Tim & Rinny's 6 Lessons for a Long-Lasting Triathlon Journey

Staying in the sport of triathlon takes the right motivation, dedication, and a healthy mind and body. IRONMAN World Champion Mirinda Carfrae and IRONMAN Champion Tim O'Donnell both enjoyed long and rewarding professional triathlon careers and continue to train while coaching Team Salty Bears. So naturally they are perfect to share the six lessons they learned to help have a long-lasting journey in triathlon. Tim and Rinny teach us the importance of always redefining goals and share tips for avoiding burnout. They stress the importance of strength sessions and adjusting your training when needed. Armed with wisdom from Coach Tim and Coach Rinny you will be all set to enjoy this sport for many more years to come!

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to the Tried out podcast.
On the show today, we haveIronman world champion Mirinda Carfrae
and Ironman champion Tim o'Donnell joining us to share their
six tips for longevity in triathlon.
They both enjoyed longprofessional careers and now coach
athletes through Team Salty Bears.
They are the perfect coachesto teach us about how to enjoy a

(00:22):
long, healthy journey in triathlon.
I'm Andrew, the averagetriathlete, voice of the people and
captain of the middle of the pack.
As always, we'll start offwith our warmup question, settle
into our main set conversationwith Tim and Rennie's tips, and then
wind things down by having ourcoaches answer an audience question
on the cooldown.
Lots of good stuff.
Let's get to it.

(00:43):
This is the Tridot podcast,the triathlon.
Show that brings you worldclass coaching with every conversation.
Let's get started with today's warmup.
Tim and Rennie, for our warmup question today, I want to know,
if you were to register for atriathlon relay event and could have

(01:05):
any two professionaltriathletes as your teammates, who
are you choosing?
And they can be currently inthe pro field, they can be retired,
they can be alive or dead.
Anybody in the history oftriathlon, who would you want on
a relay team with yourself?
Coach Rennie, what do you think?
I would pick a couple of oldfriends, retired triathletes.

(01:26):
I go for the fun factor.
I'd probably pick two of mybiggest training partners over the
years, Julie Dibbons and Laura Bennett.
Just because, I mean, I thinkit'd be just a lot of fun if I'm
picking myself on that team.
We're not going to win anything.
So would you do the run,Rennie, Would you do the run?
Absolutely.
I don't do anything else anymore.

(01:48):
I would probably drown if Ihad to swim.
So yeah, I'd do the run.
I'd have Julie do the bikebecause actually she's in really
great bike shape.
And always in great bike shape.
Swimming more, but she was agreat swimmer, so I think we'd still
do pretty good.
Yeah, I, I, I'm confident youprobably would as well.
Yeah, yeah, those are, yeah,you, do you think Rennie legitimate,
like, let's say you call themup after this podcast recording and

(02:10):
talk them into it.
Pick it, pick a raise, register.
Do you think you guys would,like, be able to unplug and just
like, have fun and do yourbest but not like, or do you think
you would be competitive andlike, try to win?
Female masters division?
I think Laura and I would havefun, but Julie is a competitive person
and she's still extremely fiton the bike, so I feel like she would

(02:30):
be maybe pushing us forward,but I, I feel like we could just
get the, you know, the funfactor going and I certainly could
just have fun with it.
Yeah.
Very, very good coach.
Tim, same question over to you.
I'd go for the win.
I would, I would take CamWharf on the bike and then Christian
on the run for sure.
And then I know I can.

(02:50):
I'm not swimming much, but Iknow I can still swim faster than
Cam, so he wouldn't mindhaving me as a swimmer.
But he obviously is aprofessional on the bike, right?
Like not, not justprofessional track, professional
cyclist as well.
So yeah, Tim, that's a goodway to stack your team for a win
right there.
I'm gonna take, I'm going totake the Rennie route and try to

(03:11):
make this fun.
And I, I am a mid packathlete, so I'm, I do this for fun
anyway.
Right.
I'm not, I'm not gonna.
If I'm on a relay team, thatrelay team is not winning.
We will do okay at best.
And I, I saw a thing years agowhere a professional marathoner at
the time, MEB Kaflesky, whonow coaches athletes with Run dot.
He.
He did a, a race where they intentionally.

(03:34):
It wasn't like he wasn't inthe professional field.
It, it was a, a local race andhe started in the very back and the
whole bit for like, for thislocal race was like, how much of
the field could MEB passbefore the finish line if he started
dead last?
And I, I don't remember howwell he did.
I'm sure he did very, very well.
But I would take that approach.

(03:55):
So, so let, let, let's say,let's say I do the swim.
I'm a mediocre swimmer.
I would be curious to see howmy two professional triathlete teammates,
how, how far through the fieldcould they get us before the finish
line?
And so the first approach is Icould do this with the two of you
and that would be a blast.
I could swim.
Tim, you could bike.

(04:15):
Rennie, you could run.
And I'm confident y' all wouldpass quite a few folks on your way
to the finish line.
If I'm picking two currentpros, same concept, let's throw same
long on the bike.
Let's throw Chelsea Sadaro onthe run and let's see how many people
they could pass with Andrewgiving them a mediocre start.
So that's my pick here.
I think it'd be loads of fun.

(04:36):
If the two of you ever want todo that with me, just let me know.
You got my phone number.
We're going to throw thisquestion out to our audience.
Make sure you're on.
You're following us on the socials.
We'll throw this question outon Instagram.
We'll throw it out to the I amtrying to Facebook group.
We will throw it out in theTrident community hub.
Tons of places for you to findthis fun.
Warm up question and let usknow if you were doing a relay with

(04:56):
any two professionaltriathletes, past or present.
Who are you relaying with?
Let's go on to our main setwhere Coach Tim and Coach Rennie
will talk to us about how toenjoy this sport for a long time.
If you love this sport enoughto listen to a triathlon podcast,

(05:17):
you're probably hoping to dothis, you know, more than just one
or two races and be done with it.
So soak in their wisdom today.
They're both still very muchplugged into the sport of triathlon.
And Tim Rennie, just to kickus off here, I saw on the socials
recently that the two of youhad your very first team Salty Bears
training camp.
It looked super fun.

(05:37):
You had a ton of athletesthere, very engaged, some great pictures
on the Instagram.
What kind of adventures didyou and your team get into?
How did your camp go?
It was a really good success,I think.
We were not sure.
I mean, obviously it's ourfirst one.
Tim was not confident that wehad everything sorted out together.

(05:58):
I think mostly because I wastaking the reins on most of the things.
He wasn't sure that I wasbuttoned up.
But yeah, it was wonderful.
It was really great to have you.
We, the athletes we coach areall remote and so we've seen a few
of them here and there at races.
But to get them here in personfor basically almost five days, we

(06:20):
started it off with theBoulder 70.3 and we had some teams
race.
We had four Salty Bears teamsrace and then a couple of athletes
did the whole event.
And then Sunday the campofficially kicked off with the little
run clinic and then barbecueat our house and.
And then from there we reallyjust wanted to showcase some of the
iconic rides and runs here inBoulder and like, give them the opportunity

(06:42):
to feel what it's like to likesort of be a pro for a few days.
We threw in some educationalstuff with Aaron Carson.
You know, we did some bikemaintenance, bike maintenance and
things like that.
So we tried to really justgive them as much information as
possible and great trainingopportunities and like, experiences.

