Tough Cover Show: NBA Draft and Playoffs w/ TrillBroDude, Lots of Phillies/MLB Talk - 05/10/25

TrillBroDude of the You Know Ball Podcast joins Mark Henry Jr. and Sean Barnard on the Tough Cover Show from the jump to talk all things #NBADraft, #Sixers, and the #NBAPlayoffs.

In Hour 2, Mark Henry Jr. and Sean Barnard talk #Phillies, #MLB trade rumors, and more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand a new
and improved Iheard Radio A w D A S and
w D two seven three D Philadelphia is Fox Sports
Radio the Gambler.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
We have leant right down in the language that everybody
here can easily understand.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
We do the comality.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Hello and welcome to the Tough Cover Radio Show.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
It is May tenth, Saturday, and we've got a great
show ahead for you guys in studio for the first
time in a long time.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Feels good.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Don't have a dog, you know, trying to trying to
hop on my lap and interrupt the radio show.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
It's nice, it's nice, feels a little more professional.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
But Sean Bernard on the other side, it's nice to
be here with them on the ones and twoes. You
can follow him on Twitter or xally Everything app it's
all happening.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
On XO as we all know.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
You can follow him on Twitter at Sean Underscore Bernard
one and right off the top of the show, usually,
you know, we wait to get into the guest I
do some you know, dumb fifteen minute monologue about you know,
the Phillies bullpen or something. But we're starting with the
heat right off the top starting with the slop and
we've got my guy, trillbro Dude from the Uno Ballpod.

(01:49):
Go and check it out on Patreon, Go and check
it out on every YouTube, all the all the podcast platforms. Trill,
thanks so much for coming on.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
Man, what's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Happy to be It's always good to have you. We
have some traditions. Usually we have you right on after
the draft, and I'm sure hopefully we're gonna do that again.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
But I think this could be a new tradition. You know,
who knows, Phil The.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sixers might have some lottery years ahead here potentially, so
we might have to have a new pre lottery tradition.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
And here we are two days.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Before one of the bigger lotteries in recent memory, right,
I think Wemby obviously, But besides Wemby, this is the
biggest lottery since who in terms of flat ion.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
So I would say two nineteen Yeah, this probably. I
feel like, if you're ranking the last fifteen years of
prospects going back to late twenty ten, the ones that
I remember people being really hyped up for were like Zion, Wemby,
and then to a lesser extent, you had the Anthony
Davis draft, Obviously, we were very excited about Ben Simmons,

(02:58):
can't forget about that. But this feels like one of
the drafts where it feels very obvious who the top
guy is. It feels like there's a very big gap,
and it feels weird because we really haven't had an
American prospect hyped up quite like Flag since Zion. Yeah,
so hopefully his career goes a little bit better in

(03:19):
terms of, you know, the injury luck and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, And hindsight's twenty twenty, obviously, and it's easy to
look back and be like, well, actually, Flag's better because
look at what happened to Zion. Is there any argument
that Flag just has less risk? And obviously, looking at
how what happened is Zion, it's easy to say that.
But even people at the time, and I was super
in on Zion, so was I've actually been pretty disappointed

(03:45):
by his defense and the pros as opposed to what
it was in college. And part of that's weight, obviously,
but there were people bringing up the weight and the
size and him being a little bit of a tweener
without a shot at that size. I think Flag at
least is a more complete prospect. Zion was more exciting.
You know, we saw him dunk his way through high

(04:06):
school for years, and he was just a household name
for long. I mean not that Flag wasn't, but in
a different way. Zion was all over our all time highlights. Yeah,
all timer. But I think Flag's actually a better pro prospect.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Is that is that fair kind of hindsight?

Speaker 4 (04:22):
I think he's safer. I think I think the the
idea of what you're getting with Cooper Flag is that
even if he doesn't hit his high end outcomes, he's
probably still like what the eighteenth best player in the NBA, Like,
he has this crazy upside if the skills continue to develop.
Because one of the things with Flag is it feels

(04:45):
like he is kind of this perfect, uh, you know,
Jack of all trade style prospect. But I wouldn't really
say right now, at least offensively, that he has an
elite skill. And I think the difference is that with
Zion when he was coming, and I think that Flag,
like I said, Flag certainly as the safer floor, doesn't
feel like he's going to be quite the injury ris

(05:06):
Zion was. Obviously we know now we all thought that
Zion was going to translate. Defensively, he has not in
a way that has been you know, surprising, as you
pointed out. But the fact that Flag feels like he
can play on literally any team and you don't even
have to build around him is the interesting part of
this where you could see him coming in and in

(05:28):
his first few years being a number two on a contender,
and then becoming a number one in a few years.
And I think that he's the kind of guy that
every team is looking for right now, like a four
who's super athletic, that can handle the ball, that can shoot,
that can connective pass, that can create for others, that
also defensively is just an absolute monster, Like I mean,

(05:50):
he's gonna be someone he's basically the archetype of guy
that everyone is looking for in the modern MBA. And
defensively he's probably even better than he is on offense.
And by the way, he was doing this at seventeen
and then turned eighteen in college. So it's one of
those things where it just feels like he's the most
can't miss prospect in terms of floor that we've had

(06:11):
in quite some time. But I would say if I
was projecting for higher end outcomes, I probably would have
felt a little bit better about Zion just because I
knew that he had like more elite traits that could
potentially reach Like I really thought Zion could have been
like one of the thirty or forty best players of
all time at the draft flag. I'm not quite as certain,
but there's certainly a pathway for him to get there.

Speaker 5 (06:34):
Yeah, And it's almost like that's how things played out
this season at Duke. Like the first half of the season,
I don't want to say that he underwhelmed, but he
didn't kind of take those steps as like a self
creator and being that offensive level guy. And then he
really kicked it into gearcum conference play and it looked
like his confidence just continued to grow and grow. So
I know Mark wants to get into the conversation the
best landing spots here. I kind of in principle agree
with the sentiment that it is best for him to

(06:56):
not be looked at as the guy from day one,
that you can have a little bit of, you know,
that like complimentary piece that is doing the little things.
And I think like my biggest takeaway from getting to
actually watch like full games of him at Duke in
a way that we were I didn't really before this,
like he's a winning player. He's going to do like
all the things, the rotations, rebound, defend, the things that

(07:16):
you want in a in like the top prospects that
sometimes you get underwhelmed by. Flag brings it all. So
he's gonna be awesome where every lance and but I
hope it's Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
I think, honestly, I think that Anthony Davis is probably
it's not a one for one comp by any means.
Obviously they're not the same position. Ad was on a
Kentucky team that you know, ended up winning the national title.
Obviously flagging them came a little bit short. But in
terms of what we're talking about, where like you feel
so safe taking this guy because the worst case scenario

(07:47):
is that he's like the one of the best defenders
in the NBA who also can be a number two
on offense, which is exactly what Anthony Davis became.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
Yeah, I'm surprised there's not more Jason Tatum comps for him.
I see a lot of Titum that sometimes like Tatum's
little bit more perimeter centric and like a self creator
in a way that Flag is it. But like the
rebounding ability, and I mean Tatum at this point is
essentially like a pure power forward the way that he
rebounds and does all that. So that's probably my favorite
comp for him, even though they're slightly different too.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, I think that Tatum as a prospect was definitely
a better like shock creator ball handler. Like I remember
at the time thinking that he was like almost like
mellowish as opposed to what he has become in the NBA.
I think that he has become a different player than
I ever expected. I didn't expect him to be good
at those role player things, right that Flag is already

(08:35):
good at. So it's kind of the inverse as a prospect,
But I think in the NBA they could have very
similar style rules. I know the two comps that I
hear the most for Flag are Tatum and more recently
Kawhi Leonard. But I mean, Kawhi is like a one
of one prospect to be so I really don't even
want to compare him to anyone else, but I think

(08:57):
that that just gives you a general idea of what
you're looking at with Flag.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well. Jalen Rose famously compared Rui Hachimura to Young Kawhi Leonard,
not necessarily Kawhi Leonard, but young Kawhi Leonard. Jonathan chiming in,
he said, Cooper Flag seems like he knows what he's
doing all the time, and at that age, I find
that very impressive. Yeah, I totally agree, and Trill knows.
I love to do this, but take short stretches. At
the end of the year. This isn't a short stretch.

(09:20):
But to Sean's point about Flag kind of getting better
throughout the end of the year. The last twenty five games,
he shot forty five percent from three. He averaged twenty
and a half and seven with five assists per game.
And that's not a huge jump, you know, he averaged
a nineteen seven and four, but on thirty eight percent shooting.

(09:41):
I believe in the jumper to be like a legit
forty percent from three. Like, I know, he shot thirty
eight percent, but he really struggled in a couple of
those games early on that I think is kind of
weighing that down.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
But let's do seventeen.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, he was seven in college.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
Like that absolutely wild. I mean, that's that's part.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
I know.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
I don't want to get ahead of myself, but That's
part of the reason why I'm a little bit higher
on Jurmiyah Fears in this draft too. It's just I
think that people don't realize how hard it is to
be seventeen or eighteen years old, like just turned eighteen
and be a like a passable college player, like and
they were like in Flag especially, was like elite by
the end of the year.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, well, surely then you love Jace Richardson.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Of course. I mean obviously, yeah, I like Jason.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I'm Jack And we'll get to the Jace Richardson agenda
later on here. And you know, there is some like
allegedly there is basketball being played at night, and they're
allegedly keep track of the wins, and you know, if
one team gets to four, they move on to the
next round. I'm not really you know that in tune
aware of all all that. You know, I'm fully focused

(10:47):
on the draft. It's a shame that important Like, yeah, exactly,
I saw your tweet. You know, this basketball is really
getting in the way of the important stuff.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
I felt like an old man last night.

Speaker 5 (10:56):
The game went to overtime, that final game, and I
was like, come on, like, yeah, I've never had that
reaction watching it to say, I feel.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
You Yeah, no, I actually feel like this has been
the best second round that we've had since. I mean, look,
as Philly fans, twenty nineteen wasn't great, but just as
a basketball fan, the way that all those series ended,
the multiple seven game series we got the that was
also the famous Celtics Bucks series where the Celtics won
the first game and then they got reverse sweep from there. Yeah,

(11:23):
so there's there is a there is something in the
air in the second round that is really weird where
it feels like everything that we learned in the regular
season can almost be completely thrown out the window because
all of these games have not played out in the
way that we thought that they would.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, and it's interesting because the NBA has been the
sport that that's kind of never been the case. It's
it's always been MLB, you know now that especially with
six wild cards instead of four. You see, the Colorado
Rockies made it in like two thousand and eight when
they won like eighty five games. Arizona made it a
couple of years ago when an eighty four games negative

(12:03):
run differential, like they that happens all the time hockey
you know, eight seeds go go to the finals because
they have a hot goalie. And football even you know,
we've had the Giants, Sea Line Manning won a title,
like and obviously you had their moment. Yeah, the Steelers,
the basketball's had their moments. But it does mostly feel
like the best team wins. And you know, the best

(12:26):
teams usually make it pretty far. They don't lose the
lower seeded teams all that often in a different way
than the other sports. Why is it that that's kind
of shifting and changing and it feels and maybe it's
it's a one year anomaly, but why does it feel
like that's shifting?

