Tough Cover Show: NBA Draft Reaction, Phillies - 06/28/25

Sean Barnard talks all things Sixers and NBA Draft in Hour 1 and is joined by Mark Henry Jr., who is on location in ... Orlando!?

In Hour 2, Sean Barnard talks all things Phillies.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand. The new
and improved iheard.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Radio w z A Yes and w D two seven
gree D Philadelphia is Fox Sports Radio the Gambler.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
You want to talk right down to that and a
language that everybody here can easily understand.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
The content.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I mean, he and know that is not Mark Henry
Junior music right there, It is Sean Minar music for
the day as Mark Henry Junior will be joining these
shortly talking all things NBA draft. The NBA world is
a turn and excited to dive into everything, and we

(01:20):
got a little bit more hope for our very own Philadelphia.

Speaker 5 (01:23):
Seventy six ers right now.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
That's right, I'm ready to start playing the songs again.
I got some renewed energy that it is the VJ.
Edgecombe era here in Philadelphia, and I do think that
there are some notable takeaways to go down from this
draft here. So excited to div into that all right
here on the Tough Cover Radio show.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Mark Henry Jr.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Will Be popping in as usual in the short term,
but I'm here to hold things down from start to
finish today and I want to start right at the
very top with VJ. Edgecomb ladies and gentlemen. The Philadelphia
seventy six ers got their guy. Did I know there
is all that talks about Ace Bailey? I personally jumped
on the as Balley island from the beginning parts here.
But the more and more that this came true or
came closer to being true here, it became evident that VJ.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Edgecombe was the guy.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
And the biggest takeaway that I think there is to
be had about this six Ers draft is the commitment
to investing in guys that are good character players. And
I wanted to pull up a quick clip from VJA
Edgecomb here that I do think tells the story. So
make sure you're listening along here as we pop over
to Taylor Rooks talking to VJ immediately after being drafted.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
The emotions on your mom's face? What were the moments
you remember most about?

Speaker 6 (02:29):
Just the way your mom poured into you throughout your
life and your career.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
Man, the long nights, long nights. I'm telling you we lived.
I lived with a generator. I had no electricity. I
live with a generator for seven years. Man, say what
she had to go through. Man, it's crazy, it's crazy.
But I don't even know, man, I'm everywhere right now, man.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
He said, so crazy emotional moment for the kid. Obviously,
it's tough to put yourself in your shoes and can
only imagin like one of the coolest things for me
personally about the NBA Draft is it's so cool to
me to watch all these kids knowing like they work
their entire life for this specific moment, that this is
the dream come true, and the emotions were certainly flowing there.
But for a guy like Vjedge come in particular, very

(03:15):
cool to hear that moment hit home and him speaking
directly the appreciation for his mom and the message that
has just continually been put out by Vjas specifically is
I just want to hoop, man. I just can't wait
to start playing basketball. And I'm pretty thrilled about all
of that response. Now I mentioned the character conversation. I
feel like for so long at this point that the
talking points in Philadelphia has been the Sixers need to

(03:39):
start over. This is a disaster. The process did not
work that this era. There is something deeply rooted that
is flawed within this Sixers organization that it needs to
be rebuilt from the bottom.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, take a look around and notice what's happening.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Because this youth movement that is happening in Philadelphia is
not coincidental that I do think Darryl Moray has looked
in the mirror. I do think Darryl Moriy has learned
some lessons from the past mistakes that have been met,
that he's looked down the barrel of trade conversations with
Ben Simmons being held under whatever phrase you want to
put it, with James Harden, that whole situation that went down.

(04:11):
This dude legitimately went to China to call Daryl Morey
a liar at an Adida's camp. Here, those things happened
here in Philadelphia, and I think Daryl took that assessment.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
And when comparing a guy like VJ.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Edgecombe, who checks every single character box, he could possibly
look for a guy that is going to work his
tail off, that has a motor when he's on the floor,
pops off the screen. From an athletic standpoint, from an
impact standpoint, from a defense standpoint, that those are the
things that from day one he will be able to
bring to the table as a basketball player. But I
think adding that type of personality to a guy like
Tyrese Maxi, who say what you want about Tyrese in

(04:45):
a little bit of a down season. A guy who's
answered every single question from start to finish for who
he is as a person, who he is as a player,
who is a member of the Sixers organization. A guy
like Jared McCain, who is one of the most vibrant
and personality, vibrant personality that we've seen in Philadelphia for
quite some time. The dude that's gonna give you thirty
and drop a TikTok dance on your head. That's who

(05:06):
Jad McCain is. And he's a guy that's a far
better basketball player than I think plenty of people are
fully aware. And then adding edgecomb to that mix, I
do think is this young core, this next generation. Now,
with all that being said, there's still quite a conversation
to be had at the top of this roster, and
that's one named Joel Embiid. And for Joel embid specifically
here that we did get a little bit of an

(05:26):
update at the Daryl Mory press press conference, and not
exactly what we ultimately wanted to hear. Now, I do
not have the SoundBite for that directly, but the quote
that Darryl Mory was put out there as he was
asked about the update for Joel and more or less
a pretty scripted response of yup, he's still meeting with doctors,
met with a doctor this week.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Everything is on schedule, healing as planned.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
And then he was directly asked, and I apologize could
not hear which reporter was asking this question in the
room here, but he was directly asked, will or do
you expect Joel Embiid to be ready for training camp?
And the Daryl Mory reply not exactly one that has
me jumping for joy, or is more or less what
he says is yes, we expect him to be ready
right around then, and that right around then just leaves

(06:08):
the door open a bit too wide for us to
be let down from my opinion there. Now, the other
part of the conversation is Paul George is a huge
part of this. Now, we did get a report late
last night from Mark Stein saying that the conversations and
rumors about the Sixers trying to trade off Paul George's
contract were nonsense at this point in the game. I
do think that is probably true, to be perfectly honest,

(06:29):
that from my understanding and my feelings on things, for
starters to view this from Darryl Morey's shoes, is not
the easiest thing to get a full scale max contract
free agent to just sign.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
On the dot line.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
In theory, it should be right, you're handing out money
and if it's more than everyone wants or anyone else
is willing to give that that should be the case there.
But the reality is, check the track record of Philadelphia,
that has not been something that has been that easily
accomplished to just simply Laura guy and free agency. I
do think for Darryl specifically, that he's very cognizant and
very aware of wanting to maintain that relationship there. So

(07:02):
for Paul George specifically, I don't think that's a guy
that he was ready to just give up on. So
I'm happy that there were no talks about that. As
I welcome Mark Henry Junior to the stage here. So Mark,
looking good down there, man, You got the tank top on.
You look in full vacation mode. Where are you checking
in from? Breaking down?

Speaker 5 (07:18):
We're checking in from Orlando. Don't know how the Wi
fi is going to be here.

Speaker 7 (07:23):
Just popping on to the Hotel Wi Fi, So there
could be could be some issues.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
That I have to figure out, but doing well.

Speaker 7 (07:31):
Universal had checked out Epic Universe yesterday, did a Disney
Day earlier in the week, more Classic Universal the rest
of the weekend. But and normally when I'm down here,
I come down here once a year. Usually normally when
I'm down here, I take off from I take off
from the show, take off from radio. But with the
NBA draft, I got to get a couple takes off. Absolutely, Yeah,

(07:55):
how am I coming through there?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Good audio, sounds all good, the definitely Wi Fi is fine.
So so happy that he did pop on and yeah,
this is an exciting week. I just kind of whacked
poetically about the direction I feel the Sixers franchisees leaning
into as far as good character guys, young athletes, and
a bit of this kind of rebuilding the culture to
an extent that I feel is the undercurrent in Philadelphia.
But I'm thrilled that VJ at Edgecomb is a part

(08:17):
of this organization, and I think he's probably one over
every single neutral party listening to him for through the
open couple of days here.

Speaker 7 (08:25):
Yeah, I've been a VJ guy for a long time.
Outside of obviously I don't even really I'll let you
handle the ACE.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
Stuff for the show.

Speaker 7 (08:35):
Everybody knows I'm an ease guy on the basketball court. Yes,
whatever's going on off it, it's hard to evaluate, I
think right now. But anyway, taking the Ace, let's say,
Ace is just off the board. Based on the circumstances
and everything that happened, VJ was absolutely the right pick.
And it's not even close to me in that regard.
So when it comes to VJ or Trey or VJ

(08:57):
or Malawock or VJ or Khan, I obviously have a
very strong lean to VJ.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
But I'll let you handle the big picture stuff.

Speaker 7 (09:08):
I'll let you handle what's up with the Mavericks and
what they're gonna do with Flag, what's up with the
Spurs and what they're gonna do with Harper, what's up
with the Sixers, especially what's up with Ace. Just some
takes overall that I wrote down to get off here.
The first one is ACE related. I know everyone's clowning
utah I think they did the right thing. Utah As

(09:29):
and Walt were my number two and fifteen prospects, and
they got them at five and eighteen. So just from
a value standpoint, I think they got really good value
for the draft picks that they made. Now you can
argue if they took Trey instead of Ace and he
wanted to be there and he still doesn't want to
be there, maybe there's maybe you could say that that
would have been a better call. But I obviously like

(09:50):
Trey as well the Hornets. Speaking of Trey, the Hornet's
taking con ensures that one of ace er tray will
make them look very dumb. In my opinion, there's a
one hundred percent chance that that conpic is, like, man,
can you believe they till con over blank.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I don't mind it for Charlotte more so than like
the like the Washington and Utah. I certainly feel that
way when they're still committed to this LaMelo ball sort
of outlook here that you need these low usage guys
to surround, and they have Brandon Miller already, who I
think fits that archetype. So I'm not as specifically hard
on the Hornets about that decision as I would be
with Utah or Washington.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
I don't think they should be committed to Lamello.

Speaker 7 (10:27):
It's a different conversation, but yeah, I think it's hard
to commit to him as a human being, I would
think at this point. But yeah, it's a shamee Con
is gonna be running red lights all over North Carolina,
doing one hundred and twenty on highways on fifty fives.
It's a shame. It's bad influence. I'm worried about conn.

(10:47):
But anyway, Trey and Will Riley heck of a hall
for the sixth and the twenty first pick for Washington.
Good stuff from them. So there they seem to be
on the right track. Team that's certainly not on the
right track. Joe Dumars and the New Orleans Pelicans, the
Master of disaster. Joe Dumars, what an absolute travesty.

Speaker 5 (11:11):
You have the chance. Derek Queen, I actually brought this up.

Speaker 7 (11:15):
I hopped on the trill stream my first night here
in Orlando on the draft, and I brought up the
beginning of the stream. I was like, did you guys know,
Derek Queen is minus money to go seventh to New
Orleans and the pick comes around Fears I was supposed
to probably be gone fifth. So a lot of people
assumed Fears would be gone by the time that New

(11:35):
Orleans took seven.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
I'm not as high on fears as a lot of people.
That's another conversation.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
But to J Smith, he's the Kyrie Irving, second coming
of Kyrie Irvin.

