Della Licious | Kristen Browde : Fighting Fascism with Trans Joy, Queer Power & Public Health - The Trans Narrative Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Well, hi everyone. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative podcast. I'm so delighted to be here with
Della Licious. Hi Della.
Well, hello, how are you my friend?
I'm so good. It's so good to have you here.
Thanks for being here. It's.
Good to be here. Thank you for having me.
Yes. And we're also joined with
Jordan Braxton. Hi, Jordan.

(00:21):
You were just here with us. It's so good to have you back.
Oh, thank you for asking me back.
I loved everything about this show and I'm excited to be back
on this podcast again. And I'm so honored to be with
some extinct, some distinguishedpanelists today.
It's such a pleasure. I'm so happy that you're here.
Thank you. Was that your pageant?
Like, is that how you introduce yourself to the judges at a

(00:43):
pageant? I said hi, I'm Jordan Braxton.
I just wanted to tell you it is so nice to be here and this
pageant and English panel of judges.
Well, I'm so glad to be here with you and returning once
again, It's Kristen Brody. Hello.

(01:03):
Hi, thanks for having me back. Oh my God, it's so good to have
you back. Thank you for being here.
So before we get started, I would like to read everyone's by
and just to re or to familiarizeour audience again with each of
you. So Kristen Brody is a powerhouse
of visibility, advocacy and leader.

(01:25):
Accune. A veteran journalist with years
at CNN and CBS News, Kristen hastranslated her media experience
in the formative legal and political advocacy for the LGBT
Care Plus community. As the current president of the
Florida Democratic Party LGBTQI Plus Caucus and Vice President
of the National Federation of Stonewall Democrats, she has a

(01:45):
strategic force behind her policy fights for trans rights
and broader equality. Her journey from newsroom to
courtroom has been defined by a refusal to accept silence in the
face of injustice. Her voice continues to carry
across movements, elections, andcommunity organizing spaces
alike. Kristen, thank you for being
here. My pleasure.

(02:07):
Jordan Jordan Braxton is a beloved fixture in Saint Louis
and a visionary leader whose activism spans nearly 4 decades.
Whether as a performer, as Diet of Pepsi, or as a policy
advocate working within city andstate systems, Jordan has fused
glamour with grassroots action. As Director of Diversity,
Inclusion and Outreach for PrideSaint Louis, Vice President of

(02:28):
Saint Louis Black Pride, and chair of the Mayor's LGBT Care
Plus Advisory Board, she embodies intergenerational
stewardship. She also brings depth to her
public work with at Vieta Health, with a focus on HIV,
AIDS prevention and care. Jordan's founding of the
Transgender Memorial Garden, a sacred site of mourning and
resilience, cements her legacy and honoring trans lives to

(02:50):
beauty and performance. Jordan, thank you for being
here. Thank you for inviting me, it's
an honor. And returning for the 95th time,
It's delicious. The 95th time this week I feel
like is what it is. Della Licious is the heartbeat
of Fort Wayne's queer nightlife in a radiant symbol of what it

(03:12):
means to serve, perform, and give back with style.
A 20 year veteran of the drag scene at only 29, Della
seamlessly blends humor, hospitality and community care,
hosting dazzling performances atAfter Dark while also producing
monthly brunches that raise funds for the positive Resource
Connection. With her signature wit,
rhinestone flair, and devotion to HIV AIDS education, she

(03:36):
uplifts. She uplifts queer visibility in
small town America, proving thatresistance doesn't always roar.
It can also shimmer, strut and serve pie with a sign of
advocacy. I would like to point out that I
did not write any of that. I did because I couldn't gush
that much over myself. Like that was not only gushing,

(03:57):
it was edging. That was a lot.
Well, it's thank. You.
Yes, absolutely. So beautiful.
Well, it's it's wonderful to be with you too.

(04:18):
Jella from the place I was born and Jordan from where I spent
4th grade through high school, and both places in which I think
people would be shocked to learnthat there are vibrant queer and
drag scenes. I mean, I never knew as I was.

(04:39):
I mean, I was a baby in in Fort Wayne, but when I went 4th grade
through high school and I was this little queer kid wandering
around wondering what the heck'sgoing on here.
I never found anything in Saint Louis except for one tiny gay
bar, which I snuck into at a tender age when I was still in

(05:03):
high school. Dell, I guess start, we'll start
with you. Fort Wayne, IN is not where you
would expect there to be a vibrant scene, but you've you're
part of something that's amazing.
I'm I, I've been part of that scene for 23 years and being the
tender age of 29, I don't know how I do it, but here we are in

(05:27):
Fort Wayne. Like I've noticed that in a lot
of small towns in Fort Wayne is the second largest city in the
state of Indiana. So we're not like we're not like
Marion IN to give a reference toto my friend Caroline.
It's not so podunk and it's surprising how even as red of a

(05:52):
state as Indiana is, which I'm sure that both Jordan and you
Kristen can can identify with that, you know, living where you
live, there's still so much acceptance.
Like you have people that are sobrave and they get just
testicular fortitude when they are behind a keyboard.

(06:14):
However, face to face it's just nothing but love and admiration.
And until I start talking about why Donald Trump should go fuck
himself and Elon Musk's head should explode like one of his
cars. Jordan, what's Saint Louis like
these days? It's been a while since I've
been back. What?

(06:36):
We have one of the most vibrant drag scenes in the country.
I mean, we have drag every nightof the week here in Saint Louis.
I mean, you can't throw a rock without hitting a drag queen.
So yes, we have 9 bars that are open.
Every bar does drag. We have so many drag pageants

(07:00):
here. We have so many drag, drag
crowned Queens here. I mean, it's vibrant.
It is busy. We are always at the epicenter
of what's going on in drag in the state of Missouri.
So it's, you know, from the day you were here and there was one
puppy tidy bar. We have grown so big.
It's so accepting. Look, we have we have a mayor

(07:24):
that has an LGBTQI counselor anda drag queen and a trans woman
is the chair of that. I mean, how much more
progressive can you get than that?
Well. It's Saint Louis has never been
the same as the rest of Missouri, but.
No. That that's, that's quite
amazing. May I just spin this a little
bit because both of you being involved in drag is really sort

(07:47):
of fortuitous from my perspective.
Because the one thing that we inFlorida are coming to grips with
is that a lot of people really don't get that there is a
difference in most cases, not all, between being a drag
performer and being a trans person.

