Ana Crusis : Drag Pageantry, Imagination, & Civic Engagement | Sex, Stigma, & Misinformation II - The Trans Narrative Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline and today I'm here
with it's Jordan Braxton. Hi again.
Hello. Hello.
How are you doing? Thank you for having me back.
I'm honored. It's so good to have you here.
Thanks for being here and your chips too.
They're glad. Banging all these chips.
I'm sorry, I'll stop. And joining us as guest, guest

(00:24):
Co host, it's Cherise Alexander some more.
Once again. Hello, welcome back.
Hi, Caroline. It's so good to be back in the
studio. Oh.
My God, it's good to have you here.
Thank you for being here and joining us today.
And yes, and our very, very special guest, the one and the
only, the magnificent, it's AnnaCruces.

(00:46):
Hello and welcome. Hi, thank you so much for having
me on today. It's so good.
It's such a pleasure and an honor to have you here.
I've seen I've seen you both perform.
So this is this is I, you know, I was a little baby trans girl
and I was like, oh, looking up to to wonderful people being
themselves. So it's good to to be here with
you and to be in your presence. Thank you for being here.

(01:09):
So before we get started, a little bit about Anna Cruces.
In the glimmering realm of Indianapolis drag, one name
shines brightly, Anna Cruces. A celebrated former fierce
advocate and community icon, Anna has Gray stages across the
Midwest for over a decade. With her signature high glamour,
sharp wit, and powerful presence, Anna began her drag

(01:32):
journey in 2011 in Muncie, IN and quickly made her mark,
earning titles such as Miss Gay Muncie, Miss Glamour, and Miss
Gay Indiana. Her impact extends beyond
performance. In 2021, the city of
Indianapolis proclaimed an official, Anna Crissis Day, to
honor her contributions to the LGBTQ plus community.

(01:54):
A fearless advocate, Anna testified before the Indiana
House of Representatives againstHouse Bill 161608, Indiana's
Don't Say Gay bill. Using her platform to speak
truth to power, Anna Crissis stands as a radiant force of
resilience, joy, and transformation, reminding us all
that true Queens don't just wearcrowns, they change the world.

(02:17):
Anna, it's so good to have you here today.
Thank you. Wow, that bio makes me sound
incredible. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative podcast. I'm your current My name is play

(02:38):
Sharice Alexandria. Savour here with Jordan and
Caroline and our special guest Anna Cruces.
Anna, tell us what it was like growing up as a queer child in
the state of Indiana. Yeah.
So I grew up on the West side ofIndianapolis in a little
neighborhood called Mars Hill, kind of like a redneck villa,
lower socioeconomic status area.And I won't say that it was

(03:02):
easy. I certainly had lots of bullies,
people that called me Sissy all through daycare and early
elementary experiences. But I think that I was able from
a really early age, having very supportive parents to kind of
build this positive aura around me that a lot of that stuff just
didn't really sink in and I didn't let the negativity get me

(03:24):
down. I always tried my best to
connect with people and uplift and I feel like I was really
able to, to navigate all of thatpretty well.
So I was, I really was a Sissy from an early age.
I had little plastic Ruby red slippers and I was obsessed with
the Wizard of Oz. I loved playing with Barbies

(03:46):
and, and my sister would, you know, help me re enact the
scenes from movies and dance around and sing karaoke.
And I just loved all things art,theatre and music.
And so as I began to grow up, I eventually found drag.
And what were your some some of your early influences, cultural,
spiritual, artistic that helped shape who you are today?

(04:10):
Yeah, I mean, other than obviously my parents and my
older sister. My sister is 16 years older than
me and she's my half sister, so she's really more like a fun
aunt. And she always taught me about
style, fashion, heck, just even manners.
My parents were kind of, I'm going to say rednecks, but very

(04:32):
embracing rednecks, if I can saythat.
And they love me, but they didn't have quite the same
cultural reach that my sister was getting exposed to.
So my sister definitely was the one who kind of introduced me to
the world outside of Mars Hill. But beyond that, when it comes
to pop culture, I was obsessed with The Wizard of Oz and Judy

(04:55):
Garland. I love The Wiz and Diana Ross,
anything Oz related truly. But then also Pee Wee Herman was
a huge influence and other queericons, even Dennis Rodman.
I was not a sports fan but I came to have an appreciation for
the Chicago Bulls. Not because of Michael Jordan,
which everyone else was obsessedwith, but I loved Dennis Rodman

(05:17):
because of his crazy, wacky hairand when he wore the wedding
dress it was. That's where I saw myself was
with queer and just different pop culture figures, really.
Would you say that those influences shaped your drag?
And maybe you tell us a little bit about your first time and
your inspiration. They absolutely shaped my first

(05:41):
time in drag, my very first timein drag, real drag.
Not just, you know, Halloween orfor certain parties that I would
hang out with my friends, we would, you know, sometimes put
on drag and dance around to Madonna or Lady Marmalade or
something like that. But my senior art show, what in
high school was my very first time getting in full drag

(06:04):
costume, hair, makeup, wigs, allof that.
And I dressed as Glinda the GoodWitch for my senior art show.
So, you know, some people go to prom and drag for their first
time or something like that. But I stepped out and showed off
my artwork as Glinda. I thought that was the best
representation of myself and kind of the energy that I wanted

(06:25):
to exude to the world. Now tell us, are you a good
witch or a bad witch? I am absolutely good witch are.
You a good witch or a bad witch?Really.
Make no mistake, I am a very, very good witch.
First time you did Dragon, how did it make you feel?
It made me feel wonderful. I mean, being a theater kid and

(06:48):
an artsy person who loved to be the center of attention, I like
making people's heads turn and and getting eyes on me and all
of that. And I also, especially in middle
school and high school, I reallyliked to kind of challenge the
establishment, if that makes anysense.
I like to make people not feel uncomfortable, but kind of push

(07:09):
them to that boundary of what isexpected.
But yeah, I would definitely sayPee Wee Herman was a a big
influence to just the camp of itall.
The bright colorful vibrancy, the silliness, and I like to
bring that into my drag as well.I love doing character work.
I I really enjoy doing Winifred and kind of more cosplay

(07:33):
characters. Cynthia from Rugrats Pikachu.
I just, I think drag is, it's theater, it's art, it can be
light hearted, it can also be fierce and I like exploring all
of those sides of drag. I think Chucky is my favorite.
Chucky, you know, but you give Cynthia vibes though, you know?
I can feel. I feel that baldness.

