Regidrago, Gardy, Pidgey, Worlds & More!

Not the best editing or audio, but another episode out the door!

Episode Transcript

Liam (00:04):
Welcome to the Trash Lounge podcast, uh, the only
podcast about the Pokemontrading card game.
Haven't said that in a while,but it's apparently true, um,
attendance is 100%, it's me,Habanave, and Camp Shinoi.

Cam (00:17):
Uh, yeah.

Abaan (00:25):
Let's get into it.
I mean, the world is actually alot closer than I thought, so I
guess we're gonna have to like,we should probably start talking
about some decks and testing.
I feel like we, uh, last coupleweeks we've just been talking
about Garde, there's a lot of, alot of fish in the sea, a lot of
interesting decks out there thatI, at least I've been playing
with, so.
Yeah, you should get into it.

Cam (00:45):
Yeah, I guess the number one thing

Liam (00:46):
is, um If you haven't heard already, uh, Drago's like
the number one deck, deck'samazing.
It's absolutely insane.
Um, yeah.

Cam (00:57):
It's just like everyone is messaging each other like,
Drago?
And they'll send you their list,and then it's like, Yeah, it's
like, yo, you're not thatsecret, like literally
everyone's doing it toeverybody.

Liam (01:08):
Yeah, um, yeah, the deck is really good.
It's got the, um, the onlyimportant part is you have to
Don't use the V Star until like,close to the end of the game, or
like, where you can set a gamekind of like, on board, right?
Um, if you pop the V Star onturn 2, you're making the deck,
uh, the deck bad, right?

(01:29):
Because then you're, if yourDrago dies, you lose.
Yeah, don't do that.
Which

Abaan (01:34):
is not, like, you sometimes do have to do that,
but like, the Okay, yeah.
Like, the threshold is way, wayhigher than people realize.
Like, it's like, if you can playthe game at all without using
it, you kind of just don't.

Cam (01:45):
Yeah, no, I I think Mhm.

Abaan (01:48):
Oh, just like the one thing about the Draugolists I
want to point out is like, dude,that, like, because everyone's
talking about it, some of thelists already are already super
exploitable, so like, I justthink it's interesting that
like, uh, like, there's a monthleft, and we're just gonna play
this constant game of like,Draugolists are like, like,
distributed, people are gonnaexploit the list that exists
now, then they're gonna putstuff like Raging Bolt, like,

(02:08):
back in, and you have to like,deal with this constant cycle,
and world there's notournaments, we're just like,
it's like a word of mouthconstant cycle of like,
switching texts.
Yes.

Liam (02:17):
Um, no, yeah, I was going to say, I think Part of what
makes the deck so scary is theaggression, and the option to go
aggressive.
Like, the times that you do popthe V Star, and these actually
happen a fair bit, but it shouldbe like, I'm gonna pop the V
Star and get any reasonable hit,I rip the Curem, and then you
lose the game.

(02:38):
Right?
Um, like, it should be, uh, itshouldn't just be like Drago
take a prize after you hit the VStar.
You know?
And then they like, return KOyou and you lose.
You should be doing, like, youknow, making, like, major board
damage.
Or, like, progressing super,super quickly after you hit the

(03:01):
V Star.
Um, if you hit it early.
I think

Abaan (03:05):
And I think the other sleepslept on part about that
deck is if you have even oneenergy on your Teal Mask, like,
the Teal Mask is such a solid,like, attacker when you Oh, it's
so good.
Yeah, you can't get a Dragoattack together.
You're like, Teal Mask for aprize.
You're like, against Zard it's,like, completely busted.
Like, Teal Mask, trade to Zardis so good.

Cam (03:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Liam (03:23):
Um, yeah, the Teal Mask is so good, bro.
It's,

Cam (03:26):
uh, yeah.

Abaan (03:29):
I can tell the difference between, like, dragos that are,
like, like, obviously somedragos hit the complete nuts on
me, and that's, like, that'sfine, but in general, like, the
ones that weave in a Teal Maskattack somewhere are the ones
that I struggle with the most,I'm like, oh.
Like, them not just passingunder the fact they can't cut
Drago is, like, is prettycrushing to me, like, this 180
that was not supposed to behere.

Liam (03:48):
Yeah, um, um.
I, I think because of the eswitches, it's also like a much
stronger threat than like theraging bolt, right?
Or like how Raging Bolt utilizesit.
Um, like they can, they can bumpthe damage and, and make it out
of nowhere, right?
Which is like, you know, youdon't always wanna be burning e
switches on the, on the tealmasks, right?

(04:09):
Those are probably your mostimportant resource, but, um, it,
it does help you set up like endof game checkmates where like,
you're like, dude, I have likeone E switch left, and even
though there's no energy inplay, I can just make an
attacker out of nowhere.
Um, yeah, I find that happens abit.

Abaan (04:26):
I'm convinced Penny is terrible.
I'm not playing Penny in Regino.
That much I know.
But I was wondering if like, isthere any world where I play
Thorin?
Because like, it is reallyannoying starting Kyurem, or if
you're playing Raging Bull.
Dude, I would just playCollapsed.
Really?
I love Pokestop.
I love Pokestop.

Liam (04:44):
Yeah, but I mean,

Abaan (04:46):
I don't

Liam (04:46):
want to play a supporter to do the thing.
I want to play a stadium, bro.

Abaan (04:50):
But Thorn does like real utility outside of just being

Liam (04:53):
It's the same with the penny, but I mean, they suck,
though.
Not real

Abaan (04:56):
utility.
No, no, penny's way worse.
Well,

Liam (04:58):
dude, penny's good into block.

Abaan (05:01):
Nah, bro, your deck is good into block.
You don't have to like playpenny to be good into block.

Liam (05:05):
I don't know, it's um, Cher.
It's like fine into block.

Abaan (05:11):
I don't know, the whole time I was playing that matchup,
I was thinking like, Dude, it'sfunny, Regidrago lost the
blockbox to the one game weplayed, but like, I was like,
the whole time, I was like, thisis so favorite, like, this is
like, fluke after the fluke ishappening to me.

Liam (05:24):
Yeah, you have a lot of resources, right?
But, I mean, I don't know, moreresources doesn't hurt.

Abaan (05:33):
Do you think, Regidrago, if you were to play this, like,
if you had to play worlds, like,in a very short time span, like,
the classic, like, if you had toplay worlds tomorrow, do you
think you need to play, like,Shred, or Radzard, or like, any
of those things, or are you justgonna rip it?
Cologne, uh, Cologne V Star.

Liam (05:47):
I don't know,

Cam (05:50):
um.
I think

Abaan (05:57):
Shred is the worst.
I think playing Kena isterrible.
I agree.

Liam (06:02):
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't do that.
Um, I guess I was gonna play a 11 Tino with the Psychic.

Abaan (06:10):
Yeah, that was the, that was the idea, but it's pretty
terrible, I think.

Cam (06:15):
Um, yeah, I think I'd just play the Radzard.
Um, no,

Liam (06:24):
I would actually, no, I'd go at it raw.
Yeah, I'd go at it raw.

Abaan (06:27):
Yeah, exactly.
I think the Radzard, it willbeat some of the lists I
projected were good with, like,Mimikyu's and Myst, but the
problem is that, like, There'scertain lists that will for sure
just beat you anyways with thefive energies, and then I think
starting it is too detrimentalin a lot of matchups, and it's
hard to use because the kind ofradzard decks I appreciate are
the ones where I'm able toradzard with a single prize

(06:49):
board, and Dragoco can never dothat because radzard's the only
single prize board in your wholedeck.
Like, there's just no way yourboard's gonna be single prize.
So, like, you Radzard at 2, it'shard to Radzard at 3, because,
like, you're low on E Switchesat that point.
Yeah, no, the Radzard's

Liam (07:01):
basically just a Blood Moon.
That's why it's, uh

Abaan (07:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Like, if it was, like, RadiantBlood Moon, people would play
that card instead.
It's just, like, I mean, myselfincluded, like, the obsession of
playing a Radiant Pokemon.
Radzard's not good.
It's, like, it's literally worsethan Blood Moon.

Liam (07:15):
Um, yeah, I agree.
I think it's also, I mean, Idon't know, getting the 250 is
pretty important for Drago,right, because Drago is of
course the consensus best pickfor Worlds right now, um, and,
which makes Radzard a lotbetter, right?

(07:35):
But,

Abaan (07:37):
it

Cam (07:37):
kinda sucks, man.

Abaan (07:38):
If Drago's the Drago's gonna be slotting Lugudra back
in?
I mean, Lugudra's most lit inDrago mirror.

