What Is Freedom Consciousness? With Peter Fzero

Peter Fzero is a tattoo artist, designer, and decade-long Bitcoiner. He is part of the 2140 Art Collective which includes over 50 artists exploring themes of Bitcoin / privacy / freedom / and consciousness through art.

Peter's website - https://fzero.pro/

2140 Art Collective - https://2140.wtf/

Ivy Lumi - https://ivylumi.com/

SUPPORT ME - https://www.thetransformationofvalue.com/support

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Yes. And philosophy is all about
that, right? Questioning everything.
And once you you're you're done questioning, you need to
question that as well, right? So Bitcoin is just the perfect
tool to help you question everything.
Hello, I am Cody Allingham and this is the Transformation of
Value, a place for asking questions about freedom, money
and creativity. My guest today is Peter F0,

(00:24):
tattoo artist, designer and decade long Bitcoiner.
He is part of the 2140 Art Collective, which includes over
50 artists exploring themes of Bitcoin, privacy, freedom and
consciousness through art. Peter started living on a
Bitcoin standard two years ago and is joining me here today in
Japan. Thank you for coming on the

(00:46):
show, Peter. Thank you for having me, Cory.
You know, as artists, there is often this insatiable,
indescribable desire to find meaning and express emotion
through our creative work. This feeling often follows us
wherever we go. It nudges us.
Can you tell me a little bit about your creative journey to

(01:06):
be an artist? Of course, I was born in France
in a mixed family, so I was always, I'm torn apart between a
Muslim world and Christian world.
So I had to look for the truth myself.
And I came up with my own definition of truth and my own
vision of the world. So I was quite a shy and quiet

(01:27):
kid, but I had to trust myself when it comes to the things I
was feeling, seeing and growing up.
I realized that I have, I have avery specific way of seeing the
world, very unique. And there might be then maybe
there is value in that. And I thought that maybe it
would be worth sharing with the world.

(01:50):
So right now I'm trying to, to share as much as possible the,
the, the thoughts that I have, the, the things that I see, the,
the things that I feel and in general.
And I would like the, I would like people to maybe get
interested in, in artist and theway they see things myself or
other people and try to maybe becurious about it.

(02:11):
And by sharing, I believe that we can learn a lot from each
other and and maybe come up witha better vision for the future
altogether. Yeah, that's incredible.
Could you tell me a little bit more?
You you talked about growing up in a mixed family in a religious
sense. Is that what you're referring?
To yes, yes. So my dad's family left Algeria
in 63 after the war. So a colonized country and all

(02:34):
the trauma coming with it. And my mom is from France, so
very Christian, going to church and the whole thing.
So they didn't really try to push any religion on me.
But having the choice as a kid, you, you need guidance more than
anything, right? So I was quite lost.
And you have the whole cultural context in France.

(02:54):
Added to that, I was growing up in a specific neighborhood when
we, you, you had like maybe 20 different nationalities, black
people, gypsies. So I saw a lot of diversity very
young and I saw the richness andthe wealth that it was providing

(03:14):
people in terms of community andmindset.
People were sharing, living together, inviting each other
to, to, to, to meals. And so I disunity that I was
feeling when I was a kid, I got disconnected from that growing
up, going to, to school, university jobs and and the Fiat

(03:38):
world in general, right. So I'm trying to to bring back
that sense of unity and I think the world is in need right now.
Yeah, well, that's fascinating. If I, if I can just pull on that
thread a little bit, there's a book that I often reference
propaganda, the formation of men's attitudes.
Jacques is French theorist and this was written, I believe the

(03:59):
late 1960s. And the Algerian war is
referenced extensively as in a sense of very turning point for
France and this post colonial project.
And it's fascinating the, the role of the state, the role of
propaganda in that, in that devastating civil war.
And then kind of the reactions within the country.

(04:21):
You know, there was a lot of people within France who were
very unhappy with what was taking place and the the fact
that your, your father kind of escaped that.
And no doubt had connections to Algeria as well.
I mean, is this something that you you kind of he shared with
you? Is there something that you
learned about? So, so my dad was born in
France, but his older brothers and sister knew a little bit

(04:44):
about war and were born there. So it's more about generational
trauma and the Aurora that you can witness during war.
And one of my uncle, for example, he was 3 when, when the
whole thing went down and saw a lot of violence as a, as a very
young kid. So you can imagine that his life

(05:04):
was just alcohol and, and violence and reproducing this
type of behaviour because you'rejust traumatized, right?
So you have the individual aspect of it and you end up with
men that are so traumatized thatit can take care of their
families properly. They end up beating their kids
and reproducing trauma basically.

(05:26):
And in, in a more broader, in a broader sense, it would end up
with the propaganda. You're talking about South back
in the 60's, the government was obviously trying to look good
internationally and on site. It was also Algerian people
against each other because the Algerian people were also

(05:49):
divided because of the propaganda.
So cousins, brothers fighting each other, taking one side or
the other. And ultimately now in France,
you have a lot of immigration and, and that immigration is
coming from somewhere and the government has a big role in
that. And there is always a starting
point in history. So most people don't know about

(06:12):
what happened 50 years ago in Nigeria and even even it's even
more the case when it comes to what happened a century ago.
And so propaganda did did did its thing big time well.
It's fascinating. I mean, there's I mean, you can
see of highlight, every page is a highlight.
And the fact that he was JacquesE Laws so succinctly and

(06:34):
clearly, even though, you know, it's translated from French, but
the English translation is so clearly exposes this idea of the
state and propaganda and this necessary relationship between
the two and the modern state. And, you know, you talk about
this melting pot of France. And again, we only need to dive
into the history of the French Revolution, Montesquieu, the

(06:58):
different theorists who developed a lot of the ideas
that came into what we would think of as liberty, as freedom.
And is this something that you you studied growing up?
Is this something that you learnabout?
You have this state propaganda in schools as well, so if you
are just looking at public education, the state is always

(07:20):
trying to look good once again. So they are teaching you about
classical authors, but in a veryspecific way and trying to get
somewhere, right. And so they are pushing the
liberty, equality, fraternity ethos.
But in in in real life, you see the exact opposite, right?

(07:43):
Like less spending when it comesto the socialist model,
education is going down the level of of education when it
comes to math, philosophy, and just the brains are being
destroyed and everything is becoming more and more
Americanized. So intimately.

