That's not the best way tostart a plan, but within that
framework, if you have somenumbers that you're working
within, yeah, you can like, ifyou're thirsty, drink.
If you're not thirsty, you know, just make sure you're you're
getting the baseline.
I don't think it's necessary toalways do a sweat rate test,
(33:55):
because most people have an ideaif they're heavy sweater or if
they're, if they're not, and ifyou, if you are a heavy sweater,
you generally know that and youprobably want to be at the
higher end of the range and kindof a crude way you can.
You can determine that isactually by the color of your
urine, which again isn't themost scientific and shouldn't be
where you start, but it's likeit can confirm that you're
(34:17):
within the range.
So I do think that's a goodstarting point and then, within
that range, just dial it intoyour specific individual needs.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah.
And lastly, you know, don'toverthink it too.
On hotter days you're going tosweat more, so drink more fluid.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Exactly, I'm a big fan of not overcomplicating it
too much.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It's just like yeah.
And if you're feeling thirstyand you think, and you think oh,
I didn't do my sweat rate testfor 92 degrees in humidity, what
should I do?
Just drink more?
You don't need to.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, just drink some water, eat some things, drink
some water, ride your bike.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yes, but Stephanie and I are stressing out and
nerding out about this frameworkto help everyone have a good
starting point and then notsweat the details, the small
details, to make it punny abouthow to adjust on the fly.
So hopefully this is startingto shape that up and before we
close out this podcast, I dowant to ask about pre
pre-training fueling.
(35:27):
So I'm going to talk about like24, 36 hour pre-fueling in one
to two hour pre-fueling,primarily because our bodies are
storage tanks for glycogen,right, and it's also storage
tanks for liquid plasma thathelps us to sweat and cool us.
So, stephanie, how important isthat 24 to 36 hour window?
(35:51):
Uh, pre race or pre workout, ifyou've got a big thing coming
the next day, and what do youtell your athletes to do in that
24 to 36 hours to prepare forthe big thing?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, Um, that that is a really important thing to
try out before you get to thatbig event, because it can make a
difference.
We obviously want to have ourglycogen supplies topped off,
and you know, so we're startingour event with a full tank, if
you will.
And when we think about how todo that, when I'm working with
(36:24):
an athlete, generally I try tohave them eating well, like well
.
It would be nice months leadingin, but at least the week
leading in, so that they don'tput pressure on the day before
to carbo load.
Generally nobody feels goodwhen you carbo load, and so we
want to make sure we have enoughcarbohydrate but you can't
super compensate.
(36:45):
So what that looks like isgoing back to all three
macronutrients, right,Carbohydrate, fat and protein.
But I do think it's importantto think about the type in the
24 to 30 hours before andgenerally lower fiber.
So not as many, like you know,colorful leafy greens and
vegetables and that sort ofthing Save that for like after
(37:07):
the race or, you know, likeearlier in the week.
So sometimes I don't eat anyvegetables the day before race,
just depending on the duration,because I want to wake up and
not have my stomach just be likesloshing and gurgling and have
to go to the bathroom a milliontimes.
So keep it simple, eat enough.
I think a good way again wedon't want to overthink it of
like trying to do math and likecalculate out our needs.
(37:29):
Just don't let yourself gethungry, Like you don't have to
overstuff yourself, but the daybefore, like eat three meals and
if you're still feeling alittle bit hungry, have a snack.
And, generally speaking, thatshould be like a simpler
carbohydrate.
So rice, potatoes, corntortillas, pasta depending on
(37:51):
how polarizing that is rice Idon't know if I already said
that those are good, easy todigest carbohydrates.
Pair them with a high qualityprotein.
So eggs, chicken, fish, beans,lentils and then some fat like
avocado or olive oil.
That's a really greatcombination of foods that'll sit
(38:11):
well and then not be a problemin the morning.
And then, if we think about themorning of, this is when you
really want to dial in duringtraining so that when you go to
the event it's like you've doneit a million times.
You're super comfortable.
I eat my oatmeal with my peanutbutter and then I go ride my
bike.
So, again, it doesn't have tobe a large meal.
(38:33):
We don't need to overstuffourselves, but somewhere between
usually like 200 to 500calories, depending on the
duration and the individual, ofmostly simple carbohydrates.
So, again, oatmeal, toast,yogurt and then a little bit of
fat and protein.
That's going to help keep youfull.
(38:55):
So nut butter is a great onehere.
An egg or two avocado, somethinglike that generally sits pretty
well and is going to give youthe carbohydrate you need.
Because, again, we're toppingoff glycogen stores, because
when you go to bed at night,your body doesn't just turn off,
it's still using glycogenduring the night.
So we top it off and then youdon't want to have to digest a
(39:20):
lot of food, you don't want itto sit in your stomach.
So, keeping it on the lighterside and on the lower fiber and
lower overall fat and proteinside.
So that's something that issomewhat individual.
So try it out in training andalso think about where you're
going to be during an event.
So, if you're travelingsomewhere, what's an
(39:40):
easy-to-replicate breakfast?
