Tough Cover Show: NBA Finals, NBA Draft, Phillies, and More - 06/14/25

Mark Henry Jr. and Sean Barnard talk NBA Finals as the Thunder knot the series against the Pacers 202, Sixers targeting Dylan Harper, Phillies finally finding footing, and more!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand. The new
and improved Iheard Radio w z A S and w
D two seven three D Philadelphia is Fox Sports Radio
the Gambler.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Let you want to talk right down to that and
the language that everybody here can easily understand.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
The pity. Let's person Naty all us.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
And Tannedy.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm the coach, don't coach anality, the coach on personality,
the coach personnality on.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
You sneaks the sun.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
Only here that.

Speaker 6 (01:49):
Hello and welcome to the Tough Cover Radio Show. I
am your host, as always, Mark Henry Jr. You can
follow me Twitter at Mark Henry Junior, NFL and on
the other side on the ones and twos. Back in
the studio at the iHeart Radio Studios, we got my guy,
Sean Bernard in the in the stunner shades with the

(02:12):
brand new shirt that he's rocking.

Speaker 5 (02:15):
Could have hit different last night played out.

Speaker 6 (02:18):
A little bit differently, but we're gonna get into all
of that. We got a lot to talk about when
it comes to mostly basketball. Gonna be a heavy basketball show.
Obviously NBA Finals last night, some hot and heavy NBA
NBA Draft rumors and NBA trade rumors out there, and

(02:38):
I think that there's an interesting conversation that we had
about the Knicks head coaching search and how I think
due to the embarrassment that they've suffered they might have
they might end up at the right place.

Speaker 5 (02:51):
They might end up doing the right thing.

Speaker 6 (02:53):
I think obviously you see the you see the hat,
you see the shirt. We're gonna talk some fields as well.
They seem to have gotten things back on track for
as weird a series as it was with Chicago Big
to take two of three on the road against one
of the better teams in baseball. So regardless of how
it looks sometimes, I think we're back on track, at

(03:18):
least with not hating this Phillies baseball team. We're going
to get into that. We got some picks as well.
But it's start anywhere.

Speaker 5 (03:25):
But Game one of the NBA Finals last night, right, Sean.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
Bernard, Absolutely and a great game.

Speaker 5 (03:32):
A Game one I don't even know what happened in
my brain.

Speaker 7 (03:35):
Yeah, Game four pretty electric. I for all to talk
about the ratings, the small markets, whatever. This has been
an excellent NBA Finals straight up. All four games, well
three out of the four games have really been excellent
here and I thought last night fit the bell so
the biggest quarter of Shay Gildess Alexander's career by a
comfortable margin.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Here.

Speaker 7 (03:50):
This was an opportunity to the Pacers, had them on
a ropes, had a chance to take this series by
a stranglehold, but ultimately the Thunder found a way to
fight through a grown up, mature victory. But I'm not
about the Indiana Pacers, Mark Henry Junior. I think they
got a real chance of winning the NBA Finals. We're
down to a best of three series and I'm giving
some real thought to taking a flyer on them.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
To win it all.

Speaker 5 (04:10):
What are they right now?

Speaker 7 (04:12):
It was in the plus four hundred. It's something I
looked at it earlier. Let me pull this up exactly
to get the numbers here. And by the way, like
from start to finish, the odds makers have been outright
disrespectful of the Pacers in this series. Have found a
nice way to kind of get in the mix for
two money line and plus fourteen is the number or
plus four to fifteen is the number for the Pacers
to win two of the next three. Is what we're

(04:33):
sitting out right now that still feels insanely disrespectful to me.

Speaker 6 (04:38):
I think they needed last night. I think this feels
like a seven game series. And when it gets to
the seventh game, Okay sees a different team at home
as compared to on the road.

Speaker 7 (04:50):
And I don't know, Indiana has already won one one
in Oklahoma City.

Speaker 6 (04:55):
Yeah, they won one on a miraculous comeback, and then
the other game is the only blowout of this series
in Oklahoma City, Whereas when Oklahoma City won this one
in Indiana, it was a really close game the whole
way and they fought back and took it in the fourth.
That doesn't feel as it feels like a different type
of victory. But I think, Okay, see, he's the better team.

(05:18):
We know that Chase the better player. They're better at home.
If this gets to seven, I find it really hard
to believe Indiana is going to win that game seven.
But that doesn't mean they can't win the next two games.
It's just if you won last night, Indiana was I
think probably gonna win the series. I think their likelihood

(05:39):
to win the series went from if they won that
game probably about sixty five percent sixty percent, And I
mean the odds makers, they're telling you plus four point fifteen.

Speaker 5 (05:48):
They think it's probably like.

Speaker 6 (05:50):
A I have to plug that in the implied odds calculator,
But I think that's probably around a twenty percent chance.
I probably would give them more of like a thirty
five to thirty chance. Whereas if they won last night,
I think they, you know, sixty to sixty five percent chance.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
That's a huge swing and win probability of.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
A series definitely.

Speaker 7 (06:09):
And like even before last night, the Pacers were plus
two twenty. I think the number was to win the
NBA Finals, while up to one like that is insane.

Speaker 5 (06:17):
What do you think the number would have been if
they won last night?

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Mmmm?

Speaker 7 (06:20):
It would it would definitely have to shift to minus
for the three to one definite kind of thing. I
minus two hundred maybe. I don't think it would be
steeper than that.

Speaker 6 (06:29):
I was gonna say like minus one sixty. Yeah, in
the front it would have been like plus one thirty
plus one forty.

Speaker 5 (06:34):
Something around that.

Speaker 6 (06:34):
But yeah, I mean that's a huge shift, like minus
minus one sixty to minus two hundred to plus four fifteen.

Speaker 5 (06:43):
I think that says it all right there about just
how big last night was.

Speaker 6 (06:47):
And you know, I don't even really want to assign
blame to the Pacers on losing that game. I don't
think that that was the fault of the Pacers. I
think that was the MVP and currently the best player
in the world showed up in Shake Gilds as Alexander.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
That part is certainly true.

Speaker 7 (07:05):
What I will assigned blame to and what I do
think was self inflicted from Indiana's perspective is they've built
this beautiful brand and like excellent efficiency of being this
team oriented basketball team, and they went to the let's
hunt Chet Holgrin and play isolation down the stretch. Now, granted,
I think like some of these victory laps on Chet's
defense are a little crazy to me. Honestly, I can
live with all three shots they got in these and

(07:27):
it's obviously a make or miss league that if they
hit those. We're talking in a very different tune about
this entire series right now. If Miles Turner Doc knocks
down that three, or nem Hart hits that step back
er Haliburton does an airball to three, I don't mind
the shots that they came out out with all that,
but that's just not Pacers basketball that they've kind of
torn this Thunder defensive part, with the ball movement, with

(07:47):
getting everyone involved, with not being independent on one guy.
One of those possessions, there was not a single pass
in that entire possession in that final two minutes there.
That can't happen if you're the Pacers. That isn't how
you got to this point. And I do think that
they have to wear a little bit of that risk fonsibility.
But the overall takeaway, You're absolutely right, it's shake goes.
Alexander's a superstar and he proved that on the biggest stage.
He was, by the way, zero assists last night, the

(08:08):
first time since the Bubble that he's had that, the
first time since Jerry West in nineteen sixty five that
a player has had thirty five points and zero assists
in an NBA Finals game, which is pretty absurd stuff there.
But ultimately I give Shay the credit there. He was
excellent last night. The Thunder need him to be a star,
and he absolutely was. Guys like Caruso stepping up this
Thunder team is as legitimate as we all kind of

(08:29):
knew it was.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
Yeah, I again, like I don't want to take anything
away from Indiana, and I've been higher on Indiana than
I think most people start for a long time here.
But you can't lose Game four at home when you're
up to one and o case he shoots three of
sixteen from three.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, yeah, that is tough to swallow.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
Three of sixteen from three and twenty twenty five is
crazy to read for a winning team.

Speaker 7 (08:54):
What do you read into that most I think the
volume is the most telling thing to me below beyond
just the efficiency, Like getting sixteen three pointers in this
year of basketball is absurd there. Do you give that
more of a credit to Indiana for the way they're
chasing off the line and defending, or do you think
that's an Oklahoma City thing?

Speaker 4 (09:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (09:11):
No, I mean, okay, see, like I think if they
did commit to shooting more threes, they would be better,
Which was funny to say about a sixty eight win team,
but I really do think they could.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
They could use somewhere three point shooting, not even the
player wise, just shoot it more.

Speaker 6 (09:27):
But yeah, I think Indiana is doing a great job
running them off the line, forcing them to go inside.
And I mean, I hate to be like box score guy.
I watched the whole game, and we you know, we
can dive into certain players and obviously there's a then
mather In conversation to have after the last two games,
what a what a roller coaster?

Speaker 5 (09:47):
But I think you can simple it down to.

Speaker 6 (09:50):
Haliburton and Miles Turner shot a combined one of thirteen
from three. You know, Nie Smith shot two of nine
from the field. This is he had Matherin go what
was it from the line, five of eight from the line,
but three big misses at the end of the game.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (10:07):
And on the.

Speaker 6 (10:09):
Other side you had Alex Caruso go seven of nine,
score twenty get five steals. Like it felt like that
was Shay and Alex Caruso taking that game from Indiana
while Miles Halibert and Nie Smith just couldn't hit that
shot to get them back in it and to get
them you know, back over top on it.

Speaker 7 (10:30):
Yeah, definitely there Ben Matherd man, I'm a Benedict Matherin guy.
I've always liked them, and he was excellent in game three,
twenty seven points like a huge reason why they were
able to win that game. There he managed to commit
like every single possible mistake that you can in like
the span of two minutes when checking into that game
in that fourth quarter there, from the off ball foul,
the missing free throws, just like a complete disaster of

(10:53):
a stretch for him. So tough to see, as you
mentioned the roller coaster, because it is tough because he
was so excellent in Game three and that twenty seven
really powered that Pacers offense. But yeah, that was an
absolute mess last night and really kind of I wouldn't
say that fully cost him the game, but it certainly
didn't help.

Speaker 6 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean they don't win that Game three without
him for sure. Yeah, I don't know if it cost
him the game, but it took it took away their
chances to win the game. Yeah, that's like the I
remember I used to That's how I used to describe
like the defensive holding in the Super Bowl with the Chiefs.
It was like people wanted to say it cost them
the Super Bowl. I didn't think that was necessarily fair
because of the situation and the time, and they still

(11:31):
had to go do it, but it took their win
probability from I don't know forty in that Super Bowl
to zero percent in that Super Bowl. That was kind
of the same thing with what Matther and did at
the end of the game. I don't know if they
would have won if.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
He made those free throws and didn't make a dumb foul,
but I know that they once he did those things,
the game was over.

Speaker 7 (11:50):
Yeah, I've also seen a lot of referee chatter on
the timeline. I know it was the the extender was
in full effect with Scott Foster there. I didn't think
it was as egregious as people are making it sound
like watching it, it didn't. There were certainly some nitpicky
stuff for some like off ball fouls going up for
rebounds that I thought were unnecessary, but I didn't think
it was like a horribly refereed game whatsoever.

Speaker 6 (12:10):
I didn't think Obi got the flagrant right. I didn't
think that should have been a flagrant. But I think
the altercation after it probably like hurt that argument, I think,
which you could also say like Hertenstein started that and
like went up and touched Topping for him to shove them.
But yeah, I don't think it was like the worst

(12:33):
flagrant I've ever seen or anything.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
I didn't.

Speaker 6 (12:36):
I think in general, we need to we need to
hire the bar up the bar for a flagrant foul
I think some of the fouls this playoffs that have
been called flagrant fowls, yeah, are wouldn't have been called
fouls fifteen years ago, like flat out, like not not
wouldn't have been flagrant fowls, wouldn't have been regular common fouls.

(12:57):
And then there's also times where there was a right
after that that big bruhaha where I think it was
I think it was Jalen Williams went to the paint
and he got clobbered and they didn't call it anything
like either way. So there's there's just very little consistency.
Darryl has talked about this. He talked about it on

(13:18):
the Ricky. He called it the mm NBA referees, which
I was surprised to hear him get so animated animated
about that. But on the other side, then the flagrants
get called, So it's it's hard to kind of rationalize
some of the officiating stuff.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
But in general, I didn't think that was really a
factor in the game.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, No, I didn't really either.

Speaker 7 (13:39):
I do think the Thunders probably got if you want
to sort through the miscalls or the where the where
things favored a team, I do think it leaned more
to the Thunder yesterday, but I certainly don't think that
was something that was the reason why they won the
game or anything like that. But uh, I mean, so
you think Indiana fully blew the chance of winning the
NBA Finals by losing last night's.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
Game, not fully?

