Tough Cover Show: Phillies Gettin' Hot, Hulk Hogan Passes Away, Full NFC Preview - 07/26/25

Mark Henry Jr., Roy Burton, and Nick McClay are in studio talking all things Phillies, MLB, and Hulk Hogan passing away in Hour 1.

In Hour 2, they dive into a full 2025 NFC preview as we inch closer to the NFL season.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand a new
and improved Iheard Radio app w D A y S
and w G two seven three D Philadelphia is Fox
Sports Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
The gambler that we have there.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
You want to talk right down to that and a
language of littlebody here can easily understand.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
Then, Hello and welcome to the Tough Cover Radio Show.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
I am your host, Mark Henry Jr. You can follow
me on Twitter as always at Mark Henry Junior NFL.
We've got a little switch up back in the studio
on the ones and twos. We've got my guy Roy Burton.
You can go and follow him at the BS line
on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Roy.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
How we doing.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
We're doing pretty good, Mark. Training camp started this week.
Man camp feel better than that, right.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
We're getting close. We are getting close, and we got
a couple of topics that will make you feel like
we're getting closer. We're gonna run down all the NFC
win totals today. I'm gonna throw some some off season
kind of losses and additions in there, some some new
coaching stuff as we go through it, so that'll be fun.

(01:56):
We'll cover the NFC fully. We'll do the NFC or
the AFC in a couple of weeks. But on the
other side of the table there back in the studio
at the iHeart Studios, we got my guy, my co host,
Sean Bernard.

Speaker 5 (02:09):
How are we doing, Sean, Yeah, doing well, Mark Henry Jr.

Speaker 6 (02:12):
Roy Burton holding things down on the board over here.
We've been walking through it, so he's all ready to go.
I'm excited to chop it up with both you guys.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Absolutely. You can follow Sean on Twitter as Sean Underscore
Bernard one. And we got a lot of football to talk.
I feel like my inclination this time of year is
just football, football, football, football. Let's ignore what's going on
with baseball. But we are in the hot stove, and
I have some takes about that to get off a
little bit. As we are five days away from July

(02:43):
thirty first, and when I was a kid, and this
is just and Roy is gonna get upset because he
got upset with a tweet I sent on Twitter. And
the thing I could tell Roy is like, you're getting
upset about my age. Take a look at everybody else
at the radio station. I'm like an old I'm an

(03:04):
old man compared to Beef and maclay.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
And Arcaney, though Kande is the one who makes me
upset the absolutely.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
I know you think he's older. I remember the first
time I met him, I thought he was like five
years older than he is. But uh yeah, if you
got a problem with me, I'm almost thirty, brother, I'm
getting old at this point. But in terms of when
I was a kid, it just felt like, and maybe
this is being a kid. I don't know. Maybe you

(03:31):
guys can tell me if I'm wrong. It just felt
like every off season, or not every off season, I'm sorry,
every every deadline it felt like there was a major move,
a major name that was moving. I remember eight, the
year we went and won it CC Sabbathia goes to Milwaukee,
you have Manny Ramirez goes to the Dodgers, and it

(03:53):
felt like, and I mean the Phillies. How many times
in a row, oh, nine, ten, eleven, did we go
out and get Cliff Lee or you go out and
you get Royo's Walt, you go out and you get
Hunter Pence, and you're going out and getting these big names.
And a couple of years ago we saw Sodo moved
at the deadline, so at least that is somewhat like
that's a huge name moving at the deadline. It just

(04:15):
feels more rare nowadays. It felt like around this time
of year when I was a kid, I was baseball tonight.
I was tuning in every minute I could to hear,
you know, Peter Gammon's or Pedro Gomez come on and
tell me like there's a mystery team for Joe Blanton
in the mix, And I was locked in in a

(04:35):
way that it just doesn't feel like it now. Maybe
that's expanded playoffs, going from four teams to then five
teams with the Wildcard game, and now it's at six
teams and everybody gets the three game series at least,
So maybe that's part of it. There's less teams selling
because you want to try to compete if you're three
or four games out of the playoffs. Have you guys

(04:57):
noticed that over the last couple of years. Is this
just growing up and finding out everything stinks?

Speaker 7 (05:03):
Or what.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Is this?

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Am I off here?

Speaker 6 (05:07):
I think the expanded playoffs is the biggest driving reason
for it. I also think like I almost feel like
the MLB is trying to sell it in a way
that it just does not live up to. Like the
last couple of Phillies games, I've noticed them really harping on,
like talking about trade deadline stuff, and like Nick Castiano
is constantly hearing his name come up. And you have
to wonder if Bryce Harper shifts back out the outfield,
if they can find a way to upgrade her kind

(05:27):
of speaking these big moves into existence. What I do
agree with you, I think in reality that there is
not quite as seismic shifts if we've accustomed to her.
I think, honestly a lot of us would prefer be
the case, and to bring it about this specific Phillies team,
I almost think it would be a mistake if there
is not something at least sort of some sort of
needle moving move there that I do think this is
the most important trade deadline of this Phillies era here,

(05:49):
and I think that they have to walk away with something.
But it does feel like the deadline has kind of
turned into whatever bullpen rental that you want, or maybe
a platoon outfield er. That's sort of what has become
the norm. And it is a little disappointed because of that.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right. Yeah, just to kind of back up with what
Sean said, Yeah, like you said, with the expanded playoffs, Like,
everybody's in the mix, right, I don't have the standings
in front of me, but there's a lot of teams
that have a reasonable shot of making the playoffs. And
you're in the mix, you know, late July, you know,
yb sellers at the deadline, why not you know, try
to make a run for it these last two months.
So I think, yeah, that the expended playoffs is just
gonna give everybody more of a chance to believe that
they have a shot of making the postseason. So again,

(06:24):
you're gonna see less and less of these deadlines. But
you kind of brought it back to baseball tonight with
Peter Gammons and Pedro Gomez. It seems like a lifetime ago, right,
It seems like a lifetime ago that the trade deadline
in baseball was the thing. But I remember, like it
used to be bigger. It used to be for me.
It used to be the biggest trade deadline, you know,
in sports, like even better, even bigger than the NBA
trade deadline, even bigger than absolute Yeah, I mean, it

(06:45):
used to be the trade deadline, you know, when when
teams were when being moves at you know, at the
late July and now it's just kind of like lost
all of his luster. Wow.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah, I would say that the NBA off season's always
been crazy. Even dating back to when I was a kid,
the trade deadline for the NBA didn't feel like a
major moment in the year. I feel like until I
want to say, like the Lebron heat Ish era or
maybe even the Warriors era, Like I think like that

(07:16):
kind of stretch you want to say, like, oh, nine
to twenty fifteen, somewhere in that stretch, Like, I feel
like the NBA trade deadline passed the MLB and became
a big deal where the MLB, Yeah, it was a
huge deal. And maybe this is just a nostalgia conversation,
but I I watched those early two thousands MLB documentaries

(07:37):
about the Red Sox Yankees, about the I Guess maguire
Sosis ninety eight, but about all those things in those
I mean moneyball is based on a team from two
thousand and two, like all of the things from those eras,
like baseball just felt like it was on the tip
of the tongue on Sports Center. It was the first

(07:59):
you know, if there is a big rivalry game in
the regular season it could dominate conversation nationally that day.
If there was a big playoff series going to a
game six, like that would be the main conversation. Now,
it feels like there's basically no way for the MLB
to ever be like the number one story outside of

(08:20):
the dead months of the summer where it's the regular
season and people are checked out anyway, like when they
get to the playoffs. Now, I don't know the last
time where baseball has become the number one story in sports,
like above anything that's going on in football the next
day or two days ago.

Speaker 6 (08:36):
Yeah, to be honest, I don't know if that's a
fixable problem there that I kind of feel like that
is what it is that baseball does not, I guess,
resonate with as many people as other sports like football
and basketball primarily being the drivers of this conversation, football
certainly being the king of the overarching kind of debate
from viewership there.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
I don't know what baseball could do to fix this.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
I honestly think they deserve some credit for taking steps
in the right direction. I think the pitch clock is
something that is open things up and sped up the
game and people. It is more appealing for kind of
a scale down thing. I do think that there is
like an intentional, like drawn attention to trade deadline moves
and as much buzz as they can get. But the
reality is, like people are gonna watch what they want
to and I do think like football and basketball are

(09:15):
gonna continue to hold that. So do you think there's
any way to fix that or is it is what
it is?

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Do you do you think there's like the issues with
the stars or lack of their lack thereof of stars,
because I mean, if there was some star power, if
there were some people who kind of you know, the
casual fan could gravitate too, I think that might be
a little bit, you know, something that the baseball could
you know, embrace and kind of you know, market those
guys going forward. I mean, because again, baseball is still
a great sport. Yeah, we remember I remember the World
Baseball Classic, you know, Mike Trout Sarriohiltani, Like it was

(09:41):
one of the greatest like, you know, moments of baseball
that I can remember in recent memory. You had two
of the best players go at it in in that
in that World Baseball Classic. I think if you just
had more stars that were kind of known on a
more general basis, it could get a little bit, a
little bit more traction. But you're right, like, I can't
remember the last time, you know, outside of maybe like
a Game seven of a World Series where like baseball
was like the lead story in you know, in sports

(10:03):
for more than a day.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
I think it's just become like I don't know why
it's this way, but more than any other to this point.
Go compare the Sixers ratings to the Phillies ratings. Any year,
the Phillies have better local TV ratings, and that's the
case in almost every baseball market. Baseball has become parochial,
where it's something you care about, the team you care about,

(10:27):
even though I'm wearing like a Cub shirt right now,
like you don't. I don't seek out a ton of
out of market baseball, I really, if we're saying honestly,
I don't seek out any out of market baseball that
I don't gamble on. Yeah, And I don't know what
that means. And I think if I'm I'm playing fantasy
baseball on a pretty highest takes level, and if I'm

(10:50):
not going out and seeking non gambling reasons to watch
baseball games. I think that's probably a bad sign, uh,
for for the for the MLB if I'm of all
people not doing that. But anyway, I don't want to
spend too much time on that that It was just
something that came up in my brain this week. And
I got an argument with a buddy who's kind of

(11:10):
a baseball over everything guy, and he was trying to
tell that was along a little bit. But yeah, I
think that it's hard to ignore how big of a
deal it used to feel like. But let's get it
back to the Phillies big win last night. Kylesh Werber
Bryce Harper just two of the hottest hitters on the planet.
But I think what they're doing emphasizes the point even

(11:33):
more that you need to add to this lineup. You
look at some of the stats out there over the
last twenty nine games, arbitrary number, but it's because kysh
Werber has fourteen home runs in twenty nine games, which
is a Ryan Howard esque level of run That is
very rare. I mean, and I've talked about it time
and time again. I think power has become underrated in baseball.

(11:58):
There's less guys who have fifty plus home run potential
across baseball than there were five, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago.
So I think the guys who kind of even hit
thirty five to forty homers have actually become underrated in
some ways. But let's talk about that twenty nine game stretch.
In that stretch, the Phillies have the best starting rotation ERA.

(12:19):
Kyle Schwerber has fourteen home runs. He has like a
plus thousand ops. They are fifteen and fourteen in that stretch.
In a stretch where your team has the best starting rotation,
hera and Kyle Schwerber is the best hitter on the planet,
maybe outside of show Hey and they in that stretch
they scored two or less runs nine times, as they

(12:40):
would say in Ferris Bueller. And they scored three or
less runs thirteen times in twenty nine games. Thirteen times
with three or less runs and not to mention throwing
in I just mentioned the other hottest hitter on the planet,
maybe besides Shohey and Schwarber, is Bryce Harper. Now he
wasn't there for that whole twenty nine game run. He
missed the first eleven games of that, but over the

(13:02):
last eighteen games, Bryce is hitting two ninety four with
a ten to forty seven OPS. We are nine and
nine in those games, while Schwarber's doing what he's doing,
while Bryce is doing what he's doing, while Wheeler and
Sanchez and Suarez and our pitchers are doing what they're doing,
and people can point to the to the bullpen all
they want. I think scoring two runs in nine of

(13:25):
twenty nine games or three runs in thirteen of twenty
nine games is much more of a factor of why
this team has not separated from the Mets, and there's
still actually a half game behind the Mets as we
sit here this morning, and people are going to point
to the bullpen, and people want us to go get
Joan Duran, Griffin, Jacks, Annuel Classe, Robert Suarez, Ryan Helsley,

(13:47):
whatever name you want to throw out there. If it
costs legitimate assets that can go towards a bat, I'm good,
I'm out.

