On this episode, Athena, Caroline, and Jordan are joined by Indy Pride’s own Hudson Gaunt, a transmasculine, non-binary, autistic, Hispanic pagan and EMT whose life is rooted in radical care, community resilience, and queer joy. Together, they dive into Hudson’s personal journey, from growing up in a conservative religious household to becoming a visible and vital advocate for inclusive queer spaces in Indianapolis. With honesty and depth, Hudson shares the formative moments of their self-discovery, the tension between identity and faith, and how they’ve woven together their lived experiences to shape both their spirituality and community activism.
As the conversation unfolds, the group explores the evolving meaning of Pride, especially under the growing shadow of political backlash and anti-trans legislation. Hudson offers a behind-the-scenes look at their work with Indy Pride, highlighting efforts to create trauma-informed, accessible events like the “Mellow Cello” sensory tent and the Transmixer. They reflect on their desire for Pride to be less corporate, more community-driven, and genuinely inclusive, built not on performance, but on shared values of safety, belonging, and liberation.
In a world that often tries to erase or sanitize queer complexity, this episode becomes a love letter to intersectionality, lived truth, and the healing power of chosen family. Hudson’s story reminds us that Pride isn’t just a party, it’s a practice. A practice of showing up, of holding space, and of daring to imagine futures where everyone belongs.
“Hudson Gaunt is a multifaceted soul whose life and work embody resilience, authenticity, and radical care. A Queer, Non-Binary, Autistic, Hispanic, Pagan, Trans cat-dad and EMT, Hudson holds space at the vibrant intersections of identity, disability, and community healing. Raised in a conservative town by a pastor, Hudson’s early life was marked by suppression, of truth, of expression, of joy. But after finding affirmation and belonging within the Indianapolis queer community, Hudson committed himself to creating safe, affirming spaces for others. As the Office Manager for Indy Pride, he now works to ensure the organization reflects the full spectrum of identities it serves. Hudson brings lived experience, spiritual depth, and a creative lens to everything he touches, building community not just with systems—but with soul.”
**
“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline, and today I have
the pleasure of being here with Athena.
Oh my God. Hi, Athena.
Hey, it's good to be back. Well, it's so good to have you
and Jordan. Jordan Braxton.
Hello. Hello, how are you doing?
I'm so good. It's so good to have you back.
(00:21):
Thank you for being here. Thank you for asking me back.
Yes, And joining us today as we begin Pride Month, it's Hudson
Gaunt. Hello and welcome.
Hello, thank you for having me. Yes, so good to have you.
So before we get started a little bit about Hudson.
Hudson Gaunt is a multi faceted soul whose life and work
(00:42):
embodies resilience authenticityand radical care.
A queer, non binary, autistic, Hispanic, Pagan, trans, cat, dad
and EMT, Hudson hold space at the vibrant intersections of
identity, disability, and community healing.
Raised in a conservative town bya pastor, Hudson early life was
marked by suppression, the truthof expression, of joy.
(01:05):
But after finding affirmation and belonging within the
Indianapolis queer community, Hudson committed himself to
creating safe, affirming spaces for others.
As the office manager for Indy Pride, he now works to ensure
the organization reflects the full spectrum of identities it
serves. Hudson brings lived experience,
spiritual depth, and a creative lens to everything he touches,
(01:26):
building community not just withsystems, but with soul.
Hudson, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for having me. That's so nice so.
Beautiful. Oh, hey, hey, everybody, and
(01:46):
welcome back to the Trans Narrative Podcast.
We are here today with our fabulous, wonderful guest,
Hudson Gaunt. Hi.
Hi, Hudson. How are you doing?
I'm doing well. How are you doing today?
No, I'm all right. Are you ready for the Pride
season? I am our pride season is already
kicked off full swing. We had an event earlier this
morning that I was out there doing celebrating pet pride.
(02:09):
So we're really, we're really ready all.
Right. We thank you for taking the
opportunity out of your businessschedule.
Just sit down and talk to us. Thank you for having me.
I think I'm just going to kick off the first question that we
already asking everybody is whatwas it like growing up in a
conservative environment as someone who held so many unseen
and unspoken identities? That's a great question.
(02:34):
For a lot of my life I didn't even really know what being gay
or trans or queer was. It wasn't until I was I think 9
that I first heard reference to gay people and it was my uncle
making the joke God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
(02:55):
And then the next time I really heard about queer people, trans
people specifically, was when Caitlyn Jenner came out.
And my family was very negative,had a lot of bad things to say.
And so growing up like that, I was very anxious.
I was very shy, and I was just akid that always wanted to get
(03:21):
out there and meet people but didn't really know why.
It didn't seem to fit in SO. You know, being a preacher's kid
has a lot of pressure because you're constantly in the public
eye and constantly under your parents supervalence.
It's definitely a lot to try andkeep up with and some families
are more demanding than others, of course, but how did that
(03:44):
shape? Like, how did that build your
world whenever you were young, and how has that changed since?
Yeah, yeah. Growing up, I was in church at
least three days a week. I would go on, you know, the
youth trips with my dad because my dad was a youth pastor for a
long time. And so I was surrounded by all
(04:05):
of these older teens, all of these older kids really still,
because they're, they were stillkids, but they were the people
that I looked up to most becauseas a child, you don't really
look up to adults. You look up to the teenagers and
that seeing the stifling of them.
(04:27):
Like I still remember thinking like certain things were weird,
certain things seemed strange with people and not
understanding what it was and like coming to realize later in
life like that person was queer.I grew up, even after my dad
stopped being a pastor, I continued going to church in
(04:52):
that same way and really, reallyclinging to religion because I
thought that if I was just a good enough Christian and I just
did everything and I put in my entire soul into that, then I I
wouldn't have space to do anything else or be anything
else. So I really leaned into it like
(05:14):
dresses and church wear and, youknow, all the things.
So yeah. I like I like a good church
wear. Honestly, I can rock a sun
dress. OK, I love that.
So what were some of your early signs or moments of when your
true self started to emerge? Going to church and going to
(05:36):
Vacation Bible school and all those things we good Christians
do. I remember being at vacation
Bible school and being with one of my friends and she and I
snuck off and we kissed behind the like curtains and we're
(05:58):
just, I think she was just experimenting and I was just
experimenting and but like, it was at vacation Bible school
that that happened. And I remember that so vividly.
I could have, I was probably like 7, like just like a little
7 year old, just like a little, you know, Peck nothing really,
(06:20):
but just that little crush in that little like, I don't even
know why, but we were just so happy and we're just having such
a good time and we were just hugging each other and then it
happened. So yeah, but I don't even.
(06:44):
That's such a funny memory. No, it's a great memory.
But. Well, like a lot of I.
Lost my train of. Thought a lot of like physical
contact is kind of cut off by modern churches.
It's seen as being offensive to kiss anyone who's not, who's not
your wife or you're not. Always married.
(07:04):
Doesn't really match up with like the language that I see in
the Bible though. Absolutely not.
And I think that we even like my, I mean, my church, even for
small kids, they talked about like sex is a gift from God for
man and wife. And like, from a very young age,
(07:26):
it was purity culture. I had a purity ring given to me
by my father when I was 8 as a Christmas present.
I think that hearing that, hearing that, like kissing and
all of these things are just reserved for when you're older
(07:49):
and when it's special, I think that something in me rebelled
against that. I was always a little defiant in
that way, and so I just wanted to see.
Well, there's a lot of conflicting messaging that you
get to as well, like that kissing makes you dirty or it's
like, you know you're a used piece of gum after you've had
intimate contact with someone. Doesn't really accurately
(08:13):
describe human behavior at all. But.
Those purity culture things are,you know, a lot of what held a
lot of my generation back in understanding themselves and
understanding how they can relate to other people.
Where did you like say in art orin in nature?
Find your inspiration in early years.
(08:38):
I fell in love with Frida Kahlo at a very young age as a
disabled person or work spoke tome because even as a kid I was
in pain and nobody believed me. And so much of her work was
about the pain that she was facing.
(08:59):
And then I because I love to know more about anything that I
love. I researched her and, you know,
found some of her history and things and I think it really
resonated with me there. But it really wasn't until I was
(09:21):
like a high schooler that I likereally started finding like
queer media. Haley Kiyoko was like my first.
I heard girls, girls like girls.And I was just like, mind blown.
So yeah, I. But then I started learning
about all of the bugs and all ofthe animals and all of the
(09:43):
plants that like change sexes sothat they can reproduce.
And like all of that was so fascinating to me in biology
class, even when they were like,there's only two sexes.
But here we're going to teach you about all these plants, so.
Yeah. And and that's, you know,
obviously like nature can't really have any kind of like
fallen or sinful aspect to it. So all of the interesting
(10:07):
aspects of gender that happened in nature have to reflect, if
you still believe in, you know, creator, that that glory of the
Creator. But I think I was so scared of
it too, though, because I remember being in freshman
biology in high school and talking about evolution and
talking about these things and rebelling so strongly against my
(10:29):
biology teacher. I literally brought a Bible into
class. I was just so adamant that like,
it had to be this way because I didn't know that it didn't.
Yeah, yeah. Then.
I was raised in a Christian highschool and so I went through
(10:51):
high school learning flood geology as opposed to learning
what you probably learned in high school like geology, which
is like, you know that there were volcanoes and lots of
floods and lots of asteroids andlots of different impacts.
And it took millions and millions of years.
The worldview that I was in during high school was that it
was just a 6000 year old rock and learning how much of the
(11:15):
world beneath us is living was living Mass at one point just
floored me as an adult to learn.I thought so bad, but you know,
can you paint me a picture of a memory that you would that you
have that kind of helped you shape who you were?
Because moments like that, definitely like that was a
defining moment in my life because that was a moment that I
(11:36):
like. I stood up to the church and I
was like, I'm not going to be confined with what you tell me
anymore. Yeah, yeah.
I, I stopped attending church the second-half of my senior
year of high school. And it was kind of right at that
(12:02):
point where I was starting to understand that, like, I was
queer and I was truly developingfeelings for women that I had
never felt for since men before.And I was at a party randomly
(12:22):
and I, I, I kissed a guy and I kissed a girl at the party and
my small group leader found out about it somehow somebody else.
And very quickly my pastor like,sat me down and just was very
(12:44):
much like, you don't have to do this.
You can just choose to be straight.
