June 29, 2022 • 34 mins
Meet Paige Elmore. She's been obsessed with true crime since she was a kid, but really fell down the rabbit hole in 2018. That's when she found herself researching and reading about cases in her free time.
Then, in 2020, the obsession officially prevailed and she created a podcast of her own. Thus, "Reverie True Crime" was born.
Listen to the full episode to hear more about Paige's podcast...And don't forget to subscribe to Reverie True Crime today.
https://linktr.ee/paigeelmore
———
Also, check out the "FindKristen" podcast created by Dennis Mahon that was mentioned in this episode.
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/findkristen-dennis-mahon-DPSCcfb92oX/
https://www.findkristen.com/
Then, in 2020, the obsession officially prevailed and she created a podcast of her own. Thus, "Reverie True Crime" was born.
Listen to the full episode to hear more about Paige's podcast...And don't forget to subscribe to Reverie True Crime today.
https://linktr.ee/paigeelmore
———
Also, check out the "FindKristen" podcast created by Dennis Mahon that was mentioned in this episode.
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/findkristen-dennis-mahon-DPSCcfb92oX/
https://www.findkristen.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Welcome to the True Crime Podcast.My guest today is Page Elmore from the
show Reverie True Crime. Welcome tothe show. Page, Thanks for having
me. Yeah, absolutely, We'revery happy we were able to future your
episode on Kristen Deborah Mada Ferry,Mona Ferry. Yeah, fascinating episode.
(00:35):
And I just wanted before we getinto talking about that, I just wanted
to kind of ask you how yougot into true crime and how you started
your podcast, and I'll let youtake it from there. Well, it's
you know, it's so funny becauseI think a lot of people in the
(00:56):
community and you may be able torelate to it too. It's like when
we grew up always in the house, like I know, my dad would
watch Cops America's Most Wanted Emergency nineone one, and then my mom would
watch like Dateline, and we justalways had something going on. And I
(01:19):
always found like shows such as Inthe Heat of the Night and things like
that. I loved watching police showsor crime kind of shows, and so
I've always been kind of intrigued byit. And I remember probably when I
was towards the end of eighth gradeor so and just searching around on the
(01:44):
Internet looking up things I probably shouldn'thave. But then I came across like
the Charlie Manson and you know,searching crimes from there, and that's that's
really when I started kind of likejust fascinated with it, and not in
a not in a way that's like, oh, this is so gruesome,
(02:07):
like I like this kind of horrormovie type of way, but like why
would somebody do this? And howand like what's the thought processed behind all
of it? And so when Istarted listening to True Crime podcast, probably
in twenty eighteen or nineteen, Iwas really late to the game of listening.
(02:32):
So I started listening and I waslike, oh, I wish I
could do something like this. Itseems so easy, just you know,
just record yourself talking about something.And I figured out really quick that I
was wrong, because I started inJanuary of twenty twenty, and this was
(02:52):
before the pandemic really even hit.And then when it did, I was
like, well, everybody's at homenow they can listen more. And then
I started getting the listeners and Iwas like, oh, no, I
don't like this because I'm recording offof my phone. Like it's bad,
(03:14):
It's really bad. The audio ishorrible. My researching is horrible. It's
me and a pen and a pieceof paper just scribbling down crap from Wikipedia.
So I was like, oh no, and yeah. So then I
was like getting tips from people inthe community, and you know, they
were helping me with newspapers and likecase text and logictia and all these places
(03:40):
you can go and look up courttranscripts and trial trial stuff, and so
yeah, it's been a journey.It's been a journey. Yeah, I've
really enjoyed seeing your show grow.And I think all of us, you
know, I'm True Crime too,for anybody listening, So it's like our
craft evolves over time, and definitelyhave seen yours take on just go to
(04:11):
that next level. I feel likeyour show has really grown. It's really
cool to see. Well, thankyou. And I think now that I've
kind of gotten like where to goand where to research kind of down now
it's like I worry about if myaudio is okay because I'm constantly trying to
figure out new things with that andit's not as easy as as you would
(04:34):
think. Just listening you think,oh, that's nothing, but sitting in
front of either a phone or amicrophone and talking like, no, it's
a lot more than that. Now. I wanted to ask you too about
the name of your show, ReverieTrue Crime. It originally was for a
brief time, you had a differentname, right, all the things that
(04:59):
keep us up at night, that'sright. And I was like, this
is just too long. I don'tlike it. I just started not to
like the name of it. Andit was just so long. And I
noticed everybody had like shorter names ornames that were kind of catchier. And
actually I think it was Eileen fromCrime Laps. She was kind of helping
(05:23):
me figure out names, and shesaid Reverie and she sent me like this
little graphic that she made up ofthis woman with like a thought bubble over
her head, and she was like, it could be something like this.
