March 27, 2025 • 10 mins
Carrie shares her deeply personal gender transition journey, revealing how her authenticity created ripple effects through her personal and professional relationships. She offers candid insights into navigating coming out during COVID, workplace acceptance, and finding unexpected joy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The thing that we don't talk about too much as a
community is that when wetransition, those around us also
transition, and so it took me54 years to come to terms, and
so it'll take other people awhile as well, and I try to
remember that.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
you know that it wasn't I mean, this was coming
Right and they could tell.
And you know I could.
You know my voice was kind ofchanging because I was working
with that.
You know, I think one timethere was mascara still left in
my eyes one time.
Telltale signs, and so I, justfrom that end, I got to remember
(00:41):
that this is a big change.
I've lost some friends, youknow, and that's okay.
They just have to recognizethat.
You know, this is me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Right, how was it coming out at work?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This is an ongoing thing and Shelby knows a little
bit about it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, how did you come out at work during COVID?
That's the headline for you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, yeah, it happened the day that I was
Michelle and, you know, the daythat I was supposed to come out,
I was going to meet mymanagement and I figured the
time was right because I was upfor a job that would have been
less client-facing or, you know,chief operations officer or
whatever.
(01:25):
But the day that I went was theday that, basically, the
country shut down and our globalHR director had to fly back to
London and she goes listen, Ican't be with you, I'm out of
here, okay, because I won't beable to get back.
So I continued and, um, it'sbeen a bit of a balancing act.
(01:50):
Um, and shelby, you don't know.
You know it has been kind ofcoming out, you know, because we
are getting ready to go back tothe office and yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
so before we go back, before you go back to the
office and you just do Zoommeeting, right?
Yeah, do you tell us about thatfunny story that you told me?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So I would just, you know, I would maybe wipe my
lipstick off.
I make myself, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You don't show videos , right.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yes, and I go really close, you know, and I wear
darker glasses and it'd bedarker in the room and I didn't
really change my voice, thinkingback on it, but we didn't.
The irony was we didn't have asmany Zoom calls, I think if you
have a client that couldn't doit as well.
And.
But there had been moments.
(02:40):
You know where I laugh aboutthis.
But there had been moments.
You know where I laugh aboutthis.
One time I was presenting andit was more of a conference call
.
My slides were up on Zoom and Itend to walk around a bit when
I present and I kept askingabout what's this clicking sound
going on, right, and I'm likeall right, and then after
meeting I'm walking around, I gooh wait, a minute, that's my
(03:06):
heels, you know.
I love it.
So they all thought there wassomething wrong.
So they're all checking her.
You know what's going on,because I was talking and
presenting and you know I use myhands to walk around, but it
has been a bit of a, you know.
I mean I don't think it's evergoing to be the big surprise.
You know there's some peoplethat haven't.
I have come out with somecoworkers.
(03:29):
One didn't really take it verywell, but most of them have.
You know we are getting readyfor, unfortunately, a big,
massive downsizing and I don'tknow how I'm going to work my
way through it.
(03:50):
You know I didn't want to?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Is the company supportive overall?
Do they have insurance plans?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, well, yeah, I'm not going to tell you much
where I'm at or what group.
Sure, they talk a lot about it.
You know, our clients talkabout diversity, right, dei DEI,
yeah, but to put it in actionis a whole different deal.
Totally Right, they'll do their.
(04:18):
I mean, I'm going to be bluntyou know they'll do their little
dinners and you know they'llbring out the former president
of the company, who's gay, andthey'll bring them out.
You know they pay him.
He's retired and they'll payhim.
You know, and so it's a littlebit of a.
You know, no troop out.
You know, and I'd gone to thosebefore.
I had, um, yeah, and I go, okay, I know this I'm, you know I'm
(04:47):
not, you know I'm not naive, andso, you know, you just talk
your way through it.
I think that the decision needsto be made.
I mean, you know I, you knowmyself and others, you know
salaries of.
You know somebody that you usedto play golf with walk around
(05:09):
the clubhouse, right, you knowshowers and everything, and all
of a sudden like, oh, wait aminute, you know what happened,
and so yeah, so what do youanticipate when you go back to
the office?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Sounds like that will be soon.
I did have my first meeting.
