Tales of Transition, Teaching, and Triumph with Jonathan Whitaker

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Trombone Retreat podcast of the
Third Coast Trombone Retreat.
Today on the podcast, I speakto Jonathan Whitaker, former
professor of the University ofAlabama and new professor of
trombone at the University ofIllinois.
My name is Sebastian Vera andI'm joined, as always, by Nick
Schwartz.
It's a real podcast episode,Nick.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I know we've done it, or you did it, I guess.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh, listen to that jazz voice.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
It's pretty stuffy.
Pollen is my enemy.
Is that time of year Twice ayear?
This time in fall, I getdestroyed by pollen.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, I guess it's good that we're not singers.
Imagine if, like our trombones,just like seasonally, just
started acting weird.
Mine acts weird every day, sowell, maybe, yeah, maybe you
need to get it.
Get it Some.
Uh, valtrex is Valtrex forherpes.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I think it might be.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
What's the one?
See, I'm going to piss peopleoff, but I never really get
allergies.
What's the one people take?
There's.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Claritin.
There's Zyrtec.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Claritin yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Claritin makes me feel like I'm on drugs in a very
bad way.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Don't do drugs kids.
So, nick, we have some items ofnote and one special
announcement.
So, first of all, the 2024Third Coast Trombone Retreat is
happening June 4th through 10thwith a deadline of April 1st.
Hopefully I got this podcastepisode out early enough so you
can actually make your tape.
Special guest artists this yearinclude Brian Wendell, new

(01:47):
principal trombonist of theCleveland Orchestra, and Peter
Steiner and ConstanzaHochvortner, their duo.
Visit tromboneretreatcom forall the information you need to
know.
It's a special experience.
This is going to be our 11th 11on the nose.
Man, it's a special thing andwe don't we don't post a ton

(02:07):
about it.
We probably should lately.
In the news the past well, inthe news in trumbo news the past
month, we have former retreatalumni.
Well, that's, that's the,that's redundant retreat alumni.
Evan williams, new assistantprincipal of the National
Symphony.
What do you usually call him?
Did I have a name?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
for him.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, you usually call him just a different
whiskey every time.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Oh, that's right, Because Evan Williams, I call
him Jack Daniels, or I call himOld Grandad, or you know, just
random whiskeys.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
And then Alex Mullins , multiple-time trombone retreat
participant, just won the GrantPark Symphony Orchestra bass
trombone.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I mean, we're always so proud of our alumni,
alumnus, and their successes,especially when they cross that
line into becoming aprofessional musician where
they're making money for theirskill set, and that's what we're
here for.
However you do it, playing thetrombone, that's a beautiful
thing.
Living the dream.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
And our special announcement is we will be
visiting the InternationalTrombone Festival, once again
happening May 29th through June2nd, to do another live podcast.
We've had guests in the past ofour live podcasts.
Let's see if I can remember.
The first one was Joe Alessi,the next one was Christian
Lindbergh, then last summer wasAlan Kaplan and Bill Reichenbach

(03:30):
.
Right this coming summer inFort Worth, texas, we'll be
interviewing Mr Wycliffe Gordon.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew.
I wish I had my app for it.
My phone's charging in theother room.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Pause for applause.
Uh, so that we'll.
We're currently scheduled forthat Friday I think that's June
1st, um at 1230.
So it's going to be awesome.
Definitely be there for that.
On the Patreon patreoncom slashtrombone retreat I recently
interviewed Lucas Helzel, whorecently won a position in the
United States Marine Band, andwe just went over his entire

(04:07):
process on how he prepared andhow he went about winning this
audition.
It was actually a really coolstory and that's a video podcast
that you can check out on thePatreon as well as every other
episode that we've ever done.
And lastly, just rolling rightthrough these, nick, I love it.
We want to thank our friends atHoughten Horns.
So I don't think we've had apodcast episode since our life

(04:29):
has been so busy.
But I got to basically debut mymouthpieces at the Texas Music
Educators Association Conferencein San Antonio, texas, in
February, which is the biggestmusic education conference maybe
in the world.
And yeah, I had no idea what toexpect and the mouthpieces they
sold out in a day and a halfLike hotcakes, like hotcakes and

(04:53):
it was a pretty special thingjust getting to see the look on
people's faces when they triedit the first time and getting to
explain the process and we'rejust really proud of it.
And so there's a few out in theworld right now.
The next batch is about to bedelivered, so we have a few
pre-orders in already for those.
So if you're interested intrying them, get your pre-order
in now at houtenhornscom.

(05:14):
And also you can learn allabout the mouthpieces there.
So this talk with John.
I got to go be a guest artistdown at the University of
Alabama and it was kind of aninteresting situation because he
had just accepted this newposition at the University of
Illinois and we get into thatand his reasoning for that.
But he had literally just toldhis students like the day before

(05:37):
I got there.
So the energy was a little.
It was interesting.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
I bet yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
So I had an amazing time, though he's an incredible
host, like went out of his way,you know, driving me to the
airport at like four in themorning.
Just a lot of stuff he didn'thave to do, and his students
were wonderful.
I truly enjoyed it.
So you got to listen to it andI'm really interested to hear
your thoughts on the outro of it, but I don't want to give too
much away.
Do you have any initialthoughts?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
I guess my initial thoughts, just to like as a
teaser.
I just I find him to be warm,but structured in a, in as far
as his education is, or his, histeaching is concerned, and I
think that that's a wonderfulquality.
Both of those are wonderfulqualities for educator.

(06:25):
And, yeah, I'll leave it therefor now.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
It was nice venturing down into the land of where you
drop the last syllable in everyword Going to Alabama, alabama.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Alabama.
It's like the A's andapostrophes, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I only gained like 30 pounds while I was there, so in
48 hours.
So it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
It wasn't pretty good , dangerous yeah, well, please
enjoy this episode with JohnWhitaker.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Hi John Whitaker.
Hi, john Sebastian Vera.
Yeah, you got the full name.
That's good, that's important.
Hi, john Sebastian Vera.
Yeah, you got the full name.
That's good, it's important.
So to set the scene, here weare in the Hampton Inn, the
luxurious, spacious, beautifulHampton Inn.
Honestly?
I think so.
I mean, in its current state itlooks like a tornado hit, but

(07:19):
we're not going to judge that.
But it was a very niceaccommodation.
Thank you very much.
Where is the Hampton Inn thatyou're that we're currently
sitting?
So we are in Tuscaloosa.
There we go, and they don't letyou forget it, they have the
painting on the wall.
Yeah, just to remind you, whichis nice for someone that
travels a lot to wake up likewhere am I again?
Know where you are.
Yeah, it's good.
Okay, tuscaloosa.
It is my first visit to theUniversity of Alabama.

(07:41):
I'm honored to be here.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
Well, we are equally honored.
I mean, it's been a greatcouple of days.
I mean we've been I feel badthat I've been sort of working
you pretty hard, but just reallyinspiring lessons and great
class and recital today and it'sjust it's awesome to have you
here.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
That is very kind of you to say.
Yeah, I mean, that's how it issometimes.
You kindly asked me a while agoand we figured out a little
niche of a schedule to make itwork.
And we made it work.
And I mean I'm very tired butyou do it.
And the cool thing is it's likewhen you're a student you've
seen so many other guest artistscome in and do the same thing,

(08:20):
and so it's a model for you andit's like, okay, if they did it,
if they're tired, if theydidn't sleep and they taught
eight lessons and get recital.
Hell, I can't.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
And I don't know if it, if you're like this or not,
but it seems like I'll scheduleone thing and then get calls for
six others that happened to youknow bookmark.
Both ends of it it's like, ohwe, I can do that and I can do
that, and I can do that and Ican do that.
And then you realize thatyou're just sort of running on
adrenaline by the end of thesetours or these.
You know these trips cause this, you know you're on your way
somewhere and but anyway, it'salways rewarding and it's always

(08:52):
.
I love traveling and doingtrips like you're on, because
you have sort of fresh ears anda new audience that hasn't heard
or seen your thing, you knowit's always energizing, and you
get down to the end of the day,and then it's you collapse.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's a fun challenge and, yeah, you hit that wall and
it's like have you ever beentraveling for a while?
And then you go home and yourbody's like okay, now I'm going
to catch up or shut you down,you're done.
That's right.
That's right.
I'm sure I'm going to feel likethat after this trip, but
anyways, it's an honor to behere.
But anyways, it's an honor tobe here.
I've gotten to.
You know the original plan was.
I've always dreamed of justlike seeing what the insane

(09:29):
college football experiences atone of the biggest places.
We couldn't get that worked outthis time, which is okay.
It was mainly just so my nephewwould think I was cool.
But just being in thisatmosphere is really cool.
The music facilities aregorgeous, the vibe of everything
and just seeing the stadium andjust being around it like just
as advertised and yeah, quick,quick trip.

(09:50):
But so yeah.
So we're here.
I got to observe you inTrombone Choir, and how long
have you been?

Speaker 4 (09:57):
teaching here 15 years.
This is the 15th year.
Yeah, it's a long time.
I came.
I came in 2009, which, for thefootball fans that are I'm sure
there's a lot of football fansthat listen to your podcast but
that was the first SabanNational Championship at Alabama
and the first undefeated seasonin forever probably Is the
football team decent here, aboveaverage.

(10:20):
Above average.
Yeah, mark Ingram won the firstHeisman Trophy in the school
history that year, and I justassumed that it was because of
the new trombone professor.
You know, and oddly enough, thenext year, a good friend of
mine, henry Henninger, whoteaches at the University of
Oregon.
I don't know if your path isacross from Henry.
Great player, great teacher.

(10:40):
We were classmates together atIndiana University and I think
it was the fall of 2010 he gotthe job, the full-time job, at
the University of Oregon, andthey went to the national
championship the next year.
And so I thought well, if thefollowing year was a new
trombone professor and anational champion in football,
this was going to be at least anarticle or something put

(11:02):
together about the success ofthe football program and the
Trombone Studio.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
It should definitely be on your resume, I mean.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, I need to maybe edit that a bit, but I mean you
can't refute it.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
I mean, look at the record while you're there.
That's right, no problem.
So, man, there's so much totalk about with Alabama, let's
go backwards a little bit.
Yep, so we grew up in westernKentucky, western Kentucky.
You want to do a brief synopsisof how you came to the trombone
?
Really quick.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
I mean there was music in the house but it wasn't
trained.
I didn't have an opera singeror a concert pianist or whatever
.
But my dad still does and wasan avid guitar player.
So we always listened to musicor whatever.
And I loved my elementary musicteacher, who happened to be the
middle school band director inthe school that I went to and I
just could not wait to sign upfor band.

(11:51):
I wanted to play the clarinetand he said nope, you're tall
and have long arms, you'replaying the trombone.
I said great, so you werealways pretty tall, yeah, and I
had a very typical West Kentuckyhigh school band experience.
Marching band was a big part ofit and all state, all district
band, the typical stuff.
And I started taking privatelessons my sophomore or junior

(12:15):
year high school probably myjunior year high school with a
man named Ray Conklin, who Iended up studying with undergrad
at Murray State and from MurrayState I got a master's degree
at the University of Minnesotawith Tom Ashworth and then there
was a year after that I wastapped out.
I didn't want to do any moreschool, so I thought the most
logical thing to do would go andteach middle school band and it

(12:40):
was great.
A lot of positive came out ofthat year for me, but it was, I
realized, first of November ithad been several months since
I'd actually played myinstrument seriously other than,
you know, playing it with onehand and sort of goaltending,
you know, and directing trafficwith a bunch of middle schoolers

(13:01):
in the room and the other.
I got called for a gig in anorchestra that I had played in
previously and went and did thatand just the spark sort of got
relit to do what it is I'm doingnow.
So I auditioned at one schoolin Indiana University and went
to study with Dee Stewart and Igot when in Dee Stewart's tenure

(13:21):
there was that.
So it was later.
I'm guessing that he I'm tryingto remember when he so he
retired and Paul was Paul,pollard was his replacement.
Dpp, dpp, that's right, and soPaul has been there.
Gosh, you're putting me on thespot here.
No, I can tell you.
I can tell you because I wasprobably halfway through my

(13:45):
tenure at Alabama when Deeretired Mr Stewart it's funny he
was always Mr Stewart.
I would call him Coach actually, and if he listens to this
he'll be a chuckle.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I mean where you grew up, in Kentucky.
You don't call your superiorsby their first name, no.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
And even Carl Linthe was the same way.
He even once told me he's likeyou know, you, can you know?
When we're away from school youshould call me Carl.
And I said, okay, mr Linthe,I'll do that.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Question about that.
Like I've been struggling withthat personally.
Like how do you feel we talkedto Ava Orden about this and her
philosophy is, like I'mProfessor Orden, it's important
to have some sort of formalboundary.
Like I can see benefits of both.
Maybe the students can connectwith you better by calling you
by their first name, but alsoyou need them to hold that

(14:35):
respect.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
So when I first started teaching my first job, I
was insistent that they calledme Professor Whitaker and I
hadn't.
Actually I'd left Indiana havingfinished the coursework but I
had tests and different thingsthat I had to do.
But I taught a couple of yearsbefore I went back and finished
the degree formally.
But I insisted on them callingme Professor Whitaker or Mr

(14:57):
Whitaker or whatever because Iwas really close to some of
their age compared to now I'm.
You know, I'm getting up therein years comparatively and
there's a bigger gap between meand even my oldest students and
some of my colleagues at theuniversity that I started
teaching at sort of recommendedlike.

