July 10, 2025 • 20 mins
Veronique Mead, MD, MA is a former Dartmouth-affiliated assistant professor of family medicine and obstetrics. She retrained with a Master’s degree in somatic psychotherapy from Naropa University and specialty training in pre and perinatal and other forms of trauma. For the past 25 years she has explored the scientific literature on how effects of trauma from the prenatal and other periods in a person’s life can influence risk for autoimmune and other chronic illnesses. She shares the research on her blog Chronic Illness Trauma Studies.
Euphrasia (Efu) Nyaki was born and raised in Tanzania where she earned a Bachelor of Science degree, trained as a science teacher, and later was trained as a healer using holistic methods. Efu is a Faculty Member of Somatic Experiencing®, a method founded by Dr Peter Levine, and a Professor of Family Constellation System Therapy by Hellinger Institute. In the last 31 years Efu has been living in Brazil facilitating trainings and Holistic therapy for trauma healing using Somatic Experiencing® and Family Constellation System Therapy. While living in Brazil, Efu has also been traveling in different countries such as India, Egypt, South Korea, China, Bolivia, Peru, Spain, Uruguay, Tanzania, Philippines, Sweden, Portugal, Spain and Hong Kong facilitating trainings and workshops. After the pandemic situation, Efu has been giving international trainings, workshops, summits, webinars, podcasts, conferences, and individual therapy sessions and case consults through online. Efu is a co- founder of AFYA: Holistic Healing Center located in the northeast of Brazil. Afya supports many people from the local community as well as national and international individuals that approaches the center to receive support and healing. Efu is a writer of the book titled: Trauma healing using Family Constellation System Therapy and Somatic Experiencing®.
In This Episode
Veronique:
The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSa
The Trauma Therapist Podcast: I interview thought-leaders in the fields of trauma, mindfulness, addiction and yoga such as Peter Levine, Pat Ogden, Bessel van der Kolk and Bruce Perry. https://bit.ly/3VRNy8z
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.
Euphrasia (Efu) Nyaki was born and raised in Tanzania where she earned a Bachelor of Science degree, trained as a science teacher, and later was trained as a healer using holistic methods. Efu is a Faculty Member of Somatic Experiencing®, a method founded by Dr Peter Levine, and a Professor of Family Constellation System Therapy by Hellinger Institute. In the last 31 years Efu has been living in Brazil facilitating trainings and Holistic therapy for trauma healing using Somatic Experiencing® and Family Constellation System Therapy. While living in Brazil, Efu has also been traveling in different countries such as India, Egypt, South Korea, China, Bolivia, Peru, Spain, Uruguay, Tanzania, Philippines, Sweden, Portugal, Spain and Hong Kong facilitating trainings and workshops. After the pandemic situation, Efu has been giving international trainings, workshops, summits, webinars, podcasts, conferences, and individual therapy sessions and case consults through online. Efu is a co- founder of AFYA: Holistic Healing Center located in the northeast of Brazil. Afya supports many people from the local community as well as national and international individuals that approaches the center to receive support and healing. Efu is a writer of the book titled: Trauma healing using Family Constellation System Therapy and Somatic Experiencing®.
In This Episode
Veronique:
- https://chronicillnesstraumastudies.com/
- https://lnk.bio/veroniquemead
- FACEBOOK - https://www.facebook.com/chronicillnesstraumastudies/
- LINKED IN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/veroniquemeadillnessblog/
- YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh-ng96Ji8rJSIJdXjCpCqA/videos
- PINTEREST - https://www.pinterest.com/chrillog/_created/
- INSTAGRAM - https://www.instagram.com/veroniquemead/
- https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0BYXYGQ1V
- https://linktr.ee/efunyaki?utm_source=linktree_profile_share<sid=8eaad01c-d2dd-4e12-a35e-3b250748f25f
The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSa
The Trauma Therapist Podcast: I interview thought-leaders in the fields of trauma, mindfulness, addiction and yoga such as Peter Levine, Pat Ogden, Bessel van der Kolk and Bruce Perry. https://bit.ly/3VRNy8z
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the special guest host series of the Trauma
Thevers podcast, where I'm going to be handing over the
mic to some incredible guest hosts. In each episode, you'll
hear fresh perspectives and unique insights to inform and inspire
you in all the while keeping the heart of this
podcast alive. So sit back and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello everyone, my name is Veronique Mead, and thank you
so much to Guy McPherson of the Trauma Therapist Project
for inviting us. I'm here with Euphrasier Niaki, who was
born and raised in Tanzania, and she is a faculty
(00:41):
who teaches somatic experiencing and also family constellations work IFU,
I am so glad to have you here with us today.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thank you so much, Veronique. When I read your message,
I was very happy that I was able to find
the time for you.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm glad too, Yeah, because you teach all around the
world and you've been in Brazil for the past thirty years.
