S3, E2: From New York Dietitian to Tanzanian Tour Operator

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Justa Luwangana, the dynamic founder of Curious on Tanzania. In this engaging episode, Justa shares her incredible journey of turning her passion for Tanzania into a thriving tour company.

Discover the motivations behind her mission to showcase the beauty and culture of Tanzania to the world. From the bustling streets of Dar es Salaam to the breathtaking landscapes of the Serengeti, Justa's story is one of determination, resilience, and a deep love for her homeland.

Tune in to hear:

• Justa's personal journey and what inspired her to start Curious on Tanzania.
• The challenges and triumphs she faced in building her business.
• Tips for travelers looking to experience the true essence of Tanzanian culture.

Whether you're an avid traveler or simply curious about Tanzania, this episode is packed with valuable insights and heartwarming stories. Don’t miss out on this chance to get to know the woman behind one of Africa’s most exciting tour companies.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Traveling Black Women podcast, where we are talking to black women around

(00:16):
the world.
I'm your host Nadine and I am so excited to take you on a journey with fearless black
women exploring the world.
Each episode we uncover hidden gems, share travel hacks, and hear inspiring stories from
incredible travelers who look just like you.
So whether you're a seasoned flowchatter or planning your very first adventure, we've
got something special for you.

(00:37):
So stay tuned and let's dive into today's episode.
Hello and welcome to episode two of season three of the Traveling Black Women podcast.
I have an amazing tour operator out of East Africa with me today.

(01:02):
Her name is Zusta and she is so amazing at what she does.
Every circle that I'm in that I hear about Tanzania, her name comes up or Tanzania.
Let me say it properly.
Like I learned when I was there.
I don't know.
So I'm going to give her the floor and will you introduce yourself?
Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

(01:24):
Oh my God.
Who am I?
What I do?
I get that in the beginning of like my career that was so challenging.
Like leaving the dietitian job because you know how you go for school for like a certain
career and that determines who you are.
So when I was like kind of like in a flip of switching, I got lost.

(01:45):
I'm like, who am I?
I'm not a dietitian anymore.
What am I?
So every time I hear that, I'm like, oh my God, who am I again?
I want to live my life to the fullest.
But then I also want to share it with people I like.
And you know, like when you point one finger at a person, then there's also the four fingers

(02:10):
that point back at you.
So whenever I pointed fingers, I'm like Tanzania is not being represented the way I want it
to be represented.
So like it was just like pointing that one finger, somebody that I'm confident should
do this and this people should do this and this like it was always that they should but
not realizing there was always those four fingers that are pointing back at me.

(02:32):
So then when I realized that I was like, okay, this is a challenge.
This is my mission.
And I was like, okay, so where do I start?
How do I do this?
So I guess now I could say I like I'm an entrepreneur figuring it all out, but also kind of like
opening up this beautiful world, or like just seeing this country in like, like seeing Tanzania

(02:55):
in like my own perspective and like opening it up to people to who are willing to kind
of like join join me on this curiosity on this journey, to kind of just figure it out
because I don't know it all.
I know what I know where I visited, but I don't know it all.
And I always want to kind of add on.
And the more I meet different locals, the more I meet different people from like different

(03:17):
tribes, different backgrounds, the more I'm more curious, the more I want to know more,
the more I want to sit down on their table and just get to understand them.
But the more I also understand self.
And the more I have a story to tell about who am I and what do I do.
So like that is what now I'm getting to understand it better that way.

(03:39):
But that's what kind of like drives me.
So even for me calling the company curious and Tanzania, it wasn't like I am super expert
on the country.
It was like, hey, I am curious.
And maybe you might be also curious.
Let's get on this journey and discover this particular country together.
Oh, that's wonderful.
That's wonderful.

(03:59):
I always think it is interesting to transition into something that you really love from something
that you kind of prepared for.
Right.
Like you have this whole idea of like, this is what my profession is going to be.
But then there's that heart calling of like, I have a purpose and the purpose needs to
come from me.
Right.
And so I think that's amazing.
That's amazing.
So how has the journey been like, you know, creating your own company?

(04:24):
Oh my God.
It has been a roller coaster from like the beginning.
Let me say my family and I used to have this is like almost like 10 something years ago.
Remember when the Kim Kardashian show was starting.
So we ended up doing something similar to that for Tanzania.

(04:45):
So we called it Growing Up African.
And it was actually still on YouTube, I think.
So we ended up doing Growing Up African showcasing our lives or like our Tanzanian lives in America.
But the show was showcased in East Africa.
So like the whole of East Africa could be able to see it.
And from there, one of our uncles saw us and was like, hey, you guys, you have a lot of

(05:10):
potential.
You could be able to do so much.
And then my uncle was our uncle was in the tourism industry.
So he was like, you do so much and you have to see your country in a different way and
see how you are seated next to the people who actually want to visit.
But then this is also a great opportunity that you should look at.
So came to Tanzania, we were supposed to be filming for the Growing Up African.

(05:34):
We do film in the middle of the Serengeti, in the middle of everything.
Like it was such a beautiful.
That particular season never aired.
But like the first season aired and everybody ended up like it was nothing.
And everybody used to call us like, oh, yeah, you guys are the Kim Kardashian of Tanzania.
So like my family is actually six of us.
It's my mom and five kids.

(05:57):
And it's three girls and two boys at the end.
And then it's my mom.
So like we were just creating a mess.
But like from that, and of course, our mother always told us about like going back home
and giving back.
So when I started my career as a dietitian, my intention was always to find a way to go
to come back here in Tanzania and be able to find a way to contribute back.

(06:20):
So tying everything kind of like was making sense.
Every time I come back to Tanzania, it was always like going back to the village and
meeting like our grandparents and just doing like very traditional stuff, which is normal
for me.
And then, of course, coming back here to the rest of them and just kind of like there was

(06:42):
some is kind of like a kind of like a capital city where everybody goes to some metro area,
coming back and enjoying the life here, enjoying the beautiful beaches and those just normal
things.
So it was mostly just visiting family going out and just enjoying ourselves.
That was mostly it.
But I never got to see or I'd never had an opportunity to see what the regular tourists

(07:03):
like what the tourists saw of Tanzania.
So I had everybody coming to Safari and I'm like, I ain't going to Safari.
That's what literally this kind of me.
I'm Tanzanian.
We don't do those.
Yeah, it doesn't like it doesn't make sense.
Why am I going on a Brooklyn Bridge when I live in Brooklyn?
Like, seriously, doesn't make sense.