(08:04):
A lot of French people right noware disconnected from their
roots. It doesn't matter if you're
French or if you're coming from another nationality, you don't
have roots, so you are easily manipulated.
You're a little bit lost. And when it comes to values,
you, you are thrown in between alot of things and and ultimately

(08:28):
you just follow the the trends. Yeah, well, it's, it's
interesting to talk about this idea of roots because, you know,
if we look more broadly at like neoliberalism as a concept, you
know, this idea that we just have these these free floating
kind of people, maybe families, maybe individuals, but that
there there is no such thing as a society.
And I think this is really interesting because it's sort

(08:50):
of, on one hand we can look at a, maybe a simple reading of a
Bitcoin critique of the state and say, well, there's also no
society. But actually the reality is
there isn't such a thing as there is such a thing as
society. But the real challenge is when
the state lays claim to owning society, to being it.
Yes, so state. State is also using a lot of

(09:15):
euphemisms and is trying to makeyou think that state is society
and and you can't have society without state while the state is
just the monopoly of violence. On top.
That's on top. So that's what they are doing
and they can anytime they can basically throw you in jail or

(09:35):
tell you not to do that or do that.
And so there's no such thing as freedom in, in, in the, in the
state, in a nation as, as, as wehave now.
So we need to divide the state and, and society.
And then you can understand thatsociety is just us, people
coming together. And then you can talk about

(09:58):
anarchism or on the other modelsand other ideas that you can
implement in those communities, but society is just a group of
people living together. Yeah, Well, I, I think the the
the nuance, there's very important because it is in a
sense a theoretical project to kind of unpick it.
And, you know, you read these books on these kind of these

(10:18):
ideas, but there is also a reality of, you know, elections
and, you know, policies and, and, and we see that now
tariffs, international politics,there's all of these things that
kind of happen anyway. And I think maybe from a Bitcoin
perspective, it's important to kind of look at them both from
an academic theoretical perspective, but also in a

(10:40):
practical sense, what can we actually do in this kind of
cypherpunk ethos of writing codeor in a more practical sense,
you know, running your own node or running the hardware.
I've got a little bit X there. I've just unplugged it to get
rid of the noise. But running the hardware, you
know, having these tools and then making use of them is very

(11:00):
important, right? But coming back to your art
practice, though, so you've sortof given me an idea of maybe
your background that led to you becoming interested in art.
But more specifically, I mean, your, your body is, is a canvas
in a sense. Tell me more about how you got
into tattoos. Well, I studied when I was a
kid. I was an otaku, basically.
Yeah, yeah, I was into Pokémon, Dragon Ball Z and all the

(11:25):
Japanese things that you can imagine coming, coming in France
in the 90s. So it wasn't cool back then.
So I was a little bit buried forthat.
Like you, you look just weird and into things that people
don't understand. And back to politics real quick,
you had a French candidate. We, we, we did a entire campaign
on that. Like young guys are bad and they

(11:48):
are just influencing youth. And so it was the whole thing in
France for a while. But I, I just love the culture
and Japan in general and delicacy and the nuances.
So I, I was drawing a lot, I wasdoing comics and yes, of course,
and, and, and growing up, I kindof stopped because, you know,

(12:10):
life and school and blah, blah, blah.
And then Bitcoin gave me more, more time and more perspectives.
So I came back to that and I realized that I wanted to quit
my job because I was work, working in retail fashion.
So it was a little bit artistic in a way, Like fashion can be a
way to express yourself, but I think I'm a little bit autistic
some way. And I just needed ways to

(12:34):
express myself so that people can understand me better.
And I realized that I needed to get in touch with my creativity
and produce more in terms of value and proof of work.
So I quit my job and I just wentinto tattooing.
And I think for me growing up, it was a way to maybe deal with
trauma. As in, if you feel something,

(12:57):
you can just as an artifact design some some, some type of
tattoo and then just go to an artist and get into your getting
into your skin. And once it's done, it's like
through the pain, you alchemize the the whole trauma and then
it's out of your head and you can just look at it, remember
it, honor your, your trauma or your memory can be something

(13:20):
positive as well, right? But it's your whole story.
And then you can move on and actualize yourself as you go.
So it was a way to keep moving and, and, and keeping the hope
highs and, and, and just not getting too depressed about
things and the hardships in life.
And when I started tattooing, I'm still practising because

(13:41):
it's only been two years. So I'm not pretending I'm a
tattoo artist, legit tattoo artist, as as you can see in
shops or something, because I don't have one, but I'm
practicing and I have a lot of bitcoiners that are willing to
let me tattoo them. So it's a lot of trust.
It's a whole process. And the way I see tattoos now is
more about the the history of itand the meaning like ritual,

(14:07):
something that that is sacred and it shouldn't be just some
type of sticker you put on yourself because you like that,
that design on Google, right? Like it's art first of all and
you need to talk to your tattoo artist and trust the tattoo
artist, find the right artist todo it and it's a whole process
so you should think about it andand make it meaningful.

(14:30):
That's interesting. So two years and you've got a
background also though playing around with illustration and
that sort of thing. Yes, yes.
I was just drawing by myself andnow I'm more like a designer.
I, I invested a little bit and now I'm doing designs for
companies become companies friends.
I design pins as well for the art collective.
We needed a lot of logos to to do the promotion, so I've been

(14:53):
doing this as well and now I'm really willing to help Fiat
companies brand themselves into the Bitcoin world and properly
with the right little clues thatthey they are missing basically.
Yeah. Oh, that's incredible.
I mean, the, the, I mean, Japan's Japan is an interesting
place for tattoo culture and it's in, in kind of the modern

(15:15):
era, sort of after World War 2, it had kind of has become maybe
a taboo in a sense. But certainly historically
Japan, you know, people had tattoos instead of clothes and a
lot of these kind of working class industries.
There was a long history of it. The Itezumi, you know, you'll be
familiar with beautiful artwork and in a lot of cases very

(15:37):
methodically done by hand. So, and that's, that's still a
tradition, A tradition that is alive today.
And it's, it's interesting what you mentioned about alchemizing
your fear. I hadn't heard about that
concept before. I hadn't thought about it like
that. But this may be something quite
profound about, you know, going through this pain, putting the

(15:58):
image onto your body and then that sort of it almost just
removes the the image remains, but you've you've ingested the
pain and you're sort of you're internalized as you say.
Yes and and tattoos also help mefilter intentions when it comes

(16:19):
to people, especially when I decided to do that big head
tattoo right there. Oh wow.
So I always had people judging me like everyone is judged right
by society and parents, friends and everything.
But when it comes to the head tattoo, once I got it, you
either have people who are scared or they don't understand

(16:40):
and they do weird faces when they look at you, or they just
go like, wow, super cool tattoo.And then, OK, you're not judging
me for that. So maybe we can start a
conversation, right? And as you mentioned Japanese
tattoos, it was the same for yakuzas, right?
Like if you enter the Yakuza world, you get this full body
tattoo because you can't go backto the normal life.

