What is Traditional Gardnerian Wica? Part II: Beliefs and Tenets

In the second half of this two-part episode, we discuss the foundational beliefs and tenets of the Traditional Gardnerian Wica.

Episode References and Bibliography

The Traditional Gardnerian Wica Website

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the TradGuard Wicca Podcast.

(00:02):
This podcast is for both seekers and initiates of the Gardenerian path and focuses on historical
contexts as well as modern day concerns.
All contributors are either elders, high priests, or high priestesses of the traditional Gardenerian
wicca, sung with several decades in the craft.

(00:43):
Our guest today is a Gardenerian high priest with over 40 years of experience in our tradition,
High Priest O'Lauren.
He serves the tradition as both the coven leader and a lecturer on Gardenerian topics.
In the second half of this two-part episode, Hermes O'Lauren and I discuss the foundational
beliefs and tenets of the traditional Gardenerian wicca.
In today's episode of the TradGuard Wicca Podcast, we will be discussing a variety of

(01:06):
topics that interlace with the foundations of Gardenerian craft.
These foundations are both historical in nature and are considered necessary to traditional
practice.
Traditional Gardenerians are interested in preserving the practice of Gardenerian craft
as it has been passed down from Gardener.
It is our assertion that Gardener chose to structure Gardenerian rituals from the material

(01:27):
he inherited from the New Forest coven with a specific magical system and purpose in mind.
While we share our views and attempt to summarize some of the beliefs and tenets of traditional
Gardenerians, we would like to acknowledge that we do not speak for all those who identify
as the traditional Gardenerian Wicca.
Please note, the content discussed here is well researched and references can be found

(01:49):
at www.tradguardwicca.com forward slash references.
Hermes, to get us started, can you provide some context of the evolution of Gardenerian
Wicca from where we left off with Gerald in the previous episode to where Gardenerian
craft is today?
In our last podcast we talked about Gerald Gardener and his life.

(02:11):
However, the Wicca did not end with him.
He passed on his practice to many high priestesses.
Some led Gardenerian Wicca covens for only a short time.
Others stayed and practiced Gardenerian craft for their whole lives.
Throughout this timeframe there have been many changes in the Wicca.
Some changes come from the earliest of days, largely due to some high priestesses not passing

(02:33):
on material to their down lives.
This is one of the inherent flaws of predominantly oral traditions in the pre-internet era.
Those listeners who are members of the Freemasons have only to walk into a Masonic lodge in
another state or jurisdiction to see the results that this game of telephone can produce.
This has caused confusion in the craft where in some materials people think are modern

(02:56):
editions actually go back to Gardener or beyond and some materials that were from the New
Forest or Brickettwood covens have been lost to entire lives because they were not passed
on.
In addition to this confusion there have been many changes in the cultural zeitgeist.
I don't think any of the people Gardener initiated or even Gardener himself could have imagined

(03:17):
what our society would become post 2020.
The question before us is how do we grapple with modern cultural concerns in a religion
that prides itself on tradition?
Do we let external culture command the religion or do we let the religion inform our culture?
This strikes at the very heart of theological thought and is a question all members of any

(03:38):
serious religious authority must grapple with.
Oh, Loren, now that I've given a short historical context that gets us to modern day Gardenerian
craft, can you provide some insights into the theological and philosophical underpinnings
of our practice?
Certainly.
So then what is traditional Gardenerian practice?

(03:59):
Well that's a complex answer as there is variation, but there are general principles
which can guide us.
The craft is an embodied practice.
It is rooted in the body, male and female, infertility of the land and the people.
It is rooted in the cycles of nature, both the agricultural cycles of planting and the
cycles of animal husbandry.

(04:22):
This is where our celebrations or Sabbaths originate.
Of course the dates of these celebrations are tied into the astrological year as well.
It is important to recognize that astrology is the underlying organizing principle of
the Western esoteric tradition.
Now it's interesting that Gerald was not really interested in astrology.

(04:44):
Interested in magic and reincarnation, yes, but astrology, no, and I have always found
that to be fascinating.
It would be one of the many questions I would ask him if we met, especially as reincarnation
is one of the central tenets of the Gardenerian craft, I often wondered what his thoughts
would be regarding connections between astrology and reincarnation.

(05:06):
So the tradition is embodied such that individuals are purified or blessed in some manner.
During certain rituals the deities are invoked into the body of the priestess or the priest.
Alorin, can you expand a little on the deities that we work with in Gardenerian Wicca and
our interaction with them as initiates?