Speaker 5 (13:56):
Yeah, I hear on that.

Speaker 6 (13:57):
I think the answer is they need both, Like straight up,
you can't enter with the bullpen as is right now,
Like if it's a ninth inning and your options are
like Jordan Romano or Max Lazar, which is a realistic
possibility right now, that's just not a contender, Like, we
can't view it through that lens. There's gotta be some
sort of body here, Like Joe Ross is not panned out,
Jordan Romano is not that guy struggling even in low

(14:17):
leverage situations. At this point here, I still like Strom,
Ryan Kirkering is still nails, like they have pieces. It's
not nothing, but it's just so much pressure on the
starting pitching, which is the strength of this team, to
get you to the spot where you can realistically carve
a path to finish the game in a successful fashion.
Here that's a ton and frankly as great as guys
like Zach Wheeler, Christ Paher Sanchez are, Ranger Suarez who's

(14:39):
been unbelievable, Hasu's Lozardo even showing a little bit shakiness
of late, although I do think he will be fine.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
The stretch stuff is bizarre to me.

Speaker 6 (14:46):
But when I say like this is the most impressive
or most important deadline of this Phillies era, I think
it ties right back to the inactivity of the offseason
that they dug through the bargain bin, and none of
these guys are playing above their heads. Max Kepler is
not the everyday loft fielder that they hope for. I've
seen enough of the Max Coupler experience here that's only
compounded when you talk about the center field issue. It's
the same situation that we knew we were in with

(15:07):
Johann Rohas and Brandon Marsh, who are just exactly who
they are going to be. There is not this untapped
potential or them finding it. I think Brandon Marsh played
a bit above his head when he first got to
Philadelphia and we've sort.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Of Crandon Marsh has been the same guy against righties
this year, since since June first, that he's always been.

Speaker 6 (15:24):
He just can't hit lefties, Yeah, which is fair, but
like again, we know who they are like that, that
is like your options here. And then when you talk
about the other additions like Lozardo, as I mentioned, has
been a bit shaky of late. I think he'll be
fine and I think he'll be able to eat some
bullpen innings when we talk about the playoff picture, like
that'll be a guy that shifted out there.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
But I don't know.

Speaker 5 (15:42):
It feels like.

Speaker 6 (15:43):
The top end talent of this team is here, but
there's so many unchecked boxes for like actually labeling. Is
this a team I can genuinely look at as a contender?
Despite that, the top guys can cover up a lot
of those flaws.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Now what are we talking about though? As far as
you know, what do we got to send out for this?
Because everybody says, you know, you got to show up
the bullpen, you got to shop the outfiel, What are
you willing to part with? Right? Everybody wants something they
don't want to pay. They don't want to pay anything
for it. Right, Like, you're gonna have to give up
something of value, whether it's Aden Miller or whatever. I
don't know whatever you want to give up in that
farm system, but you're gonna have to give up something
of value if you want to close. You want to,
You want to somebody in that bullpen who's gonna be

(16:15):
a legit guy. You can go to an eighth or
eighth inning. And a lot of people say they want
these guys, but they don't want to give up anything,
Like you gotta you gotta cut bait somehow.

Speaker 6 (16:22):
Tell me why we should be why I care about
keeping Aid Miller in the Phillies organization?

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Well, I so my take on the prospects is I'm
actually outside of Painter. I'm not protective of any particular
Phillies prospect. What I do like and what I think
is important with a team that has the contracts and
the eight and assuming we're going to add another short
or contract to that, God willing, hopefully, I'm not worried

(16:49):
about it. I will. We've talked about it so many times.
But I think Dombrowski, he's talked about how important he
is in the clubhouse. He's the best, quote unquote, the
best clubhouse guy he's ever been around in his history
of his career in baseball. All going up day, not
today's Ron Middleton. Keep what Middleton said about Schwarber, how
he he doesn't have to be convinced how important Schwarber

(17:10):
is to keep. We know, I'm not worried about it
at all. I feel the same way I thought about Nola,
where I was not worried we were gonna let Nola walk,
and you know, maybe that was a mistake. But we
have all these contracts, we have all these guys who
are aging, we have the best farm system we've had
probably in my lifetime at this point, or at least

(17:31):
dating back to when we had Leah Howard. It's hard
to I wasn't following prospects when I was eight years old,
but I dating back to when we brought that core up,
this is the best farm system it's been because Ruben Tomorrow,
you know, ruined it every chance he could. It was
terrible in the mid twenty tens when you know that
we had a parade of idiots running the team, and

(17:53):
then it hasn't been very good up until the Nebrawski
era and Debrowski. There was that tweet going around all
the trades he's made, it's not he. I've made the argument,
like I think if you look at trades and free agents,
hard case Nebrawski has been anything but average. Most of
the guys that we brought here were or most of
the guys that are contributing on this team were brought

(18:15):
here before him. Schwerber, amazing move by him. Castiano's kind
of a shrunk. Trey probably a bad move. Nola probably
a bad move. Like there there's been some bad moves.
What he has done is he's built a farm system
and built prospects and built the minor leagues to be
something where maybe we can continue this window after these

(18:37):
next two or three years where we have the guys
in the prime, where if you have guys like Miller
and Tayee and Escobar and Painter and the guy they
drafted a gauge Wood and burke Holder and Ringcones, and
that they have just niner like ninish guys who are
interesting prospects, and maybe that means you should trade some
of them. And I think that that's I want to

(18:58):
I definitely want to trade a couple of them. I
don't want to empty the cupboard. I probably don't want
to do two big moves, Like I think I'm probably
in for one big move, and I think that big
move should be for a bat. And then I think
I think they should do with the bullpen what they've
kind of always done at the deadline, when they went
and got Robertson in twenty two, when they went and
got Estevez last year in twenty four. Give up a

(19:20):
non top seven prospect from your organization, Maybe give up
multiple top twenty prospects instead of a top ten prospect.
But there are ways to add in the bullpen. Lozardo,
I think I'm more confident than ever that this guy's
just like a bullpen arm like, yeah, I think he
runs into these problems in the fourth and fifth ending.

(19:42):
I get that you can point that the stretch could
be a problem in the bullpen. I mean, if this
stretch becomes a problem, you have a three batter minimum.
You can take him out of the game. It's a bullpen.
So I think he goes in there as your second
lefty behind Strom. You have Kirkering. That gives you three
arms you should feel good about in the pen, and
then I think the rest of this year is about

(20:02):
figuring out which guy you can trust out of the
young arms, and you look at the numbers on the
young arms, like Tanner Banks three four e ra A Like,
I think that guy can be an option at this point.

Speaker 5 (20:14):
I'm not Tom Walker.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
That's a little bit of a different story. Taiwan does
not have bullpen translatable, so it's amazing. I really do
not understand how he doesn't get shelld It's and Tanner
Banks is similar because I don't think his stuff is
very impressive. But he was pretty good last year for us,
Like he was little four y r A guy last
year and now he's three four.

Speaker 5 (20:40):
Bullpen arm right now.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Exactly, Well, I think what it says is that they're
a little bit weak in the bullpen, but they're going
to have multiple arms come up, Like Lozardo's going to
be a bullpen armed. There's a chance Painter is a
bullpen arm. There's a chance the guy they drafted is
a bullpen arm. There's a chance that I'm I mean,
I think Lazarre Banks, Seth Johnson, Alan Wrangles, and Daniel

(21:06):
Robert all have eres under three four.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
Daniel roberts forty three, I mean, David Robinson or whatever
the forty year old they brought in as well or
brought back. I guess I should say that. And Robert,
I don't know if I'm buying this stuff in general.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Why didn't even Robertson's going to be an important part
of this bullpen. That's a I mean, that's like another
point to my favor I think like they I love
the Robertson move because I think that's the type of
bullpen move they should be making in this era. Last
year we had the best bullpen in baseball? What did

(21:42):
that mean? When we got to the playoffs and nothing?
They fell apart, collapsed. In twenty twenty two, we had
the worst bullpen of this playoff era twenty two, twenty three,
twenty four. By far the worst of those three years
was twenty twenty two. They were by far the best
in the playoffs. I think bullpen is so a small
sample size just by the nature of it that it's

(22:03):
so it's like it's like defense in the NFL, like
it's so up and down, it's so regression based. Like
I'm I think last year I felt so good about
that bullpen. It was the main reason I felt good
about a playoff run with that team, despite the struggles
down the stretch, and we got to the playoffs and

(22:24):
it meant nothing and that kind of changed the way.
And also not to mention the Texas Rangers in twenty
twenty three had the worst bullpen in baseball and went
and won the World Series, And I mean the bullpen
prevented them from winning the division. They collapsed. Houston won
the division, Texas had to go to the Wildcard. But
it were all just Chapman then pitched to like an

(22:45):
zero point three era in the playoffs, and Chris Martin
pitched to like a one to three like their bullpen
figured it out. I think they moved one of their
starters might have been Dane Dunning at the time, I
can't remember, but they moved one of their starters to
the bullpen. He worked out per Like, I think that
stuff happens. And when you look at how good our
rotation is and how good at the top of the

(23:08):
lineup can be, I just think I would so much
rather go out a bat, And I think the lineup
immediately becomes a strength. If you go out and you
add a legitimate bat and we'll talk about some options,
I think the lineup becomes a strength. I don't think
the bullpen's going to become a strength. I think it's
probably we're just hoping it's passable. And I'm fine with that.
I don't think, you know, even if you go get
an elite closer, like I think they'll be above average.

(23:30):
But like the elite, I mean class was pretty bad.
Yeah last year or two years ago, Like there's just
so much regression with these guys. But anyway, one thing,
let me get this off here about the bats, some
of the options, every name that comes up. The problem
is I'm kind of like Luke warming out on because

(23:51):
I look at the problem with this lineup is power. Yeah,
I don't want a three hundred hitter who hits ten
homers a year, Like I don't think that's what this
lineup needs. I think we have Trey Turner, we have
a couple other guys who hit for average but no power.
Alec Boonem Absolutely, I don't want to trade for for
Duran or Kwan. They're both really good players. Borderline all

(24:12):
stars mean I mean Kwan is an All Star. I
think Duran probably could be, and neither guy brings what
we need. O'Neil Kruz. I've called him on this show
the most overrated athlete on the planet. He has a
career six point three war in his five years. He
missed most of two years. But you could say, oh,
that's that's why that war argument is not that fair. Well,
that means he's still averaging about two war in his

(24:33):
other three years, and it also means that he's injury prone.
But that's another conversation. All of our answers, in my opinion,
lie in the Angels outfield. It's Angels in the Outfield,
a classic McConaughey motion picture. Obviously we could have a
useless Smike shock conversation. I'm all in no chance that
happens moving on or a solar, he's basically going to

(24:55):
be free and he's having a rough year. He even
in his rough year, he still has like a seven
twenty OPS against lefties, thirty six homers in twenty twenty three,
twenty seven homers in twenty twenty one, and a World
Series MVP in that year where he got traded at
the deadline when he wasn't having that good of a
year and then got hot for Atlanta forty eight homers
in twenty nineteen. And then we talk about the two

(25:17):
names that I'm hyper focused on, the two names above
all across baseball that I'm hyper focused on for the Phillies.
They're not going to be the sexy names that get
the casuals excited, and that's fine because I think they'd
be the perfect, perfect editions. Taylor Ward has twenty three
home runs, already had twenty five last year. Seven eighty
six ops the most important stat with Ward, he had

(25:40):
a nine to twenty four OPS against lefties, while still
he is a seven fifty four OPS against righties. That's passable.
You can play that. It's basically what we're doing with
castianos every day. And he's nine twenty four ops against lefties,
and that's not a blip. He has a career eight
twenty ops against lefties. No matter what, you know, this
guy's gonna rake when there's a lefty on the mound,

(26:00):
which is absolutely a huge thing that this lineup needs.
When Marsha and Ja and Rojas can't hit anybody, but
Marsh can't hit lefties, you need an outfielder that can
come in and hit left handed pitching. He's an average
left fielder. He's greated out basically around zero defensive run saved,
which just means the league average, totally fine, good enough
to get by. But the name that I'm even more

(26:22):
focused on than Taylor Ward. And I would get really
really excited about Taylor Award, and I think he might
even be more likely in some ways, but Joe Adell
has become the name I've become obsessed with. He's really
put it together this year, but especially since May. He
had a rough April. Since May sixth, he is hitting

(26:45):
two fifty eight with an eight eighty one OPS and
nineteen homers in his last seventy games. He has one
thousand ops against lefties in that time span and if
you look at the full year eight thirty eight ops
against left handed pitch, I am all in on Joe
Adell pushing right chips to the middle of the table. Also,

(27:06):
he's twenty six years old. You have him for three
years of team control after this year, so you have
him through his age twenty nine season. I would give
up legitimate assets for him. I don't know if it
would cost legitimate assets. I'm really curious. Maybe it would
because he's still young. The Angels might still, you know,
have you know, interested in just keeping him because they

(27:26):
have him cheap for the next couple of years. But
he's the name even above Eugenio Suarez that I would
want at this deadline, and I'm in on Suarez. I'll,
you know, make it work. Whether it's Bone DHS he
plays third and Bryce plays first. Maybe Suarez DHS, Bone
plays third, Brice plays first, Swarber plays left. Whatever you
have to do, Bryce plays left. I think that's kind

(27:48):
of not likely. He just had like an elbow injury.
People keep talking about it, and people are referencing quotes
that happened in March. I think that's before he had
a miss time with an elbow like I'm not really
of the opinion that that's gonna happen.