(17:00):
You're you are committed and youwill die as a Yakuza.
You can't go back to to a normallife because it's on your body,
it's visible. So it's about making it obvious
for the world to see. And the contour culture of the
cypher punk ethos. Like I think there is a lot of
links between Bitcoin and tattoos and and this this
different movement and parallel underground way of living.

(17:26):
I, I think this is interesting because this is something
honestly I've been thinking about quite a lot is, you know,
Bitcoin is a, it is a countercultural revolution and
it's to, to, to sort of, I mean to dive into it.
I mean, there's something, I don't know if you're familiar

(17:46):
with queer culture and, and a concept of post post
structuralism, critical theory, these kinds of things, which
it's interesting in some realms of the Bitcoin world, there's
kind of this very knee jerk reaction to these kinds of
ideas. But actually, I think it's very

(18:06):
endemic. It's very core to Bitcoin itself
is to have these kinds of concepts.
And how would I frame this to beable to critique normative
behaviour, whatever it might be,whether it's someone's
sexuality, their tattoo, you know, how they they live.
Their life, whatever, whatever. Yes.
And we do see sometimes, you know, some things are kind of OK

(18:27):
and then something oh, you know,that's too far.
But I think the bigger concept of like critiquing power
structures and and normative structures is, is very
interesting and I think it's kind of core to Bitcoin in a
sense. Yes.
And philosophy is all about that, right?
Questioning everything. And once you you're you're done
questioning, you need to question that as well, right?
So Bitcoin is just the perfect tool to help you question

(18:50):
everything. And it's like this portal you
get in and you start maybe with economics and what is money and
currency, and then you're getting more into profound
economical concepts and then politics.
And then it's that rabbit hole that never ends, right?
So Bitcoin helps you become a philosopher if you are open to

(19:11):
it and you think by yourself. So you need critical thinking.
And that's why sometimes you will meet Bitcoiners who are
very fat and they are not criticizing and they are not
questioning anything. They just take the tool and
think in terms of dollars basically and number go up.
So I think it's the perfect, it's exactly what the world

(19:31):
needed because obviously what we've been doing is not working
and we are losing meaning, we are losing the value.
And you mentioned the, the queermovement, It's the same.
It started with people willing to live their lives and have
security and just the right to be themselves.
And now you have all this propaganda once again and the

(19:52):
state is just doing its thing again.
And oh, I can use this movement.I can, I could market that and I
can use that and manipulate people and and.
And the, the streams are the stream of ideas and the the flow
of history. And I think with Bitcoin, we
have the unique opportunity to to take that power back and, and
we need to think it through low term, low time preference.

(20:15):
And if we think ahead together as a community, we can come up
with a better world and solve a lot of problems that are not
really problems in my opinion, just just nonsense.
Yeah. Well, honestly, ma'am, like I've
been thinking about this a lot because, you know, we've we've
seen this sort of swing back andthis is kind of getting back

(20:35):
into the Fiat political spectrum.
But there is a swing from the left to the right happening and
globally. And what I've always been kind
of conscious of is that we need to be very careful that, you
know, I guess, from from whatever position of power that
we have, that we don't let that actually turn into violence or
attacks on, on what we saw as anoppressive thing.

(20:58):
Because, you know, say, take a queer culture thing, you know,
transgender topic or something. It always comes up and it's
these sort of bullet points theyget, you know, spouted on the
media and they become these these stories sensationalized.
But in a sense, it's been pickedup and used to shut down free

(21:19):
speech, to shut down conversations.
And I think, you know, I don't have a horse in the race.
I don't, you know, I don't play that game, but I think it's just
really important that, you know,we're able to meet people where
they're at and have dialogue. And I think one of the big
challenges right now is that that gap is so big now and it's
kind of an artificial gap. It's like it's been created this

(21:42):
kind of left and right thing. How do you even have a
conversation with someone you know?
Well, I think you mentioned the left and right and it's meant
like I like the idea of look at your hand.
It can be like inside or back ofyour head and maybe you have or
the point of view or the ways oflooking at it and you are
between the fingers and the nails.
And it's more complicated than that.
So I think we should start thinking in terms of

(22:05):
differences. And it's not about picking a
side because we're all on the same side.
Humanity, we are all humans and either you are state or not.
And, and believing the state is,is with you or is going to help
you when it comes down to it, they're not going to help you.
Yeah, when shit hits, hits the fan, as we say, it's like, no,

(22:27):
nobody's going to save you. And you have many, many example
in history and, and the propaganda and all the things
we've been mentioning. It comes down to the states want
wants more power and more control.
Not because they just want it, It's because it's the only way
they can maintain power basically.
Well, power begets power. It's this one thing that you can

(22:48):
never be satiated. You're.
You need more. Your hunger, your, your, your,
your sexual desire, your, you know, your, your, your lust for
money, even there is a limit there on how much you can
consume. But power is, is
all-encompassing. And I, I guess what I was
getting at, I, I don't, I agree with you.
I, I don't, I don't think it's asimplistic argument for me
personally. I live in between a lot of
different communities. Like I, I, on one day I can be

(23:12):
hanging out with people from, you know, from the state, you
know, people working in central bank and people working in that
world. You know, I meet these people
through my journalism. On the other hand, I can be
hanging out with like my, my hippie friends.
We go down to the beach, go surfing, you know, we've got
business friends, you know, we're all very multifaceted
people and being at the middle of a lot of these relationships

(23:34):
is very interesting. I don't know about you, but I I
sort of see bridge building as one of the key tasks.
How do we make you know, as you say, How do you communicate so?
I'm in the same position as you and thanks to Bitcoin travelling
and my personal story, I have a lot of friends like from Africa.
So I have this, this context. I've lived in Chicago, I've

(23:55):
lived in Japan, I've been to DC meeting political people, Europe
in general, I've seen to and anda lot of people are just
focusing on the differences onceagain.
But as you said, it's about building bridges and how can we
bring people together? Because when we are divided,
then that's when the problem, problems will occur and, and you