Because if you're reallyspecific about making this
smoothie with 10 differentthings in it, that may not be
something you can do like on theroad.
So that's an importantconsideration as well.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, why is that smoothie with a million
ingredients so popular right now?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Um, but uh, all all jesting aside, how to do this is
, for most of us listening here,saturdays is our long ride.
You know, sundays may be thelong ride, whatever.
When you, when you'repracticing this and you're
leading up to say, the unboundor the Treco or Leadville or
your long, you know raceplanning sort of thing, but
(40:22):
you're doing it in trainingright now and you got the five
hour ride on Saturday.
Start to eat really well, highcarbohydrate, and don't let
yourself get hungry Thursdaynight going through Friday and
then you lead into that race.
Have a normal breakfast away,you go.
That's a very good pre-trainingfueling habit to get into.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, you'll get more of those sessions as well.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
For sure, for sure.
So we'll leave it there for now, because all this is going to
lead into how to put thistogether for race day planning.
Okay, but that's our nextpodcast, so, uh, we'll leave it
there for today.
Be sure to come back next weekto hear more from Stephanie
about how to put this alltogether for race day planning.
(41:06):
Stephanie, thank you again forjoining us here on the Time
Crunch Cyclist Podcast.
Thanks for joining us on theTime Crunch Cyclist Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even moreactionable training advice, head
over to trainrightcom backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
(41:26):
Each week, you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
From the team at CTS.
This is the Time Crunch Cyclistpodcast, our show dedicated to
answering your trainingquestions and providing
actionable advice to help youimprove your performance, even
if you're strapped for time.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and I'm one of the over
50 professional coaches whomake up the team at CTS.
In each episode, I draw on ourteam's collective knowledge,
(00:30):
other coaches and experts in thefield to provide you with the
practical ways to get the mostout of your training and
ultimately become the bestcyclist that you can be.
Now on to our show.
Now onto our show.
Fueling your body is essentialfor high performance and going
(00:52):
the distance.
Happily, I don't think anyonewould contend that these days,
now that we've moved away fromtraining tactics and other silly
things of the past.
But there's still a ton ofconfusion in endurance sport
when it comes to nutrition andhydration.
How high should you carb?
Is all the sugar that we'repumping into your body a bad
(01:14):
thing?
And how do you actually figureout what's going to work for you
on race day?
All this and more is what we'regoing to talk on today's
podcast.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and here to help me
answer these questions, and moreis what we're going to talk on
today's podcast.
I'm your host, coach AdamPulford, and here to help me
answer these questions and moreis professional ultra runner,
(01:37):
winner of Western States 100,bandero 100K, lake Sonoma 50,
and Chianti 120K.
Phd in both nutrition andexercise physiology, and mother
to her son, julian, cts ProCoach Stephanie Howe.
Stephanie, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Hey, thanks, adam, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, that is quite the introduction.
By the way, there's a lot goingon there of which people will
learn more about here, butyou've got some street cred and
I just really want to say thanksfor taking time on your busy
schedule to talk to us today.
Yeah, happy to yeah.
(02:18):
So I'm guessing the cyclingside of our audience may not
know you from the running world,but clearly you're a thing
there.
Could you please tell us a bitmore about yourself, some of the
highlights and maybe whereyou're potting from today?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I've been in the endurance space for the last 15
years and I've been a runnermyself, just trail runner.
I've been sponsored by theNorth Face for the last decade
and also have a PhD in nutritionand exercise science, so really
have a blend of the two.
So the book by the book, inacademia and then also in
(02:48):
application, because I'm anathlete myself and I've bounced
around a bit in where I've lived.
I was in Bend, oregon, forabout a decade, and now I'm
coming to you today fromChamonix, france, which is right
in the middle of the FrenchAlps.
It's a fantastic place to be atrail runner and I'm really
happy to call this place home.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It sure is a very beautiful place and very, very
low, but bend is nothing toshake a stick at either.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It wasn't so bad either.
It was like I traded a good forbetter.
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, cool.
Well, thanks again for takingtime in for for everyone
listening, you're in for a realtreat, not only because
Stephanie is a superstar, butbecause this is a.
This is part one in a two partseries where we'll discuss
everything that you need to knowto create a solid fueling plan
for race day.
But to get there, we need to doit in training first.
(03:41):
So in part one, which is today,we'll focus on the training and
lifestyle side of things, whichwill cue us up for part two,
where we focus on the race plan.
So one thing I respect aboutStephanie and her approach is
how she always encourages uscoaches, as well as her athletes
, to remember the basics.
So let's start there.
(04:01):
When it comes to fueling,stephanie, could you remind our
audience of the threemacronutrients and how our body
uses them and when it uses them?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, that's a great place to start.
So there are threemacronutrients carbohydrate, fat
and protein and they're allequally important for our body
in different ways.
When we're training or racing,we primarily use carbohydrate
and fat, and we'll probably gointo how we use each one, but it
kind of depends on the durationand the intensity.
(04:34):
And then protein isn'tnecessarily used as a source of
fuel, but it's used a lot forthe rebuilding after a training
session.