Go back to the office.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Sounds like that will be soon.
I did have my first meeting.
I finally was able to.
I had some Zoom calls with mymanagement and the board.
Last Tuesday I got a call and Ilearned to meet with me in the
(05:44):
morning and I kind of go okay,this could go two ways, but it
went well.
It was a nice discussion.
We'll see.
I you know, I think, like Isaid, so much has changed from a
corporate standpoint, the stuffthat's going on.
You know in Ukraine.
You know we basically had towalk away from our you know our
investments in, you know inRussia, Wow, and had to shut
(06:10):
those things down and that's asignificant amount, right and um
, just like everybody else.
So well, you know it's a.
I guess you could say thismichelle, I'm sorry, um, it's in
process got you okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
so now, um, on your facebook I'm gonna switch gear
to to you more back to yourpersonal life.
So on your Facebook I see yougo out a lot like with different
girls and clubs.
So how's Michigan when you goout, do you feel safe?
And how about bathroom orpronouns, what do they?
(06:45):
Are they understanding you.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
There are some places that are kind of hard.
Nobody's ever yelled at me whenI've had to use the right
restroom.
Nobody said get out of here.
But you know, it's not as ifI'm going to a certain place.
I mean, I'm going to placesthat I know are going to be safe
.
This would be accepting.
But I do try.
As I was saying earlier, I dotry to.
(07:11):
I want to live a normal life andthis is my normal life right
and so I didn't want to bepigeonholed of only going to
trans clubs or gay clubs orwhatever and don't get me wrong,
I love them.
You know, I just want to meetyour friends and everything else
, but at the same time I do havea regular life and I try to to
(07:32):
live that and, um, you know, Imean there's a couple places you
kind of go okay, do I kneel,you don't I want to walk in
there, do I?
you know, and you just kind ofdo it, you're right you know,
and it's like that you, you tryto go and I think, like I said,
I'm lucky because I have friendsthat are transitioning as well,
(07:54):
okay, but I also have cisgenderfriends and you know, I guess
there's comfort in a pack.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
How has therapy been a part of your process?
Have you been counseling, orhow has that worked for you?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
It's been great.
I think that I tried, withoutdoing it, and I realized I
couldn't.
I knew that I had to get alittle help.
There's that stigma, right.
Yeah, you know, and especiallywhen you kind of get into this,
it's a little easier.
I mean, I can't stand, I can'tsay.
(08:30):
I haven't had my moments whereI've had to have that, um, oh my
gosh, I gotta, I gotta see herright away, you know, and so you
go in, yeah, um, but it's beengood, good, and I think it's
just me.
I think it's helped me.
I mean, becoming who I am.
I would hope that I become abetter person, because I think
there's so many other things inmy life that just make more
(08:52):
sense.
Right, you know, I just sithere and I I'd like to think I'm
a better person.
I do know I smile way too much.
I saw it with somebody thatpeople were saying this, but I
catch myself and I'll be walkingby and like I'll look in a
mirror.
Not that I'm vain, because,believe me, I I know my
(09:12):
limitations of how I look.
You know, I know that and um,but I can see myself and I can.
Yes, I'm happy when I mean I'venoticed that literally I've,
you know, walked down thestreets and people.
I'm always wondering.
If you must look at her, whatthe hell is going on.
Who's she smiling to?
You know you're by, you know,walk down the streets and people
.
I'm always wondering peoplemust look at her and go.
What the hell is going on.
Who is she smiling to?
You know you're by yourself,you know, and um.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
How about those pictures that you post Did?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
you.
It's because of people like you.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Excuse me, I say the pictures, like the recent
pictures that you also sent us.
Um, I was always wondering whoteach you to post like.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
See look at that smile.
I have a friend and she justthinks you see me in some
locations.
You're wondering why are you inthe middle of this ghetto?
Or why are you?
Why are in the middle of thisghetto, or why are you guys?
You know inner city or whatever, and she'll just drive and
(10:15):
we'll she'll go carry.
Let's get out.
We're gonna take some picturesof you so she.
She helped you how to pose andeverything I think I kind of I
mean she's helped me because shewas kind of a model, but she
goes.
I don't really have anything toteach.
I I mean, I just kind of do it.