(24:17):
see differences. So you will attack each other.
And that's another way the the state is, is manipulating us.
So why we are busy fighting eachother?
Because you're left and right oryou're straight, I'm gay,
whatever. While we are doing that, we are
not addressing the problem. That is sovereignty, freedom and
options. Do you have options or are you

(24:37):
just in this illusion of choice one or two?
It's always this or this, but you have many options.
You, you can think, think outside of the box and you can
build a life for your, for yourself and for your community
and, and those communities. You don't have to to be with
people that you don't relate to too much, but you need to be

(24:59):
open enough so so that the conversation can happen.
Well, it's interesting. I, I, I'm a big believer in just
reflection, self reflection and,you know, trying to expose
myself at least to the ideas outthere and, and kind of think
critically about them. And I've been following this
thread recently. There's a few people like Naomi

(25:20):
Klein and Estra Taylor, who I classically these people are
known for, you know, basically left, the left, but you know,
kind of critiques of of of the state from a leftist
perspective. But looking at them talk about
something like Bitcoin and self sovereignty and labeling it as a
kind of end of end of days fascism.

(25:43):
It was a kind of a way they started talking about this and
sort of framing it. And they were referring to some
of these like state, what would you call them, Free State
projects, places like Prospero, some of the stuff we're seeing
in El Salvador, this move for Bitcoiners to kind of opt out
and then labeling that as kind of exiting the social contract,

(26:03):
exiting any kind of externalities from something
like climate change, whatever. And seeing that labeling that as
kind of a fascist movement. And that really struck me as
like, hey, I would like to have a conversation with you and
understand what you mean becauseI don't see it like that.
But I'll begin to hear what you think, this kind of framing of
self sovereignty as a very selfish kind of concept.

(26:26):
And I think as you said, it comes down to self reflection
and you are only responsible foryourself.
You're not responsible for the planet, you're not responsible
for the climate, you're not responsible for any of that.
So it's just too big and you getlost in the sauce.
You like, what are you going to do the planet?
You need to zoom out, right? Like so when you start thinking

(26:48):
critically, you realize that youhave a limited time on this
planet and you are only responsible for yourself.
So you need to improve yourself and it starts with you.
And if you start healing, as we were mentioning the, the war in
Nigeria, if you start healing yourself 1st and you, you make
your peace with your life and you forgive people and whatever

(27:10):
Jesus was saying, basically, right?
And then once you're there, you can maybe provide real value
because it's coming from a better place inside you.
You're coming from love and not from fear anymore.
And, and you can unite people for real because you are united
within yourself. You have people who are totally
divided, fighting against themselves, ego and all that.

(27:34):
And they're trying to give advice to the world.
And I think that's why we ended up where we at now.
We need to zoom out and lose yourself for a minute and
realized that the climate has been changing for centuries,
Millennials before we even even were there.
The like, it's too much. I think it's too much.

(27:55):
And, and then you have the fear and the anxiety and depression
and all that we need to connect again with our, our source and
the light inside of us and realize that we have the power
to change ourselves. And if you believe through
consciousness that you are this or that, then matter will follow
and reality will follow. It's not the other way around.

(28:17):
And I think we are just, we've been disconnected from, from the
source of, of consciousness for too long.
And, and it's been a long process and propaganda had did
its role and all the theories that we are mentioning, you have
to actually think about them andfor yourself, not just be like,
OK, this guy who has a big name and my teacher told me about

(28:41):
when I was 16 and he's using allthese nice words and, and it's
truth. No, it's maybe a part of truth.
Or maybe you can use that as a tool to build your own truth and
then confront that truth with others and build something
better. So I think the problem is
ultimately the the fact that human beings have been always

(29:02):
prioritizing consciousness for centuries, millennials, and then
all of the sudden it's all aboutmaterial things.
So you have this this reversal happening.
And now God is the next iPhone, God is the next Louis Vuitton,
God is the next thing I can buy.And you're always in that race.

(29:24):
And as you said, doesn't there'snever enough.
That's why you're going to have iPhone 200, 67 or whatever.
It's never going to end because you are disconnected from the
source. You're looking for something
outside of you while it's insideof you.
So if you don't do that work, then everything else doesn't,
doesn't matter. And I wouldn't even say that if

(29:47):
you don't do that work and you don't heal yourself first,
you're going to do more damage than than anything else.
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's fascinating man, because the I,
I guess the way I've, I've come to sort of understand this in a
sense, you know, I mentioned some of these these commentators
talking about this, this critique, you know, as if, you

(30:09):
know, some Bitcoin whales are going to go and, you know, set
up and kind of exit. And, and there's kind of this
collective thinking that goes into that kind of critique that
well, that that they should do something about they these
people have some responsibility for it.
And I think fundamentally, somehow, maybe this is genetic,
but it just some people in the population, they, they feel

(30:30):
maybe more of a collective senseand, and if we were to paint it
positively, they feel maybe likea, a protective instinct for
others. And then there's others who
other people who see themselves maybe as more self, you know,
self sovereign, you know, self driven.
And I, I think you can see this even within families.
You know, some siblings are moreprotective of the others and

(30:50):
others are more like, Hey, leaveme alone.
And I think that's part of the human family as we have these
different, you know, you've got the, the people who stay behind
and look after the base and you know, the people who go out and
other scouts, you know, you've got these, these different kind
of framings within the human psyche.
And what becomes difficult though, is when you're, when you
elevate that collectivism, that communism to a, a state based,

(31:14):
you know, enforcement, everyone has to follow that framework.
And you don't get the Ying and Yang because if you've got a
nice mixture, of course a motheris going to look after the
children. Maybe the father goes out and
works, whatever. That's a gender stereotype.
But you know, that's kind of a way of framing it.
But if you made it, you know, made one framework the way
everyone has to do it, it's. Not going to work.

