February 14, 2023 • 30 mins
Our interview with the brilliant Ana Thomas.
Listen to her main episode first:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/15292960/applefortheteacher-mixdown
Subscribe to "Apple for the Teacher" today:
https://anchor.fm/applefortheteacherpod
Listen to her main episode first:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/15292960/applefortheteacher-mixdown
Subscribe to "Apple for the Teacher" today:
https://anchor.fm/applefortheteacherpod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to the True Crime podcast. I'm TZ your host. In today,
we have an interview with the creatorof Apple for the Teacher, Anna
Thomas. This interview is a littledifferent from the other ones we've done.
Anna was initially a little bit uncomfortablewith the idea of an interview, which
(00:21):
I understand it can be a littlebit intimidating to be on the spot,
But I really wanted you guys tohear from her because her show is excellent
and I wanted to give you allan insight to how she creates her episodes.
So after a little bit of discussion, we came to a compromise.
Anna agreed to answer the questions weusually pose to creators on the show if
(00:46):
I sent her a written list andthen she would record it and respond to
it on her own time. Soshe has graciously done that and sent me
the file. I apologize that it'staken me a little while to this,
but here is Anna Thomas, thecreator of Apple for the Teacher. Hello
(01:11):
everyone, my name is Anna Thomas, and I host the true crime podcast
Apple for the Teacher. T Zhas asked me to talk about my show,
but firstly, I'd like to saya huge thank you to TZ for
featuring an episode of my show onhis show, which is the episode that
you heard before this one called DarthVader. So my show tells true crime
(01:34):
stories associated with schools, although youwouldn't know it from the title Apple for
the Teacher. Not too much creativitywent into that title, but I'm a
teacher myself, so that's the firsttitle that popped into my head. And
the whole idea of starting a podcasthad been quite a spontaneous decision which really
(01:56):
hadn't been planned out. It wasmore like an experiment. I didn't expect
to do many episodes, firstly becauseI had no idea what I was doing.
And secondly, I figured that contentabout school crime would run out quickly.
I knew that I could cover schoolshootings, but I didn't think that
this one topic would give the showtoo much longevity. But boy was I
(02:19):
wrong. It's now been three yearsand almost two hundred episodes, and the
scope of the stories that I havefound has totally flawed me. But if
I had my time again, Iwould have called the show something like bad
Apple, Rotten Apple, or PoisonedApple, which covers the crime aspect of
the show. I think maybe peoplemay overlook my show because they assume Apple
(02:43):
for the Teacher is just an educationbased podcast. My decision to focus on
school crime really only came from thefact that I'm a teacher myself. I
teach primary school with a preference forGrade four, which is about nine year
olds, as they're not too youngor not too old. As a young
(03:05):
girl, people said that I wouldplay school, not doctor or nurses like
some kids do, and as theoldest sibling, I would read to my
younger brothers and when they were oldenough, I would set them little tests
like maths tests, and then markthem. When they came home from school,
I would ask them what they hadbeen learning, and I looked at
their homework, and then I setmy own little tests for them. So
(03:29):
it was my parents who suggested thatI become a teacher, and now after
thirty years, it's the only jobthat I've had. But I'm not sure
if that's a good thing or abad thing. Probably better to diversify and
have a range of skills, butthat's just how it turned out. So
you may be listening to me andwondering where my accent is from. As
(03:51):
I'm obviously not an American or Britishpodcaster. I live in Australia, but
a lot of people can't seem topick my accent as it's not a typical
Australian accent. Well, this iswhat people have said to me anyway,
And the reason for this is thatI wasn't actually born in Australia, but
I was born in Croatia and myfamily migrated here when I was about three
(04:15):
years old and I've lived here eversince. And even though my profession as
a teacher involves my voice and speaking, I really had issues in the early
days of the podcast with listening tomyself. Although this is apparently a very
common thing that people don't like thesound of their own voices. So I
(04:38):
was very surprised when my listeners gaveme feedback that they loved my voice,
saying it was soothing and easy tolisten to, as I never imagine that
about my voice. And when Ithink of a podcasting voice that is soothing
and easy to listen to, Ithink of mister t z Borden himself.
What a voice. He has avoice so perfect a podcas pasting, It's
(05:00):
just as smooth as silk I couldreally listen to him twenty four seven.
Anyway, as I said, theidea to start a podcast wasn't a very
serious one. I had been listeningto a number of podcasts and joined podcast
groups, and then I kept hearingthe same thing over that podcasting is not
hard, that you can do itwith just a computer. But I imagined
(05:24):
it was like a music recording studiowith a whole lot of switchboards and buttons,
and I thought you needed a lotof technical expertise. So I started
looking into it and somehow the crazyidea to try it myself. As most
of the podcasts that I had beenlistening to were true crime at the time,
I thought that would be a goodidea, But then I thought there
(05:46):
are so many true crime podcasts outthere, and I really wanted to do
something different. So then I thought, what is something that I know a
lot about? And the answer was, well, teaching. I'm a teacher.
Maybe I could do some type ofan educational podcast. But then I
had a look and there were somany of those out there, and besides,
(06:08):
talking about education really didn't appeal tome. But it was another true
crime podcast which ultimately gave me theidea. If you're into true crime,
you would probably be familiar with thevery well known podcast The Teacher's Pet.
It was hugely popular and centered arounda cold case of a woman who disappeared
(06:28):
almost thirty years ago. Her husbandwas a teacher at a high school and
he had an affair with a student. Now, while her body has never
been found, he was arrested andawaiting trial, although he was out on
bail, and as it was anAustralian case, it was all over the
media. So this is where Igot the idea of doing a true crime
(06:50):
podcast based on stories involving schools.And it's quite ironic that I'm talking about
The Teacher's Pet because as we speak, the teacher is on trial and a
follow up podcast is now out coveringthe trial. It's called The Teacher's Trial.