Speaker 6 (14:01):
Like I said, I think they went from like a
sixty to sixty five percent chance to like a thirty
to thirty five percent chance. I think they went from
they would have won the series too. They're probably not
going to win the series. I'm not going to say
it's over. I think that'd be dumb with this Pacers team.
But I will say, if it gets the Game seven,
I think they have like a ten percent chance to

(14:21):
win that game. I think they need to win Game
five in Game six if they want to win the series.

Speaker 7 (14:28):
The only thing that I'll kind of and I think
you're that those are all pretty fair. They're the thing
that I would point out about last night that for
most of that game while watching I didn't feel good
about it from a Thunder perspective. That it wasn't until
the fourth quarter that they finally snapped into things. There
was a good stretch of that game where I'm like,
this is the most rattle that I've seen this Thunder
team all year. Like the offense doesn't look clean. There's
there looks like they're kind of stepping on each other's toes,

(14:50):
they're not getting to the right spots, they're not It
just didn't look like the Thunder for that, And I
do think that's a credit to the Pacers. I think defensively,
they deserve more credit than they've gotten for how much
they thrown this elite team off their game and really
kind of played their brand of basketball to an extent.
So I think there is a world where for starters
in Game five, the Pacers punch right back and can

(15:10):
take a serious lead. And if that is the case,
then we're talking about coming back to Indiana where things
get really you know, it's gonna be a similar atmosphere there.
So I'm still kind of open minded on this Pacers team.
The more I think about it, the more I digested,
I think four plus four to fifteen odds, that's where
it taking a chance on right now.

Speaker 6 (15:26):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's too those are
crazy odds. I do think the Pacers will win Game six.
I think the problem is okay, see probably wins the other.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Two gotcha at home.

Speaker 6 (15:38):
But I'm trying to think if there's anything else we
didn't hit on in this game.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
You mentioned hit Yeah, I thought she was really good.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (15:46):
Best game of the series, for sure, best game of
the series for Chet for sure.

Speaker 6 (15:51):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Jalen Williams stepped up. I thought,
even without making any three's in the game.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (16:00):
I mean, Pascal just continues to have like twenty and
eight and five and it's like, oh, he was that
good in that game, Like it didn't feel like it
never feels like he takes over I guess I mean
six to six or fifteen not not efficient. We talked
about the other guys out there. TJ McConnell had his
big moment in Game three that was incredible to see

(16:23):
in the NBA Finals.

Speaker 5 (16:24):
I always talk about.

Speaker 6 (16:25):
This on Twitter, but I wanted Scotti Wilblkin on the
roster in twenty fifteen, and so did most of NBA's
or started most of six or Twitter at the time,
and they kept TJ McConnell and Scotti Wilburkin went and
played overseas, and here TJ McConnell is ten years later
on his third contract.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Swinging NBA Finals games.

Speaker 6 (16:45):
He was the guy they followed to the locker room
at halftime of an NBA Finals game, elect cutting to
like video of his parents and grandparents, Like it's pretty
unbelievable stuff.

Speaker 5 (16:59):
Really happy for Tea and he's the reason beyond anything
that I'm rooting for this Pacers team.

Speaker 6 (17:05):
I mean, he was good in limited time there, eighteen
minutes in game four, he was fine, but certainly wasn't
the story that he was in Game three where he
was doing the grand theft McConnell's.

Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yeah, they call him grand Theft Almarado, but TJ owns that.
So that was awesome to see.

Speaker 6 (17:24):
Let's take a break and on the other side, we'll
switch it over. We'll stay on the hardwood. We'll talk
a little Sixers, We'll talk a little Dylan Harper. There's
been some rumors this week about this is potentially moving
up to the second overall pick with san Antonio Spurs and.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
Selecting Dylan Harper.

Speaker 6 (17:43):
So we'll hit on that, break it down from every angle,
from ours and from san Antonio's.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Right after this, back here on the Top Cover Radio.

Speaker 6 (17:51):
Show two, the Tough Cover Radio Show, just talk all
things NBA files thunder Pacers.

Speaker 5 (17:58):
Heading to Game five all tied up white. When's that game.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Friday or Monday?

Speaker 5 (18:05):
Sunday?

Speaker 4 (18:06):
Monday? I believe?

Speaker 6 (18:08):
Wow, that's why did the NBA do that where they
completely avoided the weekend?

Speaker 7 (18:14):
Is I've hated the scheduling like kind of across this
entire finals, But I'm pretty sure it's Monday.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
In fact checking myself, Yeah it is.

Speaker 5 (18:20):
I just found it Monday eight thirty. Why is that?

Speaker 6 (18:22):
That's that's insane. Why would you go Friday night for
a game into Monday. Why wouldn't they just go Saturday
into Monday or Friday into Sunday?

Speaker 5 (18:33):
Makes no sense.

Speaker 7 (18:34):
That's and no Saturday on the previous like they skipped
it to have Sunday last week instead of having to
get that.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
That's fine.

Speaker 6 (18:41):
I understand the Sunday Saturday and Sunday Sunday is actually
a better TV day, So I understand that at least.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
But bizarre, bizarre hate it.

Speaker 6 (18:54):
Yeah, Friday Mondays. Wow, that's bizarre. But let's switch it
over to the stuff it really matters. The end be
a draft four R seventy six ers. There has been
a lot of rumors, actually, I guess we should go
to like the timeline of the rumors before we get
to the biggest one. Jake Fisher, someone who I had

(19:15):
my worst professional interview of my podcast during a radio
career with a fun fact for the people out there.

Speaker 5 (19:22):
This was like way back.

Speaker 6 (19:24):
I don't think I've ever told it on air, but
when I used to do the podcast with Kyle Pagan.

Speaker 5 (19:30):
And we interviewed, Kyle got us great guests really.

Speaker 6 (19:34):
Early on This is all the way back in twenty one,
and we got Jake Fisher on and it was during
the Ben Simmons holdout situation after the Hawks series, and.

Speaker 5 (19:47):
I from what I.

Speaker 6 (19:48):
Remember on that interview, Jake wouldn't answer anything. He just
kept like sitting on the fence and being like, well,
you know this could happen, or you know that could happen.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
And I threw out, well, gun to your head, what
do you think is gonna happen? He went gun to
my head? Whoa man?

Speaker 6 (20:05):
And I was like all right, and I like crawled
into a ball for the rest of the interview.

Speaker 5 (20:10):
But so I root on his downfall. So when he
got multiple draft picks wrong last.

Speaker 6 (20:15):
Year, I was like, there you go, fake sources and
I also have like a best friend of mine who
I forget what piece of news Jake Fisher reported about
the Sixers that ended up being like really wrong and
false and we did something completely different. But ever since then,
he's been like praying on his downfall even more than me.

(20:36):
So anytime he puts out anything my friend sends in
our group chat, like the tweet with a message, like
like when he's put out like the VJ stuff, he's like,
it's the sixer. So that's that's our bit about Jake Fisher.
Probably a long long walk for a small drink of
water there. But anyway, Jake Fisher puts out an article

(20:57):
where he uh and by the way, one more thing.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
On Jake Fisher, but you really don't like Jake Fisher.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
Not a fan, but one more thing.

Speaker 6 (21:07):
I think he tries way too hard to be like
the oh, I'm the insider, but like I'm a normal.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Dude people's insider.

Speaker 7 (21:17):
Is that his thing that he says that, Yeah, yeah,
I think that's his substack name.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
I'm pretty sure I.

Speaker 5 (21:22):
Actually didn't know that.

Speaker 6 (21:24):
This is just based on him like trying to tweet
out like serious, I'm gonna I'm gonna put it up
on the screen. Actually, I can't believe this is now
turning into like a Jake Fisher.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
Air out hour for me.

Speaker 7 (21:37):
Just just to clear my name slightly. No problem with
Jake Fisher personally.

Speaker 6 (21:42):
I should have probably should have probably ran this by
just in case there was a friendship there, But I don't.

Speaker 7 (21:49):
Know, don't have any relationship, don't have any problem with it.
I'm fine with staying that way.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
Deli's audio for you, Mike.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
Jake Fisher has muted me. I think this is what happened.
But Sean Brace likes this stuff.

Speaker 6 (22:09):
I know he he loves the inside the insider stuff.
But I'm gonna share my screen here.

Speaker 5 (22:16):
With Jake Fisher tweet the.

Speaker 6 (22:18):
Other day that I thought was really strange. He tweeted,
I don't effing know what Janice is gonna this is like,
So he tweeted out an article basically being like, Jannie
is probably staying. The teams are acting like he's staying, right,
No problem with that, that's probably accurate. Yeah, And then

(22:38):
he tweets out because people started aggregating it. He tweets out,
I don't effing know what Janice is gonna do. I
don't think he does. I don't think the Bucks do.

Speaker 5 (22:47):
I know Milwaukee's operating as if he's coming back, so
other team's got to do that too.

Speaker 6 (22:52):
I hope he can still update fans without the stuff
getting blown out of proportion. Then what was the point
of sharing the information if you don't I don't want
people to take the information? Why did you write an article?
So you want to write an article so you get subscriptions,
but you don't want people to take the information from
the article and report it as news, even though you

(23:13):
are reporting.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
It as news and a rumor. I think that's I
think that's pretty pretty backwards.

Speaker 7 (23:20):
Yeah, I do think that's certainly an overreaction in this
case here. I think, like what I guess the link
connecting this is, it's like the aggregation space that we
currently live in with the NBA Central and Legion hoops
and all that stuff is I think what they take
specific issues with. But there's certainly times where like this applies,
and there are times where those guys nitpick are kind
of slant things in ways that they don't report. I

(23:40):
don't remember the specifics of this one. In this case.
I think that's probably his larger point. But do agree
with the overreaction, and it's more.

Speaker 6 (23:47):
About just like the I don't defen know, like Woes
and Shams aren't tweeting them.

Speaker 5 (23:52):
Like I get that he's not WOJ Shams, but like,
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (23:55):
It's hard to take you seriously when you're getting draft
picks wrong and then you put out an article and
it's like.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
I don't ever know well what I just wrote about. Like, sorry,
big weed guy too.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
Jake Fisher. Huh, he's a big weed guy too.

Speaker 5 (24:09):
I know, and that's it's shouts out to him for that,
but also uh. One of my gripes with Jake Fisher
was when the Eagles won the NFC championship, he tweeted
out a picture in the stadium, like smoking a blunt.
Cool stuff, but like if you want to be like
WOAJ and Shams are smoking blunts and Lincoln Financial Field

(24:31):
in the twentieth row.

Speaker 7 (24:32):
Like how funny would be if if Wog posted a
video of him doing that.

Speaker 5 (24:38):
I met on the Wells Fargo Center floor.

Speaker 6 (24:41):
He was holding one of those old composition books black
and white, like speckled kind of kind of cover from
elementary school.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
Thought that was funny.

Speaker 7 (24:52):
Yeah, I met a Sean's out in Vegas for a
summer league.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
Yeah, yea.

Speaker 7 (24:56):
He the way I would describe him, like we were
on the casino or it was just kind of like
a bunch of people hanging around meeting talking, which I
just kind of want to be in the mix of
all that. There, he's just like constantly scanning and looking
of like all right, who do I need to talk to?

Speaker 4 (25:08):
Whatever?

Speaker 7 (25:09):
He was fine, Like I had like a very brief
interaction with him, just like sugar his hand, blah blah
blah blah. But like that was my impression. He's just
like all right, who's here? Who do I need to
talk to? Blah blah blah, which is probably how he
lives life.

Speaker 6 (25:21):
Yeah, that's what a stressful, stressful, stressful life, which is
why I feel like you just have to and people
are gonna disagree with this, I think, but you kind
of have to.

Speaker 5 (25:31):
Be like all in on that life, like that kind
of has to be like.

Speaker 6 (25:36):
Yeah, Like that's why I kind of have an issue
with like the half in, half out, Like.

Speaker 8 (25:40):
I don't even know what you're just gonna do, and
that you have to be like married to the information
game and like not tweet out that Miami Heat or
drafting Jerry McCain with the fifteenth pick.

Speaker 6 (25:55):
Oh wait, crap, it's where I'm sorry, y'all. Sorry, I
had to get that off my chest. Jake Fisher, but
he did have a report. VJ. Edgecombe visited the seventy
six Ers had to workout Tyrese. Maxie flew in for
the workout, or at least was at the workout. I
don't know if you flew in specifically for it. That's

(26:16):
kind of up for debate, but.

Speaker 7 (26:18):
Which I thought was interesting. You didn't seem to from
our art text interaction.

Speaker 5 (26:23):
About Joelle not being there.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
And Maxie specifically being there.

Speaker 6 (26:26):
Yeah, married with kids, I think the summer means a
different thing once you're married with kids.

Speaker 5 (26:32):
Joel's I don't think.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
I think there's probably also some rehab stuff going on
with Joel that is different than whatever. Maxi's just playing
free runs and probably coming back, and I'm sure that
he is coming back for another reason other than just
that would be my guess, especially when Vj's working out
for Utah.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
So what that tells me is that.

Speaker 6 (26:54):
He didn't get a promise from the six Ers at three,
else he wouldn't be working out for five.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
So I am.

