Nick Piccone Interview -- 10/21/23

Nick Piccone joins Mark Henry Jr. and Sean Barnard and tries to make sense of where the #Phillies are after blowing two back-to-back games in Arizona as the series is now tied 2-2 heading into Game 5 tonight.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Time to get ready for the day'saction, from the sides to the totals
and everything in between. Nobody doesit better than the top cover with Mark
Henry right here. I'm the Gambler. What do you see? The contality,

(00:27):
I know you're ready, I don'tknow what you dreamed personality. I'm
Kennedy, the Coast personality, theCoton personality, the Coachtown personality. Hello,

(00:58):
and welcome to a dreary edition ofthe Tough Cover Radio Show. It
is Saturday, October twenty first,and we got ourselves in NLCS. We
didn't want to have ourselves in NLCS, but here we are. And it's

(01:18):
tied to too with the Arizona Diamondbacks. And that's what we're gonna be talking
about for a lot of this show, at least at the start of it.
We will get to the college footballpicks in the second part of the
first hour, as well as NFLpicks. Sean Bernard we're letting him out
of his NBA cage in the secondhour. We're gonna be doing NBA win
totals, a little Tough Cover NBAseason preview in the second hour. But

(01:42):
we've got Nick Picone here. Youcan follow Nick Picone on Twitter. You
know, always a great follow,especially after wins. After wins, Nick
Pecone, I can live on NickPiccone's Twitter account for you know, hours
upon a time. You know,the camp I don't know how you say
his name, Campanazo, the Spanishcalls, the Franski calls, all of

(02:06):
the you know, all the callsthat France that Nick puts up and uh,
but we're not here to talk aboutthose today, Nick, unfortunately.
And you can follow I burned lead. You can follow Nick Piccone at Underscore
Pracone on Twitter. Nick two lossesin a row in Arizona. And I
think I'm for the first time Ithink on this show that I'm bringing you

(02:30):
on, and I've had you onI think four or five, maybe six
times over the year. I thinkI'm the one that's much more negative and
much more down in the dumps andeven more pessimistic on this show. Is
that is that fair to say?Yeah? Because I'm not there, which
is probably surprising to you. Iknow, I kind of had an epiphany,
I guess, because I couldn't reallyexplain during the regular season why I

(02:54):
you know that you pointed out likeI was Megadelphia and I was like,
Okay, I'm not trying to belike, let me think about it,
Like, why do I react incertain ways that make other people view me
as a negative guy when like ifit were just like sitting at a bar,
sitting on the couch, like youwouldn't really hear me, you know
that come out of me. Ithink it was more because like we're fighting

(03:15):
with fourteen other teams in the regularseason, so that I think kind of
trumped everything I was I was thinkingabout during the regular season. It's like,
Okay, now in the playoffs,we can focus on one team at
a time, and even the gametoo lost to the Braves. Yeah,
gut punch. But I'm a firmbeliever and someone who I'm sure this is

(03:39):
an old adage. You know,momentum in baseball is only as good as
your next starter starting pitcher. Soyou know, that's probably why I don't
believe in momentum game the game somuch. Yeah, last night's game,
maybe it's my fault. I hadall the Diamond radio calls ready, but

(04:00):
I didn't post them. I hada feeling, you know, like I'll
wait till after the game, youknow, Yea, So maybe it's me.
Maybe I should have posted them.Maybe I would have, you know,
helped Craig kimberl out or something.But yeah, I'm again, last
night's loss didn't have anything to dowith the previous loss. So that's where
I'm at. I'm like, Okay, tonight's game, you know, they

(04:23):
come out with a win. We'restill probably gonna sting about the back to
back losses, but it's not gonnabe as bad because we're up free to
coming home. But yeah, that'snot kind of the positive spin people want
to hear, especially after the gameand how terrible, Like, hey,
at least it wasn't the bottom ofthe ninth, right, at least we
had a shot to tie the gameat least. So yeah, this this