Speaker 7 (11:45):
Yeah, good luck, Kyrie can shoot. But the the Pelly.
It is very funny that the Pelicans took like, of
the marquee prospects. They took the two guys that I'm like,
I'm out, like I want no parts of it, and
they so both of them and gave up and unprotected
first to do so insane, But going up from twenty

(12:06):
three to thirteen, costing an unprotected not actually you know,
scratched up, not only an unprotected first round pick, the
better of your two first round picks that you own,
so both lottery tickets. Let's say you trade your pick. Well,
if Milwaukee sticks, at least you have that that outcome. Well,
if you trade Milwaukee's pick, at least you have your pick,

(12:27):
and you have that outcome you traded whatever the best
roll of the dice is.

Speaker 5 (12:32):
Yeah, of your picks. It's maddening, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 7 (12:37):
And people are gonna say, like, oh, you can't say
that about a draft pick. What if he turns into
and all I saw Sham's carrying the water. Yeah, what
if he turns into an All Star? And then we're
not talking about the pick that they gave up, and
Sam Austry's like, we're all acting like this pick is
a top five pick.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
It could be. It could be a top five pick.

Speaker 5 (12:58):
Absolutely, but.

Speaker 7 (13:02):
The point is not necessarily like, oh, let's wait a
couple of years and evaluate it. I think there's a
difference between when we can look at a value proposition,
live in the moment and say this is too much,
this is overpaying. You're going from twenty three to thirteen.
Twelve teams just passed on this guy for reasons. There

(13:24):
are reasons out there, and it's very funny that you
were favored to be the team taking him at seven.
We last five more picks after that. I think there's
something to be said about that that.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
You were the only team in.

Speaker 7 (13:37):
The lottery that was interested in what Derek Queen had
to bring to the table. Not to mention, you already
have a fat sow on your team and here's another
fat guy, and then you have fears you can't shoot,
to your list of people on your team who can't
really shoot. I do not understand anything about what the
Pelicans did all on Draft night.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, no, I don't get it either. That I don't.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
I'm also not a Derek Queen guy that I I
don't see the vision. And frankly, if I was to
line up teams around the NBA that I think would
be worst case scenario for Derek Queen to land on,
the Pelicans would be pretty close to the top of
that list that I don't think. Yeah, I could see
that that, certainly can see that functioning a little more.
But like New Orleans, how is he going to co exist?
Was on how and Sam was trying to sell me

(14:22):
this vision. Well, you got Missy is a lob catcher,
Zion's guy that he that Queen can play make through
the bottom line, dude is like this. I just don't
think Derek Queen is that dude from a playmaking perspective.
Like I brought up these numbers before, but the average
one point nine assists per game. He had nineteen games
with one or fewer assists. He's not the hub of
an offense in the way that it's brought out. I

(14:42):
even would go as far as to say that our
guy John A Broom or Jani Broom in the second round.
Who I'm not a fan of him in general, but
I think he's a better playmaker than Derek Queen.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Straight up. Yeah he might be.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
I Jenni Broom.

Speaker 7 (14:57):
I don't even want to spend like mental energy thinking
about Jeni Room. I have a buddy of mine who's
like fully in. He's like, oh, well, we just landed.
We just landed a Pat Moran, you know, who is
a pretty smart guy generally, but he loves the I
think he's blinded by the production.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
He's not a big college guy.

Speaker 7 (15:14):
Okay, so he's like he's scam packing the scouting in
now and it's all stats and analytics. And he likes
him for probably the same reasons Daryl does. But yeah,
I'm I can't even fathom what New Orleans did. And
I was on the stream until the twelfth pick. I
who the Bulls take Noahesinge, Yeah, they took him twelfth.

(15:38):
So they have a bulls guy on and I'm here
on vacation, I'm with my wife. I was like, all right,
we'll go down to the bar and grab a drink
at the hotel bar and the bulls they have a
bulls guy and I was like, I'll let him cook.
We'll be back up by like the fifteen sixteenth pick,
and for whatever reason, you know, you talk to people
down there, I zoned out, like I was out of

(15:59):
the draft from like picked twelve to fifteen. And I
got back up and I'm catching up on everything that happened,
and I'm like, what did the Pelicans give up? I like,
it was like I had like a fifteen minute delayed
reaction to the point where I went on such a
rampage tweeting about that, hopping back on the true stream

(16:19):
to talk about it, all that stuff. I totally missed
that the Spurs took Carter Bryant until the next morning
I was I was like, oh, I kind of like that.
I like that landing really really good, really good landing
spot for Carter Bryant.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
By the way, Pelicans more incredibly sensitive about it too,
because that tweet that you mentioned about Seans and yeah,
Bill Simmons, Risseillo, they all had their takes, which are
I think are pretty spot on about like this was
a ridiculous overpay here.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
Maybe they hey Brace's team perk, Yeah, yeah Simmons.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah that is wild.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
But uh, anyway, the Pelicans team account quote tweeted Seams
reporting that and said, uh, but you can't say that
if or if you are to say that, you won't
a podcast on the ringer here, which is just insane
from an organization to be doing to me that sensitive
about their draft pick right there. But nonetheless I'll throw
you back the rock.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (17:11):
Absolutely clown behavior from the New Orleans Pelicans who went
out and hired like the failed twenty ten's GM in
Joe Dumars, like guy who was like, no, Josh Smith,
Greg Munroe and Andre Drummond can play together in twenty
eleven or whenever that was, like, it really is unbelievable

(17:33):
that he has another job. And I forget who was
talking about it, but he went and worked with the NBA. Yeah,
once for a decent amount of time.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (17:40):
I mean he's been going from the Pistons for like
a decade decade. Yeah, yeah, so he's been working in
the NBA. He just worked in the NBA League office
long enough that people forgot he was an idiot. It's
really what it is, and it's good for him. Another
another GM who I think is on idiot walk is

(18:01):
it has to be Sean marks, then that's when now
took a bunch of swings on a bunch of white
dudes and foreign dudes who can dribble pass and can't
shoot or do anything athletically.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
And the crazy thing about it, they didn't take the
right swing. Caspers shoot.

Speaker 7 (18:20):
If you're looking at that mich I know you're not
a Casper's guy like I am. But if you're looking
at that model of player in this year's draft, like
Igor Demon, casper Is, Trey Or who's the other one
that benar Ben Sarah of a similar of a similar ilk,
Casperis is the one to take the swing on. And

(18:42):
the nets took Igor and Hate and trey Or at
nineteen before of course Casperis lands right with the Miami
heat to be twenty twenties Goran Dragics.

Speaker 5 (18:54):
He's gonna be Goren Drodgers to Miami.

Speaker 7 (18:55):
He's gonna go average fifteen seven and six and be
a fine guard and the fringe starter.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
Six men to like.

Speaker 7 (19:04):
I just think they absolutely just got another steal at
twenty for no reason.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
I had them seventh them on board.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, I love the spot for Casparis with the heat there.
I think that's a great pick. Up a great spot
for both sides that does work. And even to take
a side like the like, I think it's a fair
point to point out maybe they're taking the wrong swings.
The whole approach I disagree with here, Like you just
taken five guys of like all right, one of these
guys will pan out or two of these guys could
end up being potential franchise centerpieces here, I just don't

(19:30):
think that's the best organizational practice, like get in. I
would have much rather the Nets traded up for to
get like two really high picks and those are your
guys like and then kick the can down the line
have future flexibility.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
That's the approach that I would take.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
And I'm shocked that they took all five first round picks,
and it is really bizarre to be that they took
very similar archetypes of players throughout.

Speaker 7 (19:51):
And I was on the trill stream if you've seen
that clip going around laughing like a super villain.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
Yeah, when they took Igor. The reason I look like
an insane person on the prison in that clip.

Speaker 7 (20:02):
But the reason that I was laughing like that is
because Trell has a buddy who's a Nets fan who
hops on the streams and when he hates he hated
fears and he's out on guards. You can't shoot this
whole thing. So when Fears went seven, he like came
on the stream like popping a bottle and like, oh
we avoided fears, we didn't get the guard can't shoot.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
And he's like, now, as long as we don't take egor,
I'm fine.

Speaker 7 (20:26):
And then they take Egor, so like laughing, like that
was literally that was what that was about. But one
more not, I'm not I don't hate this pick as
much as the last couple that I've torn apart CMB
calin wary Boyles.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
I'm not in the same way that I.

Speaker 7 (20:41):
Think you're a little higher on him than I end
if i'm if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah I'm not.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I mean I'm not like the number one guy for him,
but I see a pathway to him being enough that
he can be like a valuable NBA player. I respect
the way, like the dude competes, the dude plays hard,
and the dude has like one of the strongest players
draft the shots. Obviously, I'm pretty out on like non
shooting bigs who especially when they're like six foot seven,
so I see a limited ceiling, but I think Toronto

(21:07):
is a good spot for him, and they obviously lean
into that archetype pretty heavily there. They have guys like
Scottie Barnes and Brandon Ingram and you can go down
the list of the roster already.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
But I'm open minded on CMB.

Speaker 7 (21:19):
They're different players, but I feel the same way about
him as I do about Clean, to be honest, like
kind of fringy tweener.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (21:28):
And the other thing is that he's another guy who
people throw out the hub the hub comments two point
four assist two point four turnovers. By the way, like
I think we've gotten this is my biggest takeaway from
the whole draft. We have gotten over obsessed and have
completely over indexed passing for big mench Yeah, we have

(21:50):
completely overrated it as a skill. Jokic has broken brains,
Shngoon has broken brains. Those are special players for most centers.
You do not want them to have the ball enough
for that skill to matter.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
Yes, that's my team.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
No, I wholeheartedly agree with that, and I was a
sort of anti Nikola Jokic guy for quite some time
from the stance if that's just not the archetype of
basketball player that I like that I think in general,
like one of my key principles is you have to
have a big man that protects the rim like that,
and Jokic has never been able to do that. I
think people fell in love and rightfully so. He's a
special talent. But it should be noted that Nicolokic is

(22:27):
the outlier, not the rule.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Here that this is same thing.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, Shingoon, but even a guy like Demanas Sabonis here
is he's been an All NBA center, he's been an
All Star, he puts up these ridiculous triple double type numbers.
He's actively harmful from a playoff setting. Like That's what
I think. Like that style of player, that arch type
of player. While you can be a level of special
to make it work, it's very few that can make
that cut. And far more that I think you're sacrificing

(22:52):
way more than it's adding by playing to that style.

Speaker 7 (22:57):
Great pick by the Sun's ten to take Maliloch. I
actually really like a lot of what.

Speaker 5 (23:03):
The Sons did. Yeah they got they that Do they
have another guy who went they went and got? I
might be Yeah, I might be Kobe Breyan.