(07:24):
When I when our uncle actually said he said, I'll bring all of you guys to come and see
this part of the world and then you can figure out what you want to do after.
So we ended up coming Tanzania.
We did do the filming in the middle of the Serengeti.
We went to Zanzibar.
We did we did like Javaslam and we did like the most tourist things ever.

(07:46):
And we were just amazed by like the beauty of like the middle of the Serengeti with the
tentative camps climbing on Kiro Manjaro.
We only climbed to the first level, but it was just breathtaking and everybody was calm
and collected.
We went to like stayed in tentative camps where we've never stayed in the luxury tentative
camps before.
It's like a whole nother world.

(08:07):
We went to Zanzibar.
We never been to Zanzibar as Tanzanians.
And so we saw Zanzibar and we were like, is this is this part of our country?
We literally thought this place was another country, just like how everybody else thinks.
And just by just seeing those perspective of things, it was like, wow, this is also
my country.

(08:27):
And then I got to come back to the US.
I came back to the US and I'm telling all my friends about all the animals that I saw.
I saw Pumba, I saw giraffes, I saw whoever.
I referred to the whole Lion King.
And while I was telling my friends, my friends were in the same mindset that I was before

(08:48):
where they're like, I don't want to go on a safari.
I don't want to see people.
I want to go where you go when you go to your village, when you do this, when you do that.
That's what they wanted to see.
So me, I'm like, but you have to go on a safari.
Like I just saw these amazing hotels.
Like I'm literally trying to convince them.
And everybody was like, and then of course it came to the price point.

(09:09):
They're like, oh no, no, no.
This is only for those particular people who really, really have good money, could be able
to do it.
So then I had to go back on.
This is then where I did not know nothing about tourism, did not learn about it.
Oh, I just saw.
And then I was just projecting because my uncle was like, oh yeah, you guys could try

(09:29):
to see if you want to get into the business, if not.
So it was six of us that went, including my mom, actually seven of us that went, including
my mom.
And I'm the only one who got the book.
And I wanted to seek more and figure out what is this thing is all about.
And remember family or like even somebody, he's an, my uncle was an extended family,

(09:52):
but he became like a super uncle because like he was very caring.
My mom was a single mother coming to the U.S.
He always wanted the best for us and he saw the potential, but him seeing the potential
and actually giving us the opportunity where it costs a lot of money for us to be going
on the safaris and going to like super luxury places.

(10:15):
So him just kind of actually depositing that into us.
That is, it's one of the best gifts I would say I ever forgot in my whole entire life.
I'm always that grateful, like how can a person just like offer like something where this
is also their baby.
They've been in business like now it's been almost like 30 years.
So they know this really, really well.

(10:37):
And him just actually shadowing me and like I used to go back to Tanzania and he's like,
okay, let's do this, let's do this, let's do that.
So that's when I got really into the tourism world.
But before that, not knowing, having gone to school for it, that's one of the things
I did not study tourism, I studied nutrition and then this thing is dropped at me.

(10:58):
I did not know nothing about marketing.
So like, I don't know, I'm just telling you what I saw and if you're going to come, you're
going to come.
So yeah, for almost like three years, it was like, it was kind of like crickets everywhere.
Everybody's like, you crazy.
So I think that was when Instagram was starting or something like that.
So I started my Instagram that was called, I think, traveling, I think traveling with

(11:20):
Cheska or something like that, if you remember.
And I started posting up like my pictures that was in Tanzania and then I started going
on just finding pictures of like either animals or like, loges that were in Tanzania, just
posting up and writing kind of like notes about those particular places.
And actually had one of my family members who was like, stop posting those things, you're

(11:42):
embarrassing us because I was posting about like tribes.
And literally this particular member was like, stop posting about that, you're embarrassing
us, called me on the phone.
And I was like, literally called me on the phone and was like, don't post, stop posting
it in a rude way.
It wasn't like in a nice way, rude way.
So I went like, and this is me just like trying to hustle and figuring out and like somebody

(12:06):
just dropped a bomb on me.
So I went in my bed, I started crying, crying, called my mom, was like, oh, this person said
that, my mom was like, don't listen to anybody.
You just keep on pushing whatever you want to do.
Just keep on going.
And I was like, I reached out, that person came back again and said the same thing.
And I reached out back, I was like, listen, if you don't want to see this, please remove

(12:29):
yourself from my Instagram.
Just block me, do whatever, but like I have to continue.
I ended up changing my name on Instagram again.
I changed it to, like, I think it was keys to Safari because I wanted to give everybody
a key to Safari for some reason.
So that's like after learning a little bit about marketing.
So I'm like, I want to give you guys a key to the Safari so you can come and see the

(12:53):
Safari.
Now thinking about it, now I'm like, this is, oh, that's terrible.
It was the way I was marketing things.
It was a typical person who would come on the Safari, which is, and actually had this
guy do a logo for me.
And for some reason, they did a logo that involved a white old man, just in Safari wear,

(13:14):
having a rifle on them, and then they had on the Safari hat with binoculars.
They were holding on binoculars.
That was supposed to be my logo.
And they said, this is a typical person who is going to come on a Safari in Tanzania.
And this is the person you're trying to attract.
And look at me.
I'm like, are you serious?

(13:36):
So that person did the logo for me and that was hell.
I looked at the logo.
I was like, nope, this is not us at all.
And so I ended up paying him off.
And then I just kind of like went my way.
Websites at that time, I think it was WordPress.
WordPress was so hard to use.
I paid somebody like crazy amount of money.
I think they had, I think they almost wanted, I think almost like $5,000 to do my website.

(14:01):
So I paid them like 2,000 and then they came back and gave me this word document.
It was nothing what I wanted, but they took half of my money.
So I had to drop them and I had to get somebody else.
And then what I realized, like I needed to learn myself.
Like I needed to kind of like literally, instead of using my money, I needed to put time in

(14:23):
and actually understand what marketing was, understand who I was speaking to, who is my
target audience, and who do I need to reflect on everything that I'm doing.
Marketing events are the ones that got me to know more about the travel exports.
Two guys that were starting this company called Skift.

(14:47):
I don't know if you know about Skift.
That sounds familiar.
But like that is one of the biggest companies right now that shares more information about
research on travel.
So I ended up going to their events when they were just starting out and I almost walked
out because I was so scared.
It was to say, this is Wall Street.
It was mostly white people, actually all white people.

(15:11):
And I'm like literally the only person just walking around and like literally looking
like I don't know where I'm going.
So this guy ended up stopping me.
He was like, oh, I see you almost exiting.
Where are you going?
So that particular guy was like, you're going to introduce me to everyone.
I don't know what I'm doing here, but you're going to introduce me to everybody.
He's like, oh, so where are you from?