(05:26):
Yes, Gardenerians worship a god and a goddess.
These beings are considered little gods, quote unquote, in that they interact with and care
about human beings.
They are not detached, transcendent beings.
The god is horned and is considered a god of the underworld, of death and rebirth.

(05:47):
Hopefully rebirth among those you have known and loved before.
The goddess is one with the manifestation of nature in all her aspects who holds the
power of rebirth back again into the tribe.
The god and goddess are a mated pair.
They help us, and we help them, by giving our energy and attention to them.

(06:08):
They support us in our struggles, for there is no life without struggle.
As we learn and develop over time and many lives, reincarnation to reincarnation.
And between these times, if we are fortunate, we become one of what are called the Mighty
Ones, looking over our family and loved ones as they work in the circle.

(06:30):
Now there is a myth associated with the god and goddess of Gardenerian craft that Gerald
considered so important that he had it published twice.
First as an introduction to quote unquote witch beliefs in chapter 3 of Witchcraft
Today, and then as appendix 1 following chapter 17, The Future in the Meaning of Witchcraft.

(06:52):
This appendix is titled, The Magical Legend of the Witches.
I believe that it is important as well, so for those unfamiliar with it, let me read
it to you now.
Now G, the Witch Goddess, had never loved, but she would solve all mysteries, even the
mystery of death.
And so she journeyed to the Netherlands.

(07:15):
The guardians of the portals challenged her, Strip off thy garments, lay aside thy jewels,
for naught may ye bring with ye into this our land.
So she laid down her garments and her jewels, and was bound, as are all who enter the realms
of death, the mighty one.
Such was her beauty that Death himself knelt and kissed her feet, saying,

(07:39):
Blessed be thy feet, that have brought thee in these ways.
Abide with me, let me but place my cold hand upon thy heart.
She replied, I love thee not, why dost thou cause all things that I love and take delight
in to fade and die?
And he replied Death, tis age and fate against which I am helpless.

(08:03):
Age causes all things to wither, but when men die at the end of time I give them rest
and peace and strength, so they may return.
But thou, thou art lovely, return not, abide with me.
But she answered, I love thee not.
Then said Death, and thou receive not my hand on thy heart, thou must receive Death's scourge.

(08:30):
It is fate, better so, she said, and she knelt, and Death scourged her, and she cried, I feel
the pangs of love.
And Death said, Blessed be ye, and gave her the fivefold kiss, saying, Thus only may ye
attain to joy and knowledge.
And he taught her all the mysteries, and they loved and were won, and he taught her all

(08:53):
the magics.
For there are three great events in the life of man, Love, Death, and Resurrection in a
new body, and magic controls them all.
For to fulfill love you must return again at the same time and place as the loved one,
and you must remember and love them again.

(09:14):
But to be reborn you must die, and be ready for a new body, and to die you must be born,
and without love you may not be born.
And these be all the magics.
Now there is a lot to unpack in this myth, and a full exploration is beyond the scope
of this podcast, but let me touch on a few salient points.

(09:37):
First there are mysteries, processes that are not evident to surface exploration, but
which require investigation, and not just detached intellectual investigation, but actual
participation or immersion in order to understand them.
Second, the exploration of some of these mysteries requires deep sacrifice, the letting go or

(10:00):
giving up of things which we may value to acquire the knowledge we seek.
Third, seeking the knowledge of death and rebirth requires entering the realm of death.
As a goddess of living things, even death will kneel at her feet.
Fourth, the way you think things are aren't always the way they really are at all, and

(10:22):
so the goddess finds that there are forces not under the command of death.
Age, that is time, and fate.
Fifth, even our goddess must submit to fate, and through this finds love.
Lastly, it is through being a mated pair that they are able to share and explore all mysteries,
especially those of love, death, and rebirth.

(10:46):
The exploration, involvement, and immersion in the mysteries transforms us as they have
transformed our goddess.
The process is alchemical.
Alorin, why do you feel that this myth that Gardner writes about, specifically, is so
important to our practice?
I bring up this myth for two reasons.

(11:07):
The late Jake Strat and Kent used to speak of the importance of eschatology in the formation
of religious thought.
Eschatology is the speculation of what occurs after death and the fate of the soul following
death.
These questions are certainly as important to us as Gardnerians as it is to Christians,
Muslims, or even the ancient Egyptians.

(11:29):
This myth speaks to that question.
There is no final end.
That is, time is not linear, but for us it is circular.
Birth, death, and rebirth in a new body, which is why fertility is a central concern.
Second, we hear a great deal in this time about polarities, that is, interdependent

(11:50):
pairs that cannot exist without each other, front-back, top-bottom, left-right, positive-negative,
male-female.
But not all polarities are created equally.
Although polarity may be interdependent, some may be destroyed upon separation, while others
may be destroyed upon combination, and while others may be self-sustaining.

