Returning to Triathlon Training After an Injury

Whether it’s a nagging niggle or a major surgery, injuries are an almost inevitable part of long-term triathlon training. In this episode, Physical Therapy expert Dr. BJ Leeper and Professional Triathlete Elizabeth James share valuable insights to help you return to training stronger and smarter. We’ll cover smart strategies for easing back into training, how to know when to push forward and when to pull back, and even practical tips on modalities and tools to support your recovery. BJ and Elizabeth discuss the mental and emotional challenges of injury recovery, sharing encouraging advice. While we can’t provide one-size-fits-all prescriptions, this episode is packed with actionable guidance to help you return to the sport you love!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Physical therapy expert Dr. BJLeeper and professional triathlete
Elizabeth James.
They are joining us to talkabout how to return to our triathlon
training after an injury or a surgery.
Specifically, there's a lot ofreasons why we can take a temporary
pause on our training andreturning from injury in surgery.
There's.
Yeah, you gotta be careful.

(00:20):
I'm Andrew, the averagetriathlete, voice of the people and
captain of the middle of the pack.
We treat the show like anygood workout.
We'll start with a warmupquestion, settle into our main set
conversation, and then windthings down by having Dr. Leeper
and Elizabeth answer anaudience question on the cooldown.
Lots of good stuff.
Let's get to it.
This is the Tridot podcast,the triathlon show that brings you

(00:44):
world class coaching withevery conversation.
Let's get started with today's warmup.
Big or small, triathlonrelated or triathlon adjacent?
What is the most recent injuryyou have had and how did you get
that injury?
Very excited to hear what ourfolks have to say.
While we're talking aboutcoming back from injury, I thought

(01:06):
let's hear about the last timethe three of us were injured.
So, Elizabeth, tell us aboutyour latest injury.
Mishap, whatever it was.
All right.
Yeah, so my most recent injurywas a sprain of the ligaments around
the big toe joint, which isalso known as turf toe.
I now understand what that isand just how painful it is.

(01:29):
So, yeah, it happened while Iwas pacing a friend in an ultra just
super rocky terrain.
It was at night, stubbed mytoe on a rock and as I said now I
can fully emphasize with whatturf toe is and it seems like such
an insignificant thing, but itwas so painful and it just lingered
forever.
This is one I found incrediblyhard to rehab because it's, I mean,

(01:51):
the big toe's so important.
We use it every single dayjust walking around.
So yeah, turf toe, that wouldbe my most recent.
All right.
It's like when you hurt yourback, right?
You can't do any.
Or your neck like you wake upbecause you slept in your neck.
Wrong.
You can't do anything withoutyour back and your neck.
Definitely highlighted for youthe importance of the big toe.
Yeah, I love it.
Dr. BJ Leeper, turf toe orsomething different.

(02:14):
Oh, man.
I mean, I didn't have anythinggood for this question until just
this last weekend we wentcamping and I decided to be a dad
hero and all the kids werejumping off this like 15 foot cliff
near where we, we were campingand kind of taking the Paddle boards
out.
And I decide, oh, I'm gonnadive like I used to do in middle

(02:36):
school and high school at thehigh, dive at the pool.
And I haven't done a dive forlike 30 years.
How hard get out there?
Yeah, exactly.
And I, I get out there and I jump.
And apparently I did not go asvertical into the water as I thought
I was going to go.
And all of a sudden I, Ithought I literally dislocated, tore

(02:59):
my shoulder off because of theimpact of the water at that height
is enough that you don't wantthose limbs exposed or at weird angles.
And it took my left shoulderand just completely subluxed it and
was sore the whole rest of the weekend.
And I just was so frustratedbecause here I was thinking I was
still 16 again and my body'slike, Nope, you're not BJ.

(03:22):
Mine is actually similar to yours.
Mine is me trying to be alittle younger than, than I am.
July 4th, holiday of 2025, wetraveled to Florida to spend some
time at the beach with myFlorida family.
And so is me and my siblingsand their kids.
And so a bunch of nephews andnieces and aunts and uncles all hanging
out at the beach.
And one of my sister's sonsshout out to my nephew Lane.

(03:46):
He plays soccer and apparentlyis, is every team has been on the
fastest kid on the team.
He's at an age now in juniorhigh where he's faster than all the
adults in his life.
And so, you know, all of theFlorida family is like, oh well,
your Uncle Andrew from Texasis pretty fast.
You know, I wonder if you'refaster now than Uncle Andrew.
All of a sudden this chatterfrom early in the trip becomes me

(04:07):
turning around and you know,the, the three other uncles and some
of the nephews are all gettingin a line and determining how far
we're going to run for a foot race.
And I'm like, guys, I don'tthink you understand.
Like if I go from zero to adead sprint right now without a warm
up, I'm going to pull a muscle.

(04:28):
I'm going to, there's like agreater than 50 chance I pull a muscle.
If we race right now on thebeach, but everybody's lining up.
None of them were concernedabout it.
None of them thought they weregoing to get injured.
And like I, you know, I startwalking that way.
My wife's like, I mean, sheknows how easily I can get injured
and she's like, this is a bad idea.
And so all of a sudden, like,I'm not really ready.
And somebody says, go.
And everybody starts running.

(04:49):
So I'm not, I'm now behind.
And so I start running.
I have to kind of, you know,kick in the third and fourth gear
to catch everybody.
I do catch everybody.
I do pass everybody.
I take the lead with plenty ofroom to go.
And right as I'm kind of likesurging ahead, I sure enough, as
predicted, feel up, feel a popin my quad.

(05:11):
Is it bj Is the quad on thefront of the leg?
Yeah, quadricep, but betweenquadricep and hamstring, I forget
which one's the front andwhich one's the back.
So I feel a pop in myquadricep and I start hobbling.
And everybody else goes by meand finishes and everybody was like,
yeah, you hurt yourself?
I'm like, yeah, I'm 37 years old.

(05:33):
I'm an easily injured athlete.
I have to warm up before I dosomething like this.
Hey, guys, we're gonna, we'regonna throw this question out to
our audience.
I'm excited to hear what wasyour most recent injury?
From turf toe to shoulders topulling quadriceps.
Hopefully you guys have havesome good ones and hopefully they,
hopefully they're good stories but.
But weren't too bad of aninjury to recover from.

(05:53):
We'll throw this question outon all of the tried out social media
accounts.
So go find the post asking youwhat was the most recent injury you
had.
Our podcast is now on YouTube.
It is now on Spotify in boththose places as a video podcast.
So you can watch us have this conversation.
You can watch BJ Leeper sharethe story of him diving into the
Montana water and separatinghis shoulder.

(06:14):
But in those places, YouTubeand Spotify, you can answer this
question as well and we lookforward to seeing what your most
recent injury is.
Let's go.
All right, on to the main setwhere Coach Elizabeth and Dr. BJ
Leeper are going to talk to usabout coming back from an injury.

