May 17, 2024 • 35 mins
In this inspiring episode of the Traveling Black Women Podcast, we delve into the world of female tour operators in Africa. This episode spotlights Mrs. Lynett Nakamanya, a pioneering tour operator in the East Africa region. Lynett stands out as one of the few women leading in this traditionally male-dominated industry. She joins us to share her unique experiences and insights, shedding light on the challenges and triumphs she has encountered along the way.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Traveling Black Woman podcast.
(00:13):
Today we are starting season three with an amazing guest who is a travel expert from
East Africa and she's actually been in the industry for eight years.
So we're going to hear a little bit from her about traveling around Africa as a solo black
woman and just what that looks like.
So Lynette, the floor is yours.
(00:33):
Thank you so much.
Hi everyone.
I'm very excited to be here.
My name is Lynette Nakamanya.
That's my botanical name.
I'm based out of Uganda, East Africa, and I've been in the tourism industry for the
past eight, nine years.
And I'm very excited to be here.
I'm very excited to be sharing.
My journey in the industry has been long, eventful, interesting, and I'm just looking
(01:01):
to learn more, to bring more women of color into the continent safely, to enjoy, to have
wellness, and I'm going to share more.
So that's basically a brief background about who I am.
I'm a tourism enthusiast, lover, and I grew in it, luckily, because I got a mentor when
I was still young.
(01:22):
So even as I had the passion for travel, I literally went to university and did a bachelor's
in tourism.
So I could understand the industry even better, service delivery, all that.
And then I had, of course, graduated in project management.
I could know how to handle clients and all the management business related to tourism.
I love that.
(01:43):
So this is not just like, oh, I woke up one day and decided to give people tours.
This is like, you really studied and put some intention behind creating a really good business
behind tourism.
Yeah, I'm glad I went to university to pursue the bachelor's after I had been in the industry
for eight months.
So even when I was in school, everything I studied made so much sense, you know, and
(02:07):
I'm glad I did because all the way I behave, the way I do my work, it's best of the passion
that I have, but then also the academic background and policies and structures that are infused
with the tourism industry.
So Girls Travel Africa, tell us about that.
(02:30):
So I know that is the company that you founded.
Okay.
So first of all, Africa in general is a very masculine continent.
So there's a lot of misogynism whereby, and it's what's in the tourism industry, where
they feel it's more of a male dominated space.
(02:51):
So even as I worked in the industry, I faced my own challenges as a woman, just being a
woman, you know, in challenges with work, but then even with relationships, because
a number of men would approach me and be like, okay, Lynette, maybe I'd like to marry you,
but you have to stop this traveling business, you know.
(03:12):
What?
Yes, not one, not two, not three, they were like four, five, and these are educated, so
that they are, you know, Asian or educated men.
So it showed me that one of the challenges that women face in Africa in the tourism industry,
(03:33):
you know, even my uncle sometimes make fun about it.
Like, for you, how do you run your home when you're traveling around?
Like does your husband allow you to go on those trips?
Like now that I'm married, they still make those jokes, you know, but because the society
we live in does not think this is a woman's space.
Wow.
(03:54):
Yeah.
So I faced those challenges and then I started interacting with other ladies who are facing
similar challenges, you know, not being taken seriously, being bullied, like low key bullies,
being bullied by the male counterparts, mainly our lady guides, you know, sometimes you're
in game drives and you see the men guides laugh at them or, you know, throw a few words
(04:19):
here and there that are not kind words, you know, they kind of make it like a joke, but
it's not the kindest kind of joke, you know.
And some would even prostrate me, it's like, oh, you can only do this for so long.
You're a woman, so you're going to retire early.
You know, I'm going to stay a guy for longer than you.
You know, so we, I saw that and these are literally things I've seen when I've been
(04:45):
on the road.
Yeah.
You know, and even some service providers, even some tour companies do not employ the
female guides.
You know, some people who own safari vehicles, because most of the safari business that we
do, we hire out, so we outsource.
So if I have a group of clients coming in, I'll outsource the safari cars to use, I'll
(05:07):
outsource, I'll book a hotel, they'll only sign me my properties.
And some owners of safari vehicles will be like, I can't give my casual guy a girl, a
female guide, you know, yet they're really skilled.
So some of them are not given business just because they're ladies, you know, and because
I have seen myself as a woman, I was like, no, this needs to change.
(05:32):
You know, so I founded Girls Travel Africa, first to give an opportunity to the female
ladies in the industry to get employment.
But then also, there had been a number of cases with many people, I had realized very
many people of color don't travel within Africa.
You know, I follow very many ladies of color who travel around the world, solo travelers,
(05:55):
but they're usually in Europe, Asia, maybe a bit of Philippines, and hardly are they
in Africa.
But why is this?
One, there is lack of information, they do not know what am I going to do in Africa.
Then there's a bit of fear of myself in Africa, you know, who is going to be my guide is going
to take me around and then they're like, okay, this gentleman, a gentleman.
(06:16):
Okay.
Okay.
You know, so there's a bit of that insecurity.
So like, okay, what about if we create a community of ladies traveling within Africa and being
led by fellow ladies?
You know, they're working predominantly with ladies and even some lodges that we book are
(06:38):
owned or operated by mainly, mainly ladies, you know.
So that's how Girls Travel Africa came into existence.
Just for me to encourage more women of color to travel within Africa, but then also giving
them service providers who are ladies who are also giving employment and empowerment
while they do their great job.
(06:58):
I absolutely love that because you're right, that is one of the things that people are
not certain of, especially women who like to travel by themselves, the safety.
That's always the biggest question.
Is it safe?
We have to be a little bit more cautious.
So knowing that a company like yours exists is like, okay, that cuts half of the fair
(07:18):
in half right there.
So let me ask you this question.
Are you only based in Uganda?
Or do you do several different countries within East Africa or where do you work mostly?
Yes.
So I'm currently situated in Uganda, but I do trips in Tanzania.
I do trips in Zanzibar and then I do trips in the Victoria Falls, Victoria Falls.
(07:43):
That's it's like, it's like a magic three countries.
So that area where there's always one.
So I usually take my ladies there, you know, and we do maybe seven days, 10 days, 15 days
around that area.
What should black women know about the wellness there?
Like what can they experience when you said you take ladies there?
What is the experience like for them?
I specialize mainly in wellness trips.
(08:04):
So I would want to encourage women to come to Africa, to explore Africa, but because
I'm also a woman and I know sometimes most of the women that I interact with or I work
with or I handle, most of them are like corporate women.
Some of them are mothers, so they are juggling work life and even personal life or even children.
(08:26):
So they are extremely stressed or overwhelmed with life in general.
So I do a lot of wellness trips, which encourage women to just relax.
So these are basically not your ordinary safaris, which are back to back, you're going from
here to here.