Speaker 6 (27:03):
Choosing to believe that maybe Maxi was coming anyway to town,
or maybe Maxi is just more willing to come for
all these events. Maybe he'll be at the ACE one.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
I don't know. It'll be interesting, but I.

Speaker 6 (27:17):
Don't I wouldn't put I guess maybe you could say
put stuff into Maxi being there, but I wouldn't put
anything into Joelle not being there.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
Okay, that's fair and for what it's worth.

Speaker 7 (27:27):
Like, I'm not theorizing, like you know, there's friction between
Joel with this or whatever. I guess the way I
would phrase it, if if it was important enough to
the franchise for Joel to be there, I think Joelle
would be there, Like if that is something that they
make clear to him, I think that happens. I do
think it's interesting that Maxi's seemingly starting to be put
in like the driver's seat of the face of the
franchise type positions here, like being in these meetings. I

(27:50):
do think it's a big deal for Maxie and he's
earned it. Like, don't get me wrong, I don't. I'm
not criticizing that this is the case, but I do
think it's kind of a little bit of quicker pace
of this starting to happened then I sort of expected.

Speaker 6 (28:02):
And I mean, we'll talk about we could we could
debate if you, if you're who you would rather trade
between MAXI or McCain, if you if you want, because
for me, it's one hundred.

Speaker 7 (28:11):
Percent MAXI, Yeah, I do, and I see or I
see that the same way, and I don't want to
trade either. For the record here like but if we're
having that conversation, I'm gonna keep sticking to my hot
take that I very much think Jared McCain can end
up the better basketball player out of the two of them.

Speaker 6 (28:25):
Yeah, and even if he ends up the same, he's
on a rookie deal for a couple more years younger.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
There's a lot of reasons to I think that on
McCain of form MAXI.

Speaker 6 (28:34):
I don't think Darryl sees it that way based on
comments on the Ricky and he doesn't. He didn't make
it seem like McCain has a chance to start really
if Groms comes back. So a lot of stuff to
kind of parse through there. But right after that, and
part of that report is that this Sixers love VJ

(28:54):
and haven't had a schedule a scheduled work out with Ace,
and they only really like the top of the draft.
They There was also part of that report that said
that the Sixers would either draft.

Speaker 5 (29:06):
A player or trade back those those are the options.

Speaker 6 (29:11):
And then but funny enough, then there was another report
that came out that refuted that, So you can swing
that either way.

Speaker 5 (29:18):
I was making fun of Jake for it being obvious.
It would be even funnier if that report was just wrong.

Speaker 6 (29:24):
But anyway, then immediately after that, an hour later, I
don't know, this is PR cleanup and I'm curious to
get your idea. About an hour later, Jake Fisher tweets out, justin,
Ace Bailey is scheduled for a workout this week in Philadelphia.
What do you make of how that news played out?
Do you think that the Ace thing is a PR thing?

(29:45):
Do you think that that was probably on the books?

Speaker 5 (29:47):
Anyway? What's your read on the situation there?

Speaker 7 (29:51):
Yeah, I think my read as a whole kind of
taking this out of who the Sixers are specifically selecting.
I do think VJ probably has more fans in front
office then a specifically that I do think Ace is
like as polarizing a prospect as we've seen, as we've
talked about that, I wonder if they're trying to strike
up a market for if Utah or Charlotte really wants
this guy, then they're gonna have to get up there

(30:11):
and get them.

Speaker 4 (30:12):
As sort of the slant they're taking.

Speaker 7 (30:13):
As far as the ace workout, I do think that
is a PR cleanup move by the Sixers. It happened
very quickly after the fact, and a little inside baseball
here is the Sixers clean house with all their PR personnel,
all their communications staff, all their medical staff.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
This summer, which is really interesting to me.

Speaker 7 (30:29):
Everyone that I've had a relationship or contact with within
the Sixers organization has been fired outside of like the
coaching staff and guys like that now and the players,
which is interesting. My assessment of that is kind of
there was a lot that got out last year that
shouldn't have, and we're not sorting through to see who
the problem is. We're starting over, We're going to bring
in a whole new group, and that seems to be
what is going down right now. So I think they're

(30:51):
a little extra sensitive to stuff leaking. I think that
they're gonna be as tight lipped as possible through this
whole process. But that was an intentional We're not just
letting it be out there that were drafting VJ. Edgecombe.
We're making it clear that all options are on the table.
And that was an intentional league for the Ace Balley part.

Speaker 6 (31:07):
And then I don't know if it was Mike Scotto
or someone else tweeted out that the sixers are only
interested in the top four.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
Scott Scotto definitely had the Dylan Harper report first.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
Okay, I knew that. I thought he had that that
other piece too.

Speaker 6 (31:23):
It might have been someone else that that had that
other piece, and I'll just I'll give a little.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
Side piece here.

Speaker 6 (31:31):
Bodner in the I don't know, this might be like
proprietary information, but in the troilbro dude Discord. Bodner did say,
because everybody when they said that four player thing, we
all kind of assume, oh, Flag Harper VJ eight And
Bontner made a good point.

Speaker 5 (31:51):
He doesn't think.

Speaker 6 (31:52):
Flag would be a part of that because he's so
outside of like he thinks that the four players would
be hard Brace VJ.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
Tray interesting.

Speaker 6 (32:02):
And Trey is still in the in the in the
running and in the discussion, So what do you make
of that? I because when I first heard it, I
was thinking Flag, Harper, VJAS those are the only four
guys they want.

Speaker 5 (32:12):
But when you put it like that, I do think
that makes sense.

Speaker 7 (32:14):
Yeah, I took it the way you did initially that
I viewed that my head of Flag, Harper, Ace and VJ.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
I had never thought about it.

Speaker 7 (32:22):
That's an interesting lens to view it through and something
that I could see being valid there. I also think
it should be noted that just because that there is
this list of four does not mean that they're interested
equally on all four. That there's certainly different levels to that,
which I think sometimes people have misinterpreted that to an extent.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
So I initially took it the first way.

Speaker 7 (32:39):
I'm giving that a little bit of rethought that I
think he could be right about that.

Speaker 6 (32:43):
And I think in general with trading back, people have
NBA draft brain or NFL draft brain. Yeah, a little
bit when it's a seven round draft, and I just
think in the NFL it's much more of like value proposition,
where you know, yeah, and it's such a bigger it's

(33:07):
it's just such a wider selection of prospects, so that
when you're moving down from third to the seventh pick,
just historically in the NBA, you are really really sacrificing
star equity and a chance at landing a superstar and
All Star, All NBA whatever you want to kind of
make that threshold, you're really losing every pick you go

(33:31):
down the board, you're really losing every single chance at
getting a star. And that's why being the higher the better.
And I think Darryl, who is a liar, as James
Harden would say, I think Daryl was telling the truth
on the Ricky and in all those interviews when they
first got the third pick, and he did his car
wash on they once they knew he wouldn't get any

(33:52):
hard questions, he came out and said, you know, picking
this high as a luxury one I've never had. Add
generally speaking, in the NBA draft, the better players are
picked higher in the draft, and you don't want to
You certainly want to just stick and pick. And then
everybody started making up these trade downs. I'm ready to

(34:13):
make an official prediction.

Speaker 5 (34:15):
Okay, the Sixers will be making a draft pick at
third overall.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Okay, so no trades whatsoever. Mark Henrick Jr.

Speaker 7 (34:23):
Says either way, I think that is the most likely
outcome there, and I do think, like for all the
Darryl Morio's a liar conversation, he's one of the more
honest gms that I can ever agree.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Like how public and ford he is with information.

Speaker 7 (34:36):
I really can't think of another like across all sports
a general manager that is as public and as open
as Moriy is.

Speaker 5 (34:42):
And that's why he's a liar.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
That's why people think he's a liar because he says
so much that if he goes back on five percent
of the stuff he says, it's more than most gms
going back on eighty percent of the stuff they said,
because he's just said so much.

Speaker 7 (34:56):
Yeah, no, that's a fair point there, But I think
there all gets a worse rep than he deserves for
that kind of stuff. And even like the situation has changed,
and that's when sometimes like his outlook changes there.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
And I don't know.

Speaker 7 (35:06):
Ultimately, I do think the third pick is the most
likely that they sit and pick there. I do want
to dig in a little bit on the Dylan Harper
and Spurs conversation here, So Michael Scotta reported that that
there's been conversations between the Spurs and the Sixers about
potentially moving up to the second pick. When that was dropped,
there was pretty much an immediate confirmation across the board.
Your boy Jake Fisher confirming that Kyle Knubeck, who's very

(35:26):
in the note with the Sixers, the guy that I
think is like the most in touch with the internals
of the the organization.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
I wouldn't say he confirmed it.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
Did he can confirm that there's conversations.

Speaker 5 (35:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (35:39):
I think he threw some water on it a little
bit too, though I could be maybe that was on
a podcast me get.

Speaker 5 (35:48):
I don't think he was as definitive as some of
the people.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
His uh let me find his tweet here.

Speaker 7 (35:56):
As I scrolled through, can confirm via league source that
the Sixers have had talks with san Antonio Apup moving
up to number two in the draft. The Sixers appears
zeroed in on a group of four players at the
top of the draft.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
So I'm selling down trade rumors.

Speaker 7 (36:07):
So I mean, the fact of the matter, what I
would take as confirmation is that there's been talking points here,
There's at least been conversation, and for what it's worth,
like you should explore every option. That's Daryl Moore's job
to evaluate. Okay, what would it take? What is on
the table? How much do we value Dylan Harper? So
to throws to you, Mark Henry Jr. You've zero interest
in moving up.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
It seems it.

Speaker 6 (36:26):
Would be not only a bad trade, it would be
a complete catastrophic disaster if the Sixers moved up and
gave up a limited amount of future resources to position
a strength on your team that is the only strength
on your team at guard I instead, I mean, obviously,

(36:48):
I'm a little bit different because I think as Bailey
is the second best player in this draft. So trading
up to draft what is, in my opinion, a worst player.
Giving up either first round picks from the Clippers are
earned first round picks, which could be terrible depending on
Joel Embiid, or giving up Jared McCain.

Speaker 5 (37:07):
And I'll just fly out say it right here.

Speaker 6 (37:10):
Jared McCain and Tyrese Maxi are better NBA players or
will have better NBA careers than Dylan Harper.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Will I like it? I mostly agree with you and
all this.

Speaker 7 (37:22):
I do want to play a little bit of Devil's
advocate for the sake of it for starters.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
I'm one thousand percent with you that off the table.

Speaker 7 (37:27):
Wouldn't even consider moving Max He or McCain to move
up one slot in this draft for Dyan Harper. Here
to view it through the lens of why I could
see Daryl Moury going through this process for starters. I
do think Dylan Harper is definitely a Daryl Mory guy
that I see what he saw in James Harden a
little bit in Harper. What I mean by that is
the way that he gets the free throw line, the
way that he attacks the paint, and there is like

(37:47):
a very mature feel to Dylan Harper's game as a
freshman coming out of college. If we're thinking worst case
scenario for the Sixers franchise, which is Joelle embiid, the
Joel era is over, he never returns to full strength
to a level that he can play. I find it
really hard to find a pathway to that number one
guy like I as much as we love Maxiew McCain
and still not confident in believing it. I think Dylan

(38:10):
Harper is a safe for bet to be potentially that
number one guy. I'm not he might not get there.
I'm not like the number one Dylan Harper guy in
the world. But that's the that's the thought process I
could see Darryl Morey taking to getting there.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 6 (38:25):
I don't think it should be because Dylan Harper is
a thirty three percent three point shooter right now, and
there's twenty really good guards, and to be.

Speaker 5 (38:34):
A top twenty guard in the NBA, I'd say you
have to shoot thirty six percent from three. Yeah, I
don't know if there is a guy who isn't in
that top mix.

Speaker 7 (38:42):
Thinks jaw, yeah, yeah, job definitely not Josh Shoppolo thirty
plenty times. But he also can jump out the gym
and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 6 (38:49):
Yeah, there's outliers, and I'm not saying Harper can't be
an outlary. Definitely gets to the rim really well. And
there's part of maybe I'm underrating and based on the situation,
just like I think people do with Ace, I would
say he controls a little bit more of that situation
being the lead guard. But yeah, I'm not as high
on harperd the prospect as most because of the shooting

(39:12):
issues that he's not a good defender.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
I don't think he's like a special passer.

Speaker 6 (39:17):
I think he's really good at getting to the rim
and really good at getting to the line. I think
that's pretty much the only not elite skill but good,
like I think everything else is above average to average.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
I think he's a good playmaker. I think he's a
good playmaker as.

Speaker 5 (39:31):
A pass Like, what is he going to average in
the NBA.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Seven or eight assist a game?

Speaker 5 (39:35):
I would say, I think it's like five or six,
six or seven. It's not that different.