Speaker 4 (12:42):
This is the third straight year, Like, I mean, we
had Miami two years ago, we had Dallas last year,
and i mean, look, Dallas was the four to the
five seed. But like, if you look at the teams
that traditionally make the finals, they're almost always in the
top three seeds. The last time we had a team
that wasn't a top three seed that won the championship
was the ninety five Rockets who traded for Clyde Drexler
halfway through the year. It's something that almost never happens.

(13:05):
And even if you want to stretch it to beyond that.
The only two non top two seeds that we had
win the championship were the Golden State Warriors a few
years ago their last title, and then the Milwaukee Bucks
in twenty twenty one. So this is something that is
somewhat of a new phenomenon in terms of teams making
the finals, in terms of teams making these deep runs.
And I think it's like three things really. The first

(13:28):
one is I think that the injury luck and the
pace of the game has made it so that basically
the thing that I've taken from these playoffs and it
hurts me to say it, but I feel like you
cannot build around players who are generally not that available.
Like I think that we love the idea of you know,
obviously we've been dealing with this with Joel Embian for

(13:48):
the last few years. We love the idea of Kawhi
or Zion or Lamela or whoever. But nowadays, in order
to have the opportunity to win a championship, I think
you need to just have as many cracks at it
as possible. So five, six, seven year window where maybe
one year you get the right health luck and you

(14:08):
have the right team and you break through. Because we're
seeing this right now, Like the Cavs went down oh
two because they had bad health luck. We see pretty
much every year these teams that have like we might
see the Pacers go to back to back Eastern Conference
Finals because the fact that they've just had the healthier team.
And I think the pace of play in the modern

(14:29):
game is like, I mean, look at all these stars
in this playoffs, like they're exhausted, they're playing terribly, and
they just don't really have the same level of like
dominance that we expect from c you know, obviously they
still have individual occasions, but like Jokic has been bad
the last two games, Sga has been bad two of

(14:50):
these three games, Tatum has been horrible. Now, part of
this also might be the fact that, like we're past
the Steph Lebron era where we expect consistent dominance from
the best players all the time, and your lower players
that are in you know, maybe four to eight in
your rotation are more important than they've ever been because
we're in this era of where teams are they have

(15:10):
depth and versatility and all that stuff. But I think
that it's a combination of all of these things combined
with just shooting luck and shooting variants. As we've built
into this new era of basketball where teams can get
hot on any given night, it can literally carry a
team like it did the Miami Heat a few years
ago to the NBA Finals, And I think that we're

(15:31):
gonna see that more commonly moving forward, Like as teams
rely more on the three point shot, you're gonna have
games like the Celtics just had in the first two games,
where they can't hit a shot and the other team
takes advantage of the fact that they're just living and
dying by the three and last year they rode that
hot hand all the way to the championship. So it's
literally just kind of luck of the draw. It feels

(15:53):
like based on your injury luck, based on your shooting luck,
and you know, in order to stay in that conversation,
you just need to have guys who were always available
any given year.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
There's three series right now, I'll take Minnesota Golden State
out of it with no steph where the leader is
actually the underdog on the series markets on DraftKings right now, Wow,
the Pacers leading to to one, their plus one twenty five,
the Calves are minus one fifty. The Knicks their plus
one oh five up to h Celtics or minus one

(16:24):
twenty five.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
We'll get into that.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
And then the Nuggets after winning last night plus one
seventy five Thunder and minus two ten. If I were
to tell you which team that is leading their series
right now, could you which is the most likely to
get to the conference finals, the Pacers, the Knicks or
the Nuggets?

Speaker 3 (16:43):
What would what would you say? Denver's cheating?

Speaker 4 (16:46):
Yeah, like it feels because they have a one game
advantage over everyone.

Speaker 5 (16:49):
Now said the next You mean, no, I said Denver.
I think Denver is the clay. You're saying the team
currently ahead to advance, like the Nuggets to beat the
Thunder in the series.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
The question, well, wait, the Pacers are up to one also,
Oh true, that is true, and you could argue that's
you can argue.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
I guess I'm just having a little recency bias because
the game literally just happened last night and it was this,
you know, game that came to to the wire. I
said this after Game one. I thought that the odds
were insane for the Nuggets to win the championship. They
were plus twelve hundred, and I was like, if they
win this round, they're winning the title.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Like I think there's still less one thousand.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yes, that's insane to me because if you look at
the fact that, like, look, I picked the Thunder and
the Warriors to get to the conference finals. I still
think that the Thunder have a good chance to win
this series. But I also think like once you advance
past this round, Minnesota had a really lucky draw with
the Lakers, and I don't think the Lakers were quite
as good as people thought that they were. And then

(17:48):
you combine that with the fact that they just got
great injury luck with Steph on the other side, and
they've they're They're a team that is deep, they have
a lot of versatility, they have a lot of things.
You can throw it guys. But I think the Nuggets
could define take them in a series, and then it
just comes down to whether you think that they're better
than potentially you know, the Knicks, the Calves, the Pacers,
And if you have nicoll A Jokic in the final series,

(18:09):
I feel pretty good about your chances, even with him
not playing up to his normal level that we're used to.
So I just kind of look at those odds, and
I say that's crazy. I guess of the teams, I'm
I'm a little bit higher on the Knicks chances than
I think that most people are. Oh and once again,
maybe it's a little bit of cheating because they're the
only one up to games in their series right now.

(18:30):
But I think the thing that people are losing the
force for the Trees a little bit right now is
that everyone's like, well, the Celtics will shoot better. The
Knicks have not been good offensively for like three of
the four halves in this series. It was really just
the second half of Game one where they were legitimately
good offensively, and that's kind of been their bread and butter.

(18:52):
It's weird that they had to have this rep as
like a tough team. I guess it's based on the
fact that Tibbs is their coach and the Villanova guys
and the past permant stuff, But like, this is a
team that was built on their offense this year and
they have not been built on their defense for a
few years now. So the fact that their defense is
playing at this level against Boston frustrating their ball handlers,
making it so that they kind of, you know, their

(19:14):
team defense has been fantastic, rotating, closing out on shooters
and kind of mucking up Boston's offense. We're one really
good offensive performance away from the Knicks pulling away in
that series. So I think that the Knicks are being
undersold because everyone just assumes, well, Boston's Boston, they'll figure
it out. Like you go down two Zho and you

(19:34):
lose both of those games at home. There's only five
or six series in the history of the NBA, and
you have to go back to the sixties to find
the sixth one in order to realize that that doesn't
really ever happen. And the Calves the Caves feel a
little bit different to me because the Caves literally had
massive injuries in the first two games. Like the Celtics,
injuries are like things that right now, like I don't

(19:58):
really think that, like a Howser seems to be probably
out for the rest of this series. Portscots are yeah,
Porgiicots and Wharfford just have not been the same. Jalen
Brown has not been the same in these playoffs. Like
I would literally say that, like the Cavs looked great
last night. They all came back refresh like, I actually

(20:19):
think that the Celtics are in real trouble, and I
feel like no one's really talking about that.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
Yeah, to jump in on my clear counter here, I
think this defensive stuff from the Knicks is like an
anomaly here that I don't think this is for the series,
and I think it's had far more to do with
the Celtics just missing shots than anything that New York
is doing. And I also think, even if he's not
one hundred percent with talking about Jalen Brown specifically here,
Michale Bridges and Ogana Nuby are not going to outplay
Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown for the rest of the series.

(20:43):
Like I just don't see any world where that happens here,
And like you're right about the offense. From the next perspective,
that's sort of been like the confusing thing about them
all all season is they've been way better offensively than
I expected and way worse defensively than I thought could
be the case here.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
So I don't know.

Speaker 5 (20:57):
I mean that it's definitely not ideal to blow leads
at home, like a twenty point lead the way that
the Celtics have feels like the twenty point lead is
the most dangerous lead in sports right now. But I
do think that there is gonna be something to like
they're not gonna shoot twenty five percent from three, and
I do think Jason Tatum does wake up a little bit,
even though it has been a nightmare start. So I
still think this next team is frauds. I still think
that the first two games they got a lot of

(21:19):
breaks that went their way. Everything down the stretch went right,
and I am talking some of it, at least up
to the shooting variant.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
Jason Tatum the biggest back against the wall merchant in
the NBA. It's like he literally we joke about this
on the podcast because Sam's a Celtics fan. He raises
his own rent like all of his best games are
games that they shouldn't have even been in Yeah, Like like,
oh he had a great Game six or a Game seven.
It's like, yeay, this series should have been over in five.
Like it feels like the Celtics always love to do

(21:48):
this where they kind of get down in a series
and they have to come back. And the only time
they haven't been able to overcome it was the Miami
Heat and the Who and obviously the Warriors a few
years ago, but they were up in that series. But
the thing that I want to point out here is,
like I said, this last playoffs when we played against
the Knicks, they have been the devil Heat team. Like

(22:11):
they've stolen the Miamis deck a little bit. Remember the
end of that game too. The way that they just
consistently come back in games. They never feel like they're
out of it. This is a team that is that
is like absolutely playing above their head. But I don't
think it's I think it's unsustainable for a full playoff

(22:31):
run like it was with the Heat, like where eventually
you just reach a point where you play one of
the greatest players of all time or a great team
and you fall short. But I think for they have
to win two of what the next six games or
whatever it is, five games, I think it's absolutely winnable
that they that they can they can win this series.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
And it's basically even that Celtics are very very slight
favorites there in terms of that. My take on this
is actually, if the Celtics win this game three, I
think they're gonna win the series. And that sounds reductive obviously.
If the next win you're up three. Oh, they're gonna
win the series. But I think this is the game
for the next to win at home. Out of these two,

(23:09):
you have two days off in between. I think there's
a chance that this tibbs. You know, they've played a
gazillion minutes. I feel like we've seen a couple of years.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
In a row.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
They've played really well in round one and last year
was early in round two they played well before they
got hurt. Is there a chance we kind of get
a little bit of that Tibbs wear down here? Because
after this game, it's Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Like, it's only
one day off in between each game.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Game four to six kind of come really really quickly.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Now you could argue maybe that hurts Boston more because
Chris STAPs has a mysterious illness and whatever's going on
with their whole team. But I still think that that
hurts the Knicks more. And I still believe in that
Tom Thibodeau wear down because we've seen it for decades.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
At this point, they could he cut their minutes this
year though they the last two months of the season
and they were not playing big minutes. They have prepared
for this, like I feel like that was kind of
lost in the shuffle. But there was a quote from
Michael Bridges in February where he basically said, like, we
need to go deeper into our bench, And from that
point on, they went deeper into their bench, and they
struggled down the stretch a little bit because of it,
but they were already in playoff shape. They saved themselves

