On this episode, Athena and Caroline meet Olivia Nied, a radiant queer, trans, and neurodivergent musician whose voice and artistry are as nuanced as her identity. They begin by tracing Olivia’s creative roots, from her early musical influences like Queen and the Beach Boys to her transformative experiences at a UK ukulele festival. Along the way, Olivia reflects on how music became both a mirror and a map in her gender journey, helping her find language for joy, self-recognition, and resistance.
As the conversation deepens, the trio explores Olivia’s most recent album Just Enough, an intimate project born from personal heartache and defiant self-expression. Olivia shares how her neurodivergence and transness shape her songwriting and how reclaiming what it means to be “too much” helped her land in the sweet spot of being “just enough.” Together, they dive into everything from musical improvisation to the psychedelic arms race between Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper, all while celebrating the queerness embedded in music’s DNA.
They close with reflections on persistence, creativity, and the power of finding joy in small moments. Olivia offers advice to her younger self, talks about balancing art and survival, and dreams out loud about a future where music sustains her full-time.
“Olivia Nied (she/they) is a singer/songwriter whose work is shaped by her experience as a queer, trans, and neurodivergent artist. Olivia has been writing and performing original music since she was nine years old. Her debut solo album, Just Enough, released last year, dives into themes of radical joy, identity, neurodivergence, and the search for belonging.”
https://olivianied.com/home
**
“Make it real to me” written by Athena Promachus, covered by Boy Bowser
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline.
And today I'm here with Oh my God, it's Athena.
Hi, Athena. Hi, well, welcome back to the
Trans Narrative podcast, everyone.
It's great to be here. It is, it is so good to have
you. Thank you for being here.
And Olivia. Olivia need our very special
guest today. Hello.
(00:21):
Hi, it's great to be here. This is so exciting.
Also, good to have you. So before we get started, a
little bit about Olivia. Olivia is a singer-songwriter
whose work is shaped by her experience as a queer, trans,
and neurodivergent artist. Olivia has been writing and
performing original music since she was nine years old.
Her debut Solar album Just Enough, released the last year,
(00:43):
dives into themes of radical joy, identity, neurodivergence
in the search for belonging. Olivia, it's so good to have
you. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me, I'm really excited about this.
So beautiful. Well, welcome back to the Trans
(01:08):
Narrative Podcast room. Today we have a very special
guest, Olivia need. Thank you so much for joining
us. Olivia, how are you doing today?
I'm doing really well actually. Yeah, I'm very excited.
I feel very, very, very bubbly and carbonated today that you,
you are both lovely, lovely people so.
Well, it's wonderful to join youin to get a chance to talk with
(01:30):
you. I've seen your Tik Toks and
that's kind of how I was introduced to like your music.
You're a very talented guitaristand singer and your, your songs
that you're right. I I just kind of want to get
started and talk about kind of like your influences and what
could you tell us about like when you first realized that
music would be your lifelong companion?
(01:51):
Oh, sure, definitely from a really early age for me
actually, because I have my bothof my parents play instruments.
So I kind of like from a young age, my dad would play guitar
and like piano around the house.And I always just wanted to be
(02:12):
around that from like some of myearliest memories or just
wanting to like be next to my dad and hear him like play
something. And I wanted to take guitar
lessons. It was all like self motivated
for me. There really wasn't any.
Like it wasn't like my parents were pushing me into anything.
They were honestly just wanted me to do what interested me.
(02:32):
But it was music because it was like surrounding me constantly.
So I kind of, it was kind of like from the earliest ages, I
think I was really like pushed into that, yeah.
Gotcha. Well, it just kind of an
instinct that was helped and guided by your parents having
(02:53):
some musical talent and some investment of their own into
that of like, what were some of the favorite songs you learned
to play with your? Parents.
Yeah. Oh, totally.
Well, a lot of it was stuff thatmy parents played for me that
like kind of was like early influences and stuff.
My mom was like, my mom got me really into like a lot of 70's
(03:16):
rock and stuff like Queen and Elvis Costello and people like
that. So that was like early stuff I
was hearing. And then my dad was like really
into like 60s like The Beach Boys.
And like I would listen to like early Bob Dylan and stuff like
that and like David Bowie and stuff, big influence in terms of
(03:36):
like music. But also just like that was kind
of like, that was like the one example I had when I was young
of like how queerness and music can intersect.
Like I didn't really have a lot.So for me that was like
something that's like, oh, I didn't know that was allowed.
Like you could, you could do that.
So yeah, it was kind of like stuff like that.
I, I actually, when I first started to play music myself and
(03:59):
I like, had learned a few chordsand stuff like that.
I for some reason really gravitated toward a lot of early
50s and 60s stuff because it waseasy to pick up and it was easy
to like, sing, and the melodies were really infectious.
So I think I was really attracted to stuff where I could
get almost like instant results or feel like I could do
(04:20):
something really quickly. Well, I can definitely hear like
that Elvis Costello kind of vibewith your approach to like
guitar playing and your lyricismdefinitely reflects on that kind
of internalized Bob Dylan kind of melody.
I kind of get notes of fish in in how you play.
(04:41):
Well, a little bit. Oh my God, yeah.
That's so funny because you mentioned that because my friend
Sam Shafray, who I put, he's an amazing mandolin player and he's
like a great friend of mine. He plays in a Like a Fish and
Grateful Dead like cover band, and I've played shows with him
where we've played a lot of fishsongs.
So that makes a lot of sense. OK.
(05:03):
OK. So, OK.
So before we go any further, you've said a lot of names.
So yes, I have to know I'm Dylan.
Favorite songs? Oh my God, wow that's a huge
catalog I love. It's not shelter from the storm
I don't want to hear. Oh my God.
I mean, honestly, the whole Blood on the Tracks album is
(05:24):
like it for me. I mean I love a lot of his work,
but like that whole album is like such a really interesting
lyrical album. Like there's so many even just
single lines that stand out for me.
Like the something there's some line about like a Corkscrew to
the heart or something on that. And that always really resonated
(05:47):
for me because that was just like a really visceral image.
So I love, I would say like, I don't know, Tangled Up in Blue
is great. Idiot Wind is great if I feel
like enraged by political things, which is kind of often
lately. So oh gosh.
Masters of War I think is 1 because he just tells people to
(06:08):
go drop dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What? About what?
About Fish? Who what what?
What songs do you like from Fish?
Because Fish is a band that's you either like him or you just
don't. Yeah, yeah.
Well, actually for me, I just interms of like fish, I actually
think that, like, Trey Anastaciois really underrated as a
guitarist and is often not, you know, mentioned in terms of like
(06:31):
some of the most interesting, I think even not even terms of
technical stuff. But I really like his guitar
tone that he achieves. It's very unique.
It's very like compressed, but like kind of rich.
So yeah. Yeah.
I actually, it's funny. There's this song that I play
with my friend Sam that is really funny because the lyrics
(06:51):
are just kind of goofy and ridiculous and full of innuendo.
But I really like Meat Stick by Fish if you're familiar with
that song. I love, that's why I like I
really there was one song that they did.
It was like the wheels or it waslike it wasn't the wheels on the
bus go round, but it was it was talking about a car or something
like I don't even remember. But the way that they do lyrics
(07:12):
is so fascinating. One of my favorite songs is
Farmhouse. I like that song and I really
appreciated their Fuego album I think, which came out in 2014.
Fuego. So listen to that, because I
haven't actually really listenedto a lot of their, like, studio
albums. Like my friend Sam is always the
(07:33):
type of person who's like, oh, let's listen to this live
concert of Fish from like 29 or 2009 or something.
And I'm like, oh, OK. Sometimes it's the best way to
approach a band, too. Like Fish isn't necessarily like
a studio recording kind of band.They tour so much that like,
yeah, their sound is what you see in those live shows.
(07:53):
Well, they probably picked up one where the Grateful Dead, you
know, had had taken off because what I really liked about the
Grateful Dead was like within the, the, the, the band, they
would have like sets, like keys or notes that they would all
like. They all would know that they
would all know those notes and they would know that if they
hear each other playing that note, that would mean for them
(08:14):
to shift to the next like like sound or the next jam.
And so like so they would freestyle jamming, but they
would use certain tones and keysto identify with each other
where to go within the next likejam.
Even though it was freestyling like they communicated through
the sound, which I thought was so fascinating.
I think it's fascinating that like the Grateful Dad and Jerry
(08:36):
Garcia and people like that wereactually were really influenced
by like jazz artists like John Coltrane and people like that.
Not even in terms of like their sound, because it was kind of
really different, a really different sound.
But in terms of like, their approach of having a song form
that had all this room for improvisation, like the song
(08:57):
form was roughly the same, but what you did in that space was
different, like every show basically.
That's why I like about a lot ofpeople say covers, covers are
they're, they don't like covers,but I think covers are
fascinating because a lot of times you get to hear the
generational differences and like the, the, the learning and
how far you've come with sound. And so I think it's done in
(09:19):
honor of, of the sound before. I think they come out really
beautiful. Yeah, I agree 100%.
There are definitely some just plain cash grabs out there, like
our band can't cut it. We have to find something that
will make people come to our shows to buy our albums.
Yeah, I mean, I always like my mom has this joke where like I
(09:40):
have so much original material at this point that I've done
whole like original shows. But sometimes I'll just throw
like I don't know why, but if I'm with like a slightly older
crowd, people go nuts over me and Julio.
People love Paul Simon, like certain generations and Paul
Simons great and stuff. But I think it's really funny
where my mom, if the show is just like kind of not going
(10:03):
great and like my mom happens tobe there, she'll be like, give
them the Julio. They do the Julio.
They want that. And I'm like, OK.
It's a, it's a balance. You have to learn how to like,
engage with the audience from where they are in this modern
distracted world. Like I went to a show that was
like 1/2 cover band and like, well, half of the songs they
(10:23):
play were covers and half was their own original material.
Because they can get a lot more people out that way just by
saying, oh, this is a pop punk show, We're going to do a 90s
and 2000 revival. And then half of the people,
they were complaining, well, whydon't they play more of their
original songs? And half of them were going
like, why don't they play more of the?