(12:13):
Polarities involving parts and holes can be destroyed if you try to separate them.
For example, if you take a person and try to chop them in half, front-to-back or right-to-left,
top-to-bottom, they will be killed.
Don't try this at home.
Conversely, if you take polarities such as positively and negatively charged particles
and join them, you will get sparks and possibly an explosion, just as if you attempt to jump,

(12:40):
start a car, and cross the polarities in the car battery.
Don't try this at home either.
For this type of polarity to work in an electrical circuit, you need intermediaries to accomplish
the work, capacitors, resistors, transistors, etc., as the power flows negative to positive.
For polarities which are self-sustaining, such as male and female, when they join you

(13:03):
get babies, more humans.
Neurologically and biologically, we are wired to be both separate and connected for the
survival of the species.
This type of polarity is not standalone as it is part of a cycle which renews and repeats
itself, just as the vegetative cycles of sprouting, growing, flowering, and reseeding.

(13:26):
The ability to be self-sustaining is one of the essential qualities of life, that all
of the components of the system can be regenerated.
That is the manifestation of the life force in nature.
Now there is a connection between self-sustainability and heredity.
These concepts are often studied as separate from each other, but they are fundamentally

(13:48):
connected especially in the realm of biology.
There is only so much change or mutation from a biological perspective that an organism
can undergo before it is considered a separate species.
That's because each mutation subtly changes the dynamics of how it functions.
Some of these changes are minor or inconsequential, others disastrous, and obviously it must be

(14:13):
self-sustaining before it can be considered a species at all.
Otherwise it is but one of millions of failed mutations.
That is the beauty of the Gardenerian system.
If you follow the cycles and are true to the paths, the entire system is regenerated.
This is true whether you consciously know what you're doing or not.

(14:34):
The system has the seeds of its own survival embedded within it.
This is so genetically but also socially.
This is why I believe there is a distinct continuity between what Gerald and his co-conspirators
were doing in the New Forest and what we are doing today.
Gerald said he was part of a hereditary coven.

(14:55):
In biology this is called autopoiesis.
A system is said to be living if it is capable of self-sustaining, owing to an inner network
of reactions that regenerate all of the system's components.
In Gardenerian work all of the system components are interconnected.
They are reinforced through positive feedback loops which determines the system's long-term

(15:19):
dynamics and stability.
In practical terms this is what we call fate.
Oh Lauren, I want to shift the conversation slightly and discuss some of the other main
beliefs and practices of traditional Gardenerian craft.
Specifically, we as traditional Gardenerians celebrate the cycles of nature and practice
following the agricultural wheel of the year.

(15:41):
This practice of performing and observing rituals in this way is referred to as turning
the wheel.
Can you provide some insight into these ideas and associated practices?
Living within the cycles of nature fosters longevity and health.
Self-sustaining systems are ubiquitous in nature.
This is also true on other levels.

(16:02):
Groups which cannot functionally work together don't survive.
It's as simple as that.
It is important that we pay attention to sustainability and the function of long-term cycles if we
are to prosper.
Unbalanced cycles over the long-term collapse systems.
This is why I've been so interested and spent so much time examining systems of training.

(16:26):
In any system there are many variables.
We know what traditional Gardenerian practice is going in.
The question becomes, is that what's coming out?
Gardenerian covens work within circles, generally nine foot in diameter but larger if need demands.
The circle both contains power within it and it holds at bay forces which don't want to

(16:49):
interfere with their work.
This idea of the dual power of a circle is old.
It goes back to at least the 5th century BCE in the Mesopotamian anti-witchcraft literature.
Now in circles everything is connected.
The ancients saw things as moving in circles.
It appeared that way on the sky to the ancients.

(17:10):
However we know now that the Earth, Sun, and planets move in ellipses.
But think about that, if the Earth didn't move in this way we would not be here, we
would not be alive.
The Earth must circle the Sun for the seasons to manifest, for crops to grow.
If the Earth moved in a straight line we would all be dead.

(17:31):
After the circle is constructed the members invoke what are called the mighty ones.
Now there is no official definition of these beings.
They could be considered the mighty dead, that is those beings who retain consciousness
following death, watching over those of the craft and monitoring rituals.
There are many traditions which have these types of beings.

(17:54):
For example, Christians would call them saints, Buddhists would call them bodhisattvas.
When one is initiated into the Gautanarian craft it is within a circle.
You are prepared in a certain way and purified.
Initiation is done male to female or female to male.
Once initiated you are a witch, you are part of the community, a part of your coven.