Speaker 6 (28:04):
So I do see the world I could see, however,
Kyle Schwarber come being brought back to play a little
left field and using Bryce's DH or something along those
lines there not great, But I think, like, to me,
Suarez is one of those bats that you find a
way to make it work that I absolutely be in
the Dude's got thirty six home runs already this year, Like,
that's crazy stuff to be adding to this Phillies line
up here, and that's exactly what they should be interested

(28:25):
in doing. So Suarez is like the outlier in this
to me that I would be all in finding way
to make it work, and that is the guy at
the top of my list it Dell's.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Been hitting homes at a similar pace since since early May.

Speaker 6 (28:37):
But I'll note as well, I'm more of a team
empty the cupboard kind of guy here that I don't
really have this care that I feel like right now,
this core, we know we have the top end guys,
and the hardest part about building a winning baseball team
is getting those stars that are good enough. The Phillies
have that they have to fill in the gaps around
it here, And why do I care if I'm trading
potential All Star season from Aiden Miller in twenty thirty two,

(28:59):
which by the trade, Turner will still be under contract
for it here. That's the point, yeah, And I just
feel so much more confident taking a gamble on these
names that we mentioned, which you know trades a risk
as well, But when you have a legitimate sample size
of what these guys look like against major league talent
playing at that level here, that means so much more
to me than what we're seeing from guys in Double
A or what they could theoretically grow into as a

(29:21):
baseball player. Even the Andrew Paynter stuff, like, I Painter
is a guy that should be viewed in different light
than any of these other prospects here, But it does
feel like they talk about him in such certainty of
this guy's a short fired ace when realistically, like let's
just pump the brakes a little bit, Like even the
call him up this year stuff, It's like, I don't
really see the pathway to him making an impact on

(29:41):
this Phillies team this year.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
I don't know, it just feels a bit premature.

Speaker 6 (29:45):
I would say the grounding of Andrew Paynter in some
of the way that these prospects are talked about.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
I think if he was on twenty nine teams, he'd
be up already. But the rotation that the Phillies have
had all year until now, I don't think has been
the push to get him up that he would have.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
Had elsewhere, not tearing it up at the miners like
he's been.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
No, No, I think I think that's all with a
grain of salid. I think we tinker with stuff when
we're in the miners. If you look at a lot
of Phillies Minor League guys, and the Philly has done
a good job developing pictures at this point, still one
thing we can say that they've done done a good
job on. So Yeah, I mean it's a I get
what you're saying, Like I you know, there's three that
we have these two years with Wheeler three years maybe,

(30:25):
but I get that. I don't want to do the
rubin Tomorrow junior plan where you get rid of everything
and now we're screwed for ten years after, because I've
seen it.

Speaker 6 (30:36):
Yeah, and there's certainly middle ground to all this, I
think they I'm preaching.

Speaker 5 (30:42):
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 6 (30:42):
I would phrase it as if there's not a trade
that I think like moves the needle for this Phillies team.

Speaker 5 (30:47):
Then this is an actually help move the needle.

Speaker 6 (30:50):
Yes he does. Taylor Ward, Yes, I like Taylor a lot.
Both those names.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
I like those.

Speaker 5 (30:56):
Not as much.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (30:58):
I feel similar with you that they're good baseball players.
But I want power. I want guys that are going
to change things. Like Stephen, they're obviously upgrades based on
what we have here, and with like Kepler being just
has turned into a massive disappointment. It went from he's
like okay to now it's just like this is straight
up frustrating and disappointing here that I do not want
to see you in a Phillies jersey. I don't think either
of those guys like moves the needle for what are

(31:20):
the actual playoffs outlook?

Speaker 5 (31:22):
Here, I was the one to throw in.

Speaker 6 (31:23):
I feel like the Casianos noise continues to circle a
little bit.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
Do you take any take that with any grain of seriousness?

Speaker 3 (31:29):
I as a blanket statement, I don't want to trade
anyone who could even potentially help a Phillies playoff run,
whether it's Stott Boom Castianos, guys who I'm not even
high on. I don't want to trade any of them.
If you're going to get rid of guys, get rid
of guys for the future, get rid of prospects, which
I don't want to get rid of too many prospects.
But I don't see the need. It's I think that's

(31:53):
the money thing. Yeah, if anything, and I don't care
about John Middleton's cigar money any made so.

Speaker 6 (31:59):
I creates more of a problem than it solves. Like,
say what you want about Fanos, who's far from the
perfect baseball player, but he was their most consistent hitter
in last year's postseason and he's been the only stable
part of this outfield all year.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Agreed, Yeah, Roy, anything anything to add it? No?

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Just one point? Nick cass not in the lineup today?
So read is that how you want to?

Speaker 3 (32:20):
It is interesting. I really don't want to. I really
don't think it would be smart too, considering hit her
in our outfield right now. And that's not saying a lot.
But I just give me the whole Angels outfield, Give
me Taylor Award, give me Joe Adell, give me where
I So.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Are there going to be sellers? Are we sure they're
four and a half back on a wildcard?

Speaker 3 (32:40):
I mean they should be, but they.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Always should be. Yeah, Angels, you know they're never good.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Definitely should be. But I think there are rumors that
they have been shopping guys like Kenley Janssen, and I
think there are some rumors out there at least. So
I feel like if they were five hundred and they
were four games out, it'd be easier to vince yourself.
But being like four games under five hundred, even though
the wild card is just like a low a loon
bar to get to this year, I feel like that'll

(33:08):
make it easier to sell, even if that's a dumb
way to look at it. But real quick, before we
actually you know what, let's take a break and on
the other side, we'll talk some NFL going down the
NFC win totals for the Tough Goot Radio Show.

Speaker 8 (33:23):
Back after this The Gambler, Philly's home for all things
sports gambling.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Welcome back to the Tough Cover Radio Show. I am
your host, Mark Kea Vintinia. We've got Royd and Sean
Bernard with me talking all things. We just talk about
the hot stove. We're talking NFL going forward. But Roy
and I are are big wrestling guys and and insanely

(34:11):
incredibly important and complicated human being in the history of
professional wrestling passed away yesterday in hul Cogan. I'll let
Roy have the stage. Roy, he was I imagine you
came up with hul Cogan. You came up, you were

(34:31):
probably a hulk maniac. If I'm kind of thinking about
the timelines right way back in the day, give people
a little kind of insight. The text that set me off,
Sam Austrey like, I'm totally unfamiliar with hul Cogan.

Speaker 6 (34:50):
I will say, to interject you, even as a non
wrestling guy, I did think that was crazy that I've
never been much of a w W watch.

Speaker 5 (34:56):
I've been well aware who hul Cogan is.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
He's been in the news a little in some pretty
negative ways. But Roy, I'll let you kind of have
the stage here.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, no show. Yeah that's Sam. Lastreet tweet in our
text in the chat was a little weird to me
as well, because again, hul Cogan is the biggest, you know,
at least on screen, you know, wrestling figure in the
history of the business, full stop. Right again, you can
debate whether or not, you know, Vince mcmann's more important
an he maybe, but with hul Coogan was professional wrestling.

(35:28):
I mean, we wouldn't be where we are today without
hul Cogan. There's no WrestleMania without hul Cogan. There's no
The Rock is not the Rock without hul Cogan. You know,
Stone Cold, all the big stars of today, John Tina,
they're not where they are today if the hul Cogan
wasn't the guy who carried the torch for w w
F back you know, that's what it was known back
then in the eighties. I mean, the man was everywhere,
like you know, he had his own cartoon, you know,

(35:49):
he had his own ice cream sandwiches, like they would
preempt Saturday Night Live to show, you know, Saturday Night's
main event, you know, once a month on NBC, on
broadcast net, on broadcast television. Just the just the impact
that Hulkogan had on the wrestling business cannot be overstated.
I mean that that's how important that he was to
the wrestling business. But mark to your point again, very

(36:11):
complicated legacy. Obviously, we know everything you know about the
sex tape that was released, and you know, the racist
things that he said on that and you know all
the other things that have kind of like, you know,
caused people to sour on Hulk Hogan. But just as
a as a figure in the world of professional wrestling,
there's literally no one bigger and will be no one
bigger than than Hulkogan, maybe literally and figuratively.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
I guess it's interesting to me, and you know I
have I didn't grow up with Hulk in a different
way like I guess I did.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
You did, by the way, right, the older version of.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Ulk, and I tweeted it out the other yesterday, the
first pay per view. I remember, like I have some
two thousand and one vhs is. My dad was a fan.
I had cousins that were all in and uncles that
were all in a big wrestling fan family. So we
have I like I have Invasion on VHS. I'm sure
I watched it in the room. And I'm sure we

(37:08):
have Survivor Series, oh one, like we have some of those,
some of those VHS's and we still have them in
a bin. The one I remember watching and sitting there
live for was wrestling at eighteen with Hulk Hogan in
the Rock and I was a rock guy. Gros even
as a kid, had like as a wrestler, he was
my favorite wrestler I had like I loved the Rocks
And maybe that's why I remember that, and that that

(37:31):
was probably the most important match Rock ever wrestled, potentially
right up there with a couple of Austin matches in there, probably,
So I have some childhood memories of Hulk, but Hulk
was always kind of like, oh, that dinosaur like, so
I always kind of grew up with this a little
bit of the negative view of Hulk. And then when

(37:52):
you become a smart wrestling fan, a smart as the
Internet would say, or an Internet wrestling fan, like, it's
almost like embedded in you to hate Hul Cogan and
to you know that guy was so overrated. But even
holding all of those opinions that I may still hold
some of the more you dive into this, you know
the history of professional wrestling. I think the most interesting

(38:16):
part of the Hull Cogan legacy to me is WCW
and the nWo. And he basically made a second promotion
work and WCW competes with w WF and beats them
for multiple years. The nWo become we just played it
on the intro. Here the nWo becomes one of the

(38:38):
most iconic things in the history of wrestling. Hulk, maybe
you could make the argument is the best at being
both a good guy and a bad guy, a babyface
and a heel. For the rest evants out there, I
think Sean Michaels and Brett Hart probably are right there
with him, potentially frets heel run was short, but something

(38:58):
long long love for short, drink of water here but
an interesting in an interesting way. I feel like a
lot of wrestlers were able to put aside the the
art from the artist. I guess in some way, Rick
Flair I met ric Flair in person. I wouldn't say
Rick Flair is a shining example of like a good
human being. Maybe, and I think you could say that

(39:22):
for a lot of people. For whatever reason, the stink
that Hull Cogan has provided as a human Terry Blea,
I guess I should say has provided as a human
being feels more clung to hul Cogan than it does
for some of the other And maybe that's because his
character was say your prayers, take your vitamins. I'm a

(39:45):
role model. It's in some ways a shame that I
think the most you know, you just said, maybe the
most important leg or maybe the most important figure in
the history of wrestling, I think has to be.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Well and by the way one another.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
That'll be one day, but probably even more comp It's
insane that the two most maybe important figures in the
history of wrestling you can't even really appreciate their legacy
when they die. And I'm not saying that that's right
or wrong or commenting on it. It's interesting to me that,