(24:19):
a little bit for the playoffs, and while maybe on
a total minutes played basis, they were still closer to
the higher ends of the league. I think they were
only playing like thirty minutes a game to finish the year,
which is unlike Tibbs, but maybe he's learned from his
past mistakes. I don't know. I think that this team
is I don't know. I think this team will always
be a little bit better in the playoffs than they
are in the regular season, just because of their physicality,

(24:41):
because of the fact that like they will always have
like one of the two best rebounders in the game
on the court pretty much at all times. They'll create
extra possessions and then if you keep a game close,
Jalen Brunson is like nails and clutch time.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
It's unbelievable, and you mentioned that the Cavs face is
obviously a total different situation. But I was on your
stream before the series, and I kind of asked you guys,
because I said, Sean Bernard thought I was crazy. I
was saying for weeks that I thought the Pacers would
be competitive in this series. Obviously that was thinking the
Caves would be healthy. And I still think even if

(25:17):
the Cavs were fully healthy, that this would still be
a competitive series. The Pacers. Here, they are up to one.
They obviously got smoked in Game three. I think they're
going to respond in Game four at home and go
up three to one. Am I crazy for thinking that
the Pacers are still going to win this? They're bigger
underdog than the Knicks.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
I mean, I agreed with you when you said that
on EGA, like I felt like this Pacers team was
being once again. The thing is is that while they're
very different stylistically from a team like the Knicks, it
feels like these teams that have their own unique style
that is like completely different from anyone else, are really
hard to guard in the playoffs, Like they.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Hang around, Like both these teams they just hang around
all game.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
Once again, And if you want to talk about like
the pace stuff, like I know they play at a
really high pace, but like the fact that they can
divvy up their offensive responsibilities instead of running the offense
like the Luka Doncic helio centric, the Joel Embiid helio centric,
the James Harden helio centric.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Of the past.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
I think that's like a thing of the past, Like
I don't think that you can do that anymore. And
I actually don't think it has anything to do with
the play. I literally think it has to do with
the fact that you just wear down on a guy
over the course of a season, over the course of
a playoffs. The Pacers play a really collective style of basketball.
They kind of have the random roulette wheel where you
can have a different star on every night, Like if

(26:36):
Siakam's feeling himself, you can run some offense through Siakam.
If Halliburton's feeling himself, you can run them hard. Like
they they are kind of this this roulette of random
players that can go off at any given night. And
the thing about Haliburton is that, like while he isn't
the greatest one on one player in the league, he
is kind of a superstar in his own right when

(26:57):
it comes to just being like a superstar glue guy almost,
where like you can have him cook and have him
take over the offense, but you also can run actions
for him off the ball, and the defense has to
take into account that he can shoot off movement, but
also he can make those connective passes on the move,
and it is really he's really like his own unique

(27:17):
kind of player. And it's really hard to sum something
really hard to prepare for because we're used to preparing
for these one on one scorers, these playmakers, guys like
Shae Gilders Alexander who's struggling in his series right now,
where in like you have, the defense can get set,
there's a lack of movement and it basically just becomes
one on one basketball, whereas the Pacers you never know
which direction they're going to attack you from. And I

(27:39):
think that that's been really successful for them in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I believe your take is that Haliburton's the best pacer
of all time right over Reggie at this point.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
So my thing was I said that he was on
pace to be definitely. I had a friend freak out
on me because she's an NBA history person and she
was like, Reggie's underrated, and I was like, look, I'm
not taking anything away from Reggie Miller, but like when
you look back at what the accolades that Halliburton's gonna
put up, and like he's on the verge of going

(28:06):
back to the Eastern Conference Finals for the second time,
he's mad he's gonna make I think this will be
his third All NBA team. He's made two All Star teams.
When you look at the accolades at the end of
their career. Now, maybe he doesn't mean quite as much
to the franchise as Reggie did, just because you have
certain guys that mean a ton, But like, look, Alan
Iverson means a ton to the Sixers. I think Joel
Embiid undeniably peaked higher than al Allen Iverson, but it

(28:29):
doesn't mean that people would call him the greatest Sixer,
because you know, there are guys that just mean more
to the franchise sometimes. So I think that people will
look at it emotionally in that regard, but I think
that when it comes down to like actual peak play,
and like, the one thing about Reggie that you can't
take away from is that he arguably revolutionized basketball. Like,

(28:51):
I think that the fact that he is one of
the most important characters in the history of the NBA
can and can't be taken away from him because he
was basically Steph before staph you know, before we figured
out that you can shoot threes. Like if Reggie came
into the NBA twelve years later, oh my god, he
would be you know, like even even better than he
ended up being in his career. So see, I think

(29:14):
Powerburton's on pace to be. But I think that right now,
obviously Reggie's you know, one of the forty fifty best
players of all time.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
So and speaking of greatest sixers of all time, future
greatest sixers of all time, Cooper Flag.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
And real quick, let me throw in.

Speaker 5 (29:28):
Okay, what a commitment to the bit by Tyrese Haliburton
to throw four points right after he goes public with
the story of taking advice from Joel Embiid right there.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
Just that Jason Tatum, by the way, yes, which is great.
Both of those guys are like, we can't get a
break right now, playoff.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Risers, yeah, Joel and Jason Tatum.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
But I put this little tier together for Cooper Flag
in terms of I don't know if this was just
purely like fun or competing pretty quickly, but I put
this together pretty quickly. This warning in terms of what
I'm rooting for for Cooper Flag.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Actually no, and this is not the rooting for.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
This is just straight up the best competitive best places
to land. Yeah, I have a separate one that's actually
a rooting interest because it's just Toronto and Brooklyn in
the F tier, but in the S here I put
the best possible landings for Flag in terms of him
landing somewhere and competing pretty quickly, being San Antonio, Houston,

(30:26):
and Philadelphia, and he'd be the lead guy in Houston
in a way I think pretty quickly, but in a
way that they were just a two seed this year,
I think that would be a pretty incredible landing spot. Obviously,
Wenby's the league Wendy Wemby is the league guy in
San Antonio, so that helps out with Flag not necessarily
needing to be kind of the number one guy right away.

(30:48):
And then obviously I think Jerry McCain and MAXI would
be pretty good running mates with him. There anyone I'm
missing from like the elite tier you think or am
I overrating any of these spots for Flag.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
No, I don't disagree. I think that there's an argument
that A, if those franchises didn't seem to be cursed,
you could probably move them up into the s tire,
but especially the Pelicans, like, like I mean, Flag would
make them amazing. But also what are we getting? What
are we getting out of Zion? Like is Zion ever healthy?
Are they keeping Zion? What is the question there? Like

(31:25):
I think that that I think I agree with you
in terms of if you want to plug Flag into
a playoff team and they're immediately you know, one of
the five or six best teams in their conference, you
got it exactly right. Like, I don't think that there's
really an argument for anyone else because we have all
those question marks about even with the Joel Embiid stuff
with the Sixers, I feel confident in saying that Maxie McCain,

(31:46):
Paul George Grimes Flag would be good enough to be
one of the six or seven best teams in the East.
And then it's obvious with the Spurs and the Rockets
that is the case. The one team that I feel like,
all right, So two things I don't I actually think
the Raptors are, like not should not be that high? Okay,

(32:09):
I don't think the Raptors. I don't think the Raptors are.
The Raptors have built a team that makes literally zero sense.
A flag would probably take them.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
The Scotty Barnes make a lot of sense next to
Flag though.

Speaker 5 (32:21):
And Brandon's that well, I guess kind of with ing,
But like Scotty Barnes, I don't think really makes sense
next to a lot of players in the NBA.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
I think it kind of makes sense next to Flag.
I think it could.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I think because I believe in flags shot enough to
kind of balance that out a little bit. I guess
you could argue you need the ball in Barnes hands
too much, and you want that ball in Flag's hands.
But I think he kind of hides some of the
I'm not a Scotty Barnes guide by anyway, I think
it kind of hides some of the problems.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Is that is that kind of flawed thinking.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
So I guess my thing is that I think that
they would probably make trades if they got flagged, like
they would trade RJ. Barrett, just because then there's one
more guy that you wouldn't want to have the ball,
taking it away from Flag and Barnes and Ingram and whatever.
My thing with the Raptors is like, what are they
even doing? Like I don't really know what the vision

(33:12):
is there, Like I hate to go Bill Simmons mode,
but they literally have just crafted a team of Mimi
Me guys. Like it feels like everyone has their own
personal agendas there. They're all which look fair like I mean, like,
I think that if you're building a team, you should
probably have in mind, like more connective pieces, more connective guys,

(33:33):
and I guess in theory Scottie Barnes and then of
course Cooper Flag could be that. But like I don't know,
like RJ. Barrett and Brandon Ingram, I think that fit
is horrible. I think it's a terrible defensive fit. I
think that those guys are they overlap in skill sets
way too much. And then also if you're having all
of these guys and like, look, I think Flag will
be a good shooter in time. I don't know if
he's going to be a good shooter right away, But

(33:54):
like Scotty Barnes is a non shooter, RJ. Barrett is
a shaky shooter. Brandon Ingram is an unwilling shoot yeah,
and Yaka Purtle is a non shooting five. So like,
what are we doing? Like they're building a team for
like two thousand and two, it feels like like it
doesn't feel like a modern team at all to me.
But Flag, look, Flag is the is the magic pill

(34:15):
for anything. Yeah, top him on any team and he's
gonna solve all the problems. But like I think if
we're going pure fit, like I know that once again,
same thing with LaMelo and the Hornets, But like I
think LaMelo and Brandon Miller and I guess you could
make the same marketment about their like me first guys
or whatever. But like that trio is infinitely more intriguing

(34:36):
to me than anything that the Raptors would. That's fair.
I think that's fair.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
And Bernard said that to me, he said he thought
Charlotte should be higher. I'm just at a point where,
like I just think Charlotte's gonna win twenty games forever,
could probably, And I'm just scared to send anyone good
there because I think they might just be you know,
unsavable as a as an organization. And I think Mellow

(35:00):
is a total loser, even if I think, you know,
a lot of the guys on the Raptors are too.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
But well, if I think with the Raptors is like,
I feel like they're coasting on reputation. I think they've
been the worst front office in the NBA since twenty
twenty one. No, so it's like, if we're giving the
benefit of the doubt to the Raptors because they won
a championship six years ago, it feels like we should
we should also be considering that, Like, I think that
there are multiple front offices that are listed below them