(08:08):
That one is a persona and the for performance and the other is
really who you are. And I'm wondering how you deal
with that or whether it's a confusion in Indiana and and
Missouri like it is down here? I, I find that like, I, I

(08:30):
identify as, as a male, I don't,I'm very lucky not to be
bothered by pronouns, even though my preferred pronoun is
your majesty and I identify as aheadliner.
My, my, my feeling on that is that like there's the persona

(08:50):
comes with you're putting on thelashes and having that buffer
zone. This is not my real life.
And I think that there are very few entertainers who in their
real life act the way that they do on stage and have that kind
of confidence. There was a trans woman who
lived here that I was best friends with and on stage in the

(09:13):
bar, she was the most confident person.
But going to Walmart, she had blinders on because she didn't
want to look around. And that was insane to me.
Thankfully, I'm the same height as she was, so when we would go
to the store together, I would make a big spectacle of myself
so that she could just kind of fade into the, the background

(09:35):
and not be the focus point. And I, I think that that's I, I,
I think that people fetishize drag as much as they fetishize,
fetishize transpeople. And I wish that like Jordan, I
see you have a great shirt that talks about HIV, but I think

(09:57):
that you should also have on onethat says just because I'm trans
doesn't mean I want to suck yourDick.
I have one of those. I wore the shirt today because I
did a little research on you Della, and I saw that you were
involved in HIV research and allthat stuff.
So I said wear something that that Stella will appreciate.
So thank you I. Appreciate.

(10:18):
I appreciate you appreciate me. And I'm going to just derail the
conversation for a second beforewe get back on track.
So Jordan, when I started my journey of drag 23 years ago, I
was looking for a name and somebody suggested, they said
there's a very famous queen named Diana Pepsi, and she has a

(10:40):
daughter called Pepsi to 1. And so I've known of you for 23
years and I'm very, very excitedto actually get to meet you.
Because honestly, when I read the transcripts and the
breakdown of how the show was going to go 22 minutes before it
started, when Caroline said it, I, I was gobsmacked.

(11:05):
And like, shut the front door, kids.
I know we're we're all like connected some kind of.
Yes, yes. And before we came on, I'm going
to keep drilling this, I told Christine, I said, Oh my God,
I've seen you on TikTok and I follow you all the time.
And I can't believe I'm getting to meet you.
And it's just, I know it's just it's a small world.
And thank Caroline for bringing us all together.

(11:28):
So, you know, Christian, you asked me in Saint Louis.
We have a lot of trans women that do drag, but my journey
about drag started because Dietta was created to cover up
the fact that I wanted to transition because I was one of
these gay boys who first said I'm never going to put on a

(11:49):
dress. I'm never going to be one of
those Sissy Queens. I would never do that.
So I denied it. But all the time in my gut, I
knew I wanted to transition. So I used Dietta to be a prelude
for Jordan. So and my friends will tell you,
even when I was male presenting,then die Dietta, now I'm Jordan.

(12:12):
Everything that comes out of this mouth is the same.
There's nothing that's different.
I even when I went, I just went back to my 45th high school
reunion and my classmates said you're the same old Braxton
because they called me Braxton in high school.
They said you're the same old Braxton We went to high school
with. Nothing's changed about you.
I said, yes, y'all, there's onlya couple of things that changed

(12:32):
about me, but I'm still the sameperson.
And so when I talk about my journey, I said Dieta was there
to protect Jordan until she was ready to come out.
And baby, she is out. And there's no putting that
genie back in that circular bottle anymore.
Yeah, that's, that's interestingbecause that's my experience

(12:56):
too. I just came back from my 25th
law school reunion. And this would be, I'm not going
to say how many years since highschool, but when I went out to
Saint Louis County for my 50th reunion a few years back, people
were like, well, the bulk of them were like, damn, who's this

(13:16):
kid versus all these old folks, these old, these old boys,
Because I went to what they thought was an all boys school.
I had to let them know. Wrong.
But I don't use, you know, it's interesting you use the word
transition. It's not a transition for us.
We are who we were before. Just a hell of a lot better
dressed and a lot happier. Yes, and and people ask me now

(13:39):
like just last week when I said,oh, I got to get in drag,
somebody said, do you really? Are you still a drag queen?
I said, yes, drag is a term. It's just, you know, I have, I
had male drag, then I did femaledrag, then I've just drag is
what you put on every day. We got business drag, you got
law drag, you got, you know, construction worker drag, you

(14:01):
got all kind of drag. So I said.
Are you, are you saying the Village people?
I've busted. I almost went there.
I was like, OK, now police and drag and drag, but no, so it's
just drag is what you put on. But I'm just saying, like you
say, Christine, I to me, I don'tfeel like I changed Like some

(14:24):
people, some trans women will cut up pictures of themselves or
they're said, oh, my dead name. I don't a dead name.
I got a former name. I got pictures of myself.
I'll post them on Facebook because it's a journey and I
want to remember this journey myself and educate people with
that. Carolyn, is that your experience

(14:45):
too? Oh, I resonate with that so
much, you know, especially as oflately because I've, you know,
I, I think with the trauma that I dealt with in my life that I,
that I dissociated when I came to terms with my gender identity
years ago and. You need to speak up a little,
get a little closer to the mic. I'm sorry, I, I, I definitely

(15:05):
feel that that is my experience.I many years ago, you know, came
to terms with my identity and I associated with, with my former
self and only over the past, youknow, recently have I
reassociated with so much of that part of me that I, that I
now I don't feel and, and I didn't feel, you know, I didn't

(15:26):
feel like I was a different person, although I had
associated. So I do definitely feel that
resonates with me so much because I recently had just said
to myself, I don't have, I don'tlike the term dead name because
like that's, that's, you know, that was a part of it was my
father's name. 1 So you know to say, you know, so I you know.

(15:47):
I'm named after my father too. Absolutely.
And I'm just now learning about my family lineage and it's just
like seeing that name and now I can see my former name next to
my name and it doesn't create this Discord feeling.
It actually made me smile because like I didn't really
know myself prior to to Caroline.
So now that I'm seeing myself before in a different lens, it's

(16:11):
like I'm getting to know myself in new ways.
And and so it's like, I don't know, it's a really beautiful
experience. It's like an integration.
I really love that. So thank you for.
Yeah, I think of it as that's how we got here.
Yeah. You know, I, I don't know when
you guys came out, how old you were.
I was 65 when I came out publicly.
Now people knew long before thatwho were close to me, but I

(16:34):
didn't come out to the world until I was 65.
And I'm like, well, that guy whowas, you know, I mean, let's
face it, when you have a kind ofcareer like I had, there are
many, many more references to who I used to be than who I am
now. There's video of me all over the
place. So what am I going to?
I don't. That's how I got here.

(16:54):
I'm fine with that. And that's why I don't talk
about a transition. I talk about coming out.
I think about becoming I'm a I'm, you know, Caroline is the
becoming of of all of me. And it's really interesting
actually, because I publicly came out on, when I first came
out, it was, it was February 2ndof 2022.
I, I'm out on this podcast with Della was where the 1st place

(17:19):
that I publicly accepted my transness.
And, and I posted on Facebook that very day to accompany this
podcast. So, you know, it's so to be here
with Della again, it's so beautiful to have this
conversation. It's, it's like a full circle,
you know, it's, it's a beautiful, it's always a full
circle. Every time Della's here, you
know, it's always, always get sentimental.
You know that. It's also because I'm round.