It's also used in the body aslike a signaling mechanism and
for a lot of other physiologicalreasons in the body.
And when we think about eating,we want to eat all three
(04:56):
macronutrients, and so dietsthat cut out one or really limit
one aren't necessarilysustainable or healthy for the
long term.
And so when we think about likeeating as an endurance athlete,
we also want to go back to likewhat does our body need for
like optimal health as well, andit does include all three
macronutrients.
(05:16):
So we start there.
And then when we talk aboutfueling during a training or
during a race, we look at againthe type of activity, so cycling
versus running a little bitdifferent.
We look at the duration and welook at the intensity.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And I think it's.
It's so important to startthere in, really, because
there's there's a lot of scienceas well as art that goes into
fueling plans and for for all ofour listeners, cause
everybody's getting the highcarb message now, right, yeah,
which is awesome, but it's superimportant to know that all of
the time you are using all ofthe macronutrients, and that
(05:54):
goes from like sleeping totraining, and it just you think
about dials right.
As you dial up intensity,you're dialing up carbohydrate
need or burn rate right, and asyou go a little bit longer, you
dial down the intensity.
As we're exercising, you need alittle bit more, or you're
burning more fat, and then, atrest and in repair, that's where
(06:14):
the protein comes in, but wealways need all of the things.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
So, yeah, that being said, a really good way to think
of it is not like a lightswitch, like an on off, but
actually like dials, like youjust said, because even when
you're maximally using fat, forexample, you're still using some
carbohydrate.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Exactly, exactly.
So I think the main messagethere is uh don't restrict any
of them, because once you do,you'll start to uh create some
problems.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, so let's talk about how food works.
In one of our recent continuingeducations from CTS, you talked
about the need of, like, fastfuel and then the need of slow
fuel.
So, fast fuel during training,slow fuel a little bit more like
during life, right, yeah?
So let's talk, like just ingeneral, when we turn up the
(07:07):
dial of intensity and we needfast fuel.
What is that fast fuel?
Probably carbohydrates, right,but like, what does that look
like?
Just in general terms, and thenwe'll talk about how to dial it
in for training sessions.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, this is a really um big point of confusion
right now, because I think in alot of athletes' minds they're
blurring the two.
They're blurring when they sitdown to eat a meal versus when
they're fueling on the bike oron a run, and when you can think
of those as like two separateoccasions.
Like one is actually, they'redifferent metabolically how they
work.
So one you actually wantsomething that takes a long time
(07:43):
to break down and get into thebody and is full of, like
micronutrients and fiber and allthat kind of stuff.
The other, when you're trainingor racing, you want something
to be really quick.
The whole reason that you fuelin the first place is to get
energy to your muscles so thatyou can keep doing what you want
to do.
And you don't want somethingthat's going to sit in your
stomach and take a long time tobreak down.
(08:04):
So that's going to sit in yourstomach and take a long time to
break down.
So that's where the simplesugars come in, and we don't
need to be afraid of thosesimple sugars because we're not
eating them for like a meal.
Like if you came over to myhouse and I served you a gel for
dinner, that would be.
Really that's not what we wantto do.
We want to have like a mixedmeal, but when you're on the
bike you actually want thatquick sugar because you want it
to get into your body quickly sothat you can use it.
(08:26):
So those are two verydistinctly different eating
occasions or fueling occasions.
No-transcript to some of that.
(08:52):
Like there is a, there is a usecase for real food, but for the
most part you actually wantthat simple carbohydrate because
you're going to use it.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Completely agree.
But one quick thing is how longare some of your ultra run
races?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Anywhere between like five hours to 30 hours ish, and
some of them are like up to 60.
So you can be out there for acouple of days.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's a long time.
I, I, I really don't want to doanything for 30 hours in my
whole life.
So for a lot of people, for alot of people listening, you
know they they are doing eventswhere you know it's five, six,
12 hours, that kind of stuff,and we're and if we're throwing
in a gel or two every hour,that's a lot of sugar.
A lot of people they're gettingthe message on Instagram and
(09:42):
influencers and Tik TOK and allthis crap about how bad sugar is
.
Do we need to worry about thatsugar?
I mean two gels an hour, allthe sugar pumping in when we're
actually exercising.
Is that something to be scaredof?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's a great question.
So if you back it up, zoom outand look at the amount of time
you're spending during thoseactivities versus how much time
you're actually eating real foodthroughout the year, it's a
very small percentage for mostpeople, right?
Even if you're including itevery week in your training
rides, it's still a very smallpercentage.
(10:16):
So when you can kind of likesee that, it's like oh yeah,
that's not the majority of mydiet, right?
And then the other thing is,when we take in a gel, it's not
going to our entire body andbeing digested and absorbed.
It's going right to the workingmuscles.
And the reason we know that isthat for carbohydrate glucose to
(10:37):
be absorbed or to be taken upby the cells, there has to be,
like, either an insulin responseto cause the receptors to go on
the surface of the cell or amuscle contraction.
So we know when you're ridingyour bike that glucose is going
to your working muscles to beused as a fuel, not to your
entire body, and metabolize andstore it and that sort of thing.
