The Unseen Side of Political Debates: Jubilee Stars Speak Out

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Transparency Podcast Show.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to the Transparency Podcast Show.
It is your girl, blossom CBrown, hello, hello.
And I am here with my wonderful, fabulous co-host, with the
mostest Shane, ivan Nash.
What's going on?
You know Where's our hand clap.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
You know, I don't know where our hand clap is.
There it is.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
You know I don't play about the hand clap.
I love that.
Yes, yes, welcome to the showy'all.
And so if you are new to ourchannel, make sure you hit the
subscribe button down below, sothat way you'll know when we're
on the air.
Now, honey.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Today.
I'm excited about the gueststhat we have in today, so from a
few Jubilee videos you mayrecognize these faces.
Today on the TransparencyPodcast Show, we have Greg, yeah
, and we got Ryan in the studio.
Hello, welcome to theTransparency Podcast Show.

(01:03):
Y'all how, y'all doing.
I'm good you look fabulous andmoisturize thank you, I did I
have for me it's oily skin, likepeople are like.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I mean like I'm older than I look, and people like
how are you aging?
So I'm like my skinself-moisturizes, that's, that's
it.
I occasionally get acne becauseof it, but I'll never dry out.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
So that was my first impression of you.
I was like this guy's oily.
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Wait, did you write it down your notepad?

Speaker 2 (01:30):
where is your notepad ?

Speaker 3 (01:32):
that is your trademark.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
I told you that you know people have recognized the
brand.
They've been like is that like?
I don't even.
I don't even know what thebrand is, I don't remember, but
they're like is that like a blahblah and I'm like I feel like
that.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
No, wasn't it like a rocket journal or something?

Speaker 4 (01:45):
yeah, like, like it's like it's like you can erase it
not that I knew sounds like uh,you had your first brand
partnership in the pipeline,maybe, maybe yes

Speaker 3 (01:55):
from a branded drink.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, we got this, y'all, we got this.
So y'all were in a few jubileeepisodes, so let me make sure I
get this right.
Yeah, so we did the MichaelKnowles debate together.
You both did 20 and 20, or wasit 25 and 25 with Shane?
And then you and I did 30 and30 together, so we've all
crisscrossed each other.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
And then we did Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh yeah, we did.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Thank you for that.
I think was that the episodewhere you turned the chair
around.
Was that it?
Yeah, yeah, so honestly, I sawyour plumber's butt crack before
I saw you, I know, and I waslike I Where's the button?
I knew you were right there too, I was like fall, I was like.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I was like it's a German thing, though Did you
know that that like butt cracks?
Well, we apparently have longerbutt cracks.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
So junk in the trunk is what I heard.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's the tallest you'll go.
So listen, I love you.
You called me out on that.
We're talking about butt cracksand everything today, so how
has life been since y'all havedone these Jubilee episodes?
Let's talk about it.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
Yes, very good.
Yeah, I went on Jubilee verykind of randomly and it worked
out exactly as I hoped.
I had a crazy experience, Imade friends and I feel like I'm
a little bit improved.
The outcome of the video, maybe, and those were kind of my
three goals.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I was like uh, I, my goal has been ultimate.
Like before the last election,I had been saying that my goal
was to, like, inherit the dailyshow from whoever's hosting it,
and so I could see you.
I mean, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Why are you not a correspondent already?
You have the fucking haircut,the fuck.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
It's a whole thing.
I mean like it's a reallycompetitive thing, just to be a
yeah, you know and let's put itinto ether now?
Yes, done so like I've goneback, like I did stand-up comedy
in college briefly and I gotback into it this year because
you know I've seen some of yourclips are funny I appreciate
that.
Yeah, I mean the the thing about, uh, stand-up is like it's.
It's I mean it takes a lot ofballs to stay up there.

(04:00):
Like I've seen people bomb andit's like, actually I saw this
guy bomb once.
He was like he handled it likea pro.
It's like I want to be likethat anytime I fuck up in my
life.
I just want to handle it like apro, you know.
But Jubilee has got a bigaudience and it's you know, it's
kind of one of those things.
Like you know, if you believein the law of attraction, like I
am totally jealous of some ofy'all who have gotten on to like
traditional media from thatCause I haven't yet what I have

(04:30):
had, though.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I think I'm the only one here.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Wait a second.
No, I got an interview from thevice president, that's right.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh, is that all?

Speaker 3 (04:39):
of the Hollywood reporter.
Okay, make sure to shout thatout.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Um, wood reporter.
Okay, make sure to shout thatout, right, okay, um, so shout
out to liz.
I've been I've been recognizedin public a few times since, and
the first time that had neverhappened to me before.
I was in, uh, tribeca, I think,somewhere in the lower manhattan
, and I was I had put my my, myshoe up on a planter to retie my
shoelace I think it was theseshoes and somebody popped.
It was like a bush had a bushin it and somebody popped his
head around the bush and theplayer was like Ryan and I was

(05:06):
like, oh god, this is somebody Ididn't respond to on Grindr and
he was like and he was like canI get a picture?

Speaker 4 (05:18):
I was like I wonder if he just lives in that bush
just watching Jubilee.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
I mean listen sometimes, sometimes to live in
New York, you, you have to livein a bush.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
He's using that mall because they have like outlets.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Ryan just regularly visits that bush.
He's actually making anothertrip to visit the bush right now
.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Anytime I have to pee , I'm like where's that bush?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Ciao, hilarious.
Now, what about you, greg, like, how has life been?
And where is your pen and pad?
Because that is your signature,by the way.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
I know I'm kind of mad.
You didn't bring it today.
Sorry guys, I wanted to see thesecrets inside.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
It's the pen and pad on the inside that counts.
That was good.
I mean like I do all this stuffjust like I do things for a
funny story.
And then all this stuff, justlike I do things for a funny
story and then I backfill ineverything else, like yeah, like
I won't do slang for a funnystory, like if it's like
unethical or like ridiculous,but like, but like I, I just
have been doing side quests.

(06:14):
So, and that is that is whythere's jubilee, that is
everything fun.
And then, in terms of like yeah, in terms of like more serious
stuff, it's going good.
You know, I'm uh, I'm marriedand that's going well.
Um, I thank you.
I, um, I've been doing likesome academic stuff.
That's fun.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I actually I I might be working on a, an academic
paper with someone because ofjubilee, yeah, which is crazy so
for those y'all that didn'tknow, apparently in our debate
with blair white, someone madean academic paper, because greg
brought it to our attention.
Yeah, apparently you're gonnabe.
You may be working with there'sa guy who went to k.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
He's he was.
He got his phd from cambridgeand now he's at like university
of exeter, I think, and he wrotethis, this analysis the uk with
this yeah yeah, blair, whiteshit, I just I just googled.
I just googled like likejubilee trans, just to it popped
up and it was like it was likea, like a, like an academic
paper in an academic journalwhere he analyzed the

(07:12):
interactions did they analyzethis?
well, yeah yeah, it was reallyinteresting.
So.
So basically what what he saidwas like and it's not you know I
I had to kind of google a lotof words to understand it but
basically what this guy wassaying was like in his opinion,
Blair White, being aconservative, really wants
people to be sort of sorted intobuckets and into sort of like

(07:35):
hierarchies, and the thing thatBlair doesn't like is when the
trans community welcomes peoplewho don't respect like gender
hierarchies and gender binaries.
And so it was talking about Ithink there was a non-binary
person there and Blair was like.
Blair was yeah, and Blair was.

(07:56):
It was like you know this, I'mremembering this kind of loosely
, but it was like Blair did notlike the idea of this non-binary
person being included in thetrans community yeah, Whereas
Blossom was like why not?
And the assertion of the authorwas that this is a reflection
of Blair's kind of broader, likeconservative ideology, Because

(08:16):
Blair wants the trans communitymapped over existing sort of
rules within kind ofconservative thought and she
wants to tweak them just enoughto allow trans people to sort of
you know, enter the party, butwithout kind of challenging the
more un kind of core underlyingstructural things of it, so it's
really interesting and I wrotehim an email I wrote him emails

(08:37):
like hey, like I just want tolet you know like I read your
paper, like I think it's cooland um.
and then he said that there's atype of paper in his field where
you basically just interviewsomeone and publish it as an
academic paper.
And he was like hey, what doyou want to do that and submit
it together?
And I was like okay, so we'llsee.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
We'll see.
I didn't read the whole paper,but did it talk about
evolutionary psychology at all?

Speaker 4 (08:58):
I think so.
The main windows he looks atthings through are really
interesting.
One's called Hauntology, whichis like ghosts, how we're
haunted by the past.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
I was reading a little bit of what she sent me.
I was like what is this?

Speaker 4 (09:14):
And then the other one is Monster Theory, which is
how monsters represent our fears.
An example is Godzilla is arepresentation of fears of
nuclear war, and that's onereason, and so it's like he just
looks at things through this.
It's almost like a.
That's an interesting lens.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well, especially appropriate.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Godzilla, I think, is originated in Japan and have a
very real relationship with.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
Exactly, Exactly.
So we see, we see these thingsthat you know upset us or
traumatize us, kind ofrepresented symbolically.
So it's really interesting andI have really bad ADHD, so I was
just going down the Wikipediarabbit hole ADHD.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
I feel like it's a superpower.
I love it, I agree.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
And my ADHD meds are like.
Have you seen the movieLimitless with Bradley Cooper?

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
It's like, that's how I feel, like I'm like I opened
up the other 90% of my brain.
Let's go.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
I use caffeine for that, because I got I was on
ADHD meds forever and then likeI couldn't get them because the
the pharmacist would like nottell me if they had it in stock,
and then like my whole liferevolved around like getting.
Yeah, so I just, but I just, Ijust.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
I caffeine.
I'm learning more about adhd.
I do not have adhd, but mypartner does, and so it's been a
very interesting journey so far, like learning the different
aspects of it, learning the goodside of it and the not so good
side of it.
So yeah you know, I definitelyencourage all of us yeah to keep
learning from each other.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, be friends with what you are.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, I love that.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Oh my God, when you are fully commodified, I feel
like I needed to see a rainbow.
Yeah, you have a range ofproducts that are branded with
you.
You're going to have a calendarthat has statements like that
that you've said yeah, exactly,thank you, I love that.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
Thank you, I love that yeah the reason I ask about
psychology is because, you know, as mammals, like we, evolved
to put people in boxes.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
That's how we navigate the world around us.
Yeah, and the the great leap ofhuman psychology is that we have
these higher thinking skills,where we do better than that
yeah, that's not how we'reprogrammed right, but we
consciously choose to do better,and what people like blair
white do is they consciouslychoose to defend the
evolutionary thing we were doing, you know, tens of thousands of
years ago.
Instead of, like expanding whatwe're capable of as a species,
they want to defend theevolutionary thing we were doing
, you know, tens of thousands ofyears ago.
Instead of like expanding whatwe're capable of as a species,

(11:28):
they want to defend what wealready have done, and that's a
great way to not grow yeah, butblair white is a grifter in my
opinion, just like buck angel is, I think.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, we've got grifters on the left side too.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
I mean, if you see the unfuck america tour.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
That whole situation has been just exploding yeah,
but I think people on the leftat griff, I think it's a lot
different and a lot lessdetrimental than the ones on the
right.
I don't know, I mean I think.
So that's what's been like inmy experience and I think for me
, and I think, and the reasonwhy I say this is because I'm
thinking about the amount oftimes I've been attacked and who

(12:03):
it's coming from.
So for me and my experience,when Blair White and Buck Angel
talk the stupid shit that theytalk True.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Their audience is more viscerally filled with hate
.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
I've never seen that like that.
Now with the left I don'texperience it as much Like if
there is some hating on the leftor whatever.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
But there's a lot of anti-blackness.
That goes on, oh, on both sides.
I think there's a behavioralnorm in on in culture on the
left, of being not so aggressive, not being not so like, uh lean
in hateful.
So I think I think we on theleft probably have a similar
proportion of people who arehateful, but they express it
differently because the cultureon the left is not so as overtly
aggressive as it is on theright.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
You know, but here's the thing, though and I talk to
you all the time about this Allfour of us usually go on
conservative platforms to talkand debate and all of the things
, or whatever, but do you feelthat the left platforms us
enough, or any, in this matter?
Because I don't feel like theleft platforms my voice, and I

(13:08):
really wanted to know from allthree of y'all, like, what are
your thoughts on?