Stuff from 2. 1000 they brought us in here for the stuff that we
(10:44):
were. It's such a balance and ethical
too. You have to really feed to them.
Yeah, no, absolutely. So I want to, I feel like I
derail a little bit. I'm sorry.
It's OK. I I want to ask you about your
writing process. And before I say that, I'd like
to preface with, well, before that, I do have a question.
(11:06):
What's one of your favorite? Well, who's one of your favorite
bands out there? Like if you had to like if you
were like, if it was a like a life or death situation and they
were like, hey, you got to choose to survive, who would you
choose? Favorite and specifically.
Artist Yeah, well, let's go withband.
Sure. OK.
(11:26):
Specifically, favorite band I got to like, I got to think
about that for a second because that's like, that's a lot of
like a big Rolodex coaster. Jeez, a favorite band?
Let me think, who would I go with?
Sam. Who's your favorite band?
(11:48):
It. Like either varies from
day-to-day, but like some of my life transforming bands are like
Radiohead. Oh, OK.
I mean, I, I guess like, I'm well, OK, yeah, I think I know
what I would say. I I would probably pick The
Beach Boys for me, honestly, just in terms of like I could go
(12:11):
off on a whole thing about BrianWilson, which I will save so I
don't go down that tangent, but I'm obsessed with like Pet
Sounds and their productions, such a.
Great album, I love that. It's amazing.
It's so good. I have so many.
There's so many things I can sayabout why it's good, but it's
just, it's really great. It's perfection.
Tell me, have you heard Janelle Monae's dirty computer?
(12:34):
Yes, I think so because I think Brian Wilson is on that somehow.
He he's the one doing the the vocals on that track just as it
introduces that home. I love like her her work
entirely her full catalog Janelle Monáe.
But that's yeah, that that startof that very deep rich speech
boys vocal is just so it's so uncommon to hear.
I know. My favorite band is my favorite
(12:58):
band is Sugarland. You wouldn't believe that, but
it's a country band, but it's not really country if you really
listen to them. So, yeah, yeah.
You know, what I really like about Pet Sounds is it coincides
at that time with the with Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart
Club band. And what I thought was so
interesting, especially with TheBeach Boys and The Beatles is
like, if you, if you observe them from, you know, a
(13:20):
historical standpoint, it's really fascinating to launch
like how psychedelics come into the play.
And Bob Dylan had a lot to do with that as well, because Bob
Dylan was the one that gave The Beatles their, their, their
first doses of, of, of, you know, weed and, you know, LSD.
And so, and it was just so interesting to listen.
And I feel like Pet Sounds is that moment for The Beach Boys
(13:42):
where like, you know, psychedelic and may they may not
have done it themselves, but like the influences of that
around them, like definitely played into that.
And like, God only knows. I really like that song.
That's a really. Pretty.
Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, I think like Paul
McCartney said it was one of hisfavorite songs of all time
because I think that, like, a lot of that, when people talk
(14:03):
about Pet sounds versus SergeantPepper's and stuff, I think it's
often like, framed as this like competition in the sense of
like, I need to beat you. But I feel like it, from what
I've read, it was not that at all.
It was more just like, I just, Ifeel inspired by this.
I need to create something in a similar direction or my own
version of what this is. There's.
(14:26):
Yeah. Honestly, that's always so cool
to me. I always find that so
fascinating. It's sort of just a moment when
studio recording became more thepoint of the music than live
shows. Like The Beatles were like, OK,
we've made enough money off of of our crowds to spend so much
time in the studio to make these, you know, outlandish to
(14:47):
the time. Yeah, these sounds.
And really, I think that's kind of what it became is like they
were just kind of the first people to get enough money to
spend enough time in the studio to really innovate from an
amateur perspective. Yeah.
Sound engineers who had spent time going through college were
told for four years that music goes like this.
(15:07):
Yeah. Can't deviate from that or it
might break the machine or it might, you know, cause weird
effects or whatever. So, so they just got a chance to
poke around at the machine that no, nobody else really had had a
chance to from like a young, young age to they were, you
know, musicians like that and kind of tampering with the sound
as they went along. Yeah, yeah, just the whole like
(15:30):
playing the studio as its own separate instrument kind of
thing. So can you, can you, can you
tell us about the moment when you realize that music would be
like a lifelong companion and this kind of thing that you
wanted to pursue? It's like a defining moment for
(15:51):
me of that. Yeah, I guess I could actually.
I think a big defining moment for me was like, and this is
like, I almost like say this in a way that almost sounds like
too cavalier sometimes because I'm so used to the fact that
(16:13):
like, hey, it's not, yeah, it's not everybody's experience that
they like, you know, play in front of like 800 people when
they're like 10. But I did.
And that was an experience that I played at AI, played at a
ukulele festival in the UK, which is such a weirdly specific
thing, but I did. And that was a definitely a
(16:37):
defining moment where I played with this band that were the
band that was kind of backing upeveryone else playing at the
same festival. And we just worked out a song
that we wanted to do in the dressing room before and did it.
And I think it gave me this realization of like, oh, I have
(17:00):
this language that allows me to feel connected to other people
in a way that words kind of can't.
Like I feel like I have this shared language of music in a
way to meet people and connect with other people.
That works for me. And that was when I felt like,
well, why would I want to, like,let that go or not pursue that?
If this is working for me and this feels right I should be
(17:23):
doing that, then it probably is,right?
I felt that, I feel that way, I felt that way with when I
transitioned, I felt like, you know, I don't think this is
right, but it felt I didn't question.
It was one of the first times that I, I didn't question myself
And, and that and I, and I, and I resonate with that.
Speaking of what has been, you know, as you delved into, you
(17:47):
know, expanding in your journey with with music and, and, you
know, crafting that, how did your relationship with gender
play a role in that? Yeah, totally.
Well, interestingly, I feel likeI have that that very
quintessential like trans experience of having like bits
(18:08):
of coming to realize my trans identity before I knew what that
was like sprinkled throughout many, many different moments in
my life. But I didn't necessarily have
the words for that. I just kind of felt that there
was something like different going on.
And one of those like early moments that I remember was I
(18:30):
was like very young. I was like 9 and 10.
And I would play like little shows at like local restaurants
in my hometown and places like that and would do would cover
songs by female artists and, andnot like flip the pronouns in
the songs. Like I've heard a lot of artists
(18:50):
like they'll switch he to she orthey'll switch like she to he or
something like that. And I just didn't, I just didn't
do it and I refused to do it. And a lot of the time people
would ask me about why and I would give them some kind of
answer about like artistic integrity or something of the
song. But that was like a bullshit
answer. Honestly.
It was like it was the real reason was because I like wanted
(19:13):
to see myself in the perspectiveof the character in the song
because I felt like the character in the song,
especially if it was a song about like a girl or a woman or
something. So that was like, and I wasn't
exactly, I didn't have the wordsto articulate that.
It was just something I was doing at the time.
And then I just sort of, I thinkI remember meeting a girl in my
(19:39):
actually in my high school who is trans.
I went to the high school in upstate New York, which in like
a weirdly conservative part of upstate New York, which does
exist. And like I remember meeting a
girl in my high school who was trans and was like, I want to be
around this person all the time.And I don't know why that is.
(20:00):
I just remember being like, I want to be your.
I need to be your friend. Like I need this to happen.
And kind of softly came out in like middle to high school, but
I think. I think a lot of people did in
(20:21):
my life, didn't really take it seriously or didn't really think
I was being genuine about it. I think they thought I was kind
of joking around and stuff, so it didn't really like.
I didn't actually start taking HRT or pursuing anything like
that until college. Even though I came out kind of
softly a lot before that. I didn't really start to connect
(20:44):
more of the dots in a solid way until much later, I would say.
So it's something that I always felt like it pulled me through
the music that I made. Like it was like I I wrote a
song. Like I wrote so many songs just
about hating being a man, like the moment I hit puberty.
(21:07):
Right, right. Yeah.
So like, it kind of just like sublimated itself for me cuz
like, I was very much in a conservative area.
Everyone went to Christian high school.
It took me until I was like 25 or 27 before I could really
acknowledge a lot of the deep internal truths about myself
that we're pretty much plainly lying on the surface right
(21:28):
about, you know, 15 or so. Yeah, that happens, yeah.
Yeah, it, it, it's something that it's wonderful to see so
much less resistance for, for young people and to, to see them
able to live their full lives through this experience.
It's it's a kind of a unique thing for, for older people who
(21:52):
like just kind of saw people whocame out as trans disappear from
their lives. It's amazing to see you grow up
in this environment and and provide some, some great new
music to to go along with that. How how is that intersected with
your your songwriting? Like say from your album, do you
have any specific lyrics you'd point to?
(22:13):
Oh totally. I I have this.
I have a lot of lines in my album that I would, I would
literally say the specific line is the trifecta of like
friendsness and neurodivergence within the same line.
And I have a lot of lines in my album that are that.
And there's like one that I think about a lot where I was
(22:35):
talking about working a terrible, like retail job that I
hated, where I was like, I lean on a counter and I put on a mask
and I try to feel anything from each menial task.
And then I had this line that was like where I, I drink gas
station coffee and customers taunt me.
They wonder if I am a boy or a girl and I have like lines like
(22:58):
that where it wasn't even like someone literally asked me that.
I just like did a summary of allthese things that people would
like. Things that people who don't
know any better just ask, straight up ask trans people.
Like I had worked at a retail job and it was like, you know,
9:00 in the morning and someone was like, what surgeries have
(23:21):
you had? And I'm like, it's 9:00 AM.
Like, come on, give me a break. It's like, what if I walked into
your house and was like, you know, hey, what are your medical
records like? And it was 9 in the morning or
something. Man, Yeah, a lot of presumption
(23:42):
that can happen in those like, especially like retail
interactions. Yeah.
So like, what have you been doing for life?
Can you tell us about like how your career has progressed, what
you've? Yeah, yeah, totally.