I just try not to fall down,you know, if I do my cross legs
a certain way.
So the fact that you would evensay that, thank you very much
(10:36):
you.
The thing that we don't talk about too much as a
community is that when wetransition, those around us also
transition, and so it took me54 years to come to terms, and
so it'll take other people awhile as well, and I try to
remember that.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
you know that it wasn't I mean, this was coming
Right and they could tell.
And you know I could.
You know my voice was kind ofchanging because I was working
with that.
You know, I think one timethere was mascara still left in
my eyes one time.
Telltale signs, and so I, justfrom that end, I got to remember
(00:41):
that this is a big change.
I've lost some friends, youknow, and that's okay.
They just have to recognizethat.
You know, this is me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Right, how was it coming out at work?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This is an ongoing thing and Shelby knows a little
bit about it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, how did you come out at work during COVID?
That's the headline for you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, yeah, it happened the day that I was
Michelle and, you know, the daythat I was supposed to come out,
I was going to meet mymanagement and I figured the
time was right because I was upfor a job that would have been
less client-facing or, you know,chief operations officer or
whatever.
(01:25):
But the day that I went was theday that, basically, the
country shut down and our globalHR director had to fly back to
London and she goes listen, Ican't be with you, I'm out of
here, okay, because I won't beable to get back.
So I continued and, um, it'sbeen a bit of a balancing act.
(01:50):
Um, and shelby, you don't know.
You know it has been kind ofcoming out, you know, because we
are getting ready to go back tothe office and yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
so before we go back, before you go back to the
office and you just do Zoommeeting, right?
Yeah, do you tell us about thatfunny story that you told me?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So I would just, you know, I would maybe wipe my
lipstick off.
I make myself, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You don't show videos , right.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yes, and I go really close, you know, and I wear
darker glasses and it'd bedarker in the room and I didn't
really change my voice, thinkingback on it, but we didn't.
The irony was we didn't have asmany Zoom calls, I think if you
have a client that couldn't doit as well.
And.
But there had been moments.
(02:40):
You know where I laugh aboutthis.
But there had been moments.
You know where I laugh aboutthis.
One time I was presenting andit was more of a conference call
.
My slides were up on Zoom and Itend to walk around a bit when
I present and I kept askingabout what's this clicking sound
going on, right, and I'm likeall right, and then after
meeting I'm walking around, I gooh wait, a minute, that's my
(03:06):
heels, you know.
I love it.
So they all thought there wassomething wrong.
So they're all checking her.
You know what's going on,because I was talking and
presenting and you know I use myhands to walk around, but it
has been a bit of a, you know.
I mean I don't think it's evergoing to be the big surprise.
You know there's some peoplethat haven't.
I have come out with somecoworkers.
(03:29):
One didn't really take it verywell, but most of them have.
You know we are getting readyfor, unfortunately, a big,
massive downsizing and I don'tknow how I'm going to work my
way through it.
(03:50):
You know I didn't want to?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Is the company supportive overall?
Do they have insurance plans?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, well, yeah, I'm not going to tell you much
where I'm at or what group.
Sure, they talk a lot about it.
You know, our clients talkabout diversity, right, dei DEI,
yeah, but to put it in actionis a whole different deal.
Totally Right, they'll do their.
(04:18):
I mean, I'm going to be bluntyou know they'll do their little
dinners and you know they'llbring out the former president
of the company, who's gay, andthey'll bring them out.
You know they pay him.
He's retired and they'll payhim.
You know, and so it's a littlebit of a.
You know, no troop out.
You know, and I'd gone to thosebefore.
I had, um, yeah, and I go, okay, I know this I'm, you know I'm
(04:47):
not, you know I'm not naive, andso, you know, you just talk
your way through it.
I think that the decision needsto be made.
I mean, you know I, you knowmyself and others, you know
salaries of.
You know somebody that you usedto play golf with walk around
(05:09):
the clubhouse, right, you knowshowers and everything, and all
of a sudden like, oh, wait aminute, you know what happened,
and so yeah, so what do youanticipate when you go back to
the office?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Sounds like that will be soon.
I did have my first meeting.
Go back to the office.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Sounds like that will be soon.
I did have my first meeting.
I finally was able to.
I had some Zoom calls with mymanagement and the board.