Speaker 4 (13:12):
that for really quick .
So I know that blair, white,trans conservative buck angel
and all is he also yeah he's afool.
Okay, okay, um, no wait youknow, how do you?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
feel about you don't want to describe him and buck
angel when you keep making themvideos about me.
Just know I'm all on the transconservative platforms, on the
conservative platforms in yourface, yeah, but yeah so no, I
think I think generally like Iam.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
I am a cisgender white gay guy.
I have my pinky, like my partof my pinky fingernail, dipped
into marginalization.
It's like I could not be lessmarginalized while still being
marginalized.
Right, it's like I have thesmallest little bit of that and
like I, I explain that, can youlike?
Yes, seriously for the othergay white men that have no clue,
because I'm like, oh my god,yeah yeah, so like I grew up in

(14:00):
a like a country club republicanhousehold, uh you know, was no
financial stress there.
Um, so you know what it's liketo get a 500 driver yeah, okay,
yeah, I know a lot of thesethings, yeah, and um and uh and
I like I, you know, I I came atthe time now, like people, I
think I'm like a gaydar, likecalibration test, like if you

(14:20):
can't tell that I'm gay, likeyour gaydar's off.
But like when I was a kid, likewhen I was a kid, like when I
was a kid, like no one people atthat time had a very like
stereotypical, narrow idea of ofgay people.
So I, you know, obviously theystill do, but more than and so
like I didn't, I I wasn't likequeer coded back then, like I, I
got to be just like a straightwhite guy, right, and then I I

(14:42):
was, very ironically, I was, Iwas very homophobic because I
was, you know, kind of raisedrejection.
I was raised, oh yeah, becauselike I think.
I think I think we're raised.
That's the thing, like I think alot of people on the left don't
like not to sidebar away fromthe representation which the
ultimate thing we're talkingabout here, but like I think
that there's this sort ofcontradiction on the left where
a lot of people on the left willbe like you know what?

(15:04):
There is this steady, likeinculcation of prejudice, where
the way that the words we use,the media we see, advertisements
, jokes, social norms,everything is just constantly
slowly, just like like an ivdrip of prejudice into us, um,

(15:24):
and it warps how we see theworld, and I think a lot of left
leftists would agree with that.
But then you meet somebody whomight be the consequence of that
process and, yes, they might belike an unrepentant bigot, but
it's like I think a lot ofpeople on the left don't
consider the possibility that.
Well, if we believe in thisprocess, that's like

(15:44):
brainwashing people.
Maybe some people you meet havebeen brainwashed and maybe
they're not sort of likeintrinsically or reprobably
horrific people in terms oftheir intentions, in terms of
their potential.
And I learned that when Irealized I was gay, because I
was very homophobic and I woulddescribe society as very
homophobic and I think that mademe very homophobic and I would

(16:05):
describe society as veryhomophobic and I think that made
me very homophobic.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Was it internalized?

Speaker 4 (16:09):
It was both yeah, so that was the thing I had to come
out to myself and also likesocial norms.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Like you're amongst your peers and you didn't want
to be isolated.
And that's true.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
There's so many layers to it One of the earliest
like schoolyard jokes Iremember and this was from you
know.
I think it's probably like thefifth grade was.
It's very vulgar, it was likeit was right wrong.
Fun to watch.
And it's like it's like kidswith guns.
I mean it's still true.
No, I'm, and it's like, it'slike, it's like.

(16:40):
Just think about it's like.
It's like, that's just so,that's so like, just like a
casual come happy, I don't carejoke you know what I mean.
It's like it's just in so manyways so yeah.
So I, I realized I was gay andthen I realized that, you know,
I went, it's like multiple yearprocess of like deprogramming
myself, yeah, from prejudice,and then I realized, okay, if I

(17:00):
was so off, I was in suchanother universe about how I
understood this before Irealized I was a part of it.
Now let me think about all theother groups.
I'm not a part of right, I'mnot a woman, I'm not a person of
color, I'm not trans, I'm notdisabled, I'm not and it's like
okay, like you can just think ofso many.
You know, I, I didn't grow up,uh, I, I grew up like very

(17:23):
economically comfortable, likeall these things where it's like
okay.
I probably don't understandthat the same way I did not
understand this, and so that'swhat I mean by like I have like
my pinky finger dipped inmarginalization.
It's like I have to.
I extract, I extrapolated outhow much I must not understand

(17:44):
the experiences of all theseother groups from my experience
of essentially transitioninginto a marginalized group.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
So I so want to take it down further a tangent about
privilege.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
No, no, please, it's about tangents.
It's tangent time, and we'llall find a way to land it.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
I love that.
Well, this is, I mean.
Privilege is something that Ithink about a lot, and the first
thing I'll say is I have afriend who who describes the
responsibility of cisgender, gaywhite men in society is like a
sacred duty, because we straddlea line of privilege and
adversity and we are, and alsobecause most humans are

(18:23):
conditioned to trust white men.
We have more influence on theway other people think than most
people, and which I kind ofwhich is true.
I've felt the privilege whenit's it's real, yeah, which kind
of creates conflict sometimeswith people who aren't cisgender
white men in progressive spaces, and it's a whole thing about

(18:47):
like who should be speaking whenand where and why.
But you know, blossom and I onthe way here, we're talking
about human behavior like this,as a society is like a is a
complex system and it takesmultiple attack angles to change
a complex system.
And I think it takes all theabove.
And the other thing aboutprivilege that I think is really
interesting is that we think ofprivilege as like a binary

(19:08):
scale and it's maybe eachindividual identifier, gender
identity, our ethnicity andstuff.
But really a person's kind ofprofile of privilege is really
complex and it has to do withthings like how were you raised
socioeconomically, no-transcript, our privileges and moving

(19:50):
target, but that's what it is.
And when you contrast that with, like, our biology compels us
to maintain whatever privilegewe feel like we have and and
honestly, to to, to, to, to, to,to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,
to, to, to, to, to, tocategorize everybody else we
interact with, it's really humanbehavior becomes really complex
.
So I try to give people who arenot as back when we could say,

(20:14):
woke without having weightpeople who don't get it.
I try to give them a lot ofgrace because it's really
actually kind of complicated andit's hard to get if you don't
live it.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, and I think we have to talk about the privilege
within the oppressed groups.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Like me, for example.
Obviously I am the one with theleast privilege here, but I'm
also the one that's going tohave to work harder than each
and every one of you to be ableto get to the same goals.
And for me, I have to thinkabout my privilege, even though
I'm black and I'm trans and Ihave all of these things about
me.
I also understand that I have aprivilege that some trans and

(20:49):
non-binary people do not get tohave.
But for me, like I've been oncamera for over a decade now,
being able to speak my truth andhave these platforms, and you
know, like we've done theseJubilee debates and I was the
one they pushed on Pierce Morganand Dr Phil and I've done all
these things and I'm very proudof it.
But I know a lot of my transsiblings have not, and there

(21:10):
have been times where some of myblack trans sisters have
actually called me out on myprivilege and they were just
like you know, um, you and Iwere both at the CNN town hall
thing.
I remember that and when I gotup and I protested, um, I got a
lot of criticism from some of myblack trans sisters were like,
well, if that had been anotherblack trans woman who dressed a
certain way or acts a certainway or whatever, they would have

(21:33):
just gotten dragged off stage.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, yeah, but that's an example of like the
fluctuation of privilege, andlike there is not a lot of
utility in trying to humbleourselves with our privilege,
because we have the privilege wehave, and like a form of
privilege is being extroverted.
Yeah, a form of privilege isbeing confident.
A form of privilege is beingextroverted.
Yeah, a form of privilege isbeing confident.
A form of privilege is beingarticulate, and if that's the
skill set that you have, ifthat's who you are as a person,
there's no reason to to dim yourlight that doesn't help anybody

(21:57):
but people who don't have thatand envy it.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
They take it as an affront sometimes and I think,
uh, one of the talking pointswas I get to say whatever I want
to say, no matter howcontroversial it is, and people
think I don't experienceconsequences, like had it been
an ordinary trans person thatsaid the same thing, they would
have lost more.
I can admit I have privilege inthat realm where you know, even

(22:23):
at that debate or whatever,like you had three other trans
women, three other Latina transwomen being dragged off the
stage with security, but thenwith the one black trans girl, I
got to say whatever I needed tosay.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Well, to be fair, though, blossom your
presentation, the way youapproached it, like yeah, it was
a, it was a moment you knowlike, and you know how to grab
moments in a way that othersdon't.
Again, which is a form ofprivilege, is to be able to
command the stage in that way,because, again it goes back to
the confidence conversation alot of people don't even have

(22:56):
the confidence to stand up anddo what you did.
So that's that layer ofprivilege that I think some
people can look at you and belike, yeah, I could never do one
thing.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Thank you for communicating.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
That's what I'm trying to say I told you I'll
find a way to land it.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
Two things that I think should important not to
get lost in this, as well as one, like you're right, like the
kind of heuristics we use thatwe've kind of evolved to use
like kind of evolutionaryshortcuts in our thinking um are
natural right, but naturalisn't good right.
That's part of being a modernperson, that's why we have
socialized.
Yeah, like, that's why we learn.
Like, like it's it.

(23:29):
If you look in nature, you know, um, murder is natural, right,
but we, we learn, we learn, we.
Part of part of the project ofbeing a socialized, civilized
human being is to rise above ournature.
And also in terms of, likethese types of privilege, right,
I think it's true, definitely,like um, for example, I am very
close to being like a psychowith how little social anxiety I

(23:51):
have, and that's just how I amnaturally right and that's
helpful and we can look at allthese kind of different forms of
privilege.
I think it's also important toremember that when we're talking
about intersectionality, like,it's still the case that, like I
am, you know, a very sociallyconfident white guy.
Am you know a very sociallyconfident white guy?