You were co founder of a healing center called Afia Yes,
and I learned partly about your work. My own is
working with folks with chronic illness and the trauma connection
(01:26):
and what I really wanted you to share with us
today is your chapter in your book the kind of
work you do with asthma, and I'm thinking about adults
with asthma and the components of.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Work that you do. Thank you, yes, thank you very much, Vironiki,
I'll go right into this spot. Yeah, because I was
very when I was writing my book. I decided to
include asthma because it's something that I have worked with
(02:01):
with many people. So I had a good examples that
I could put in a book so that this will
be important to help people around. Yeah, So that was
the major reason to put this chapter in the book.
So I have encounter a lot of people, children or
adults that have asthma, and they're going to crisis a lot.
(02:27):
And when they go to crisis, actually when they have
something that reminds them of the trauma itself the encounter
and often time I will put it that way. Oftentimes
the people whether as children or adults, have asthma, they're
the people who had had trauma, developmental trauma, and they
(02:51):
were separated from their mother at some time. And actually
it's not just from the baby stage. For me, I
have learned more that those who are separated at a
certain age, for example, our a year and a year
and a half, Between a year and a year and
a half up to two years, this is the time
(03:13):
the child has already begin to understand, you to know
the mother. The mother is leaving, the mother is coming back.
And then of course when they are separated, there is
some kind of frustration and anger that coupled together fear, frustration, anger,
and that is it's like a shock trauma. And this
(03:35):
shock trauma shocked their system and especially the lungs because
when they cry, they're not able to take in the
air and that suffocates their lungs and they actually get
inflammation because that affects direct to their lungs and they
(03:56):
have inflammation. And so once they have that, that comes
back and back. Many times. It can be you know,
you can go to the hospital or to the hub
health posts and get some medication, but it doesn't heal
because you have to touch into the roots. Yeah, So
(04:17):
this in a way what I'm talking about here, This
in a way, it is a shock trauma at the
same time it is a developmental trauma. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
The timing is a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
The timing is a really.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, earlier, not Ellie like babies sometimes when okay, those
two were separated from their mothers at the baby stage,
like they're.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Just born and separated, they might have asthma, but it
heals more easily. Even the person who are that those
children will take them at the early stage, taking them
care of them. Here and Brazil, they take them to
the beach early morning and have that energy of the
salt and air. They really heals their asthma right away
(05:07):
because that comes from the sadness. But when they're in
that stage where they actually recognizing a little bit, my
mother did this to me, or my mother separated to me,
I don't, they get very confused because they cry so
much when they can see the mother moving away or
the grandmother taking them or the aunt taking them. Yeah,
(05:30):
and that is very painful for them. So that's sadness.
Sadness they cut down, they shut down the breathing process,
and therefore what happened to their lungs, You know, the
lungs are completely affected and therefore they remain like that.
And so every time they remember their mother or they
(05:50):
remember the episode, the dramatic episode, then they start having crisis. Yeah,
whoever is taking care of them, could do all the
less they can, but still doesn't hear because they need
to heal, they need the connection with their mothers. Yeah,
so when I receive these kind of people with asthma,
(06:12):
I don't take them during the crisis because during the
crisis just give them there. You know, we have tea
herbal teas. Here, we have mad therapy that worm their
their lungs and it's it's like your mama's your mother's
touch whatever because it's warm mad therapy. But then as
(06:32):
they get better, then we can actually work with them.
And what we do the most is to help them
to reconnect with their mother. So now since at that
age two two and a half years old, they they
are they create some kind of tantrum and a very
(06:57):
anger it's really anger and resent with their mother. Therefore,
it is very hard for them even to just advise
them that, you know, you know, like to just pridge
like you know, forgive your mother or let go of this.
