September 25, 2025 • 33 mins
James is a former Army combat veteran who, after serving in combat environments, began his own journey to understanding and treating trauma.
Now a psychiatrist specializing in PTSD and trauma, James currently serves as the Director of Behavioral Health for ZEAM Health & Wellness.
In addition to his clinical work, he co-founded the nonprofit Inner Depths Freediving, where he serves as the Mental Health Program Director.
At Inner Depths, James supports trauma survivors in reconnecting with their bodies and regulating their nervous systems through the transformative power of water and breath, teaching freediving skills integrated with mental health support.
In This Episode
A giant thank you to our sponsors:
Jane App: A free data import? Now that’s what we’re talking about! 👏
Jane is a clinic management software and EMR that guarantees no surprises. When you sign up, you won’t have to pay for your data import or onboarding support, and there won’t be any set-up fees or contracts that tie you in.
See why Jane is the EMR that isn’t too good to be true at Jane App - Practice Management Software for Health & Wellness Practitioners and use code GUY1MO at check out.
Journey Clinical: At Journey Clinical, we partner with licensed mental health professionals across the U.S. to safely bring KAP into practice. Our collaborative care model provides prescribing, monitoring, and medical oversight, so you can stay fully focused on guiding your clients.
Visit join.journeyclinical.com/trauma to learn more and receive a month off your membership.
Academy of @therapywisdom:
Ready to revolutionize trauma therapy with Academy of Therapy Wisdom?!
In the Trauma Wisdom Circle: Monthly deep dives into trauma issues by world-renowned professionals. Regular self-care sessions tailored for you, including yoga, breath work, and meditation. Stay informed with the latest research and treatment techniques. Connect with fellow professionals and share insights.
The Trauma Therapist Podcast listeners can join for just $1.00! http://therapywisdom.com/circle
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.
You can learn more about what I do here:
The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSa
———
If you’d like to support The Trauma Therapist Podcast and the work I do you can do that here with a monthly donation of $5, $7, or $10: Donate to The Trauma Therapist Podcast.
Click here to join my email list and receive podcast updates and other news.
Now a psychiatrist specializing in PTSD and trauma, James currently serves as the Director of Behavioral Health for ZEAM Health & Wellness.
In addition to his clinical work, he co-founded the nonprofit Inner Depths Freediving, where he serves as the Mental Health Program Director.
At Inner Depths, James supports trauma survivors in reconnecting with their bodies and regulating their nervous systems through the transformative power of water and breath, teaching freediving skills integrated with mental health support.
In This Episode
A giant thank you to our sponsors:
Jane App: A free data import? Now that’s what we’re talking about! 👏
Jane is a clinic management software and EMR that guarantees no surprises. When you sign up, you won’t have to pay for your data import or onboarding support, and there won’t be any set-up fees or contracts that tie you in.
See why Jane is the EMR that isn’t too good to be true at Jane App - Practice Management Software for Health & Wellness Practitioners and use code GUY1MO at check out.
Journey Clinical: At Journey Clinical, we partner with licensed mental health professionals across the U.S. to safely bring KAP into practice. Our collaborative care model provides prescribing, monitoring, and medical oversight, so you can stay fully focused on guiding your clients.
Visit join.journeyclinical.com/trauma to learn more and receive a month off your membership.
Academy of @therapywisdom:
Ready to revolutionize trauma therapy with Academy of Therapy Wisdom?!
In the Trauma Wisdom Circle: Monthly deep dives into trauma issues by world-renowned professionals. Regular self-care sessions tailored for you, including yoga, breath work, and meditation. Stay informed with the latest research and treatment techniques. Connect with fellow professionals and share insights.
The Trauma Therapist Podcast listeners can join for just $1.00! http://therapywisdom.com/circle
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.
You can learn more about what I do here:
The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSa
———
If you’d like to support The Trauma Therapist Podcast and the work I do you can do that here with a monthly donation of $5, $7, or $10: Donate to The Trauma Therapist Podcast.
Click here to join my email list and receive podcast updates and other news.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Trauma Papist podcast. My name is got Macpherson.
I interview incredible people who dedicated their lives to helping
those who have been impacted by trauma. Here we go,
So five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome
back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
guest today. James James, Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
James is a former armbat Army combat veteran who, after
serving in combat environments, began his own journey to understanding
and treating trauma. Now a psychiatrist specializing in PTSD and trauma,
James currently serves as the director of Behavioral Health for
ZEEM Health and Wellness. In addition to his clinical work,
he co founded the nonprofit Interdepse Free Diving, where he
(00:46):
serves as a mental health program director. At inter Depths,
he supports trauma survivors and reconnecting with their bodies and
regulating their nervous systems through the transformative power of water
and breath, teaching free diving skill integrated with mental health support. Yeah, awesome, bio,
(01:06):
I mean combat veteran. Of course, you have to get
out and become a psychiatrist. And then so anyway, just
really really awesome. But before we could get into all that,
share with the listeners where you're from originally and where
you are currently.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, thanks, I appreciate. So I am. I'm from New
Mexico originally, where I grew up, and I'm currently based
out of Sacramento, California.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Okay, all right, so all right, let's start from the beginning. Sure, Yeah, military,
how why? What?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes? I remember it was kind of a combo, you know,
being I think a young male in my frontal lobe
not fully developed, and I did want to serve, and
I think part of me really wanted to go over
and I was kinda wanted to see things from myself
and like real things, And so that's kind of what
(02:05):
got me into the army is you know, it was exciting.
There's adrenaline, there, felt like something meaningful. I was right
in high school when nine to eleven happened to so
that was kind of there in the context of what
I joined as well. So yeah, and that's kind of
how I ended up. I didn't necessarily think I was
(02:26):
going to be going into infantry, you know, I became
a kind of infantry of toon leader was my job,
you know, my MS and the army. But yeah, it's
kind of how I ended up there. But I didn't
really have I had a grandfather Navy, but I, you know,
just kind of looking for an adventure, I think. So.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
In the bio, it says, after serving in combat environments,
you began your own journey to understanding and treating trauma.