(18:18):
Covens often meet twice per month at the time of the full moon and often on the new moon.
There are special times of the year called sabbats, which are timed throughout the year
marking astrological and agricultural cycles or rhythms of animal husbandry.
In the early days covens would celebrate the course quarter days of Halloween which many

(18:39):
pagans called Samhain, October 31st, Candlemas, often called Imbulg or Lady Day, February
1st, May Day, and Lammas, August 1st, along with Yule, the winter solstice.
As time progressed the summer solstice was added as was the autumnal and spring equinoxes

(19:00):
making a total of eight sabbats which most covens celebrate.
The sabbats are a time when larger gatherings occur.
There are specific magical workings which can be done during these times, but it is
generally singing, dancing, and merriment, a respite to look forward to during the hard
times of life.

(19:20):
Covens meeting at the full moon and new moon will conduct work specific to that group,
often healings, spells for success, money, or love, things that address basic human needs.
Witchcraft is nothing if not practical.
The witch is always looking to improve herself, but there is no need to go further, participate

(19:41):
in circle, meet with your coveners, and live life to the fullest.
Another important element of traditional Gardenerian craft is the degree system and the initiatory
path.
Traditional Gardenerian craft specifically initiates priests and priestesses of the
craft.
The role of a priest or priestess of the Gardenerian craft, particularly high priests and high

(20:03):
priestesses, is rooted in service.
This includes service to the gods, to seekers and initiates, and to the communities we participate
in, both magical and mundane.
The purpose of initiating into Gardenerian craft is to become part of the priesthood
as there is no laity in the craft.
We are also one of the very few religions in the modern world that elevate the high priestess

(20:27):
to prominent standing in practice, and this is true even amongst many pagan practices
and paths today.
O'Laurem, what are your thoughts on the roles of priests and priestesses, or on the degree
system?
Well, yes Hermes, you're correct.
In the Gardenerian tradition there are three degrees.
For those who are called to leadership, it is a process of gradual mastery of the tradition,

(20:51):
often taking several years.
For those who are called, we call it elevation, it is to greater service to the community,
to where your life becomes less a focus on yourself and more at the direction of the
gods.
My experience is that you learn far more after being elevated than you ever learned getting
there.

(21:12):
Although at present we have three degrees, it is interesting that Gerald only speaks
of one initiation.
I believe, and this is speculation on my part, that in the old days there really was only
one initiation, which would have consisted of the elements we experience in our three
nights.
This would make sense as the practices at that time would have been illegal and would

(21:33):
have engendered great risk.
The individual initiated would have been bound to the group in a very deep and profound manner.
Again, these would have been smaller, more intimate groups of people who would have known
each other for a period of time.
In speaking with Patricia Crowther, who was one of Gerald Gardner's initiates and priestesses,

(21:55):
she indicated that Gerald's feeling was that people just were not ready for explicit
pagan practices, so they needed to be introduced to them slowly.
That may have been true then, I certainly think it is true today.
Our culture is not ready for pagan practices.
We still hold superficially at least two significant Puritan values, which is why we are witnessing

(22:19):
what are called culture wars.
Again, my personal opinion, I believe this is part of a larger cultural trend having
to do with what Peter Kingsley, one of my favorite modern pagan philosophers, sees as
the spiritual crises of our civilization and the end of our current culture.

(22:40):
Lauren, as Gardnerians we distinguish ourselves as both traditional and as the Wicca, spelling
Wicca with one C. The distinction of traditional is to denote that we practice the tradition
as it was handed down by Gardner and will pass that foundation as best as possible to
seekers of Gardnerian craft.
We feel that it is our obligation to those seeking the old ways, both to preserve it

(23:04):
for future generations of the Wicca, as well as to provide the seeker with what might be
characterized as authentic or original material, to the best of our ability.
In regards to reverting back to the use of Wicca with one C versus the popularized Wicca
with two C's, could you expand upon the historical use of the word in Gardnerian contexts?

(23:25):
It was during his initiation that Gerald states that he first heard the word Wicca mentioned.
This is what we call ourselves, of the Wicca, or Wiccan.
Now this is an unusual word.
We owe a great debt to the historical work of Philip Heselton.
I don't believe that he has tracked down who he believes among Gerald's circle would

(23:46):
have been familiar with that term and would have used it.
Track down that piece of information and you'll have a good idea of who was in the New Forest
Coven.
It is speculated that the word Wicca with one C as Gerald used it originated with the
anthropologist Margaret Mary, but the fact is we don't really know.

