Episode Transcript
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Brent (00:06):
Welcome to the Trashlanch
podcast.
It's the only podcast about thePokemon trading card game.
Brent Halliburton, Abonamet,Liam Halliburton, coming from
three different places.
This is an absolutely unheard ofthing for Brent and Liam.
It's absolutely wild.
guys, I think we gotta focus onthe Baltimore meta today, but
(00:27):
there are a couple of thingsthat we absolutely have to talk
about first.
The first thing we gotta talkabout, and I think that this is
a first for you guys, is We gota review.
As always, people, if you leavea review, we will read it on the
pod.
this review is five stars, whichwe very much appreciate, and
(00:47):
says, Amazing.
Amazing podcast.
Keep up the great work.
Also, I have a question.
I've been playing the TCG withmy friends, and I think I'm
really good and want to get intothe competitive scene.
Where should I start?
Thanks, a fan.
what do you guys think?
What advice would you givesomeone who is getting into the
game, thinks they're reallygood, wants to get in a comp?
Abaan (01:12):
you go first Sam.
Liam (01:14):
yeah, I guess I would say,
I would say like one start going
to locals and then two, get onTwitter.
I think that's like the easiestway to become familiar with the,
competitive scene like,
Abaan (01:26):
If you asked me even a
month ago, or like two months
ago, I'd have a completelydifferent answer.
But I think now, I think, lookat the last few tournaments,
just rip some lists from there,you know, rip all the top meta
lists and just play ladder.
I think ladder's lit.
I was hating for no reason, youknow, I thought like,
Liam (01:41):
yes, I know me,
Abaan (01:42):
that.
Liam (01:43):
me and Bond have gone on
the
Abaan (01:44):
players are not good.
I still don't think ladderplayers are very good, but I
think it's like, they're likeregional player good, you know?
Like, that's what you're gonnasee at regionals, so,
Liam (01:53):
Yeah.
I think the quality of play islower, but you have a lot of
compensation for that in thevolume of games.
it does a better job recreating,the competitive environment, and
the lists are closed.
when you do testing with yourfriend, after the first game,
the lists are basically open,because you're playing the same
decks, back and forth at eachother, and it, really affects
(02:13):
how you play the game, and, howrash you are approaching every
decision.
And so, yeah, I think ladder,it's obviously the sauce, bro,
every good player's on theladder.
Abaan (02:24):
I think all my complaints
about the ladder are still
valid, it's just that my biggestissue with it is you're right,
lists are open when you playagainst your friend, but the
problem is that people on ladderplay, so bad around Closed
Lists, they just give you thegame, and you feel weird, like,
am I supposed to, abuse the factthat I play a tech for the
situation, especially becauseI've been playing a lot of
Pigeon on Ladder, they'll justbench some, thing that, gets
Ogre Pawned, and, that's it, thegame is just over, and it felt
like kind of a use, I feel likemy Ladder win rate is,
(02:45):
artificially high on certaindecks the surprise factor is too
high, you know?
Liam (02:49):
Yeah, I agree, but I think
that's also like, it's like a
very realistic thing to expect.
a lot of people don't approachit this way.
it really goes to show how newour game is.
And then I think a lot of peopleare thinking on like level one,
right?
For like poker, right?
Which is like, I'm not exactlysure.
Ivan's more familiar with theselevels than me, but it's like,
just like what do I have?
(03:09):
And like, what does my opponenthave?
Abaan (03:12):
No, like level one of
poker is like, what do I have,
like they don't even think aboutwhat do they have,
Liam (03:15):
like, well, there's a
little bit of that, but there's
also at least for me, and Ithink a lot of players in the
same band that I am, I miss alot of ideas based on what does
my opponent think I have, whereI prize something, and I'm like,
okay, I have to build somestrategy around this prize, when
I miss ideas that are just whatif I'm just a dog, and They
don't know I prized this, youknow, so I can just jam it down
in this random way that wecompletely lose the perfect
(03:36):
knowledge, right, of course,they don't know what's happening
Abaan (03:40):
Not so much when you play
like you prize something, like
you make it too obvious, likethere is some level of like, not
even good or bad play, likethere is like a knowledge
disparity, right?
And so sometimes when you prizesomething and then you start
trying to play around it, thenyour opponent within five
seconds is like, oh, this mustbe prized.
And they get that knowledge forfree, right?
If you're just playing normally,and the thing is prized, as long
as you don't try to, grab it atsome moment where, you're
(04:00):
supposed to grab it, using theknowledge disparity is, an
actual aspect of the game, it'snot, abusing how, bad or good
they are at the game,
Liam (04:06):
Yeah,
Abaan (04:10):
I think, literally, if
you jammed, like, hundreds of
ladder games, you literally mustget good,
Liam (04:15):
dude, I've jammed so much
louder,
Abaan (04:17):
Yeah, me too.
Liam (04:18):
three months, bro.
Abaan (04:19):
Yeah, I hate it, but,
it's fun.
Brent (04:21):
how much do you think
your win rate is artificially
inflated?
Because, yeah, if you play adeck like Pidgeot or like
Snorlax or something, the guy'slike, I could beat you, but I
ain't got all day, so I'mmascuba go next.
Abaan (04:33):
I don't think that
happens that often because I've
had people do the opposite tome.
Like, they're completely lostand they just sit there and,
Liam (04:39):
No, yeah,
Abaan (04:40):
to scoop.
Brent (04:41):
Yeah, is that
Liam (04:42):
but I actually think, I
was like thinking this about the
same thing today earlier, but Ithink, the opposite of like they
refuse to scoop is actually morecommon, like much, much more
common, like at the early roundsof a regional where like, you
know, they're dead lost, allthey can do is hit for like 20
each turn into your snx.
But like, because it's aregional and you know, like they
paid a bunch of money to bethere, they don't wanna scoop
(05:04):
like round three,
Abaan (05:05):
They're also cooking
themselves.
They're literally knocking thema chance to win the series.
Liam (05:08):
no, they, like, I would
say like the scoops usually
happen early on, but like.
You know, especially in the game2, right, like, there's like, no
incentive to scoop, you know?
Abaan (05:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I I I No one's ever scooped,like, a game 2.
Liam (05:19):
They just, they just stick
it out, like, always, right?
Whereas on ladder, I think it'slike, it's more of like a coin
flip of whether or not theylike, scoop too early, or just
never scoop at all, you know?
Brent (05:30):
Alright, so, I think the
advice I would give somebody if
they said, I think I'm good atPokemon, but I want to get into
competitive, is, like, if you'renot going to your locals, you
gotta go to your locals.
Like, League Challenges andLeague Cups are posted on
Pokemon.
com.
Go, put in your zip code, findsome local League Challenges and
(05:52):
League Cups, and go, and, like,do it.
Go to a bunch of those.
Like, we didn't even understandhow to qualify for Worlds when
we started going to Locals.
And, like, it wasn't until afterLiam, like, did well at one or
two Locals that, like, somebodyexplained to us what the heck
that meant.
But, like, we were just havingfun, like, playing with Locals.
And, like, the next step afterLocals is, like, Regionals.
(06:15):
And when you go to Regionals,most of the time you're gonna
travel a fair distance.
Even if you're going to, like,the only Regional of the year
that's close to you, anywhereclose to you.
It's probably still a fairdistance away, and, uh, uh,
you'll wanna, like, see yourhomies from locals there.
Um, you know, if you feel likeyou haven't yet built a
(06:36):
relationship with anyone that's,like, in your local region
playing competitively, um, Youshould play more locals because
you probably haven't playedenough because Pokemon's like
the friendliest game in theworld and like the locals want
to be homies.
And if you are there and you'reexcited, they'll be excited for
you and like excited to haveyou.
And then you'll have likelocals, uh, that know the
(06:59):
competitive scene, know how toget into regionals, which can be
hard to get into because uh,they frequently sell out And
yeah, I mean you can't just showup at a regional and think
you're gonna get, uh, to competelike back.
You could back in the day.