(40:30):
I mean, I don't think Undertaker is a good person.
When Undertaker dies, I'm gonna be really sad, and I'm
gonna remember the good things and remember the legacy and
not that he constantly is wearing Blue Lives Matter stuff
and things like that, Like I'm gonna be able to
put that aside. And maybe that's just he didn't say
what Hulk said on camera and then have the reaction

(40:50):
that Hulk add to that, And maybe there would have
been ways for Hulk to build bridges and try to
and I think Big E and other wrestlers in the
ww at the time tried to give him that bridge
to walk over and apologize and make amends and do
whatever he was gonna do for the community and get

(41:11):
involved and be careful what you're saying. People are recording, brother,
Like it became my voice did not I'm a little
sick over here. My voice did not allow for a
full whole compression there. But when he came back and
they gave him the platform to apologize to the black
talent on the roster, and he came back and made

(41:31):
it a people are out to get you, brother, They
might record you while you're having sex with your friend's wife. Brother, Like, yeah,
he really it might have been the reaction just as
much as the offense that really buried him and in
many ways, and not to mention him campaigning for the

(41:53):
current president of the United States. Who you know is
he's having a normal month right now, normal week, nothing
than weird going on there. But I would say it's
a damn shame Hulk Cogan didn't die eleven years ago,
and that's a sad thing to say. But if he
dies eleven years ago at sixty years old and twenty
fifteen and none of this happened, imagine how different today is,

(42:18):
or imagine how different the reaction, and it would be
the lead story on ESPN, which it might be in
some ways already if you go on the website yesterday,
but it would be. I mean, I remember when Rick
Flair went in his coma what was that eight years ago?
Seven years ago, it seemed like we were it seemed
like he was gonna die. We all kind of accepted

(42:39):
at that moment, like, oh, Ray Flare's gonna talk. That
felt ten x what this feels like right now. And
Holt's dead and Rick wasn't even dead at the time,
So it's interesting. It's interesting.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Well, I mean, just to kind of go back to
your point, I think this is interesting because you know,
we saw it, right, We saw you know, Hulks transgressions,
like you know, most of the people that we you know,
we root for that we you know that we watch
on TV, wrestling sports, whatever, Like they're not necessarily the
best people in the world. We just don't know. They're dirt, right,
Like we know Hulks dirt. We everybody saw it and
we understand that. And to your point again, like this

(43:12):
is the guy, same guy who you know when when
I was young, before you guys were born, you know,
he was a you know, trained hard say your prayers,
take your vitamins, like you know, like just the kind
of the shining example of what everybody should be, right,
like what everybody should be. I mean, like this is
the guy that you know, he slammed, you know, Andrew
the giant in WrestleMania, like the greatest mode of all time,
Like the guy we all you know, wanted to be,
we wanted to grow up, grow up to be and

(43:33):
then he just turns out to be a terrible human being.
And so it's like all right, you know, for.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
People who don't know, went on our senio hall and
lied blatantly about taking steroids and it got ww in
a lot of trouble. His comments on our studio hall
came it became like a big thing in court where
he had to well, Terry Belea and hul Coogan are
two different people. It's it's there's some skeletons in the

(43:58):
closet beyond on even what we're bringing up, and not
to mention, you know, how many people he held down.
That's like ten x less of an issue than the
other things we're talking about. But you know, WrestleMania nine,
there's a certain I know Roy and I big Brett

(44:19):
Hart fans and Brett Hart to this day. Asked Brett
Heart about whole cogen and Wh'll tell you about how
he felt about WrestleMania nine for about a half hour.
And there's a lot of complicated even just within wrestling,
there's a lot of complicated. You know, Jesse Ventura tried
to unionize professional wrestling, which he was correct in the

(44:42):
eighties and Jesse's I love Jesse Ventura, but Jesse uh
tried to unionize professional wrestling against you know, the promoters,
and Hulk went and ratted and tattletale de Vince and
basically and did the Jesse venture eventual WF relationship eventually.
So yeah, just interesting, interesting conversation that I had to

(45:05):
bring up, even if it's not a nice one. It's
it's more set like Roy and I being big wrestling
fans are accustomed to wrestlers dying, and it's less so
a little bit recently there's been a bit of a
dry spell of you know, wrestlers dying. But go look

(45:25):
from two thousand to twenty fifteen, every hero of Roy
and I's childhood it felt like was dying on a
monthly basis of drugs or different you know, different deaths,
and as a wrestling fan, you get a little bit
like jaded. I think to hearing wrestler deaths who like

(45:46):
there's still I feel like this is a sad, morbid
thing to say. I think we're going to enter like
another era.

Speaker 9 (45:53):
Here of some pretty sad wrestler deaths of that era,
of the guys who have held on, like Rick Flair
and like some of those other iconic figures of the
eighties that.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Are still hanging on. So I don't know a sad
thing about being a wrestling fan, I guess, but I
had to talk about it. We're gonna take a break
and on the other side, the second hour of this show,
it will be much lighter than that. It'll be a
full on NFC breakdown of the sixteen teams and their
win totals.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Back after this number one on your car radio preset
hand the new and improved Diehard Radio app WD Yes
and WD two seven break d Philadelphia is Fox Sports
Radio The Gambler.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Do you remember? Welcome back to the Tough Cover Radio Show.
Second hour Here gonna talk some NFC wind tools, going
down all sixteen teams. Just a couple jabs to clean
up last hour. Saw it just saw a funny tweet.
Randy Orton had the final match with Hulk Hogan, Triple

(47:15):
h and Dusty Rhodes, so he really is the legend
Killer Orton, And then a couple of jobs. On baseball,
Scott Lauber said Eugenio, the Phillies and Diamondbacks have talked
on Eugenio Suarez, so confirmed the Phillies are in contact
with Arizona. On Boyd, I think the prize of the deadline,

(47:37):
I would prefer Order Adell, but he is probably the
best player just from a just a vacuum standpoint that
will get traded at the deadline, unless Joe Ryning is traded,
which doesn't sound like he is also from the Angels standpoint.
This was out there last night. I just saw it
when I was searching for some stuff here. The Angels
are willing to trade anybody that is done expiring inspiring

(48:00):
contract this year. But they also said Taylor Ward, who's
controllable through next year, can be had for the right price.
Joel Joe Adell was not mentioned, so I don't know
if that means Joe Adele is not available but so
available and Taylor Award very much available. Just a couple
of things, and then one last thing that I wanted

(48:21):
to bring up. I sent this tweet to cham Bernard
before the show today, and there's not really a college
portion of this show, but Penn State's you know, trusted leader,
hen head coach and winner of big games, James Franklin
Big game James on the Orange Bowl last year, which

(48:42):
happened seven months ago. By the way, good thing to
be making excuses about seven months ago. Notre Dame does
not win that game if they are in a conference
like everyone else, we were worn down after going through
the grind of a Big Ten schedule. They didn't have
to play teams like USC and Purdue. We did remind me, fellas,

(49:06):
who is Notre Dame's oldest rival, who they play every
year on a rotating basis home and away and have
played for one hundred plus years. One of the two
teams that James Franklin mentioned in US. I'll answer my
question really really funny to mention USC is one of
those teams. By the way, Penn State got a buy

(49:27):
in the first round and then was so worn down
when they played Notre Dame by getting by Boise State
in SMU. They were just those teams were so good
and they were so worn down. You know, Notre Dame
had to play little old Georgia. You know, the week
before they had an easy path. You know, they had
to play Georgia. You know, no big deal. Notre Dame

(49:47):
had a harder strength of schedule than Penn State last year.
Like James Franklin is such a loser, and this is
the guy that every magazine and Phil Steele and all
the losers out there are picking to win the national championship.

Speaker 10 (50:08):
He's never going to have an easier path than he
had last year, and he couldn't do it. He's talking
about his team being worn down. Guess who was worn
down Notre Dame. Three of their six draft picks were
out when they played Penn State. Their highest draft pick,
Benjamin Morrison, missed the entire second half.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Of the season, So Notre Dame was plenty worn down.
Riley Leonard was playing injured in the playoffs, like they
were plenty. Jeremiah Love was playing with a big brace
on his knee and got like four carries against Indiana,
Like we were playing extremely injured and extremely worn down

(50:48):
and had to beat Indiana, who, by the way, dominated
your little rinky dink Big ten Indiana beat every team
you want to throw at me about, oh we didn't
play Perdue. Oh yeah, two and ten Perdue last year
really beefed up Notre Dame schedule. And so they go
out and they beat Big ten Indiana, wipe the floor
with them. And then they go out and they beat

(51:08):
the SEC champions in Georgia. And then they beat you
because Drew. Because Drew Aller didn't complete a pass to
a wide receiver in the game, James, maybe that had
a bigger Maybe is that worn down where your wide
receivers worn down? Like an unbelievable loser. Quote, Yeah, and

(51:30):
it's not getting nearly enough attention.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
And that's the biggest point I was gonna bring.

Speaker 6 (51:34):
Is beyond just the logic that you can kind of
poke holes in on the actual statement. It just is
an era of loser that it just puts out for
making excuses and doing this this far removed from the
situation as a whole that I do think speaks a
little bit about James Franklin there. So they're kind of
running it back. Drew Allerc is still gonna be kicking
out there in Happy Valley. You cannot wait to see
how this year goes. You're right that I've heard a

(51:55):
lot of like Penn State positive buzz. I'm not sure
if I see it that way. I don't think Big
Game James is gonna change much, but ultimately we'll see.
I hate everything about that quote, from the logic of
it to just saying it in general. It just just
has this loser stink to it, and I think that
says a lot.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
I gotta I gotta put out a disclaimer, but maybe
maybe I don't need to, because maybe the tough cover
radio audience already knows Mark Henry Junior very big Notre
Dame fan. Yes, a little bit of biased there, a
little bit of bias. So that's a disgusting, disgustingly loser
quote out of James Franklin. It's just, you know, just
own it, right, like you are the CEO of this
of the of the team. You got to own it,
right when your team doesn't come, doesn't show up to play,

(52:32):
you gotta own it. And just like you're gonna have
to own it when you probably don't win it again
this year. So I mean, like you just I can't
have my head coach talking like that that's that's just disgusting.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
It's unbelievable stuff. And it's just like, maybe I could
even like, if they would have lost to Ohio State
in the Final four and Notre Dame beat someone else
and lost to Ohio State in the championship, maybe I
could even understand, like, oh, Notre Dame got to the
championship because they had me your path or because they
weren't worn down, and maybe you could even throw the

(53:02):
conference thing out then I think throwing it out after
you guys literally played on the field, Yeah, it's crazy
to me. Like, I think it's crazy and the craziest thing.
And I brought this up with Tanzy and Beef and
Sean Brace. We're going to be doing these Wednesday college
Football pods to lead up to uh to lead up
to Week zero, I guess I should say. And my

(53:27):
biggest thing is, like I get Penn State a lot
of talent like they always have. And I would argue
just like Ohio State and Oregon and Georgia and Alabama
and all those teams always have, but for whatever reason,
Penn State this year is their talent is being talked
about almost on a level above everybody else. In the country,
which I think is crazy, and I think it's especially
crazy because who are the two best players Penn State

(53:49):
has had since Saquon Barkley.

Speaker 6 (53:52):
You guys think one's got to be Abdul Carter, Yeah, absolutely,
and then who's the second.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
I think it's probably Tyler Warren. I don't know who well.
I mean, I think he's the highest draft pick. I'm
trying to think of anybody else who would have went
top fifteen in the last seven years. I'm not I
feel like they had a lot of Joey Porter juniors
who went around like Fringe Round one, like Joey Porter
went like early round two, Miles Miles Sanders, Miles Sanders

(54:26):
went round two like they had a lot of guys
go round two. I feel like I think they had
uh Johan Dotson might have went a little higher than
one around the same around.