(10:59):
The other thing to consider isthe end fate of a tablespoon of
sugar or a gel or somethingsimple like that, versus like a
piece of kale or a banana or asweet potato is the exact same
thing.
It's glucose, and so we're justkind of like taking that
digestion piece out of it sothat our bodies can use it
(11:22):
quicker.
So we don't need to be worriedabout sugar, we don't.
We can just kind of like put onum earmuffs when we're when
those uh things come through onsocial media, because it's not
the same.
And, like I said, if we werehaving gels for dinner, that's
kind of a problem, but that'snot what we're talking about
here.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, exactly, and I always like to say like, so long
as you're moving, so long asyou're exercising and a lot of
our listeners you know they'redoing races, they're high
performance oriented you need toworry about fueling your body.
The problem with sugar is whenyou just don't move.
You know, when you're sedentaryand you bathe yourself in sugar
, that begins to be a problem.
(12:02):
But that's excess of calories,that's lack of movement and
there's other things that go onbecause you're not actually
using that fuel and you create alot of metabolic issues when
you don't move.
So I think, like, simply putyou, dial up those intensities.
You keep your body moving,you're going to need to nourish
it in carbohydrates and simplesugars.
(12:23):
It's fuel, man, it's not.
It's not harmful.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yep Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, so, uh, in order to figure out what works
for you and what doesn't, um, Ialways like to say start with
science, use trial and error andfigure it out.
Is that about what you do withyour athletes, too?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, and especially with nutrition, because it is a
science but it's applied as anart and no two people are the
same even the same person overtwo different races.
Depending on, like, thetemperature or their fitness or
the time of year, it's going tovary a little bit.
So, yeah, we absolutely startwith the science.
We have this framework and thenwe fill it in with the
(13:06):
individual specifics that theperson needs.
So most of the time I will kindof do a brief like physiology
one-on-one or metabolismone-on-one, to like just teach
the athlete a little bit aboutwhy they want those simple
sugars, kind of what we justwent through.
And then when they see like aha, okay, I get it, then we start
(13:26):
with like okay, what are theproducts available that you
could try Identify like two tothree.
We don't want to identify like10, because that's overwhelming
right.
Then there's like choicefatigue, so we find a couple to
work with and have the athletetry them out in training.
And so normally, like you said,it's really popular to be high
(13:49):
carb right now, which is great.
I'd rather have that be theissue than like fasted training
or just like trying to bonk.
Like that doesn't sound fun.
But the other issue to consideris not everybody needs to be
super high carb, because one ofthe primary reasons for DNF in
ultra running is GI upset, andI'm sure it's similar in cycling
(14:11):
as well.
So we want to find that sweetspot where we're getting the
athlete enough carbohydrate butwe're not going too high,
because although Tour de Francecyclists might need 120 grams
per hour, you might not needthat, adam.
You might not need 120 grams.
That might be too much for yourstomach.
So we're going to try that outtraining to see what you
(14:32):
tolerate and what feels best.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, well, let's go there.
I mean, whether it is theframework that you use with
starting out with an athlete, ordo we just kind of like start
in on carbs per hour, like whatis Stephanie Howe's framework of
where to begin with somebody tofigure this out in training?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
in training, yeah, so the first thing is just getting
to know the athlete and theirgoals a little bit, because
that's going to depend ordetermine, like, what they need.
But for most people they'retrying to perform right.
So we're going to emphasizenutrition that's going to
support that goal.
And so I usually start with 60grams of carbohydrate per hour
because that's like that'senough to fuel the activity.
We can always go up from there.
(15:20):
I don't like my athletes to betoo much lower than that because
then that starts to limitperformance.
So usually 60 grams per hour,it's realistic, it's like two
gels per hour.
So we'll start there and then,if that works, I usually go up
in like 10 to 15 gram per hourtrials.
So 60 is good, We'll go up to 75.
(15:40):
75 is tolerated Well, we'll goup to 90.
And at that point then Iconsider the athlete because we
could try more.
But for a lot of people they'renot going to be using more than
90 grams per hour.
So it's like high risk, lowreward for elite athletes that
are really high intensity.
Perhaps we could try a hundred,maybe a little bit more, but
(16:04):
for most people somewherebetween that 60 to 90 gram is
going to be that sweet spot andit's really just trial and error
and seeing what you tolerate,um, and trying different
combinations of the form ofcarbohydrate, and then also
maybe the brand and the flavor.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, one thing I'll throw out.
There is one of the ways that Iidentify how high can we go in
that grams of carbohydrate isexactly how you laid it out
there.
I start with around 60 and thenscale up from there.
How you laid it out there, Istart with around 60 and then
scale up from there.
But in order to educate myathletes as well as identify how
(16:42):
high can we go, I basicallyhave two kind of two categories
of of our fueling, and that'saerobic riding or running, and
performance training.
And so for the intake foraerobic riding, I'll aim for 20
to 33-ish percent intake ofoutput, and that output is
(17:06):
measured in kilojoules from thepower meter.