You have to, like, get yourticket well in advance, and
it's, like, much easier to,like, go to Locals, do League
(07:22):
Cups, do League Challenges, and,and test yourself that way, and
get a sense of, of how you stackup against your Locals, before
you say, hey, let me go competeagainst 3, 000 other people and
see how good I am.
Compete against 50
Abaan (07:35):
I think one
Brent (07:35):
are.
Abaan (07:37):
I don't know how many,
like, juniors and seniors
listen, but, like, the biggestkey code ever if you're younger
than a master's is, like, go toyour, like, card game like, card
store local.
I don't know how common it is,like, I obviously live in
Seattle, so, like, I haveTabletop, which is, like, one of
the most lit, like, locals youcan go to, but if you, like,
have any kind of, like,reasonable local, like, 10
(07:58):
entry, It's like store creditpricing, like, if you're younger
than Masters, like, playing withMasters is like the biggest
cheat code ever to get goodfast.
Like, I didn't realize this whenI was a kid, and I wish someone,
like, you know, tapped me on theshoulder and told me, like, you
know, you're not actually goodat the game, you're just like,
you're in Seniors, so like, youfeel like you're good, but like,
I don't know.
Once you, like, play againstMasters, it's just like, it's
just, the whole world, like,opens up, you know?
(08:20):
I feel like in Juniors andSeniors, it's like, every game
is like the standard, like, youattack when you can, and you do
as much damage as you can, andsee what happens, you know?
Brent (08:28):
Absolutely, and, and, I
mean, Tabletop is one of the
best, but there are, myimpression is If you live in a
major city, there's definitelymultiple good card stores near
you.
If you live in like a B tiercity, like major metro area,
there is good card stores nearyou.
I mean, we've played at localsin San Antonio, Paris, New York,
(08:51):
New Jersey, Philadelphia, D.
C., Baltimore, there are likegood local card stores like
everywhere.
You can find a good local cardstore.
Las Vegas, I mean.
We, uh, so many times when, uh,Liam and Walker were little,
when we went on vacation, we'dbe like, let's just go to
whatever local card storesaround here, and they were
(09:11):
always lit.
It was always fun, and thelocals were always, like, super
cool guys that thought it wasabsolutely wild that, like, some
random juniors were rolling in,uh, with, like, tier 1 decks and
blowing them off the board andsending them home.
Uh, that happened, that happenedall the time.
Abaan (09:32):
Oh, that happens on
Tabletop too, it's kind of
funny, like, all the juniors,like, they're all coached by,
like, Chinoy or someone, so,like, they always, they always
have, like, the most, theyalways have, like, our lists,
like, I'd say, like, theTabletop, like, people like me,
like, the Kawasaki stuff, like,all the kids have our lists, so,
if you're, like, it's, like,weird, like, the middle tier,
like, Masters and stuff, they,like, they often lose to the
kids who just have, like, themost lit lists, and they just,
(09:54):
like, draw well and play alrightand get it done, you know?
Brent (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, well, and,
and, you know, what's funny, I
think, I think a lot of, a lotof locals, the locals have
their, like, kind of, like, ownweird squirrelly metagame, so if
you just show up at a randomlocal with a Tier 1 deck, it'll,
like, do pretty well, becausethey're, like, all teched out
for this, like, squirrellymetagame, and, and you're like,
I just have an incrediblyconsistent list that I hit
(10:18):
people with.
And they're like, D'oh, you gotme there.
Right, like, they're playingtheir pet decks, and you show up
with a good deck, and you'relike, Yeah, this good deck just
beats your pet deck.
Of course it does.
It's a good deck.
It's not bad.
Abaan (10:32):
That's why it's a good
deck.
Brent (10:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Alright, um, we very muchappreciate the review.
Thanks, a fan.
Even if you're not Mike Fouchet,we really appreciate the review.
It's really, really good stuff.
Um Eban, I wanted Cam and Miketo be here for this part, but we
also have to say, I think Liam'sfirst classes are tomorrow.
Abaan (10:54):
Yeah.
Brent (10:54):
Do you have, do you have
big college advice for Liam the
day before he starts college?
Abaan (11:00):
Uh, I mean, like, one
advice I give you is like, if
you start skipping class, youlike, never stop.
Like, realistically, like,
Brent (11:09):
Liam's like, great!
Abaan (11:11):
no, no, no, no, like,
once you skip, like, you're
like, it's like, the firstclass, you're just like, ah,
man, like, I just didn't wake upin time, no big deal, right?
And then like, then you don'tfeel any consequence, like, no
one's like over your shoulder,like, you gotta go.
And like.
I'm not gonna say that you'regonna like completely crash and
burn if you start missingclasses But like it catches up
to you like especially if youdon't like rectify the situation
(11:31):
yourself like I don't know Itlike it just catches up to you
like I've had
Liam (11:36):
exactly, bro, like,
missing, missing one class is
like, no big deal, but then youthink it's no big deal, and you
start missing a lot of classes,
Abaan (11:42):
Yeah, and like once it
starts being different classes
that you start missing that'swhen it's like it's so cooked
You're like man today.
I have to sit in the library andcatch up on two different like
Like, two different sets of likeseven lectures, like, oh my
goodness, bro, like, it's likethe worst day ever.
And then I guess, other adviceis like, I felt like I, I, I
(12:02):
didn't play Pokemon for thefirst couple years of college,
and like, I don't know, it wasalright, I guess I made some
friends and stuff, but like, Iregret it.
Just keep playing Pokemon, bro,that game's lit, the game's lit,
game's lit right now, just.
If the game ever becomes like,trash to play for some reason, I
don't even know what the formerwould have to be.
Then like drop like don't playif you're not having fun,
obviously, but like as long asthis format's even remotely
(12:23):
playable Never let it go, bruh.
Game's lit.
That's my two piece advice.
You're welcome.
Brent (12:34):
Alright, guys, let's talk
about Baltimore.
Baltimore is, I guess, a weekand a half ish away.
Uh, um, so I went and looked atlike the play limitless results
from yesterday, and there waslike Sunny's Weekly, and then
there was like some othertournament, and Drago won them
both.
And I thought, uh, eitherOnline's a complete fraud, or,
(12:58):
uh, the meta is gonna be likewildly different in Baltimore.
And like, I mean, let's beclear, probably that means
Online's a complete fraud,because also it's Sunny's, like,
cloth top aided, I mean.
That sounds like a fraud to me.
I don't know.
Liam (13:15):
Um, no, I think, uh, I
think Drago's still a very legit
deck.
Like, of course, everybody knowsit's, like, the best I can
format.
Even if bad matchups are notthat bad, it's good matchups are
amazing.
Like,
Brent (13:27):
No, no, not Regidrago.
Dragapult.
Liam (13:30):
Oh, Dragapult?
Brent (13:32):
won both.
Liam (13:33):
it won both?
Wow, I, I'm really blown away bythat.
Um,
Abaan (13:38):
I'm looking right now
like,
Liam (13:40):
not, not because I think
the deck is bad, I'm just, I'm
just kind of surprised.
I, I actually think it, like, Ithink there's going to be
Brent (13:47):
Oh, it was Deckout
Mondays was the other
tournament.
So this was a 193 persontournament and a 128 person
tournament.
Liam (13:54):
Um, I don't think any of
the best players are going to
show up with it, but I thinkthere's going to be like, you
know, one like, you know,somewhat notable group that
shows up with um, or player whoshows up with like, a sick
Dragapult list, and there's alsogoing to be a bunch of like, you
know, Dragapult Xatu in themasses, um, I think.
(14:17):
Like, not a ton, but um, a solidamount.
Like, like that deck is likewell positioned.
It's a, uh.
It's a good answer to the, uh,the Beatstick decks.
It's like, solid against AncientBox, solid against Raging Drago,
like, the deck is solid.
Abaan (14:36):
I feel like I'm gonna
sound like a broken record on
this, but like, man, I thoughtthat too.
I was like, oh.
Like how I like I want to playDrago, but all these B Stick
decks are so terrible.
And then I like watched likegood players play Drago and did
B Sticks and like The way theyuse, like, Kira, and, like, you
can Jaren with Cleffa, and,like, Radzard is lit, like, I
don't know, man.