And because the definition of Reverie istoday dream. But the whole concept is
(05:43):
though, if you have anxiety likeme and you start thinking about something,
it can totally change into something horrifyingand thinking about oh what if? But
what if this happens? Or whydoes this happen? And so it kind
of takes on a whole a wholenother meaning other than like a day dream.
(06:03):
But more like a nightmare. Soyeah, Aleen helped me with that,
and it was really cool. Yeah, I've always loved that name,
Reverie, because you're right, it'slike a it's like a nightmare, but
also like it has a it's likea little bit more obscure of a word
(06:24):
than just like nightmare. Yeah,very cool. So let's talk a little
bit about the episode we featured,which I found fascinating Kristen Motta Ferry who
went missing in nineteen ninety seven inSan Francisco, California, and she had
(06:46):
moved from Charlotte, North Carolina,which I thought was interesting because yeah,
and that's funny. I didn't evenmake that connection. Yeah, I spent
a decade living in Charlotte. SoI was like, wait a second,
I knew Wolfman Pizza. You talkedabout Saint Matthews. I think you said
the church she went to, possiblyand which I believe. I've into that
(07:09):
church a number of times where Iwas just like, wow, this is
a bizarre and so do you wantto is this kind of a tough one,
But so I'll give you know,just peeking there. I'll give just
like a very brief understanding of whatI know is that she moved to California
(07:33):
and got a job there. Thiswas after college, and then she just
kind of disappeared off the face ofthe earth. And the thing I found
really fascinating, there's a number ofthreads in this case. But this guy,
Dennis Mayhon. Mayhon was from Charlottetoo, and he just kind of
(07:57):
fell into an obsession with this case. Oh yeah, you know, it
almost sounds a little bit on healthyborderline, But you also have to commend
the guy for his dedication. Butthis guy drove from California, or from
Charlotte to California and basically lived therefor years trying to find this woman.
Is that kind of how you understandit? Yes? And what is so
(08:20):
crazy though? I think if Ihad the money to do that, and
say I started really digging into acase that was you know, active right
now and someone's missing and like weall do, we all want to find
out, like what's going on?If I had the money and could drive
(08:41):
somewhere and just stay there and tryto figure it out, Like I totally
get that, but I understand alsolike it's not the healthiest probably, that's
for sure, But I can understandthat kind of wanting to figure it out
(09:01):
because this one, it does havea lot of threads in it that you
could follow any of them. Youcould follow so many different rabbit holes in
this one, and there's a lotthat There's two things that I think probably
(09:24):
happened. But you know, soshe went to California to be um to
take a photography class, and soshe was always out and about in San
Francisco taking pictures, and I knowshe would walk home late some nights,
(09:46):
and you know, there's there's apossibility that the house that they were living
beside was like kind of a halfwayhouse kind of situation, but I think
it was for people who were likein and out of jail or something.
(10:07):
I can't really remember, but itwas as it was a situation like that,
and she didn't know that that iswhat that house was. Her parents
didn't find out till a way later, And that is kind of sketchy that
maybe something could have happened like rightthere at you know, right beside her
(10:28):
home. But you've also got somany other things like when the dogs,
when the police took the dogs andthey were sniffing to on her trail and
kind of went to a dead endwhere the water was. That made my
(10:48):
heart sink, and I was like, man, you know, because some
people think that she could have fallenover and just the tide just washed her
away and she just couldn't, youknow, she couldn't swim up or anything,
and it just took her by surprise. But usually that place has a
(11:09):
lot of tourists, so that mightnot be the the one that I really
believe the most, even you know, even though there is a possibility,
anything's possible, but they say thatthat's really usually a crowded place. So
(11:30):
I think the most compelling thing tome is the sketchy guy that she worked
with his um I don't remember ifit was his girlfriend, and then they
kind of had a connection with thisother guy she knew. And later on
this girl told her uncle that shehelped in a murder and kidnap kind of
(11:56):
situation, and she kind of justlaid it all out there, and that
just it seems like that's possibly whatcould have happened. Before we jump into
that too, I want to justso I got this wrong. I thought
she moved out there after college,but she had only been in college one
(12:18):
year and then went out there forlike you said, for the photography class
in between her freshman and sophomore years. So she was only I didn't know
that she was only eighteen, soshe was very young. She was super
young. And she wanted to goback to North Carolina, and I know
she wanted to study again. It'sweird the things that I do retain from
(12:41):
these episodes and things that I kindof forget once it's completed and done.