(07:02):
So they had, like, kind of agood mix of both.
And I think the, the best partfor me or the highlight for me was
just seeing, like, athletesthat we coach meet each other.
Yeah, great point.
Make sort of friendships that way.
So that was sort of the best.
Yeah, I've seen theinteractions of the athletes when
you take us out of theequation was, was pretty cool.
But, you know, we were talkingabout relays, Andrew.

(07:24):
And that's how we kicked it off.
You know, we.
We had four salty bears racingrelay teams at the 70.6.
Were you too tempted to jumpin on one or did you, did you make
it clear?
Were you?
So I swam on one, rainy ran on another.
But it was just a really coolway to bring everybody together,
get everybody to know eachother a little bit more before we

(07:45):
kicked off camp.
So by the time, you know, westarted off Sunday with our, you
know, drill session, run andbarbecue, everybody was already best
friends.
Yeah.
I mean, not every athletecould come in early for the Saturday,
so we, you know, had a smallerportion of the team that came for
the, the relays.
But yeah, so then it was justkind of nice that, that was sort
of a nice but.

(08:05):
So.
So the year before Andrew, Iwas on.
I put together a relay team at Boulder.
It was a bunch of retired prodads, so I swam.
Yeah.
At Butterfield road andPatrick McEwen ran.
And I mean, we, we, you know,one by long, one by long shot.
So this guy comes up to us andhe's like, hey, I just want to let
you know you inspired me toput together a relay team to beat

(08:27):
you guys this year.
Like what?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And then we were like, oh, wejust were having fun here.
But we, we did have one fast team.
And now was basically Tim onthe swim.
Brett, one of our coaches, didthe run and my athlete, Kristen Yax,
did the bike and she bikedlike a 220, but yeah, she crashed

(08:49):
it.
21 bike.
But technically they came insecond to an all male team, so I
feel like they kind of won themixed category.
Yeah.
And the mixed relay teamscould be all guys, which I don't
know.
Yeah, we need another category.
Yeah.
But it was still a lot of funand a great way to kick off camp.
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.
That's, that's such a fun wayto do it, for sure.

(09:10):
And I think something that we,I'm trying to mention More and more
on these podcasts.
Like I don't think peoplerealize when you hear a coach on
the tryout podcast like thatthey could become your coach.
Right?
Like we're not, you know,we're here giving information and
you know, I love how with yourcamp you were able to make it very
hands on, you know, working onbike maintenance, working on some

(09:31):
things, you know, you know,run form and in, in person stuff
that you, you can remotelycoach these athletes and talk about
the training and talk aboutthe racing, ask them how they're
fueling.
But hey, we're all in person together.
Let's really get hands on withour, with our coaching here.
And it sounds like you guysdid a great job of that.
I'm sure the athletes loved itand benefited greatly.
If anybody listens today andwants to be a part of Team Salty

(09:51):
Bears in the future, how wouldthey go about plugging in with your,
with your team?
Yeah, just go to saltybearsracing.com or timandrinney.com either
from work and you'll find outall the information about the team.
We of course are optimized byTridot, so we have a lot of great
training program options onthe TR plat platform and we have

(10:13):
pretty cool community as well.
Pretty cool community, prettycool coaches, pretty cool camps.
So yeah, go Team Salty Bears.
Now when you're coaching andworking with your Team Salty Bears
athletes, obviously you'retalking through race strategy, you're
talking about trainingsessions, you're helping them dial
in their, their nutrition, allthe works.
But do you find theconversations ever turning to being

(10:35):
in this sport for the long haul?
I think generally it dependson the athlete.
Right?
Like for the most part whenyou're working with an athlete, they're
focused on a single race orlike I want to qualify for something
in the future and I'm, Igenerally take it back to, well,
let's think about the healthyway to go about this and improve

(10:59):
and when you know it might bea new athlete, they want to do an
ironman next year.
Okay, that's a great goal.
Let's like plan that out andbuild up to it.
But yeah, it really depends onthe athlete and some athletes are
in it for the long haul andthey like love, you know, the lifestyle
and the three sports reallygoes well with overall body strength

(11:25):
and being healthy later inyour life.
So I think they kind of gohand in hand.
But yeah, for me it reallydepends on the athlete and the goal
and where I come from.
And the way I coach is alwayslooking at the 365 degree view, like,
of all aspects of their life.
And you know, yes, there's agoal here, but I want to get them

(11:48):
to that point feeling strong,feeling healthy, and all of the,
you know, the ways we get themthere lead into longevity in the
sport, whether they, you know,want to do an ironman once and then
move into something, something else.
I think for us at Salty Bears,it's really about enhancing their
life through athletics and inthis case, triathlon.

(12:10):
And yeah, health is front andcenter, the most important part of
that.
Yep, yep.
And, and we'll talk about thatquite a bit today in terms of how
to do this sport for a long time.
So the, the, the two of youhave brought to us your personal
six tips for how to just havelongevity in this sport, the multisport
lifestyle.
So let's go through them andjust, just soak up the lessons, learn

(12:32):
from you.
I'll learn how to do thisbetter for longer.
What is Tim and Rennie'slongevity tip?
Number one?
Yeah, number one for us isalways be able to reevaluate your
goals and redefine your why.
And that is something thatreally played a big role for us in

(12:52):
our careers, especially as ourfamily grew and life changed.
You want to be focused on thefuture, not just what you've done
in the past or goals you'vehad in the past.
And it really, that all startswith being able to be honest with
yourself, have an open andhonest conversation.

(13:13):
Where am I at in life?
What do I really want to getout of this?
And you know, am I doing thisfor the right reasons?
Has.
Have my reasons changed?
You know, one of the things weactually talked about with our campers
at camp is 2018 was our firstseason racing with, with a child.
You know, so, yeah, you know,Rennie had already done everything

(13:33):
in the sport.
I mean, she'd won everything, right.
And now she's a mom.
And you know, we've been in along time.
We've been in that Kona grindevery year for, geez, almost a decade.
It was focused on October andit starts to wear any mentally and
we just said, you know what,let's forget it.
Let's just like, just have agood time.
Let's travel the world andlike, like, let's, you know, we started

(13:56):
the YouTube channel, a Tim andRennie show and like, let's just
document this adventure of afamily that does Iron man going around
the world.
Yeah.
And really revitalized our careers.
But it, it, you know, we hadto sit down and, and have a conscious
shift and, and you have to bestrong enough and willing to step
away from what might havedefined you in the past.