This activity is activity.
So it's more slow pace.
If you want to do a wellness trip in Africa, in Uganda, you know, we're taking you to
(08:50):
culture villages, spending a day there, see, immersing yourself with the culture, but then
also sleeping in, relaxing.
We do, we give all our clients journals, tassamais journals, which guide them to meditate, you
know, to journal, to write down their thoughts, their feelings.
Some of them who even want yoga, we get a yoga instructor who just leads them through
(09:13):
the process of their life.
They're eating healthy foods, organic foods, relaxing, relaxing.
Yeah.
And so by the time they go back home, they're rejuvenated, their soul is revived, they're
happier, because if they're happier, they're going to show up even more present in their
families, in their world.
Right.
Right.
Women even feel lost.
Yeah.
(09:34):
So when they come to Africa, they rediscover themselves.
So that's what we really aim for with Girls Travel Africa.
So we can do those, we do different packages.
We do like sand kiss and soul nourish.
So this is like a six day trip in Zanzibar, where you spend four days literally just basking
(09:56):
at the beach.
Yeah.
You know, maybe doing a little bit of tennis if you want to do some tennis or a bit of
yoga, if you wish.
Yeah.
Otherwise, you just look at the ocean, listen to the waves, relax and breathe.
I love that.
Because I think, you know, the narrative right now, when anybody thinks about going to Africa,
(10:17):
it is safari, especially East Africa, is going on a safari, you know, but not always wellness.
We don't speak about that enough.
For my 40th birthday, I went to Mozambique, to Valenculo's.
And that was the exact everything that you just described.
That's what I experienced.
There was no safari.
Like everything was just we're by the beach, we're relaxing, we go to the town, we kind
(10:40):
of walk around the market.
It was beautiful.
And I was just like, ah, this is the life, you know, and everyone was so relaxed, such
a warm and fuzzy feeling.
And I went with 10 people and all of them felt the same way for like a whole maybe month
after that, everyone just felt so rejuvenated being there.
But that's you.
That's not the norm when you think of going to Africa, you think of the East Coast, you
(11:04):
know, going to safaris, you know, Masamara, Serengeti.
And then you think of, well, most of the time when I hear of Nigeria and Ghana, then I'm
also hearing about the historical trek and the, you know, or the parties for New Year's,
the Afro-Tel and all of that.
So everything is very go, go, go.
But you don't always hear the narrative of this is also a place that you can come and
(11:26):
just be still.
So I love that.
Yes, I love that.
And Africa is the best place to relax.
Yeah.
We have all these tropical forests, so you can just go for a nature walk and do maybe
some forest bathing and just, you know, look at, listen to the birds chattering.
Yeah.
Listen to the waves.
Enjoy the fresh breeze of oxygen.
(11:48):
You know, these are things I personally encounter in my life.
Sometimes when my window is open at home, I'm like, wow, this land is so fresh.
Yeah.
So it just encourages the calmness, the genuineness, all that.
Yeah.
Oh man.
I love to hear that because that adds a new storyline that I think we need to hear more
(12:13):
of.
So what are some tips that people should know in order to find those wellness opportunities?
Okay.
So first of all, it's important for any person who would like to come for a wellness trip
to Africa to know what do they consider wellness.
You see some people's concept of wellness is just being at that really nice lager resort
(12:34):
and sleeping in, you know, going for breakfast, sleep, lunch, sleep, you know.
Yeah.
And some people's concept of wellness is to immerse themselves into the culture of a community.
You know, they maybe see how food is prepared.
They do the peeling.
They go to the garden.
They see different herbs.
They smell them.
You know, they sit down on the floor and they're eating a really nice organic meal.
(12:57):
That's what the concept of wellness is.
Some people's concept of wellness is maybe trekking, you know, doing hiking, like maybe
doing a small hiking of some of the small mountains we have.
So they relax and then they do a small mountain and then they come back and just do a spart
of it so if you know what your ideal wellness package would look like, it helps you.
(13:24):
That makes sense.
Whether it's going to be a service provider to give you that this because we have so much
to offer as Africa.
And also something to note that most tour operators in Africa, they think a trip is
a safari.
So you talk to a tour operator and you want to do a wellness trip and they're like, okay,
let's do Serengeti and you shall fly you over to Maasai Mara.
(13:47):
Then you do the safari and you see the vibration and you're like, no, I want to relax.
Yeah.
Also because trips to Africa are a bit expensive, the tickets are usually high.
So some, usually I encourage my clients to maybe do 15 days, 14 days.
So they have, you know, six, seven days of those days purely for wellness and then other
(14:13):
half of, you know, a bit of exploration because even when you're coming for a wellness trip,
you don't want to go back without seeing a bit of safari.
You know, that.
Okay.
Yeah.
They blend them up.
Okay.
Yeah.
But I think first it's important for the people to know exactly what their idea of wellness
is.
(14:34):
Is it Zanzibar?
Kind of, you know, white sands and water waves and that kind of experience.
Yeah.
Is it a tropical forest?
You know, we are tracking.
Yeah.
Is it culture?
Yeah.
You know, drumming and eating organic food because in Uganda we have food, fresh foods
(14:55):
throughout the year and the weather is beautiful.
Like it's basically within 25 degrees throughout the year, average.
Yeah.
You know, and we have fresh fruits and vegetables on the market throughout the year.
So even just going to the markets and seeing how the real Ugandan people live, you know,
(15:16):
testing the fresh tomatoes, the bananas, everything.
Like I have someone around Africa and I would honestly say Uganda has the best food.
Really?
The best food.
That is hand down, you know.
I've been to Zanzibar.
I've been to Zanzibar, Zambia, Botswana.
I've been to South Africa.
(15:38):
I've seen a variety and quality of food as what is here.
Really?
Okay.
So that is like a fact.
Like even if you have had, because we have had people even from, we had some sample from
Saudi Arabia who came through and they're like, we've been traveling and we have been
(15:59):
to the Bahamas and we've been here and we're like, okay, just test our foods.
And they're like, oh my God, this pineapple.
What is this?
Is this real?
You know?
So yeah, it's crazy.
Really?
Because I love, that's one of the things that I love most about travel.
I think with food, you can find so many different pieces of culture, you know, when people talk
(16:23):
about why they use certain foods, like what foods are for celebrations, what foods are,
you know, what foods are organic, what food, how they prepare the food.
And it's always so much love and family and community around food.
What is a signature dish in Uganda?
Okay.
So first of all, Uganda has over 56 tribes and every tribe has a dish.
(16:47):
Ah, okay.
And the tribe has different food and sauce.
Okay.
But the main common one is the one in the center.
So that is, they call it luombo.
So they get, it could be gnat, it could be chicken, it could be beef.
They wrap it in banana, in banana leaves and they steam it from the banana leaf.