You don't say specifically your trauma. It was your trauma
or the trauma you saw experience, what.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, I mean, it was definitely it was bold, you know,
it was I had my own experiences over there of
on a loss and death and some really challenging moments
that that you know, still affect me in their own
ways today. And then and then you know, when I
(03:28):
was serving the time, you know, I remember I had
this this this memory of when all of a sudden,
like the news started talking about like how many veterans
were committing suicide and and and like we just kind
of knew this, you know, like that was like our
life that we accepted.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You know, it's like like of course this happens, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, And and so it was, and I was somehow
like in chart of that we came back and we
knew it was a problem. I mean, we'd come back
from deployments and had like I want to say, like
our our company ID like two or three suicides or
suicide attempts just coming back, and and I was like
I was somehow in charge of like monitoring I don't know,
(04:14):
I don't know shit about this, you know. I was like,
I don't know, and my own, you know, my own
kind of experiences that I was trying to kind of
deal with and process, and so it was it was
a combo of that. It was just kind of what
it was like for me, and then watching the people
around me cope with it too in a way. And
(04:38):
so that was kind of the dealing with it and
and and dealing with it, I mean was like recognizing
that I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I really didn't, Right, So how does that unfold? Do
you get out and what happens?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah? So I actually so I was originally with the
eighty second Airboard and and then I had gotten picked
up to become a opportune leader at the Ranger Battalion.
And when I went over there, I got injured. I
had a pretty bad heat stroke, and that kind of
(05:14):
you know, took me out of the deployment status, which
at that time, you know, that was kind of the goal,
right that was the job was to deploy. And so
but I also kind of had this sense that like
I was gonna chase my own death down eventually in
(05:37):
some sense, like I luck was going to run out,
you know, it already kind of had a few really
close calls, and after that injury, it kind of just reset.
And you know, I went from this almost like accepting
that I wasn't going to live in my thirties to
(05:58):
I kind of want to be in a relationship, you know,
get married to kids, and I don't know that I'm
going to be able to do that if I keep going.
And so that's when I kind of decided to get
out of the army. And I didn't I didn't really
know what I wanted to do. I didn't really know
what it could do. Like everything felt crazy, you know
(06:20):
that to kind of transition to that wasn't like fighting
or shooting or something like that, and and that had
already kind of taken its toll on me, and and
so I so I actually got out. I worked as
a police officer in Albuquerque, New Mexico and went back
(06:42):
to school, and I had this crazy idea I was
going to go to med school because that made sense.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Let me play right there for a second. Yeah, So
were you experiencing symptoms of PTSD at this time?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I was, Yeah, yeah, it's kind of it's it's just
when I look back on it, you know, when I
was working as a cop, and even when I was
in the Army, because I was like in it, some
of those symptoms weren't nearly as a parent. You know,
it was just because my mindset was there. You know,
(07:19):
I wasn't making these context switches like between you know,
violence to normal life all the time, and so I
don't think it was as much when they really became
a parent for me personally. It was actually when I
went when I went back to school to get my
med school PREWEX and I was in a creative writing
(07:42):
class and I had the first panic attack I've ever
had in my life, Like sitting in there with like
a bunch of eighteen year old college students in a
creative writing class, just like freaked out. And that was
kind of like something's wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I can look back and say, like why that happened
in there, but you know, the tough like that was
what it really Those two worlds kind of came together,
and I was like, like, what's what's going on with me?
Like I can can go and I could get shot
at and be okay and do these things, and I
can't sit in a classroom with eighteen year olds and
read papers and so yeah, I was I did kind
(08:23):
of start to experience things. I mean, I mean I
did experience like, you know, had like nightmares. My sleep
was just completely messed up, you know, But I didn't really,
i think, have a framework at the time to like
say like, oh, that's what this is. It's just like,
you know, that's what I did in my body and
now I'm dealing with it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, so you you decide to go to school, go
to college. How some might say that the shift from
the military to medical school maybe not draw a direct
line to that. Yeah, maybe you could argue that there is.
But what was your reasoning or what was your inspiration
(09:03):
for doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, it was it was a couple of things. I think,
you know, I'd had to make some decisions overseas that
you know it, but that were really hard for me.
You know that to protect us, we had to kind
(09:29):
of destroy something else, and that really weighed on me.
And I think I think when I got out, it
wasn't necessarily a I absolutely have to make up for this,
but I had this feeling of like I've done a
lot of destruction, and the idea, at least at the time, well,
(09:50):
it wasn't you know. I was kind of processing this
in the own way, like like medicine or something that
feels like a way that I can kind of like,
you know, fix my karmath well, a way that I
could get back and and and it was interesting to me.
And I always like did like science, and I enjoyed
going back to school, and yeah, so that was kind
(10:14):
of how I got there. But you know, I think,
like become a psychiatrist and and go to med school.
I like probably the most impactful moment was when I
got my pre wrecks and then I had applied to
med school, which felt crazy. It's like, this is like
(10:38):
what am I doing? You know? And but I I
found out I got into the University of New Mexico,
and it was pretty pumped about that. And I called
my best friend from the Army, Frankie Kim, and he
was he was in Florida, and he was kind of
(11:00):
his own stuff over there, and I was like, I
got to bed school. It's crazy. He's like, that's awesome,
you know. And we'd kind of like the life after
the Army was like going to funerals and you know,
so and so died and and that stuff, and so,
you know, with the close people, it was like when
something good happened where we felt like like we might
(11:22):
make it kind of a thing. We're like, hey, you know,
made it right, or or someone gets married and the
and so, yeah, I called Frankie to tell him because
because he was just we were close like that, and
and Frankie had been dealing with his own kind of
survivor's guilt from his deployments and and I think it
(11:43):
was kind of self medicating, but just very like kind
kind excited person. And and I remember we had this
conversation and at the same time he told me like
he'd gone to the BA for the first time and
actually started on an antidepressant. And I was, you know,
(12:04):
I was happy for him too. I was like glad,
I know he'd been suffering. And and then a week
after I told him my phone rang and our other
friend called and like I knew the second I saw
it on my phone. I picked it up and he said,
Frankie killed himself. And that just like ripped this like
(12:31):
ground out from under me. You know, it was like
this the person that I was. You know, we talked
about how hard school was, how hard going back to
school was, you know, doing what we did and being
around other people where you can't really talk about it,
and so you know, I went into and actually to
(12:51):
add to that, what was extra hard was, you know,
it wasn't quite sure. And I called Frankie's brother and
he was like, yeah, he did, and he said, you know,
he was there. I think it was for Thanksgiving or
holiday and his brother Niki, was like, yeah, we talked
to him and he said he's like he told us
he got into med school and was so excited for you,
(13:15):
and that just you know, totally kind of changed what
I thought I wanted to do and kind of why
I wanted to do it. It took me a while
to like grieve and process that also. And at the time,
(13:36):
you know, when I started meds, I was like, I'm
sure I'm gonna be an emergency Posisue and I just
like that's where I go, you know. I But then
I went into you know, did our psychiatry rotations, and
there was something that kind of connected with me in
a way, and it felt like I finally had some
(13:57):
tools to kind of talk about and do the things
that like we're being asked to me that I had
no idea what to do. And so yeah, that was
kind of the the transition into med school and becoming
a psychiatrists. It was wow.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, man, thanks for sharing that story. That is freaking intense.