Speaker 5 (54:44):
Michael Park.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Good call, Michael Parsons. Absolutely absolutely, But I think what
we're talking about throwing Parsons in there, Warren and Abdul
Carters don't grow on trees at the end, State like
those are special. Those are all time Penn State players,
both of them, and people are just treating their loss like, oh,
that five star is gonna fill right in, Like Tyler

(55:08):
Warren was the entire offense. Yeah, and abdel Carter's one
of the best pass rushers we've seen as a prospect
in a decade. Like I think people are just glossing,
whereas like people are pointing out the players Oregon loss,
and it's like, yeah, they lost Derek Harmon, he's a
good player. Like they lost a couple guys in the
defensive line. Tes Johnson's like a fourth round wide receiver

(55:31):
like Dylan Gabriel. Sure they lost their quarterbacks, not like
he was like a top ten pick or anything. And
they lost pieces for sure. But like I'll bet on
if we're talking like college football coaches, you haven't won anything,
and which one do you want to make your bet on?
Give me the Dan Lanning bet ten times out of
ten over James Franklin. I'm a clacker. I'm a quacking duck.

(55:52):
This year, I'm all over Oregon. You look at their schedule,
they really only have one hard game. Let's say they
lose an Happy Valley, which that would mean James has
to win a big game. So I'm skeptical of that.
But Oregon's really only tough game this year, and that
vaunted Big Ten is going to be going to Penn State.
Let's say they go eleven and one, they'll be in
the Big Ten Championship over the playoff. Anyway, I'm a

(56:15):
believer and a buyer, and Dan Lanning much more than
James Franklin and Penn State.

Speaker 6 (56:19):
Yeah, and I did not and do not like Dylan
Gabriel whatsoever. So my Oregon belief could come back a
little bit this year. I also note, according to Jerry Jones,
it is now Michael Parsons is.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Michel Parson, Michael Parker.

Speaker 6 (56:33):
Yeah, it has a disaster down there in Dallas dealing
with all that, but I'm enjoying it from afar.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
You mean Michael Parson, the guy who won't show up
for you know, a third of the season.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
That guy, yeah, missed Like I think I read that
he only missed like five or six games. I believe
I think it was like he like grossly overestimated how
many games he missed, even when he said it so.

Speaker 6 (56:53):
Taking shots at Dak too, and the same thing, like
we paid him to be one of the highest paid
quarterbacks and he wasn't there. And it's like sure, but
you really want to say it like that, he doesn't
know what he's saying.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Let's go ahead and move it over to the NFC
and the win totals. Let's start right here. I don't
think we got to spend too long on this. I
know where we're all gonna be. Philadelphia Eagles went fourteen
to three last year. They want a little thing called
the Super Bowl. Win total is eleven and a half.
They have a new offensive coordinator, Josh uce Is, He's
a Zulari, Dora Jackson, John Campbell, you lose Milton Williams,

(57:29):
Josh Swat, Shauncey, mckaye, Becton. I have them at twelve
and five. So this isn't actually a win total that
I would be hammering or taking. I would let this
one lie. Eleven and a half just really high number.
You miss it, maybe Jalen misses two three games, and
then that comes a real big problem for getting over
that number. Really tough schedule. But if I'm picking everyone,

(57:52):
I'm going over.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
I'm going over.

Speaker 6 (57:54):
You could probably list this at sixteen and a half
and I might ride you over. From an Eagles perspective,
this year back in I'm locked in I don't think
there's gonna be much of a Super Bowl hangover whatsoever.
I think the team is that you could make the
case that they got slightly better in areas.

Speaker 5 (58:08):
I think defenses.

Speaker 6 (58:08):
I think Joe hot Campbell is gonna be more of
an impact player than I initially expected, and I think
that he will make some sort of rookie year impact.
And I'm mining they're the Philadelphia Eagles to the Super
Bowl champs. You can't can't get me to get off
that take.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
There. You got questions at safety, you got questions at
cornerback too, you have questions at linebacker. That being said,
I'm still taking the over. I mean, look, you got
your offense is basically back from last year, and this is,
you know, an offense that you know just ran for well,
Saquon Barkley himself ran for two thousand yards, you know,
and when Jalen Hurt is playing at you know, a
high level like this is just you know, a team
that's very hard to stop offensively. And I don't care

(58:42):
about the new coordinator. Like Mark said, like you know,
I'll take the over. I wouldn't smash it, but I
think twelve wins. I think is a is almost a
floor for this team.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
By the way, Jalen Hurts in I've made a lot
of jokes that Joel Embiid's the main character of the NBA,
because in a lot of stretches of time it has
felt like that, even in you know, for good and Bad,
it's like a show you don't want to wi. Negative
things keep happening to the main character, but people crap

(59:13):
on him the whole time. In a much different way,
but similar, Jalen hurts right now is the main character
of the NFL going into this year, and I understand
that some of that is for nonsense criticism from in
my and Cam Newton, a guy who I kind of
grew up with, and I think he's the best college
player I've ever seen. I really really loved early Superman

(59:36):
Cam in Carolina. Let me just say he is the
worst analyst doing it, and the worst analyst I've ever
seen do it. This is a guy who said Notre
Dame did not belong in the college Football Playoff last
year and then continued to say that up till the
point that they made the National Championship and said, who
wants to see Notre Dame in the National Title Game.
Can we get someone else in there? Well, good thing,

(59:57):
we had a twelve team playoffs that you said they
didn't belong and that they won their way there. But
Cam Newton just will mild whatever happens to his take,
and he's not going to change his take no matter
how asinin in it is. So people should not take
anything he says seriously, even though I grew up loving
the guy. But and it becoming like a Cam versus
Jalen NFL player versus NFL player is stupid. Other than

(01:00:20):
what I will say is Cam is a loser and
Jalen is a winner. That's the difference that I'd say Cam,
you know, came out and this has nothing to do
with the Jalen thing. But Cam saying oh, I wouldn't
give up my MVP for a Super Bowl ring, I
think says everything about the difference.

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
Yeah, one hundred percent there.

Speaker 6 (01:00:39):
And also like when we watch Cam Newton get to
the pedestal, get to the Super Bowl, come up short
and then that was sort of the end of the Yeah,
the diving off the fumble, which should continue to stick
with him forever. That was like a jaw dropping moment
when that happened at the time, and I know I've
seen like the clips of like Greg Olsen and Luke
Keigley coming to his defense and things like that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:58):
If you can't question how tough that guy was, blah.

Speaker 6 (01:01:00):
The bottom line is, in the biggest moment of his career,
he did make a business decision there and he was
never able to get back.

Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
I get he didn't have the best weapons about it.

Speaker 6 (01:01:07):
You can make a million cases, but I think, from
like an analyst standpoint, the way I look at it
is I think Cam Newton is the Gilbert Arenas of
NFL coverage here. I think that he's the same guy
who throws the takes out there for it being a takes,
whether he genuinely believes it or not, and he does
get glued to those there. I think it's performative. I
don't think it's honest, and I think that's I have.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
More respect for Gilbert. I have more respect for Gilbert.
I might even say it's probably not fair. I was
gonna say Gilbert was a better NBA player than Cam
was an NFL player. Can want Hill had gil had
a run, he had a Gill had a longer, a
longer prime physical that's a stupid conversation. But I know

(01:01:51):
I agree with you, Sean. There's a lot of similarities there,
I guess. I I think Gilbert is a little more
authentic than Yeah, than Cam in some ways. Uh, I
don't know why. I don't know. I'm not that plugged
in on that show for Gilbert. But the main reason
I brought that up to say, I think there's some
value in Jalen m v P me. I've talked about it.

(01:02:14):
I think just naturally, Saquon's going to regress just to
the mean. I think they're going to use him less.
I think he's probably not going to have you know,
the most efficient year ever again too, and I think
you look at we're going to be in closer games.
We're going to be in games that I think are
more shootouts. I think we're going to throw the more.
I think Jalen's numbers are going to look better. And
I still think the Eagles have a chance to be

(01:02:35):
the best team in the NFL record wise, which would
help Jalen. So I I think that there is some
value in Jalen MVP how many?

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Again, I mean, I don't expect you guys have the answer,
but how many how many quarterbacks have won the MVP
the year after winning a Super Bowl. I mean it's
probably not a lot because probably question I think a
lot of people, I think a lot of orders are
probably biased against it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
So I actually had the opposite thought that I thought
it might be Like I feel like in the NBA,
we've seen it happen where someone wins the title and
it's like, oh, yeah, let's give them the m v
P because we saw them kind of like a comp
Did that happen with one of those where he on

(01:03:17):
the title and the back I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I
feel like that's happened a lot in the NBA. I
can't think of it as much as I don't have
the role decks of NFL m vps like I do
n B A in my head, like I can kind
of go back, and I'm a bigger NFL fan, so
it's an interesting thing, but I can go back the
last ten to fifteen years and rattle off I think

(01:03:39):
the m v P for the NBA, maybe we'll save
that for a show in the future, But the NFL,
I don't think I could do that. It's like I
know Aaron Rodgers want.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
A bunch like a couple. I imagine a couple in the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Should have won this year. The by the way, I
didn't go nuts last week, Nick McClay said, yeah, I
don't really think you could fault the voters for given
the v to Josh Allen instead of Lamar. You know,
have six dozen and Royce Troy chimed up and he's like,
you're sitting in the room with someone who could complain.
I went back and looked at the stats after you
can't complain, you can still complain, and I still am

(01:04:14):
complaining and I lost out on thousands of dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I told you guys, I told you, like when if
Josh Allen goes into Detroit and and wins that game,
then he was going to be the MVP.

Speaker 6 (01:04:23):
But I also think that's an example of where like
the playoffs cloud our judgment a bit, with like the
Lamar and Josh Allen conversation, Like Lamar, I'm a Lamar
Jackson guy, but we got to acknowledge like some of
the playoffs shortcomings is like a stink that still is
there that we've seen him come on shore because he's
like it hasn't been as on Josh Allen in the

(01:04:43):
way that I feel it is on Lamar Jackson.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Mark Andrews. I mean they if Mark Andrews has he
doesn't have butter on his fingers, you ain't wings because
of it. I don't think that game was because of.

Speaker 5 (01:04:54):
Lamar, sure, but he also fumbled.

Speaker 6 (01:04:57):
He also, like, I feel like the Josh Allen, the
one that changed the overtime roles game was one that, like,
for me, changed the way I viewed Josh Allen to
an extent of him going tony. He did, but he like,
I can't fault him for that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
If you look at his stats and those losses like
they're not bad like he like, like they're like the
Bills didn't lose those games because of Josh Allen.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
The Ravens didn't lose the Bills.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
I don't I don't disagree, Yeah, I don't disagree with that.
I'm just saying I think I think lam I think Lamar.
I think Lamar. Lamar is expected to do more with
this surrounding cast that he has as opposed to Josh.
We didn't expect a lot of us didn't expect Josh
Allen to even do what he did last year with
those receivers and that team, and you know so, I
think he gets a little bit more of a past
because of that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
I think I think the whole like Ravens team being
better than the Bills is such a false narrative.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I don't think the Bills are not good man.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
I don't still spends so much more money on their
offensive line. They spend so much more money on defense,
like I think the Bills Matt Collins.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
I mean, like.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
I say, Flowers isn't GOODT Collins Flowers. I think Khalik
is like ninety five percent as good as they Flowers.
I don't think there's a big difference there at all.
Like I think I think the tight ends are. I
think we saw when Mark Andrews went out and Isaiah
likely had just as big as numbers as Mark andrew

(01:06:19):
I think those are tight end creations by Lamar Jackson entirely,
not to mention. I get he had Derek Henry last year.
They've been a top three rushing offense his entire career,
when he had Mark Ingram, when he had Gus Edwards,
when he had JK.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Dobbins.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
I get that Henry's great, But Henry just had the
best year of his career with Lamar Jackson, or maybe
not the best he had the one they's goin to
see with two thousand, but the second best year of
his career at age whatever. He is in his thirties,
and I think that's a big part because of Lamar Jackson.
You look at that offensive line. I think Lamar also
covers up a lot of pieces on that old line.

(01:06:55):
I guess I just think sometimes that conversation becomes the
weapons for Lamar. Which who's his number two receivers shot?

Speaker 5 (01:07:03):
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 6 (01:07:05):
Like to contextualize it here, Lamar has played in eight
playoff games. He's three and five. In those, he has
thrown for ten touchdowns, He's rushed for three. He has
fourteen turnovers across this time.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Like that well, yet bad early games. I mean Josh
Allen seven and six.

Speaker 6 (01:07:19):
I mean he had in his elimination game this year,
he had against Buffalo. He had an interception in a
fumble the year prior in the game that he was.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Better stats than Josh Allen in that game.