(17:44):
I have a round face, I have a round body.
I'm built like a pair on Prednisone and.
You're wandering around in in nature, my God, so.
My dog is trying to get a rabbitand I'm trying to stop her from
having a hostage effort for lunch.

(18:05):
So that's why I'm in nature and nobody can see how how
absolutely gorgeous we all are. Which really pisses me off
because I mean, I'm a stunner. Like a Taser, I can.
Put this on YouTube. No, don't I look like a basket?
A hammer? Damn it, let's not do that.

(18:27):
Oh no, we're all beautiful. We are just.
You are beautiful, don't even lie, Della.
We're all beautiful. Well, isn't everybody, I mean,
in one way or not everybody? No.
No, I don't. You feel staying correct?
That's not Donald Trump, no. Taking bets?
No. OK, go down the list of the

(18:47):
administration. I had somebody bring me a shot
on stage. They brought me some fireball on
stage last night and I said, Oh my God, I could be president.
I just got a shot on stage and Iwish that the guy in
Pennsylvania just sneezed a little and it went a little to
the right. Like just why?
I, I think there are a lot of people who have had that kind of

(19:09):
thought. It is probably impolitic of us
to wish that. But hey, let's be real, that's
that has changed the trajectory for the bulk of of people who
are in the queer community in the United States right now.
And particularly. And it's it's it's great that we

(19:31):
have the two of you, Jordan and Della, because you're both very
active in in dealing with the crisis that is not over of HIV.
And people think, oh, HIV is, isa thing of the 80s and 90s.
It's not it's a thing of every single day.
So how do you, in the face of this, this denial that it's even

(19:56):
a problem, a denial that the United States cares about it,
how do you address that as you deal with communities that face
this kind of a threat every day?In my experience, it's people
think a it's over or they think that there's just going to be a

(20:19):
cure around the corner. And while we have things like
Prep that certainly cut down thethe transmission of HIV, the
stigma is still there. I remember it's not as bad as it
was. I remember going to San
Francisco as a child and my dad told us not to touch anything

(20:42):
because you might get AIDS. And I'm glad to see that a lot
of that stigma has gone away. But I'm, I know there's still
people that feel that way. And that's what's heartbreaking
because we can deal and make thedisease much more manageable
these days, But the stigma is really what is, I think, the

(21:06):
most detrimental. I remember this is going back a
few years. I was working as a local news
reporter in New York City at what, Channel 5 before it was
owned by Fox. If you could add a couple more
humble brags in about your 25th anniversary reunion from law

(21:29):
school and. I'm I'm going to be I.
Just feel like AI. Feel like a waterlogged potato
sitting in my Midwestern home. And you're like, well, you know,
when I was on CNN giving Andys to Anderson Cooper?
He came after he arrived. He.
Came after. He came after.

(21:53):
But no, I was at the New York State in the prison system, had
HIV prisoners back as early as the 80s and they put together
the first HIV AIDS ward. And we, you know, I was
obviously interested in what wasgoing on in our community even
back then when I wasn't out. And I went up there and my sound

(22:15):
man was back when we had sound man wouldn't put the lavalier
microphone on the inmate becausethe inmate had AIDS and he was
afraid he would get it by putting a microphone on the guy.
And that I said, look, union rules just don't throw a
grievance at me. Give me the mic.

(22:36):
And I put it on them because, you know, it wasn't going to
happen. But that fear in some people
still exists. And Jordan in Saint Louis, I
imagine, you know, while the city is great, you go outside
the city of Saint Louis, especially if you go up to
Springfield or or Columbia, you're going to run into people.

(22:58):
I mean, look at who your senators are.
Look at who your governor is. People.
Don't get it, do they? No, they don't.
Well, Deller mentioned Prep. So I do a lot of HIV education
and I travel around the state. You'd be surprised that we have
rural doctors who won't even talk to the gate clients that

(23:18):
they have about even getting on Prep.
They don't talk about Prep. They don't prescribe Prep.
I have friends that have to drive from Jefferson City to
Columbia to get their Prep. I have people that drive from
Warrington and Wentzville, whichis, you know, 30 and 40 miles
out of town to just come get tested because they don't trust
the doctors in their community, because, you know, out in High

(23:40):
Heel and Forest Hill, you and those small communities, they
all know each other. Sure, you know.
And so you might go to get tested.
And then even though we're all bound by hippo, we can't talk
about it. But you we all know and small
town and small town Missouri, it's going to, it's going to get
out. And, and I am an advocate for an

(24:02):
HIV test being part of everyone's annual physical.
A lot of people don't know that an HIV test is not given at a
you have to ask for it. Now they would do, they will do
syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, and that's part of it, but not
HIV. And I'm like, why isn't HIV part
of the physical? And most of the times I hear,

(24:25):
well, because, you know, I don't, I'm not gay.
And I'm like, first of all, HIV does not discriminate.
Not for age, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, it
age, whatever. It does not discriminate.
So that's the thing, that stigma, like Dilla said, there's
so much stigma that still surrounds HIV and prevention.

(24:48):
And then we've got the government that's trying to end
HIV research, prevention services, care, treatment.
They're trying to do away and cut Ryan White services, which
we know that Ryan White serviceshelp save lives.
We have so many people that are living with HIV on Ryan White
care. So we are trying our best to

(25:12):
stay in this fight and go to ourpoliticians, go to our small
towns because, you know, as you said before, all the blue around
Missouri is Kansas City, Columbia, Saint Louis.
The rest of the state is red. Springfield used to be a little
blue, but in these last couple elections, in turn, red, which
surprised me because we were making inroads into Springfield.

(25:35):
But it's those rural towns that we have to go to.
And yes, the conversation is going to be scary and difficult,
but those are conversations we have to have if we want to get
HIV laws protected here in the state of Missouri.
For real, my first one of my first jobs was in a summer camp

(25:57):
in Bourbon, MO down in the southeast.
Those people, they will, they will deny it, but it is
cisgender. Straight women in particular,
and some men who are getting infected because of the
ignorance, at least in our community, people know that it's

(26:20):
a threat. And people know there's Prep and
a couple of other other drugs now that that can be used.
But in the face of the Trump administration's absurd, absurd
attempts to just pretend it's oh, it's just among people we

(26:40):
don't care about, that's gettinglost.
It it reminds me so much of and yes, I'm going to age myself on
this. So I'm 29 1/2 designing women
the episode killing all the right people.
And it's, it's the erasure of ofthe acknowledgement that there

(27:05):
is an epidemic and it's still going.
Ronald Reagan never talked aboutit.
And I'm sure there's a special place in hell for for that, but
this administration's doing the same thing where it it's like
when he said, you know, we should stop testing for COVID
because then we won't have any new cases.