Speaker 7 (39:41):
I mean, he averaged four at Rutgers playing with the
squad that he played with there, and I do think
like when you have shooters around him and guys that
can legit play like, those numbers will pop. I also
to put it in the Sixers perspective here, the other
complaint that you can have about Maxie McCain is, Kenny,
did these guys be lead guards that can run an offense?

Speaker 4 (39:58):
Be true point guards?

Speaker 5 (40:00):
Regardless of if like lead whatever they are.

Speaker 6 (40:03):
Ultimately, I think they are both better prospects right.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
Now than Dylan Harper. MAXI is like a forty plus
percent three point shooter.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
What McCain did as a rookie in the limited time,
like Harper. If Harper does what McCain did, people will
be vaulting him to be all MBA by next year.
With Jared McCain, people are like, let's trade him to
move up one spot.

Speaker 7 (40:27):
And I'm not remotely Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'm
out on moving either Maxie and McCain certainly for now.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
I do think the best.

Speaker 6 (40:36):
If you're moving up for Harper, one of them are
gone in the next eighteen months, no doubt about it,
especially Grimes.

Speaker 7 (40:42):
Yeah, I agree with that, but I think it's that's
still a situation where you got to figure it out.
You gotta get these guys on the floor together. See,
because think about I do believe in Harper is a playmaker,
which is I think where probably our vision on him
separates slightly that I think he can be like a
guy that can absolutely run the offense if you have
Maxie McCain running off all running off pinned downs and
shooting those kind of things. And I get defense is

(41:03):
a clear issue here for what you're going to struggle with,
which is going to be a problem, no doubt. But
you can do some pretty special stuff with those guys
running off the wing. And we kind of saw the
best version of Tyrese Maxie when he was playing next
to James Harden, when he was unlocked by a guy
where he could still you know, take guys off the dribble,
beat close outs and that kind of thing, but he
wasn't having to playmake for others and do all these
other kind of conversations. That's still the thought process at

(41:25):
the end of the day. I think I said it's
most likely, in probably the best situation, to just sit
at three and make a pick. But I think that's
where the conversations get to, or where Darryl Mory's thought
process is.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
Yeah, I think that James Harden stuff is insane. The comps.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
I think Caid's better. Kate Cunningham is better.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
To me, Cad was, and I had this to be
the other day. Caid was a way better prospect than
Dylan Harper in my opinion, way better.

Speaker 6 (41:51):
Shot forty from three, dragged the terrible Oklahoma state team
that immediately got sanctioned to U and the coach got
fired and imediately after to like a sixth seed. They
went to the second round of the think it was
a sixth seed they went to like the second round
of the NCAA Tournament one Attorney game. I think Caid

(42:13):
was one of my favorite prospects in the last ten years. So, like,
I just think Harper is on a different level than
some of the guys He's being compared to hard and
shot forty percent from three in college. Also, like, I
think people see them getting to the line and all
that stuff and just want to compare them to other
people who got to the line. But in twenty twenty five,
you have to be a really good shooter to be

(42:35):
anything close to resembling a good to great guard, and
it's just too many of them.

Speaker 7 (42:42):
I wish we had if we could just pick Dalen
Harper and Ace Bailey and just put them on a
somewhat average team to have like a better idea of
what these guys truly are, because I still think it's
a huge question mark. Like and actually, let me just
phrase this as a whole draft question to you. You
and I both kind of dug our heels in on
the Ace Balley island right away here, and I'm still
sit on Acepley would be my selection of four on

(43:02):
the clock right now. I do think my position on
that has softened somewhat as we've gotten closer, and that's
got less to do with anything with Ace and more too.
I see the vision with VJ a little more. I
see what these guys can bring to the table. Do
you see that similarly? Are you still one thousand percent
gung ho on AES?

Speaker 5 (43:19):
I'm just as gung ho on as as I've ever been.
I feel the same way on it.

Speaker 6 (43:22):
I think he's going to end up somewhere on the
Jalen Brown og McHale scale.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
But I've always been extremely high on VJ. I've always
been extremely.

Speaker 6 (43:34):
High on Trey, very high on Malawock, who's probably not
in the conversation, but I have VJ.

Speaker 5 (43:44):
I'm bullish on the jump shot. I think the form works.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
I think he looks how a freakish athlete looks at
eighteen that turns into a superstar in two or three
years from now.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
We look back and be like, how didn't we know?

Speaker 6 (43:57):
I think Trey I said it on our show too
weeks ago or maybe three. I think Trey has the
best chance out of anyone that's not named Cooper Flag
in this draft at becoming a top ten player in
the NBA and becoming a true franchise guy because of
his scoring and shot making ability, which is special.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
So I love Ace. I love Trey. I still I mean,
I love VJ. I love Trey.

Speaker 6 (44:25):
I still have Ace above those guys. If they take
VJ or Tray, I'll be very happy. If they take Ace,
I'll be very happy. Even if you take Harpper three,
I'll be very happy.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
That's not happening. But it's just.

Speaker 6 (44:40):
I don't want to move up and I don't want conkainiple.
That's basically my only two things that I don't want. Now,
there is a part of me I feel like I
had what you just described is like the softening on Ace.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
Then I feel like I had that.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
Going into like like last week, that where I was
really talking about, you know, i'd be really happy with
VJ or Trey, and I still feel that way. Yeah,
But what I would say is there I had a
little like a ping in my brain last week where
no matter what, if you pass up on Ace and

(45:18):
he becomes what I think he's gonna become, I think
you're probably gonna feel pretty stupid because it was the
obvious pick. And I think we are I think people
in general have done gymnastics mentally to make it not
the obvious pick. Even if I like VJ and Trey
a lot, I think the mental gymnastics people have done
on a star unlike any I've ever seen in the

(45:40):
NBA drafts.

Speaker 7 (45:40):
It also is so funny to me just watching how
like fluid, all these conversations and rankings are as. These
guys are the exact same basketball players who have not
played any live basketball in quite some time.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
But that's how the draft always works.

Speaker 5 (45:51):
With that and the interesting the other parts before we
go to break that, I'll say that are are interesting.
At four, apparently Charlotte is in love with VJ.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
At five, Utah wants either VJ or Tray.

Speaker 6 (46:04):
Apparently they are interested in Ace, but that was the
rumor that VJ or Trayer at the top of their port.

Speaker 7 (46:10):
Interesting, I think, and that was sort of my read
on why that this VJ workout even leaked. Like I
do think the Sixers, as much as it's most likely
they just make the pick at three, they're going to
keep all options open that they are going to try
and drive up a market and see if there's a
blow you away off or I don't think it happens,
And I think they make the pick. But I think
there all still likes to play those kind of mind games.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
Yeah, I agree. I can't figure out the exact what
Daryl's trying to do. I really can't. I think he
sticks and picks at three.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
I think he's not sure currently you think so, I do.

Speaker 7 (46:47):
I think he's still sorting through, like I think that's
how his brain works. Is what's the exact calculation. I
don't think he has. This is what we're doing. We're
sticking to it. I think he's going to check every
single box, explore every possibility, and then officially arrive at
the conclusion.

Speaker 6 (47:01):
My last take, and I said it earlier, I think
they're sticking and picking a three. But my last take
there everybody's saying like, oh, well, trading down is always analytically, like.

Speaker 5 (47:12):
The models always favor trading down.

Speaker 6 (47:15):
It's even a bigger thing in football, the analytic gms
always want to trade down.

Speaker 5 (47:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (47:20):
But what I would say is, and there was a
thread about this that kind of crystallized what I was.

Speaker 5 (47:26):
I should find it and give that person credit.

Speaker 6 (47:28):
But I was thinking this and kind of set it
on a trol stream and someone tweeted a thread about how.

Speaker 5 (47:34):
It kind of crystallized what I was saying.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
I think it's easy for us to look at Daryl's
an analytic guy, and we played fantasy football, and we
followed the NFL draft, and it's easy to say, like, oh,
I like these five players, so let me take the
decision out of my hands and give it to them,
and I'll take whoever I get at seven, and I'll
take the extra assets.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
YadA ya yatta.

Speaker 6 (47:57):
That's fine for us to think. If you're an MBA
whose livelihood and job is to steward your franchise and
to find the best guy in a draft, and you
have the third pick, and you have all these options,
and clearly there's top two and then all these other
guys in a group, you should be like excited to

(48:18):
be able to be like, I get to pick my
guy in this group. And I guess what I would
say is I'd be shocked if Daryl traded down, because
I'd be I think each of Ace, BJ Trey, Matelock,
even if you wanted to throw con in this and
other others whatever, they all have enough to fall in

(48:38):
love with. You could fall in love with any of
those guys. I find it hard to believe Darryl isn't
going to fall in love with one of those guys.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
Yeah, I think that's fair.

Speaker 7 (48:47):
I think and ultimately, whatever decision is, like, we will
certainly be told that this is the guy from day one,
that they've been locked in this dude since they got
the draft pick. Whether that is true or not there
but yeah, I mean, each of these guys there is
reasonable belief for why they're going to be excellent NBA
players that can directly change the outlook for the Sixers
franchise and whoever they decide on, hopefully A's Valley. From
this show's perspective, we will be, you know, rooting for

(49:10):
that to be the case.

Speaker 6 (49:11):
And like I said, as long as they don't trade
up and give up the assets to two and as
long as they don't in any form of fashion draft
kN Ka Nickel, and as long as they in some
form or fashion get ace VJ, Trey or Malawok.

Speaker 5 (49:29):
I'll be happy. And I trust Daryl, there's a lot
of if it's a lot of.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
You'll hate it, I'm seeing the.

Speaker 5 (49:36):
Most percentage of the altcome.

Speaker 6 (49:37):
Like if we're saying here's the likelihood of what's gonna
happen one hundred percent of outcomes of what's going to happen.
I think us getting one of ace VJ Trey Malawach's
probably like eighty to ninety percent.

Speaker 7 (49:48):
Yeah, yeah, I know. I think that's definitely true. And
you'll hate to hear this, but I'm seeing the convision
a little bit. I still wouldn't take them at three,
but uh, I do like them quite a bit.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
I the more where you have them on the board.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
I'll be like six. I think six I'm comfortable with.

Speaker 5 (50:02):
It's not crazy.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
Now who then? Who do you have?

Speaker 5 (50:04):
You don't like Trey?

Speaker 4 (50:05):
I don't.

Speaker 7 (50:05):
I don't particularly like Trey. Now that's probably who I'm
lowest on compared to consensus.

Speaker 6 (50:10):
Trey is just has such a higher upside than con
I think if he's more sure thing, probably, But I.

Speaker 7 (50:18):
Think if me and Trey Johnson played one on one,
he's not stopping me every single time.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
That's how bad of a defender he is.

Speaker 6 (50:24):
I think that's exaggeration. I actually I was at ah.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
I watched Game three at a bar in Omaha, Nebraska
with my buddy, and next to it they had the
Texas Texas A and M SEC champions or SEC Tournament
game on on espn U, and we actually it was
so funny.

Speaker 6 (50:44):
We were both joking, like we found ourselves watching the
Texas Texas A and M game more than the first
half of Game three of the finals.

Speaker 5 (50:50):
We went back. We left at halftime, but I actually
walked away.

Speaker 6 (50:57):
From It's one game, but I was he was trying
like in that game, and I think and from watching
that game, another thing I thought was, oh my god,
this team like doesn't have a coach, Like this scene
is just like five players on the floor doing whatever
they want with like no supervision.

Speaker 7 (51:14):
It felt like, by the way, crazy, how many prospects.
I kind of feel that way about this year.

Speaker 6 (51:18):
Oh oh horrible, horrible, It's so funny, Like I mean,
just pulling it up.

Speaker 7 (51:25):
Ace Harper, Trey h I would say Fears, but I
know you like the Oklahoma coach a little bit.

Speaker 6 (51:32):
He's a great coach, is a great coat or Vj's
you know, the good coach Porter Moser.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
I felt like there was mister Jean guy. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (51:41):
I felt like there was a whole lot of just
Jeremiah Fears go make things happen out there.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Whenever I watched, I think that.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
Might be Jeremiah Fears.

Speaker 6 (51:49):
I think that might be Fears, that that might be
what Jeremiah Fears wants to do with the ball.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
But future Brooklyn, I.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
Will say, even like Izzo didn't let Jase Cook until February,
I thought that there was Will Riley like wasn't allowed
to like play until February more than fifteen minutes a game.
Rasher Fleming's being coached by an all time loser in
Billy Lang at Saint Jose.

Speaker 5 (52:19):
Carl Bryant.

Speaker 6 (52:20):
I'm not an Underwood, I'm not a a Tommy Lloyd guy.
But I can't really speak to his he actually, you
know I can. He didn't play, He's got like fifteen
minutes a game, and Timerly didn't play. So yeah, a
lot of these guys just were coached really really strangely.
And then you had Derek Queen, who's coach left in
the middle of his tournament run. But yeah, I mean

(52:43):
I have con eighth or no, I have Conn ninth,
but I understand that, like the guys I have seven
and eight above him, I'm higher on than usual.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
You're not gonna like this the.