And interestingly, people have suggested thatI cover this man's case, but
(07:15):
I'm quite hesitant about covering such ahigh profile case. I mean, what
can I add to the story.There is so much out there on the
case, and it's so well known. I get much more satisfaction with covering
little known cases. So no,I don't have any plans to cover this
story. But you never know.So once I decided on true crime in
(07:36):
schools, there were two stories thatcame to mind immediately, which happened here
in Australia and one that was veryclose to me. But I wondered how
much crime was there associated with schools. I figured that there wasn't much,
and I also didn't want just tobe doing shootings anyway. I thought I
(07:57):
would just bite the bullet and startwith the two cases that I already knew
and go from there. I mightonly do five or ten episodes and that
was fine. So my first episodewas about a teacher in Australia named Stephanie
Scott. She was murdered at herschool during school holidays, and the story
really resonated with me because this issomething that I do every holiday going into
(08:22):
school preparing for the next term,and other teachers do it as well.
Stephanie was going on leave as shewas getting married, so she went into
her school on a weekend to organizeeverything for the teacher who would be taking
her place, and it was actuallyEaster Sunday and she was getting married the
following Saturday. But also at theschool that day was the school cleaner who
(08:46):
raped and murdered her only a weekfrom her wedding, and her story just
hit me so hard. This isme at school on weekends or holidays,
but I never for a moment worriedabout my safety just leaving the classroom door
unlocked, But of course, afterwhat happened to her, now I make
sure that my door is locked.And it also made me think differently about
(09:11):
the cleaners at my school, whichI know is a totally ridiculous thing,
but they have access to all areasof the school as they have keys to
every building, so I could exactlysee how her killer had been able to
get to her. So I wrotethe script for the episode and then prepared
the photos of Stephanie and the perpetratorto be posted on social media. And
(09:35):
that's when it hit me. Ijust hated having his photo next to hers.
I wanted people just to see herface, not the face of the
monster who took her life. SoI removed his photo and went one step
further and also took his name outof the episode, replacing it with pronouns
he, him, the man,etc. And since then I have never
(10:00):
named the perpetrators. As we know, some criminals revel in their notoriety,
and that's how the whole idea cameto be. So in my show,
you will not hear names or seethe photos of these depraved individuals, but
I want the spotlight to be shownon the victims. And in my podcast
(10:20):
group, I have the same policy. No photos of the criminals are posted.
And the second episode was also acase that happened close to where I
live. A high school boy namedDaniel Morecam disappeared and remained missing for about
ten years until his remains were finallyfound. His case had a huge profile
(10:41):
in my state as well as nationallyacross Australia due to the efforts of his
parents in the years that he wasmissing. His parents became child safety advocates
and even worked with the Education Departmentto develop child safety curriculum, which I
actually used in my classroom. Asit happened so close to me, I
(11:03):
was able to visit the location wherehe was abducted, which now has a
memorial to him. The man waseventually found and has been sent to prison
for life. So these were thefirst two cases that I covered, but
then after that I kept finding storyafter story. Ten episodes, then went
(11:24):
to twenty and now it's almost upto two hundred. I really have been
shocked at the stories that I found, and funny enough, I haven't covered
too many shootings, as the breadthof crime associated with schools sadly is very
broad. Right from the beginning,I kept notes on stories that I came
across that I would cover, andthe list just never ran out, so
(11:48):
I've never been stuck for a story. In fact, I can't cover the
cases quickly enough. So as atrue crime podcaster, the question that we
get asked a lot is where didour interest with true crime start? Well,
for me, it started with theO J case. That footage of
his truck is forever seered into mybrain. And the other one is the
(12:13):
Staircase, the story of Michael Petersonwhose wife was found dead at the bottom
of a staircase. That documentary wassimply enthralling and how is this? I
was reminded of this case again justrecently when the program sixty Minutes Here in
Australia had an interview with the manhimself, Michael Peterson. And many people
(12:37):
have debated the question about why thetrue crime genre is so popular, and
there were various theories put forth,but here is why I listened to true
crime. It's when you listen tocrime cases that you realize what a fortunate
life that you live. While Ido anyway, because crime is not something
that I have ever experienced. Idon't know any one who's been a victim
(13:01):
of crime. I only hear aboutpetty crime where I live, which is
just outside the city of Brisbane inAustralia, so it's only a small city
compared to Sydney and Melbourne. Butwe just don't have murders will very rarely.
Anyway, I feel totally safe whereI live, although yes, my
house is locked at night, soI guess murder stories are just so far
(13:24):
removed from my own personal experience.But what I find particularly disturbing are crimes
of passion. People who murder theirpartners, their spouses, or their children.
These are supposed to be the peoplein your life that you love.
In my life, I have neverhad anyone commit a crime or any person
that I didn't get along with.I've never had abusive relationships. I trust
(13:48):
everyone in my life explicitly, sowhen I hear these cases of what people
do to each other, it justboggles my mind that people like this exist.
I guess this is why I'm intotal disbelief about what people do to
other human beings. And as ateacher, how can anyone harm children?
(14:09):
It's just so heenous. So throughmy show, I want these people to
be remembered because all human lives shouldbe sacred. So I'm grateful for the
people in my life and where Ilive, and that's the reason why I
follow true crime. So the caseI decided to share here on t Z's
(14:30):
podcast was an episode called Darth Vader. When t Z asked me to choose
one of my episodes, it washard for me to pick one, but
I ultimately chose this one because tZ himself had a cameo in the episode.