(27:25):
Well, what kind of pardon my French on that?
What kind of fucking idea is that?
To remove mention in education and testing because we don't
want to have a problem that to me says the problem's out of
control. What even makes it even more
stupid, Teller, is that ending the HIV epidemic, the EHE was

(27:50):
his idea. It was put in place during his
first presidency of a sudden youchange and you think, oh, we're
just going to thin out the herd by not funding any HIV research
when we're this close to, you know, we have people with HIV
turning 100 and and those are kind of things we need to

(28:11):
celebrate, not bastardize and punish those people who are
living with HIV because you think it's still a gay disease
when it's not. So that's why I'm out here in
these streets fighting. It's just to make sure that we.
At least they're turning 100, Jordan, at least.

(28:31):
Yes, at least they're turning 100, and I applaud that.
But do you know that most of thepeople living with HIV now are
50 and older? So we're aging with HIV and we
need those Ryan White services to continue.
We need legislation, we need laws.
We for funding and for making sure that as as people living

(28:54):
with the with HIV gets older, westill have the funding to
provide them the services, the life saving services that they
need. I think in a lot of parts of the
country, they're not going to. People will not know what Ryan
White services actually are. Can you explain that what those
services are? OK, so Ryan White services are

(29:14):
it's a government program. It all started.
I know we all remember the 9 year old young man that
contracted HIV and so when he died, it was a big, it was a big
heartache for the country because up until then, most
people associated HIV with, of course, Rock Hudson and queer

(29:35):
people. So Ryan White's mother testified
in front of the Senate and of a Congress and they passed funding
laws, the Ryan White Care Act tofund people living with HIV.
So that's how the, the Ryan White services came about.

(29:55):
And then I know W you mentioned that President Reagan didn't
mention anything about HIV. He didn't we the epidemic when I
first got involved, the epidemicwas 1982 when I raised money to
help start the agency that I nowwork for.

(30:16):
So people say, well, how are we going to survive without
funding? And I say, sweeties, we went
three years before we had any funding.
The government didn't say the phrase HIV or AIDS until 1985
when Rock Hudson died. God rest his soul.
He was the one who put the face on HIV and AIDS.

(30:36):
Then after that, that's when allthe money started coming in with
all the flowing started coming in.
But so that's why I say to people, we're going to make it.
We just have to be created. We might have to go back and
start acting up a little bit andshowing our asses because that's
how we acted because the government wasn't paying
attention. And not this what I tell you

(30:57):
what we need to do too. We need to start taking these
streets, acting up and making people know that we are here.
And I know that's hard for some trans people to do because
they're so afraid of, you know, we're already, we're all
traumatized because we have not gone a day, 24 hours while
hearing how negative trans people are since I think

(31:19):
November, maybe October, I thinkhere in Missouri, I haven't
heard stop hearing the word how bad trans people are since I
think it's been a year now, because everybody, everybody
here in the state of Missouri used trans people as their
whipping bitches, you know, whenthey were doing their campaigns.
So I've been here a while. So I just want to go one day

(31:44):
without hearing the word transgender.
Well, I, I think it's very interesting that the ones that
are under attack right now, it'snot trans people in general,
it's trans women. And I, I wonder if it's, I think
it's a mixture of people that are ignorant to what it means,

(32:08):
people that are uncomfortable because this is something
different that they never learned about in, you know, the
First Baptist Church. And I think it's also a lot of
people that are scared to see someone bravely stepping out of
their house as their true self or they think quietly in in the

(32:30):
back of their mind like they have a lot of trains porn on
their phone. Oh yeah.
And I think that's the, the amount of bravery to be yourself
is something that so many of these people don't have because
they just want to fit into theircookie cutter life, you know,
with everything in boxes, littleboxes, they're all made out of

(32:53):
chicky tacky and they all look just the same.
But yes, but, and, and when theysay that there's only two, they
said, well, there's two genders.And I'm like, first of all,
there's the difference between gender and sex.
They don't understand that. And I said there are more than
two sexes. If you just say there's male and
female, you are wiping out 2% ofthe population that are intersex

(33:16):
so. It's it's quite remarkable.
And, and I think Della, you saidit exactly.
It's all about trans women and the delicious irony from my
perspective that they don't want, you know, this whole thing
about, oh, we can't have men andwomen's sports.
But if you look at the laws as they are constructed now, you

(33:39):
have to have men and women's sports, trans men.
And in Texas, they found out thehard way.
They passed a law. And a high school wrestler, a
young trans man, won the state championship in the girls
division two years running because they wouldn't let him

(34:01):
wrestle against other boys. And they don't even think about
that. Right, they don't think.
About trans men. Kristen, let me ask you a
question. Can I ask you a question?
Of course. How do you think we as a
community can organize as a trans community?
Let's start with the trans community and then we're we'll
have that same question about the HIV community.

(34:23):
Well. You said.
It you said it, you know the answer to this and it's go back
to that model, go back to that model of act up, because silence
is deaf. Silence is deaf.
And there are two ways you do it.

(34:43):
It's not just blowing whistles and going to demonstrations.
It's living your lives out loud saying, hey, in my case, I'm a
lawyer, I'm a taxpayer. I've raised two kids.
I've put them through college. I pay my taxes, I contribute to
the local economy. I am, I've, I haven't, I've

(35:07):
never had so much as a parking ticket in the state of Florida.
What's your problem with me? Why are, and I had this exact
conversation because I imagine in Missouri and Indiana, you
have the same organizations. We have something called
Equality Florida and they organize lobbying days at the
state capitol. And I don't know if you'll

(35:29):
remember this, but there is a a state legislator who is a pastor
of an evangelical church by the name of Webster Barnaby who went
on a rant for 5 minutes when there were.
Wait, wait, wait. What's, what's his name?
Could you say it again? Barnaby.
Why does that sound like something from a really bad mid

(35:50):
60s Disney cartoon? Does he sound like a villain?
But I'll tell you what, it turnsout this story has a twist to
it. Webster Barnaby goes on this
rant maybe 3-4 years ago when young trans people testify
against one of the the bills that discriminate against
transgender people and he calls them demons and Imps, creatures

(36:11):
of Satan, and goes on for 5 minutes.
So the next year I'm up at I'm up at lobbying days and I made a
point of seeing Webster Barnaby.I go, Webster Barnaby, you're
just the man I wanted to meet. And he turns around and he sees
this older white woman who wantsto meet him.

(36:31):
He's this really large black man.
He's like, oh, hi, nice to meet you.
I go, I go through that speech. I've never had so much as a
parking ticket. I'm on my city's parks committee
and on our Traffic Safety committee.
I pay my taxes. I do this.
I do that. I raise two kids.
I want to know, Webster, why areyou trying to make my life hell?