That's how I do it, and whatthat works out to is right
around like 25 up to around 60grams of carbohydrate per hour.
For the performance riding,though, I'll start around that
33% and go up to 50% intake ofoutput.
(17:26):
So let's just use a super highnumber for a big power output a
thousand calories per hour,right, a thousand kilojoules per
hour.
You take 50% of that, that's500 calories, and divide by four
, that's just over a hundredgrams of carbohydrate per hour,
and I've used that for years inthe way of the aerobic and then
(17:48):
the performance to measure outand just confirm that I'm on
track with the intake and outputside of things and I don't know
if that makes sense to you,stephanie, but it's a
verification of everything thatyou just laid out there,
especially like on the cyclingside of things where we have
power meters.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Right, I was just going to say that's a brilliant
way to measure it and it's nice.
In cycling, you can quantify ita little bit better than you
can in running, and I thinkthat's a great way to do it and
to outline it into those twodifferent categories, because
you don't always need to fuelmaximally, right, you don't
always need to be setting yourbody up and like I I like to use
the word like baby it a littlebit, like, give it everything it
(18:28):
needs.
If it's asking for this, giveit to it.
Um, sometimes it's okay tostress it a little bit.
So that's like what you weresaying.
With, like, the aerobic ridesof like, yeah, you're not going
to fully compensate for whatyou're expending in terms of
like, how much you could take in, but that's okay.
But then you do rides where youare going to more replicate
what you would try to do raceday, because that's important
(18:49):
too.
So I think that's a great wayto think about it.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, and I think to our conversation just a few
minutes ago.
Here is like on those aerobicrides we're dialing up the fat
burning needs because we'reseeing more aerobic on the
performance rides.
We're dialing up thecarbohydrate needs, so we need
to dial up the carbohydrateintake, and that's simply put
kind of how it works.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly One thing we didn't mention is
you know how long of a ride doyou need to do before you start
fueling, and that's something tothink about too.
And I use the cut point ofusually two hours for running,
for cycling, it's probably youcould, you could probably push
that up a little bit, butsomewhere between the two ish
(19:33):
hour is when I think it'simportant to start fueling,
because we have enough storedfuel for about 90 minutes to two
hours.
Now if you're doing a reallyhard session and you want to
like maximize it, I wouldrecommend fueling.
So you're going to do like somesort of hard intervals and it's
like overall 90 minute workout,um, I would still take in some
(19:55):
sports drink or some gels duringthat session, just so you are
able to get as much out of it asyou can.
But for, like you're justendurance efforts, you can use
two hours generally as the ruleof thumb for when you need to
start fueling.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yep, completely agree with that.
And um, and in that performancetraining side of things too,
you start throwing in intervals,you start to throw in um, you
know maximum efforts.
You definitely need to startfueling there.
Um, so let's go back to kind ofuh, back to our framework a
little bit.
Do you use uh calories per houror grams per hour of
(20:31):
carbohydrate?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So I use grams per hour usually as like a minimum
and um, uh, for a few reasons.
One is the gels are so easy tolike, keep track of in sports
fuel, but for races, where it'sgoing to get like longer and
we're going to be including realfood, sometimes we talk about
overall calories per hourbecause that is going to include
(20:54):
some mixed meals and it'sreally hard to track, like the
grams of carbohydrate in yourpeanut butter and jelly sandwich
.
So in that case we start to uselike okay, so we're trying to
get around like let's say, 90grams an hour of carbohydrate,
but let's have that be somewherearound like 300 ish calories
per hour, 300 to 400 calories.
(21:16):
But I think the carbohydrate ismostly what we're interested in
.
So I tend to gravitate towardsthat as a way to count intake
for the hour.
But you can use them somewhatinterchangeably.
Knowing that it's about 200 to300 calories per hour is going
to translate into the rightamount of carbohydrate.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Exactly.
And I'd like to educate myathletes and just say look,
there's four calories per gramof carbohydrate.
So all we're going to do simplemath when we're doing our
planning right.
So 60 grams of carbohydrate 60times four, 240 calories per
hour.
Okay, and then you just go backand forth and get super good
(21:59):
with doing that.
Divide by four or multiply byfour, Just remember four.
And the general recommendationis we want to eat most of our
calories from carbohydrate.
So, just like Stephanie said,if you plow down a peanut butter
and jelly sandwich or probablylike half of it or something
like that, you don't need toworry too much about the protein
(22:21):
and fat.
Um, I think you've called itjust like extra sustenance on
those long rides.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Right, Exactly, you hit a key point there with in
your planning.
You do the math, becausesometimes we know that math goes
awry when you're racing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I have had some athletes that say they love to
do math while they're riding,racing, whatever.
When I've heard that I'm likewhat?
Because I'll be doing some hillclimb or something and I'll try
to do math in my head and itnever works well.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Never works.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
well I'm not that equipped.
Yeah, okay, well, glad wetalked about that.
Um, so we're talking aboutgrams per hour, we're talking
about calories per hour.
What's a good starting point,like how do you identify what a
good product even is to startusing?