(35:26):
that have been better than definitely than the Raptors in
the last few years.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
You know, I'm a Quickly guy, so I'm I know
he's paid a lot. I'm still holding on to my
Quickly stock. And I think injured all the time, I
think he makes sense next to flag though he's there,
he has hurt all the time.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah, but you know, I mean, look, I like I
liked when they got like I like the fact that
they took a flyer on him. I did not love
that they immediately turned around and they were like, here's
thirty three million dollars a year, Like that was insane.
But I think the thing about the Raptors all of
their moves. They're just like consistently doubling down on bad ideas.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, Ingram did the exact same thing. They made no
sense that they were the Ingram team.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
But they're a bad team that's going to be in
the tax.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, it's it's really weird.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
But what I will say is quickly flag Scottie Peertle.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
I think is like a pretty good four.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
And if you somehow got it two for RJ or
Ingram or I guess you can't trade Ingram.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
I guess because they just paid him, right, So.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, they would trade RJ. Yeah, I do think that
RJ might have some suitors, just because he only makes
like twenty five million dollars a year and he has
two years left on his deal. Like, I don't think
that's an unmovable contract. I think that there are teams
that would be like, look, he's not I think a
little bit of it is empty calories. But I also
think there's a chance that he goes somewhere and he
can actually like be a starter level wing. Maybe I'm

(36:50):
a little bit lower on RJ just because of the defense,
but I think that he is an archetype that people
are always kind of looking for, just like an athletic
wing with some scoring ability and some playmaking ability.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
I've hated r J since, Like, I've never been an
RJ guy.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yeah, I never will say.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
I do think he's maybe gotten better as a shooter, yeah, bronto,
Like he's been.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
A better shooter, and he's like a really good rim
pressure guy now, which once again, I think it requires
a very specific context and fit, and I don't know
what team that is. I've always struggled to find a
team for him now. I before Michael Porter Junior had
his game last night, my idea was, what if they
traded Michael Porter Junior for RJ. Barrett and Oshaia Baji

(37:35):
to the Nuggets Because I feel like playing off Jokic
is kind of the cheat code for these rim pressure
guys that struggle to find a role on other teams.
We've seen it with Aaron Gordon. Christian Brown's came into
the NBA had been really good in that role. But
I don't know. I think that I think that RJ's
a guy that just kind of is going to find
a difficult landing spot for him on a good competitive team.

(37:56):
It feels like he's probably gonna have to continue to
go to these teams like the Raptor that are kind
of in flux in order to figure out what he
is as an NBA player. He's only like twenty four
to twenty five. Like, I wouldn't fully give up on him,
but it's starting to get to a point where it's
like he's coming up on his third contract and we
still don't really even know if he's good at all.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Here's I think you guys talked about this a couple
of weeks ago in the UNO Ball Pod, which everyone
should check out.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Who is the.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
If Adam Silver is rigging this, who is getting Cooper
Flag Utahs?

Speaker 5 (38:29):
I think, oh okay, I mean is fair like if
the the best case scenario from peer basketball and really
everything like Wemby and Cooper Flag is like, oh, you.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
Got Tim dun You got Tim Duncan and David Robinson again,
like like I think I think.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
That they're gonna play together forever.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
Like the Jazz definitely need to be bailed out the
most of all these teams because like I think that
Danny Aingel has been low key terrible as their GM
and doesn't really get any heat because it's Utah, no
one cares.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Uh just got a ten year extension. I like Will Hardy, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
I mean, look, I think Will Hardy might be a
fine coach. It's a talent ultimately is what wins in
the NBA. And we saw that when he had talent,
he was decent. And then they got rid of the
talent and they stink, Like I mean, that's just kind
of how it works. So I don't disagree with you
that I think that that would be a bailout situation.
You Tuss never gotten the number one overall pick in
the draft, which is kind of wild when you think

(39:27):
about it. And also, like you said, like they they
need they need flag more than anyone else in my opinion,
Like I think that of all these teams, you at
least can point to one thing to be optimistic about,
whether it's a young player or like the Nets have
cap space and picks. Most of these like most of
these teams have some a little bit of something to

(39:49):
cling on to. The Jazz, like, I think they've drafted terribly.
I think they they I really think if you broke
down their best prospects, you would be like Walker Kessler,
who's like a fine starting center and Kyle Philipowski, who's
also a big that they got in the second round
last year.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
Else, yeah, I'll tell you, I'll take your Isaiah Collier
stock if you're selling it.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
By the way, I'm still all out of college, absolutely
out on Isaiah.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
Point Guards who can't shoot do not have NBA careers anymore.
It's just not a thing. That's the thing is like,
call youre the idea of Collier. I understand it, and
I got it in the draft a little bit like
I think I had him like nineteen on my board.
But like, namely, a point guard who can't shoot, that
is a starting level point guard view.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Kay, I've been saying this for years, trill.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
This has been my my angry thing about guards not
being able to shoot. And you know me, I'm forgiving
on wings and harsh on guards. But let me run
through just a couple of these. Is there any chance
Adam Silver saving Nika and.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
There have to be some real hardcore back the backroom
deals for that to be the case.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
I think it's the funniest possible. I think if we're
just talking about funny, like like shock reaction hilarious, we're
like laughing on stream. I would say number one for
me is Dallas getting him to be up.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
There to sending our like American export to Canada.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
Yeah. If if we're if we're talking on the rig
the rigging the lottery scale, I would say we probably
have to be top three only for this reason, the
Joel Embiid thing. We're a massive market. We know that
they love to push their massive markets. We have the
Joel Embiid injury with his uh thing where we need

(41:32):
we need a little bit of a bailout where we
don't know if he's gonna play or not. And then
three the we just learned about the fact that the
NBA worked with the ownership on the new stadium deal.
So yeah, oh, they're like, if you want to go
conspiracy mode, there there's a pathway for us being one
of the teams. Now historically when we've gone conspiracy mode

(41:54):
with this stuff, it's like the Knicks with the frozen
envelope Lebron and the Cavs Cago getting Cargo, getting d
Rose jumping up in the lottery. There isn't really anyone
that has like a direct connection to Flag at this
like Boston would be the closest thing they have no
chance to get him Charlotte. So I guess Charlotte because

(42:14):
of you want to say, professional basketball in North Carolina
where they seemingly don't care at all, and if you
get guy dump I think I think part of the
reason they were interested in Zion in twenty twenty three
was because that was the exact thought process was he
went to Duke and if we and Brandon Ingram they
were also interested. He's from North Carolina, Like, I think

(42:36):
that there is that idea there that if they get
someone who's local, because they only care about college basketball there.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
So I went to a hornet game.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Everybody was wearing UNC and Duke here like everybody that
was there, nobody had hornets Caron.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
We got the question from Luke Arcaney here, what amount
of money would you guys pay? So Josh Harris's pockets,
we're speaking out to get the first pick.

Speaker 4 (42:56):
Okay, I was gonna say my money. I'm broken, Yeah,
I'm broke.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
I don't got flag money.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I would put it on a payment plan for myself,
like a couple hundred bucks.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
But uh, I'll but I'll throw a twist on this.

Speaker 5 (43:07):
Josh Harris should be willing to trade Jaden Daniels for
Cooper Flagh.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Dude, we're did you see.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Him up there with Trump and the office? We're a
forgotten son at this point?

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 5 (43:18):
I would argue, I think I would make the legitimate
case Cooper Flag brings more to a franchise than jad
Ultimate Commander.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
I don't know what by the way I mean.

Speaker 4 (43:29):
I mean, football is football, like basketball is still my
number one sport. But I can't lie and say that
I think that, Uh, you know, football in America is
a religion, So I don't know if there's there's much
of an argument there unless Cooper fig literally becomes the
best American player since Larry Bird.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
And even in five years where NFL guys like stay
forever kind of like, yeah, exactly, but Sam real quick
talking about the un ball pod. Sam has a rented
at Tucks that he that he can't return until the
th under or out of the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
We're raising money on playback. I have people donating so
that they can help pay for Sam's talks because I
feel bad at this point.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
But did he realize that he was It was almost
a bit of a Thanas situation where it's like, what
did it cost and it's everything you know the Celtics.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
It's if he takes Thunder out, the Celtics might have
to go too.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
To be clear, he did say that a star wing
was going to drop in the second round of the playoffs.
Now he said it was gonna be Jaalen Williams and
it turned out to be Jason Tatum. So I don't
think that he anticipated his own team flaming out in
the second round potentially as well. But it was really
funny last night. Actually, I don't know if anyone who
listens to the podcast knows that Sam has been a

(44:43):
big Jalen Williams skeptic, which look, he struggled in big games.
His playoff resume has not been great so far. I
understand that Jalen Williams was the best player on the
court last night, and everyone on the Thunder was kind
of letting him down. Outplayed jokicin SGA. They lost that
game and I texted Sam that and he just texted
me back and said, well, he should have scored more
points in overtime, so.

Speaker 5 (45:04):
That should they should have let him let him cook
like dying on the slide with SGA in that overtime
period was kind of insane to me.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
Last two possessions of that game, like regulation Jalen Williams
not getting one of those shots as wild. Yeah, I
mean this is where this is where some of the
ego stuff, some of the locker room stuff, some of
the stuff that's beyond us is is on display here
and I'm sawing. I'm a big believer in the hot
hand theory. I don't think that that is a fake thing.

(45:36):
I think that's a real thing. And I think that
if you're if JDub can't miss on these midies, give
him one shot, give him a chance to seal the game,
and that could potentially end your season because you didn't
trust him in the right spot and you gave the
ball to your m VP and came up short.

Speaker 5 (45:50):
And Nuggets kind of did it too, by the way,
drawing up a fade away three for Nicola Jokic when
he's zero for ten on for three on the end
of the night to close out. Obviously they went to
overtime so it didn't cost him to out. But another
like Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon and Michael Porter junr All
could not miss at that moment and I get it.
He's three time MVPs Nicole Jokic. But Mike, he's criticizing Joki.

(46:11):
You're not allowed to do that.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
You're not allowed to do I heard people talking about
how great of a coach he is after they they
won that game last I was like, this guy literally
never get you want to be like, oh, he's a
better offensive player than step and Lebron. And then the
second that he gets any criticism, everyone cries.

Speaker 5 (46:27):
Mark Jones last night on the broadcast as this is
in the first half, as Jokic has three field goals,
five turnovers and is three for ten from the field,
and his exact quote is when you dressed like him
coming to the arena, you can't do anything wrong on
the floor or something like that.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
But like, like, come on, man, like I hear you.
I get it. Yeah. I actually came away more impressed
with yok.

Speaker 5 (46:49):
No.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
But let's real quick.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
If the Sixers do land let's say the fifth or
sixth pick. Let's say they land, not in that you
know that top four, there's so many interesting kind of
the prospects feel like they don't line up for what
the Sixers need necessarily in this draft. Outside of Flag. Really,
you could argue Kennipple. Yeah, there's definitely some other guys

(47:14):
who fit it. But let's say the top three picks
go off the board, a top four picks go off
the board. Let's say it's Flag, Harper, Con and Ace
in some capacity. Those are the four that are gone.
And let's say that the three guys. You can throw
another name at me if I'm forgetting one. But let's
say the three names that they're looking at are Malawak, VJ,
and Shrey. Who should they pick out of those three?