I think Draugr is, like, the,it's just, it's already the
(14:57):
better Dragon Ball deck in,like, a lot of, like, like,
mirror matches against Zard,etc, etc, but it's, like, it
also handles the B6 just fine.
I think, like, you're probablyslightly unfavored into, like,
Bolt.
I think you're, like, fine toride on.
I'm not even sure, like, of theB6, like, which one you're,
like, the least happy to playagainst.
Like, all three feel, like,Totally
Liam (15:18):
they're like all the same.
Yeah, like, they literally, it'sthe same engine, and they all
just have to hit like, boss KOthree times in a row.
And like, it's not likesignificantly harder for any of
them, right?
Abaan (15:30):
Uh, I will say, like,
Raging Bolt has, like, the
Liam (15:33):
Yeah, Raging Bolt, it
loses all the energy.
Abaan (15:35):
No, but Raging Bolt gets
to kill a Drago V Star.
Like, where I don't never beable to kill a Drago V Star is
relevant.
Like, it comes up.
For sure
Liam (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I agree
with that, but I, I think you
have, like, some compensationin, like, other areas.
Like,
Abaan (15:49):
I'm aware.
I think that's why, like, it'sroughly 50 50 for, like, all
three of them.
Or maybe, like, slightlyunfavored.
But I don't know.
I'd honestly
Liam (15:56):
Yeah, I mean, like,
there's slight differences in
how you approach each one asDrago, but yeah, it's all, like,
Abaan (16:01):
But do you think
Dragapult is favorite into all
of them?
Like, Dragapult's all that beatsthem all?
That sounds
Liam (16:07):
I mean, like, it's, it's
kind of like, you do, like, the
same thing as, like, Dengar,like, you basically get to play
Drago except you don't have tobench three Teal Masks on turn
one, right?
Like, At least that's the idea.
And like, you lose a lot of theother, like, Drago sauce, right?
Abaan (16:25):
Yeah.
Liam (16:25):
don't, you don't have to
bench a bunch of Teal masks.
Um,
Brent (16:31):
are you guys, are you
guys on like a sneaky deck now?
Or are you guys on likesomething that's just like so
meta we should talk about it?
Abaan (16:40):
I guess it's kind of
sneaky, but like, honestly,
Like, even if I I think we cantalk about it, kind of, like,
Liam (16:46):
Yeah, we,
Abaan (16:47):
into, like, card
specifics,
Liam (16:48):
it.
Nobody, nobody really cares.
I actually, I actually think,like, Some of these ladder
players, they have it ingrainedinto their mind what this deck
is, bro.
Abaan (16:57):
Really?
You think you and I have beenbeating that many people on
ladder that they're, like,Traumatized.
Liam (17:02):
I hit the same players
like over and over and over
Abaan (17:05):
No, same, I know, like,
Haru, like, PokiKa, something,
like, a bunch of numbers, like,that guy, I own him.
Every time I see him, like, hestarted insta pooping to me now,
actually.
I've seen him, like, five times,like, he's just literally over
it, man.
Poor guy.
Liam (17:18):
Yeah, the queue times have
gotten like so long too.
Abaan (17:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Are you, like, 2k yellow aswell, right now?
Liam (17:25):
like 2, 500 right now.
Abaan (17:26):
You're 12?
Damn, bro.
Okay, I
Brent (17:28):
He's playing a lot of
ladder, he said it.
Abaan (17:32):
No, I know, but I thought
I was playing a lot of ladder
Brent (17:33):
like five days but
classes haven't started.
I assume he's just
Liam (17:37):
It's been, this is like
the most chill five days of my
life, bro.
I like,
Abaan (17:44):
Have you actually just
been playing ladder at college,
bro?
That's my third piece of advice,don't do that.
Like, go outside.
I don't know.
Playing ladder
Liam (17:52):
been doing a lot of that.
Brent (17:55):
You know, is it, is it
different making friends in
college when people have likedevices?
Like I mean, obviously, I wentto college at a time where I
didn't have cell phones, like,nobody had cell phones, so there
was just, like, freshman packs,like, wandering around
everywhere, because, like, theydidn't have anything else to do
except for wander around.
Liam (18:13):
packs, bro.
Brent (18:14):
Yeah, like, like, all,
like, it would be like 15 people
being like, oh, let's all go todinner, because, like, what were
they going to do?
There was nothing else to do, wedidn't have devices.
Abaan (18:22):
I think it's a little
different for me because I went
to my state school, but, like, Iwould say it's kind of similar
for me too, as your experience.
I made friends just going to thedining hall, and then I saw some
people from, high school orsomething I knew.
I don't know.
And it just like, everyone knewsomeone and it became like a
bigger and bigger group.
Brent (18:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Abaan (18:43):
Liam on the other hand,
he's cooked, bro.
He's not seeing like the grass,he's not seeing anything, bro.
It's just his roommate and
Liam (18:49):
I've actually been, I've
been playing a lot of basketball
Abaan (18:52):
Ooh,
Liam (18:53):
the last few days, cause
yeah, I uh, dude, I, literally
there's like a 5 on 5 game like,2 minute walk away from me, bro.
Like, it's like lit.
I, um,
Brent (19:05):
That's sweet, that's
sweet.
But you know what, I always feellike the problem with basketball
for me is like, it's toointense.
I don't know if like, I wouldbecome friends with people I, I
don't know, I mean I've kind ofbecome friends, obviously like
the guys I play basketball with,I've been playing basketball
with them for like 10, 12 yearsnow, so like, like I kind of am
friends with them, but like I, Iknow, I always used to tell Liam
(19:27):
he should join the UltimateFrisbee team because my
impression is like they don'treally care, so like it's easy
to be friends and hang outbecause Like they're not that
invested in winning.
At least that was what I feltlike was the difference between
the intramural ultimate
Liam (19:40):
Yeah, no, I don't know,
basketball's been pretty chill,
um,
Abaan (19:43):
do you ever get dinner
with the guys after or do you
just go home?
Liam (19:47):
ah, no, no, not yet.
Abaan (19:50):
All right, that's like,
that's like one of the few ways,
after like a long, long likepickup session, like, uh, we're
hungry, bro.
Gotta go to like
Liam (19:57):
Bro, do you not have to,
you don't have to like, go
shower afterwards, bro?
Abaan (20:01):
Nah bro, you're all
sweaty, just go, go eat.
Liam (20:04):
Word.
Brent (20:05):
you go.
All right.
Um, so, so, uh, so what's theplay then guys?
Talk to me about Baltimore.
Talk to me about the meta.
Talk to me about how you win it.
Abaan (20:16):
the whole format is
defined by Drago.
It's like, you need to have asolid answer to Drago, but
that's kind of a paradox.
There's really nothing thatbeats Drago percent of the time.
I think we have an answer that'smaybe slightly better than that,
but it hinges on informationdisparity.
I think if Drago knew exactlythe 60 cards we're playing in
(20:38):
Pidget It'll probably be close,closer to 55.
So I don't know, if you're goingto Baltimore though, and you
don't have to play, literallyjust spam Drago.
That's my that would be myadvice to anyone who's like, not
sure what to do.
Just just spam Drago all week,and the next week.
Get as good as possible, and ripit.
Liam (20:58):
Um, I guess specifically
to answer your question about
our deck, we've been playinglike a Snorlax Pidget hybrid.
Um, basically just like, back tothe basics on this like, uh,
this Pidget control thing, like,where Alessandro started out,
um, when he first made the deck,like, with like, we're just
playing a Snorlax build, exceptwe cut some of the supporters
(21:20):
for a Pidget line, and That has,like, you know, ups and downs.
Um, it fixes, like, some of yourmatchups, but when you can't get
the Pidget out into, like, othermatchups, it's harder to spam,
like, the Sisters and the Eerie.
The Pidget becomes your accessto those.
Um, and, like, sometimes it'sbeneficial, sometimes it's,
like, detrimental.
(21:42):
Dex, like, it's got someweaknesses, but I think it's
really good still.