(17:09):
You know, so they serve, they literally, when they're serving you, they give you a banana.
It's usually like almost like pot shaped banana leaf, which they hand you and you eat.
Usually with matoka, we have pumpkins, we have sweet potatoes, we have yams, we have
Irish potatoes.
So all those are the stache.
Then you have pasava.
(17:30):
So all those are just different types of stache foods that we have, okabs.
Yeah.
And then we also have millet.
So this is for the central and then the west, they do a lot of millet, millet bread.
So they do millet bread with ishabo.
Ishabo is basically a milk substance.
(17:53):
So in the west, they are cattle keepers.
So they do a lot of milk.
So they have ishabo where they use some type of salt.
They sprinkle it in the milk and it forms some thick kind of texture.
That is for the west.
And then in the east, they have what they call malewa, which is bamboo.
So they get young bamboo leaves, roots, and they pound them and dry them.
(18:19):
So they actually look like smoked fish and they cook that with ground nuts.
That is bamboo.
And in the north, they do peanuts with different leaves.
So they have what they call bo, they have what they call maracua.
Then they do a lot of shea, shea butter.
(18:40):
So they have a sauce which they literally make out of shea butter and chickpea.
So they get chickpea, they mash it up, and then they mix it with shea butter, with shea
oil.
And that's what they use.
That's the sauce.
It's actually very nice.
Yeah, I've had that.
Really?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
(19:00):
All right.
So now I know what to try.
What's your favorite?
What's your special like dish?
Your favorite dish?
It's crazy.
So my culture is the baganda.
So mine is the one with the banana leaf.
But my favorite is the one for the north.
The one which is the peanuts with the, that's my best.
It's from the north.
And these people are like, how do you eat the millet bread?
(19:24):
Because most people, they say you don't eat millet bread, but I love it.
It's my best.
Really?
Yeah.
And it's very nutritious.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Oh, wow.
That's so amazing.
Okay.
So that's something that I need to keep in mind because I love to eat and I love to eat
different types of food.
Food has so much love connected to it, at least in my opinion, like from my perception.
There's so much, yes, history and you know, so I just, I love it.
(19:49):
I love it.
So what's something else you would want women to know about traveling through Africa?
Okay.
I would love to give them five tips.
One, first of all, it's important for them to at least have a guide the past two, three
days.
Okay.
(20:10):
Most parts of Africa, unlike Europe and Australia and maybe the US, we don't have a very straightforward
structure.
Like maybe you get to the airport, there is a train which will take you to the city.
So at least for the past two or three days, it's important to have a guide who at least
(20:30):
you can do with until you get fully grounded to the environment, the structures around
the currency, the difference, the differences in the environment.
And two, it would be important for people to carry out research about the cultural differences
or society setups because the fact that these are women of color in Africa, they, when they
(21:01):
see a woman of color, they will think you are a native.
So they would expect you to behave a particular way.
Okay.
And then it's because, oh, the third thing is they have to know that in Africa, most
countries see a tourist as a white person.
Okay.
They think a tourist can be a person of color.
(21:23):
Yeah.
You know, and that goes back to number two, which I was talking about understanding the
cultures because when they see a woman of color, they'll not be expecting it to dress
up a particular way, even though you are a tourist, because they would think you are
a local.
Yeah.
And they would not even actually slap, there'll be a bit of a roughness in some areas, mainly
(21:44):
into a crowded area.
And these are things I test myself.
You know, when I was in Zambia, I remember I put on some really short shorts.
Yeah.
And when I was moving through the stone town, the one was very kind.
They would make some sounds which would make you uncomfortable, you know.
And yet when white women, because I had become white friends, they would pass and it was
(22:08):
like, yeah.
So there's a bit of that difference.
Interesting.
That's good to know.
Yeah.
And then four, it's important for them to understand that they'll be treated differently
in most places.
Okay.
And this could be different in a positive light or negative light.
(22:29):
Okay.
And there are some places where they, even in Uganda, where you might go as a tourist
of color and you might not be fully welcomed, you know.
Those are some like the really, really rural areas where they would be like, so in case
(22:50):
you are moving with people, white people, most of the time they're going to think the
white person is funding everything.
Ah, okay.
If you're moving with men in a group and maybe you're buying something, most times the traders
will think that men are paying for everything because it's still a meticulous society.
(23:10):
Yeah.
You know.
So really would they think the woman is in charge or the woman has more money?
You know, if you're in a group with white people, sometimes you might try to serve the
white person before you.
So some of the small things are still there.
Okay.
And that's one of the reasons why I really want to have more women travel within Africa
(23:30):
because most of the tour operators, even in Africa, they think a tourist is a white person.
Like you can't, like, that is just like a real crazy mindset that they've had over the
years.
Wow.
Wow.
And you know what that is?
Is there anything like, is there anything or any conversations where people are trying
to disrupt that thought or trying to change the mindset of saying, Hey, there's a lot
(23:53):
of black Americans now traveling, you know, throughout the, I mean, even black Africans
is traveling throughout Africa.
You know, are people starting to understand the difference?
They are starting to a lot, a lot, a lot.
They are because example, Ugandans, very many Ugandans are now traveling to the post Zanzibar.
(24:15):
So in Zanzibar, there are very many people of color who travel there.
So there it's not so, there's not much.
Treatment of this one differently than the other one in most places.
Cause at least I've seen that in Mombasa, the same thing at the coast, because we have
seen very many Ugandans traveling there and very many people that say traveling vice versa.
(24:37):
And also because different countries are promoting regional tourism.
So we have more people traveling around.
Yes.
Okay.
So the, the, the narrative is changing, but some people, cause I even see it in different
exports where maybe you go out there hosted by maybe in Zambia and you're hosted by, you
(25:00):
know, and there may be some three white posted buyers.
You'd find people going towards them thinking they have no business than you.
So there is that because the trade industry has been labeled as a white person place.
And that's one of the reasons why I requested to be on as many podcasts as I can because
(25:21):
I want to share as much information to see more people of color come to Africa.
Because until you come, people are always going to think the tourism industry or products
are for the whites.
You know, that's right.
That's right.
And then lastly, yeah, I wanted to share a last tip for people who want to travel in
Africa to buy their tickets at least a year or six months in advance.
(25:45):
Tickets become very expensive.
So they're really expensive, but something the price that was over as the days come closer.
So if they're planning to visit a place or is good to have their ticket at least secured
so they can get it at a good price.
Okay.
That's good to know.
That's really good to know.
You know, what I think is really interesting is just the concept of how the color of tourism
(26:08):
is changing and how that even affects Africa.
So to hear you say that, you know, tourism has always just been a white industry, that's
so true.
And the best way to disrupt that narrative is with our physical presence.
So I really love what you're doing.
I love what you're doing.
Now, how can people contact you specifically?