But I also chose it because it'sunlike any other case that I've heard
of. The incident happened in Swedenwhere a man dressed up in a Darth
(14:52):
Vader costume and entered a school witha sword. He proceeded to attack and
killed teachers and a student. Itwas so bizarre because it was just before
Halloween and the school was having aHalloween party that afternoon, so people just
thought he was a student or ateacher dressed up. Some girls even posed
(15:13):
with him for a photo, notknowing that he had already killed someone with
the sword just minutes earlier. Thestory just resonated with me. I could
place myself in that scenario. I'min my classroom with my kids and there
is a killer roaming around outside theclassroom looking for victims. It was just
(15:35):
so chilling, and his motive wasalso very interesting. Sweden had a policy
of accepting high numbers of refugees andimmigrants, which was quite a divisive topic
in the country. The perpetrator hadnot been able to find employment, and
he blamed this on the immigrants whotook jobs that otherwise he thought should have
(15:56):
been his. The school was typicallytargeted because it had a very high number
of immigrant students, and he targetedethnic looking people while totally ignoring white Caucasians.
And I only found out about thestory from a listener living in Sweden
who suggested it to me, Andin fact, I have covered other great
(16:18):
stories just from listener suggestions. Butthe episode was quite challenging because there wasn't
a lot of information in English,but a lot in Swedish. But I
was able to get the help ofmy listener in Sweden who did a lot
of translating for me, and theSwedish names were also very challenging as well.
But it's amazing that you can findvideos online that help pronounce words in
(16:42):
any language. But I also findthat if I look for news videos on
the stories from other countries, youcan hear how the news presenters pronounce the
names so that I can pronounce themcorrectly. And I guess that I do
try to pronounce words from other languagesas best I can. When I reflect
(17:03):
on how far the podcast has come, it really astounds me because in the
beginning I didn't have a clue aboutwhat I was doing. Learning how to
do the audio was the biggest challenge. I had never used a microphone or
editing software, so it was ahuge learning curve and I made a lot
of mistakes. I remember that Ihad recorded the first six or so episodes,
(17:27):
but then I discovered a better wayto record the audio which made it
sound better. So I rerecorded allof those first episodes, believe it or
not. And then, after beingon social media and hearing other podcasters say
that they do their recordings in closetsfor better sound, I thought that this
was just a joke, but Itried it. So here I am in
(17:49):
my closet, and sure, nowif the audio actually is better, you
don't get that echoe sound. Andso then I went back and I re
recorded the episodes again. How crazyam I? I still only have a
very basic audio setup. I knowthat I could invest more money and get
more equipment, but this is goodenough for me. I'm not making a
(18:11):
professional career out of podcasting, soI'd rather focus on the storytelling. And
also the other challenge with the podcasthas been finding a quiet time to record
without those neighborhood noises such as dogsbarking, lawnmowers, chirping birds, kids
(18:32):
playing chainsaws, planes flying overhead,even chickens because I have chickens, as
do my neighbors. And actually Iwas about to record this today and the
chickens were going again, so Ihad to just stop and wait till they
did their thing. And it's reallyamazing how quiet the neighborhood is until you
press the record button and then allthe noises start. So some days I
(18:55):
just can't record at all and Ihave to give up. But my advice
to people who by thinking about doinga podcast is just give it a go.
If I can do it, thenanyone can. In this technological age,
most of us are very proficient withusing computers and smartphones, so really
recording audio and editing is really notthat hard. But you will certainly enjoy
(19:17):
doing it if the content that youproduce is a passion of yours. I
guess as a teacher, I've naturallybeen a storyteller, so this has transferred
into my podcasting. But I alsofind it a great medium for people who
are not necessarily extroverts, which mightseem like a contradiction putting yourself out there
in the world and thousands of peoplelistening to you. At my core,
(19:41):
I'm a very quiet and private person, but podcasting allows me to express myself
and have a voice that is totallywithin my control. And it's not intimidating
because it's not live. You candelete whatever you want. It's just a
different way to express your creativity.But I'd say if you want to do
it true crime podcast, really thinkabout presenting it in a different way.
(20:03):
Find your own niche, something thatsets you apart, and above all,
don't have any expectations of making alot of money. Just do it because
you genuinely enjoy it, and yes, the money might come later on.
After covering so many cases involving crimeassociated with schools, I've noticed that there
appears to be a pattern that hasevolved regarding why particular individuals decide to target
(20:30):
schools. It seems to be thatschools are chosen because perpetrators can inflict harm
on a large number of people,whether it be to promote a cause or
a gripe against the government. Sothey're looking to create a lot of attention,
and of course harm to children willgive them that attention. And the
(20:52):
other thing that I've noticed is thatmany perpetrators are hurting in some way,
maybe from their own childhoods or throughrelationship issues, and so hurting others seems
to be a way to get revengeor make themselves feel better. Of course,
this is not to say that anyof these reasons can condone their actions.
(21:14):
So if you've never listened to myshow, it doesn't only cover true
crime, but there are diverse storiesthat have nothing to do with crime or
schools. Sometimes I just find peoplewho have amazing stories, such as a
man who lived in an airport foreighteen years. Imagine that, and another
story of a Russian family who leftcivilization and went to live in an isolated
(21:38):
location in Siberia. Two children wereborn who knew nothing about the outside world.
One by one that the family membersdied until only one daughter is left
living. She is now almost eightyyears old and has been living by herself
for decades. So it's people likethat that I just find so fascinating.