(36:53):
And he's like, what? I go, well, I'm transgender and
I heard what you had to say. Oh, I'm not talking about you.
I go, yes, you were. Yes, you're talking about me.
And that opening led to two daysof conversations of several
hours. And it's been carried on every
year since. And he has not voted for an anti

(37:14):
trans bill since. He hasn't voted against them,
but he and 12 Republicans in theFlorida legislature walked out
rather than voting for them. And not one anti trans bill has
passed in Florida in those two years.
Now, I can't say that our conversation made a difference,

(37:36):
but I can tell you he doesn't gofor those bills anymore.
And he didn't talk about transgender people anymore.
And that's how you do it. You get to them and you
personalize it and let them knowthat it is their neighbors,
people who contribute to their communities.
And then when they still screw around with you, then you pull
out the whistles, right? That's my answer.

(37:58):
I don't know if it works for everybody, but that's my answer.
You know, I say act up until they act.
I say act up until they act right.
I'm right there with you. You got to make them hear you,
yes? Silence is deaf.
Yes, silence is deaf. And you know what I always say
too? Is how?

(38:22):
Where are my gay white friends? I get on them all the time.
I'm like, you know what? When the HIV epidemic first
started, I was there for you andI took care of you when your
family wouldn't, When we had don't ask, don't tell, I was
there marching with you. When we had marriage equality, I

(38:43):
was there. I raised money for you.
Take your asses on that bus to Washington to March.
But now that I need you, where are you to stand in solidarity
with me and and respect me? And when I see the people that
are let's just be LGB, that infuriates me because the T is
the anchor. We have so many rights as queer

(39:06):
people because of trans people. Trans people started our whole
queer liberation. So I think some of the
organizing and some of the education needs to start within
our own community because, you know, sometimes the cause of
hate are coming from in the house and in the house are are
our own community members who they say to me, I don't know

(39:28):
what to say. It's not my fight.
Well, be a woman said a cuss word when I said, OK, so
marriage equality, maybe it was not my fight.
Don't ask, don't tell was not myfight.
But I was still there because you needed me.
Yes. So how would you organize now if

(39:48):
you had to? I think that like I, I use my
microphone as a definite soapboxand I get into it a lot and I'll
do the, you know, instead of if you're happy and you know it,
clap your hands. I'll do if you're gay and, you
know, lesbian, whatever. And we got to the, the, the part

(40:12):
about transgender, I say use whatever bathroom you want to,
we don't care. Just wash your hands when you're
done. And I, I think normalizing that
trans people exist and will continue to exist and have
existed. This is not a fad.
This is not a phase. This is nothing new.

(40:35):
It's just they, you know, there's visibility now and to
get people to understand, as thesong says, people are people.
Why not I I just having a conversation and reminding
people that, you know, little gay boys, you didn't have

(40:58):
anything until the trans community showed up.
There was, you know, no, no white man through the 1st brick
at Stonewall. And it's, I think it's that goes
down to education because peopledon't understand what Stonewall
was and, and how, how all that happens.

(41:19):
And I think that that that organization and education I
think is the the roots of getting the support that you
need from from the broader community.
Yes. Carol, you're sitting in the
corner being quiet. Don't complain about that.
And she just mentioned no. I think she just lets us go and

(41:42):
sits back. Yeah, I'm here on every episode.
So, you know, it's, you know, I liked and the first Stella.
Oh, don't ever say that to me again.
The first, the first show that Idid with Caroline, she sounded
like Owen Wilson. They're just everything was wow,

(42:03):
wow, wow. So I will take silence in this
case. Silence does not equal death
there. You go so.
Kristen, can I ask you another question?
Sure. So, you know, we're facing Trump
2025 and all these all these political landscape.
So what are the real threats we're facing right now under the

(42:26):
political return, the under the potential return of Trump?
And how are we? Are we prepared for what he's
doing? Well, prepared is a really rough
word, I can tell you that. The litigation, every time he
pulls one of these unconstitutional beyond his

(42:49):
powers, it gets shot down by thecourts every single time.
Now, sometimes he doesn't exactly obey court orders.
Sometimes he pretends, oh, can'tdo it.
But yeah #1 we litigate that maninto submission because the
United States Supreme Court understands equal protection

(43:10):
under the law. They've made that clear.
If you go back to the decision in, in, in, in the RNG Harris
Funeral Home case within which atransgender woman who came out
was fired from her job and sued under the Civil Rights Act,
saying Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act says you cannot

(43:32):
discriminate on the basis of sex.
And discriminating on the basis of sex means if you think that
I'm not actually a woman, you can't discriminate against me
because I don't look like what you think a man should look
like. And the Supreme Court said, yes,
that is discrimination and no, you cannot fire her for that.
They found for the transgender person because it was a

(43:55):
violation of law. Now, the Trump administration
has said, well, we don't interpret the law that way.
They're only two sexes, blah blah blah, blah blah.
It's still the Supreme Court's ruling, and it is still the law
of the United States, whether Donald Trump and his group like
it or not. Well, to, to piggyback on that

(44:19):
with, you say, you know, the, the courts, you know, they shoot
down everything he's doing. But there is a concerted effort
right now to take away the powerof the judicial branch of
governments. And do you think in in your vast
experience with, with all of your degrees and all the the

(44:43):
newscasters you've slept with, do you feel that that he's going
to be able to essentially cut the judicial branch off at its
knees? I'm first counting those
newscasters I've slept with, trying to think How many do you
follow my first wife? But only network, only network.

(45:03):
We don't. We're not going.
Well, at ABC, thank you and I may have had a fling or two with
another. Oh.
Oh yeah, I did. Oh, I didn't know it was tea
time. This is wonderful.
Go ahead. But be that as it may, no, he
will not succeed in cutting off the judiciary.
They are a coequal branch of government.

(45:24):
And it still takes 60 votes in the United States Senate, which
he does not have. And in fact, I predict to you
right here, right now that with the economy, I believe already
in a recession, with your pricesfor groceries skyrocketing, your
prices for toilet paper skyrocketing, come the full

(45:49):
midterm elections, which are now, what, 19 months away?
He's not going to have a Congress.
The Republicans are going to lose control of the House, may
lose control of the Senate. There will be nowhere near 60
votes. His legislative agenda will be

(46:09):
dead on arrival. The only thing he's going to
have is his executive orders, which the courts will shut down.
And if he tries to go around thecourts, he'll have to go through
the United States Senate. He can't get there.
The constant Do I sound like a law professor?
I love it. The beauty of the United States

(46:31):
Constitution is that it doesn't care who the president is.
It doesn't care and it will stand.
He will try to push it, scrape it.
He will not get anywhere becauseeven Republicans, you look at
the polling, even Republicans are like, no, you can't do that
stuff. We, we would like it if you if,

(46:53):
if it would happen. But no, you can't do it because
you say so. You're not the king.
You're just the president. And a lot of people don't
understand that executive order is not law.
It's correct. I said that is.
That doesn't mean anything. It does.
It's just his opinion, I said. It's an instruction to

(47:16):
government departments to do certain things.
He instructs the Department of Health and Human Services.
I don't know if you've seen the report that they came out with a
couple of days ago. Now.
It is so, so flawed, so embarrassingly stupid about
transgender that no one would sign it.
They wouldn't even sign it. The authors of this report

(47:40):
declined to sign it. And you ask HHS who wrote the
report, they won't tell you. Oh, they might be harassed.
So we're keeping it secret. It is.
That's how they're playing. And now they're going to point
to this government report that says being transgender is a
danger. Come on.
They won't even sign their own reports.