Well, I did a last year, I did AI did that album that I was
(24:03):
talking about and I, I did a Kickstarter campaign to like
raise the money for the album, which was really cool.
And I had had some prior experience when I was younger
being like in an actual studio environment.
But I hadn't had a lot like where I actually am doing all of
the parts and being part of the whole mixing and mastering and
(24:24):
all of the other stages that go with producing an album.
So that was really cool. And it's really, I have like
such a weird, I haven't figured out how to combine them yet
because I sort of have this day job and day-to-day life thing
where I do I'm like a direct support professional.
(24:44):
So I just work with like other autistic people and I help with
like just doing appointments or phone calls or things that are
just not super accessible to anyone, particularly other
autistic people. And when I'm not doing that, I'm
trying to make music work for more of a full time thing.
(25:05):
And that is proving to be a little difficult, but I've been
getting more traction within thelast couple of years alone than
I ever had. I think because of honestly,
social media and weirdly TikTok has been this massive boost to
(25:26):
my music and stuff was, was getting on that.
So I think I, I, I don't know, like where it will ultimately
end up, but I would love to be able to like just put me in a
studio and just let me make stuff all the time and be able
to live on that. Like that's all I really want to
do. And that's all I keep coming
back to, which is awesome and horrible because it like makes
(25:50):
no money. It's like the one thing my brain
keeps coming back to that I loveto do and I can sustain is
really next to impossible to sustain unless you have a lot of
money to begin with to kind of just throw at it, basically,
yeah. If you, if you don't have the
time to put into it as a full time job, you can't get the same
(26:11):
kind of results as people who dowho have the money to sustain
themselves. Otherwise, it's it's kind of an
imperial task and until you've got some establishments or until
you make some connections withinthe world, definitely, yeah, it
definitely does come down to thekind of putting it a priority
like a job. It's something for me that's
just almost always been an expensive hobby and habit really
(26:34):
more. Yeah, yeah.
Like I, I spend so much time doing it, but it brings me
enough joy that it's not a job. So that's kind of what you'd
want to put that as a job. But like then you have to plug
into it if it does become your job.
And then your 40 hours a week islike managing other people's
music and trying to tell them expectations are maybe
(26:55):
unrealistic and we can change things up.
I think the thing that I realized that has helped me
within the last few years is if you're offered an opportunity,
even if it's seems kind of over your head, just say yes to
anything. Basically, even if it it seems
out of reach, I I've said yes tothings, not knowing I can do the
(27:17):
show before like, oh, can you play bass?
And I like, I guess technically,Oh, can you play bass with my
band for this whole show and we'll pay you for it.
I just said yes to something like that, not knowing I could
do if I could do it or not, because I'm like, I will damn
well learned. That's right.
That's what I said. That's what I tell my I tell
just listen. Just just do it and just say yes
(27:38):
and then figure it out. After.
Yeah, Spider with podcasting. I saw you.
Yeah, just. Yeah, have an interest and try
it. So tell us about let's go deeper
into just the math. I want to know more sure about
that, the inspiration and the journey behind the album.
Totally. Sure about the albums like.
(28:05):
Like how did that, how did it come to life?
How did you, where was the, where was the inspiration for
it? How did it blossom into being?
Totally. So, well, I guess I could start
with the name just enough was I wanted to call the album
something that was the flip sideof being called like too much or
(28:29):
feeling like you're too much. Because I had had an experience
recently or, or when I was writing the album where I had
confessed to someone in my life at the time that I had like
feelings for them and that I I like felt for them in a romantic
way. And it inspired a whole other
song on the album. But I, I remember laying that
(28:53):
out there and like kind of rehearsing it in the car on the
way and thinking about how I would say it to the person.
And I remember them saying, you know what, you're kind of a lot
sometimes. And.
Hear that all the time. And I literally, I had this
moment of like, oh, OK. And then I left the place I was
at. I just drove home with like,
(29:13):
mascara running kind of like tears.
Because it's like hard to be told you're a lot when you're
just being honest or direct. And I think that like when I
thought about that album, I was thinking a lot about
relationships and particularly like neurodivergence.
(29:34):
And I wanted to be like, well, what if I'm not a lot?
What if I'm just enough? What if I'm like just enough of
as a person? And because a lot of the songs
reflected that, I thought it would be like a great name for
an album and I think would be like, I hoped would be a
positive affirmation for anyone who feels different or is
(29:56):
different or just doesn't fit the norm.
So I, that was kind of how I came up with the, the title and
some of the, some of the songs on it were just plain old like
reflective of like what I was like going through at the time
too. Like I, I was, I was writing a
(30:18):
lot about, like I was writing a lot about neurodivergence.
So I was going through getting assessed for autism.
So I was writing about that whole process as I was living
it, basically at the. So I was kind of doing that.
And then I was recording and kind of writing about it,
actually feeling a sense of like, am I allowed to write
(30:39):
about this? I don't know.
I don't want to steal from anyone else.
Can I do that? What if I'm like faking
something to write it because I want like, clout?
And I just kind of started to like have all these meta
thoughts about it, which turns out is actually like, yeah,
that's a very, like autistic thing to do too, ironically.
(31:00):
So a lot of it was about, a lot of it was about that.
And a lot of it was about like, I would say just like types of
social dynamics in general that I I always found a little odd
and strange. But also I specifically like,
wanted to write a lot of like, oh, what if I was able to write
(31:22):
some like love songs on this album that reflect how I've
fallen in love with other peoplebefore and like how I care for
people. Like, I have this line that I
really like that's like all the things that kids used to call
weird are the most beautiful things.
They should never be feared. And I always like really
(31:42):
resonated with that because I, Iam a weird adult.
I was a weird kid. And that was like how I made all
my friends, was collecting all of the weirdos, like in a good
way, like Pokémon. Collect the weirdos like Pokémon
(32:06):
is kind of my life advice for I guess finding like minded
friends is like find your weirdos and hold on to them.
I have. My friend who loves Pokémon who
loves. I really like the song Moonrise
Kingdom. Thank you.
It's just kind of about like howsometimes you don't have the
(32:26):
words to express, like you just want to like show somebody
something and see if they feel the same thing, right?
Yes, exactly. Yeah, just kind of a wonderful,
like, there's no other way to say what I'm saying other than
to give you an experience like this.
Do you like Wes Anderson quite alot?
Watch a lot of the films. Yeah, definitely.
(32:47):
I mean, I know he has a new one coming out, which I'm really
excited about. Moonrise Kingdom I like in
particular. And I think one of the reasons I
wrote that song and stuff is like, I, I, I often think that a
lot of Wes Anderson characters are like, I'm like, wow, this is
better autism representation than like actual, like this is a
(33:08):
show about autism kind of thing.So I, I feel like Moonrise
Kingdom in particular resonates with me and that they're, it's
about like two kids and I feel like they're very like serious
and intense. And I mean that in a really,
really good way because I, I immediately when I saw that I
(33:28):
was like, if that was me as a kid, that is me now.
I was so serious. And adults in my life also kind
of thought it was like precocious, that I was serious.
And I'm like, I am serious rightnow.
You think this is like precocious, but I feel things
really intensely and I love it. And it's killing me at the same
time. This is one of the great things
(33:49):
about his movies, is the perspective about children that
he has and the children being weird or different, being great
and fantastic and a part of the plot that should, you know,
should be honored, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And having like total certainty,like the two characters in that
movie are like, they know what they want out of life.
They're just like born too earlyalmost.
(34:11):
It's like they're too young, butthey know what they want, like
pretty concretely. And I think that was kind of
just like me from an early age. And I think that like, I think
that like maybe did scare some people, the fact that I got into
music so early and was like, oh,you're serious about this.
You're not like, I don't want tofind a backup job.
(34:32):
I don't want to do this. You're just like I locked on to
something and like laser focusedon it basically.
So are there any collaboration gigs or performances that were
really that steamed out to you and your memory something really
meaningful? Oh, my collaborative things.
(34:59):
Well, I don't know if this wouldcount as like a collaboration
thing, but it was a really cool like experience for me.
And that like maybe a year ago or a couple months ago, I was, I
was playing a gig by myself out in Somerville and like Boston
and musician Asura Furman just came to my show, which was like
(35:22):
just, I was so freaked out because she was so nice.
And she, I've admired her music for so long.
I admire her music so much and she's so great.
And like, that was a surreal experience because it's like
when someone is nervous to meet you and you don't feel like
you're really like known. I don't know.
(35:44):
And I was obviously terrified because I really respect her.
That was kind of cool. And I think actually also
another one that is like really cool for me was I played, I
played with this band, Nikki Luperrelli and the Grave
Diggers. And they played this whole,
(36:04):
they're like, they did a whole like vintage kind of swing show,
but almost sort of like postmodern jukebox where they
would do like a swing version ofa Billie Eilish tune or
something. And the whole show was like
cabaret themed and they had burlesque dancers and stuff.
But it was also like in Salem onHalloween.
(36:26):
And that was one of the most overwhelming, but mostly in a
good way, shows that I've ever played.
It was so fun and I I had to play a bunch of old like jazz
stuff, which meant I was sweating bullets on guitar the
whole time because that stuff isreally hard to play.
Welcome back to the Transit I. Got Athena.
(36:47):
I swear to God I hate when you do that.
I love that. Too, nobody knew until now that
there was a Segway. Well, here we are.
We're saying no, I had to do that.
I did. That's OK.
You know what? I'm gonna leave that in here
because I feel like we would, ifwe had a radio show in the
morning, be like, good morning. Welcome back to Carolina and
company. Company is Athena. 33 games in a
(37:09):
virtual liminal space coming to You Live 0.
My God, Olivia, you have a good voice.
I like that. Oh, thank you.
Yeah. Maybe you could do radiation?
When I do it, it's annoying. I get it OK.
I like the like, I, there's likethe two kind of 40s
transatlantic voices I've heard.There's like the guy who's that
(37:32):
very like abrasive quick talkingthing.
And then there's like the girl who has the like, no, I don't
want to go do a thing like that.Why would you make me go do it?