Speaker 6 (01:07:29):
If Josh Allen didn't have an interception in a fumble, like,
I get like last year's not one. I'm like, specifically
holding Lamar to the fire on. But I do think
when you take the overall sample size that we have
to acknowledge like he has not had that moment to
step up in a way that sure Josh Allen might
not in fact, then why.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
Twenty seven to twenty four, twenty twenty four to the
Kansas City Chiefs. What did Josh Allen have in that game?

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
This is the overtime game you're talking.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
No, absolutely not. That was four years ago, twenty twenty four.
Josh Allen lost twenty seven to twenty four to Kansas
City Chiefs, and he had one hundred and eighty six
yards in a touchdown.

Speaker 5 (01:08:07):
Fair not great, not great, But yeah, bro, he.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Had seventy two rushing yards. He had a couple of
rushing touchdowns in there too, a couple a couple, right,
I didn't see that when first he had twenty four points.
Oh he waspossible throwing a parade for twenty four points.
I'm sure he went well under their team total in
that game.

Speaker 5 (01:08:26):
I mean, so two rushing touchdowns, as I assume what
that means.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
You rushed for two four point rush and for one.

Speaker 5 (01:08:33):
If you rushed for two and three for one, was
twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
He's supposed to do twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
So Lamar's twenty five points against the Bills this year
was a failure, and it's on Lamar turning the ball over.
But we're celebrating Josh scoring twenty four points because he
didn't turn the ball.

Speaker 5 (01:08:46):
Over and scored more touchdowns than Lamar.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
He scored his offense scored more points.

Speaker 5 (01:08:54):
Both the same thing here.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
No, the Ravens scored more points.

Speaker 5 (01:08:58):
They scored had twenty five or Bill's had twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Four, Hills had twenty four, and Lamar had.

Speaker 5 (01:09:04):
One more point. And I think that I don't think
that's the.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
So why are you treating that loss like it's a
failure on Lamar? And we have to bring that up
in a Lamar Josh conversation. But Josh putting up one
less point in a playoff game and only throwing for
one hundred and eighty six passing yards, why is that? Oh, well,
he had he rush for two touchdowns.

Speaker 6 (01:09:21):
Well, I don't think these specific examples are either one
of the guys high point or low point here. I
think it falls in sort of the middle ground. We've
seen more of the lows from Lamar than we have
from Josh in a playoff setting, Will.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Has one less playoff loss than Josh.

Speaker 5 (01:09:33):
But and how many playoff games is?

Speaker 6 (01:09:36):
What is Josh Allen's touchdowns and turnovers in a postseason
setting across how many games there?

Speaker 5 (01:09:40):
Because there's an.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
He's absolutely He absolutely shredded the New England Patriots in
twenty twenty two for five touchdowns. He shredded the Pittsburgh
Steelers in twenty twenty four for three. Yeah, I mean
the stats look great. Go look at them, they look great.
Twenty five touchdown. He's played thirteen games. They look good.
He's torn apart terrible teams in the wild card ground
if you look at those stats and isolated he had

(01:10:03):
the great, the great game against Kansas City where they
lost forty two thirty six. Sure, he's now lost two
years in a row to Kansas City where he's failed
to put up thirty points in either game. He's supposed
to be the guy who can stand up Patrick Mahones
the next week, so we're celebrated. Oh, he ran for
those two touchdowns. Jalen Hurts put up forty on that defense.

Speaker 6 (01:10:23):
Jalen's a far better playoff performer than either one of
these guys.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
But I'm not even making it about that one guy
gets I don't even think we're gonna have time you
to the NFCU winows you got so derailed here. And
this also shouldn't have a factor in an MVP conversation.
That's a back that has ten x better numbers on
the season but in every category. But I one guy's
playoff failures are and I you know, we're gonna talk

(01:10:49):
about that game where he lost twenty seven to twenty
five or whatever it is like forever now because he
lost to Josh Allen head the head. So that's the
narrative battle. But the year, the year before, Josh Allen
scored one less point in the playoff game, Nobody brings
it up. This year he failed to score thirty. Nobody cares.
It's not his fault. It's never ever Josh Allen's fault.
And I'm not even saying it should be by the way,

(01:11:10):
but the way that Lamar and Josh Allen are talked
about in the playoffs I think are totally disproportionate. You
could throw the stats at me if you want. I
watched the game that they played against each other. Lamar
was more impactful on that offense than Josh was on
that offense. Josh didn't have the turnover early in the game. Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:11:27):
I mean so the initial point I brought this up
with is I think some of the postseason struggles Duke
Cloud like the regular season voting. I don't think that's
how it should be, but I do think that's how
it is, and I think that applies to all sparts.
I think the NBA we certainly see this often as well.
I think that is why and on top of like
the voter fatigue aspect is why it went to Josh Allen.

Speaker 5 (01:11:44):
I don't think it's right.

Speaker 6 (01:11:45):
I think Lamar has every case that you can make
from a statistical standpoint for White.

Speaker 5 (01:11:49):
He should have been MVP last year.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
Do you guys remember how Josh Allen lost in twenty
twenty three in the playoffs.

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
To also Kansas City Press.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
Yeah, they lost twenty seven to ten.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
Joe.

Speaker 6 (01:12:03):
You can make an MVP case for Joe Burrow last
year if you want to.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
But he put up ten points. That's never gotten brought
up in any conversation. We just talked. I forgot about it.
We just talked for ten minutes about playoff failures. Josh
Allen went twenty five for forty two two hundred and
sixty four yards. He had zero touchdowns, passing one interception,
eight brushes for twenty six yards in a touchdown, and

(01:12:27):
he lost twenty seven to ten.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Got a good show in the.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Playoffs at home Natty Bengal. Lamar puts up twenty five
points and John Mark Andrews drops a touchdown in or
the two point conversion in the end zone, and we're
not that that's a failure and we're pointing at Lamar
as a loser. Josh put up ten points in a
playoff game. Nobody even remembers it.

Speaker 5 (01:12:51):
I mean, we waited, we but we it's sure.

Speaker 6 (01:12:54):
But like you can for every low point you want
to push up for Josh Allen, there is the same conversation.
Like lamar is playoff debut, he was fourteen of twenty nine,
he had two touchdowns in interception.

Speaker 7 (01:13:05):
What I'm saying is these are all talked about, Like yeah,
these are all talked about and stressed on, and you
brought it up to have this conversation because of like that,
this is the conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
This is the only conversation that gets brought up with Lamar. Now,
we can't even talk about him having four thousand yards
and forty touchdowns, will almost running for a thousand yards,
and we can't give him the MVP because he's a
playoff loser. So that's but nobody even talks about the
fact that Josh Allen put up ten points. Also, I
don't think Lamar has ever put up less than twenty
in a playoff game. If we're going off of scoring
he had.

Speaker 5 (01:13:37):
He scored three against Buffalo in twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
One, Okay, I stand corrected.

Speaker 6 (01:13:44):
Also, the head ahead matchup, he won interception, three fumbles
in that game, no touchdown scored. He was fourteen of
twenty four pass wise.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
That's fair. That's fair. I didn't remember that one as well.
But to my point, all of these go towards the narrative.
Nobody's ever going to bring up a game where Josh
Allen put up ten points and lost at home as
a five point favorite to Joe Burrow. Nobody's ever going
to bring that up into Joe Burrows Josh Allen conversation.
I personally think it's entirely based on race, But that's
another conversation to have for another day. But let's move on.

(01:14:18):
We're not gonna have time to finish this. I think
that was a waste of time. But whatever. The Commanders
in twenty four went twelve and five. Their win total
is ten and a half. I'm going slightly over.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Yeah, I think waitit ten and a half.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
You said nine and a half.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Nine and a half.

Speaker 6 (01:14:38):
I think that's a pretty spot on number, number I do.
I do think that the Commanders take a step back
this year. I think that there is a little bit
of a Jade Daniels sophomore slump. I still probably think
they get to double digits. I lean over, but I
think that's very on the money number.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Yeah, ten tends to right. I think tens the right number.
I go over. I think there's there's there's ten wins
in that in that schedule somewhere with that team. The
way they're I saw it again, not one I love,
but I go over.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
Yeah, I would not bet this one at all. Sorry
for getting fired up there by the way, I just
I just think that the way that they're covered is
I think it has actually less to do with Josh Allen,
because I think Josh Allen's covered the correct way. We're
not harping on his failures. We celebrated successes and we
point that he's an elite player. I don't know why

(01:15:26):
the same isn't done with Lamar Jackson, and that's kind
of my point. But I'm going very slightly over. I
have them at ten and seven. I kind of look
at them as Houston from last year, where a slight
drop back, but Houston still went ten and seven. The
difference is, granted, is playing the East, where the Texans
playing in the AFC South, So I do think there
is more runway for a potential fall apart. But we're

(01:15:46):
all slightly over. Yeah, all right, so the Cowboys. Last year,
the Cowboys went seven and ten. The win total this
year is eight and a half. I do not understand
why they're supposed to be better than they were last
year outside of just Dak being healthy. But I believe
i'd have to go back and look at this. I
didn't look this up beforehand. They were struggling before Dak

(01:16:07):
went out. I think they were like three and four,
three and five maybe. I think there was something in
that range before Dak went out, And I don't think
Brian Schottenheimer and Matt Eberflus are the fixed to all
their problems. So give me an under.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
I don't know, I love Dak. I don't know. I
think I'm a little bit biased and when it comes
to Dak, But I think when Dak's there, like that
offense is humming and that that I mean, like he
has two you know, quality receivers for the first time
in a while. I mean, I think this team, I mean,
I think this team can probably win ten games.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
Like you know, I think that number is a little
too low for Dallas. I don't love Dallas, you know,
but I think they went double digits this year. I
think they cleared that number.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
I have him at five and twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Wow, you think like like that. I mean, like obviously,
like the running game is trash and you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
Know what, I think the worst in football.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
But I mean, like Dak's probably gonna throw for like
four four grand, right, They're gonna throw the ball a
ton this year. I mean, like, I mean, I think
gonna be able to outscore some teams, you know, I
mean it, there'll be a lot of it'll be a
lot of you know, thirty four twenty eight games for
the Cowboys. Because I don't think, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
I think the O line isn't what it used to
be anymore. And now that we've moved on from a
couple of those older pieces, Martin, Yeah, yeah, I think
they only really have one elite guy now with Tyler Smith.
Like I think Cooper BB could get there. He was
a rookie last year. He was pretty good. But I
I think the line used to be such a big

(01:17:27):
part of that. We're gonna see on Mike McCarthy. It's
gonna be an interesting thing we find out how important
Mike McCarthy was, because I think Brian Schottenheim was a bozo,
Like if you look at just like the track record
of his offensive like ratings and everything like that, I
just it doesn't inspire confidence for me. And I actually
we've talked about Javonte a couple of weeks ago. I've

(01:17:49):
soured on Javonte for Fantasy. I was looking at some
of the numbers last year for Javonte. He was like
one of the nine worst running backs and like pretty
much all wasn't And there's like a really good O
line too, and he's going to like definitely a Worshow
line maybe a better overall situation, but like, I'm kind
of out. I shuffled back to being I shuffle them

(01:18:11):
down the list under a couple of guys, So I'm
I'm low on the Cowboys. I think this could be
a bit of a bit of a kind of an
Iceberg season where you go, you start three and five,
three and six again, and you know, things start going
really south really quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:18:28):
And for the record, they were three and five before
Dak Prescott got hurt last year, so they were not
off to that hot start either. It does feel to
me that there is a sense of like the sky
could fall in Dallas, that everything could go bad, Like
I could certainly see the season go this way. I
don't love the number that seven and a half feels
low to me. I would have guessed it was in
the eight and a half nine and a half type.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Eight eight and a half. If I said that wrong,
it's eight and a half.

Speaker 6 (01:18:49):
Oh, go gotcha, I would go under the eight and
a half. Then that's something I would be comfortable with.
I do think that's a pretty fair number, right in
the right range. I think there's a real chance that
this is like could go very far on this if
things break the right right way.

Speaker 5 (01:19:02):
For us, wrong way for Dallas.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
By the way, I like that reallys in on the
Cowboys though I like them, and I don't think I've
heard that from a lot of places. I think that's
a I think that's a take. And as you know,
I'm in on the jetson Raiders, so I appreciate. Are
There's going to be something I wanted to talk about.
There's going to be teams we don't expect right now
sure that are going to be good, are going to win.