And it was that moment that I just knew that I couldn't go
back. And I started to just unravel,
like, everything. And I spent six months
pretending to go to church like my dad thought I was going and
(13:06):
my friend would pick me up and take me somewhere else.
And I just spent those months literally smoking weed and just
trying to figure out who I was. Yeah.
OK, I know it's probably was just a lot trying to hold all
that in, you know, trying to hold in your identities, your
(13:27):
true self. I mean, what did it?
What did it feel like to you to have to hold so much in?
Because a lot of our listeners sometimes hold so much in in a
world that that doesn't see us. So explain to them what was it
like for you to hold so much inside of you and until you got
(13:47):
to be able to come to terms withit yourself.
I think that so much of it manifested is self hatred.
I struggled so much with what I ate.
I struggled with eating disorders and self harm and all
(14:09):
sorts of things and just horrible anxiety.
I didn't want to be seen by people because I didn't like the
way they perceived me and I didn't know why.
And I think having to hold that in for so long, I felt parts of
(14:32):
myself almost crushed under the weight just having to deal with
it day in, day out. Every single one of my friends
went to church with me. Yeah.
And my school group, like my group at school, was all church
(14:58):
people. They even did like worship on
Friday mornings at school and somuch self doubt, so much anxiety
and just wanting to be like other people and copying other
people because I thought it would make me feel better like,
(15:20):
oh, I'll just if I can dress like they do, that'll that's why
I don't like what I look like. I'm just not dressed as cool as
they are. I just don't have the right
hairstyle. I just don't have the right
look. And yeah, I mean, I, I struggled
with self harm and, and suicide,suicidal ideation and all of
(15:40):
that. And it's definitely a
heavyweight for a very, very long time.
That's a big shift in just how you perceive yourself and how
you understand. Like did it come piece by piece
or did you just kind of like find your definitions?
And it was just like, this is all it.
(16:00):
This is all here. I've I've got it.
Piece by piece, at first it was maybe I'm bisexual.
And then once my like gender identity started to be
questioned, I knew a person in high school who came out as
(16:25):
gender fluid and that like rocked me my core.
Like the I was like, that is, that's insane.
How is that possible? And like as those pieces started
to fall in, like I was not just a Butch bisexual person.
(16:49):
I was no longer just a lesbian. I was starting to become more
varied, I guess, and it was definitely just piece by piece
by piece as I grew, even coming to terms with being on the
(17:12):
asexuality spectrum and like, having gone from like,
everything in the world is defined by sex to like, oh,
maybe it's not. And my queer love isn't defined
by sex, it's just defined by love.
And those pieces just keep falling.
(17:33):
Truly. Yeah.
And you talk about all the different pieces and discovery
and all this stuff, but and in your bio, Caroline read a lot of
identities in your bio. So I'm curious, did how did you
begin to navigate like being trans, non binary, artistic,
(17:55):
Pagan and queer? Do they all come at once or was
it like a sandwich? You started with the bread and
you got the mustard and the Mayoand you just kind of built your
built yourself. That's a great analogy.
Yes, I, I think it did. I think it was like a sandwich
being built. Truly.
I, I think that as I started to unpack my sexuality, it started
(18:16):
to unpack my beliefs about religion.
And as those beliefs started to unpack, I started to learn more
about alternative religions. And that like really led me to
paganism. And then as I started learning
more about paganism, that led mefurther in my gender journey.
And I think everything just kindof dominoed, like it just added
(18:38):
to the next thing and built off because so many parts of my
identity I feel like influenced other parts.
My autism, my refusal to accept societal constructs and societal
norms just because somebody saysthey are supposed to be, feel
like that has so influenced my queerness and my ability to
(19:03):
stand firm and say I don't care what society says.
And so really it was just all building together.
OK. It's great.
Thank you for that. So there's a lot of different
points at which, you know, all of these pieces are falling
together here. Did you ever like go through
(19:24):
like a point where you'd hyper focused and just really did a
deep dive and figured out what all this meant about your life?
Yes, During COVID especially, I was laid off at the like pretty
early beginning of the like shutdown.
(19:47):
And so during the like, mass quarantine, I was just at home
alone most of the time because my spouse was still working.
And that that time was so transformative for me.
I spent so much time doing yoga and meditating.
(20:10):
And reading and indulging in substances.
And yeah, it was, it was definitely like a good few
months of just like really solidintrospection, all of the
identities that I held there. Are some authors who guided you
(20:34):
through that? Now off the top of my head and
like my brain just doesn't want to think of any authors, one of
my favorite authors randomly enough is Elliot Page.
His memoir was so incredible forme.
Reading that and like, reflecting on those experiences
and feeling the way that like, our stories are so unique but
(21:00):
so, so similar, and it just mademe wonder how many other trans
people's experiences were so, sosimilar like this.
When you first. Find your peer group like that
and you start reading about the stories and it just, it all
rhymes with your own experience.Even if it's not the same words
(21:21):
or the same circumstances, it just bounces right back and you
read yourself in it. Absolutely a non trans author
that also just like really guided me with the Monty Blair.
She's just this wonderful, wonderful woman.
I had the honor of seeing her speak at A at a dinner that I
(21:44):
attended when I was in college. And her work, her way of
highlighting women and differentqueer experiences because she's
a, a Muslim woman who is also queer and she's so open about it
and so just incredible. Yeah, I've, I've loved following
(22:09):
her and I've loved reading her works.
So. So I.
You know, I, I, I, I, I, when I first started transitioning, you
know, I didn't understand what my experience was because one of
the ways that I was like, I didn't know what it meant to be
trans. And so, like, it took me
(22:32):
reflecting on my life and my experiences to, to, to realize
that the experience that I had was the trans experience, the
disconnect with my body, the, the, the, the hatred for myself,
the yearning to want to be more in this insatiable desire to
(22:53):
like, want to talk to every trans person I saw ever pop up
on my feet or my tick back or Facebook.
I'm like, Oh my God, I have to meet these people for some
reason. Like, I don't know why, but
like, they're the most amazing people I've ever seen.
And you know, that's that's whatinspired the show was like not
understanding, you know, who I was in the sense and, and
realizing that I could no longerlive my life denying who I was.
(23:18):
And the show is in a way of likenot apologizing anymore for that
and just being seen and, and hearing these stories.
And it's been a really beautifulexperience.
And you know, was there a momentfor you that you realized that
you could no longer live with like with with that, like, you
(23:38):
know, that you could exist fully?
Was there a moment that you said, this is it, I'm not
apologizing anymore for my life.This is who I am?
What was the? Was there a moment?
Yes. I showed up to university my
freshman year. My parents had kicked me out
right before I graduated from high school, and so I spent that
(24:01):
summer couch hopping and just doing all sorts of stuff and
getting to college. My university had just built an
LGBT center and it was the firstyear it was open and Westboro
(24:26):
Baptist Church came to protest it and they were outside
protesting. And so in response, my like my
university organized a anti protest and we just had a dance
party outside in the common area, like in the lawn.
And it was just this huge, huge moment where so many people like
(24:51):
not just people from the LGBTQ center and people in the
community, but just like tons ofother people, tons of other
students were all out there together.
And I had just met one of my best friends to this day.
And they honestly, having them in my life has shaped so much of
(25:13):
my my trans identity too, because they're non binary and
but they're a gender. And so like their experience of
gender is so different from mine.
And so we really learned from each other in that.
But we were out there dancing and we were just both so happy.
And we're like, you know what? Screw this church.
We're just going to kiss in front of them.
(25:34):
And like, it was so platonic. It was so lovely and just so
free and that I just knew like Iwas never going to be able to go
back from that. I.
Love that. So you're in.
So now you're in university, what are you going to school
for? I actually graduated.
(25:55):
I like what? That's what I meant.
Like what? Did.
Oh yeah. Sorry, I started off as a social
work major, but I changed my degree a few times and I ended
up getting a degree just in general studies and I
concentrated on social and behavioral sciences.
So I studied a lot of psychology, human sexuality,
(26:19):
sociology, just all the different things that make
humans tick is really what I wasinterested in.
So. So how did that intersect?
How did that intersect then withyou becoming an EMT?
So I started working at, I worked at a, a camp, like a
(26:40):
summer camp and they needed a health officer to work in the
Infirmary. And I said OK, because I had
already enjoyed like first aid training and whatnot.
So I went and did that for the summer and I just fell in love
with it. So I came back to college and
(27:02):
took an EMT class and when I graduated I just started working
as an EMT. That's great.
Yeah. So tell us how you got connected
and brought and what brought youinto the nonprofit and community
work that Indy Pride does. Yeah, so I started volunteering
for them back when I was in college and just volunteering
(27:26):
for their different events and things to help put on,
especially the festival, becausethey always needed so many
volunteers. And I just, I fell in love with
the energy or the atmosphere. I fell in love with the look on
people's faces when they like walked in and they saw all of
(27:48):
the other crew people and you could just see the joy and the
safety and the contentment like just light up on their face.
And I so I started volunteering a lot and then I actually was
really good friends with one of the people that was working for,
(28:12):
for Indy Pride. And he told me that they had an
opening and I applied and just got lucky enough.
But it's such a small team. There's only three full time
staff members and I'm part time and there's one other part
timer. And so it's just us and a bunch
of volunteers. But honestly, it's so it, it's
(28:36):
so great. Yeah, make us so lucky.
I know I can I can see and feel your passion for for Andy pride
and and what does that look likein your in your life?
Both It's something you give andsomething you deserve.
Working and feeling passion and and and feeling passionate about
(28:59):
something because it sounds likeyou an EMT.
You talk about how seeing peopleyou basically what does care
look like in your life? What does care?
What does caring for others looklike?
I don't want anyone to walk awayfrom an event thinking that they
were unnoticed or unseen. I remember so many spaces
(29:25):
growing up where I felt so invisible and so lonely.
And I think everybody is just looking for somebody to see
them, to really see them, to really acknowledge them, really
ask how they're doing and really, truly mean it.
And that's, that's what I try todo.
(29:48):
I, I think that caring for people just starts it.
Acknowledging their personhood and meeting them exactly where
they're at, whether it's a good day, a bad day or whatever, and
making sure that everybody comesto our events and leaves feeling
(30:10):
loved. When you're serving a community
and drawing it, and at the same time in multiple facets here, do
you feel like people appreciate you for who you are and what you
bring as you are, without havingany reservations?
Do you feel that's changed from where you'd started?