Cam (07:47):
Yeah, that's what y'all said, bro.
I don't see it.
Really?
Alright, like, I kinda see it,but

Liam (07:58):
I feel like a good start is most lit in Dragomir.

Abaan (08:02):
Yeah, yeah, you think, I've actually came, like, okay,
like, exactly, like, most ofthese matchups, like, it's like
Gardymir, right?
It's like, oh, dude, my doublemonkey list is lit in Mir.
It's like, dude, If one guy justlike starts and like is playing
the game and the other guyisn't, it doesn't really matter
what cards are in the deck.

Liam (08:16):
Yeah, I know, bro.
The, the Guardi tech is not the,the second monkey.
It's the Hyper Aroma, bro.
Yes, yes.

Abaan (08:25):
Dude, I, like, the more I've played this deck, the more
extreme I get with it.
I'm like, at first, I was like,Damn, it's close.
It's pretty close.
Like, and then I was like, uh,Hype Aromas are correct, but,
like, I can respect inFairstamp, and I have gone,
like, full, full spectrum atthis point.
I'm like, dude, if you evensuggest on Fairstamp to me, it
means you've played, like, lessthan ten games of Guardi.

(08:45):
Like, must.
It's like a clear factor.
Like, you, uh, you can literallytell how much Guardi you've
played by how much you likeAroma.

Liam (08:52):
Yeah.
I think the problem is,

Abaan (08:58):
the problem is when you go second, you don't just like,
the argument doesn't always cometo your head.
Like, you will have to admitthat some games you're not going
to have the Evo, and then somegames you're just going to be
forced to go first.
And like, those are two, like,such L outcomes if you're
playing the fucking two Evo Lumilist.
It's just not going to work out.

Liam (09:16):
Yeah, I was talking with Henry yesterday, um, it's kind
of a trap, we would never dothis, of course, but the one
redeeming factor of the Arvenstamp list is the second Evo
bumps their odds of ripping offIono.
Like, I, dude, I swear, man,every time I play the, every

(09:37):
time I play Iono, I'm like, man,I wish I was playing second Evo.
But imagine

Abaan (09:42):
your Roma, like, exactly, imagine your Roma is second Evo.

Liam (09:48):
The Evo's better, bro, because we're talking about,
like, you basically go second inyour turn two.

Abaan (09:52):
No, no, no, that's not what I mean.
I'm just

Liam (09:54):
You go second in turn one.

Abaan (09:56):
Instead of, like, wishing you played second Evo, see if
you see the Aroma, and then ifyou see the Aroma, then you're
like, man, I wish this wassecond Evo.
You could just wish for secondEvo, and then, like

Liam (10:04):
Well, no, I'd play all three still.
I'd play all three.
Oh, okay, okay.
And I don't even know what thecard would be.
It's every card in my hand.
I'm always getting the secondEvo.
Well,

Abaan (10:15):
of course, yes.

Liam (10:16):
I mean, yeah, dude, it's a terrible feeling, bro! Every
time I play against the, theStamp, the Stampless, they like,
don't open Arven, and then theyrip the Iona, and I'm like, Ha!
Giga Punish, and then they justrip the Evo, and I'm like, damn,
bro.
She got it like that.

Abaan (10:30):
I would explain this to a lot of people, though, in that
matchup, like, if they're Evoing Berkelius, and I'm Aroma ing
them, then I'm so much deeper.
Yeah, you're a cycle ahead.
Like, no, I'm like two cyclesahead once I start Devo ing them
back, like, I like, Aroma,Mystics, Devo, and then they
like, do something.
They devo me and I just draw sixmore.
I've always had my two monkeysby the time we start hitting
each other.

(10:50):
And like, if you have twomonkeys and you start hitting
each other, like, uh, there's somany creative plays you can do.
Because like, the fact Dude,

Liam (10:57):
yeah, that's why we said the monkeys are more important.
Because the monkeys enable likeall

Cam (11:03):
your plays, right?
Like,

Abaan (11:04):
exactly.
Do you think you need Manaphy?
Like, I was like, I was watchingback Henry's match against Noah.
And I just think like, they bothwent for Manaphy so early.
And I was like, actually justconfused.
Like, it made sense from Henry'sperspective, because Noah didn't
even bench a monkey, so it'slike, the Manaphy, like,
checkmate to the fuck out ofhim.
But Noah did not need Manaphy,like.

(11:25):
Yeah,

Liam (11:26):
no, no, Henry, I think, I think Noah went for like a
really early screentail orsomething, and then Henry just
like insta benched Manaphy andlike trapped the screentail on
board, boom, he's cooking up.
Um,

Cam (11:39):
but, yeah.
I just wanna, yeah, like,listeners, I just wanna let you
guys know, this is actually alsohow it just happens in the
Discord, like, it's theRegidrago chat, and we're
talking about Regidrago, andthen Liam and Abahn just slide
in, talking about the Regidragomatchup against Gardevoir, And
then it's just talking aboutGardevoir.
So yes, once again, we're backhere.

(12:00):
It's just, do you see how, like,seamless and smooth that was?
Like, they've just gotten sogood at it.
They slide in there with theGardevoir talk, and now we're
just talking about Gardevoir,and or a Gardevoir.
And go like this.
I

Abaan (12:11):
think I can't even tell you.
Yeah.
Oh

Liam (12:15):
my god.

Abaan (12:15):
Oh yeah,

Liam (12:18):
we did a, we did a segway from Regidrago mirrortex and
talking about Gardevoirmirrortex.
Um,

Cam (12:27):
yeah.

Abaan (12:28):
You know what a matchup for the listeners is about?
Like, you know, I just wanna, Ijust wanna know, like, er, not
know, I want you guys to know,like, Stefan has been spreading
misinformation.
Like, you don't just, like, winthe Stonelax vs.
Gardevoir matchup because youhit, like, Exodia board.
You don't win at all.
Like, you can just play onehandheld fan, it's already
looking bad.
If they play two, like, pack itup.
Like, doesn't, this is like

Liam (12:48):
That matchup is, like, 95 5 for Gardevoir.
Like, You have to, like, moveheaven and earth in your
decklist to have, like, achance.
And, like, against Block Locks,every time every other deck
techs, they're like, Oh, I guessI just, like, 100 0 them now.
But, like, when Gardevoir techs,you're like, Damn, bro, I get
to, like, maybe 70 30 even whenyou tech, like, super hard, bro.

(13:10):
Like,

Abaan (13:11):
like, so cooked.
The one tech that no one knowsabout that, like, actually cooks
Block Locks?
Radiant Alkazam.
I'll say it, bro.
That, you do like 400 damageevery attack.
That card is broken.
That

Liam (13:23):
is, that's such cat, bro.
It gets block

Abaan (13:26):
blacks, you actually get the 400 in.
Like, it's, it's, it's so goodagainst block blacks.
If you want to be block blacksand guardi, play the Radiant
Alakazam.
And like, play like three of theability blockers, at least.
Maybe four, if you want to besafe.
And you'll get it.
Yeah, dude, I

Liam (13:39):
think with three ability blockers, you're okay.

Abaan (13:42):
Especially if one of them's clefki, because they
might cornerstone you.

Liam (13:45):
Dude, yeah, I mean, Alakazam is not, it's not that
good.
You get to maybe the like 70 30board, bro.

Cam (13:52):
Like,

Liam (13:53):
you're like, um, like the best thing it does is it lets
the boss take two prizes.
And like, I guess it lets youknock out on turn around, but
like,

Abaan (14:04):
it doesn't,

Liam (14:06):
yeah, no, those are big, but it's still, it's still
loseable, even with those,right?
Oh yeah,

Abaan (14:12):
you'll never get the matchup to be unlooseable, like
you can always prize too manythings, you can always get
fluted for too many things, andlike, a lot of terrible things
can always happen to you, thatmatchup is like so, it's always
hanging on a knife's edge.
Like

Liam (14:23):
yeah,

Abaan (14:23):
and the worst part is you can't even like find Alakazam
that easily so like there'soften like a time where your
board has like thatvulnerability and they could
just like Flue or Eric as like abunch of annoying things on the
bench while you're trying tofind Zam because I don't play
Nesball My main search is like 4Poffin, 3 Artisan and and like I
guess I have 2 Ultra Balls Solike I either raw draw Alakazam
or I have to just Ultra Ball forit.
I've been Ultra Balling for it.