(15:31):
I was like, Tanzania.
So they was like, oh yeah, I've been to Tanzania.
So he started off the conversation.
Come to find out he was one of the people who was helping to start that particular company.
So then I got connected with them.
I ended up having dinner with them.
And then he started telling me a little bit about travel.
So then I ended up emailing him when Skift was starting one of their first conferences

(15:55):
in New York City.
This is with Expedia being there with all these big brands, all these big OTA brands.
They were all coming together, AB&B.
And all these huge brands were all coming together because that particular organization
does all the research behind it to let them know where the trends are happening, all these
things that are happening.

(16:16):
Ended up volunteering for that event.
And I got so much information.
I ended up knowing about this co-working space, which was called Voyager.
So I ended up attending Voyager, the co-working space in New York City, which also wrapped
around travel entrepreneurs.
And that's where I got to know so many travel entrepreneurs who were giving me ideas from

(16:38):
everywhere and helping me without paying that much.
Literally, everybody was like, OK, so you're doing this and just helping me to craft my
way about.
Then, of course, the travel world started going where I could attend more events.
And some of them are volunteers.
Some of them, of course, I'll pay for it.

(17:00):
New York Times, trade and New York Times shows and all of that.
I was everywhere.
Wherever there was an audience, wherever there was attention, I was there.
One of the craziest place I ended up because I did not know again, I did not know nothing
about entrepreneurship.
I needed to learn what entrepreneurship was.

(17:20):
And NYU was offering a course.
And this is where I was going.
I was a clinical dietician in Brooklyn.
So NYU was offering this course.
And I was not an NYU student.
I was not a faculty member.
I was not whatever.
But to be able to attend that particular course, you had to be one or the other.

(17:43):
And I was neither.
I ended up finding out, I don't know how, I think I found it out from NYU Africa.
They announced because I was going to their events all the time.
So they said, oh, there's this entrepreneurship thing that was going on.
And it was like a cohort.
So it wasn't like that intense where you needed to pay money to be able to attend it.
As long as you are a part of either you went to the school, you're faculty, or you're a

(18:09):
current student, you could be able to attend that particular program.
So I was neither.
I ended up going.
The first day they asked me for my ID.
I said I left it home.
The second day, the second day they asked, of course, for ID.
I'm like, oh, I left it home.
The third day, he was like, oh, hey, what's up?
How are you?
And everybody knew me by then.

(18:30):
So I was like, hey.
I ended up attending the course.
I think it was almost like six weeks.
My job was a clinical dietician.
I ended up changing my schedule.
I told my boss, like I literally did, I will work from 6 to 2 PM.
And then after 2 PM, I will dash out, go on the D train, D train straight to NYU, and

(18:55):
attend this course.
And this course was, I think it was like two hours a day.
And they would literally break it down from like all the way from, of course, starting
your company to like all the way to like what kind of legal entity you want to be, marketing,
like everything that involves starting a business.

(19:17):
And then I learned about this book called Lean Startup.
So like I got that book and I went to one of the events.
I don't know who sponsored me to go to that event, but I ended up going to that event
with Lean Startup where it's like, of course, Lean Startup, basically, you create something
and then you have room to pivot.
If you think it's not, you sample it out.

(19:37):
So you always create and always put it out there.
If it doesn't work, change up a little bit and then spit it out there again.
Instead of you waiting until everything is perfect and then put it out.
But their philosophy was like, you could always just shoot it out there.
So when I got that, I was like, okay, this name is not working out.
This Kisus of Auri is probably not working out.
I might need to find another name.

(20:00):
So me not knowing again, not knowing that much about Tanzania and then trying to be
an expert at the same time, I was like, it's not working out.
So I think I spoke to my ex-boyfriend one time.
I was like, so what do you think about Curious?
I think I saw something about Curious on, I think Hudson.
Yeah, there's an organization called Curious on Hudson.

(20:23):
So when I saw that, I was like, okay, this, I will change the last thing.
I was like, Curious on Tanzania.
He was like, that doesn't sound appropriate.
It should be Curious about.
I was like, but it's too many words.
He was like, okay.
He was like, maybe, yeah, it might work.
So I was like, okay, I'm staying with it because I saw it somewhere else.
So I was like, I'm staying with this one, Curious on Tanzania.
So I changed up my Instagram.

(20:45):
Then I went to changing up a lot of stuff on there.
And then I started, now it started becoming more, it started to become something.
You know, it started to become something where I'm not positioning myself as an expert, but
I'm positioning myself as a person who's curious.
And so then I started kind of, okay, so a person who's curious, how do they move?

(21:10):
What are they looking to find?
Like, where are they?
Who are they?
How do we talk to them?
How do we talk to each other?
So that's how I kind of like, even with social media, with Instagram, I will position myself
as a person who's curious.
And I will tell these various stories in the position of like, I understand you as a traveler.

(21:30):
I also understand people in my country and how things are operating.
Okay, I'll be that person in the middle to kind of help guide these two worlds together.
So that's how kind of like, how like curious Tanzania came about, and then of course how
like all these curious travelers who are like, I want to travel, I want to see it, but like

(21:52):
I want to see it in your perspective.
And of course, also being able to view the team in Tanzania, it was from that same curiosity.
Like majority of our team leaders, they have certain curiosity or they have a passion for
something and they want to showcase that.
And they always are willing to learn or willing to share.

(22:13):
And of course, with the strong backbone of my uncle on the other side, who my uncle actually
ended up passing away the first guest that I brought.
It was a month before the first guest that I brought.
So he ended up passing away and I was like, yeah, I was in America when he passed.

(22:33):
And then when I was coming, because he also has like hotels and everything, I actually
had to literally, the show had to go on.
Even like our whole staff and everybody, and my cousins and everybody, like literally like
the company still had to run.
I couldn't believe how like efficient we were all, or we all were.
The guest didn't know anything, probably like I think until the end, because we did not,

(22:57):
like I was also leading the trip.
So we did not want to kind of like, put like any, this is their holiday.
So I ended up pushing back a little bit and let like the rest of the team take over.
I went to his grave and of course, their blessings.
And like literally my aunt was like, this is the perfect way of honoring your uncle.

(23:22):
Like you are following his dream and you know he's resting in peace knowing that this is
exactly what he wanted you to do.
So like from that day on, I was like, oh my God, I was like, I can't believe this.
This show does not stop.
You just have to keep on going.
But like it has been definitely a journey.