(26:30):
Yeah, they could share it.
They could send me an email.
I can share two of my emails.
I'll share them with you.
My personal email, which I've been using, which is vnet.
They could already share.
I'm very active on my Instagram, which is Linnet, underscore, lax travel.
(26:51):
Okay.
And also my Instagram page, which is girls travel Africa, the community, they will send
a message there.
But then also if you would like to, if it's a long message and they want to be elaborate,
they could send an email at info at girls travel Africa.com.
I'm really grateful for this conversation.
(27:13):
Like you sent me an email and said, Hey, Tammy, your podcast.
And I was like, okay, yeah, sure.
You know, let me, let me see some information.
Let me see what she's about.
And I was like, Oh, this sounds interesting.
But hearing directly from you today, I'm like, Oh, this is what we need more of.
You know, we need more people just saying, Hey, the narrative has been this way for a
(27:34):
long time and it doesn't need to be that way anymore.
And how can I change it?
So I thank you for the work that you're doing.
Yeah.
Any final thoughts that you would love to share?
I'd like to know more about you.
How did you start this podcast?
Why did you put that?
So I had a series back in 2020, 2020, maybe call voices from the diaspora and it was just
(28:01):
the IG live.
I did one per week for during the month of February, because that's black history month
here.
And I did that in thinking like, I wanted us to connect more.
Right?
Like there's always people talking about, this is what Africans do.
This is what Americans do.
But no one's ever talking to each other.
And I don't like that because it's just like my family's from Trinidad and we have a whole
(28:23):
different way of doing things than my family in America.
So there's always these different things that people grow up around, people experience,
but we never really talk to each other, but we spend a lot of time talking about each
other.
So I did that and I was thinking, this will be really cool.
And I really enjoyed it.
(28:44):
So I had in the back of my mind that I wanted to do a podcast where I would just kind of
talk about travel, but then have an opportunity to connect with different people.
The first co-host, she was from the UK and then the second person that was on or the
second person that interviews, she was from Canada.
So just hearing different black women from different places, I thought would be amazing.
(29:06):
And I was really nervous for a while.
So I didn't start until 2023, last year, January, 2023.
I was like, there's so many podcasts out there.
No one's going to want to listen.
And I was pleasantly surprised.
People really listened in, they asked questions.
And I think the biggest difference was you were able to hear different voices.
(29:30):
So you were able to hear the black Trinidadian American girl who lives in Atlanta talking
to a black British Trinidadian girl who lives in the UK, who then was talking to a black
Canadian Trinidadian lady who lives in Canada.
You know, I'm all, no, she lives in North Carolina now.
(29:52):
So you're seeing all these black people, all these black women from all these different
places just coming together and having conversations.
Black German traveler, for example, she's from Angola, but she grew up in Germany.
And she talks about her experience there and you know, how she wanted to just kind of create
a space where someone who was black and lived in Germany or from Germany traveled.
(30:16):
And she couldn't find it.
So she created that space, you know, and now she's pretty popular on Instagram.
So all of these different things, I just want black women to see each other as like, hey,
we are, we're family, you know, we can connect.
We have all these things that are more similar about us and different, you know, no matter
what part of the world we're in.
(30:37):
You know, that's why I'm just like the reason or the motivation for you starting Girls Travel
Africa is so beautiful to me because that is exactly aligning with why traveling black
women exists.
Like we have to be there.
We have to be physically present.
So people know like, hey, we're here.
We have much of the same fears, much of the same desires, much of the same, you know,
(30:58):
concerns in life.
So that was definitely my motivation.
I wanted to hear the voices.
I wanted to see the smiles, you know, it just feels good to have those conversations.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
So that's me.
I'm a little cheesy, you know, but that's me.
(31:19):
I just want to I just want to connect us.
I think we're more powerful together than.
Yes, actually, I was going to say that we're more powerful when you're connected.
We get to learn from each other.
Then we get to rewrite our stories.
No one writes them for us.
Right.
So we're like working with women.
You work with people who have seen life in a closer light than like you are, you know,
(31:45):
some of the challenges I have faced, I have seen other women face the same challenges,
you know, it could be miles apart, it could be the US, it could be in Africa, it could
be in Uganda.
But at the end of the day, some of the challenges start across some of the.
Yes.
Like the desires start across like wellness.
And sometimes very many women get lost with life, you know, they feel like, yeah, maybe
(32:07):
they see their.
Yeah.
Interpret who they are, maybe in the eyes of their husband or in the eyes of their children,
in the eyes of their wife, for those who don't have families still, because sometimes people
think, oh, you're not married or you have the children.
You are OK.
You're free.
But they are also stressed and they just want a break and they want permission to relax
(32:31):
and do nothing.
And sometimes the society does not give it to them.
That's so true.
So, so true.
And I mean, and it's worldwide.
So to know that, you know, that it's the same thing.
It's almost everywhere.
You know, you're here.
It's the same exact thing.
Either you're you're always somebody, something, somebody's employee, someone's wife, someone's
(32:53):
mother, and you don't have the opportunity to just be you, you know.
So yeah, yeah.
And I think that's one of the things that travel also does for women is that it gives
you the opportunity to see like the world is so much bigger than whatever it is that
people are telling you you have to be.
People are telling you, oh, you have to find a husband.
You have to.
(33:14):
You have to have children.
You have to do this.
You have to do that.
And it's just like, but there's this big world out here.
I want to go see that.
And I want to go experience that.
And then once you do, you could still have all those things.
You could still have the husband.
You could still have the kids.
You could still have the great job.
But now you know that life is much bigger than that.
So you can take a break when you want to.
You can do things a little bit differently, you know, than you've been doing them in the
(33:37):
past or that people before you have been doing them because you've seen it in other cultures.
You know, there's so much that you can gain from being able to just, oh, there's more.
OK.
Yes.
Yes.
Explore.
Right.
Right.
This is an amazing conversation.
I am so happy.
(33:58):
I'm so happy to have talked to you today.
Me too.
Thank you for sticking it out when the internet was being funny.
No problem.
I'm so worried that every time I kept looking for that, oh, my gosh, you sent me an email
and tell it's risk.
Can you?
You're welcome.
Thank you as well for bearing with me also, because I was like, we're going to figure
(34:22):
this out.
We're going to figure this out.
And we figured it out.
And we were able to have an amazing combo.
So Annette, thank you so much for chatting with me today.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
Me too.
So you all, thank you all for tuning in.
Annette, like she said, you can get to her info at girls travel Africa dot com.
(34:47):
It's probably the easiest way to get to her.
So if you're looking at planning a trip to Uganda or any place, East Africa, and you're
like, you know what?
I want to make sure that it's safe.
I want to make sure that I'm around women who know how to plan, who know how to put
together a great tour and who specialize in wellness.