Cam (14:44):
Yeah.
Yep Beep beep beep beep beep,yep.
Oh,

Abaan (14:48):
also the, like, the sauce, like, dude, I feel like,
I don't even mind, like, I wasthinking, like, this is gonna
be, like, my huge edge, but,like, I, I feel like I can just
tell people things, and, like,they still won't even, like,
implement it correctly.
Like, the sauce in Mirror is,after that war of, like, getting
the two monkeys out, you can,um, you can bench Alekhazam,
like, if they Guardian swing youor something, you can bench
Alekhazam.

(15:09):
And put 80 on a on the Guardi.

Cam (15:11):
Sure, and D.
Va.
Yeah.

Abaan (15:12):
Yeah.
And then you get a whole turnback, and then you have the two
monkeys out, so then you can, umThe next turn, you can like,
flutter, uh, and take twoprizes, and like, then you can
go to like, Basically, they takeone prize, and, and leave a
little bit of damage on theboard, and then all of a sudden,
you get the turn back, youflutter, you go two prizes
ahead, and you have two monkeys,and the two prizes ahead Yeah,

Liam (15:30):
no, of course, every time you pull out the D.
Va play, like, you should bewinning, unless you somehow fell
behind, like Massively at thestart, you know?
Like

Abaan (15:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And they can't really do itback, cause like, they have to
use an attack.
Like, as long as you clean thedamage off your Guardi, like,
That's why swinging with GuardiX is like, unless you have a
second one on the bench, it'spretty, uh, It's pretty bait.
Because when you go for that,you just, like, open yourself
up.
Yeah.
You have to, you can do it withsecond Guardi, though.
And then it's, like, pretty lit.

Liam (15:57):
Yeah, like, I mean, even then, it's sometimes, like, a
little bit sus.
Like Um, I don't rememberexactly, but like, yeah, like, I
guess you can get like, um, likeCC Flutter Devo'd or something,
right?
But, um

Abaan (16:13):
Yeah, some miserable things can happen.
Like, in that matchup, like, youalways have to be walking out
for like the CC Flutter stuff,which is why Teugarty feels
good.
Like, otherwise, like, you're sosusceptible to that randomly.

Cam (16:23):
Yeah.

Abaan (16:24):
Also, I cut the Cress, so you do get into spots, like, at
least, I've never actuallyplayed the matchup without
Cress, because, like, when I hadCress, sometimes I'd discard it
early, and I'd be like, well, Igot so punished, because now I'm
getting Iona to 1, and I haveno, like, artisan artisanable
threat that just wins the game.
And, like, Alexander's, like,kind of a reasonable proxy for
Cress, because you get to, like,reach a little bit, but, like,
it's not the same thing,obviously.

Cam (16:45):
Yeah.

Abaan (16:45):
Not the same.

Cam (16:48):
But

Abaan (16:49):
yeah, the main thing was like I really wanted to get that
handheld fan starlaxing off mychest bro like people, uh,
people just need to play thematchup like the funny thing is
all the blockplex players knowthat what I'm talking about is
true but it's like all theguardi players who like still
are coping like I'll just likecheckmate them.

Liam (17:02):
Yeah, no, it's because the guardi players they haven't
actually played it bro like theyI mean, it's because it's brutal
to play against.
Nobody likes playing againstBlackhawks like that.
It's so boring.
Oh my god.

Abaan (17:12):
Really?
I enjoyed it when I was playing,um, Alecki, Sandshrew.
It was pretty lit.

Liam (17:16):
Yeah, no, exactly.
When you're, sure.
No, like, when you're playingPidget, every matchup with
Pidget is so fun.
Like, Because, yeah, you havelike, you have this like,
inevitability, and you havelike, so many threats, you're
like, so fun, but

Abaan (17:30):
Except, like, the rundown matchups are like, their own
kind of fun, but they're, it'sso simple to be like, oh, it's
only fun when you win, but itkind of does feel like that,
like, when you're winning one ofthose rundown matchups, it's so,
like, you're just a step aheadof them, and you just like,
sweep it out, but I will saylike, the least fun ever is when
you're losing those, and you'relike, I just got my Pidget and
then it's like CC, blow it upwith like Varadon or Raging Bolt

(17:52):
or whatever and you just likefall apart.
That

Liam (17:55):
doesn't I don't know, like, yeah, I agree that's how
you lose but I think um, I don'tknow, I think it's always fun
because I um, I feel like Ialways have a clear plan of what
to do and like if I hit what Ineed I win and there's like,
that's like the most fun, funthing in Pokemon, I guess, or
like, it's like the happiest Iam in Pokemon, right?

(18:17):
Like, you have a clear line tovictory, and if you just rip
what you need, you win?
That's like, all I ever ask for.

Abaan (18:24):
Yeah, but most decks, they have like, real draw
engines.
Like, that's when it feels fun.
Like, when I was playing Mew, orlike, when I was playing, uh,
even like, Guardian, it's like,fun.
It's like, okay, like, I'mdrawing six cards, how am I
gonna make my six cards, like,the most likely to hit, like,
one of these two, and then I'llArven for the other one.
With Pidget, there's no, like,draw engine.
It's like, like, you hittingwhat you need is literally, do I
topdeck, like, one of the twocards, so that I can Pidget for
the other one?

Liam (18:45):
Yeah, no, you're not wrong, bro.
If you have the Pidget out, thedeck is working.
If you don't, it's like you'renot doing anything, right?
Yeah, exactly.

Abaan (18:52):
Oh, dude, when the Pidget dies, it's like, the most you
can hope for is like, I canprobably CC an attack with
something that was like, alreadyon the board.
That's like, yeah, that's like apretty good hand.

Liam (19:04):
Yeah, no, you get to play off like an Arven, like max,
right?

Abaan (19:09):
The whole time your Pidget dies, you're just
thinking about how you get thenext one out, because like,
you're not, yeah.
Yeah,

Liam (19:14):
no, exactly, bro.
Maybe I can buy like one instantcharge here and then if I get
like Candy Thornton off theinstant charge, I have my pitch
it up.
Like

Abaan (19:27):
I feel the most, bro.
I miss it though.
I, every time I, uh, play the, Iwant it back, but I, I don't
think it's worth the slotactually.
I assume, I

Liam (19:34):
assume you're playing the stretcher, right?
Yeah.
If you cut the Thornton.
Yeah.
I think those two, likerelatively the same thing

Abaan (19:41):
they do except like in the very niche sad.
Yeah, I know Ex

Liam (19:44):
except for Thornton.

Cam (19:45):
Yeah.
Except when Thornton goes crazy.
But.
Yeah.

Abaan (19:51):
Do you think, you know, I was thinking about like
disrespecting, like what I candisrespect when I, uh, like
build my Pidget list, right, andI've completely like gone too
far, I think, I like disrespectlike all the like bot decks,
like I, like my list right nowhas like no outs to like Raging
Bolt, Lugia, yeah.
Even Mirai don't suss, like

Liam (20:11):
Oh yeah, dude, I I am the same as you, my My out to Lugia
in Raging Bullets is the uh, Iplay the Blood Moon.
And I'm just like, I'm a

Abaan (20:21):
Yeah, that's like Kelsa,

Liam (20:22):
I know that too.
Fear of Horse and Will, bro, I'mjust gonna Yeah, just Blood Moon
and hope it gets there.
Yeah, I mean, the thing is,like, Raging Bull players,

Abaan (20:29):
all they have to do is like Stop and breathe.
Like if they, uh, yeah, I know,right?
If they just like, like arepanting and they just like run
over you, like, then you have achance.
'cause then you can hit themwith the iono boyfriend.
But if they just like, breathefor a sec, it's, it's not
looking good.
Not

Liam (20:43):
looking good.
Switch card.
I'll discard all the energy offmy bench.
Kale, your sn wax.
See what happens.

Abaan (20:49):
Yeah.
That's, that's the out.

Cam (20:51):
Yep.

Abaan (20:52):
I mean, I played miss for, I, I don't play miss for
sisters right now, but I guessthat's like a side out is like
you used.
Yeah.
No Chuck play.

Liam (21:01):
Yeah, that's, that's what I play.
Um, and,

Cam (21:03):
and so like, yeah, it is, uh, yeah, they, uh

Liam (21:11):
You can tell yourself that they can't just like sit there
forever, but the thing is theydon't have to sit there forever.
They're like, all right, dude,Asada, I have seven energy on
board, you can play sisters, andthen I'm gonna like take a
knockout every single turn forthe rest of the game, like, but,
you know, then I tell myselfI'll get there off like Snorlax,
Sisters, Blood Moon, right?