I definitely do feel like it's changed.
(30:31):
I like there's so many moments where I I know how safe I am in
my surroundings. Like I know that even if my job
is asking manual labor of me, ifit's a really bad pain day or
whatever, I know that that's notgoing to be an ask.
I know that they'll adjust and accommodate for me.
(30:52):
And it's not even a second thought.
And nobody, you know, blinks when I whip out my cane and
whatever else. Just so many moments of other
parts of my identity that are are cared for as well.
And I I don't think I've ever worked in a place like that.
(31:17):
So that's, and that was a, a great answer to that question we
ask you. But you know, we're heading into
pride season, it's June, it's going to be Pride month.
People are getting excited afterespecially we thought under this
current administration Pride wasnot going to happen.
So just tell us, what does your work at Indy Pride currently
(31:38):
look like? And tell us, what are you most
proud of? So my work at Indy Pride is a
little varied. I do a lot of the office
administration board, which is things that you need.
You need to keep an organizationrunning a lot of the answering
emails and responding to phone calls, organizing the countless
(31:59):
boxes of supplies coming in for all of our events.
But I also do a lot of the otherlike random programming that we
do, not random programming, but other smaller programs that we
do. We try to do a monthly family
friendly program, whether it's art like arts and crafts or game
(32:21):
night or trivia night. We've been doing a lot of those
and so a lot of my work involvesrunning those and I've been
putting together a lot of different new partnerships to
plan more Trans Pacific events. Our community has really been
asking for more and I think especially during this time,
(32:44):
it's important to show up as much as we can and create that
space for for each other. So I have been starting some new
partnerships and we created a new a new event called the
Transmixer which was so fun. It was such a huge success.
We had like 7075 people come outto the very first one, which is
(33:09):
a pretty good turn out for us. We have.
A prom in Saint Louis. We did our very first prom this
year and it was a huge, huge, successful event.
It was incredible and that was such a such a fun experience to
get to do an adult prom. People showed up in everything
(33:30):
from full ball gowns to the theme was Winter Wonderland, but
it was like Alice in Wonderland.So people came in like Mad
Hatter, like really sexy outfits, just everything that
you could imagine. And I, I think that's so
(33:51):
reminiscent of the queer community.
There's so, so much variety and so many ways to express
yourself. And I love that people took the
the prom as that because my promexperience in high school, we
were told that if you were a girl, you had to wear a dress.
And if you were a boy, you had to wear pants.
And there was no in between. And so getting the freedom to
(34:12):
just wear anything that you wanted was so cool.
But yeah, so a lot of the work that I've been doing is just
trying to create new programs like that, just new spaces for
people to really exist and enjoythemselves.
So we're doing the Midwest TransPride Fest next weekend, and
(34:40):
that has been a huge, huge project to work on.
But it's been so fun and it's been just such an honor that
they included us because it's two other community
organizations that put this event on last year and they
reached out and included Indy Pride this year, which was just
(35:00):
such a such a huge honor for us.So yeah.
How long you've been with Indy Pride?
I started working for Indy Prideback in September of last year,
so about nine months, 8 months. All right, Yeah.
So it sounds like you're gettingdoing some great programming and
getting some great trans programming going and, and
(35:23):
making sure that trans visibility is always at the
forefront. So let me what is your vision
for truly inclusive career spaces?
Face it that on a disability, I know I'm probably saying this,
I'm always talking about we haveto remember our disabled, our
neurodivergent communities and racial identities and gender
(35:44):
expansiveness and spiritual differences.
I mean, we have all these different tribes and our and our
community. So how do you vision being
inclusive of all those spaces? I think it is a multifaceted
approach because there's so many, so many things that need
(36:08):
to be done. A really big push that we've
been trying for is to have an accessibility consultant that we
can really bring in as a paid expert on the subject.
(36:28):
But until then, a lot of the work that I've been doing has
been creating accessibility features like accessibility maps
for all of our events that show where there are quiet spaces.
And we always try to incorporatethat kind of thing into our
events and different, just different legends of like the
(36:49):
space will have bright lights or, you know, there will be a
lot more people here. There's areas to sit here and
all of those. And I think that creating the
space for everybody means starting with the most
(37:10):
vulnerable people. And so having interpreters at
all of our events, having every feature that we we reasonably
can to try to make our events more accessible.
And truly, my vision for Pride is to have an accessibility FAQ
(37:36):
for every single thing we do where people know that anything
that they need to know about, it'll be there for them.
Having a specific and more focused push for including
vendors from different groups and different organizations,
(37:58):
different communities, so that we can continue honoring those
intersections. And yeah.
Now, is Indy Pride an indoor or outdoor festival?
It's outdoors, so. I got a question for you.
And this is kind of leading to intersection.
So how do you at an outdoor festival have a quiet space for
(38:19):
those who are neuro divergent? And I'll probably say this
wrong. Excuse me, sound sensitive.
I know there's a name for a sound sensitive, but that's the
only thing I can think of right now.
Yeah. So what we did last year, which
was kind of our first year really being able to do this was
we created a space called Melo Chella and it was this huge tent
(38:46):
like tented area that was far away from the like mainstage.
And in this tented area, there was comfortable seats, there was
water, there was all sorts of fidget toys and earplugs.
There was even a sectioned off area of this tent that was fully
(39:09):
closed in with curtains. So it was dark.
And we had a DJ running a silentdisco so people could wear noise
cancelling headphones and play anything they wanted and adjust
the volume to whatever level they wanted and just be in their
own own space at the festival and away from everybody else.
(39:29):
And so that's, that's what we'vebeen trying to do.
And that's what we're going to do again this year and have
those spaces of just a moment ofpeace and quiet.
And yeah, I love. That that sounds great.
Have your considerations for like, you know, resources of
providing that space change withthe current administrations?
(39:51):
Are you concerned like about like the fascistic tactics
they're using? Are, you know, concerned about
violence or political backlash in this situation?
Yeah, we, we are always worried about safety.
We always have protesters that stationed themselves up outside
(40:15):
our events. This year since we have two big
events. It's not just the Indy Pride
Festival. This year we have Word of Mouth
concert series and the celebration on the circle and
that's in honor of our 30 year anniversary.
We're really going back to our roots.
There's a historic marker on theMonument Circle that shows where
(40:40):
the first Outdoor Pride was heldin 1995.
And so that's where we're holding this celebration on the
circle, this free celebration. But we're still doing everything
we can to ensure safety. We've got private security and
we've got barricades and we around the actual Word of Mouth
(41:01):
concert series. We've got that whole lot or that
whole lot is fenced in and everything we do Stop the Blade,
Stop the Bleed trainings for allof our volunteers, all of our
board, all of our staff. That's actually been one of my
programs, one of my projects. I, as an EMT, got myself Stop
(41:24):
the Bleed Trainer certified and I'm now leading Stop the Bleed
trainings for our organization. I've got like 6 of them
scheduled and I'm hoping to expand that into a program
called Safety Query where peoplecan ask questions about
maintaining their safety, maintaining their emotional
(41:45):
safety, how to deal with an emergency while also dealing
with crisis mindset and all of the other things and trying to
do those trainings to expand on our safety efforts.
So yeah. Just about like emotionally, you
know, what's been the hardest part of like doing the
(42:07):
visibility and care work when the political climate's been
like it has, has it been conflicts in that?
Yes, as a public facing person, I people find my personal
Facebook and my personal Instagram and they have an issue
(42:28):
with the organization. They have an issue with me as
well. But I, I tried really hard to
take it with a grain of salt. I talked to my therapist a lot,
a lot about it. And, you know, I really, really
just constantly remind myself that at the end of the day, the
(42:50):
work we're doing is always in service of our community.
And while it can always be better, that doesn't mean what
we're doing isn't good. So and I just kind of become a
mantra for myself. And I think that's really helped
because it can be really, reallyhard, but.
(43:12):
OK, so, you know, right now we're all going through, you
know, we feel like the world is closing in on us because we all,
we have all this hateful rhetoric, we have a hostile
climate. We got legislating being, you
know, Lawsley, and that's just against us so much.
So my question is, and I always ask everybody this, how do you
(43:34):
stay rooted in joy and ritual and resistance when it feels
like all hope is lost? I think that especially when
they try to push us into a smaller box, I always try to
just make it bigger. I try to create more spaces.
(43:56):
I try to find more spaces where I belong and my community
belongs. And I love that you stay.
Like how do you find joy and keep rooted in joy?
Because our motto is Indy Pride,Paul's Queer Joy home.
(44:19):
And joy truly is the greatest act of resistance sometimes.
Just saying, in spite of all of this, I am still here.
I'm still fighting, and I'm still loving my life.
Like I am creating new things even when you're telling me not
to do any of the things that I'malready doing.
(44:39):
And I am finding new people and more connections and just making
my world bigger even when they want it to be smaller.
So yes, because I want a T-shirtthat says my existence is
resistance. Yes, yes.
And I want a big shirt that saystrans joy.
(45:00):
Nothing you can do can take awaymy trans joy.
Because I don't know if you talkabout our joy enough as being
trans people. Absolutely.
One of our shirts for Pride lastyear was Joy is Justice and it
just said that over and over again in the in blinds that were
the color of the trans flag and it was just that was so good.
(45:23):
I love wearing that shirt I wearall the time.
I should have worn it today. But got any of those leftover?
I'll send you some. Yeah, I'll.
Send you one. Don't worry about that.
I'll send you one, OK. Yes, I would love that because I
I love wearing stuff like that. I wear.
I want one. Yeah, look at us where I want
one. OK.
(45:43):
Yes, Roy. I expect that you will drop the
contacts in the chat for me or in the e-mail for me.
Yes, yes. Beautiful.
I love wearing other Prides shirts because we need to trans
people and pride people. We need to unify and stand in
solidarity and work together. So what have you learned about
(46:05):
the difference between performative inclusion and lived
liberation? Yeah, performative inclusion is
actually like when I see it, performative inclusion is looks
(46:27):
like people staying that the space for whatever identity, but
then they've not actually created any specific
accommodations or like had actual thoughts for it.
Like when a place says that they're inaccessible space and
(46:49):
then they would step to get to the front door.
And I feel like that's so such performative inclusion and with
within the queer community, I feel like the the, the
difference between actual liberation and that just
(47:12):
performing inclusion is just this true intent to understand
where the need comes from and truly addressing the need at at
its root. Instead of just slacking a pride
(47:34):
flag on there or saying you are welcome here or putting even
just your pronouns on a on a sticker, but you're still not
using people proper pronouns. Like it's that actual
intentional root care. Mess I I agree with that.