Um,
Abaan (21:47):
I think the simplest
thing that we've brought up
about it was like, in thematchups where you don't go
Pidget, like, if you need to hitEerie or Sisters, it's like, not
acceptable to try to just be rawBlockbox, because you only have
one of each.
So like you're just not gonnasee those cards, right?
And you only have two gears.
Maybe even less, I just saw yourmessage.
One gear is crazy work, bro.
I don't know.
I'm not sure if I can rock withthat.
Liam (22:09):
I don't know, dude.
I Earlier today, I, uh Open withdouble gear, miss both.
Gah! Get those cards out ofhere, bro! Like,
Brent (22:18):
Misses both gear and
says, you know what I should do?
I should cut all the gears.
Abaan (22:22):
Yes.
Liam (22:23):
I have both of them on my
hand and I'm bricked, bro?
Like, get me a Let me play somegood cards, bro.
Abaan (22:30):
Give me an Irda.
That's your answer.
Give me an Irda.
Liam (22:35):
No, I also like the second
Rotom, because it ups my chances
of the heavy ball turning into aRotom.
So,
Abaan (22:41):
like, you have the
weirdest reasoning for this
Brent (22:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Playing a second Rotom so you'remore likely to prize the Rotom
does not sound like a superstrategy.
Abaan (22:50):
I would be more down with
that logic if we're still on 2
heavy, right?
Then I'd be like, oh, that makesa lot of sense, like, increasing
our outs.
But now we're on 1 again.
Liam (22:58):
no, like, it's also
because, like, yeah, it's
because the Rotom is, like, agood raw draw.
Like, it's a better raw drawthan this gear, bro.
Like, let me get my Rotom downturn one, and I think, if you
miss Rotom turn one versusgetting Rotom down turn one,
that's like a, probably an 80percent swing to your, like,
general win rate, bro.
(23:18):
Like, maybe like 50, 60 percent.
Like,
Abaan (23:21):
You
Liam (23:21):
you go from like, dead
loss to like, straight winning
in so many matchups.
Abaan (23:26):
You know one thing I
wanted to ask you, Liam, is
like, what do we think aboutquad thorns right now?
Cause like, to me, it never madesense.
So, like, I have no finger onthe pulse, like, it didn't make
sense before Worlds, it, like,won Worlds, I guess, and then,
like, it still doesn't makesense to me, and I'm actually
surprised it's, like, worse,like, are people playing this
deck or not, like, is it graphicworthy, or?
Liam (23:48):
I don't know, bro.
One thing's for sure.
I'm keeping this like, tripleMimmy, bro.
Abaan (23:53):
Really?
Liam (23:54):
yeah,
Abaan (23:55):
I think it's, I've been
wanting to cut
Liam (23:57):
It's like what you said
earlier, bro.
Like, like, I actually think it,obviously, it Quadthorns player
is.
Like, you will, you will lose ifyou don't just like, rip, bro.
Right?
And you play less than threeMimmy.
It's like, so easy to lose.
And like, I play three Mimi,Syned up over the Thorn, oh, I
(24:17):
win,
Abaan (24:18):
It's relaxing, yeah, I
just put it down,
Liam (24:20):
it's over, like,
Abaan (24:22):
And I think Quadthorns is
off the radar, so, like, they're
not gonna, like, They're theQuadlords players aren't gonna
be worried about three mibisenough to put like, the the text
in, like the Sylene, or thethird colon third colon is a
crazy word, Sylene, right?
Liam (24:33):
yeah, I like, I think so
too, like every single time,
every single time I hit theseThorns on the ladder, bro, I'm
like, they always play it allthe way out, always.
Literally, I bench the threeMimi and they don't scoop it,
I'm like, bro, do you have like,Sandaconda, and I'm like,
aggressively digging for Eerieand Sisters, and like, trying to
spam them, hit with the Luxray,like, I'm like, I'm like, Doing
everything I can to hunt forthis Cologne, and then like, I
(24:55):
like, don't get it, and thenthey're like, Cologne, Kayle,
Mimi, Cologne, Kayle, Mimi, andI'm like, bro, I have the last
one, like, you know, I basicallyjust lose to another Cologne,
and sit there and draw a passfor 30 turns, bro.
but yeah, like, it doesn't, itdoesn't make sense for them to
ever, like, adjust that much, Iguess, for like, their, their
Mimi, because it's like, so mucheasier for us to go, like, Mimi
for Cologne with them, becausethe, the deck space means a lot
(25:17):
more to them,
Abaan (25:18):
So is it graphic?
Or no?
You think it's best of the rest?
Liam (25:22):
Best of the rest.
Abaan (25:24):
of the rest?
Yeah.
Liam (25:25):
Yeah, best of the rest,
dude, cuz like, all these
beatsticks are gonna like, takeup spots on the graphic, even
though it's
Abaan (25:32):
each other,
Liam (25:33):
same deck in disguise,
right?
Abaan (25:35):
of catalyze each other,
right?
Like, how many Beastic playersare there gonna be, like, you
know?
Liam (25:40):
I don't know.
I think there's gonna be a lot,bro.
I think, um, or like, I thinkthere's gonna be like, slightly
more than Thorns.
Like, you know, like, RagingBull gets in at like, 7, and is
like, 5 or something,
Abaan (25:50):
Sure, sure.
Do we want to do like aBaltimore meta share?
Like from top to bottom?
Because I haven't like thoughtabout it actually.
I'd be
Liam (26:02):
Sure.
Abaan (26:04):
I think Draugr goes
firmly at 20.
Liam (26:07):
Firmly at 20?
Abaan (26:08):
Yes, I think that deck is
Liam (26:10):
Dude, I have it at like,
15.
Tops.
Abaan (26:13):
Really?
Liam (26:14):
Yeah, I
Abaan (26:14):
I don't know.
I think every single good playerin the room is
Brent (26:17):
It was 25 at Worlds,
right?
Liam (26:19):
yeah, I think if we re ran
Worlds right now, like, all the
Worlds players basically playeda second event, I think it'd be
like 20.
I think it's in like a worsespot than it was before.
Right?
It's not, um, as clearly, like,dominating everything.
Like, the Beat Sticks havegained a lot of traction.
Um, I think it's, like, slightlyworse than it was before.
Is, like, the generalperception.
(26:39):
And then we're going into anevent that's not just the
world's players.
We're
Abaan (26:42):
Yes, that's a good point.
I actually, I think you'reright.
It's probably closer to like 17,18.
I like kind of was in theworld's mindset and I think 20
percent of like World'scompetitors will have Draugr,
but like, that's
Liam (26:55):
I agree.
Abaan (26:56):
not the meta share,
right?
Like, that's not how
Liam (26:58):
We're gonna have, like, 40
percent other.
Yes.
Abaan (27:03):
And then deck two?
What's natural?
Like, it already gets dicey forme, picking deck two.
Liam (27:09):
I think it's I think it's
actually gonna be Charizard.
Um
Abaan (27:12):
Really?
I was thinking like Maraadon.
Brent (27:16):
I do think there's
Liam (27:16):
No, I definitely think the
Beat Sticks are actually gonna
drop off a little bit.
Um, I, I think Ancient Box isgonna be more popular than,
they're, they're gonna be likepretty popular.
Mmm, I don't know, I,
Abaan (27:31):
we, you and I both played
Ancient Box for like, two games,
and like, Could just not
Liam (27:36):
they're, they're, they're,
Abaan (27:37):
right?
Liam (27:39):
they're delusional.
They're gonna play Ancient Box,
Abaan (27:41):
They're that
Liam (27:42):
People are high on that.
Abaan (27:43):
But how can you even play
the deck in testing at all and
not just like want to vomit?
Like, it's so bad.
It doesn't work.
Liam (27:50):
Bro, that like, they
always send it anyway, bro.
And like, it's also because wehaven't been testing against,
like, we've only played Ancientwhen we're testing against, like
people in our group, right?
Um, we haven't like hit theladder with it.
Like, I think that deck hitsdifferent once a beatstick.
Like, oh yeah, this,
Abaan (28:11):
Oh yes, we're two
shotting and then all of a
sudden we're one shotting andthe whole time we're just one
prizers.