(24:07):
Those more recently to the craft probably use Wicca with two C's and this is linguistically
more correct.
It's what Dorian Valiente, one of Gerald's high priestesses, preferred.
You could probably do an entire podcast on the disagreements between Gerald Gardner rehabilitating
the term Wicca and attempt to make witchcraft more acceptable and others using the same

(24:32):
term with far different ideas.
Lastly, in addition to the term Wicca, Gerald also called what he found in the New Forest
Coven, quote, the witch cult, given the number of popularized books in print regarding the
topic.
The term Wicca probably is in the culture to stay.
Another practice we should touch on which distinguishes Gardnerian craft from general

(24:54):
Wicca, other British traditional Wicca traditions, and indeed other pagan practices, is skyclad
practice.
O'Lauren, can you discuss a bit about this practice?
Of course.
Gardnerians practice without clothing.
Nude.
That is what is called skyclad.
It is interesting in that the climate of England is not conducive to working outdoors without

(25:18):
clothes unless it is in the warmth of summer.
One of the tenets of Gardnerian practice is that the energy of our lives is rooted in
the body and that clothing restricts the flow of this energy.
Most practice outdoors in England would have been clothed or robed.
Working skyclad was a controversial topic when Gerald was discussing the craft given

(25:42):
the morals of the time.
Because of working skyclad, most Gardnerian rituals are conducted indoors unless the warmth
of summer will permit out-of-door workings.
Having done both, I find out-of-door workings in the forest, by lakes, and hidden paths
to be superior for both feeling and result.

(26:04):
This power which is in the body can be raised by a number of techniques – chanting, dancing,
meditation, the use of substances to change consciousness, breathing exercises.
There are many techniques which can be used, and each individual and group needs to find
those which work best for them.
When this power is raised, it can be channeled and moved in the direction desired by the

(26:28):
group.
This is done by a firm focus and concentration.
The form this power takes is generally referred to as a cone of power.
In this way, each member sacrifices a part of their energy contributing it to the greater
good.
This is one of the main reasons why harmony and fit are so important in Gardnerian groups.

(26:51):
Witchcraft, particularly Gardnerian witchcraft, is certainly not for everyone.
Working skyclad continues to be controversial today.
Although the community has grown large enough to where couples meet each other in the community,
marry and have children, raising them in pagan-focused households, Gardnerians don't train or initiate

(27:13):
children.
When I first approached the coven I was initiated in, the one I am fortunate enough to be the
High Priest for now, I was told the group did not train anyone under the age of 21 years
old.
I wasn't discouraged and continued to have contact with them.
I suspect that they had pity for me as I told them I was studying the works of Alastair

(27:35):
Crowley and they didn't want me to fall to what they may have thought was the dark side.
Nowadays 18 years old is the age of majority and most Gardnerian groups welcome the young
to study and consider if their religion is a good fit.
That said, given the relatively recent history and the emergence of the satanic ritual abuse

(27:57):
hysteria of the 1980s, no one wants to run afoul of the law and have a visit from child
protective services to their home, so that although children are raised within a pagan
worldview and practices in the home, the actual conducting of Gardnerian circles is segregated
from them.
Our society may have become more pagan tolerant, but I don't think we are that pagan tolerant,

(28:22):
at least for the present.
Due to its importance, I'd like to touch on the nature of fertility, reincarnation,
and sex magic in relation to the Gardnerian tradition.
Gardnerian craft is a fertility religion and is a sex positive religion, although it must
be said that sexual practices are not everyday practices of Gardnerians.
No one is ever required to participate in sexual practices in the tradition and if sexual

(28:44):
practices do occur, they are going to be done privately between consenting adults.
That being said, fertility, reincarnation, and couples work, whether between married
or platonic working partners, are central and essential to the practice of Gardnerian
craft, particularly at and beyond the third degree.
Generally, third degrees are meant to hive off and start their own covens, which will

(29:05):
ideally be run by a high priest and high priestess working in partnership.
What are your additional thoughts on this important part of Gardnerian beliefs and practices?
Well, although the rituals aren't sex, they certainly are sexual, and it's not unusual
for individuals practicing together to become attracted and fall in love.
Indeed, this is one of the aspects of the faith designed to support the community and

(29:29):
ensure the survival of the craft.
Reincarnation is a central tenet of the faith.
This was certainly important to Gerald and Tafo, that we reincarnate in groups and the
hope is that we are born again at the same time and in the same places as those we have
known and loved before, so that we may know and love them again.