(06:34):
If you, you know, do a sprintrace on the beach and pull your quadricep
and you're coming back totraining from injury, how do you
go about doing that?
How do you go about makingsure you're easing back into the
training correctly?
And bj, before we startgetting into specifics, I kind of
have like a two part challenge here.
I've got a challenge to theboth of you to give us today as actionable

(06:58):
of advice and as practicaladvice as you can, because I know
the answer to every questionI'm going to ask today.
Could Very well be, it depends.
It depends, it depends.
It depends on the athlete, thesituation, the injury, their history.
I know that.
So, so please, my challenge toyou try to give us as actionable
of advice as you can.

(07:18):
The challenge to our listenersis to do the best you can to hear
what Elizabeth and BJ have tosay and, and put, put, put your thinking
cap on and apply it to yoursituation because they can only get
so specific today withsomething as variable as returning
to injury.
So there's my, my double disclaimer.
The challenge to the audience,challenge to our, our experts.

(07:38):
We're going to do the best wecan to give some practical advice
today and some learning opportunity.
But BJ, in, in light of mejoking, but not jokingly saying that
how individualized does areturn to training plan need to be
for an athlete?
Well, you've already taken allof my context away of using that.

(07:59):
It depends because that'spretty much every answer.
Right?
But yeah, I, and to yourpoint, Andrew, like we, we know it's,
it's individualized, but Ithink there's some general things
we can focus on that are, arehelpful for anybody struggling with
an injury or going throughthat process.
And, and I always break itdown into, into two things.
It's like strategies versus tactics.

(08:22):
And I think a lot of us tendto get so wrapped up in the tactics
of like what do I specificallyneed to do?
But I think you need to keepthat lens on of looking at the overarching
strategy of how you'reapproaching your return.
So there's certain principlesand guidelines that can definitely
be applied to almost all of usas we're going through that return
to training approach following injury.

(08:44):
But, but obviously dependingon the injury, the approach will
need to be individualized asit should be.
But one thing I think that's abig nugget to hang on as we talk
about return to injury.
Is one of the main goals asyou're returning to injury is to
reduce the risk of furtherinjury or future injury, obviously.

(09:05):
And that is one of our biggestindicators, especially in the medical
world.
One of the first things we askis we work with athletes and patients
is what's your injury history?
Because the biggest indicatorof future injury is previous injury.
So I think as we look attrying to prevent future injury,
we have to be realistic andunderstand the history and obviously

(09:26):
that history for each personis individual.
Yeah, no, great B.J.
thanks so much for kind ofgiving us just a framework for this
conversation right throughthat answer.
And again for athleteslistening today, I mean There is
no telling, you know, what,what your injury stories are and
what you'll experience in the future.
And so as you hear the advicetoday, the wisdom today, you know,

(09:47):
in, you know, you try to takewhat you hear and apply it to your
situation when you get there.
And I'm sure, like Elizabethand BJ will probably tell us in this
episode, work with aspecialist in your area if you can,
if the injury is bad enough.
But we'll get to that here ina little bit.
So let's get right into thebig question.
And this is when we are outfor an injury, how do we determine

(10:09):
when and how to return to training?
You know, what are the factorsin our body cues that we should consider
before making that return?
Dr. B.J.
Yeah, and these, these are twohuge questions, right?
The, the when and the how.
And one thing I always, andI've, I think I've shared this story

(10:29):
before, even on a previouspodcast, but one thing I always reference
in kind of addressing thequestion of even just when is going
back to high school.
And this car that I drove inhigh school, starting as a sophomore
in high school, I had this old 92.
I mean, at the time, it waspretty hot car.
It wasn't bj, We're a video podcast.

(10:51):
I can pop this on the screenif you send me this picture.
It was a 92 Toyota Celica.
And I drove that car fromsophomore year of high school, literally
20, 25 years, because I justloved that car.
I drove it forever.
Even as I got older, everybodyat work was like, why are you still
driving that thing?

(11:12):
But I just loved it.
But the funny thing about itwas occasionally being an older car,
as it got advanced in years,it started to have the check engine
light that would pop on occasionally.
And at first it was like, oh,what's going on?
I took notice.
And then over time, I'drealize, well, I didn't do anything

(11:32):
about it.
And here it is, two dayslater, it's gone, right?
So I'm like, well, I guess outof sight, out of mind.
I don't need to worry too muchabout it.
And then as it got older andas I got older, it would start to
come on and stay on for, forweeks to the point where I was still
hoping it would just go away,but still didn't want to do anything
about it because I was just,you know, it was a reliable car overall,

(11:55):
but I was just kind of lazy atthat point.
I'm like, I don't want to dealwith it.
And it got to A point where Iwas so annoyed with that check engine
light being always on that Iwould take a strip of like black
electrical tape and cover itover the dashboard so I didn't have
to see it.
It was like this.
Just in my mind, if it couldbe out of sight, I would have to
worry about it.
If I didn't see it, it wasn'ta big deal.

(12:17):
And I think that's often howwe deal with injuries, especially
when there are those checkengine light warning signs on.
Like even if we know there'sbeen an incident and we've been injured,
it's like that when of how dowe know when we're, when we're ready
to go back?
Like, when should we take itin and shut it down and really deal
with it?
And I think there's certainred flags, like those check engine

(12:39):
light indicators where we justhave to really know our body and
really be in tune with it.
You know, for example, ifyou're still, if you're taking ibuprofen
every single session in orderto just execute it and get through
it.
You know, we always joke,it's, it's even Vitamin I we call
it because it's ibuprofenbecomes a staple.

(13:00):
Like those are indicators,those are red, you know, check engine
lights that, that need to belooked at if you're having pain,
not just later in theactivity, but right from the onset
activity, and it doesn'timprove as the activity goes on.
Like that's a big red flag.
If basic movements, justsquatting, stepping, reaching to

(13:20):
touch your toes, like when youget out of bed in the morning.
If those basic movements arepainful, it's no longer a fitness
issue, it's a health issue.
So I think as triathletes, andwe're probably the worst at this
because we were known to pushjust through anything.
I think it's number one.
When should you return to training?
It's like, well, when arethose check engine lights obvious

(13:43):
cues, obvious indicators offthe table?
If those are off the table,then, okay, let's start to approach
training and then how do we do that?
It's like, well, you know,there's no exact science answer to
it, but I think there'scertain indicators you have to look
at.
And I always use the strategyof a three point pain check principle.
So meaning if you decide,okay, red flag indicators off the

(14:07):
bat are off the table.
I'm getting back into training.
Do I have pain at any pointduring that training?
If I can check no on that box,okay, did I have pain or discomfort
due to that activity ortraining later on that day, did I
have pain or discomfortbecause of that training when I woke
up the next morning?
If you can check no on allthree of those counts, you're likely

(14:30):
returning to training in anappropriate manner.
But if you can check the boxlike, yep, that got me.
You probably need to adjust.
And so again, it's, it's not agreat answer, but it's more of a
principle of how do youapproach it?
And I think it's just, again,nobody knows your body better than
you, and when in doubt, don't.
What, what I like about thatanswer, bj, you say it's not a great

(14:51):
answer, but I, I think it's aphenomenal answer because I think
I, I know for myself and I'msure for a lot of the folks listening,
like that reminder to if thatengine light is on still, right?
Like, you, especially ifyou're coming off like, like, like
an injury where you reallyhurt something, right?
Like, you could feelexponentially better but still have