(47:37):
And who or who am I missing? That should be
in the conversation.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
So I think that you pretty much nailed the guys
that they probably would be considering at that pick. I
think Trey would probably be a no go, just because
of the overlapping skill sets with Maxine and McCain and
the fact that Darryl Moorey's job is on the line
and that if he drafts a guy who's you know,
the worth guard next year.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
The thing the difference between VJ and Trey is that
I think that VJ and Grimes can play in three
guard lineups because of their defense, their size, their strength,
their athleticism. I feel like Trey is just just a guard.
And if you're drafting, and that's the question for me
with Cak Nipple if he ends up being on the
board as well, is do you think he can actually

(48:23):
play the three or is he just a two? Because
if that's the case, then you know, like he might
be best player available. But but long story short, if
this were the way that it broke, I'd probably go
with Malawatch just because I think that the NBA is
moving towards this, like if Joell EENBII does get healthy,
I think that they're moving towards a world where you

(48:43):
can play multiple bigs. Like I think that the way
that teams have played this this playoffs, the last two
playoffs is pretty much all the best teams, the Celtics,
the Thunder, the Cabs, all these teams, even if you
could make their comit the Pacers, like I think at
this point, I would consider Pastiaca like a big, like
he's not as good defensively as he used to be

(49:04):
on the wing. Like I I think at this point
that you could argue they have two biggs as well.
The Knicks play Karl Anthony Towns and Mitchell Robinson together,
like I think that if you were to take Mallawatch,
he's a guy who can help preserve the games when
Embiat doesn't play, and then he also might be able
to potentially play with embiad in double big lineup. So

(49:25):
I think that that would be probably the most interesting
best of both worlds fit. I'm not quite as high
on him as some people. I know some people that
have him like top two or three on their board.
I have him at six right now. I think defensively,
he's gonna translate instantly. I have some questions about the rebounding.
I thought it was a little bit overblown in that
game where he had zero rebounds. He had a lot

(49:46):
of tapouts in that game. And Houston's like a super
physical team. It was his really his first time going
up against that style. He's gonna put on strength, He's
gonna he's gonna get into a strengthy conditioning program in
the NBA. The only thing I'm worried about with Malawatches,
Like me and Mark talked about this a little bit,
like what does the high end outcome look like for him?
Is he just a run and dunk big quote unquote,

(50:09):
Like is he just like a Clint Capella, which is
a fine player to get even with like the fifth
or sixth pick in the draft. Or is he someone
that can develop his offensive skill set to the point
where he's more like a like a surge of Baka
or someone like that, where like he can handle the
ball a little bit, he can shoot, he can you
can run offense through him, and I I I'm not

(50:29):
sure that he can he can reach those heights. I'm
not sure that I buy the shot fully. But he's
still so new to basketball that if you look at
the archetypes of guys that become like stars or superstar
level players, they're generally these guys that are like a
little bit raw coming into the league but only have
been playing basket, like Donovan Mitchell is probably the most

(50:49):
recent example of a guy who came to basketball late.
Joelle obviously was also a guy who came to basketball late.
You know, I know Mark doesn't like him that much,
but this was my argument for Zachi ed going higher
and draft last year, was that he only been playing
basketball for five years. When these guys only played for
five six years, they're still kind of learning the game
a little bit. They can hit really high end outcomes,

(51:10):
in the league, and I'd be interested to see what
he becomes offensively in the NBA, because I definitely believe
in the defense.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah, I think that I think both sides were probably
wrong in some ways in the Eaty thing. The draft
was terrible, so I was too negative. But I do
think that there's like I think we saw the concerns
play out in terms of him being played off at times.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
But still, but if you got Unis Valentudas with the
ninth pick and a bad draft, you're fine with that.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, it's fine. I don't think he's I think he's
more more of a kind of a detriment than Valen
Tunas is on defense. Maybe that's not the case long
term though. But one last guy, I gotta ask about him.
I teased it earlier. He's my guy, Jase Richardson. I
have one guy every year. I've been pretty good like
with my like with my top guys over the last

(51:59):
couple of Obviously, Jared McCain is my number four player
last year, Jase my number four player this year. I
think that there's he's basically Jared McCain. Like it's just
you look at the comp and you kind of put
it in my brain when I started talking about the
last fifteen games for Jase and you said it was
the same way with McCain.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
You match it up.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
It's really similar in terms of how they finished the season.
I just think this is a guy who could fit with,
you know, almost any team that needs any type of
shooting or any type of guard. I think he's going
to I also think there's an untapped potential. He's like
the sixth guy from Michigan State and in the top
Izzo era to get drafted as a freshman. They didn't

(52:39):
play him at all for the first couple of weeks. Like,
I think this guy is going to be a legit
starter in the NBA.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
First first true freshman that he really played big minutes
since like Jared Jackson Junior and Miles Bridges right, Like,
I feel like he has not done that in recent years,
which is why they haven't had a top one and done.
He's generally a guy who try his older players more.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
And obviously you look son of Jason Richardson, you already
have that working in your favor. I think it is
really funny that he is. I don't know if I
talked with you about this that him and Shoulder Sanders
coming out at the same time is very funny because
it's like you would think the son of Jason Richardson
and the son of Dion Sanders would be like crazy
freak athletes.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
No, they're actually just like really good, like smart processing
field players. Yeah, which is really funny for the sons
of these freak athlete types. But Jase is someone who
I think when you I'm very impressed considering the age
and the level of comfortability that he played with as
a freshman in a major conference as a guard, Like,

(53:42):
I think some of the shock creation stuff might have
some untapped potential that he didn't really get to show.
Like you said, very similar to McCain. My com for him,
and it's not a one for one. I don't really
think he has a one for one comp but like,
if you want to go on the more optimistic side
with him, I think that he could have a similar
role to like what we're see with Andrew Nemhard in
the NBA right now, where he is a guy that

(54:04):
like you trust defensively to throw on the other team's
like best guards and then also on offense just has
these random games where he can't miss, and he can
handle the ball. You can run some offense through him.
But he's also just like a release valve for your
star guard. And I think that that's something that I
really want to see. There are a few guys that
really want to see measurements with at the combine, And

(54:24):
I think that the few guys that I'm really interested
with are Ace, Jase, and then also vj. Edgecomb's another
guy that I'm really interested in. And then there are
a few guys that, like I think they might be
like his Fears really six', four because If fears the
six to, four that, Changes LIKE i think that his

(54:46):
ceiling it gets a little bit. Unlocked if he's six,
two it's to like that that's and that's the same
thing With, jace where Like jase is listed at sixty,
three If jase's sixty, three it's a difference between if
he's six to. One i'm not SURE i feel as
great about, it but BUT i think that that that
those are the kind of guys that we're going to
be looking at at this combine for looking at what

(55:07):
their you, know potential can be based on their their.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Measurements it sucks for me because you, KNOW i hate
guards who can't. Shoot but for the first half of
this college, SEASON i Loved jokashunis From. Illinois he shot
thirty four percent for the first twenty three games and
then he shot like twenty five percent from three for
the last whatever ten to fifteen.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Games fears can't, shoot, though that's where we. DISAGREE i
think that he was bad on pull. Ups he shot
twenty percent on pull up. Threes he shot really well
from the mid, range his floater was really. Good he
was a good free throw. Shooter juice off huge dribble
and he's got juice off the, dribble and he shot
thirty seven percent on catch and. Shoots so, LIKE i
don't think he's a complete non. Shooter now he's.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Gotta be plub, limited pretty limited attempts because it's only
four attempts per game with him.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
Shooting the volume of three point shots is not something
that is. Like but, also he was a lead guard
who you know that usually if you're not a great,
shooter you're not encouraged to take that minuets by your.
Coach like his shot, Profile i'm Not i'm not saying
he's gonna reach this level BECAUSE i think That maxi
is a prospect in. Hisself he has an almost identical

(56:14):
shot profile To maxie in terms OF uh three point
volume in, college in terms of three, point in terms
of floater, numbers in terms of free, throws in terms
of all of. That, now the difference Between maxy and
And fears is That fears if you want him to
be probably on the ball a little bit, more and
Then maxi was when he was, younger And maxi became

(56:36):
a weapon off the ball and that's what made him
playable right. Away there's a path Where fears could go,
down where he ends up in that call Year Scoot,
ivy where it's like An ivy's actually become a pretty
good shooter in THE. NBA i think that's something that's
a little bit under. Discussed but there there's a fear With.
Fears there is like there's the shooting questions are. REAL

(56:57):
i just think that the the shot profile projects to
be better than people give it credit for because he
was playing on a team where he was asked to
do some things that he wasn't particularly great, at and
the things that he was good, at like the float ranged,
off the free throw, stuff that is stuff that Usually
lamello had that shot. Profile. Max he had that shot
profile a lot of guys if you're trying to project their,

(57:17):
shot like his shot actually projects to be better Than.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Harper's like if you look at the if you look
at THE i have Some harper. Concerns we'll get into all.
That i'm gonna let you. Go we've held you for
way too long. Already you're far too kind a whole
first hour. Child we'll be tweeting this out after the
show individually as, well but everybody go check Out trill's
playback stream On monday on the main stage right on, playback.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Right six thirty. Pm we're going. Up we're gonna be
streaming all through the draft. Lottery HOPEFULLY i. Survive hopefully
We're i'm talking to you in a few weeks and
we're happy with what happened with The sixers. DRAFT i
WOULD i would really love.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
THAT i am hoping so Hopefully sam doesn't doesn't get
you kicked off. Playback you know he. Can he can
get a little crazy. Sometimes. OBVIOUSLY i had the tweet
where he sent out The oppenheimer meme after the After game,
two AND i, said you thought you created the tux
bomb to take out the. Thunder but you, know it

(58:19):
seems like seems like just like just Like oppenheimer thought
he was going To.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Germany what about?

Speaker 4 (58:26):
It what about a bigger?

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Loss thanks so much for coming on.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Trail everybody go check him out at Till Road dude On,
twitter check out The uno ballpod On patreon and all
the podcast. Platforms we're gonna take a break and on
the other, side take take a whirl around the sports.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Carousel if you.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Can wager on, it we're talking about. It it's the
gamblers call.

Speaker 6 (58:54):
IT i needed some twist And bobby to The Tough
Cover radio right here On Fox sports, again the streaming
live ON I Heart.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
Radio let's talk a Little, Phils. Phils it's been a good. Week.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Obviously it feels like this is the most tough cover
Of phillies week of all time because so they lose
On fridays every every. Week it's as we never talk
about a win coming off of A. Friday this is
like going on years on this show at this. Point
but they had swept The rays going into that took
two or three From, arizona so they were they were

(59:34):
five and two and over the last, week and they've
really improved a lot of their offensive standings and, ops,
walks power all things like. That the rotation has continued
to deal for the most. Part SO i think you
gotta feel a lot better about The phillies right now
than we obviously were two three weeks.

Speaker 5 (59:55):
Ago, yeah And Trey turner for his critical of him
THAT i usually. Am he's been smashing the cover off
the baseball. Lately you've seen the ball really well at
the plate driving. IN i think they've gotten pretty much
production across the. Board Max kepler certainly has settled in
and looking like much more of a dude than he
did for the better part of this the. Season Aaron
nola returned to, himself although didn't look quite as good last.