Don't make me do a thing like that.
And I'm just like, why do you always sound a little tipsy?
And I like it. Everybody was just a little bit
tipsy back then. Right, right.
(37:52):
Oh, I think I need to go find some quaaludes or something.
Oh my God, to be a drugged out 1950s housewife with no having
to worry about nothing but just anyway.
And then the guy is like, my game's busted, I need to find
some quaaludes. I'll be so numbed up on the
pills that I won't notice the pain of the of the of the pain
and the hitting and the whatnots.
(38:14):
Yeah, yeah. Oh God, so.
You know, how do you allow your art to make sense of the world?
You know, we live in some crazy times, and I feel like I, I'm
just going to say that every year for the rest of my life.
We live in some crazy times. Yeah.
Help you make sense of this. Yeah, I think sometimes,
(38:36):
sometimes I at least recently I've had some lines that are
kind of directly more overtly political, I guess and what
they're referencing. But a lot of the time it's not
even like an overt saying. A lot of the time it's that I am
determined to hold on to aspectsof joy.
(38:56):
Like you could pray the joy frommy cold dead hands.
Basically like I'm not going to let go of my joy and being like
a trans person and just existingthe way that I do.
So I try to find it at all costsand like try to capture it and
write about it in my songs and how it like feels in my body and
(39:19):
hoping that it can like provide some light to other people.
Kind of like I like to like I have a song that I was writing
about like the feeling of when I'm like really excited by
something and I feel like there's like lightning coming
out of my body. Like I can't even physically
contain it. And it's, I try to like
(39:40):
contextualize that as being a type of political thing, like
as, because sometimes I have this like duality where I feel
this sense of like, oh God, should I be writing songs about
this? Because I, is that going to make
people think I'm ignoring the political context of things?
And I'm definitely not. I'm definitely aware of it.
I'm always just like trying to find something that can be some
(40:03):
source of positivity that goes out there.
There's a need for all kinds of forms of resistance, and part of
it is like simulating a universewithout the weird shit that
we've got going. On right.
Escape. Some escapism is allowed, right?
Right. Honestly, like sometimes I'm
(40:25):
just like, OK what? What is weirder a song about?
Like I feel like sparkly autistic Joy or JD Vance, like
like that. That dude is far weirder than
anything I'm gonna go into in this so.
Yeah. But on the other hand, like,
that's an ephemeral thing. If we talk about, like, one
particular person, if you talk about, like the feeling, you
(40:47):
know, of that electricity or whatever.
Yeah, I've had plenty of people like describe like brains,
zappies, those kinds. Of things, yeah.
Carbonation is how I describe it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, no, those are more eternal.
The feelings that are in a body like the political environment
(41:07):
they live in is temporary and ephemeral, but it's important to
still acknowledge and yeah, strive to live through that and
contextualize your own meaning without having it being
overwritten by whatever fascistsare trying, no.
Absolutely. Your music definitely brings a
(41:28):
lot of of joy through that here.There's definitely a lot of
different variety through the album.
Do you have an upcoming album, project, anything like that
that's going on? I am working on working with a
recording company out in Boston that may possibly be helping me
(41:50):
Crowdsource, like run a crowdsourcing campaign for my
next album which is probably going to be more like just an
EP, like 5 or 6 songs. But I it's more just like
getting the songs recorded because I have all the songs
written like I have no shortage of material.
(42:10):
So I I would really like to get that out.
And it's definitely I can tell that like a lot of my new stuff
is definitely going in more of like AI think it still has.
It's definitely still has like Ithink there's joy within it and
stuff it. There are some songs that are
just plain old, like biting political songs because I just,
I needed to do that for me kind of.
(42:35):
So I'm, I'm hoping that I'm hoping that that connects with
people and I do get it out. Absolutely.
Well, you produce some of your work yourself.
You've got, I think I heard you say you use Logic Pro.
Is that right? Yeah, definitely.
I, I mean, right now I use my partner's Logic Pro because I, I
(42:56):
am in the process of like I needto get a laptop that can run
Logic Pro and then eventually get Logic Pro and all of that is
like a lot of money. Very true.
So once I can like afford to do that, definitely.
I've always worked with Fruity Loops as my digital audio
workshop is my DAW and they've got a free version out now for
(43:18):
Studio 24, so if you're interested in doing any
production here or collaboration, I can get you the
stems for the track if you wanted to try and layer
something on top of our theme song.
I mean, I would be totally down.I would love to do something
like that actually. That'd be great.
That would be incredible. I'd appreciate it.
(43:38):
Yeah, no problem. But I'm not sure if you're
familiar with necessarily that particular production studio.
So like if you know how to like produce the stems or if you need
any help, I can kind of advise on.
Let's see here. What would you say to younger
people, or even anybody really, who are just trying to find joy
(44:00):
in who they are in this world? What did you say to them?
Oh wow. Finding joy and who you are, I
guess like a big thing and a thing that I feel like I spend a
lot of time telling people that I know in my life is that that
(44:22):
thing that you're into that is like your special interest or
something that you're really focused on or really passionate
about is not embarrassing or something you should bury.
That is like of clearly a defining thing for you that you
should hold on to and will connect you to other people,
(44:43):
even if it doesn't seem like it will right now.
And I can say that because I have the data of my lived
experience to back that up in that I didn't always connect
with people right away with the things that I was into because I
was kind of always into things that it was harder to find other
kids that were into it. And sometimes it's harder to
find other adults that are into it, but you will.
(45:08):
And the whole like, I know when people are like are put yourself
out there. I know sometimes that can be
this like broad. I don't really know what that
means kind of thing, but I thinkjust keep trying is really,
really important. Even if it's, you know, some
people meet that with rejection.Keep trying because it's really
like people deserve to see it, Iwould say.
(45:30):
And it whatever that means for you is that means like your
identity, if that means you're passions or kind of both of
those things, I think that's really important to just keep
trying. I I really enjoyed I really
enjoyed this conversation today with you today, Olivia.
I really, I really have. And Athena, thank you always for
being here. I really, I really love having
(45:51):
you here. You're my favorite.
You shouldn't have favorites, Caroline.
Everybody's special. Well, they are.
That's why I say don't tell the others that I said.
You tell all the others, don't tell the others too, don't you?
No, only AJ. Do you get tired of people
bringing up the Neil Diamond song when you say my name is
(46:12):
Caroline? Do people do the whole like, oh
like the sweet da da da da? No, it's really funny actually,
because before I transition, I Ijust didn't even like that song
because like I never thought of.I just never like but but James
Taylor, Carolina in my mind. There you go.
Was the song. That's my, that's where my song
the name came from. Because that's the her.
Yeah. Anyway, the whole thing,
(46:32):
everybody on the show, Larry knows.
I've said it so many times. I love that.
I'm from the South Carolina ocean.
That's where I manically found myself.
Right. And accepted my job to display.
So that was exciting. Well, you know, if if anybody
and listening would like to participate and be on the show,
(46:54):
please e-mail us at transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
Again, that's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
And Athena, before we go, do youhave any final thoughts or
anything you'd like to share or ask?
Just some final questions for Olivia.
You could speak with your younger self prior to
(47:16):
transition. What would you tell them?
Your first instinct is pretty much always correct because I
think I had a tendency when I was younger and one more
closeted to have an instinct about how I felt about myself or
what I wanted to do or who I wasto shut that down and be like,
(47:38):
Oh, you that's you can't trust that, you know, that's it's
probably just an impulse. It's it's nothing.
I shouldn't pay attention to that.
You should. I would say that you know
yourself like a lot better than you think you do or like my
younger self like and sometimes possibly better than other some
(47:59):
other people in your life know you, even if they're a little
bit older than you and stuff. I think that I would have told
my younger self to trust that because it's it's the correct
one to just listen to it. Trust your instincts to listen
to yourself. Absolutely.
That's great advice. Thank you so much for your time.
(48:19):
Thank you for having me. You're both like just bundles of
joy. Oh my God.
Thank you, thank you, you're so welcome.
I again, like I said, I really, I really have enjoyed this time
and would love to have you come on again anytime you're you're
more than welcome. I would love our audience
listening. I'll have all of our links for
(48:41):
Olivia in the comments. But just in case, you can find
more of Olivia's work at olivianeed.com.
That's Olivia with nied.com. And you can find all of their
work and their music and all about them.
So again, thank you, Athena, forbeing here.
Olivia, thank you so much for being here.
(49:03):
And before we go, and what wouldyou like to leave our audience
with? As we depart here and carry on
for the rest of our week, what would you like to leave our
audience with? Sure.
I, I guess I would say that honestly, I mean, as a mantra I
keep for myself sort of is like find your glimmers and your
(49:25):
little sparkles that you can find even if they're very small
in each day, because that's what's getting me through this
right now. It's like I met a really cool
stray cat yesterday and it was such a small moment, but I like
kept it because I was like, thisis important.
This cat liked me and that is 1 tangible good thing I can hold
on to at least so find moments like that or like be open to
(49:49):
them. It's. 11:00 in the evening.
Probably the worst damn time crosses my feeling.
What am I feeling? My therapist told me I've got a
(50:14):
lot of inside, but I just want to sit right.
Sitting on the stop by. Maybe a man ain't got started.
A man, a grilling exercise, static.
Or maybe it's the radio I'm reading for too much psychology.
(50:47):
My brain and my body feel so disconnected, like they're new,
different centuries, but I can'tmake sense of how they feel.
But not where I want to bring. It's everything and nothing and
it's all my way and it's right in front of me.
It's falling in love completely.And this catastrophe.
(51:08):
It's 6:00 in the morning and I'mworking retail and I just don't
be well at all. I drink gas station coffee and
customers want me. They wonder if I am Oh, you're a
girl. So I lean on a counter and I put
(51:31):
on a. Mask I try.
To feel anything for me it's me.I just say how can I help you
with God? I don't get in no danger.
Say anything to make this bingo to win.
I want one to college then I graduated count into a world of
sodast and I don't give a sound change.