And as you were telling, as you were talking about
your friend and I was listening, part of me was like,
do not tell me that this guy is gonna but
you could feel it. So when you decided to pursue psychiatry,
(14:40):
was it, yes, I want to work in trauma and
PTSD or did did that just slowly happen or what
I think.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It slowly happened? You know, I I don't think I
could have. It took me a while to understand myself
and my own kind of process before I could like
do this kind of work in a healthy way. I
think I just prior to that, right, I've been I've
been dealing with kind of my own symptoms and things
(15:15):
that I was going through, and I was naturally introspective.
You know, I would say I'm kind of young in
in my psychological kind of understanding. I would say that
I took kind of an intuitive introvert. I just kind
of naturally kind of like dive inward and want to
think about myself and what's going on and why that is.
(15:37):
And so I've always got to like interested in that.
And then and then I liked the aspect of like
talking to someone and that like to get you know,
to understand them, I have to be able to ask
the questions correctly for them and understand them. And so
that really kind of appealed to me in a way.
And so like the field of psychiatry and and and
(15:59):
the work of that was kind of interesting. And then,
you know, when I got that under my belt and
I kind of understood myself a lot more on what
I wanted to do. That was really when they kind
of came together where you know, the trauma and and
how I thought about that and being able to apply
(16:19):
my experiences in a way that was like healthy, felt
really positive and kind of the direction that I was
headed let.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Me just remind everyone I'm speaking with James. Doctor James Young.
He is the founder co founder of inter Depths Free Diving,
also director of Behavioral Health for Zeem Health and Wellness. So,
all right, you both through medical school, you become a psychiatrist,
(16:49):
you are a psychiatrist. Talk to us about It's interesting
when you were just speaking, you use the word I
kind of like to naturally dive into my inner, inner, inner,
inner experience, which is obviously what inter depth is is.
So how did this come about?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, in your depth? So, school was hard, I I
I and and residency was hard, and you know, I
think the reality of being a veteran in school and
and I'm you know, I might generalize here a little bit,
but on universities, and my experience was that like it's
(17:35):
not really recognized, you know, it's it's there are other
things that I really kind of pointed out, but I
never really felt like it was kind of found or group.
I really talked about it, but it was it was
like the kind of environment of college and school, Like
the academic environment wasn't always as as welcoming or kind
(17:56):
of curious about natural experiences. And and you know, I met.
I met good people in residency, but it was also
kind of a similar type thing where you know, people
kind of knew what I did or a little bit
about my background, but but I I couldn't really share
a lot. It was like too shocking, too upsetting. People
(18:21):
didn't really know how how that worked in psychiatry, you know, like,
how do I bring that into psychiatry is a weird thing.
I didn't really know fully how I brought that into psychiatry.
I was learning how how those parts of me kind
of coexisted. And and so just getting through residency was
(18:42):
a struggle, and not the academic part, just the like
can I do this? How can I be a doctor
and a psychiatrist? Because then I was really doing the work,
and it was kind of weird experience to be there.
You know, It's like going through the idea of being
a psychiatrist to doing it and having to process kind
of a whole extra layer of myself in that. And
(19:06):
so I had some really important kind of experiences and mentors.