Abaan (21:30):
Yeah, and you won't bro, you just won't.
It's just like, if you get thematchup, it just doesn't work.
Yeah, I guess, I guess we havegotten a little sidetracked
again about Guardi.
I guess another big, big thing Iwanted to tell you guys for my
testing is that I think thisDusknoir is like, it's like,
pretty good in the Pidget, like,Charizard Dusknoir is like,
decent in like, Pidget typematchups, like Charizard Mirror

(21:52):
and stuff like that, but like, Ithink Dusknoir is like, kind of
fake.
Like, you're almost better offjust playing like, a really,
really straightforward list,like, from like, From EYC time,
honestly, with like, all youhave to do is add the
Fezendipity, and then just playlike whatever was already
popping.
Get the multiple turros, get theCollapse.

Liam (22:10):
Yeah, I agree.

Abaan (22:12):
Two Charmeleon.
I

Liam (22:14):
think, um, I think the Dusknere's good, but it is You
have to give up so much for it,and I don't think it's quite
that good, right?
Like, it is, you're gonna seeone of those pieces, like,
basically every single hand youdraw.
And, I don't think it's, it'sgood all the time when you do.

(22:34):
Like, like Like,

Abaan (22:36):
there's like, so many masters you're not even allowed
to play.
Like, I was like, too, um, toooptimistic when I first heard
about the card.
I was like, oh yeah, I'll justget Dusknoir against, like,
Duraludon.
For this, like, CPOW, and like,I'll Dusknoir a bib, and like,
CC the other one, like, no, bro,like, none of this is happening,
like, giving a prize is way toomuch, like, expense, you don't
have enough Pidget Searches to,like, get these other cards on
the side, like, it truly is onlyCrack and Pidget Mirror, and I

(22:59):
swear that Dusknoir, like, It,it never gets used, like, er,
not never, it gets used like 1in 15 games, and like, it's like
this, like, on the 14th game,you're like, Dang, I haven't
used it in like 15 games, like,I'm gonna cut this card.
And the 15th game rolls around,you use it to like, some like,
Reasonable effect, and you'relike, oh, it's worth the slot
again.
But lowkey, like, uh, I kindajust wanna play like, if I'm

(23:20):
gonna play Duskmoor, I kindajust wanna play a 1 1 line.
But it just feels stupid to playthe 1 1 line and not have a
Duskmoor.
Like, you may as well at thatpoint, right?
But like, that extra deck slotis like a relevant factor, like,
I kind of just want to not haveit.

Cam (23:35):
Yeah, um, I, I don't

Liam (23:38):
know, I think, I think if you're gonna play it without the
Duskner, like, yeah, um, thenit's not, it's not worth it at
all, because it doesn't

Abaan (23:47):
I know, but I think that, that I agree with you, and
that's why I've gone the nextstep of like, yeah, it is not
worth it at all.
I'm just cutting this wholeline, like, getting my thoughts
back.

Cam (23:56):
We're in the same boat.
But like,

Abaan (24:00):
I need to test if the mirror, if they get to like
Duskloft CC banned, are you justlike, cooked?
And I think the answer is no.
I think as long as you have bib,like, and you just like, you
just respawn with a single prizeboard at some point, like, I
don't think you're actuallylike, cooked at all.
I think you're totally fine.
Very playable.
Like, they gave you a prizecompensation, and like, you can
definitely get there.

Cam (24:20):
I agree.

Abaan (24:22):
I wonder, though, in that deck, like, Is that Darkness
package like ever worth it?
I'm like very interested in likethe Darkness 220 package.
But I just haven't, I just,dude, everyone says that though
and like no one's like puttogether a list.
Like I just want to know likewhat are we gonna do?
Like everyone's like oh that hasso much potential but like when

(24:45):
it comes down to it I'm onlyever going to test my like
towards art list right now.

Cam (24:49):
That doesn't even beat Snorlax right?
Like

Abaan (24:53):
Yeah, because the Mimikyu's, right?
The Mimikyu's still too much,right?
Yeah, oh my lord.
And the fighting guy, fightingOgrepon.

Cam (24:59):
Yeah, it's brutal.

Abaan (25:03):
I think that people just don't understand, like, I guess
the idea is that you canactually like, maybe you can
like, Radzard or Charmeleon orwhatever, and like, the reason
that Mimikyu actually puts on somuch pressure is because like,
You can't, like, just switchinto Zard when you go back to
Snorlax, but, like, if you'renever one shotting Snorlax, I
don't see how you, how you win.
But you have the poison tool,so, like, Lux can't Snorlax this

(25:24):
out of range, but, like, you cankill, like, Bravery, Charm, and
Vest.
It's, like, not the worst, but Ithink Cornerstone is, like, the
reason you lose, right?

Cam (25:31):
Yeah, I mean,

Liam (25:32):
I don't, I don't see any way to win there, yeah.
Are you

Abaan (25:35):
gonna play Cologne and Zard if you're playing it?

Cam (25:38):
Um, if I was playing it, it's not, it's, it's

Liam (25:44):
for Garde, Mimikyu, and Iron Thorns, bro.

Abaan (25:49):
Really?
You're not worried about BlockClacks?
I think it's partial, or do youthink you lose anyways?
Yeah, I think you

Cam (25:53):
lose anyways.

Abaan (25:55):
The Duskner line with the Cologne is getting, like, to
territories where you might win.
But, I agree.
Yes.
Like, I played it in my deck,with the Cologne, and I was
like, this is kind of coped.
I mean, the one thing is, you dohave the side out of, like, uh,
you have Bradzard.
Bradzard.
So if you can, like, power upyour Rad Zard in Cologne, like,
maybe that stops them from goingLone Wellspring and, like,

(26:17):
that's enough.
But yeah, I'm not a hugebeliever.
And the other side thing is youcan, um, you can use Charmander
or, yeah, you can just useCharmander to soften up the the
Wellspring if if it's LoneWellspring and there's no vest
and then hit it with the theRare Candy Zard.
And then if they have, like, oneof the health tools, like,
Bravery Charm or whatever, just,like, make sure you combo the

(26:37):
Jammy Tower.
I think it's, like You do havewinning chances with Cologne,
and it's like enough to notscoop, but I think like yeah, if
you're not playing Dusknoir,maybe just cut the Cologne, and
save the spot, and just lose.
Just scoop it up when you seethe fighting guy.
Yeah.
Does that bother you though?
Like, the idea that if you wouldplay this deck at Worlds, like,
you would lose to one card, likeone specific card, and you

(27:00):
literally just pack it up?
I

Cam (27:04):
mean, I think, I don't think the Cornerstone's that
good Without everything else,

Liam (27:09):
right?
Like

Abaan (27:12):
Like, it definitely invests in Block Lax, that's
already enough.
Like, they have Sylene, like,Yelch here.
Yeah, no,

Liam (27:17):
no, yeah, in Block Lax, it's obviously enough.
But, like, I was wondering, Iguess, if you meant that as,
like, you know, if they throw aCornerstone and Raging Bolt, you
lose.

Abaan (27:24):
No, no, no, I just meant it as, like, I don't like that
Block Lax, like, play a cardthat they're for sure playing,
and, like,

Liam (27:30):
Yeah, no, yeah, I think if you, if you're playing Zara,
you're just accepting thatyou're going to lose to Black
Ox, right?

Abaan (27:37):
I don't think you have to.
I mean, there's definitely ways,like, with um, with Alekki, or
you're Yeah, sure, you can

Liam (27:42):
play Alekki in

Cam (27:42):
beta.

Abaan (27:45):
I can't remember the conclusion.
Can you, do you win as Alekki ifyou're not playing Sandshrew?

Cam (27:50):
Um

Abaan (27:53):
Like, they Zerosik press your hand, they can like Yeah,

Liam (27:56):
I think that Zerosik is actually a little bit too much.

Abaan (27:58):
Yeah, I agree.
I think you need to playSandshrew and Alekki to win, for
sure.
Or you need to play Sandsh er,Sandshrew.
I was playing Alecki and myDuskgnore list.
That was working.
That was cooking block lacks.
Because you can, like, superoddand you can, like, get them to,
like, one prize.
And, uh, that's just, like, sogood.
You get them to one prize, andthen if they go lone
cornerstone, you can probablydeck them out.

(28:18):
And if they don't, you can, uh,you're just one shotting
everything in their deck, right?
And you're rather than hackingfor one fire, which is, uh, the
best part.
It's like the Tord thing wherehe said to play fortress, but
with extra steps with thesuperodds superodds.
Same concept

Cam (28:34):
though.
Do you think, um,

Abaan (28:39):
that Zard list though, with Duskdorm, is there like, is
there a matchup I'm not thinkingabout that Duskdorm's crazy in?
Like, what is, like, what arethe slept on matchups?
Like, obviously it's good inMirror, and like, other Pidgey
type decks, but like, what is itlike, what are like, some
sleeper applications of it?