(48:02):
That shows you how completely intellectually, morally, and
ethically bankrupt the entire administration has become.
Sorry, I get on a bit of a soapbox.
That's that's you can stay on that soapbox.
I will. We all, we all stand on our

(48:23):
soapbox, stand on our stages, stand on our high heels and
shout from all this from the highest mountains.
Not only that Trans is beautifuland that also I talk about HIV
all the time at my shelves. I'm not living with HIV, but I'm
an advocate and I go out here and you'd be surprised of the
stigma that people, because I always talk about HIV.

(48:45):
People ask me, well, how long have you had HIV?
I said I'm don't have HIV. I just out here talking about it
because your sexual health is just important as your regular
health. Like you don't ask the
cardiologist. Oh, do you have heart issues?
Is that why you're cardiologist?I'm like, no, I'm out here in
these streets fighting for transrights, fighting for HIV rights

(49:07):
because believe it or not, theseare human rights.
I think sometimes people forget that people live in HIV and
trans people are human beings, you know, And I'm just going to
throw this question out there toboth of you all.
So what do we say to the trans people and the people living
with HIV in these red states whoright now feel like they're

(49:31):
abandoned and everything is hopeless?
I moved to a red state because in New York, where I came from,
we had made equality of the law of the state of New York.
And I give great thanks to our former governor and accused

(49:53):
whatever Andrew Cuomo with whom we worked closely.
And he was wonderful. This is a man who got marriage
equality through a Republican controlled state state Senate
and then went on and got trans equality through the entire
legislature. He was wonderful on this.
That's what I say. I said we came, we came to

(50:15):
Florida the reddest and the mostobnoxious of the red states,
except for maybe Texas. And we're doing the work and we
are not forgetting. And no, I don't have HIV, but I
care as much about someone who does, you know, because that's
our community. These are people who need our

(50:35):
help and our obligation. I believe as people with
incredible privilege, the privilege to be able to, to
perform our art, to to be ourselves.
It is our obligation on every moral level to stand up for
those who need that help. That's just everything for me.

(51:00):
People in your state, I, I wouldsay it's if, if there's not a
seat at the table, generally they say pull up your own chair,
but there's some tables you justdon't want to sit at.
And honestly, if, if you have the means, move.

(51:22):
If you do not have the means, know that you are loved.
We see you, we care about you, and we will fight for you.
Just stay alive honestly. And I tell people, find
something that brings you joy because joy is all that we have

(51:47):
right now. I said this on the last podcast
last week. I was like, you know what?
You can talk shit on me. You can write legislative about
me. You can try to erase me.
But one thing you're not going to ever erase is my trans joy
and the joy that I have and the beauty that I have of being
transgender. You can't take that away from

(52:07):
me. Well, Speaking of your joy,
Speaking of your joy, you 2 engage in an art form that I
will confess that while I have admired from afar, I don't
really understand. I don't understand it.
So can we talk for a little bit about drag and, and its roots?

(52:29):
And because while I don't understand it, we got people who
are actively hostile to it. Well, also, just because you
watch RuPaul's Drag Race doesn'tmean you know everything about
drag. And just because you on it
doesn't mean you're a good drag.Right, right.
There are, There are so much many more talented people on

(52:51):
stages in Missouri and Indiana than there are on, you know, the
stage at RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars.
And I've worked with a lot of them.
I'm very sure Jordan has as well.
And they're they can be really nice, really sweet, and they can
be so full of themselves that they can taste their own shit
because they're so far up their own asshole.

(53:13):
But at the same point, local drag is generally better than
than what you see on that stage,and it's cheaper too.
Why do you think there's such hostility among the extremists
in the right wing to drag? They don't understand it, even

(53:35):
though drag has been part of their lives.
You have Misses, Doubtfire, you have Tootsie, you have Dame
Edna, you know. Before at Milton Berle.
Yeah, Jack Lemmon. I mean, some like it hot, Yeah.
So it's not you. God, even Earl Flynn back in the

(53:55):
sun, the days like wait a minute, Bugs Bunny, you turn on
on a cartoon, he's on high Hoarddrag.
But wait, that's woke. Stop.
But it's not. But why are?
What is their problem? But it's.
They are scared of things they do not understand, and they
don't understand the they don't understand drag because they've

(54:17):
never been to a show. They just know what their pastor
says about it on Sundays. They know what their their
politician says about it when they're trying to stomp on an
already disenfranchised group. Or when they without actually
going there. And, you know, we had a case

(54:38):
here where a mother brought her three young daughters to a drag
show as a brunch. The kids had a blast.
You know, the drag queen was notdressed provocatively.
The kids came up and gave her a dollar and she picked him up and
hugged him and danced around with him.
And the kids were all laughing. They used that mother a tape of

(55:01):
that mother taking her kids to adrag show to try to get her kids
taken away from her. They did not succeed, did they?
No, they did not. Yes, right.
DFS showed up to their house three times saying they were
endangering their children and we and the tape was played where
the kids were having a good time.

(55:22):
I don't know why they bastardized drag Queens.
I think it's because they want to do drag, but they don't have
the balls to do it. You know, and I what they say
about trans women. Do you all, I'm like, do you all
know or do you all not read the news where all the molestations
of children happen with priests and straight white men?

(55:46):
Not once have you ever gotten a report of a trans woman
attacking a woman in the bathroom.
We just go in there to pee. That's all we do.
And I tell people here in Missouri, you know what, I've
been going to the women's bathrooms that last 25 years,
and I only transitioned 10 years, 12 years ago.
So I've been going in there. People just thought I was a

(56:07):
lesbian. So it's not.
People really don't pay attention.
And you know when the man, the real tough guy, said, well,
obviously a trans woman go in the bathroom, I'm going to beat
her ass. Well, baby, you don't even know.
Well, more often than not, beating a cisgender lesbian.
Yes, and we've seen those reports too, where cisgender

(56:28):
women have been asked for ID in the bathroom because people
thought they were trans. Some, some more than just asked
for Idi mean in a couple of cases.
Yeah, they've wanted to see their genitals.
They've, well, some of them eaten up.
Yeah. You know.
Justin, I, I actually experimented 4 years ago with

(56:51):
drag and that experience open the door for my, It was like I
got permission to, to experimentmore with my gender and, and who
I was as a person. And it was due to those
experiences through the, the Fort Wayne scene with Della and,
and the people in that communitythat that embraced me and

(57:13):
brought me in and, and, and painted me up and allowed for me
to express myself in ways that led to, to Caroline and I.
I I want to ask Della, what are some powerful memories or
moments that you'd like to sharethat that you know will maybe
help others understand exactly what drag is and how it's
impacted your life? Drag, in essence, is

(57:37):
entertainment. I mean, Patti LaBelle talks
about the stuff she wears on stage as drag.
Drag is definitely not for everyone.
Drag is most certainly not a career for many.
It's a very expensive hobby. But drag is at Bare Bones

(58:02):
entertainment. You get to experience everything
that is great about a Las Vegas nightlife at a drag show for,
you know, a 5 or $10 cover charge.
You don't have to worry about having a Real ID to go to Nevada
and lose your ass on the slot machines.