But yeah, I remember she didwant to go back, and yeah,
she had planned to finish her degreeand yeah, and this was just like
a summer class. Yeah, shewanted to go out there and have fun
for the summer and you know,explore. And that's just so it's so
(13:05):
tragic because that's what all you know, even even people my age, we
just want to go We just wantto go out and we want to go
visit somewhere new and explore and learnnew things. And it's just dangerous to
do anything. Yeah. Yeah,And this is going back to which she
said the acquaintance she met that waskind of the second biggest possibility for her
(13:33):
disappearance. So she was working ata place called Spinelli's Coffee and that's where
she met some of these characters.Is that kind of how you Yeah,
yeah, I think that's you know, I think that's where she mostly knew
anyone was either from that coffee shop. I know she worked at one little
(13:54):
other spot, but that and possiblyschool. I mean, she didn't know
many people, you know, Iknow, she lived with some guys and
it you could look at that assketchy, but they said that sometimes she
didn't come home, and that shewould stay at a girlfriend's house or something,
(14:16):
or you know, they didn't evenask. They just thought that maybe
she had a boyfriend. Like theyweren't close, they just shared this place
while they went to school. Sothe cops did roll them out pretty quickly.
And I really don't think that thoseguys had anything to do with it.
But are you talking about her roommates. Yeah, yeah, it didn't
(14:39):
seem like there was any evidence pointingto them. The closest thing as far
as where she was home was whatyou were saying with the house right next
store, which was you know,this being Oakland, California, it was
like, you know, five feetaway was this halfway house where they had
people on probation living there, somesketchy people, and it was strange that
(15:05):
house. Reading back on the historyof that house, like, yeah,
at one time people were making meththere, it was a pit bull fighting
house. One time, it wasinfested by roaches at one time. It
was like, oh yeah, Idon't know if you if you are looking
at it, or if you haveseen it, but we'll be right back
(15:30):
after this commercial break. Oh yeah, I don't know if you if you
are looking at it or if youhave seen it. But there is a
big complaint that I had actually savedat the time when I was writing this.
This lady had written I don't knowif she wrote the city, but
(15:52):
it was like a mile long thingof a complaint about this place and all
the things it had been and itwas now and how it was just ruining
that street. And yeah. AndKristen didn't know anything about that house,
and her parents surely didn't because Idon't think they would have let her go
(16:12):
at all, because they didn't theyweren't really wanting her to go in the
first place. But she was superpassionate about it, and they were like,
you know, if you call usall the time and you you know,
keep in touch, we can doit. And she agreed to that,
and I don't think she would havestayed by a place like that at
(16:34):
all if she would have known.Just so it is a possibility that maybe
somebody shady from that place did somethingon her walk home. And now so
she's working at the mall at thiscoffee shop. Is that right? This
coffee shop was in the Yeah,So she gets off and then on was
(17:00):
this the day she went missing?There was a video of her walking around
with a blondhaired woman. Yeah.Yeah, So it was like CCTV footage
and and they for years have triedto figure out who this woman was.
They don't know if this was connectedto the disappearance, but to this day
(17:22):
that has been a hanging kind ofpiece of the puzzle. That is so
frustrating to me because you don't knowif that woman is there as kind of
bait to you know, bring heras the victim into a you know,
a sex trafficking thing or something awful. You know, you just don't know.