(23:43):
Something happened at my job and they ended up laying me off.
Their reasoning was so terrible.
I didn't even want to fight it.
I was like, can you put it in print?
So they put it in writing.
And that next thing I know, I had like my six months severance pay and I was like, this
is it.
This is the sign.
That's an amazing journey.

(24:04):
Just to realize, okay, what works and then having to be self-taught, right?
Having to go after, okay, let me find this course.
Let me do this course.
Let me learn about this.
After you've learned everything for your regular profession, you're like, all right, but this
is something that really feels good.
So let me go and try to find more information.
I think all of this came from my mom.

(24:24):
My mom has always, always wanted us because we immigrated into US when I was 12.
And my mom always wanted us to come back home.
And that was one of her dreams.
So for me to be able to help my mom fulfill one of those dreams, if it took tourism to
get there, then I'm also a kiss ass to my mom, people say.

(24:49):
Because I just want to make my mom happy.
And every time she sees me getting on a plane and coming back or when she calls me and I'm
here, because she's still in the US and she wants to retire then come back.
And she's always has this big smile on her face.
And for me, it's like, okay, that's the affirmation of like, okay, I'm doing the right thing.

(25:10):
Now it makes sense.
But before I never knew why my mom emphasized, always remember home, always remember who
you are.
You are a queen.
Because we also come from a royal family.
So she's like, always remember home, always remember home.
Even like being from living in the US and coming to the US when I was at the age of
12, I could have been just like a typical person, but like she was the type of woman

(25:33):
who was like, as soon as you come home, she's like, you know, you're African.
We don't do things like that.
Or we don't do or we do things like this.
Oh, you're going to know to cook that the dress code, the everything or like she will
come in the house and we are all singing like our tribal songs, or speaking in like Swahili
speaking in our third language, like everything like all together, we just pour it out like

(25:57):
that, you know?
So that joy, that joy of like knowing and like always reflecting like visiting like
our grandparents visiting my dad, like going from Times Square, where it's like heavy,
heavy, heavy, busy traffic, everything, and then simmering all the way down to going for
some people would think of it as like stepping back in time, like going to my village where

(26:19):
it's like some places people still live in hats.
Some places they like people, some places people don't have even bathrooms, they have
bathrooms like all the way on the outside.
But then when I came, whenever I went to like the village, you humble yourself down, you
meet people where they ask, you just you just kind of appreciate the nature, appreciate

(26:39):
the amazing organic food.
And you just sit there and just like the raindrop over the roof, you just hear it and you're
like, Oh my God, is that rain?
And you smell the clay and you're like, Oh my God, is that clay?
Like those kind of things and somebody brings you fish from like Lake Victoria, and you're
like, Oh, this fish is good.
And then you go back to the US and you're like, this is chaotic.

(27:02):
But then it's beautiful chaotic.
But then it's almost like I get to live this life, I get to live the whole of it.
And it's not a lot of people say that you get to live this whole life and you get every
everywhere you go, people like understand you or you understand the people.
Because when I go to my village, I have to speak my third language.

(27:24):
I speak higher, I go in and speak higher.
They sing a song, I know it because I grew up in a village too.
They dance, I danced with them too.
So it's not like they're like, Oh, yeah, that's not American kid.
No, I will prove to them that I am a part of them.
And it's because it's because like when it comes to like when what definition of a tribe

(27:44):
is a tribe is people like us do things like this.
So when whenever you like go into a space, you're like people like us do things like
this.
So like, what are these people doing?
And if they recognize with you, and if it falls into like your values, and you want
to be able to kind of understand people, that's, that's how you kind of able to understand

(28:06):
people like us do things like this.
That's, that's what a tribe is.
I love that.
I never thought about it like that people like us do things like this.
I mean, that makes perfect sense, right.
And it is something that that allows you to build community, you feel like you're in a
community and to recognize that people do different things because they are different
people.
And that's okay, you know, exactly.

(28:27):
That's really interesting.
But I really love what you said about being able to live that fullness of life.
Because I think that is something that is so underrated, to be able to live in two different
worlds and to adapt to these two different worlds.
And to feel like those two different worlds are part of you.
I think it gives you such a wide, broad, open mindset that a lot of people just don't have,

(28:52):
you know, and when you have that kind of mindset, you're almost limitless, you can do anything,
you can literally do anything, you can understand anything, you can feel different things like
you're just, you're just able, you know, to just do so much and be so many different parts
of yourself and to like how you said, and to really like, figure out all these different

(29:13):
parts of yourself and be who you truly want to be without someone telling you who you
should be.
I think that is really dope.
That is really, really deep.
I love that.
Trust me, I go bananas every day and I'm like, oh my god, like, literally, like even sitting
here, I'm like, I'm in the house by myself.

(29:34):
But I'm like, yes, I love the quietness.
I'm like, yes, I love it.
And then it's just, it's just a blessing.
It's a blessing that when we follow our passions, when you listen to that, there's a small voice
that keeps on talking.

(29:54):
Then you're able to kind of like, okay, figure out, yes, I mean, there's a lot of hard times,
but then it's always that reminder of like, this is my story and I'm writing it and I'm
telling it.
There are people who will be, who are also looking to do the same thing.
So why can I position myself to be the mirror of like, hey, this curious traveler is like

(30:17):
seeking to understand this particular thing, but like, I don't have a lead way, like which
way should I go to be able to explore this?
This is basically what like our curious travelers are always like, I want to do the, I want
to do traditional stuff, but they also want to do a Yatch experience, but also want to
do Safari, but also when I go to like a mom and pop place and just sit down and eat this

(30:42):
great meal, but then how do I do all of that?
You know?
And then who is going to understand that need of mine?
You know?
So like, I'm like, listen, let's do it.
Let's do it.
Like wherever you are, like don't be afraid because in the mix of all of that, you end
up finding yourself.
You end up finding who you are or even like just digging even more.

(31:06):
So like, why can we not just like follow it and just like you come and travel and see
the country.
I've had a couple of people who have moved to Tanzania or who are looking to invest,
so two different things.
So whenever they come back, when they come back to the US, they know more about Tanzania
or they're part of that Tanzania, the Tanzanian, I don't know what to call it, like the journey,

(31:28):
they understand it.
If you mention it, they're like, yeah, Tanzania, you have been there, you have been there.
So they have a story to tell about this particular place.
So like you always are like, yes, yes, that place, yes, it was good.
It's a conversation starter.
So that's why I like also keeping my foot in New York is because to also continue that

(31:52):
experience, continue that whatever made them happy to just come back and like reflect on
it.
So that's how I contribute back into the melting pot of New York by adding in the Tanzania
culture there.
And you know, a lot of what you do is disrupting whatever narratives we were originally told

(32:12):
about all of Africa.
You know, for so long, people will just call Africa like it's just one big country, you
know, and it's like, as you get older, I think it wasn't until I was in seventh grade, so
about 12 years old, that we went through like, here's the map of Africa, there are 54 countries
and it was like, oh, okay, it's a continent, like 12.