(04:46):
group never gives up. And Ithink that's where I'm at. Where,
Yeah, the backs against the wallprobably the biggest diversity they faced the playoffs.
Obviously you can make an argument forGame two in Atlanta, but I
just didn't have a feeling that thatwould affect them, especially coming back home.
But yeah, it's just one ofthose things where you can blame everybody,

(05:06):
like you can put blame on RobThompson, you can put blame on
Craig Kimbrel, the big hitters inthe lineup home stot just Rojas. I
know expectations shouldn't be as big forRojas in the lineup, but hey he
had a triple yes, so heyhe did something. Uh yeah, just
the bullpen usage. I understand wherewhere people are kind of in that negative

(05:31):
feeling and thinking that, you know, if Zack Wheeler doesn't pitch like an
ace and I we're in a badshape. But hey, we're still locked
in to come home at the veryleast for Game six, So I got
to take a game by game.It's still series is tied. Where we're
I think we're in good shape.Wheeler Nola coming up, lineup's got a

(05:56):
hit, So I'm you know,focus on the Diamondbacks. So I'm I
guess I'm not as negative because Ijust think it's a night's game, will
be completely different than the last two, and we're gonna play real quick.
We're gonna play blame Pie, andwe're gonna, you know, pre do
the game I do. I dida terrible job introing the show. Let
me intro my co host over there, Sean Bernard. I wanted to let

(06:16):
him have a chance to chime inhere on the fills too. You could
follow Sean Bernard of course at SeanUnderscore Bernard One and Sean you texted me
because I was, like, youknow, texting this morning when it's funny,
like I think a lot of youknow, Philadelphia radio hosts, and
you know, I think a lotof people out there, not that they
enjoy doing the shows after losses,but I think they work themselves up and

(06:42):
it's like they almost get excited andthey go on these rants and they they
plan these rants. And that's fine, and I'm you know, side eyeing
a specific person at a specific radiostation right now for a rant that was
out there this morning. But Idread these shows, like when we have
these horrible losses like the sixer tothe Celtics and you know, the super
Bowl all this, like I thinkI skipped the shot of the super Bowl.

(07:03):
I dread these shows more than anybody. Sean Bernard texted me, He's
not heartbroken, he's pissed off.I don't know if I've seen a pissed
off Sean Bernard as a fan.Maybe the Sixers a little bit. I
feel like that was a little bitmore on the heartbroken side of things too.
But Sean, the floor is yours. Where are you at? Yeah,

(07:23):
it's frustrating because two very different gameswith the walk off in the ninth
inning in Game three, which thatshould be the heartbreaker, you're getting walked
off. It feels like there isn'ta worse way to lose a baseball game,
and yet here we come in gamefour, and to me, that
game was so much worse of aloss and so much from an emotional standpoint,
from having the game in hands,from kind of like being on your
timeline of a plan, like youhad the bridge to finish this game.

(07:46):
And then if you want to playthe blame game and toss around and specifically
to speak, why I'm pissed offand at who Number one is Craig kimberl
Is, just do your job.But number two Rob Thompson. Everyone in
the entire world knew that Craig Kimberrellwouldn't do his jab, And I get
like, you kind of have to. This is the guy that got us
here. This is the same guythat was an All Star closer this year.
Like he's a huge reason why thePhillies are here. There's no doubt

(08:09):
about it. But you still gotto look at the situation for what it
is, and there was no chancethat Craig Kimroll had these stuff like he
looks like a different pitcher than hedid earlier in the season. There were
moments earlier in the year where wasI was bought in. There was like
a vibrant aura to kim Roll onthe mound of like this guy's got it,
that is so far gone and Ireally don't know how you put him
back on the mound. And Ithink this game, specifically tonight, is

(08:31):
going to tell a lot about RobThompson as a manager, because I think
his downfall is very much his loyalty. Like you think back to last year's
put postseason on obviously coming up shortin the World Series a big reason why
they came up short and not thelone reason for sure, but he rode
with Castianos until the ship sank.Do you make that same decision this year?
Do you keep sticking with these guys, with the guys like Alec Bohm