(14:18):
Because we're always definedby our results.
But when you can kind of shiftthe narrative, you can make big changes.
Yeah, I, I absolutely lovethis, and it very much mirrors my
journey.
Obviously, I'm not a, I'm notan ironman champion, like, like the
both of you.
So it's a little bit different.
But, but from the middle ofthe field, right?
Like when I first got in thetriathlon in 2014, you know, my.

(14:41):
I just wanted to be fit, right?
And I wanted some variety inmy fitness journey.
I was running a ton and, oh,hey, if I do triathlon, I can kind
of vary it up more.
And then it went from that tolike, oh, how well can I do in these
races that I'm starting to dolocally around Dallas Fort Worth?
And then it became, well, nowI want to do a half ironman and an
ironman.
And then it went to, how wellcan I do at a half ironman and an

(15:02):
ironman?
And very much like the two ofyou once my daughter was born.
She's almost two and a halfyears old now.
Now it's just like, oh, I needto keep my body moving and stay healthy
while most of my time goes tobeing dad, right?
So I want to show up at theraces and have a good time.
And, you know, maybe in fiveto ten years it becomes, how well
can I do at the races again?
But, yeah, I, I would notstill be in the sport if it wasn't

(15:25):
doing exactly what you'retalking about, sitting down and saying,
what.
What is, what is all this forin this season of my life?
So I love that you startedwith this and led with this.
It's so easy to get in thesport on day one and, and try to
be the athlete 10 years laterthat you were.
Or not even just the athlete,the person you were 10 years later
that you were when you started.

(15:46):
You know, you gotta evolve, right?
You gotta evolve.
And that's what this tip isall about, for sure.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I look backto being young, right, Andrew, and
you're starting to race pro,and all you wanna do is win a race.
You wanna validate you being a professional.
You want to validate notgetting a real job.
And in having a paycheck, youwant to validate your.
Your career, right?

(16:07):
And then you do that and like,oh, I just want to make money and
I want to get Sponsors, andyou start doing that and it's like,
well, that, you know, thatdoesn't always drive you, right?
All of a sudden, you know, youcan buy a house or, you know, you,
you know, life changes and you're.
You're sitting pretty like,okay, well, now what's going to drive
me?
Right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, Very, very interesting.
And it's also interestinghearing you point out just that,

(16:30):
you know, I think we, asamateurs, you know, we, we watch
the pro field, right, and, andevery single year, just, just the
mini soap opera of who are thecontenders, who's going to win this,
who's going to win that.
You know, Who's.
Who's Racing T100 vs.
Who's Racing Iron Man Pro Tour vs.
Who's Racing Super Tri.
Like, you know, we, we followit all.
And just hearing you express,like, it's awesome.

(16:51):
It's our career, it.
But it can be a grind in, in acertain way.
And, and to hear that evenwhile still in the pro field, you
were trying to unplug fromthat a little bit and vary what your
experience was asprofessionals in the back third of
your career is very, veryinteresting to hear for sure.
What is longevity tip from Timand Rennie, number two?

(17:15):
Yeah, longevity tip number twofor us is respect the recovery sessions
and, and to periodize your training.
So, you know, if you're ontrident, your training's periodized
beautifully.
What we learned, or what Ilearned very early on in my career,
was that I needed to segmentit into sort of preseason main season

(17:36):
and championship season.
And I would take breaksthroughout the year, and this was
not something that wasregularly done.
People basically trained year round.
They took maybe a few days offafter a big championship and got
straight back into it and kindof still happens.
But for me, I knew that Iwanted to be in the sport for the
long term.

(17:56):
I didn't want to win Kona once.
I wanted to win Kona multiple times.
I wanted to race it 10 times,and I wanted to.
And I knew that the burnoutrate could be fairly high if you
didn't, you know, respect therecovery, take some downtime.
And so with my coach Siri, wesort of came up with a plan, and
Kona was always our big goalfor the year.
So whatever your big goal is,kind of work back from that.

(18:18):
Okay.
And that big goals.
October, basically November,December is very light or, you know,
few weeks off after Konapreseason starts in sort of January,
sort of December, really.
January.
And you're kind of grindingthrough to, you know, Spring races
in March, you race a, youknow, a few races and then take like

(18:40):
a, you know, a little bit of adown period.
And then we also had like amid year down period where I'd take
a week off where I wouldn'tswim, bike or run, where Tim and
I would go on a holiday.
We would pick a cool hotel andwe'd sit by the pool and eat french
fries and drinkers or whatever.
And, and for us that was kindof a reward for the, the grind that

(19:02):
we were in in the preseason.
And also like a taking abreath before it really got real
with the championship seasonapproaching and that, you know, big
training block coming up.
So not only the weekly builtin recovery sessions, and for us,
they were more like every weekand a half, two weeks, we'd actually

(19:24):
have a day off.
Taking those days off, doingthe easy session, spinning your legs
very easily, sitting on thecouch like those things.
But having dedicated, I amgoing to take this time off and just
do nothing to do with sports.
And so I think when you'retrying to be excited about races,

(19:47):
like, I always found that I'dtake three or four days off and I
would be, we'd be strict about it.
We would not swim, bike, or run.
Like, we didn't bring our swimsuits.
If we're swimming, it was in abikini up to the poolside bar.
You know, like, even for Tim Best.
Yeah, even for Tim.
Yeah.
Looks good.
Yeah.
And you know, inevitably twoor three days in, we'd be like, I

(20:08):
kind of want to go run again.
I kind of, I want to get backinto the routine.
I want to get back into the grind.
I want to eat healthy again.
And so for us, that was enoughto keep us motivated and excited.
And I think, you know, everyathlete can take a little bit of
advice from that and just be,Treat yourself from time to time.

(20:29):
Treat yourself.
That should be the entitlement.
That's, that's tip number two.
Treat yourself.
Treat yourself.
Did you guys just, just thisis a total aside and we'll see if,
if our editor cuts this orkeeps this, but did you guys ever
watch Parks and Rec, the, theAmerican television show?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I was assuming that's wherethe treat yourself concept came from
there.
But yeah, in this context,totally on board.

(20:51):
All of our Parks and Rec fanswill, I'm sure their heads were already
there.
Right.
They didn't need my, my reminder.
But no, I, I, I love this.
Rennie and I, you know, weactually did a podcast episode a
few months back with A few.
The concept of do you need an offseason?
Because the, the, the dat trwhen ath's training on trot, it will

(21:14):
not just give you a week off,a month off, a couple weeks off here
and there.
Because it's really, it's apersonal thing.
Right.
The data shows us your body,like the, the way the, the training
is.
The training stress is spreadout throughout the week allocated,
you know, seasonally.
Your body doesn't have to havethat break.
Sometimes it's mental,sometimes physically.