And and as you know, stephanie,we're brand neutral here, so
(23:18):
anything goes.
How do we what is a good brandand type of gel or sport drink
Sport drink is huge and heavy incycling and how do we?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
know it's actually good.
Yeah, we've got great scienceon this.
So this is one of the thingswhere, like, we can really just
kind of apply the science.
There's not a lot of artsy roomhere and basically there are
different receptors in the gutthat process sugar, carbohydrate
, and the majority processglucose.
But then there are otherreceptors that process fructose
(23:51):
and we know from almost a decadeof science looking at this that
if we combine those two sugars,glucose and fructose, in
different ratios, it's going toget into the body, will get a
little bit more into the bodyquicker and it's not going to
cause GI upset.
So we can kind of geek out onlooking at products that one use
(24:13):
that science to formulate theirproducts.
And then two, when you read theingredients list, you want to
see either glucose ormultidextrin it's the same thing
or sucrose and then fructose asa secondary sugar, and then not
a whole lot else.
You don't want to put a lotelse in your body.
Sometimes there's other, likesmall things in sports products,
(24:36):
and generally they don't hurt,but sometimes, just because it
doesn't hurt, you don'tnecessarily want to put that in
your body.
So I look for a few ingredientsand the brands that I recommend
are purely based off of that,and there's a bunch of them out
there right now, which is reallycool because we've got choices.
(24:57):
So if you are trying to do thisyourself, just look at the
product, look at the ingredientslist and see what that first
and second sugar ingredient arein the product and if there's
something else that might makeyou want to question what that
product is trying to do.
And a lot of times we see thingsthat are trying to like market
(25:18):
to that health conscious, likeoh it's, you know it's a natural
sugar.
I'm like what the heck doesthat mean?
Like sugar sugar or you know,it's like something like there's
like superfoods or buzzwords,that's all kind of Deptogenes,
yeah, so we look for thosesimple sugars as the first
(25:38):
couple ingredients in a product.
I mean.
The brands that I really liketo recommend are Morton, never,
second, precision, scratch Labs,sis, beta Carbs Gel.
Those are kind of the heavyhitters of what's popular right
now and you can do a mix of formfactors.
(25:59):
So in running it's a little biteasier sometimes to eat like
blocks and bars or stroopwafels,Whereas in cycling I know a lot
of my cyclists rely primarilyon gels and sports drink, and
that's fine, it's just kind ofwhat's going to be the best in
terms of like, the ease of useand what you like.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, so we're starting to get that picture or
the framework of what ourtraining sessions should look
like.
I think, um, the way I do thisis I kind of follow the the
Oscar Jukin group kind of modelof sorts, where I identify hard
training days and I basicallyjust think of that as a gut
training day, um, where we putto practice uh, high carb, uh,
(26:49):
you carb, high fuelingstrategies on that training day
to train our gut as well.
Could you tell our audiencewhat a gut training day is and
why we would want to do that ona hard training day?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, so basically, your gut is like a muscle, like
it can adapt to what you stressit with, and so putting in a lot
of carbohydrate on harder orlonger sessions is a good way to
, one, train the gut so that youupregulate the receptors so
it's better able to processthose sugars when you're
training and racing.
(27:23):
And then, two, you learn a lotabout your flavor and form
factor preferences.
So sessions that are great totry this are, of course, your
long sessions, but those areeasy because you're going at a
lower intensity generally.
But I really like to recommendathletes try it on some sort of
hard intensity session Could belike tempo intervals.
(27:45):
It could be like a steady statewhere you're pushing a bit.
Be like tempo intervals.
It could be like a steady statewhere you're pushing a bit Um,
because when you, when you tryto get something in during um,
that intensity, you're going tolearn like what works pretty
quickly and it's also going toput more stress in your gut and
so that's a great time to reallydial it in and and train your
gut.
And it is, uh, generally anacute adaptation.
(28:06):
Like you, you know you can'ttrain your gut like six months
ago and then like roll into arace and be like well, in
December I was training reallywell.
It's like no.
Actually, the closer you get toyour race, the more you should
be dialing that in.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So those gut training days, Imean it's it's high kilojoule
days, it's it's high output days, um, hard hilly days, group
rides even.
And I think, on the cyclingside of things, doing this on a
group ride where there's otherpeople all around you, sometimes
bumping into you intermittenthigh intensity and trying to
(28:41):
figure out how to get the gel,how to get the drink into your
mouth, and stick to that 60 to90 grams of carbohydrate per
hour, that's the best way to doit.
For for a lot of um, like ouraudience listening, who are
doing races with start line andfinish lines and and, um, you
know, curious about how tomaximize their fueling
performance, yeah, anything youcan do to simulate a race
(29:05):
environment is going to beuseful to simulate a race
environment is going to beuseful.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So we've talked a lot aboutcarbohydrate grams per hour and
calories.
What about fluid intake, andhow do you separate your fluid
intake goals from your caloricintake goals?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
That's a good question and it's a little bit
less concrete than thecarbohydrate grams per hour
because everyone is different.
The best way to find out aboutyour hydration needs is to do a
sweat rate test, so differentthan a sweat sodium test.