(08:52):
who are very clearly in his headat this point, And I think that's
leaking into the field right now.The bullpen decisions are going to be a
huge thing tonight and don't pull yourstars so early. Don't be riding on
the bullpen. I had a hugeissue with it with Christopher Sanchez last night.
I know he let up a coupleruns, but he did not pitch
bad forgetting the outs was bad.That was a bad look for sure.
I thought he pulled Ranger too earlyin Game three as well. So for

(09:13):
me, I think tonight I havevery much had my eyes glued to Rob
Thompson's decision making and I think thisis very much a legacy game for him.
I wanted to chime in real quick, and I actually, you know,
last night I was pretty upset withTopper and I just want to say
I don't think that loss was onTopper. I don't think that he managed

(09:35):
his way out of the loss.And I know everyone's going to say,
we all knew what was gonna happenwith Kimberl. Did we want Walker out
there? Did we want Lorenzen outthere? Like I kind of think it
was the only move that he hadto make there. I think that there's
there are things you can nippick.Because I thought Sanchez was pulled too early.
I wish he was left in longer. I thought Strom could have been
used on a bit of a wraparound, like he was a starter earlier

(09:58):
this year and they took him outfast. Maybe you use him for two
or three innings. I don't knowif that's knowing you have to use him
tonight because he didn't pitch in Gamethree, so he is definitely available tonight.
I thought, maybe you leave SirAnthony in for another batter or two.
They wrapped him around and then theyonly left him out there for one
pitch he got an out. Maybeyou little left him in a little longer.
The one thing that I did thinkwas his worst decision was maybe when

(10:22):
you put Sodo in, it shouldhave been Alvarado, Like, I think
that's the time you just go forthe kill. You worry about the ninth
later, you hope you score someruns and you go, all right,
we're up five to two, let'sput Sodo in here instead of then you
end up having to use Kirkering inthat spot. And again I don't know
who else he should have used,maybe Lorenzen Like, it's just at a

(10:43):
certain point, it all comes backto taking Sanchez out so early. It's
hard to have eight bullpen guys allon their stuff, and Nick, I
want to turn it to you becauseI think a lot of the conversation's gonna
just be the bullpen stinks, theoverall bullpens, and I think that's the
overarching take. But is it fairto say that four to sevenths of the

(11:07):
bullpen has been very good? Sodoup and down? So it has been
good at times, been down thetimes hasn't really killed you at any point,
but has had up and down momentsof not finding the strike zone.
And then Kimberly and Kirkering. Kimberlyand Kirkering have very clearly been bad.
Do you think that kind of thebullpen's being painted with too broad of a
brush a little bit in saying itstinks because you look at sir Anthony,

(11:30):
you look at Hoffmann, Strom Alvarado, of course, like those guys have
come through. Yeah, I wouldagree that it's probably painting broad brush the
whole bullpen. I remember earlier thisyear I was afraid that the bullpen was
being used too much. Like earlymid season, I think you threw a
stat out that the Phillies weren't evenleading the league, and you know,

(11:56):
among bullpen uses. They were likemiddle of the pack, Like every team
was using their bullpen a lot.And that has a lot to do obviously
with you know, starting openers andstuff like that. Different teams do different
things with their pitching staff now.But like my main thing, and this
was a great doomsday scenario for sure, I thought, oh, they're like

(12:16):
I'm in a game in June andI'm seeing like these great relievers being used
on a constant basis, almost likeevery day, and I'm like, I
really hope this doesn't come back tobite them. To their credit, some
of them, maybe that's the casewith Kimberle. You can make an argument
that maybe he was used too muchin the regular season and he just you
know lost his stuff. The guyslike Alvarado, you know, Hoffman came

(12:39):
out of nowhere. That's not thecase for those guys, you know,
like they weren't overused because they're performingwell and the most stressful situations you could
possibly have in baseball right now.So I'm kind of like in the middle
where I just want to I don'twant Rob to just blindly trust these guys,
and I know put Kirkering in there, and people were like, why