Speaker 7 (23:13):
They got Kobe Brea, who I like a shooter, who
I actually had. I only ranked twenty six guys in
this draft. He was my twenty sixth guy. He was
like the last guy. I was like, this guy is
worth an NBA look, So I like them going out
and taking a swing there. So yeah, going and getting
h com On Malilach tenth, who I had fifth. I

(23:34):
think that I killed the KD trade. I'm not going
to tell you it's a good trade, but if it
was the fifth pick instead of the tenth pick, I
would have felt differently. And if they would have picked
taken Maliluc five, I would have been like, good pick.
So I'm feeling a little conflicted. Now I feel better
about the trade for them. The weird thing is I
like the Mark Williams trade in theory. You gave up

(23:56):
the twenty ninth pick and a super super protect future pick.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
That's kind of fake. So Mark Williams good player. Yeah whatever.

Speaker 7 (24:05):
It's really weird to draft Kaman Malawak at ten a
center and then within five minutes have a trade leak
about you trading for a center like completely kills the
like mojo and vibes of you taking a swing on
a top ten center a little bit.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
But yeah, in theory, I like.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Me too, and I think probably the mindset is like
Mark Williams can from day one be kind of an
impact guy, where Malawak will be a bit of a
work in progress. I think he provides something from day one,
Like I don't think this guy's a zero in the
way that some people talk about him.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
But it's weird.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
This Phoenix Suns team has made so many significant mistakes,
like the Bradley Beal trade, like the Kevin Durant trade,
recently going all in on this three star model, but
some of like the more intricate things they've done I
really like, Like I think they had a great draft
class that this year. Last year, I like they did,
like picking up a guy like OsO Agadaro in the
second round. Ryan Dunn had made an impact and serves

(24:54):
a purpose for them. So it's like, as much as
they can be viewed as a stupid organization, they're are
some things that they do that I kind of like.
The the more I would say, difficult things to swing
there outside of the big picture, So I don't know
how that ultimate grades. That's obviously not as important as
you know. The main point here and like where I
think the organizations off the map is they're committed to
trading every future asset as soon as possible. Right when

(25:16):
another year passes and more future picks open up, those
are being sent out for something. So I wonder how
you know sustainable that approaches. I think there could be
a stretch where we're looking at just them being absolutely
desolute for like four seasons. But for the time being,
they're gonna keep trying to get up to the plate
and take more swings to get in the playoff mix.

Speaker 7 (25:34):
What was the Portland Memphis trade? I didn't see the
details that.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
I know Hands and Jang one.

Speaker 7 (25:42):
Yeah, Portland moved up to eleven and take Coward and
Memphis moved or opposite. Memphis moved up to eleven to
take Coward, Portland down to sixteen and take Hands and Yang.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
I'm not gonna tell you.

Speaker 7 (25:55):
I know a lot about Hanson Yang. Yeah, Yeah, there's
some fun highlights out there. Ron Ri Stilla said he
was grunting at people have come to get the ball
because he couldn't speak English. I think his English actually
improved a lot. Yeah, Yeah, it seems like he's going
to be able to speak some English, which I think
probably helps honestly as a basketball player.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
There is more.

Speaker 7 (26:17):
It's not like baseball like I think there has. There
is more, Like you need communication. I watched yeah, I
watched Yoo talk about he someone he was giving an
interview who he he actually speaks really well. Yeah, I mean,
and so he was giving an interview and someone asked like,
how did you learn? Did you use like a translator?
He's like, hang out and hang out in the locker

(26:40):
room for a month, You'll learn a lot of words.

Speaker 5 (26:42):
And it was pretty funny. But uh great.

Speaker 7 (26:46):
I mean, I love the fit for Memphis to go
get Coward. He's a perfect fit there. And I said
it on the stream, might be the best wing immediately
the jaw has ever played with it probably as of
now is Santi Aldama last year probably had the best
wing season of the last like six years in Memphis.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
Not even joking.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, that's that's fair there.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, I think the I'll say this, the Cedric Coward,
I think momentum has swung a bit higher than what
I was comfortable with.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
But maybe he just has.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Never looked like a good basketball player against real talent.
Like even even yeah, true, but in those chances, like
he hasn't looked the part. I would say with that said, like,
I would bet on the kid. I think he's as
high character dude as you'll find. Like when you watch
his interviews and stuff, you can tell like he's a
smart kid who cares and is kind of curious in

(27:35):
a way that I think does bode well for what
his future outcome will be. So I'm not killing Cedric
Coward by any means. And you're probably right that he
may be the best wing that Joe has ever played with,
which is absurd malpractice there. And just to give the
full details of that trade there, that the Trailblazers trading
the draft rights to Cedric Coward the eleventh overall pick
to the Memphis Grizzlies, in exchange for the rights to

(27:56):
Yang Hanson, a future first round pick and two second
round picks.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
So decent.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
I wonder what that future first there's protection is on there,
that's just unprotected Noah' twelve to Chicago.

Speaker 7 (28:07):
I'm not gonna I opted out of the international guys
on this class. I don't know a lot about most.
What I will say is like people killing Noah for
like leaving his team to go to the draft. I
thought that was crazy. He literally was only on that
team to get drafted, like that his whole everything he

(28:27):
was working for is that night. Like I thought that
was crazy. He played like six minutes a game like
leaning in in the playoffs, Like I thought people were
really mean about that. Just to be honest, like I
thought they were really over the top.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
I would agree with you, it probably went a bit
over the top, like I saw Kevin O'Connor taking a
shot being like not what I would want in a
first round pick or somebody something I would consider from
my board perspective, Like I wouldn't go that far with anything.
I do think it's a little strange, especially in like
juxtaposition to Ben Sarah, his teammate like continuing to like
stay with the team and play things out, who was
obviously picked in the later rounds the now Brooklyn net. So.

(29:04):
I don't think it was a great look there, But
I don't think it's anything to kill the kid about.
And I think, like, without knowing what the situation is,
like he could hate his coach, he could not like
it over there. There's a lot of factors that like
play into things and we wants to have his NBA
draft moment.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
I can understand that.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
Yeah, I whatever.

Speaker 7 (29:21):
I couldn't care less about it personally, I said, I
missed it. Carter Bryant fourteen. I Carter Bryant right basically
tied with Central Coward. I had Coward fleming and Bryant
basically right now connect ten, eleven, twelve Carter Bryant good
fit say is like, I feel like san Antonio could
have went all offense, like they could have went with

(29:42):
a full on offensive pick and be like defense doesn't
matter for us because we.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
Have Wenby behind him, like Will Riley.

Speaker 7 (29:49):
I actually might have liked even more for them, just
as like a bucket getter.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
But they'll they'll be a dominant defense.

Speaker 7 (29:57):
Did you see that clip going around Carter Bryant talking
to the guy on the bench. I'll have to send
it to you after Crazy Crazy Ara one of the
one of the highest UR ratings I've ever given a
video in my life. Dude, he's like talking about how
much he loves hoop and it's just like it's awesome.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
He's like, I'm for.

Speaker 7 (30:16):
Riverside, you know, it's really really cool video uh, Thomas
Sorbert fifteen to Okay, See.

Speaker 5 (30:23):
My buddy was like, I can't believe they got away
with it. My take on it, I don't think this
is like I can't believe they got away with it.
Guy like he wasn't really supposed to go top ten.

Speaker 7 (30:32):
Like I was so sure they were gonna get Coward
or Carter Bryant or I don't even know who else
would have been on that list, but I was so
sure someone was gonna fall to them that we thought
was gonna go top ten that once they got Sober,
I was like, all right, that's like around where I
thought super Serber was gonna go, like good pick.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
I like Storber.

Speaker 7 (30:53):
I think I had him seventeen or eighteen, but I'm
not like, oh they got away with another one.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, I like him a lot.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
I am pretty high on a Sober overall, and I
do think that he's like the long term replacement for
Hartenstein that I think like there's a pretty clear world
where Siber can play next to Chet as that big
Man wants. That final year of Hartenstein's contract looks like
the one that they'll probably have to move on to
move on from once that they do Jaylen Williams give
Chet his extension all that conversation. So I think it's
good future planning from the Thunder perspective, and I think

(31:23):
there's day one he's gonna be a little a bit
more ready than some people have talked about there. So
it was a real deal in my mind, and a
guy that I think could be a pretty great defensive prospect.

Speaker 5 (31:32):
I'll be honest, I missed that the Nets got Drake
Powell until right now. That's not that fine.

Speaker 7 (31:38):
Yeah, shout out to Orlando for stealing Jace Richards twenty five.
What a perfect fit. He's going to have a role
right away on that team. That's awesome to see. And
then one last guy I'll get out here are actually
one last team, one last team I'll get out of
here before well, shout out with Sheer Fleming.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
Good pick in the second half for Fea. We already
talked about that.

Speaker 7 (32:01):
But the other second round pick that I thought was
by far the best goes with another first round pick
from the same team that I thought was a great pick, Sacramento. Yeah,
great little draft right from the Sacramento Kings. Nick Clifford,
your guy who I'll kind of let you talk about
more than they, but neck Clifford a great value at
twenty four. I think I had him fourteen something around that,

(32:22):
and so getting him at twenty four really really good value.
And then in round two coming back and getting Maxine Raynad,
who I had twentieth overall on my board, took him
forty second once Fleming went off the board, he was
the highest rated guy on my board thirty one on.
So Raynond, I don't know what I'm missing. I actually
like Dove back in in between the day of day two.

(32:44):
I don't is it defense, like the questions are on defense,
but I feel like he's actually a decent shop blocker,
Like I really like ray not. I think this guy's
going to be an NBA player.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, I do as well.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
I kind of thought there was a chance that he
would sneak into the end of the first round there,
even that I was that high on him. And I'm
obviously like for the sixers specifically should have been the
pick over jan I Broom. I think absolutely, I do.
Tierra would have been my personal pick there. That would
have been my number one choice, but yeah, right now,
and I would have number two, So I don't I
see it like minded as youth, and I think this

(33:15):
guy's an NBA player, and I think he sticks for
quite a bit of time.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Confused why he slipped whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
And to the Neeck Clifford point here, Nick was the
guy that coming into the draft, you asked me, all
things equal, this guy can land on any team, but
he's guaranteed to have an NBA career. Neek Clifford would
be my prediction for that. He's really gonna put that
to the test out there in Sacramento. But I do
think he's a guy. Yeah, he'll get a rong no,
I think so for sure, and I do think he'll

(33:40):
stick around. He's smart, and I think once again our
mindset has shifted a little bit to where twenty three
used to be looked at as like a blemish on
a prospect. This guy can contribute right now, and I
think that's a really positive thing that every organization should
be interested in.