(15:14):
a little pain or a littletightness or a little something,
right?
And be like, oh, I feel better.
I think I'm good enough to try it.
It's like, no, no, no, thatlight is still on.
Like, clear that light first.
Don't be like, Dr. B.J.
leaper, Celica, clear thelight first and then start training
or else you could, you know, re.
Injure yourself again.
So I think in most cases,definitely speaking for myself, I,

(15:35):
I usually try it probably alittle too soon when I, I feel like,
okay, I'm close enough, let'stry, let's try a soft run and see
how it goes.
And, yeah, the light's still on.
And even though you feel alittle bit better.
And so, yeah, I, I really likethat answer, Elizabeth, just from
your own experience and as youtalk with your athletes and coach
your athletes, is thereanything different you say or additional

(15:56):
points you point out to themwhen it comes to time for them to
return from an injury?
Yeah, certainly nothing different.
I'm sure that, you know, BJ'shelp guiding me back from a number
of injuries plays.
Plays a big role in how Iapproach things with the athletes
I coach now.
But one of the things that, asI'm talking with them and we talk

(16:17):
through, it's like if yousought medical help and the advice
of a medical professional inthis injury, then we also need clearance
from them to return.
And I kind of, you know, viewthat with injury or illness.
It's like if you went to thedoctor we need the doctor's advice
on when we're okay to return.
You know, if you had surgery,like, I need that orthopedic surgeon

(16:41):
to give us clearance andguidance on when we're going to return.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, type andseverity of injuries is certainly
a factor there.
And really being able to relyon medical professionals and their
advice in terms of a return totraining plan is very helpful.
I definitely do kind of thosethree checks in terms of pain levels

(17:02):
with how does it feel during alittle bit after, what's the next
morning?
And then also looking at, likethe swelling and the inflammation
as well, that, you know, evenif an athlete is like, oh, it doesn't
hurt that bad, but my knee isthree times the size of what it should
be, it's like, okay, yeah,like, even if you're saying that
it doesn't hurt, clearly thebody is giving you that check engine
light or there's a warningsign here that something isn't right.

(17:25):
Kind of same thing with, youknow, range of motion or strength
and muscle control.
Even if something doesn'thurt, but an athlete is adjusting
their gait or adjusting theirpedal stroke for doesn't mean that,
you know, that's not going tocome back in a compensation that's
going to cause a differentissue later.

(17:46):
And so even if they canperform an activity without necessarily
increased pain, but I can seethat they're failing, favoring something,
we, we really need to look atthat because that's where we really,
really are risking, you know,a different injury or a chronic issue
from the compensations thatthey're making.
And then the only other thingthat I would add to this is there's

(18:08):
also a psychological readinessto come back from injury.
And one of the things that Isee this most often is, is, is some
sort of trauma that has happened.
And unfortunately, probablythe biggest case scenario here is,
is a bike crash or if there'sa bike accident between a bike and
a car.
And returning to injury maynot be necessarily a physical limitation,

(18:33):
but they may not be ready to,to get back on the bike yet.
We may need to do, you know,some, some mental work first to really
have them feel comfortable andfeel safe.
In order to do that, and wemay need to modify some things as
well and, you know, go back toeasier training sessions, go back
to indoor training sessions.
It might be a while until thatathlete is psychologically ready

(18:56):
to take on some of thosetraining sessions again.
And I think that that's animportant component that we really
need to think about.
With injury.
Um, and I'm sure it'ssomething we'll touch on a little
bit later, too, with just themental component as well as the physical.
Yeah, really interesting, Elizabeth.
Andrew, if I can jump in,because I think what EJ just said
right there is huge.
We know that pain is aconscious feeling produced by the

(19:20):
brain 100% of the time.
And Elizabeth mentioned agreat word, trauma.
And it's not just the traumaof, like, something that we would
all assume is traumatic, likea crash, but any injury, depending
on the level and how itaffected that that athlete is traumatic.
And how the brain responds tothat and how the brain encapsulates

(19:43):
that moment of time or momentof period of time with that injury
is huge, because the body andthis is huge.
The point of what Elizabethsaid with working with a professional
to help guide that return totraining, because you can still be
dealing with that feeling ofpain and that trauma in your brain,

(20:04):
but mechanically andchemically, your body has cleared
that injury and the injury hashealed, but yet you still feel something
that's very real to youbecause of that traumatic incident.
And I don't want to dismissthat because that is such a key component
to getting over an injury.
And we'll talk more a littlebit about that, but that's huge.
Yeah, very, very interesting.

(20:24):
Thanks for adding that, bj.
I. I've had a number of tridot athletes ask for an episode like
this for one reason or another.
Right?
But.
But I'm sure it's because intheir current triathlon journey,
they are trying to navigatecoming back from an injury.
And.
And one of those people who'slike, hey, we should do an episode
on Coming Back to Training isone of the producers of our show,

(20:45):
Sarah Bernie.
Sarah is a Try to ambassadorwho works with me on the Try to podcast.
So shout out to her.
She's very helpful in a numberof ways behind the scenes for the
podcast.
But Sarah, a little earlierthis year had a surgery and she is
currently working with herdoctors and the best game plan for
returning to training.
And guys, her doctors are nottriathletes who know what her next

(21:07):
half ironman is on thecalendar and know, you know, just.
Just how strong that pull tocome back can be for a pesky endurance
athlete like us.
So I'm just a little curiousfor Sarah personally and anybody
else who's like, Sarah, isthere a difference between coming
back to training from amedical procedure, like some form

(21:28):
of surgery, and coming backfrom hurting something like pulling
a muscle or having turf toe or.
Or Is it just different formsof bodily trauma that we have to
rebound from?
And then I guess, wrapped upin this as well.
Just making this a verycompound question for you, B.J.
so get ready.
You know, wrapped up in hereas well is, is how much do we listen

(21:50):
to the advice of a medicalpractitioner who is not endurance
athlete, savvy?
Do we, do we listen to themall in on their timetable for return
or should we also consult withsomebody who is a little bit more
athletic, Trained a lot there.
Bj, Take it away.
Yeah, it's a great questionand I think it makes a lot of sense.

(22:12):
But first and foremost, thefirst question of, you know, dealing
with a surgery or a plannedprocedure versus a typical injury
or run of the mill, whatever,you know, physiologically, we know
that tissue is tissue.
You know, your tissue doesn'tknow whether it had surgery or some
type of different trauma.
The mechanisms technically ofhealing are still the same, however,

(22:36):
because we know that surgeryinvolves, you know, a primary intention
of the surgeon.
We know that that's done for areason and in a certain way so that
hopefully the speed andcharacteristics of that healing can
be faster, they can be different.
So there's less complicationspotentially with, with the healing
of a surgical incision withminimal scarring and whatnot than

(23:00):
some other type of injury.
And I think along those lines,you know, there are certain protocols
because surgeons and doctorshave worked with those types of procedures
over time, so they know ingeneral what works well, maybe what
doesn't.
So obviously there's certainprotocols to abide by in the early
stages of healing that, thatyour doctor is going to be the expert

(23:21):
on.
But to your second question,when you get to that point of bridging
the gap back into the thingswe love with training and racing,
especially with triathlon,there is a bridge to gap, you know,
a gap to bridge, so to speak,that is going to be different and
the context of that isdifferent and different demands that
a triathlete has and just yourgeneral Joe that wants to get back

(23:45):
to walking and going up, down,down the stairs.
So I think it is key to alignwith a physician, a provider that
understands your goals andwhat you're trying to get back to.
And like we said earlier,nobody knows your body better than
you.
But at the same point of whatEJ said, like, you need the guidance
of that medical provider attimes to make sure you're doing the

(24:06):
right things.
I think aligning with theprovider, because being one of those
medical providers, the firstthing I'm doing is making sure I'M
taking the time to listen andalign to what the athlete or the
patient is telling me whattheir goals are and where they're
at.
And as a patient or as anathlete, on the other side of it,

(24:28):
if you're finding that thatmedical provider is not listening
to you, not really hearingyou, even though you might be the
one pushing and they're theones pulling back, if you're not
able to meet in the middle oryou don't feel like there's alignment
there, then you can be anadvocate for your own healthcare
and pursue somebody that youfeel like does align.