Like, that does soundreasonable, yeah.
Liam (28:19):
um, so yeah, I, I think
it, I think it hits a little
different once a beatstick, bro.
Um, mm hmm.
Yeah, and people, yeah, peoplecope themselves on that deck
super hard, bro.
Like, I, I asked them,
Brent (28:34):
know, I think this myth
is why Dragapult is suddenly
winning all the onlinetournaments, right?
These guys are like, oh yeah,this is going to be great, this
is going to be great.
then, like, some guy playingstraight Dragapult is like,
we're winning this thing! It'seasy!
Abaan (28:49):
Yes,
Brent (28:50):
We're farming! We're
farming!
Liam (28:54):
um,
Abaan (28:54):
tournament?
Actually, I'm interested, I'mgonna go look.
But I'm pretty sure, like,there's like, tournaments are
completely skewed by how manyAncient Box you hit.
The more Ancient Box you hit,like, the better you do.
Brent (29:04):
Yeah, that's a fair
question.
How many intro boxes did this,
Abaan (29:07):
He hit two.
Liam (29:08):
Um, oh, yeah, I was
Brent (29:10):
yeah, that's how we do
Liam (29:11):
they're also very, like, I
think they like, they
overestimate their matchups intothe, the tricky decks, right?
Like, the, the Dragos and theGuardies, because Like, I, I, I
think you have to play, you haveto play like extremely well
against Ancient Box with thosedecks to, um,
Abaan (29:30):
to realize
Liam (29:31):
make it hard for them.
But like, you can make it likevery easy for them, too.
And like, once you play againstsomebody who makes it easy, you
think the match is just like,ugh, smooth sailing, you know?
Abaan (29:39):
Yeah.
I don't think you have to playthat well, like, all you have to
do is, like, think about yourCurum turn and, like, everything
just makes sense, you know?
Liam (29:47):
you like very in tune with
the fact that, like, their deck
is like very bad, you know?
Abaan (29:53):
Yes, yes, you're right,
you're
Liam (29:54):
You have to be like very
aware that they like just do not
have it like that, right?
Like,
Abaan (29:59):
Yeah, like, you could,
like, boss Greninja and, like,
you could just do crazy, crazythings, like, it doesn't even
matter, like,
Liam (30:05):
yeah, exactly,
Abaan (30:06):
just spots, like,
throughout the game you'll just
find, like, great spots, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Liam (30:12):
like, I don't know, like,
I play, um, I feel like if I was
on the Guardi side, like, theAncient Box player would be
like, Oh, yeah, this is, thismatchup is lit.
This matchup is lit.
But like, bro, we both playedagainst Henry, bro.
Ah, ah, bro, like,
Abaan (30:27):
I don't know, I don't
think Henry was doing anything
that crazy to me.
I was just playing Ancient Box,getting iota'd
Liam (30:32):
time I play against Henry,
like, it doesn't feel like, um,
he's doing anything, like, supercrazy, right?
But, like, I, I think, like, Iwould, he's just like always
maxing out like every turn andlike, you know, it's kind what
you expect from somebody who'slike, you know, a strong player
that they basically just like,they know what they're supposed
to do every turn, but like,that's a, that's a deck that has
like a lot of options and like,it's um, at least for me, I, I
(30:55):
think I sometimes, I have likevery bad turns, um, like
occasionally with that deck andHenry like never does.
Abaan (31:03):
Yeah.
I think Henry has like,momentary mistakes, like, not
like, planned mistakes, he'sjust like,
Liam (31:08):
like his, his mistakes are
like.
There are better mistakes tohave than the mistakes that I
make, like, I, like, come out oftown, Oh, I just, I lost the
game, bro.
He's like, ah, mis sequencedthis, like, Vessel Curlia.
My bad, bruh.
Like, I don't know.
Abaan (31:23):
Dude, I don't understand
why Gardevoir is not like, super
hyped going into thistournament, by the way.
Like, is it?
I guess the Dragon Okay, I guessthe Dragonfall matchup's bad,
sure, but like,
Liam (31:32):
it's because you're not
playing Henry's list, bruh.
If you're not playing Henry'slist, like, you're stretched so
far.
Abaan (31:37):
Fair enough.
I guess, yeah, yeah.
I forget, internal testing islike, weird.
That's why you have to take theladder.
Because if you see a ladderguard of war,
Liam (31:45):
imagine you're just
running with the, um, yeah,
like, the list we had, like,prior to Worlds, like, That was
really, a lot worse.
Like, all your, your matchupslike across the board except for
like Charizard are like a lotmore sus, right?
Abaan (31:58):
yeah.
We beat Charizard pretty good.
Liam (32:01):
Yeah,
Abaan (32:02):
Do you think Charizard's
gonna be like, I know you said
it's the second most popular,but like, why would that be the
case?
Liam (32:07):
hmm.
I don't know.
I like, I don't exactly knowwhat else would be the second
most popular.
Like, I, I think um, there's alittle bit to what you said of
like, like the beat stickscannibalize themselves.
So I feel like, um, I feel likethose aren't gonna be like the
most
Abaan (32:19):
Is there any world where
Ancient Box is just at 2?
Liam (32:23):
I think it'll be like
three.
Like, I feel, I, I feel likepeople don't want to like,
Brent (32:27):
I mean, Tord was on the
Charizard, so like, some chunk
of people are gonna be like,Well, I gotta pay Tord 60
because I'm a Liam Halliburtonsubscriber.
And then, like, there's gonna besome chunk of people that are
like, I played Regi and I haveRegrets, so like, now I'm gonna
play Charizard because
Abaan (32:42):
Damn, they're just all
Liam Halliburton in disguise.
They're just different phases ofLiam.
Brent (32:49):
I feel the, like,
Charizard, there's gonna be a
bunch of people who like to playthese, like, big decks, and,
like, they're like, that's a bigdeck and it's not Regi.
Liam (32:56):
This is like, like, I feel
like Charizard would be like the
meta call that I'd make if Iwasn't basically locked on this
Snorlax.
Like, if this Snorlax thing wasnot, like, an option, I'd be
like, oh, dude, you know, like,you can dunk on the Beat Sticks
and beat Ancient Box.
Like, beat the, the counter andthe counter to the counter,
right?
Abaan (33:14):
And like, the Draugr
mashup, like, I'll just I don't
know.
I don't understand it, but like,I assume it's not that bad, the
way like, TOR, if TOR is willingto rip it, like, I assume like,
I assume I could just get betterat it, right?
Liam (33:25):
like, yeah, I think I
think it's fine.
Like, it's not good.
Drago player definitely hasadvantage, but like, you can win
it.
Like, it's just draw a littlebit bad two games and you get
there, right?
Like,
Abaan (33:39):
I don't know, man.
Like, I felt like I was, I washopeless.
It was hopeless when I wasplaying you, in that matchup.
Like, I couldn't even see thelight.
I couldn't even see how I wouldwin.
Yeah,
Liam (33:49):
towards list,
Abaan (33:50):
yeah.
Liam (33:51):
Yeah, I don't know if I'd
rip towards list exactly.
I really like Dusknere, butDusknere is like actually
broken.
That's like, that's maybe theThe card going into Baltimore,
this Duskner guy,
Abaan (34:01):
Yes.
Dusknoir is like the only thingthat causes any problem, like,
any plan I have with any deck,I'm like, man, Dusknoir really
throws a wrench in things.
Like, I hope he doesn't justhave, can Dusknoir this turn, or
else, like, I might be cooked.
But then they're like, they'reonly grabbing one card a turn,
so they really have to have itlike that to beat you, you know?
Liam (34:22):
yeah,
Abaan (34:22):
tough, it's tougher than
you'd think.
Liam (34:25):
yeah, I, I agree, um, but
the, that Duskner thing went
out, like, the decks that pullthe Duskner off, bro, they, they
hit when they, they get it, bro,like, it's, um, it's a card that
just, like, naturally gives somuch control over the prize
trade, right?
Like, you can initiate, like, aone for one whenever you want,
like, that's, like, awesome.