(01:19:24):
I mean, the Vikings won fourteen games last year, like
and their win totals eight and a half or whatever
it is, and I and it's and I don't even
I think I'm going under. But like I every year
we see at least like six playoff team. I think
last year was only four or five, but usually you
see six new playoff teams, and so often on predictions,

(01:19:45):
we just see people putting out like a same playoffs,
same teams. I do like people taking a chance, So
I like that. The New York Giants not what I'm
taking a chance on. Though the win totals five and
a half. I'm going four and thirteen. I have the under.
They went three and fourteen last year.

Speaker 6 (01:20:01):
Yeah, I like the under as well. I have pretty much.
I don't know what the deal is out there the quarterbacks.
It's gonna be fun, it's gonna be entertaining from our
perspective to watch in. But I do think it's gonna
be a disaster. And I think that there's more flaws
on this team. Like I think to some extent they're
building in the right direction, that they have a defensive
line that they've built up, they have areas of the
field that they've invested in notably, but I still don't

(01:20:23):
see this as remotely a complete football team.

Speaker 5 (01:20:25):
And I do like the under.

Speaker 6 (01:20:26):
I think that they're gonna be picking right at the
top next year, and it is probably not Brian de
Bull doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
No, But like we you know, like we've talked I
think we've talked about it, you know before, Like the
Giants really should be a team that just kind of
just goes all in on the tank. Yeah, but they've
kind of like halfway tanked it, right because bringing in
Russell Wilson and James Winston, Like this really should be
a team that goes two and fifteen and just gets
the number one pick next year. But they're good enough
where they can kind of flirt with that five number
and maybe and maybe go over that, But I just

(01:20:51):
don't think they're that quite good enough to clear that.
So I would take the under as well.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Yeah, it's not another number I wouldn't bet. I like
the Dallas under. We should all at least pick a
favorite under and over. We go through real quick here,
so I'll read them off at the end, real fast.
But Lions will do rapid fire. They went fifteen to
two last year. They went till was ten and a half.
The whole story. Those new coordinators, Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn,
both head coaches, they're gone elsewhere. I'm going very, very

(01:21:20):
slightly under. I have them at ten and seven, still
have them in the playoffs, but I could see that
going a little bit lower. So give me it under.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
Somebody's got to win eleven division the games in that division,
So give me the Lions. I'll I'll go over that.
I don't have a problem with that. You said they
wont fifteen games last year. Yeah, it was like you
still have Jamier Gibbs, who could arguably be the best
running back in the NFL. Once I was said and
doneant this year, you still have you know, you know,
a fantastic you know, wide receiver room. I think they
still win eleven games. Again, not really. I'm not sold

(01:21:51):
quite on the Bears, not sold on the Vikings, not
sold on the Packers. I said, somebody's got to win
a bunch of games in that division. It'll be the Lion.

Speaker 5 (01:21:57):
So I'll take the over see. I like the under is.

Speaker 6 (01:22:00):
I think that is a more competitive division than you
can get pretty much anywhere else in the NFL. There,
like the Packers are going to give him a run
for their money. The Vikings, we'll see what JJ McCarthy is.
But that is a team that you can't take away
what they did last year. And I do think Kevin
O'Connell can make any quarterback at least be functional in
that system there, I think, And for Detroit probably the
biggest story with me, I think losing both coordinators is

(01:22:21):
a huge deal. Man. But I think Dan Campbell is
sort of Nick Sirianni like in the way that he's
best as like a you know, overseeing CEO type when
and we're going to see how much that is true
or not this year based on it.

Speaker 5 (01:22:34):
I think that there is a step back for Detroit.

Speaker 6 (01:22:36):
They'll still be a playoff team, but I could see
them being a nine or ten wing team.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
The Green Bay Packers a team that Roy just said
he's not in on. They're my number one seed. I
haven't winning fourteen games. I'm all in on the Packers.
They were the youngest team in football each of the
last two years. They went eleven and six. Both years.
They're win totals nine and a half. I think that's
way too low. One of my favorite overs. Gimmit be over.

Speaker 6 (01:22:58):
Yeah, me and Roy were discussing the Packers a little
bit before the show today. I'm still not entirely sure
what to make of this team. I don't love the receivers.
I wish they had more of the guy. But I
do think they get to double digit wins. I think
a ten and seven, eleven and six even type of
season is totally in play sort of how I would
project them there. I like them to clear this number
for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Yeah, I think they barely clear the number this year.
Because again, I'm again, I think the other two teams
were probably gonna miss miss their numbers. But yeah, they're good.
I mean again, when Jordan Love you know, Mark, we
talked about it last week. When Jordan Love's healthy and
when he's on like he's you know, arguably a top
you know, six to seven quarterback in the NFL. So
you'll probably get a little bit more of that this year. Again,
you know, if everything is all, everything else is equal.

(01:23:37):
So I like him at ten wins. Again, I don't
love this number, but sure give me, give me ten wins.
On the Packers Minnesota. They we just talked about him
a little bit. They went fourteen to three. Their win
total is nine and a half. Obviously big stories JJ
in for Darnold. I actually don't think that will be
the problem. What I think is the problem is they
had a smoke and mirror defense last year. You go
through all the names on that defense, it's not to

(01:24:00):
being a top three, top five defense was an amazing
job by Brian Flores.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
He's still there. Maybe he can do it again. My
bet would we see natural regression on that defense and
Minnesota drops back to being maybe even a below average defense,
but an average defense would be my guess somewhere in
like the ten to twenty range in the important metrics there,
And I think that will be that little bit will

(01:24:26):
be the big difference. You look at how amazing they
were in close games, and I think Kevin O'Connell deserves
credit for that. But I do think that there is
a lot of regression to factor in for the Vikings.
Give me a comfortable under here at nine.

Speaker 6 (01:24:37):
And a half, Yeah, I'll be on the under as well.
And I am not a JJ McCarthy guy. I forgot
how much I was out on him leading up to
the draft. I was kind of scrolling through some things
and remembering my feelings of him from his Michigan days.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
There.

Speaker 5 (01:24:49):
I do not see the vision there.

Speaker 6 (01:24:50):
I do think Kevin O'Connell makes life easy, but I
don't think that with a tough division like this, I
think the Vikings going to be the team holding the
short end of the stick and the Justin Jefferson quotes
coming out out of campers certainly not inspiring confidence in
McCarthy by any means.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
Yeah, I haven't seen that.

Speaker 6 (01:25:05):
Actually, it's a lot of very Uh, well, we got
to treat him like a rookie. He's not there yet,
but he's picking it up day by day, starting to improve,
starting to get it, and I'm just like, yeah, that
does not sound like I can't wait for this guy
to throw me at the football.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
I didn't see that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
Yeah, no, I think I think. I think the the
regression from Donald to McCarthy's going to be I mean,
I think that's the key. I mean, Tara Donald was
fantastic last year, thirty five touchdowns, like forty three hundred,
forty two hundred yards last year. Like you're not going
to get that from JJ McCarthy obviously in the year one,
especially after you know the quotes that we just heard
from that, So that again you have the regression from

(01:25:39):
the defense, and I hurt again. I wasn't sure if
you know anything about this mark there might be a
possibility of an Addison's suspension this year.

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
Yeah, probably, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
We'll say so adding all of that, like, I don't
see them getting to that number. So yes, I'm on
the under as well.

Speaker 5 (01:25:54):
It's a gift either way, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
I think the Addison fine for whatever he whatever he
got in trouble for is like three hundred and fifty dollars.
If Jordan Addison gets suspended for something that resoldered in
a three hundred and fifty dollars fine to the State
of Minnesota, Like, what are we doing? Like, I don't
even know what he did actually, but I heard the

(01:26:16):
time number and I was like, how's that possible?

Speaker 6 (01:26:19):
Okay to throw the full context of this justin Jefferson
quote here on JJ McCarthy quote. He's pretty much a rookie.
You're not really expecting to have the same mindset as
a veteran. You can't really have that expectation for him.
We just have to have patience. Don't love that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
I wonder if JJ could give you a little more
on the ground a little bit, which make the running
backs more efficient too, And I do wonder if that'll
help there. They are good line I think JJ. I
still would I still like the fantasy value for JJ
just buying in on that Kevin O'Connell offense, and there

(01:26:56):
will be natural regression there. But I really do think
the defense is I'm more concerned abouts I think that
was what Ryan Flora should get, like a medal for
what he did last year. It was unbelievable, one of
the best coordinator jobs of all time, But he sued
the NFL, so he's never getting a head coaching job.
He could have. He could do that ten straight years
and no chance but a team. I'm actually a little

(01:27:18):
bit more in on the Chicago Bears twenty twenty four
five and twelve win total eight and a half. New
head coach Ben Johnson, new DC Dennis Allen. I'm buying in.
Give me eleven and six. I think that I think
Ben Johnson is a super genius, and I know I
feel like it's cool right now to be out on
Ben Johnson. I'm in. Give me all the Ben Johnson stock.

(01:27:38):
I still have my Caleb Williams stock. I think they're
going to be just fine. I think the defense was
below even where it is talent wise last year. I
think it'll be naturally better. Iberflus was a dead man walking.
Give me Chicago. I think they're gonna be one of
the best teams in the NFC.

Speaker 6 (01:27:56):
Yeah, I'll join you on that island mark that I
for starters. The Caleb Williams rookie season is one of
the more difficult to analyze, I think ever, based on
the context of the situation that he was put in
the way he just got beat up. But I do
have a great deal of respect for the way that
he just continued to get up. The talent did pop
for him coming into the season and obviously during his
time in college. You have to believe that he can

(01:28:16):
get back to that. I think the team follows right along.
I think it was a lot of everything that could
go wrong sort of did for Chicago last year, and
I just think they regress in the proper direction to
a bit more of a competent football team this year.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Yeah. I was listening to Caleb Williams talk on satellite
radio driving in, and I really want to believe I
want to buy him. I think they're asking a lot
of They're asking him the complete seventy percent of his passes.
I mean, like that, that's a lot for you know.
I mean, and look, you have a lot of mouths
to feed, you have a lot of guys you can
throw to a lot of different weapons. I just think

(01:28:49):
the expectations are just going to be so high for
this team that I think they'll kind of fall short
of the pretty high part that set. I think there'd
be a good team. I think they're still a year
away from from being a year away from from that,
so I'll take I'll go slightly going to that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
Under that number, they had forty five wins as a
division last year, which was an NFL record for the
NFC North. I'm projecting them for forty one this year,
so I did take them like as a division to
take a slight step back. But I guess that step
back came with Minnesota and Detroit for me, which is
funny because they were the teams that won fifteen and

(01:29:23):
fourteen games last year. But let's move on real quick
to the NFC South. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers twenty twenty
four ten and seven. Their wins total is nine and
a half. I don't really understand why this is so low.
I'm not really that interested in betting because I don't
think this is a team that I can see winning

(01:29:43):
like thirteen games. But I feel like they're very much
going to win ten or eleven games, So give me
the over. I'm I'm weirdly. I wouldn't bet this because
I think, like one Baker injury ruins this. I have
them at eleven and six. It surprises me that this
number is not ten and a half.

Speaker 5 (01:29:58):
I guess, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:29:59):
This the team that I think I've kind of had
circled as I felt they've played a bit above their
head these last couple of seasons, but I still think
like ten wins is very attainable. And I mean when
you have the Saints in your division, the Falcons will
see what Michael Pennix says. I am a believer in
that Bryce Young with the Carolina Panthers. I think the
Panthers will be better this year, but ultimately there's a
very clear pathway to raking up some wins here. I'm

(01:30:20):
not in on the Buccaneers, but I still lean on
the over of nine and a half there.

Speaker 5 (01:30:24):
I agree with you. I think the number is low.

Speaker 2 (01:30:25):
Yeah, in on the team, but I'm in on that number.
I mean, there's there's there's at least four wins in
that division at the very least. And you know whether
or not you know Chris Gotlin's ready for for for
week one. I mean like you still have a very
good receiving corps, you have a nice two two hit
of back two headed monsters in the backfield. I like
this might be my favorite number on the board, like
for anybody, Like I think over over nine and a

(01:30:46):
half I think is easy. I think this is an
eleven win team in that division for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:30:52):
I agree Falcons twenty twenty four eight and nine last year,
Penics came in for the last two weeks and I think,
look decent win total seven and a half here, I'm
going over give me the Falcons to get to nine
and eight. I have him just outside of the playoffs.