(24:13):
Um, I am more privileged thansomeone who is like me in every
way other than if they were notwhite, right.
So, like, I think sometimes notthat you guys do this, but I
think sometimes people kind ofconjure up this fog of like,
well, like, everyone hasdifferent advantages and
different, differentdisadvantages, right, you mean,
all lives matter and it's likeit's like, it's like you, you
have to remember that like, yeah, it's it's, you know, you could
come up with these, uh, youknow, kind of like hypotheticals

(24:35):
, like oprah versus like ahomeless white guy, whatever,
but like, but like, generallyspeaking.
Um, when it comes to thesefault lines of, uh, gender, of
race, of, you know, cisgender,transgender, it's very clear
that, on balance, as a whole,there are certain groups that
are just less.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Well, yeah, that's yes, but yes, and I should say
it's important to pay attentionto the nuance, because we are
all conditioned to defend ourstruggles and people tend to
trade on their struggles likecurrency.
Like people talk about who hasit worse People we admire people

(25:15):
who have it worse.
Like we remember someone whowon a marathon with a false, you
know, like with a legattachment as opposed to an
organic leg.
We admire that because it'sadversity, it's a thing we value
, and so, when we a non-starter,a great way to end a
conversation with someone whoseheart and mind you want to
change is to point out to themhow much more privilege they
have than they think they have.

(25:35):
Because, and when we have, whenpeople, when oppressed peoples
have conversations about who hasit worse, the only party that,
like, gets something positiveout of that is the oppressor.
Like that is the conversationthe oppressor wants us to have
Divide yourselves, so we don'thave to do it for you.
Like, get something positiveout of that is the oppressor.
Like that is the conversationthe oppressor wants us to have
Divide yourselves, so we don'thave to do it for you, you know?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with having
privilege.
I feel it's how you use it.
Yes, and.
I think there's a lot of peoplewith bigger platforms that use
it irresponsibly Totally and Ifeel like the smaller folks,
like you and I I'm not thatsmall anymore.

(26:14):
Well, that's small anymore.
Well, here's the thing.
And when I say, when I saysmaller folks, I mean the
underdogs, yeah, I mean the mostoverlooked, the most tick tock.
But we're out there and I just,and I just feel like it makes
my job harder as an activistwhen you have people with larger
platforms than me not usingtheir privilege to help other
people or to be able to shine alight on issues.
It makes my job a lot harder.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
But yeah, I'm invested in this work, like the
rest of all of us are well, it'sthe issue with money being
involved in activism, um, andcontent creators and activists.
Because, like the internet hasgotten a bit murky with folks
thinking that just because youhave a large platform and you
speak all the beautiful wordsthat you've learned from the

(26:53):
dictionary and you've learnedthe diction and you've learned
this, that and the other, butyou don't have the lived
experience behind what you'resaying or even access to, like,
friends that have experiencedthat, so you're just
regurgitating something withnothing behind it.
Like it creates these contentcreators where they have
millions of followers.
Yeah, and that's what happenedwith the unfuck America tour,
which it's being revealed allover the FYP, of this going

(27:16):
wrong and that going wrongbecause you don't have people
that are genuinely in it, in away that have something to lose,
who have organized you knowstuff like that.
Like again, my pitch for itwhat I think they should do is
they should rename the tour.
You know what I mean?
Unfuck is not going to work.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Who are we talking about?
You're also not going to getpress with it.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
No, you're not going to get press with it, let's just
say names.
It's the Dean Withers Parkertour thing that they're going to
follow charlie kirk around anddo that whole situation.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
They're going to booty clap to charlie kirk.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, problematic, unconsenting ass exactly with
everything that continues tocome out my drink that gummy
bear man, um, and that.
And I looked at the camera whenI said, like, as an, as an
organizer, an activist, assomebody who's actually like,
changed things, laws, you knowall of these things.
What are they doing by chasingthis man around, like for me and

(28:12):
I've already pitched it on mytiktok, I'm gonna pitch it right
here I think what they shoulddo is create their own tour,
rename it, um, and then also notjust do political debates.
I think there should be like asports element to it as well,
like.
I think that, like, because Ireally would want to play a 1v1,
charlie Kirk, anything you wantto do basketball, baseball,
swimming, golf let's play.

(28:33):
Charlie, I'm literally callingyou out and I will debate you
afterwards, but you have to playsports with me first, because I
want to see what you can do,because I don't even think you
can swing a bat.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Stay away from me, charlie Kirk.
I don't want to debate you, butI want to say something.
I want to comment on somethingthat you said you.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
But I want to say something.
I want to comment on something.
No, I want to play sports, butI want to get into these college
spaces, right, and I want thisgroup to really start fortifying
relationships with these callin the same way that charlie did
yeah, bring these kids in andand have political debates and
actually maybe even do like anafter party where they're like
actually doing like a socialthing afterwards, so you're
interacting with the people.
So it's not just, hey, I'mgoing to come to your college

(29:09):
and tell you what I think and,and if you don't, we're gonna
clip, farm you and theneverybody's gonna shame you on
the internet.
But meanwhile it's like whatare you?
What is the goal?
Like there's no goal.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Let me say something to what you said about um lived
experience.
I think that's really reallyimportant, because there is a
difference between not a transperson on the tour there is a
difference between commentaryand then somebody with lived
experience talking about theirexperience and sometimes as
being a political commentatormyself, like when I have to talk
about issues that are not abouttrans women.
I try to keep that in mind andme and my partner my partner's

(29:41):
trans masculine we've beenhaving a lot of conversations
about like trans men and how Ishould approach certain
conversations as someone thatdoes not live that experience,
but somebody that needs tocommentate on trans issues,
because trans men issues aretrans issues.
So I also have to preparemyself for that and I've always

(30:04):
wanted to talk about this.
It's so weird because sometimeswhen I go on these platforms,
especially these conservativeones, they have a habit of
throwing somebody else's livedexperience at me, backing me
against a wall, because theyknow I don't have that lived
experience to talk about it.
I feel instead y'all shouldstop being lazy and just add on

(30:27):
people who have that livedexperience.
But I have to remember in a lotof conservative spaces they
don't want to do that work and Ifeel like it's more erasure on
the liberal side too.
So like both sides do thisthing where they're playing ping
pong with each other.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
The liberal, like let's be real and let's call it
out for exactly what it is.
You know, if you don't fit acertain marker of you, meet this
, that and the other with acertain amount of followers and
you don't have this, and da, da,da, da, da.
And it's like, and you don'tact a certain way.
It's like you and I cuss.
You know what I mean.
People look at us and go ohgirl we know I don't listen girl
.
No, we don't like whatever thethe.

(31:03):
This model is right, but thething that, like I'm not quite
understanding is, like thatmodel did not win us the
election.
We need to shift as a party,and there's been so many people
that reach out to me personallythat say what I did to Ben
Shapiro they wish they saw thatmore in the Democratic Party.
Because I mean with with whathappened at the education, where
they were like, oh, there's asecurity guard, what are we

(31:23):
going to push him over?
Like make a move.
Like go to jail for a night.
Like you have enough money topay that bail.
Like bernie sanders, back inthe day, got arrested left and
right, like what happened to ourpoliticians.
Like there's, there's.
We have to put some teeth onour side too, and you and I, I
feel like, have inspired a lotof people on our side, but
they're not quite catching onyet because we haven't quite hit

(31:46):
whatever threshold goal intheir mind, that we haven't
reached a certain following.
But but like I don't think youguys need to realize you need to
get on the train now, becauseBlossom and I are trying to
change the party, because wewant to win the election.
We do not want to deal withthis bullshit and we have to
face the things that areactually going on head on.
We cannot create this like PR,like oh, let's put this person
on and that person on andsomehow we're going to get votes
.
Because no, because, likethere's real systemic issues

(32:08):
going on with people that areblue collar.
I work, one of my jobs is awarehouse job, so I work in in
the shit.
I'm working a very mask roughjob, unloading a 13 panel truck
in a day with one other guy, youknow, and it's it's.
It's not an easy job, but I'malso.
That's why I have the opinionsthat I do, because I have my ear

(32:31):
to the ground on what it's likein the economy for how people
are struggling, what it's liketo even have health insurance
but you can't even go see thedoctor because you can't even
pay the copay.
So what's the point of havinghealth insurance?
So what's the point of havingthe job?
It's like people don't havethat kind of on-the-ground, real
experience and a lot of theseinfluencers don't, because
they're just panhandling on theinternet for fucking you know

(32:53):
pennies on a dollar.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
I I so resonate with what you're saying, cause I grew
up in a small town in themountain South, like I grew up
in Tennessee, and the County Igrew up in is the widest and
poorest County in the state, andso I grew up middle-class ish.
But I grew up around a lot ofum, poor and working class white
people and you just can't, ifyou want to win something, you
just can't tell somebody who iswhite, who is living paycheck to

(33:17):
paycheck, who knows what it'slike to be one like you know
speeding ticket away from notbeing able to feed their family
that month.
You just can't tell them.
Well, you know what you have itbetter than some others,
because that's not how.
That's not their livedexperience.
And we don't.
We try to be polite, we try tobe, we try to curate the way we
put ourselves out there, we tryto restrict within our own
communities, we restrict whogets to speak and none of that

(33:40):
works.
There's the thing on the rightthat they do well is that they
are unafraid to get messy, thankyou.
They're unafraid to um, makemistakes, yes, and that's
support the mistakes afterwards.
And and there's also this largersystemic thing of like on the
right, there's a lot more effortto fund that, that, that like
the thing, things thatnonprofits here yeah, so like

(34:01):
content, like the like tours,like Charlie Kirk does, um, all
those kinds of things.
There are people out there whoare trying to find conservative
voices to foster by funding them, and we don't have that on the
left, like I, I, anybody wantsto support us though sponsor
reach out.
The email address is in the well, so I had a I just I just got
denied a grant from a prominentLGBTQ organization that was

(34:22):
soliciting grants for a thing.
It was an event thing the idea.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Is it the one that I think of it?