(13:01):
would you put Cookering in that situationthe rookie walked in or run. But
at the same time, you're eithera dog or you're not, you know,
like I at this point, doyou care that he's a rookie or
do you care that he's shown thathe can get out of these situations,
whether it be the regular season oryou know, if he was you know,
in earlier playoff games. He's gotto get through this. But yeah,

(13:24):
I wasn't a fan of that specifically, but that's Rob's job, you
know. Does he have a feelingthat Kirkering can get out of this or
can Kimber'll get out of this?And it's really a gut feeling for him,
I think. And obviously statistics playplay a role, of data plays
a role. The good thing iswe don't have to worry about Kimberle tonight,

(13:45):
and if they lose, that's obviouslynot going to be the reason they
lose. He got to hit theball too. I mean, that's the
whole other discussion, and I'm surewe'll touch on. But the bullpen,
I don't think is the unraveling ofthe two games. I don't think that
that's fair, especially Game three.You know, the batch just worked dead

(14:05):
the entire time, so and thebullpen kept them in the game the whole
game. So yeah, last nightit was just like a bad night.
You hope that the main guys aren'ttired out and they're not burnt out,
but I don't. I don't seethat as much as you know, like
I feared in the middle of theseason that we would see that. In
October. I'm still feeling relatively goodabout the bullpen, but you also need

(14:28):
your starters go go deep and bringingin Hoffman and like the third inning yesterday,
that was probably the biggest gripe Ihad about Thompson's U sug yesterday.
But again, if you're not goingto use Walker and you're not gonna use
Lorenzen because you plan to use themtonight, But like I understand that,
you know, that's just how itis. That's just the decision he made,

(14:48):
and we hopefully can live with itand not die with it. Yeah,
And I don't want to be toohard on Toper overall, because for
the most part, he's been greatwith all these decisions makings that he's pulled
all the right strings in general.But I totally agreed the Jeff point is
when I wanted to jump on that, that was my biggest issue. And
Mark, I agreed with your lasttake like situationally with like what are their
better options, But the reason they'rein that situation is because of the previous

(15:11):
decisions of setting things up like that. And I just philosophically disagree with Topper
on like the leverage conversation. AndI get it, like those were massive
outs that Hoffman brought in, butyou have to play nine innings in a
baseball game no matter what. Andthat's something that I think, like I've
I've felt like this with topper fromsince he took over of this concept of
going through last year not having atrue closer, going with like the higher

(15:33):
stake situation, the matchups and allthat thing, but like the bottom line
to me is the ninth inning isalways going to be a huge inning if
it's a close game, Like youhave to keep that in mind. And
I feel like he kind of goeswith the guys too early with like he
I feel like he tries to winthe game in the fifth inning sometimes,
which you just can't do in baseball. And I'm curious your guys kind of
thoughts on that, and I getthere's a balance to it, there's a

(15:56):
lot to each situation in this,but I think Topper gets way too focused
on like winning each inning, whenlike, we have a whole game to
play, no matter what. Ithink a lot of that trust comes down
to hoping you can maintain a leadin the early innings and blow it open,
which you see in Game two andyou know, you only hit three
hits off Merrill Kelly, but they'reall homers and it's three nothing for a

(16:17):
long part of the game. Thebullpen gets you through an early you know
they pulled Nola a little early,but not that or I mean, I
guess he went six innings and thenit explodes in the six seventh inning around
that time, and that happens alot. I do. I agree with
playing matchups, like I think thelefty righty thing does matter, but do

(16:38):
I think sometimes you can get alittle too locked in, And then I
think sometimes he ignores it and he'ssupposed to be this like matchup guy,
and I like, I think RobThompson's a better manager than we've had in
Philadelphia in a really long time.So we're nitpicking, and it's always gonna
come down to things like this,and you know there's gonna be bad decisions,
there's gonna be good decisions. Lastyear, every decision he pulled was

(17:00):
correct until the final one. Andbringing in Alvarado for Wheeler now kind of
shifting to tonight and looking at thebullpen usage for tonight, because I think
that's where everyone's mind's at. It'son Wheeler and you're I think we all
feel confident you're getting five from Wheelerno matter what, Like that's just a
given. You're getting five. Gotto be six tonight. You need six