(32:32):
That's a long time before you realize that it's not, you know, this place that you see
on TV.
So having an organization or a company, and even just putting on events where people are
able to see more than the narrative that is pushed towards us is really, really powerful.
Like that's really powerful, you know, so I commit that.

(32:53):
Thank you.
You've been doing a lot, this YouTube channel, I got to check that out.
I mean,
Listen, that YouTube channel has not been updated in such a long time, but like, you
know, like when you throw things on the wall to see which one sticks?
Yes, yes.
Oh my goodness, I know that all too well.

(33:14):
But I mean, but something eventually sticks, right?
Every entrepreneur, every successful entrepreneur has that story, you know, of them going through
all these different motions, trying to figure it out.
And then finally, that light bulb goes off and something sticks.
And before you know it, everyone knows it.
It's a blessing, you know, it's a blessing.

(33:34):
Like I am truly, truly, I truly feel blessed at this point of time, that I'm able to do
what I love to do, but also be in, be at a place where I feel like this is the place
I need to be at or be, just be everywhere, but yet be somewhere at the same time.
So now as everything has evolved, what is something that someone on your trip, like,

(33:58):
you know, my cousin is going on one of your trips for her birthday and she's super excited.
It's her 40th birthday.
Yes.
What is something that you want people to take away from their experience with you in
Tanzania?
They're definitely not going to be the same when they go back.
It's going to change them.
Whatever you travel anywhere in the world, it's like literally going to change.

(34:21):
My hope is always to be able to input like a different perspective of what Africa is
about, but also for them to take in of like me as a self, I need to figure out what is
that thing for me.
So when you come to Tanzania, take that time to kind of think of what is that thing for

(34:42):
you.
I don't know if that makes sense.
No, it does.
It absolutely does because you're right, whenever you travel, your mind expands to some kind
of way.
But I also know that there are people who travel who come back and they're the same
because there's also that level of being open, right?
Being able to say, I'm open to the experience.
I want to see something new.
I want to understand something new, you know, and then once you leave yourself open for

(35:05):
that, you're inevitably changed.
Like you're just a new person.
So I feel that.
I think that's a really good concept.
I mean, you think about the Caribbean and the Bahamas and all these places that are
usually painted as these like, what do you call it?
Like a vacation destination only.

(35:26):
Yeah, vacation destinations and all of these things.
And you never really think about Africa.
You never really think about Zanzibar.
You never really think.
And now recently in these last few years, people are starting to wake up like, wait
a minute, Zanzibar is gorgeous.
Wait a minute, Mombasa is really nice.
And I did Mozambique, Lankolos for my birthday.

(35:48):
Like, whoa, that's really nice.
So now that these things are opening up, yeah, it's like, okay, my mind is now changed because
there is not just this one place in the world where I'm allowed to see beauty, see beautiful
blue waters, see, you know, have this relaxing experience, but it's also on the other side
of the world.
It's also on the East Coast of Africa.

(36:08):
So I mean, I think some of these stories allow us to really think about things so differently.
Yes, but definitely for people to also be able to travel intentionally.
And when you travel intentionally, that's when you get that experience that we are talking
about.
Because like if you travel just, oh yeah, I'm just going for specific, like just surface

(36:31):
things, you might not get that transformative experience that we are talking about.
Like if you're very intentional of how you travel, how, oh, include the intentionality
into your like regular trip, then that's when you get to dig deeper and see more.
I mean, you have experienced it multiple times where a group of people come in as strangers,

(36:52):
but by the time they leave, they literally are like, oh my God, you're my sister.
Like literally that banding is like so strong between themselves, but also the people that
they end up meeting all together.
So their perspective automatically is going to shift in some form of way, which when you
come in with the intention of like, listen, I want to learn as much as I could.

(37:15):
I want to of course enjoy myself, but yet I'm seeking to understand self better.
It gives you a different way of, and it gives you more satisfaction of like when you learn
somewhere, you're like, yes, I'm here.
This is it.
So yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's such a transformative experience.

(37:38):
And I like how you phrase that, like being able to understand self better.
Like that is deep.
You know, it's such a transformative experience.
I love that.
I think that's what I got for myself.
I got to understand myself, but then how to express what I'm hearing, what I'm seeing.
Like, yeah, it has changed me.
Because when I was a dietician, it was just like regurgitating everything that I read

(38:02):
in the textbook and just being able to follow.
But if I go back to being a dietician again, I'll literally still own my own business and
run that to like the core.
It was like, let me say like African philosophies and food and just the, because I used to do
that as a dietician, but like now I would like even, I do it for myself, but I would

(38:25):
dig even more.
I would be like a holistic dietician, not like a typical, but like I would dig even
more.
But I was educated differently.
So yeah.
Right.
And that's so needed because that's the same way that I feel about education.
Like I went all the way to the top.
Like I wanted to be the special ed teacher extraordinaire, you know, got my doctorate

(38:47):
and I was just going to fight crime.
You know, I was going to, my whole thing was like, means to learn disabilities, especially
black students with learning disabilities.
I always felt like it's the ones that they were telling me were disabled.
They weren't, they just weren't exposed.
They just didn't know certain things existed, but they weren't like inherently disabled.

(39:07):
Like, and the students who were the students who had dyslexia, the scalp, you know, all
these things that they really needed help with.
I didn't have time to help them because I had to spend so much time working with students
who really weren't disabled, but were frustrated with this curriculum, frustrated with, with
education, frustrated with just their lives, but they were just under exposed.

(39:30):
And I realized like the more and more I travel, the more and more I see the world, the more
and more things just make sense to me, even as an adult.
So imagine what would that be like for a child.
And as time went on, I was just like, you know what?
I don't want to teach anymore.
I don't, I don't want to be stuck in this classroom going through that.