(29:50):
For this to occur, fertility is a prime concern, as it has been for the human race for most
of our existence.
It is only in the past 70 or 80 years that the understanding of our dependence upon nature
has been severed with the emergence of a hyper-capitalism model where everything becomes a commodity,
even religion, with spirituality having no intrinsic value in itself, just symbols and

(30:14):
experiences, items to be bought and sold but devoid of intrinsic meaning.
The process of reincarnation, of course, necessitates the centrality of sex, birth, and child rearing.
These have been at the center of community for millennia.
This was never a controversial position until recently with the rise of the trans-humanism

(30:36):
movement and a full-on investment in technology as our savior.
We'll see how this plays out, but the reliance on technology to save us from our own follies
seems to me to be misplaced.
Modern advanced technology always costs, which means it will be segregated by wealth, especially
technologies such as the genetic editing of embryos, the modern equivalent of eugenics.

(31:02):
This is also a really important topic because it is something that distinguishes Gardenerian
craft from other forms of Wicca.
That is, as you advance in the degrees of the tradition and your understanding of the
craft, you are made aware, more and more, of the necessity to work in pairs, a priest
and a priestess.
Second degrees are often thirds in training.

(31:23):
Essentially, they will work with the high priest or the high priestess of the coven
to learn how to lead a group and manage the energies of the circle.
In some Gardenerian groups, third degree is not even awarded to individuals who are not
planning to hive up and form their own group.
The birthing of a new coven from a priest and priestess seems to be a vital requisite.

(31:46):
Community connections as well as group dynamics allow people to both properly train for at
the highest level of spiritual understanding in our tradition, as well as afford opportunities
to meet others who may be able to act as working partners and help carry on the tradition.
Another belief that many people should be familiar with that is specific to Gardenerians

(32:07):
is that we do not charge for training.
Alorin, can you expand on this tenet?
Well, yes, that's correct.
Gardenerians don't charge for training or initiation, nor do we proselytize.
Gardenerian training, such as it is, and initiation, are not commodities which can be bought or
sold.
They are based on human relationships and fit, for one of a better term.

(32:31):
Because this is an embodied tradition, physical experience is at the core.
For us, the mysteries are always physical before they are metaphysical.
If someone is explaining the symbolic and metaphysical aspects of what we do and they
can't relate it to the physical processes which occur in nature, they are bullshitting
you.

(32:52):
But generally, Gardenerians aren't trained in a formal academic process.
If they are now, it is a more recent, probably American invention, using an academic model.
Writing papers to give to your high priestess to show your knowledge was not how it was
done.
Generally, Gardenerians learn by experiencing the rituals and over time in the context of

(33:14):
conversation and in relationship.
And these relationships are generally and supposed to be long-lasting, spanning many
years and often decades.
Our basic values which are necessary for this coven fit, for those with whom we circle,
are love and trust.
Do you care about these people?

(33:35):
Will you sacrifice for them?
Are these people you are willing to allow close to you, close to your heart?
If I don't have love and trust for someone, I won't circle with them.
One may know Gardenerians for a considerable period before initiation as a possibility
is raised.
This process of getting to know each other can cover at least a year and generally longer.

(34:00):
One of the things which is slowly taught is how to think esoterically.
What do you mean by that, thinking esoterically?
People who understand the ancient traditions approach events, things and people differently.
In many ways, how we look at the world is backwards from the way secular society views
the world.

(34:21):
To the atheistic materialist, looking at the world through a reductionist lens sees consciousness,
awareness as a product of biological process.
Consciousness and awareness are secondary.
To us, however, consciousness is primary, it is at the base of material phenomena.
For us, everything is alive.

(34:42):
Everything is connected to everything else.
The trick is to figure out how.
The ancients called this the great chain of being.
Discovering these connections involves focus, patience and observation, some of the very
things your priest and priestess may be looking for in deciding fit for the coven.

(35:03):
Now people who exercise and practice this awareness discern patterns in people and nature.
The power of the witch lies in awareness.
This is what scares the common folk.
It certainly has scared the authorities and the church.
Just by exercising this awareness we can come to profound discoveries.

(35:24):
We think of ourselves today as smarter and more sophisticated than the ancients, but
that is a modern conceit.
What is true is that the ancients were as intelligent 100,000 years ago as we are today.
What they did not have, however, was the technology we possess.
What they didn't have in technology they had to make up for in observation.