Cam (28:54):
Probably, um, probably, like, it's probably good against
anything that's big, right?

Liam (29:03):
So it's probably, it's probably fine against Drago,
like.

Abaan (29:08):
Yeah, yeah, the Dusk Glops is like fine against
Drago, sure.
Because, like, it's the samepigeon math, like, hitting the
CC.
Yeah.
But I think that list is It'slike, it's like very rare,

Liam (29:16):
right?
Because you have to hit it,like, turn one, they can't have
taken a prize, like, you know,it's, you know, very rare, but

Abaan (29:23):
Like, it's very hard for you to not just give up another
prize somewhere randomly via theDragapult pressure, and then,
like, It's already scary, like,oh, I gave them a prize, they
took a free one with Dragapult,then they, like, Teal Mask
Azard, like, You're getting toterritories where you can't even
use the Razard one prize boardto, like, bring it back.
You're just gonna lose.

Cam (29:39):
Yeah.
I think actually the Radzard

Liam (29:44):
one price board is no longer a thing in Zard, uh, even
with the bib, I think it's notworth chasing at all.
You should just be trying toRadzard on four and prevent the
double gust.
Um, because In

Abaan (29:55):
one matchup?
Because I agree with you, but,like, it sometimes just doesn't
work.
I guess

Liam (29:59):
against Raging Bolt and, like, Dragapult.
Um, you know, thosespecifically.

Abaan (30:05):
I don't, I don't know,

Liam (30:06):
like, it happens in some percentage of the games, but
It's, it's so much harder, like,I feel like the ideal position
that you went to this, like, oneprice board was against, like,
the Mirror, right, and it was,like, 20 percent of matchups,
right?
Um, because that's, that's agame where you have, like, 8

(30:26):
turns to set it up, but againstRaging Bull, like, you have to,
like, Turo your two prizer on,like, turn 4, and hit Radzard
Energy, like, it feels like alot, and, like, have the bib
ready so you don't lose to Iona,like, And you have to, like,
consistently be streaming, like,Charmander's and Radzard, like
It is, it is a ton of pieces tomake happen, like, very quickly.

(30:48):
You don't have, like, the sameamount of time that you do to
set it up.
And it's a, it's a large comboto set up, so it's, it's very
hard to do.
I find it a lot easier to, like,or like, much more often, I'm,
I'm trying to push the Radzarton, on 4.
Because that's, like, yeah, Imean, that's just, like, the
easiest way to set it up, Iguess.

Abaan (31:06):
Yeah, I mean, I have, I used Radzart on 4 quite often.
It's just, like, I think withthe Collapse, you have the high
roll potential of, like, Like,yes, you, it's not always gonna
work out, but, like.
The fact that you have a way tonot, like, not use a supporter,
and then you also play stamp,like, I do just find myself,
like, on certain turns, like,digging so many cards.
Like, I'll stamp Iona, and,like, I just find the collapse
naturally, and, like, Yeah,after I see, like, ten cards, I

(31:29):
find the collapse, and then I'malready in the position that I
want to be in, right?
And, or often it'll be, like,Zard, Pidget, and then I just,
like, I collapse away the Rotom,and then it's, like, once one of
these two things die, I'll justterra the other one, and I'm
already there.
I'm at my two prize board.
Noise

Liam (31:43):
back.
Uh, we talked about Zard forlike, I don't know, maybe 10
minutes?
I don't know.
Um.

Cam (31:57):
Uh,

Liam (31:57):
Raging Bolt.
Yeah, I think Raging Bolt's theother one.
Um, I guess that's a good pointto talk about.
Uh, Tablemon's, like, top sixdecks or whatever.
We've hit on Gardi, Regidrago,Zard.

Cam (32:11):
A little bit of Blockbox.

Liam (32:13):
Yeah, a little bit of Blockbox, but the other ones
that Tablemon had were Ragingbolt and drag, raging bolt drag
apol.
Um, yeah, I,

Abaan (32:24):
dude, draga bolt is terrible.
If you're gonna play drag apolin your deck, it, there should
be a red drago in your deck.
That's, that's my stance.
Like you drag apol on turn two,like a hundred percent, like two
times as often.
with fucking Drago than you dowith Dragapult.
It's just impossible.
Like, oh, I'm gonna hit my Neoup, like, Pidgeot into Drago,
er, not Drago, Dragapult, Neo upenergy, like, that is not

(32:46):
happening more than like oneevery, like, three games, maybe
four, one every four games.
Like, at least Regirago, like,gets it done.
Like, turn two Phantom Dive,that's where the power of
Phantom Dive comes from, whereyou can, like, kill the Pidgey
or whatever before it's had achance to evolve.
Like, too late.

Liam (33:02):
Um, I, I don't completely agree.
I think I think there's a lot tobe said for, like, the endgame
power of, of Dragobolt.
I think it's a lot stronger.
It's, like, much moresustainable, um, and it's, like,
the active's a little bigger.
I think, I think the benchliabilities are, like, you know,
there's pros and cons.
They're not two prizers, butthey're, they're really soft,

(33:23):
which means they, like, die to,like, monkeys and stuff, right?
But I think it's like, it's likesomewhat legit.
I don't, I would definitely notput it in the same tier as, you
know, the other four decks likeDrago, Boltz, Zard, Gardi, but I

(33:43):
think it's, you know, there's,there's arguments for it.
I don't think it's like justworse Drago.
I think it's, you know, it's its

Abaan (33:51):
own deck.
I think especially with theZard, it's, um, it is actually
one of the better versions ofZard.
It's like a better version ofZard than Dusknoir, for sure.
Like, I mean, maybe I'm justcoming off as a Dusknoir hater,
but like, it's valid.
I think Dusknoir is like, themost over talked about card, and
I was like, on board with thisuntil I played the deck a lot
myself, and I was like, this is,uh, this is not, this is not

(34:12):
what everyone is telling meabout, you know?
Like, it's not that good.

Cam (34:17):
Genoi, do you like Dusknoir and Zard?
Um, I mean, I just think there'slike 80 to 100 cards you could
probably put in Zard and theyall feel kind of good depending
on the situation you're in.
Um, it's just like, whatsituation do you think you're
gonna see the most?
Um, if you run down, like, thematchups, like, I think against

(34:39):
Raging Bolt, it's pretty dead.
Um, I think it's like,potentially okay against
Regidrago, because it like,allows you to hit that higher
damage earlier, if you highroll.
Um, but if you go second, it'sprobably just gets picked off by
Polt, but I think you probablyjust lose against Regidrago if

(35:00):
you go second most of the timeanyways.
Um, it feels overkill againstGardevoir, like you just don't
really need it.
Like, all the time, but, um, youknow, Double Devo is annoying,
so maybe you do want the extraspeed, and I think you need it

(35:21):
in Mirror, so it just might beone of those things where you
might just have to play it, um,depending on what decks you're
gonna see, because that's quitea few decks where it's like,
decent to solid, right?
Yeah, yeah, right?
Like, that's 50 percent of themeta, like, you're just gonna
take a worse matchup.
Against 50 percent meta, unlessyou think the other two decks

(35:42):
are gonna be the ones that youface a lot, right?
Like, if you think you're gonnaface a lot of Bolt and
Gardevoir, maybe you don't playit, right?

Liam (35:48):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think, I guess what I wasgetting at earlier was that you
give up, you give up a lot,right, like, it is, it is
impacting, like, you know, a lotof games, but, you know, five
cards, I think, like, no matterwhere you put them, also impact
a lot of games, right?
Like, there are four cards,however many you're committing
to this dust canary.
Um,

Cam (36:09):
and so, Yeah, like,

Liam (36:13):
it's helpful for sure, but, yeah, I mean, like you
said, I think there's, there's aton of other cards that you
could play that are also, like,reasonable good cards.
Like,

Abaan (36:21):
once someone, like, takes the, like, the veil off, like,
you have to play this line, youjust remember, like, wait, Xard
has so many spots, like, I'llput my second Tarot back in, my
second Charmeleon back in, like,let's get the Biblide going,
like, you got, you have so muchworld, like, so much, so much
more, like, world to operate if,like, You just get to like,
someone just tells you like, heyman, this Dusk of Real Life's

(36:42):
not good.
Like, I feel like that all thetime with a lot of my decks, but
it's like, if someone just like,like when you play Guardi,
right, you're like, oh dude,someone just told you like, take
out the Drifloon Charm, andyou're like, oh wow, now I have
Third Dark, Second Monkey, like,does it like, not to get back on
Guardi, the point is just like,there's so, like, once someone
tells you that a car, like a carthat everyone's playing is like,
not good, it like, frees up somuch, like, creativity again.