Last Tuesday I got a call and Ilearned to meet with me in the
(05:44):
morning and I kind of go okay,this could go two ways, but it
went well.
It was a nice discussion.
We'll see.
I you know, I think, like Isaid, so much has changed from a
corporate standpoint, the stuffthat's going on.
You know in Ukraine.
You know we basically had towalk away from our you know our
investments in, you know inRussia, Wow, and had to shut
(06:10):
those things down and that's asignificant amount, right and um
, just like everybody else.
So well, you know it's a.
I guess you could say thismichelle, I'm sorry, um, it's in
process got you okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
so now, um, on your facebook I'm gonna switch gear
to to you more back to yourpersonal life.
So on your Facebook I see yougo out a lot like with different
girls and clubs.
So how's Michigan when you goout, do you feel safe?
And how about bathroom orpronouns, what do they?
(06:45):
Are they understanding you.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
There are some places that are kind of hard.
Nobody's ever yelled at me whenI've had to use the right
restroom.
Nobody said get out of here.
But you know, it's not as ifI'm going to a certain place.
I mean, I'm going to placesthat I know are going to be safe
.
This would be accepting.
But I do try.
As I was saying earlier, I dotry to.
(07:11):
I want to live a normal life andthis is my normal life right
and so I didn't want to bepigeonholed of only going to
trans clubs or gay clubs orwhatever and don't get me wrong,
I love them.
You know, I just want to meetyour friends and everything else
, but at the same time I do havea regular life and I try to to
(07:32):
live that and, um, you know, Imean there's a couple places you
kind of go okay, do I kneel,you don't I want to walk in
there, do I?
you know, and you just kind ofdo it, you're right you know,
and it's like that you, you tryto go and I think, like I said,
I'm lucky because I have friendsthat are transitioning as well,
(07:54):
okay, but I also have cisgenderfriends and you know, I guess
there's comfort in a pack.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
How has therapy been a part of your process?
Have you been counseling, orhow has that worked for you?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
It's been great.
I think that I tried, withoutdoing it, and I realized I
couldn't.
I knew that I had to get alittle help.
There's that stigma, right.
Yeah, you know, and especiallywhen you kind of get into this,
it's a little easier.
I mean, I can't stand, I can'tsay.
(08:30):
I haven't had my moments whereI've had to have that, um, oh my
gosh, I gotta, I gotta see herright away, you know, and so you
go in, yeah, um, but it's beengood, good, and I think it's
just me.
I think it's helped me.
I mean, becoming who I am.
I would hope that I become abetter person, because I think
there's so many other things inmy life that just make more
(08:52):
sense.
Right, you know, I just sithere and I I'd like to think I'm
a better person.
I do know I smile way too much.
I saw it with somebody thatpeople were saying this, but I
catch myself and I'll be walkingby and like I'll look in a
mirror.
Not that I'm vain, because,believe me, I I know my
(09:12):
limitations of how I look.
You know, I know that and um,but I can see myself and I can.
Yes, I'm happy when I mean I'venoticed that literally I've,
you know, walked down thestreets and people.
I'm always wondering.
If you must look at her, whatthe hell is going on.
Who's she smiling to?
You know you're by, you know,walk down the streets and people
.
I'm always wondering peoplemust look at her and go.
What the hell is going on.
Who is she smiling to?
You know you're by yourself,you know, and um.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
How about those pictures that you post Did?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
you.
It's because of people like you.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Excuse me, I say the pictures, like the recent
pictures that you also sent us.
Um, I was always wondering whoteach you to post like.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
See look at that smile.
I have a friend and she justthinks you see me in some
locations.
You're wondering why are you inthe middle of this ghetto?
Or why are you?
Why are in the middle of thisghetto, or why are you guys?
You know inner city or whatever, and she'll just drive and
(10:15):
we'll she'll go carry.
Let's get out.
We're gonna take some picturesof you so she.
She helped you how to pose andeverything I think I kind of I
mean she's helped me because shewas kind of a model, but she
goes.
I don't really have anything toteach.
I I mean, I just kind of do it.
I just try not to fall down,you know, if I do my cross legs
a certain way.
So the fact that you would evensay that, thank you very much
(10:36):
you.
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