(47:58):
I think I like to see like it's to me it seems like at least
it's the corporate pride stuff that's very performatively
inclusive. And then, like, as soon as June
is over, they whitewash their flags into flags of political or
surrender instead. Yeah.
What will let us look like, though, in your care when you're
(48:22):
giving them to prioritize the most vulnerable people in your
leadership role? Like not just during Pride
Month, but every day to look outfor the people who need it the
most. Really.
Honestly, I recently had to callout no call in a board member
(48:47):
who suggested as a way to save money that we cut interpreters
from events that, quote UN quote, didn't need them.
Every event needs an interpreter.
If we take away access for our most vulnerable people, we don't
deserve to have a space for anybody or to claim that space.
(49:11):
Truly, I should say, put our name on it and I spoke up very,
very quickly. I kind of I butted into a
meeting that I wasn't even a part of.
Oops. I that's important and I again,
I don't have a lot of social boundaries.
Thank you autism. So I'm going to speak up to
(49:34):
things like that and I try to keep, keep doing that, yeah.
The superpower makes you look out for justice.
Oh no. I know what.
I know. So I'm ask you a big dream
question. What is your dream for what Indy
pride and pride is shelf? What is your dream for Indy?
(49:57):
Pride and pride itself. My dream is a three accessible
like truly accessible seating, free food, free water, free good
bathrooms, not disgusting 1 Porter potty to share between
700 people. True full access for everybody
(50:22):
that wants it and needs it, without corporate sponsors, with
local organizations, with the local community all coming
together to celebrate. It's a big dream, but I think
it's possible. OK, Yeah.
Well, where can our listeners find a way to participate in
(50:46):
your dream for Pride here to follow what you're doing for
Indy Pride. Our website isindypride.org.
We are always, always asking formore volunteers and asking for
more connections. Truly, you work for an
organization that you think has a cool service that would
(51:06):
benefit the community. I want to hear it.
You can like e-mail me the info@indypride.org. e-mail is my
Direct Line and truly everythingthat we do.
Would it be possible without thepeople who volunteer their time
(51:27):
and their ideas? Not just their time, but their
ideas and their thoughts and their opinions?
Because we need that. We need people in the room
making these decisions with us, voicing the things that matter
to them. So yeah, can volunteer with us.
(51:48):
Now if if someone came to you and said I carry too many
identities to ever belong, what would you say to that person?
OK, there's no such thing, no such thing.
As we saw in my little bio. I identify with so many
different things and sometimes Ido find some of my identities
(52:13):
limiting. There's there's no denying that
there are times when I am limited in the things that I can
do, the places that I can go, but I also know that in the
right space, all of my other identities will be cared for in
the same way. And so finding the right people.
(52:40):
And truly, I feel like within the queer community, there is so
much more acceptance for differences, no matter what
those differences are. And so I think that there's no
such thing as too many identities.
The more the merrier you. Prefer complex people.
We love this. Yes, that's the beauty of our
community. Is that why we have identities
(53:03):
and intersectionalities and and things that just make us
beautiful? Yes, absolutely.
I want to hear that you are non binary and ace and Polly and
queer and trans, all these things like I want.
I want to know all the facets. Yes, people, so.
And I make sure those vendors that have the flags have all the
(53:24):
right flags, all of them, not all the right flags, all the
flags. All the flags.
All the flags. But I think there are times too
when it is especially when you know there are 50 flags out
there and you can only put a certain number.
Today I saw a vendor who had thetrans flag, the progress flag,
(53:46):
and the asexual flag on their table.
And those were three communitiesthat I felt the progress flag
with the the intersex symbol on it as well.
And those were just three communities that I felt like,
especially now are under so muchattack that to highlight those
(54:08):
and like bring those to the center, it was really cool to
see in that way. So I kind of appreciated that as
well. I always make sure the vendors
have an intersex flag. Since I'm intersex, you got I
have that flag. Absolutely.
What does queer joy? What does queer joy look like
(54:30):
for you, right now? For you?
And how do you protect your queer joy?
Expressing myself however I want, even if it is more
femininely, because I think as atrans masculine person, people
get very put off when I want to express femininity, when I want
to wear a skirt or paint my nails.
(54:54):
And so I think expressing that and wearing that and loving
myself in it and like relishing in it, even if it's only for me
because sometimes I'll paint my nails and I won't really wear it
out, but it's for me. And I think giving myself that
time to do that, I've really been getting back into my yoga
(55:18):
routine. And that has been just such a
form of self love for me becauseevery time I do it, I just feel,
I feel so great afterwards. And I know that I've taken time
that I might have designated I was too busy.
How am I too busy to care for myself?
That's ridiculous. So like knowing that I have
(55:40):
stopped that mindset of I'm too busy for care and saying like
there's I'm never too busy for care.
Like care is has to be first sometimes.
And just yeah, that's don't takecare.
I feel that, I feel that becauselike, you know, the more that I,
I come to understand myself, themore that like I embrace the
(56:01):
masculine part because like I feel that I just, I radiate
femininity. So I don't feel like I have to
try, you know, whereas and, and now I don't have to feel like, I
used to feel like I had to try to be a man, but now I just, I
don't feel. But then I would restrict it.
I would resist it. Now I'm just embraced it because
like, it doesn't take away from who I am on the inside.
(56:23):
Exactly. Yeah, I, I got top surgery.
Oh my God, almost three years ago now.
That's so incredible. And after that, there was just
this such great moment of, oh, wow, I can wear whatever I want
(56:45):
and I still feel and look like aman and I still am so
comfortable with myself. Like there was just no second
thinking of like forming femininity.
It was just I'm a guy that enjoys feminine things like
other guys do. Like why not so but.
(57:06):
What's something that fills you with pride?
Not. Joy.
And we talk about pride, and everybody knows that joy and
pride are two different are two different things.
So what fills you with pride? When people come up to me at an
event and tell me that they weren't sure if they were going
(57:26):
to come, but they were so glad that they did.
And that sense of like I did, that I made this event happen.
I was part of this team. It fills me with such pride.
Like I, I'm, I'm so proud of thework that I do doing the Stop
(57:48):
the Bleed training. Standing up there for that first
training was such a cool moment of my passions and my academic
interests and all of these things coming together.
And to be in that space where like I was the teacher was so,
(58:12):
so cool. And that definitely, that
definitely filled me with pride.And like, I think specifically
because I was a trans teacher, like people often think of a
paramedic or an EMT and they think of this like, big burly
man or whatever. And like, I walk in looking like
(58:36):
I do. I'm pretty scrawny.
I call myself a twink. Yeah, I'm a short king.
And knowing that, like, I was giving them knowledge
specifically for our community and specifically from a queer
person that like, maybe they've never seen a queer person in
(58:57):
this way before and like that. That's freaking cool.
Yeah. And I'm so proud of myself and
I'm so proud of my identity and that being able to show that
like. People.
Like people are so many other things.
They save lives every day. They're important.
(59:18):
Yeah. You know, I, I just want to take
this moment and just thank everyone for being here.
You know, Athena, thank you for giving me your time today and
being here. Yes, thank you for thank you for
being here too. Yes, Jordan, I really enjoyed
(59:41):
having you here today. Thank you for being with me
today. Thank you for asking me.
I always love these podcasts arebeing on with you.
And thank you for thank you and Athena for collaborating at the
beginning and getting this together to tell our trans
stories because in today's worldand climate, that is very
important. And I want to tip my wig to you
to say thank you so much for that.
(01:00:03):
Well, you know, I want to thank our audience for being here week
after week and tuning in and listening and giving us your
time and your attention and, andsupporting this show.
It, it, it really does mean a lot.
And if you'd like to be on and Share your story, please e-mail
us at transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
That's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
(01:00:24):
And as we begin to wrap up today, Athena, you have any
final questions that you'd like to ask before we go?
Yeah, Hudson, if you could just shine your light back on
yourself when you were younger, if you were lost in the darkness
(01:00:44):
back when you were a kid and andyou had to give yourself advice
to get through the toughest time, what would be the truth
you'd tell yourself? I would tell myself that there
are people out there who are going to love me exactly as I
am, without even knowing all of the parts of me, and even when
they do find out all of them, they'll still love me in the
(01:01:07):
exact same way. Yes.
Being here, do you have any final questions that you'd like
to? Yes, I have.
A question do I have? I really don't have.
Yes, you do. OK, I got one.
I got one. I got one.
It popped up in my head just now.
If your story could light a torch for someone lost in the
(01:01:28):
dark, what truth would it carry?Do you want me to you know?
I was just thinking, OK, all right, pain isn't the thing that
defines us. It might be the thing that helps
us grow and shape us. But joy is really the thing that
(01:01:51):
does define us. Not the moments of dysphoria,
the moments of euphoria. And finding those moments are
what's going to lead you to yourtruest self.
That was beautiful. I'm I always loved, you know,
(01:02:13):
coming together and having this podcast and just thank everyone
for being here and you know, it's pride month and you know,
it's it's a wonderful time. It's the most one.
Sorry. Starts in eight hours.
Great hours of ticking. Tick, tick.
Tick, tick. That would have been yesterday.
(01:02:34):
That would have been previously since we're we're already none.
Oh, we're in Pride month. That's right.
Oh, we're in Pride Month. Scratch.
He's participating in the fiction that the show is I.
Scrolled. Oh my God, I spoiled the reality
of it all. This collapsing reality is
collapsing. Damn.
Yes, yes, it is. It is, yes, you know.
(01:02:58):
We look good doing editing. Oh yes, can't wait to we'll put
this up on YouTube. Put this wonderful video up.
We need, you know what we need? We need a bloopers reel.
That would be great, but. You know, we're here and and so
many, you know, we're so we were, we were, we were
concerned. And you know, it's, it's it, it
(01:03:20):
feels good to to be here this far into it so far and still be
able to smile and and go out andcelebrate and take pride in in
our history and our fight for our rights.
And that's and thank you so muchfor.
Being in the 70s and 80s, we're here, we're queer.
Get used to it. That's right, Hudson, thank you
(01:03:43):
for being here. And thank you so much.