Speaker 6 (52:52):
Guy that I'm talking myself in on more than ever.
As we approached the process is caspar as yakashunis. He's
a big I just think the floor is really high
with his with his size as a guard and with
his passing.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
But like, if you want to compare like him as
a passer to Harper, he's a way better passer than Harper.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Yeah, no, that's definitely true.

Speaker 7 (53:13):
He's also like he's gonna average a triple single at
the NBA. I think, like, I think he's gonna be
like a I don't see him offensively. He just disappears,
is really my number one critique of him.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
He averaged sixteen a game over the first twenty five games.
Like I think it felt like that.

Speaker 6 (53:30):
I think we feel like that, especially because of the
last ten to fifteen games of the season or whatever
it was. But the first twenty four games he averaged sixteen,
six and six on thirty four percent from three and
a pretty good percentage from.

Speaker 5 (53:43):
The field if he shooting.

Speaker 6 (53:44):
My whole thing on him is just he shot like
ten percent from three the last ten games.

Speaker 5 (53:49):
If he's a thirty.

Speaker 6 (53:50):
Four percent three point shooter, his size, his defense and
his passing is goran dragic like that.

Speaker 5 (53:59):
If he he's a thirty four percent three point shooter.

Speaker 6 (54:01):
I think he's Gorn Drags and Gorn Rogis was a
really good NBA player.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
That's worth the seventh pick in this draft. Gorn drovers Rogich.

Speaker 5 (54:09):
Yeah, Gorn Drogic is really good.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
Yeah, he was a solid twenty eight. He averaged twenty
and eight.

Speaker 6 (54:15):
No, Gorton Drovich had a Gordon draft. Let's I'm pulling
it up. No, No, I did not think we were
having a Gordon Drogis to pick.

Speaker 7 (54:22):
Oh, he had a he had a run my my
yaka unit is jockey. And his critique here, it's like
the lack of aggression, Like he shot the ball three
times against Wisconsin. He had one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
eight nine ten eleven games with less than ten field
goal attempts this season, which that is crazy to me.

Speaker 5 (54:41):
He got MVP VO in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. Gordon
came in sixteen.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
That's insane.

Speaker 6 (54:47):
He averaged he averaged twenty and six that year, but
he did it on on fifty fifty forty seventy six
two years later. The next year, he played on multiple
teams average like sixteen and five in sixteen seventeen. This
is the year I was thinking he averaged twenty and
six again on forty eight forty shooting like twenty and

(55:14):
eight was wrong.

Speaker 5 (55:15):
He's more like twenty and six those couple of years there.

Speaker 6 (55:18):
But he was like sixteen to twenty five six assists
per game, really really efficient without turning the ball over.

Speaker 5 (55:25):
From like twenty twelve to twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
His numbers are better than what they were in my head.
I won't lie to you.

Speaker 5 (55:33):
First, he was a guy I always really liked.

Speaker 6 (55:35):
I always really liked Goren and he was a big
fantasy like always like a sixth seventh round guy you could.
He was always steady, stayed healthy, like I always liked Goran.
So when I when I came up with that comp,
I was like, oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 5 (55:49):
I would love Goran Rodgers, but shout out to Goran Rogs.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (55:53):
Wow, I'm a little bit surprised by those numbers. I
guess like the late years of him sticking around kind
of diluted my memory. He made me one All Star game,
and then I guess that's probably what it is, is
the end of his career when he was just kind
of a backup point guard type guy for a while
is why I was stuck in there. But yeah, Jahgoring
jogis man, no hate, I just uh, I guess I
was unfamiliar with your game to that extent.

Speaker 6 (56:13):
I think he was good on that first heat, ye,
Jimmy he was at first Jimmy run even as a
bench benchesh guy, And.

Speaker 7 (56:19):
He was good, like even as a bench guard, like
he was an impactful player. I just didn't think the
numbers were that that lofty.

Speaker 6 (56:25):
Yeah, no, yeah, he's He's one of those guys who
I think has been forgotten to time a little bit,
for sure, But I think he was always kind of
like the tenth to fifteenth best guard like, which would
be probably like twentieth to twenty fifth now. Yeah, but
it's also like if he averaged twenty and sixth, then
he would average like twenty three and seven now, just

(56:45):
by like the natural tempo of progression.

Speaker 5 (56:48):
But anyway, let's take it.

Speaker 6 (56:50):
And also the other guy I'm just buying in on
as we get closer to the draft, I'm I'm I'm
going back in on Jase, like I don't care. Like
I lowered into like ten or eleven, He's back up
to eight for me. I buy everything about this guy. Like,
the thing I keep coming back to is just Tom
Izzo does not play freshmen, so similar to Jerry McCain,

(57:13):
where Like I was just willing to bet on all
the intangibles and all of the behind the scenes stuff,
and I think I still think whatever Jerry McCain's like, physical, athletic,
whatever basketball player ceiling is, I think he's going to
hit that. And I kind of feel the same way
about Jase, Like for Izzo to be convinced to not

(57:35):
only play a freshman, but to then make him pretty
much the lead card or at least the lead scorer
on your team and the go to guy and the
cluck at eighteen for a guy who wants to have
twenty three year olds in that role, I think it
says a lot about his work ethic and everything that
he had to do with behind the scenes to convince
Izzo to let him play.

Speaker 7 (57:56):
Yeah, definitely there. I'm not gonna fight you on Jason.
I like Jays quite a bit. I wish he was
a couple of inches bigger, would certainly change my perspective
on him. I don't think he ends up going that
high and probably slips into kind of a mid first
round guy. But uh, a team that would be nice. Yeah,
Orlando's an interesting team this offseason, so I'm very curious
they got to They gotta make something happen down there.

Speaker 6 (58:16):
They need him or Wall maybe maybe Niek, but like
they need a guard who can shoot the Garland.

Speaker 4 (58:23):
What there is Garland interest you at all?

Speaker 5 (58:25):
Well?

Speaker 6 (58:26):
I think that injury is probably Garland trying to stay
in Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
Yeah, you're probably right.

Speaker 6 (58:32):
I think that was how I read that, but I
could be wrong. Let's take a break on the other side.
Why the Knicks may have landed. I don't think I
could say the A word, but but backwards into the
right decision, which is what I think the Knicks are
gonna do.

Speaker 5 (58:49):
I'll tell you why coming up after the break.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
If you can wager on it, we're talking about it.
It's The Gambler.

Speaker 6 (59:26):
Welcome back to the Tough Cover radio show right here
on Fox Sports, The Gambler on iHeartRadio, streaming live on
Twitter and YouTube. And I have been really perplexed by
this entire Knicks coaching search, just as everybody else on

(59:47):
the planet has been. I don't understand what they thought
was going to happen. Asking for all of these coaches
from other teams who have active contracts, I don't know
why they like. I can at least understand why they'd
think like the Bulls or Hawks would say yes for

(01:00:10):
Billy Donovan Quinn Cyder. But I don't even think either
of the twitch are.

Speaker 5 (01:00:14):
Good like I do.

Speaker 7 (01:00:16):
I do like Quinn Snyder a little bit, but the
Billy do one man, like, what are we doing here?

Speaker 6 (01:00:22):
I was really high on the Quinn Snyder higher for Atlanta,
and I think that situation has had a lot of
injuries and problems. And the GM Sun player, the owner
son plays two K with the rosters sometimes. But I've
been a little disappointed by Snyder in Atlanta. It feels
like he hasn't changed that at all from what Nate
McMillan actually. I mean, Nate McMillan brought them to a

(01:00:42):
pretty far point at one point, but it hit a
stag and then I don't think it was Quincyer's done anything.

Speaker 5 (01:00:49):
They're in Atlanta to make me think i'd want him
somewhere else. Billy Donovan's to fight out bad coach, Like
I can't believe Billy Donovan's still coaching the Bulls let
alone has interested elsewhere in the NBA two coach, it's
unbelievable to me. And then you get to the guys
Jason Kidd, I think is another conversation. I'm not a
big Jason Kidd guy. At least he went to a finals.

Speaker 6 (01:01:11):
I can at least like understand that he's a He's
a legend and a lot of knicks.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
I mean, not a knicked legend, but he's a New
New Jersey, New Yorkish legend. So like, I get it,
even though I think it's dumb, I get it. And
I don't think Jason Kid should want to leave. We
talked about that last week Christopher Jimi Udoka, Like Minnesota
and Houston are not letting those guys go, Like why
would they? It's so stupid. Why you even ask?

Speaker 6 (01:01:38):
And you shouldn't be willing to give up what it
would and should take to get those guys.

Speaker 7 (01:01:44):
Think they request to interview Carlisle after this finals, that'd
be hilarious.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
The one the they should do, if they're going to
do anything, go interview Spoe. But where I The reason
that I think this is so maddening and this is
so stupid is because I don't know if we've ever
had this many.

Speaker 6 (01:02:09):
Good coaches available without a job.

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
There are so many guys who I think are interesting hires.

Speaker 6 (01:02:16):
And I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
There's three big ones we can talk about.

Speaker 6 (01:02:19):
Johnny Bryant, I get it like I'm not even including
him in my big ones, but longtime Nick's assistant. Clearly
when he went to Cleveland with Atkinson and the guy
who just got hired in Phoenix.

Speaker 5 (01:02:31):
Huge difference.

Speaker 6 (01:02:32):
I would maybe do some due diligence on how big
of a part he was of that, and I think
that's fair, especially since he was in the building before. Yeah, Mike,
Mike Malone a guy who I'm probably not even as
high on as most.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
He won an NBA championship.

Speaker 6 (01:02:47):
He's certainly figured out a way to make a defense
work with a problematic big So while there are some
similarities to Thibodeau that I think are a turn off
when you just got rid of a guy, you generally
it's like the baseball manager. Like I forget who coined this,
but you never want to play ping pong with the

(01:03:08):
managers because you bring in the players. Manager who brings
the ping pong table in, he fails. You bring in
the heart o manager who takes the ping pong table out,
and then the next guy you're gonna hire's going to
keep bringing that ping pong table back in and out
of the clubhouse. That's basically what it is in all sports.
You're gonna try to hire different or the antithesis of
what you just fired.

Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Moloane's not a bad option.

Speaker 6 (01:03:32):
Like if let's say you had to go to Mike Malone,
not a bad option whatsoever?

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
Would you agree? What's your thoughts on Brian and Malone
before I get to my two big ones.

Speaker 7 (01:03:40):
Yeah, I think there's more names that I'm excited to
hear you talk about.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
I like Michael Malone.

Speaker 7 (01:03:44):
I think he got a worse reputation than he deserves
for sort of that Denver fallout situation, which is still
pretty bizarre to me. I think that was kind of
a I think it would I wouldn't do it from
the next perspective because of the similarities to Thibbs, and
I think in the same way that Bibbs can wear
on guys, has a lot of those same qualities, but
he's a gangster man and the dude can coach basketball.
I especially like your point about the problematic defense Johnny

(01:04:07):
Bryan I don't know enough about to properly say, but
he's clearly viewed in very highlight within the organization, and
that was the guy who sort of jumped to the
top of the list from everything that I read when
things first happened. It doesn't feel like it's the clear
consensus at this point, as they continue to be the
guy that as is closing time as the bar is
just shouting across as Hey, you want to come with
home with me? You want to come home with me.
That's what it feels like the Nicks are currently doing

(01:04:28):
right now. But uh yet I wouldn't do I wouldn't
hire them alone just because of the similarities, but certainly
think he's a good basketball coach.

Speaker 5 (01:04:36):
And the Johnny Bryant thing is my take.

Speaker 6 (01:04:40):
If I had to guess what the situation is there,
it's that the front office wanted to hire Johnny Bryant,
and that James Dolan's like, we just fired Tom Thibodeau
to hire Johnny Bryant.

Speaker 5 (01:04:49):
I think that's probably what happened.

Speaker 7 (01:04:51):
I also think a part of this is, like, don't
get me wrong, I get there to the New York next,
I get what they can be at their peak, but
I feel like they rely on like like we're the
best job in basket all because we're based out of
New York, which I just think it's just not true.
Like the reality is, like people go there to coach
coach certain players and it's a good basketball team. There
are certainly far worse jobs that you could walk into,
but it's not like guys are gonna drop what they're

(01:05:13):
doing or their job to get to coach the Knicks.
Like that's just not the reality. And we're kind of
seeing that on full display right now. So I think
they've and this is just a Knicks characteristic in general,
certainly from the fan base. There is the puff our
chest now where the the most fun, most best polarizing,
most headline team in basketball, When the reality is like
there's more to it than just that, and it's not

(01:05:34):
as simple as as they would hope it is the case.
And I think the organization is sort of finding that out. Oh,
I didn't realize the King's job was open, really.

Speaker 5 (01:05:44):
I forgot about that. I thought that. I kind of
thought for whatever reason.