Speaker 7 (33:53):
He's been a role player, he's been the lead guy,
he's been a lead, he's been like kind of secondary guard.
I think Neet Clifford is like the prototypical we're talking
in February or March, how this guy goes twenty fourth. Yeah,
there's no chance in my mind that that happens. And
I wouldn't normally say that about a King's prospect, but

(34:13):
I'll definitely I'll definitely say that about Nick. I'll leave
the rest of the board to you. I'll leave everything
else on the draft side of things to you. I
had one more thing I wanted to say before I
get out of here, and I totally.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
Totally just slip my mind vacation mode over here, but
I'll text it if I remember it. Tough cover country,
listen to Shan.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Bernard, perfect well, Mark Andrew Jr.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I'll let you enjoy the good times down in Florida,
the good weather down there a little bit, I'm sure better,
although it's plenty hot here as well. But I'll dive
a little bit back into the draft takes here before
we hit our first break here. A couple other things
that I did want to get into, and I like
that we kind of just listed our top takeaways for
Mark with me and Mark here. I know he's an
anti icon k nipple guy, and I understand the low

(34:59):
floor all these things. The thing that I'll say about
this is I just kind of ripped down the draft
board a little bit. I think it makes sense from
the Hornets perspective. I understand that LaMelo ball has been
soured on quite a bit, and there's plenty of good
reason for that, but a little bit of immaturity off
the court, the questionable shot selection that this dude was
leading the NBA in three point attempts still ended up
leading the NBA in three point attempts per game for

(35:19):
the season last year. Ultimately did not qualify due to
the lack of games and injuries there.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
But the dude is going to let it fly.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
I bring that up is to say bringing in a
low usage guy like Cohn who can just compliment things
does make a little bit of sense to me. So
I'm not going to kill the Hornets for making that
fourth overall pick. And the other thing is, I think
the Hornets are in a bit of a similar situation
to the Sixers here and for different reasons, as they
bought in more to the side of things of I
would say off court character concerns is much more of

(35:46):
the case compared to here in Philadelphia, where it is
an injury risk thing. But what has become the norm
is sort of a bad culture down in Charlotte and
taking a guy like Con I think is a huge
step to improve that. They also drafted Liam McNeely with
the twenty ninth pick. I know that I'm not the
biggest Lee McNeely guy that I think there are flaws
in him from a skill set perspective, but the pedigree
is here, a Monford kid who has all the talent.

(36:08):
I do think that that's a guy that knows the
way to play the game of basketball and is a
good fit. So kind of contributing to that as well.
The Ace Balley conversation, which Mark Henry mentioned at the
fifth overall pick.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Here's what I'll say about Ace overall.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
I'll start with I still believe in him as a
basketball player, but that my opinions for him on the
court have not really changed to this point. But what
needs to be separated here is who Ace Bally is
is not this can't miss, impossible not to be great
prospect here.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
He's a good basketball player with.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Plenty of intriguing an intriguing skill set, but there's things
to be worked on here. The shot selection a legitimate question,
the lack of playmaking a legitimate question here, and he
does not help his case when he gets to the
spot from a draft perspective where he's in the mix
and is unwilling to answer those questions, which is exactly
what we just saw go down in the pre draft process.
There are reports circling now of Acepelly told at least

(37:00):
one top five team that do not draft me because
I'm not showing up. I think we can basically conclude
right here that that team was the Philadelphia seventy six Yers.
By process of elimination here we know it's either the
Hornets or the Sixers. I have to imagine it was Philadelphia.
That we do know that Ace belly out of those teams.
This is the only situation in which he outright canceled

(37:21):
a workout. Now it is the norm, not I don't
say the norm, but he's not the first potential prospect
to not work out for NBA teams that does happen.
He is the first guy I've ever heard that an
organization has had dinner plans, breakfast plans, hotel book for you,
workout scheduled in the morning, and less than twenty four
hours beforehand, he hits you with a nah, actually I'm

(37:42):
not showing up. That is a first for me from
Ace Baly's perspective, and I think that would have to
be a first from Daryl Morey's perspective here, except for
some unforeseen circumstance in which travel plans can get interrupted
or anything, I don't think that guys just cancel on that.
And by the way, directly costing himself money, that him
dropping from the third pick to the fifth pick directly
cost him about nine million dollars right there. That is

(38:04):
straight up the facts, and for a guy who, again
I don't want to be too hard on the Ace
Balley directly because to me, this very clearly falls into
the category of a good kid getting bad advice that
there should be somebody stepping in at this point. Omar
Cooper is simply talking a bit above his head here
and he has been brought to public light. I also
think it is notable that the other guy representing him

(38:26):
and I'm dropping I can't think of his name off
the top of my head here, but basically went on
TV to separate himself.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
That he talked about that Ace.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Is excited to be in Utah, that Omar has made
it clear that the goal is to get him a team,
that that is a match. This isn't something that you know,
anything out of the ordinary other than that, and that
he's thrilled to be in Utah. That was coming from
that side of things. I think the fact should still
be presented as fact that he is not in Utah,
that he did not take the plane with Walter Clayton
Junior to join his new team. That is another thing

(38:55):
that is out of the normal with the Ace Balley conversation.
So I am both satisfied that a team called the
Ace Baalley bluff, that we're going to see how the
sultimate concludes and how far he's willing to take things,
and very happy that it is not happening in Philadelphia.
While from a basketball perspective, I still think there is
a case that if everything clicks for Ace Bailey directly here,
it's going to be a higher ceiling that a guy

(39:18):
like VJ.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Edgecomb.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
You can sign me up for a guy that I'm
just one hundred percent more confident is going to reach
whatever his potential is that for VJ. Edgecombe specifically, the
one hundred percent version of VJ. Edgecomb may not be
the one hundred percent version of Ace Bailey, but the
floor of what we get out of VJ is so
much higher than what it will be out of Ace
that I do think there's a real world where this

(39:40):
guy just never suits up for the Utah Jazz, that
he continues this dance and wants to make it clear
that I'm not happy being here.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Trade me.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
And I don't think that this is a spot where
Utah is gonna budge that Danny Age is not really
a guy to pull punches on these parts of conversation.
I even like the swing for Utah specifically that they
still need a guy that can fill the Ace Balley
shoes to be a guy that wants to take twenty
shots a game that Utah Jazz team needs that that. Yes,
they have Lori Marketen, they have Isaiah Collier, they have

(40:08):
Keyante George. They have guys there, but they don't have
a clear vision. So if for Ace Balley specifically, all
you're interested in hoopin, I just want to keep it
on basketball. That's all you get to do out there
in Salt Lake City. Man, there is not going to
be the distractions that you should be fearing at this
young part, and you're not gonna be caught in the
mix in the same way with Utah. So while it
is not in the East Coast the way that he
desired here, you made your bed and now you got

(40:30):
to sleep in it.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Man.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
So I'm kind of thrilled that this is how the
Ace Baalley conversation ultimately concluded here. I am thrilled that
the Sixers are not a part of it and we
don't have to be dealing with this. Can you think
about what a miserable offseason it would be if, after
we've put a bow on the Ben Simmons situation, the
James are narrow, all of these complainings and issues that
we've dealt with here just to walk right into this.

(40:52):
Can you imagine if after the most dreadful Sixer season
of my entire lifetime, in which it was lifeless from
start to finish, that they never got off the start line,
with Joel Embiid and Paul George continually battling injuries. There
they limp all the way to the finish line. They
get the third overall pick in the draft, and that
starts with the dude holding out and actively demanding that
he's not shown up the camp there. That would be

(41:14):
a disaster here for the first time in well over
a year. At this point, it feels like there's some
hope surrounding the Philadelphia seventy six ers. And I'm thrilled
about this. And I did want to pull up one
more quote from VJ. Edgecomb here to kind of show
what kind of kid he is and how impactful the
role specifically that I do think he's going to bring
to the tables here. So as I pulled this up,

(41:35):
that he was asked about what is the role that
he sees with himself, and he talked right about the
defensive end of the floor.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
So as I play this, DJA, you.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
Were asked about offense, but on the other end of
the court, you're very vocal about not just being a
willing defender, but someone who loves to go out there
and play defense. Exactly where does that philosophy come.

Speaker 8 (41:55):
From for you?

Speaker 9 (41:57):
Aileen, I'm growing up.

Speaker 8 (41:58):
I mean, if you wanted to play events, so I
feel that's where it all started for me. And I said,
I just hate to see people score and I hate
to mose. Like I said, they scored more points than
if you mose. So if I say losing, so if
I have to play defensive old time, I love doing that.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
So here, I love this response from VJ.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And I do think that that is a telling response
here of the way that he's wired, the way that
he's built, the way that he looks at things here,
and that level of competition is another thing that I
think is just great for the Sixers as a franchise.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Here. Do I know that VJ.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Edgecomb can be the guy that can defend the top
options on opposing teams? Absolutely not yet, But am I
willing to give that kid a chance? You better believe
it that. I do think that there is something to
this pick from a change in organizational outlook, and I
think the second round pick, the guy sitting right next
to him in that clip is an example of that
as well. Now, when Jena I Broom was selected off
the board here, I won't lie my immediate reaction. My

(42:50):
immediate tweet said gross that I was not in on
the pick, and I still have my doubts that would
not have been the selection that I would have made.
That A du Tierra was a guy that popped off
the page as far as coming out of Arkansas, a
switchable athletic wing, a dude that will dive all over
the court on a constant basis, get his hands on
every loose ball, get in every little mix or a
skirmish that is on the floor. It's my kind of

(43:10):
guy that that would have been my pick right there
at the thirty fifth pick. But ultimately these sixers did
want to go to the big man direction. I've heard
on pretty good sources here that the dude who went
thirtieth overall to the Clippers, Janick Niederhauser, I believe is
how you closely say his name, the Penn State kid
who I struggled with, very cool, and shout out to
Dick Girardi, who does an awesome job covering the beat here.