(21:36):
Yes, physically, but so, yeah,that's what.
I think the mental side of it,like physically.
Exactly.
Like, yeah, you can keepgrinding and you can probably keep
showing up and, and keepprogressing year and year out, but
the mental thing is so huge,so important.
I think that that's the bigpiece that we're kind of talking
about, like being excited torace, being excited to like beat
yourself up in an ironmanevery October for 10 years, which

(21:59):
we were.
Takes like planning anddowntime and time to regroup and
having a really strong.
Why, like, I think, yeah, bothof us had.
And it's, you know, there area few athletes that had very long
careers that genuinely lovedsport, but there are a lot that burnt

(22:20):
out.
Yeah, just again, like as aprofessional, little different.
We could chase races year round.
Like we would go down toAustralia, we could race in December,
we could race in January,like, and I, I've seen race athletes
do that and they do itfantastic for a couple of years and
then they're done.
And so resisting thattemptation, taking the downtime,

(22:40):
being disciplined aboutactually resting really paid us off
for us in the long run.
And I think it's definitelysomething anyone can sort of emulate
in a, an age grouper andfiguring out where their big races
are and then working back from there.
I think that's a big benefitwe bring to our athletes that we

(23:01):
coach on Tridot as well isthat we bring in that kind of human
aspect that like, you know,managing the mental side of the sport
and, you know, helping themmold it all together with great training.
Yeah, it's very hard to openup the app and see here's the training
sessions I have this week.
And maybe you need to unplugfor a variety of reasons.

(23:22):
Right.
You know, most type Atriathletes, it's very hard to make
yourself do that.
And that's where a giftedcoach, right, can really come in
handy or, or just, just agreat, a great life partner or family
member or training buddy whocan remind you to kind of Take that
mental break.
Unplug.
Yeah, we just delete those sessions.
Delete, delete.
You do not have a session today.

(23:44):
Yeah, yeah, you don't have the option.
I did that for an ATH a coupleweeks ago.
He did, he did a, he had areally great emotional race.
And then I'm like, hey, you'retaking a mini break.
Four or five day mini break.
And he was so happy, you know,and he's like, actually this is great.
You know, I'm going campingwith my wife and you know, and like,
yeah, I might go, I might gofor, you know.
You might, you, you stillmight go.

(24:06):
Like you might go for a run or whatever.
But there's not that mentalstrain of just have having to follow
a program, right?
Like saying, hey, you knowwhat I mean?
Feel like going for a 20minute jog.
I'm just gonna go do that.
In this, in this little periodof time, I have autonomy and I don't
feel, I don't have thatpressure of having to subscribe to
the, to the training plan.

(24:27):
And I think that's the beautyof having a coach to have like letting
them, putting thatresponsibility on, letting them.
Be the bad guy that says, hey,no training this week.
And then you don't, and thenyou don't have guilt.
You're like, I don't, I'm notallowed to train today actually.
Like, it's not an option.
I just do.
My coach told me to do.
Yeah, that's.
Yeah, exactly.
My coach told me to.
Yeah.
The, the other thing Randy,that I wanted to call attention to

(24:48):
that you said is you, youmentioned, you know, cause you, you,
you talked quite a bit abouttaking a break, unplugging, you know,
but, but also keeping thoserecovery systems in place throughout
your training cycle.
And importantly, when tri doesgive you an easy run or an easy bike,
letting those sessions be easythere is all the time where on a,

(25:09):
on a Tuesday I might have a 20minute zone two run and it's like
I'm feeling pretty good today.
I could probably run harderthan this or I could probably stay
in zone two longer than this,but gosh darn it, like try that is
keeping my, my tomorrow and mynext week and my next month in focus
when it's giving me just thatzone two stuff today.
So I love that you mentionedthat one of the call a little extra

(25:31):
attention to that point beforewe moved on.
So yeah, great, great.
Longevity tip number two fromTim and Rennie.
Moving on to longevity tipnumber three.
Coach Tim, what do we got forthis one?
Yeah.
Number three, strength trainfor life.
Strength training is more thanjust performance.
It's about keeping yourquality of life high as you get older.

(25:54):
And I mean we're experiencingthat now, you know, almost 45 and
Ren's not too far behind me.
But we, you know, we startedworking with our strength coach Aaron
CARSON and geez, 12 years ago,13 years ago.
And it is, it is pivotal forperformance just because you are
really, you're bringing a newlayer of training, you know, into

(26:17):
your routine, but you'resetting yourself up for success in
terms of injury avoidance.
If you're a middle aged manlike myself, it's a natural testosterone
booster, right, to be liftingheavy weights.
So there's all these otherbenefits that you can bring in from
strength training that cankeep you in the sport longer, you

(26:38):
know, you know, hormonalresponses, staying injury free, those,
these are all huge things tohelp you perform over a long time,
but also just to, to behealthy and to be able to move when
we get older.
You know, like I see some, youknow, generations before us, you
know, either runners ortriathletes, you know, Olympic medalists

(27:00):
that you, you see them movingaround now and they obviously focused
on one movement their wholelife, right, like running in this
plane and they, they weren't,you know, getting lateral movement,
things like that.
So, and you can, you can tellit in how they move now.
So we want to, we want to be,you know, we're old parents so we're
going to be old, oldergrandparents and we want to be active

(27:21):
and being able to, to movewith our grandkids someday.
So we keep that in mind.
Yeah, you know, a great thingto keep in mind.
I, I, I played tennis a lotgrowing up in high school, college
and have, have unplugged fromthat for the last 15 years or so.
And I recently started playingtennis again with, with some guys
that I met locally, guys andgals and, and most of them, much

(27:45):
like triathlon, you know, the,the, the, the tennis people attracted
to that sport are usually notlike, you know, trendy 20 somethings,
right?
It's, it's a, it's a, I guessI'm more of a middle aged upper sport.
So anyway, all the guys I'mplaying doubles with throughout the
week are in their, in theirhigh 40s, 50s and 60s and, and they're,

(28:05):
they're talking shop aboutlike, you know, when my last knee
surgery was and I have thissurgery coming up and oh yeah, I
had that two years ago.
It'll take you Six weeks to recover.
And, and I'm like looking atlike man, these, these guys and gals
are, are in a different head space.
Like I'm seeing the futuresomewhat of like to stay active at
that age.
What are they having to do?
And, and it's a great reminderto like, like right now as, as a

(28:29):
37 year old, it is very easyfor me to get in the middle of my
week, do my swimming, bikingand running and not touch a weight.
I, I, I have, my, my wife andI, we have in our pain cave all the
weights, all the dumbbells and stuff.
We need to get a good workoutupstairs in our pain caveat.
It is so easy to just go aweek or two or three and never make
it up there to that room to doa strength session.