(35:08):
She's your girl.
All right.
Thank you guys for tuning in and have a great evening or daytime, whatever time you're listening
to this.
Bye bye.
Bye.
All around the beach.
All around the beach.
Hello and welcome back to the Traveling Black Woman podcast.
(00:13):
Today we are starting season three with an amazing guest who is a travel expert from
East Africa and she's actually been in the industry for eight years.
So we're going to hear a little bit from her about traveling around Africa as a solo black
woman and just what that looks like.
So Lynette, the floor is yours.
(00:33):
Thank you so much.
Hi everyone.
I'm very excited to be here.
My name is Lynette Nakamanya.
That's my botanical name.
I'm based out of Uganda, East Africa, and I've been in the tourism industry for the
past eight, nine years.
And I'm very excited to be here.
I'm very excited to be sharing.
My journey in the industry has been long, eventful, interesting, and I'm just looking
(01:01):
to learn more, to bring more women of color into the continent safely, to enjoy, to have
wellness, and I'm going to share more.
So that's basically a brief background about who I am.
I'm a tourism enthusiast, lover, and I grew in it, luckily, because I got a mentor when
I was still young.
(01:22):
So even as I had the passion for travel, I literally went to university and did a bachelor's
in tourism.
So I could understand the industry even better, service delivery, all that.
And then I had, of course, graduated in project management.
I could know how to handle clients and all the management business related to tourism.
I love that.
(01:43):
So this is not just like, oh, I woke up one day and decided to give people tours.
This is like, you really studied and put some intention behind creating a really good business
behind tourism.
Yeah, I'm glad I went to university to pursue the bachelor's after I had been in the industry
for eight months.
So even when I was in school, everything I studied made so much sense, you know, and
(02:07):
I'm glad I did because all the way I behave, the way I do my work, it's best of the passion
that I have, but then also the academic background and policies and structures that are infused
with the tourism industry.
So Girls Travel Africa, tell us about that.
(02:30):
So I know that is the company that you founded.
Okay.
So first of all, Africa in general is a very masculine continent.
So there's a lot of misogynism whereby, and it's what's in the tourism industry, where
they feel it's more of a male dominated space.
(02:51):
So even as I worked in the industry, I faced my own challenges as a woman, just being a
woman, you know, in challenges with work, but then even with relationships, because
a number of men would approach me and be like, okay, Lynette, maybe I'd like to marry you,
but you have to stop this traveling business, you know.
(03:12):
What?
Yes, not one, not two, not three, they were like four, five, and these are educated, so
that they are, you know, Asian or educated men.
So it showed me that one of the challenges that women face in Africa in the tourism industry,
(03:33):
you know, even my uncle sometimes make fun about it.
Like, for you, how do you run your home when you're traveling around?
Like does your husband allow you to go on those trips?
Like now that I'm married, they still make those jokes, you know, but because the society
we live in does not think this is a woman's space.
Wow.
(03:54):
Yeah.
So I faced those challenges and then I started interacting with other ladies who are facing
similar challenges, you know, not being taken seriously, being bullied, like low key bullies,
being bullied by the male counterparts, mainly our lady guides, you know, sometimes you're
in game drives and you see the men guides laugh at them or, you know, throw a few words
(04:19):
here and there that are not kind words, you know, they kind of make it like a joke, but
it's not the kindest kind of joke, you know.
And some would even prostrate me, it's like, oh, you can only do this for so long.
You're a woman, so you're going to retire early.
You know, I'm going to stay a guy for longer than you.
You know, so we, I saw that and these are literally things I've seen when I've been
(04:45):
on the road.
Yeah.
You know, and even some service providers, even some tour companies do not employ the
female guides.
You know, some people who own safari vehicles, because most of the safari business that we
do, we hire out, so we outsource.
So if I have a group of clients coming in, I'll outsource the safari cars to use, I'll
(05:07):
outsource, I'll book a hotel, they'll only sign me my properties.
And some owners of safari vehicles will be like, I can't give my casual guy a girl, a
female guide, you know, yet they're really skilled.
So some of them are not given business just because they're ladies, you know, and because
I have seen myself as a woman, I was like, no, this needs to change.
(05:32):
You know, so I founded Girls Travel Africa, first to give an opportunity to the female
ladies in the industry to get employment.
But then also, there had been a number of cases with many people, I had realized very
many people of color don't travel within Africa.
You know, I follow very many ladies of color who travel around the world, solo travelers,
(05:55):
but they're usually in Europe, Asia, maybe a bit of Philippines, and hardly are they
in Africa.
But why is this?
One, there is lack of information, they do not know what am I going to do in Africa.
Then there's a bit of fear of myself in Africa, you know, who is going to be my guide is going
to take me around and then they're like, okay, this gentleman, a gentleman.
(06:16):
Okay.
Okay.
You know, so there's a bit of that insecurity.
So like, okay, what about if we create a community of ladies traveling within Africa and being
led by fellow ladies?
You know, they're working predominantly with ladies and even some lodges that we book are
(06:38):
owned or operated by mainly, mainly ladies, you know.
So that's how Girls Travel Africa came into existence.
Just for me to encourage more women of color to travel within Africa, but then also giving
them service providers who are ladies who are also giving employment and empowerment
while they do their great job.
(06:58):
I absolutely love that because you're right, that is one of the things that people are
not certain of, especially women who like to travel by themselves, the safety.
That's always the biggest question.
Is it safe?
We have to be a little bit more cautious.
So knowing that a company like yours exists is like, okay, that cuts half of the fair
(07:18):
in half right there.
So let me ask you this question.
Are you only based in Uganda?
Or do you do several different countries within East Africa or where do you work mostly?
Yes.
So I'm currently situated in Uganda, but I do trips in Tanzania.
I do trips in Zanzibar and then I do trips in the Victoria Falls, Victoria Falls.
(07:43):
That's it's like, it's like a magic three countries.
So that area where there's always one.
So I usually take my ladies there, you know, and we do maybe seven days, 10 days, 15 days
around that area.
What should black women know about the wellness there?
Like what can they experience when you said you take ladies there?
What is the experience like for them?
I specialize mainly in wellness trips.
(08:04):
So I would want to encourage women to come to Africa, to explore Africa, but because
I'm also a woman and I know sometimes most of the women that I interact with or I work
with or I handle, most of them are like corporate women.
Some of them are mothers, so they are juggling work life and even personal life or even children.
(08:26):
So they are extremely stressed or overwhelmed with life in general.
So I do a lot of wellness trips, which encourage women to just relax.
So these are basically not your ordinary safaris, which are back to back, you're going from
here to here.
This activity is activity.
So it's more slow pace.
If you want to do a wellness trip in Africa, in Uganda, you know, we're taking you to
(08:50):
culture villages, spending a day there, see, immersing yourself with the culture, but then
also sleeping in, relaxing.