(01:00:16):
Night but you, know we'll take the overall sample size.
HERE jt real mudo even with a little bit of.
Pop SO i think just about everyone really own this
team is moving in the right direction. Currently i've Been
it is finally like a this is what a good
baseball team looks like type of week from The, phillies
AND i think we just kind of needed that from mentality,
standpoint AND i think the team did, too to be perfectly.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Honest, yeah, No i'm right there with.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
YOU I i think that The phillies will bounce back.
Today Jesus soizardo on the. MOUND i feel pretty good
and by the, way breaking news to the people out
there who have wondered Why i've felt discombobulated over the
last five. Minutes back in The Action, Network, hey, hey
there we back. In by the, way no free. Ads
if you are out there looking for a way to tracking.

(01:00:58):
Bats Action, network not free ad is the WAY i
track them. All you can follow me On Action network on.
There it's on My twitter in the bio to just
to get an Easier sometimes people complain THAT i don't
put the picks out until too, late LIKE i haven't
tweeted them out. Yet i'll quot tweet this show and
tweet them. Out but if you ever want to see
them right, AWAY i put them up On Action network

(01:01:19):
as soon as soon AS i place.

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):
Them so probably the most transparent GAMBLER i, Know Marketry
junior shout out to.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
You, yeah that's. NICE i.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
AGREE i do think a lot of people out there
no names certainly only talk about their, wins AND i,
think if, ANYTHING i probably talk too much about my
losses and complain about the losses instead of enjoying the.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Wins so, Like i'll say, this and you know not
to toot my own horn too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Too i'm twenty three to twelve and one at plus
twenty three and a half units over the last ten,
days but that number should be twenty four and twelve
at plus twenty five and a half. Units because The
dodgers were up eight to. FOUR i Have dodgers first
five last. NIGHT i also had them full game and
they ended up, winning so and it was plus, money
SO i made money on The dodgers overall last.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Night. Eight they're up eight to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Four guy on first and, second two, outs they walk
a guy grand slam next two things eight eight tie.
GAME i get a push on first five where they
were up four runs going into the. Inning absolutely, brutal
brutal stuff in terms of a beat last. Night But
i've been red, hot and by the, WAY i never

(01:02:25):
gave out the units on. Those best bet of the
day is That Minnesota Golden state over at two hundred
and a.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Half you can get it at two.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Hundred that's a four unit, play three unit play On
celtics team total over one oh five and a, half
and let's just all rip the band aid. Off let's
let's rip the gambling band aid. Off, here i have
two baseball bets on the board.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
And i'm just gonna keep doing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
This vegas is really not respecting The dodgers at all,
lately and they've been close to minus one ten or plus,
money which is very.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Surprising by the. Way, YEAH i don't get.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
It and it's only been on the, road, really but
only it's even money year Against. Arizona this one makes
a little more. Sense corbyn burns on the. Mound, obviously
a Stud dustin may pretty good starter as well for The.
Dodgers i'll take The dodgers over The diamondbacks even with
a slightly worse starter on the mound at minus one.
TEN i actually got it at plus one, hundred so
that line has actually jumped a little bit towards The.

(01:03:21):
Dodgers But i'll tell you, this if you can get
a chance to get The dodgers anywhere below minus one
twenty five and there isn't an avalanche of a gap
between the pitching matchup between them and the other, team,
which by the, way.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Most of the time there's not going to be because
they have a really good pitching.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Stuff so this would only be if they had like
an injury and had a spot starter going against an
ace for another. Team MAYBE i wouldn't want to touch
them if it was that, Scenario BUT i Think i'm
just gonna make it a. Rule if The dodgers are
under minus one, Thirty i'll be betting The. Dodgers And
that's Where i'm at with. It And i've just seen
too many games like they were down multiple runs last
night for, nothing or four to one go up eight.

(01:03:59):
Four it Is they're in a different way than any
other team in. Baseball they can just turn the game
over in one. Inning and we obviously know why With
shohe And mooki And freeman and Will smith And massi
and To oscar and, yeah they have just an absolutely loaded.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Lineup we all know. That the other bet That i'm
going with.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
TONIGHT a lot of TIME i get scared of like
high totals around nine and a, half ten and a.
Half i've tried to tried to get away from. That
i've tried to be less scared of. It and IF
i think the game's gonna go, over it's usually not
gonna go over eight and a half by scoring nine
or ten, rounds it's usually gonna be you, know. Thirteen,
yeah it's usually just more likely than not gonna be
eleven plus then it is exactly nine or. Ten SO

(01:04:41):
i need to get over, that just. Mathematically But O's
Angels Orioles Angels, Tonight orioles one of the most disappointing
teams in. Sports they're fourteen and twenty Three Kyle, gibson
who we, know, well it's, yeah fourteen POINT zho NINE
era taking the mount tonight And COCONOWITZ i know If
i'm saying that right for The Angels ko c H

(01:05:04):
a N o W i C, zanowitz maybe Kochanowits cocaos
dark as, WELL i don't. Know but he's got a
five seven NINE era one and five. Record and The
orioles have Seen coconoa's Coach andoas multiple times and they've
hit him. Well and The angels have Seen gibson plenty of.
Times they've hit him well if you look at THE bvp,

(01:05:24):
numbers so he does. Exactly SO i really like the
over there at over nine and a half In Orioles
angels that goes off at nine to thirty eight. Tonight
and then if we're switching to the the ice last,
night what DID i do on the ice last? NIGHT i, Went,
OH i. DIDN'T i didn't bet any the hockey. Gives
So i'm fourteen and nine at plus thirteen units on the.

(01:05:47):
Ice in THE nhl, playoffs we've been we've been pretty
good at finding plus money, spots finding overs that have
been pretty. Consistent, tonight going with a plus money, spot
going with plus two o five on The.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Capitals capitals are winning this. Game it's one to one
in the.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
SERIES i think The capitals are the better team Than.
Carolina so give Me washington. Now of COURSE i didn't
watch game one where they lost to. ONE i Watched
game two where they won three to. One Gimme washington.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
Plus two o?

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
Five are you kidding? Me when they lost it was
two to. ONE i like This washington.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Team people don't believe in them because they weren't supposed
to be good before the, year but they were the
one seed and people still don't believe in.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
THEM i believe In.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Washington they get it. Done plus two oh five Cham, Bernard, wow.

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
The Cleveland cavaliders of. Hockey maybe is that a Fitting.
Capitals yeah, YEAH i guess so they had. THAT i
think they did win that one. Title And ovechkin is
kind of like if ever. Left yeah, yeah but uh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Yeah and then the other hockey GAME i didn't bet
BECAUSE i ACTUALLY i liked it this morning and then
it's it's gotten juiced. Up it was at like minus
one oh. Five now it is at minus one. THIRTY
i do like The oilers. Tonight they're up two oh
Against vegas going back home To. Edmonton they're in the knicks.
Spot they went up two oho In. Vegas now they're
on back. Home But, EDMONTON i do think is the
better team Than, vegas And vegas is like a home

(01:07:05):
home merchant a little bit, There SO i, like you know,
What i'm probably gonna Add edmonton to the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Card i'll add them into the to the. Car so
there there we.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Go oilers And oilers And, capitals both one unit. Plays
those are the bets for the. Day but, SORRY i
went on a tangent, there went on a bit of a.
Tangent let's bring it back to the. Pills back to the,
pills AND i have a top ten here THAT i
put together BECAUSE i THINK i did this a couple
of weeks, AGO i mentioned a couple of trade names

(01:07:33):
to watch out. For but the reason that this kind
of kicked into high gear for me is Because Ratheyel
devers has been involved in some some weird back and forth.

Speaker 5 (01:07:43):
There, yeah CAN i CAN i understand the story? Correctly
so he was just signed there this summer, Correct, yeah
and was under the expectation he would be A.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
DH i believe.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
No SO i would say when he signed the contract
he thought he'd be the third baseman because they Signed bregman.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
AFTER i remember when that happened a little, bit and
he was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Upset about that kind of and they asked him if
he would BE dh and he, said, NO i play third.
Base and then he HAS dhd and they made Him
the backstory year is that he's been really bad at.
Third i'm someone that doesn't necessarily care about that as
much when you're as good at the plate As devor.
SAYS i would let him be bad at third if
he wants to be bad at. Third, personally you know

(01:08:27):
HOW i feel about. Defense i'm a little less stringent
than most on.

Speaker 5 (01:08:30):
It BUT.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
I i think he was out on them Signing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Bregman he was out on dhing and then now that
he's probably adjusted to, dhing they now want him to
go play first.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Base which he. Should you should say.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Yes BUT i do understand where he's, like you signed
me to be this third baseman for all this, money
and there's twenty five teams in baseball that'd be begging
for me to be their third. Baseman it's annoying that
you're kind of shifting me all around the, FIELD i
guess would be kind of HOW i.

Speaker 5 (01:09:01):
Look At, okay THAT'S i feel LIKE i understand it
a little bit better. Now i've kind of only filed
this From afar and seen all this stuff kind of
go down this. Week BUT i SAW i Believe John
boy was talking about. That they believe that he will
be traded, Now so you you are labeling this a
Clean phillies.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Fit, YEAH i mean there's there's also, some, uh there's
some thought that there might be a language barrier a
little bit with some of his. Answers AND i don't
know if that's true or. NOT i don't know too
much about, that but that he might just be more
direct about certain.

Speaker 5 (01:09:32):
THINGS i don't, know BUT i will say shot my,
Guy Zach thompson And DraftKings said his, wife who's fluent In,
spanish confirmed that the translations from what she read or
what she heard was spot on to what's Being oh,
yeah kind of spun around right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Now, NO i did see there were people out there
skeptical about.

Speaker 5 (01:09:50):
Translation, yeah and they're also, like there's obviously slightly different
dialects Of spanish and sometimes there is not like the
direct one to one translation when you go across languages right.
There So i'm sure there's some aspects of that are
somewhat of a. Factor BUT i wouldn't tell you that
he's a, perfect clean fit that's exactly what we, need

(01:10:10):
that you, know won't make bad plays in the.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Field he's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Not he's a third baseman who's not very good at third.
Base we don't have A dh spot available for. Him,
yeah he's not a right handed. Bat he's a left handed.
Bat but WHAT i would tell you is that over
the last four years he's been he's been one of
the most consistent players in.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Baseball between eight fifty.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
One and eight NINETY, ops he had a one thirty
FOUR ops plus a one forty ONE ops plus a
one twenty SIX ops plus a one forty ops plus
and then this year when he leads the league in
strikeouts and has been and started the year off first
two three weeks like one for like his first forty
or something. Crazy he's now all the way back up

(01:10:54):
to an eight twenty ops while also leading the league in.
Walks he has six homers already on pace for twenty
five and over the last four years he's hit thirty,
eight twenty, seven thirty, three and twenty. Eight even before
that he hit thirty two and twenty, nineteen he had
eleven and fifty seven and twenty, twenty which means he
probably would have hit you, know roughly thirty or close

(01:11:14):
to thirty home runs that year in a full. Season
this is the guy who's gonna give you thirty. Homers
he's gonna give you mid eight hundred ops, Bat he's
gonna walk a. Ton i'm willing to give up some
of those side. Things well he's not a right handed.
Bat oh, well, well he's not a good in the.
Field oh, well to. Me my thing about this, team

(01:11:37):
AND i was just arguing with About Luca Textan luke
a little, bit going back and forth on some of
these names That i'm gonna give. OUT i just ALL
i care right now about his. Power, yeah give me
another power. Back give me someone who can flip the.
Game give me someone who can turn a one nothing
game into a four nothing. Game give me someone who
can turn a four to one game into a four

(01:11:57):
to three game or four four. GAME i just THEY
i think we're so stuck in the past with this
team that we. Think, oh LIKE i SAW i don't
even know who it. Was i'm not gonna say who it,
was BUT i saw someone being. Like people are so
mad At Trey turner for not hitting for, power but
don't they understand over the last couple of, years we've

(01:12:18):
been begging for non all or nothing, bats and we've
been begging for more contact and begging YadA ya. YadA that's.
Fine and all those teams have. Power this team. Doesn't,
yeah those teams are top five to top ten in home.
Runs this teams.

Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
Not we're in the.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Middle we're.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Fifteenth now that's because we were like twenty fifth Last
saturday when we talked about. It we've hit some over
the last, week, sure but they need, homers they need.

Speaker 5 (01:12:40):
Power SO i know your clearance of this would would
be the more power the, better and obviously they're but,
like think about this, logistically it feels Like Kyle schwarbert
is the biggest guy that would be potentially impacted by
this when we bring in THE dh factor and then
the money factor as far as him being a free
agent this upcoming, summer do you think bring In devers
would be the type of move that kind of squeezed
it Out.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
SHWOARBER i personally Think schwarber's, here no matter. What dombrowski called,
him the greatest clubhouse guy he's ever been. Around and
it's thirty years of base to forty years of. Baseball, yeah, no, no,
NO i, Know And i've heard other people kind of
float what you're, saying, like, oh, well this would be
A schwarber. REPLACEMENT i think even in That John boy,
clip maybe the one guy says that to, ME i

(01:13:22):
don't look at those two is as uh, Overlap LIKE
i think you just Played devers at third and, say,
well we're not Gonna we're already like average at it
in the field, now and we put up with being
terrible at it for years so for much for much
less production Than devers would give.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
You So i'm in on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
IT i don't care about the. Defense you, look you,
know including the. Defense over the last six, years he's
got twenty two and a half warriors every four point
three per, season thirty four homers per, season one hundred
and nine RBIs per. Season, YEAH i mean this is
over the last six, years has an eight to seventy three.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Ohps this is just the.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Guy he's won a, Title he's played in a ton
of big. Games it's been great in the. PLAYOFFS i
Think devers is everything that you kind of you push
the chips in. For that's the number one guy for. Me,
now this this kind of, deadline AND i don't think
it's gonna. HAPPEN i think he's probably A. Cub IF
i had to, GUESS i think he'll be on The.

(01:14:22):
Cubs but, uh some other, names and we talked About
Brent rooker last week or two weeks. Ago that's the
concern is that The a's are like competitive and might
not deal their. Guys Lawrence butler also goes along with.
That Lawrence butler. INSANE i don't know how aware Of
Lawrence butler you. Are Sean bernard's the swaggiest player in.

(01:14:45):
Baseball Oh, like if you look, up look Up Lawrence
butler if you want to, like the guy has area
even just like His baseball reference. Page the guy has,
insane insane levels of aur and he's, LIKE i think
he could be a legitimate like thirty thirty. Guy he

(01:15:07):
had twenty two homers eighteen steals in one hundred and
twenty five games last. Year already six, homers already six.
Steals he's dipped a little bit this year in terms of.
Ops But Lawrence butler's a guy WHO i THINK i
would buy stock in right.

Speaker 4 (01:15:21):
NOW i love that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
Kid we talked About Nolan. AERNATO i don't want to
talk too much more about. IT i feel like we've
talked about it for. Years let's talk about some new.
Names so the other names THAT i kind of found going.
Around George springer was a name that you, know most
of us are familiar.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
With he's In.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Toronto it's, funny he's actually been In toronto like a
long time at this. Point he's been In toronto for six,
years where almost as long as he was In. Houston
BECAUSE i associate him so much with That astros, team
it's been In toronto just as long. Almost but he
kind of dipped over the last couple of years in
twenty twenty really. Good his first two years In toronto

(01:15:57):
twenty twenty one and twenty twenty, two twenty twenty three
and two twenty, four he went seven thirty two ops
and six seventy four. Ops really really dipped with the,
bat even still hit nineteen homers and twenty one homers,
though so there's still some semblance of power, There and
even while he struggled at the plate those, years he
is always going to be an, absolute you, know an

(01:16:18):
elite fielding outfielder who has flexibility to play at multiple.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Positions.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
There he's probably more of a corner more of a
corner guy at this point of his. Career But i'm
actually curious to see how many games he's played at.
Center but he's hitting for a nine hundred ops this.
Year he already has nine. Homers he kinda has really
turned back the, clock AND i can't Imagine toronto would
have too much of a problem getting rid of him

(01:16:44):
at his, age especially with them kind of. Struggling he
might be a name who brings some kind of, winning brings.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
A hot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Bat right, now at least he's played ten games at,
center this. YEAR i guess twenty one games in, right
so you can mix and match there a little that
anything On.

Speaker 5 (01:17:01):
Springer, yeah it doesn't like crazy fire me, up BUT
i certainly wouldn't say no to it or be against it,
there AND i KNOW i will also Had speaking Of
toronto and struggling our Boy Jeff hoffman this, WEEK i
believe three blown saves in his past.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
Experiences, YEAH i didn't know. That that's a.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
SHAME i don't want. That i'm rooting For Jeff. Hoffman,
YEAH i am as, well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
DON'T i don't want.

Speaker 5 (01:17:19):
That AND i think this is unfortunately going to be
one of those that we're going to have to bookmark
like two years from now to see and how his
arm is BECAUSE i think the medicals are the biggest
thing that was like a legitimate concern. There i'm still
rooting For jeff, too BUT i did think that was worth.
MENTIONING i can't even do the thing he does with
his with the kids and something like. That it's the
thing kids used to do it in. SCHOOL i really like.

(01:17:39):
That it's kids that you have like the loose, joints
like you can kind of like hear the.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
CLICK i can't do. It it kind of freaks me.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Out But Byron buxton is a name that my Buddy Pat,
moran WHO i SAW i was listening in, earlier has
been obsessed with for. Years And Byron buxton is a
guy who just doesn't doesn't play a lot of. Baseball
he just gets hurt so often since twenty. Eighteen i'll
listen to the amount of games he's, played by the,
way for people out there who don't, know they play

(01:18:06):
one hundred and sixty two games to twenty, eight eighty,
seven thirty, nine sixty, one ninety, two eighty, five one oh.
Two he has played all the games so far this.
Year he can't stay, healthy but, man when he's out,
there he's an elite, fielder and he's pretty elite at
to play as. Well like for most of the time
you look at over since twenty, Nineteen let's let's take

(01:18:28):
that sample size over the last six. Years isn't eight
forty six, ops seventeen or sixteen homers per? Year, now
if you made that average per one hundred and sixty two,
games that'd be thirty seven homers per, year which shows
you how many games he's. Played But buxton's a guy
who maybe you don't have to trade all that much.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
For let me get a look at the contract, here.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Because of all the injury factors in minnesota's really taking a.
Dip he's only on their contract for uh, OH i
guess including this year for four more, years so three
more years after this at about fifteen million per. Year
that's not that, bad but it is maybe a little

(01:19:12):
bit too much of a risk to. Take but that's
kind of like a swing for the. Fence maybe this
guy will stay healthy with. US a type thing THERE
i NAMED i THINK i mentioned last, week But i'm
more and more obsessed with it every TIME i kind
of look into. It Is Orge, solaire WHO i think
is going to get. Traded The angels are fifteen to twenty.
Two there's no reason for him to be. There he's

(01:19:34):
under contract through next. Year this is a guy who
in twenty twenty three hit thirty six home. Runs twenty
nineteen he hit forty. Eight twenty twenty, one he hit twenty.
Seven last year he hit twenty. ONE i don't know
WHY i went out of order, there but he's a
guy who just if we're saying the problem is strictly
power or A soilaire's like one of the obvious answers to.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
Me anything on Bucks in Or solaire.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
THERE i Like.

Speaker 5 (01:19:57):
Selai this has been probably out of since we got
through the top names After, ROOKER i would say this
has been the one that has fired me up the.
Most the dude hit forty eight home runs in a season,
before he's been A World SERIES, mvp AND i Like
celeai a lot as a.

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
Player that's interesting to. Me And Mike trout heard.

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):
Again by the, way, Right, yeah, yeah SO i The
angels have kind of been a team in limbo for
really the past. Decade he does feel like a guy
that could get, moved and that is a. GUY i
think this is the name That i'm the most in,
on outside of the top.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
Guys that's, Fair, No i'm Super i'm super in on
So lair a name that this is an interesting. One
it's a by Low Spencer steer twenty twenty. Three Spencer.
STEER i thought this guy was arriving onto the, scene you,
know for the next x amount of years to be you,
know one of the elite.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
Outfielders or he plays every position he has.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Taken he's played a game in THE mlb at first,
base second, base third, base, shortstop left, field, centerfield and right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Field, wow he has taken with merryfield out. Here. Yeah Apps.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Yeah twenty thirty three eight twenty, ops twenty three, homers eighty,
Six RBIs had sixty eight, walks really really good walk
rate twenty twenty, four drop back seven to twenty one,
ops so drop back to about an AVERAGE. Ops still
hit twenty, homers still at ninety. Two RBIs still walked
seventy two.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
Times.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
Now he has fallen off the face of the earth this,
year five point fifty, ops hitting one eighty, nine thirty
three games in negative. WAR i think he had an
injury coming into the. Year this would be like a
week and fix him a little bit of a marsh type.
Trade he's interesting to me because, man that twenty twenty

(01:21:41):
three is so so, good and the power combined with
the eye and seeing a lot of, pitches and the
utility of him being able to play anywhere on the
field and move guys. Around he's an interesting. Piece he's
also still on a rookie. Deal it's just do you
believe in the last two years What it's just what

(01:22:04):
do you think he? Is AND i still it's hard
for me to give up that twenty twenty three. VERSION
i Loved Spencer steer the first year he came, up
so obviously not gonna get the casuals, going and neither
is this your stat, line but there's a.