(15:17):
You really do want to set upthat barrier.
If I introduce myself tosomeone, my name is John, like
you know, and students when Itravel can call me whatever.
My students typically, you knowthey probably call you all
sorts of names, yeah, andsometimes not behind my back,
but anyway so did that year ofteaching band, four years of

(15:42):
residency for the doctorate inIndiana, and I didn't go there
to get the doctorate, I wentthere to take lessons from D
Stewart and I was going to be inthe Chicago symphony as soon as
I won the audition.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
That was sort of how those guys were going to retire.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
Yeah, a lot of respect, but there's still the
same section that I'm stillwaiting on, like oh they're in
their sixties.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
They're surely going to be a dancer, that's right.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
That's right.
But then I got closer andcloser to the end of that degree
and was advancing in someauditions but then put my name
in the hat for a couple collegejobs and was getting a look
pretty quick.
And then I got to thinkingabout the pros and cons versus
the full-time orchestral lifeand what I ultimately do now and

(16:24):
I made a run at it and got agig pretty fast, like
pre-doctorate being finished,which is really not that unheard
of from 20 years ago.
It's a little more unheard ofnow.
Maybe Not unheard of, buttypically a first job they're
going to require at least a hardfinish date on that degree.

(16:44):
You know, for accreditation andother things they want to hire
doctorates.
Places like the University ofAlabama are big flagship places.
They don't really care aboutthe doctoral degree.
If you have experience, perhapsplaying in the Pittsburgh Opera
and all the things that you do,they don't really care about
the doctorate in our departmenthere.

(17:05):
But the smaller schools it'skind of a big deal.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Did your perception of what this job would be like
being a college professor beforeyou started.
How different is it inactuality?

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, I thought I was going to have all the time in
the world to practice and thatfirst job even was before kids.
It was my wife and I in ourblack lab and I just thought I
was going to have all this timeto practice and I was really
going to finally put thefinishing touches on things in
my playing that I really wantedto fix.
And what you find is thatyou're so concerned, hourly,

(17:42):
every day, with everyone else'splaying, a lot of times more so
than yours and I remember goinginto it thinking, all right, I'm
not going to be one of thesecollege professors that sounds
like no, no disrespect to any ofmy colleagues that might be
listening, but you know there's,there's the, you know the.
You know people refer to it asteacher chops or whatever you
know, and I just you know it'sreally hard to teach full time

(18:08):
and like sound great all thetime, and I think that's why so
many of the people that do whatI do for a living plan projects,
recital tours, recordingprojects we were talking earlier
today my favorite playing thatI get to do relatively regularly
is concertos, like with bands.

(18:29):
I love that because it's aspecific amount of time.
You kind of gauge yourconditioning and your endurance
level based on what you've gotto do to get through, and you're
just sort of up there airing itout.
I love that and I just you'reso focused on the way that
everybody else sounds which youshould be, that's your job that

(18:52):
it's easy for things to.
You know your priority levelshave to sort of change.
And then when you start afamily and you have children and
they have interests, and youknow it gets tough.
And so I just thought, well,yeah, I'm professor of trombone
at fill-in-the-blank X, I'm justgoing to practice all day, and
that couldn't be farther fromthe truth.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
There's a certain level of altruism and
externalized, we're sohyper-focused on ourselves and
being our best version.
And then, when you'reresponsible for all these young
people and their futures, whichare like we're not you're not
like teaching law school where,like, everyone's going to get a

(19:29):
job you know you're like that'sa huge responsibility.
So all of a sudden it forcesyou to like, really think
outside yourself and about thebigger and very quickly you
think about what is it?

Speaker 4 (19:40):
I mean, there's specific ways you say things you
know and specific advice yougive them and you know it really
makes you sort of hang on, kindof like the year that I taught
middle school band.
It's like these kids this isprobably their favorite class,
like their band class.
It was when I was in the 6thgrade.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I bet you were a fun middle school band director it
was.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
You know, the funny thing is is the first week I
wore a suit every day Because Ijust wanted them to, not, I mean
, I have a tendency of being alittle bit lighthearted and I,
you know, it's actually part ofmy teaching philosophy that I
want people to laugh and feelcomfortable in a lesson so that
they, it helps get the best outof them.
Like, I don't feel like anybodyplays really well when they're

(20:21):
scared I certainly don't.
But yeah, I wore a suit and itwas like super structured and
super official for the firstweek, just so they knew that.
You know, new sheriff in townkind of deal, and that went away
very quickly.
But you really have to becareful of what you tell a sixth
grader, brass player, do this,do that, because they're going
to go home and do everything youtell them.
And if you tell them somethingwrong, it's like you know,

(20:44):
tighten your lips and blow hardfor high notes.
Like it's like that'd be adisaster you know, for a bunch
of high school kids and it kindof is that way with a bunch of
college students too, the onesthat are really bought in and
are doing exactly everything youtell them.
You have to be really carefulabout how you explain things.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
So, going back briefly, like talking about the
challenge of feeling your bestand playing your best when
you're, you know you'reresponsible for all these young
people in in a certain sense,and I imagine there's a lot of
it's a sacrifice on your part,but there's also probably it's
like having a family right.
It's like all these otherbenefits that may be.
Actually, I kind of asked aboutthat now.
Yeah, were there surprisingbenefits from having to like

(21:28):
this whole new levelresponsibility?

Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, I mean it's I feel like I have in over the
years I've I feel like I've hada pretty unique personal
connection or relationship, somemore than others, but could sit
down with the list of any ofthe students that have come
through the studio in the last15 years, and even the five
years that I taught in Arkansas,and tell you something about

(21:51):
them, tell you something abouttheir family, tell you something
about their background, whattheir musical interests were.
Most of them I could tell youwhat they're doing now, whether
being in touch with them or justsort of social media or
whatever, and so that's a realrewarding part of the
responsibility of trying tofigure out what makes them tick
and trying to figure out howthey're going to best learn,

(22:14):
because they don't all learn thesame way.
You know you can't, you can't.
There are some that if you sortof even look at sideways,
they're just going to lose it,and there's others that you've
got to really put your thumb on.
They just respond to that typeof instruction or motivation.
They just sort of need a littlenudging, you know, and that's

(22:37):
what sort of makes everysemester and every year and
every class interesting and fun.
And it is a big responsibility.
You know, because I don.
You know because you can't, Idon't feel like you can teach
every kid the same way.
And so the fun part like kindof back to your question the fun
part of that and theresponsibility is getting to
know everybody individually andand then sort of tailoring your
approach to to how they are aspeople and what their needs are.

(23:01):
No, no, not all of them want tobe in the chicago symphony.
You know, not all of them wantto be in the Chicago Symphony.
Not all of them want to be banddirectors either.
We talked at all thesedifferent paths and different
interests.
I've got several in my studiothat are double majors aerospace
engineering and computerscience and all this stuff.
But they want to play well.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
And that's the argument for you know, you'd
have to say that this level ofteaching job is one of the most
personal jobs, maybe on campus,because what other class are you
not only meeting with the sameteacher every semester, but
one-on-one every week for anhour?

Speaker 4 (23:40):
For eight semesters or nine or ten.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
So like you can't keep a distance, like you have
to build some level of trust, Iimagine, yeah, where's the line
of like how close you get andyou know, because I mean the job
feels like part-timepsychologist.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
Sometimes these kids are going through the most
formative times in their livesAbsolutely, and that's part of I
think that's part of theresponsibility of the job
transformative times in theirlives, absolutely, and that's
part of I think that's part ofthe responsibility of the job,
you know, and I and one of thefirst things I do with a new
class of people is they.
They come in and I help them geta calendar set up and I help
them get their phone, like Ihelped them get all of the
technology, because we do, youknow everything, we've got a

(24:19):
bunch of different technologythings that we use for within
the studio, but I sort of makethem they're one of their first
lesson assignments is I want youto put your entire schedule in
for the semester.
I don't care if you don't thinkthat you're going to remember
that.
You have theory monday,wednesday, friday or whatever
class it is.
Put it in and I show them.
If they have never done it and,of course, that's getting
easier and easier.
As you know, generations comethrough that have were born with

(24:43):
an in their hand you know, it'sjust easier.
But set up all your recurringstuff, use color-coded, whatever
you want to do, and I show themmine and their minds are blown
with all the different stuff andmy daughter's calendar and my
wife's calendar and you know.
And then I have them look forblank spots and fill in those.

(25:03):
The first thing you fill in allthose blank spots or practice,
you know when are you going to.
And I say get your firstsession in as early in the
morning as you can stand it toget it out of the way.
But also do it while you're.
You're mind is fresh, you'renot, you're not thinking about
you know what professor tickedyou off in your 9am or whatever.
Get it done, fill it all in andwork like mad until five or six

(25:26):
o'clock every day and then onyour horn and everything so that
you don't go home after yourlast class and you get dinner
and you've got all this homeworkand studying to do and you
haven't practiced yet.
You know, and just setting thatup from the beginning it's like
trying to teach them timemanagement stuff and then we
move on and then you know,usually middle of the second
semester you're starting to kindof figure out what makes them

(25:48):
tick and why it is.
They learn the way they learn,you know, and maybe what's
happened to them in their pastor what they're able to share.
But you're right, it's likepart-time therapists sometimes
and I can tell sorry.
I can tell sometimes when theywalk in the room, and
particularly if they walk in theroom and their horn's not
unpacked, I'll just look at themlike we're not playing today.

(26:09):
Are we what's wrong?
Sit down and there's a couch.
You saw the couch in my officeand it's.
Look at this picture and tellme what you see and I can just
tell when they come in the roomand we'll get through a long
discussion and I'll apologizeSorry.
And we'll get through a longdiscussion and I'll apologize
Sorry, we didn't play it.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
No, no, this is exactly what I want, and then
it's like, okay, is there ever aline where they take advantage
of that?

Speaker 4 (26:31):
or you've got to be careful.
I've sensed that a few times inmy career.
I tried every.
I had every strategy.
I had every question.
I had every strategy.
But I think every now and thenthey know that you know.
And sometimes the big sort ofget out of it is, hey, can we
play duets?
And then I'll be like no, wecan't play duets today.