(31:35):
It's not going to work. So as I say, it's like if you
think as a tribal community, some people have skills and
certain way ways of being so youlet them be and do what you're
good at. But once again, you need to come
from love, not fear. So if you are a very
self-centered individual it's fine.
But if you come from fear, then you will intend to step on other

(32:00):
people to get where you're trying to get, while you should
just be collaborating in peace and harmony.
And we all have our own part to play.
But first you need to heal yourself.
That's why it's very important. And then you can, you can
broaden the horizon and you can do whatever.
Then all the the possibilities are open.
And once again, once you get to that level of healing, then you

(32:22):
can, you can have a different frequency, you can have a better
level of consciousness. And then the way you move, the
way you talk, the things you attract, the things that you're
you're supposed to avoid will just go away from you because
you're not vibing with them anymore.
And and everything aligns naturally.
Yeah, yeah, I know. I know exactly what you mean.
So so it's it's it's consciousness then matter, not

(32:46):
the other way around. What it's it's interesting as
well this, I mean, you mentionedJesus before and this history,
this kind of interesting dialectic in the Christian
tradition between kind of rational.
What is it the, the, the logicalframing which we get with, I
believe the Thomas Aquinas, thislogical framing of this than

(33:09):
that contrasted with more pure faith and, and kind of the, the
oblivion of, of others people like Augustine.
I've got here on the shelf. And, and the history of, of
Christianity in a sense has beenthat there's kind of two kind of
the logic and the, and the, and the framing of, of this thing
that with pure sort of faith and, and those two kind of

(33:31):
finding each other. And this goes deeper in a sense
with that kind of relationship with the, the Greek world, the,
the, the, the, the logical framing, this kind of natural
philosophy and then the, the Jewish tradition of, of, you
know, obedience before, before, before God and, and, and this
kind of absolute and those two kind of things are sort of

(33:53):
pulling each other. It seems like the history of the
Western tradition has been those.
And maybe we're in the swing right now.
That's sort of the end of modernity, perhaps where we've
gotten to the end of like material logic and, and physical
materialism. Like, well, you know, what else
can we do? We can build anything in a
factory now. We can 3D print all the stuff,

(34:13):
but we're still, we're lacking this kind of faith.
This is kind of there's great Infinity, right?
And I don't, I mean, what do youthink about that?
I think it's inside of us. I think it's inside of us and
you have everything you need andand as long as you're looking
outside of you, like the Jesus Jesus message to me is quite

(34:35):
simple. Like you can talk about it, you
can make it complicated, you candebate, OK, but it's talking
about love and compassion. And if you are loving and
compassionate being and everybody is, then it's heaven
on earth. If, if I'm willing to die for
you and you're willing to die for me, then we don't have to
die anymore. Because if everybody's doing

(34:57):
that, then it's peaceful. And I think the meaning got lost
in translation. And, and maybe, maybe, just
maybe Christianity has been manipulated in a way that fear
of death is becoming a thing. And, and in general, if you are

(35:18):
scared of death and what is invisible, then then you tend to
go back to the material right, to, to feel safe.
And I think there is a lot of truth in, in all the, all the
text you've been mentioning, allthe different ways of seeing the
world and history in general, but we see those are separate.

(35:39):
Once again, everybody has a little bit of truth.
And when you look at the bigger picture, it's about building a
world, building a better world. And we've been trying to do that
with Matteo things and more, while it's more about getting
rid of the external to go back to that sense of self and and

(36:03):
greater consciousness. And all the religions would
would agree with that. It doesn't matter.
They're all saying live a simplelife and get rid of the material
and eat less fast. They're all talking about the
same thing. Yeah, it's, it's incredible as
well. I mean, I'm reminded, obviously
the, the Lord's Prayer, you know, it'll be done on earth as
it is in heaven. And this kind of there's,

(36:25):
there's a lot we can, we can take from this.
And I think again, it's interesting at this moment and,
and I look at something like this, this worship that we have
of AI, generative AI and the waypeople look at it as this kind
of profound new way. Yet I, I happen to think there's
probably a bubble coming. I think the whole market's

(36:46):
propped up with bullshit and it's, you know, maybe it's going
to help write my emails, maybe helps with some design stuff.
But I don't see it transforming the way we think about ourselves
as people. But humans want to ascribe that
transformative power to this technology that I've created
and. They're looking for God outside
of themselves, and AI is closer to God than anything else.

(37:08):
Like if you look outside of yourself, yes, it's faster, it
knows everything, blah, blah, blah, but it's, it's not God.
It's not. And if you, that's why the
narrative is, is important and, and the invisible is more
important than the matter. Because if you believe that AI
is God, then that's what it is to you.

(37:28):
And then you have all the consequences and, and whatever
you think that is, that's what it's going to be.
So for people who believe that AI is God, then they talk to AI
before talking to their friends or talking to their families.
And, and you had this case of this kid, right, who killed
himself and had suicidal ideas and went to ChatGPT to ask for

(37:49):
help. And when he was asking, maybe I
should talk to my mom about it, I'm not feeling well.
AI said, no, maybe you shouldn'tbecause she will feel bad.
And the kid committed suicide inthe end, right?
So that's terrible and, and the mental issues that you already
have in the world, Western worldespecially, it's not going to
get better because the world is getting crazier and crazier.

(38:12):
And you can see that that sense of acceleration right in
everything, the politics, the news, the everything is just
accelerating and exponentially. So our brain is not meant to
follow up and keep up with exponentials.
Most people, if you say that word, they don't even know what
that means, like in terms of math, right?

(38:33):
So if everything is going exponential around you and
you're trying to keep up with that, you're going to go crazy.
You're going to lose your mind literally.
So that's why you need more thanever go back inside and to that
quiet and that Zen state that, that, that peaceful state and,
and the now and you don't need anything.
We are breathing. We are talking now or should I

(38:55):
be thinking about the next car that I want to buy or next shoe?
Like come on. Like it's just common sense.
And, and, and if you're feeling insecured or, or fearful, you, I
mean, I feel for you and I feel still like this sometimes, but
you need to bring that consciousness towards yourself
and look at yourself with, with critical thinking again, like,

(39:17):
am I thinking straight? Am I thinking right?
Or am I just being influenced? Or is it is it noise or is it
just my trauma speaking through through anxiety and and
intimately? If you get rid of things more
instead of adding more, you willrealize that everything's fine.
It's all good. Because when you know, people

(39:37):
from Africa, like my grandmother, she was born in a
in a village in Nigeria, went through war.
They, they, they knocked on the door one day, they took her dad
away. She never saw him again.
And she went to France and she was peaceful and just Zen and
never, never bad word and just Hamdullah, Hamdullah,
everything's fine thanks to God.Whatever that means for you.

(39:59):
Just humbleness and, and, and always giving, giving, giving.
And I think that's the the solution.
You give more than you receive. And especially in the Bitcoin
community, I've been confrontinga lot of barriers when it comes
to people gaining interested in art, but they don't see the
return on investment. And I'm like, what?