Speaker 1 (34:28):
probably, it probably is, oh god.
And so, like I pitched them,like I pitched them on this uh
project that I want to do ofcapturing like bite-sized videos
of real trans people tellingtheir stories, because what we
need on the internet, in part,is a whole library of like I
want to flood the zone of realtrans people's stories.
Yeah, um, and I didn't get thatgrant and I don't know yet who
did get it, but it made me thinkwho was reviewing these grants

(34:51):
from LGBTQ applicants thatdidn't look at that and go?
That is something we definitelyneed to fund.
Like what, what?
Why do we have so little moneyto go around and why do we have
so little effort to to have adiverse offering of
opportunities to interact withliberal ideas and LGBTQ people,
etc.
Of opportunities to interactwith uh, liberal ideas and lgbtq

(35:12):
people, etc.
But, like you know, I think 90of uh podcast views or listens
are on right-leaning podcastslike and that's not just.
That's why I built this fuckingthing nobody's doing right and
part, and the biggest reason whyis that a lot of there are so
many more well-funded podcastsbut liberals are not.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
They need to get their shit together.
Yeah, like the democratic partyjust needs to get their shit
together.
We don't get along with eachother.
We're always infighting andnobody can come to a certain can
come to like one conclusion onhow something should be built
and talked about.
They don't have the backboneyeah they came in a lot well to
the conservative party well, Ijust Can.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
I just tap onto that real quick.
The other side of that is wealso don't give anybody grace if
we think they're wrong.
So not only do we have theoffensive part that we don't do.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Moral superiority, perfection yes.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
So we have that offensive thing that doesn't
work and then well, defensivesort of we also don't.
I believe that everybody whoseheart and mind we want to change
deserves as long of an off rampas they need to change.
But what we do we createdcancel culture Like we did that,
for that happened, and what itdoes is divide us more and it
doesn't make us an appealinggroup to want to join.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
But it wasn't necessary.
To a degree it did, cause Ithink it's an evolutionary thing
where we're on the next step ofwhat's next.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
I can't always afford somebody's grace, though.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
It's not required my lived experience.
If you don't get it right andyou know better, I don't have
time to sit up and focus on yourgrace.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
I can't afford it.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
My livelihood cannot afford your grace.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
I mean as a trans person too.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
it can be dangerous as well, and the thing about
this is like we may all be onthe same team, but it doesn't
have to be you two, specifically, that are affording somebody
grits Like tap out.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
You know what I mean.
I have a lot of thoughts onthis.
First with as a whiteprivileged gay man.
Oh my God.
I was just going to say thereason why you didn't get the
yeah, yeah, um, it went to meryan.
Yeah, no, but um, so like likeum, first of all, your earlier

(37:15):
question do you think that thereis an underrepresentation of
people who are not like whitecis guys in the leftist space
debate space?
But absolutely, I completelyagree.
Um, I've.
Actually I was talking tosomebody who is like one of the
bigger, like tiktok debaterpeople about this, just kind of
randomly, with like right intoeach other, and I was like hey,
I know you're what.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
What are they what?

Speaker 4 (37:36):
yeah, yeah, okay and and I I told them I was like I'm
an outsider to this and butlike that can make me not
educated on it.
But it can also be helpful tohave an outsider perspective and
I've noticed that in the debatespace there's this value on
like, this kind of stone face,like you might smirk when you
like, get in a good like attackon somebody, but like you can't
be emotional.
Being emotional is bad and thenlike, for example, in our night

(37:59):
michael knoll's jubilee debate.
One reason I decided to focuson trans issues is because I'm
not trans and it makes it easierfor me to fit those
expectations.
Because it's like, if we'retalking about like, should we
shoot ryan into outer space,who's going to be able to talk
about that calmly?

Speaker 2 (38:16):
me or ryan.
Yeah right, can I?
Can I tell you something aboutthat?
I'll be honest with you.
I struggled with you in thatepisode about talking about
trans issues, and I'm gonnaexplain why yeah it was so funny
because at the end michaelknows chose you because,
ironically, I was in his topthree to debate him one-on-one
ui and, I think, somebody elseyeah, I'd like to think it was

(38:38):
me, but I don't think it was,his team went with with them and
I was totally fine with it.
I felt like, when it came totrans issues, you had a trans
woman there because and therewas a black trans man there, and
it's like with trans issues,it's important to hear the
voices of trans people yes and Ithink in the past, what I've
dealt with is people who arenon-trans taking up space yes

(38:59):
and grifting the trans issues.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
However, I'm making money off of it.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
I'm making money off of it.
However, I do believe it'simportant that non-trans people
do speak up on trans issues,because you will reach an
audience that I can't, and ifyou're able to reach an audience
that I can't reach, I can't bemad and upset with you about
that?

Speaker 4 (39:18):
yeah, well, analysis.
Analysis is not justification.
We're not justifying that thathappens, we're just analyzing.
You're being honest about it?

Speaker 3 (39:24):
yeah, can I offer a solution just to because agree
exactly, but I also agree withwhy.
So the nuance for me, what I,as a trans person, would love to
see, is like if you and anybodywatching, if you're a cis
person speaking on trans issues,maybe reference three other
trans people to go watch andlearn from or even one.

(39:46):
So if you've got a huge platform, you can then channel some of
that energy to that Cause.
If you're going to make somecoin off of that trans person's
words, you should tell us whothe trans person is.
That taught you, or send youraudience to a trans person.
Me, I have got an app as well.
But like send us some coin aswell.
Like the, the idea that you'reusing our lived experience and

(40:10):
then paying your rent.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
That like it's that sucks yeah it's.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
It's crazy when you know you and I are still working
regular jobs and, you know,doing the best we can with what
we got and I just want to makethis very clear like what made
me not struggle with you in theepisode was how you did it and
the things that you said, whichwas really, really, really
important.
I love you to death.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
Like you are such a goddess, yeah you were cool as
fuck on the 525.
I'm also not trying to makemoney off of this, like very
obvious, like I'm not farmingthis yeah because here's the
thing On my Dr Phil debate, yougave me really good feedback,
really good.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
I was really good.
I was scared, so we're allwe're like in a group chat or
whatever.
I didn't do the peers morgan, Ididn't ask for feedback with
peers because I know that wasgoing to be a shit show and I
knew what the opinions weregoing to be.
But with dr phil, you gave mesome really good feedback and
good tips and I would neverforget and that's why I love
people like you, because it'simportant like this is the the
community of debaters that I'vemanifested and I'm so glad that

(41:07):
all y'all are like a part of itand it's really, really
important.
Yeah, it's cool that we alllike know each other and support
each other.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
You know, like that's fucking cool and that's why I
wanted to have you guys on,because I wanted people to find
out more about the two of you,so it's not just the Jubilee
clip farms.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh, I love that.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Hey, you do this and like nobody knew that, you write
fucking academic papers.
Like you didn't get to showyourself so that's why even this
podcast kind of formed wasthrough some of the jubilee
stuff that we did with alex yeahwe brought them on and I've,
you know, channeled any jubileefolks, especially on the left
side, and I'll even interviewsome of you guys on the right,
like are welcome to the couch,because I feel like jubilee does

(41:45):
not get to really show you thefuck you guys are.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
So who the fuck are you guys?
There was somebody in thecomments of a Jubilee video that
said all these people areinfluencers who are making
$100,000 a year.
I was like we are.
Where did that come from?

Speaker 3 (41:59):
I can't even say the amount of money that I got paid
on the Ben Shapiro thing becausewe signed a thing but that
literally was a McDonald's meal.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
You know what I mean Barely Living in the state of
California, that's how much Imade from fucking yelling at Ben
Shapiro.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, a coconut burger.
Something that you were talkingabout earlier about.
You know people need to hearfrom trans people.
I think that goes back to whatwe were talking about earlier
about you know the systemstheory.
Like it takes cool, cool,level-headed, articulate trans
people.
It takes trans people talkingfrom their emotions.
It takes people you identifywith, so in some cases, white
men talking from an academic,neutral place.

(42:37):
It also takes white men whotalk about it from an emotional
space because they have anemotional resonance with.
So it takes all of the above andI think those of us who have
more privilege and easier accessto being seen, being heard, it
is our job to we.
You know, if you have aprivilege, use it Like it's not
going away, do good with it, butalso use that as a yes and

(42:58):
opportunity to pull in peoplewho are less likely to get that
attention and redirect thatattention to them.
Like you were saying, like Iknow several trans people who I
think are incredible messengers,and I want to be.
I want, of course, I wantattention.
I would love to be making afull-time living at this, but I
also I want to be sure that I'm,like you were saying,
redirecting people to otherfolks who have less privilege,

(43:22):
more marginalization than I do,and also deserve to be.
If they're good at goodmessengers, make good, making a
living being messengers.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
they deserve that and I just hope people step up
because in in the past, um, whenI talked about certain groups
that are not my lived experience, they don't always step up and
I hate to say it, it's beentrans men like I.
I've been layers, so hold on,hold on, hold on before you get
there, because I know you'regonna touch it.
All right fight for my trans men, but here's the thing, though,

(43:50):
like in my experience and you'veknown this about me over- the
years, I've always let the dooropen for trans men somehow some
way, Like I'm going to slide thedoor open for you, but that's
all I can do.
You bust through there.
And in the past trans men havenot stepped up in that way.
And there's a lot of reasonswhich I know you're about to
explain, like the why, becausethere has to be a why behind it
yeah and sometimes it's a littlefrustrating when I do that just

(44:13):
not with trans men, but withjust any group of people.
Like I care so much abouthumanity in general and in my
opinion a lot of theconservatives do not care about
basic humanity because theywould not have the talking
points that they have.
How is it so radical far leftfor me to want justice and
equality for disproportionategroups?

(44:34):
How is that such a far leftissue that they claim it is?
And one thing I noticed when Igo on these debates they never
can insult my intelligence.
Every time you turn aroundthey'll go to misgenerate me,
like Michael knows did in thevideo.
Blair White, stupid ass, willtalk about my wigs, buck Angel
will sit up there and talk aboutme, but guess what?

(44:54):
I'm all on y'all's screens.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Well, people who want to hate are going to find
something.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, but they're projecting their own insecurity
and it's not them being booked.
Yeah, everybody keeps saying,oh, why do they keep platforming
Blossom?
They keep platforming mebecause I have a good rebuttal.
They keep platforming mebecause I speak truth to power,
whether you want to hear it ornot.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
You have the skill and talent that makes it
watchable, and watchable is whatthey're looking for.
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
Can I ask you guys about Blair White?
Sure, I don't.
So what?
How does Right on here?
I know that Blair White is atrans conservative.
How does that work?
Like what?
I know that Blair White is atrans conservative.
How does that work.
What are Blair White's?

Speaker 2 (45:33):
positions about gender affirming.
This is becoming a Blair Whiteepisode.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
You know, she's going to run.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
I have an opinion, hey girl, if you're going to
clip farm this, just say here'sthe thing Blair White, she's
half white and she's halfMexican, but she uses white
supremacy to really grip heraudience doesn't even
acknowledge the mexican part,and this is something that I've
called her out on.
Well, no, she does.
When she gets back to do acorner, yeah, when, when she

(45:57):
feels like she, she can do thatand she's technically a person
of color.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
But the thing about technically- you know she is a
person of color.
But the thing about blair andmy presenting, yeah, opinion.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
I call her white adjacent.
White adjacent, yeah, and thething is, though, I feel that
she and Buck Angel are therejects of the trans community,
and they followed other transconservatives who agree with
them or whatnot, feel likeoutcasts, and so I understand
that, but to me, I just see themtrying to grift to these issues
and say certain trigger pointsor trigger words that will bring

(46:32):
their audience to them tosupport them, and then anybody
who tries to have a differenceof opinion than them they'll
send to attack.
But the reality of it is in aTrump administration.
It's affecting you too, buckAngel.
It's affecting you too, blairWhite.
You too cannot get yourpassport with the gender marker
that you desire.