(26:53):
If I suspect sometimes we can'tplay duets because I haven't
played yet that day, it wouldn'tdo either one of us any good to
just pick it up and just slamthrough it.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
I mean, that shows your wisdom right there.
And I'm totally stealing thatbecause in my young career being
a professor it's alwaysfreshmen, sophomores, it's the,
it's the same main issues oftime management.
And then if they're notmanaging time from the beginning
, college is overwhelming enoughto start Then they get
overwhelmed yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
It's time management and it's accountability too,
because they don't have anybodychasing them to their next class
, like in high school, and Ialways tell them to find a
practice buddy, you know, warmup in pairs, warm up in threes.
Oh, that's good Because, likeyou know, if you make a date or
appointment to meet someone atthe gym at a certain particular
time to go work out or go playracquetball or do whatever,

(27:51):
you're more likely to do thatbecause you've made a commitment
to your buddy or to whoeverthat you're going to meet there.
Rather, it's like I don't feellike going to the gym today and
kind of the same way, trying toget younger students some of the
younger students that we gethere, you would think at a
conservatory it wouldn't be anyissue trying to get somebody to
you know practice.
But but at a, you know,sometimes at a state school,

(28:12):
it's like just look, you know,set up a, set up a time and and
cause, you're going to feelreally bad, badly, that you miss
that, if you set and the otherperson came, and then if I find
out about it, I'm going to makea joke about it in trauma
inquire or something.
It's like you know everybody'son it.
They're going on to you, youknow.
So there's all these littletricks and just things that you,

(28:32):
you know, that you learn, andthe one thing I have learned in
doing this as long as I have isthat none of the excuses and it,
and because I don't, it's likeI just don't, you know, I can
see right through that stuff nowbecause I mean, how do you
balance it out with?

Speaker 1 (28:50):
like you said, every student's different and I and
the instinct.
I feel like for a lot of peopleand I remember talking to john
kitzman about this the instinctwhen you first start teaching,
for a lot of people is you teachhow you were, you taught, we
were taught, or you teach howyou consume information, or how
you learn.
It's like love languages, it'slike you show love, how you

(29:12):
receive love, instead of tryingto understand how someone else
receives it.
So, yeah, how do you?
I mean, there's so manyscenarios of a talented student
who's lazy At some point.
You can't practice for them?

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Yeah, I think the talented student that is lazy,
that does sort of the minimalwork, I sort of put the carrot
out farther to where at somepoint they're going to come in
and I'm not purposely trying tobreak them, but they're going to
get to a point to where theycan't learn this etude in a week
or play this solo or just, youknow, play duets with them and

(29:51):
sort of put them through theringer a little bit and be like
well, you know what, what'sgoing on here.
You're a lot better in this.
How come you're not?
You're not.
Yeah, the other thing that Ilike is the.
Well, I played it perfectly inthe practice room earlier and I

(30:12):
always like what is it about theGPS coordinates of my office
that makes you terrible?
You know it's, you know, and I,you know.
I do believe that there's someof that.
That happens because there maybe some anxiety when they come
in the room or just like thisokay, I've got to deliver it.
But usually by the time theyget through their second year
and sort of up to the middle oftheir degree, all of that's sort

(30:34):
of worked out and we've figuredeach other out and worked out
the thing and then it gets fun.
You just sort of sit there andyou're almost more of a coach
than a teacher.
At that point it's like did youmean this and what are you
trying to say musically here?
And hey, that's sharp, and youknow that that kind of stuff,
instead of like really having toget your hands in there to try
to, you know, fix every littledetail, because they figure it

(30:56):
out on their own and how topractice, and then it gets
really fun.
When are you having most fun asa teacher?
The weekends?
No, I'm just kidding.
I think it is those.
It's like recital prep andthose times to where you
literally particularly when astudent will bring a solo or
something that they're going toperform for the first time and
it's meticulously prepared, andthen you just sit there and you

(31:20):
question every musical decisionthey make.
What are you trying to say here?
What did you trying to say here?
Did you mean to slow down there?
Did you mean for this, which isthe most important note of this
line Well, that's not the wayyou played it and having that
kind of that's super fun and Idon't ever try to impose.
You know you've got to play theTomasi.
The way that I play the Tomasimusically.

(31:41):
I don't Now if there's somebody, a younger student, that's like
has zero anything coming out ina matter of communication like
I'll program in sort of yourtraditional musical.
Start here.
Yeah, morsel Symphony, all thatyou know, and those are great
teaching tools because of that.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
And Rimsky-Korsakov, your favorite.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
No, no, no I have a no Rimskaw or Scoff policy.
I need to put a no stairway toheaven.
Sign up like at Wayne's World.
How dare you?
I just can't do it.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
What do you have against arpeggios?
Let's move on.
No, nothing.
I think arpeggios are important.
Beat that major.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
I don't know why that piece drives me nuts.
I think part of the reason isthat when I was a graduate
teaching assistant at Indianaassistant at Indiana I taught it
every semester thesenon-maintenance.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
I think there's a level of disappointment too,
where we got this very prettygreat composer to write us a
piece, and this is all we got.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Can we borrow some from Scheherazade or something
and do it?

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Did you write this in an afternoon?
The second movement's alright.
Yeah, it's pretty.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
I'll give you that.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
You know, there's some stuff.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
I'll give you that.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, so Rimsky-Korsakov is your favorite
concerto.
Yep, that's right.
Please call John and schedulehim to play this with your
ensemble.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
JS Vera on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Hey, I'll play it.
Okay, it's like I walk in and Idon't know the person that well
and we kind of just use it toget to know each other.
But you and I have been hangingout for like Two solid days, 48

(33:17):
hours straight.
Yeah, you're even in there whenI'm warming up yeah, warming up
, you know, eavesdropping,trying to learn something, and
it's yeah.
So we've had all these awesomeconversations, so it's it's,
it's fun to just jump right inand talk about things.
But I do want to.
You know what an all consumingjob because, again, you have to
be so selfish.
I get to worry about my ownplaying the majority of the time

(33:40):
.
I have my students, you havefound ways.
You have a family, you have twokids, a loving wife, yep, great
dog, whose birthday it is today, yeah, today's.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
Wrigley's birthday.
Happy birthday, Wrigley.
Wrigley was our pandemicproject.
We got him the day before thestay-at-home order went in
effect in the state of Alabamaand it was great once the
pandemic was over.
But there were some roughmonths in their training Golden
Doodle that, but anyway it's.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
There's some golden doodles like exploded with
popularity, like everyone wasgetting because they're like
hypoallergenic, they don't shedthat's why we got a sweet that's
why we got him and they're likeamong the top five cutest dogs
when they're little yeah, and hewas supposed to like the the.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
We got him from a breeder and picked, picked him
specifically, took the the kidsand my daughter actually was
like that one.
She picked him that's awesomeChanged his name I mean his name
was I think, his name was no,his name was Theo.
There was another one namedDexter.
I was like, no, we can't getDexter because he'll turn into a
serial killer.
You know that TV show.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
I was trying to think of the name of the stadium
where the Cardinals play, orsomething.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
I lost my train of thought there a second.
You're going to have to editthis out, ribby, or fine?

Speaker 1 (34:55):
I don't remember that's easy, but yeah, you did
the thing and got the dog andthat's awesome.
Oh, I remember.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
The breeder told us that he was going to be 40
pounds and he's 75.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
He's a big boy, he's massive yeah, I've only seen
pictures but, yeah, but he'sawesome, he's awesome and
they're so springy.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Oh yeah, it's like Still got a lot of puppy in him
at four.
Still he's very.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Any food on the table is gone, done.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Like he is the ultimate counter surfer.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
So, yeah, you found ways to balance such a consuming
job.
It's not like you're at a smallschool, you're at a big school.
Yeah, and we haven't gotten toyour work with the marching band
yet, right, right.
But before we talk about that,you've developed some hobbies
that have spoken to you.
Prolific photographer, right,how did we get into that?

Speaker 4 (35:46):
So, before, that you used the word balance and I
remember very early in my careermy goal every week was to try
to find balance and I think Ihaven't figured it out yet.
There's not been one semesterthat I've like my schedule, like
how I organize my lessons andwhen I do this.

(36:06):
I have not found that.
And maybe the last semesterthat I ever teach, maybe that'll
be the one that I sort ofstrike it, because you have so
many different hats that you'rewearing and then family and kids
and hobbies, like you said, andall that anyway.
But the photography thing cameon kind of by accident in a way,

(36:27):
when my wife was pregnant withour oldest.
It was sort of around Christmastime and we were like what
should we do for the familyInstead of giving each other a
Christmas gift?
We're going to have this kidthis summer and we'll get a
camera.
So I got one and took a fewpictures of it.
It was mainly just to takepictures of her.

(36:47):
And then I have a couple offriends in the profession that
are really great photographers.
Anthony Barfield is a goodbuddy of her.
And then I have a couple offriends in the profession that
are really great photographersand Anthony Barfield is a good
buddy of mine and remember westarted hanging out I think the
first time in like 2007 doingearly Alessi seminars and some
other projects that we'reinvolved in, and he'd always had
a camera with him.
Oh really, and he would alwaystake a picture and I'd look at
him.
I mean, how do you do that?

(37:08):
So that was a little bitinspiring.
And then a really good friendof mine, chris Branigan, who is
in the Pershing's own Army bandand actually is an incredible
photographer and does a lot ofmedia work and public relations
for the Army band or whatever.
He came as a guest artist.
He conducts the WashingtonTrombone Ensemble.
He came and conducted theTrombone Choir and my jazz

(37:33):
trombone ensemble at theuniversity was playing an
outdoor event at a cigar bar.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Do, you like cigars, I do you never talk about them.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
No, well, I've only been trying to get you there for
a couple days.
Someone has to be responsible.
This week, I know, I know, butanyway I was taking pictures and
he's like no, no, and hebasically gave me a little mini
lesson right there, that thing,and then I was like oh, then I
got into it, then I was kind ofhooked and then fast forward to

(38:00):
gosh, I can't remember the yearnow it's 2024.
No, I mean, I'm getting up towe.
We went on a trip with themarching band at alabama, my
wife and did to New Orleans tosee Alabama play LSU in the
national championship it's theone that LSU's offense didn't
make it past the 50-yard line,in case your listeners care and

(38:21):
I had to take that camera.
That said camera with me andwas taking pictures and showed a
couple pictures on the back ofthe camera to the band director
and he said oh man, these aregreat, we actually need a
photographer, could you do it?
Had to the band director andhe's like oh man, these are
great, we actually need aphotographer, could you do it?
I had no idea what I was doing.
It's one of those things likeyeah, I can do it, I can do it.
And then all summer it's likeYouTube, it's like and bought
some gear, whatever, and thensort of, the rest really is
history.
I've been phot.

(38:43):
I don't make any money to dothat there's several things
about that but I do getcredentials and get access to
football and it's justoutrageously fun.
But I do take some seniorportraits and weddings and stuff
like that a little bit.
But the stuff I really like totake pictures of are outdoors,

(39:04):
hiking the Milky Way and campingand wildlife.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
You'll go on photography trips, we go on
trips?

Speaker 4 (39:10):
Where are some of the ?

Speaker 1 (39:12):
places you've been well.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
So most recently was smoky mountain national park.
It's close to here, about sixhours, and chris branigan and
chris and griego and up inelkhorn our buddy up there and
some have just went camp for twoor three days and took pictures
, and you know, and several,I'll try to get to colorado
every year just to take picturesof that stuff and I've got a

(39:33):
whole list of places that I'dlike to see.
But we took a family trip up tothe upper peninsula of Michigan
one summer, yeah, to try tocatch Northern Lights and do
some of that stuff, did you?
I've never seen it.
I've never seen it.
It's kind of a bucket list kindof thing for me.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Can we do a trip to Iceland?

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, let's go, you book it, okay, and I'll go along
.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
We'll contact the trombonist in the Iceland
Symphony and set something up.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
You know what I think ?
The bass trombonist in that, ifI'm thinking of the right
orchestra might have aTuscaloosa tie I might be
thinking of the wrong one.
David, what's his name?
I don't have to look it uplater, but anyway, yeah, that
could be our end right there.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, that's the tricky thing, because it's like
there's no guarantee of theNorthern Lights, right?
So you have to take a chance,right?
And if you don't get them,you're basically traveling like
I paid a lot of money to hangout in the dark and cold.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
You can kind of.
You can't really predict it,but there's when the solar flare
happens.
You can get a.
There's apps and there's emailsand stuff which raises the
probability of you might beingable to see it.
So if you live within a 10,12-hour drive and if you were
willing to sort of like hey,it's Thursday, the thing went
off.
It's usually three or four dayslater you go up there and
there's a chance, but then ifit's cloudy, you're screwed.