(43:30):
Gave me some really good intel on him as a player,
him as a person, and really cool to see the
way that the skyrocket that this was a dude that
was basically off the map from an NBA draft perspective
for a good part of the season and even in
the pre draft process, ultimately crushed it at workouts, crushed
it at the combine, and really had teams attracted to
him and away to the point where the Clippers selected
him with the last pick in the first round. But

(43:52):
I bring this up as to say, is I am
under the impression that would have been the Sixers selection
at thirty five. There would have been interesting. I'm not
the biggest young guy. We rooting from him from a
perspective of he is a local kid as a Penn
State kid. I mean, I guess he's a Swiss kid,
so didn't originally here, but ultimately has some ties to
the Philadelphia region. Will be rooting for him, but he
moves well. The Sixers evaluated that they need to go

(44:14):
big man, and that's interesting to me for a couple
of different reasons. Here we know the uncertainty with Joel Embiid.
Andre Drummond did opt into his player option. That was
breaking news yesterday as expected as would be the case
there as Andre Drummond probably is not fetching five million
dollars on the open market this day these days, but
he did have that player option to opt into. Now,
Drummond was disastrous last year. There is no way around this,

(44:37):
to be fair to him, so was every other angle
of the six Er team. That everything that could go
wrong did go wrong last year. With Andre Drummonds certainly
included in the mix. I don't have a ton of
optimism that there is this bounce back year for him? Frankly,
we know what Andre Drummond has been into his peak,
and we know what he looked like last year, and
it does feel like this dude aged about forty five
years since the first time that he was on the

(44:59):
Sixers to land year in the version of him that
we saw. But if he can be this innings Zeter
type of starting center in the way that the Sixers
very clearly need, that is still a role or a
vision that makes sense there, I'm kind.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Of skeptical that is the case.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
We also saw a den Bona take some really positive
strides as the season did progress there. I'm curious how
much they project for him to have a role moving forward.
We will see ultimately as these things work itself out.
But they're throwing jan I Broom in the mix here.
And a couple other factors that I did want to
add about Room specifically and why I think the Sixers
went this direction. Number one is I think, well, for starters,
he's been the best player on one of the best

(45:34):
teams in college for three years now at Auburn, that
he was the face of that Auburn team, the guy
that produced at a very high level. He's a ridiculous rebounder,
a double digit rebounder. Guy will push Drummond and I
think honestly win out as the best rebounder on the
team from day one. So that was a very good
playmaker and I was impressed by this. I was not
as aware of this being a key part of his

(45:54):
skill set until I go back into the film after
they made this selection here that I think he was
a fine passer. I didn't think he was a guy
that could be potentially running offense through Allah Derek Queen,
as Sam Oshure would like to point out the hub
of the offense. I think there's kind of you can
squint your eyes and see it with Broom. Now, do
I think he'll be able to do this at the
NBA level in a major way? Probably not, But do
I think that's a valuable skill set on a six

(46:16):
ers team that does lack a true point guard.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Still, I do think that's valuable.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
I also think it is worth noting that Broom did
play with a true big man next to him at
Auburn for stretches, so maybe there is a world where
he can be a bit of a power forward mold
for the Sixers team wasn't a great shooter last year struggled.
I believe he shot twenty nine percent from three, certainly
below thirty there, but he shot thirty five percent the
season prior. I'm not thinking that he's going to be
a good shooter, but can he be good enough to

(46:40):
be a when I'm wide open on the perimeter, just
knock one down once in a while. I think he
can get there. Absolutely, is he limited athletically, for sure.
I think from day one and really for his entire career,
the Jeni Broom is gonna be one of the worst
athletes in the NBA. But you know what, when I
went to look up his vertical, which I did to
a recreation of and wanted to make sure that I
could beat his vertical there on Draft night, that he

(47:01):
posted a twenty four and a half inch vertical at
the combine. Did measure that out and made sure I
could beat that myself. But I brought that up to
kind of bring a point here that looking at the
worst verticals ever, and you know who's number one on
that list, Nikola Jokic and NBA combine history. Nikola Jokic
has the lowest vertical here. Turns out he's done okay
for himself as well as far as carving out a

(47:23):
role and making his NBA impact. So it is not
a one size fits all type of league. I don't
think Jani Broom is Nikola Jokic by any means, but
I appreciate that these sixers are taking a bit of
that basketball sense more so than the role athletic numbers there.
I do think he's gonna struggle athletically. I do think
he's going to be pulled out to the perimeter and
bullied a bit, that there will be he will struggle

(47:44):
to match up with the posing guards, and that there
will be some inherent issues when it's brought to the table.
But if you believe in the guy from a character
from a work great perspective, which he checks every single
box there. It was even funny watching his intro presser
where he's talking like some of the obstacles that he's
overcome and he's like, yeah, like I've lost two games
in a row before, and he was dead straight serious,
and I'm like, okay, So this dude comes from winning

(48:05):
pedigree from start to finish, and obviously we've seen his
record at Auburn he believes he's played at morehead state
than two years before that he's had to get it.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Out of the mud a little bit. So I'm a
bit more open to.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Jenni Broom than I was when that selection was first made,
and I do think that he once again fits this
criteria and mindset of we're changing the entire culture of
this Sixers franchise.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
We will see.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Ultimately of what goes down with all of that, but
there is a little bit of a hope in a
way that I am optimist about this six Ers team
that feels like it's desperately needed.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
If this these two picks, with VJ.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Edgecumb certainly being the more notable needle mover here, if
these land correctly here, I do think the Sixers could
ace this two timelines thing.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
That if VJ.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Edgecomb is ready to contribute next year and can grow
into a key part of like a trio with Maxie McCain,
and we're still gonna have to have these fit conversations.
There's still a lot of boxes to check and go
down this pathway here, but I do think it is
possible that that could be accomplished there. That's something that
could change the each of the Sixers franchise that yes,
you're still invested one hundred million plus per year with

(49:05):
Joel Embiid and Paul George, You're still committed to this
win now timeline, needing to go for it because who
knows how many seasons that you have with Joel Embiid
and who knows what Joel is even going to look
like the next time that he steps on the floor.
But financially you are committed and for all these get
off the contract trade Joel Embiid start over. Good luck
in that conversation, who's signing on right now based on
everything we know given the circumstances to pay Joel Embiid

(49:27):
seventy million dollars four years from now? He feels if
that feels like an insane risk to take on, because
it is, and every organization sees those inxane details in
the exact same way that the Sixers do. That there
is no way that other organizations don't see this exact
same situation playing out and feel afraid of that. The
Paul George conversation is different, and I know I mentioned

(49:48):
that it was kind of shot down the reports of
them looking to get off his contract right before Mark
Henry Junior popped up to take that from Maury's perspective
once again, is that what sense does it make to
give up assets to still get worse. That, yes, Paul
George has not been what they hope for from his signing.
That yes, it's true he likely will never be the
max version of the guy that they did sign, but

(50:10):
he's not a guy ex actively hurting the Sixers team.
And if you won't we want to equate everything that
did go wrong with the Sixers last year, Paul George
is pretty far down on that list. So I get
the frustrations with how everything went. To me, it makes
no sense to trade a guy at his low point,
especially when there's gonna be no return. That Paul George
is not gonna harm this roster in a way that
it isn't worse just keeping him around, even if it

(50:31):
is just to allow another year to come off that
contract and then be a bit more tradable in the
future before the short term. I do think that there's
a chance that this threading, this two timelines vision could
have worked, and for all the skeptics, primarily the Golden
State Warriors fans who ultimately did not succeed in this
that they had obviously the era of success and they
got four championship rings on their finger. So I can't

(50:52):
exactly be throwing stones here, But where things went wrong
was making the wrong decisions on players, not the wrong
concept that they're very much much was a world where
you could have had these two timelines and two eras
or two different levels of competition of the of this team.
Where things went wrong is you selected James Wiseman. Second, overall,
that Moses Moody wasn't a hit that they needed him

(51:13):
to be. John and Kuminga ultimately did not proved to
be exactly the guy that they hoped he could become.
And I'm very curious to see how that situation solves
itself this offseason here. But that was the problem there
is It was selection in players. It was not the
actual concept itself. Let's hope that the results for this
six years team are a bit better.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Now we're going to take a.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Quick break on this side, but I got to get
into a little bit of Philadelphia Phillies conversation on the
other side. Going to circle back to some six years
talk as well, but I want to talk about this
Phillies team. It is feast or famine right now that
after three total runs in three games against the Houston Astros,
they put up thirteen last night against the Braves, including
eleven in the first three innings. There is some outfield drama.

(51:54):
There is some Rob Thompson questions. There is some prospect
questions that we got to get into. So I want
to touch on everything about the Phillies on the other sides.
Make sure you're keeping it locked right here on the Gambler,
be back talk with you soon.

Speaker 5 (52:05):
If you can.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Wager on it, we're talking about it. It's the Gambler.

Speaker 7 (52:14):
What then.

Speaker 9 (52:18):
If you want to go into a rib with me
the dream if you want to know, told me stuff
in the club on a late night and ride. Look

(52:40):
then trying to start something real nice looking for loose
short and so I can take home.

Speaker 5 (52:45):
I can take home.

Speaker 9 (52:46):
She could be eighteen eighteen with the attitude the nineteen
gotta started.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
I can real ruse who was told you do you.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
Know the song? You know the song?

Speaker 8 (52:56):
Can come and tow me up the dance floor and she.

Speaker 5 (52:59):
Can keeping in that.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
I think the last video of someone never I'm good.

Speaker 5 (53:02):
I tell them no, I mentioned this was thirty six.
I like the waves and I like those stylus stones.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah, we're back for the final stretch here on Fox
Sports the game. They're apologize for a little bit of
an extended delay, extended break. They're a little inside baseball
and the tricks of the trade for the setup for
mobile broadcasting for next weekend. We got a little bit
of a scheduling conflict here at Fox Sports the Gamblers,
so we'll be learning a new trade here. But nonetheless,
we want to get into wrap up here.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
With some Phillies talk.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
And the Philadelphia Phillies are an interesting baseball team. Man.
Once again, they went three runs in or one run
in three games against the Astros to drop eleven in
three innings last night against the Braves, a rain delay game.
But nonetheless, the question that I want to bring up here,
the biggest thing that I want to discuss about the
Phillies is why are they not treated a bit more

(53:51):
like the Sixers. And I know the immediate pushback here
will be, well, they've gotten beast in the second round,
they've been to a World Series, they've had some semblance
of playoff success, which is true, I can deny that
but has this team not underwhelmed to an extent? And
I don't mean I'm talking about this year. I mean
I'm talking about the big picture, because let's go through
the postseason trends, the postseason history of this Philadelphia Phillies team.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
So obviously we.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Remember this whole era being designed around Bryce Harper, bringing
him in as the big ticket free agent, the guy
who can be the face of the franchise, and boy
has he been everything of everything about that and more.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
But then what happened once.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
They started getting good, once they did make the additions,
the Nick Castianos, the Kyle schwober Is, the making additions
to the pitching staff. Here that they first cracked the
playoffs in twenty twenty two in this era, and let's
not forget that they were a pretty bad baseball team
during that stretch, that this was not a team that.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Was leading the league.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Looked like they fully made that leap here, and as
I pull up their exact record for that specific season
once again, twenty twenty two is when they first saw
their first semblance of the postseason. The record of the
twenty twenty two regular season eighty seven and seventy five,
not something that I would say motivates a ton, and
they get on the wild card and let's not forget

(55:05):
from our guy, Jimmy SIGs Geene Sigura a little just
normal ground ball a second to end up squeaking through
and starting that entire momentum. But ultimately the Phillies defeat
the Saint Louis Cardinals two zho in the wild Card.
Then in the Divisional Series they beat the Big Bad
Braves three to one in that series there to continue progressing,