Speaker 7 (01:05:48):
They were, I thought they removed the interim tag from
them they did.

Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
I thought so, Oh, I just looked up an article.
It might be old at this point. It was from
June fourth, so yeah, it might be old. I just
head coaching vacancies to get an idea of how many
there were.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
Yeah, they named them.

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
I was gonna say, I thought I saw that too.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
Actually, so it's just the Grizzlies, the Knicks and the Sons,
and the Sons just hired their coach that's not even available.
So it's just mix and the Grizzlies yea, as the
two available, which feels shocking. They only have two available
head coaching jobs, which feels like next.

Speaker 5 (01:06:27):
Year that probably means we'll have like fifteen.

Speaker 6 (01:06:29):
Part of that is that there was firings and interims
came in and kept those jobs, which doesn't usually happen.
But the two guys above all else that are now
allegedly the front runners for the job and coming back
in I unless I misread the article for second interviews,
so I think are Taylor Jenkins and Mike Brown, both

(01:06:51):
of who I think are fantastic coaches. Yeah, I mean
all you could all you have to do is go
look at the Grizzlies record without job over that tenure
with Taylor Jenkins and me thinks that there might be
some situations going on in Memphis with that team that
make them hard to handle and hard to coach, and
Taylor Jenkins got the most out of them for a

(01:07:12):
really long period of time.

Speaker 7 (01:07:13):
Yeah, certainly think that is fair to assess about that
organization as a whole in some of the things that
they've had to deal with, and also from Taylor Jenkins specifically,
you read into the details of how last season went down,
he was purely set up for failure and still found
a way to like kind of exceed expectations. Like they
fired his entire assistant coaching staff. Put in like the
organization's guys, which is like this European influence in soccer,

(01:07:35):
influence on the way that this sport has played and
the way that ball movement should be, which is a
directly tied to John Moran's like unhappiness with not having
the ball enough. By the way, Taylor Jenkins is sort
of in the middle of all this juggling where he's
not really running his offense.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
He has like an offensive coordinator, but he's still the
head coach.

Speaker 7 (01:07:51):
The writing was on the wall forever, and ultimately he
ended up being fired, So you take away that he's
been an excellent head coach.

Speaker 4 (01:07:57):
I do kind of hope he gets another chance.

Speaker 7 (01:07:59):
I think that would be an ex higher by New
York and the guy that I would probably consider that
if I was making the decisions to the front runner.

Speaker 6 (01:08:05):
I've always thought he's a fantastic what he got out
of those Memphis hasn't had a good wing in his
entire run as.

Speaker 5 (01:08:12):
The Memphis coach.

Speaker 6 (01:08:13):
Yeah, I think the Memphis issues come come from a
front office front and Jaw and Jaw two.

Speaker 5 (01:08:20):
But I think Memphis.

Speaker 6 (01:08:22):
I mean, he had a fifty six and twenty six
year back in twenty one, twenty two awesome. He had
a fifty one and thirty one year the next year
this year he was on pace for fifty wins again
before he got fired. That's three fifty win seasons in
the Western Conference in the last four years. With what
I would say is absolutely never been a top five
roster in the Western Conference.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 7 (01:08:44):
And even like Jaws the superstar, a very flawed superstar
who can't shoot threes and is his availability is like
continually a question for a variety of reasons. So there's
been plenty that Taylor Jenkins has had to juggle like
he absolutely overachieved based on the circumstance is there, and
he got fired for that's.

Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
The where we live in.

Speaker 7 (01:09:02):
And at the same time, like Tom Tivenhood went to
the Eastern Conference Finals for the first time in twenty
five years for the Knicks and he got fired too.
So there really isn't like a standard you can keep
for coaches at this point.

Speaker 6 (01:09:12):
John missed twenty five games the year they went fifty
six and twenty six.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
That's crazy, that's crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
John missed twenty two games in the year they went
fifty one and thirty one, and John missed thirty two
games this year when they were on pace to win
fifty games.

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
Yeah, I don't understand. I really want to fire.

Speaker 5 (01:09:35):
Nick Nurse right now and hire Taylor Chenkins.

Speaker 4 (01:09:37):
Like I am slightly offended.

Speaker 7 (01:09:39):
There's been no request that interviewed Nick Nurse, by the way, Championship.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
Way unaware that he's a championship bicker.

Speaker 7 (01:09:45):
Yeah, I'll send the request in fellas, what are we doing, Leon,
I mean, if.

Speaker 9 (01:09:50):
They want to pull my leg and give me a
draft pick, take Nick Nurse, I mean it would be hard,
but I could say goodbye, but yeah, the Taylor Jenkins
thing is the one that really it drives me insane.

Speaker 6 (01:10:03):
I don't know how this is possible that this guy
is sitting here without a job, in the way hear
people talk about him on certain like podcasts, when when
his name comes up, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
Like, oh, I don't know why you want hit, Like
what are we doing? Like I don't get it. And
then you have Mike Brown, another guy who I've always
thought really good coach, and.

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):
I think what he did in Sacramento to get that
that being team in that era, yeah to be I'm
looking it up now, how many games did that team win?

Speaker 4 (01:10:32):
For forties for sure, maybe even fix.

Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
Then forty six games two years in a row.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Again, not that good of a team.

Speaker 7 (01:10:39):
Yeah, and a guy who's like got a personality, which
is something that I think if you're doing the antithesis
of Bibbs is appealing there that he is a guy
that's gonna like be entertaining in front of the media
or show his personality in practice. Like the clip that
jumps to mind is when he has the turn on
the Jets clip where he's in practice like running this
front here like that would be if you're looking for

(01:10:59):
the culture change and the guy to bring something. Mike
Brown checks all those boxes and has had some real
success as a coach, so I think that's another excellent
option as well. I still would lean Taylor Jenkins as
my preference, but I would certainly have no gripes if
Mike Brown is the higher.

Speaker 6 (01:11:13):
Mike Brown's If you ever listen to that guy talk about.

Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
His offense, yeah, he's awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:11:18):
He's an offensive mastermind.

Speaker 6 (01:11:20):
That guy gets offense on a level that I don't
think people give him enough credit for.

Speaker 5 (01:11:26):
And I remember, like, when he won forty eight games,
did he win Coach of the Year that year? I'm curious.
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:11:32):
I think so he should have if he didn't, But
I remember thinking, like he gave he did this press
conference about like ball movement and tempo and fast break
and how important it is and YadA YadA, and it
was it like totally made me think he was like

(01:11:52):
the smartest basketball guy I've ever heard talk like maybe
he's a better like talker than a coach. I don't know,
but I think his record speaks for itself. Obviously, Lebron
James is a big factor in this The rest of
those Cavs teams were horrific, and we saw David Black
coached Cavs teams later on in the second tenure win
forty five games or the Tylo team that was the

(01:12:15):
four seed that went.

Speaker 5 (01:12:15):
To the finals.

Speaker 6 (01:12:17):
Anyway, but he won fifty fifty, forty five, sixty six
sixty one games with Lebron In twenty eleven twenty twelve
with the Lakers, with a team that was not very good,
he came in and went forty one and twenty five
in a elimited season, which would have been a fifty

(01:12:38):
win piece regularly. That was at the end of the
Kobe run before kind of the dream team era with
Dan TONI but I really like I really like Mike Brown.

Speaker 5 (01:12:49):
I always liked Mike Brown. I don't think he gets
enough credit.

Speaker 6 (01:12:53):
He got fired when they were thirteen and eighteen this
year after winning forty eight and forty six games. A
lot of attention was paid to firing Malone than Jenkins,
and rightfully so, especially Jenkins, and I think there was
a there was another big firing.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
This year that people were surprised about.

Speaker 6 (01:13:07):
I think, yeah, maybe I'm wrong, Well, Tibodeau, maybe there's
another one too, but Thibodeau. And then I don't even
remember people reacting to Mike Brown being fired because him
being fired at thirteen and eighteen is a joke. Yeah,
that team was not that good. It's not like thirteen
and eighteen with that team is some failure. I I

(01:13:27):
really like Mike Brown, really like Taylor Jenkins, and I'm
annoyed that the Knicks have landed in a spot where
they're gonna probably get one of these guys.

Speaker 7 (01:13:34):
Yeah, I do think both will be pretty good hires there.
I still it's still like shocking to me that they
definitely like fired Thibdeau without a plan or like, like
I thought, at least if they were doing this like
they had the next guy in mine and it's very
clear they do not. Like it's very clear they're shooting
their shot all over the place, figuring things out.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
That's what's kind of surprising to me.

Speaker 6 (01:13:54):
The only way that they do is if they hire Brian,
if they hire Johnny Bryan, I think that that shows
that they had a plan from the beginning. And maybe
my take would be that the requesting other NBA coaches
was to quell James Dolan and also something that they
probably knew was going to get denied, maybe so that
they can plan back on their favorite candidate, but now

(01:14:15):
it looks like Taylor Jenkins or Mike Brown. Another thing
with Mike Brown, by the way, Mike Brown was an
assistant coach to Jordan on the Wizards. He was an
assistant coach under Popovich, coach Tim Duncan and David Robinson.
He was an assistant coach on the Reggie Miller Pacers.
He was an assistant or he was a head coach
with Lebron.

Speaker 5 (01:14:32):
There you go.

Speaker 6 (01:14:32):
He was a head coach with Lebron James. He was
a He coached Kobe Bryant on the Lakers, came back
and coached Kyrie Irving on Cleveland briefly. Then he was
in Golden State, coached all of Steph Curry, Klay Thompson,
Kevin Durant, Draymond Green.

Speaker 5 (01:14:49):
Then in Sacramento. I wouldn't say he really coached.

Speaker 6 (01:14:51):
Any stars, but I think he's shown he can handle
high pressure situations with big names and big stars, and
he's seemingly players coach. Everybody who plays for him loves him,
and I think that Jalen Brunson you know, I think
he's probably someone who could get if Brunson is upset

(01:15:12):
with this firing of Tom Thibodeau. I think he's probably
someone who can quell things over with superstars. And he's
a superstar.

Speaker 7 (01:15:21):
No, he's a simmer down on superstar. He's notably below
like every name you just mentioned for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:15:26):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. But not Reggie Miller.

Speaker 7 (01:15:30):
Yeah yeah, I mean Jalen Brunson's good. Don't get me wrong.
He's a very good player. He's a star for sure,
But like I mean, he's not you know Michael Jordan
and day Tom sa when you know Lebron James and
all these guys that you're running down, he gets Well,
I'm not gonna go too far with the Jaylen Brouns.

Speaker 6 (01:15:46):
It's meant to say he's He's worked with a lot
of superstars and knows how to handle them. And Brunson
might be a hard situation to handle right now with
him being upset with Thibodeau. Maybe him losing his dad
on the bench, or maybe Mike Brown's the guy I.

Speaker 5 (01:16:00):
Who could keep his dad on the bench, which I.

Speaker 6 (01:16:02):
Could get into a whole other moral issue with that,
but that's a whole other conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:16:07):
I also have a theory that it was.

Speaker 7 (01:16:09):
I know that like Brunson's been very defensive of Fibb's publicly,
and I think he may be an outlier in this bunch.
I think like this was an inside job, the Bibb situation,
and I kind of think that it might have been
coming from a little bit of villain over pressure. Micheale
Bridges is somebody that has certainly jumped to mind with
being really unhappy with his role. And I do wonder
as far as the Rick Bronson conversation, the moral stuff aside,

(01:16:32):
which I totally get, I agree with you on it
can't be ideal to have your best player's dad on
the staff, regardless of that he has his own resume
as a coach and all these things that just like
to some extent, has to be a bit problematic.

Speaker 5 (01:16:47):
It's very college basketball.

Speaker 6 (01:16:49):
Yeah, but I yeah, I mean, I think the rest
of the team won him fired, And I think you
can make an argument that the only reason that Brunston
didn't want him fired is because there's dead.

Speaker 4 (01:17:00):
Yeah, that could be the case.

Speaker 7 (01:17:02):
So I'm curious, like we're still pretty uh fresh in
this I wonder when the dust settles, what we get
as far as like, because there will be one of
those deep dive articles written about like the coaching change
and that kind of thing at some point this summer.

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
Very curious what comes out of there.

Speaker 5 (01:17:15):
I do.

Speaker 7 (01:17:16):
I do Michale Bridges. That really is intriguing to me.
I feel like there's more there that hasn't been brought up.

Speaker 6 (01:17:23):
By the way, another name I'll just bring up as
someone who should get looked at, and I feel like
has barely been mentioned, Sam Pasel.

Speaker 5 (01:17:31):
The fact that this guy's never gone ahead coach and
that was.

Speaker 7 (01:17:34):
Crazy, yeah, insane, and my last doll on the Bridges point,
by the way, Just so I'm not making things up
out of thin air, I say that because number one,
he was underutilized in the offense straight up all season.
He also was the same dude that publicly talked about
how like they played too much and they're playing too
many minutes, and then Thibodeau was like, yeah, we never
had that conversation. So there just feels like to me,
there's a little bit of smoke in the atmosphere with that,

(01:17:55):
and I do wonder how it ties together.