(40:56):
I'm going to do it one of thesedays.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
That's a bucket list thing.
It's been noted.
I've talked about that.
Yeah, that would be amazing.
I always wondered what NativeAmericans and early people when
they first saw them what theythought was some sort of
spiritual sign or something.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Yeah, probably know what it is yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
So some photography trips, and I'm curious, first of
all.
I mean, it's such a beautifulart form, yeah, and I imagine
there's a lot of transference ofjust the musicality and the
skills that you developed as amusician that have applied, yeah
and it's something creativethat's not playing the trombone.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
That's kind of what is attracted and it's a little
bit techie because there's gearto learn but there's also.
You push the shutter and itworks, it goes off.
There's no air balls inphotography, but you can mess it
up, the exposure can be wrongor whatever.
But I feel and I've been onsome photography podcasts before
and one of them wasspecifically talking about the

(42:00):
correlations between music andphotography- Really.
Yeah, and the interesting sortof thread at the end of it was
sort of finding your voice, likefinding your voice as an artist
, as a musician, also findingyour voice as an artist, as a
musician, also finding yourvoice as an artist as a
photographer, like how you seelight, how you compose, what you
do with the file Once you getit on the computer, like the
post-processing thing, is kindof, as in a lot of ways as

(42:23):
creative as the actual art oftaking the actual photograph.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
There's a lot of it like instinctual, as far as,
like, once you understand howall the tech works, you're kind
of just using your eye andfollowing what feels good.
It gets that way, yes.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
And I have this trick with myself when I'm in a new
room or in a new lightingscenario, I try to pretty much
guess what the camera settingsare going to be, and then take a
test shot to see if I guessedit right.
Oh, this looks like this ISOand this shutter speed is going
to get it, or whatever, and justtry.

(42:55):
Do you have one of those likelight sensors things?
No, I don't have one of those.
That's just a movie thing.
No, they know that.
That's a.
That's a legit thing.
It's just I never shot film atall, it's all been digital.
And now, with mirrorlesscameras, like you, what you see
through the viewfinder isexactly the way the picture is
going to come out.
It's cheating in a way.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
I just think light is so incredible.
Yeah, and like in my veryamateur photography, like I
realize how important light,like you can try to compose the
best photo ever.
But if the light is amazing,like the light, the, it's like
hard to take a bad photo, that'sright.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
And if you're in the most Epic spot and the and it's
midday and there's no clouds inthe sky, it would say it's just.
It's that's when you see a lotof black and white imagery yeah,
because there's like.
You know they're saying it'slike yeah, if you see somebody
post a picture in black andwhite, it means they screwed up
the exposure.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
So I do that on my Instagram.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Anytime it's like a great picture.
Yeah, filter.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
And they always get more likes when they're black
and white.

Speaker 4 (43:49):
Like're so artistic.
Wow, yeah, well, I just had toget something out and the photo
sucked.
That's really cool, it'sawesome.
It's just something that wejust do and I've got a lot of
friends that are musicians, that, like I said, chris, and
Kristen Griego is getting reallyinto it.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Oh, you're about to get me into it.
Yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
Pat Sheridan is a good friend of mine.
He lives in Arizona so Itypically try to take a trip to
see him every year and last,let's see, it's been two years
ago now.
We went out and we had had thisplan he calls me the
weathermaker because we'd hadthis plan to go to like around
Page, arizona in southern Utah,to catch the milky way, and it

(44:36):
was march and so it's low in thesky.
So you get these archingpanoramas of the milky way and
book the trip six months inadvance.
Sure enough, lay there or landthere and the whole region is
socked in with weather andthere's no visibility there.
There was one gap in the mapfor like 12 hours and it was
Joshua Tree National Park.
So we drove to Joshua Treeinstead and we camped in his

(44:59):
truck and we got some epic stuff.
It was really fun.
Are you a golfer?

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yep, I've always.
I've always.
I visited Scotland for thefirst time a couple of summers
ago with my family and I visitedScotland for the first time a
couple of summers ago with myfamily and I'm just like, first
of all, it's one of the most,because I'm sure you've visited
some of these places and they'rejust like.
I can't describe how beautifulthis is.
You just have to be here.
It was one of those and peopleask you how it is and you're

(45:25):
just like did you go to?

Speaker 4 (45:27):
Old Course did you go to?

Speaker 1 (45:28):
uh, yeah, andrews I walked on it, yeah you can walk.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
I'd love to stand on that bridge.
Yeah, I have a picture.
Yeah, I'll show you.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
I'd love to go there, but anyways, it just made me
think it would be the best guystrip of like or you know if
ladies would like to play golfand drink a lot of scotch.
That's right, that's right.
But yeah, a group of guys andyou play on these beautiful golf
courses, drink amazing whiskey,take photos.
Yeah, go hiking.
Yeah, we'll just put that nextto iceland, we'll do it I'm
brainstorming.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
We might, once we're over that way, we might as well
do both cool.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
So you found this balance and that's such a
beautiful hobby and it's stillartistic.
It's creative, like what do youthink the best traits in a
hobby are to like?

Speaker 4 (46:03):
you.
I think it's it's.
It's distraction from for me atleast, it's distraction from
whatever it is that you might bedealing with at work or in your
playing, if you're goingthrough a struggle or just
whatever it's.
You know, and that's the wholething about balance If your
whole life is nothing but youknow long tones and ride the

(46:24):
Valkyries, and at some point inyour life it has to be that way,
if you want to really make arun at it and and I, I didn't
have any hobbies when I was inschool like I was, you know, I
mean I did play golf, but I wason it like I was really.
But you know, for me it is tokeep that balance so that I'm
not just walking around all thetime thinking about work or
thinking about student x'smiddle register or thinking

(46:46):
about, you know, trombone, choirrehearsal.
They still can't get this onething in tune or whatever it is.
It's, you know it's, and Iliterally can honestly say, even
on most of these trips withmusicians, like I can honestly
say I don't think about thetrombone or think about teaching
or any of it at all for acouple days, and that that's.
I think that's, that's what yougot you got to step away.

(47:06):
That's right.
That's right.
I didn't know that, I didndidn't.
I mean I, you know that was notearly, even early in my career,
like in early teaching here, itwas work, work, work, work,
work.
And you're trying to get tenureand you're trying to be
established and it's like youknow anymore, it's like I don't,
I don't actually really careabout that near as much as like

(47:27):
okay, am I?
Am I able to give my studentswhat they came here for?
And if I'm not taking picturesof something or taking a family
trip or doing something elseother than that every several
weeks, then I'm going to be kindof lousy in the lessons, right,
and how do you, when you do,get to focus on you and your
playing, what are the most?

Speaker 1 (47:49):
you talked about playing concertos and you've
gotten to play with orchestrasall around the country and you
have everyone's friends withJohn Whitaker.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
Yeah, well.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
And you know you had such a long tenure running the
Alessi Seminar, which must havebeen a crazy experience.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
It was awesome and it was really important in my
getting started here.
It was important for me as astudent, having gone to the
seminar and then gotten theopportunity to run the first one
that I ran, which I believe itwas 2007.
And then 2009 was the first onethat he offered me a spot on the

(48:27):
faculty as well, and we had agreat team.
We took a really a lot of careand making sure the experience
was just so.
But a big part of all of thosewas getting to sit and watch him
teach all day and it's likethere's just so much stuff that
you sort of picked up on andgetting to play and getting to
play alongside of him and it itwas just just an unbelievable

(48:52):
you know unbelievable experience.
I mean, I think the last time Isaw him no, it's not the last
time I saw him, but one of themore recent times was at the,
the ITF in Columbus, where I metyou the first, you and Nick the
first time we he and I hadgotten.
He'd gotten to ITF a couple ofdays early for rehearsal and he
and I went over there early toplay golf.
Like we played golf and justhad a ball.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
By the way, that's still one of my favorite
meetings.
We're just walking down thestreet and some guy behind us is
like hey trombone retreat.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
I listen to you on the lawnmower.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I know that's what I said.
Hey, that was one of the bestcomments ever, yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
I do no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
And you're.
You're such a connector withpeople and you.
You're so personable and easyalong with and you're a great
listener.
You've been incredible hostsand way generous with your time.
We don't have to talk about youdriving me to the airport at 4
am tomorrow.
I have something I needed totell you about.
So your taxi will be here.
Yeah, that's right, your show.
But there's something togetting to know people.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
It's about relationship building and not
about, hey, tell me about yourhouse.
The trombone is sort of thestarting is the jumping off
place, you know, obviously thestarting is this.
This is the jumping off place,you know, obviously.
But I mean I and I I would wayrather play in a section or
chamber music or whatever withwith people that I know and that
and that the vibe is reallygood Cause then you don't really
have to worry about, you don'thave to worry about any dynamics
, you don't have to worry aboutit sounding good, you don't have
to worry about hurting anybodyfeelings, you know it's like hey

(50:29):
, you know, I think this is,this is sharper, this is this or
this.
I mean it's just okay, okay,great.
You're sort of coming at it allfrom the same, you know, from
the same thing you want to hangout?
With your friends yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
So back to a couple, if I may ask some more teaching
questions, just to pick your,your big teacher brain, yeah,
teaching.
So now at the collegiate level,20 years, how have you?
Has the student mentality, theaverage student mentality,
changed over time?

(51:02):
Have you seen?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Students are unbelievably distracted now,
more so than they were even 10years ago, really, and they are
in a general statement.
They are more so than they wereeven 10 years ago, really, and
they are in a general statement.
They are a lot of them arelooking for a quick fix.
And some of them are lookingand that's not just in my studio

(51:23):
with this and I'm not speakingof anyone in particular, but
also I've talked to a lot ofother professors about this
topic, and I don't think I'm theonly one that feels this way is
that they're looking for aquick fix, and they're often
looking for it elsewhere notwhat happens in whatever studio
and just buy in and commit andsort of do the work.

(51:44):
Now, there are people in everyclass or every I'm doing air
quotes on a podcast, I'm notsure why, but every generation
of studio, so every cycle ofstudents, right, there's always
two or three that just do it,you know, and they just and I,
you know, you've heard a coupleof them today and I've had
several throughout my life thatare in my career that are just.
They do what you tell them,exactly the way they tell them,

(52:06):
and when you, when you speak tothem in a lesson and you ask
them to change something, theirresponse is okay.
Instead of well, you know,sebastian Vera said on his blah
blah, blah you know what I mean.
And I don't really take offenseto them being excited about
information.
I mean, really I'm in the jobof trying to like.

(52:36):
For example, if a guest artistcomes in and says something and
it clicks with a student, thenI've done my job.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
I may not have been responsible for that thing
clicking, but I was responsiblefor bringing the guest in and
providing them with thatexperience, and sometimes I'm
literally saying the exact samething I know you've said a
million times.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
Someone out of town with a CD and a website is a
expert, and I'm the guy that'shere all the time.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Or sometimes it's just like hearing it Right,
exactly, secondary, exactly.
Oh, maybe my teacher's notcrazy.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
Exactly.
And so I think I think they'rereally, really distracted and I
think they're really they, theyneed they.
You know, I'll tell I'll.
We'll figure out something insomeone's sound or someone's
technique or articulation.
And I said now, you know thismight take you six months for it
to be default.
You can't go into the systempreferences and click a checkbox

(53:15):
and then it's fixed, you know,and you know you come back the
next week and it's probably notgoing to be any better.
You know these are long.
Sometimes these are long, youknow, long things to fix, you
know, and some students justcan't, they just don't like that
.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
I mean, this is an old school trial and error blue
collar like hey, we're going todo 0.25% gain every day.
Yeah, I mean every now and thenthere's something that you can
fix pretty quickly.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
That's always great in a master class Like you have
some tricks.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
Yeah, you got to have a handful of those tools that
make somebody immediately better, and every good teacher has
that.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, but at the same time it's like, in a way, we
have to be empathetic becauseit's like all they've ever known
is things working very quicklythat's right and connected to
their devices all the time andinformation overload all the
time.
That's why they don't listen toanything and information
overload all the time.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
That's why they don't listen to anything.
You know the interesting thingI was in my tuba colleague at
Alabama.
I was in his office a week agojust talking about something.
I went to look on the door andhe's got something hanging on
the doorknob that I nevernoticed.
I'm like what's that?
He says that's where theirphone goes when they come in
this room.
Whoa, and I was like, okay, I'mon it.
Love that I'm going to figurethat out, and we'll go through

(54:33):
periods of time where I'll makepeople leave their phones in
their trombone caster andtrombone choir Just so that when
they're resting they're notscrolling, they're just paying
attention.
I haven't had really any issuewith that as of late.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I always say, the best hack for the simplest app
technically not an app, but forproductivity in the practice
room is Airplane Mode.
Yeah, exactly, you can use yourmetronome tuner still.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Well, and the other thing about all this, too, is
that with social media and theinternet, everybody really feels
connected to all thesesuperstars and these heroes and
they see all these reallywell-established people putting
out content and making practicevideos and making this or that
or whatever you know.