(35:47):
Did you know that the ancients understood that the earth was round and that they were
able to calculate its circumference?
The first to propose that the earth was a sphere was Pythagoras in 500 BC.
He felt that a sphere was the perfect shape.
He also knew that there was a fire in the center of the earth, a central fire.
That's because Pythagoras and Promenades lived in the Greek colonies of southern Italy

(36:13):
where there are active volcanoes.
This fire in the center is the same fire as that of the sun and the stars.
We are creatures of the earth, yes, but we are also creatures of the stars.
Unlike monotheists, where the world is organized from the top down, for the Pythagoreans development

(36:34):
and process is from the center outward.
You can see this same organizational understanding in the works of Promenades and Empedocles who
proposed that the four elements are the roots of all things.
In any case, Erato Theonis, who was born around 276 BC in what is now Libya, studied in Athens

(36:56):
at the Lyceum.
Around 240 BC, King Ptolemne III of Alexandria appointed him chief librarian of the Library
of Alexandria.
By understanding and measuring shadows cast by the sun at noon on the summer solstice
in different locations, he realized he could calculate the circumference of the earth if

(37:17):
he knew the distance between these points.
They did this and the result was close to within a few thousand miles of circumference.
What then would you say is the culmination of this awareness?
What are we generally seeking as an endpoint to practice?
As practitioners what we are seeking is the experience of ecstasy in our rituals and practice.

(37:39):
This also scared the church.
Now ecstasy is a slippery term as it can mean many things to many people.
There are paths to achieving this ecstasy and an exposition of those should probably
be left to other podcasts.
The important point is that Gerald and the Coveney Stumbled Upon found techniques which
worked for them in changing awareness.

(38:01):
This is important on multiple levels.
There are examples which are not controversial at all such as the use of dance or breathing
techniques.
But there are also other examples which might be controversial such as the use of drugs
to change awareness.
Humans have been using substances to change awareness for millennia, however it is how

(38:23):
they are used that is important.
Today we have the scourge in our communities of addictions to many substances, alcohol,
opioids, crystal meth, benzodiazepines, trink, and even certain technologies.
Because the use of substances is divorced from any spiritual or sacred context, they
are used for recreation, to dull pain and to provide solace from emotional, spiritual,

(38:48):
or economic poverty.
The use of substances in a secular manner actually increases risk.
In our modern world, everything is attempted to be reduced to a commodity, including your
spiritual experiences.
So what we have in the present day is a divorcing of the use of techniques which used to be

(39:09):
within a religious, sacred context to a shift of its use within a mundane, secular context.
Our modern culture allows this because of our wealth and so we have multiple addictions
which come to dominate and destroy lives and then decimate community.
What we struggle with in the modern world is a function of the modern world.

(39:32):
In the ancient world there was addiction, for example, but it could not be sustained.
There were no structures to sustain it.
Everyone had to work because everyone had to eat.
If you didn't work, you didn't eat.
It was as simple as that.
The social safety net just didn't exist as it does in the modern world.
Did ancient cultures use these techniques of ecstasy?

(39:56):
Of course, but they were used in a prescribed manner within limits and boundaries.
What were those limits and boundaries?
They were the rituals the community relied upon to appropriate the gods, support the
growth of crops, the community, and fertility.
They were used for specific ends to divine the cause of disease, to restore health, to

(40:19):
promote well-being, to seek wisdom.
The gods were at the center.
There was a seeking of balance in the natural world.
Was that time ideal?
No.
It was war, disease, and poverty, just as there is today.
In the ancient world, there were academies organized in the pursuit of wisdom.

(40:41):
Indeed, that's what the term philosopher means, lover of wisdom.
From the school of Pythagoras, today the modern academy has no need or care for wisdom and
they certainly don't care about the gods.
Very briefly, I want to touch on malefic magic and the concepts of cursing in baneful spellwork.

(41:02):
Today it is not uncommon to see witches, including some gardenerians, advocate for the you-do-you
approach to malefic and cursing magic.
This is very much a popular movement today and in some ways a repudiation of the fluffy
bunny witchcraft attributions earned in the 1990s during a prominent era of modern witchcraft.
However, gardenerians by and large still do not support the use of baneful magic.

(41:25):
Alorn, can you speak to why this might be the case?
Well, one of the things which gardenerians avoid is malefic magic.
I suspect that Gerald and the people surrounding him knew their history well.
The witch persecutions were driven by many social stresses but ostensibly triggered by
two things, charges of malefic magic and charges of fraud.

(41:47):
Neither Gerald nor the people surrounding him were interested in reigniting the persecutions,
so unlike the cunning craft practitioners who charged money for their work and performed
negative magic, traditional gardenerians never charge for their training or magical work
nor do we practice malefica.
It's not that we can't, it's just that we understand the history.