(17:22):
tonight, and honestly, if youcan get seven, that changes the entire
game. But looking at the guyswho are unavailable, you have to imagine
this isn't a We're not it's notan elimination game. So you cannot use
Alvarado tonight in my opinion, LikeI don't want to see a guy throwing
the third straight night. That's justnot smart baseball. We've seen it enough
through the years. You don't throwa reliever three straight pit innings for three

(17:45):
straight days, especially when Alvarado twodays ago throw a lot of pitches in
Game three. You obviously kimber andKirkring are off the table for multiple reasons
for three days, and that reasonHoffman also pitched two straight days. I
don't really want to see Hoffman tonight, even though Hoffman's maybe the guy I
trust the most. But taking thoseaside, that means you have Wheeler and

(18:07):
then the available lefties you have areSodo and Strom, and the available rights
you have are Sir Anthony, andthat's probably it, right, Like you
probably have Sodo, Stram, andSir Anthony out of the pen. Maybe
Wheeler's available, who knows, likemaybe or not Wheeler, I mean,
my my apologies, Maybe Rangers available. They did that last year in the

(18:29):
NLCS where they brought him in asituation like that, So maybe Ranger could
be available, and then you bringhim out anyway for Game seven if necessary.
But what do you think is kindof the plan for Topics? I
think, in my opinion the planis probably Wheeler goes seven, Strom and
Sir Anthony mixmatch the eighth and ninth, and then if Wheeler can't go seven,
you probably bring in Sodo for alefty matchup in the sixth or seventh.

(18:53):
That's probably the plan, and thenRangers the break glass in case of
emergency. Is that? What doyou think about that next? Yeah,
I mean, and you also gotto think if he didn't use and I
know I mentioned this earlier Walker andLorenzo and yesterday, I feel like we're
gonna see them, like we haveto write like their bullpen arms are,
like you just laid out four guysthat are basically their bullpen tonight. That

(19:18):
might not be enough. So hopefullywith Wheeler on the mound it is.
But again, you can't just takeit for granted. I guess us like
we can't take it for granted.Obviously Topper knows his plan. But yeah,
if you get Walker and I knowthey're both right e's, but you
know, that's kind of got tobe. Those were the only two pitchers
left yesterday after they used all thosepictures. At the end of the Kimberle

(19:42):
was in in the eighth inning andthey put a list of on the screen
of all the guys of the bullpen. Everyone had been used except Walker and
Lorenzen. So I do think wesee them if Wheeler can't go, you
know, a complete game, whichwould be really nice. But also got
to think about you know, you'reright, it's not an elimination game either.

(20:03):
So even if they lose tonight andit would suck, like trust me,
being down three two and even cominghome like the game six and seven
being a Philly doesn't make me feelbetter personally. It's like they're still down
three two in the series and Arizonacan easily steal one. So that's where
we're at right now. Where ifthey win tonight and we see Walker and

(20:27):
Lorenzo and I think we'll be inpretty really good shape, you know,
headed into Game six with the bullpenmainly, but yeah, Wheeler's probably got
to pitch another game of his lifeto get into the sixth seventh inning to
mitigate that, you know, andhopefully the Bats give him a big enough
lead and give the bullpen a bigenough lead to there is margin forever that

(20:49):
ultimately will not cost them the game. And that's the frustrating part about losing
back to back losses because if wewere up three to one, much less
stress when it comes to bullpen,and there's probably much less stress on Zach
Wheeler as well. Maybe there's muchless stress on the lineup. I don't
know how they go about their business, but we also know and I'm a

(21:14):
you know, last night's game isnot going to affect tonight's and the firm
believer in that momentum. I understandit, and I understand why people use
that. Again, there's no offday, so yeah, they playing the
game right after a heartbreaking loss.You just have to find a way.
I think this Phillies team, we'veseen like can they find a way?