(58:22):
You just go to your your local establishment.
But it's it's empowerment, it's entertainment and it's
expression. It is anything that you've ever
wanted from you're a Disney Princess mixed with an evil
queen covered in Liberace and rolled around in sequence.

(58:44):
Is is that's what drag is to me.And I've been in so many shows
where there have been, I've beenin front of 10,000 people,
15,000 people and gotten the, the experience to, to really
connect with that audience. And at that scale, that's a lot.

(59:04):
That's something that you wouldn't be able to do as you
know, an accountant or an investment Baker or an attorney
that slept with 45 different newscasters.
Like I, you, you don't get that.And it's it, that to me is, is

(59:24):
just incredible. I've had some scary moments.
I've had police officers surrounding me just to get me up
to a stage because there have been threats on the event and my
life. But at the same time, the show
must go on. And so it's, it's thumbing your

(59:48):
nose at people that want to discredit you and attack you and
still going out there and being entertaining.
Yes. And you said drag is not for
everyone. We say drag is not for sissies.
Right. And even though all drag well,
so so Jordan, I, I I'm very sureyou'll agree with me on this

(01:00:11):
that all drag is valid, but thatdoesn't mean all drag is good I.
Cannot. OK.
So we're in this situation in which states have passed anti
drag laws and some of them have tried to enforce anti drag laws.

(01:00:34):
What do you tell younger performers who might be afraid
that, well, Gee, if I if I get up on stage, I'm of a problem?
The in Indiana, the one they're trying to pass right now is that
adult entertainment cannot be inview of a child.

(01:00:55):
And they don't they, they don't,they're very abstract about the
language. And I think that they're, that's
most certainly on purpose. So they can can twist it for
whatever purpose they need. There is already a plan that if
that passes in the state of Indiana, I'm going to be going
to lock up well. You're not going to be going to
lock up, but you will be going to court.

(01:01:16):
And those laws get struck down right and left because they
violate the First Amendment. They violate your right to free
speech, performance is speech. And they also violate equal
protection. So, you know, if, if, if a woman
could be, if a cisgender woman could be on stage wearing the

(01:01:39):
same clothing that you are and it is not within the law yet you
as, as a cisgender or as a, as acisgender man can't wear the
same club. That's an equal protection
violation. Sorry.
Right. And it's funny that the same
laws are written and tried to pass mistake to say, like Doug,

(01:02:02):
you just said you had this law where if you can't be in the
view of a child anywhere, we have the same thing here in
Missouri. Well, this passed around.
There is a group called Alec, American Legislative Executive
Committee or something like that, that takes these model
laws and passes them from state to state, asks does the American
Enterprise Institute. They have people who that's

(01:02:27):
their job. They take these laws from state
to state, find some legislator who wants to put their name on a
bill and there it is. They're cookie cutter.
They just change a couple of words and then off they go and
they get struck down from state to state, but they keep trying.
Yeah, Here in Missouri, there were, we had some laws that

(01:02:49):
didn't make it out of session because the Republican senator
that introduced them, he came todrag shows.
I said, what's he doing? They told me his name.
I'm like, what? And they I said, Chris, come
over here. He's like, yes ma'am, I'm like,
you sponsored this bill and you've come to drag shows,

(01:03:11):
you've tipped me, you've put dollar bills in places I can't
mention right now. You want to I said you he said,
well I'm I, I did. He said.
I was kind of pressured by and before that hearing he ever drew
all of his support for the anti trans bills.
It's one writer crashes every time there's a Republican

(01:03:31):
convention. Yes.
And I said, why? Oh yeah, let's not talk about
that. And let's not forget when those
religious organizations like my brother's keepers, then all that
stuff, when they come to town, baby, we won't go.
Yes, they grinder goes off, girlsex workers salaries go up.

(01:03:55):
You know, trans women get taken out to dinner.
So you know. So let me ask, let me ask you
this, let me ask everybody this.What is something, since we're
such in doom and gloom, what is something beautiful that made
you feel alive this week? That it's refreshing that you're

(01:04:18):
asking that. But at the same point I, I try
to find joy in the little things, I just will end up
cracking myself up about the dumbest thing or I just look at
my dog who's currently storing next to me.
Like that's that's where I find joy in, in finding, finding

(01:04:43):
something that's funny. Not in an absurd way, because
God knows the headlines have been so absurd for the last,
they say 105 days, but it feels more like 105 years.
I, I, I, I think you just have to, you have to find joy in
whatever, whatever there is because there is so much doom

(01:05:09):
and gloom. And even if it's something as
trivial as, you know, sneaking yourself a piece of chocolate,
which sounds amazing by the way,Thank you for that idea.
A big old piece of chocolate cake sounds really good.
How do you know what really sounds good is that chocolate
cake from Matilda that Bruce Bondtrotter had to eat the

(01:05:31):
entire confection? Yes.
That looks so good and I'm diabetic.
I'd lose a foot over that, like right.
You know, one of my favorite, one of my favorite things is
death by chocolate. You ever had that cake?
Yeah. Oh my God, it's so much
chocolate. It's so rich, It's so decadent.
I love it. So what brought me what brought

(01:05:53):
me joy this week? Let's see.
I don't know, I, I read the headlines and I laugh and I'm
like, shit, that'll be overturned in a couple of days.
You know, it's unconstitutional.I tell girls, girls, just go
ahead and be yourselves. The biggest joy I get is just
being me because as we've said earlier in this podcast, this

(01:06:15):
ability do you know every day the trans women, we go outside
this door every day that we liveour lives, that is resistance.
Every time deli you get on stage, you do a show that it's
resistance because they'll get pissed off because we're not at
home underneath the covers in a fetal position crying because
there's some bill out there. If they're trying to pass, I'm

(01:06:38):
like, no, you're not going to get that kind of power over me,
so I'm going to put my joy rightthere on front St. all in your
face. Now they want to talk about
their crime and their agendas down our throat.
No, I'm cramming my joy down your throat, not my joystick,
because I no longer have that. Just.