(55:26):
and then to the NL Championship Series knock out the
San Diego Padres for to one. Didn't really stand a chance,
and then they get to the World Series where they
fell in six games to the Houston Astros.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
They cruised.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
They went from no playoff experience with this specific cores
to leaping right into the World Series, making the World
Series being two wins away from crowning their second their
third title in franchise history. There it didn't happen, though,
and then they come back into twenty twenty three and
they made some changes, made some additions that they're really
going for it now. Went nineteen to seventy two in
the regular season and get to the postseason once again,

(56:01):
have to fight out of the wildcard once again, and
what happens. Then they beat the Miami Marlins two nothing,
No worries there. Then they beat the Atlanta Braves three
to one series in the NL Division Series, and then
they get to the NL Championship game the Arizona Diamondbacks.
And this is where I think the tides sort of
turned in this era of Phillies baseball because what went
down in the NLCS. Did the Phillies jump out win

(56:23):
Game one, five to three. Zach Wheeler gets the wins,
Zach Gallen gets the loss, Our boy Craig Kimberl getting
a save in that game. Then Game two a ten
to nothing victory by the Philadelphia Phillies dominating the Arizona Diamondbacks.
So they were whooping Merril Kelly all around that baseball diamond.
Then Game three we travel out to Arizona and we
get the legendary quote from Garrett Stubbs, the triple A catcher,

(56:46):
that he is right there saying, yeah, if we win this,
we know where the pool's at. We're making a B
line for that pool out there in Arizona. And boy
did that make its rounds now to interject a bit here,
with all dude respect to Garrett Stubbs.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
This is a little bit of benchful talking like starters.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
But at the same time, there was way too much
made about that quote, way too much made about that quote,
and that was zero point zero percent of the reason
why they ultimately went on to lose that series. It
also should not factor in whatsoever to what the outlook
is for the catcher now. I know Rafael Marshan has
been given the opportunity this year certainly has not seized
the chance in the way that I think we all
hoped in the Phillies included would be the case there.

(57:22):
And I wouldn't mind giving Stubbs another look here that
I think, frankly to call a spadas fade. I think
he's a better catcher than Rafael Marshan, and I think
that should be what matters most so, even if he's
got some mattitude, even mos to chirp that he is
this locker room energetic presence who might speak of it
too much there, I can live with all those characteristics
and bring the ViBe's guy back. I don't think they
make the move now, but I do think that's something

(57:42):
to keep in mind as we get closer to the
real postseason conversations. But I bring that up to say
that they travel out to Arizona with the two zero
series lead and drop Game three. Arizona Diamondbacks win two
to one. Craig Kimberl was the guy that blew that game.
Then Game four, the Diamondbacks punchback once again get a
six y five vic three. Great Gibral blows it once again.
And then Game five, the Phillies come back on top

(58:04):
a six to one victory. The horse, Zach Wheeler on
the mound gets the job done. Game six, the Diamondbacks
punch back a five to one victory, and then in
Game seven the Arizona Diamondbacks win four to two to
go to the World Series. There then what happens the
following year? And I guess to stick on that Diamondback
series my equation from here, from the Phillies' perspective to

(58:26):
a sixers comparison, that felt a lot like the Atlanta
Hawk series to me.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
And why do I say that?

Speaker 2 (58:31):
We all remember the fateful Atlanta Hawk series where Ben
Simmons passed up the dunker, the fearful shop, locking, Trey Young,
flying across the lane and Ben Simmons couldn't go up
and jump with them. All six foot one of Trey
Young and all six foot eleven of Ben Simmons there
couldn't go up with it. And that was a moment
that broke Ben Simmons. But it did not only break
Ben Simmons, it broke the Sixer franchise man because following

(58:52):
that moment, then we saw Doc Rivers steps to the
podium and was asked ken Ben Simmons be a championship
point guard, to which Doc Rivers, the poet that he is, replies,
I don't know. And that's a sort of set in
the wheels for motion for the breakup between the Ben
Simmons and the Sixer situation there as I equate this
to this Phillies organization. While I don't think there was

(59:13):
anybody going through the mental yips or struggles that Ben
Simmons did do during that time frame there, I do
think there was a bit of a missed opportunity because
the season prior, when it was the loss in the
World Series to the Houston Astros, I could sleep at
night with the stans of if I want to be
honest here, I feel like the Astros or the better
team that that was a baseball team that if they

(59:35):
play one hundred times, I don't think the Phillies win
fifty five or fifty one of those. But the Diamondbacks, man,
I just don't feel that way. I feel that that
was the chance for them to maximize and ultimately the
Texas Rangers went on to win the World Series that year,
and that was another one where the Phillies that should
have been their moment. And then we flash forward, we

(59:57):
get past that season and look towards last year.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
The Phillies get dog walked by the New York Mets
three to one in the Divisional Series. This coming after
their best regular season record. They went ninety five and
sixty seven last year. That is their best record since
twenty eleven. But it was all for nothing as the
Mets came in took our launch money. Then what happens
this offseason? So we know that the Phillies were not

(01:00:22):
good enough last year, that they took a step back
from the past two seasons.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
So what do they do?

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
They signed Max Kepler to a ten million dollar contract.
They traded for haesus Lozada and that's about it. Yes,
they took a couple bullpen swings. Jordan Romano, the experience
that he has been There's a couple of minor moves
that you can point to here, but that's essentially it.
That they believe that this formula they have, this core
that they have is good enough. We just have to

(01:00:47):
keep trying. We just have to work the margins. But
is it because what happened? What do the Mets do
in that series that ultimately they beat the Phillies? There
they advanced? What did they do this offseason? Just handed
out seven hundred and fifty million dollars to one I
think seven hundred and sixty four million to be specific there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Now, I am not a Wan Soto guy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
I've been quite expressive and still stand by the guy's
one of the biggest losers in professional sports, and I
do believe that he will never win a significant thing.
I know he's got a World Series ring on his finger.
It's tough to fight this argument, but I'm still gonna
do it. Here a guy that carries himself in the
way that he does, I don't think it's a plus
from an organizational standpoint. I'm glad that the Phillies stayed
out of the wan, so too mix, especially at that
price point, because we're gonna have to pinch pennies and

(01:01:26):
fight to pay Kyle Schwarber, who will get I don't know,
maybe one eighth of that payment, one eighth of that
price point there. He's certainly not getting seven hundred and
sixty five million. I don't even think he's getting Trade
Turner money at three hundred million there now. Granted, Kyle
Schwuerber is underpaid right now. He made eighty million dollars
twenty million per year, which based on today's market where
power is at a premium, particularly on this Phillies team,

(01:01:49):
where Kyle Schwarber is the only hitter to be on
pace for over twenty home runs, yes, twenty home runs.
That he's the only hitter that is expected to reach
that margin. And there have been factors. Bryce Harper has
been hurt. Who is tied for second on the team
with Max kap Learn with Nick Castianos there or tied
for third. Excuse me, Trey Turner is the guy that

(01:02:09):
is in second place there and shout out to Trey Turner. Well,
I've been quite critical of this is the first season
that I've seen the vision with him that this is
the guy that we believed we paid for.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
This is four straight games where he's let off with
a hit. He's had two home runs last night.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
There's a bit of a power resurgence, I would say,
And it does feel like every single game that he's
gapping one and get into second base. The defense has
been better of late, to give him credit, and that
will continually be what irks me the most about Trey
is this maddening for a guy who isn't quite what
I wanted to be offensively, is not even close to
what I want him to be defensively.

Speaker 6 (01:02:43):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Again, to be fair to him, he's been better of late,
and I gotta keep rolling with those punches here. But
were any of these moves needle movers from a playoff
perspective for the Phillies. I think we have to look
ourselves in the eyes and say, no, But what is
the lesson from last year? Is the lesson that you
went all out in the regular season and that you
won ninety five games in the regular season and then

(01:03:04):
flamed out in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
What is the lesson there?

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Is it that you put yourself in the right position,
and things just went wrong at the wrong time, that
the badge just went cold and there's nothing that you
can do about it. Is it that nothing matters into
the playoffs and you can get hot like they did
in the World Series?

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Run yere.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I don't know how to compartmentalize this Phillies team. The
starting pitching is good enough. That is the one thing
that we do know that you won't find a better
pitching staff in baseball, including the Los Angeles Dodgers. Put
him on the table, put him in the conversation here,
that tell me how that touches. A five man rotation
that includes Zach Wheeler, that includes Christopher Sanchez, includes hayseus

(01:03:39):
Lozardo who's been straight up filthy except for two starts,
includes Rangers Suarez. Aaron Ola will be an interesting conversation
when he does return to the mix here. And obviously
that's the guy who's been the dude on this Phillies
team for quite some time, a guy who's been far
more productive and far just better for the organization than
he gets credit for. It that you won't find the
very many pitchers in the leagues, in the league that

(01:04:01):
just eat up two hundred innings per year in the
way that Nola does now. Granted he's likely to be
off the mark for that this year with the rib
injury and ankle injury that he has dealt with here,
but the most important thing is that they get him
right at this current point, I think the biggest takeaway
is a beginning, A little bit of an injection of
life is what this organization needs, and where we saw
some of that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Auto Kemp Welcome to the big leaguess. Brother.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
He got his first career home run last night and
I love that otto. That was his eighteenth game of
the major league level. He's ready, that ability to push,
that ability to have energy, to be this youthful movement
and not one of these guys that are so set
in their ways that if we're gonna call a spade
is paid here. If there's one fair critique that I
think is legitimate about the personality of this Phillies team,

(01:04:43):
and I think that is what is infectious that when
I say what is different about the Phillies to the Sixers,
I do think it's the personality that I don't think
people get as fired up for Joel and b lumbering
around the court and grabbing his knee again, and all
these type of things will receive the bad version of Dwell.
I'm sure you can counteract that, and I think they
are actively counter that with the Tyrese Maxis, the Jared mccains,
the VJ. Edge Coombs, that the emotion that these guys

(01:05:05):
are gonna bring. But when comparing that to the Phillies,
we love that they're barking to the dugout, that they're
pouring water on each other. They're having fun, they're competing,
they're about what we want them to be about, and
they're winning baseball games at a high level. That's been
why they've been attractive here. But if we want to
keep it honest, the bad side of that is this
sort of air of arrogance that pops out at times

(01:05:26):
that the team feels like, because we're better on the
back of the baseball card, we're just gonna win these
baseball games. Man, we can show up. We can be
the Philadelphia Phillies. I'm Nick Casianos, I'm gosh well bron
Bryce Harper that when I'm there to play, it ends
up in positive results.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
And for the most part that can be true.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
That when you're lining up against the Colorado Rockies, the
Chicago White Sox or Pittsburgh Pirates on a regular basis,
you're gonna feel prety good about those odds. But is
it when you're playing the Mets, the Dodgers, the Braves,
the guys that want to win the National League as
a whole, the guys that want to be World Series contenders?

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Can they leap into that type of category?

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
I don't think right now we can honestly look ourselves
and say yes, and are they going to be in
the mix?