Speaker 5 (01:22:16):
Name, YEAH i don't have a ton on him, specifically
but to kind of speak about like the arch type
of player you speaking, about LIKE i was in on
the wit meryfield ideas of. Concept obviously he did not
live up to what he was supposed to, be but
that's really appealing to me to have a guy that
can be as sort of a jack of all trades
to round out you, know the position in the field
and the lineup, Here so that makes a ton of
sense to target. That it, does like the numbers are

(01:22:37):
ugly this. Year there's no way to to sugarcoat that
ninety one slugging it like not good stuff across the.
Board but if it is a by low and see
what he can bring to the, Table i'm not gonna
shoot it. Down so not a guy That i'm super familiar,
with but not closing the door. Either this is one
that's probably.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Unlikely Brian reynolds From pittsburgh let me, get let me
get his. Contract also a, Mess pittsburgh an absolute, mess
just fired their coach eight, years one hundred and sixty
one hundred and six. Million but we're two years into,
that so that's probably really like six years seventy eight
million at this. Point And i'm Sure pittsburgh will probably

(01:23:16):
pick up the table on this, year so you probably
have like a five, year sixty five million dollar. DEAL
i would absolutely Give Brian reynolds five or sixty five
even with how bad he's been this, year and that's
kind of the. Deal you look at over his, career
he's an eight TWELVE ops hitter over his, career averages
about twenty five homers a. Year literally over the last

(01:23:37):
four years twenty four to twenty, seven twenty four and
twenty four home. Runs he's been one of the more
consistent players in baseball over the last four. Years this
year really dropped off down to a six thirty THREE.
Ops he's the only like professional hitter in that. Lineup,
Yeah cutchin and, fam but there's there's not a lot
surrounding him in that. LINEUP i think it might be
a good opportunity to buy. Low pittsburgh doesn't want to

(01:23:59):
pay guy for the next five years for sixty five million.
Dollars they probably want to get. Younger he is thirty years.
OLD i THINK i think he makes a, ton a
ton of sense for The. Phillies he's also switch. Hitter,
yeah the negative point seven war is. Ugly gotta acknowledge
that a little. Bit but it's been terrible this.

Speaker 5 (01:24:20):
Here, YEAH i mean the larger body of work in
his own big career certainly speaks for. Himself and he's
thirty years. Old he's not ancient by any. Means it
is like straight up embarrassing to. Me The, Pirates like
when you have a guy Like Paul skins to build
around and be like a face of the franchise in
such a clear, way and you're as embarrassing as they
have been this, season it's pretty disgustic as an. Organization
SO i wouldn't mind freeing this, guy giving him a.

(01:24:41):
Chance it does just feel like like it's a miserable,
environment a miserable attitude as a, team and Like pittsburgh
is probably one of the least fun watches from a
sports team across all sports right. Now so if this
can get him in a better headspace and be back to.
Performing i'm not against. IT i could be talking To
Brian reynolds for.

Speaker 4 (01:24:57):
Sure for what it's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
Worth the war, factors he's it seems like he's very
mid in the. Outfield it's like he's not a negative
or a. Positive so it seems like the wars just
because he's been terrible at to. Play AND i believe
In reynolds at the. PLATE i, MEAN i think we've
seen enough over the years that he's going to get
back to being. Himself and like you, said he's not,
Ancient like there's no reason for this really. Right the
last name on the, list and it's one that comes with.

(01:25:21):
Complications it's one that you, know you have to start
talking About bryce maybe playing the. Outfield if there's anyone
WHO i Think bryce would consider moving back to the
outfield for it's the guy who he moved to first
base to. Replace and it's a guy who's been mashing
lately for The Milwaukee brewers who have been really. Disappointing

(01:25:42):
and his name Is Reys, hoskins who hasn't eight h
five ops this. Year even last year coming off of
a massive injury where he had a down, season he
had a seven to twenty two ops where he had
twenty six home. Runs he's still had that, power still hits.
Lefties he dead have a minus hive point two war last,
year but he's not obviously there to.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
Field he would be extremely average at.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
First, yeah there's even an argument maybe you stick him
at the h and you make schwarb play, left and
maybe there's an argument there that you're kind of hurt In.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Kepler Maybe kepler starts taking time in center. Field who.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
KNOWS i think that there's a lot of arguments about
it that make it not, clear not a clear, fit
but the power that he brings and the fact that
he's a right handed. BAT i think that you don't
have to move, up move around too much to make
it make sense against, lefties Because kepler doesn't work against.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
Lefties so you were either going.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
To have to Put schwerver in left Or reese at.
First in this, SCENARIO i think it's Probably schwarver and,
left and you go schwarverin, Left nick and, Right bryce at,
first RECENT dh And johann and, center AND i don't
have a problem with.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
That, YEAH i, MEAN i love He he's the.

Speaker 5 (01:26:56):
Man we all miss him With, ATON i do think
we have to, acknowledge like whenever guys, leave we remember
the best version of them and kind of, forget Like
reese is one of the streakiest hitters that we'll, see
and there will be stretches where he can carry an
offense and his.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
Money you, know, me the streaky thing doesn't bother me
as much as it bothers most.

Speaker 5 (01:27:12):
People it bothers me in the sense of when you
have a lot Like castianis is another guy who you,
know when he's ripping the cover off the, ball he's,
unbelievable and then there's stretches where he looks lost to the.
Plate SO i do think you have to be. Careful
it's nice That reese's right handed. Bat he's also like
beyond like not a good, Defensively he's a really bad
defensive first baseman.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
There and like got. AROUND i don't necessarily agree with.
That you don't, think, no he's below, Average, yeah but
it's not like he's NOT.

Speaker 4 (01:27:38):
Jacb.

Speaker 3 (01:27:39):
Plumby, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:27:40):
But, YEAH i, MEAN i certainly for the, sentiment AND
i do think there is a little bit of baseball
sense that it. MAKES i would not shut down the
door For Reese hoskins returning, whatsoever you can sign me
up for. It BUT i do, think like we, do
got to remember the strings that come attached a little.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
BIT i, think if, ANYTHING i actually think he gets
underrated from his time, here because this is the guy
you just go through THE ops plus one twenty five
one to eleven one thirty eight, one twenty, nine twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:28:06):
Three as A.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Philly this is a guy who as A philly had
a CAREER ops plus or a CAREER ops of eight
twenty six or, No i'm, sorry eight forty six one
twenty five ops. Plus he had one hundred and forty
eight home runs in six. YEARS i think people are
far too negative On, reese AND i think he's actually,

(01:28:28):
remembered not, fondly AND i think he's exactly what they're,
missing and to be honest that people won't want to hear,
THIS i think he's been what they've been missing for three.
YEARS i think that power bat in the middle of
the lineup to kind of break up the lefties and
a guy who can hit in the top four of
the lineup because he does walk so.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
Much this is the guy who led the league in
walks in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
Saw the most pitches in baseball in twenty twenty two
when when we went to The World. Series SO i
Just i'm always A i've been a rece apologist his entire.
CAREER i think you, know there's a perfect landing spot
For reese out there at this. Deadline it's probably not The.
PHILLIES i don't think we've seen the last of that

(01:29:12):
version Of, reese AND i feel like we've seen him
over these last couple of weeks kind of picking up steam.

Speaker 5 (01:29:17):
Again, yeah MAYBE i am being too negative on, him
BUT i also want to swing. It what do you
think the legitimate chances Of bryce returning to the outfield are?

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
No Lo, WELL i don't think this is.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
HAPPENING i was just, saying if there was someone you
could convince them to do it, for it probably would
be Re, Sure, LIKE i do think that they were close,
friends AND.

Speaker 3 (01:29:35):
I Think bryce likes being in the.

Speaker 5 (01:29:36):
Action YEAH i did, Too and to his, credit he's
turned himself in a pretty solid first baseman picked it
up a lot quicker than a lot of guys, would
no doubt about.

Speaker 2 (01:29:44):
IT a couple of Names i'll just throw out there
who didn't make the List Brendan donovan really good player
For Saint, louis like a three hundred. HITTER i don't
know if that's WHAT i, Want, LIKE i JUST i
want a power. Guy he's gonna hit like ten fifteen.
Homers good, bat but not for. ME i Know Jack
fritz really wants. Them Cedric mullins oriole center. FIELDER i
Know luke really wants. Him good, player not enough power

(01:30:06):
for me. Personally Luis, robert that's just like a fell
off a cliff, left he's the. Cliff he's still. Falling,
yeah it's it's.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
UGLY i don't know what to even.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
Say he was so, Talented, yeah he was so, talented
and he's a freak, athlete and like it's just hard
for me to believe that if he wasn't on a
good team that he wouldn't figure it out.

Speaker 3 (01:30:32):
Again so maybe you take a. CHANCE i don't, know
he's HE'S i don't even know what to.

Speaker 5 (01:30:37):
Say but we were talking about that being like a
blockbuster type, trade like a huge, trade like when we
when he first, popped when he was obviously playing incredibly.
Well so it's a good thing that that was not
the all in move by This phillies team and that
that version of it did not show.

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
Up, yeah, yeah who, Knows maybe they make that move
and he figures it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
OUT i mean last year he was being horrible and
we were still kind of talking about him as a
blockbuster move because the pat that talent is so is
so obvious there with.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
Him and then the last one is. Interesting Anthony.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
Santandre he just signed a five, year ninety two and
a half million dollar deal With toronto and has been
one of the worst players in baseball since signing that.
Deal And toronto is terrible and probably going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
Selling are they going to sell like the first free
agent they signed in?

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
YEARS i don't. Know that's What luke kind of pushed
back against. It but the guy has a six to ELEVEN.
Ops he's got a two seventy FIVE, obp hitting one ninety.
Six he's even a even over the last couple of
years where he had insane seasons where forty four homers
in twenty twenty, four twenty eight and thirty three of

(01:31:43):
the two years before, that forty one doubles in twenty twenty,
Three he's had insane like extra base hit seasons even
in those, Years ops is seven to seventy, three seven ninety,
seven eight to. Fourteen not a walk, guy not a
guy who sees a lot of. Pitches not a guy
who walks a, lot strikes out a, Lot.

Speaker 4 (01:32:01):
Like he's a weird. PLAYER i.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Don't the only REASON i included him IS i kind
of thought Maybe toronto would eat some of that salary
to be, like let's get off this deal and you,
know trade this guy who seems to be a total
bust on our, team and maybe we could buy low and,
say you know, what all those things that you don't do,
well we don't. Care we need thirty five, homers like
that's all we need from. You so that was The
that was a name that just to throw out.

Speaker 5 (01:32:26):
There, YEAH i do think there is a little bit
of truth to, organizations especially a team Like toronto who's
in a whole other, country that when you do make
a big ticket signing like, that you want to keep
that guy around at least from like a reputation standpoint
or looking towards the future and kind of building that
up so we'll see where their mine's. At, like you
can't deny him, Struggling BUT i kind of lean more
towardous that side of, things they'd be a little unwilling.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
And that is Gonna we got plenty of time to
talk trade. Deadline that's gonna wrap up The Tough Cover
Radio show for Today may, tenth twenty twenty. Five we
Got John Jansen's music By God Sick hat by the,
way but we're gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:32:59):
Close down the. Show that's gonna do. It Thanks Trouble
doing for coming. On Thanks trouble and are behind the
ones and. Twos Uh Tough Cover. Country let's ride