(07:56):
Yeah, and well and the mom, do you have your cosplayed or mom?
Oh no, I've never done Angelica Pickles.
But or not Angelica that's. Her mom, what's her name?
Charlotte. Oh my God, Charlotte, sometimes.
She's fierce, fierce business mogul.
Oh my God, you could do a whole episode about that.

(08:16):
Right. So when was the moment when your
performance first felt like home, Like you were natural,
like you belonged on stage? I would honestly say when I was
first dancing around in my little plastic Ruby red slippers
in the living room, pretending that I was Judy Garland, I knew
that that's what I wanted to do.I just wanted to be in this

(08:38):
magical world and feel this costume and this fantasy and I,
I feel like Oz has always been apart of my story, as it is for
so many queer people. It just has a beautiful message
of when your life is is dark anddreary and Gray, there's always
something on the other side of the rainbow that's going to be
glittering and and beautiful andcolorful.

(09:00):
And I've taken Oz with me through lots of iterations as
well. An early experience of
performing drag here in Indianapolis was at a place
called Illusions, which eventually turned into Zonie's
Closet, And I still have photographs of this.
I sang Home from the Wiz dressedin a terrible Dorothy Halloween

(09:22):
costume. And but that just, it truly felt
like home. I know that that maybe is a
little cliche or trite to say when you're Speaking of singing
the song that's titled Home, butjust getting to live in that
moment and that character meant a lot to me.
And then also for my step down as Miss Gay Indiana in 2021 I

(09:44):
had a whole Wizard of Oz theme and once again putting on those
rugged red slippers just connected me back to when I was
a kid and 1st fell in love with I guess.
Wow, so, so take me back to, youknow, growing up in some Muncie,
I know Muncie well. And So what was that like as as

(10:09):
a teenager, you know, was, was, were you able to be open with
your, with your careerness, withyour identity?
How was that? I was growing up in a well, a
relatively small town. How did that shape your?
Your experience with your identity, your gender?
Your your, your coming out? Yeah, well, I actually grew up
here in Indianapolis on the Westside and didn't get to Muncie

(10:31):
until college when I went there for Ball State.
But being here in Indianapolis, like I said, I grew up in a a
lower socioeconomic side of townthat a lot of people would
probably call a rougher area, but I honestly didn't get too
much. Can I say shit on a podcast?
You can curse all. You want.

(10:53):
I didn't really get too too muchof that, or at least I didn't
absorb it. I'm sure it happened.
Like I said, I was called all kinds of names.
Sissy being the, the, the one asearly as I can remember.
But I was able to make friends with so many people.
And once I found kind of my group of people that I, I fit in

(11:16):
with, kind of the, the weirdos and the people who wanted to
challenge things or be differentor were just OK with accepting
themselves as who they were and expressing that, I felt like
then I was safe because we wouldstand up for each other and we
had each other if anything happened, if that makes any
sense. So the choir kids, the band

(11:36):
kids, my alternative friends, wejust kind of surrounded each
other with love and acceptance. And then all of that bad stuff
just didn't really stick. So with all of those experiences
and being the staple in the dragcommunity and the standard of
Indianapolis drag that I can sayhands down, what is the message

(11:58):
that you have for your younger? Self wow, that's a that's a
tough question. Gotcha.
They got me, girl. I guess I would say just don't
be afraid to be your fabulous self.
I, I think I was pretty unapologetic about who I was,

(12:22):
but I think I could have been even more so.
I mean, I came out at 14, so in,in middle school I already knew.
I knew from a very, very young age that I was queer, but as a
teenager I was just like I had afriend, a really good friend of
mine from 2nd grade, Josh, who was the 1st in our middle school
to come out. And his bravery and just seeing

(12:45):
him living his open truth made me know that I can be safe doing
that as well. We grew up in the same
neighborhood and I thought if ifJosh can do this, I can do it
too. And actually a, a boy moved to
our school who I developed a crush on and he developed a
crush on me and he started writing me little letters or

(13:07):
whatever. And eventually that's kind of
what made me come out was like, OK, if I'm going to be with him
and we're going to, we're going to go there, then we need to
come out. But because I had very
supportive parents, I had a verysupportive sister.
Hell, I even had a band teacher who was incredibly supportive
all through it. When I came out to him, his

(13:28):
response was welcome to the family.
And then from then on he was showing me all around town.
He's the one who introduced me to IYG, which was huge in my
coming out story. And my dad was wonderful enough
to take me to IYG where I was able to connect with people my
age that were queer as well. And that's kind of where I

(13:50):
developed a lot of those friendships where we would have
each other's back and it was OK to express yourself.
That's that's wonderful. So.
How was your relationship with your gender and your queerness
and your and your performance? How has that evolved?

(14:11):
How have you gone from Middle Anna dancing in the Ruby
slippers in the living room to singing home in a horrible
Dorothy contest to win in Miss Indiana, becoming, you know, the
symbol of excellence in in the standard that everyone tries to
to live up to in Indiana? Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a
great question. I feel like from a young age,

(14:35):
gender and sexuality was always something that I was kind of
aware of. And I knew that I, I was unique,
you know, I, I knew that I didn't fit with some of my
friends or I knew I wasn't the same as my parents for a long
time as a kid, because I was into things that were

(14:55):
stereotypically feminine. I thought perhaps that I was
supposed to be a girl. And then when I was when I was
ready to come out, I was like, is I just don't know.
And I struggled with that. And I think a lot of queer
people do you want to maybe denyso that you can fit in for a
while, but then you realize it'sbeing your true self that makes

(15:17):
you who you are and allows you to stand out in a positive way.
So as I've just grown and developed, I feel like I was
able to accept myself as a queerman who also loves to do drag in
the art form of female illusion and impersonation.

(15:39):
I would say that I might identify as like gender fluid
because I do drag so much. And I just, I feel like I live
kind of in that, you know, sometimes I feel more masculine
and sometimes I feel more feminine.
And I don't think I have to always put a label on
everything, if that makes any sense.
But I've just, I'm really comfortable with who I am.