(21:37):
And they've found a way when therat's upper against the wall, So I
can't. I know there's a lotof people already counting them out. Series
over. You know, you getthose back to back losses or as debilitating
as could be, you're not goingto come back from that. I just
don't subscribe to that theory. Sogoing into this with like a clean slate

(21:57):
any other game, you know,series is tied to too. You're not
going to end your season if youlose tonight, but it would be nice
to get a win. And Ido think Lorenzo and Walker might be a
big part of that, whether whetherit gives us you know, for what
you know. I go back andforth on the momentum thing, you know,

(22:18):
I think, like the analytical sideof my brain. Obviously, the
analytic community doesn't think momentum is realin general, in any sport, in
any situation, and I have ahard time believing that. But you know,
then there are times where I doone hundred percent subscribe to the belief
that it is just, you know, momentums as good as your next starting
pitcher. So I really do goback and forth on I don't think we're

(22:41):
gonna see Walker Lorenzen like I thinkthey were on the roster for mop up
duty. I really think that's whatit was. Maybe if it's again,
we might, yeah, definitely,definitely if we have a four plus run
lead, I think they would theywould maybe bring them out, but I
think they would go to that thatgroup, Sodostram, Sir Anthony, and
then you'd have some conversation. Maybethey would use them before they would use

(23:04):
Ranger. But I just think theywould trust Ranger so much in a high
leverage spot. But who knows.Rob's gotta you know, Rob's got a
plan and we don't know it.That's that was clear after last night.
So listener pissed off a Great GymGame three, so you know they have
a hit them. I wouldn't beopposed to that either. Greatest career postseason

(23:26):
e ra A of all time,passing Christy Matthewson and Sandy Kofax. And
we wasted those starts and we've ruinedhis perfect, you know, undefeated postseason
streak. It's a shame. Yeah, it's it's a terrible loss. We're
gonna be talking about that loss throughoutthe show. Uh. We got Nick
Picconia, we got Sean bern Onemore question, uh before we before we

(23:47):
turn it over. So I gotpeople yelling at me to give out my
college football picks. Uh, thesethese hyenas, But one more question before
we go. I guess you Ianswered it a little bit there when we
were talking about Game five and wewere talking about what we thought would happen.
Zach Gallen is pitching on the moundfor Arizona. His home stats are

(24:11):
extremely good. He's probably one ofthe best pitchers in baseball at home in
any stadium. And we've seen inArizona the humid or the closed roof,
like the ball's not traveling, andthat's how we beat Zach Gallen in Game
one. Where is your read onwhat happens with the bats tonight? Because
I think I'm actually less concerned aboutthe bats in general. I didn't think

(24:33):
they were that bad yesterday. Obviouslythere was some big at bats and big
spots where we really could have had, you know, a different outcome.
Stot has been really disappointing. I'mnot concerned long term about the bats,
or I'm not concerned in the seriesoverall about the bats, But I do
think there's a chance that Zach Gallenis a completely different pitcher than he was

(24:55):
in Game one. I guess,what do you guys, what's your guys
read on the offense, and I'llthrow it to Sean First. Actually,
yeah, I mean for starters.I think the fact that Zach Allen pretty
much had a stinker in Game onemakes it more likely that he comes out
to deal today that I think he'snot going to make those same mistakes twice.
So I think we're going to bein it for a pitcher's duol for
the start of this game. Asfar as the bats as a hole,

(25:15):
Alec Bohm's been my biggest concern.I was real hard on him after Game
three. I thought they weren't evenlooking to pitch to Bryce because they wanted
to get to Boom. And that'san overarching concern that won't go away until
he proves teams that he can hit. And my biggest issue is now I
feel like he's starting to spiral alittle bit, like that overthrow to Bryce
on that routine play. And forthe most part, Boone's been so good

(25:37):
defensively, especially this postseason, butit feels like he's starting to slip a
little bit. I think the bestoutcome of this is, for sure,
for Boom to walk up there andhit a nice double and kind of calm
the nerves or whatever happens there.But I do think that there needs to
be some shakeup. And my issuewith it is like I was thinking about
moving Castianos behind Harper, but Castianoslooks lost up there too. He's swinging
for the fences on every pitch.You can see his head turning all the