(22:00):
Then there are other stories not involvingcrime, where there has been some type
of tragedy, such as a schoolthat was wiped out by a landslide,
killing hundreds of children, and anotherstory of a school group who when exploring
an underground cave and they drowned.And when it comes to students who commit
(22:22):
murder at their school, it wouldprobably be accepted that these students already had
a history of violence and may havebeen referred to as loners. However,
I have found that many of thesestudents had no previous history and that their
actions came totally out of the blue. They just appeared totally normal to everyone,
which just makes these crimes so scary. But my stories are not always
(22:47):
tragic. I also try to findwhat I call good apple stories, such
as a lady from Turkey who discoveredthat her principle had been molesting some female
students, exposed him and went onto become a child safety advocate and even
one an international award, going tothe US and having the award presented to
(23:11):
her by none other than Milannia Trump. So I also present these types of
inspiring stories as well as a podcaster. I'm asked well, what podcasts do
I listen to? I must say, since starting my own podcast, I
really don't have time to listen topodcasts too much these days. As I
(23:32):
used to. Podcasting really is verytime consuming, and when you have to
work as well, it becomes veryconsuming. But if you love it,
it's not a chore. I stilllisten to true crime predominantly, but more
and more I like stories about peoplewho have had extraordinary lives, such as
the two that I've already mentioned aboutthe man living in the airport and the
(23:52):
Russian lady. But I found Tz'spodcast Tapes from the Dark Side not that
long ago, and now it's atthe top of my favorites list. Luckily,
when I found it, there werestill heaps of episodes to binge,
but now I've caught up. Sothe wait for new episodes is just torture.
It's very clear that he strives toproduce a high quality show, and
(24:15):
his production standard is something that Ican only dream of for myself. His
voice is so calming and relaxing,and you know, I've heard people say
that they like to listen to podcastsat bedtime, but this was always a
mystery to me. Once I hitthat pillow, like that's it, I'm
out, I'm asleep. Even sometimesif I start listening to a podcast,
(24:36):
I'm bound to fall asleep. Butyou won't believe that Tz's show is the
first one that I've been able tolisten to a bedtime. It's just so
interesting that I just won't fall asleep. It just makes for a nice way
to end the day. I swearthat he should do meditation audio because I
would certainly listen to that. Andanother question that podcasters get asked is do
(24:57):
you have a favorite true crime story? Well, personally, I don't like
high profile cases such as people likeTed Bundy. His story has just been
done to death, and in fact, I don't even know much about him,
as I've never really been interested inpeople like these who just seem to
(25:18):
love their own notoriety, and thesame as with oj Simpson. As I've
already said, the Staircase documentary wasfascinating, but there is another one which
is so mysterious, and that's theDilatov Pass incident, where a group of
Russian hikers were found dead while ona trek during the winter, and their
(25:40):
bodies were found in various locations neartheir campsite. That story has been discussed
and there's all sorts of theories thathave been put forward about what happened,
but it's just so intriguing. It'snever been solved, so that one probably
really really comes to mind as justso fascinating. It's now been three years
(26:02):
since I started my show, andmy passion has not weighed in all of
that time. I really cannot believethat I'm still here. And when I
think about why this is, besidesthe fact that I love doing it,
I think it's the wonderful things thatpeople say about the show, such as,
thank you for telling us these people'sstories. These people need to be
(26:22):
remembered, and people also appreciate thatmy focus is on the victims and not
the perpetrators. And I'm also blownaway by some of the comments and that
reviews that people have made, andhere are just a few. One person
said her presentation might not be asslick as some, but she more than
makes up for it in content andempathy. And yes, I agree,
(26:45):
my show doesn't have a high productionlevel, but this is not what I'm
going for, so I was veryhappy to get that particular comment. And
here's another one. I can tellyou're a teacher and listening to it reminds
me of being a student class havinga teacher read me a story. Some
podcasts are more of a conversation.This is more like a story time for
(27:07):
adults. But then someone had theopposite view as follows interesting themes, but
I can't help feeling like I'm backin primary school listening to story time occupational
hazard. That was an interesting comment. So it just shows you that you
can't please everyone. And yes,I'm a teacher, so I guess telling
stories has come from my job,so I really can't change that style.
(27:33):
That's just how the show developed.So obviously some people like it, some
people don't. But if you don'twant to listen, you don't have to.
That's the thing about podcasting. Youcan just turn off and perhaps the
comment that I was most surprised aboutwas this one. This is the best
podcast I have ever come across.How are you getting me? And I
(27:55):
also love podcasting because I've met somany wonderful people. I've ever been a
social media person, and although weknow that there are many negatives with social
media, the people I have methave been fantastic. There are even a
couple of people who have shared theirpets with me, and I really enjoyed
(28:15):
seeing photos and videos of their pets, and as an animal lover myself,
I just love this aspect of beinga podcaster and getting to know people's pets.
And then then was very sad whentwo of these pets that I knew,
a dog and a cat, theypassed away, and I was just
as devastated as the people were themselves. I was just so sad I started
(28:37):
crying. So yeah, I've thoughtthe people that I've met have just been
wonderful. The podcasters and in thepodcasting community, everyone supports each other.
It's not like we're all in competitionto get podcasts listens, So that aspect
is one thing that I've been totallysurprised about. So thank you everyone for
(28:57):
listening. That's all I have tosay. I hope I didn't babble on
too much. If you'd like tolisten to my show, it's available wherever
you get your podcasts, as theysay, and you can also find it
on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. And again, i'd like to give
a huge thank you to t Zfor featuring my podcast on his show.
(29:18):
It does give you a real confidenceboost when another podcaster wants to feature my
show, So thank you t Z. It makes me really, really feel
good. That's all I have tosay for today, and I will end
this episode the way that I endmy own show by saying by for now,
and remember to be a good Applethank you for tuning in today,
(29:44):
And if you're new here, rememberto hit the subscribe or follow button in
Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listeningso you'll get an update when we post
our next episode. Scouring the internetfor the best true crime podcasts and then
bringing you interviews with the creators.I'm TZ, the host of Tapes from
(30:06):
the Dark Side, a true crimepodcast, and we'll be back soon with
more episodes.