A sweat rate test is reallysimple to do and the best way to
do it is to pick like a onehour endurance ride and to weigh
(29:51):
yourself pre and post, subtractany fluids that you consume and
you get your sweat rate forthat hour ride.
So your hourly rate Keeping inmind that is your sweat rate for
those conditions, right, thoseenvironmental conditions.
It will change in hot and humidconditions.
It will change actually as yourfitness changes.
(30:12):
So it's a good one to repeat onoccasion so you can get your
number kind of dialed in fordifferent temperature ranges.
In running we like to separatehydration and calories because
sometimes it's hard to matchyour caloric need to your
hydration need.
Now, that's a little bitindividual.
If you're not like a reallyheavy sweater and it's not super
(30:33):
hot, it's easy to kind ofaccommodate both.
But what I recommend is if youwant to use a sports drink with
calories in it, that you alsouse water because you want to be
able to drink when you need to.
And sometimes a sports drink istoo concentrated for the
environmental conditions.
So if it's super hot and you'resweating a lot and you're
(30:54):
trying to replace all of thathydration with a sports drink,
you can overwhelm your gut.
So it's kind of like doing alittle bit of thinking, a little
bit of preparation ahead oftime and kind of identifying if
you want to do a sports drink,making sure that's going to be
appropriate and that you're notgoing to over consume your
calories.
And that's easy to figure out,because if you know, like okay,
(31:16):
I'm losing a liter an hour,which would be kind of on the
mid to lower end of the range,then you want to make sure that
your sports drink isn't going tobe so concentrated that you're
taking in, let's say, 800calories in that hour, because
that's going to be too much foryour gut drink and a bottle of
(31:37):
water.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
in that water, not only does it help to dilute the
gut and help with hydration andkeeping it kind of like cleared
(31:59):
out, but it also like washes thesugar off your mouth, to like
it keeps your palate more happy.
Am I right in that?
Is that a thing?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, I mean sometimes you just want plain
water because you get palatefatigue from all the sweet gels
and sports products, and so I dothe exact same thing.
I do a bottle of scratch, abottle of water, and the water
can sometimes be a savior whenyou're just like I just need
something neutral to drink.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So true.
And on top of that, uh, I usedto do all these uh Leadville, uh
race day planning talks and andplanning talks and I
incorporated this message intoit and it wasn't mine, it was
actually Daniel Matheny kind ofcame up with this lingo and what
he said was the best nutritionplan won't work on a dehydrated
(32:43):
gut.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Meaning get your hydration right.
Otherwise, all the high carband everything it's going to go
sideways.
It's a your hydration right.
Otherwise, all this, like allthe high carb and everything
it's it's not, it's going to gosideways.
It's GI issue right.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Totally, you gotta.
You gotta think about thelowest hanging fruit first and
once you are, you're like takingcare of that, then you can go
to the next step.
If you're just going up to likethe carbohydrate grams per hour
and ignoring your hydrationneeds, yeah, it's not going to
work, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So my general broad recommendation is 20 to 40 fluid
ounces per hour should covermost people, most often without
doing a sweat test or a sweatrate test.
Would you agree with that anddoes everybody listening?
Would you recommend that atsome point they do a sweat rate
test?
Yeah, I agree with that anddoes everybody listening?
(33:29):
Would you recommend that atsome point they do a sweat rate
test?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, I agree with that and I think that's a good
general range.
You can also like to someextent, use thirst as your guide
.
That's not the best way tostart a plan, but within that
framework, if you have somenumbers that you're working
within, yeah, you can like, ifyou're thirsty, drink.
If you're not thirsty, you know, just make sure you're you're
getting the baseline.
I don't think it's necessary toalways do a sweat rate test,
(33:55):
because most people have an ideaif they're heavy sweater or if
they're, if they're not, and ifyou, if you are a heavy sweater,
you generally know that and youprobably want to be at the
higher end of the range and kindof a crude way you can.
You can determine that isactually by the color of your
urine, which again isn't themost scientific and shouldn't be
where you start, but it's likeit can confirm that you're
(34:17):
within the range.
So I do think that's a goodstarting point and then, within
that range, just dial it intoyour specific individual needs.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah.
And lastly, you know, don'toverthink it too.
On hotter days you're going tosweat more, so drink more fluid.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Exactly, I'm a big fan of not overcomplicating it
too much.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It's just like yeah.
And if you're feeling thirstyand you think, and you think oh,
I didn't do my sweat rate testfor 92 degrees in humidity, what
should I do?
Just drink more?
You don't need to.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, just drink some water, eat some things, drink
some water, ride your bike.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yes, but Stephanie and I are stressing out and
nerding out about this frameworkto help everyone have a good
starting point and then notsweat the details, the small
details, to make it punny abouthow to adjust on the fly.
So hopefully this is startingto shape that up and before we
close out this podcast, I dowant to ask about pre
pre-training fueling.
(35:27):
So I'm going to talk about like24, 36 hour pre-fueling in one
to two hour pre-fueling,primarily because our bodies are
storage tanks for glycogen,right, and it's also storage
tanks for liquid plasma thathelps us to sweat and cool us.