(16:01):
And, you know, if I want to paint my nails or wear something
that's a little flirty, then so be it.
If I can't have long hair, but. You can, you can.
You can buy it at the store for 4999 and put it on and gone out.
Listen, I've seen this lady's hair collection.
I know 49. I do have quite often had

(16:21):
conversations about the amount of money that we will spend on
hair and costumes and yeah, and it definitely has a price tag on
being beautiful and to be the standard.
But I feel like drag gave me that outlet where I can express
my feminine side. If I'm using air quotes, if you

(16:44):
guys on the podcast can't see me, you know what I mean?
Where I can live Damon's life and then also live Anna's life.
And I enjoy that. And then I'm OK being in between
sometimes too, yes. Sometimes it's hard for people
to accept those blurred lines that we give them.

(17:05):
Right. Yes, because, you know, I went
from Leon to Diana to Jordan andpeople are like, well, what's
the difference? I said.
Actually to me, there was no difference.
I was always, I always meant to end up here.
Right. I am me, and however I choose to
express myself on any given day,at any given time, that is what
it is. Because it's all a part of me.

(17:26):
Thank you for sharing with the Dwith us.
I appreciate that. Absolutely.
Those founders definitely sometimes get blurred.
And I get it. It's kind of hard to
differentiate the intersectionality of drag and
your personal life and advocacy.So I get it.
But I feel like entertainers andactivists, like our true self

(17:48):
shines through, and it's all about that little kid that we
were growing up that we carry into those stages and those
spaces where we let that person's voice be heard to help
someone that might be like them.And I love that.
I love that about you too, Anna.So do you think your drag has
helped your advocacy work? I absolutely do.

(18:09):
I think drag has given me a platform that Damon might not
have naturally had, if that makes sense.
Drag Queens are kind of the superheroes of, of the queer
community. You know, I would say drag
Queens and trans people, the trans community really are

(18:31):
something that a lot of people look up to and listen to.
And we just have a bigger platform.
So I think it definitely has helped me reach people in new
ways, even just through performances.
But then beyond that, you know, going to speak at the State
House, continuing to stand up for public education, for trans

(18:52):
people's rights. You know, I was out and about
during the Black Lives Matter movement.
I feel like it's important to stand, stand up and use your
voice. But I think people listen to me
more because I have that platform as an entertainer,
absolutely. And I and I don't take that

(19:13):
lightly. I think people who are going to
be in entertainment, you do havesomewhat of a responsibility to
use your voice. Absolutely.
That's one thing I love about Miss Indiana is the way that it
makes you give back to the community.
You're contracted to do community work, and I think that
that's amazing. I'm sorry, Carolina didn't mean

(19:34):
to interrupt you. Go ahead.
No, absolutely no. I love it.
I was, you know, I was just going to ask, you know, how do
you approach Greg as a craft from illusion to storytelling to
community building? You know, where does that
intersection from? You know, your art just being,
you know, something in that thatis seen to something that
impacts the community, you know,in real tangible ways.

(19:56):
That's a loaded question, but I think it's all of that.
I mean, you can very easily turna number into a political
message, or you can even in or out of drag, just go to a rally
or go to the State House and protest or speak.
I Yeah. Wow.

(20:17):
Have you ever gone to the State House in drag to speak?
I've not gone in drag yet, No, but now you're giving me ideas.
I mean, I've. Gone in drag before before I
transitioned. It makes a kind of statement.
Absolutely. And that's that's what I was
getting at when I said, I think we have a different kind of
platform and people look at us and they recognize us and they

(20:39):
listen to us because if we are dressing up in these fabulous
costumes, they're like, wow, they clearly have something
powerful that they're trying to share with the world in this
moment. I love that.
So Miss Gay Indiana, you were a former Miss Muncie.
We know that you placed top fiveat Miss Gay Michigan.
What is next for Anna's track career?

(21:00):
And before you answer, I would like to plug that as your
current reigning Miss play. My Step Down will be November
the 30th at Play Louisville and Louisville, KY and the theme is
Go Fish Under the Sea. Well done, sister, well done.
I'm sure Plate is very, very proud of you.
You know, I'm not sure exactly what, what the future holds for

(21:21):
me. I, I had originally said that 40
was going to be my retirement, but I'm getting ready to turn 37
in just about a week. Gemini season is here and I, I
don't know, there, it seems likethere's so much more that I want
to do that I, I don't know that I have an exit strategy in mind

(21:45):
because I would love to eventually make it to the
national stage, whether that be through Miss America or through
another system. I would love to represent a lot
of titles here still in the state of Indiana.
There are some bar titles that Ihave some interest in.
I would love to serve as Miss Indy pride someday, just getting
to serve the community and, and I feel like as a title holder,

(22:09):
you get to once again elevate your platform.
You're representing a a place, you're representing people.
You get to use your your power for good.
Right now, my mother, Vicki Saint James, is the current bag
lady queen. The bag ladies.
I would love to be a part of their organization because I
really admire what they do for all of the fundraising efforts

(22:31):
for people living and thriving with HIV.
I've always thought Miss Indianaand then eventually Bag Lady
because to me, those are two of the most prestigious awards and
titles that we have in our state.
But yeah, I don't know. I definitely want to compete
more nationally. And this is a reminder to drink

(22:54):
water. Oh, drink some water.
Yep, let me drink a little water.
Tug lady's chug. Yes, I'm sorry.
And I just want to tell you, we all thought that in our younger
drag career thinking, you know, about 40, we have all used to
say, I used to say I don't want to be them old Queens doing
drag. And then here I am 64 still
doing drag. Are you never?

(23:17):
Guessed yeah. Yes, I'm 64.
I'll be 65 in December. Goodness, I hope I can look that
good at 64. So tell me about the day
Indianapolis named the day afteryou.
What did that moment mean? And tell me a little back story
how that even happened. I have no.