Welcome back to the True Crime podcast. I'm TZ your host. In today,
we have an interview with the creatorof Apple for the Teacher, Anna
Thomas. This interview is a littledifferent from the other ones we've done.
Anna was initially a little bit uncomfortablewith the idea of an interview, which
(00:21):
I understand it can be a littlebit intimidating to be on the spot,
But I really wanted you guys tohear from her because her show is excellent
and I wanted to give you allan insight to how she creates her episodes.
So after a little bit of discussion, we came to a compromise.
Anna agreed to answer the questions weusually pose to creators on the show if
(00:46):
I sent her a written list andthen she would record it and respond to
it on her own time. Soshe has graciously done that and sent me
the file. I apologize that it'staken me a little while to this,
but here is Anna Thomas, thecreator of Apple for the Teacher. Hello
(01:11):
everyone, my name is Anna Thomas, and I host the true crime podcast
Apple for the Teacher. T Zhas asked me to talk about my show,
but firstly, I'd like to saya huge thank you to TZ for
featuring an episode of my show onhis show, which is the episode that
you heard before this one called DarthVader. So my show tells true crime
(01:34):
stories associated with schools, although youwouldn't know it from the title Apple for
the Teacher. Not too much creativitywent into that title, but I'm a
teacher myself, so that's the firsttitle that popped into my head. And
the whole idea of starting a podcasthad been quite a spontaneous decision which really
(01:56):
hadn't been planned out. It wasmore like an experiment. I didn't expect
to do many episodes, firstly becauseI had no idea what I was doing.
And secondly, I figured that contentabout school crime would run out quickly.
I knew that I could cover schoolshootings, but I didn't think that
this one topic would give the showtoo much longevity. But boy was I
(02:19):
wrong. It's now been three yearsand almost two hundred episodes, and the
scope of the stories that I havefound has totally flawed me. But if
I had my time again, Iwould have called the show something like bad
Apple, Rotten Apple, or PoisonedApple, which covers the crime aspect of
the show. I think maybe peoplemay overlook my show because they assume Apple
(02:43):
for the Teacher is just an educationbased podcast. My decision to focus on
school crime really only came from thefact that I'm a teacher myself. I
teach primary school with a preference forGrade four, which is about nine year
olds, as they're not too youngor not too old. As a young
(03:05):
girl, people said that I wouldplay school, not doctor or nurses like
some kids do, and as theoldest sibling, I would read to my
younger brothers and when they were oldenough, I would set them little tests
like maths tests, and then markthem. When they came home from school,
I would ask them what they hadbeen learning, and I looked at
their homework, and then I setmy own little tests for them. So
(03:29):
it was my parents who suggested thatI become a teacher, and now after
thirty years, it's the only jobthat I've had. But I'm not sure
if that's a good thing or abad thing. Probably better to diversify and
have a range of skills, butthat's just how it turned out. So
you may be listening to me andwondering where my accent is from. As
(03:51):
I'm obviously not an American or Britishpodcaster. I live in Australia, but
a lot of people can't seem topick my accent as it's not a typical
Australian accent. Well, this iswhat people have said to me anyway,
And the reason for this is thatI wasn't actually born in Australia, but
I was born in Croatia and myfamily migrated here when I was about three
(04:15):
years old and I've lived here eversince. And even though my profession as
a teacher involves my voice and speaking, I really had issues in the early
days of the podcast with listening tomyself. Although this is apparently a very
common thing that people don't like thesound of their own voices. So I
(04:38):
was very surprised when my listeners gaveme feedback that they loved my voice,
saying it was soothing and easy tolisten to, as I never imagine that
about my voice. And when Ithink of a podcasting voice that is soothing
and easy to listen to, Ithink of mister t z Borden himself.
What a voice. He has avoice so perfect a podcas pasting, It's
(05:00):
just as smooth as silk I couldreally listen to him twenty four seven.
Anyway, as I said, theidea to start a podcast wasn't a very
serious one. I had been listeningto a number of podcasts and joined podcast
groups, and then I kept hearingthe same thing over that podcasting is not
hard, that you can do itwith just a computer. But I imagined
(05:24):
it was like a music recording studiowith a whole lot of switchboards and buttons,
and I thought you needed a lotof technical expertise. So I started
looking into it and somehow the crazyidea to try it myself. As most
of the podcasts that I had beenlistening to were true crime at the time,
I thought that would be a goodidea, But then I thought there
(05:46):
are so many true crime podcasts outthere, and I really wanted to do
something different. So then I thought, what is something that I know a
lot about? And the answer was, well, teaching. I'm a teacher.
Maybe I could do some type ofan educational podcast. But then I
had a look and there were somany of those out there, and besides,
(06:08):
talking about education really didn't appeal tome. But it was another true
crime podcast which ultimately gave me theidea. If you're into true crime,
you would probably be familiar with thevery well known podcast The Teacher's Pet.
It was hugely popular and centered arounda cold case of a woman who disappeared
(06:28):
almost thirty years ago. Her husbandwas a teacher at a high school and
he had an affair with a student. Now, while her body has never
been found, he was arrested andawaiting trial, although he was out on
bail, and as it was anAustralian case, it was all over the
media. So this is where Igot the idea of doing a true crime
(06:50):
podcast based on stories involving schools.And it's quite ironic that I'm talking about
The Teacher's Pet because as we speak, the teacher is on trial and a
follow up podcast is now out coveringthe trial. It's called The Teacher's Trial.