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
And to give a quick peek at what that's looking
like from an odds perspective, that I do believe the
Phillies are considered one of the top contenders. And to
lay out the exact odds to win the World Series,
shout to DraftKings Sportsbook here as I pulled this up,
that the odds to win the World Series, the Philadelphia
Phillies are ultimately to win the championship. They are fourth

(01:06:26):
in odds that it is the Los Angeles Dodgers at
number one plus two to fifty five yea DraftKings Sports
Game sports Buck, the New York Gang's number two at
plus six hundred, the Detroit Tigers elite there at plus
seven hundred, and the Philadelphia Phillies at plus nine hundred
directly tied with the Mets for fourth there. So the
odds makers believe this Phillies team is going to be
in the mix, but they have some serious questions to

(01:06:47):
address coming into this trade deadline.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
At the top of that list is out in the outfield.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Now. Did I believe leading up to this point that
most of this conversation would be brought into the bullpen
for sure? That Jose Albarado really hurt this team? Man,
I love Jose. I will root it for Jose when
he returns to the field. I have seen some of
the crazy takes on Twitter that this guy is so selfish.
I'll never root for this guy again. All that I'm
not there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
I love Jose.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
I'm being on Jose again, the most beamed up player
in the league, and I will We'll lie. When I
first saw that that suspension brewing here, I was like,
are we sure he didn't just pop hop for coffee here?
Because this is a guy that allegedly drinks twelve espressos
per day. The most beamed up guy in the league.
He wears it on his chest. He's got coffee tattooed
on his body here. I love Jose, but those eighty

(01:07:31):
games really hurt him, man. And beyond that, what hurts
the more is that Jose Alberado will not be available
for a playoff perspective. When looking at the bullpen overall,
the top end leverage guys, I still feel pretty fine
about that. Oriyan Kirkring has been pretty excellent for this
Phillies team, despite what the conversations that people want to bring.
And he's been throwing some really tough spots with runners

(01:07:51):
on having to pitch out of jams, all these kind
of things. And let's not forget how rapidly this guy
was skyrocketed to the majors and thrown into the mix.
From playoff perspective, he made three regular season starts before
he was asked to pitch in the playoffs during hit
his rookie season. There's those are huge shoes to be
thrown in. Match Drum has taken a bit of a
step back from last year, but I still believe in
match s Troum. I still think we know what we're

(01:08:13):
getting with Strom. Specifically there Jordan Romano, I don't think
he's the answer by any means, I don't think he
can be the closer by any means, but that's a
guy that can be a part of this bullpen picture.
Tanner Banks a guy that I believe has stepped up
in a major way since the Alvarado signing. He started
the game last night, pitched two strong innings there, and
he's been a dude that I think is completely fine
from a bullpen roll.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
But that's pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
That there is not this this guy that we can
rely on on a night to night basis that we
believe we're getting to. There's not this clear blueprint through
the bullpen in the way that a successful team should have.
They have to address that, but I think the bigger
need ultimately does come out to be the outfield. Now
what do we have in the outfield right now? We
have right field? We got Nick Castianos, and for Casi

(01:08:56):
specific it's been a fine year that he's been okay.
And to lay out his stats exactly for how he's
producing on the season, that looking at Nick Castianos about
on average here that overall this season he is slashing
Looking at his numbers two eighty two, three, twenty four
and four to forty five, all pretty on par with
what his time during the Phillies have been. Looking at

(01:09:17):
last year's he slashed two fifty four to three eleven
and four to thirty one, So, if anything, a couple
notches higher on both, he does have a negative point
three war. There has been the defensive loves and we've
also seen a little bit of Nick Castianos and Rob
Thompson beef there. Now, what happened with that that Nick
Castianos was subed out a game for a defensive reason?
Rightfully so, because we can keep it one hundred here
that Nick Castianos, while I admire that he's one hundred

(01:09:40):
percent effort, he's going to give you everything that he's got.
What he's got is just not quite an adequate defensive
right fielder. Now, I think we should be fair to
him that win, factoring in when looking back at what
he brought to this Phillies team that he came in
in the era of we're just bringing guys that are
gonna mash baseballs. That's the tactic. That Nick Castianos was
a designated hitter before coming to the Phillies. Did he

(01:10:00):
either learn right field on the fly? And I'm sure,
there was a background there to an extent, but he
was a designated hitter for a reason there, and he
ultimately has figured things out that that little slide and
grab has become a staple of his game. He's okay,
he's a fine defensive right fielder, but it's certainly not
immune from being taken out in late game situations to
benefit this defense. But we got a little bit of

(01:10:21):
beef from Nick cossianis that Rob Thompson said he was
out of line. It was inappropriate the comments that he
did make. Then we got centerfield situation. Do we have
a centerfield situation because we have Johann Rojas, who, if anything,
we want to be honest with it here, I think
is regressed from what we saw from him last year.
The look at rojas stats directly on the season not

(01:10:42):
too great here that ultimately our guy Johann batting two
nineteen a two seventy one ops there a slugging percentage
of two ninety seven, not what you want to see,
and in fact each number is a career worse for
johanns So yes, he is regressing. This is a guy
who in his first season at the major league level
hit three zero two. Then last season with a larger

(01:11:04):
sample size there, of course, three hundred and sixty three
played appearances, played at one hundred and twenty games, slash
two forty three, two seventy nine three twenty two A
six oh one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Ops there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
I'm not saying that I think think that Johann Rojas
kind of developed to be a capable or average MLB hitter,
But it's just got to be a bit more than that, man,
And I think beyond that the maddening side of the
Johann Rojas conversation. And I've been I've been on Rojas Island.
I've been a Rojas guy here. But the manning part
about it is I can put up with a lot
of this stuff if you just don't do stupid stuff.

(01:11:35):
And unfortunately Johann Rojas does stupid stuff. He could run
a million miles per hour. Dude, still camp bump though
he's going to just drop one in the outfield like
he did last night, one that he's seemingly lost in
the lights.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Dude, if you're.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Gonna be a defense first guy that you were the
cure to the Phillies defensive issues, you got just got
to be able to do that consistently man, And there
is certainly a range of fly balls that he can
catch that is special there that when he has one
of his premiere plays, his high highlight plays, it is awesome.
It is a guy that very few players can make
those type plays. But they don't happen a regular enough

(01:12:08):
rate for it to be putting up with the rest
of the baggage right now. And that's just the way
that things is. And I think we should also recognize
that when Rojas was first brought on to be a
significant part of this Phillies team, he was way more
necessary than is currently the case at that point Nick
Cassianis and right field Kyle Schubert and left field two
of the worst corner outfielders defensively that you could possibly

(01:12:28):
have in the MLB. That you need a guy like
Rojas that can eat up a million miles, that's not
really the situation anymore that we have Max Kepler sitting
in left field. And speaking of Max Kepler, he opened
his mouth this week as the latest unhappy member of
the outfield.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
And what was he upset about?

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
He was as his biggest challenge so far this season,
as we were passed the first way point. And you
know what, Max Kepler, his biggest challenge so far was,
according to him, it is not being able to stay
in his routine and be an everyday baseball player. Said
he was promised the left field role and the organization
has not backed that up. Well, Max Kepler, my message
to you man is show why that there is nothing

(01:13:05):
the organization wanted to see more than him to go
out there and grab that left field job completely by
the neck and take control. That has not happened. That
straight up has not happened. And for Kepler specifically, when
he's at his best, you can see the vision. There's
a little bit of pop to his back. That that
is a guy that if things are working for him,
you see the vision. But too often they have not

(01:13:27):
that his stats on the season, sitting two thirteen at
the plate that improved. He was two zero nine when
I was fired up about this yesterday, three h four ops,
three eighty three selugging percentage, his fifty one hits, fourteen doubles,
nine home runs, and twenty eight RBIs. And for this
conversation about him not getting regular enough, it bats him
not being in the rotation of the everyday starting left fielder.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
The Dud's played seventy three of possibly eighty two games.
You've missed nine games.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Dude, you are seventh on the team and at bats
that is plenty of sample size to evaluate who you
are as a baseball player. And I think the unfortunate
evaluation there is you're just not quite the guy the
Phillies need him to be. Now, is that Max Kepler's
fault or is that the Philadelphia front office? I think
that's a valid question to ask, because, in fairness to
Max Kepler, this is essentially who he's always been, that

(01:14:13):
this is his box quarter, this is his baseball card
for who he is, his baseball player. And I think
this theorization that you can take a guy out of
a spot, throw him in the pressure cooker of Philadelphia,
and then you can get.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
More out of him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
It's a bit of a flawed logic here. Now you
could use Hasu's Lozardo as a bit of an example here. Now, granted,
Lozardo showed far more significant high flashes than I would
think his fairness assessed about Kepler. Kepler basically having one
outlier year in which he, you know, hit at a
very great rate, and to pull up the numbers from
those seasons here. This is all the way back in
twenty nineteen. His twenty nineteen he put a four point

(01:14:47):
zero war his next highest in his career two point
eight or he had three point five the year prior.
I apologize, but his best season he had thirty two doubles,
thirty six home runs ninety RBIs he slashed two fifty
two three thirty six five nineteen slugging percentage his next best, Like,
we'll stick with a home runs. His thirty six home
runs that he had this year the next most that

(01:15:07):
he's ever possessed twenty four. That's twelve less there, he
had ninety RBIs the next most that he's ever produced.
Sixty nine would be the answer there. Even the slugging
percentage seting at five to nineteen for that twenty nineteen
season in which he was in the All Star mix
A guy that like looks legit here that his five
nineteen slugging percentage the next highest that he's posted for

(01:15:27):
twenty five about one hundred points slower. He posted an
eight to fifty five ops that season. His next highest
eight sixteen was that that great of a season was
that who Max Cupler was or was it the other
seven years of his career. I think we got to,
you know, accept a little bit more of the data
that the larger sample size may be reigning true here.
I don't think Max Keupler is a bad baseball player

(01:15:48):
by any means, but I don't think he's a guy
that elevates this roster, that he improves. And the problem
with how these conversations are tied is you don't feel
the weight of johannro How struggling to level. If your
left fielder is raking and to the same breath, you
don't feel that Max Kepler is not this top end
producer from a bat perspective. If your center fielder is

(01:16:09):
borderline competent at the plate here, but they are tied
together and you cannot separate those because they are one
team here. And then Brandon Marsh now, to his credit,
brand and Marsh has sort of been tearing the cover
off the ball lately.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
But what is the fix for this Phillies team?