(51:59):
I'm rooting for two months psychology.
My brain and my body feel so disconnected, like they're in
different centuries, but I can'tmake sense of how I'm thinkable
to chill and not where I want tobe.
It's everything and nothing and it's all my way and it's right
(52:19):
in front of me. It's falling in love.
(52:54):
Now it's the weekend. Talking with my friend, trying
to compose a text message that Ican send.
There's an absence of tone. So watching the dots, we call
this connection, but we know that it's not.
Try to imagine I'm in your bed. Not in your bed.
It's just in my head. Oh, this isolation's all good
(53:19):
for the mind I can't do inside it's a black and light.
Maybe tonight in my dreams if I just believe I will be working
retail and you won't have to live.
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline.
And today I'm here with Oh my God, it's Athena.
Hi, Athena. Hi, well, welcome back to the
Trans Narrative podcast, everyone.
It's great to be here. It is, it is so good to have
you. Thank you for being here.
And Olivia. Olivia need our very special
guest today. Hello.
(00:21):
Hi, it's great to be here. This is so exciting.
Also, good to have you. So before we get started, a
little bit about Olivia. Olivia is a singer-songwriter
whose work is shaped by her experience as a queer, trans,
and neurodivergent artist. Olivia has been writing and
performing original music since she was nine years old.
Her debut Solar album Just Enough, released the last year,
(00:43):
dives into themes of radical joy, identity, neurodivergence
in the search for belonging. Olivia, it's so good to have
you. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me, I'm really excited about this.
So beautiful. Well, welcome back to the Trans
(01:08):
Narrative Podcast room. Today we have a very special
guest, Olivia need. Thank you so much for joining
us. Olivia, how are you doing today?
I'm doing really well actually. Yeah, I'm very excited.
I feel very, very, very bubbly and carbonated today that you,
you are both lovely, lovely people so.
Well, it's wonderful to join youin to get a chance to talk with
(01:30):
you. I've seen your Tik Toks and
that's kind of how I was introduced to like your music.
You're a very talented guitaristand singer and your, your songs
that you're right. I I just kind of want to get
started and talk about kind of like your influences and what
could you tell us about like when you first realized that
music would be your lifelong companion?
(01:51):
Oh, sure, definitely from a really early age for me
actually, because I have my bothof my parents play instruments.
So I kind of like from a young age, my dad would play guitar
and like piano around the house.And I always just wanted to be
(02:12):
around that from like some of myearliest memories or just
wanting to like be next to my dad and hear him like play
something. And I wanted to take guitar
lessons. It was all like self motivated
for me. There really wasn't any.
Like it wasn't like my parents were pushing me into anything.
They were honestly just wanted me to do what interested me.
(02:32):
But it was music because it was like surrounding me constantly.
So I kind of, it was kind of like from the earliest ages, I
think I was really like pushed into that, yeah.
Gotcha. Well, it just kind of an
instinct that was helped and guided by your parents having
(02:53):
some musical talent and some investment of their own into
that of like, what were some of the favorite songs you learned
to play with your? Parents.
Yeah. Oh, totally.
Well, a lot of it was stuff thatmy parents played for me that
like kind of was like early influences and stuff.
My mom was like, my mom got me really into like a lot of 70's
(03:16):
rock and stuff like Queen and Elvis Costello and people like
that. So that was like early stuff I
was hearing. And then my dad was like really
into like 60s like The Beach Boys.
And like I would listen to like early Bob Dylan and stuff like
that and like David Bowie and stuff, big influence in terms of
(03:36):
like music. But also just like that was kind
of like, that was like the one example I had when I was young
of like how queerness and music can intersect.
Like I didn't really have a lot.So for me that was like
something that's like, oh, I didn't know that was allowed.
Like you could, you could do that.
So yeah, it was kind of like stuff like that.
I, I actually, when I first started to play music myself and
(03:59):
I like, had learned a few chordsand stuff like that.
I for some reason really gravitated toward a lot of early
50s and 60s stuff because it waseasy to pick up and it was easy
to like, sing, and the melodies were really infectious.
So I think I was really attracted to stuff where I could
get almost like instant results or feel like I could do
(04:20):
something really quickly. Well, I can definitely hear like
that Elvis Costello kind of vibewith your approach to like
guitar playing and your lyricismdefinitely reflects on that kind
of internalized Bob Dylan kind of melody.
I kind of get notes of fish in in how you play.
(04:41):
Well, a little bit. Oh my God, yeah.
That's so funny because you mentioned that because my friend
Sam Shafray, who I put, he's an amazing mandolin player and he's
like a great friend of mine. He plays in a Like a Fish and
Grateful Dead like cover band, and I've played shows with him
where we've played a lot of fishsongs.
So that makes a lot of sense. OK.
(05:03):
OK. So, OK.
So before we go any further, you've said a lot of names.
So yes, I have to know I'm Dylan.
Favorite songs? Oh my God, wow that's a huge
catalog I love. It's not shelter from the storm
I don't want to hear. Oh my God.
I mean, honestly, the whole Blood on the Tracks album is
(05:24):
like it for me. I mean I love a lot of his work,
but like that whole album is like such a really interesting
lyrical album. Like there's so many even just
single lines that stand out for me.
Like the something there's some line about like a Corkscrew to
the heart or something on that. And that always really resonated
(05:47):
for me because that was just like a really visceral image.
So I love, I would say like, I don't know, Tangled Up in Blue
is great. Idiot Wind is great if I feel
like enraged by political things, which is kind of often
lately. So oh gosh.
Masters of War I think is 1 because he just tells people to
(06:08):
go drop dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What? About what?
About Fish? Who what what?
What songs do you like from Fish?
Because Fish is a band that's you either like him or you just
don't. Yeah, yeah.
Well, actually for me, I just interms of like fish, I actually
think that, like, Trey Anastaciois really underrated as a
guitarist and is often not, you know, mentioned in terms of like
(06:31):
some of the most interesting, I think even not even terms of
technical stuff. But I really like his guitar
tone that he achieves. It's very unique.
It's very like compressed, but like kind of rich.
So yeah. Yeah.
I actually, it's funny. There's this song that I play
with my friend Sam that is really funny because the lyrics
(06:51):
are just kind of goofy and ridiculous and full of innuendo.
But I really like Meat Stick by Fish if you're familiar with
that song. I love, that's why I like I
really there was one song that they did.
It was like the wheels or it waslike it wasn't the wheels on the
bus go round, but it was it was talking about a car or something
like I don't even remember. But the way that they do lyrics
(07:12):
is so fascinating. One of my favorite songs is
Farmhouse. I like that song and I really
appreciated their Fuego album I think, which came out in 2014.
Fuego. So listen to that, because I
haven't actually really listenedto a lot of their, like, studio
albums. Like my friend Sam is always the
(07:33):
type of person who's like, oh, let's listen to this live
concert of Fish from like 29 or 2009 or something.
And I'm like, oh, OK. Sometimes it's the best way to
approach a band, too. Like Fish isn't necessarily like
a studio recording kind of band.They tour so much that like,
yeah, their sound is what you see in those live shows.
(07:53):
Well, they probably picked up one where the Grateful Dead, you
know, had had taken off because what I really liked about the
Grateful Dead was like within the, the, the, the band, they
would have like sets, like keys or notes that they would all
like. They all would know that they
would all know those notes and they would know that if they
hear each other playing that note, that would mean for them
(08:14):
to shift to the next like like sound or the next jam.
And so like so they would freestyle jamming, but they
would use certain tones and keysto identify with each other
where to go within the next likejam.
Even though it was freestyling like they communicated through
the sound, which I thought was so fascinating.
I think it's fascinating that like the Grateful Dad and Jerry
(08:36):
Garcia and people like that wereactually were really influenced
by like jazz artists like John Coltrane and people like that.
Not even in terms of like their sound, because it was kind of
really different, a really different sound.
But in terms of like, their approach of having a song form
that had all this room for improvisation, like the song
(08:57):
form was roughly the same, but what you did in that space was
different, like every show basically.
That's why I like about a lot ofpeople say covers, covers are
they're, they don't like covers,but I think covers are
fascinating because a lot of times you get to hear the
generational differences and like the, the, the learning and
how far you've come with sound. And so I think it's done in
(09:19):
honor of, of the sound before. I think they come out really
beautiful. Yeah, I agree 100%.
There are definitely some just plain cash grabs out there, like
our band can't cut it. We have to find something that
will make people come to our shows to buy our albums.
Yeah, I mean, I always like my mom has this joke where like I
(09:40):
have so much original material at this point that I've done
whole like original shows. But sometimes I'll just throw
like I don't know why, but if I'm with like a slightly older
crowd, people go nuts over me and Julio.
People love Paul Simon, like certain generations and Paul
Simons great and stuff. But I think it's really funny
where my mom, if the show is just like kind of not going
(10:03):
great and like my mom happens tobe there, she'll be like, give
them the Julio. They do the Julio.
They want that. And I'm like, OK.
It's a, it's a balance. You have to learn how to like,
engage with the audience from where they are in this modern
distracted world. Like I went to a show that was
like 1/2 cover band and like, well, half of the songs they
(10:23):
play were covers and half was their own original material.
Because they can get a lot more people out that way just by
saying, oh, this is a pop punk show, We're going to do a 90s
and 2000 revival. And then half of the people,
they were complaining, well, whydon't they play more of their
original songs? And half of them were going
like, why don't they play more of the?
Stuff from 2. 1000 they brought us in here for the stuff that we
(10:44):
were. It's such a balance and ethical
too. You have to really feed to them.
Yeah, no, absolutely. So I want to, I feel like I
derail a little bit. I'm sorry.
It's OK. I I want to ask you about your
writing process. And before I say that, I'd like
to preface with, well, before that, I do have a question.
(11:06):
What's one of your favorite? Well, who's one of your favorite
bands out there? Like if you had to like if you
were like, if it was a like a life or death situation and they
were like, hey, you got to choose to survive, who would you
choose? Favorite and specifically.
Artist Yeah, well, let's go withband.