(46:53):
You, too, could be harassedgoing into the women's or men's
bathroom.
All these trans conservativeswho are just like, oh, amala is
great and Buck Angel is greatand all the things, or whatever,
like they're spewing nothing,and the thing is, intellect
shows what, by you supportingthem, all they do is bully

(47:14):
people.
All they do is project.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
They will sit up there and try to criticize you,
but, truth be told, they're notgetting platform well, and you
know that just because, um, youare, uh, you have confidence and
fortitude and are articulateand are charismatic, and a trans
person Doesn't mean you still.
That doesn't mean you don'tnecessarily live on earth too,
like they could still have agenuinely out of out of like an

(47:40):
inaccurate relationship withreality, and genuinely believe
it's true.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
And I think that's the case with some of you.
Well, hold on hold on.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
I got to do the trans man thing.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry.
Let me make sure to clear thatup, because I'm not.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
The why.
As a trans man they'll be likeShane, you let that slide.
Okay, so Now put you no, I'mnot going to let this slide the
hierarchy in the situation.
That is interesting, and if Istill don't form it right,
because I know Lathe Ashley saidsome things, but hopefully, as
we've evolved, we can hear thisconversation.
So trans men do deal with thesocialization of being female.

(48:20):
Majority of us do have this,what I call being told to sit
down, be quiet.
You know it's the same way thatwomen are treated and were
taught that as a child, right?
So the combination of that with, again, men's mental health and
all of the fun navigation thatis, that's where you see trans

(48:44):
men not truly being able to showup Because, just like, if you
think about, women make 77 centsto the dollar right so you now?
and also, if you know, in thelesbian community it's usually
the femme has the job, thebutchers doesn't have the job.
You know, yes, in the lesbianlisten, see girl, you ain't a
part of the lesbians.
I was once one allegedly umgirl, I did not know that.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
actually I didn't either.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
That's where the allegedly no I mean because
economically and I definitelyexperience this is like being
butch, presenting and trying toget a job and then having
especially pre-transition withthe name that I once had.
When I walked into theinterview they were like what in
the fuck is happening?
So they wouldn't hire me, right?
So there's a lot of masks thatdeal with that situation.

(49:32):
So now you've got, now imaginethat person transitions, right?
So now you think of it in termsof like a financial totem pole.
So now you just keep gettinglower and lower and lower in
terms of financial accesseconomically.
So you have to think again ifwomen are being affected to the
you know, 77 cents to the dollar.
That percentage keeps gettingknocked down as you add on more

(49:54):
intersectionalities and that'swhy, when you see black trans
men specifically, with norepresentation, it's also the
economic impact behind it,because how are they going to be
able to fund, to get a camera,to get on fucking?
You know what I mean?
They're dealing with justsurviving, so they can't even
have time to find a voice whenthey're just trying to keep a

(50:15):
roof over their head.
So those are the layers ofprivilege that happen.
So even in my space as a transperson, yes, but I also have the
privilege, like technically Ibrought you on, so you're, I'm
the most.
In case you didn't know, you'rewhite but at the same time
here's another reverse.
I was born and raised inscientology and escaped as a
child at 16, way underprivilegedthan all of you, okay so like

(50:37):
and I'm trans.
So, like the late, like you said, how that thing fluctuates is
like, wait what?
Like we're?
You know, and I have to beaware of that, most folks are
not aware of that and willing tobe aware of that, but that's
why trans men like, if you lookat women's rights and go, oh,
that's a shit show.
Unfortunately, trans men aremen, yes, but the way the

(50:59):
society still treats us gives usaccess economically, etc.
Etc.
We're treated like bitch butch,bitch butch women that are no
sexual value to the male gaze,so there's no need for
investment.
And only recently, gay men haveturned on trans men and
fetishized us, and you know whatI mean.
Like, but that's through porn,et cetera, et cetera.

(51:21):
But like, even in those spaces,there's such a power imbalance
that's still going on.
Because name a trans man, thatwas a big, that was a long one.
Name a trans man that you knowthat has over a million dollars.
I here's the crazy thing.
I'm not like rich, okay, let'sbe real.
But I'm okay, I'm all right.

(51:41):
I got some bills, you know whatI mean.
I have some bills on auto pay.
Okay, like in this economy,damn, but um, but you have to
realize you're buying eggs.
I oh, I got I have a costcobusiness executive membership
okayyes, cash back, um, but again,

(52:01):
I'm in terms of my privilege, ifwe're going to look at society
as a whole, not me as a transperson, just me as a white guy,
not really up there, but me as atrans person, I'm up there.
But if I'm still struggling,you know, still and like, oh
shit, maybe I can't make rentthis month Cause I got to do
this gig or that gig, where thefuck are my brothers at, you

(52:23):
know?
And I've barely, at 35, beenable to cultivate enough money
to be able to get this, and ittook years and years.
And here's the thing.
I'm not going to sit here andbe like I'm a self-made man,
cause that's so bullshit.
Nobody is self there's literallya village of people that helped
me and that that literally justinvested and was like here, I
love you and here's some money,here's this, here, even solomon

(52:53):
right now, how he's amazinglydoing the things that he does
for us, solomon here, letting usyou know use he runs space and
running the shit the way that hedoes.
It's like it's that ebb andflow and understanding that
level and like how you can showup in those spaces.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
But that's why trans men unfortunately don't have
much girl, because, like womenone thing I want to point out is
the way that we're talkingabout privilege in this
conversation is not this sort oflike?
We're not doing this sort oflike accusatory thing, right?
because like like, nope,nobody's not oppression, no,
nobody's a winner in theoppression olympics, right we're

(53:20):
doing we're doing this I meanscientology, I don't know I
might have won, but but likewe're doing, we're doing this in
terms of empathy, and that isone thing that I find
interesting when we're talkingabout privilege is, a lot of
times I think people find itvery threatening to
recontextualize themselves asprivileged, because I think that
people kind of have a sense ofself-worth calibrated to what

(53:43):
they think that they've gonethrough yes and if you tell me
like, well, maybe it's beeneasier for me than I thought
that might diminish myaccomplishments and diminish my
you know my sense of of self andbut I really appreciate here
and where I think this is a verygreat way to approach this is
like I'm learning.
Yeah, I'm learning, like I'mlearning about you and what you

(54:03):
went through right, yeah, it'slike I'm not.
I'm confident enough in myselfand I'm self-assured enough to
where it's not threatening to meto learn more about what trans
men experience, even if learninghow trans men are, you know, go
through things, is sort ofadding more clarity to my sense

(54:25):
of how well I've really haven'thad to deal with any of that.
Right like my, my sense of um,my sense of self is still intact
and I think this is the, thisis the good, this is the way to
approach this.
Thank you, because that'sliterally what.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
I've tried to do with this podcast and most people
have not seen the vision, butI'm hoping that more people
understand why I'm creatingthese episodes.
Because, yes, they'resensational and yes, we talk
shit and we do kikis and allthat stuff, but that's also to
get the views and because it'sabout the educational.
Like every episode, if youwatch it in full, you learn
something and hopefully walkaway from it.
Even, like I said, that driptheory I'm like, even if I don't

(55:00):
fully change you today, if Ioffer you a few drips of
knowledge, maybe it can changeyour view on especially trans
people.
Like we are not a monolith, wehave so many different people
and, like you said, I reallyhoped that you would get the try
out.
The city of west hollywood,actually um, I don't know, but

(55:21):
I'm just saying they have lotsof grants, like I literally um,
like I've been a commissionerand blossom yeah are you in the
city?
Yeah, like we actually don'tlive in West Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, if it's a project
for trans people like there.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
We'll talk off camera , but like yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Blossom and I are actually politicians too.
Like I actually advised themayor for Los, she served as a
board member for tab, which I'mno longer on, by the way, oh my
gosh girl.
We're going to talk about thatin the next episode.
But like that's the other thingtoo is like blossom and I, we
may talk our shit, but we'realso out doing the work.

(55:58):
So like we have to also findpeople that are legitimately
like.
It's not just, hey, I can saythis and pay me a bunch of money
because I'm articulate.
It's like what are you doingwith that energy?
Like, how are you channeling?
And I love that you actuallywant to send some of your
because I was like Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
When I started following you on Instagram, I
was like damn, ryan, okay peoplemisunderstand how, how, like
that is not a financial like,like no, I know, but I was like,
oh shit, he's gotta follow meno, you know, unfortunately I
have.
I have good metrics.
That never changes.
I don't know what I'm doing,but I'm, it's called being
unproblematic.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
I have the same thing .
So if you're, like, not racist,I'm making this a rumor, even
if it's not true, your skindoesn't crack, so like, even if
it's not true, I'm just going tostart telling white people stop
being racist and you won't agebad.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Well, you know, I had to turn to monetizing my social
media, my online presence,because the zone got flooded in
politics with people who have myexperience and skill set, like
I got really far really fast inpolitics because I didn't need
to get paid doing it.
And then I got to a point whereit made sense for me to get

(56:59):
paid doing it, like I was anadvisor to the Biden campaign in
2020.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Yeah, I know, I was reading about you.
I was like holy fucking shit.
This is why I love being aroundRonnie.
No, that's why I wanted tobring you on.
Like, tell me I love beingaround Ronnie.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
But here's the thing, though Like it changes when you
want to get paid, how peoplechoose.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Oh, I know.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
But when Kamala lost and when we lost Congress, and
so there were 4,000 politicalappointees that were flooding
the zone anyway.
And then all these staffers,like they're bajillion, so like
my only real and my, mycorporate resume is covered with
dei stuff.
So like I am not hireable inthis environment, so like I need
to go to.
You know social media, but youcan rename it to something else.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Just so you know what I used to do resumes.
You can rename it to somethingelse.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
We can oh yeah, I know, but um, I also.
I also used to be a careercoach and I also know it sucks
oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
No, I mean, you're kind of screwed with some of
those keywords.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Yeah, yeah, I might want to hear about your keywords
, but one thing I will say aboutthe privilege that I have is
that, like something that mostpeople don't realize is that
white men and white women, butin particular white men,
commiserate with each otherabout the world around them in a
way that nobody else sees,because it's only when the white
men are in the room and I getto hear those conversations