(40:21):
What do you mean you don't see the return on investment?
Like the narrative, it's important.
Like if you don't do that now, then somebody's going to do it.
And then you are not in control of your own life.
And then you are on that path and it's too late or you have
consequences, right? And then it takes more effort in
the future to go back to previous states of, of being

(40:42):
and, and the Bitcoin community. I see it as this beautiful
melting pot and people from all over the world and different
angles. But we need to all sit and have
a conversation without judging each other because some people
are early, they have more coins than you and then they they
basically cheat on you or if they don't with words, you feel
it. And when it comes to investing
in my friends in Europe who are doing the right thing, in my

(41:04):
opinion, cipher plants from the early age, like Satoshi's Flame,
as I like to call it, keepers ofthat flame.
But they don't make money or they don't have a proper offer
or they smell bad or they don't cut their hair or whatever.
They're not corporate enough. So they don't have a stage, they
don't have investments, they don't have anything going on,
and they're struggling. Yeah.

(41:26):
So it's about being fair. Yeah.
What's interesting you said like, you know, giving more than
you you receive. And I'm reminded, I think it
might have been Paul who said, you know what, what have you
received that you did not get from someone else?
And this is, I mean, it's an interesting concept and I want
to come back to what kind of what this means though for you

(41:48):
from an artistic perspective. Can you tell me a little bit
more about 2140 Collective? What is that?
Yes, so 2 founders. Anon because he's Anon and man
monkey so I went to my first Bitcoin conference two years ago
that's that's when I started really living on the Bitcoin
standard and I met mad monkey with a woodworker Syphon punk

(42:11):
living in a van with a coyote. It's not a dog, it's a coyote.
So I saw God in his eyes like the light and the love and the
message. And he's just talking about the
right things. And it's about the kids and it's
about Gaza, it's about freedom, it's about waking up people and,
and bringing more love and unityin the world, right?

(42:33):
So he's using Bitcoin and every single technology he can find to
put that ethos. And Anon is more like the genius
guys guy with a lot of ideas. And so they created 2140 a few
years ago. I joined the two of them two
years ago after my first conference, as I said.
And then I was looking at Monkeyand he was struggling a little

(42:55):
bit. I'm like, OK, what do you need?
We get in the van and I'll pay alittle bit for the expenses and
we go to all the conferences. So we've been doing that last
year going to Prague, Riga, showing up everywhere.
And so official conferences, right?
And you have those official after parties and we just
organized non official after parties, more cypherpunk vibe

(43:20):
and people started hearing aboutus coming to those after parties
and you had O GS coming to us like yes, this is it authentic,
real, no bullshit, no sponsor, no, not trying to sell anything,
just open source. We, we pull up with the art, we
and we do it for the people by the people, right?

(43:40):
And we, we were bringing that vibe.
And now we have this Bitcoin culture festival going on.
Last year we did it for the first, first time in London.
So the main party is during White Paper Day.
So it's like a Halloween party, White paper day and it's a whole
week when we push the freedom tag basically.

(44:01):
So we talk a lot about Noster, how to set up a wallet.
So for everyone, basically we, we just adapt.
And as you said, we meet people where they at art.
We have also screening. I think this year we're going to
screen that dirty coin mining documentary and people should
just check it out because we, we, we, we charge 2140 lbs for,

(44:25):
for the ticket. It's a whole week.
You have events that are free when it's not the Bitcoin
Culture Festival. We also organize events in
London all the time, art galleries, meetups.
It's not official, it's not. It's people for the people.
So you don't have any wallet or company behind it.

(44:47):
And if you want to support them,help them participate in any way
you, you should and you could. So yeah, check them out.
And I've been for a year now, I've been travelling and trying
to make it more global for, for the message for, for 2140 in
general, but for myself as well.And I and I think the, the
message that we have is important.
And I saw that it was lacking onthe global scale.

(45:09):
So this is coming up October 31st this year.
Again, yes, it's the whole week in London.
Yes, exactly. That's incredible.
And so we've got here at 2140, we believe that art, film and
music can creatively capture theessence of the Bitcoin movement,
which is more than just a tech culture or financial revolution.
It's a movement about a new way of living.

(45:31):
And I think this is really interesting, man, because it, it
sort of speaks back to this, yeah, this expanded
consciousness. I guess you could say this.
Maybe we can look at analogies in the past with something like
the 1960s as as kind of a revolution in the way people
think about themselves. But I'm just wondering for you
personally, are there any historical movements or art

(45:53):
movements that have kind of factored into your view on all
of us? Well, I'm, I like to study and
read a lot by myself at night. So I would say a lot of
movements have inspired me, but any type of revolutionary
movement, maybe reggae, reggae music and and Bob Marley, what

(46:13):
it did and the way it brought reggae music, which is basically
not even Jamaican music. It's one specific spot in
Jamaica, Kingston and you have one neighborhood when reggae was
born at and and and then this guy's just this guy, because he
was very, very gifted, made it just worldwide.
And even now we still, we still talk about Bob Marley and reggae

(46:36):
music is a is a huge thing, right?
So the, the, the reggae reggae influence is, is very important
because it's, it's also rooted in, in religion.
And then the way Rastafaris see themselves and and the
connection to God and, and the simple way of life, like real
Rastafaris. They just live on the mountain,

(46:58):
smoke weed, yes, but not the same type of weed you find in
dispensaries in in Cali, right? Like it's just, we define in the
forest and they, they communicate with God's spirits.
They let their, their hair grow so that they, they, they have
these antennas to communicate with, with the spiritual world.
And they, they have this, this historical thing that we are, we

(47:21):
have been disconnected from the motherland, which is Africa.
And we need to go back to that motherland.
So it's not even travelling backthere.
It's more like spiritual. We need to go back to the roots
that we were talking about and the Messiah is going to come
back one day and and take us back to to this motherland,
right? So we are back into that concept

(47:43):
of consciousness and they are talking about the enemy, which
is Babylon. Babylon, Man.
Babylon man and then he became this, this propaganda again and
all these, these, these small gifts and T-shirts, Baba Mali.
And, and if you look at his life, they try to assassinate
him at some point. And ultimately he went worldwide

(48:07):
into the industry mainstream andhe became really sad about it
because that's that that wasn't his goal.
Money wasn't his goal. And you have this famous
interview when he's been asked, are you rich?
And he's just answering, what doyou mean?
Are you talking about money? It doesn't mean anything.
So once again, if you are in Bitcoin and you're just talking

(48:29):
about number, go, go up. Maybe ask yourself what is money
and what is it for what? What is your goal and what are
your intentions? You know Bob Marley, he, he came
to New Zealand just once, Bob Marley and the whalers and a
friend of mine photographed him.This was back in maybe 1970s and