(01:06:59):
Crystal, what about you? Well, with Jordan, you know,
live every day that you get to live out loud is a is a day of
joy. But I will tell you the 60 most
dangerous days every year in Florida are the 60 days that our
state legislature is in session.Forget hurricane season.
That's the real deal. Those 60 days came to an end

(01:07:21):
Friday, and not one, not one of the more than 20 anti trans,
anti LGBTQ bills even made it out of committee.
Not one. That's joy.
But Kristen, I know we're supposed to move on, but I'm
hijacking because I still have ajoystick.

(01:07:42):
Kristen, do you do you think that they're they're like really
compounding bill on top of bill on top of bill because they know
that it's going to get, even though it'll eventually get
struck down. They're just trying to overwhelm
the court. No, no, the reason, the reason

(01:08:03):
they do this, knowing that thesebills are unconstitutional, is
that they get to go back to their base, to their voters and
say we are standing up against those evil trans folk, those
evil gay folk, those people who will destroy your children.
You've got people like Elon Musk, who has to be the worst

(01:08:25):
parent in the world, whose oldest child came out as trans
and who who lost it. I mean, you know, he used, he
thinks he's breeding some super race by impregnating women all
around the world and they're hisoldest kid comes out as trans.
Yikes. Rather than, you know, you're

(01:08:47):
not a bad parent if you have a trans kid, you're a bad parent
if you lose a trans kid. Well, he lost a trans kid.
You have people like that who are flipping out and they get to
go back to their base and say, look what how this destroyed our
family. It didn't destroy your family.
You destroyed your family. But that's what it's all about.

(01:09:11):
They're just using it because asDonald Trump says, I mean, he
said it in his interview today. He said, well, you know, men and
women's sports is a is a, it's not, it's not a 5050 issue.
It's a 9010 issue. I win with that.
They think they win by villainizing us.
And the response to that is to go out and be yourself and show

(01:09:35):
that there's nothing villainous about us.
We're just folks who want to live our lives in good
communities, have good places toraise our kids and our families
and reasonable taxes and a nice place to live our lives.
That's, you know, that's the real transgender agenda, that
there it is right there, living our lives in peace just like

(01:09:58):
everybody. Else, and if you don't think I
exist and you don't want me to exist, then can I please get
back every goddamn cent I paid in taxes since I was 15 years
old, state and federal? Thank you.
That you don't think I exist, then you get no more of my tax
money, right? Oh, but the taxes.

(01:10:21):
But there's not going to be any more federal income tax anymore
anyway, so. Oh no.
Not with these, not with these tariffs.
I mean they're. Doing such a great job.
Please Caroline. What about you, babe?
What brings me joy? Yeah.
Or. Well, I got a washer and dryer
delivered this week and a bed and it was delivered to me and

(01:10:42):
men brought it in and set it allup, which felt very good.
And and this is going to make, this is going to make Della gag.
But I have not had meat in five days and I've only had water,
which feels really good because I've always been like into plant
based types of food. So that's making me feel alive

(01:11:03):
and bringing me joy. So what's do you mean?
Do you mean meat or do you mean you said those wash and dry
those people brought your working dry it in?
Did you test them out that day? No, I'm, I cut out, I cut out
the meat of cows and such, you know, not of the, not of not the

(01:11:23):
tooth. Steak.
No, no. Not of many.
No. No, but we we love a good
season. Yeah.
I don't know where I was going with that.
I don't know, I interrupted. Go ahead As you were.
Well, you know, I really like what Kristen said about being
yourself. And, you know, Speaking of being
yourself, if you want to be yourself on this podcast, please

(01:11:44):
e-mail us at transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
That's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
I'd love to have you on the showand Share your story and, and
have conversations just like this.
This has been a real this has been a joy.
This is what brings me joy to toreally answer that question.
Having having conversations weekafter week every weekend by the

(01:12:05):
way that I do because I do this every weekend, fella, just like
you to the bar. I'm here every weekend doing
this podcast and I and I love itand brings me such joy and it's
so good to have had this wonderful conversation with all
of you. Well.
Thank you. Thank you for doing it.
Thank you for giving us a platform to share our stories
and to just get on our soapboxes.

(01:12:28):
And thank you for introducing meto these two awesome people who
I didn't know. This is like.
Amazing so now I'm going to haveto search through TikTok to find
you Kristen you can find me on the TikTok as well I went super
viral with one of mine it got like 1300 views so I'm.
Wow. Well, she, well, Della, Della

(01:12:50):
actually shot Della as a matter of fact, well.
Della, if you TikTok, I'm going to follow you right now.
Della Licious FW. All right.
I'll send you, I'll send you Kristen's page on on Facebook
Messenger. So rest assured, you know I will
so and ask you about your next time coming on.
So I'll have that, maybe August.I know that.

(01:13:11):
Well, this has been so much fun.So as as we begin to wrap up, I,
I really just I want to, I want to appreciate our audience for
being here and tuning in every week.
It really means a lot. And for all of you being here,
Kristen, Jordan, Della, what, what a what a joy.
And as we begin to wrap up, I'd like to ask all three of you
parting question to carry through to the speak with us.

(01:13:33):
There's a message to carry with us.
So Della, what message would youlike to leave our audience with
as we carry on this week? Dope kindness to people.
Just show kindness to people because you never know what
promise they have and why they behave the way they do.

(01:13:57):
But don't be a doormat. Jordan, would you like to leave
us with this week? Just get out there and be you.
Forget what the world says aboutyou.
Look in the mirror, brush your teeth, look in the mirror.
Say to yourself, that's one finebitch, then go out the door and

(01:14:20):
show the world how confident andbeautiful you really are and
don't let nobody steal your joy.That's something that Chelsea
Pearl said to me once. Yeah, I don't let anyone I was.
A competition together. She was such just a light.
And I did make the joke to her one day when I was helping her

(01:14:44):
husband, Marcus, get her into a rhinestone course.
And I said, would you please stop using these acrylic stones?
And Marcus said, I wish she would because, you know, she was
always covered in crystals. But yeah, that's that's one
thing she said to me. We she stayed with me when she
was here and we went out to dinner and she said, I just

(01:15:05):
won't let anyone steal my joy. And that's something that stuck
with me. Kristen, what would you like to
leave us with as we depart? I don't know whose line it was
originally, but somebody said none of us can do everything,
but all of us can do something, do something.

(01:15:28):
I don't care whether it's going out to serve food at a soup
kitchen, if it's going out to register voters, if it's going
out to demonstrate against the insanity of the Trump
administration, if it's just posting on social media that you
won't have this crap from Washington, DC or from your
State House, All of us can do something.

(01:15:51):
So do something. Silence is death.

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Della Licious | Kristen Browde : Fighting Fascism with Trans Joy, Queer Power & Public Health

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