We do, we give all our clients journals, tassamais journals, which guide them to meditate, you
know, to journal, to write down their thoughts, their feelings.
Some of them who even want yoga, we get a yoga instructor who just leads them through
(09:13):
the process of their life.
They're eating healthy foods, organic foods, relaxing, relaxing.
Yeah.
And so by the time they go back home, they're rejuvenated, their soul is revived, they're
happier, because if they're happier, they're going to show up even more present in their
families, in their world.
Right.
Right.
Women even feel lost.
Yeah.
(09:34):
So when they come to Africa, they rediscover themselves.
So that's what we really aim for with Girls Travel Africa.
So we can do those, we do different packages.
We do like sand kiss and soul nourish.
So this is like a six day trip in Zanzibar, where you spend four days literally just basking
(09:56):
at the beach.
Yeah.
You know, maybe doing a little bit of tennis if you want to do some tennis or a bit of
yoga, if you wish.
Yeah.
Otherwise, you just look at the ocean, listen to the waves, relax and breathe.
I love that.
Because I think, you know, the narrative right now, when anybody thinks about going to Africa,
(10:17):
it is safari, especially East Africa, is going on a safari, you know, but not always wellness.
We don't speak about that enough.
For my 40th birthday, I went to Mozambique, to Valenculo's.
And that was the exact everything that you just described.
That's what I experienced.
There was no safari.
Like everything was just we're by the beach, we're relaxing, we go to the town, we kind
(10:40):
of walk around the market.
It was beautiful.
And I was just like, ah, this is the life, you know, and everyone was so relaxed, such
a warm and fuzzy feeling.
And I went with 10 people and all of them felt the same way for like a whole maybe month
after that, everyone just felt so rejuvenated being there.
But that's you.
That's not the norm when you think of going to Africa, you think of the East Coast, you
(11:04):
know, going to safaris, you know, Masamara, Serengeti.
And then you think of, well, most of the time when I hear of Nigeria and Ghana, then I'm
also hearing about the historical trek and the, you know, or the parties for New Year's,
the Afro-Tel and all of that.
So everything is very go, go, go.
But you don't always hear the narrative of this is also a place that you can come and
(11:26):
just be still.
So I love that.
Yes, I love that.
And Africa is the best place to relax.
Yeah.
We have all these tropical forests, so you can just go for a nature walk and do maybe
some forest bathing and just, you know, look at, listen to the birds chattering.
Yeah.
Listen to the waves.
Enjoy the fresh breeze of oxygen.
(11:48):
You know, these are things I personally encounter in my life.
Sometimes when my window is open at home, I'm like, wow, this land is so fresh.
Yeah.
So it just encourages the calmness, the genuineness, all that.
Yeah.
Oh man.
I love to hear that because that adds a new storyline that I think we need to hear more
(12:13):
of.
So what are some tips that people should know in order to find those wellness opportunities?
Okay.
So first of all, it's important for any person who would like to come for a wellness trip
to Africa to know what do they consider wellness.
You see some people's concept of wellness is just being at that really nice lager resort
(12:34):
and sleeping in, you know, going for breakfast, sleep, lunch, sleep, you know.
Yeah.
And some people's concept of wellness is to immerse themselves into the culture of a community.
You know, they maybe see how food is prepared.
They do the peeling.
They go to the garden.
They see different herbs.
They smell them.
You know, they sit down on the floor and they're eating a really nice organic meal.
(12:57):
That's what the concept of wellness is.
Some people's concept of wellness is maybe trekking, you know, doing hiking, like maybe
doing a small hiking of some of the small mountains we have.
So they relax and then they do a small mountain and then they come back and just do a spart
of it so if you know what your ideal wellness package would look like, it helps you.
(13:24):
That makes sense.
Whether it's going to be a service provider to give you that this because we have so much
to offer as Africa.
And also something to note that most tour operators in Africa, they think a trip is
a safari.
So you talk to a tour operator and you want to do a wellness trip and they're like, okay,
let's do Serengeti and you shall fly you over to Maasai Mara.
(13:47):
Then you do the safari and you see the vibration and you're like, no, I want to relax.
Yeah.
Also because trips to Africa are a bit expensive, the tickets are usually high.
So some, usually I encourage my clients to maybe do 15 days, 14 days.
So they have, you know, six, seven days of those days purely for wellness and then other
(14:13):
half of, you know, a bit of exploration because even when you're coming for a wellness trip,
you don't want to go back without seeing a bit of safari.
You know, that.
Okay.
Yeah.
They blend them up.
Okay.
Yeah.
But I think first it's important for the people to know exactly what their idea of wellness
is.
(14:34):
Is it Zanzibar?
Kind of, you know, white sands and water waves and that kind of experience.
Yeah.
Is it a tropical forest?
You know, we are tracking.
Yeah.
Is it culture?
Yeah.
You know, drumming and eating organic food because in Uganda we have food, fresh foods
(14:55):
throughout the year and the weather is beautiful.
Like it's basically within 25 degrees throughout the year, average.
Yeah.
You know, and we have fresh fruits and vegetables on the market throughout the year.
So even just going to the markets and seeing how the real Ugandan people live, you know,
(15:16):
testing the fresh tomatoes, the bananas, everything.
Like I have someone around Africa and I would honestly say Uganda has the best food.
Really?
The best food.
That is hand down, you know.
I've been to Zanzibar.
I've been to Zanzibar, Zambia, Botswana.
I've been to South Africa.
(15:38):
I've seen a variety and quality of food as what is here.
Really?
Okay.
So that is like a fact.
Like even if you have had, because we have had people even from, we had some sample from
Saudi Arabia who came through and they're like, we've been traveling and we have been
(15:59):
to the Bahamas and we've been here and we're like, okay, just test our foods.
And they're like, oh my God, this pineapple.
What is this?
Is this real?
You know?
So yeah, it's crazy.
Really?
Because I love, that's one of the things that I love most about travel.
I think with food, you can find so many different pieces of culture, you know, when people talk
(16:23):
about why they use certain foods, like what foods are for celebrations, what foods are,
you know, what foods are organic, what food, how they prepare the food.
And it's always so much love and family and community around food.
What is a signature dish in Uganda?
Okay.
So first of all, Uganda has over 56 tribes and every tribe has a dish.
(16:47):
Ah, okay.
And the tribe has different food and sauce.
Okay.
But the main common one is the one in the center.
So that is, they call it luombo.
So they get, it could be gnat, it could be chicken, it could be beef.
They wrap it in banana, in banana leaves and they steam it from the banana leaf.
(17:09):
You know, so they serve, they literally, when they're serving you, they give you a banana.
It's usually like almost like pot shaped banana leaf, which they hand you and you eat.