One of them, John Strass, he's a he's a psychiatrist,
is about to retire but works out of the VA
and in San Francisco, and and I met him through
a veteran surfing organization, Operations Surf, which I just went
(19:29):
to as a participant. I take veterans and you know
kind of surf.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, is that what is Operations Surf? That sounds very
familiar to me.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, there's I mean they're they're becoming bigger. I mean
they're the surf therapy is you know, really kind of
picked up right a wi of therapy and and so
this was a pretty large organization, but it was it
was really cool. And and so I met John Strass
when I was a It goes by Strass too, but
(20:07):
he uh when I was a fourth year medical student
and at this and I went as a participant, and
that connected me and I was like, yeah, I'm going
to my psychiatry residency and that's pretty wild. And so
he was, you know, then there are a lot of
people that kind of helped me through this, but he
(20:27):
was he was kind of fundamental in keeping me put
together to residency. No, I would I would call him
on the phone when I was really started, like you
I can't believe that. I'm like I'm done, I'm out
of here, you know, like and he's like, you know,
you're good like through this right, it's it's and he
(20:48):
really encouraged me to kind of like I would come
out and surf with veterans, and so I I something
in me just kind of wanted to. I think part
of what I was missing was, you know, and if
you haven't kind of experienced this, it's explained, but there
was something peaceful about the intensity of combat, like, and
(21:11):
I kind of describe it to patients as like, you know,
we walk around in this world and we have to
play the game. You know, the game is kind of
these structures and these things that that feel real to us,
but they're not really real.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's like the when I was in med school, right,
It's like that's my world, right, like all these people
around me like that, and you step out of it,
You're like, wait a second, no, you know, I just
not do this right. And and when you're in combat,
it's like the game is gone. It's very simple. You know,
you're going to die or not going to die. There
aren't these arbitrary rules or something like that. And I
(21:52):
think you can get to that understanding in a healthy way,
because you know, if you kind of get too trapped
in the game, it's can cause a lot of suffering,
and I just i'd been trying to put that side
of me down, I think because it just didn't feel
compatible with medicine, like, but I think I needed some
(22:13):
of that, and there was some edge that I think
partly I needed to feel to kind of fully feel connected,
and I had more to lose at that time. So,
you know, riding motorcycles really fast like I did before
was less of an option, and so free diving just
kind of seemed to appeal in that way. I was like,
(22:34):
I'm gonna try that seems hard. Freaks me out a
little bit, you know, I get a little like of
that philasophobiat of fear of that kind of dark, big
the water, and so it was a challenge, but it
really kind of I mean, it was amazing when I
did it, and it just kind of decided to do
it in residency, and it was it's like I dove
(22:57):
down the first time when I got comfortable, and I
was like boom, It's like wow, you know, that was amazing,
and and so that that's when we started. I started
doing that, and my wife learned to do it, and
and then by us doing and I was like recognizing
that by doing free diving, I'm like learning and doing
(23:19):
the same things I like teach patients that I meet
with and trauma. So that's kind of how that all, yeah,
came to be.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So free diving for those listeners who don't know, is
what give us? Give us the thumbnail.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I mean, I mean basically, you know, holding your breath
and diving down and and nice. Yeah it's not that simple,
but yeah, it's like learning how to kind of tolerate
the experience of holding your breath and relaxing and and
I mean people do it for different reasons. You can
dive for depth or time or.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, okay, now some might be familiar with like these
super deep pools where they have like guide ropes.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Is that what you're doing, Yeah, I mean that's how
you learn. I personally have not like like sometimes they
call them like depth seekers, you know, I I that
is not necessarily what pulls me in, Like I like
diving down to a certain depth that that feels like
a challenge and then being able to spend as much
time down there comfortably by myself on one breath as
(24:25):
I can. So mm hm, you know, it's like extreme snorkeling.
Might be a term that I used to describe what
I what I like doing.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Okay, so get more specific about inter depths and what
do you do there? Who do you Is it just uh,
people who've experienced trauma or what?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's primarily the focus of people who
experienced trauma. And we you know, we created this course
that kind of tries to integrate the mental health understanding
of you know, like nervous system regulation and those things
(25:08):
and and what happens in trauma. So like so like
we'll take participants and and so our most recent one
was in ConA. We did a ConA, Hawaii, which is
a really big brain diving locations. There's a lot of
free divers out there. And we had a women's program
you know when it's program plus plus me and and
(25:31):
so it's it starts it's kind of like a educational
portion where I'm kind of describing like what happens in
our brains with trauma, which I think is really important
for people to understand, and then connecting kind of like
what we're going to do and what you learn in
(25:51):
just by learning free diving, how that could be applied
to help kind of reduce activation and the kind of
nervous system in balances that happen, you know, when you
have PTSD, and how to kind of tolerate stress. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(26:13):
yeah yeah, so a lot of it, right, Like when
you're learning to free dive, you're you're learning to kind
of it's like, can you relax more in a certain way.
It's like like it's you know, it'll be really like
goes out and like just holds their breath for fun
for a long time because it doesn't feel good. But
(26:36):
by doing that right, like it's pretty incredible how long
you can actually hold your breath for. But by one,
you have to really relax before you do this. Like
like your body will tell you pretty quickly if you're tense.
Because our urge to breathe really is driven by CO two,
(26:56):
so it's not actually low oxygen for most of the world.
Our CO two build up is like that that I
gotta breathe, and that happens, you know, that will increase
when we're tents and our muscle tents, right, we're like
creating more CO two and that builds up. So it's
like this this automatic like indication like your tents, you know,
(27:18):
and you can tell so like a lot of it
is just learning how to first, like you know, learning
kind of like mindfulness and relaxation. So before you're about
to do this, this thing that you know is going
to be pretty uncomfortable, like can you can you relax
and kind of breathe into that, then prepare for this
and then and then actually like doing the breathe up
(27:39):
and taking this big breath and tell people like you
sit there and when you're practicing, you got a lot
of time allow with your thoughts doing nothing, and your
body starts to feel uncomfortable that you know, the hamster
on the wheel starts going around. They say like they're like,
(28:00):
now you're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make
it that far. You know, you're not good enough. Like
that's where all these things come up, these these like
lines and those things about yourself where like if you
hold it one more, you know, ten more seconds, you're
probably gonna die for sure. And so that's like kind
of a mental experience, right, and then your body is tense,
and so so learning to do it well means learning
(28:24):
how to deal with those thoughts, and it means knowing
and you start to get a really kind of a
tuned sense of like, oh yeah, like how many hell
it for a minute and a half, Like my shoulders
were tense. I definitely know that, right, And you start
doing that process of like kind of like biofeedback in
a way. And so and it is like the term
(28:47):
I kind of is this distress tolerance. And so it's
like how do you kind of in a really intense
situation calm yourself, you know, call yourself to think think
through something. And so when they learn that, then they
can apply it to There's like when you're diving, there's
(29:08):
this kind of a sequence of of of diving to
kind of best best preserve your you know, your energy
and not build up CO two. But it actually requires
kind of some thinking through when you're learning. And so
you know, in trauma, a lot of what we see
right when we see like fMRIs is this you know,
central executive network in our brain that controls like the
(29:31):
planning and thinking through things and and and so I
kind of explained to participants that's why you like people
feel like like I know this, right, I have done.
And then when you're activated at a certain level, right, it's
like not right, you can't you know, I say, like
I tell them, you know that our body was not
meant to do calculus when we're running from a lion,
(29:53):
you know, it's it. And so so you have to
calm yourself down enough to be able to think through
those sequences. And then and then there's always a moment
when you dive down where you're like, oh ship, you know,
like I'm I'm I'm deep and I got to make
sure you back up right, And so it's it's another
moment where you kind of deal with that that kind
(30:17):
of distress and those just environments and like the more
you go down come up, the more you learn about
your body and kind of where you're tense and what
happened and the right exactly. Yeah, and I think it too.