(39:51):
I really want to expose myself.
And at some point I do want to go and start making sure that children can see some parts
of the world as they go through school.
So that way when they're being asked a question or told, read this passage and they have to
imagine what's going on, they can actually see it.
When I think about myself in school, I think about like reading comprehension was always

(40:12):
really good for me or really easy for me because I had a big imagination, especially as an
only child.
You know, your imagination is just huge.
But one of the biggest things for me with my family being from Trinidad was being able
to imagine what life was like in Trinidad and what life is like in America.
So like that, that expanse that you talked about, like I was able to use that to really

(40:34):
think through a lot of things.
And I realized as I became an educator and I started teaching that a lot of students
did not have that, but they were expected to and they were treated as if they should.
So I was like, okay, I need to do something else.
And that something else became getting into travel a little bit more.
But I wanted to go from the angle of how do I make sure more people are exposed, even

(40:57):
in adulthood?
You know, how do I make sure that happens?
So I think some of that is very much in line to like what you're saying was starting as
a having this perfect job, right?
Like I've studied, I've done my thing, I've got my master's, I'm doing my thing to saying,
but it's not my heart work, right?
It's not feeding my soul the way I want it to feed my soul.

(41:18):
And it's not connecting with people the way I want it to connect.
And then now that you've done the heart work, now you can go back to that very thing that
because obviously at some point you loved it, right?
Because you chose it in the first place.
Now it can be an even better experience because now you're like, oh, if you use this, I can
do this.
And it's like, that's what was needed.
Right, right, right.
No like talking about like, like serving people with like, special needs, like, I don't know

(41:44):
if this was but like when I came to the US, because I spoke Swahili and I also spoke our
tribal language, but I did speak English, but my English was way thicker with the accents
because it was influenced by, I went to school in Uganda.
So like Uganda's accents is way thick.
So when I came to the US at 12, I was put in ESL, English as a Second Language.

(42:07):
And that it was so tough being able to go to like middle school and high school and
being categorized as quote unquote, like it's ESL.
And literally, first, I did not know the difference, but like everybody else did.
And they would literally just keep pouring like, oh, and then later on I came to realize,
I'm like, because I speak multiple languages and you guys only speak English, you must

(42:31):
master that language.
I can't be a master of all, like seriously.
So like later on I realized, I was like, I'm not this stupid one here.
I just need extra help.
But yes, people could miss in some places, school, education could like, and people's

(43:00):
perception could be a little bit different.
So like we experienced a lot of teasing in school.
It was just, and you had to assimilate and be the same, but then you couldn't because
like you coming out and people are calling you like, for example, they used to call me
African booty scratcher and like all of this.
And I'm looking, I'm like, I don't know what that means.

(43:20):
I'm like, okay, like, okay, I'm here for education and just people moving.
But like, it was, it was just rough.
And then later on now it's the same people who are reaching out to me and I'm the, I
seem to be the cool kid on the block.
I want to come to Zanzibar, I want to come to Zanzibar and you're like, well, well, well,
tables have turned and I speak English and the other languages.

(43:45):
So yeah, so it's very interesting.
But if I did not follow my passion and follow like, and just have all this guidance behind
me and my mom to kind of emphasize the need for us to come back home, I would still be
just kind of like trying to, trying to figure it out, but like just listening.

(44:06):
My advice would be people to just listen to your intuition and use the resources that
you have available.
And something resources might not seem visible, but they are there because like when I started,
when I started Curious in Tanzania, I did not start with no money.
I just started with like my curiosity and just like use the little bits that I had and

(44:29):
then just kind of built it up as I went.
But like, yeah, just that way you are see what resources you have.
For me was my culture, for me was my homeland and I had access to it.
And that's exactly what I picked up and used and just kept on going.
So yeah, I love that.
I love that.

(44:50):
I think that is so powerful.
Our moms, I think our moms do a really good job of making sure that we know who we are.
My mom being from Trinidad, it's the same way.
I was born in America, but I went to Trinidad every Christmas and every summer and that
connection remains strong.

(45:11):
I'm actually going to Trinidad this Friday to visit my grandfather.
With the rotis by the savannas.
Eating rotis by the savannas.
What is it?
What is that thing with the chickpeas inside it is sweet?
Oh, the doubles.
The doubles.

(45:31):
Oh my God.
Yeah, the doubles.
Yes.
My best friend is from Trinidad.
So like she became a best friend because she understood me.
And then yeah, every time we visited Trinidad, it was almost the same thing as Tanzania.
So she's like, yeah, I get your girl.
And so she has a daughter right now.
The daughter is like 13, but every single summer the daughter had to go back because

(45:55):
she was like, there's no way my kid will be like this.
She also has to know about the other side of who we are.
So the daughter has been going back and she's 13 now.
She loves rotis and everything.
She's very culture oriented.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Having that deep connection really shapes what you can do in life.

(46:17):
Not just who you are, but like what you can do.
And I feel like that makes me personally just feel like I can do anything.
Right.
Because I've seen all these different ways of doing life that if I can't figure something
out, that it's only a matter of time before I do figure it out.
You know, and I love that feeling.
I really, really love that feeling.

(46:37):
Right.
Oh my goodness.
This is an amazing conversation.
You got me talking.
I'm usually not a talker, but like you literally got me talking.
Because I just feel like I'm talking to you.
I'm usually not a talker, but like you literally got me talking.
I actually don't even do like that many speaking engagements or anything.
I just, like, I literally don't.
You have not seen, you've seen me in action presenting myself, but you haven't seen me

(46:59):
on like a, like I actually need to go into that.
I'm like just speaking engagements.
I'm like, no, not yet.
I need to kind of like cook myself up a little bit more, but you got me doing that right
now.
I mean, I enjoyed listening to everything you had to say.
Like when you talked about your journey, it was like, it was like I was watching the podcast

(47:20):
in the podcast.
I was enjoying it.
Like, oh wow.
Because you think about like how many steps get us to from where we think we should be
to where we actually are supposed to be or to where it actually feels good for us.
And I just love hearing those stories.
I love the connection to those stories.
So I was like, you know, just eat it all up.

(47:43):
So I can't believe that.
I mean, we've been at what the Black Travel Expo and I feel like you were talking and
engaging with everyone.
Like everyone knew you were, you know.
So I would not have guessed.
So I do have one last question and that's more about your business and people being
able to reach out and contact.
What is the best way for someone to contact you to create, you know, their experience

(48:08):
in Tanzania and yeah, just how should they contact you and what should they do?
Go find us on Curious on Tanzania.
You could Google it, Instagram, everywhere.
Just Curious on Tanzania.
You should be able to find us there.
Okay, that sounds good.
Now you do custom made trips or do you have packages?

(48:29):
So we do mostly like customized experiences.
But hopefully by 2025, we're going to have like group trips that we're going to be doing
those trips annually.
So I'm just trying to see.
I've done so many itineraries and I'm trying to pick up like some of the best itineraries
so we could be able to have them for like the solo travelers that are looking.