(17:48):
And I can just imagine if Iwere a parent and I saw my
daughter and she's walking around with thiswoman, and we're begging and begging her
to come forward, and she doesn'tlike there is there I don't know,
like why wouldn't you come forward unlessyou know something or unless you've done something
wrong. So that part really doesit haunts me because I'm like, why
(18:15):
wouldn't she come forward? Though?Right if that just was very strange,
like unless it could be a caseof like just not wanting to get involved,
But even so, it just wouldbe nice to be able to um
explain who she was. And there'sone theory about a newspaper article right where
(18:41):
there was this up they found inher house and it had a thing,
yeah, yeah, it was inthe trash can, and they felt like
it was either something Kristen had wroteor because she was trying to find some
friends. So it was like therewas an ad in the paper where she
(19:02):
was looking for friends to like goout on the town with and take pictures
and just introduce, you know,her to more of San Francisco. And
you know, they don't know ifthis woman answered her ad or if Kristin
may have answered this ad and theyknew each other that way. They just
(19:25):
it is just so mind boggling tome. But like you said, there
are some people who just don't wantto get involved, even if they are
innocent. They just don't want allof that attention. They don't want just
you know, cops hounding them orwhatever it is. And you know,
(19:45):
it's still frustrating though, because ifshe has nothing to do with it,
I would also like at least callthem in private and say, hey,
you know that that person was me. You know, we were just hanging
out. I don't know what happenedwhen she left, because you know,
I think the CCTV footage did showthat she left them all by herself.
(20:11):
UM, but I don't know.That's just that's just one of the things
about this episode of many that thatdefinitely bothered me. And then one last
thread was Matthew Lucky Luke luque lu q u E. Yeah, I
(20:34):
think I think I called him Luke, which might be wrong. Yeah,
I couldn't figure out how to saythat. But Matthew Luke, which Matthew
um was one of their Um washe one of the co workers or they
had introduced him. So there wasa guy that was a co worker,
(20:55):
and I don't remember, I thinkit was Matthew Luke, but there were
two guys. One worked at thecoffee shop at the same time as Kristen.
And then quit or no longer workedthere after her disappearance, and then
the other guy was still there.And so when the man from North Carolina
(21:17):
went to the coffee shop, hewas like, hey, I want to
talk to this guy, and theywere like, well, he's not here,
but we can give you the number. Okay, okay, they wanted
to talk to Kelly, and theysaid, call Matthew to get a hold
of Kelly. It's kind of convoluted, but is that Yeah, yeah,
(21:37):
that sounds right. I knew itwas confusing when I was looking it up,
so I couldn't really remember who's who. But yeah, it's crazy how
these characters kind of intertwine in there. But yeah, a lot of names.
This is one that's easy to getlost in the names, for sure.
So Dennis, the guy who movedto California to try to research this
(22:03):
case, he calls Matthew, who'ssupposed to get him in touch with Kelly,
and Matthew like freaks out, andso this is like one of the
strange, one of the many otherstrange things. And Matthew just said,
look, I've got nothing to dowith it, and he hung up the
phone. And so now they're like, well, what was that about.
(22:26):
You know why? Because he's becauseDennis said he barely got her name out
of his mouth before this guy juststarted screaming at him, and that's like
red flag, right. So that'sthat. Now we've got this Matthew Luke
guy who is also just another redherring. Which do you know if they
(22:48):
ever got ahold of Kelly who wasthe guy Kelly Stratham? Um, I
don't remember. So he was likehe was another employee that they were going
to Matthew to trying to find him. So yeah, kind of one of
those other loose ends. So whatdo you think. I know, you
(23:11):
gave your two leading, but ifyou had to go with your gut,
like, is there one way yourgut's pulling you in this case that you
think is the most likely? Yeah, I think it's I just think the
most probably heartbreaking outcome, and whatis most likely, since people usually do
(23:32):
know their attackers, is that shethought that she was friends with these people
that she worked with, and thatgirl that was dating one of those guys
at the time. She called hergrandfather or her uncle and she spent hours
(23:53):
on the phone with him and shewas like, hey, I was involved
in a kidnapping and a murder,and it was all written out and wait,
let me go back. So asshe was telling him everything, he
just started getting out a pen anda piece of paper and he started writing
(24:17):
everything she was saying down and hethen got in touch with somebody, and
you know, it all came outthat she had said this. But I
don't understand why it never was lookedinto, like I feel that it should
have been. Was that Jill Lampo? Yes, yes, yes, yes,
(24:41):
yeah, that's right. That wasanother Yeah, just another very strange
but it does sound weird that youwould confess to something like that unless you
had something to do with it.Yeah, but that was years later,
right, that was like twenty twelvein this murder. This disappearance was in
nineteen ninety eight. But yeah,it seems strange that I wish we could
(25:10):
like talk to the police and belike, did you ever talk to Jill?