Absolutely. And as we begin to wrap up and
depart this this week and into Pride month of message, would
you like to leave with us and, and more importantly, as you
share with us a message, can youshare a moment for us that that
makes you smile and, and gives you just this euphoric sense of
(01:04:07):
joy and pride? I hope that the start of your
Pride month is absolutely wonderful and that you find
spaces to exist, even if it's just celebrating by yourself,
spaces where You Can Dance around and love yourself.
(01:04:28):
And I hope that you come and join us at Indy Pride for Indy
Pride Weekend on June 14th and 15th.
Come volunteer with us, come hang out, come enjoy the
festivities and the celebration.Yeah, this morning there was a
(01:04:49):
drag performance at our pet Pride festival, and there was a
little kid who ran up and just started dancing with the drag
queen, and they spent the entirerest of the song dancing
together. And it was so beautiful to see
(01:05:15):
this kid with no reservations, No Fear, no doubts, just
embracing and loving and enjoying this beautiful art
form. And that was so, so wonderful.
(01:05:35):
So yeah, that was a, that was a great moment of, of joy to to
think about. Music.
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline, and today I have
the pleasure of being here with Athena.
Oh my God. Hi, Athena.
Hey, it's good to be back. Well, it's so good to have you
and Jordan. Jordan Braxton.
Hello. Hello, how are you doing?
I'm so good. It's so good to have you back.
(00:21):
Thank you for being here. Thank you for asking me back.
Yes, And joining us today as we begin Pride Month, it's Hudson
Gaunt. Hello and welcome.
Hello, thank you for having me. Yes, so good to have you.
So before we get started a little bit about Hudson.
Hudson Gaunt is a multi faceted soul whose life and work
(00:42):
embodies resilience authenticityand radical care.
A queer, non binary, autistic, Hispanic, Pagan, trans, cat, dad
and EMT, Hudson hold space at the vibrant intersections of
identity, disability, and community healing.
Raised in a conservative town bya pastor, Hudson early life was
marked by suppression, the truthof expression, of joy.
(01:05):
But after finding affirmation and belonging within the
Indianapolis queer community, Hudson committed himself to
creating safe, affirming spaces for others.
As the office manager for Indy Pride, he now works to ensure
the organization reflects the full spectrum of identities it
serves. Hudson brings lived experience,
spiritual depth, and a creative lens to everything he touches,
(01:26):
building community not just withsystems, but with soul.
Hudson, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for having me. That's so nice so.
Beautiful. Oh, hey, hey, everybody, and
(01:46):
welcome back to the Trans Narrative Podcast.
We are here today with our fabulous, wonderful guest,
Hudson Gaunt. Hi.
Hi, Hudson. How are you doing?
I'm doing well. How are you doing today?
No, I'm all right. Are you ready for the Pride
season? I am our pride season is already
kicked off full swing. We had an event earlier this
morning that I was out there doing celebrating pet pride.
(02:09):
So we're really, we're really ready all.
Right. We thank you for taking the
opportunity out of your businessschedule.
Just sit down and talk to us. Thank you for having me.
I think I'm just going to kick off the first question that we
already asking everybody is whatwas it like growing up in a
conservative environment as someone who held so many unseen
and unspoken identities? That's a great question.
(02:34):
For a lot of my life I didn't even really know what being gay
or trans or queer was. It wasn't until I was I think 9
that I first heard reference to gay people and it was my uncle
making the joke God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
(02:55):
And then the next time I really heard about queer people, trans
people specifically, was when Caitlyn Jenner came out.
And my family was very negative,had a lot of bad things to say.
And so growing up like that, I was very anxious.
I was very shy, and I was just akid that always wanted to get
(03:21):
out there and meet people but didn't really know why.
It didn't seem to fit in SO. You know, being a preacher's kid
has a lot of pressure because you're constantly in the public
eye and constantly under your parents supervalence.
It's definitely a lot to try andkeep up with and some families
are more demanding than others, of course, but how did that
(03:44):
shape? Like, how did that build your
world whenever you were young, and how has that changed since?
Yeah, yeah. Growing up, I was in church at
least three days a week. I would go on, you know, the
youth trips with my dad because my dad was a youth pastor for a
long time. And so I was surrounded by all
(04:05):
of these older teens, all of these older kids really still,
because they're, they were stillkids, but they were the people
that I looked up to most becauseas a child, you don't really
look up to adults. You look up to the teenagers and
that seeing the stifling of them.
(04:27):
Like I still remember thinking like certain things were weird,
certain things seemed strange with people and not
understanding what it was and like coming to realize later in
life like that person was queer.I grew up, even after my dad
stopped being a pastor, I continued going to church in
(04:52):
that same way and really, reallyclinging to religion because I
thought that if I was just a good enough Christian and I just
did everything and I put in my entire soul into that, then I I
wouldn't have space to do anything else or be anything
else. So I really leaned into it like
(05:14):
dresses and church wear and, youknow, all the things.
So yeah. I like I like a good church
wear. Honestly, I can rock a sun
dress. OK, I love that.
So what were some of your early signs or moments of when your
true self started to emerge? Going to church and going to
(05:36):
Vacation Bible school and all those things we good Christians
do. I remember being at vacation
Bible school and being with one of my friends and she and I
snuck off and we kissed behind the like curtains and we're
(05:58):
just, I think she was just experimenting and I was just
experimenting and but like, it was at vacation Bible school
that that happened. And I remember that so vividly.
I could have, I was probably like 7, like just like a little
7 year old, just like a little, you know, Peck nothing really,
(06:20):
but just that little crush in that little like, I don't even
know why, but we were just so happy and we're just having such
a good time and we were just hugging each other and then it
happened. So yeah, but I don't even.
(06:44):
That's such a funny memory. No, it's a great memory.
But. Well, like a lot of I.
Lost my train of. Thought a lot of like physical
contact is kind of cut off by modern churches.
It's seen as being offensive to kiss anyone who's not, who's not
your wife or you're not. Always married.
(07:04):
Doesn't really match up with like the language that I see in
the Bible though. Absolutely not.
And I think that we even like my, I mean, my church, even for
small kids, they talked about like sex is a gift from God for
man and wife. And like, from a very young age,
(07:26):
it was purity culture. I had a purity ring given to me
by my father when I was 8 as a Christmas present.
I think that hearing that, hearing that, like kissing and
all of these things are just reserved for when you're older
(07:49):
and when it's special, I think that something in me rebelled
against that. I was always a little defiant in
that way, and so I just wanted to see.
Well, there's a lot of conflicting messaging that you
get to as well, like that kissing makes you dirty or it's
like, you know you're a used piece of gum after you've had
intimate contact with someone. Doesn't really accurately
(08:13):
describe human behavior at all. But.
Those purity culture things are,you know, a lot of what held a
lot of my generation back in understanding themselves and
understanding how they can relate to other people.
Where did you like say in art orin in nature?
Find your inspiration in early years.
(08:38):
I fell in love with Frida Kahlo at a very young age as a
disabled person or work spoke tome because even as a kid I was
in pain and nobody believed me. And so much of her work was
about the pain that she was facing.
(08:59):
And then I because I love to know more about anything that I
love. I researched her and, you know,
found some of her history and things and I think it really
resonated with me there. But it really wasn't until I was
(09:21):
like a high schooler that I likereally started finding like
queer media. Haley Kiyoko was like my first.
I heard girls, girls like girls.And I was just like, mind blown.
So yeah, I. But then I started learning
about all of the bugs and all ofthe animals and all of the
(09:43):
plants that like change sexes sothat they can reproduce.
And like all of that was so fascinating to me in biology
class, even when they were like,there's only two sexes.
But here we're going to teach you about all these plants, so.
Yeah. And and that's, you know,
obviously like nature can't really have any kind of like
fallen or sinful aspect to it. So all of the interesting
(10:07):
aspects of gender that happened in nature have to reflect, if
you still believe in, you know, creator, that that glory of the
Creator. But I think I was so scared of
it too, though, because I remember being in freshman
biology in high school and talking about evolution and
talking about these things and rebelling so strongly against my
(10:29):
biology teacher. I literally brought a Bible into
class. I was just so adamant that like,
it had to be this way because I didn't know that it didn't.
Yeah, yeah. Then.
I was raised in a Christian highschool and so I went through
(10:51):
high school learning flood geology as opposed to learning
what you probably learned in high school like geology, which
is like, you know that there were volcanoes and lots of
floods and lots of asteroids andlots of different impacts.
And it took millions and millions of years.
The worldview that I was in during high school was that it
was just a 6000 year old rock and learning how much of the
(11:15):
world beneath us is living was living Mass at one point just
floored me as an adult to learn.I thought so bad, but you know,
can you paint me a picture of a memory that you would that you
have that kind of helped you shape who you were?
Because moments like that, definitely like that was a
defining moment in my life because that was a moment that I
(11:36):
like. I stood up to the church and I
was like, I'm not going to be confined with what you tell me
anymore. Yeah, yeah.
I, I stopped attending church the second-half of my senior
year of high school. And it was kind of right at that
(12:02):
point where I was starting to understand that, like, I was
queer and I was truly developingfeelings for women that I had
never felt for since men before.And I was at a party randomly
(12:22):
and I, I, I kissed a guy and I kissed a girl at the party and
my small group leader found out about it somehow somebody else.
And very quickly my pastor like,sat me down and just was very
(12:44):
much like, you don't have to do this.
You can just choose to be straight.
And it was that moment that I just knew that I couldn't go
back. And I started to just unravel,
like, everything. And I spent six months
pretending to go to church like my dad thought I was going and
(13:06):
my friend would pick me up and take me somewhere else.
And I just spent those months literally smoking weed and just
trying to figure out who I was. Yeah.
OK, I know it's probably was just a lot trying to hold all
that in, you know, trying to hold in your identities, your
(13:27):
true self. I mean, what did it?
What did it feel like to you to have to hold so much in?
Because a lot of our listeners sometimes hold so much in in a
world that that doesn't see us. So explain to them what was it
like for you to hold so much inside of you and until you got
(13:47):
to be able to come to terms withit yourself.
I think that so much of it manifested is self hatred.
I struggled so much with what I ate.
I struggled with eating disorders and self harm and all
(14:09):
sorts of things and just horrible anxiety.
I didn't want to be seen by people because I didn't like the
way they perceived me and I didn't know why.
And I think having to hold that in for so long, I felt parts of
(14:32):
myself almost crushed under the weight just having to deal with
it day in, day out. Every single one of my friends
went to church with me. Yeah.