(24:49):
That doesn't mean you're justfiring every provider because they're
not giving you the answer you want.
I'm going to go ask mom forpermission because dad said no.
But there needs to be analignment and there needs to be that
understanding.
And I think most people get itwhen that provider is not just, okay,
yeah, yeah, whatever, I got toget it to my next patient.
But they're actually hearingyou and understanding, oh, I get
it.

(25:09):
Let's work together on this.
That's obviously key.
Yeah.
Elizabeth, as you're coachingyour athletes, is, is this something
that comes up?
Have you walked through thesekind of scenarios with an athlete
who's wanting permission fromcoach to train, but you're, you're
trying to talk to the, the,the, the providers to make sure it's
okay?
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I was like nodding and smiling.

(25:31):
I mean, the whole time as BJwas talking about this, I, I can
think of examples like from myown, like, return to training and
then ones with my athletes.
I, I specifically remember thefirst time I ever had something done
on the, on the hamstring thatI had torn.
The doctor told me, he's like,all right, like, you know, just walking.
And I was like, all right,well, what are my limitations on
walking?
He's like, oh, walking is solow volume.

(25:53):
Like you can walk as much asyou want.
And I went back in for afollow up like three weeks later.
And you know, me and my littlecalendar, I, I've got, you know,
my homework that I'm ready toturn in.
And he's looking at this.
He's like, you walk like 10kevery day.
And I was like, yeah.
And he was like, what, whatare you like, why?
And I was like, well, you said.

(26:14):
I could walk functions of walking.
And he was like, that's,that's way too much.
And I was like, like, we.
Same page.
Exactly.
I was like, oh, man, he didn't.
Know who you were he didn'tknow what you're about.
Yeah, we all saw that, wherethat was going.
Yep, exactly.
And so finding medicalprofessionals that you can really

(26:36):
have good alignment with is key.
And that's something that Ihave found is super important for
me.
And I. I told the physicaltherapist that I've been working
with all of this year.
I was like, look, you have togive me very strict guidelines, because
any leeway you give, I'm goingto take, because I'm so anxious to
get back to this.
And so if there's somethingthat's a hard no, like, I need to

(26:58):
know that that's a hard no.
It's not a maybe, or you cantry it and you can see it's like,
no, absolutely not.
Like, we're not cleared forthat yet.
And so I know myself, I knowthat I need those strict guidelines,
and I. I also know that I needto find medical professionals that
are not afraid to tell methat, because that.
That works well for me.

(27:18):
I mean, I've gone through anumber of physical therapists in
order to find one that reallyjived well with me, my goals, the.
The type of communication,getting me back to where I wanted
to be.
And that was.
And Elizabeth, when you saythat, when you say that this, the
one you're with now, you drivewell with them.
That doesn't just mean thatthey give you permission to do what
you want to do.
Right.

(27:40):
In fact, quite the opposite.
Okay.
It's been the most strict andthe person that's given me the most
limitations, and that's beenvery helpful for me and has kept
me continually progressingversus somebody that gives me a little
more leeway and I go when I dotoo much.
So, yeah, it.
It's been great.
And I mean, same thing withthe athletes that I work with.

(28:01):
You know, we.
We work to find that gradualprogression, that kind of individualized
approach.
We're continuously monitoringthe symptoms.
I mean, I. I think sometimesmy athletes get annoyed with me because
I'm like, well, how did itfeel after?
And then I'll text them againa few hours later.
I was like, well, how's yourpain level now?
And then I'll check in againthe next morning.
I was like, how are we feelingbefore we're going into this training

(28:23):
session?
But, I mean, I do.
I want to just monitor thosesymptoms continuously and make sure
that, like, the gradualprogression that we're going on is.
Is appropriate for them.
And so I think that those are,you know, some big guidelines when
I'm looking at an athleteComing back myself.
Coming back gradualindividual, continuously monitoring.

(28:44):
So.
So, Elizabeth, part of why Ibrought you onto this episode with
Dr. B.J.
leeper, unfortunately, isbecause you are an athlete that in
the last couple years has hada number of different injuries in
the time that I've known you.
I. I get so.
Annoyed is the wrong word.
Jealous, maybe a little envious.
And I'm sure you're probablythe same way.
I know athletes that.

(29:05):
That.
There's a girl I used to workwith in television that was a producer
at the network.
I was at her Strava.
She was just a runner, not a triathlete.
But her Strava, she loggedlike two 140something miles on the
year, and I ran like 600 that year.
Next to swimming and biking.
Right.
As well.
But I'm doing all my thingsand I'm picking up a niggle here,

(29:30):
a nick there, a limp there,and she's just always fine.
She can run endlessly and it'salways fine.
And I know other athletes like that.
You and I aren't that way.
You and I will hurt ourselvesvery deeply and very badly if we
do too much to whatever.
If we look the wrong way at atrack, we can hurt ourselves.
Um, and so, Elizabeth, whatI'm curious to hear from, just from
your personal experience, howhas the return from injury been like

(29:55):
injury to injury?
You've had a variety ofdifferent injuries.
Is the protocol always kind ofsimilar, or is it just very different
based on what the injury was?
Yeah, that's.
That's a great question.
I would say that the generalguidelines for returning to training
have applied to, I mean, allof the injuries that I've had.
Um, but what has been verydifferent is the rate of progression

(30:19):
and then the types ofactivities that I've been able to
do during specific points ofthe rehab process.
For example, like, coming backfrom broken bones has been much easier
than soft tissue and.
And tendon.
Yeah, interesting.
Yeah, interesting.
I mean, when I broke my hand,I, you know, crashed my bike, broke
my hand.
I was in a cast for eight weeks.
What?

(30:39):
Won a race on the trainer.
Won the race when you brokeyour hand.
Let's throw that one down.
That's true.
It does make for a good story.
Y. Um, but yeah, I mean, I wasin a cast for eight weeks, but I
could still bike on the trainer.
I could run outside.
I. I could even get in thepool and do some kick drills.
And so that was like, veryminimal in terms of rehab.
Just put the hand in the castfor eight weeks.