(37:03):
Like, you do so much, so manycool things that you like,
didn't even know was possible,because like.
I've

Liam (37:09):
said it before, but that's the um, that's something I'll
always glaze, is like, not, notjust identifying what the good
cards are, because I feel likethat's like, an easier thing to
do, but identifying what you canget away without, right?
Like, finding good cuts is, Ithink, like, one of the most
important skills, um, inPokemon.
It's the hardest, hardest thingto do.

Abaan (37:29):
The one thing I feel really, like, sure about myself
is like, I swear I can get therewith like, the least amount of
cards.
Like, I think that that's like,it's so, they're so obvious to
me that some cards are justdoing like, they're making it
seem like I'm like, smashingthem harder, but like, I like
winning like, the most nailbiter games because I've cut all
the good cards, and like, I havelike, exactly enough stuff to

(37:51):
win.

Liam (37:51):
Just what you need, right?
Like, just what you need.
I, yeah, I'll leave it there.
Um, but, HenryTad is an amazingjob at this.

Abaan (38:01):
Oh, yes, yes, of course.

Cam (38:04):
And I think it's just general deck building, right?
Like, you just, I don't know,you just get, you get attached,
you get attached, and you getattached to certain cards
because you like using them, oryou're just like, oh, I use it a
lot in this situation.
You don't see how much you canchange, or how easy it could be
to change just by adding a fewother cards in that are also

(38:26):
just better in other matchups.

Abaan (38:28):
It's like the Chinchino thing, right, in Lugia?
I think Chinchino may be correctagain, but like, the point is
when Chinchino was not correct.
It was like, everyone who like,the argument was always like,
well, I used to like, everygame, like, I'm always like,
using one shot, and like, peoplecouldn't visualize, like, but
what if you just had to usehands in Lugia, and you just had
to like, be more creative, like,could you still get there, and
like, the answer's like, was,was yes, because Zard was like,

(38:49):
pretty on the, on the decline.
Maybe now, like, if we want totalk about that a bit, like,
Tenchino, I think, may have tocome back in like, thicker
lines, because it's toodifficult to play the deck
without it.

Liam (39:01):
Right.
Yeah, I just like, you know, youthink about your matchups
without the Chinchino, and like,there's, there's some bigger
stuff in the meta now, right?
Like, it's not, it's not just a,you know, Iron Hands turbo farm.
And so yeah, I think, I thinkyou have to play the Chinchino,
but Chinchino is, ah, no good.

(39:23):
It's

Abaan (39:23):
funny,

Cam (39:24):
like,

Abaan (39:25):
like, I think that Lugia has gone full cycle, where it
was like, there was a smallperiod in the middle where we
were playing Chomansky's list,and it's like, wow, Lugia can be
a consistent deck, like.
This is, this is great.
And now, like, it went, like, itstarted with, like, it just has
to be a 3 3 Chachito high roll,and, like, you just draw what
you draw, and, like, you hope todraw up for good cards, but,
like, now we're back there.

(39:46):
We've literally come full circleto, like, Lugia just needs to
high roll people, and, like, youneed to play the least
consistent list ever, but itneeds to be, like, max power,
and, like, you're gonna winworlds by just, like, drawing
hot ten rounds in a row.

Cam (39:57):
Yeah.

Abaan (40:05):
The thing I'm gonna say is, like, Lugia, like, Lugia was
over teched for at NAIC, like,people were playing Sinnoh and
Ehammer.
Like, Lugia got, like, the bruntof hate for, like, no reason.
That will not happen at Worlds.
So, Worlds, at least you'll havea fair chance against some of
these decks.

Liam (40:20):
Is that what

Cam (40:22):
you're gonna say?
Is there, um, so I know this islike the six decks that I, you
know, that I think most peoplewould agree on.
I think our group is like, mostiffy on Lugia just because we're
just iffy on Lugia in general asa deck.
Like, always we don't like it.
But we also just know that it'skind of right there.

(40:43):
In terms of like, maybe anotherdeck is right there, and I'm not
sure we're giving enoughcredence to, is potentially
Maridon.
Um Because it, I mean, I knowyou can say it's shaky, but
like, if you look at Lugia, or,like, something like that, I
think it also has a very shakymatchup.
If you're considering it, like,your Lugia is pretty good.

(41:06):
Um, I would say you might, itmight be the best deck against
Gardevoir.
Like, there's just so many decksthat struggle against Gardevoir,
unless they're Drago popping offon you.
Um, I don't think the RagingBolt matchup is the best.
Too bad, especially if they'relike, playing no Charms, and
like, less of that kind ofstuff, which our list currently

(41:26):
has, and then I tested againstJordan, um, and he just like,
beats me because he hits hisGusts, and he just gets the
first knockout, and you're like,oh, like, it's just a race
anyways, like, you just see who,and that's, um, and then it's
like, like, the Drago matchup isprobably not good, but hey, if
they just start Drago, that'sall they have, and you clap it

(41:47):
with them right on, like, Youmight be able to cheese in there
too, right?

Liam (41:50):
I've heard that the Drago matchup is actually good, cause
you just like, you just farmTeomask every turn.

Cam (41:56):
Oh yeah, that could be, and then you just have, yeah, that's
true.

Liam (41:58):
Yeah, I think that deck is actually, actually pretty good.
That's a good point.

Abaan (42:02):
The Zard matchup is like, unfixable.

Cam (42:05):
Sure, like, yeah, every deck has a bad matchup, but I
also think, like, if people areplaying Dusknoir and this other
stuff, there were points in theseason before where I thought it
was close if you, especially ifyou put something like a Tomb in
your deck, or, um, you know,like, any other kind of tech,
and they're just, like, alsoinconsistent because they have
other stuff, like, maybe you canjust tease them enough times

(42:27):
where you're like, eh, like,I'll just take that kind of,
like, unfavored matchup andmaybe I get them.

Liam (42:32):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, I think that was
back when we had Flaaffy, like,because I had the same feeling
that you did, that like, youknow, you could actually get
there with Miraidon, at leastwith the current Miraidon, like,
you know, if you go like doublegen hands turn one and then it
dies, you're never hittingRaishu for the rest of the game,
right?
Which is like A lot worse.

Cam (42:52):
Yeah, it's probably just like predicated off of like a
bravery charm and, and like justactually getting them because
they're deck, deck folds withinthe first two turns.
Like if they get going you lose,but Spiritomb's also just, I
don't know if you're trying tobeat Blockbox or whatever else,
like it might be good in othersituations, or you can deem it
good enough.
So I don't know, I think it'sclose.

Liam (43:13):
Yeah, and I think losing to Zard is not the worst thing
in the world.
Like I think, I think Zardshould probably drop off in play
rate a little bit from likewhere it, at least where it was
like.
When the people, like, comingout of NAIC, where they're like,
oh, like, Zard's, like, so muchbetter because of Duskner, it's
gonna be, like, the clear BDIFor whatever, like, I don't think
it actually is, like, thatgoing, going into worlds, um, if

(43:33):
not right now, in, like, a fewweeks.
And so I think losing to Zard isnot, like, the, the craziest
thing in the world.
That's, like, something youshould be, like, confident

Abaan (43:40):
about.
There's like a triangle, butit's like, it's the worst
triangle ever because Dragosomehow kind of beats both
decks.
Like, to me, like, like Drago,Gardi, and Zard, like, every
matchup of that, like, Trinityis, like, so hard to explain.
Like, I, I, dude, to this day,people don't know who beats, who
wins, Gard Zard versus Gardi,like, and then, like, Drago,

(44:01):
like, kind of beats Gardi, and,like, Drago definitely beats
Zard, like, I don't know, like,I can't even think of a good
reason not to play Drago, butthe problem is it's, like, too
known, too soon.
Like, I think that like DraugrEven though it's a box deck,
there's only so many dragonattackers in the game,

Cam (44:16):
like Yeah, no.
Yeah, it's just like, arguingbetween the Noibern and, like,
the Goudra, you know, it'slimited its capability to adapt.
Exactly, like People know it waytoo early in the cycle.
Yeah, people would know about itway too early in the cycle, and
this is, like, why Like, RagingBold is just, even though it's

(44:37):
like a, just go hard deck, andyou're just sequencing, like,
that's why it's good, right?
Like, you can maybe copeyourself into convincing that
it's like 50 50 against ZardingGardi, and then you just
flatline Regidrago, and you'relike, that seems pretty good.