(23:37):
Idea. This still remains a mystery to
me. So I've heard of people getting
a day named after themselves before, but I always thought
that someone had to write a letter or, you know, request
this sort of thing or purchase this sort of thing.
I'm not exactly sure how this transpired, but at my step down
for Misgay Indiana in 2021 at the Irvington Theatre, I was

(24:01):
presented with this award and itit said that September the 10th
of 2021 was going to be Anna Crucis Day.
I have no idea how this happenedthough.
I'm. Going to put your name in.
I would I would love to to thinksomehow that our mayor got word
of me and and maybe some of the things that I had done

(24:24):
throughout my reign for two years is Miss Gay Indiana.
The likelihood of that is probably very slim, but I have
no idea who as. A person as a person who works
in our with our mayor and with that, you deserved it.
It was the mayor did hear about you because the mayor has to
sign the proclamation and approve all of those.

(24:46):
So yes, someone in your community loved you so much and
you did so much great work. They wanted a name day after
you. So yeah, that's how that's the
mayor does know about you. I love that.
Yes, I'm calling off work. What date is it?
I'm like, I can't come in. It's Anna Cruces day.
Yes, cheesecake 1 drawback. Oh yes, we should have

(25:08):
cheesecake in my owner. The one drawback though is it's
the day right before September 11th, so never forget.
Never. Forget.
Forget. Anna Cruces.
Wonder what it's like to win a crown and how to wear it
properly? Tell us about how a queen should
reign and what it means to you. Oh gosh, what does it mean to

(25:30):
win a crown? I think it means a lot to a lot
of different people. To me, it is an honor to be a
servant to that system and also to all of the people that you
are going to be representing forthat.
The rain it means to me to be a leader.

(25:52):
You're someone that people are going to look up to not only for
for looks and performances, but also just how to be, how to act,
how to treat people. And one of the things, it might
seem really small to a lot of people, but one of the things
I'm most proud of during my reign was that there was no
large drama. Indiana is known as the crown of

(26:15):
thorns and it is very often a lot of drama that can happen,
not just for, you know, Miss Indiana's for any pageant
system. But I was very pleased that I
was able to lead with kindness and develop positive
relationships everywhere I went.And I, I hope that that message

(26:37):
was kind of spread to all of thepeople I thought.
I hope that they were learning that you can treat everyone with
kindness and respect and then hopefully that will be given
back to you in kind. I love that.
I definitely have a story about my reign.
I, I don't know if I put myself into predicament that I kind of

(27:00):
have learned a lot from that. I feel like you are a lot more
put together. Miss Indiana was my first big
reign. You know, I didn't, I didn't
know how. So I love that.
I love that Rule 12 line fee is engraved in my mind.
Miss Indiana must not be involved in conflict unless
they're as a mediator. I will.
I probably should get that tattooed somewhere.

(27:24):
Yes, yeah, I've not held that many titles.
I mean, Miss K Muncie was a prelim to Miss Indiana at the
time. Miss Glamour, another prelim to
Miss Indiana and then Miss Indiana because I always wanted
to represent my state. I've lived here my entire life,
37 years, and this is the community that I grew up in that

(27:44):
I know and that I love so much. Yeah, but I would love to win
more titles. But to me, winning a title, as
much as I enjoy the win and all of that, I just really look at
what can I do with this and how can I improve and leave things
better than, you know, than maybe it was before?

(28:05):
How can I elevate and take it tothe next level?
So let's talk crowns for a moment, since you brought it up.
Sure. So from winning Miss Muncie to
winning Miss Gay Indiana, what in each title represent to you?
Well, each of them were kind of a place in time, like a moment

(28:29):
in my life. So Miss K Muncie came right
after I had just graduated Ball State.
I had been up at Ball State fouryears working on my degree for
music education. And while I was there, I was
primarily doing fundraising dragfor the LGBTQ plus organization
on campus called Spectrum. And we raised money mostly for

(28:54):
HIV awareness and groups that were up in the Delaware County,
Muncie area. But Miss Muncie to me was
important because Muncie had been such a huge part of my life
for four years. And really where I got my start
in true drag was at the Mark 3 Tap room, which has had two

(29:16):
different locations and is currently not around.
But I'm hoping that it's going to be brought back sometime
soon. So I would say Miss Muncie just
represented all of those great experiences and the very
beginning trajectory of my drag.It was also my first foray into
Miss K Indiana. That year, having won Miss
Muncie at which was a preliminary, I went and competed

(29:38):
at the state level. I was woefully unprepared, but I
had enough support and people inmy corner that I was able to
make top five. I got 5th that very first time.
Then I took many years off and Idid not compete for for
anything. I was the head director, head

(29:59):
show director over at the BananaBabes Review in Broad Ripple for
several years, but we were only doing a once a month drag show.
It was primarily a karaoke venue.
So I would say I was still very actively involved in the drag
scene and but I was using that time to kind of hone my craft
and see where did I fit as a queen and as a performer and

(30:22):
what type of drag did I want to portray and represent.
I would say my time at the Monkey's Tail LED up to Miss
Glamour at 2019 when I finally felt like I was ready to compete
again and that was another preliminary contest that led up
to Miss Gay Indiana. But that time I was able to

(30:44):
snatch the big win as well. Match.
Snatch, they each just kind of mark different points in time
for me. Muncie was kind of the very
beginning. Miss Glamour was after I'd been
on my first show cast for six years and then finally Miss
Indiana. I get to rain for the entire

(31:05):
state and I love my rain so much.
I, I was very, very fortunate that Cleo Brasher, the owner of
Great Lakes Production, allowed me to keep the title throughout
the COVID pandemic. Because when the pandemic hit,
you know, drag kind of stopped for a while.
We were doing drag online and wehad to get really creative with

(31:30):
the ways that we could connect and still try to reign.
So I tried to create content. I tried to still be active as
much as I could. I did a lot of shows with masks,
but I did miss out on a lot of things that other Queens would
get during their reigns, such asa pride and things like that.

(31:51):
So, you know, I just didn't get this much, but I.
Didn't know you didn't get to dothe pride parade off.
I did eventually, next year whenI crowned Hallelujah Dad and
Holly invited me to be a part ofthe float.
So I wasn't the, you know, raining at the time, but I still
got to enjoy the parade. As a former, and I will say

(32:12):
being a former, Miss K Indiana is one of the biggest honors in
my drag career. And I, I very much love my
sisters and the family of Miss KIndiana.
What about your Miss Glamour sisters?
Who's your favorite? Oh don't put me in that position
sis. I love all of my sisters.