(31:00):
But like, when I had surgeryon my hamstring, I was limited.
I mean, I know we just jokedabout this, but limited to only walking
for a few months.
And I eventually pulled thatback into a very manageable walking
load.
Um, and one of the things thatI found, and we touched on this a
little bit earlier too, aboutthe, the mental side of things, is

(31:21):
that I have found that themore physical limitations that I've
had, I've also really had tobe proactive on my attitude and like,
other supportingrehabilitation activities.
And so making sure that I havea very clear plan and celebrating

(31:42):
progress along the way hasbeen super important.
When my hand was in a cast, I,I didn't feel very limited.
I, I really didn't see thatas, like a major injury.
I mean, despite a broken bone,because there was still so much that
I could do now when I was downto just walking and really peeled
that back to 15, 20 minutes a day.

(32:04):
I mean, I, I really had towork on my attitude and really had
to focus on, okay, what can Ido right now?
And, and how can I still stay involved?
Because I was missing notonly, you know, hours of activity,
but the endorphins that goalong with that.
And I wasn't getting thedopamine hit.
And so it's like, I need tosupport myself mentally when physically

(32:28):
I'm very limited.
And so for me, I would say,you know, general guidelines of gradual
progression and monitoringsymptoms have been similar in all
the injuries, but the morethat we take away the physical part
of it, I've had to work evenharder on the mental component to,
to stay positive, stay strong,celebrate the wins, and, and really

(32:50):
just define what that pathback was going to be.
Yeah, thanks so much forsharing that.
And, and bj, something I'mcurious about is, you know, earlier
we talked about the checkengine light, and you kind of gave
us the disclaimer that, thatwhatever the surgery was, whatever
the injury is, as you'recoming back, you know, don't make
sure that check engine lightis off before you start really training.

(33:12):
Right.
And so if there's an athleteat home, they've experienced something,
they're, they're.
They're kind of pumping the brakes.
They're waiting, they'rewaiting, they're waiting.
They feel good.
Okay, I listen to Dr. Leaper.
I think the check engine lighthas, has kind of clicked off at that
point.
Can we jump back in full steamor is there some sort of protocol

(33:32):
for easing back into thetraining, or does it depend.
Please tell us.
Guess.
Guess.
What I'm gonna say.
I, it depends.
It depends.
Yeah.
No, you gave him permission touse it.
He's been wanting to use itall episode.
Now that's another great question.

(33:53):
I, you know, very rarely areyou able to jump back just full,
full steam, 100% most of the return.
I mean, even if even, even thejudgment on when to come back to
training is, is still aguessing game, truly.
I mean there are certainindicators, like we talked about,
that you got to make sure toclear, but it's, it's literally hard

(34:13):
to know for everybody.
And then even when you doreturn, it's, it's, it's very, very
rare that you just pull back,you know, full steam ahead 100%.
So I think it's good forathletes to understand that this
is going to be a rollercoaster ride like that's expected
very rarely linear progressionthat you just knock it out of the
park.
Even like with whatElizabeth's talking about, with good

(34:36):
guidance and a provider thatreally dials her in and keeps her
on, on track, very rarely areyou going to hit right at that razor's
edge.
We always talk about thisrazor's edge of the threshold of
your ability because ideallywith return to training, you want
to be pushing to that razor'sedge without exceeding it.

(34:56):
Right?
Without exceeding it andrisking re injury or chemical irritation,
all these things.
If you can push to thatrazor's edge without exceeding it
and continue to progress asefficiently and as rapidly as you
can, that's the ideal.
But to hit that nail on thehead is very tricky.
And so again, like we saidearlier, a lot of times, especially

(35:18):
as a triathlete or a runner,you're going to push, the provider
is going to pull back and tryto pull you back.
And then hopefully you'remeeting in the middle, which is that
razor's edge.
And that's why sometimes yousee different providers where they're
going to be extremely conservative.
They're going to pull back farbelow that razor's edge, which may

(35:38):
be good for certainindividuals, may not be.
It depends too on thepersonality of the individual.
Like if I've got an athleteI'm working with who I know they're
going to be walking 10k everyday like TJ I might need to put those
guardrails up and really pullthem back so that we can continue
to have more a linear, linearapproach and less of the roller coaster

(35:59):
ride.
But all that said, you'renever going to nail it a hundred
percent right out of the gate.
So I think it's good to know.
Number one, probably not goingto jump back full steam.
But number two, you can getback efficiently as long as you're
looking at those indicatorslike we talked about, those red flags.
One other big thing to notethat I think is really, really interesting

(36:21):
and to bring up even right nowis that as you're returning back
from injury and like we talkedabout, you're never going to hit
it perfectly in a linearfashion when you do have those setbacks
in those episodes, like whereyou do maybe hit I had pain during
or later or that next day.
Oftentimes as you're and I'veseen this before, and this is something

(36:43):
that not a lot of people talkabout, is the way your body responds
and returns back to normalmovement is through what we call
the neuroplasticity of motorprogramming or motor packages.
And the way I explain this topeople is like when you first learned,
for example, how to shoot afree throw, you went through all

(37:05):
the individual steps, thedrills that a coach.
I don't think I've everlearned how to properly shoot a free
throw.
BJ I'm never, I'm 5, 6 ish.
So I.
We play different sports.
I played basketball.
So that's what I relate to.
I'm tracking with you.
I'm tracking with you.
But as you learn thoseindividual drills and all the parts
that go into shooting a freethrow, as you develop that pattern,

(37:27):
your brain and the way yourbody operates is very efficient in
that it doesn't say, okay, dothis with your hand, do this with
your elbow, do this with your form.
It says, just activate thefree throw shooting package.
And that package is stored aslike a book on the bookshelf in your
brain so that every time youdo it, you grab that book and you
execute that pattern.

(37:48):
And that is how we operatewith everything.
Running, walking, riding a bike.
We operate in motor packages.
So think of all these books onthe bookshelf that your brain is
constantly grabbing to execute movement.
The opposite is also true.
When you develop a badpattern, a bad book on that bookshelf

(38:09):
due to injury, because of painand a trauma or whatever, that book
exists on the bookshelf and isnever going away.
And it sounds weird to saythat a lot of people think when they're
returning from injury andthey're doing rehab or whatever,
whether it's with a provideror not, a lot of people assume that
they're just taking that badbook and they're rewriting the pages

(38:31):
of it, but that's not exactly true.
And how the brain and theneuroplasticity of our patterns are
made.
So what I tell patients andathletes is that as you're returning
back from injury, we're, we'recreating that new book.
And our hope is that as we'reprogressing you in, in hopefully
a linear fashion, as much aswe can get away from the roller coasters,

(38:54):
that you're grabbing that goodbook every time or more often than
not.
But the reality is, even ifyou get months out from injury and
you've been grabbing the bookgood, the good book pattern, more
often than not, there stillexists the capacity for your brain
to go bad book pattern.
And you might feel pain as aresult of that pattern or feel that

(39:15):
compensation.
That's not because you'restill injured or not because you
still have tissue damage ormechanical injury.
It's simply because your brainaccessed the bad book.
And that knowledge issometimes so powerful for athletes
to understand as they'recoming back to know.
I might be one month in andI'm doing great, I'm having great