(28:50):
And it's like I'm looking atthese guys I play tennis with and
I'm looking at their creaksand groans and moans and surgeries
coming up and I'm like, okay,maybe I should take that more seriously
now.
So I need less of that when I,when I get there.
So, so Tim, thank you forthat, that reminder.
It's good for you both now asan athlete.
It's good for you in the future.
All of our Tridot staffmembers and coaches who race very

(29:14):
successfully at a moreadvanced age, they take this so seriously.
And I've noted that peoplethat come on the, on the podcast,
like coach Kurt Madden, coachJoanna Nami, you know yourselves.
This is a refrain I hear frompeople a step ahead of life.
I mean, I don't think we're asold as Kurt though.
No, no, no, no.

(29:35):
Yeah.
No, not the, not as old as thelegendary not yet moving like we.
We want to be moving like himwhen we're his age.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And to your point, to yourpoint, Andrew, it doesn't have to
be an hour session, right?
Like you should.
You could knock out 20 minutesession two to three times a week
and it's, it's going to be noticeable.
Yep, yep.
Love that.
For longevity in the sport,do, do your strength training.

(29:57):
Don't just let those swimming,biking and running be all that you
do.
Moving on to Tim and Rennie,longevity tip number four.
Coach Rennie, what do we have here?
Yeah, so tip number four,listen, adapt and repeat.
So like over the years youwill find that some sessions may

(30:19):
wear you down and as you get alittle older, they may weigh you
down a little more than theyused to.
So listening to your body inthose instances and maybe adjusting
a little Bit a session likethat, that may have been good five
years ago is not good for today.
And that's just listening toyour body over time.

(30:39):
Like, what does my body want?
What does my body respond wellto at this phase of my life?
And I think it's always goodto go back to the glory days.
And I used to do, you know, 10by a mile at this pace and this was
great.
It was a fantastic stimulus.
Okay, maybe that sort ofsession is not the type of session

(31:01):
that you should be doing anymore.
So just continuing to listento your body and if there's a session
or a combination of sessionsor weeks of training that tend to
elicit, you know, a niggle orjust sickness as well.
Like if I train like superhard for three weeks and don't have,

(31:22):
you know, a rest day, or Idon't have a rest day every four
days, or maybe I can only runfour days a week instead of six days
a week like I used to.
Staying ahead of the injury, Iguess is the biggest thing.
So, yeah, listening to yourbody and adapting.
Yeah, yeah, I, I love this, Rennie.

(31:42):
And, and there's so manyreasons that we need to adapt.
Right.
And this is where, you know,tried out already in your training
sessions themselves is goingto look at your age, it's going to
look at how long you've beenin these sports and, and it, it,
it knows how much stress yourbody can handle.
So, so somewhat in your, notsomewhat very much in your training
sessions already, these kindof things are accommodated for I,

(32:05):
I think of a workout like mathshuttles for example.
My, my father, who's in hisupper 60s, when he gets MAV shuttles,
he will have one set of MAPshuttles, he has one set where three
or four times he's picking upthe pace for a 20 second sprint.
When I have MAV shuttles, Ihave three sets by seven sprints.
So I have 21 sprints, he mighthave four or five.

(32:27):
And he, we were at the tabletalking about that the last time
he visited Dallas and he waslike, you have 20, you have 21 of
them.
When you have map shuttles.
Yeah, every single time I have21 sprints, I have like four.
Yeah, that's what your bodycan handle when it comes to that
particular type of stress.
So, so this is alreadyhappening in terms of try not managing

(32:48):
the load for you at your age,your body type, your experience in
the sports.
But, but even on top of that,Rennie, I love you pointing out just
knowing your body, knowing howit's feeling knowing your.
Your nicks and niggles.
One, one just very random,isolated example is for me, when
the Texas summertime hits, Idon't know why this is the case.

(33:09):
It's been this way for, like,the last seven years.
All of a sudden, my Achilleson both sides get really tight when
I run.
I don't notice it allthroughout the day, but when I go
for a run, it's like, man, whyare my Achilles so tight?
I have not figured it out.
I've talked to pts, I'vetalked to.
I've, I've.
I've troubleshot.
Is it my shoes?
Is it this?
Is it.
That have not isolated acause, but okay, I need to do some

(33:32):
things a little bit differentin my running sessions during the
summer.
As soon as the temperaturescool down a little bit, it goes away.
It's very wild.
But during the Texassummertime, when I go for a run,
I'm making sure I'm takingsome extra time doing my.
My warmup exercises.
I'm making sure I do a littlemore zone 2 before I start doing
the intervals.
I don't jump straight into the intervals.

(33:52):
After just a minute or two ofzone two, I want to make sure that
those Achilles and, And, youknow, the whole chain of movement
is warmed up properly.
And so that's, that's just oneexample of a very weird way I have
to listen to my bodythroughout the triathlon season.
Right.
And obviously, as you'reworking with different athletes,
I imagine as coaches, there'sa lot of different reasons.
Both physical, both seasonal.

(34:14):
When you're talking with yourathletes about.
About how to adapt, when toadapt and when to listen to your
body, did you guys in your procareer ever have a time where you
kind of ignored something yourbody was trying to tell you and you
paid for it?
Any.
Anything like that, or wereyou pretty dutiful in your pro careers?
I feel like we were pretty.
I was pretty lucky.

(34:34):
I think I.
I could pretty much just train.
Good for you.
Yeah.
But I think the strengthtraining for us was a big component
of that.
Like, we had, you know, AaronCarson 13 years ago when.
How old were we then?
Early 30s.
We would do strength twice aweek, every single week.
And so when we were sort ofgetting into that age where maybe

(34:57):
niggles would pop up, I thinkhaving access to a great strength
coach and being consistentwith that strength training enabled
us to continue to train.
And again, yeah, I neverreally had many niggles, but if I
did, I told my coach, like,you know, being honest with yourself,

(35:18):
Right.
And, like, I know, you know,sometimes athletes have a tendency.
Well, my coach told me to do this.
I'm going to do this no matter what.
It's probably not the smartestthing, but I'm doing it anyway.
And, yeah, we will.
Not like that.
I'm like, that doesn't makeany sense.
Like, this hurts a little bit.
I'm going to take a day off running.
Like, for me, it was like, I'mjust not going to run for one day
and then it's fine.

(35:39):
So, yeah.
Yeah.
I think if a lot of people getcaught chasing, you know, they're,
you know, stressed or feellike they're.
They're trying to chase a goalor a dream, and if you just keep.
Keep a calm, cool head on yourshoulders and you realize that, you
know, getting in front of it,taking, you know, not doing the run
or whatever it might be is theright approach, you know, it's.

(36:04):
It's going to set you a better.
Set you up better in the long run.
And I think for me, one of onething that stuck with me, Hamish
Carter won gold in, like,Athens in 2004.
And he basically put this downto it wasn't the sessions that I
did that got me to gold medal,it was the sessions that I missed.

(36:26):
Wow.
It was.
It was being disciplinedenough and honest with myself and
take.
Like, every.
Anyone can push through, right?
Like, everyone's tough.
Like, you can push through,you can do the session, but it.
It's recognizing that I reallywant to do this session, and it's
gonna weigh on me mentally ifI don't do this session, but I know
it's the right thing for meright now.