Liam (44:50):
Yeah, I think, um, my, my input on this, you know, this
Trinity stuff between Drago,Zard, Gardi is, I think I'd
rather be the Guardi player inall of those matchups.

Abaan (45:02):
I agree.

Liam (45:02):
I agree, but that

Abaan (45:03):
doesn't actually, like, that doesn't, that doesn't mean
that the Draugr vs Guardimatchups are the same.
Yeah, no, the matchups are stillreally close.
It's like, hmm.
The Zard when I, the Zard when Ilead more towards, like, the
Guardi being completelyfavorite, assuming there's,
like, one Charmeleon or, like,Yeah, if the Zard is playing any
of these, yeah, I think

Liam (45:18):
Zard, or Garde should be really good in the Zard.

Abaan (45:24):
I feel like Garde does have that like, control type
aspect in that matchup whereit's like, dude, you have so
many like, issues, like Devo,Monkey, like, Monkey Confusion,
like, the damage is everywhere,like, what the hell am I gonna
do?

Liam (45:37):
Yeah, I played the matchup with Henry, um, I played a few
games last night, and we wereplaying on TCG Live, so it tells
you how much damage, like, eachplayer did, like, every time,
right?
And like, I'd be like, losing,except I'd have done like, 11,
uh, 1100 damage, and he did like200, bro.
Cause I don't think it actuallycounts monkey damage, so.

(45:59):
Oh, oh, I see.
Um, yeah, and like, yeah, andthen I lose, it's, yeah, and
that's um, that's of course veryreminiscent of like, you know,
the, the screens that Controlhas after, into, uh, into Zard,
right?
Yeah,

Abaan (46:13):
they like hit your, um, they hit your lucky for 180
every single turn, but uh, yourpenny.
Yeah,

Liam (46:19):
yeah,

Cam (46:19):
exactly, right?
Yeah,

Liam (46:24):
like they attack like 10 times,

Cam (46:26):
usually, so, even a little less.
You know what part

Abaan (46:29):
I thought would be better than it is?
It's still good in Zard, butlike, Fezendipity has been It's
been great in Zard, but Ithought it was going to be in
every single deck I play, butlike, I guess I'm not giving it
enough chances, I'm not playingenough of the other stuff, but
like, I don't think it's worthits spot in Drago, for example,
like, I wouldn't be playingPhasidippi in Drago, I think
it's like, kind of mid in RagingBolt too, it's playable in

(46:51):
Raging Bolt, but the bench spaceis like, a pretty huge
commitment, especially if youhad to squawk that game, and
like, then you can't Mew, Idon't know, I think like,
Phasidippi is a good card, butit's like a Zard card.

Liam (47:04):
Yeah, it's definitely amazing in Zarya.
It's like, I think it's amazingwith Pidget engine in general,
right?
It's like, it's a bib that you,you can get off Nessball, so you
can play high Nessball countswith the Pidget and get like
access to the bib while playingfor Rotom turn one, which is
just like amazing, right?
Um, but yeah, and every, andeverything else, like you feel

(47:26):
the bench space a little bitmore.
Um, but I, I still think it's agood card.
Not like great, like sameopinion I've always had on it.
It's, Like, fine.
Um.

Abaan (47:37):
I think I went too far the other way when I first saw
the card.
I thought it was, like,completely format shaking,
busted, like, everyone's playingthis card.
And, uh, I now realize, like,it's, it's like any other card.
It's, it has its spots incertain decks, but, uh, it's
not, it's not Tapu Lele GX, youknow?
That's, like, I was, I was kindagoing crazy.
I was like, it has, like, a Ausable attack like Tapu Lele,

(47:57):
it's like very searchable andlike very consistent like I was
like oh dude we're all gonnaplay this card.
Tori's gonna play two I bet, butthat was wrong.
The

Cam (48:06):
style of deck I think it would be good in, but I actually
don't know if this deck is good,but it did get first and second
at a recent challenge of ours,is uh Turbo Dark.
Not just because it's dark type,but it's just like the style
deck.
Not because of that, but it'sjust like the style deck that
was, would want the the drawthree.
Right.
And can probably afford thebench space because you're just

(48:28):
like trying to saada slash darkpatch onto like two Pokemon that
U Yeah, I agree.

Abaan (48:36):
I, I think it ity was like a ancient or something.
If I could saada to it, thatwould make it so good.
And raging bull, it'd be worth.

Liam (48:43):
Yeah, yeah, I think the, the aggro decks right now are
all playing the Ogre Pawn,right?
But like, aggro decks that havea lot of bench space, very good,
right?

Cam (48:53):
And that's what it was good in, like, decks before, decks
like, like Orocorio is good in,I think, Blowns.
I think it's a similar deckwhere you're just trying to,
like, hit Welder.

Abaan (49:03):
I think, uh, Klefki is gonna be, like, the MVP of this
world.
It's like, Playing, like, theamount of free wins I get if I
play a Klefki deck, it's gonnabe so high, like, Oh, like, your
deck just fizzled because youhave, like, Vessel for two grass
to draw two cards with theAerial Teal Mask, but I just
have Klefki active, like, Like,the format is so predicated on,
like, using basic abilities,like, Even, like, Pidget or Zard

(49:25):
or all these decks, like, theonly deck that's immune to not
getting Klefki'd is, like, thedeck that plays Klefki, like,
Garde, right?
Like, Zard even, like, I've seenso many Zards just completely
break because they I startedKlefki, like, It's to the point
where right now, I'm playing twoKlefki just to like, increase my
chance of raw starting it to25%.
It's like, such a terrible card,but it like, helps your block

(49:45):
max matchup, and it just like,you start it like, a quarter of
your games, and it's like, if Icould play like, a dead slot in
Guardi of all things, just win aquarter of games, it's worth it,
cause like, Guardi already like,it just thins like, all these
like, random techs you playanyways, like, what's the
difference between playingsecond Klefki and playing E
Hammer?
They like, help in the samepercentage of games, if not
Klefki more.

Liam (50:06):
I, uh, I feel the same.
Um, I feel it in Guardi too,bro, cause I'm a ninja believer.
There

Cam (50:15):
is some anti synergy there, you know?

Abaan (50:20):
I think, uh, the problem with Ninja is like, if there was
a way to get Ninja out cleanlywithout playing Nest Ball, I
would be all for it.
But it's a rule it's a ruleboxbutterfly.
My three Artisans don't get it,my four Poffins don't get it.
Like, Ninja was, like, the mostbattle VIP card ever, but like
We don't got that anymore.
So, I don't know, I think it'skind of, you want to play a more

(50:42):
techy, radiant Pokemon becauseyou only really consistently can
find it mid game.

Cam (50:47):
Bro.
The thing about The thing aboutThe thing about Gardia, that's
pretty interesting and I don'tknow, like I'm the one now going
to Art of Gardia but the thingthat's really interesting about
Gardia is I think it's like notI don't know if it'll end up
being the best deck for Worldsbut it feels like that and Drago

(51:09):
are like the most, like They're,like, warping the meta, right?
Like, you need to play, like, Ifeel, and maybe it's just
because I play against it somuch, but it's just, like,
goddamn, like, this Klefki shutsoff so much stuff, and, like,
and I'm going to a cup, today,with a bond, and I know what
he's playing, and I'm just like,fuck, I, like, it limits my
options, like, I don't want toplay a deck that loses to
Klefki, now that, like, I'mlike, okay, I can't play that, I

(51:30):
can't play that, I can't playthat, and you're just like, oh
my god, like, this card is sogood.
In so many matchups.
Um, and then the Fluttermane.
And the Fluttermane is obviouslygood too, it's just like kind of
known at this point, but it'sstill like, ridiculously strong.
Yeah, hard deck to beat, right?

(51:53):
Hard deck to beat.
Same with Drago.

Liam (51:55):
Like, they're just strong decks.
Yeah.
Lots of threats.

Cam (52:00):
And like, against Drago, there's just so many games where
you're like, sitting there,like, holding onto your seat
while they use their V Star, andyou're like, Please don't hit
what you need, please don't hitwhat you need, or like, the game
is like, over on the spot.
win

Abaan (52:15):
so many times too, like, they like, it's clear to me and
them based on how they'replaying their turn, what they're
looking for, and they like, theysee so many cards, and they
like, completely audible, andit's like a very good line as
well.
It's, uh, a lot of options forthat V Star.
I think it's like one of thebetter V Stars in the game right
now.