(55:19):
But the people that I'mthinking of didn't really have
any of that stuff.
I mean, they've accomplished agreat deal and they a lot of
them are able to put out.
Put out this stuff which youdon't see, behind the 100-day
practice challenge and all thesethings, is the years of

(55:40):
solitude in a room with notechnology and, like our heroes
and we probably share somecommon heroes you know we talked
about Joe earlier.
He didn't have Facebook when hewas 18.
You know we talked about Joeearlier.
He didn't have Facebook when hewas 18.
You know he practiced a lot,I'm guessing.
I know he did.
But, you know, john Kitzmandidn't have, you know, have to

(56:04):
check his Snapchat or whateveryou know.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
And I really think that's a great.
I'm trying to imagine thatimage right now.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
You're trying to imagine Mr Kitzman on Snapchat.
Yeah, but I think it's a.
I think in so many ways it is.
It's made them impatient.
It's also made them not able to.
Discernment is not a skill thata lot of young musicians have.
They can't.
They for themselves can'tdiscern quality levels.

(56:35):
From recording to recording torecording, it's what's the
easiest access you know.
Hey, did you listen to recordingsuch and such?
Yeah, I got one Great One.
That's okay, that's a start.
Who was it?
I don't know Where'd you findit?
Youtube, like the first thingthat popped up.
I heard the one recording yeah,the recording of Mahler 5.

(56:57):
There's just one and it's onYouTube or whatever.
I'm fighting those battles allthe time.
I'm pithy about it.
I kind of rib them about it.
I'm going to be 50 this summer,so I don't know if 50 is when
you can officially play the oldman card or the old teacher card
, but I'm playing it right nowbecause I'm twice the age of

(57:21):
these people.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
It's like with every technological advancement
there's a lot of things that arenegative but there are a lot of
things that are positive.
So can we somehow use this to apositive?
Yeah, yeah, they're moreconnected, I guess.
Yeah, you're more exposed, butI guess there's more quality
over quality.
Yeah, I do.
I do see sometimes that,especially if they're only

(57:45):
listening to recordings and notgoing to live performances,
there's a perfectionism thinginvolved with they.
They think it should always beperfect and all mess it up.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
All of those recordings are lies, you know,
and some more than others.
But there's always, yeah, theperfectionism thing.
That's a great point.
And you know the other thingthat I was.
I have a I liked your airplanemode thing.
But I have a thing that I do atmaster classes a lot about their
phone, and if people havelegitimate social media
addiction or just addiction totheir technology, I tell

(58:15):
everybody to make a folder andput all of the apps that,
whatever they are Snapchat,tiktok, whatever Twitter, x,
whatever it is put it in afolder title the folder in bold
letters go practice, wow, inbold letters go practice, wow.
Then on the phone, make as manypages as you have to scroll and

(58:37):
put it on the last page and then, before you turn your phone off
, get in the habit of resettingit to where it goes, to the home
screen.
So then if you're in thepractice room and you pick this
up and you make severalconscious decisions to turn it
on, to scroll over to read thewords go practice and then click
on tiktok, then it's like, okay, that's a habit that you sort

(58:59):
of have to break and it, youknow, I've heard from dozens of
people that's like, yeah, I didthat for six weeks and it really
helped, and now I just don'tpick it up in the practice room
anymore.
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
What are you most proud of during your career so
far?

Speaker 4 (59:15):
The successes that each individual have, and that
doesn't necessarily mean winningan audition or whatever.
Sometimes people get midwaythrough their degree and they
realize that they would ratherbe X than a trombone player, and
I love that because theyfigured out what they want to do

(59:37):
.
But just hearing about theirindividual successes whether
they win an audition or they geta college job of their own and
have students of their own orstart a family or whatever I
mean that really is the's a it'sthat that really is the thing
that I'm sort of the most proudof, and maybe secondary is the

(59:59):
culture that we have established.
It's, you know, my, I have ateaching philosophy that I've
said hundreds of times atdifferent places is, and it's
simple, it's offer the bestexperience possible Now.
And it's simple, it's offer thebest experience possible now.
I always qualify that by sayingI'm not saying it's the best
collegiate trombone experiencein the country, not saying that

(01:00:20):
it's also, but it is the bestexperience that I know how to do
, based on my experiences and myteachings and the resources
that I have at the institution.
I'm going to do everything Ican to make sure that's just so.
Guest artists, you knowtrombone choir a vital part of
what we do studio hangs, youknow, chamber music, section,

(01:00:42):
coaching, all of the stuff youknow.
I'm pretty proud of sort of themark that that has made you
should be, you know, on thepeople that have come through
that and I think pretty muchwithout fail, everybody would
tell you that has been throughit, that they had a good
experience.
I hope so.
I really hope that there's notthis whole group of people that

(01:01:02):
study with me.
They're just like oh, it wasjust awful.
I don't think.
I hope not the experience.
I might be feeding them a lineof garbage when it comes to
fixing their whatever, but theyhad a great time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
At the end of the day , it's a family.
That's right.
It really feels like it, justeven being here for 48 hours
yeah, I mean that's a specialthing it's a good bunch and it's
you know.
How do you go about like?

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
building trust, is it ?
Just I want to get to.
I try to get to know them assoon as possible, and we've
talked about this a couple timesdriving around and I try to
make them laugh as quickly as Ican, huh, so that they feel
comfortable coming in the roomto sort of be vulnerable and
play something that they'remaybe not good at.
And so if I know somethingabout them and the lesson

(01:01:49):
usually starts with you knowhow's your boyfriend, how's your
girlfriend, how's your this,how's your that?
You know how's this professorthat you hate treating you like,
just know sort of what makesthem tick.
You know, and and you start toaccumulate that as they go
through the program a little bit, you know.
Then, when it's time to sort ofall right, let's fix your mental
register or whatever it is,then we're sort of they, I think

(01:02:09):
, have a feeling that we're sortof going at the thing together,
yeah, and we're after the samething, but I'm not, it's not
this, we have to do it this wayor you're never going to.
You know it's like all right,let's figure this out.
Defenses are down.
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
It's probably something when they realize that
you care about them.

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):
I hope so, yeah, I really do and I do, and I think
I think most of them feelcomfortable.
I mean, I, you know, they, theytalk to me about things that
are completely not related, youknow, and that that makes me
feel good too, that they trust,like, hey, can I talk to you
about something?
I've got something going on.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I need some help with what, I need your advice, or I
just need to get this off mychest, or whatever so 15 years,
yep, been at the university ofalabama, yep, and something that
we've been talking about and is, you know, will be breaking
news, probably by the time thispodcast comes out and you can
talk as much or as little as youwould like to about this and

(01:03:06):
you have a new position.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
I have a new appointment pending and by the
time this is released, it willnot be pending.
I've been offered aprofessorship at the University
of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana.
Yep, there's one personclapping.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Just like my recital tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
They were all clapping.
There was only one person there, but they were all clapping and
I'm super excited.
I just think that it's gonna.
It's a the opportunities thereare.
Are there no boundaries on whatmight be possible there?
But between the, the otherfaculty and the facilities and
the resources and the sort ofthe culture of the school and

(01:03:48):
the history of the school as a,as a total school, I'm just
super excited to sort of getstarted and kind of build, build
a destiny, hopefully build adestination to where it's.
You know it's on the list ofplaces that people look.
I have no doubt I'm I'm veryhopeful.
Why, though?
I just kind of felt like it wasthe right time.

(01:04:09):
There's been several years, sowhen I first got here, there
were a couple of jobs that Isort of put my hat in the ringer
for and was way too early.
You know, eastman, all theseplaces for professional and

(01:04:31):
personal growth for me indifferent ways there than I have
here, because of the resourcesthat they have at the school
versus the resources we have atour school at Alabama at the
moment in funding andcollaborative piano and just a
bunch of things that I don'tknow I just saw potential to be
able to sort of do more and domore for myself but but more

(01:04:55):
importantly, do more for anothercrop of students and if you
know when people are able, whenI'm able to talk about this with
people and then, hopefully,students look at the program.
I don't know what the roll slidehook is going to be yet.
I don't know what the hashtagwill be.
I know I'm like I it's way cartbefore the horse can't start

(01:05:18):
lessons until you have your.
I can't even.
They probably won't even let mebuy a house until I have the
website bought.
But I'm hoping that what they dois that they can look at the
15-year record of what we'vedone here, both on the website
and our youtube channel andsocial medias or whatever, and
and it's literally the cultureand everything it's all going to
be transplanted to there.
There probably won't be as manySouthern accents and the

(01:05:40):
barbecue won't likely be as good.
Closer to the Cubs it's exactlycloser to the Cubs and having
the Krannert Center ofPerforming Arts right there and
Chicago Symphony Schulte used torecord there.
Chicago Symphony plays therevery regularly.
Lots of really importantmusical acts come through town
and it's just right across thestreet.

(01:06:01):
I mean, that's one of thethings I'm really excited about
is having sort of an arts, alittle bit more of an arts sort
of thing happening to be able togo and listen to new music or
go see a ballet or go listen tothe whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
It's such a cool location.
We were looking at the map theother day.
Yeah, because you have Indy, stLouis, chicago, so many great
orchestras, and I also havefamily history with that school
and I have cousins that live intown.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
They don't know about the job yet, but they will by
the time everybody knows.
But my grandparents are buriedhalf an hour from there.
Wow, both sets of grandparentsare buried there.
My parents grew up in the area.
I was born close to there.
It's a couple hours closer tohome from there to where my
mother and my brother live andwhere Amy's my wife's family, is

(01:06:50):
right there.
It's close.
It's a little bit of a quick.
It makes it a little bit moreof a quick.
Hey, let's go down for a day,rather than we need to plan a
trip.
I'm a huge Chicago sports nut,so, like, that's how I sold my
son.
It's like hey, dude, they'retwo o'clock game at Wrigley
field, we can eat breakfast at15 years in any place is a long

(01:07:20):
time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, I mean for any job.
I mean just the change ofscenery alone is going to is is
excited.
I'm excited for you, yeah, butI I can't imagine this was an
easy decision.

Speaker 4 (01:07:30):
Not at all, and it's students and colleagues and just
you know, we kind of made alife here a little bit Like our
son was born here, a kind ofmade a life here a little bit
like our son was born here.
Ainsley was my daughter, wasone when when we moved here I
think her pitching coach mightbe the person that is the most
upset.
It's like she was the one.
I actually called her the othermorning on the way to get you

(01:07:50):
to the airport because she wasone of the people that I hadn't
hadn't told, because now, at thetime of this recording, my
students know and my colleaguesknow they don don't know where,
but they know that something'scoming.
How was that experience?
It was tough.
I mean, the first 10 minuteswas rough.
I had to sort of stop.
Tears didn't come out but I waschoking it back and they could

(01:08:12):
tell.
And then I sort of ripped theband-aid off and told them and
there was sort of this awkward,what felt like minutes, but just
a few seconds.
And then I just told them andthere was sort of this awkward,
you know what felt like minutes,but just a few seconds.
And then I I just told them.
You know, I told them severalthings I said.
One of the things I said isthat if you all took out a pen
and paper right now and wrotedown 10 things that you thought

(01:08:35):
were why I was doing this, you'dget seven of them.
They probably would you knowcause they're.
They're, they're payingattention, they're smart and I'm
, I'm I'm in the mostprofessional way possible.
I don't, I'm not very guardedwith them about stuff you know
and they ask questions that sortof trigger you know.
They all they get it Okay.