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Because I think we should be honest and assessed that
these outfield options with those four guys as the primary spots,
none of them are the answer. Now, you can also
make the case Outo Kemp has been one of the
beneficiaries of facing left handed hitter, which Kepler has never
been able to hit once again dating back to before
the season. And also weird by the way that the
Phillies have refused even called a platoon that while Kepler,
I don't think he has quite a fair point here,

(01:16:47):
because again he's seventh on the team and at bats
he's played like he's had twice as many at bats
as Johann Rojas. I get that he should be hitting
more than Johann Rojas, and Rojas should really be close
to the last on the team in that conversation, but
if we're talking about lack of opportunity, you gotta get
over yourself, man, because that's just not accurate in that case. Now,
I bring this up to say, as we approach the
trade deadline, there are some significant questions be asked within

(01:17:10):
this Phillies team. Do they truly believe we are one
outfielder and one arm away from being legitimate World Series contenders?
They've also been so tight and been so overly cautious
in giving up prospects, I would say, and sure you
can spit examples here. They trade Logano happy to get
Brandon Marsh. I think the unfortunate reality there is Brandon

(01:17:31):
Marsh is more of the problem than giving up Logano
Hoppy that Marsh I think is fine, But I think
it's fair to assess that like Marsh and Kepler, to me,
both feel like guys that at their best or fourth
outfielders that could fill in a little bit of those roles.
I don't think we really have a third or maybe
even second outfielder. If we're going to bring in that conversation.
Casianus is fine in right field. We're getting what we're getting.
The bat has been fine. He absolutely nuked a home

(01:17:53):
run last night, which was great to see. But we
know the defensive concerns that come with it. In left
field and centerfield. One of those positions just has to
be inadequate.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Back It just has to that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
They have too many platoons, too many hopefuls, too many
question marks for this team to honestly look themselves in
the mirror as contenders. Now, they're good, they're going to
be in the mix, but if they want to climb
that World Series hill, it's time to get serious right now,
and that decision needs to be made between Dave Dombrowski
of is now the time to dig into my treasure

(01:18:23):
chest of prospects? Because that is all that I've heard
about Dave Debrowski since before he came to Philadelphia, double
d that he's taking these big swings, he wants to
be in the trade mix, getting stars, making those big
time moves. He's going to empty your farm system. And
none of that has been true whatsoever. That he's been,
if anything, too overprotective of prospects here.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Now this could all be worth it in the long haul.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Maybe these guys that he's being overprotective of, the Justin Crawfords,
the Aiden Millers, the Andrew Painters here, the guys that
are very clearly untouchable should be Maybe that is the
case here. But a guy like mckabel, what does he
fetch in the open market these days? Any out that
we can talk into. I've seen the monitoring Lewis Robert.
I'm not in on Lewis Robert. That guy hasn't been
a good baseball player and over a calendar year at

(01:19:07):
this point. But are there other anams that you could
get in the mix here? The Ranger Suarez conversation gets
interesting to me. This would break my heart. I'm a
Ranger Suarez guy. I want him to be on this
Phillies team for as long as possible. And I also
do know the part of the Dave Dombrowski stance is
that moving some of these starters to the bullpen is
just automatically going to fix these things. Ranger Suarez is

(01:19:27):
a clear cut option for that, as he's obviously done
it before. We've seen this guy pitch some of the
highest leverage innings for this Phillies team in the biggest moments.
But looking at him this year, it feels like Groundhog's
Day all over again. That we talk about all these
other guys that uh, Aaron Nola is that dude hasis
Lozardo coming into push Andrew Paynter up next, And then
it gets about midway through the season and Ranger Suarez

(01:19:48):
is just their most consistent pitcher. And I know Zach
Wheeler in a little bit of a different category there,
but a guy that's just gonna get through it, it's
Ranger now. Projecting forward to this offseason here, I don't
know if I'm Ranger Suarez sticking around, and in fact,
if you made me make a prediction right now, I
think it is far more likely that he fetches a
major contract from another team than resigns with the Phillies.

(01:20:09):
And if you are Ranger, I get you might like Philadelphia.
They're the team that gave you a chance, but this
also is your time to get paid. Man that this
is a dude who came over for nothing. This is
his window. This is his opportunity to get that big payday,
that one life changing payday that so many athletes talk about.
This is the opportunity for Ranger Suarez. He's got Scott
Boris representing it. I can't imagine that he's going to

(01:20:31):
be cheap on things, and I think he should to
be honest, like this is his time to strike while
the Irons hot. But with that said, what is the
role that has promised here in Philadelphia? Why would he
stick around because Christopher Sanchez is under contract Aaron Nola,
we gave a long term extension to so two more
years of Zach Wheeler, h Hayesu's Lizard of they traded
for obviously believe in and will be giving some sort

(01:20:52):
of extension too that they will be signing him. I
can't imagine that the Phillies would have traded for him
without a belief that he will be sticking around. I
believe he has one more year of arbitration eligibility.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
There.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
Then that fifth spot here is that Ranger Suarez. But
what about this guy Andrew Paynter that we continue to
hear about and hear about, and frankly, the Painter conversations
I think have gotten out of control. That I think
the guy's a very good prospect. I'm excited for what
he could be for this Phillies team. But I think
there is a sub section of Phillies fans that are
viewing him as like the missing piece this year. I
think that's just setting everyone up for failure. Man for

(01:21:25):
Andrew Paynter in particular, I don't think those are fair
expectations to throw on his shoulder. A guy that has
not once pitched at the major league level, a guy
that had to spend two seasons away from pitching as
you recover from his Tommy John issues, and only has
pitched a handful at the minor league level to this point.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
It's going to be a process, is my message there.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
But the Phillies have also been consistent that maybe towards
the end of the summer, we can start getting Painter
some looks with the real team, give him an MLB
call up, and I'm curious where he slots into this
because they've been very consistent that they want him as
a starting pitcher. My personal fix to all these conversations
that I think are tied together is why can't Andrew
Paynter pitch out of the bullpen? And I get the
pushback about his routine keeping him in the same sort

(01:22:07):
of just process of going about his business that they
envision him as a starter for the future.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
This is why I say the bullpen makes sense is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
For starters, it's weakness on the team that we can
acknowledge that that is a point of need. Number two,
Entrewpainnter throws hard that this dude has the stuff that
will play in the bullpen, and that is not true
of all starting pitchers. Aaron Nola is a guy that
I would throw out there that when we start to
do these roster decision crunches for who is starting games here.
Nola is for sure one of the best pitchers on

(01:22:35):
this pitching staff, but he kind of has to stay
in that starter's role that this is not a guy
who I think stuff does translate if you shift him
to the bullpen. That is how I view Aaron Nola
entre painter, not the case here. The other reason that
I say that it makes sense is not only does
it help the team, but it just is a clear
pathway to giving him MLB opportunities. I don't know how

(01:22:55):
many I see from him from a starting pitching standpoint,
Like this is a jam pack staff. So if you
want to get Andrew Bayner the most opportunities and help
this team, why not give him an opportunity there That
will be the Phillies call there, but will be very
interesting to play out. But I bring up Ranger Suarez
in this conversation because I struggle to see where all

(01:23:16):
these pass the line that it feels like to some
end there is a conflict that there's going to need
to be a decision made. And I do wonder, as
Dave Dombrowski is tight lipped on his possession of prospects
that he is not willing to dig into the future
to help the now, can you help the now by
moving on from the now? And would that involve a
potential Ranger Suarez trade that continues to bounce around my head.

(01:23:38):
I don't want it to be the case. I far
more would rather go down with the ship. As it
pertains to Ranger that even if he does walk away
this offseason, I'd rather enjoy this postseason battle with him.
But that is something that as I try and sort
through how can they make this all work, that is
something that I circle back to. I also do want
to bring up Justin Crawford here. We've been desperate for
outfield production and Justin Crawford has yet to receive an opportunity. Now,

(01:24:01):
that's telling to me for a couple different reasons here
for starters, if the Phillies believed he was ready, he
would be in the major leagues right now. If they
believed that he had an opportunity to help this team,
or was MLB ready at the time, he would be
at the major league level. That I think it is
somewhat as simple as that. But it is strange to
me that a guy like Johann Rojas was accelerated up

(01:24:24):
to the majors, throwing a clear path and at a
rapid rate, that he got that opportunity, that a guy
like Crawford, who is producing offensively at a far better
late rate. You can make some defensive arguments. He's far
better in left field than center, is what I've heard
about Crawford there.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
When we're doing this injection of new blood. We're seeing
the impact that is being made Byttle Kim. Why not
give the young guns a chance to push these old heads,
to give a little bit of youth to this experienced roster,
this stuck in our ways roster. I think that is
all positive for anything, but I do wonder that when
we get to the postseason this year much is on

(01:25:00):
the line. I think a lot, and I think a
lot for a couple different reasons here. For starts, there's
some roster decisions to be made. It is not just
Ranger Suarez. We're talking about Kyle Schwerber, about a free agent,
and that is a dude that is certainly due to
be paid as well. Nick Castiata is heading into the
last year of his contract. Bryce Harper getting a year older,
two more seasons, love Zach Wheeler, and then that will
be the end of his pitching career. The time is

(01:25:22):
not the window is not open forever here and then
if they do lose, what's next for this Phillies team,
because it's tough to just talk yourself into walking things back,
running it back with the same roster that is taking
steps backward here and to that same breath. What does
this mean from a fandom perspective, do the Phillies fall

(01:25:44):
into the six years conversation of wake me up when
you get past the second round, wake me up when
there are some changes made it's not working, because I
feel we're a lot closer to that than many people expect.
I did not feel the same level of passion in
last year's postseason, which they were bounced by the Mets.
In that first it did feel like there was something
to it. I hope that is not the case, and
maybe they win a World Series this year and everything

(01:26:06):
is viewed in more positive light. But I think to
take those steps to legitimately put yourself in that sort
of situation, it's going to take a pretty strong deadline
approach to get that job done. So a lot still
to unfold from that time. We're pretty much gonna be
winding down on here. I didn't want to wrap up
with a couple more six here thoughts. Here just shout
out to this organization for finally seemingly doing things right,
seemingly taking the character approach, being willing to take the

(01:26:30):
guys that in the long run will be best for
the organization.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Will VJ. Edge come be the best player in this draft?
Maybe not.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Am I confident that for whatever the extent of his
career is in Philadelphia, people absolutely love supporting the guy.
I am confident in that, and I will take a
guy that I believe in to maximize himself whatever that
top end version of himself is far more than a
question mark. And that is exactly the decision that Darrel
More made.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
So VJ.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Edgecomb Welcome to Philadelphia, young man. No more living off
a generator for you, and cannot wait to see how
this hunger translates on the court. Here. Shout out to
Darrel moy for crushing it at the draft as usual.
Shout out to you guys for listening to this little
show here. Mark Henry Junior will be back in action
with us next week. I likely we'll be in for
the second half of the show. We got some moving
parts to figure out behind the scenes, but appreciate you

(01:27:17):
guys for tapping in and rocking with me today. I
know Mark dropped some takes for the draft, Appreciate him
for him for popping on. We got plenty more to
get into. We're be hopping over to Fox Sports Satellite
for the rest of time here on Fox Sports The Gammer,
so make sure to keep a lock.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
We'll be back talk with you next time. Tough cover country,
Let's ride.