(58:06):
because I pass through.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Oh, you do too.
No, no, no are in the room andI get to hear those
conversations because I pass ittoo well, I've been in a secret
club.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
I know what you're talking about you and I I got a
box.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
I know what you're saying you and I are
heteronormative passive.
Oh yeah, and so, like we hearthings, that nobody else hears.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
Actually, you wouldn't believe.
I've noticed that whensomeone's homophobic, they don't
realize I'm gay.
Yes, like I'm wearing this,this is this is my I got.
I was in te, texas.
What the fuck do you think?
They say to me yeah, yeah, Iwas in Texas, in Louisiana,
earlier.
That's where I got this shirt,because my friend was like oh
yeah, like my dad would like it.
It says ATM, which I think ofas ATM machine.
Wait, you didn't know that thatwas Texas.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Can I say this though yeah.
In your episode with 30 and Inoticed this right away when you
talked about your husband.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
A few folks on your side of the aisle were kind of
looking like and in my head Iwas like, oh shit, there's a
layer of homophobia there's alayer of transphobia there too
well yeah, that's the thingbecause it's like the reason,
like first I I agree when I'vehad the experience that you guys
have had, where when someoneassumes that you are also like
the straight white guy, they'rejust just like oh, you're one of
us, I can take my mask off andthey just say the most insane

(59:11):
stuff to you and yeah, like I.
But no, yeah, definitely.
I mean I think that I rememberone time JD Vance said that he
thought that Trump got thenormal gay guy.
Yeah, no.
And that's a very tellingstatement, a very telling phrase
, because yeah they again what I, what I think I've been
listening to this, uh, audiobookby an author named jason
stanley called how fascism works, and um, it's really, it's like

(59:33):
, it's like five or six hours,it's really good listen, um and
um, he talks about hierarchies alot and how conservatives
really like hierarchies and justlike categorizing people, like
like it's like a tier list forpeople, right, and it also the
conservative political movementlikes that.
Because how do you justifyinequality if not categorizing

(59:53):
people as intrinsically more,intrinsically less,
intrinsically more worthy,intrinsically less worthy?
So they start out with thingslike men can only be this, women
can only be this, and then youcan expand it out to race, you
can expand it out to income, youcan expand it out to all these
things and out to income, um,you can expand it out to all
these things, and so you cankind of create this
justification.
And so I think that there are alot of people who are for, for

(01:00:17):
whatever reason and I'm notsaying that like the average,
like conservative guy walkingaround is thinking about like
how do I like justifybillionaires?
but like they do have this kindof alignment towards these
hierarchies and so then when,when they see like somebody who
is ryan, you're trying to get mysecurity deposit yeah, so so
when they I think, the more.

(01:00:38):
The more that you challenge theway they want to put people
into buckets, the less they likeyou and so that is why.
I think you will hear, like whenI'm like the reason why there's
that homophobia, the reason whythere's that homophobia in that
video in the conservativeversus progressive Jubilee
middle ground that me and Ryanwere in, and and Shane was yeah,

(01:01:03):
yeah and um, yeah, I was there.
Yeah, Shane was, you were onset for some reason.
Why was that?
And, yeah, but like.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Because I was a tokenized trans person.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
You were holding the boom light Because being gay is
me messing with the boundariesof the bucket that they put men
in and now and that and they andthat's they're traditional.
They say we want to be in thisbucket and we don't like you
being out of the bucket.
And now think about like ablack, trans woman, think about

(01:01:33):
all of the ways that you justcompletely color outside of
their lines.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yes, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
And so that is where I think that you get that
reaction and you'll see it withthe homophobia.
They're just kind of like youknow I was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I was as someone who was not in the episode and just
looking as a viewer.
I was kind of shocked by that.
But in my head I had toremember even in our michael
noves episode there were gayfolks, there were straight folks
.
Although a lot of us were inalignment with each other, there
are still these layers of justlike homophobia, transphobia,
that sometimes the viewer canjust forget, especially when

(01:02:10):
it's just liberal versusconservative in those
conversations.
And I was just really surprisedto see that because I saw a lot
of the progressive men makinglike these faces.

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
When you said that and that's what shocked me.
What's interesting is that allof the progressive men were very
nice to to me off camera, andexcept there's one guy that
hated.
I won't say his name, butthere's one guy that hated me
and brian and and I think I'veheard y'all talk about yeah,

(01:02:40):
yeah, but like otherwise who'sthe cheese man, okay, so wait,
wait.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
You don't have to say his name, but I won't say his
name, okay where did he sit?

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
he was in front of me and the guy next to me, evan,
and so basically here's whathappened.
Wait, was he baseball cap?
He was like a bigger guy he haddrove in from Vegas.
Do you guys want to hear this?
This is a completely off topic,just like funny gossip.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Go ahead, so you have to be messy a little bit, okay,
so we need that little clip, soI have.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
I have pieced this together over since this
happened.
I've thought about actually hada realization about this the
other day, so so basically,we're on set for this video,
surrounded xl, you know, like 25, like like wokies versus trad
men, right and like, or howeverthey titled, and like we're
there for like 10 or 11 hours.

(01:03:29):
That was a long time, and yeah,and so we're in the first like
half of it we're all in chairs,and then there's two people in
like a little circle talking,and then for the most part we're
all in the chairs while peopleare talking, and me and this guy
next to me started doing thislike back of the classroom yeah,

(01:03:50):
I thought it was funny, youknow you know, like, like, like
you remember, like in math classin high school, there's just
two kids in the back who just donot care yeah, so
yeah so I was, so I was doingthat with this guy next to me
and then they kept going, yeah.
And then there's this person infront who turned in front of me
and the guy next to me who justturned.
I was like hey guys, like wouldyou mind?
I really can't focus on whatthey're saying.

(01:04:11):
And here's the thing I havevery bad adhd.
I've been like studied.
By the way, I was in an adhdstudy where they tested like a
treatment on me and they, theydid I, I got tested, baby, I'm,
I'm, I have super that is so youto have that yeah, I have
verified adhd.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
You know rfk is coming for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but soso like I, I cannot.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
I cannot tune anything out, right.
So I have been like at aconcert and someone's chattering
behind me if you're chattering30 feet away from me, it might
as well be literally into my earand so I have experienced just
stress like just like, literallylike the stress hormone of like
I'm trying to listen to likesomeone sing and you're talking.
So I'm like, oh my god, I'mbeing the guy who does the thing

(01:04:56):
that makes my blood boil, andso I felt really genuinely bad.
I was like, oh my god, I'm sosorry, but also I'm very
forgetful, and so I do my bestdoing it, so I do yeah so I stop
, yeah, yeah, so I stopped.
So I stopped for, like, maybe,like I I managed to stop, it was
like 10 minutes and then all ofa sudden, you guys started yeah
, yeah so I, I, yeah, so I Istopped talking for like 10

(01:05:17):
minutes and I just I completelyforgot, and then the person in
the center would be like I don'tthink women have brains, and
just be like it was yeah yeah,and then, and then, and then,
and then, and so I'd start to doit again.
And then the guy would kind ofturn around again like, hey, I
was like, oh, my god, I'm sosorry.
Yes, my bad.
And then I started like writingin my notebook to like pass
notes, yeah, because I wastrying.

(01:05:38):
And then people would someoneto see.
They'd be like, oh, I agree.
And then the guy would be likeand so I kept.
I, this poor guy sitting infront of us, just wanted to pay
attention and I wouldn't shut upLike I'm the villain in this
right.
But here's the thing, here'swhere I think I stopped being
the villain.
We had a break in between partone and two and I went up to him
I said, hey, I'm so sorry, Ifeel like such a jerk.

(01:06:02):
I explained you know, I am theguy who has my blood boil when
people are talking.
I don't know why I kept doingthat.
I feel horrible that I'vemessed up with your experience
and you know, hey, I am.
You know, I I want to make sureyou have a good time here.
Um, during the second part, Iwant to help get you the

(01:06:22):
microphone because you haven'ttalked yet and and we had this
conversation, I asked him wherehe's from, like is this your
first video?
And I thought we patched it up.
And then, in the second part,in part two there was like three
or four times, including, bythe way, one time that made it
to the final shoot there's ashot where you can see me.
You can very clearly lip readme where I'm like you want to go

(01:06:45):
do you?
want the mic.
You see, there's video evidenceand I'm trying to get in the
thing and then it's all fine,right, and then the video comes
out like a month later and heleaves us a long comment on the
video, like I was in the video.
It was the worst thing ever,everyone on my side was horrible
, or said half of the peoplehorrible.
It's like in particular, ryanand greg were insufferable.

(01:07:08):
And then he made like a video.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
I love that.
That's why we cast you, justbecause of that one comment and
then he made this entire episodeand then he made a video on his
channel.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
Like my experience was so horrible let's watch it
now, yeah, yeah, yeah and thenthen part two comes out and he
writes the same comment, but hedeleted greg from part two so
maybe I don't, I didn't pay moreattention.
Yeah, but I didn't.
I was just like, I was likedude, like, like, like I I admit
again I was the villain, I wastaught, but like I really I
really honestly and likeprofusely apologized and like I

(01:07:42):
thought I made it up to you.
But yeah, and then what Irealized the other day and this
is this is where I'm getting alittle messy is he?
He's a deal he's on grinder.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
He's only 15 feet away at the.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
He said something.
He said something in like thereplies to his comment, like
like I'm not like a progressiveanymore because of this or
whatever.
Like he said, explain to thatextent.
And I realized why did he wantto listen so bad?
Why did he have such a desireto listen to people hash out
like should women be able todrive?
I think he was an undecidedvoter.

(01:08:14):
Yeah, I think he was like.
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Like that one dude that was supporting fucking Elon
, that was on our side.
I was like bro, what the fuck?

Speaker 4 (01:08:25):
This guy shows up to this thing.
He, he, he's not sure Like oneperson's, like I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
To be fair, Jubilee does that intentionally Like?
Let's be real, it's.
There is a level of castingthat I feel like is on, because
I don't know how many times I'mnow on set and I turned to
somebody and like, oh, this ismy first time debating.
I've never done this before.
I don't even know what I'mdoing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
I don't even know what I'm doing, I don't even
know what the subject is, andI'm like so we're shooting fish
in a barrel, like what the fuck?

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
I have comments, but I want to talk about this guy.
Yeah, and my, my, my theory ofjubilee.
I've people I heard have calledyou.
People have called jubilee likeit's like a psyop.
I I found videos.
I don't want to like sendpeople to go like dig into the
guy and like docs him.
It's like I'm not going to likego through the detail but I,
just for my personal wanting tocheck, I kind of dug into the
ceo a bit and I found some ofhis like old, like social media

(01:09:15):
stuff, because now, because he'sthe ceo, he's kind of cagey,
but like well, like you know,like I, like we're here to
represent both sides.
I found old stuff from him andhe is, in my opinion, very
clearly like one, like veryliberal and two, you can find
stuff from him like 10 or 12years ago where he's saying the
exact same thing joe rogan wasvery liberal at one point, and

(01:09:37):
here's what I'll tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
When I looked up the fact checking company that does
the little, fact checks, that'sonly yes, that is owned by a
conservative and funded by aconservative and there's a lot
of stuff that also comes fromPragerU.
Most of the people on the redside are from PragerU that have
already had a lot of experience.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
A lot of DIY funding people.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Yeah.
So there's a layer to it thatlike, because I know this,
because I produce this, so Iknow what it takes to get
somebody to show up and create avibe right.
So I'm looking at it in termsof a producer and I'm going no,
no, no, no, no, I smellsomething.
Yeah that's what but I stillparticipate because of like what
you said, and what you said isthat reach to Jesus sorry
Solomon to the broader audiences, because now I've reached a

(01:10:20):
different set of folks thatagain the liberal side has known
about my existence.
I've been doing the work for along time but no one gave me a
shot.
Unfortunately, conservativeside did, and now people are
going oh shit, he has skills.
But that also comes back to whytrans men always get a race,
because I'm still treated as awoman who doesn't know shit and
with the beard they're like sitdown, shut the fuck up well, ben

(01:10:43):
shapiro, ben shapiro.