It's like when I do it in the office, you know,
some often we're talking about specific content that's really challenging,
(30:41):
and so this free diving, you know, seem to offer
a way to do that with that where the goal
is like like be more relaxed and comfortable and dive
in the ocean and see beautiful things. And you're still
training kind of those abilities without me ka digging into
(31:01):
some really gnarly experiences in your past, but then you
can apply that right too. When you do have to
do that, you have to talk about those things. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Well, so you talked about program in Hawaii. Are you
what kind of programs are you offering for people?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, so we're we're in another kind of a mixed group.
We're we're planning on some veteran specific free diving programs
coming up here probably probably in the fall, and so yeah,
we're I'm kind of excited. All it's early. We're working
with Martin's uh product kind of miss mispronounced his last name.
(31:46):
So he's a He founded or co founded FII, which
is the Free Diving Organization certification organization, because you know,
we want to make sure it's like state right, it's
there's us there, and so we always like have to
be saved and so FII is probably, i think, you know,
in our opinion, one of the safest oriented the way
(32:08):
they teach it, and so we're hoping to he's been
he's really excited, and we've worked with him on on
developing a kind of the first Trauma Formed instructor certifications
so we can kind of teach the trauma and form
principles to the your current free diving instructors to help
(32:30):
expand this, you know, to more groups and classes.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
And awesome, yeah, all right, James. How do people learn
more about you and what you're what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Zine health zinehealth dot com. You know, it's kind of
our website and reach out there and also inter depths.
Free Diving dot org is is the website for organization,
and there's there's links to kind of contact and you know,
(33:01):
always pumped talking spread the word about things that help
with trauma.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Awesome and zeem is spelled z e A m z A. Awesome,
all right, James. Awesome, man, love to have you back.
Super inspiring. I just love what you're doing. Appreciate it.
Thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I appreciate you having me on to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
All right, man, We'll be in touch
Welcome to the Trauma Papist podcast. My name is got Macpherson.
I interview incredible people who dedicated their lives to helping
those who have been impacted by trauma. Here we go,
So five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome
back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
guest today. James James, Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
James is a former armbat Army combat veteran who, after
serving in combat environments, began his own journey to understanding
and treating trauma. Now a psychiatrist specializing in PTSD and trauma,
James currently serves as the director of Behavioral Health for
ZEEM Health and Wellness. In addition to his clinical work,
he co founded the nonprofit Interdepse Free Diving, where he
(00:46):
serves as a mental health program director. At inter Depths,
he supports trauma survivors and reconnecting with their bodies and
regulating their nervous systems through the transformative power of water
and breath, teaching free diving skill integrated with mental health support. Yeah, awesome, bio,
(01:06):
I mean combat veteran. Of course, you have to get
out and become a psychiatrist. And then so anyway, just
really really awesome. But before we could get into all that,
share with the listeners where you're from originally and where
you are currently.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, thanks, I appreciate. So I am. I'm from New
Mexico originally, where I grew up, and I'm currently based
out of Sacramento, California.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Okay, all right, so all right, let's start from the beginning. Sure, Yeah, military,
how why? What?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes? I remember it was kind of a combo, you know,
being I think a young male in my frontal lobe
not fully developed, and I did want to serve, and
I think part of me really wanted to go over
and I was kinda wanted to see things from myself
and like real things, And so that's kind of what
(02:05):
got me into the army is you know, it was exciting.
There's adrenaline, there, felt like something meaningful. I was right
in high school when nine to eleven happened to so
that was kind of there in the context of what
I joined as well. So yeah, and that's kind of
how I ended up. I didn't necessarily think I was
(02:26):
going to be going into infantry, you know, I became
a kind of infantry of toon leader was my job,
you know, my MS and the army. But yeah, it's
kind of how I ended up there. But I didn't
really have I had a grandfather Navy, but I, you know,
just kind of looking for an adventure, I think. So.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
In the bio, it says, after serving in combat environments,
you began your own journey to understanding and treating trauma.
You don't say specifically your trauma. It was your trauma
or the trauma you saw experience, what.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, I mean, it was definitely it was bold, you know,
it was I had my own experiences over there of
on a loss and death and some really challenging moments
that that you know, still affect me in their own
ways today. And then and then you know, when I
(03:28):
was serving the time, you know, I remember I had
this this this memory of when all of a sudden,
like the news started talking about like how many veterans
were committing suicide and and and like we just kind
of knew this, you know, like that was like our
life that we accepted.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You know, it's like like of course this happens, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, And and so it was, and I was somehow
like in chart of that we came back and we
knew it was a problem. I mean, we'd come back
from deployments and had like I want to say, like
our our company ID like two or three suicides or
suicide attempts just coming back, and and I was like
I was somehow in charge of like monitoring I don't know,
(04:14):
I don't know shit about this, you know. I was like,
I don't know, and my own, you know, my own
kind of experiences that I was trying to kind of
deal with and process, and so it was it was
a combo of that. It was just kind of what
it was like for me, and then watching the people
around me cope with it too in a way. And
(04:38):
so that was kind of the dealing with it and
and and dealing with it, I mean was like recognizing
that I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I really didn't, Right, So how does that unfold? Do
you get out and what happens?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah? So I actually so I was originally with the
eighty second Airboard and and then I had gotten picked
up to become a opportune leader at the Ranger Battalion.
And when I went over there, I got injured. I
had a pretty bad heat stroke, and that kind of
(05:14):
you know, took me out of the deployment status, which
at that time, you know, that was kind of the goal,
right that was the job was to deploy. And so
but I also kind of had this sense that like
I was gonna chase my own death down eventually in
(05:37):
some sense, like I luck was going to run out,
you know, it already kind of had a few really
close calls, and after that injury, it kind of just reset.
And you know, I went from this almost like accepting
that I wasn't going to live in my thirties to
(05:58):
I kind of want to be in a relationship, you know,
get married to kids, and I don't know that I'm
going to be able to do that if I keep going.