Always, always broken in thislike 2 2 2
Abaan (34:46):
By the way, did you, did
you get a chance to watch this
little Jesse Parker match?
Liam (34:51):
Um, I watched a little bit
of it, I wasn't able to watch
the whole thing.
Abaan (34:54):
Dude, I feel like that
was like, almost, it should be a
meta defining match, but I feellike people are like, probably
not gonna take it in the waylike you're supposed to, but
like, it like, confirmssomething I already knew, like,
committing the bravery charm inRhydon is like, extremely
illegal, and Jesse just did itover and over again, and I'm not
sure like, what people'stakeaways from that set was,
like, did that, like, did theyjust think like, wait, like,
(35:14):
Drago has way more legs than Ithought, or do they think like,
oh, Like, Marado is harder toplay than I thought.
Like maybe if I play it likethis like, I'll do I don't know
like, I'm not sure what
Liam (35:22):
yeah, no,
Abaan (35:23):
the community takeaway
was, but I thought it was
Liam (35:25):
I was thinking that, like,
the bravery charm, like, the
best spot for it is literally,like, at the bottom of the deck.
Like, you have to play it, andyou just pray to god you never
see it the entire game.
Just, like, let it sit there,you know?
Abaan (35:38):
Yeah, exactly.
He was so worried about gettingrazzarted, but like, I think
that's that was
Liam (35:42):
literally the best find
for you.
Like, you're begging for aRadsart, desperately need it.
Abaan (35:47):
like that right?
You just go, Gus, I don't know,somehow Raikou kills something,
then Bear kills something withGus, like, if you can't get it
done like that, you're
Liam (35:54):
is insane.
It's exactly like the Radzard inthat it's something that, it's,
it's an invincible wall.
You can never hit into it,right?
Except it doesn't take aknockout, but it stays on pace.
Like,
Abaan (36:04):
exactly.
Liam (36:06):
it does everything.
Abaan (36:07):
I have no clue why he was
so obsessed with, like, not
letting the Maraadon die toRadzard.
And, like, not to mention Ianwould have to, like, grind just
so many resources to set upRadzard, or, like, as it were to
beat Drago.
Like, I really, I don't knowwhat he was thinking, but, like
I don't know, if you're like anaverage player watching that,
like, what's the takeaway?
Like, do you just think like,oh, Drago's like, Moraydon,
(36:28):
like, maybe a second braverycharm?
Or like, I don't know, like, I,I'm curious, like.
Liam (36:32):
I think there is, there is
some takeaway of Dragos that,
like, every time, I think Ianmanaged to pull it off, like,
one of the games, or like, maybeit was because, um, like, maybe
he was close to pulling it offand I was just, like, thinking
it, but like, I, I don't know.
I feel like I, like, I forgetthis part of, like, the, um, the
(36:53):
Draugr win percentage againstthese, like, Maraenon decks, or,
like, these beat sticks, isalso, like, a turn one hit,
right, like, turn one 130 orturn one Ogre Pawn, like, in,
into a lot of starters, that'sjust, like, game winning,
Abaan (37:07):
Yeah, yeah, you, you make
it happen with Kirim after,
like, ooh.
Liam (37:10):
Damn, bro, that's like,
you have like real winning lines
until like they get first hitand you always win when you get
first hit, bro.
Jeez, man.
It's like,
Abaan (37:21):
I don't know, you don't
always, when you get first hit,
like, you stretch, and then youDrago for 130, and you
Liam (37:24):
Yeah, no, you have to draw
pretty well, right?
But like, you have I don't know,it's, maybe there's a leak of
mine as a player, right?
Um, but I, I always like to belike, in control of the, in
control of the prize trade,right?
Because I, um, I think,
Abaan (37:41):
Then they're just
watching you, I
Liam (37:42):
you get to be the main
character,
Abaan (37:43):
Yeah, they're just
watching you.
Like, does he have it?
Oh, he has it again.
Shucks.
You never want to be the guy onthe other side like, I hope he
doesn't have boss energy.
Oh man, he had it.
Liam (37:54):
Right?
Abaan (37:55):
want to be the guy being
like, just on the slip, bro.
I have it.
Liam (38:01):
like, yeah, no, exactly,
it's um, When you're on the
other side, it's terrible,right?
You're like, Jesus Christ,Rowan.
Oh my God, no, he gets to Hejust drew, like, an extra card?
I guess he's just gonna, like,have it now.
And then, yeah, they always haveit, right?
Like, sometimes they don't haveit.
Or, like, the worst scenario iswhen they mess up their
(38:23):
sequencing, and you can tell,and then they have it anyway.
UGH! I had one of those gamesearlier, um, this week and like
they like messed up theirsequencing they were still
drawing like two thirds of theirdeck there was like 15 cards
they drew like 10 but they likeslightly messed up so that they
they drew from like 15 insteadof 14 then i was like god bro i
(38:45):
can't believe they had it bruhthey were digging for like you
know three outs or something bro
Abaan (38:50):
Dude, Liam's
Liam (38:50):
never punished i guess bro
Abaan (38:52):
like, his favorite line
is like, he'll Iona you into a
deck of like, 30 outs, and maybeyour deck's like 33 cards.
He loves saying, nice rip bro.
It like, I don't know why, itlike, it always gets to me.
Like I was, I'd be like, bro,I'm like, Ultrabotting for like
a Lumini on here.
Like, I could've, I could've hitthe Lumi, the support I'm
looking for.
Like, also like, my hand beforethe Ayano was like, no good
(39:14):
cards.
Like, my odds were like, closeto like
Liam (39:17):
was locked here
Abaan (39:18):
Yeah, I was locked to
win.
And then he just goes, nice ripbro.
And I just, I start fuming.
It's a, it's a good line though.
It's, I don't know, it's like,it's just a good line.
Um, what other decks are therefor Oh, what do you think about
that new Roaring Moon thing?
I know right after Worlds youthought it was like, the best
(39:39):
deck ever.
You kind of cooled down on that,or?
Liam (39:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's
good.
I think it's really 6, though.
Um, it's just, it's kind of likewhat you said, like, there's not
a lot of differentiation betweenthe P6.
Like, it has some slightadvantages, right?
And I think those are lit.
But it's not, like, that muchbetter than everything else, you
know?
Abaan (40:02):
Dude, you know what's
hilarious to me?
There's people who's like,enjoyment of Pokemon,
unironically, is like, playingthese Beastics into each other,
and like, they have like, ahundred games of like, Bolt into
Moon, a hundred games of Maridoninto Bolt, and like, a hundred
games of like, Moon intoMaridon, and they're just like,
they're like, connoisseurs ofthe difference between the
Beastics.
It's like They can tell youconfidently, like, oh yeah,
Moon's like a 52 percentfavorite into Moriartyn.
(40:23):
Like, but, dude, I have no cluewhat goes on in there, like, I,
I, I just try to like, avoid theB6 matches with like a, as far,
I stay as far away as possible,so.
I'm actually like curious, like,what
Liam (40:33):
yeah, I actually don't
think I've played a single game
of those.
Abaan (40:36):
Yeah, I can see him.
Liam (40:38):
maybe, yeah, like, since
Worlds, bro, like,
Abaan (40:40):
Oh no, remember when I
was trying to climb to like,
Arceus as fast as possible on mymain account, and I was playing
Moriartyn?
Liam (40:46):
oh yeah, you were playing
at the time of Dawn, yeah, I
think I played a few games withthat Turbo Moondeck, and maybe I
hit a Fellow Beatstick at somepoint, but like, yeah, I, since
that, I definitely haven'tplayed any games with a
Beatstick, so.
Um, that wasn't into like, youknow, art testing, right?
Abaan (41:05):
I will say that Ancient
Box, Ancient Box popularity
cooks this a little bit.
But like, I feel like somepeople might be listening to
this podcast just to like, hearthe Dango update.
I'm not sure like how manypeople that is, but like, I
think there's probably somesubset who's like interested.
I think uh, Dango's still good.
Dango's still really good.
Like, your Ancient Box matchupis beyond terrible, so like if
(41:25):
that's actually like numberthree, you can't play Dango.