It's not easy. So what we do here and now,
(07:18):
so we do somatic experiencing where they cannotice their body.
They can take deep breaths very gently. They can notice
when they are going to have crisis and they can
notice when they can get better. So the somatic experiencing
in a way is helping them to learn how to
deal with the moments of crisis, to deal with the
(07:39):
moment when they are going to go into this process,
and that they can bring themselves out of it. Now
for completely healing, we actually use Family Constellations System therapy
and Family Consolation System therapy has what we call the
oders of love, orders of love, Goddess of love. Orders
(08:03):
of love are wonderful. Really, I love them. I think
I think it's a spiritual it's a path, spiritual path
because we talk the orders of love. As bet Hellinger,
who is the founder of Family Consolation System Therapy speak
or put it, these are the orders that are among us,
(08:25):
all that we can observe in the nature and among ourselves,
so that love can flow.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Mm hm.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
For the love to flow, one should earner reverence there
those who can be for them mother, father, ancestors and
so forth or even all this is reverencing, yeah, reverencing
so much. Yeah. And the second order. So when you
do that, the love flows and people feel very holistic,
(09:01):
they feel illed. And the second order of love is
that everybody has a right to belong and to belong
at the right place. It's a justice to make sure
that we let people belong. We allow people to belong,
and we also make sure we have our own rightful place.
(09:25):
Because when we allow everybody to belong, then love also flow.
When there's somebody excluded, love stops there where there's an exclusion,
So everybody has to be included to behold and then
the love flows. Yeah. So that is the second order
of love. And the third order of love is that
(09:48):
we will have to learn how to receive from our
parents and give to the world what we have been
given from our parents. We don't give it back to
the parents at all, because they're big, they have enough.
We give it to the world and the world give
(10:09):
it back to us. So now we create harmony of
balance between receiving and giving. Yeah. So when we use this,
this adult might have so much anger, so much frustration
with their mother because probably the mother had many children,
(10:29):
she had two, she had this child, and while she's
still breastfeeding, then another child comes, so the grandmother said,
come on this one, I can help you to raise. Well.
Of course the mother, the grandmother is doing a big service,
but the mother, the child is pulled out from the
mother before it's ready for that. So that's where the
(10:53):
big anxiety and pain and resentment comes in. And then
not create the asthma that because it's a shock to
the assistant and psychologically they already know what's going on
somehow and that's what's happened. So now you know, just
telling them you have to respect to your mother is
not enough. But if you begin to bring the awareness
(11:15):
of the orders of love and they actually do it,
like I have an example in the book of course
in the chapter I put there. So for example, if
you do that, you're asking your client, she said, no,
my mother what she did? She she didn't want to
keep me. No, I don't want to talk to her.
I don't want to see her. I'd rather stay with
(11:36):
my crisis with usma. Yeah, And then we just say, okay,
now according to these orders, if you do just do that,
if just let your head go down slowly, very gently,
there you go. Did you see there was a deeper breath.