(42:10):
Which brings me to my final point.
Gardenerians call ourselves the hidden children.
We have little need for publicity.
We prefer to practice our religion quietly, without fanfare.
Indeed, even doing this podcast is something of an exception to how I practice.
But we live in the age of the internet and hard times are ahead, so it will be interesting

(42:35):
to see how this new medium will have an effect, hopefully for the positive.
Before we wrap up this episode, I want to discuss one final point in relation to participation
in Gardenerian Wicca.
One of the questions we sometimes get is, is traditional Gardenerian Wicca LGBTQIA plus
friendly?
The short answer is yes.

(42:56):
Not only are there several members of a traditional Gardenerian Wicca who are LGBTQIA plus, but
you will not find a traditional Gardenerian who disqualifies a seeker for admission into
the group work because of their LGBTQIA plus status.
And any Gardenerian will tell you, traditional or not, training and acceptance into a coven
is contingent on fit.
It is about a lot of things, but most of all, it is about meaningful spiritual fulfillment

(43:20):
for the seeker.
Because the Gardenerian craft is historically worked cross-sex, some practitioners may find
that our practices clash with their mundane ideals.
The navigation of these issues are intra-coven and are between the high priestess, the high
priest and the seeker.
Cross-sex practice does not automatically disqualify an LGBTQIA plus seeker.

(43:42):
However, some may find it discomforting to participate in or may find it to be a spiritually
unfulfilling practice for them.
These details should be discussed and determined prior to a seeker being initiated into the
craft.
And if the seeker finds misalignment with their spiritual needs, a traditional Gardenerian
group will strive to assist them to find placement with a group that can accommodate them.

(44:02):
Our duty to the seeker is paramount, and that includes communicating as best as possible
the positives and negatives of pursuing the Gardenerian tradition based on an individual's
mundane ideals and circumstances.
Oh, Lauren, thank you so much for guesting on this episode of the TradGuardWicca Podcast.
Are there any closing thoughts you'd like to share with us before we close out this

(44:22):
episode?
Well, I've spent time going through a lot of history with you.
I've done this because I've heard it said that, quote, Gerald made it all up.
Well, made it all up from where?
The elements which constitute the Gardenerian tradition are rooted firmly in the esoteric
stream of the West.
I have also heard the criticism that there is no documented passing of teaching from

(44:46):
person to person.
Well, that's true, but there is also a great deal of information passed from generation
to generation that can't be documented.
Let me give you an example.
Go into a room and ask several people at random a series of questions.
How many days are in a week?
How many minutes are in an hour?
How many seconds are in a minute?

(45:07):
How many degrees are in a circle?
You should get pretty consistent answers, 7, 60, 60, and 360.
That's because these basic measurements of time and space that we use have been passed
down to us from Mesopotamian culture.
There is no way to document that it has been passed down in an unbroken line from generation

(45:30):
to generation, but it has, because it's a common cultural heritage in the same way that
the knowledge and practices which are at the base of the Gardenerian tradition is part
of a common cultural heritage.
A repressed heritage, true.
An esoteric heritage, without question.
But a heritage, nonetheless, which has survived the centuries.

(45:53):
You know, although this podcast is focused on Gerald Gardner and traditional Gardenerian
craft, we live in what is the best of ages regarding the esoteric.
Because of the internet and modern academic research, we now have access to more historical
material than at any time in the past.

(46:14):
At the touch of a button, you can access hundreds of documents.
With a few well-placed searches, seekers have opportunities to explore multiple paths, not
just Gardenerian.
This is a good thing, a diversity of paths for a diverse population.
If it turns out that our path is not for you, there are a host of others to explore or even

(46:37):
invent your own.
Anyone in our community worth their salt will help you get to where the best fit is for
you.
I appreciate both of you allowing me to speak and to the listeners for their time and permitting
me to be part of your day.
So I will leave you with how witches part following our festivities, and this does come

(46:59):
from the work of Margaret Murray.
Merry meet, merry part, and merry meet again.
Until we next meet, blessed be.
I want to offer a big thank you to High Priest O'Lawren for his research on the myriad of
topics we have covered and for his in-depth exploration of Gerald Gardener in the first
part of this episode.
We are grateful to you for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience in Gardenerian

(47:22):
craft.
For those seeking to learn more about traditional Gardenerian Wicca, you can visit our website
at www.treadguardwicca.com or reach out and communicate with traditional Gardenerians
on Facebook, either through the Gardenerian Initiates Open Forum for Seekers or Traditional
Gardenerian Wicca, a Seekers Hub group pages.
Links to both groups can be found on our website under the Our Recommendation webpage.

(47:47):
Until next time, thank you so much for listening.
We hope you have enjoyed this podcast, and blessed be.