Liam (52:31):
Yeah, dude, I mean, two from, two from discard

Cam (52:32):
is insane.
Um And I think that will be,like, the, the, the skill
defining part of that deck,right?
When you decide to use the PStar and what you use to grab.

Abaan (52:48):
Yeah, like, exactly, decks like that, the skill is
like, literally from a singleaspect of the gameplay, and
like, obviously, that, Drago VStar, like, we're saying it's
skill based, like, there's gonnabe games where it's not rocket
science, like, you just grab,like, the E Switch and the Prime
Catcher and you just do thething, right?
But it's like, knowing when youhave to make, like, a very
complicated play.
It's like, it's, it's thetoughest because you play like,

(53:10):
let's say you play 20 games, andlike 10 of them are super, super
standard issue, then like, justknowing, like, being able to
identify you're in like, one ofthe weird games in the first
place is like, already a verydifficult skill, because most
people actually like, they don'tdo it at all, and then they just
go way too far the other way,like, every game they're looking
for like, the crazy like,outplay like, dra like, dragon

(53:30):
pull, take no prizes, set up forlike, a six prize turn or some
nonsense with Kira, but like,Just, like, knowing when you
have to make a reallycomplicated, like, tough line
like that, in the midst of your,like, 20 bot games is, like, is
a pretty hard skill.
It's hard to master.

Cam (53:48):
Yeah, I think that's, uh, that's

Liam (53:49):
kind of what I meant with, like, the V Star.
Like, when you choose to use iton turn 2 or later, it's like,
Are you just going to run themdown, or like, do you actually
have to play for like, you know,trying to beat them on like the
prize race, and like setting upmultiple Dragos, like, you know,
um, actually,

Cam (54:12):
trying to like play like the entire game out.

Abaan (54:15):
I'm surprised they went to Tina V Star.
Like, I understand it, becauselike, I guess 280 is like the
number to hit, it kills Pidget,it kills, uh, Dragos, but like,
I actually really enjoyedplaying Raging Bull in the deck.
Especially with Superior andstuff, like, discarding Energies
is just way better thanLawsoning them.
Like, I was already discardingoff the active anyways, so I
don't really feel a differencebetween like, 2 and like, 4 to

(54:35):
5.
And like, the main issue I haveis like, I like my box decks to
have like, one shot potential.
Like, when I was playing LostBox without any kind of one
shot, like, without Roaring Moonand stuff, like, I don't know.
At least there, you can get itdone more with Sableye.
Like, here I guess you do haveDragapult to clean up kills, but
like, I don't like that I'mmaking this huge investment to
have this like, Dragapult, Ihave to play E Switches and like

(54:56):
do all this nonsense and like, Istill don't one shot like
everything because I don't playBolt.

Liam (55:01):
No, yeah, if there's like a turn that you're not, um,
you're not, uh, that like youhit with the Tina and you don't
take a KO, you just likeinstantly lose.
Um,

Abaan (55:13):
and so, yeah,

Liam (55:15):
yeah, you do hit with the drag on stuff, but like, yeah,
any time that you miss kind oflike, key KOs like that though,
you really feel it, right?
If they can slow you down alittle bit, like, the deck is
not very sustainable, that'sit's like, primary issue.
Um, so like, if they're able todrag the game out a little bit
because you missed an importantknockout, that's like, um, it
feels terrible, right?

Abaan (55:34):
Like, the only reason Guardi can, like, win is like, a
lot of times you use Guardi EX,like, Well, there's two outs.
Like, often, you use Monkey, andlike, they just don't have a
switch, and then they come downto some, like, some crazy flip,
and like, that's that's always,like, good for you, because even
if they flip heads, like, you'rejust not the worst situation.
They can't, like, they don'toften want to, like, boss and
Cologne under confusion.
Like, that's too scary.

(55:55):
Like, that's that's cr that'scrazy.
I

Liam (55:57):
I tip my cap to every Drago player who has the guts
for that, bro.
I, like because sometimessometimes it is the highest EV
play, and when you recognize itProps to you.

Abaan (56:08):
It's like, it's like the most disguised line.
Like, I just assume that if I'mconfused that they're going to
get rid of Confucian or my, uh,I'm not getting Kiremed, right?

Liam (56:15):
It's

Abaan (56:15):
like, you're right, like, actually.
No, yeah,

Liam (56:17):
because you just lose on the spot if you, if you flip
tails, but sometimes high CV,right?
But yeah.
Take that 50 50, right?
That's

Abaan (56:23):
your highest chance of winning.
And the other thing, though, Iwas going to say was, like,
Gardi, the other out is, like,just hitting with the Gardi and,
like, it's invincible, right?
Because they play, uh, Tina VStar and, like, you heal off the
Gardi with your monkeysbeforehand.
Like, If, if they had a cleanway of knocking out Guardi that
didn't involve Raging Bulldiscarding five energies, I
think they'd have like, theywould have no chance to lose the

(56:45):
Guardi.
Like now it's like still favoredfor them for sure, but like, the
reason I feel comfortable as theGuardi side is like I have so
much counter play.
Like you can't like, like Dragohas to pay so much to do all
their stuff.
Like cur is cutting all theirenergies, both is cutting all
their energies.
P two B Star doesn't even takeknockouts and lost those
energies like so much.
Counter play love counter play.

Liam (57:06):
Garde goes

Cam (57:07):
crazy, bro.
So much aura.

Abaan (57:09):
Garde goes crazy, bro.
It's the only deck I want totalk about.
Like, that deck is just sointeresting.
So hype.
Every moment of this podcast,I'm just looking for a way to
get Garde back in there, youknow?
It's a good deck.
Yeah.

Cam (57:26):
Okay.
Um Dude, I don't think You wantto switch them off?
Yeah, I think that's I was goingto say, I think that's really
all the decks.
I think We're all just trying toI think at this point you have
like, a couple weeks left topotentially find like, a deck
that isn't one of those six, butlike, it feels like two weeks

(57:47):
out you kind of just have tolock in one of those six if you
haven't found something at thatpoint.

Liam (57:53):
Because you're going to have

Cam (57:53):
to play games, right?
I think these are high, theseare high skill games, like,
you're going to have to practicea lot with other people who are
good.
Like, fully understand all thesematchups, because it is like six
good decks.
There's a lot of matchups on topof like, other ones you probably
want to know offhand.
What I'm feeling is too, islike, if you think that you
have, you found

Abaan (58:12):
something, like, outside of the six, and like, you're
playing against your locals,you're playing against like,
people who aren't that good, andthen you play against like, a
really cracked like, Zard,Guardi, like, even a really
cracked Blockfax, etc., like,and then you realize like, you
act, it doesn't actually work.
Like, whatever you had in there,it doesn't actually work.

Liam (58:28):
Yeah, I think if you're If you're trying to build something
last minute, too, that's whatleads to, like, sloppiness in
deck building, where, like, youknow, you just play cards that,
like, don't make sense, um, andnobody wins worlds with a sloppy
list, you know?
Like, you gotta show up withsomething that, like, you know,
you've really spent some time,and it should be evident that

(58:50):
you've put some time intorefining.
So, yeah, I would say youprobably have, like, till August
to find something off meta.

Abaan (58:59):
Because, like, the most egregious thing is, like When
someone has something on thelist, and when they explain it,
they have to say, like, in thelast iteration, I had XYZ, and,
like, then I just, like, didn'ttake it out, right?
Like, that, that's acceptablefor, like, a regional, maybe.
Maybe.
Even then, I, like, I wishpeople would value their
regionals more.
It's, like, acceptable for,like, a cup, to be honest, like.

Liam (59:18):
Yeah, I would never, never go into a regional like that,
but yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
No, yeah, exactly.
Like, that, the, when you sendit, and, and you haven't spent,
like, you haven't been able toput enough time into it, Um,
that, that's exactly how youget, yeah, like,

Abaan (59:37):
bad justifications

Liam (59:37):
for your decisions, right?
Just like, started there andnever, never took it out.

Abaan (59:41):
Yeah, I had like, Jirachi Manaphy in my deck at one point,
and then I had like, two orthree Poffin in my Pidgey list,
and then like, I cut thosecards, and Liam was like,
looking at me, he's like, bro,you have like, two Pidgey, and
like, two Poffin.
That's it.
Like, what the, what is going onhere?
And I'm like, oh yeah, you know,last list.
Forgot.
Tassig is for, right?
Like, there's, like, it's like,it's just, it's kind of
embarrassing.
Like, how do you, how do you,like, how do you not take that

(01:00:03):
out?
There, there's no

Cam (01:00:05):
synergy anymore.
Yeah.
All right, we've been going foran hour.
Um, good place to leave it.
John Paul's our outro.