(01:08:56):
The other thing I've told themis that there's not a person in
this room that wouldn't do thesame thing if you had the
opportunity, because of a lot ofyou know, because of the terms
of my appointment and contractand just things that they're
very eager and armed to build a,to help me build a really

(01:09:17):
special thing.
And it's so, but it was.
And then 20 minutes in, I letthem ask some questions and
stuff and then we were rightback to laughing and cutting up
and making fun of you know, thetwo or three punching bags in
the room.
It was, it was, it was great.
There's always a couple ofpunching bags, that's right.
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
But there's, I mean there.
It's not like all of yourstudents will graduate at the
same time and you don't have todo anything?

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
There really isn't, and you know we're starting to
have conversations with each ofthem individually about.
You know I let them get it offtheir chest and then I give them
advice and I tell them I saidI'm going to give you advice
that I would give you if I wereyour parent, if you were my
child, what I think you shoulddo, and somebody that's right at

(01:10:03):
the tail end of their.
There's no reason for you toget in the transfer portal.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Wouldn't that be nice if all you had to do was upload
some recordings and then somegreat guy calls you.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
Yeah, you need a solid third partner quartet
citizen.
You need a good defensivelineman.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
We got your player and they'll just secretly give
you some cars.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
Yeah, I would love some NIL NIL.
That doesn't come in theTrombone Studio at all, but it's
been.
You know, there are people andcolleagues and experiences that
I'll miss, and when people whatwill you miss the most?
Probably some colleagues.
You know that'll be tough andwhen people find out about this,

(01:10:54):
when this actually I meanpeople already sort of know it's
kind of starting to make itsway through.
You know, already sort of knowit's kind of starting to make
its way through, you know.
But when the general, likeeverybody knows, there's going
to be a lot of head scratching.
You know, because it's likethey see my posts on my personal

(01:11:14):
accounts about, you know,standing on the sideline in
Alabama football and taking allthese trips and working with
this, what I think is one of thebest, if not the best, college
marching band in the country andall this, like, how in the
world would you give up this?
But you know, as we know,nobody's sort of airing their
dirty laundry on their socialmedia.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
There's no microphone here.
I mean you could say everything, yeah well, no one's listening.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
Look at the time, but it'll be the colleagues and
sort of the relationships thatI've built with a handful of
them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
And like we were talking about I don't know if
you're aware, since you'vealways been here, but there's a
fairly sizable fan base forAlabama outside of Tuscaloosa.

Speaker 4 (01:11:56):
I understand that their football games are
televised.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
I'm pretty sure you'll be able to watch.
Yeah, but based on your record,based on the team only being
good while you're here.
If you leave, we're going tosee what happens next year, I
mean.
I don't think it has anythingto do with saving.

Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
Alabama in the last 15 years and I've kept track of
this 188-21 in six nationalchampionships.
That's you know.
So if next year they lose sixgames and Illinois makes it to
the Rose Bowl for the first timein 20 years you know, build a
statue, by the way, just quickly, like how I would love to see

(01:12:38):
that statue.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
I'm imagining what pose you'd be in.

Speaker 4 (01:12:41):
I'd have the ring of confidence on my chops for sure.
Like it would look like, I justplayed a high F for 20 minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Just briefly, like how hard is it to be and like
the coach you hired is like anincredible coach, right, but
like how hard is it to bereplacing this Nick Saban?
And like how little a leashwill you get if you lose four
games?

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
Well, I'm going to go on the defensive for the new
coach here and if you look atour schedule, I mean Saban could
have lost three games nextseason.
I think it's the second orthird game.
We're at Wisconsin, whichhistorically they've got a
strong whatever.
It shouldn't be any issue.
Then the next game, georgiacomes here.
There won't be any bigger gamein college football than that

(01:13:26):
next season.
Fight me, there won't be.
We have to play at Tennessee,which a couple years ago they
sort of broke there.
There were people that likethere were teenagers that had
never seen Tennessee beatAlabama in football.
It was funny.
Then we last second it was, andI was there.
It was brutal At Tennessee, atLSU, at Oklahoma, which is now

(01:13:50):
Oklahoma and Texas are in theSEC now and there's.
So there's this sort of it'sbrutal.
You know the schedule is brutaland I say, if he gets 4-0,
beats Georgia and beats Auburnat the end of the season, it
doesn't matter what happens inthe middle Fan base-wise, he's
going to be fine.
Now, with the new, we've gotanother hour to talk about this,

(01:14:13):
but with the new playoff format12 teams there's no way they're
not going to be in the playoffs.
Sure, sure, it's just like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
So it's just a bad it's because it's all rigged
anyway, so it's all rigged, it'sa.
you know, paul Feinbaumbasically picks the four teams
and then you know, as forsomeone that gets to experience
this rare phenomenon of you,know, for a listener in
Australia right now when we'retalking about college football,
clear, which is, you know, ofthe major sports, it's like it's

(01:14:43):
the number one college sport asfar as I mean.
March madness can get a lot ofattention, but to describe what
the energy is like and what itfeels like being on a sideline,
you get to go on the sidelineall the time taking photos, you
get to work with the marchingband.
The energy, I mean, can you?

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
even describe.
No, and it's unbelievable andit never gets old.
Week after week, you walkthrough the tunnel onto the
field before the game's evenstarted and it's like walking
down the Coliseum in Rome.
You know, it's just like this.
How many people?
103,000.
103,000.
Yeah, yeah, all sober.
Yeah, it All sober.
Yeah, it's like anything.

(01:15:23):
And then being in the stadiumin a big, particularly a night
game against a rival, you know,at LSU or Tennessee or whatever,
I'm so mad I didn't get to go.
You know what?
We can still go.
They're not.
You know they're not.
Contrary to what people mightthink, since Saban retired,
they're not shutting down theathletic department.
There will still be games.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
They're not putting it all into the music department
.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
Now I haven't read that memo yet, but there's ways
We'll get you in a game.
But it is pretty unbelievableand if you follow the sport at
all I mean I was you know 25yards from where Tua threw that
pass to Devontae Smith in theNational.
Championship oh wow, second 26.
You know the number of games.

(01:16:08):
That was a good game, amazing.
I was at the Auburn kick sixgame.
Ouch, it's brutal.
I hate going there.
I'm just going to say that forthe record for all your
listeners.
It's a miserable.
I hate going there.
I just hate it so many memories?
Because it's just like freaky,freaky things happen.
We beat them by three or fourtouchdowns every year in

(01:16:30):
Tuscaloosa.
It's always a one-score gamedown there.
It doesn't matter how good theteam is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
That's why you love rivalries because it doesn't
matter if your rival is 3-10that season, it'll be because
they know you Right and theirwhole season is worth it.
If they just beat you that onetime, yeah, but we could talk
about Alabama football foreverOne of my favorite subjects.
It's got to be such anadrenaline rush.

(01:16:54):
I mean, do you have a crashafter games?

Speaker 4 (01:16:57):
Yeah, I have a routine after games, actually
regardless of what time the gameis over.
I go home, I put the memorycards from the camera in the
computer and I start justsucking down all of the files.
I go and change clothes out ofthe stuff that I've been wearing
all day, I get a cigar, I go onthe back porch and I try to

(01:17:19):
find 10 images that are socialmedia worthy and edit them and
send them.
I used to do the social mediafor the band too, so I just made
it a point I wanted to postbefore I went to bed, and now we
have someone great that doesthat, and then I just sort of
feed pictures and so I just liketo get a handful of them edited
and whatever.
And so the decompress is watchwhatever lame West Coast game is

(01:17:44):
on late at night I'm teasingbut watch the late football game
, have a cigar, put my feet upjust sort of decompress.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
You've got to bounce it out.
Yeah, I mean it's like because,literally, the chemicals
happening after that sort ofadrenaline it's equivalent to
being at a rock concert.
Yeah, adrenaline, it's like,it's equivalent to like being at
a rock concert.
It's nuts I mean.
They even talk about, I mean,musicians.
There's those studies of evenclassical music.
Musicians can experience thesame chemical release of
euphoria and you're feeling itlate at night and that's why so

(01:18:15):
many musicians need to go to thebar and have a drink and why
there's drug issues in all.

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
All music is because you have this high and you got
it, but that's but you also feelit on the on the flip side too,
after a rare loss.
It's just like you just feellike you've just been kicking
the gut why do I like this game?

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
yeah it's like why I'm a dallas cowboys fan.

Speaker 4 (01:18:32):
Oh well, you, so you don't like the playoffs no, I
it's.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
There's something way worse about having being sold
high expectations every year andconstantly being laid down.
I would much rather have a teamthat just is terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
How is it, being a Cowboys fan and living in
Pittsburgh, do you followSteelers at all?

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
You know, to anyone in Pittsburgh over the age of
like 45, they hate the Cowboys.
I mentioned it, that was aright.
They remember the Super Bowllosses.
Yeah, I remember those.

Speaker 4 (01:19:01):
that was a right that's like they remember the
Super Bowl losses.
Yeah, I remember those gamesmost people under a certain age.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Don't care, and it's interesting like living when I
lived in New York City.
Most people are not from NewYork City, so you like whoever
at the bar.

Speaker 4 (01:19:13):
If you go to Philly, you better like Philly teams but
if you, if you put on some Bamaswag and take a run through
Central Park, you're going toget five or six roll tides.
It's happened.
I love that.
It's like every anyway.
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
I love that Roll slide.
We barely even talked about it.
That's right, the best hashtagever.
Roll slide.
Okay, I think it's a good timefor some rapid fire questions.

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
Oh, here we go.
I've been a long-time listener.
I'm anxious to see.
Which I very much appreciate.
By the way, I'm anxious to seewhat we're going to get here.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
Well, you know the first question advice to your
18-year-old self, I would saymake it a habit to take care of
yourself physically andpsychologically, mainly
physically.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
Make it a habit.
When you're young, establish ahabit of taking care of your
body, exercising and my weighthas fluctuated quite a bit and
I'm sort of trying to get itback down to a reasonable thing
you should walk to Illinois.
That'll do it, yeah, daily.
But make it a habit to sort oftake care of yourself and and

(01:20:21):
yeah, that's what I would telltell myself.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Good answer.
Hmm, let's see.
Well, you, this would be good.

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
I mean favorite, favorite recording that you've
been a part of that.
I've been on.
You just played me anincredible yeah, people need to
hear.
It was probably recordingAnthony Barfield's Soliloquy.
I was in a trombone quartet fora long time called Stentorian
Consort and the recordings arestill out there on the streaming

(01:20:54):
stuff.
I'm incredibly proud of them.
It was a great group.
We commissioned Anthony towrite this piece called
Solically for Solo Trombone andTrombone Quartet, with Joe
Alessi as a soloist and sittingnext to him in a recording
session and he's playing thesolo part and I'm playing lead
in the quartet and so we have alot of this stuff paired

(01:21:15):
together or whatever.
And it was so intense and itwas incredibly rewarding to be
able to sit next to your heroand try to keep up Try.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
And I just want to say you just played a recording
of you soloing on the Mackie.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:21:34):
Hymn to a Blue Hour and that's absolutely gorgeous,
thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Can people hear that?

Speaker 4 (01:21:40):
Yeah, it's on Spotify , apple Music.
It's on one of my, one of mydiscs, and I'm the most proud of
that track in particularbecause the background are were
students of mine at the timeundergrads, and a couple of grad
students, and I'm as proud, ormore proud, of the way they
sound than you know anythingthat I did on it, but it was, it
was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
I seriously recommend listening to that.
It was absolutely gorgeous andso well recorded and so
beautifully played.
Thanks, I got to listen to itright before we did this, so
that was really cool.
Let's see.
Oh man, there's a lot of goodones.
I just jot down a lot of these.
What do you think, your youngerself?
It's almost the reversequestion of the 18-year-old.