And so that's when I kind of decided to get
out of the army. And I didn't I didn't really
know what I wanted to do. I didn't really know
what it could do. Like everything felt crazy, you know
(06:20):
that to kind of transition to that wasn't like fighting
or shooting or something like that, and and that had
already kind of taken its toll on me, and and
so I so I actually got out. I worked as
a police officer in Albuquerque, New Mexico and went back
(06:42):
to school, and I had this crazy idea I was
going to go to med school because that made sense.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Let me play right there for a second. Yeah, So
were you experiencing symptoms of PTSD at this time?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I was, Yeah, yeah, it's kind of it's it's just
when I look back on it, you know, when I
was working as a cop, and even when I was
in the Army, because I was like in it, some
of those symptoms weren't nearly as a parent. You know,
it was just because my mindset was there. You know,
(07:19):
I wasn't making these context switches like between you know,
violence to normal life all the time, and so I
don't think it was as much when they really became
a parent for me personally. It was actually when I
went when I went back to school to get my
med school PREWEX and I was in a creative writing
(07:42):
class and I had the first panic attack I've ever
had in my life, Like sitting in there with like
a bunch of eighteen year old college students in a
creative writing class, just like freaked out. And that was
kind of like something's wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I can look back and say, like why that happened
in there, but you know, the tough like that was
what it really Those two worlds kind of came together,
and I was like, like, what's what's going on with me?
Like I can can go and I could get shot
at and be okay and do these things, and I
can't sit in a classroom with eighteen year olds and
read papers and so yeah, I was I did kind
(08:23):
of start to experience things. I mean, I mean I
did experience like, you know, had like nightmares. My sleep
was just completely messed up, you know, But I didn't really,
i think, have a framework at the time to like
say like, oh, that's what this is. It's just like,
you know, that's what I did in my body and
now I'm dealing with it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, so you you decide to go to school, go
to college. How some might say that the shift from
the military to medical school maybe not draw a direct
line to that. Yeah, maybe you could argue that there is.
But what was your reasoning or what was your inspiration
(09:03):
for doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, it was it was a couple of things. I think,
you know, I'd had to make some decisions overseas that
you know it, but that were really hard for me.
You know that to protect us, we had to kind
(09:29):
of destroy something else, and that really weighed on me.
And I think I think when I got out, it
wasn't necessarily a I absolutely have to make up for this,
but I had this feeling of like I've done a
lot of destruction, and the idea, at least at the time, well,
(09:50):
it wasn't you know. I was kind of processing this
in the own way, like like medicine or something that
feels like a way that I can kind of like,
you know, fix my karmath well, a way that I
could get back and and and it was interesting to me.
And I always like did like science, and I enjoyed
going back to school, and yeah, so that was kind
(10:14):
of how I got there. But you know, I think,
like become a psychiatrist and and go to med school.
I like probably the most impactful moment was when I
got my pre wrecks and then I had applied to
med school, which felt crazy. It's like, this is like
(10:38):
what am I doing? You know? And but I I
found out I got into the University of New Mexico,
and it was pretty pumped about that. And I called
my best friend from the Army, Frankie Kim, and he
was he was in Florida, and he was kind of
(11:00):
his own stuff over there, and I was like, I
got to bed school. It's crazy. He's like, that's awesome,
you know. And we'd kind of like the life after
the Army was like going to funerals and you know,
so and so died and and that stuff, and so,
you know, with the close people, it was like when
something good happened where we felt like like we might
(11:22):
make it kind of a thing. We're like, hey, you know,
made it right, or or someone gets married and the
and so, yeah, I called Frankie to tell him because
because he was just we were close like that, and
and Frankie had been dealing with his own kind of
survivor's guilt from his deployments and and I think it
(11:43):
was kind of self medicating, but just very like kind
kind excited person. And and I remember we had this
conversation and at the same time he told me like
he'd gone to the BA for the first time and
actually started on an antidepressant. And I was, you know,
(12:04):
I was happy for him too. I was like glad,
I know he'd been suffering. And and then a week
after I told him my phone rang and our other
friend called and like I knew the second I saw
it on my phone. I picked it up and he said,
Frankie killed himself. And that just like ripped this like
(12:31):
ground out from under me. You know, it was like
this the person that I was. You know, we talked
about how hard school was, how hard going back to
school was, you know, doing what we did and being
around other people where you can't really talk about it,
and so you know, I went into and actually to
(12:51):
add to that, what was extra hard was, you know,
it wasn't quite sure. And I called Frankie's brother and
he was like, yeah, he did, and he said, you know,
he was there. I think it was for Thanksgiving or
holiday and his brother Niki, was like, yeah, we talked
to him and he said he's like he told us
he got into med school and was so excited for you,
(13:15):
and that just you know, totally kind of changed what
I thought I wanted to do and kind of why
I wanted to do it. It took me a while
to like grieve and process that also. And at the time,
(13:36):
you know, when I started meds, I was like, I'm
sure I'm gonna be an emergency Posisue and I just
like that's where I go, you know. I But then
I went into you know, did our psychiatry rotations, and
there was something that kind of connected with me in
a way, and it felt like I finally had some
(13:57):
tools to kind of talk about and do the things
that like we're being asked to me that I had
no idea what to do. And so yeah, that was
kind of the the transition into med school and becoming
a psychiatrists. It was wow.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, man, thanks for sharing that story. That is freaking intense.
And as you were telling, as you were talking about
your friend and I was listening, part of me was like,
do not tell me that this guy is gonna but
you could feel it. So when you decided to pursue psychiatry,
(14:40):
was it, yes, I want to work in trauma and
PTSD or did did that just slowly happen or what
I think.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It slowly happened? You know, I I don't think I
could have. It took me a while to understand myself
and my own kind of process before I could like
do this kind of work in a healthy way. I
think I just prior to that, right, I've been I've
been dealing with kind of my own symptoms and things
(15:15):
that I was going through, and I was naturally introspective.
You know, I would say I'm kind of young in
in my psychological kind of understanding. I would say that
I took kind of an intuitive introvert. I just kind
of naturally kind of like dive inward and want to
think about myself and what's going on and why that is.