It's akasing to that deeper breath immediately help them to
(11:58):
feel better in their life. So the breath comes in
when we allow our head to go down gently. And
this movement of going down is really what we call reverencing. Yeah,
like recognizing that they came before us. I have to
bend a little bit. So when they begin like that
(12:19):
and they feel read a feel good, they said, ah, okay,
well is that always Well we can begin with that
because they already feel good in their physiology, you see
what I mean. So they go, they go, they go down,
and then they feel really good. They say, Wow, maybe
(12:39):
I can stay like this all the time and from
this from this place, from this place, that's where they
actually feel like, Yes, I can say thank you to
my mother from that place, from that place.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Because part of the challenge I suspect and from people
I know with asthma, it's not known. A lot of
the time, people have no idea that there's any connection
to the past, to the mother, to feelings to overwhelm,
two things that happen as a child. And this is
what I find fascinating about the trauma workers. You're working
somatically with sensation and in the family constellations. You're working
(13:17):
with a system, a bigger system.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
A system. Yes, the orders, the orders, and now thank
you for bringing up the whole quest and all the
biggest system because then I'm helping them to connect with
the mother. But then they might say, no, I want
my grandmother. I said, no, okay, yeah, yeah, the grandma
that will come there, but let's let's put her in
the order, right, so you can imagine the mother is here,
(13:43):
you are here in a lower place. Why you're actually Benny,
and above you a little bit, this is your mother,
and above you there's Grandma. So you can actually feeling
them kind of blessing you, like like a waterfall coming
down and the air comes up in the nose. Much better. Really,
(14:05):
when people are in the crisis, they try to go
like this, right, they're looking for air to breathe. The
best way is to help them kind of let the
head come down slowly. But this is already reverencing in itself,
but also biologically, I don't know, anatomically, I think the
(14:26):
nose picks the air from down this, from this way,
from here to even lower. When you go up too much,
the air doesn't come into the nose. Yeah you can
try that, Yeah, yeah, try that and then go absolutely
and notice do you notice that? Yeah? It actually they
(14:47):
discovered this even with the with the COVID when some
most because in India I teach also in India, they
discover that they didn't have any more you call that
ventil you know, too many people. So for some reason
they discover that if they put the client like this,
(15:10):
the client had breathed better. If they you know, all
the patients, if they had them lying like this, the
clients had difficulties in breathing. So they were now putting
their clients like this, and they were able to sell
a lot of clients that way. Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, what I've seen and what you write about in
chapter eight of your book, and your book is called
Let's see Actually where did I write it down?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, are feeling trauma? Oh good, yes, ue trauma healing
trauma from family constellations or through family constellations and somantic experiencing.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yes, that's it exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Eight.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You talk about this example with Maria Jose Yes, and
how what your work is doing is it's not just
this movement, it's a whole system where you work with si.
With the individual, you did at least six sessions with her,
and then it seemed like she might have been ready,
and then you set her up in a group family
(16:22):
systems setting where you had her pick someone to represent
her mother, and there was a whole processes around that,
and so you're really combining the ancestral component the individual
trauma component.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, And.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
We're coming towards the end, and I wonder if there's
anything else you'd like to say, maybe how this combination
of work works for other symptoms, other illnesses as well.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yes, I mean I would say exactly, that's You're very right.
How we begin first with individual sessions where you can
talk to clients, you can touch, you can help them
what we call to have felt sense, to feel their
own body, to know how they're feeling. And that's why
those first sessions are really good to prepare them. And
(17:16):
then when they come to a public where there's a
group of people where they're picking up people to represent them,
that is a family consolation system therapy, and they just
actually they just sit and observe, yes, their own behavior
and their own what they have developed after trauma. And
(17:37):
then they can see the person representing them changing and
therefore some something in their courtical brain come into their awareness,
and then they change when they go back. Then if
their mother is a life or not. They're able to
do a little process to connect with their own mother
and then they start feeling better. Yeah, and this is
(18:00):
not only for the ASA, of course, particularly because asthma
is respiratory disease. I kind of mentioned that because breathing
is breathing in is life and mother is life. She's
the one who gave us life. I wanted to make
that connection. Yeah, and it's so beautiful. So when they
(18:22):
just begin to feel life alive and with lots of life,
when they can reverence the life that they were given,
and other diseases come into it really like cancer and mama,
you know the you know, mamma gland cancer, when you
come to that, it also has to do with the mother. Yeah,
(18:45):
that's another area we can talk about, but many of
them really we go into this place of reverencing and
then you have a community together and everybody Anyway, I
want to say this this last thing is they are important.
But solations systems there are. It's amazing. It is because
(19:07):
you know, you have a group of people fifteen twenty,
I don't know, in a room, one family constellation heals
everybody who is there and maybe beyond and those who
are not even there, because everybody that who belonged to
that system are healed, and the representative system are healed,
(19:29):
and those who are watching they also say, oh that's
for me. So it's a it's a method that is
healing the whole, the entire society. Yeah, that's very nice.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yes, yeah, thank you if thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Why don't you show your book again. There'll be a
link in.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
The notes in the show notes and links to your
website and a little more detail about your biography and
how you teach all over the world. Thank you so
so much.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yes, yes, yes, thank you, thank you very much and
I'm grateful me too. Yeah. Bye bye
Welcome to the special guest host series of the Trauma
Thevers podcast, where I'm going to be handing over the
mic to some incredible guest hosts. In each episode, you'll
hear fresh perspectives and unique insights to inform and inspire
you in all the while keeping the heart of this
podcast alive. So sit back and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello everyone, my name is Veronique Mead, and thank you
so much to Guy McPherson of the Trauma Therapist Project
for inviting us. I'm here with Euphrasier Niaki, who was
born and raised in Tanzania, and she is a faculty
(00:41):
who teaches somatic experiencing and also family constellations work IFU,
I am so glad to have you here with us today.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thank you so much, Veronique. When I read your message,
I was very happy that I was able to find
the time for you.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm glad too, Yeah, because you teach all around the
world and you've been in Brazil for the past thirty years.