(48:53):
They're like, probably their friends don't want to travel with them, but they're like,
hey, I want to go on a trip and I'll probably want to meet some cool friends.
So we want to put those for like going forward for like 2025 and like things like that.
So like I'm looking forward to putting those itineraries together and it might start.
Yeah, so that's what we're working on right now.

(49:16):
What's your best type of itinerary to put together?
Like what's your ideal?
I'm a listener.
So when it comes to preparing itineraries, I'm a listener.
I listen to all the inputs of what the client wants and then I am also like because I'm
in terms of me a lot of the time.
So like I get to see a lot of experiences.
So after I listen to the client, like, okay, I think this will be good.

(49:39):
So like when I put it together, I'm like, okay, I think they'll be happy.
By the time I present it to the client, they're like, yes, you read my mind.
I'm like, yeah, you told me everything.
But anyways, but a typical like good itinerary is kind of like a sample of a little bit of
everything and you cannot miss Derras Plum.
A lot of people usually miss like coming to Derras Plum.

(50:02):
You cannot miss Derras Plum with a nightlife.
Of course, Zanzibar is beautiful.
Of course, the safari is beautiful.
If you're able to come to my village, we'll feed you some good food.
But usually that trip is a little bit longer, which I'll probably put it in like, like if
I do a cultural trip, I'll put it in there where you get to learn about our cultures.
You get to dance.

(50:22):
You get to eat good food.
You get to go to the village.
Like all of that customs.
That's a whole trip that I have to put together.
But I think every trip is unique to the person who's traveling.
And if they're traveling for like a special occasion and the people that they're bringing
together is like always keeping in mind.
But everybody's trip is always like great.

(50:45):
It's always amazing.
Everybody has like something different from each other.
And that's what makes like a great customized experience.
Nice.
Oh, okay.
All right.
Yeah, that sounds pretty good.
I mean, I think that's that's pretty easy.
I feel like most people are like, they don't really know.
They don't really know.
They're just like, oh, I want to have a good time.

(51:05):
I want to go to safari.
I want to see the beach.
And that's it.
And it's all on you.
That's one of the reasons why I never started doing it.
I was like, oh, I can't do this.
I can't do planning.
No, you have to get.
Oh my God.
I'm planning.
I learned the hard way.
I'm like, listen, because there's people who will come at you and you like, I want to do

(51:26):
this.
I want to do this.
I want to do this.
And budget.
I don't have a budget.
And I'm like, oh my God, when somebody tells me they don't have a budget, it kills me.
Yeah, it literally kills me.
I'm like, just give me a number from zero to whatever number just mention a number in
between.
So I have a reference to go off and then tell me all these crazy things you want to do.

(51:48):
And then I will find the middle ground.
That's my job.
My job is to kind of like be as realistic as possible, but know that you have an amazing
time.
You sleep in a comfortable accommodations and everything will go smoothly.
But just give me a budget.
Don't leave me hanging because there's like, for example, there was a person who did and
they were like, they wanted to do their honeymoon and price was not nothing.

(52:10):
I was like, okay, you come in with a honeymoon.
And I just went all out.
The price came and they were like, oh, this is a lot.
And I was like, oh my God, I just went through this whole work.
You said price was not anything.
So like, I was from and then so that what they ended up doing is they ended up getting
the itinerary that I gave them and twisting it and like getting other people to do it.

(52:36):
So then one of the trips, they had to come to Zanzibar.
They arrived in Zanzibar at the airport calling that particular company that was supposed to
get them and they were not sure at the airport.
Oh, no.
And this is their honeymoon.
They were not sure at the airport, closer to New Year's, two days before New Year's

(52:58):
and everywhere is booked out.
They have booked them at a particular hotel.
That particular hotel was, it does two nights minimal, but they booked them for one night.
I knew that was the error from like the beginning.
I was like, this hotel is two nights minimum.
Why are you booked for only one night?
And it's during high season.

(53:18):
So next thing I know, this lady ends up calling me at 3 a.m. in the morning crying, saying
they don't have anywhere to sleep.
Their people are not there to pick them up at the airport.
They went to the hotel where they were supposed to sleep for that one night.
The hotel did not have any information of theirs there.
And she's calling me when she had already, she took my itinerary, twisted it around and

(53:41):
got somebody else.
I think it was on ATO.
It was like they did it online, everything online.
So call me at 3 a.m. in the morning.
Luckily, I was headed over to Zanzibar.
And in Zanzibar, I had like two hotel rooms, one of them was mine and the other one I just
left it on emergency.
And so I ended up having to let them stay in the other room that I had on hold.

(54:07):
They were there for seven days.
None of their stuff that they have booked for those seven nights they were there.
I think they said they spent 1500 for the seven nights.
None of the stuff they paid for was there.
And this is during high season.
And then come to find out that the wife then, she was crying a stone.

(54:31):
She was crying.
She did not know what to do.
And the husband is like this, just looking.
And I was like, I'm just supposed to protect.
But then I was like, I was like, I'm not going to say anything.
And let me help them out.
I was like, I'm just looking at this man.
I'm like, oh my God.
I'm like, you support no credit card, no money on them.
They had used up their, like, it was so bizarre.

(54:52):
It was so bizarre.
But then I was like, you know what they need?
Let me kick in my gears.
I spoke to her and we aligned things.
I spoke to the hotel.
And because they knew me and I worked with them for a while, it was just a regular standard
hotel because I don't stay in huge hotels for myself.
When I'm hosting clients, I usually keep it minimal.

(55:14):
And then so I told them, this is where you're going to stay.
This is how things are.
They were okay with it.
So they were able to give them the seven nights.
I paid for the seven nights in the hopes that she will give me my money back when she goes
back to the US.
But the activity, they did not have no activities for the seven days.
I asked some of my clients if they could be able to join in.

(55:34):
My clients were like, okay, they could be able to join.
Of course, I did not expose everything that happened, but like just some information.
So they were able to join in the activity.
They were able to go to New Year's event with us.
When she got back to the US, she was extremely thankful.
They ended up paying me back my money.
And she was like, oh my God, I don't know what I would have done.

(55:56):
It wasn't for that, but that is one of the crazy stories that happened.
They started budget from here and then literally it was like, I was like... And for me, for
somebody else would be like, oh, you did not book with me.
I can't help you.
She called me at 3 AM in the morning and I was like, girl.