(32:34):
Good. Politically correct answer.
I was going to say, I told you Ilike to say out well, I'm not
picking favorites, just like I tell my students I don't have
favorites. So take us into when you went
into the State House, what was what was that like, you know,

(32:55):
protesting against HP 1608? What was take us into that
moment and how that was? Yeah, I've got to be honest, I
was not really sure what I was getting into.
I before that had not been superpolitically active.

(33:15):
I mean, I had done a handful of protests here and there and
tried to use my voice. But I, I connected with the ACLU
and they had asked me if I wouldcome and speak against this
because as both a drag queen, a queer man and a public educator,

(33:36):
the Don't Say Gay bill was really important for me to stand
up against and to use my voice against.
But the ACLU kind of walked me through how to craft a statement
to give in front of the, the house.
But it was, it was scary. I mean, there were cameras
inside. There were tons of people who
were very angry and and I just Ididn't know if the people that

(34:02):
we were testifying in front of, if it would actually make a
difference and if they would hear us.
But what I had to keep telling myself was it doesn't matter
whether they do or they don't. You have got to use your
platform, your response, like it's your responsibility to
stand up for your community, foryour students and make sure that

(34:23):
this is kind of, you know, shut down.
So how do you? It was very scary, I will say
that. Very intimidating.
So how do you see the role of drag involving in this era of
political backlash and resistance and, you know, drag

(34:44):
is a crime and all that nonsense.
I think it's very scary. There are some other states that
still have drag bans or that are, you know, going that way.
And I'm, I'm grateful that we don't have that in Indiana yet.
But it's important that for all of us to stand together and to

(35:08):
show people this is art, it's theater.
We're not here to hurt anyone. We're here to educate.
We're here to, to, to challenge.We're here to show you that the
queerness is beautiful, that gender is an expression and that
it, it's gorgeous, it's glamour.So I think it's important for us

(35:29):
to continue to represent ourselves, our community, and to
get out there and to use our voices because we never know
when we could potentially be silenced.
True. What is your message for younger
Queens and queer youth, especially now more than ever
here in this current political climate?

(35:51):
I would say educate yourself andand express yourself.
Express yourself freely. Be who you are, be unapologetic,
but also stay aware of of thingsthat are going on so that you'll
know what you need to do to counteract that you can.

(36:16):
I love that I watch the news like as I start my days.
I have it on my earpod and it isfrightening it we are we are
walking down to scary time so I love that.
Yes, we are. We are in some really scary
times and Speaking of scary times and we know sometimes our
political advocacy work gets very becomes very heavy.

(36:39):
So where do you draw the strength from when that from
when the pressure to perform in every sense of the word, whether
it be dragged, whether it be advocacy because when we go
testify we are performing. Oh yeah.
Yes. So where does that strength come
from to keep going when times get heavy, when all that becomes
heavy? I think reminding myself of the

(37:03):
support of the community, like you're not just doing this for
yourself, you're doing this for so many other people and for
people who don't even exist yet or for people who don't feel
like they can. They're too scared or, you know,
something like that. We have to stand up for them and

(37:24):
and use our voice. I think that's what gives me the
courage to keep going. Yes, the voice, the voiceless.
Mm, hmm, exactly. Do you?
What does it mean to protect joyin the face of systematic
oppression? That's a deep question.
Protecting joy. I can answer that myself right

(37:48):
now, but so keeping with the drag thing that I said, what are
you? What are we really the fight
from when we defend drag? What are we really fighting for
when we defend drag? I.
Think what? We're fighting space.

(38:11):
We're fighting for space to be heard, to be seen, to be
acknowledged and to be accepted.Yes, I love that it was such an
honor to work with Anna as one of her first special guests of
Glam Slam Season 2 here at Indianapolis.
Will you tell the people where they can follow you and some of

(38:31):
your next upcoming show? Yeah, absolutely.
You can follow me on Instagram at Anna with 1 N like Indiana
Under Score, Crucis CRUSIS or onFacebook as Anna Crucis and Glam
Slam is at Downtown Ollie's and it is the third Sunday of every

(38:54):
month. This upcoming month for June, we
are moving to the 22nd of June just because of the Pride
Festival. You can catch me at Indy Pride
on June 15th. I'll be performing around 4:30
PM. Where else can you catch me?
Oh goodness, if you follow me onFacebook or Instagram I I post

(39:16):
my dates all all over the place but I will be out and about in
June. Pride month is certainly one of
my biggest months. I would say pride month and then
October around Halloween becauseI do so many Halloween type
characters. Those are my biggest months but
I also feel since I'm off for the summer.
Thankfully, as a teacher, June and July are really my chances

(39:39):
to kind of kick my butt in gear when it comes to drag and just
be out there, be visible, be present, connect with people,
perform, entertain and uplift. Fine.
You had said a little earlier, you know your career.
I I wanted to ask, how do you balance the emotional weight of
being like a public educator in an advocate?

(40:01):
While holding space for joy and creativity, You know, it's like,
you know, being, you know, such a figure in in in the queer
community, while also being in the public space, you know, and,
and advocating on behalf of, youknow, the don't all of these
things. I can imagine there's such
pressure and probably some fear about around, you know, being so

(40:22):
open about who you are or also being in a space that is so
easily a target for our community.
Absolutely. And I, I have a lot of anxiety
about things like that and I'm sure that I'm not alone, but I
have a bit of imposter syndrome and I'm terrified of failing.

(40:43):
I feel like I really look at myself as kind of a role model,
both as a teacher and mentor during my day job and then as a
queer entertainer, as a drag queen.
I really want people to to look at me and see kindness and
empathy and then be able to takethat with them and, and use

(41:04):
that. Or I hope that I make someone
smile. So it, it is a lot to balance
and, and sometimes I have to kind of separate things, but I
think that's the beauty of, of being me is I have so many
intersectionalities of teacher, mentor, drag queen, performer,

(41:25):
yadda, yadda. All of those things bring me joy
and, and keep me going and keep me connected to people.
People really kind of energize me.
So have you ever got any pushback being a public educator
and a drag queen, even all that you know, they say we're
indoctrinating children with ourlifestyle.