(36:48):
So being disciplined and notdoing the session was the reason
he won the gold medal.
So that stuck with methroughout my career.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I hope our audience hears,because I know they've heard our
coaches say it in several wayson the podcast over our 300ish episodes
now, but just that yourconsistency in training over time

(37:10):
matters way more than perfection.
Right.
Every single day.
And, and so.
And so we say if you need tomiss a session, if you need to augment
a session, if you life comesup and you got to rearrange some
stuff like, that's okay overtime, just as long as you are consistent.
And so they're hearing it fromthe two of you that, okay, Rennie
was able to win some Worldchampionship titles.
Right.
Missing some sessions alongthe way.

(37:31):
Right?
This.
This guy was able to win agold medal, missing some sessions
along the way.
So It's.
If it's okay for you guys,it's probably okay for me who's training,
you know, training for Ironmansuch and such and hoping to come
in under 12 hours.
It's probably okay for me tomiss a session here and there for
probable cause.
Listening to the body, adapting.
So love getting thatreinforcement from two people that

(37:54):
have had the career that, thatyou had.
And I hope our listenersreally take it to heart when you're
now being on the coaching sideof things.
When you're coaching us peskyage groupers, do you find it hard
to talk your pesky agegroupers out of missing a session?
No.
I feel like you just deletedoff and they can't do it anyway.
I just always just ask forhonesty and yeah, like, give.

(38:19):
Tell me how you're feeling.
For the most part, I feel likea lot of the athletes that I coach
are, are smart enough to takeoff the session if they need to take
off a session.
Or write me and say, hey, I'vegot a niggle.
My calf is feeling a littlesore and then I can adjust and work
around it.
No, like, I think for the mostpart the athletes at least I've worked
with, yeah, fairly receptiveto and you.

(38:40):
Know, you, if you have anathlete like, you know, my tendon
to miss some stuff, you just,you really have to emphasize the
key sessions of that week andbe like, hey, like, I don't care
what you getting thesesessions done this week.
Yeah.
Yep.
I love it.
All right, we've got twolongevity tips left with Tim and
Rainey.
Coach Tim, what is tip number five?

(39:03):
Tip number five.
Keep the joy front and center.
Oh, I love that.
Burnout is going to take morepeople out of this sport than injury
does.
I mean, it's just, it, it,it's mental fatigue of trying to
be on top of it all the time.
It's okay to step away fromthe numbers on the right days.
Like you said, Andrew on hisown today.

(39:24):
Go ride your gravel bike.
Go ride your mountain bike ifyou have an easy ride.
Right.
Be able to be okay with nothaving to always look at your Garmin.
Right.
You know, I remember Randywould go out for runs where she,
you know, would eitherwouldn't look at her watch or wouldn't
bring a watch.
And I tell that to athletesnow too, that are just that feel
like the pressure of alwaysbeing, being on the program and always
having to perform, alwayshaving to hit numbers.

(39:46):
No, there's just joy of, thejoy of going out and running and
looking around.
The blue sky, the trees, thefresh air.
Right.
Love it.
Soak all of that up and likelet that give you energy to keep
moving forward in the sport.
Go train with friends or doyou know, I have a lot of my swimmers
or a lot of my athletes swimwith masters groups if they can.
Because I know the joy ofsharing a swim experience versus

(40:10):
swimming on my own is so powerful.
Right.
So finding all these thingsand it all comes down to we just
have to protect the passion.
Protect your passion of thesport and do that by finding the
joy in it.
Yep.
That's so good.
And we get questions all thetime when it comes to try not training,
you know.
Oh, like I've, I, I do amaster's group on Mondays and Fridays

(40:32):
and you know, my master'sgroup has this workout for the day
and I've got my tried outworkout for the day.
What do I do?
Like okay, well we'll do, youknow, do the master's group.
Like it's, you know, it'sprobably, you know, similar, you
know, training response andyou know, oh, I've got my trouts
telling me to do an hour 25 onthe bike with these intervals.
But I was gonna do a group ride.
Okay, well like if you have anA race coming up in the next four

(40:53):
months, maybe do the trot out session.
Other than that, go enjoy thegroup ride.
And you know, that's, that'swhat it was noticeable for me like
when I first got on try itout, you know, I did a group right.
Every single Saturday, right.
With some local athletes andyou start doing the try not training
and all of a sudden it doesn'tquite work.
And yeah, it's finding what isthe right balance for you.

(41:14):
Right.
Because it's got to be fun.
You got to keep it fun.
It's fun doing this with other people.
And so, so Tim, I love youreminding us to do that.
I myself, my rhythm has alwaysbeen when I have a big A race coming
up, I try to nail the trainingverbatim as much as I can day in
and day out.
And if I don't have an A raceon the calendar, if I got some local
stuff or some B races, Craces, I'm going to give myself some
more grace to make it fun and.

(41:37):
Absolutely.
And go ahead.
Tim.
Oh, sir.
Yeah, I was going to say Andrew.
And when you time it like youdo when you, when you know, like,
hey, I'm going to have, thisis going to be my push phase before
my A race when you know that'sthat's go time.
And you give yourself somegrace earlier in the year or in late
season, you're puttingyourself in the position to actually
really execute that bigtraining block.

(41:58):
Right.
Because your mind's fresher,you're happier and, and you know,
like, hey, it's only, it'sthis long that I have to.
Absolutely.
There's an end right now.
Yeah, that's a really, reallygreat point.
Yeah, you can always, youknow, you can always go up or down
a lane.
Right.
Like if your tried out sessionis, you know, aiming for maybe some
thresholds in zone four, youknow, maybe you pop up a lane if

(42:20):
it's not a threshold set at Masters.
Right.
But now you're on a fasterinterval and you're trying to hang
on in the back of lane and allof a sudden you just combine the
best of both worlds.
Right?
Yeah.
Tim, you'll appreciate this one.
One of my favorite things I'veever heard a tried out athlete say.
This is shout out to athleteDavid Pagan.
He is in the United StatesNavy and he.

(42:45):
Yep, yep, I see, so you'realready tracking with this.
But he relates it to themilitary principle of commander's
intent.
Right.
And he, and he's like, I, wehave so many athletes that stress
out about getting that 100train X score on it on as many sessions
as they can.
And there's a time and a placefor that, but there's also a time
and place for, okay, I mightwalk away with an 82 train X score

(43:07):
or a 77 train X score, but ifI come away from the session knowing
that I, I fulfilled thecommander's intent of the session,
I didn't do verbatim what mycommander told me to, but I still
got the training response thattried out one of me to get.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, that's, that's kind ofthe way he views it.
And, and I'm one of thoseathletes, I don't freak out if I

(43:29):
get an 80 train X instead of100 train X.
If I went out and heldapproximately the intensity I was
supposed to hold for the, forthe amount of times I was supposed
to, I call it a win.
And that's what David wasgetting at, was like, okay, you know,
don't stress about nailing the session.
Just, you know, try to do whattry that is hoping you're going to

(43:50):
do.
And if you fulfill thatintent, not every training session
has to be verbatim what tryout told you to do.
So I love David's perspectiveon that.
And Tim, I know you'dappreciate that one as well.
I love it, too.
All right, we've come to the moment.
Longevity tip number six,drumroll from Tim and Rennie.