But, I mean, there's I don'tknow, like, none of the other
matches got worse, like,Drago's, like, the same thing it
was, it was, like, slightlyfavored.
All the Beastics are, like,extremely favored.
Uh, yeah, I don't think, uh, Idon't think there's anything
Liam (41:41):
yeah, I think, I think
Dinka was actually pretty sick.
But yeah, I don't like the, uh,the Ancient Books matchup.
Abaan (41:49):
Dude, why does that deck
get populated, dude?
Like, it's the same one Okay,actually, the other the next
question is Lugia.
Like, I've been, like, treatingLugia like it's not gonna be a
deck, but that's probablyincorrect.
I'm not sure where to
Liam (41:59):
yeah, I actually, I don't
know, I saw, I saw Cash put out
like the, um, the weekly onlinesummary or whatever, and Lugia
was actually like number three.
Um,
Abaan (42:09):
right, we're putting the
Jaffa Moat back in.
All right, brother.
Liam (42:12):
I, I never cut it, bro.
Um,
Abaan (42:14):
my goodness.
Liam (42:17):
yeah, I think, I think
it's too late for the, uh, the
Mirror and the, uh, the
Abaan (42:21):
The mirror, as in like,
you know, you and me playing
Finals.
You're gonna have Jok'Mo, I'mgonna have Cutted.
Liam (42:26):
really, really any, like,
um, Pidget with, uh, like, DTEs,
right?
Abaan (42:33):
Dude, I can't even
conceptualize
Liam (42:34):
like, the Mists, like,
Abaan (42:35):
by the way.
Because the miss is important,and the DT is important, right?
You don't want to get Devo'd.
Yeah, it's so
Liam (42:41):
eh, dude, ah, you always
get max value out of the Jack of
Hearts, it's so lame, like, ah,
Abaan (42:46):
No, I think you're just
not allowed to miss the Pidget.
You literally cannot miss thePidget.
You just have to tank the Devoto the face.
Liam (42:53):
yes, but also, like, all
the Pidget decks are only
playing Toucandy, like, or
Abaan (42:58):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
No, I know, I'm like, I thoughtabout this for a while,
actually, like, but youliterally can't afford to.
Liam (43:05):
so, like, it's lame,
Abaan (43:07):
they're not playing all
that, bro.
They're not playing that.
Liam (43:12):
There's a lot of people
that I think, I
Abaan (43:13):
No, no, we don't lose
this entry, by the way.
Like, at all.
We add a city, we add a city.
Liam (43:18):
We don't have VAC right
now.
Abaan (43:21):
Oh my god, they're caping
the, oh, that's actually,
that's, that's smart, yeah,yeah.
Obviously if they do that,you're cooked.
Liam (43:27):
Yeah.
Abaan (43:28):
But sometimes they don't
think it through like that.
They don't expect the city.
Liam (43:31):
then you get them, and you
get them game one.
Game two is never finishing,youngblood.
Ah!
Abaan (43:36):
Hold on.
Yeah, basically what you said,but not in so many words.
Yeah, I think it done, thatmatchup.
But yeah, what is the Lugiamatchup spread?
Like, I feel like I don't playenough Lugia to even understand.
Every Drago under the sun wasplaying Sinnoh at Worlds, but
maybe that's, like, gonnachange.
Liam (43:54):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think, I think it's nothelpful to conceptualize like
the Lugia like matchup spread aslike numbers, but more like,
what do you win?
It's like, well, thesebeatsticks are like bad, but if
you think you're gonna, you'regonna rip fire, bro, they're
actually really good.
like, same with Drago.
Same with, um, pretty much yourentire matchup spread, I think.
(44:16):
Um, yeah, yeah, no, I, Ancientyou can call just straight
favored.
Um,
Abaan (44:23):
do you think?
The list, but like Second Bearis like good enough.
I think Second Bear is likemandatory right at this point.
Liam (44:29):
I love Second Bear, um,
and yeah,
Abaan (44:32):
I mean, we've always
thought it was mandatory.
It just no one, no one cares.
They're all just running thelist.
Brent (44:38):
So if I told you you were
going to draw absolute fire the
entire tournament, what deckwould you play?
Liam (44:45):
maybe Lugia,
Brent (44:46):
Yeah, that's why I asked,
Liam (44:48):
But also,
Brent (44:48):
Lugia, if you knew you
were going to have perfect draws
every turn, Lugia is like thegreatest thing
Abaan (44:53):
what?
No.
If I knew I had Perfect drawsevery turn, I play Draga.
Liam (44:57):
I don't, I don't even, it
doesn't even matter what I play,
like, if you have perfect drawsevery turn, like, you literally
can't lose with whatever deckyou have, like, all the decks
are pretty
Brent (45:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, if
you're going to outdraw
Abaan (45:06):
No, no.
You can lose with, uh, you canlose with Box because inch
Brent (45:10):
what I was thinking.
Why would you play Ancient Box?
It takes you so long.
If you're going to have perfectdraws, you might as well win in
two turns.
Liam (45:19):
yeah, I, I play, like,
Dawn or something, like, you can
get there with any of thebeatsticks if you're, like,
guaranteed to turn one with thePrime or, like, the catcher
heads every single time, like
Abaan (45:29):
Yeah, every Iona, you
just have boss, energy,
generator,
Liam (45:32):
Yeah, all right, like, you
get there with the beat sticks,
you get there with anything.
Abaan (45:37):
I think actually, no, but
I'm interested in the concept of
your question.
I think Draw goes like animmature answer, let me think.
I think it's, Has to be like,bold, actually, right?
Like, The fact that you could,like, with Perfect Draws, one
shot everything, And I assumePerfect Draws includes just, you
get to go second, like, You getto one shot everything, and
like, you can guess every time,I don't know, is bold, like, the
play?
I don't know.
Liam (45:57):
Dude, feel like I always
win the flips, bro, and then,
but my last major event atWorlds, I lost, like, I think I
lost, like, every flip, bruh.
Like, yeah, bro.
It's
Brent (46:09):
Well, I mean, you're
wondering why you did poorly.
Like, there you go.
I mean, I do, right?
Like, part of why I ask is, Imean, at some level, I mean, you
have to draw well to win.
Like, that's how the game isplayed, right?
Like, if you were going to drawpoorly, I don't know if, like,
there's a deck you can choosethat's going to fix those
problems.
Abaan (46:27):
Nah, bro.
Play Block Clack, get it done.
You just win like half yourgames anyways.
I look at my hand, they're justso atrocious, but then my
opponent just like, creates aliability.
I was just sitting there, withnothing.
Liam (46:37):
yeah, like, I know, right?
You, like, look at the hand,you're like, the only thing I'm
gonna do for the next, like,three turns is, like, Bench
Block lacks, and like, maybeit's Penny, but it's Boss,
right?
And like,
Abaan (46:48):
They vomit all over
themselves and like,
Liam (46:50):
somehow get it done, bro.
Brent (46:52):
Yeah,
Abaan (46:52):
think Block Clacks is
the, like, I'm gonna draw bad,
I'm gonna somehow still make ithappen.
Brent (46:56):
right.
Alright, you know, if you feellike you have a deck where you
can outplay people, that's thesauce right there.
Abaan (47:02):
Oh yeah, we're playing
it.
Liam and I are locked.
Liam (47:04):
deck is like, actually
like, pretty consistent, too.
Like, I feel like every time Idraw like, these like, actual
atrocious, like, double gear,double miss hands, I'm like,
able to like, you know, just,you know, take them on the chin
and just be like, or like, turnthe other cheek, whatever, um,
the saying is, and like, like,It's not happening again, bro.
And then just like, boom, five,six, seven, eight, nine games.
We're like, just, wow.
Abaan (47:25):
I mean, getting 2500 ELO,
like, I think ELO is, like, fake
on live, like, it doesn't reallymatter, but, like, there's
something to be said for, like,how are you winning games?
Like, your deck can't be thatbad if you're winning, because,
like, you need a certain levelof draws to, like, get it done,
you know?
Liam (47:39):
Yeah, um, I agree.