(41:48):
Surprisingly not, but that that is one of the reasons why I
continue to stand up specifically for public
education and trans students, LGBTQ plus students.
I want them to know that they have a safe space.
And often times, you know, as a music educator, the music
classrooms, the theater classrooms, the art classrooms
are where a lot of those creative souls and many queer

(42:12):
people find kind of a safe haven.
They find their tribe. They find their community.
Yeah. It really is about sisterhood
and support. There were some really dark
days, you know, Anna told the people.
Sometimes they called the Miss Indiana crown the Crown of
Thorns. And my platform has always been
trans rights and HIV advocacy. And I think that through my

(42:35):
experiences, Miss Indiana and the the trial that I felt like
it really woke me up to mental health.
And I don't know if I've ever told you that and just actually
said thank you because you really supported me through some
really dark times. And I don't think I could have
done it without your words of wisdom and just that sisterly.
OK girl, come on. You know, So thank you because

(42:57):
she's she practices what she preaches.
It's not a joke. Yeah.
You're welcome girl. I hope it's here for you.
That's I, I would not, I'm not going to say I'm a perfect
person by any stretch of the imagination, but I always,
always try to lead with kindness.
I just, I think that there's waytoo much negativity in this

(43:18):
world. We've got to be there for each
other and we have to uplift one another and and that means being
there for everybody. I remember my last trans
narrative interview when I was with Indiana, I just kept
saying, like the call is coming from within the house that we
have to stick together. And it's it's the truth right
now more than ever. This political climate, like I

(43:41):
think that this federation currently has emboldened people
to show their prejudice, their, their hatred towards people that
don't look or act like them now more than ever.
So it is now more than ever thatwe as a queer community really
have to stand hand in hand and show the support to our family
members and our community members and embrace and fight,

(44:05):
you know? Because we all we have.
Yeah, Amen. Because you know in times like
this unit, you'll be surprised you thought your next door
neighbor all these years was supporting you and then the next
time you turn around they got a Trump flag flag in their.
Card right? Yeah, like, oh, OK, I didn't
know where that was coming from.I was married to a Trump

(44:26):
supporter. Cherise Amore is divorced.
You know, Anna, I wanted to ask,I want to say, you know, what do
you what, what lessons do you hope your audience takes away
from after after the performance?
But I, I want to answer that because I actually years ago,
four years ago, I was after darkand, and I, and I watched you

(44:50):
perform. I'd watched so many wonderful
performers and they're so inspiring and I felt so welcomed
in that community. And, you know, when I had
watched you perform, I, I often was the one that stood there in
the hallway because I knew you'dwalk by and I'd always stop and
say, and, and this was before I transitioned at one time.
And so, you know, I didn't look hopefully I didn't look like

(45:11):
this. And I just, you know, I felt so
felt so welcomed. I felt so a part of something
bigger than myself. And I think that was the
experience that I would have after your performance and so
many of others in in the Indianacommunity, because the Indiana
cruise scene really is so strongand it is much bigger than most

(45:35):
people that I don't think they say Indiana.
I'm like, yeah, like this place is hooked up with us.
Like there are so many of us andit's so strong and there's so
many facets of different areas. And the drag performers, they
travel through all these places.So everybody in Indiana, you go
to, you go to Indianapolis, you go to South Bend, somebody knows
somebody and you know. Thank you for saying that.

(45:57):
I, I love all of our beautiful areas that we have in the state
of Indiana from Evansville all the way up to Fort Wayne.
But I, I, I do hope that that kind of resonates with people
that the, the feeling of, of being welcomed.
Yes, that's, that's what I hope that I exude in my performances.
I might not be the most talented, the most beautiful.

(46:19):
I am going to have sickening costumes, but I want you to, I
want people to feel excited whenthey see me perform or some sort
of emotional reaction. And I want them to feel welcomed
in by my performance because I've, I've even performed in
front of lots and lots of straight people at private
parties and different things like that.

(46:39):
And I guess I just want them to know, like drag is not this
scary thing. It's it's a beautiful art form
and everyone can appreciate it. And how do you stay grounded in
almost glitterless seeming world?
And I'm hoping that you plug those 3D little white and brown
munchkins into this ants. She's about my Boston Terriers,

(47:04):
my little munchkins. So she has a beautiful little
collection of babies. And I'm biased.
Chili's my favorite. Chili is deaf, and I think that
makes her so special. And out of all three of them is
she's the sweetest. Anna's husband has done

(47:24):
photography work for me. We spent some time together.
Like I said, the sisterhood is real.
So yeah, yeah, tell us how you're staying rounded.
I, I mean, my dogs bring me a lot of of that comfort.
My dogs, my friends, my family, my partner, Evan is my rock.
But all of those things bring mejoy.

(47:46):
But especially my dogs because you brought them up.
I'm a huge animal person, but I feel like dogs just love
unconditionally. And I kind of hope that that's
the same energy that I radiate as a person and as an
entertainer and as an educator. Because I think that's what the
world sounds so cheesy and trite, but that's what the world

(48:08):
needs more of is love. Right.
And how can our listeners show up meaningfully for the drag and
trans communities in this moment?
Wow, number one, listen. Listen to us, listen to trans
people's stories, hear what they've gone through and and

(48:31):
about who they are and what theywant and what they need.
Look at drag performers and enjoy their art.
It's so easy to to criticize everything, but just love it,
appreciate it. Give us space.
All right, y'all. So that's that's about enough

(48:51):
about me. We have these two amazing Co
host, Jordan and Cherise and youboth work in HIV prevention.
Could you, could you talk a little bit about what, what
myths do you still think that are out there about HIV that
need to be dismantled? The first thing that.

(49:14):
But no, she was. You go first.
You go first. Well the first thing that pops
in my mind is you know there are5 main wet and sticky fluids
that HIV is transmitted through.If they're not yours, don't
touch them and they do not include urine, sweat, tears, bit
and you cannot get HIV from eating off of someone living
with HIV plate. I have a brother who is HIV

(49:38):
positive. So like, when is Thanksgiving, I
can be like, let me tell you this, let me let me have a bite
of that. And I'm at no risk, not only
because it's my brother undetectable, but I'm also on
Prep. I think I want today medication
called Prep to prevent the spread of HIV for people who are
high risk and want to stay negative.
Yeah. Yeah, and I think one of the
biggest myths is that HIV is still not a gay disease.