And interestingly, people have suggested thatI cover this man's case, but
(07:15):
I'm quite hesitant about covering such ahigh profile case. I mean, what
can I add to the story.There is so much out there on the
case, and it's so well known. I get much more satisfaction with covering
little known cases. So no,I don't have any plans to cover this
story. But you never know.So once I decided on true crime in
(07:36):
schools, there were two stories thatcame to mind immediately, which happened here
in Australia and one that was veryclose to me. But I wondered how
much crime was there associated with schools. I figured that there wasn't much,
and I also didn't want just tobe doing shootings anyway. I thought I
(07:57):
would just bite the bullet and startwith the two cases that I already knew
and go from there. I mightonly do five or ten episodes and that
was fine. So my first episodewas about a teacher in Australia named Stephanie
Scott. She was murdered at herschool during school holidays, and the story
really resonated with me because this issomething that I do every holiday going into
(08:22):
school preparing for the next term,and other teachers do it as well.
Stephanie was going on leave as shewas getting married, so she went into
her school on a weekend to organizeeverything for the teacher who would be taking
her place, and it was actuallyEaster Sunday and she was getting married the
following Saturday. But also at theschool that day was the school cleaner who
(08:46):
raped and murdered her only a weekfrom her wedding, and her story just
hit me so hard. This isme at school on weekends or holidays,
but I never for a moment worriedabout my safety just leaving the classroom door
unlocked, But of course, afterwhat happened to her, now I make
sure that my door is locked.And it also made me think differently about
(09:11):
the cleaners at my school, whichI know is a totally ridiculous thing,
but they have access to all areasof the school as they have keys to
every building, so I could exactlysee how her killer had been able to
get to her. So I wrotethe script for the episode and then prepared
the photos of Stephanie and the perpetratorto be posted on social media. And
(09:35):
that's when it hit me. Ijust hated having his photo next to hers.
I wanted people just to see herface, not the face of the
monster who took her life. SoI removed his photo and went one step
further and also took his name outof the episode, replacing it with pronouns
he, him, the man,etc. And since then I have never
(10:00):
named the perpetrators. As we know, some criminals revel in their notoriety,
and that's how the whole idea cameto be. So in my show,
you will not hear names or seethe photos of these depraved individuals, but
I want the spotlight to be shownon the victims. And in my podcast
(10:20):
group, I have the same policy. No photos of the criminals are posted.
And the second episode was also acase that happened close to where I
live. A high school boy namedDaniel Morecam disappeared and remained missing for about
ten years until his remains were finallyfound. His case had a huge profile
(10:41):
in my state as well as nationallyacross Australia due to the efforts of his
parents in the years that he wasmissing. His parents became child safety advocates
and even worked with the Education Departmentto develop child safety curriculum, which I
actually used in my classroom. Asit happened so close to me, I
(11:03):
was able to visit the location wherehe was abducted, which now has a
memorial to him. The man waseventually found and has been sent to prison
for life. So these were thefirst two cases that I covered, but
then after that I kept finding storyafter story. Ten episodes, then went
(11:24):
to twenty and now it's almost upto two hundred. I really have been
shocked at the stories that I found, and funny enough, I haven't covered
too many shootings, as the breadthof crime associated with schools sadly is very
broad. Right from the beginning,I kept notes on stories that I came
across that I would cover, andthe list just never ran out, so
(11:48):
I've never been stuck for a story. In fact, I can't cover the
cases quickly enough. So as atrue crime podcaster, the question that we
get asked a lot is where didour interest with true crime start? Well,
for me, it started with theO J case. That footage of
his truck is forever seered into mybrain. And the other one is the
(12:13):
Staircase, the story of Michael Petersonwhose wife was found dead at the bottom
of a staircase. That documentary wassimply enthralling and how is this? I
was reminded of this case again justrecently when the program sixty Minutes Here in
Australia had an interview with the manhimself, Michael Peterson. And many people
(12:37):
have debated the question about why thetrue crime genre is so popular, and
there were various theories put forth,but here is why I listened to true
crime. It's when you listen tocrime cases that you realize what a fortunate
life that you live. While Ido anyway, because crime is not something
that I have ever experienced. Idon't know any one who's been a victim
(13:01):
of crime. I only hear aboutpetty crime where I live, which is
just outside the city of Brisbane inAustralia, so it's only a small city
compared to Sydney and Melbourne. Butwe just don't have murders will very rarely.
Anyway, I feel totally safe whereI live, although yes, my
house is locked at night, soI guess murder stories are just so far
(13:24):
removed from my own personal experience.But what I find particularly disturbing are crimes
of passion. People who murder theirpartners, their spouses, or their children.
These are supposed to be the peoplein your life that you love.
In my life, I have neverhad anyone commit a crime or any person
that I didn't get along with.I've never had abusive relationships. I trust
(13:48):
everyone in my life explicitly, sowhen I hear these cases of what people
do to each other, it justboggles my mind that people like this exist.
I guess this is why I'm intotal disbelief about what people do to
other human beings. And as ateacher, how can anyone harm children?
(14:09):
It's just so heenous. So throughmy show, I want these people to
be remembered because all human lives shouldbe sacred. So I'm grateful for the
people in my life and where Ilive, and that's the reason why I
follow true crime. So the caseI decided to share here on t Z's
(14:30):
podcast was an episode called Darth Vader. When t Z asked me to choose
one of my episodes, it washard for me to pick one, but
I ultimately chose this one because tZ himself had a cameo in the episode.