Sure. OK.
(11:26):
Specifically, favorite band I got to like, I got to think
about that for a second because that's like, that's a lot of
like a big Rolodex coaster. Jeez, a favorite band?
Let me think, who would I go with?
Sam. Who's your favorite band?
(11:48):
It. Like either varies from
day-to-day, but like some of my life transforming bands are like
Radiohead. Oh, OK.
I mean, I, I guess like, I'm well, OK, yeah, I think I know
what I would say. I I would probably pick The
Beach Boys for me, honestly, just in terms of like I could go
(12:11):
off on a whole thing about BrianWilson, which I will save so I
don't go down that tangent, but I'm obsessed with like Pet
Sounds and their productions, such a.
Great album, I love that. It's amazing.
It's so good. I have so many.
There's so many things I can sayabout why it's good, but it's
just, it's really great. It's perfection.
Tell me, have you heard Janelle Monae's dirty computer?
(12:34):
Yes, I think so because I think Brian Wilson is on that somehow.
He he's the one doing the the vocals on that track just as it
introduces that home. I love like her her work
entirely her full catalog Janelle Monáe.
But that's yeah, that that startof that very deep rich speech
boys vocal is just so it's so uncommon to hear.
I know. My favorite band is my favorite
(12:58):
band is Sugarland. You wouldn't believe that, but
it's a country band, but it's not really country if you really
listen to them. So, yeah, yeah.
You know, what I really like about Pet Sounds is it coincides
at that time with the with Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart
Club band. And what I thought was so
interesting, especially with TheBeach Boys and The Beatles is
like, if you, if you observe them from, you know, a
(13:20):
historical standpoint, it's really fascinating to launch
like how psychedelics come into the play.
And Bob Dylan had a lot to do with that as well, because Bob
Dylan was the one that gave The Beatles their, their, their
first doses of, of, of, you know, weed and, you know, LSD.
And so, and it was just so interesting to listen.
And I feel like Pet Sounds is that moment for The Beach Boys
(13:42):
where like, you know, psychedelic and may they may not
have done it themselves, but like the influences of that
around them, like definitely played into that.
And like, God only knows. I really like that song.
That's a really. Pretty.
Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, I think like Paul
McCartney said it was one of hisfavorite songs of all time
because I think that, like, a lot of that, when people talk
(14:03):
about Pet sounds versus SergeantPepper's and stuff, I think it's
often like, framed as this like competition in the sense of
like, I need to beat you. But I feel like it, from what
I've read, it was not that at all.
It was more just like, I just, Ifeel inspired by this.
I need to create something in a similar direction or my own
version of what this is. There's.
(14:26):
Yeah. Honestly, that's always so cool
to me. I always find that so
fascinating. It's sort of just a moment when
studio recording became more thepoint of the music than live
shows. Like The Beatles were like, OK,
we've made enough money off of of our crowds to spend so much
time in the studio to make these, you know, outlandish to
(14:47):
the time. Yeah, these sounds.
And really, I think that's kind of what it became is like they
were just kind of the first people to get enough money to
spend enough time in the studio to really innovate from an
amateur perspective. Yeah.
Sound engineers who had spent time going through college were
told for four years that music goes like this.
(15:07):
Yeah. Can't deviate from that or it
might break the machine or it might, you know, cause weird
effects or whatever. So, so they just got a chance to
poke around at the machine that no, nobody else really had had a
chance to from like a young, young age to they were, you
know, musicians like that and kind of tampering with the sound
as they went along. Yeah, yeah, just the whole like
(15:30):
playing the studio as its own separate instrument kind of
thing. So can you, can you, can you
tell us about the moment when you realize that music would be
like a lifelong companion and this kind of thing that you
wanted to pursue? It's like a defining moment for
(15:51):
me of that. Yeah, I guess I could actually.
I think a big defining moment for me was like, and this is
like, I almost like say this in a way that almost sounds like
too cavalier sometimes because I'm so used to the fact that
(16:13):
like, hey, it's not, yeah, it's not everybody's experience that
they like, you know, play in front of like 800 people when
they're like 10. But I did.
And that was an experience that I played at AI, played at a
ukulele festival in the UK, which is such a weirdly specific
thing, but I did. And that was a definitely a
(16:37):
defining moment where I played with this band that were the
band that was kind of backing upeveryone else playing at the
same festival. And we just worked out a song
that we wanted to do in the dressing room before and did it.
And I think it gave me this realization of like, oh, I have
(17:00):
this language that allows me to feel connected to other people
in a way that words kind of can't.
Like I feel like I have this shared language of music in a
way to meet people and connect with other people.
That works for me. And that was when I felt like,
well, why would I want to, like,let that go or not pursue that?
If this is working for me and this feels right I should be
(17:23):
doing that, then it probably is,right?
I felt that, I feel that way, I felt that way with when I
transitioned, I felt like, you know, I don't think this is
right, but it felt I didn't question.
It was one of the first times that I, I didn't question myself
And, and that and I, and I, and I resonate with that.
Speaking of what has been, you know, as you delved into, you
(17:47):
know, expanding in your journey with with music and, and, you
know, crafting that, how did your relationship with gender
play a role in that? Yeah, totally.
Well, interestingly, I feel likeI have that that very
quintessential like trans experience of having like bits
(18:08):
of coming to realize my trans identity before I knew what that
was like sprinkled throughout many, many different moments in
my life. But I didn't necessarily have
the words for that. I just kind of felt that there
was something like different going on.
And one of those like early moments that I remember was I
(18:30):
was like very young. I was like 9 and 10.
And I would play like little shows at like local restaurants
in my hometown and places like that and would do would cover
songs by female artists and, andnot like flip the pronouns in
the songs. Like I've heard a lot of artists
(18:50):
like they'll switch he to she orthey'll switch like she to he or
something like that. And I just didn't, I just didn't
do it and I refused to do it. And a lot of the time people
would ask me about why and I would give them some kind of
answer about like artistic integrity or something of the
song. But that was like a bullshit
answer. Honestly.
It was like it was the real reason was because I like wanted
(19:13):
to see myself in the perspectiveof the character in the song
because I felt like the character in the song,
especially if it was a song about like a girl or a woman or
something. So that was like, and I wasn't
exactly, I didn't have the wordsto articulate that.
It was just something I was doing at the time.
And then I just sort of, I thinkI remember meeting a girl in my
(19:39):
actually in my high school who is trans.
I went to the high school in upstate New York, which in like
a weirdly conservative part of upstate New York, which does
exist. And like I remember meeting a
girl in my high school who was trans and was like, I want to be
around this person all the time.And I don't know why that is.
(20:00):
I just remember being like, I want to be your.
I need to be your friend. Like I need this to happen.
And kind of softly came out in like middle to high school, but
I think. I think a lot of people did in
(20:21):
my life, didn't really take it seriously or didn't really think
I was being genuine about it. I think they thought I was kind
of joking around and stuff, so it didn't really like.
I didn't actually start taking HRT or pursuing anything like
that until college. Even though I came out kind of
softly a lot before that. I didn't really start to connect
(20:44):
more of the dots in a solid way until much later, I would say.
So it's something that I always felt like it pulled me through
the music that I made. Like it was like I I wrote a
song. Like I wrote so many songs just
about hating being a man, like the moment I hit puberty.
(21:07):
Right, right. Yeah.
So like, it kind of just like sublimated itself for me cuz
like, I was very much in a conservative area.
Everyone went to Christian high school.
It took me until I was like 25 or 27 before I could really
acknowledge a lot of the deep internal truths about myself
that we're pretty much plainly lying on the surface right
(21:28):
about, you know, 15 or so. Yeah, that happens, yeah.
Yeah, it, it, it's something that it's wonderful to see so
much less resistance for, for young people and to, to see them
able to live their full lives through this experience.
It's it's a kind of a unique thing for, for older people who
(21:52):
like just kind of saw people whocame out as trans disappear from
their lives. It's amazing to see you grow up
in this environment and and provide some, some great new
music to to go along with that. How how is that intersected with
your your songwriting? Like say from your album, do you
have any specific lyrics you'd point to?
(22:13):
Oh totally. I I have this.
I have a lot of lines in my album that I would, I would
literally say the specific line is the trifecta of like
friendsness and neurodivergence within the same line.
And I have a lot of lines in my album that are that.
And there's like one that I think about a lot where I was
(22:35):
talking about working a terrible, like retail job that I
hated, where I was like, I lean on a counter and I put on a mask
and I try to feel anything from each menial task.
And then I had this line that was like where I, I drink gas
station coffee and customers taunt me.
They wonder if I am a boy or a girl and I have like lines like
(22:58):
that where it wasn't even like someone literally asked me that.
I just like did a summary of allthese things that people would
like. Things that people who don't
know any better just ask, straight up ask trans people.
Like I had worked at a retail job and it was like, you know,
9:00 in the morning and someone was like, what surgeries have
(23:21):
you had? And I'm like, it's 9:00 AM.
Like, come on, give me a break. It's like, what if I walked into
your house and was like, you know, hey, what are your medical
records like? And it was 9 in the morning or
something. Man, Yeah, a lot of presumption
(23:42):
that can happen in those like, especially like retail
interactions. Yeah.
So like, what have you been doing for life?
Can you tell us about like how your career has progressed, what
you've? Yeah, yeah, totally.
Well, I did a last year, I did AI did that album that I was
(24:03):
talking about and I, I did a Kickstarter campaign to like
raise the money for the album, which was really cool.
And I had had some prior experience when I was younger
being like in an actual studio environment.
But I hadn't had a lot like where I actually am doing all of
the parts and being part of the whole mixing and mastering and
(24:24):
all of the other stages that go with producing an album.
So that was really cool. And it's really, I have like
such a weird, I haven't figured out how to combine them yet
because I sort of have this day job and day-to-day life thing
where I do I'm like a direct support professional.
(24:44):
So I just work with like other autistic people and I help with
like just doing appointments or phone calls or things that are
just not super accessible to anyone, particularly other
autistic people. And when I'm not doing that, I'm
trying to make music work for more of a full time thing.