Like what happened? Yeah, Likewhat's going on with that Jill Lampo?
Because I think they did go toher house one time because I think
she was dating one of Kristen's x'sor something. I don't Oh my gosh,
(25:33):
I wish I could remember all thedetails, but I do remember somebody
had a diary back the end whenit happened. When the police searched,
they wanted to know why those dateswere ripped out because those were the days
leading up to Kristen's disappearance and theday that she went missing. These pages
(25:55):
were ripped out. They wanted toknow why, and it was one excuse
after the other, and it's justit's so frustrating. I think missing persons
cases that are never solved or areunsolved for such a long time are just
the most frustrating cases. For sure. Yeah, very tragic. I just
(26:18):
want to have that closure, evenif it was something horrific that happened.
And then let me ask you,how did you come across this case?
I think I was just looking upmissing persons cases because I wanted to,
do, you know, a missingperson's case, and I hadn't done one
(26:41):
in a while, And when Icame across I came across quite a few
stories, of course, but itwas hers just drew me in. And
it's when you get one of thosefeelings like like your name is just being
called to that specific story and Iwas like, wow, like I know
(27:02):
her name and I know for surethat people have covered this, but I
had never really dove into her,into her situation, or listen to any
episodes about her, and so Iwas like, I've got to do this.
This one is just speaking to melike it's kind of like, um,
(27:22):
the Alisa Lamb case. Um,it's just one of those ones that
when you get sucked in by it, you just you can't help it.
You want to know what happened,and you feel like someone knows something,
they're just not talking like the podcast, you know someone knows something. Yes,
(27:44):
yes, yeah, but that isthe That is the kind of what
we're searching for because it, likeyou said, I think it m ninety
six percent plus of a crime issomebody related to the person. Yeah,
yeah, it's it's some percentage whereit's like likely women know their attackers,
(28:10):
and it's really a low it's it'sa super low percentage really of women who
don't know their attackers and it's completelyrandom. So when I when I was
reading up on that, I waslike, wow, you know, you
always think it's going to be froma stranger or walking through a dark parking
lot and a stranger is going toget you or something. But it's more
(28:34):
scary to think it could be someoneclose to you, and it just gives
me chill bumps. But yeah,ninety six point four percent. And that's
what kind of got this Dennis Mayhonguy from Charlotte who moved there. That's
what he said too, you knowthat he found it was about fifty people
(28:59):
math that knew her since she wasnew to California. So he's like,
well, I'll just talk to allfifty people. I'll make notes and like
I'll have this thing solved. It'slike pretty sad, but yeah, as
anybody who is familiar with crime andthe tragedy of true crime is like,
there's so many cases of unsolved mysterieslike the show, and yes, somebody
(29:25):
knows something. I mean, Ido think you're right. And this guy,
um, Dennis Mahon, I thinkthere's probably there probably is somebody out
there in this case, like withso many others that could provide the missing
clue for sure for whatever reason,whether it's guilts or fear or something's holding
(29:49):
them back. But m yeah,and occasionally a podcast does. I mean,
that's the cool thing about podcasts thesedays. It's more more times doesn't
happen. But occasionally there is thatperson who comes forward with them missing.
Yeah, and that's another thing too, you know. But I found so
(30:12):
interesting when I started listening to Truecrime. As you know, they would
always put the numbers out there,and they would always, you know,
say call this number, call thisnumber. And I always thought, well,
you know, that is so sohelpful. And if nobody had heard
of the case before and they justhappened somehow to hear your episode and they
(30:33):
remember something that's huge and they're like, wow, I didn't know that this,
you know, was a thing,but I do remember this from back
the end when this happened, andyou know, maybe they'll call the police
with a tip that somehow they didn'tthink about. It's just one of those
(30:55):
things where you can only hope.Yeah. Absolutely so. Um, I'll
throw out two I think. Uhso, this website find Kristen k r
I st e N is the onethat Dennis Mayhon, the Charlotte, North
(31:15):
Carolina guy started. It's still uphere. It has a bunch of information.
Yeah, he's done a great job. He's still actively researching. He's
got a he has a podcast ofhis own. Right, Um, I
think so, but I wrong Christen'spodcast. Let me see if that comes
(31:36):
up. If it's still, Oh, I'd like to know Christen's podcast.
Um, so there is one calledChristen's podcast, but that's not it.
So yeah, if we find that, I'll put it in the episode.