(01:22:21):
What do you think your youngerself?
It's almost the reversequestion of the 18 year old.
What do you think your youngerself would think of the life
you've created today?

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
I think they'd be excited.
I think I'm kind of doing whatI always thought that I wanted
to do.
I meaning that I wanted to bedoing music right For the
longest time, I wanted to be aband director and and do the
thing.
But that that that wore offpretty quickly.
But the fact that I'm teachingat a flagship institution, I
have all these students.
I've had all this really coolstuff that I've gotten to do.

(01:22:47):
I think they would be.
I think they'd be pretty stoked.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
What advice would you give to a person starting out
on a path that that you've beenon like?
Wanting to do a universityteaching position, wanting to do
a university teaching position.

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
Yeah, I mean, it requires some school and we
talked about that earlier interms of the degrees and all
that sort of stuff.
I think you've got to play justas well to get one of these
college teaching jobs as you doto get a playing job anymore,
because there's so many.
I think there's a lot of peoplelooking at the life and the
career that an applied musicteacher has the flexibility, the

(01:23:25):
artistic outlets, the.
You know you're not reallylocked into playing what they
tell you to dream, but you'vegot to play incredibly well and
you have.
You really need to have otherskills that market you.
You know you've got to bestrong.

(01:23:48):
I think you need to be strongin other areas be able to
conduct, be able to be able tocoach chamber music, be able to,
you know, teach theory, teachthis, teach that.
I mean I think it's going tobecome more and more necessary
for those things to happen.
You know, and your, yourmaster's degree is incredibly
important because I think thatdegree is a practice degree.

(01:24:09):
It's usually, academically, isthe less rigorous of the three
traditional degrees and you needto go study with a teacher
that's going to just put youreally get your your really get
your playing in shape yourdoctorate.
You need to study with someonethat is placing people in the
job market, and there's a lot ofpeople that are doing it and

(01:24:32):
that's by and large.
That's the only reason to get adoctorate really is if you want
to be a full-time collegiate,if you want to get in that break
into that door.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
Sorry, that wasn't very rapid fire no I love that
that was such a substantiveanswer.
That's going to be helpful to alot of people.
So we haven't talked much aboutit, but you have a young
softball superstar in yourfamily, yep, and you are a very
proud softball dad, I am.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
It's like, just yes, I'm very proud.
I'm not going to say what I wasjust saying.
I am all in.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
I love it and we're not talking like, oh, I go to
the games and I cheer for mydaughter, you're working with
her all the time, you're helpingher.
There's such a.
You've explained this process.
It's such an intense,competitive, like any division
one athlete sort of process youhave to go through to get
recruited.

Speaker 4 (01:25:26):
It's way different than just like playing your horn
and going to show up auditionday.
I mean, the whole recruitingprocess is completely different
and when you can talk to themand when you can't talk to them,
and who you can talk to, andhow you talk to them and
correspond, and then it's likeSeptember 1st of their junior
year.
Then how you talk to them andcorrespond, and then it's like
September 1st of their junioryear.
Then all bets are off and thenthe phone starts ringing or

(01:25:46):
whatever, and you really go toall these tournaments with your
travel ball team, where they'recalled exposure tournaments, and
all of the college coaches goto watch these games and then
you find out which collegecoaches are going to be at the
game and then on your Twitterfeed, you tag all these coaches
and you email the coaches.
Here's my schedule I'm playingfield six.
It's this whole thing and youjust hope that they and, as a

(01:26:07):
pitcher, you hope they come andwatch you when you're in the
game.
You're not.
You know you're not on thebench or playing your secondary
position or whatever.
What's the best part about beinga softball dad?
The time ball dad, the time Iget to spend with her.
It's unbelievable we have, Ithink, and I don't know if she'd
say this or not, but the hourit takes us to drive to her
lesson and the hour it takes usto get home after her lesson is

(01:26:29):
like my favorite part of theweek, you know, because and she,
you know she's maturing andshe's 15 and has got like real
things to talk about.
You know, it's like you havethis real connection, this real
relationship with her.
It's just awesome.
So she has like lessons likepitching coach Every week we go
see a specialist in just alittle bit south of Birmingham.

(01:26:49):
Wow, and they, you have tobring a catcher with you, and so
I'm the designated catcher.
So I'm sitting on your bucket,on the bucket sideways, protect
the chops and with a, and I I'mthe only, I'm the only dad in
there wearing a face mask, andof course, people ask me why do
you?
And it's like it's for my job.
I'm a lip model.
I can't take it.

(01:27:09):
And the other thing is thatthere's nothing soft about
softball.
Those things hurt and whenthey're coming at you 56, 57, 58
miles an hour and you miss andit hits your ankle, it's not fun
.

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
What I would say is well, I mean, I'm a trombonist
and I have a very strong arm.
I'm just protecting thesoftball.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
It's like you should put a big ring of confidence in
the side of a softball.
But no, I am all in, I justlove it and I love how into it
she is.
And I mean you heard us.
We were in the truck after youknow, called home to sort of
talk to everybody and I was likeand like, put her on the phone,

(01:27:50):
how'd you pitch, how was your?
How was your curveball today?
Who got a hit?
No, I'm gonna, but you know she.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
She spoke to us in a british accent.

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
Yeah, she's like, yeah, she, I can't.
She would never do that if youwere face to face with sheila
barris.
Miss, it's pretty cute the wayshe can kind of carry on.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
So, man okay, that's awesome.
So, yeah, photography andsoftball, dad, those are.
That's great balance.
Yeah, since you're a tim ferrisfan as well, yeah, and you
called me out for my tim ferrisquestion.
I stole.
I'm going to ask you it.
Okay, if there's a billboardthat the entire world could see
and you could write anything onit, what would it say?
Trust the process.

Speaker 4 (01:28:23):
I stole that from my colleague Nick Saban.
You know we're employed at thesame institution.
Oh, did he coach here?

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Yeah, have you heard of him?
He does the sports.

Speaker 4 (01:28:33):
He's the sports ball.
Okay, yeah, Cool, Trust theprocess and I have this whole
clinic that I do at universitiesand I did it at the Midwest
Clinic a few years ago about thecorrelations between coaching
and what we do as musicians andbasically take two or three of
his famous speeches that peoplehave watched on YouTube and took
point by point by point andporting it to specific music

(01:28:55):
things and down to the well,he's talking about this, these
are your long tones and this isplaying your drums and this is
rhythm work, and it's so easy todraw inspiration from somebody
that is such a greatcommunicator as he is and
teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
You should have gotten that thing with your
studio where you just touch thatbutton and the door opens.
Yeah, I need to do that.
I'll work on that.
Then you never have to stand upyeah, I need to do that.
I'll work on that.
Then you never have to stand up.
Yeah, I just make them open thedoor.
I imagine you've hadconversations with him.

Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
No, I've photographed him a bunch and he comes to
band rehearsal every camp andtalks to the band and so he's
there and I'm always takingpictures.
But it's always made very clearthat when he's around it's not
a photo op.
He's there and then he leaves.
He's polite and stuff, but he'scoming straight from practice

(01:29:48):
and he does a thing.
And then that afternoon we takethe leadership and the seniors
of the band over to footballpractice and get to watch
football practice and then teachthe freshmen the fight songs.
If you ever watch those clipson ESPN, there's a chance that
you can see me in the backsniping with my camera.
We did have an interaction oneof my first years.
I was driving from where I tookmy son to daycare and passing

(01:30:13):
the football complex to go tothe music school.
I look up and here he comes.
He's in the turning lane.
I'm like, oh my god, there'sNick Saban, I, and here he comes
and he's in the turning laneand I'm like, oh my god, there's
an excitement, I got to play itcool.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
So I sort of put my hand up on the steering wheel
and I sort of gave it one ofthose attaboys.

Speaker 4 (01:30:28):
You know, raise a hand.
And he gave me.
Yeah, he did.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
I'm like we're boys, boom, we're boys so, basically,
you, you talk about him but youdon't talk to him, and you've
taken a lot of photos of himyeah, so we're pretty much
besties you're the equivalent ofa stalker.
I mean by all definitions, youknow one of millions.

Speaker 4 (01:30:47):
Yeah, you know that's very cool.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
Yeah, well man, I I literally, I mean, I have been
talking to you all day, yeahsorry and I know it's been such
a pleasure, and you know I'mexhausted, but you've just made
this whole process so wonderful.
Well, I appreciate it and I'mglad that, because we've been
talking- We've beencorresponding on and off and

(01:31:11):
little.

Speaker 4 (01:31:12):
Facebook thing or Instagram things and text stuff,
and then when we started tosort of plan this visit, I just
wish Nick were here, actually.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
It's all right.
Does anybody ever say that no,Okay, no, he's fine.
He's just an AI that I put into like make fart jokes every
five minutes when there's a lag.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
Yeah Well, next time we hang we'll have to make sure
we have the whole crew togetherso we can get the full retreat
experience.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
Well for sure, and he will be listening to this and
we'll be talking about it.
Yeah, I think I'm also nervous.
You two in the same room.
I mean, is that going?

Speaker 4 (01:31:45):
to be bad.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
Yeah, I mean, who knows what will happen there.
Well, maybe we shouldn't turnthe microphone on for that, for
that one, but man it's.
It's just been really nicegetting to know you I've I've
had such respect for you fromafar for so long and just
getting to watch how you workand even in a small dose and in
the way you've treated me.
It's been just a reallybeautiful little trip and I feel

(01:32:08):
honored to be here.
I feel like you're, we're wemight be friends now.

Speaker 4 (01:32:12):
Yeah, I think we're in the club, I think it's.
I think we're gonna have tosort of keep this thing rolling.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
So let's, we'll do it again so we'll text at like 3
am every night.

Speaker 4 (01:32:19):
Well, maybe tomorrow, since we got to go to the
airport.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
So my god, we can call each other and look at the
moon at the same time yeah, Ifelt bad.

Speaker 4 (01:32:27):
Actually, I called you the other day about some
details of your trip and youwere just waking up and saying,
oh, this is a terrible way towake up, like me I needed to get
out of bed.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
No well, this has been awesome.
In closing, is there anythingthat we didn't mention, that
you'd like to say?
Huh?

Speaker 4 (01:32:50):
I don't know.
I think a career in music isworth the effort.
I think the worth the effort.
I think I mean it really isrewarding when you find the
where you want to be in theprofession, whether it's, you
know, playing the pit in anopera or playing a major

(01:33:10):
symphony, or teaching, or eventeaching middle school band.
I mean I have the most respect.
The middle school banddirectors are probably the most
important people on the planetsand get getting foundation,
getting people started andinterested in music.
And you know, and that's why Ireally don't have, I have a
pretty open mind about, you know, talking to marching bands or

(01:33:31):
going and talking to middleschool bands and it's just all.
You know, that's what theyenjoy and you know.
I just think it's really worththe trouble.
You know, because I have thissaying and that we've I've
talked about with friends andfamily all the time.
It's like being a musician.
You have one in.
You have one more verytime-consuming and incredibly

(01:33:54):
important thing to do every daythan sort of the normal person
and that's practicing, and a lotof it regularly in a room by
yourself for hours on end, andit's not always pretty and it's
not always fun and it's it'seasy to sort of just talk down
on yourself and sort of beatyourself up, but it's in the end
it's like we get to do this.

(01:34:15):
You know we get to.
We get to talk about theinstrument and the repertoire
that we love.
The best part about it is thehang.
I mean it's absolutely the mostimportant and best part is the
after-concert hang or the funnystuff that happens in a
rehearsal, and it's just totallyworth it.
So I would assume a lot of yourlisteners are college-aged or

(01:34:36):
whatever, and maybe some of themare in the middle of a degree
and they're just like it's like,stick it out, it's just my mom
that listens to this Just yourmom.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
I hate to burst your bubble, wow, but it's just so
worth it, you know, and it'stotally worth chasing, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:34:53):
Maybe that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
That's great.
Mr Jonathan Whitaker, yourstory has been amazing so far
and it continues to be written,and your story has been amazing
so far and it continues to bewritten, and I couldn't be more
excited for you in this newchapter.
Once you get there, you'regoing to thrive and I can't wait
to come see you there and I'mjust so excited for you and this
has been really cool and we didit, we made it and you're still

(01:35:17):
awake.