You were co founder of a healing center called Afia Yes,
and I learned partly about your work. My own is
working with folks with chronic illness and the trauma connection
(01:26):
and what I really wanted you to share with us
today is your chapter in your book the kind of
work you do with asthma, and I'm thinking about adults
with asthma and the components of.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Work that you do. Thank you, yes, thank you very much, Vironiki,
I'll go right into this spot. Yeah, because I was
very when I was writing my book. I decided to
include asthma because it's something that I have worked with
(02:01):
with many people. So I had a good examples that
I could put in a book so that this will
be important to help people around. Yeah, So that was
the major reason to put this chapter in the book.
So I have encounter a lot of people, children or
adults that have asthma, and they're going to crisis a lot.
(02:27):
And when they go to crisis, actually when they have
something that reminds them of the trauma itself the encounter
and often time I will put it that way. Oftentimes
the people whether as children or adults, have asthma, they're
the people who had had trauma, developmental trauma, and they
(02:51):
were separated from their mother at some time. And actually
it's not just from the baby stage. For me, I
have learned more that those who are separated at a
certain age, for example, our a year and a year
and a half, Between a year and a year and
a half up to two years, this is the time
(03:13):
the child has already begin to understand, you to know
the mother. The mother is leaving, the mother is coming back.
And then of course when they are separated, there is
some kind of frustration and anger that coupled together fear, frustration, anger,
and that is it's like a shock trauma. And this
(03:35):
shock trauma shocked their system and especially the lungs because
when they cry, they're not able to take in the
air and that suffocates their lungs and they actually get
inflammation because that affects direct to their lungs and they
(03:56):
have inflammation. And so once they have that, that comes
back and back. Many times. It can be you know,
you can go to the hospital or to the hub
health posts and get some medication, but it doesn't heal
because you have to touch into the roots. Yeah, So
(04:17):
this in a way what I'm talking about here, This
in a way, it is a shock trauma at the
same time it is a developmental trauma. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
The timing is a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
The timing is a really.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, earlier, not Ellie like babies sometimes when okay, those
two were separated from their mothers at the baby stage,
like they're.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Just born and separated, they might have asthma, but it
heals more easily. Even the person who are that those
children will take them at the early stage, taking them
care of them. Here and Brazil, they take them to
the beach early morning and have that energy of the
salt and air. They really heals their asthma right away
(05:07):
because that comes from the sadness. But when they're in
that stage where they actually recognizing a little bit, my
mother did this to me, or my mother separated to me,
I don't, they get very confused because they cry so
much when they can see the mother moving away or
the grandmother taking them or the aunt taking them. Yeah,
(05:30):
and that is very painful for them. So that's sadness.
Sadness they cut down, they shut down the breathing process,
and therefore what happened to their lungs, You know, the
lungs are completely affected and therefore they remain like that.
And so every time they remember their mother or they
(05:50):
remember the episode, the dramatic episode, then they start having crisis. Yeah,
whoever is taking care of them, could do all the
less they can, but still doesn't hear because they need
to heal, they need the connection with their mothers. Yeah,
so when I receive these kind of people with asthma,
(06:12):
I don't take them during the crisis because during the
crisis just give them there. You know, we have tea
herbal teas. Here, we have mad therapy that worm their
their lungs and it's it's like your mama's your mother's
touch whatever because it's warm mad therapy. But then as
(06:32):
they get better, then we can actually work with them.