(48:50):
just for a short tour around Auckland and New Zealand.
And we had a good chat and he, my friend is an older
photographer telling me about, yeah, meeting Bob Marley and,
and just sort of the, the ambience, the energy that the
man had about him. And that this idea though of, of
a motherland or a homeland, You know, this is really interesting

(49:10):
because in, in a lot of ways in this modern world, you know,
we're, we're all very far away from home.
What is home? You know, these questions, you
know, what, what do we, what is it that we do with our time?
You know, we, we go to work. We, we, we work on these
machines. And increasingly I, I do
sometimes wonder if this deification of AI is in the

(49:34):
sense it's sort of like sort of bowing down before it because
it's taking your own kind of jobif you're doing like emails and
white collar stuff, you know, and it's like, well, there's,
yeah, there's just some, some, some imagery there that's quite
interesting. Like your, your, your world is
being flipped upside down. And arguably, since COVID, you
know, remote work, everything, the illusion is starting to fall

(49:57):
away. What is work?
What is value? The title of this show, the
transformation of value. What do what do we even what
does it even mean to to do anything anymore?
And and I think a lot of people in their own ways are starting
to ask these questions, right. And so in some, it means it's a
very interesting time to be an artist.

(50:17):
Though I think when you have times of transformation, like
like especially now when it's atthe end of a small cycles, but
also a, a bigger cycle and we can talk centuries here.
We're living in this very specific time.
And I think it's an amazing timeto be alive because everything
is going down at the same time. So of course, you can be coming

(50:39):
from fear exactly as we were saying and then stress about
everything or just let go, come from the place of love and then
see the opportunity here. And as as there is a
transformation happening for humanity in the world in
general, you can also transform yourself with intention, right?
So that's that's exactly how I started going into the Bitcoin

(51:00):
start on more intuitively at 1stpay me, but intentionally.
And then yes, I was working for retail fashion and manager and
making good salary and being respected by my peers, blah,
blah, blah, opportunity to travel and they paid for the
hotel and everything. But if you keep doing that and

(51:21):
the world is changing, you're going to be left behind.
It doesn't matter if you are in a good place right now.
So it's the same thing with Bitcoin, right?
So as I was saying, AI and, and all the transformations in
general, the only way is to is to create something.
And that's the only way you can provide value.
I'm not saying something material.

(51:41):
It can be just ideas, book, whatever, but you need to come
up with something that you want to produce and, and keep up with
that and just put it out there And not coming from the fear
that we were mentioning that, oh, I'm going to get judged or
I'm going to maybe not make money out of it.
Like it's not about that. It's about expressing yourself
because you have something to say and you are good at

(52:03):
something and your personality. And if you if you are just brave
enough to express that in the world, then you might influence
one person. But that would be worth it.
Well, one way of framing that, and again, the I, I, I have
compassion when I listen to people who maybe have
collectivist tendencies, they, they talk about this.

(52:25):
I think fundamentally there's a,in a lot of cases people who
it's kind of a motherly caring, kind of an instinct that are,
well, we need to look after people.
I think it gets corrupted by ideology though.
But in a sense, though, I do have compassion there because
there are situations where and, and, and the brutality of say
the free market, which I think we can have critiques of this

(52:46):
neoliberalism where, you know, unless you're an economic unit,
you're, you're useless. You're, you're, you're not even
useless, you're nothing because you're not producing economic
value, right. I think there's ways of
reframing that, as you say, maybe broadening this concept of
value and looking at everyone playing their part.
And this is kind of the the society that we've almost turned

(53:07):
our back on. What does it mean, you know, to
have an elder or an older personto communicate and to lead
younger people? What does it mean to have
someone who's maybe less able? It still tries.
And, and I think, I mean, this is kind of a challenging space
to really understand what it means.
But you know, what does it mean to have communities working
together, supporting each other,to have society again, which

(53:31):
unfortunately has been supplanted by the ideology of
the state in many cases, in thiskind of everyone becoming
basically little units. Yeah, because the goal of the
state here is to tax you to keepthe war machine going just
enough. Yeah.
So, so as a French person, I, I'm, I was questioning value for

(53:52):
why? Because you have this whole
image of your country that is based on history and the things
that the state was willing to highlight, right?
Like, oh, we had the royalty andall these paintings and now it's
owned by China. So what does it even mean?
You know? So we had to sell it anyway.
So it's not even French. So OK, good.

(54:15):
But when you look at the chancesand opportunities that a young
person like me, even with a master degree and all that, like
you speak 3 languages and you have a master degree and you end
up serving juices and that's theminimum, minimum requirement for
you to get the first job. And it doesn't matter.
And if you don't have a master degree, you don't get the job.

(54:35):
So that's the first thing because that's the state of the
economy in your country and the depth and all that.
So we can get into the details of how it works.
But ultimately you're producing value because you're working.
Even when you're working, you'rethat unit, you're working.
I was willing to improve my liferight as a young person.
And everybody's willing to to have some more comfort and basic

(54:58):
needs covered, right? So you're looking for ways, then
you look for a business model and you look like entrepreneur
way. And in the Fiat system, it's not
possible right now. It's.
In France especially, you get taxed so much competitivity is
like 0 and you get taxed again on the money you pay yourself

(55:20):
and, and, and yeah, what? And then you are, I hear stories
about the government opening a new hospital and paying
$3,000,000 for the logo of the new hospital.
And then you see it and it's AI generated.
So I'm like, OK, well, what is value you?
And you have people, my my grandparents, for example, this

(55:43):
generation who don't understand and they will blame young
generations and oh, you're just lazy and, and just get a job
and. Yeah, it's a rigged.
It's a rigged game. I can win.
So if I'm playing the game, I'm stupid.
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm shooting myself in the foot and, and they

(56:04):
don't see that because they weregrowing in the, in different
times and, and for them in the 70s, for example, you had like
golden age in France. And so perspectives.
And I think value, value is, is perspectives.
If, if you can have elders and and disabled people and gay
people and and black people and every, everyone together

(56:26):
bringing their own perspective and experience, there is value
in that. Because I don't see it like you.
I can't. I don't have your life.
Well, well, fundamentally what you're talking about is liberal
society. And it's interesting like the
the this project of liberalism, and I think this is the critique
that these Naomi Klein and theseothers were making is that what

(56:49):
we're seeing now in the left andthe right, you know, labels, but
this is kind of rejection of liberal thought, which is that,
well, you just come as you are. You know, we have a a arena at
one which we can engage each other.
The fundamental liberalism respects that there are
individuals and that there is also a society.
And I think maybe the dangerous path that we're in at the

(57:12):
moment, and it is what it is, but we're starting to be like,
OK, well, you have to do this. You have to do that.
And I don't know, part of part of what I'm trying to do with
this show is maybe talk to different people and kind of
come back to fundamentally like,what does it mean to engage with
someone else to to have a relationship?
People don't do that anymore. They don't sit down and look at

(57:33):
each other in the eyes. They're looking at their phone.
Exactly. Just coming back from Seoul, I
was shocked by the state of, of their, their, their country.
Like at at least just the Seoul itself.
Everybody's on their phone all the time.
And I mean, it's everywhere in the world right now, but in
Seoul, I was shocked literally everywhere all the time.