Speaker 5 (01:17:57):
One other guy I'll mention Mike and Norri from Minnesota
if you ever hear him talk. He's really really an
interesting guy, really funny also but apparently really really good
defensive A coach helps Finch out a lot there. I
think Finch is a really good coach also. But let
me tew two more names that you just this.

Speaker 6 (01:18:15):
I guess the question is how bad is the sun situation?
Because are we just throwing like Gudenholzer and Frank Vogel
out forever?

Speaker 5 (01:18:25):
Are those guys not? Both of them are not allowed
to be head coaching candidates.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
But I certainly feel that way about Vogel.

Speaker 7 (01:18:32):
I'm a little bit more neutral on But this is
my thing is I think they both kind of fit
like the you know, just recycled names that we know
exactly the deal.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
They're going to be Okay, they're gonna be fine.

Speaker 7 (01:18:41):
I think when you're making a head coaching higher, I
want to take that swing of like this dude can
legitately change the culture or be innovative and raise things
with my offense and that our defense, or however you
want to look at it. I don't feel that way
about either one of those guys.

Speaker 5 (01:18:53):
Frank Vogel want an NBA championship.

Speaker 7 (01:18:55):
Yeah, he did with the Lakers, and like, I'm he's
not a great team, but it still had Lebron James
on it. Like, yeah, it makes life a whole lot
easier as a head coach there. I feel more positively
about Vogel than I do Bud, for sure, but I
be either one of them. I just like all the
names that you mentioned better.

Speaker 6 (01:19:14):
I think Bud is like checked out, it seems Vogel.
I think the fact that Frank Vogel got fired in
Phoenix is one of the craziest things that we've seen
in a long time. He won forty nine games, who
went forty nine and thirty three last year in Phoenix
and was like a win away from the two seed.

Speaker 5 (01:19:34):
If they would have won like fifty one games, they
would have been the two seed.

Speaker 6 (01:19:38):
But I think there's I might retroactively look at that
performance and say, after what we just saw Bud do,
maybe that was a great job by Vogel to go
and win forty nine games and make the playoffs with
that Phoenix team that is so clearly flawed and so
clearly run horribly in every direction.

Speaker 5 (01:20:00):
I think Voguls name should be back in the market.
Back on the mix, Zach Low brought this up, and
I'm not a huge Zach logui, but I heard that
and I was like, huh, I hadn't really thought of
it that way, And I'm kind of back in on
Frank Vogel now.

Speaker 7 (01:20:15):
I just remember not feeling like that at all at
the time, Like I remember being like, I don't love
the job. Vocals done well because Phoenix was supposed to
win like sixty games.

Speaker 6 (01:20:23):
We thought once Duranton Booker the first year together, we're
good in the playoffs, and we thought they were going
to go and compete for a title, right, So the
forty nine games felt like disappointment. But I think now
we can look after this year and say we had
too high expectations both years, and forty nine wins retrospectively,

(01:20:44):
I think is a little more impressive now.

Speaker 7 (01:20:46):
By the way, do you see how many head coaches
Devin Booker has now had.

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
He's a little bit of a coach killer.

Speaker 7 (01:20:53):
This will be his seventh head coach al riding his
NBA carreag Dude's like twenty nine.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
That's crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:20:58):
By the way, It's funny that he's say that Carl
Towns and Devin Booker, same college team, same draft. For
some reason, in my head, it feels like Carl Towns
has been a part of my life longer, Like it
feels like Carl Towns. When I hear he's twenty nine
or thirty, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Devin Booker's
always going to be like twenty three in my head.

Speaker 5 (01:21:16):
Yeah, And I don't know what that is. I don't
know why. Maybe because he looks.

Speaker 4 (01:21:20):
Young he is twenty eight, I guess.

Speaker 7 (01:21:22):
And I think he's kind of like irrelevance the wrong word,
and kind of disrespectful.

Speaker 4 (01:21:26):
But he's just kind of.

Speaker 5 (01:21:27):
Like, yeah, that's not nice.

Speaker 7 (01:21:30):
But like Carl Anthony Towns is in our face obviously
now with the Knicks, and even before, like there were
the battles like with Joel and things like that. Like
Devin Booker kind of does his own thing, exists in
his own universe a little bit out there in Phoenix.

Speaker 6 (01:21:41):
He was in our face for a minute there when
like they went to the finals and then they blew.
I think his moment ended when they lost Game seven
by eighty points.

Speaker 7 (01:21:51):
Yeah, Yeah, that was that was tough. Shout out Luka
Dancic Man.

Speaker 5 (01:21:54):
That ruined the franchise. Yeah, it ruined the song's entire franchise.

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:21:58):
And I mean they've just kind of all the corrections
that they've tried to take since that point have directly
made things worse.

Speaker 4 (01:22:05):
I don't think there's any recovering. We're doing.

Speaker 7 (01:22:08):
All this conversation with Kevin Durant, trade, the coaching change,
all of this is to say, I don't see why
where they can build a winner still with Bradley Beal
on that roster.

Speaker 5 (01:22:16):
We got to go rapid fire on some of these
last couple of topics here, but we did. There was
the report Sham said that three teams that have emerged
as the finalists for Kevin Durant are the Heat, Timberwolves,
and Rockets.

Speaker 6 (01:22:31):
And I think that there are two other names mentioned initially,
the Spurs and whom I'm missing.

Speaker 5 (01:22:38):
Spurs, Heat, Timberwolves, Rockets.

Speaker 7 (01:22:39):
I'm missing a team, shoot the Timberwolves. I'll say this,
the Heat and Timberwolves. I don't see whatsoever that the
t Wolves are a second apron team. They can't aggregate salaries,
you can. It basically has to happen after July first
and because that's when the new league year, the new
league year resets there. I don't see how that happens
with Phoenix wanting to get this job, get this done

(01:23:01):
before the draft, and Miami, who are you trading man?
Like you think a Tyler Hero is moving the needle
or Bam out of Bayoh is moving the needle.

Speaker 4 (01:23:08):
From Phoenix's perspective.

Speaker 5 (01:23:10):
I think they both absolutely do. I think the problem
is I don't think Miami.

Speaker 6 (01:23:15):
I think they need those those guys if they're going
to try to compete with KD.

Speaker 5 (01:23:19):
Hero was unbelievable this year. I was never a Hero guy.

Speaker 6 (01:23:24):
Really. The steps he's taken I think are a testament
to the heat, like coaching and development and all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:23:31):
Whatever, we can make fun of it.

Speaker 6 (01:23:32):
And you know, they had like literally the worst playoff
performance in NBA history this year, so he culture is
not doing great. But I would say, like his development,
like I remember, like he was putting up like Maxie
numbers this year, like and I remember I used to
make fun of Dan Levittard with those he had those
comments where he's he's not worse than Maxie, He's just

(01:23:53):
whiter than MAXI or whatever that was that used.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
To go around.

Speaker 6 (01:23:57):
I'd still take Maxi, but Hero real efficiency he shot
the ball with last year was something I never would
have saw possible. And Baman's a great player. I've always
been really high. I'm damn so those two guys would
be better than anybody. I think the Heat are going
to the Sons are gonna get for Durant.

Speaker 7 (01:24:19):
You who are then going to get for Durant in Houston? Dude,
you can take your pick as some of those guys.

Speaker 5 (01:24:24):
Is Like, I don't think I think Bam or Hero
are going to be better than any one player they
get from Houston.

Speaker 4 (01:24:32):
Probably that's true.

Speaker 5 (01:24:33):
They're not gonna get Shangoon or Thompson.

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
Yeah, that's that's probably true.

Speaker 7 (01:24:37):
But I still think, like from where Phoenix is at, yeah,
the whole past, like the Phoenix should be looking for
that type of package. In my opinion, like you you
you got to reset things Houston and the draft picks.
So the fact that they have the Sun's draft picks,
to me, like everything leads to Kevin Rant is going
to be a rocket.

Speaker 5 (01:24:56):
I don't like it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:58):
I don't like it's not I think Houston should be
conserving and saving up for a guard I think they're
gonna have the same problem.

Speaker 7 (01:25:06):
I think they can afford to take it the swing though.
I think they have enough that it's fine. Oh the
other team was the Knicks, by the way, all right, right, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:25:14):
And again because I.

Speaker 6 (01:25:15):
Still think that's the spot, Like I still think every
other spot I've heard that Kevin Durant could go to.
I think is makes their either long term or short
term situation works. The nixt are the only one I've
heard where it's like you're back into a corner if
you're in New York right now with Jalen and kat
on the same team. Katie gets you out of that
corner and levels you up in terms of like that second.

Speaker 5 (01:25:39):
Legit score next to Jalen Bronson. So I like that.

Speaker 6 (01:25:43):
The Timberwolves is the one where it's, like you said,
like you didn't understand the heat.

Speaker 5 (01:25:49):
How are they getting into it? How are the Timberwolves?
What are the Timberwolves treating?

Speaker 4 (01:25:52):
Yeah, that's what I was saying. Like the second apron
factor too.

Speaker 7 (01:25:55):
Jade McDaniels is sort of the crux of it, it seems,
but that isn't he isn't it anywhere near all the
guys that we just mentioned in this I think the
only real ties there is like the Kevin Durant and
Anthony Edwards relationship that they kind of would just want
to play together. Unfortunately, that's not exactly how roster construction works.

Speaker 5 (01:26:13):
Yeah, I don't get that at all. They also don't
a picks from the go bear trade either, So, like,
I don't get it the Rockets.

Speaker 6 (01:26:19):
We talked about, the Knicks, we talked about, and we've
talked about the Spurs. I think it's becoming more clear
that the Spurs are not as seriously in on this.

Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
As we thought.

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
Yeah, I think that's definitely true.

Speaker 5 (01:26:32):
I think it's smart personally.

Speaker 6 (01:26:34):
But yeah, I guess I can say, like I get
the Rockets more than the Spurs.

Speaker 7 (01:26:42):
I'm saying I think Houston should, to be honest, like
that's they need to go to a score. They need
a guy that like can just get a bucket. That
was their complete problem in the playoffs this year. Jalen
Green isn't gonna be that guy. Like he's too sporadic
with things. Shinguon as great as he is and who
played very well in the playoffs, mind you, Like, I
don't think he's going to be that type of guy.
They need a Kevin Durant type dude, and they're in

(01:27:03):
a perfect spot to make like a consolidation trade. You
got to really decide who is your core and who
are the guys you need to trim, because we are
kind of at the point where some guys like development
is being stunted by how many minutes they just don't
have to spread around.

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
So to me, the rockets make perfect sense.

Speaker 5 (01:27:17):
If I'm Phoenix, I'm saying you have to give me
both Tari and.

Speaker 7 (01:27:23):
Shepherd, and I think Houston does that, Like, I think
they would be fine with that. You also, if you
want to dig into the cap not to nerd out here,
but you can.

Speaker 5 (01:27:30):
Right now, it's the wrong time to trade Read Shepard.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
Yeah, I agree. I think Read is still very good
for sure.

Speaker 7 (01:27:36):
The other thing that I think is gonna be real
appealing from Phoenix's perspective is you could to make the
money work. Throw in Fred van Vliet's contract, who has
a club option, and then you just decline it, Like
you can basically get forty million dollars off your books,
which they the son should be interested in doing.

Speaker 5 (01:27:52):
I don't even know what they should be interested in doing.
I don't know. I don't know what the way out
for phoenixes.

Speaker 7 (01:27:58):
I think that's kind of it though, if we talk
through that exact package and this is probably a lot,
but if it's van Fleet, Easton Read Shepherd and like
a pick, they can't.

Speaker 6 (01:28:08):
Give up two guards though they're going to have to
keep two of van Fleet, Jalen and Shepherd.

Speaker 4 (01:28:14):
I think maybe yeah, I don't know, it's tough.

Speaker 7 (01:28:18):
I do think like from Phoenix's perspective, you should have
Fred van Fleet circled and then be ready to cut
him because they need as much financial relief as they
can get.

Speaker 4 (01:28:27):
The Celtics should be looking at him as well. I guess.

Speaker 5 (01:28:30):
I would you say, not.

Speaker 7 (01:28:32):
From a player perspective whatsoever, it's just kind of a
way out. There's very few of those contracts.

Speaker 5 (01:28:36):
Does it should be even care about that?

Speaker 4 (01:28:40):
I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

Speaker 6 (01:28:42):
Uh, I only should either, Yeah, it's up to him financially,
I guess, like, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:28:47):
I think you kind of have to care about the
team if you have to have a booker on it. Yeah,
if you're willing to tank it down and get rid
of financial stress and things, like that, then you've got
to trade Booker two.

Speaker 7 (01:28:57):
Well, I think they're tied though, like the with the UCBA,
there's like handcuffs with the when you're in the second
apron and flexibility for the future. Like I think it's
an intertwined conversation that.