And what we do the most is to help them
to reconnect with their mother. So now since at that
age two two and a half years old, they they
are they create some kind of tantrum and a very
(06:57):
anger it's really anger and resent with their mother. Therefore,
it is very hard for them even to just advise
them that, you know, you know, like to just pridge
like you know, forgive your mother or let go of this.
It's not easy. So what we do here and now,
(07:18):
so we do somatic experiencing where they cannotice their body.
They can take deep breaths very gently. They can notice
when they are going to have crisis and they can
notice when they can get better. So the somatic experiencing
in a way is helping them to learn how to
deal with the moments of crisis, to deal with the
(07:39):
moment when they are going to go into this process,
and that they can bring themselves out of it. Now
for completely healing, we actually use Family Constellations System therapy
and Family Consolation System therapy has what we call the
oders of love, orders of love, Goddess of love. Orders
(08:03):
of love are wonderful. Really, I love them. I think
I think it's a spiritual it's a path, spiritual path
because we talk the orders of love. As bet Hellinger,
who is the founder of Family Consolation System Therapy speak
or put it, these are the orders that are among us,
(08:25):
all that we can observe in the nature and among ourselves,
so that love can flow.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Mm hm.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
For the love to flow, one should earner reverence there
those who can be for them mother, father, ancestors and
so forth or even all this is reverencing, yeah, reverencing
so much. Yeah. And the second order. So when you
do that, the love flows and people feel very holistic,
(09:01):
they feel illed. And the second order of love is
that everybody has a right to belong and to belong
at the right place. It's a justice to make sure
that we let people belong. We allow people to belong,
and we also make sure we have our own rightful place.
(09:25):
Because when we allow everybody to belong, then love also flow.
When there's somebody excluded, love stops there where there's an exclusion,
So everybody has to be included to behold and then
the love flows. Yeah. So that is the second order
of love. And the third order of love is that
(09:48):
we will have to learn how to receive from our
parents and give to the world what we have been
given from our parents. We don't give it back to
the parents at all, because they're big, they have enough.
We give it to the world and the world give
(10:09):
it back to us. So now we create harmony of
balance between receiving and giving. Yeah. So when we use this,
this adult might have so much anger, so much frustration
with their mother because probably the mother had many children,
(10:29):
she had two, she had this child, and while she's
still breastfeeding, then another child comes, so the grandmother said,
come on this one, I can help you to raise. Well.
Of course the mother, the grandmother is doing a big service,
but the mother, the child is pulled out from the
mother before it's ready for that. So that's where the
(10:53):
big anxiety and pain and resentment comes in. And then
not create the asthma that because it's a shock to
the assistant and psychologically they already know what's going on
somehow and that's what's happened. So now you know, just
telling them you have to respect to your mother is
not enough. But if you begin to bring the awareness
(11:15):
of the orders of love and they actually do it,
like I have an example in the book of course
in the chapter I put there. So for example, if
you do that, you're asking your client, she said, no,
my mother what she did? She she didn't want to
keep me. No, I don't want to talk to her.
I don't want to see her. I'd rather stay with
(11:36):
my crisis with usma. Yeah, And then we just say, okay,
now according to these orders, if you do just do that,
if just let your head go down slowly, very gently,
there you go. Did you see there was a deeper breath.