(56:16):
I was like, I am sleeping right now.
So I ended up having to call one of my drivers to come pick them up from that particular
hotel and take them and call the other hotel where I was supposed to arrive the next day,
tell them to put them in in the middle of the night, like literally.
And then they had to get my permission because they didn't have any cards or anything.

(56:37):
I was like, just put them out, come and pay for it.
Don't worry about it.
So literally with the trust that I had in between, it was like, okay, but things happen.
Things happen.
Wow.
I mean, yes, you do have a very good heart for still stepping in and being like, all
right, I got you all.
Let me figure this out with you guys.
That's crazy.

(56:58):
They tried and it's like they had to turn around and come back.
So that's crazy.
Right.
Yep.
And then a couple of years later, guess what happened to the couple?
Couple years later, they divorced.
No, yes.
I'm not laughing.
I shouldn't laugh.
I'm not laughing.
I'm not laughing, but my face is like laughing.

(57:18):
I was like, she was like, girl, I was like, I could have told you this.
I was like, the way you were crying and he was just there just looking at you.
I was like, he's supposed to protect, like he should have emergency money somewhere.

(57:42):
Right.
I hope she hears this story and just laughs with us, but yes, it definitely did happen.
Oh, gosh.
Oh my goodness.
That's something else.
I mean, I guess it was a tome in me.
Oh my goodness.
Be life as they say.

(58:03):
Right.
What's the average price though?
What's a good average price that somebody should know if they want a decent trip?
A decent trip.
So I would say if somebody, usually I'll put it per day, including like your hotel, including
like all the, yeah, your hotel, like your transfers, like activities.

(58:25):
If you're looking for something within a budget, like a budget traveler, probably like $250
per day, and then you calculate how many days you want to spend.
So if it's like 10 days, you're looking at 2,500, which includes your accommodation.
For us, we could mix things in.
If you're looking for something higher, I'll usually say go a little bit higher.

(58:46):
So that's how I usually range things like that.
Or you could also go lower depending on how many days.
Yeah.
How many days?
Okay.
And then it makes it easier for you to save money.
Yeah.
Usually I say people just like planning to come to like Africa or like anywhere in Africa,
I would, or anywhere period, I would recommend probably like three months, like six months

(59:09):
to a year of planning, so like at least you have like a good groups of like, if you want
to work on like all your finances or putting that vocation money together.
Okay.
Yeah.
Six months to like eight months, you could say, put your money together, divide it with
a smaller bite, and then you have like an amazing trip because you deserve it.

(59:30):
You're worthy.
So mothers would just save money here and there, here and there, and then before you
know it, it's time for you to travel.
Yeah.
And for us, we do have like payment plans where people could be able to, the earlier
you acquire about your trip, you could be able to pay like little by little, little
by little.

(59:51):
And then so you don't feel it, the day comes for you to travel.
No, that makes a lot of sense.
Okay.
I don't think I ever thought about it as paying per day and then multiplying it that times
per day.
Because people always ask me like, how much should this cost?
And I'm like, I don't know.
What do you want to do?
Like I'm always, I don't know how to like think of that, like how to figure out like

(01:00:16):
how much someone would need because I know how I personally move.
So I know if I'm like, okay, I don't really have a whole lot of like big meals per day.
So maybe my food budget might be $20 a day, you know, something like that.
But that's just me.
When I say that to other people, they're like, oh, that doesn't sound like enough or, oh,
that sounds like too much.
So knowing that a daily price kind of helps build that in, I think could help me budget

(01:00:41):
in the future and help me, you know, tell other people when they ask.
So that makes a lot of sense.
Right, right, right.
It makes sense that you say it's easy digestible where they're like, oh, okay, sorry, $250.
So that could mean if your hotel could be from like a three star, four star, five star,
depending on how we manage those money in between, it will get you like something where

(01:01:04):
it's not like it's like you'll be like in a tent or somewhere where it's like not luxury,
no bathroom, no nothing, unless you want, you could.
But there's ways of how we as like, for me as a DMC on the ground, like a destination
management company, we could be able to twist things and get you like the best for your

(01:01:28):
money.
But like just knowing this is the range that I'm working with.
So yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
So that's good to know.
I think I think that will help a lot of people, a lot of listeners, because that's one of
the biggest thing I think that happened to travel is people just don't know what it costs.
Like how much should this cost?
You know, am I getting taken advantage of if I, you know, and that's one of the reasons

(01:01:49):
why I wanted to do women with this season, because I feel like most of the time, if not
all of the time, women are going to be more honest about how much something costs.
Yeah, they're going to be more honest and more authentic about putting things together.
I mean, even as a homeowner in Atlanta, I feel like half the time I'm like, okay, does
that really cost that much?

(01:02:10):
Let me go Google to make sure it costs $2,000 to do my lawn.
Oh, okay.
It doesn't like, sir, this is wrong.
Then it also depends on the value that's being added.
So let me say, for example, you're talking about retreat.
At retreat, you have various experts who are coming to be able to share more of experience.

(01:02:31):
Those prices will cost a little bit more because now you're bringing all these people to come
together compared to like something where it's, yeah.
So that's, so it would differ.
So you just have, you have to weigh out what is the value that's being added.
If it's just like a basic trip, then you go with that.
But like, if it's like other things that are added on, then it depends who's putting together

(01:02:55):
the packages and what value are they adding.
Yes.
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
Well, girl, it was amazing.
It was so good catching up with you.
It was so good talking to you.
Like, thank you.
You just kind of, how would I explain it?
Like you just kind of were in my spirit.
I was like, Oh, I wonder if she would love to do a podcast.

(01:03:17):
And when I reached out, you were like, yeah, I was like, okay.
So I thank you for accepting my invitation to talk to the masses.
I know a lot of people who have talked about going to Tanzania, talk about the Zandabar.
They don't know where to start.
They don't know what to do.
My cousin was just recently one of them.

(01:03:38):
And I know that this particular episode is probably going to get a lot of people to say,
Oh yes, I know exactly what I can do now.
Let me, let me, let me call up curious on Tanzania and see what they can do for me.
You know, so I thank you for being willing to just talk about your journey and all of
that good stuff.
Yes, definitely.
I really appreciate this conversation.

(01:03:58):
This was wonderful.
I've enjoyed hearing your entire journey and it actually gave me a lot of inspiration as
well.
So thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you so much for tuning in to the Traveling Black Women podcast.

(01:04:19):
You can find us online at www.travelingblackwomen.com and there you can find plenty more travel
resources to help you plan your very next trip.
We've got travel guides, we've got a blog, we've got our blog and you just listened to
our podcast.
I look forward to seeing you around.
Thanks for tuning in.