(25:59):
way out of there. And asa whole, I guess my issue with
this team is we love it whenthe vibes are high, how all these
guys are building off each other,how we're seeing everything. I disagree.
I know what you're gonna say,I actually hate the stake, So go
ahead, I'm gonna say that disagreement. Yeah, yeah, I love it.
When the vibes are high, whenit's spiraling, all these guys are
on top of each other, allthe bats are hit, and it's hitting

(26:19):
season. But it feels like whenthings start to go south, that there
is still this connectivity that these guysstill feed off each other's energy. And
I thought last night when Shorber hitthat homer, that that was going to
break that start to open things upa little bit. But it feels like
there's just like a lack of energyon this team on specifically last night,
that isn't really there. So Ineed that to change. And I feel

(26:40):
like that sometimes they stick together alittle too much in that regard to I
think that's just like and this isnot me coming after you, because I
understand totally that point of view.And I think that that is something that
gets talked about a lot with theSixers when they win and when they lose,
in the attitude that they show.In my opinion, and this might
just be me being like a computer, but in my opinion, I think

(27:02):
that's just like the Classic, whenthey win, it's happy, and when
we lose for mad like, Idon't think that it's anything like beyond.
I don't think that they're feeding offnegative energy. I think they're just not
doing well, and when that happens, there's less positive like happiness to see
guys celebrating. Like I just thinkthat. I think it's just a results

(27:22):
based thing, and I don't.I don't. I'm not concerned about that.
But and you know what, I'llgo at it. I'll say it
the one Twitter account, Panasonic whateverthat that Twitter account they came after me
before, but whatever, they tweetedout something about how this team has no
leaders and about how this team hasno one that will go around and talk

(27:45):
talk to the team, and noone that will take accountability. This team
has been through more adversity than youknow most baseball teams have to go through,
and we don't have to hash outthe reasons why. I think a
lot of it's based in the citythat they play. But taking all that
aside, because this city has steppedup in such an incredible way to help
the team. So it's hard tobe too negative about the fan base.

(28:07):
But I think it's absolutely utterly disrespectfuland insane to this ball club to talk
about how there's a lack of leadershipand a lack of accountability. But that
has been one of the main reasonsthat the city of Philadelphia has connected to
this team. I guess I'll throwthat to you, Nick, not to

(28:27):
get not to get you in troubleover there, but I'll throw that to
you. What's your take on peoplesaying there's a lack of accountability, a
lack of leadership, and even ifyou want to chime in on Shaun's take,
yeah, you know I will.By the way, Sean and I
have someone Alec Bohm, but yeah, I mean, like I I think
at this point the last two seasonswith the same core group of guys in

(28:51):
the New Ada trade turner this yearto say they don't have leaders I don't
agree with that assessment. I agreewith the assessment they don't have vocally in
the media, maybe that will comeout, and you know, basically they
what do they say publicly, likewe just have to play better. You
know that's I'm sure behind closed words, they're holding each other accountable to practicing

(29:12):
like we've heard too many sound bitesand yeah, maybe it's lip service,
but hey, sometimes we need thatwhere these guys are working on things,
they're not just lackadaisical, just youknow, doing the same things hoping to
break out of it. They're workinghard, and a lot of times when
you work hard, you make moremistakes, so, especially in baseball,

(29:32):
game of failure for sure. SoI do think that they have leaders in
the clubhouse that do hold each otheraccountable, but maybe they're not the type
of in your face, get youryou know, stuff together type leaders,
which some clubhouses you have that.Other clubhouses you have that where it's a
tight knit group, and then somebodydoes that and then you kind of,
you know, kind of falters alittle bit. I think these guys being

(29:56):
together for two years at this point, I I mean, they've been to
two nlcs is back to back tosay they don't have leaders, I just
don't agree with that assessment. ButI will say I would agree that maybe
they're not vocal. I know Bryceeven has said before maybe not him specifically,
but it's out there that he's nota vocal leader. You know,