Speaker 4 (01:35:17):
We're still awake.
Let's just stay up.
I'm going to let you stay up.
I'm going to go home.
I live not far from here.
I'm going to go lay down.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
Very cool.
Well, yeah, we'll get somesleep and yeah, this has been
awesome.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Thanks, man.
Oh no, it didn't record any ofit.
Sebastian.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Sebastian.
Yes sir, I have one word forJohn Whitaker.
What's that Perseverance?
Ooh.
And let me explain myself, youknow, please do.
He went to school and then hewent to more school and he went
to more school and then went tomore school and then he decided,

(01:36:04):
all right, I'm going to becomewas a middle school band
director and then decided thisisn't the path for me and then
decided I'm going to go outthere and try to be a trombone
player.
And then decided this isn't thepath for me either and got a
job teaching, you know, and thenkept rising through the ranks
and like he continues to do so,which it's hard to keep

(01:36:26):
succeeding as you get older.
It doesn't matter how old youare, how young you are, it's
like it's.
It's hard to keep up that driveto keep succeeding, and I I
found that to be kind of my maintakeaway from his whole story
found that to be kind of my maintakeaway from his whole story.

Speaker 1 (01:36:44):
Yeah, I mean, it's almost things we don't say out
loud sometimes.
But making such a move likethat, you know it's usually
people with big job changesYou're you know, maybe in your
twenties, thirties, maybe yourforties, but like that's a
that's a big move.
And he had been there a longtime and I'm sure a lot of
people thought he'd be thereforever and it wasn't public

(01:37:06):
when we recorded that, it wasn'tpublic knowledge yet, so like I
couldn't release it right away,but it meant a lot to him and
you could tell he really thoughtabout it and I mean he's one of
those people that you can justtell is going to thrive wherever
he goes, because he's beensuccessful wherever he's gone
and you just see the waystudents look at him and I mean

(01:37:27):
he's a fantastic trombonist too.
I got to hear him play andfantastic teacher and yeah, I'm
just really excited to see.
It's like a new friend, becauseI really didn't know him that
well when I went down there andwe just kind of hit it off.
Now we're texting all the time.
I think I've just replaced youwith him as the first guy I text

(01:37:49):
.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
A little southern drawl in the hang.
I'm really happy for himStarting a new chapter,
especially when you have afamily're.
You've been used to a wholesituation for was it 15 years he
was there you listened to itmore recently than I did, so I I
was.

Speaker 1 (01:38:08):
I was like half half awake, right?

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
I don't think he said 15 years he was at alabama and
you know that's a long time tobe in one place and then to
uproot, I mean it's, it's reallydifficult.
So just that alone, just theuprooting part of it, not to
mention a whole change ofscenery.
Getting a new house, likefinding your new grocery store,

(01:38:32):
all this stuff is just likethings you don't think about
when you're like young andtrying to get a job, and it
doesn't matter what that job is,you don't think about the
logistics.
But like when you get older,it's like.
It's like you kind of get rootsset in the ground and it's it's
hard to change habits and youknow it's while a lot of it's

(01:38:53):
the same.
I mean he's going from being atrombone professor to being a
trombone professor.
He's changing environments in acomplete way.
You know everything's going tochange.
So you know I I'm really happyfor him and, um, you know he
does, he deserves the best, he'sa really good guy and, um,
anyone who's studied with himjust has nothing but the

(01:39:14):
greatest things to say, and thatsays a lot because, uh, you
know it doesn't have to be thatway, but people wax poetic about
him.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
You know life's a lot about, at least professionally,
navigating that fine line rightBetween finding that dream
thing that you just love doingevery day and getting that
stability that you want.
And hopefully, if you can findthat sweet spot where you kind
of get both, which is it's apretty rare thing.

(01:39:48):
And you know, sometimes on thatpath to pursuing that thing you
really really, really love, youget tempted by that really
comfortable thing or that thingthat maybe provides
opportunities for new goals youhave in life or raising a family
or whatever, like I don't knowit's.
It's that's kind of the fun ofit.

(01:40:08):
And so you know, especiallywhen you get really locked into
something, it's it's pretty rareto to step out from it and it's
also kind of scary, of courseit's scary, like change up your
whole scene, you know no matterwhich way you're going, like.

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
I mean, obviously a lot of his change is within the
same boundaries of what he'sbeen doing, but it's.
It's a change nonetheless andthere's going to be growing
pains.
It's not quite the right word,but it's in the right realm of
what I'm thinking about Adaptingadapting pains, I suppose.

(01:40:45):
But that goes with any changein your life and I'm impressed
that he's willing and able to doso far enough in his career
that, where most people wouldnot be willing to uproot like
that, it's hard be willing touproot like that it's it's, it's
hard.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
It's hard with your voice, like it is right now
Dealing with the cold.
Could you go to a children'sbookstore and just buy about 20
classic books of literature andjust record some bedtime stories
?
Cause man, I would just love tolisten to that Nick Schwartz
narration as.

Speaker 2 (01:41:18):
I fall asleep, I think I would run out of voice
about 10 pages into a book.
I'm right on the edge of losingmy voice right now.
I've been trying not to speakmuch.

Speaker 1 (01:41:29):
Sorry, and I'm like please tell me everything you
think.
Have you seen those sleep storythings where Matthew
McConaughey reads you a book andit's like an overly detailed
book and you just kind of likecan't keep track of it or
whatever?

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):
I haven't seen that one.
I've seen the Samuel L Jacksondoing that.
Uh, go to bleep, go the bleepto sleep.
I won't say it Is that thatworks Wow.
Go the sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
Oh yeah, cause we don't cuss on this, do we?

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Oh, I feel like this one's been pretty PG, so I'll
keep it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Has it oh wow yeah, we're ushering in our new
audience, our new young audience.
Mm-hmm, family-friendlyTrombone Retreat Podcast Fund.
No more talk about light beers.
Just gather around the radiowith your cups of hot cocoa and

(01:42:21):
listen to us talk about theslide trombone on my phone.

Speaker 2 (01:42:22):
You know we don't talk about the slide trombone.
That much do we.
I mean it's kind of implied.

Speaker 1 (01:42:27):
It's like stories told through trombonists' eyes.
But you know, besides metalking about my mouthpiece
every five minutes, I mean we'repretty much we're telling life
stories, which is pretty coolbecause I have some very loyal
friends and loyal listeners thatdo not know anything about the
trombone and really likelistening, or they know a lot

(01:42:50):
about it now, but cool man.
Well, I hope you start feelingbetter.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
This has been relentless.
I've been sick and withallergies since Saturday, and
today is Wednesday, so I'm justsick and tired of being sick and
tired.
Let's put it that way.
It could be worse.
I could play the viola.

Speaker 1 (01:43:09):
Wow, just brought it back, brought it back to me.
Well, I'll keep it on brand forus.

Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
I'll keep it on brand .
It could be worse.
I could play the euphonium.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
You know one thing I could talk about, speaking of
which and terrible transition,but I actually got to go to
Lancelot Duke's memorial serviceand I first of all absolutely
beautiful service, as you wouldimagine.
Matthew Murchison played, who'sone of my favorite euphonium

(01:43:40):
players on the planet, one of myfavorite musicians on the
planet, the Pittsburgh SymphonyBrass played, which was gorgeous
.
Some of his ensembles fromCarnegie Mellon played some of
his music and there's a lot ofgreat speeches and, you know, in
true Lance fashion.
You know, first of all, it waspacked, this giant church just
packed, which was no surprise ofhow many people love him and

(01:44:03):
how many people traveled to seehim, and there's a lot of
laughter, a lot of tears and itreally hits you and I think
Lance would be okay with meobserving this I don't think
I've ever been in a room with somany euphonium and two players
in my life on a scale spectacleon a scale from one to axe, body

(01:44:25):
spray intensity, how bad wasthe smell?
oh my god you should have saidon a scale of one to pantomime,
because that's like the solothey always play oh, oh, I don't
even know that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
Why would I pay attention?

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
to that.
You know, I don't think theyget out much, so the smell is
okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
You know they weren't working up too much of a sweat,
because it's not like they'reworking.
You know what I mean.
No, you got them.

Speaker 1 (01:44:58):
No, it was some of the really sweet people.
Got to meet a lot of nicepeople Uh, david Cutler, who's
actually wrote that book, thesavvy musician who the book I'm
actually teaching out of my mymusic entrepreneurship class at
Cleveland Institute of Music hewas there and so I got to meet
him and tell him how I'mteaching out his book, which was
really cool, and he actuallyperformed and was absolutely

(01:45:20):
beautiful.
Um, I think it was a Tom Waitssong.
It was incredible.
Yeah, I mean it was just filledwith music and his daughter
spoke and just it just destroyedeveryone.
Just such a beautiful, beautifulspeech about, like you guys all
might know, my father as LanceLaDuke.
You know the teacher, thementor, the friend, and I just
want to talk about what lanceleduc was like as a father and

(01:45:44):
it was.
It was just a really beautiful,beautiful day that you know.
We need these moments to kindof snap us back into reality and
stop looking at our phones andbe grateful.
So I'm grateful for him andgrateful for the people I've met
through him and grateful forall the times he's spent at the
trombone Retreat and inspiringour students, and all we can do

(01:46:06):
is work hard to carry on thelegacy of what he would teach
and what we do, and I thinkabout him every day.
I'm teaching at ClevelandInstitute, which is I'm teaching
the same type of class that hewas teaching at Carnegie Mellon,
and so I'm yeah, I can onlyhope to aspire to do any modicum

(01:46:27):
of what he was able to do.
So, anyways, so that was mydowner, but we made fun of
euphonium, so it kind of worked.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
We got a couple of jabs in there, that's all that
matters.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
We should.
If you're a euphonium playerthat actually knows we're
kidding and listens to all ofour episodes, please send us a
message, Cause we'd love to talkto you.

Speaker 2 (01:46:48):
Yeah, we understand.
We understand euphonium as well.
You know the grunts and groansand I can play a B flat scale.

Speaker 1 (01:46:57):
Yeah, if you enjoyed the podcast, please consider
leaving us a rating or review onApple Podcasts or Spotify.
Follow us at Trombone Retreaton the Facegrams, instatweets
and YouBooks, as well as ourwebsite, tromboneretreatcom,
where you can join our mailinglist.
Also, feel free to shoot us anemail at tromboneretreat at
gmailcom, as we love hearingfrom you, unless you are a

(01:47:20):
Kenyan prince trying to wire us$8 million On Instagram.
Follow Nick at BassTrombone444and myself at JSVera on the
Instagrams.

Speaker 2 (01:47:32):
And, as always, if you're trying to fry up some
eggs and some lard and margarine.

Speaker 1 (01:47:41):
When you combine lard and margarine.
Can you call it Largerin,Largerin.

Speaker 2 (01:47:46):
Largerin.
When you're frying up some eggsand some Largerin make sure to
spread it evenly.
Give it a flip-a-doodle abouttwo minutes in.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
And serve to taste.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
Retreat yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
That got like too literal of a actual recipe.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
Well, Largerin A metaphor.
I don't think Largerin is goingto take off at any point in
time.

Speaker 1 (01:48:14):
I'm going to make a t-shirt for you that says
Largerin and Enchargerin.
Oh, I would wear that shirt Iknow you would With like a stick
picker, drawing of butter, withlike a face and like arms and
legs.

Speaker 2 (01:48:29):
Mm-hmm, maybe with like a pigtail to let you know
it's lard.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
But he's like in charge, so he's got like a
whistle.

Speaker 2 (01:48:37):
Or maybe a staff People that have a whistle A
staff maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:48:41):
Oh, like he's Moses, like he's a holy margarine.
Or like a drum major Return toyourself.

Speaker 4 (01:48:49):
I'm sorry, thank you.

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