(44:11):
I'm assuming.
I'm assuming you saved a goodone for last.
What is your sixth tip forstaying in this sport for a long
time?
I think number six is get theteam around you so the team is like
your A team.
Make sure you surroundyourself with whether that's a great
coach.
Training partners are a godsend.

(44:32):
If you have a great training partner.
That'S so true that that will keep.
You turning up day in, dayout, year in, year out, just to,
like, share the suffering.
Right.
And the build and the experience.
I've found throughout mycareer that, you know, the process
could be lonely, but when youhave a great team around you, it's

(44:56):
just the whole experience is enhanced.
And when I think back tocrossing the finish line, it wasn't
like myself, really.
I was thinking about.
It was everyone that Isuffered with along the way.
You know, coming down thefinish shoot, I'm thinking about
my coach, I'm thinking aboutmy mom.
I'm thinking about my trainingpartners later on.
I'm thinking about this guy and.

(45:16):
And our kids.
But, yeah, having a great teamaround you to keep you motivated
and engaged, I think that thatis worth weight in gold.
Like, and I'm finding now,post career, I have a really great
couple of girls I like runningwith, and I wouldn't do the hard

(45:36):
sessions if they weren't there.
Like, I do have.
You know, we do a hard sessiononce a week, we do a long run once
a week, and then it'sbasically a social session, but you're
out getting fitness and.
And I look forward to those sessions.
And, yeah, so I thinkaccountability, too.
Absolutely.
Accountability.
But just, yeah, sharing theexperience with someone else just
amplifies that experience.

(45:58):
Yeah, this is a great tip.
And I.
When I first got in thetriathlon in 2014, I think my first
maybe two years of just doinglocal sprints and Olympics around
Dallas Fort Worth, I.
I didn't really go out of myway to make any triathlon friends.
I didn't try to plug in with,like, a tri club.
I just wanted to go do the race.
You know, my, My, my.
You know, my wife, my familywould come support me and cheer for

(46:20):
me, but it was largely justlike my.
And this goes back to tipnumber one, right?
About how your.
Why evolves.
You know, I.
I just wanted a.
A fun way to stay in shape,and so I, I wasn't really looking
to spend extra time and effortto plug in with a group.
And then in year number three,I joined a local triathlon team that
I'd seen at a lot of the racesand started meeting people, going

(46:40):
on group rides and oh my gosh,like, enriched my triathlon experience
so much.
And then years later, I'm apart of the tried out crew.
Right on try that staff andteam tried out tried out ambassador
at the races, meeting othertried outers.
And it's like the deeper youplug in and the more people you meet
and the more you open yourselfup to that, it brings this whole

(47:04):
experience to life in a waythat you don't get on your own.
So I love you bringing this up.
I love you saving it for last.
I love the two of you bringingthis topic up.
I want to be very clear, Ididn't say this at the beginning.
We did an episode early in theyear 2025 at the time we're recording
this where Mark Allen came onthe show and gave us his six tips

(47:25):
for just his six rules for dayto day nutrition.
It was a topic he waspassionate about.
He and I were, were at adinner together and just started
talking about, oh yeah, youshould go on the podcast and talk
about how passionate you areabout just day to day healthy nutrition.
And we turned into a podcast.
It did very well.
People were, you know, it wasa very well received episode.

(47:46):
And so I started throwing outto some of our other coaches like,
hey, like let's, let's do this more.
Like what, what is somethingyou are passionate about?
Bring it to our audience andlet's, let's talk about it.
And we just had McKeely Jonescome on and give us her six recovery
rules because she's verypassionate about making sure you
do your recovery sessionsthroughout the week.
And so when I threw this outto the two of you, this was the topic

(48:06):
you came back with rightstraight away.
We want to talk about this.
And I love that you chose thisbecause I think to all the times
we're at like USA Triathlonsconferences and they're sharing the
stats about, you know, justthe, it's in our sport somewhat.
You know, there's people thatget in the sport for life, but there's
also a pretty decent turnoverrate right there.

(48:28):
There's a pretty large amountof triathlete, I forget the percentage
now, but it's, it's a, it's afairly high percentage of triathletes
get in the sport.
Do it for Three to five yearsand then bounce to a new hobby and
that can be okay.
But I think so many of thosepeople that, that churn through and
move on could have stayedlonger, maybe probably would have

(48:48):
even wanted to have stayedlonger if they had just kind of established,
laid the groundwork forthemselves to enjoy the sport longer.
Does that make sense?
So, so I just publicly thankyou so much for bringing, bringing
this topic and I'm, I'm gladyou, you brought it to our attention
and, and all six of these guys.
Build these into your routine,build these into your mentality both

(49:10):
for training and racing monthin and month out and you will be
a happier triathlete for alonger period of time.
What I want to know Tim andRennie, to close out our main set
here.
We've talked about being inthe sport for a long time.
You both had nice, long,healthy, successful professional
careers.
You're now coaching triathletes.

(49:30):
What's your plan for the restof your triathlon journey?
Are you both planning tocontinue racing here and there?
Are you just Coach Tim andCoach Rainey now?
Yeah, I'll go first.
So triathlon for me is off thetable for the time being with the
three littles just it's alittle too time consuming, particularly

(49:51):
the biking but kind of leaninginto more running events.
I certainly am my best selfwhen I'm physically active or sort
of chasing some goal whetherwhatever level that be at.
Um, so I have some trail raceson the calendar and yeah that for
me and strength training as well.
So yeah doing pretty muchsomething six days a week is sort

(50:13):
of where I'm at and trainingfor some, some fun races.
Yep.
So still very much pluggedinto to the fitness world and the
endurance sports world.
I, I, I Rennie am, am havebeen on a triathlon racing hiatus
for the same reason we, we,you know we have our two year old.
I want to be dad and so I'm running.
I'm not worrying about thebiking and the swimming as much.

(50:34):
Right.
And I actually did just signup for a 70.3.
My first triathlon since Elliewas born.
That's 50 minutes into this recording.
I'm dropping a news break Iguess but maybe next week on the
show I'll announce which oneit is because I have not publicly
said that yet.