So, stephanie, how important isthat 24 to 36 hour window?
(35:51):
Uh, pre race or pre workout, ifyou've got a big thing coming
the next day, and what do youtell your athletes to do in that
24 to 36 hours to prepare forthe big thing?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, Um, that that is a really important thing to
try out before you get to thatbig event, because it can make a
difference.
We obviously want to have ourglycogen supplies topped off,
and you know, so we're startingour event with a full tank, if
you will.
And when we think about how todo that, when I'm working with
(36:24):
an athlete, generally I try tohave them eating well, like well
.
It would be nice months leadingin, but at least the week
leading in, so that they don'tput pressure on the day before
to carbo load.
Generally nobody feels goodwhen you carbo load, and so we
want to make sure we have enoughcarbohydrate but you can't
super compensate.
(36:45):
So what that looks like isgoing back to all three
macronutrients, right,Carbohydrate, fat and protein.
But I do think it's importantto think about the type in the
24 to 30 hours before andgenerally lower fiber.
So not as many, like you know,colorful leafy greens and
vegetables and that sort ofthing Save that for like after
(37:07):
the race or, you know, likeearlier in the week.
So sometimes I don't eat anyvegetables the day before race,
just depending on the duration,because I want to wake up and
not have my stomach just be likesloshing and gurgling and have
to go to the bathroom a milliontimes.
So keep it simple, eat enough.
I think a good way again wedon't want to overthink it of
like trying to do math and likecalculate out our needs.
(37:29):
Just don't let yourself gethungry, Like you don't have to
overstuff yourself, but the daybefore, like eat three meals and
if you're still feeling alittle bit hungry, have a snack.
And, generally speaking, thatshould be like a simpler
carbohydrate.
So rice, potatoes, corntortillas, pasta depending on
(37:51):
how polarizing that is rice Idon't know if I already said
that those are good, easy todigest carbohydrates.
Pair them with a high qualityprotein.
So eggs, chicken, fish, beans,lentils and then some fat like
avocado or olive oil.
That's a really greatcombination of foods that'll sit
(38:11):
well and then not be a problemin the morning.
And then, if we think about themorning of, this is when you
really want to dial in duringtraining so that when you go to
the event it's like you've doneit a million times.
You're super comfortable.
I eat my oatmeal with my peanutbutter and then I go ride my
bike.
So, again, it doesn't have tobe a large meal.
(38:33):
We don't need to overstuffourselves, but somewhere between
usually like 200 to 500calories, depending on the
duration and the individual, ofmostly simple carbohydrates.
So, again, oatmeal, toast,yogurt and then a little bit of
fat and protein.
That's going to help keep youfull.
(38:55):
So nut butter is a great onehere.
An egg or two avocado, somethinglike that generally sits pretty
well and is going to give youthe carbohydrate you need.
Because, again, we're toppingoff glycogen stores, because
when you go to bed at night,your body doesn't just turn off,
it's still using glycogenduring the night.
So we top it off and then youdon't want to have to digest a
(39:20):
lot of food, you don't want itto sit in your stomach.
So, keeping it on the lighterside and on the lower fiber and
lower overall fat and proteinside.
So that's something that issomewhat individual.
So try it out in training andalso think about where you're
going to be during an event.
So, if you're travelingsomewhere, what's an
(39:40):
easy-to-replicate breakfast?
Because if you're reallyspecific about making this
smoothie with 10 differentthings in it, that may not be
something you can do like on theroad.
So that's an importantconsideration as well.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, why is that smoothie with a million
ingredients so popular right now?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Um, but uh, all all jesting aside, how to do this is
, for most of us listening here,saturdays is our long ride.
You know, sundays may be thelong ride, whatever.
When you, when you'repracticing this and you're
leading up to say, the unboundor the Treco or Leadville or
your long, you know raceplanning sort of thing, but
(40:22):
you're doing it in trainingright now and you got the five
hour ride on Saturday.
Start to eat really well, highcarbohydrate, and don't let
yourself get hungry Thursdaynight going through Friday and
then you lead into that race.
Have a normal breakfast away,you go.
That's a very good pre-trainingfueling habit to get into.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, you'll get more of those sessions as well.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
For sure, for sure.
So we'll leave it there for now, because all this is going to
lead into how to put thistogether for race day planning.
Okay, but that's our nextpodcast, so, uh, we'll leave it
there for today.
Be sure to come back next weekto hear more from Stephanie
about how to put this alltogether for race day planning.
(41:06):
Stephanie, thank you again forjoining us here on the Time
Crunch Cyclist Podcast.
Thanks for joining us on theTime Crunch Cyclist Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
If you want even moreactionable training advice, head
over to trainrightcom backslashnewsletter and subscribe to our
free weekly publication.
(41:26):
Each week, you'll get in-depthtraining content that goes
beyond what we cover here on thepodcast.
That'll help you take yourtraining to the next level.
That's all for now.
Until next time, train hard,train smart, train right.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.