(57:54):
And if they are not on their phone, they are walking with the
phone in their hand. They never let go of the phone.
They call it the iPhone for a reason.
It's, it's a new ego. It's the new God.
It's it's. Crazy.
And you know, people, Once Upon a time, they used to say the
blessing before they eat their food.
What do they do now? They take a photo.
So I don't know, man. We, we find ways to reintegrate

(58:14):
those things into our lives. And.
Yeah. Because we are the same, our
brain, our brains are the same. And and once again, you can't go
against exponential. So yeah, like you're just going
to be washed away. Yeah.
Final question for you, Peter, I'm, I'm really interested in
the slider of Bitcoin art. And obviously, you know, you've

(58:34):
got the pin there. I can see on your, on your, on
your chest there. It's quite nice.
We can talk about Bitcoin art ina, in a very sort of visual
sense, you know, using the bees and orange.
I've got a couple of pair of orange trousers actually that I
wear. But more broadly, how do we talk
about Bitcoin without talking about Bitcoin?

(58:55):
How do we make it into a broadermovement?
That's when it comes down to sitting with people and asking
the right questions, listening more than as a giving more than
you receive. So giving attention to people
and let them talk. And if you're really listening,
you can ask the right question and see where they're coming
from. And when you know a little bit
more about their lives, then youcan give them the right advice

(59:17):
and meet them where they are. So for example, in 2140, when we
have meetups, sometimes people are coming with peer intentions,
sometimes they just walk in, Sometimes they are 80 years old,
sometimes they are 12 years old.So you don't you don't just push
the Bitcoin ethos or economics. And we have this problem right
now. If you read the Bitcoin
standard, yeah, it's well, yeah,we understand it.

(59:43):
And and that's. Part of the story.
Yeah, yes. But some people, they are just
not interested in economics and,and you need to come from a very
privileged place to actually sitdown and think about the money
you have to invest. And some people, they have 5
bucks a day and then you pay forwhatever you have to pay for.
And then you don't have the space or you don't even think

(01:00:03):
about it, right? You're just struggling
day-to-day. So it's about meeting the people
once again. And you don't make it about
Bitcoin because Bitcoin is just the background.
Bitcoin is just the tool. So it's like I'm trying to to
feed you and I'm talking about my knives.
Right, like it doesn't make sense.
You just want to have the food and eat it and that's it.

(01:00:26):
So it's about making it simple and cool and mainstream again.
So to me, Bitcoin art is one thing.
So of course you have the art galleries and and when you have
specific skills when it comes toart and you can be painting
Michelangelo type of things, dive in Sheed.
You should do it 'cause we need the Renaissance in art and

(01:00:46):
beauty is needed definitely to inspire people, make them feel
better about the world and the state of the world because once
again, narratives. So if you see beautiful things,
then you will be impacted and you will feel better of yourself
and every everything and everybody around you.
But you need to apply Bitcoin ethos to everything, the low

(01:01:07):
time preference, the the value for value.
So if what happens to EKR, if itis becoming orange build, what
happens to Louis Vuitton once again, if it's been orange
build? So that's when that's when the
real adoption is going to come. And I was trying to to address
this issue and make it big. And you realize that people are

(01:01:31):
interested in that the, the Bitcoin B, because they just
want it to be cool. And it's part of the game.
And game theory is just unfolding as we are speaking.
But people who've been like us in the, the, the, the community
for a while, they, they've been through their face with the
Bitcoin Bees and we all went there at some point.

(01:01:53):
And oh, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin talking about it a lot.
And the more time you spend in, in that space, the less you talk
about Bitcoin. That's what I've realized.
After all these years, man, I'vefound myself, I mean, I've got a
few Bitcoin books here, but the ones I'm most interested in are
the, the bigger questions. Freedom, creativity, God, the,

(01:02:19):
the, the, the freedom that you get when you start using Bitcoin
enables you to do the work that you must do.
And to stop short of that is to maybe turn your back on your own
potential. But to actually go and say, OK,
what is it that I need to do? What is my vocation?
What is my calling? That's that's a great question

(01:02:41):
we need to ask ourselves. What is the role that I I was
meant to do here? Why was I put on this earth?
What is what is the goal here, right?
Am I just supposed to go work every day and then consume some
more and then do it again and again and again and more and
more and more because I'm scaredof that?
Or am I supposed to make the world a better place with my own

(01:03:03):
perspective? Share that with my fellow
humans. Have a great time, good food,
you know, like basic things and simple values and love and and
community and sharing and givingand compassion and and family
and all these things. And once we you are there, then
you're in the forever now heavenon earth.

(01:03:24):
And the more people you bring onto that boat, then the better
it is. Or we can just keep fighting
each other and, and, and nuke ourselves basically.
That's clear. Or love, basically.
And love is the cure there. There's nothing coming out of
fear that that is ever good. Love is the cure.
Yes, Peter, if people want to follow your work, where, where

(01:03:47):
do you want to send them? F0 dot Pro is a good way to to
follow me. Don't mind the BTCP server
because I'm always struggling with that.
But you can also check ivylumia.com.
We just released an EP. Ivy Lumia is a singer-songwriter
focusing on love and and good vibes.

(01:04:09):
Bitcoin being just the background of that and 2140 dot
WTF is a good way to to follow the community as well.
Peter, thank you so much. Thank you so much, a pleasure.
Thank you for listening. I am Cody Allingham and that was
the transformation of value. If you would like to support
this show, please consider making a donation either through

(01:04:31):
my website or by directly tipping to the show's Bitcoin
wallet, or just pass this episode on to a friend who you
think may enjoy it. And you can always e-mail me at
[e-mail].