But I also chose it because it'sunlike any other case that I've heard
of. The incident happened in Swedenwhere a man dressed up in a Darth
(14:52):
Vader costume and entered a school witha sword. He proceeded to attack and
killed teachers and a student. Itwas so bizarre because it was just before
Halloween and the school was having aHalloween party that afternoon, so people just
thought he was a student or ateacher dressed up. Some girls even posed
(15:13):
with him for a photo, notknowing that he had already killed someone with
the sword just minutes earlier. Thestory just resonated with me. I could
place myself in that scenario. I'min my classroom with my kids and there
is a killer roaming around outside theclassroom looking for victims. It was just
(15:35):
so chilling, and his motive wasalso very interesting. Sweden had a policy
of accepting high numbers of refugees andimmigrants, which was quite a divisive topic
in the country. The perpetrator hadnot been able to find employment, and
he blamed this on the immigrants whotook jobs that otherwise he thought should have
(15:56):
been his. The school was typicallytargeted because it had a very high number
of immigrant students, and he targetedethnic looking people while totally ignoring white Caucasians.
And I only found out about thestory from a listener living in Sweden
who suggested it to me, Andin fact, I have covered other great
(16:18):
stories just from listener suggestions. Butthe episode was quite challenging because there wasn't
a lot of information in English,but a lot in Swedish. But I
was able to get the help ofmy listener in Sweden who did a lot
of translating for me, and theSwedish names were also very challenging as well.
But it's amazing that you can findvideos online that help pronounce words in
(16:42):
any language. But I also findthat if I look for news videos on
the stories from other countries, youcan hear how the news presenters pronounce the
names so that I can pronounce themcorrectly. And I guess that I do
try to pronounce words from other languagesas best I can. When I reflect
(17:03):
on how far the podcast has come, it really astounds me because in the
beginning I didn't have a clue aboutwhat I was doing. Learning how to
do the audio was the biggest challenge. I had never used a microphone or
editing software, so it was ahuge learning curve and I made a lot
of mistakes. I remember that Ihad recorded the first six or so episodes,
(17:27):
but then I discovered a better wayto record the audio which made it
sound better. So I rerecorded allof those first episodes, believe it or
not. And then, after beingon social media and hearing other podcasters say
that they do their recordings in closetsfor better sound, I thought that this
was just a joke, but Itried it. So here I am in
(17:49):
my closet, and sure, nowif the audio actually is better, you
don't get that echoe sound. Andso then I went back and I re
recorded the episodes again. How crazyam I? I still only have a
very basic audio setup. I knowthat I could invest more money and get
more equipment, but this is goodenough for me. I'm not making a
(18:11):
professional career out of podcasting, soI'd rather focus on the storytelling. And
also the other challenge with the podcasthas been finding a quiet time to record
without those neighborhood noises such as dogsbarking, lawnmowers, chirping birds, kids
(18:32):
playing chainsaws, planes flying overhead,even chickens because I have chickens, as
do my neighbors. And actually Iwas about to record this today and the
chickens were going again, so Ihad to just stop and wait till they
did their thing. And it's reallyamazing how quiet the neighborhood is until you
press the record button and then allthe noises start. So some days I
(18:55):
just can't record at all and Ihave to give up. But my advice
to people who by thinking about doinga podcast is just give it a go.
If I can do it, thenanyone can. In this technological age,
most of us are very proficient withusing computers and smartphones, so really
recording audio and editing is really notthat hard. But you will certainly enjoy
(19:17):
doing it if the content that youproduce is a passion of yours. I
guess as a teacher, I've naturallybeen a storyteller, so this has transferred
into my podcasting. But I alsofind it a great medium for people who
are not necessarily extroverts, which mightseem like a contradiction putting yourself out there
in the world and thousands of peoplelistening to you. At my core,
(19:41):
I'm a very quiet and private person, but podcasting allows me to express myself
and have a voice that is totallywithin my control. And it's not intimidating
because it's not live. You candelete whatever you want. It's just a
different way to express your creativity.But I'd say if you want to do
it true crime podcast, really thinkabout presenting it in a different way.
(20:03):
Find your own niche, something thatsets you apart, and above all,
don't have any expectations of making alot of money. Just do it because
you genuinely enjoy it, and yes, the money might come later on.
After covering so many cases involving crimeassociated with schools, I've noticed that there
appears to be a pattern that hasevolved regarding why particular individuals decide to target
(20:30):
schools. It seems to be thatschools are chosen because perpetrators can inflict harm
on a large number of people,whether it be to promote a cause or
a gripe against the government. Sothey're looking to create a lot of attention,
and of course harm to children willgive them that attention. And the
(20:52):
other thing that I've noticed is thatmany perpetrators are hurting in some way,
maybe from their own childhoods or throughrelationship issues, and so hurting others seems
to be a way to get revengeor make themselves feel better. Of course,
this is not to say that anyof these reasons can condone their actions.
(21:14):
So if you've never listened to myshow, it doesn't only cover true
crime, but there are diverse storiesthat have nothing to do with crime or
schools. Sometimes I just find peoplewho have amazing stories, such as a
man who lived in an airport foreighteen years. Imagine that, and another
story of a Russian family who leftcivilization and went to live in an isolated
(21:38):
location in Siberia. Two children wereborn who knew nothing about the outside world.
One by one that the family membersdied until only one daughter is left
living. She is now almost eightyyears old and has been living by herself
for decades. So it's people likethat that I just find so fascinating.