(50:01):
You know, HIV effects everyone. It HIV don't give a rusty who if
you're black, white, green, Gray, rich, poor, fat, thin
18110 HIV effects everyone. And so working in HIV prevention
today, where do you think we're still falling short, especially
for the black, trans or rural communities?

(50:24):
Well. This is this is a great question
because these are some really marginalized, underserved
people. Most black and trans people are
uninsured because of stigma within their own communities.
They may not get on, may not come get tested or get on Prep

(50:44):
or come seek prevention services, especially trans women
because trans trans people have been mistreated so much by
medical providers and asking very intrusive and unnecessary
questions in our rural communities.
It's because we have doctors in the rural communities that will
not even talk about HIV or assigned to provide people Prep.

(51:08):
So I know some friends here in rural Missouri, they have to go
to either go to Kansas City, Columbia or Saint Louis to get
their Prep, which is ridiculous when your providers right there
in your own little town should be able to prescribe that for
you. Absolutely.
I'm going to piggyback off of Jordan's answer.
Absolutely. I think that this current
administration has dismantled somuch of the government funding.

(51:31):
Like let's be real, and I apologize if it's offends
anyone, but so many people live in live in this candy hooded
dream of this gender heteronormativity.
And the fact is that 42% of transgender women in 2018 tested
positive for HIV. So one's husband is monogamous

(51:54):
no matter what he's telling you cannot see someone and be with
them and know their love, their whereabouts are 100% of the
time. So the fact that that same man
is willing to pay a transgender woman to sleep with him, who
needs the money to survive because of the things that
Jordan just talked about, you know, like this needs to be
government funded, not just for us, but for everyone.

(52:15):
You know, knowing your status and knowing your treatment
options is one of the biggest ways to prevent the spread of
HIV. And 0 is possible.
Yeah, 0 is possible. And going back to stigma, I
always tell married women they're like, oh, my husband's
monogamous. He would never cheat on me.
Girl, get tested because you just that's, that's something
right there. If you don't think your man will

(52:36):
cheat on him when I know your man is cheating on you.
So even if you've been a monogamous relationship, you
need to get tested. Yeah, I the day after the
election results came out, I wasworking for the Damien Center.
Like I said, Damien Underground,it's their transgender program
that focuses on bipod, trans andnon binary views.

(52:58):
I left my position, I had something lined up.
Since then, that program has lost funding twice.
And that was my fear. That's why I left.
That's why I left nonprofit work.
And part of me harbors that guilt because there are so many
people that don't know about thework that they do and what their
their options are. Half what the government finds

(53:20):
like what is actually out there for you And people are so
miseducated it it's just important to get that word out
and for people to know. Right.
I am I, I, well, you know, a true clean Anna Cruces, you
know, taking the spotlight away from you and shining on these an
important topics. And I really appreciate you, you

(53:41):
know, taking us into this into this area.
I wanted to ask Cherise, since we're here, what does it mean to
use drag as a tool for dismantling stigma and
celebrating resilience? And then maybe Jordan and and
Anna can answer that after as well.
Absolutely, you have to be smartand creative in your way of
presenting it. But like Anna said, you know

(54:02):
these stages offer as platforms not only to entertain but to
educate and to hold faith. For me, when I competed my last
pageant, I took a took the presentation category and
twisted it just a little bit. I think like it was Ready Player
1 was my presentation theme and I came out as an HIV superhero.
And it was taking that little bit and the man, like the way

(54:25):
that you made it your own and stood on business for your
platform made me win the category.
So it means not only that we have fulfillment and we're
feeling like we've delivered ourmessage, but you know, it shines
a light on a group of people whonot only may not be seen, but
who don't have a voice, who havemisconceptions about them.

(54:47):
And drag is not always superb. What's the word I'm looking for?
It doesn't have to be so heavy. You know, it doesn't have to be.
You have to have a message. Sometimes we're just having fun.
But when I'm competing, it's definite.
My platform is my platform and I'm going to bring it across in
some way, whether it's through question, answer or using my fun

(55:08):
side to for an event that is reporting an organization that
caters to my platform. Right.
Yeah, I definitely say it's important everything to link up
with organizations and be willing as as an artist and an
entertainer to go and support these organizations to perform

(55:31):
in the benefits, to raise the funds to get people aware.
Yeah. And I, I remember the days when
the epidemic first started. We had no funding.
We it kind of came to light in 1982 and the government didn't
utter the word HIV or AIDS until1985.

(55:52):
So we invested in three years with no funding.
People asked me, how are we going to survive?
I said we survived then, we willsurvive now.
We had to think outside the box to get what we want that much.
But if you know, we did, we tookcare of each other.
Talk about resiliency. Resilience, yes.
We took care of each other when when the government wouldn't.

(56:14):
Jordan, Now I know we had talkedabout this a little bit in your
original episode that we had with you, but you in fact did
the Transgender Memorial Garden.What has that taught you about
grief, honor, and memory? It, it's taught me that people
need a place to go and grieve. I, like I said my interview, I

(56:37):
found it the trans Memorial Garden because I was tired of
everything about trans being about death.
That's the only time we ever heard about anything transgender
was about when someone was killed.
And I thought we've got to have something beautiful out of all
these ashes, something people has to, has to come.
And so that's why I started the garden, because I wanted people
to have a place to go where theycan sit.

(56:57):
When I first started the garden to where it is now, it is
beautiful. There are benches, there are
trails, there are these beautiful Missouri trees there
that that shade. And people tell me that they go
there just to sit and think and reflects and exhale.
And when I say exhale, this is what I mean.
Some days you just want to go toa place where you can sit down

(57:20):
and just exhale and take a breath because you're tired of
the way the world is treating you and the oppression.
And you just need a place where you can say.
And that's what they do at the garden.
The garden is a place where theycan remember their friends,
honor who they are, and just relax for a moment.
That's beautiful. Literally a breath of fresh air.