(25:05):
And that is proving to be a little difficult, but I've been
getting more traction within thelast couple of years alone than
I ever had. I think because of honestly,
social media and weirdly TikTok has been this massive boost to
(25:26):
my music and stuff was, was getting on that.
So I think I, I, I don't know, like where it will ultimately
end up, but I would love to be able to like just put me in a
studio and just let me make stuff all the time and be able
to live on that. Like that's all I really want to
do. And that's all I keep coming
back to, which is awesome and horrible because it like makes
(25:50):
no money. It's like the one thing my brain
keeps coming back to that I loveto do and I can sustain is
really next to impossible to sustain unless you have a lot of
money to begin with to kind of just throw at it, basically,
yeah. If you, if you don't have the
time to put into it as a full time job, you can't get the same
(26:11):
kind of results as people who dowho have the money to sustain
themselves. Otherwise, it's it's kind of an
imperial task and until you've got some establishments or until
you make some connections withinthe world, definitely, yeah, it
definitely does come down to thekind of putting it a priority
like a job. It's something for me that's
just almost always been an expensive hobby and habit really
(26:34):
more. Yeah, yeah.
Like I, I spend so much time doing it, but it brings me
enough joy that it's not a job. So that's kind of what you'd
want to put that as a job. But like then you have to plug
into it if it does become your job.
And then your 40 hours a week islike managing other people's
music and trying to tell them expectations are maybe
(26:55):
unrealistic and we can change things up.
I think the thing that I realized that has helped me
within the last few years is if you're offered an opportunity,
even if it's seems kind of over your head, just say yes to
anything. Basically, even if it it seems
out of reach, I I've said yes tothings, not knowing I can do the
(27:17):
show before like, oh, can you play bass?
And I like, I guess technically,Oh, can you play bass with my
band for this whole show and we'll pay you for it.
I just said yes to something like that, not knowing I could
do if I could do it or not, because I'm like, I will damn
well learned. That's right.
That's what I said. That's what I tell my I tell
just listen. Just just do it and just say yes
(27:38):
and then figure it out. After.
Yeah, Spider with podcasting. I saw you.
Yeah, just. Yeah, have an interest and try
it. So tell us about let's go deeper
into just the math. I want to know more sure about
that, the inspiration and the journey behind the album.
Totally. Sure about the albums like.
(28:05):
Like how did that, how did it come to life?
How did you, where was the, where was the inspiration for
it? How did it blossom into being?
Totally. So, well, I guess I could start
with the name just enough was I wanted to call the album
something that was the flip sideof being called like too much or
(28:29):
feeling like you're too much. Because I had had an experience
recently or, or when I was writing the album where I had
confessed to someone in my life at the time that I had like
feelings for them and that I I like felt for them in a romantic
way. And it inspired a whole other
song on the album. But I, I remember laying that
(28:53):
out there and like kind of rehearsing it in the car on the
way and thinking about how I would say it to the person.
And I remember them saying, you know what, you're kind of a lot
sometimes. And.
Hear that all the time. And I literally, I had this
moment of like, oh, OK. And then I left the place I was
at. I just drove home with like,
(29:13):
mascara running kind of like tears.
Because it's like hard to be told you're a lot when you're
just being honest or direct. And I think that like when I
thought about that album, I was thinking a lot about
relationships and particularly like neurodivergence.
(29:34):
And I wanted to be like, well, what if I'm not a lot?
What if I'm just enough? What if I'm like just enough of
as a person? And because a lot of the songs
reflected that, I thought it would be like a great name for
an album and I think would be like, I hoped would be a
positive affirmation for anyone who feels different or is
(29:56):
different or just doesn't fit the norm.
So I, that was kind of how I came up with the, the title and
some of the, some of the songs on it were just plain old like
reflective of like what I was like going through at the time
too. Like I, I was, I was writing a
(30:18):
lot about, like I was writing a lot about neurodivergence.
So I was going through getting assessed for autism.
So I was writing about that whole process as I was living
it, basically at the. So I was kind of doing that.
And then I was recording and kind of writing about it,
actually feeling a sense of like, am I allowed to write
(30:39):
about this? I don't know.
I don't want to steal from anyone else.
Can I do that? What if I'm like faking
something to write it because I want like, clout?
And I just kind of started to like have all these meta
thoughts about it, which turns out is actually like, yeah,
that's a very, like autistic thing to do too, ironically.
(31:00):
So a lot of it was about, a lot of it was about that.
And a lot of it was about like, I would say just like types of
social dynamics in general that I I always found a little odd
and strange. But also I specifically like,
wanted to write a lot of like, oh, what if I was able to write
(31:22):
some like love songs on this album that reflect how I've
fallen in love with other peoplebefore and like how I care for
people. Like, I have this line that I
really like that's like all the things that kids used to call
weird are the most beautiful things.
They should never be feared. And I always like really
(31:42):
resonated with that because I, Iam a weird adult.
I was a weird kid. And that was like how I made all
my friends, was collecting all of the weirdos, like in a good
way, like Pokémon. Collect the weirdos like Pokémon
(32:06):
is kind of my life advice for I guess finding like minded
friends is like find your weirdos and hold on to them.
I have. My friend who loves Pokémon who
loves. I really like the song Moonrise
Kingdom. Thank you.
It's just kind of about like howsometimes you don't have the
(32:26):
words to express, like you just want to like show somebody
something and see if they feel the same thing, right?
Yes, exactly. Yeah, just kind of a wonderful,
like, there's no other way to say what I'm saying other than
to give you an experience like this.
Do you like Wes Anderson quite alot?
Watch a lot of the films. Yeah, definitely.
(32:47):
I mean, I know he has a new one coming out, which I'm really
excited about. Moonrise Kingdom I like in
particular. And I think one of the reasons I
wrote that song and stuff is like, I, I, I often think that a
lot of Wes Anderson characters are like, I'm like, wow, this is
better autism representation than like actual, like this is a
(33:08):
show about autism kind of thing.So I, I feel like Moonrise
Kingdom in particular resonates with me and that they're, it's
about like two kids and I feel like they're very like serious
and intense. And I mean that in a really,
really good way because I, I immediately when I saw that I
(33:28):
was like, if that was me as a kid, that is me now.
I was so serious. And adults in my life also kind
of thought it was like precocious, that I was serious.
And I'm like, I am serious rightnow.
You think this is like precocious, but I feel things
really intensely and I love it. And it's killing me at the same
time. This is one of the great things
(33:49):
about his movies, is the perspective about children that
he has and the children being weird or different, being great
and fantastic and a part of the plot that should, you know,
should be honored, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And having like total certainty,like the two characters in that
movie are like, they know what they want out of life.
They're just like born too earlyalmost.
(34:11):
It's like they're too young, butthey know what they want, like
pretty concretely. And I think that was kind of
just like me from an early age. And I think that like, I think
that like maybe did scare some people, the fact that I got into
music so early and was like, oh,you're serious about this.
You're not like, I don't want tofind a backup job.
(34:32):
I don't want to do this. You're just like I locked on to
something and like laser focusedon it basically.
So are there any collaboration gigs or performances that were
really that steamed out to you and your memory something really
meaningful? Oh, my collaborative things.
(34:59):
Well, I don't know if this wouldcount as like a collaboration
thing, but it was a really cool like experience for me.
And that like maybe a year ago or a couple months ago, I was, I
was playing a gig by myself out in Somerville and like Boston
and musician Asura Furman just came to my show, which was like
(35:22):
just, I was so freaked out because she was so nice.
And she, I've admired her music for so long.
I admire her music so much and she's so great.
And like, that was a surreal experience because it's like
when someone is nervous to meet you and you don't feel like
you're really like known. I don't know.
(35:44):
And I was obviously terrified because I really respect her.
That was kind of cool. And I think actually also
another one that is like really cool for me was I played, I
played with this band, Nikki Luperrelli and the Grave
Diggers. And they played this whole,
(36:04):
they're like, they did a whole like vintage kind of swing show,
but almost sort of like postmodern jukebox where they
would do like a swing version ofa Billie Eilish tune or
something. And the whole show was like
cabaret themed and they had burlesque dancers and stuff.
But it was also like in Salem onHalloween.
(36:26):
And that was one of the most overwhelming, but mostly in a
good way, shows that I've ever played.
It was so fun and I I had to play a bunch of old like jazz
stuff, which meant I was sweating bullets on guitar the
whole time because that stuff isreally hard to play.
Welcome back to the Transit I. Got Athena.
(36:47):
I swear to God I hate when you do that.
I love that. Too, nobody knew until now that
there was a Segway. Well, here we are.
We're saying no, I had to do that.
I did. That's OK.
You know what? I'm gonna leave that in here
because I feel like we would, ifwe had a radio show in the
morning, be like, good morning. Welcome back to Carolina and
company. Company is Athena. 33 games in a
(37:09):
virtual liminal space coming to You Live 0.
My God, Olivia, you have a good voice.
I like that. Oh, thank you.
Yeah. Maybe you could do radiation?
When I do it, it's annoying. I get it OK.
I like the like, I, there's likethe two kind of 40s
transatlantic voices I've heard.There's like the guy who's that
(37:32):
very like abrasive quick talkingthing.
And then there's like the girl who has the like, no, I don't
want to go do a thing like that.Why would you make me go do it?
Don't make me do a thing like that.
And I'm just like, why do you always sound a little tipsy?
And I like it. Everybody was just a little bit
tipsy back then. Right, right.
(37:52):
Oh, I think I need to go find some quaaludes or something.
Oh my God, to be a drugged out 1950s housewife with no having
to worry about nothing but just anyway.
And then the guy is like, my game's busted, I need to find
some quaaludes. I'll be so numbed up on the
pills that I won't notice the pain of the of the of the pain
and the hitting and the whatnots.
(38:14):
Yeah, yeah. Oh God, so.
You know, how do you allow your art to make sense of the world?
You know, we live in some crazy times, and I feel like I, I'm
just going to say that every year for the rest of my life.