(22:00):
Then there are other stories not involvingcrime, where there has been some type
of tragedy, such as a schoolthat was wiped out by a landslide,
killing hundreds of children, and anotherstory of a school group who when exploring
an underground cave and they drowned.And when it comes to students who commit
(22:22):
murder at their school, it wouldprobably be accepted that these students already had
a history of violence and may havebeen referred to as loners. However,
I have found that many of thesestudents had no previous history and that their
actions came totally out of the blue. They just appeared totally normal to everyone,
which just makes these crimes so scary. But my stories are not always
(22:47):
tragic. I also try to findwhat I call good apple stories, such
as a lady from Turkey who discoveredthat her principle had been molesting some female
students, exposed him and went onto become a child safety advocate and even
one an international award, going tothe US and having the award presented to
(23:11):
her by none other than Milannia Trump. So I also present these types of
inspiring stories as well as a podcaster. I'm asked well, what podcasts do
I listen to? I must say, since starting my own podcast, I
really don't have time to listen topodcasts too much these days. As I
(23:32):
used to. Podcasting really is verytime consuming, and when you have to
work as well, it becomes veryconsuming. But if you love it,
it's not a chore. I stilllisten to true crime predominantly, but more
and more I like stories about peoplewho have had extraordinary lives, such as
the two that I've already mentioned aboutthe man living in the airport and the
(23:52):
Russian lady. But I found Tz'spodcast Tapes from the Dark Side not that
long ago, and now it's atthe top of my favorites list. Luckily,
when I found it, there werestill heaps of episodes to binge,
but now I've caught up. Sothe wait for new episodes is just torture.
It's very clear that he strives toproduce a high quality show, and
(24:15):
his production standard is something that Ican only dream of for myself. His
voice is so calming and relaxing,and you know, I've heard people say
that they like to listen to podcastsat bedtime, but this was always a
mystery to me. Once I hitthat pillow, like that's it, I'm
out, I'm asleep. Even sometimesif I start listening to a podcast,
(24:36):
I'm bound to fall asleep. Butyou won't believe that Tz's show is the
first one that I've been able tolisten to a bedtime. It's just so
interesting that I just won't fall asleep. It just makes for a nice way
to end the day. I swearthat he should do meditation audio because I
would certainly listen to that. Andanother question that podcasters get asked is do
(24:57):
you have a favorite true crime story? Well, personally, I don't like
high profile cases such as people likeTed Bundy. His story has just been
done to death, and in fact, I don't even know much about him,
as I've never really been interested inpeople like these who just seem to
(25:18):
love their own notoriety, and thesame as with oj Simpson. As I've
already said, the Staircase documentary wasfascinating, but there is another one which
is so mysterious, and that's theDilatov Pass incident, where a group of
Russian hikers were found dead while ona trek during the winter, and their
(25:40):
bodies were found in various locations neartheir campsite. That story has been discussed
and there's all sorts of theories thathave been put forward about what happened,
but it's just so intriguing. It'snever been solved, so that one probably
really really comes to mind as justso fascinating. It's now been three years
(26:02):
since I started my show, andmy passion has not weighed in all of
that time. I really cannot believethat I'm still here. And when I
think about why this is, besidesthe fact that I love doing it,
I think it's the wonderful things thatpeople say about the show, such as,
thank you for telling us these people'sstories. These people need to be
(26:22):
remembered, and people also appreciate thatmy focus is on the victims and not
the perpetrators. And I'm also blownaway by some of the comments and that
reviews that people have made, andhere are just a few. One person
said her presentation might not be asslick as some, but she more than
makes up for it in content andempathy. And yes, I agree,
(26:45):
my show doesn't have a high productionlevel, but this is not what I'm
going for, so I was veryhappy to get that particular comment. And
here's another one. I can tellyou're a teacher and listening to it reminds
me of being a student class havinga teacher read me a story. Some
podcasts are more of a conversation.This is more like a story time for
(27:07):
adults. But then someone had theopposite view as follows interesting themes, but
I can't help feeling like I'm backin primary school listening to story time occupational
hazard. That was an interesting comment. So it just shows you that you
can't please everyone. And yes,I'm a teacher, so I guess telling
stories has come from my job,so I really can't change that style.
(27:33):
That's just how the show developed.So obviously some people like it, some
people don't. But if you don'twant to listen, you don't have to.
That's the thing about podcasting. Youcan just turn off and perhaps the
comment that I was most surprised aboutwas this one. This is the best
podcast I have ever come across.How are you getting me? And I
(27:55):
also love podcasting because I've met somany wonderful people. I've ever been a
social media person, and although weknow that there are many negatives with social
media, the people I have methave been fantastic. There are even a
couple of people who have shared theirpets with me, and I really enjoyed
(28:15):
seeing photos and videos of their pets, and as an animal lover myself,
I just love this aspect of beinga podcaster and getting to know people's pets.
And then then was very sad whentwo of these pets that I knew,
a dog and a cat, theypassed away, and I was just
as devastated as the people were themselves. I was just so sad I started
(28:37):
crying. So yeah, I've thoughtthe people that I've met have just been
wonderful. The podcasters and in thepodcasting community, everyone supports each other.
It's not like we're all in competitionto get podcasts listens, So that aspect
is one thing that I've been totallysurprised about. So thank you everyone for
(28:57):
listening. That's all I have tosay. I hope I didn't babble on
too much. If you'd like tolisten to my show, it's available wherever
you get your podcasts, as theysay, and you can also find it
on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. And again, i'd like to give
a huge thank you to t Zfor featuring my podcast on his show.
(29:18):
It does give you a real confidenceboost when another podcaster wants to feature my
show, So thank you t Z. It makes me really, really feel
good. That's all I have tosay for today, and I will end
this episode the way that I endmy own show by saying by for now,
and remember to be a good Applethank you for tuning in today,
(29:44):
And if you're new here, rememberto hit the subscribe or follow button in
Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listeningso you'll get an update when we post
our next episode. Scouring the internetfor the best true crime podcasts and then
bringing you interviews with the creators.I'm TZ, the host of Tapes from
(30:06):
the Dark Side, a true crimepodcast, and we'll be back soon with
more episodes.
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