And my school group, like my group at school, was all church
(14:58):
people. They even did like worship on
Friday mornings at school and somuch self doubt, so much anxiety
and just wanting to be like other people and copying other
people because I thought it would make me feel better like,
(15:20):
oh, I'll just if I can dress like they do, that'll that's why
I don't like what I look like. I'm just not dressed as cool as
they are. I just don't have the right
hairstyle. I just don't have the right
look. And yeah, I mean, I, I struggled
with self harm and, and suicide,suicidal ideation and all of
(15:40):
that. And it's definitely a
heavyweight for a very, very long time.
That's a big shift in just how you perceive yourself and how
you understand. Like did it come piece by piece
or did you just kind of like find your definitions?
And it was just like, this is all it.
(16:00):
This is all here. I've I've got it.
Piece by piece, at first it was maybe I'm bisexual.
And then once my like gender identity started to be
questioned, I knew a person in high school who came out as
(16:25):
gender fluid and that like rocked me my core.
Like the I was like, that is, that's insane.
How is that possible? And like as those pieces started
to fall in, like I was not just a Butch bisexual person.
(16:49):
I was no longer just a lesbian. I was starting to become more
varied, I guess, and it was definitely just piece by piece
by piece as I grew, even coming to terms with being on the
(17:12):
asexuality spectrum and like, having gone from like,
everything in the world is defined by sex to like, oh,
maybe it's not. And my queer love isn't defined
by sex, it's just defined by love.
And those pieces just keep falling.
(17:33):
Truly. Yeah.
And you talk about all the different pieces and discovery
and all this stuff, but and in your bio, Caroline read a lot of
identities in your bio. So I'm curious, did how did you
begin to navigate like being trans, non binary, artistic,
(17:55):
Pagan and queer? Do they all come at once or was
it like a sandwich? You started with the bread and
you got the mustard and the Mayoand you just kind of built your
built yourself. That's a great analogy.
Yes, I, I think it did. I think it was like a sandwich
being built. Truly.
I, I think that as I started to unpack my sexuality, it started
(18:16):
to unpack my beliefs about religion.
And as those beliefs started to unpack, I started to learn more
about alternative religions. And that like really led me to
paganism. And then as I started learning
more about paganism, that led mefurther in my gender journey.
And I think everything just kindof dominoed, like it just added
(18:38):
to the next thing and built off because so many parts of my
identity I feel like influenced other parts.
My autism, my refusal to accept societal constructs and societal
norms just because somebody saysthey are supposed to be, feel
like that has so influenced my queerness and my ability to
(19:03):
stand firm and say I don't care what society says.
And so really it was just all building together.
OK. It's great.
Thank you for that. So there's a lot of different
points at which, you know, all of these pieces are falling
together here. Did you ever like go through
(19:24):
like a point where you'd hyper focused and just really did a
deep dive and figured out what all this meant about your life?
Yes, During COVID especially, I was laid off at the like pretty
early beginning of the like shutdown.
(19:47):
And so during the like, mass quarantine, I was just at home
alone most of the time because my spouse was still working.
And that that time was so transformative for me.
I spent so much time doing yoga and meditating.
(20:10):
And reading and indulging in substances.
And yeah, it was, it was definitely like a good few
months of just like really solidintrospection, all of the
identities that I held there. Are some authors who guided you
(20:34):
through that? Now off the top of my head and
like my brain just doesn't want to think of any authors, one of
my favorite authors randomly enough is Elliot Page.
His memoir was so incredible forme.
Reading that and like, reflecting on those experiences
and feeling the way that like, our stories are so unique but
(21:00):
so, so similar, and it just mademe wonder how many other trans
people's experiences were so, sosimilar like this.
When you first. Find your peer group like that
and you start reading about the stories and it just, it all
rhymes with your own experience.Even if it's not the same words
(21:21):
or the same circumstances, it just bounces right back and you
read yourself in it. Absolutely a non trans author
that also just like really guided me with the Monty Blair.
She's just this wonderful, wonderful woman.
I had the honor of seeing her speak at A at a dinner that I
(21:44):
attended when I was in college. And her work, her way of
highlighting women and differentqueer experiences because she's
a, a Muslim woman who is also queer and she's so open about it
and so just incredible. Yeah, I've, I've loved following
(22:09):
her and I've loved reading her works.
So. So I.
You know, I, I, I, I, I, when I first started transitioning, you
know, I didn't understand what my experience was because one of
the ways that I was like, I didn't know what it meant to be
trans. And so, like, it took me
(22:32):
reflecting on my life and my experiences to, to, to realize
that the experience that I had was the trans experience, the
disconnect with my body, the, the, the, the hatred for myself,
the yearning to want to be more in this insatiable desire to
(22:53):
like, want to talk to every trans person I saw ever pop up
on my feet or my tick back or Facebook.
I'm like, Oh my God, I have to meet these people for some
reason. Like, I don't know why, but
like, they're the most amazing people I've ever seen.
And you know, that's that's whatinspired the show was like not
understanding, you know, who I was in the sense and, and
realizing that I could no longerlive my life denying who I was.
(23:18):
And the show is in a way of likenot apologizing anymore for that
and just being seen and, and hearing these stories.
And it's been a really beautifulexperience.
And you know, was there a momentfor you that you realized that
you could no longer live with like with with that, like, you
(23:38):
know, that you could exist fully?
Was there a moment that you said, this is it, I'm not
apologizing anymore for my life.This is who I am?
What was the? Was there a moment?
Yes. I showed up to university my
freshman year. My parents had kicked me out
right before I graduated from high school, and so I spent that
(24:01):
summer couch hopping and just doing all sorts of stuff and
getting to college. My university had just built an
LGBT center and it was the firstyear it was open and Westboro
(24:26):
Baptist Church came to protest it and they were outside
protesting. And so in response, my like my
university organized a anti protest and we just had a dance
party outside in the common area, like in the lawn.
And it was just this huge, huge moment where so many people like
(24:51):
not just people from the LGBTQ center and people in the
community, but just like tons ofother people, tons of other
students were all out there together.
And I had just met one of my best friends to this day.
And they honestly, having them in my life has shaped so much of
(25:13):
my my trans identity too, because they're non binary and
but they're a gender. And so like their experience of
gender is so different from mine.
And so we really learned from each other in that.
But we were out there dancing and we were just both so happy.
And we're like, you know what? Screw this church.
We're just going to kiss in front of them.
(25:34):
And like, it was so platonic. It was so lovely and just so
free and that I just knew like Iwas never going to be able to go
back from that. I.
Love that. So you're in.
So now you're in university, what are you going to school
for? I actually graduated.
(25:55):
I like what? That's what I meant.
Like what? Did.
Oh yeah. Sorry, I started off as a social
work major, but I changed my degree a few times and I ended
up getting a degree just in general studies and I
concentrated on social and behavioral sciences.
So I studied a lot of psychology, human sexuality,
(26:19):
sociology, just all the different things that make
humans tick is really what I wasinterested in.
So. So how did that intersect?
How did that intersect then withyou becoming an EMT?
So I started working at, I worked at a, a camp, like a
(26:40):
summer camp and they needed a health officer to work in the
Infirmary. And I said OK, because I had
already enjoyed like first aid training and whatnot.
So I went and did that for the summer and I just fell in love
with it. So I came back to college and
(27:02):
took an EMT class and when I graduated I just started working
as an EMT. That's great.
Yeah. So tell us how you got connected
and brought and what brought youinto the nonprofit and community
work that Indy Pride does. Yeah, so I started volunteering
for them back when I was in college and just volunteering
(27:26):
for their different events and things to help put on,
especially the festival, becausethey always needed so many
volunteers. And I just, I fell in love with
the energy or the atmosphere. I fell in love with the look on
people's faces when they like walked in and they saw all of
(27:48):
the other crew people and you could just see the joy and the
safety and the contentment like just light up on their face.
And I so I started volunteering a lot and then I actually was
really good friends with one of the people that was working for,
(28:12):
for Indy Pride. And he told me that they had an
opening and I applied and just got lucky enough.
But it's such a small team. There's only three full time
staff members and I'm part time and there's one other part
timer. And so it's just us and a bunch
of volunteers. But honestly, it's so it, it's
(28:36):
so great. Yeah, make us so lucky.
I know I can I can see and feel your passion for for Andy pride
and and what does that look likein your in your life?
Both It's something you give andsomething you deserve.
Working and feeling passion and and and feeling passionate about
(28:59):
something because it sounds likeyou an EMT.
You talk about how seeing peopleyou basically what does care
look like in your life? What does care?
What does caring for others looklike?
I don't want anyone to walk awayfrom an event thinking that they
were unnoticed or unseen. I remember so many spaces
(29:25):
growing up where I felt so invisible and so lonely.
And I think everybody is just looking for somebody to see
them, to really see them, to really acknowledge them, really
ask how they're doing and really, truly mean it.
And that's, that's what I try todo.
(29:48):
I, I think that caring for people just starts it.
Acknowledging their personhood and meeting them exactly where
they're at, whether it's a good day, a bad day or whatever, and
making sure that everybody comesto our events and leaves feeling
(30:10):
loved. When you're serving a community
and drawing it, and at the same time in multiple facets here, do
you feel like people appreciate you for who you are and what you
bring as you are, without havingany reservations?
Do you feel that's changed from where you'd started?
I definitely do feel like it's changed.
(30:31):
I like there's so many moments where I I know how safe I am in
my surroundings. Like I know that even if my job
is asking manual labor of me, ifit's a really bad pain day or
whatever, I know that that's notgoing to be an ask.
I know that they'll adjust and accommodate for me.
(30:52):
And it's not even a second thought.
And nobody, you know, blinks when I whip out my cane and
whatever else. Just so many moments of other
parts of my identity that are are cared for as well.
And I I don't think I've ever worked in a place like that.
(31:17):
So that's, and that was a, a great answer to that question we
ask you. But you know, we're heading into
pride season, it's June, it's going to be Pride month.
People are getting excited afterespecially we thought under this
current administration Pride wasnot going to happen.
So just tell us, what does your work at Indy Pride currently
(31:38):
look like? And tell us, what are you most
proud of? So my work at Indy Pride is a
little varied. I do a lot of the office
administration board, which is things that you need.
You need to keep an organizationrunning a lot of the answering
emails and responding to phone calls, organizing the countless
(31:59):
boxes of supplies coming in for all of our events.