That would be super interesting because Iwould I would like to listen to that.
(31:57):
Yeah. I don't know if it'sstill because his website is interesting enough,
but to actually hear him talk aboutit, I would love that.
Yeah, and I think this guy, at least from his website, it
sounds like he's still like he hasa full time job, but he's working
part time still on this case.As the last update was, I just
(32:25):
had it pulled up March twenty nine, twenty twenty two, so wow,
he had another anonymous tip. Soyeah, I would recommend if you're hearing
this and you haven't listened to pagespodcast, go back in our feed,
check out the episode about Kristen ModaFerry keep messing that up, and go
(32:52):
check out Reverie True Crime. Gogive her a subscribe, rate her podcast
five stars, And um, yeah, is there anything else you wanted to
plug about your show or anything elseyou wanted to say? I think I
think I'm I'm good. Um.Now Monday, I do have an interview
(33:16):
with Tera Newell, who took downDirty John. That'll be up next week
sometime. And right now I'm workingon domestic violence against men cases. So
that's pretty much it right now.Very cool. Yeah. Um, if
you like Page's work, also subscribeto or Patreon. I think it's uh
(33:39):
patreon dot com, slash reverie,revery true crime yea every true crime.
Uh yeah, thanks so much forum coming on Page. It was a
pleasure. Thank you, Take care, Bye bye
Welcome to the True Crime Podcast.My guest today is Page Elmore from the
show Reverie True Crime. Welcome tothe show. Page, Thanks for having
me. Yeah, absolutely, We'revery happy we were able to future your
episode on Kristen Deborah Mada Ferry,Mona Ferry. Yeah, fascinating episode.
(00:35):
And I just wanted before we getinto talking about that, I just wanted
to kind of ask you how yougot into true crime and how you started
your podcast, and I'll let youtake it from there. Well, it's
you know, it's so funny becauseI think a lot of people in the
(00:56):
community and you may be able torelate to it too. It's like when
we grew up always in the house, like I know, my dad would
watch Cops America's Most Wanted Emergency nineone one, and then my mom would
watch like Dateline, and we justalways had something going on. And I
(01:19):
always found like shows such as Inthe Heat of the Night and things like
that. I loved watching police showsor crime kind of shows, and so
I've always been kind of intrigued byit. And I remember probably when I
was towards the end of eighth gradeor so and just searching around on the
(01:44):
Internet looking up things I probably shouldn'thave. But then I came across like
the Charlie Manson and you know,searching crimes from there, and that's that's
really when I started kind of likejust fascinated with it, and not in
a not in a way that's like, oh, this is so gruesome,
(02:07):
like I like this kind of horrormovie type of way, but like why
would somebody do this? And howand like what's the thought processed behind all
of it? And so when Istarted listening to True Crime podcast, probably
in twenty eighteen or nineteen, Iwas really late to the game of listening.
(02:32):
So I started listening and I waslike, oh, I wish I
could do something like this. Itseems so easy, just you know,
just record yourself talking about something.And I figured out really quick that I
was wrong, because I started inJanuary of twenty twenty, and this was
(02:52):
before the pandemic really even hit.And then when it did, I was
like, well, everybody's at homenow they can listen more. And then
I started getting the listeners and Iwas like, oh, no, I
don't like this because I'm recording offof my phone. Like it's bad,
(03:14):
It's really bad. The audio ishorrible. My researching is horrible. It's
me and a pen and a pieceof paper just scribbling down crap from Wikipedia.
So I was like, oh no, and yeah. So then I
was like getting tips from people inthe community, and you know, they
were helping me with newspapers and likecase text and logictia and all these places
(03:40):
you can go and look up courttranscripts and trial trial stuff, and so
yeah, it's been a journey.It's been a journey. Yeah, I've
really enjoyed seeing your show grow.And I think all of us, you
know, I'm True Crime too,for anybody listening, So it's like our
craft evolves over time, and definitelyhave seen yours take on just go to
(04:11):
that next level. I feel likeyour show has really grown. It's really
cool to see. Well, thankyou. And I think now that I've
kind of gotten like where to goand where to research kind of down now
it's like I worry about if myaudio is okay because I'm constantly trying to
figure out new things with that andit's not as easy as as you would
(04:34):
think. Just listening you think,oh, that's nothing, but sitting in
front of either a phone or amicrophone and talking like, no, it's
a lot more than that. Now. I wanted to ask you too about
the name of your show, ReverieTrue Crime. It originally was for a
brief time, you had a differentname, right, all the things that
(04:59):
keep us up at night, that'sright. And I was like, this
is just too long. I don'tlike it. I just started not to
like the name of it. Andit was just so long. And I
noticed everybody had like shorter names ornames that were kind of catchier. And
actually I think it was Eileen fromCrime Laps. She was kind of helping
(05:23):
me figure out names, and shesaid Reverie and she sent me like this
little graphic that she made up ofthis woman with like a thought bubble over
her head, and she was like, it could be something like this.