(57:45):
You know what you know. What does it mean to pass the
torch to mentor, uplift and thenshort drag remains a site of
resilience and resistance and joy.
As an educator and also as a queen, I think it is.
That's what it's all about because we won't always be

(58:09):
around and it's up to that next generation to carry on the
legacy and and to continue to uplift and inspire.
And so to me, that's what that'swhy I enjoy connecting with
people and, and leading with kindness and building those
relationships. My, my drag children mean a ton

(58:30):
to me and my sisters mean a ton to me, whether they're older or
younger. But I think just that
connecting, sharing ideas, uplifting and mentoring, that's
how we create or inspire joy fortime beyond ourselves, if that

(58:52):
makes any sense. You invest in in the next
generation so that all of that can be carried forward.
Anna Cherise How do we keep showing up when the world keeps
trying to erase us? You just got to go outside.
You just have to go outside and not be afraid to answer hard
questions and have hard conversation.
You know, I'm not going to sit here and say anything about do

(59:14):
things that will I'm not going to condone anything that will
make you get arrested. However, if I was to walk into a
men's restroom to be a big thing, right?
And that's not like a, a stunt or me trying to, you know, pop
my collar, but like when I walk into a women's restroom, I don't
draw attention. I'm in there to handle my

(59:35):
business, take my little potty break, wash my hands and I'm
gone. Now if I was to go into a men's
restroom and a dress and my hairdown and they'd be like, I'm
sorry, you have the wrong one, then I have to, you know, those
that creates a a different type of sticky situation.
So it's really just about livingyour life as a gender that you
are in your heart. And when people have question,

(59:58):
you know you have to find the best way to answer them and to
always give grace and humility. Yes, uh huh.
And I show up even when the world's trying to erase me.
I show up because I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of
things that you're getting to me.
Amen. You know, because.
That's the part. They want us to hide.
They want us to stay at home. They want us to disappear.

(01:00:20):
But damn it, I'm not doing that.I'm I'm gonna put on my makeup,
my hair and my clothes and I'm going to work and show you
actually here. I'm say fuck you.
I'm a trans woman. I'm here.
OK, So what are you going to do?What are you going to do?
You can't do the thing. There's no amount of hate,
legislator or anything you say about me that's ever going to

(01:00:42):
change who I am. So like we used to say in the
90s, we're queer. We're you're get used to it.
That's what I tell everybody. Trans people ain't going
nowhere. Don't retaliate.
Educate, right? Don't retaliate.
Educate. That's right.
Now we're. Yeah.
I love that. What are some trusted resources
for folks who want to learn moreabout HIV prevention and query
advocacy? Jordan, Cherise and Anna.

(01:01:05):
The first of all, you go to yourlocal.
If your if your town has an LGBTcenter, go to your LBT center
because they probably have connections and resources for
you. Go online, Google can be your
friend and don't be afraid to get tested.
Now let me say it again, listeners, don't be afraid to
get tested. It is better to know than not to

(01:01:27):
know the advancements that we'vemade in medical and medicine.
Now we have people with HIV living to be 100.
It is not the death sentence that it was once.
As long as you take your medication, you get your viral
load down, you can be undetectable, which means you
can no longer transmit the virusto the next person.

(01:01:47):
So that's the first step is to get tested.
I will say that the Indiana Department of Health has
location throughout the state. Not every one of them offers HIV
testing, however, nine times outof 10, they partner with a local
nonprofit. If you're in the Indianapolis
area, the Damien Center is the world or the state's largest and

(01:02:10):
oldest nonprofit with multiple wrap around services for people
living with HIV and for people who are not living with HIV,
transgender healthcare and a full medical clinic in pharmacy.
If you're in Fort Wayne, I did some time at the positive
resource connection. The positive Resource
connection. There's another lovely HIV or
AIDS service organization that has a vast variety of resources

(01:02:34):
as well as a food pantry for people who are living with HIV.
Housing assistance is a big thing.
There are so many different programs that are struggling.
And, you know, if you feel the need, give back $5 can change
someone's life. It can feed more than one
people, more than one person. So yeah.
So I want to take this time and just say thank you all for being

(01:02:57):
here. It's really been a pleasure and
all the last minute. I really think that it was a
great episode and I really have enjoyed all of your time.
I want to take this moment and Iwant to say thank you to our
audience for being here every week, tuning in week after week
and giving us your time and yourattention and just being here
with us and hearing these stories and, and just coming to

(01:03:20):
better understand ourselves and the community and you know why
the work that we do is so important.
And if you'd like to participateand be on the show, please
e-mail us at transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
That's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
Jordan Jordan, thank you so muchfor being here.
Do you have any final thoughts, comments, or anything you'd like

(01:03:41):
to leave us with? I just want to say, first of
all, Caroline, thank you for giving us this platform to tell
our stories, our stories of value important, especially like
this last half an hour where we talked about HIV prevention.
That is very near. You know, that is very near and
dear to my heart and I appreciate that.
And I just want to leave two things.
First one, get tested. Second thing is live your life

(01:04:03):
to its fullest. Live your life as your true
authentic self and don't let anyone take your joy away
because trans joy is. Beautiful.
Thank you, Cherise. Cherise, thank you for returning
and gracing us with your presence here and the transnator
really does mean a lot. Thank you for being here.
Anything you thank you so much for having me.

(01:04:24):
Yes, absolutely. Remember that the H and HIV
stands for human. The virus effects everybody.
And don't forget to take care ofyou If you're struggling with
something that's causing you anxiety, mental health is such
an important thing to take care of.
It's as easy as finding someone to talk to.
And yeah, take care of you and be authentically you
unapologetically. Thank you again, Caroline.
Oh my God, thank you. It's been such a pleasure.

(01:04:46):
And you know, I really have enjoyed your time and thank you
for being here. Before we depart here today,
what message would you like to leave our audience that's
listening and to the world? What would you like to leave us
with this now to carry on in ourhearts throughout the rest of
this week And and what would youlike to leave us with?

(01:05:09):
Well, first, I'd just love to say thank you so much for having
me on. It was an honor to be able to
share my story and also to connect with these two amazing
and very knowledgeable people that you brought on, Charisse
and Jordan. It was a pleasure to talk with
you all today. I would say thank you to you for

(01:05:32):
creating this platform because Iwould say my message to all of
your listeners is, like you said, keep listening to these
stories. It's so important to hear the
voices of of queer and trans people and to make sure that
everyone is protected and safe and cared for and accepted and

(01:05:54):
loved.

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Ana Crusis : Drag Pageantry, Imagination, & Civic Engagement | Sex, Stigma, & Misinformation II

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ana Crusis : Drag Pageantry, Imagination, & Civic Engagement | Sex, Stigma, & Misinformation II