But I also do a lot of the otherlike random programming that we
do, not random programming, but other smaller programs that we
do. We try to do a monthly family
friendly program, whether it's art like arts and crafts or game
(32:21):
night or trivia night. We've been doing a lot of those
and so a lot of my work involvesrunning those and I've been
putting together a lot of different new partnerships to
plan more Trans Pacific events. Our community has really been
asking for more and I think especially during this time,
(32:44):
it's important to show up as much as we can and create that
space for for each other. So I have been starting some new
partnerships and we created a new a new event called the
Transmixer which was so fun. It was such a huge success.
We had like 7075 people come outto the very first one, which is
(33:09):
a pretty good turn out for us. We have.
A prom in Saint Louis. We did our very first prom this
year and it was a huge, huge, successful event.
It was incredible and that was such a such a fun experience to
get to do an adult prom. People showed up in everything
(33:30):
from full ball gowns to the theme was Winter Wonderland, but
it was like Alice in Wonderland.So people came in like Mad
Hatter, like really sexy outfits, just everything that
you could imagine. And I, I think that's so
(33:51):
reminiscent of the queer community.
There's so, so much variety and so many ways to express
yourself. And I love that people took the
the prom as that because my promexperience in high school, we
were told that if you were a girl, you had to wear a dress.
And if you were a boy, you had to wear pants.
And there was no in between. And so getting the freedom to
(34:12):
just wear anything that you wanted was so cool.
But yeah, so a lot of the work that I've been doing is just
trying to create new programs like that, just new spaces for
people to really exist and enjoythemselves.
So we're doing the Midwest TransPride Fest next weekend, and
(34:40):
that has been a huge, huge project to work on.
But it's been so fun and it's been just such an honor that
they included us because it's two other community
organizations that put this event on last year and they
reached out and included Indy Pride this year, which was just
(35:00):
such a such a huge honor for us.So yeah.
How long you've been with Indy Pride?
I started working for Indy Prideback in September of last year,
so about nine months, 8 months. All right, Yeah.
So it sounds like you're gettingdoing some great programming and
getting some great trans programming going and, and
(35:23):
making sure that trans visibility is always at the
forefront. So let me what is your vision
for truly inclusive career spaces?
Face it that on a disability, I know I'm probably saying this,
I'm always talking about we haveto remember our disabled, our
neurodivergent communities and racial identities and gender
(35:44):
expansiveness and spiritual differences.
I mean, we have all these different tribes and our and our
community. So how do you vision being
inclusive of all those spaces? I think it is a multifaceted
approach because there's so many, so many things that need
(36:08):
to be done. A really big push that we've
been trying for is to have an accessibility consultant that we
can really bring in as a paid expert on the subject.
(36:28):
But until then, a lot of the work that I've been doing has
been creating accessibility features like accessibility maps
for all of our events that show where there are quiet spaces.
And we always try to incorporatethat kind of thing into our
events and different, just different legends of like the
(36:49):
space will have bright lights or, you know, there will be a
lot more people here. There's areas to sit here and
all of those. And I think that creating the
space for everybody means starting with the most
(37:10):
vulnerable people. And so having interpreters at
all of our events, having every feature that we we reasonably
can to try to make our events more accessible.
And truly, my vision for Pride is to have an accessibility FAQ
(37:36):
for every single thing we do where people know that anything
that they need to know about, it'll be there for them.
Having a specific and more focused push for including
vendors from different groups and different organizations,
(37:58):
different communities, so that we can continue honoring those
intersections. And yeah.
Now, is Indy Pride an indoor or outdoor festival?
It's outdoors, so. I got a question for you.
And this is kind of leading to intersection.
So how do you at an outdoor festival have a quiet space for
(38:19):
those who are neuro divergent? And I'll probably say this
wrong. Excuse me, sound sensitive.
I know there's a name for a sound sensitive, but that's the
only thing I can think of right now.
Yeah. So what we did last year, which
was kind of our first year really being able to do this was
we created a space called Melo Chella and it was this huge tent
(38:46):
like tented area that was far away from the like mainstage.
And in this tented area, there was comfortable seats, there was
water, there was all sorts of fidget toys and earplugs.
There was even a sectioned off area of this tent that was fully
(39:09):
closed in with curtains. So it was dark.
And we had a DJ running a silentdisco so people could wear noise
cancelling headphones and play anything they wanted and adjust
the volume to whatever level they wanted and just be in their
own own space at the festival and away from everybody else.
(39:29):
And so that's, that's what we'vebeen trying to do.
And that's what we're going to do again this year and have
those spaces of just a moment ofpeace and quiet.
And yeah, I love. That that sounds great.
Have your considerations for like, you know, resources of
providing that space change withthe current administrations?
(39:51):
Are you concerned like about like the fascistic tactics
they're using? Are, you know, concerned about
violence or political backlash in this situation?
Yeah, we, we are always worried about safety.
We always have protesters that stationed themselves up outside
(40:15):
our events. This year since we have two big
events. It's not just the Indy Pride
Festival. This year we have Word of Mouth
concert series and the celebration on the circle and
that's in honor of our 30 year anniversary.
We're really going back to our roots.
There's a historic marker on theMonument Circle that shows where
(40:40):
the first Outdoor Pride was heldin 1995.
And so that's where we're holding this celebration on the
circle, this free celebration. But we're still doing everything
we can to ensure safety. We've got private security and
we've got barricades and we around the actual Word of Mouth
(41:01):
concert series. We've got that whole lot or that
whole lot is fenced in and everything we do Stop the Blade,
Stop the Bleed trainings for allof our volunteers, all of our
board, all of our staff. That's actually been one of my
programs, one of my projects. I, as an EMT, got myself Stop
(41:24):
the Bleed Trainer certified and I'm now leading Stop the Bleed
trainings for our organization. I've got like 6 of them
scheduled and I'm hoping to expand that into a program
called Safety Query where peoplecan ask questions about
maintaining their safety, maintaining their emotional
(41:45):
safety, how to deal with an emergency while also dealing
with crisis mindset and all of the other things and trying to
do those trainings to expand on our safety efforts.
So yeah. Just about like emotionally, you
know, what's been the hardest part of like doing the
(42:07):
visibility and care work when the political climate's been
like it has, has it been conflicts in that?
Yes, as a public facing person, I people find my personal
Facebook and my personal Instagram and they have an issue
(42:28):
with the organization. They have an issue with me as
well. But I, I tried really hard to
take it with a grain of salt. I talked to my therapist a lot,
a lot about it. And, you know, I really, really
just constantly remind myself that at the end of the day, the
(42:50):
work we're doing is always in service of our community.
And while it can always be better, that doesn't mean what
we're doing isn't good. So and I just kind of become a
mantra for myself. And I think that's really helped
because it can be really, reallyhard, but.
(43:12):
OK, so, you know, right now we're all going through, you
know, we feel like the world is closing in on us because we all,
we have all this hateful rhetoric, we have a hostile
climate. We got legislating being, you
know, Lawsley, and that's just against us so much.
So my question is, and I always ask everybody this, how do you
(43:34):
stay rooted in joy and ritual and resistance when it feels
like all hope is lost? I think that especially when
they try to push us into a smaller box, I always try to
just make it bigger. I try to create more spaces.
(43:56):
I try to find more spaces where I belong and my community
belongs. And I love that you stay.
Like how do you find joy and keep rooted in joy?
Because our motto is Indy Pride,Paul's Queer Joy home.
(44:19):
And joy truly is the greatest act of resistance sometimes.
Just saying, in spite of all of this, I am still here.
I'm still fighting, and I'm still loving my life.
Like I am creating new things even when you're telling me not
to do any of the things that I'malready doing.
(44:39):
And I am finding new people and more connections and just making
my world bigger even when they want it to be smaller.
So yes, because I want a T-shirtthat says my existence is
resistance. Yes, yes.
And I want a big shirt that saystrans joy.
(45:00):
Nothing you can do can take awaymy trans joy.
Because I don't know if you talkabout our joy enough as being
trans people. Absolutely.
One of our shirts for Pride lastyear was Joy is Justice and it
just said that over and over again in the in blinds that were
the color of the trans flag and it was just that was so good.
(45:23):
I love wearing that shirt I wearall the time.
I should have worn it today. But got any of those leftover?
I'll send you some. Yeah, I'll.
Send you one. Don't worry about that.
I'll send you one, OK. Yes, I would love that because I
I love wearing stuff like that. I wear.
I want one. Yeah, look at us where I want
one. OK.
(45:43):
Yes, Roy. I expect that you will drop the
contacts in the chat for me or in the e-mail for me.
Yes, yes. Beautiful.
I love wearing other Prides shirts because we need to trans
people and pride people. We need to unify and stand in
solidarity and work together. So what have you learned about
(46:05):
the difference between performative inclusion and lived
liberation? Yeah, performative inclusion is
actually like when I see it, performative inclusion is looks
(46:27):
like people staying that the space for whatever identity, but
then they've not actually created any specific
accommodations or like had actual thoughts for it.
Like when a place says that they're inaccessible space and
(46:49):
then they would step to get to the front door.
And I feel like that's so such performative inclusion and with
within the queer community, I feel like the the, the
difference between actual liberation and that just
(47:12):
performing inclusion is just this true intent to understand
where the need comes from and truly addressing the need at at
its root. Instead of just slacking a pride
(47:34):
flag on there or saying you are welcome here or putting even
just your pronouns on a on a sticker, but you're still not
using people proper pronouns. Like it's that actual
intentional root care. Mess I I agree with that.
(47:58):
I think I like to see like it's to me it seems like at least
it's the corporate pride stuff that's very performatively
inclusive. And then, like, as soon as June
is over, they whitewash their flags into flags of political or
surrender instead. Yeah.
What will let us look like, though, in your care when you're
(48:22):
giving them to prioritize the most vulnerable people in your
leadership role? Like not just during Pride
Month, but every day to look outfor the people who need it the
most. Really.
Honestly, I recently had to callout no call in a board member
(48:47):
who suggested as a way to save money that we cut interpreters
from events that, quote UN quote, didn't need them.
Every event needs an interpreter.
If we take away access for our most vulnerable people, we don't
deserve to have a space for anybody or to claim that space.
(49:11):
Truly, I should say, put our name on it and I spoke up very,
very quickly. I kind of I butted into a
meeting that I wasn't even a part of.