It's akasing to that deeper breath immediately help them to
(11:58):
feel better in their life. So the breath comes in
when we allow our head to go down gently. And
this movement of going down is really what we call reverencing. Yeah,
like recognizing that they came before us. I have to
bend a little bit. So when they begin like that
(12:19):
and they feel read a feel good, they said, ah, okay,
well is that always Well we can begin with that
because they already feel good in their physiology, you see
what I mean. So they go, they go, they go down,
and then they feel really good. They say, Wow, maybe
(12:39):
I can stay like this all the time and from
this from this place, from this place, that's where they
actually feel like, Yes, I can say thank you to
my mother from that place, from that place.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Because part of the challenge I suspect and from people
I know with asthma, it's not known. A lot of
the time, people have no idea that there's any connection
to the past, to the mother, to feelings to overwhelm,
two things that happen as a child. And this is
what I find fascinating about the trauma workers. You're working
somatically with sensation and in the family constellations. You're working
(13:17):
with a system, a bigger system.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
A system. Yes, the orders, the orders, and now thank
you for bringing up the whole quest and all the
biggest system because then I'm helping them to connect with
the mother. But then they might say, no, I want
my grandmother. I said, no, okay, yeah, yeah, the grandma
that will come there, but let's let's put her in
the order, right, so you can imagine the mother is here,
(13:43):
you are here in a lower place. Why you're actually Benny,
and above you a little bit, this is your mother,
and above you there's Grandma. So you can actually feeling
them kind of blessing you, like like a waterfall coming
down and the air comes up in the nose. Much better. Really,
(14:05):
when people are in the crisis, they try to go
like this, right, they're looking for air to breathe. The
best way is to help them kind of let the
head come down slowly. But this is already reverencing in itself,
but also biologically, I don't know, anatomically, I think the
(14:26):
nose picks the air from down this, from this way,
from here to even lower. When you go up too much,
the air doesn't come into the nose. Yeah you can
try that, Yeah, yeah, try that and then go absolutely
and notice do you notice that? Yeah? It actually they
(14:47):
discovered this even with the with the COVID when some
most because in India I teach also in India, they
discover that they didn't have any more you call that
ventil you know, too many people. So for some reason
they discover that if they put the client like this,
(15:10):
the client had breathed better. If they you know, all
the patients, if they had them lying like this, the
clients had difficulties in breathing. So they were now putting
their clients like this, and they were able to sell
a lot of clients that way. Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, what I've seen and what you write about in
chapter eight of your book, and your book is called
Let's see Actually where did I write it down?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, are feeling trauma? Oh good, yes, ue trauma healing
trauma from family constellations or through family constellations and somantic experiencing.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yes, that's it exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Eight.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You talk about this example with Maria Jose Yes, and
how what your work is doing is it's not just
this movement, it's a whole system where you work with si.
With the individual, you did at least six sessions with her,
and then it seemed like she might have been ready,
and then you set her up in a group family
(16:22):
systems setting where you had her pick someone to represent
her mother, and there was a whole processes around that,
and so you're really combining the ancestral component the individual
trauma component.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, And.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
We're coming towards the end, and I wonder if there's
anything else you'd like to say, maybe how this combination
of work works for other symptoms, other illnesses as well.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yes, I mean I would say exactly, that's You're very right.
How we begin first with individual sessions where you can
talk to clients, you can touch, you can help them
what we call to have felt sense, to feel their
own body, to know how they're feeling. And that's why
those first sessions are really good to prepare them. And
(17:16):
then when they come to a public where there's a
group of people where they're picking up people to represent them,
that is a family consolation system therapy, and they just
actually they just sit and observe, yes, their own behavior
and their own what they have developed after trauma. And
(17:37):
then they can see the person representing them changing and
therefore some something in their courtical brain come into their awareness,
and then they change when they go back. Then if
their mother is a life or not. They're able to
do a little process to connect with their own mother
and then they start feeling better. Yeah, and this is
(18:00):
not only for the ASA, of course, particularly because asthma
is respiratory disease. I kind of mentioned that because breathing
is breathing in is life and mother is life. She's
the one who gave us life. I wanted to make
that connection. Yeah, and it's so beautiful. So when they
(18:22):
just begin to feel life alive and with lots of life,
when they can reverence the life that they were given,
and other diseases come into it really like cancer and mama,
you know the you know, mamma gland cancer, when you
come to that, it also has to do with the mother. Yeah,
(18:45):
that's another area we can talk about, but many of
them really we go into this place of reverencing and
then you have a community together and everybody Anyway, I
want to say this this last thing is they are important.
But solations systems there are. It's amazing. It is because
(19:07):
you know, you have a group of people fifteen twenty,
I don't know, in a room, one family constellation heals
everybody who is there and maybe beyond and those who
are not even there, because everybody that who belonged to
that system are healed, and the representative system are healed,
(19:29):
and those who are watching they also say, oh that's
for me. So it's a it's a method that is
healing the whole, the entire society. Yeah, that's very nice.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yes, yeah, thank you if thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Why don't you show your book again. There'll be a
link in.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
The notes in the show notes and links to your
website and a little more detail about your biography and
how you teach all over the world. Thank you so
so much.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yes, yes, yes, thank you, thank you very much and
I'm grateful me too. Yeah. Bye bye
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