(39:36):
sessions, I'm getting back,and then all of a sudden, boom, bad
book hits and you feel likeyou're back to square one.
And like, like Elizabeth said,psychologically that is such a hard
thing to deal with.
But knowing that, how theneuroplasticity of the brain works
and knowing that that'spossible, not to say that you can't
start getting inflammationchemically and mechanical injury

(39:58):
again because you're exceedingyour threshold.
But oftentimes it's still justa bad book pattern that you just
have to brush off.
Okay, it's okay.
I'm going to go back, get thegood reps, good book pattern, and
continue to move on.
So I bring that up becausethat's something that I never learned
in school.
That's something a lot ofathletes and patients coming back

(40:19):
from injury don't necessarilyrealize that that can be happening
in their brain.
And again, remember, pain issomething that your brain produces.
Pain is not necessarilybecause you had this mechanical injury
that produces pain.
There can be a stimulus thatgets sent to your brain and then
your brain interprets it as pain.
But pain is 100% produced bythe conscious perception in your

(40:44):
brain.
So again, when we talk aboutpain, a lot of times it's powerful,
really empowering to know that information.
And there's a great book, andI've probably mentioned this before
on a previous podcast wherewe've talked about pain specifically,
but there's a great book by aneuroscientist named Lorimer Moseley,
and it's called Explain Pain.
That talks a lot about thedetails of that.

(41:05):
So I'll often have patients orathletes, if I know they're dealing
with that roller coaster ride,I'll often have them reference that
book just so they can wraptheir mind around it.
And sometimes just theknowledge of that is powerful to
progressing past that injury.
That whole bad book, goodbook, like the visualization illustration

(41:31):
of neuroplasticity, that islike, for me, like a top four.
Try that podcast.
Just individual fact that I'veever heard.
Like, I'm.
I'm sitting here, like, that'sjust like wrecking my brain.
Like, like.
Elizabeth, please, please respond.
What.
What did.
What did you think hearing that?
That was.
That was like four.

(41:51):
Four minutes of justfascinating factoids from Dr. Leaper.
This has been a saving gracefor me.
I mean, truthfully, I. I canthink back as.
As I was coming back fromhamstring surgery.
I specifically remember thatthere was one of the, like, threshold
interval bike rides and, youknow, Tuesday morning trainer session.

(42:14):
And I am nailing it.
It's going so well.
But there's pain.
And, you know, I stop for asecond and, like, the pain is gone.
And it's like, okay, wait,wait a second here.
Like, what.
What's going on?
You know, I start again andlike, there's.
There's pain again.
And it's.
And it can be so difficult forathletes because that pain is real.

(42:37):
Like, it.
It truthfully hurts.
But I had to go back to, like,this is bad book.
This is bad book.
Like, physically, I am ahundred percent capable of doing
this immediately.
When I stop the interval, I'm fine.
And so, I mean, finished outthe workout.
Yeah, it was painful, didn'tfeel good, but I got off the bike

(43:00):
a hundred percent okay.
And the only way that I canexplain that is that was, you know,
bad book pattern and just thebrain saying, like, wow, this is,
you know, a really hard effort.
This is exactly where youwould be in the most pain in the
last couple years.
And so the brain just goesback to, like, threshold intervals
on the bike Tuesday morning.

(43:21):
Like, this hurts.
And it's like, it doesn't anymore.
But it just is.
It's fascinating to me.
And so, I mean, knowing thatis super empowering as an athlete.
I know that without thatknowledge, I totally would have shut
that down and probably not,you know, tried threshold intervals
for another month.
I would have been like, oh,no, it's too painful.
I can't do it.

(43:42):
Even with, you know, thoseother system Checks.
But having that knowledge of,like, okay, what is the brain's influence
in this workout right now?
And what patterns have I just,you know, kind of resorted back to
in this session was veryempowering for me to be able to,
like, move on with the workout progression.

(44:04):
So both of you have mentioned,as an athlete is getting back into
training.
Elizabeth, for you personally,BJ4 athletes you've worked with just
being on the lookout for anyred flags, you know, anything you
might be feeling as you'regetting back into the training, that
might be a red flag.
They're like, up, up.
Maybe the check engine lightisn't fully off or maybe so.
So just before we move onpast, you know, kind of this talk

(44:26):
of getting back into thetraining, okay, what.
What are some examples of ared flag we should be on the lookout
for?
Because I, I don't wantsomebody feeling something in a.
In a session and being like,oh, that was just a bad book thing.
I'm probably fine.
But then having the same flag,a couple workouts in a row, and not
recognizing as a flag.
Cause we didn't get intospecifics here.
So, Elizabeth, can you justkind of share some of the red flags

(44:48):
that you're on the lookout forin your own body when you're coming
back to training, and then,bj, if you kind of fill in any gaps
of things, maybe she doesn'tcover that.
You would tell an athlete tobe on the lookout for when we're
out in those sessions gettingback at it.
Elizabeth?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, I mean, I, I do want tostart with sharp.
You know, we're increasingpain during exercise.
And that's part of the reason,even going back to, you know, the

(45:10):
example that I gave, that Istopped the interval to kind of reassess
what was going on.
Because we do want to makesure that, you know, we are looking
toward those pain cues.
And so that.
That is still a red flag.
We still need to monitor that.
We need to take that seriously.
We need to figure out what'sso sharper.
Increasing pain.
Swelling or like the area isreally warm where the injury site

(45:34):
was is another, you know,thing to monitor.
You know, if there's jointinstability, you just feel like that,
that part of the body or thatstructure is unstable or super weak,
you know, kind of decreasedperformance in the, you know, specific
area that we're.
We're looking at because of an injury.

(45:55):
Um, and then as I kind of wentback to earlier, like, even if there's
not pain, there's not proper technique.
That would be a red flag forme as well, working with an athlete.
And then that night pain orpersistent soreness kind of, you
know, going into how's thepain level a few hours later, how
does it feel the next morningas well?
So those are kind of the mainred flags that I know.

(46:16):
I've got my personal checklist.
And yeah, anytime I'm workingwith an athlete, I those are kind
of the six things.
It's like, all right, let'stalk through these.
What do we feel?
B.J.
anything that she's missingthat you would tell somebody to be
on the lookout for as they'rereturning back?
Yeah, that's great.
And one of the big obviousones that you mentioned is the chemical

(46:37):
inflammation, like the swelling.
Those are kind of the nobrainers obvious, like your body
is responding adversely.
You can see that physicallyfeel that.
But one of the best indicatorswe have is human movement.
And I always say this, butlike if somebody's coming in and
I'm asking them how they feeland they just say, yeah, I feel great.
I'm like, okay, don't justtell me with your mouth, show me

(46:58):
with your movement, show mewith your body.
You have to back that up byshowing me fundamental patterns of
movement that aren't breakingdown and movements that we knew you
had before.
So as you're returning back totraining, we can tell easily, I can
tell without you saying a wordif your movement is getting worse.
And we're talking about basicfundamental movement of squatting,

(47:20):
stepping, lunging, balancing,twisting, turning.
I mean things that arefundamentally, it's not riding a
bike necessarily, if thosethings are changing and they were
good before, then we can saythat you're running a risk of your
body is changing, you're compensating.
Something is not going the waywe want it to.