(15:37):
And so I've always got to like interested in that.
And then and then I liked the aspect of like
talking to someone and that like to get you know,
to understand them, I have to be able to ask
the questions correctly for them and understand them. And so
that really kind of appealed to me in a way.
And so like the field of psychiatry and and and
(15:59):
the work of that was kind of interesting. And then,
you know, when I got that under my belt and
I kind of understood myself a lot more on what
I wanted to do. That was really when they kind
of came together where you know, the trauma and and
how I thought about that and being able to apply
(16:19):
my experiences in a way that was like healthy, felt
really positive and kind of the direction that I was
headed let.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Me just remind everyone I'm speaking with James. Doctor James Young.
He is the founder co founder of inter Depths Free Diving,
also director of Behavioral Health for Zeem Health and Wellness. So,
all right, you both through medical school, you become a psychiatrist,
(16:49):
you are a psychiatrist. Talk to us about It's interesting
when you were just speaking, you use the word I
kind of like to naturally dive into my inner, inner, inner,
inner experience, which is obviously what inter depth is is.
So how did this come about?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, in your depth? So, school was hard, I I
I and and residency was hard, and you know, I
think the reality of being a veteran in school and
and I'm you know, I might generalize here a little bit,
but on universities, and my experience was that like it's
(17:35):
not really recognized, you know, it's it's there are other
things that I really kind of pointed out, but I
never really felt like it was kind of found or group.
I really talked about it, but it was it was
like the kind of environment of college and school, Like
the academic environment wasn't always as as welcoming or kind
(17:56):
of curious about natural experiences. And and you know, I met.
I met good people in residency, but it was also
kind of a similar type thing where you know, people
kind of knew what I did or a little bit
about my background, but but I I couldn't really share
a lot. It was like too shocking, too upsetting. People
(18:21):
didn't really know how how that worked in psychiatry, you know, like,
how do I bring that into psychiatry is a weird thing.
I didn't really know fully how I brought that into psychiatry.
I was learning how how those parts of me kind
of coexisted. And and so just getting through residency was
(18:42):
a struggle, and not the academic part, just the like
can I do this? How can I be a doctor
and a psychiatrist? Because then I was really doing the work,
and it was kind of weird experience to be there.
You know, It's like going through the idea of being
a psychiatrist to doing it and having to process kind
of a whole extra layer of myself in that. And
(19:06):
so I had some really important kind of experiences and mentors.
One of them, John Strass, he's a he's a psychiatrist,
is about to retire but works out of the VA
and in San Francisco, and and I met him through
a veteran surfing organization, Operations Surf, which I just went
(19:29):
to as a participant. I take veterans and you know
kind of surf.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, is that what is Operations Surf? That sounds very
familiar to me.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, there's I mean they're they're becoming bigger. I mean
they're the surf therapy is you know, really kind of
picked up right a wi of therapy and and so
this was a pretty large organization, but it was it
was really cool. And and so I met John Strass
when I was a It goes by Strass too, but
(20:07):
he uh when I was a fourth year medical student
and at this and I went as a participant, and
that connected me and I was like, yeah, I'm going
to my psychiatry residency and that's pretty wild. And so
he was, you know, then there are a lot of
people that kind of helped me through this, but he
(20:27):
was he was kind of fundamental in keeping me put
together to residency. No, I would I would call him
on the phone when I was really started, like you
I can't believe that. I'm like I'm done, I'm out
of here, you know, like and he's like, you know,
you're good like through this right, it's it's and he
(20:48):
really encouraged me to kind of like I would come
out and surf with veterans, and so I I something
in me just kind of wanted to. I think part
of what I was missing was, you know, and if
you haven't kind of experienced this, it's explained, but there
was something peaceful about the intensity of combat, like, and
(21:11):
I kind of describe it to patients as like, you know,
we walk around in this world and we have to
play the game. You know, the game is kind of
these structures and these things that that feel real to us,
but they're not really real.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's like the when I was in med school, right,
It's like that's my world, right, like all these people
around me like that, and you step out of it,
You're like, wait a second, no, you know, I just
not do this right. And and when you're in combat,
it's like the game is gone. It's very simple. You know,
you're going to die or not going to die. There
aren't these arbitrary rules or something like that. And I
(21:52):
think you can get to that understanding in a healthy way,
because you know, if you kind of get too trapped
in the game, it's can cause a lot of suffering,
and I just i'd been trying to put that side
of me down, I think because it just didn't feel
compatible with medicine, like, but I think I needed some
(22:13):
of that, and there was some edge that I think
partly I needed to feel to kind of fully feel connected,
and I had more to lose at that time. So,
you know, riding motorcycles really fast like I did before
was less of an option, and so free diving just
kind of seemed to appeal in that way. I was like,
(22:34):
I'm gonna try that seems hard. Freaks me out a
little bit, you know, I get a little like of
that philasophobiat of fear of that kind of dark, big
the water, and so it was a challenge, but it
really kind of I mean, it was amazing when I
did it, and it just kind of decided to do
it in residency, and it was it's like I dove
(22:57):
down the first time when I got comfortable, and I
was like boom, It's like wow, you know, that was amazing,
and and so that that's when we started. I started
doing that, and my wife learned to do it, and
and then by us doing and I was like recognizing
that by doing free diving, I'm like learning and doing
(23:19):
the same things I like teach patients that I meet
with and trauma. So that's kind of how that all, yeah,
came to be.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So free diving for those listeners who don't know, is
what give us? Give us the thumbnail.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I mean, I mean basically, you know, holding your breath
and diving down and and nice. Yeah it's not that simple,
but yeah, it's like learning how to kind of tolerate
the experience of holding your breath and relaxing and and
I mean people do it for different reasons. You can
dive for depth or time or.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, okay, now some might be familiar with like these
super deep pools where they have like guide ropes.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Is that what you're doing, Yeah, I mean that's how
you learn. I personally have not like like sometimes they
call them like depth seekers, you know, I I that
is not necessarily what pulls me in, Like I like
diving down to a certain depth that that feels like
a challenge and then being able to spend as much
time down there comfortably by myself on one breath as
(24:25):
I can. So mm hm, you know, it's like extreme snorkeling.