Usually with matoka, we have pumpkins, we have sweet potatoes, we have yams, we have
Irish potatoes.
So all those are the stache.
Then you have pasava.
(17:30):
So all those are just different types of stache foods that we have, okabs.
Yeah.
And then we also have millet.
So this is for the central and then the west, they do a lot of millet, millet bread.
So they do millet bread with ishabo.
Ishabo is basically a milk substance.
(17:53):
So in the west, they are cattle keepers.
So they do a lot of milk.
So they have ishabo where they use some type of salt.
They sprinkle it in the milk and it forms some thick kind of texture.
That is for the west.
And then in the east, they have what they call malewa, which is bamboo.
So they get young bamboo leaves, roots, and they pound them and dry them.
(18:19):
So they actually look like smoked fish and they cook that with ground nuts.
That is bamboo.
And in the north, they do peanuts with different leaves.
So they have what they call bo, they have what they call maracua.
Then they do a lot of shea, shea butter.
(18:40):
So they have a sauce which they literally make out of shea butter and chickpea.
So they get chickpea, they mash it up, and then they mix it with shea butter, with shea
oil.
And that's what they use.
That's the sauce.
It's actually very nice.
Yeah, I've had that.
Really?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
(19:00):
All right.
So now I know what to try.
What's your favorite?
What's your special like dish?
Your favorite dish?
It's crazy.
So my culture is the baganda.
So mine is the one with the banana leaf.
But my favorite is the one for the north.
The one which is the peanuts with the, that's my best.
It's from the north.
And these people are like, how do you eat the millet bread?
(19:24):
Because most people, they say you don't eat millet bread, but I love it.
It's my best.
Really?
Yeah.
And it's very nutritious.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Oh, wow.
That's so amazing.
Okay.
So that's something that I need to keep in mind because I love to eat and I love to eat
different types of food.
Food has so much love connected to it, at least in my opinion, like from my perception.
There's so much, yes, history and you know, so I just, I love it.
(19:49):
I love it.
So what's something else you would want women to know about traveling through Africa?
Okay.
I would love to give them five tips.
One, first of all, it's important for them to at least have a guide the past two, three
days.
Okay.
(20:10):
Most parts of Africa, unlike Europe and Australia and maybe the US, we don't have a very straightforward
structure.
Like maybe you get to the airport, there is a train which will take you to the city.
So at least for the past two or three days, it's important to have a guide who at least
(20:30):
you can do with until you get fully grounded to the environment, the structures around
the currency, the difference, the differences in the environment.
And two, it would be important for people to carry out research about the cultural differences
or society setups because the fact that these are women of color in Africa, they, when they
(21:01):
see a woman of color, they will think you are a native.
So they would expect you to behave a particular way.
Okay.
And then it's because, oh, the third thing is they have to know that in Africa, most
countries see a tourist as a white person.
Okay.
They think a tourist can be a person of color.
(21:23):
Yeah.
You know, and that goes back to number two, which I was talking about understanding the
cultures because when they see a woman of color, they'll not be expecting it to dress
up a particular way, even though you are a tourist, because they would think you are
a local.
Yeah.
And they would not even actually slap, there'll be a bit of a roughness in some areas, mainly
(21:44):
into a crowded area.
And these are things I test myself.
You know, when I was in Zambia, I remember I put on some really short shorts.
Yeah.
And when I was moving through the stone town, the one was very kind.
They would make some sounds which would make you uncomfortable, you know.
And yet when white women, because I had become white friends, they would pass and it was
(22:08):
like, yeah.
So there's a bit of that difference.
Interesting.
That's good to know.
Yeah.
And then four, it's important for them to understand that they'll be treated differently
in most places.
Okay.
And this could be different in a positive light or negative light.
(22:29):
Okay.
And there are some places where they, even in Uganda, where you might go as a tourist
of color and you might not be fully welcomed, you know.
Those are some like the really, really rural areas where they would be like, so in case
(22:50):
you are moving with people, white people, most of the time they're going to think the
white person is funding everything.
Ah, okay.
If you're moving with men in a group and maybe you're buying something, most times the traders
will think that men are paying for everything because it's still a meticulous society.
(23:10):
Yeah.
You know.
So really would they think the woman is in charge or the woman has more money?
You know, if you're in a group with white people, sometimes you might try to serve the
white person before you.
So some of the small things are still there.
Okay.
And that's one of the reasons why I really want to have more women travel within Africa
(23:30):
because most of the tour operators, even in Africa, they think a tourist is a white person.
Like you can't, like, that is just like a real crazy mindset that they've had over the
years.
Wow.
Wow.
And you know what that is?
Is there anything like, is there anything or any conversations where people are trying
to disrupt that thought or trying to change the mindset of saying, Hey, there's a lot
(23:53):
of black Americans now traveling, you know, throughout the, I mean, even black Africans
is traveling throughout Africa.
You know, are people starting to understand the difference?
They are starting to a lot, a lot, a lot.
They are because example, Ugandans, very many Ugandans are now traveling to the post Zanzibar.
(24:15):
So in Zanzibar, there are very many people of color who travel there.
So there it's not so, there's not much.
Treatment of this one differently than the other one in most places.
Cause at least I've seen that in Mombasa, the same thing at the coast, because we have
seen very many Ugandans traveling there and very many people that say traveling vice versa.
(24:37):
And also because different countries are promoting regional tourism.
So we have more people traveling around.
Yes.
Okay.
So the, the, the narrative is changing, but some people, cause I even see it in different
exports where maybe you go out there hosted by maybe in Zambia and you're hosted by, you
(25:00):
know, and there may be some three white posted buyers.
You'd find people going towards them thinking they have no business than you.
So there is that because the trade industry has been labeled as a white person place.
And that's one of the reasons why I requested to be on as many podcasts as I can because
(25:21):
I want to share as much information to see more people of color come to Africa.
Because until you come, people are always going to think the tourism industry or products
are for the whites.
You know, that's right.
That's right.
And then lastly, yeah, I wanted to share a last tip for people who want to travel in
Africa to buy their tickets at least a year or six months in advance.
(25:45):
Tickets become very expensive.
So they're really expensive, but something the price that was over as the days come closer.
So if they're planning to visit a place or is good to have their ticket at least secured
so they can get it at a good price.
Okay.
That's good to know.
That's really good to know.
You know, what I think is really interesting is just the concept of how the color of tourism
(26:08):
is changing and how that even affects Africa.
So to hear you say that, you know, tourism has always just been a white industry, that's
so true.
And the best way to disrupt that narrative is with our physical presence.
So I really love what you're doing.
I love what you're doing.
Now, how can people contact you specifically?
(26:30):
Yeah, they could share it.
They could send me an email.
I can share two of my emails.
I'll share them with you.
My personal email, which I've been using, which is vnet.
They could already share.