(50:55):
But, but yeah very muchtracking with you Rennie of just
in this season.
Yes, I want to be a triathlete.
I want to do more triathlons.
It's just not in the cardsright now.
Right.
To train for all three sports.
But it will be again soon.
Tim, same question over to you.
Yeah, I mean I, I still loveswimming, biking and running so you

(51:17):
know, I try to, you know, stayactive and everything.
I am going to do an exteriorthis, this August.
Yeah, awesome.
So that's for me, that's a funway to do it.
I mean, Randy and I were joking.
I mean I broke two bikes last year.
I broke a wheel the other day.
Like she's like, you're justnot meant to ride a mountain bike,
buddy.
But it is, it's like a fun wayfor me to not compare myself and

(51:41):
not take, take anything tooseriously but still have that goal
to train for and you know,keep me as part of the community.
And we're doing the GrandTraverse together, which is 40 mile
trail race from Aspen or sorryfrom Crested Butte to Aspen and then
Aspen and Crested Butte.
So day one, Rennie will runAspen to Crest or sorry, Crested,

(52:01):
but Aspen and then day two,I'll ride back.
No, that's super cool.
I, I, it's funny Tim, youmentioned with the mountain biking
it, it's kind of a way to becompetitive, have fun, get those
juices flowing without havingthe direct comparison to who you
were as an athlete in your prime.
You know, who the current prowhat, you know, the times they're
laying down.

(52:21):
I've noticed just againanecdotally on social media I see
guys like Sebastian Kienle,Luke and Beth McKenzie are, they're
all doing CrossFit and Hyrox competitions.
I've seen, you know, GwenJorgensen famously switched back
to running and now back to triathlon.
But there's a number of, ofpro triathletes that, that when they

(52:42):
move on from triathlon, not always.
You know, there's someone likeMcKeely Jones who is still actively
racing in the age group fieldas a triathlete.
But many of them seem to moveinto some form of co competing.
But that's different than triathlon.
Do, do you guys keep tabs onwhat everybody else is doing or do
you think Tim, it's because ofkind of that notion you just expressed?

(53:05):
Yeah, I mean I think we werealways paying attention, see what's
going on and you know you'realways also looking for other fun
stuff.
Right.
Like so you see Luke and Bethdoing Hyrax, like oh, maybe I'll
give that a try at some point,things like that.
Which is kind of cool.
But I mean honestly living inColorado, like there's so many, you
have so.
Much cool stuff around youthere's so.
Much, there's so many, so muchadventure type of stuff that you

(53:26):
could do, really.
Don't have to look furtherthan our state.
Yeah.
All right, well, on to thecool down portion of our show where
I will have coach Tim andCoach Rennie answer a question from
audience.
And guys, today I picked aquestion about bike cadence.

(53:47):
Eileen asked us this.
What is the importance ofcadence on the bike?
When I'm out on the road, Ifind that my cadence is always lower
than prescribed by Tridot.
And in fact, I have a naturaltendency to want to change gears
to drop my cadence as soon asit gets over 75.
So my question is, why doescadence matter and how do I improve

(54:08):
it?
You know?
So Eileen is, is throwing outsome numbers specific to her.
It seems like her bodynaturally gravitates to a lower cadence.
Anytime it starts spinning up,she wants to drop it down.
I'm kind of the opposite.
I, I like cycling at a higher cadence.
I have little chicken legs andI don't wanna push any more power
than I have to anyway.
I know as, as professionals,this is something you paid attention

(54:30):
to.
You probably had it dialed into what worked for your body, and
now you're coaching athletesand talking through these things.
So what would the both of youhave to say to Eileen about the importance
of cadence and how to get itin the best zone for her?
Yeah, I think.
I don't think there's a onesize fits all for cadence for athletes.

(54:51):
The general rule of thumb ishigher cadence, you're more relying
on your cardiovascular system.
Lower cadence, you'll.
You're sort of relying more onthat strength.
So each revolution is pushingmore power.
The more revolutions, thepower for each revolution comes down
for that same amount of watts.

(55:11):
I dialed my mine in at around 84.
You know, there are cycliststhat are well into the 90s.
Triathlon Typically, I think,is a little lower than cycling.
And a lot of the verysuccessful females over the years
have been sort of in the low80s, high 70s.

(55:35):
So it sounds like for thisparticular athlete, she likes to
feel the talk and the strengthand, and that's fine.
I think mid-70s is probably alittle low.
I would try to aim for sort ofmaybe around 80 as sort of an ideal
race cadence.
But, yeah, but if you feellike that 75 feels great for you.

(55:57):
You can push good power, youcan sustain it for a long time, and
you get off the bike and youfeel good running, then that's your,
that's your number.
Um, and that's Fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, but if you are getting onthe run and, and feeling some fatigue
on your legs, it might havebeen because of that low cadence.
Yep.
I mean at 75, you're almostlike at the gym.
Right.
Doing leg press.
Yeah.

(56:18):
But so for me, and I stressthis a lot with my athletes is cadence.
Different cadence cadences aredifferent tools.
Right.
And you need to have a, a fulltool belt.
You can't just rely on, youknow, you need a screwdriver too.
Right.
So I really, when I, we havecadence sessions on Tridont, I'm,

(56:38):
I'm stressing, hey, follow the cadence.
And usually as a lot ofathletes have a hard time when there's
a 90 cadence interval in thereto hold 90.
But you know, when you're,when you're riding on rolling terrain
or climbing, descending, youneed to be able to move your legs
differently for, you know, tomatch the terrain, being able to

(56:58):
spin up, get a higher cadencewhen you're climbing to get on top
of your gears so you can thenaccelerate overhill versus you know,
a lot of people, low cadence,they kind of almost sprint at the
bottom of the hill.
They're out of their saddle atthe bottom of the hill and then their
pace just goes down and downand down.
By the time they, they get tothe top, they're taking a rest.
Right.
Because you know, they haven'tbeen on top of that gearing.

(57:20):
So the only way to get betteris to practice.
And it's annoying.
90 to 95 is probably gonnareally feel annoying, but do the
sessions properly, practice itand, but it doesn't take.
That long, I don't think tolike, it's like almost a neuromuscular
change.
It's like it, your, your brainsignaling to your legs to spin faster.

(57:41):
So it's like an annoying,annoying sort of shift.
But you know, it will a monthor so focusing on it, you'll be able
to access those, those highercadences and it won't feel as, as
out, you know, as different asit first did.
Would you encourage an athletelike this to.
You know, obviously, Tim, youjust mentioned when tried out and

(58:03):
not every try to workout tellsyou hold this cadence, hold that
cadence.
Certain ones do.
Right.
So would you encourage anathlete like this to work some different
cadences into their routines?
Even a little more often thanwhat Trot says or something?
I, I think to the, the bikewarmup drills.
Right.
Most bike sessions it'll coughyou to do some spin ups or some high

(58:23):
cadence pedaling.
Would you have an athlete likeEileen, who's struggling with a higher
cadence.
Do more of that throughout thebike session.
Or.
Or not?
Well, it depends.
If.
Eileen, be honest.
Are you doing them?
Are you doing the warmup?
Fair question.
So if you're not doing them,doing them, do them.

(58:44):
Yeah.
And then I think you couldjust really.
You have to focus on it, right.
Like, if it's a deficiency.
So you gotta.
You gotta address it.
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