Speaker 6 (01:31:07):
Yeah, I like it over as well. I am a
Michael Pennix junior believer there. I thought there was some
decent flashes that he showed. It is still surprising me
how much of a disaster the Kirk Cousins experience was
and trying that out there. But ultimately I think that
this is gonna be a competent football team. I think
they'll be in the mix and like a team like
the Saints when we'll get there. I think we are
under selling how much of a disaster season that could

(01:31:27):
be right there in their division.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Yeah. No, I like they'll run this one as well.
I think this Bjon hashtag Bejon season probably he's probably
gonna be RB one Kyle Pitts here Bjon season. Like
I mentioned before, we're not gonna mess. Yeah we are.
We're not gonna talk about that man. No, But I
mean you have be JEONN Robinson again. Like, the more
the more we've talked to me. I guess more. I'll
talk to you Mark just about you know, Drake London

(01:31:49):
or the receivers in general. He was fantastic last year.
He was really he was really published. He was he
was really good last year, and especially you know what
we saw the last couple of games with Mychael Pennix.
I mean, like you get seventeen games of that, that
offense is going to be really hard to stop. And
again in that division with Carolina, with the Saints, I
think they go over that number, like that Atlanta team,

(01:32:12):
Like I don't. I mean, they're probably not gonna do anything,
you know, in the playoffs or whatever like that, but
that's gonna be a fun team to watch all year.

Speaker 3 (01:32:18):
I'm not saying you should go bet Drake London fifty
to one to win Offensive Player of the Year, but
I do think he has like legitimate finish wide receiver
one potential. He got thirty one targets in the two
games with Michael Pennix. Like Michael and Darnold Mooney just
went down over months with an injury. Yesterday, you have
Kyle Pitts Mooney are really the only two targets.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
They ran a cloud to some extent.

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
Yeah, Bijon's gonna get his out of the backfield. But
I think Drake London's gonna have one hundred plus catches
and a lot of touchdowns. I really really high on
Drake London. I'm I might bump Drake London up above
some some crazy names on my fantasy list. I might
bump them above Neighbors and Brown. I currently have him
behind Milieu, Neighbors and aj Brown is my fourteen overall guy.

(01:33:05):
Part of me wants to go put a tenth overall,
which I know is crazy. I'm falling more and more
in love with Drake London every time I do fantasy research.
But Carolina Panthers twenty twenty four, they went five and
twelve win total is six and a half. I'm a
very slight over here. I'm a little bit wary of
buying too far into the Bryce Young stuff from last year.

(01:33:26):
I think we've overreacted to some of it. But I
like Dave Canalis. I think he's a good coach and
very clearly he did get the train back on the
tracks download stretch. So give me, give me a very
slight over.

Speaker 6 (01:33:38):
Yeah, I'm all in on buying as much Bryce Bryce
youngstack as I can get here.

Speaker 5 (01:33:42):
I do love the over.

Speaker 6 (01:33:43):
I think both the Falcons and the Panthers are both
gonna be like nine to eight and eight and nine
type teams. That's totally both clear to this number here.
I'll take the over and feel pretty good. This might
be my favorite self. What's the number?

Speaker 5 (01:33:54):
Six and a half?

Speaker 3 (01:33:54):
Six and a half?

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
I don't like this team. Go on six and eleven,
it was well seven and a half. I'd go hard under,
but no, I think this is a six win team.
I'm not sold on Brush Young. The backfield's fine, I
mean they out of my guy Rico, so I mean
they should be a little bit better this year. But
the receiver, I mean the receivers are better. I mean
the offense should be better. Like I'm talking myself into
the offense. I just don't like this team at all.

(01:34:17):
Like I'm not a fan of of the Panthers in general.
So just get I'll take the under on that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
And the last team, we could all be fast here,
Saints five and a half. We all do it under under.

Speaker 5 (01:34:28):
I think like two wins is like under. Yeah, I
have under yeah, big under yeh.

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
The San Francisco forty nine ers. They finished six and
eleven last year. The winter was ten and a half.
I'll let you guys go.

Speaker 5 (01:34:40):
First year, six and a half.

Speaker 3 (01:34:42):
You said, no, the wind. The wind was ten and
a half. They went six and eleven.

Speaker 6 (01:34:47):
Last year, gotcha. Uh, that's a good number too. I
lean towards the under. I think they're probably a ten
win football team. That's sort of my gut feel for it.
But I would stay away from them one.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
Yeah, there's there's just too much noise, you know, too
many guys heard, too many guys went contracts, you know,
with the matters. Yeah, I think I go under on
them as well.

Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
I'm going under. But I talked about this last week,
just reading the schedule at Seahawks at Saints, first Cardinals
verse Jags at Rams at Bucks. That's not an easy
but then first Falcons at Texans at Giants verse Rams
at Cardinals, verse Panthers at Browns, versus Titans at Colts,

(01:35:26):
versus Bears versus Seahawks and incredibly easy schedule. They have
the easiest schedule in the NFL. And there's also some
rest advantage stuff that factors in as well. I'm going under.
I have them mate in nine I'm scared that I'm
going to be like five wins off and they're just
gonna go win like thirteen games. But you look at
the roster, I really do think this is not your
uncle's forty nine, your grandfather's. I wouldn't say that was

(01:35:49):
like a couple of years ago, but it's not your
uncle's forty nine. Ers the Rams, they went ten and seven,
their winters nine and a half. It kind of feel
the same way about the Rams that I feel about
the Bucks. Like this team's gonna win ten eleven games.

Speaker 5 (01:35:59):
I feel like agreed.

Speaker 6 (01:36:00):
Yeah, I like the over I feel stronger about it
with the Rams than I do the Bucks. There, I
think this is a double digit win football team, and
I think they'll be in the playoff mix. I think
the Rams stock has sunk a little bit lower than
the Ship. Yeah, I think the Rams we've talked about
a smart. I think the Rams win that division. Like
I'm not sure why they're their favorite or they're behind
the Niners as far as winning that NFC West.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
I mean that offense. I like that offense quite a bit.
You know, they have some pieces on defense, Jared Verson
and the like in that division. Again, I think they
can win eleven eleven games for sure. I like that over.

Speaker 3 (01:36:28):
I'm also over there. Cardinals finished eight and nine last year,
the win turs eight and a half. How did this
team get better? Where did this team get better? I'm
way under. This is one of my favorite numbers on
the board. Give me the Cardinals under eight and a half.
I have them at five wins.

Speaker 5 (01:36:43):
Yeah, I'm on the under as well. I don't see
the vision.

Speaker 6 (01:36:46):
I just don't with this team, and like the Kyler
Murray experience, it's going to be interesting when this officially
comes to an end.

Speaker 5 (01:36:52):
I feel like we're getting closer and.

Speaker 6 (01:36:54):
Closer year by year, Like rightfully so here, it would
not shock me if this is another team sort of
that fall in that disaster mode.

Speaker 5 (01:37:01):
I like the under.

Speaker 2 (01:37:01):
Yeah, I think we're gonna at the end of the season.
I think we're going to see good numbers for Marvin
Harrison junior. They were going to see good numbers for
Trey mcbriden, good numbers for James Conner, and they'll just
have six wins. I mean, they'll just be a team
that kind of puts up numbers, like meaningless numbers in
games that don't matter or you know when the game's
already out of reach. So yeah, put me. I like
this a lot. They under a lot on the on

(01:37:22):
the Cardinals. I just I'm not a believer.

Speaker 3 (01:37:25):
I'm right there with you. And then we have the last,
the last team in the Seattle Seahawks. Twenty twenty four.
They went ten and seven. I feel like it's the
quietest ten and seven seasons. Really was last year, and
they went nine and eight the year before. I feel
like that was also a quiet season. They've missed the
playoffs two straight years while finishing over five hundred, which
has to be rare. But their win totals eight and

(01:37:45):
a half. I'm going this is my least favorite win
total in the NFL. I wouldn't bet this either way.
I'm going very slight under. I have them made eight
and nine, but I vary between eight and nine to
nine and eight. I'll just go very very slight under.

Speaker 6 (01:37:59):
Shout out the g Yeah, I kind of see it
the same way. I think I go under, But it's
one that I certainly see is like a direct toss up.
Vegas knows what they're doing getting these lines right, man,
So I'll go under. But I think it's gonna be
like right on the number and probably comes down to
the last game and the season to flight aside that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a you know, a week eighteen,
the team that's going to either clear or not clear
that number. Yeah. Like they're they're just the most mid
like probably the most mid team in the NFC, right,
Like they're fine, Like, you know, the quarterbacks fine, their
running backs fine, I mean they're fine. You know, jays sense,
you know, you know, pretty fine. Actually it's probably pretty good.
I like Elisha Roy a little bit, but they're just like,

(01:38:36):
there's nothing that moves me to say that this team
could flirt with double digit wins. So to that point,
I gotta take the under.

Speaker 5 (01:38:42):
Any chance we see Jaln Melro this year, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
Yeah, I mean the bottom falls out. Yeah, I don't
think Bomb's gonna fall out. I think they're just a
mid time Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:38:50):
Fact, by the way, twelve of the sixteen teams we
were all in lockstep on. All three of us had
the same the same pick on the over under. Let's
go around everybody's favorite over under. My favorite over would
be Packers over nine and a half. My favorite under
would be the Cardinals definitely under that eight and a
half number.

Speaker 6 (01:39:09):
Broy over is probably the Bucks under the Saints centerre terrible. Yeah, yeah,
that was my favorite under as well, would be the Saints.
My favorite over. I'm right with my Carolina Panthers. Man,
I'm buying the stock I'm getting on Bryce Young FC.

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
Here we come.

Speaker 3 (01:39:28):
And then one last question, who is the team? You
can use this as who scares the most of the
playoffs or who wins the most games. Who the Eagles
are competing with for the one seed? Who how the
Lions were last year viewed as kind of that team
at the top of the NFC competing with the Eagles
for the one seed, and people thought that that showdown
would come. Obviously it didn't happen. Who is that one

(01:39:50):
team that you look at as the team this year?
For me, I've talked about it on here. I think
everybody's reaction to the Tush push this offseason, trying to
get banned by Green Bay, it's like Green Bay's gonna
fall apart in their colards. To me, it's like, I
think we're destined to have like a full blown rivalry
with green Bay. We just played him in the playoffs
last year. I think this is gonna be like this era.

(01:40:11):
I feel like we played green Bay a lot in
the playoffs and past there is but I think we're
gonna get like big NFC championships with green Bay, including
one this year in green Bay that I predicted. So
gim me green Bay as the team that scares me
the most.

Speaker 6 (01:40:27):
Yeah, the two that jumped out to me, and we're
green Bay and the Rams here that I still think
like the Rams are the team that gave the Eagles
the most trouble in the postseason last year. I think
that they're a more legitimate football team than they're being
given credit here. I get Matt Stafford is aging, they're
good man, and like when I go down the list,
I have more concerns about the Lions. I have more
concerns about the forty nine Ers. I do think the
Commanders take the step back. I think it comes down

(01:40:48):
to the Packers and the Rams. Is the two teams
that the Eagles should be looking over their shoulder for.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
Yeah, No, Rams are my team. I think that's the
team I would talk myself into as being the number
one contender. Like, like you said, like the Lions. Love
the Lions, you know, talent offense. But we talked about
this before losing two coordinators, Like, really, Matt, deal like
it matters, Like it's really hard to get back to
that kind of you know standard, you know when you
lose both, you know, coordinators on both sides of the ball.
So give me a Rams, so I'll buy all the
stock and.

Speaker 3 (01:41:11):
Then yeah to me, if it's not the Packers for me,
it's the Rams. So those are the two teams, and
those are the two teams that gave us more trouble
I'd say in the playoffs last year, the Rams gave
us much more trouble than green Bay. Green Bay kept
that game close. We also started that game off with
a fumbled recovery on a on a kick return. Like
that was a funky game with Green Bay. What what
was the score of that game? Was it like twenty

(01:41:32):
two to ten?

Speaker 5 (01:41:35):
Sounds right?

Speaker 2 (01:41:36):
Yeah, that sounds about right.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
It was. It was a weird game, like a low
scoring game. Definitely went under the total. I can't remember exactly,
but yeah, I fine, it's funny. I think those are
our two biggest contendent. I think Tampa's right there as well.
But that's gonna wrap it up. We'll bring it back
with the AFC coming up here next week. Thanks to
Roy back back on the ones too. Thanks to Sean

(01:42:00):
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