I'm very active on my Instagram, which is Linnet, underscore, lax travel.
(26:51):
Okay.
And also my Instagram page, which is girls travel Africa, the community, they will send
a message there.
But then also if you would like to, if it's a long message and they want to be elaborate,
they could send an email at info at girls travel Africa.com.
I'm really grateful for this conversation.
(27:13):
Like you sent me an email and said, Hey, Tammy, your podcast.
And I was like, okay, yeah, sure.
You know, let me, let me see some information.
Let me see what she's about.
And I was like, Oh, this sounds interesting.
But hearing directly from you today, I'm like, Oh, this is what we need more of.
You know, we need more people just saying, Hey, the narrative has been this way for a
(27:34):
long time and it doesn't need to be that way anymore.
And how can I change it?
So I thank you for the work that you're doing.
Yeah.
Any final thoughts that you would love to share?
I'd like to know more about you.
How did you start this podcast?
Why did you put that?
So I had a series back in 2020, 2020, maybe call voices from the diaspora and it was just
(28:01):
the IG live.
I did one per week for during the month of February, because that's black history month
here.
And I did that in thinking like, I wanted us to connect more.
Right?
Like there's always people talking about, this is what Africans do.
This is what Americans do.
But no one's ever talking to each other.
And I don't like that because it's just like my family's from Trinidad and we have a whole
(28:23):
different way of doing things than my family in America.
So there's always these different things that people grow up around, people experience,
but we never really talk to each other, but we spend a lot of time talking about each
other.
So I did that and I was thinking, this will be really cool.
And I really enjoyed it.
(28:44):
So I had in the back of my mind that I wanted to do a podcast where I would just kind of
talk about travel, but then have an opportunity to connect with different people.
The first co-host, she was from the UK and then the second person that was on or the
second person that interviews, she was from Canada.
So just hearing different black women from different places, I thought would be amazing.
(29:06):
And I was really nervous for a while.
So I didn't start until 2023, last year, January, 2023.
I was like, there's so many podcasts out there.
No one's going to want to listen.
And I was pleasantly surprised.
People really listened in, they asked questions.
And I think the biggest difference was you were able to hear different voices.
(29:30):
So you were able to hear the black Trinidadian American girl who lives in Atlanta talking
to a black British Trinidadian girl who lives in the UK, who then was talking to a black
Canadian Trinidadian lady who lives in Canada.
You know, I'm all, no, she lives in North Carolina now.
(29:52):
So you're seeing all these black people, all these black women from all these different
places just coming together and having conversations.
Black German traveler, for example, she's from Angola, but she grew up in Germany.
And she talks about her experience there and you know, how she wanted to just kind of create
a space where someone who was black and lived in Germany or from Germany traveled.
(30:16):
And she couldn't find it.
So she created that space, you know, and now she's pretty popular on Instagram.
So all of these different things, I just want black women to see each other as like, hey,
we are, we're family, you know, we can connect.
We have all these things that are more similar about us and different, you know, no matter
what part of the world we're in.
(30:37):
You know, that's why I'm just like the reason or the motivation for you starting Girls Travel
Africa is so beautiful to me because that is exactly aligning with why traveling black
women exists.
Like we have to be there.
We have to be physically present.
So people know like, hey, we're here.
We have much of the same fears, much of the same desires, much of the same, you know,
(30:58):
concerns in life.
So that was definitely my motivation.
I wanted to hear the voices.
I wanted to see the smiles, you know, it just feels good to have those conversations.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
So that's me.
I'm a little cheesy, you know, but that's me.
(31:19):
I just want to I just want to connect us.
I think we're more powerful together than.
Yes, actually, I was going to say that we're more powerful when you're connected.
We get to learn from each other.
Then we get to rewrite our stories.
No one writes them for us.
Right.
So we're like working with women.
You work with people who have seen life in a closer light than like you are, you know,
(31:45):
some of the challenges I have faced, I have seen other women face the same challenges,
you know, it could be miles apart, it could be the US, it could be in Africa, it could
be in Uganda.
But at the end of the day, some of the challenges start across some of the.
Yes.
Like the desires start across like wellness.
And sometimes very many women get lost with life, you know, they feel like, yeah, maybe
(32:07):
they see their.
Yeah.
Interpret who they are, maybe in the eyes of their husband or in the eyes of their children,
in the eyes of their wife, for those who don't have families still, because sometimes people
think, oh, you're not married or you have the children.
You are OK.
You're free.
But they are also stressed and they just want a break and they want permission to relax
(32:31):
and do nothing.
And sometimes the society does not give it to them.
That's so true.
So, so true.
And I mean, and it's worldwide.
So to know that, you know, that it's the same thing.
It's almost everywhere.
You know, you're here.
It's the same exact thing.
Either you're you're always somebody, something, somebody's employee, someone's wife, someone's
(32:53):
mother, and you don't have the opportunity to just be you, you know.
So yeah, yeah.
And I think that's one of the things that travel also does for women is that it gives
you the opportunity to see like the world is so much bigger than whatever it is that
people are telling you you have to be.
People are telling you, oh, you have to find a husband.
You have to.
(33:14):
You have to have children.
You have to do this.
You have to do that.
And it's just like, but there's this big world out here.
I want to go see that.
And I want to go experience that.
And then once you do, you could still have all those things.
You could still have the husband.
You could still have the kids.
You could still have the great job.
But now you know that life is much bigger than that.
So you can take a break when you want to.
You can do things a little bit differently, you know, than you've been doing them in the
(33:37):
past or that people before you have been doing them because you've seen it in other cultures.
You know, there's so much that you can gain from being able to just, oh, there's more.
OK.
Yes.
Yes.
Explore.
Right.
Right.
This is an amazing conversation.
I am so happy.
(33:58):
I'm so happy to have talked to you today.
Me too.
Thank you for sticking it out when the internet was being funny.
No problem.
I'm so worried that every time I kept looking for that, oh, my gosh, you sent me an email
and tell it's risk.
Can you?
You're welcome.
Thank you as well for bearing with me also, because I was like, we're going to figure
(34:22):
this out.
We're going to figure this out.
And we figured it out.
And we were able to have an amazing combo.
So Annette, thank you so much for chatting with me today.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
Me too.
So you all, thank you all for tuning in.
Annette, like she said, you can get to her info at girls travel Africa dot com.
(34:47):
It's probably the easiest way to get to her.
So if you're looking at planning a trip to Uganda or any place, East Africa, and you're
like, you know what?
I want to make sure that it's safe.
I want to make sure that I'm around women who know how to plan, who know how to put
together a great tour and who specialize in wellness.
(35:08):
She's your girl.
All right.
Thank you guys for tuning in and have a great evening or daytime, whatever time you're listening
to this.
Bye bye.
Bye.
All around the beach.
All around the beach.
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