(47:40):
You're losing that fundamental capacity.
And I think that the difficultthing, especially with triathletes
and some of the best athletesI've worked with are the most challenging
in this area because athleticindividuals are very good at finding
a way, their bodies are verygood at finding a way around the
injury.
And what happens is over timethat leads to dysfunction and can

(48:03):
break down other areas.
So maybe you don't feel pain,maybe you don't feel like you're
in the bad book category, butyour body is showing us, if we were
looking at your basicmovement, that you are compensating
in a certain way.
And those are the things wehave to steer clear of any compensations
that we can see.
So again, not just using apain rating scale, but using movement,

(48:28):
basic movement, as anindicator that if things hurt again,
you don't have a fitness issue.
It's not like, oh, I guess youjust need to get back in shape at
that point.
It's no, there's stillpotentially a health issue here or
a medical issue that needs tobe addressed.
If you feel like a wonkydonkey, go sit down, grab a sweet

(48:49):
tea, watch some tv.
You shouldn't be training today.
That's, that's what I'm.
BJ Something I'm curiousabout, and I know a lot of athletes
are curious about, is how doesTridot as a, as a training system
handle an athlete being outfor a break and then coming back
from injury?
Obviously, we know it'smonitoring our training.
We know that if we're nottraining, there's no training data

(49:11):
going to try dot and thatmeans something to try out.
It's saying, it's picking upon the fact that you're not doing
these sessions because you'vebeen out.
So as somebody returns totraining on try it out, what are
they going to see in theplatform and how does the platform
handle an absence for a while?
Yeah.
And so I've had the privilegeof working behind the scenes with

(49:33):
a lot of the engineers anddata scientists working with Tridot.
So I've been able to see thisand witness what things are, what
things are doing firsthand.
And you know, Tridot has anintelligence engine, the Fit Logic
intelligence engine, thatreally optimizes an athlete's training
program.
Like you said, Andrew, basedon what data the system is seeing

(49:57):
or not seeing.
So whether the athlete isexecuting sessions or not executing
sessions, tride out isconsidering that.
So what it will do is actuallytake this training stress profile
of the athlete that considersthe athlete's age, their gender,
their genetics, basically howmuch stress can that athlete take?
And then as the athlete missessessions, it will start to adjust

(50:20):
session intensity, duration,overall weekly volume, to consider
that, to make sure that if theathlete's missing significant time
that it kind of meets themwhere they're at as they return.
So it's such a great tool tobe able to have that from a programming
and a training standpoint thatyou don't have to guess about that

(50:40):
intensity, the intensity isgoing to be there.
And then based on how youexecute those sessions continues
to drive the system.
So it's a fascinating thing.
And again, it's not one sizefits all.
It's individualized based onthat individual's training stress
profile.
When we're returning theinjury, right?

(51:00):
We are returning from injury.
We got our swim, bike, run training.
A lot of triathletes just in,in their rhythm, do some strength
stuff, probably do somestretching, mobility stuff, stability
stuff.
Just talk to us like is whenwe're coming back from an injury,
should we put any extraemphasis or extra focus, extra time
towards any certain modalityto help support our return from injury

(51:24):
or should we kind of just easeback into all of it at a pretty equal
rate and, and you know, itwouldn't make that much of a difference
to do extra strength or extrathis or extra that.
Does that make sense?
You get what I'm kind ofgetting at.
Should we kind of spend someextra time on, on any one thing to
help support the return to training?

(51:44):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I think the tendency of mostathletes, especially triathletes,
is always, they're alwayslooking for what can I do more?
Like where can I add more hereor there?
And my answer here ishonestly, for most individuals it's
not what you do, it's what youdon't do.

(52:05):
Okay, interesting.
So to be quite honest, with alot of athletes I've worked with,
and especially in thetriathlete world, I've seen this
a lot.
Sometimes an injury has beenthe best blessing in disguise for
that athlete because it'staken them off of some of their training
or all of their training andit's allowed them to focus on things

(52:25):
that they can do, they shouldbe focused on, that they're not taking
the time to do because they'retrying to add so many different things
to their swim, bike and run training.
Or again, look, always lookingfor the one more thing.
But the things that I've foundthat are critical in this path back
are, and sometimes again youhave to pull yourself off of a lot

(52:47):
of training to get thesethings checked off.
But it's, it's spending thetime to focus on things that we consider
domains of movement, health orsome might call wellness, where we
talk about breathing, we talkabout sleep, we talk about nutrition.
You kind of mentioned it,Andrew, talking about fundamental
mobility and stability work,where a lot of people would consider

(53:08):
that specific strengthtraining, stretching maybe that they
don't normally take the timeto do.
You know, behavioral health,like Elizabeth pointed this out too,
like how do you handle allmaybe the non physical stressors
in your life, workrelationships, things that are affecting
you psychologically in yourcomeback from injury.

(53:30):
Like these are things thatsometimes we have to stop and not
do something else in order tofocus on some of these things that
we probably should be doing.
But again, my disclaimer formost athletes is honestly, it's likely
not what you're doing or whatyou're trying to achieve.
It's likely what you're notdoing or what you should not be doing.

(53:53):
So I think that's one of thethings to think about injury as an
opportunity.
It's an opportunity to maybestep back and focus on some of these
other things, these movementhealth domains that you maybe weren't
really spending much time addressing.
Yeah, we're, we're gettingclose to the end of our, our time
today and so I almost skippedthat question.
I'm glad I didn't because thatfeels like such an important warning

(54:16):
reminder to, I think it's soeasy for us to, oh man, we haven't
been swimming, biking and running.
We haven't been doing thesethings that we're used to being able
to do.
We want to get back at it.
We want to get back at it theright way.
And so we can overcompensate,right, by walking 10k per day because
that's what we're allowed to do.
And, and so, yeah, so thanksfor that reminder.
BJ right there.
And Elizabeth, I rememberspecifically when you did break your

(54:38):
hand, you rolled into a couplestaff functions and something like
three times a day you wouldpull out this red light therapy hand
scanner device that was notsupposed to be, but potentially going
to help your bones heal alittle bit faster because that's
the way you roll when it comesback to getting back at it from injury.

(55:01):
And so I'll throw thisquestion to you and then bj, please
fill in any gaps along the way.
But that's an extreme example.
But there, there's things likebraces, there's KT tape, there's
hot and cold lotion.
Like BJ said, vitamin I, ibuprofen.
Are, are, can these be helpfultools just kind of support our body

(55:21):
as we get back into trainingor are they kind of crutches that
are like, you know, probablyhelping us skirt by some sort of
imbalance and we maybeshouldn't use them?
What, what, what are, are yourthoughts and then bj, your, your
thought thoughts as well onusing these kind of aids to support
our body as we're getting backto training?
My take is that these itemscan certainly help like manage some

(55:44):
of the symptoms.
They can provide support, theycan increase an athlete's confidence
as they start to return to training.
But they're certainlycomplimentary tools, so they should
be Used alongside like aproper rehab program that really
focuses on restoring strength,flexibility, function.
And, and as you said Andrew, Imean they can become a crutch.