(30:18):
he just comes in. He's likea lead by example type guy, and
people look at that and that's youknow, kind of like throughout my life
in certain aspects, like I've beena lead by example type guy. I'm
not a guy that's gonna, youknow again, anybody's face be like,
well man, God, like theyknow that these guys know what they have
to do. So I think theyby that example, they they certainly have

(30:40):
leaders in the clubhouse. And toShaun's point about Alec Bohm that throws just
like I throw my hands up inthe air, but like, what could
possibly be a less stressful play tomake? And then you just throw it
high? And why like he looksat the ball before he throws it,
like he grabs it and then helooks at it and then he throws it.
And that just be in like athird basement when I was when I

(31:00):
played baseball, and I'm just Idon't like that, you know, like
I understand. It's like, youknow, you got to get in a
flow too. Some fielders have aflow where they, you know, field
a ground ball and then throw it. So that's Boom's flow pretty much.
We see him stare at the baseballand then throw it, and obviously that
just costs some Sanchez forgetting the numberof outs too. These this team has

(31:25):
made so many mistakes that the Diamondbackshave taken advantage of. And you know
that doesn't happen all the time.Teams don't take advantage of mistakes all the
time. So the fact that Arizonahas, you know that that's frustrating and
himself because we're still making mistakes andnow they're taking advantage of it something the
Braves couldn't do. You know thatthat's just the frustrating part. And then

(31:45):
him running from second to third intoand out where there was no runner on
first so he could have stayed there, forced to throw from the third basement
across the diamond. I think itwas Nick Castianos's ground ball. It's like,
why run into an out just likemake them throw the ball. There's
whenever you make a fielder to throwa ball, there's always a chance for
a play like Alec Bom to happenwhere he just throws it wide or something.

(32:07):
So that's like the baseball like youthat I just want to see from
this team that you know, wedon't see often enough. And that was
the biggest you know with Boom,that fielding and running obviously that bat you
know he came up with the basisloader and then had a chopper. He
got bailed out by a bare throatat home. You know, he is

(32:29):
a big part of this lineup andthis team. Now, I don't know.
I don't think about Casianos going behindHarper, but maybe real Muto at
this point. But I just don'tsee a lineup change happening because you know,
they've got to to this point withthat lineups the way it is.
I'm fine leaving the lineup the wayit is. I would switch JT personally,

(32:49):
but it's fine. I don't thinkit would make that much of a
difference, but I understand the reason. And Pope can have a great game
tonight. That's why we go togame the game. He could hit match
three homers. Yeah, yeah,and we're seeing kind of like the I
will say, not to be likethe negative Nancy, but I will say,
like, these are the reasons whyI'm not necessarily the biggest boonem Castianos

(33:12):
guy, because like I'm not abig batting, average Warrior fan, Like
those are what those guys are likewhen you don't consistently hit for power or
walk, you have to get thebat on the ball and you have to
hit. So when you're having badat bats and you're not walking and you
don't have the threat of hitting forpower, where it's hard to say that
about Nick when he's setting we setrecords in that stretch, but just over
a consistent time as a Philly hehasn't been that. And then, you

(33:35):
know, these are the stretches withBowem and Nick that I always get concerned
about. And why I kind ofexcuse the Schwerber and the Bryce and even
the Tray downstreaks is because they're stilldoing productive things when they're having downstreaks.
But that's a separate conversation. Butwe'll have plenty of more Phillies conversations to
have, hopefully, hopefully, youknow, hopefully next week we're still talking

(33:57):
about the Phillies. But Nick,thanks so much for coming on. Man,
appreciate you having me on Phills andsix man, let's get it done.
Phil's in six. I, bythe way, it sounds negative.
I still think we're gonna win theseries even if we lose tonight. How
about that for a take, Arizona'snot winning a game in Philadelphia. You
can follow Nick Pecon at underscore Peconon Twitter. Let's take a quick break
so we can get the hyaenas thecollege football card. Here on the other

(34:21):
side, football picks to finish outthe first hour here on the top cover
radio show, right here on theGambling