I think, well, yeah, I thinklike, once you reach a certain,
a certain bar, and like, thatbar is not 51%, right, win rate.
It's like, it's a little bithigher than that, like, You
know, your ladder ELO can like,directly correlate to how much
time you spend on the ladder,right?
Abaan (47:58):
Yeah.
Liam (47:59):
um, yeah, I think like,
you, if you're not like,
actually like, 24 7ing, it's um,your ladder ELO grows a lot more
when your deck is like,functioning and able to like,
win a lot of games from behind,um, and like, You know, better
able to deal with variants,right?
Abaan (48:17):
The other thing is I
would, like, I wish I could take
out is, like, when you, like,play against a Mirado, you're,
like, cooked, you're, like,like, a Mirado is, like, the
example off the top of my head,you're, like, super cooked, they
bench Mew, bench lockthemselves, and you just, like,
sit there with your Mimi Mist,and you're, like, I won this
game, but, I'm not sure if this
Liam (48:34):
Dude, that's actually,
like, never happened to me.
The more common mistake I've runinto when I, like, hit these
Dawn players is I, like, flipover the Mimikyu, and they're
like, um, and they just, like,instantly, like, stop going for,
like, anything except theZapdos, bro.
They're just like, boom, gen,gen, gen, Zapdos, Kaya, and then
I, like, shove the lax and Ijust, like, get to sit there.
Abaan (48:56):
I don't know, I think the
thing about using Orbs and stuff
is, maybe I'm just not highenough, bro, but that happens a
lot.
It happens way too often,actually.
Like, they see the Mimmy andthey Nest Ball for the Mew, and
then they fill their bench.
Or they leave a spot open andyou just, like, go, like, I'll
grab, like, Flute, uh,Sealstone, Flute, like, any
Pokemon that isn't Zapdos, then,like, Nest Ball for a V,
(49:16):
Sealstone for the Mist, and justpass.
And win the game.
Like, without doing anything.
Liam (49:21):
Yeah,
Abaan (49:23):
I mean, I'm not sure how
much we want to get into the
list, by the way.
But like, if you're trying tobuild a Pidgeot list, one flute
is the secret sauce, bro.
One flute is, like, the truth.
Liam (49:32):
Dude, the, yeah, that
thing actually has been going
crazy, bro.
I'm not gonna hold you like,
Abaan (49:36):
I'm not gonna put any
more than one, but one is
perfect.
Liam (49:39):
yeah bro and flute,
Pidget, Silene, Flute, like, you
just get the like, flute so off,Pow
Abaan (49:46):
I don't do that very
often.
I don't think I can't evenremember the last time I started
leading a flute.
That that's just, like,terrible.
Yeah, bro, I I just hit it thefirst time, bro.
Liam (49:55):
so aggressively recently,
I like, um,
Abaan (49:58):
What matchup?
Liam (49:59):
like, specifically versus
like Ancient Box Andrago,
Abaan (50:03):
Nah, bro, exactly.
Okay, I know exactly what youthink that.
I just hit it the first time.
I hit exactly what I'm lookingfor the first time.
I
Liam (50:12):
the first time, then I'm
like, ugh,
Abaan (50:14):
don't do all that.
I just don't do that.
I assume if I miss the firsttime, that means the Pokemon's
in their hand already, and like,especially Ancient Box, there's
nothing to do about it,
Liam (50:24):
you go, go and try and
root the Arrakis,
Abaan (50:25):
Yeah.
That's seemingly good enough.
Get it done.
Liam (50:31):
Yeah.
Dude, I don't know why, like,this is like multiple times this
has happened to me againstAncientBox, because AncientBox
all over the ladder.
Right?
Last few days though, I like, Iliterally like, turn three,
Erika's plus Flute.
I'm looking at your entire deckright now, bro.
No hits somehow, bro?
Like,
Abaan (50:49):
And they're just bored as
like, Moon Moon.
Liam (50:52):
yeah, yeah,
Abaan (50:53):
the weirdest thing is
like, sometimes you just If they
refuse to play, but they'retaking prizes, and then you just
like, hit them with an Ursaluna,and they're just like, oh man, I
probably shouldn't have goneinto range of Ursaluna so fast.
Oops.
I lose.
Liam (51:05):
exactly, right?
They're hitting for like 150.
They have like one moon down, noenergy on the bench, and Iona to
three, Blood Moon.
Abaan (51:11):
exactly.
dude, the amo And that's whatmakes me disrespect Bladder,
it's oh my god, yes, I won thisgame, but This was so useless,
like, I don't, I don't know,you're, but then I play out of
regional and I was like, ah, no,ladder is actually the useful
one.
The testing with my friends,like, the private testing was
like the one that wasunrealistic.
Liam (51:28):
Yeah, like, I, I, I think
like, it's because it's so hard
to recognize um,
Abaan (51:35):
They need that take
Liam (51:36):
what stuff's illegal,
like, or like,
Abaan (51:37):
need that take back.
Liam (51:39):
no, nobody ever wants to
go for the slow route in, in
person, right?
Like, going for the slow route,especially at like the start of
games, is like, terrifying,right?
Near the end of the game, wherelike, okay, like, I can only get
punished
Abaan (51:52):
the end.
Liam (51:53):
combo minimum, and they
have like five cards total left
in like their hand and deck,right?
Like, You know, I'll just callit right here.
Pass, bro.
You're a god, right?
But like, um, at the start ofthe game, going for like the
slow route, and like, not evenjust like the slow route, but
like, not even like where you'remaking like a patient call with
like, I'm gonna go like CandyPidge, Pidge Charmeleon, instead
(52:15):
of like Candy Zard and try andlike run you over for some
reason, right?
But like, actually going forlike something that's like
seriously slow, just so you likenever open yourself up to some
like random play, is like very,very difficult to do in person,
you know, or like in an event.
Abaan (52:29):
It's, because it's so
upsetting, the idea that you had
a hand that was fast enough.
But you, like, slowed it down atloss, but the opposite doesn't,
like, upset people for somereason.
Like, you just went really fastand your opponent, like, answers
you,
Liam (52:41):
And then they like, they
hit the punish, bro.
Well done.
You know,
Brent (52:44):
Yeah,
Abaan (52:45):
They love that.
Brent (52:46):
it's just so, going slow
is terrifying, right?
If you, if you lose to who youthink is objectively worse than
you, and you're I could havedone that, and then, and then I
didn't, it's just regret allday, right?
Abaan (52:57):
Yeah, I'm not a victim to
that.
I truly feel nothing.
I just make the good play and,like, if it's slow, is it fast?
Like, I don't find that, like,an issue.
And then if it doesn't work out,it doesn't work out.
I don't feel I feel like that'slike, it's a trap.
Like, I'm not even that crackedat the game or anything, but
like, I think that's a badplayer trap.
Like, to think, like, to feellike the mode of game, like,
(53:18):
makes you feel worse or better.
All
Brent (53:22):
guys, we've been going
for 55 minutes, and I got stuff
to do.
We got to call it the JohnPaul's Hour outro.
We'll be back next week withpeople's travel plans for
Baltimore,
Abaan (53:33):
right.
Riverside, it's so pretty.
Lookin here, we gotta get me tolife.
When you talk to me, I listen.
Stare straight ahead, trying topretend.
I got something to say, but I'mtellin you no lies.
(53:53):
My mind is just a little mellow.
I'm the beast and I'm waking youup, If I left three tips, you'd
tear three lips.
Now I'm drunk, naked, andhanging from a tree, Found it on
a chest, a carpet on the leaves,but, Where you wear your hats,
I'm charming, You can make yourname a star farmer, Put the
(54:16):
crocs in the ground, and put araisin up, Build a roof up
above, and put a raisin up,Yeah, I'm drunk.
I got two arms, wanna pick emup.
I got two legs, I'll teach emhow to jump.
I got two legs, I'll teach emhow to jump and I'm in the sun,
(54:41):
boy, let me start.
I'm in the sun, boy, let mestart.
It is what it is, it does whatit does.
Yeah, it's what it's got, wejust call it art.