We live in some crazy times. Yeah.
Help you make sense of this. Yeah, I think sometimes,
(38:36):
sometimes I at least recently I've had some lines that are
kind of directly more overtly political, I guess and what
they're referencing. But a lot of the time it's not
even like an overt saying. A lot of the time it's that I am
determined to hold on to aspectsof joy.
(38:56):
Like you could pray the joy frommy cold dead hands.
Basically like I'm not going to let go of my joy and being like
a trans person and just existingthe way that I do.
So I try to find it at all costsand like try to capture it and
write about it in my songs and how it like feels in my body and
(39:19):
hoping that it can like provide some light to other people.
Kind of like I like to like I have a song that I was writing
about like the feeling of when I'm like really excited by
something and I feel like there's like lightning coming
out of my body. Like I can't even physically
contain it. And it's, I try to like
(39:40):
contextualize that as being a type of political thing, like
as, because sometimes I have this like duality where I feel
this sense of like, oh God, should I be writing songs about
this? Because I, is that going to make
people think I'm ignoring the political context of things?
And I'm definitely not. I'm definitely aware of it.
I'm always just like trying to find something that can be some
(40:03):
source of positivity that goes out there.
There's a need for all kinds of forms of resistance, and part of
it is like simulating a universewithout the weird shit that
we've got going. On right.
Escape. Some escapism is allowed, right?
Right. Honestly, like sometimes I'm
(40:25):
just like, OK what? What is weirder a song about?
Like I feel like sparkly autistic Joy or JD Vance, like
like that. That dude is far weirder than
anything I'm gonna go into in this so.
Yeah. But on the other hand, like,
that's an ephemeral thing. If we talk about, like, one
particular person, if you talk about, like the feeling, you
(40:47):
know, of that electricity or whatever.
Yeah, I've had plenty of people like describe like brains,
zappies, those kinds. Of things, yeah.
Carbonation is how I describe it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, no, those are more eternal.
The feelings that are in a body like the political environment
(41:07):
they live in is temporary and ephemeral, but it's important to
still acknowledge and yeah, strive to live through that and
contextualize your own meaning without having it being
overwritten by whatever fascistsare trying, no.
Absolutely. Your music definitely brings a
(41:28):
lot of of joy through that here.There's definitely a lot of
different variety through the album.
Do you have an upcoming album, project, anything like that
that's going on? I am working on working with a
recording company out in Boston that may possibly be helping me
(41:50):
Crowdsource, like run a crowdsourcing campaign for my
next album which is probably going to be more like just an
EP, like 5 or 6 songs. But I it's more just like
getting the songs recorded because I have all the songs
written like I have no shortage of material.
(42:10):
So I I would really like to get that out.
And it's definitely I can tell that like a lot of my new stuff
is definitely going in more of like AI think it still has.
It's definitely still has like Ithink there's joy within it and
stuff it. There are some songs that are
just plain old, like biting political songs because I just,
I needed to do that for me kind of.
(42:35):
So I'm, I'm hoping that I'm hoping that that connects with
people and I do get it out. Absolutely.
Well, you produce some of your work yourself.
You've got, I think I heard you say you use Logic Pro.
Is that right? Yeah, definitely.
I, I mean, right now I use my partner's Logic Pro because I, I
(42:56):
am in the process of like I needto get a laptop that can run
Logic Pro and then eventually get Logic Pro and all of that is
like a lot of money. Very true.
So once I can like afford to do that, definitely.
I've always worked with Fruity Loops as my digital audio
workshop is my DAW and they've got a free version out now for
(43:18):
Studio 24, so if you're interested in doing any
production here or collaboration, I can get you the
stems for the track if you wanted to try and layer
something on top of our theme song.
I mean, I would be totally down.I would love to do something
like that actually. That'd be great.
That would be incredible. I'd appreciate it.
(43:38):
Yeah, no problem. But I'm not sure if you're
familiar with necessarily that particular production studio.
So like if you know how to like produce the stems or if you need
any help, I can kind of advise on.
Let's see here. What would you say to younger
people, or even anybody really, who are just trying to find joy
(44:00):
in who they are in this world? What did you say to them?
Oh wow. Finding joy and who you are, I
guess like a big thing and a thing that I feel like I spend a
lot of time telling people that I know in my life is that that
(44:22):
thing that you're into that is like your special interest or
something that you're really focused on or really passionate
about is not embarrassing or something you should bury.
That is like of clearly a defining thing for you that you
should hold on to and will connect you to other people,
(44:43):
even if it doesn't seem like it will right now.
And I can say that because I have the data of my lived
experience to back that up in that I didn't always connect
with people right away with the things that I was into because I
was kind of always into things that it was harder to find other
kids that were into it. And sometimes it's harder to
find other adults that are into it, but you will.
(45:08):
And the whole like, I know when people are like are put yourself
out there. I know sometimes that can be
this like broad. I don't really know what that
means kind of thing, but I thinkjust keep trying is really,
really important. Even if it's, you know, some
people meet that with rejection.Keep trying because it's really
like people deserve to see it, Iwould say.
(45:30):
And it whatever that means for you is that means like your
identity, if that means you're passions or kind of both of
those things, I think that's really important to just keep
trying. I I really enjoyed I really
enjoyed this conversation today with you today, Olivia.
I really, I really have. And Athena, thank you always for
being here. I really, I really love having
(45:51):
you here. You're my favorite.
You shouldn't have favorites, Caroline.
Everybody's special. Well, they are.
That's why I say don't tell the others that I said.
You tell all the others, don't tell the others too, don't you?
No, only AJ. Do you get tired of people
bringing up the Neil Diamond song when you say my name is
(46:12):
Caroline? Do people do the whole like, oh
like the sweet da da da da? No, it's really funny actually,
because before I transition, I Ijust didn't even like that song
because like I never thought of.I just never like but but James
Taylor, Carolina in my mind. There you go.
Was the song. That's my, that's where my song
the name came from. Because that's the her.
Yeah. Anyway, the whole thing,
(46:32):
everybody on the show, Larry knows.
I've said it so many times. I love that.
I'm from the South Carolina ocean.
That's where I manically found myself.
Right. And accepted my job to display.
So that was exciting. Well, you know, if if anybody
and listening would like to participate and be on the show,
(46:54):
please e-mail us at transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
Again, that's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
And Athena, before we go, do youhave any final thoughts or
anything you'd like to share or ask?
Just some final questions for Olivia.
You could speak with your younger self prior to
(47:16):
transition. What would you tell them?
Your first instinct is pretty much always correct because I
think I had a tendency when I was younger and one more
closeted to have an instinct about how I felt about myself or
what I wanted to do or who I wasto shut that down and be like,
(47:38):
Oh, you that's you can't trust that, you know, that's it's
probably just an impulse. It's it's nothing.
I shouldn't pay attention to that.
You should. I would say that you know
yourself like a lot better than you think you do or like my
younger self like and sometimes possibly better than other some
(47:59):
other people in your life know you, even if they're a little
bit older than you and stuff. I think that I would have told
my younger self to trust that because it's it's the correct
one to just listen to it. Trust your instincts to listen
to yourself. Absolutely.
That's great advice. Thank you so much for your time.
(48:19):
Thank you for having me. You're both like just bundles of
joy. Oh my God.
Thank you, thank you, you're so welcome.
I again, like I said, I really, I really have enjoyed this time
and would love to have you come on again anytime you're you're
more than welcome. I would love our audience
listening. I'll have all of our links for
(48:41):
Olivia in the comments. But just in case, you can find
more of Olivia's work at olivianeed.com.
That's Olivia with nied.com. And you can find all of their
work and their music and all about them.
So again, thank you, Athena, forbeing here.
Olivia, thank you so much for being here.
(49:03):
And before we go, and what wouldyou like to leave our audience
with? As we depart here and carry on
for the rest of our week, what would you like to leave our
audience with? Sure.
I, I guess I would say that honestly, I mean, as a mantra I
keep for myself sort of is like find your glimmers and your
(49:25):
little sparkles that you can find even if they're very small
in each day, because that's what's getting me through this
right now. It's like I met a really cool
stray cat yesterday and it was such a small moment, but I like
kept it because I was like, thisis important.
This cat liked me and that is 1 tangible good thing I can hold
on to at least so find moments like that or like be open to
(49:49):
them. It's. 11:00 in the evening.
Probably the worst damn time crosses my feeling.
What am I feeling? My therapist told me I've got a
(50:14):
lot of inside, but I just want to sit right.
Sitting on the stop by. Maybe a man ain't got started.
A man, a grilling exercise, static.
Or maybe it's the radio I'm reading for too much psychology.
(50:47):
My brain and my body feel so disconnected, like they're new,
different centuries, but I can'tmake sense of how they feel.
But not where I want to bring. It's everything and nothing and
it's all my way and it's right in front of me.
It's falling in love completely.And this catastrophe.
(51:08):
It's 6:00 in the morning and I'mworking retail and I just don't
be well at all. I drink gas station coffee and
customers want me. They wonder if I am Oh, you're a
girl. So I lean on a counter and I put
(51:31):
on a. Mask I try.
To feel anything for me it's me.I just say how can I help you
with God? I don't get in no danger.
Say anything to make this bingo to win.
I want one to college then I graduated count into a world of
sodast and I don't give a sound change.
(51:59):
I'm rooting for two months psychology.
My brain and my body feel so disconnected, like they're in
different centuries, but I can'tmake sense of how I'm thinkable
to chill and not where I want tobe.
It's everything and nothing and it's all my way and it's right
(52:19):
in front of me. It's falling in love.
(52:54):
Now it's the weekend. Talking with my friend, trying
to compose a text message that Ican send.
There's an absence of tone. So watching the dots, we call
this connection, but we know that it's not.
Try to imagine I'm in your bed. Not in your bed.
It's just in my head. Oh, this isolation's all good
(53:19):
for the mind I can't do inside it's a black and light.
Maybe tonight in my dreams if I just believe I will be working
retail and you won't have to live.
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