Might be a term that I used to describe what
I what I like doing.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Okay, so get more specific about inter depths and what
do you do there? Who do you Is it just uh,
people who've experienced trauma or what?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's primarily the focus of people who
experienced trauma. And we you know, we created this course
that kind of tries to integrate the mental health understanding
of you know, like nervous system regulation and those things
(25:08):
and and what happens in trauma. So like so like
we'll take participants and and so our most recent one
was in ConA. We did a ConA, Hawaii, which is
a really big brain diving locations. There's a lot of
free divers out there. And we had a women's program
you know when it's program plus plus me and and
(25:31):
so it's it starts it's kind of like a educational
portion where I'm kind of describing like what happens in
our brains with trauma, which I think is really important
for people to understand, and then connecting kind of like
what we're going to do and what you learn in
(25:51):
just by learning free diving, how that could be applied
to help kind of reduce activation and the kind of
nervous system in balances that happen, you know, when you
have PTSD, and how to kind of tolerate stress. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(26:13):
yeah yeah, so a lot of it, right, Like when
you're learning to free dive, you're you're learning to kind
of it's like, can you relax more in a certain way.
It's like like it's you know, it'll be really like
goes out and like just holds their breath for fun
for a long time because it doesn't feel good. But
(26:36):
by doing that right, like it's pretty incredible how long
you can actually hold your breath for. But by one,
you have to really relax before you do this. Like
like your body will tell you pretty quickly if you're tense.
Because our urge to breathe really is driven by CO two,
(26:56):
so it's not actually low oxygen for most of the world.
Our CO two build up is like that that I
gotta breathe, and that happens, you know, that will increase
when we're tents and our muscle tents, right, we're like
creating more CO two and that builds up. So it's
like this this automatic like indication like your tents, you know,
(27:18):
and you can tell so like a lot of it
is just learning how to first, like you know, learning
kind of like mindfulness and relaxation. So before you're about
to do this, this thing that you know is going
to be pretty uncomfortable, like can you can you relax
and kind of breathe into that, then prepare for this
and then and then actually like doing the breathe up
(27:39):
and taking this big breath and tell people like you
sit there and when you're practicing, you got a lot
of time allow with your thoughts doing nothing, and your
body starts to feel uncomfortable that you know, the hamster
on the wheel starts going around. They say like they're like,
(28:00):
now you're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make
it that far. You know, you're not good enough. Like
that's where all these things come up, these these like
lines and those things about yourself where like if you
hold it one more, you know, ten more seconds, you're
probably gonna die for sure. And so that's like kind
of a mental experience, right, and then your body is tense,
and so so learning to do it well means learning
(28:24):
how to deal with those thoughts, and it means knowing
and you start to get a really kind of a
tuned sense of like, oh yeah, like how many hell
it for a minute and a half, Like my shoulders
were tense. I definitely know that, right, And you start
doing that process of like kind of like biofeedback in
a way. And so and it is like the term
(28:47):
I kind of is this distress tolerance. And so it's
like how do you kind of in a really intense
situation calm yourself, you know, call yourself to think think
through something. And so when they learn that, then they
can apply it to There's like when you're diving, there's
(29:08):
this kind of a sequence of of of diving to
kind of best best preserve your you know, your energy
and not build up CO two. But it actually requires
kind of some thinking through when you're learning. And so
you know, in trauma, a lot of what we see
right when we see like fMRIs is this you know,
central executive network in our brain that controls like the
(29:31):
planning and thinking through things and and and so I
kind of explained to participants that's why you like people
feel like like I know this, right, I have done.
And then when you're activated at a certain level, right, it's
like not right, you can't you know, I say, like
I tell them, you know that our body was not
meant to do calculus when we're running from a lion,
(29:53):
you know, it's it. And so so you have to
calm yourself down enough to be able to think through
those sequences. And then and then there's always a moment
when you dive down where you're like, oh ship, you know,
like I'm I'm I'm deep and I got to make
sure you back up right, And so it's it's another
moment where you kind of deal with that that kind
(30:17):
of distress and those just environments and like the more
you go down come up, the more you learn about
your body and kind of where you're tense and what
happened and the right exactly. Yeah, and I think it too.
It's like when I do it in the office, you know,
some often we're talking about specific content that's really challenging,
(30:41):
and so this free diving, you know, seem to offer
a way to do that with that where the goal
is like like be more relaxed and comfortable and dive
in the ocean and see beautiful things. And you're still
training kind of those abilities without me ka digging into
(31:01):
some really gnarly experiences in your past, but then you
can apply that right too. When you do have to
do that, you have to talk about those things. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Well, so you talked about program in Hawaii. Are you
what kind of programs are you offering for people?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, so we're we're in another kind of a mixed group.
We're we're planning on some veteran specific free diving programs
coming up here probably probably in the fall, and so yeah,
we're I'm kind of excited. All it's early. We're working
with Martin's uh product kind of miss mispronounced his last name.
(31:46):
So he's a He founded or co founded FII, which
is the Free Diving Organization certification organization, because you know,
we want to make sure it's like state right, it's
there's us there, and so we always like have to
be saved and so FII is probably, i think, you know,
in our opinion, one of the safest oriented the way
(32:08):
they teach it, and so we're hoping to he's been
he's really excited, and we've worked with him on on
developing a kind of the first Trauma Formed instructor certifications
so we can kind of teach the trauma and form
principles to the your current free diving instructors to help
(32:30):
expand this, you know, to more groups and classes.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
And awesome, yeah, all right, James. How do people learn
more about you and what you're what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Zine health zinehealth dot com. You know, it's kind of
our website and reach out there and also inter depths.
Free Diving dot org is is the website for organization,
and there's there's links to kind of contact and you know,
(33:01):
always pumped talking spread the word about things that help
with trauma.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Awesome and zeem is spelled z e A m z A. Awesome,
all right, James. Awesome, man, love to have you back.
Super inspiring. I just love what you're doing. Appreciate it.
Thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I appreciate you having me on to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
All right, man, We'll be in touch
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.