(56:05):
And so over reliance or likeimproper use of those items can be
counterproductive.
Like we don't want to get intoit being vitamin I where we take
it every single day.
Like, you know, that could besomething that maybe helps you get
through one session in, youknow, a three month period, but that's
not something that we want tobe constant or like constantly relying

(56:27):
on.
And so I'd say, you know,always consider the advice from the
health care professionals, aphysiotherapist regarding, like the
appropriate use of things likea brace or KT tape or like hot and
cold therapy because they,they can help especially in those
initial stages of recovery.
And I think that's where Iwould also put an emphasis here is

(56:49):
that like in those initialstages of recovery, a little bit
of extra support or you know,some hot and cold therapy that might
be appropriate for reducinginflammation or you know, a heat
therapy that supports bloodflow or helps kind of warm the muscles
up prior to training, I thinkthat's absolutely appropriate.

(57:11):
But if you find yourselfconstantly like relying on those
further and further from theactual injury in your return, then
we really need to think aboutif that's become a crutch and if
there's an over reliance onthose things versus addressing the
root cause and the issue.
Yeah, if you need a knee braceto go for a run three months after

(57:34):
a knee injury, you probablydidn't get your knee check, check.
Engine lights all the way cleared.
BJ, anything to add there?
Or EJ crush that one pretty well.
Yeah, 100%.
She's spot on.
And just an anecdote like Ilived this in my college basketball
career.
I had ankle injuries early inmy career.
And then from that day on,early, you know, throughout my career,

(57:57):
I was basically taping bothankles prophylactively every practice,
every game for the rest of my career.
And I, I know for a fact itmade my ankles weaker as a result.
Because if to a certain point,after you've gotten through like
what EJ said, with the healingphase, it can start to facilitate
a dependence and actuallyinhibit and produce higher injury

(58:20):
risk in the future.
So there, there's like, if youthink it's helping early on, go for
it for sure.
But down the road, if youstill are relying on that in order
to just walk or run or dothose things, like you could argue
you may have created acompensation and it would be better
for you to get out of that soyou can continue to do that in the

(58:40):
future.
All right.
Loads of good information onthis conversation.
I thoroughly enjoyed our timetalking about, about this and I know
myself well enough to knowthere's probably going to be a time
in the mid to far future whereI will need this converse to revisit
this conversation and remindmyself of these principles.
Hopefully our audienceexperiences a happy and healthy training

(59:02):
season, whatever season you're in.
But when you do have aninjury, I hope the information you
heard here today is veryhelpful to getting you back into
the training safely and effectively.
But before we go, Elizabeth,you talked so astutely earlier about
the mental side of this andthat's very real.
There's a mental component tocoming back from injury, experiencing

(59:22):
an injury or surgery, whatever.
So just to close out our mainset, like 30 seconds from BJ.
30 seconds from, from EJ.
What encouragement do you havefor an athlete listening today who
is trying to navigate this andis, is feeling any of the emotions
that can come alongside ofcoming back from injury?

(59:43):
What would you say just toencourage them wherever they are
in their journey today, doing this?
Dr. B.J.
Yeah.
Number one, and this is what Iwould tell every patient is you matter
and you have what it takes.
I've seen, and I sound oldnow, but I've been in the clinic
now for almost over twodecades and I've seen so many athletes

(01:00:04):
come back from so manydifferent things that everyone else
would have written them offwith because, you know, the human
body is amazingly resilientand capable of so much more than
we're, we can even understand.
So I would want every athleteto understand that you're not alone.
There's a lot of people thatare going through injuries like these
things you're experiencing,but you have what it takes to get

(01:00:28):
over it.
I've, I've seen so many thingsturn around for people, even if they
think they're, they're written off.
Don't lose heart.
Man.
That's, that's tough to follow.
I, I mean, I just want to saylike, ditto.
Yeah, that's great.
One of the things I've alwaysreminded myself is like, this too
shall pass.
I, I mean, I have to say thatover and over that this is, this

(01:00:51):
is a temporary setback.
And like BJ said, you know,you have the tools and your body
is adaptable.
It's going to come through this.
Just a couple things that I, Itell athletes that I work with too
is like accept and acknowledgethe Emotions, especially initially,
like it is absolutely okay tofeel frustrated and sad and even

(01:01:12):
angry and you know, allowyourself to process through those
emotions and then as you dolike stay connected as you can in
the sport.
I mean social connections aregoing to be very important to maintain
like a healthy well being andthen you know, seek professional
help if that would beappropriate as well.

(01:01:32):
I've consulted with a sportspsychologist and a counselor that's
been very skilled in injuryrecovery support and so professional
guidance is something thatmight be appropriate at a time.
And addressing your mentalhealth alongside your physical health
is going to be important foryou returning strong and being able
to compete in the sport thatyou love.

(01:01:59):
For our cool down questiontoday we have a question from an
audience member like we always do.
And today's question comesfrom Bob.
And Bob wants to know, I'mcurious about the 1 to 10 nutrition
rating we are supposed to giveourselves when starting a Try Dot
account.
Is that a question of howhealthy we eat or is it about caloric
surplus versus deficit orsomething else and how does it impact

(01:02:23):
the sessions?
Tridot gives us very goodquestion from Bob and bj.
Like you said, you work veryclosely with the software development
team.
So I was, I was hopeful youwould have some insight here.
Talk to us about this.
What's this 1 to 10 nutritionrating that we all gave ourselves
when we were onboarding with Tridot?
Yeah, great question.

(01:02:43):
I mean as you know as thosetry that users know that as you're
setting up your account you'rekind of filling out different questions,
answers to different questionsthat help establish your training
profile.
You know there's questions inthere about life stress and your
sleep quality and those aresignificant factors that help make
up your, your training stress profile.

(01:03:05):
As we consider age, gender,genetics, all these different variables.
But the nutrition rating isinteresting in, in that something
that we're looking at with ourdata science team and, and it's just
simply a subjective rating ofwhere do you feel like your, the
quality of your nutrition is.
So it's, it's kind of againsubjective meaning that it's, it's

(01:03:25):
taking into consideration likehow you would rank your nutrition
from not just a quality likehow clean you feel like you eat,
but quantity.
Are you getting the rightamount of calories, enough calories.
And so it's really how youwould rate yourself.
And as we look at our systemand the data we get in over time,
this will likely be somethingwe'll start to incorporate with future

(01:03:46):
training optimization as well.
But it's right now justsomething we track.
So it's interesting data.
Yeah, no, very interesting.
I remember filling out thatnumber myself and I think I gave
myself a seven or an eight.
You know, my wife and I, we,our meals are generally pretty healthy.
We like, you know, fruits andveggies and grains and our meals
are usually pretty solid.
What gets me is the snacks.

(01:04:06):
I can certainly, you know, grab.
Grab a bag of pretzels andhave too many snacks a little too
often.
EJ, is this a 10 for you?
Are you a 10 on the tried outnutrition rating?
No.
You know, Andrew, and I'm, I'mgonna shift some of this blame over
to you.
You're the one that introducedme to crumbl cookies.
So, yeah, no, like I would sayday to day, really great.

(01:04:29):
But I love dessert.
Love dessert.
So, yep, that, that's alwaysgonna be a little bit of my downfall.
Thanks for listening to theTry Dot podcast.
Help us out by leaving arating and review on your listening
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(01:04:51):
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Head to tridot.com and getstarted for free.
Until next time, happy training.