Speaker 5 (01:29:08):
Goes away if you trade. I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:29:11):
It's you have to trade the tenth pick in this too,
I think, because I don't. I keep thinking, like we
talked about this when that pick came up in the mock,
like who makes sense for Houston to take a ten
that's not going to sit for two years?

Speaker 5 (01:29:27):
Like I don't, maybe a big, but like he's gonna
be the backup big then, Like, I don't know, who
makes sense for Houston to draft at ten.

Speaker 7 (01:29:36):
Colin Murray Boyles intrigues me a little bit. He's very Houston.

Speaker 5 (01:29:40):
Already have a non shooting big though.

Speaker 7 (01:29:43):
Yeah, but I think EMI would love it, Like I
think he's his kind of guy.

Speaker 5 (01:29:49):
I'm not. I'm not a CMB guy.

Speaker 7 (01:29:51):
I'm not particularly either, but that's one that like, as
I start to mock things out and look at it,
that's one that I keep circling back to.

Speaker 5 (01:30:01):
I'm interested to see what they do at ten, because
every I don't think they need anything, but they kind
of need everything. It's a really weird situation, but I
think they should. They should include.

Speaker 6 (01:30:12):
Ten in whatever and whatever. Try to do real quick,
let's discuss my picks. This will be real fast. I
like I have four bets. I like them all the
same amount, four of five. I've got two bets in
the Phillies game. Wasn't sure which way to go. Went
with the Phillies run line minus one and a half
at plus one thirty. Also went with the first five
at minus one plus one thirty for the run line,

(01:30:34):
minus one ten for the first five line.

Speaker 5 (01:30:37):
I couldn't decide which way to go.

Speaker 6 (01:30:38):
Sanchez good numbers against Toronto and the bullpen didn't really
use the top pieces yesterday.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
So you still have Kirkering ready today, still have Romano.

Speaker 6 (01:30:48):
I think it's better, a better setup than most Saturdays
after a the day before.

Speaker 5 (01:30:54):
So give me both Phillies lines there four to ten.

Speaker 6 (01:30:57):
Give me the Brewers minus one sixteen against the car
almost the Cardinals have lost six straight, make it seven straight.

Speaker 5 (01:31:03):
I think the Brewers are hot right now.

Speaker 6 (01:31:06):
They've won four of five, So give me the Brewers
money lines that I missed the weekly James Harden LoveFest.
James Harden is on the talk about James Harden at
eight o'clock. The Panthers team total over three at the
Oilers for two units. They have done this in every
game of this series, and I think at the very
least you're going to get a push on those goals

(01:31:27):
for three. So those are my place Phillies both ways,
Brewers money line and the Panthers team total.

Speaker 5 (01:31:33):
If you made me make a pick on my favorite,
it's probably the Brewers. I do like that Brewers play.

Speaker 6 (01:31:41):
But let's talk about Phils real fast. Phil's have now
won what I guess, three of their last four. Here,
I'm taking two of three from Chicago, winning game one
in Toronto and a really easy, stress free eight nothing game.
I think this story from yesterday's nice to talk about
a win. By the way, it's so often a Lots
on Friday. Is Ranger freaking Suarez.

Speaker 4 (01:32:04):
He's back.

Speaker 5 (01:32:04):
He's the man.

Speaker 7 (01:32:06):
Yeah, he really is man. He just does his thing
and like cruise through those innings too. It looked easy
last night, and that's when Rangers at his past. Uh yeah,
I mean he's right back in the mix for one
of the top arms in this overall rotation here, and
also what do you want to throw in the mix here?
Andrew Paynter getting hit up a little bit down in
the minors. So curious what default plan is for what
the staff when it fully comes together. I'm not a

(01:32:27):
Russian ranger, and it is going to break my heart
when he eventually signs out swear to this offseason.

Speaker 5 (01:32:31):
Yeah, and he's gonna sign for two little money. He's
not going to get enough money for what he's worth.
In my opinion, it's gonna be a shame. But you
look at what he's done. He had his bad start
to start out the year.

Speaker 6 (01:32:43):
Since that moment, he has now started seven games and
has a one point one six ERA.

Speaker 5 (01:32:50):
It is absolutely unbelievable.

Speaker 6 (01:32:52):
It's even better than you both what he was doing
when he was the cy Young favorite last year at
a point in or mayor June. So I mean unequivocally,
right now he is the number two pitcher on this staff,
and that's going to be an interesting game to play
because he's the only guy with bullpen experience and he's
a lefty, which they need in the bullpen.

Speaker 5 (01:33:13):
And but right.

Speaker 6 (01:33:14):
Now, the way he's pitching, you simply can't do it,
and the way lose Art has had a couple of
bad outings.

Speaker 7 (01:33:19):
Sanchez, he looks back though.

Speaker 6 (01:33:23):
And I'm fully back in because there was that there
was a tweet about how he was tipping pitches and
he realized it.

Speaker 5 (01:33:29):
So that's a that's a really big thing for me.

Speaker 6 (01:33:31):
Sanchez anothery're really good outing, but he has not been
the same guy in terms of his stuff and in
terms of unhittable and swing and miss stuff. So I mean,
with with those two guys not being as perfect as
they've been at times, Rangers been perfect these last seven games.
There's there's no argument right now that if you're if

(01:33:52):
the playoffs were today, he would have to get a start.

Speaker 7 (01:33:55):
Yeah, no, absolutely there. I don't think that there's any
argument against that.

Speaker 5 (01:34:01):
And with Painter, his fastball is really flat right now.
Jack Fritz was talking about how he has not gotten
his movement back on his fastball.

Speaker 4 (01:34:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:34:10):
It's also I think we all kind of put the
car before the horse a little bit and rushing this
guy to the majors and we forget like he hasn't
pitched in like two years, because he's been recovering from
this and it's not the easiest thing to just pick
up there, Like it's gonna take some work going against
live hitters. So still not selling any Andrew Painter stock
in the long haul, but I would say everybody just
relaxed a little bit. It may not be a difference

(01:34:31):
maker for this season in a way that I think
the way that plenty of people have talked about.

Speaker 6 (01:34:35):
Pitchers are generally bad, like when they come up, which
is why, like people were picking mick Abel apart on
his last start, and I was trying to tell people
like this, Like someone said, like.

Speaker 5 (01:34:47):
Oh, there goes the Mickabel trade value.

Speaker 6 (01:34:49):
What I try to tell that person is those two
starts that he had at the MLB level, he could
have ten more starts that are worse than the start
we just saw where you got three runs, four gettings,
whatever it was, and people would still be like, yeah,
but look at what he did his first couple of
starts at the major league level. That's something tangible that
we can grab onto and work with and say that

(01:35:11):
worked in the MLB level, because most rookie pitchers don't
do not work at the MLB level. So I think
that's that's always important to point out one last thing here.
We touched on just about everything, but one last thing.
There was a tweet that I sent you that people

(01:35:31):
were going nuts about.

Speaker 5 (01:35:34):
And I'm the biggest Jalen Hurts guy in the business today.

Speaker 6 (01:35:38):
But what I will say is, Eagles fans can't have
it every way they want it. Eagles fans can't want
Saquon Barkley to be the MVP. And then also say
we're the most dominant team in forty years or twenty
years or whatever you want to say. And then also

(01:36:00):
say that Jalen Hurts is the only quarterback who could
have won the title.

Speaker 7 (01:36:04):
Not the only, not the only, but justin Herbert certainly wouldn't.
And he's on this list here.

Speaker 5 (01:36:08):
Herbert is not the defensive name on this.

Speaker 4 (01:36:10):
List, Dak. You're looking at a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:36:13):
More offensive than Herbert, like five to seven more offensive
dance than Herbert.

Speaker 7 (01:36:18):
I'd say, who's Herbert is my number one offense? For
obvious reasons.

Speaker 5 (01:36:22):
Ye're you're too far gone, But we'll just go down
the list. Mark Gunnell's so I don't even know that is,
but Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 7 (01:36:29):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Josh Allen fine with it, Lamar fine
with it, Burrow fine with it.

Speaker 6 (01:36:39):
Stafford if he On's just so immovable, And.

Speaker 5 (01:36:43):
If you look at stats, it's pretty shocking how bad
he is statistically when compared to when you watch him,
like the eye test is great with Stafford, Jayde and Daniels.

Speaker 6 (01:36:53):
I'll say yes, just because I think he brings that mobility.
I think Jalen's better than Jayane Daniels still at this point,
but I will say I will say Jaden Dames Herbert,
I'd say yes.

Speaker 7 (01:37:05):
No way, absolutely, no way he's thrown He's how many
picks as he's thrown in the Super Bowl eight nine.

Speaker 5 (01:37:11):
You can't compare that situation to this situation.

Speaker 7 (01:37:14):
I mean, the Eagles played far tougher defenses than the
Houston Texans across the Super Bowl run, and Justin Herbert
could not handle them.

Speaker 6 (01:37:23):
They had nobody on that roster last year like that.
That roster was not we were we talked about on
this show.

Speaker 5 (01:37:29):
We thought they were gonna win like five games going
into the year, and then they won twelve.

Speaker 7 (01:37:32):
But Jordan Love, I just want a bookmark for this
season that how many people are telling me how you
included Mark Henry Junior. How the Chargers have one of
the best roster in football, one of the best roster
in football. So when they are seven and ten and
missing the playoffs, I just.

Speaker 4 (01:37:47):
Went to this last year.

Speaker 5 (01:37:48):
We're not gonna They're not gonna win less than ten.

Speaker 4 (01:37:51):
We'll see, we will see.

Speaker 5 (01:37:54):
I'll say love.

Speaker 4 (01:37:55):
I think yes, yeah, I'm okay with that.

Speaker 5 (01:37:57):
I'm higher on the most so I can understand if
people think that's wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:38:02):
Dak No, No, absolutely not. Baker, Yes, I'm ify on Baker,
that's fair.

Speaker 5 (01:38:09):
But I'd say yes, Stroud, absolutely not. Stroud was horrible
last year. Yeah, I don't think people realize that.

Speaker 7 (01:38:17):
I'm not as offended by it as you are, but
I wouldn't put him on this list.

Speaker 5 (01:38:22):
Justin Herbert is better than C. J.

Speaker 6 (01:38:24):
Stroud At this point, I think it's really hard to
make an argument for Stroud over Herbert.

Speaker 4 (01:38:30):
Stroud's rookie year was more impressive than anything Herbert's done.

Speaker 5 (01:38:33):
I don't agree with that.

Speaker 4 (01:38:35):
I think that's for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:38:37):
I mean, this year was more impressive.

Speaker 7 (01:38:40):
Stroud was bad last year, which is where the conversation
gets hard.

Speaker 5 (01:38:43):
I think that Herbert did this year is more impressive.
Than Stroud last year.

Speaker 7 (01:38:47):
Yeah, I don't think that's true horrible. I don't think
it was that bad. The Chargers raster, who are the
running backs I don't even I'm out of football, Gus Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:39:01):
And who was their second receiver, the worst receiver in football?

Speaker 4 (01:39:04):
Quentin Johnson.

Speaker 6 (01:39:06):
There was They had Lad McConkie's who I think is
like the thirtieth best receiver's.

Speaker 4 (01:39:10):
Football, Keenan Allen.

Speaker 7 (01:39:13):
If only had like Keenan Allen and Mike Williams for
a bunch of years or something.

Speaker 5 (01:39:17):
They were gone by then.

Speaker 4 (01:39:18):
I know, if only he had him.

Speaker 5 (01:39:20):
That was when he had Brandon Staley as this coach.

Speaker 6 (01:39:22):
I'm not saying that there's not valid criticism to have
Justin Herbert, but he's not.

Speaker 5 (01:39:28):
The name on this list to be offended, more offensive,
more offensive. And the most offensive name on this list
is Kyler Murray. Murray's stone cold loser.

Speaker 7 (01:39:39):
I didn't even notice Kyler Murray on here until now.
That is definitely offensive. That is definitely offensive.

Speaker 5 (01:39:44):
You know whose name I'm going to throw on this list,
Gino Smith. He could have won the title last year
with Noam. I'm joking, but I do love Gino and
I think Gina's better than better than Kyler Murray flat out.
But yeah, I think my list is five to six,
been eight, and you could convince me no on Herbert
or Mayfield, but it's only about eight quarterbacks. But we

(01:40:08):
also won Super Bowl by like twelve. We would have
won by forty, and we won by like eighteen or
whatever it ended up being. But I I this this
team is the greatest football team I've ever seen. So
it's not some offensive thing to me to suggest that
other quarterbacks could have won it. I don't think they
could have won it the way we want it with

(01:40:29):
uh with the way we won a Super Bowl with
Jalen guming nuts. But that's gonna do it for today's
radio show, Let's take it. Let's head over to the
Fox Sports Radio satellite and thanks Sean Bernard back in
the ones and twos, Thanks everybody for listening. Talk our country.
That's right,