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):
Hey bro, well bro and out bro.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
And then to that whole.
The best part about that is A.
I know I'm like in hisnightmares Forever because he
can't look at another Cis manand be like does he have a
vagina?
He cannot look, I guarantee you.
He looks at like the mostburliest man and be like is
there a vagina?

Speaker 4 (01:11:02):
there he was like a kid being yelled at by his dad.
That was the best clip, so I'mYou're like physically bigger
than him too.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
Okay, you remember, dan, from fucking rosanne no, uh
, yeah, john goodman.
Oh yeah, I want you to know.
I embodied him with a sweaterand everything that's great
that's why I was giving him likethe 90s.
Yeah, sit at the table like son.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
You're doing wrong like and he, just right before I
get too far, because ryan wasalso like, yeah, I like, yeah, I
think that I think I definitelyand I'm sure Jubilee could
guess this right.
They've heard it enough frompeople from our side, like I
don't agree with how Jubileedoes a lot of things.
Yeah, the only thing is I don'tthink it's like malicious, but
I get why people you know, Imean, but you're going to say

(01:11:46):
about the guy on our side.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Oh well, yeah, cause I want to talk about.
I want to comment on what youguys are talking about now, but
I also want to talk about thatguy.
Like I think you know peoplewho are not as naturally
inclined to have the fortitudeto speak up to, you know, lead
sometimes they get yeah, I'm amore introverted person, that's
me and.
But others blame other, blamethe people in the front for that

(01:12:09):
, blame the leaders for that.
Like they hold, they don't holdthemselves responsible for
developing the skill of takingthe mic.
They hold the people who havethe mic responsible for not
giving it to them, and so that'swhy I felt like he was unfair
to us in that way.
But also, you know, there was aguy on the conservative side
that was really I felt badbecause he was like you must be
Ryan, cause he'd seen me inother videos and I didn't have
time to stop and talk to him andI felt really bad about that.

(01:12:29):
I could not tell you I feelreally bad about this.
But the guy who was hating onus in the comments I don't
remember what he looks like, butI do remember what the guy who
I felt bad Cause I didn't stopto talk to him for very long.
It looks like for being who I am, but you know, my, my, my, the

(01:12:50):
entire purpose I loved how youran it like oh and the purpose
of that was to make sureeverybody who wanted to speak
got to speak, and it's not as ifhe he did not put himself
forward and get in the line ofpeople who wanted to.
I love the way.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
It's.
So much so that, like I, as atrans person, was just listening
to you guys and I sat downbecause I felt like our side
first of all felt like abaseball team.
It was like, all right, guys,go, let's break.
Yeah, and I love that you tookthat role and we didn't have a
toxic thing like over there.
They were fighting and circlejerking.

Speaker 4 (01:13:16):
You told us to stop doing I loved it well and
everything.
He, ryan, was like guys likestop snickering.
He told us like stop laughingat that.
That was one of the things thatI was like what like Ryan was
doing that?

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
no, I appreciated that you stood up and led that
moment I felt like to be honest,as a trans guy I felt very
accepted, very safe and even Iwas listening to what you guys
said and I was like I was onlygonna jump in because I was like
if something wrong was said.
But even Oliver the young kid,the way oh yeah, he's got to
slow down on the caffeine alittle bit.
Yeah, slow it down a little bit.
But he had so many valid pointsand I think coming from a young

(01:13:49):
kid was kind of cool to seeoliver's great I.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
I did not know who oliver was and I saw him talking
up there, but I kind of by it.
So they gave us free celsiusenergy drinks and sometimes
people hit the celsius I did nothave one, yeah yeah, yeah, um,
but no, yeah.
So, oliver, like I, I'm not likeI in in the sense of describing
things I have done.
You could say technically I ama debater and that I have

(01:14:12):
debated.
I would not describe myself asthat.
The same way I don't describemyself as like a chef, because I
made dinner last night like,but all of her is like, all of
her is like not to like a, likea debater.
He's this young kid who was inour episode and like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Is he the one who says he does six hours of
debating a day with differentpeople on his channel?
I think that's somebody else.

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
But but so yeah, and like he, he just went and went
and went and like I kind ofengineered all of her, I was
like, oh, oliver knows what he'sdoing.
So the second time he went Iwas like same, we were all
supporting like yeah, okay, Ithink he's actually like it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
The other side, I felt like they were like I'm
gonna be the guy I'm gonna bethe guy.
We were all kind of likelooking at each other and going,
okay, who's right?

Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
right, it's actually gonna fucking bat this right and
yeah and the thing to yourpoint, like, right, like, like,
I believe in a very specifictype of personal responsibility
which is like because there's,there's the people who say, and
I, there's people who say like,kind of, you know, woe is me,
like the world has just kind ofruined my life, there's nothing
I can do.
Then there's the people who arelike everything's your fault,

(01:15:10):
and I don't think it's either.
Here's what I think.
I think we can say Things arevery unfair and we should
acknowledge that and we shouldtry to make it better and we
should believe in our ability toovercome unfair things.
And 50 people aren't going toget to talk and some people

(01:15:45):
aren't going to, like, try tohelp, like, yeah, you could.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
You could acknowledge , ok, that there there are
things to be upset about, right,but also you need to believe in
your ability to do grab thefucking mic like and I think, I
think honestly, you guys astrans I waited for my moment to
grab the mic too like and I wasvery specific why I grabbed the
mic because my thing was Iwanted to show the hypocrisy of

(01:16:09):
what the fuck the right side wassaying and be like um sounding
very also you're, you're, youguys.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
You guys are both trans.
You know what I'm talking aboutallegedly you, allegedly I'm an
ally actually I support thecommunity you, you guys have
have, and I'm saying guys in thegender neutral sense- damn it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Cancel him y'all.
I'm not a friend.
Yeah, yeah, you guys are like Iam.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
Send me a venmo the world has given you guys such an
unfair hand, and youacknowledge that and you push to
make it better and you believein your ability to do this thing
that is so unfairly difficult,which is to live a life that is

(01:16:55):
not worth living, and and soit's, that's just a thing that
you have to.
You have to be able to kind ofwalk and chew gum, you know what
?

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
I mean, and it's like I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:17:03):
And so, yeah, I think that I think that there is a
guy I work right.
My first I dropped out ofcollege right after I my first
time in college.
I dropped out almostimmediately and I went back
ballgreens and I had this friendwho was also, like you know,
not really doing anything, andevery time there would be
somebody was he a white man?
No, I'm just kidding.

(01:17:23):
Yeah, sorry, every every time.
Every time there was somebodywho was better than him at
something, he would find a wayto describe them white men
negatively maybe like, like,like there is a girl, there is
this girl at her high school whowas very social.
See, she is so fake.
There was somebody who went toStanford.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Oh, he's an overachiever.

Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
It's like, instead of telling yourself stories about
other people, believe in yourability to learn from them.
You guys mentioned Oliver, thisdebater, who's really good.
I went up and I was like how doyou do that?
How do you think so quickly?
I'm amazed by that and I admirethat, and I can't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
How do you do that?
And I like that.
We all recognize that he wasbatting the way that he was.
We we didn't go like my dick'sgotta be on the table because I
need attention.
We were like no, we want toactually genuinely strategically
win this, so let's put the bestbatter up yeah, well, I don't
want to even think of thatpicture.
By the way, you have to wrapsoon and I do want to give you
your moment for your thing ryan,you get to close this out.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Here's all the attention.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
Well, you have the biggest following.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
So here you go, ryan well, there are two quick things
I'll say.
The first is we are all dealt.
The cards were dealt and we canboth um acknowledge that the
suffering sucks and work on thatand, you know, cope with our
feelings about it and all thatstuff, and also take
responsibility, for it's my jobto work with what I got.
And that guy that was hating onus only did one of those things

(01:18:49):
and I hate that for him.
I wish he would see it as agrowth opportunity.
But the other thing I'll say isI hosted a couple of episodes
of Jubilee shows that are comingup and congratulations, thank
you.
And something I've learned, oh,yay.
Something I've learned frompolitics that I also observed in
Jubilee is that 95% of the timewhen somebody thinks there's

(01:19:13):
something malicious going on,there isn't.
It's just that the system isn'tgreat.
It's you know, most people don'thave malicious intent.
It's just that they're flawedbeings trying to make things
work in a flawed system.
And I think and what I do knowspecifically about Jubilee is
that they have a very hard time,and I think this goes back to
what we were talking aboutearlier.

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
They have a harder time finding like qualified
liberals to come on thanconservatives, and that comes
right back to on the liberalside, we don't, because no one's
funding them, no one'smentoring, no one's creating
that farm to to have that notonly that there are people who
who like um, no one I knowpersonally, no one I've met from

(01:19:54):
, but like I saw this, this,this woman I don't know her name
, she's like bizarrely goodlooking to where it's like she's
like an ai like.
I don't know her name, she'slike bizarrely good looking to
where it's like she's like an ai, like I don't know that she's a
real person.
I've ever has anyone seen herin person black lady.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Yeah, dasha carter yeah, yeah, yeah, with the blue
eyes, yeah, she is beautiful sheis so pretty, it scares me she
criticized.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
I didn't think she was real for the first.
Yeah, yeah, but I saw this.

Speaker 4 (01:20:18):
I saw this video because I don't really watch
tiktoks, but I I post on tiktoknow on greg from video one, and
so when I open we're also goingto be going live soon.
Yeah, yeah, I opened the appand it plays one for me and it
played one of her and she waslike telling people to stop
going on to jubilee and here'smy thing where it's like the
videos are being made.
We're in.
We are in los angeles county.

(01:20:39):
I'm gonna talk to the cameraand do what you do.
We're in los angeles county.
There are over 10 millionpeople here.
A lot of people have moved hereto be in the entertainment
business and there's a youtubechannel with 10 million
subscribers that is trying toget people on to be on camera,
and I have been.
I was in the mr beast beastgames and that's how I found out
about jubilee, because someonethere was like you should go on

(01:21:00):
jubilee, and no hate to anyonefrom our beast games family.
There are people there wholiterally weren't on camera,
literally were not on camera,not even in the background.
You can't even where's waddlethem.
They're not there.
And almost a year later,they're still trying, like every
day, to convert that into acareer in traditional or new
media.
And so if you, that is howdesperate people are, because

(01:21:23):
it's so hard I'm not evenlooking down on them.
It's so hard to break through.
It's so hard to break throughand so they can meet.
Yeah, they are.
Jubilee is not going to run outof people to go on Jubilee
videos.
And so if everybody who iseither thoughtful enough and or
tuned in to the discourse enoughto realize, hey, you know, like

(01:21:47):
there are some things aboutthese videos that you know might
not be great from ourperspective and again, jubilee
is very aware of thatperspective the people who are
going to be left to go on theJubilee videos are going to be
people who don't know whatthey're doing and like, for
example, that's what I worryabout.
Here is why I went on Jubilee.
Ultimately, I applied again.