Oops. I that's important and I again,
I don't have a lot of social boundaries.
Thank you autism. So I'm going to speak up to
(49:34):
things like that and I try to keep, keep doing that, yeah.
The superpower makes you look out for justice.
Oh no. I know what.
I know. So I'm ask you a big dream
question. What is your dream for what Indy
pride and pride is shelf? What is your dream for Indy?
(49:57):
Pride and pride itself. My dream is a three accessible
like truly accessible seating, free food, free water, free good
bathrooms, not disgusting 1 Porter potty to share between
700 people. True full access for everybody
(50:22):
that wants it and needs it, without corporate sponsors, with
local organizations, with the local community all coming
together to celebrate. It's a big dream, but I think
it's possible. OK, Yeah.
Well, where can our listeners find a way to participate in
(50:46):
your dream for Pride here to follow what you're doing for
Indy Pride. Our website isindypride.org.
We are always, always asking formore volunteers and asking for
more connections. Truly, you work for an
organization that you think has a cool service that would
(51:06):
benefit the community. I want to hear it.
You can like e-mail me the info@indypride.org. e-mail is my
Direct Line and truly everythingthat we do.
Would it be possible without thepeople who volunteer their time
(51:27):
and their ideas? Not just their time, but their
ideas and their thoughts and their opinions?
Because we need that. We need people in the room
making these decisions with us, voicing the things that matter
to them. So yeah, can volunteer with us.
(51:48):
Now if if someone came to you and said I carry too many
identities to ever belong, what would you say to that person?
OK, there's no such thing, no such thing.
As we saw in my little bio. I identify with so many
different things and sometimes Ido find some of my identities
(52:13):
limiting. There's there's no denying that
there are times when I am limited in the things that I can
do, the places that I can go, but I also know that in the
right space, all of my other identities will be cared for in
the same way. And so finding the right people.
(52:40):
And truly, I feel like within the queer community, there is so
much more acceptance for differences, no matter what
those differences are. And so I think that there's no
such thing as too many identities.
The more the merrier you. Prefer complex people.
We love this. Yes, that's the beauty of our
community. Is that why we have identities
(53:03):
and intersectionalities and and things that just make us
beautiful? Yes, absolutely.
I want to hear that you are non binary and ace and Polly and
queer and trans, all these things like I want.
I want to know all the facets. Yes, people, so.
And I make sure those vendors that have the flags have all the
(53:24):
right flags, all of them, not all the right flags, all the
flags. All the flags.
All the flags. But I think there are times too
when it is especially when you know there are 50 flags out
there and you can only put a certain number.
Today I saw a vendor who had thetrans flag, the progress flag,
(53:46):
and the asexual flag on their table.
And those were three communitiesthat I felt the progress flag
with the the intersex symbol on it as well.
And those were just three communities that I felt like,
especially now are under so muchattack that to highlight those
(54:08):
and like bring those to the center, it was really cool to
see in that way. So I kind of appreciated that as
well. I always make sure the vendors
have an intersex flag. Since I'm intersex, you got I
have that flag. Absolutely.
What does queer joy? What does queer joy look like
(54:30):
for you, right now? For you?
And how do you protect your queer joy?
Expressing myself however I want, even if it is more
femininely, because I think as atrans masculine person, people
get very put off when I want to express femininity, when I want
to wear a skirt or paint my nails.
(54:54):
And so I think expressing that and wearing that and loving
myself in it and like relishing in it, even if it's only for me
because sometimes I'll paint my nails and I won't really wear it
out, but it's for me. And I think giving myself that
time to do that, I've really been getting back into my yoga
(55:18):
routine. And that has been just such a
form of self love for me becauseevery time I do it, I just feel,
I feel so great afterwards. And I know that I've taken time
that I might have designated I was too busy.
How am I too busy to care for myself?
That's ridiculous. So like knowing that I have
(55:40):
stopped that mindset of I'm too busy for care and saying like
there's I'm never too busy for care.
Like care is has to be first sometimes.
And just yeah, that's don't takecare.
I feel that, I feel that becauselike, you know, the more that I,
I come to understand myself, themore that like I embrace the
(56:01):
masculine part because like I feel that I just, I radiate
femininity. So I don't feel like I have to
try, you know, whereas and, and now I don't have to feel like, I
used to feel like I had to try to be a man, but now I just, I
don't feel. But then I would restrict it.
I would resist it. Now I'm just embraced it because
like, it doesn't take away from who I am on the inside.
(56:23):
Exactly. Yeah, I, I got top surgery.
Oh my God, almost three years ago now.
That's so incredible. And after that, there was just
this such great moment of, oh, wow, I can wear whatever I want
(56:45):
and I still feel and look like aman and I still am so
comfortable with myself. Like there was just no second
thinking of like forming femininity.
It was just I'm a guy that enjoys feminine things like
other guys do. Like why not so but.
(57:06):
What's something that fills you with pride?
Not. Joy.
And we talk about pride, and everybody knows that joy and
pride are two different are two different things.
So what fills you with pride? When people come up to me at an
event and tell me that they weren't sure if they were going
(57:26):
to come, but they were so glad that they did.
And that sense of like I did, that I made this event happen.
I was part of this team. It fills me with such pride.
Like I, I'm, I'm so proud of thework that I do doing the Stop
(57:48):
the Bleed training. Standing up there for that first
training was such a cool moment of my passions and my academic
interests and all of these things coming together.
And to be in that space where like I was the teacher was so,
(58:12):
so cool. And that definitely, that
definitely filled me with pride.And like, I think specifically
because I was a trans teacher, like people often think of a
paramedic or an EMT and they think of this like, big burly
man or whatever. And like, I walk in looking like
(58:36):
I do. I'm pretty scrawny.
I call myself a twink. Yeah, I'm a short king.
And knowing that, like, I was giving them knowledge
specifically for our community and specifically from a queer
person that like, maybe they've never seen a queer person in
(58:57):
this way before and like that. That's freaking cool.
Yeah. And I'm so proud of myself and
I'm so proud of my identity and that being able to show that
like. People.
Like people are so many other things.
They save lives every day. They're important.
(59:18):
Yeah. You know, I, I just want to take
this moment and just thank everyone for being here.
You know, Athena, thank you for giving me your time today and
being here. Yes, thank you for thank you for
being here too. Yes, Jordan, I really enjoyed
(59:41):
having you here today. Thank you for being with me
today. Thank you for asking me.
I always love these podcasts arebeing on with you.
And thank you for thank you and Athena for collaborating at the
beginning and getting this together to tell our trans
stories because in today's worldand climate, that is very
important. And I want to tip my wig to you
to say thank you so much for that.
(01:00:03):
Well, you know, I want to thank our audience for being here week
after week and tuning in and listening and giving us your
time and your attention and, andsupporting this show.
It, it, it really does mean a lot.
And if you'd like to be on and Share your story, please e-mail
us at transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
That's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
(01:00:24):
And as we begin to wrap up today, Athena, you have any
final questions that you'd like to ask before we go?
Yeah, Hudson, if you could just shine your light back on
yourself when you were younger, if you were lost in the darkness
(01:00:44):
back when you were a kid and andyou had to give yourself advice
to get through the toughest time, what would be the truth
you'd tell yourself? I would tell myself that there
are people out there who are going to love me exactly as I
am, without even knowing all of the parts of me, and even when
they do find out all of them, they'll still love me in the
(01:01:07):
exact same way. Yes.
Being here, do you have any final questions that you'd like
to? Yes, I have.
A question do I have? I really don't have.
Yes, you do. OK, I got one.
I got one. I got one.
It popped up in my head just now.
If your story could light a torch for someone lost in the
(01:01:28):
dark, what truth would it carry?Do you want me to you know?
I was just thinking, OK, all right, pain isn't the thing that
defines us. It might be the thing that helps
us grow and shape us. But joy is really the thing that
(01:01:51):
does define us. Not the moments of dysphoria,
the moments of euphoria. And finding those moments are
what's going to lead you to yourtruest self.
That was beautiful. I'm I always loved, you know,
(01:02:13):
coming together and having this podcast and just thank everyone
for being here and you know, it's pride month and you know,
it's it's a wonderful time. It's the most one.
Sorry. Starts in eight hours.
Great hours of ticking. Tick, tick.
Tick, tick. That would have been yesterday.
(01:02:34):
That would have been previously since we're we're already none.
Oh, we're in Pride month. That's right.
Oh, we're in Pride Month. Scratch.
He's participating in the fiction that the show is I.
Scrolled. Oh my God, I spoiled the reality
of it all. This collapsing reality is
collapsing. Damn.
Yes, yes, it is. It is, yes, you know.
(01:02:58):
We look good doing editing. Oh yes, can't wait to we'll put
this up on YouTube. Put this wonderful video up.
We need, you know what we need? We need a bloopers reel.
That would be great, but. You know, we're here and and so
many, you know, we're so we were, we were, we were
concerned. And you know, it's, it's it, it
(01:03:20):
feels good to to be here this far into it so far and still be
able to smile and and go out andcelebrate and take pride in in
our history and our fight for our rights.
And that's and thank you so muchfor.
Being in the 70s and 80s, we're here, we're queer.
Get used to it. That's right, Hudson, thank you
(01:03:43):
for being here. And thank you so much.
Absolutely. And as we begin to wrap up and
depart this this week and into Pride month of message, would
you like to leave with us and, and more importantly, as you
share with us a message, can youshare a moment for us that that
makes you smile and, and gives you just this euphoric sense of
(01:04:07):
joy and pride? I hope that the start of your
Pride month is absolutely wonderful and that you find
spaces to exist, even if it's just celebrating by yourself,
spaces where You Can Dance around and love yourself.
(01:04:28):
And I hope that you come and join us at Indy Pride for Indy
Pride Weekend on June 14th and 15th.
Come volunteer with us, come hang out, come enjoy the
festivities and the celebration.Yeah, this morning there was a
(01:04:49):
drag performance at our pet Pride festival, and there was a
little kid who ran up and just started dancing with the drag
queen, and they spent the entirerest of the song dancing
together. And it was so beautiful to see
(01:05:15):
this kid with no reservations, No Fear, no doubts, just
embracing and loving and enjoying this beautiful art
form. And that was so, so wonderful.
(01:05:35):
So yeah, that was a, that was a great moment of, of joy to to
think about. Music.
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