(01:22:08):
I applied because someone toldme it was be fun.
They asked me to do the Knowlesone and they sent me a
surrounded, which was I believeit was the Ben Shapiro
surrounded, and I watched thefirst two minutes of it and I
had to turn it off because therewas this guy and I'm sure he's
a wonderful guy, but he was theflower hat guy.
Oh yeah, flower hat guy.
I have talked about flower hatguy in our and here's what

(01:22:32):
flower hat guy does.
He says I'd like to start witha land acknowledgement.
My friend made my hat.
And then he just sits there forthree minutes and just lets the
other guy talk and I'm like, ohmy god, I don't know how to do
this, but I know that I know howto do this better than that guy
knows well and that just.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
I think that's why I got so angry on set, because
there are people that are likeben hi, I'm a fan, I'm like.
What the fuck are you saying?

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
I know you heard that too.
I was like what the what thefuck?
That's why I flipped the chairaround.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
In terms of reality, we can talk about in terms of
our ideology and our echochamber and our circular firing
squad and our purity test.
But in terms of reality, if youthink you would be better at
this than like the median personand you go on to the Jubilee
video and you advocate forthings that are good and against
things that are bad, you'reimproving the outcome, as

(01:23:23):
opposed to the alternatesituation where everybody who is
in any way better than average,even a little bit, boycotts it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
Well, I think something we now know for sure
is that trying to disappearsomething you disapprove of
doesn't work.
Yeah.
Like we try, we talk about, uh,deplatforming problematic people
, but they represent voices thatalready exist and I think we
have to confront them wherethose people can see yes, and I
think, and the same is true for,like, going on the show, like a
format that's um, or a produceror a host that's problematic,

(01:23:50):
those shows will continue to bemade and it and no, there is
absolutely no um positive impacton society by saying that
person's problematic, I'm notgoing to be on there.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
yeah, that doesn't change anything.
You don't have to.
The last thing I'll say on thisWe've got to wind it down.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
I've got the final thoughts today.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
When I say and people I've talked to.

Speaker 3 (01:24:10):
We can definitely bring you guys back, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:24:16):
If we want to go on, you don't have to be at the
grocery store and someone has aMAGA hat and like.
Engage them in compassionatedialogue, right.
A way that you can bepolitically effective is just
get 40 people who are on thefence and didn't vote to vote.
That will take the same amountof effort as converting one dyed
in the wool bigot yeah Right,in the wool bigot, yeah, right.

(01:24:40):
So it's not like in yourpersonal life, like we have to
all just like, be tolerant of,and like and interact with and
and and you know, like, likesuffer a bunch of fools, right,
but in if there is a thing beingmade that, like, hundreds of
thousands of conservatives aregonna watch yeah, you know what
I mean and that's where it'slike.
It's like I'm, I'm not.
I don't think you, I don'tthink any of us are saying that
like in your personal life.

(01:25:01):
You need to just like put upwith bigotry as a political
strategy in a media space.
It's a specific and differentthing.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Well, and I think you know when you think about and
that's my last thing, but Ithink about a military fighting
a war.
There are so many differentspecialists.
You know people, snipers, youknow like and so like there will
be a mercenary.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
You need a sniper, you need somebody that does the
radio, you need somebody thatdoes the.
We got to think about ourmovement like that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
And that and that gets all the way granular down
to um, a trans woman who doesfeel comfortable with a white
man talking about their issuesand a trans woman who doesn't.
It gets all these littlecomponent parts matter, and if
you're not comfortable with youknow, tolerating that.
But another chance one is thatthose are two different
specialists that each have theiropportunity to make difference

(01:25:45):
in their way.
We don't all have to be expertsat everything.
The other thing we need to dois rotate each other out, like
we need to be able to tap outand give everybody their R and R
.
Like, if we all do our part andalso give each other and
ourselves grace to actually doit in a sustainable long form
way and support each other too.

Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
Yes, not make this a pissing contest where.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
I have to be on top, yes, I love to take breaks.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
You like to take breaks?
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
But we also want to support each other, it's good.
Now Blossom.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
I want to give you this moment because I know that.
There you know, before we getinto this, one point make sure
to follow these two gentlemen ontheir social media.
The link is going to be below.
Make sure to follow all theirgood stuff where they're going,
where they're heading.
Ryan's going to have some moreJubilee episodes and also Greg
and I we're going to be doingsome TikTok lives.
We're going to be talking aboutit and working together.
We're going to be doing somenew debate style with some

(01:26:37):
actually empathy.
No, no, but it's going to betwo white dudes that have
empathy and actually have livedexperience.
You know, and we're a littleolder, so we might have a little
bit different perspective ofhow we want to actually have a
conversation on TikTok.

Speaker 4 (01:26:49):
Also, I was about to make fun of the moment Gay
Magazine, and then you remindedme that my TikTok handle is Greg
from Video One.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
I was like, wow, gay magazine, so creative.
Oh, so I got the final thoughtfor today, y'all.
So I want to talk to my blackqueer community.
Okay, now I feel that, assomeone who has a platform, it's
important for me to use any andevery platform to send a
powerful message.
Today I want to publicly callin gay Magazine.
So Gay Magazine is apublication that focuses more on

(01:27:23):
Black queer men, but they'reexpansive.
They include the Black queercommunity.
So Black trans women issues,black lesbian issues, like they,
are a beautiful, powerful huband I genuinely love Gay
Magazine.
But recently they posted a postabout a list of DL men that have
been released in Houston.

(01:27:44):
So apparently this black transwoman gave out this DL list of
men that she's been talking to.
Now, me personally, when itcomes to my personal opinion
about it, I don't agree with it.
When trans women do that, forme, I feel like, if you're doing
it, are you thinking about yoursafety?
Are you thinking aboutretaliation from these men that

(01:28:09):
you are releasing?
I understand that some blacktrans women don't want to hold
the secrets of gay men, don'twant to hold the secrets of DL
men, don't want to hold thesecrets of DL men, and I
completely understand that andpeople move to their own beat
and their own drum and I don'tjudge it Me personally.
I just worry about safety andretaliation.
But Gay Magazine made a postabout it and there's nothing

(01:28:33):
wrong with reporting it Likethey're really good at that.
But in the slides and I don'tknow if that post is still up or
whatnot they featured two blackgay men and they were using
microaggressions of transphobiato make their talking points.
One black guy was talking abouthow the trans community can be
very problematic and you knowall of these things or whatnot.

(01:28:55):
And for me with Gay Magazine, Iwas really shocked that they
even platform that.
They're calling it reporting,but for me it's almost like
you're promoting it and twothings can exist at the same
time.
I just really want to call inpublicly Gay Magazine and just
let them know be a little bitmore careful with the

(01:29:16):
transphobia that you areunconsciously posting.
I think that there's a lot ofunconscious bias there that we
can all work through together.
This is not a read on GayMagazine.
Gay Magazine is wonderfulbecause they platform black
trans voices and although theywere originally for black gay
men, black queer men, they havekindly expanded to other issues,

(01:29:38):
and Gay magazine has actuallyposted some of the jubilee
debates.
They've never posted mine andI'm okay with that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:44):
I'm okay with that because so, uh, gay magazine, uh
, you're gonna do a cover onblossom yeah we got, we're gonna
that's how we fix this.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
Okay, no, no, that's how we fix this no put into the
ether.

Speaker 3 (01:29:54):
No, I'm your best friend.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
No, I'm gonna give you an opportunity, so gay
magazine.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
Now what you should do is do an interview with
blossom, because of the stuffthat she's done, and then also
have a conversation about thisand maybe even make her I don't
know some sort of y'all are sosweet listen, I'm always trying
to get everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
I'm gonna tell you why.
I'm okay if they don't do it,because I'm not.
In some spaces I may be alittle too radical and that's
fine.
Like I, I'm okay with that.
But I just really wanted tocall y'all in today and just say
just really be careful of whatyou post.
I feel like y'all could have putblack gay men who had an
opinion that was not transphobic, underlying transphobic, and I

(01:30:29):
think it's important to catchthe microaggressions.
We, as a black people,understand microaggressions very
well, but there is a lot oftransphobia in the Black queer
community that we have toaddress.
Our Black trans sisters, likeTS Madison and Angelica Ross and
Hope Giselle and all of theseother Black trans activists and
powerhouses that I love so much,are having to have this battle

(01:30:52):
with Black queer men, ourbrothers, over what non-binary
should be or not be, or usingthe right pronouns.
Let's be clear Everybodylearned pronouns in the first
grade.
You learned he, she, they, themand all the rest of them in
first grade.
All trans and non-binary peoplewant from you is just to respect

(01:31:12):
their pronoun.
If they go by they them, justacknowledge them as they them.
It does not harm you or takeanything away from you, and for
me, I feel like when you have aplatform like Gay Magazine, like
you have the power to makechange.
I have been following GayMagazine since the beginning,
when they hardly had anyfollowers and they were brand

(01:31:34):
new.
They've built that platform andit is so beautiful to see Black
excellence come together, and Iwant that black excellence to
continue, which is why I want tocall you in with love, support
and intention and just say justbe a little bit more careful on
the underlying transphobia thatyou post, because your black
trans siblings and non-binarysiblings are affected by it.

(01:31:56):
And so that's really all that Ihave to say.

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
And I just wanted to say that and thank both of you
for being able to come on thisshow today.
Make sure y'all subscribe toour channel so that way you'll
know when we post new videos,and you already know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:14):
So subscribe down below folks and also stay tuned
for more episodes on Tuesdaysfrom the transparency podcast.
Awesome, see Brown, you know Ilove you as my best friend only
because of that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
Let's just say it's you know, yeah, back it up and
say it, back it up and say itOkay.

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
Blossom.
See Brown, you know you're mybest friend in the world and I
love doing these episodes withyou and Greg Ryan.
It's such a pleasure.
We're definitely going to haveyou guys back.
Thanks for having us.
Hopefully we can even get aroundtable.
My hopes are even to do likegame nights with Jubilee folks.
I'm down.
I just I got to make the moneyto expand to get us there.
But I'm working on it.
I'm trying.
But, you know.
Thank you guys again fordriving as far as you did today

(01:32:53):
Of, and you know, stay tunedmore for the episodes to come
and have a wonderful, wonderfulday and Blossom.
Do your clothes out for us.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
And take a little time to enjoy the Transparency
Podcast show.
We will see you next time.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Unseen Side of Political Debates: Jubilee Stars Speak Out

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

The Unseen Side of Political Debates: Jubilee Stars Speak Out

Crime Junkie