And because the definition of Reverie istoday dream. But the whole concept is
(05:43):
though, if you have anxiety likeme and you start thinking about something,
it can totally change into something horrifyingand thinking about oh what if? But
what if this happens? Or whydoes this happen? And so it kind
of takes on a whole a wholenother meaning other than like a day dream.
(06:03):
But more like a nightmare. Soyeah, Aleen helped me with that,
and it was really cool. Yeah, I've always loved that name,
Reverie, because you're right, it'slike a it's like a nightmare, but
also like it has a it's likea little bit more obscure of a word
(06:24):
than just like nightmare. Yeah,very cool. So let's talk a little
bit about the episode we featured,which I found fascinating Kristen Motta Ferry who
went missing in nineteen ninety seven inSan Francisco, California, and she had
(06:46):
moved from Charlotte, North Carolina,which I thought was interesting because yeah,
and that's funny. I didn't evenmake that connection. Yeah, I spent
a decade living in Charlotte. SoI was like, wait a second,
I knew Wolfman Pizza. You talkedabout Saint Matthews. I think you said
the church she went to, possiblyand which I believe. I've into that
(07:09):
church a number of times where Iwas just like, wow, this is
a bizarre and so do you wantto is this kind of a tough one,
But so I'll give you know,just peeking there. I'll give just
like a very brief understanding of whatI know is that she moved to California
(07:33):
and got a job there. Thiswas after college, and then she just
kind of disappeared off the face ofthe earth. And the thing I found
really fascinating, there's a number ofthreads in this case. But this guy,
Dennis Mayhon. Mayhon was from Charlottetoo, and he just kind of
(07:57):
fell into an obsession with this case. Oh yeah, you know, it
almost sounds a little bit on healthyborderline, But you also have to commend
the guy for his dedication. Butthis guy drove from California, or from
Charlotte to California and basically lived therefor years trying to find this woman.
Is that kind of how you understandit? Yes? And what is so
(08:20):
crazy though? I think if Ihad the money to do that, and
say I started really digging into acase that was you know, active right
now and someone's missing and like weall do, we all want to find
out, like what's going on?If I had the money and could drive
(08:41):
somewhere and just stay there and tryto figure it out, Like I totally
get that, but I understand alsolike it's not the healthiest probably, that's
for sure, But I can understandthat kind of wanting to figure it out
(09:01):
because this one, it does havea lot of threads in it that you
could follow any of them. Youcould follow so many different rabbit holes in
this one, and there's a lotthat There's two things that I think probably
(09:24):
happened. But you know, soshe went to California to be um to
take a photography class, and soshe was always out and about in San
Francisco taking pictures, and I knowshe would walk home late some nights,
(09:46):
and you know, there's there's apossibility that the house that they were living
beside was like kind of a halfwayhouse kind of situation, but I think
it was for people who were likein and out of jail or something.
(10:07):
I can't really remember, but itwas as it was a situation like that,
and she didn't know that that iswhat that house was. Her parents
didn't find out till a way later, And that is kind of sketchy that
maybe something could have happened like rightthere at you know, right beside her
(10:28):
home. But you've also got somany other things like when the dogs,
when the police took the dogs andthey were sniffing to on her trail and
kind of went to a dead endwhere the water was. That made my
(10:48):
heart sink, and I was like, man, you know, because some
people think that she could have fallenover and just the tide just washed her
away and she just couldn't, youknow, she couldn't swim up or anything,
and it just took her by surprise. But usually that place has a
(11:09):
lot of tourists, so that mightnot be the the one that I really
believe the most, even you know, even though there is a possibility,
anything's possible, but they say thatthat's really usually a crowded place. So
(11:30):
I think the most compelling thing tome is the sketchy guy that she worked
with his um I don't remember ifit was his girlfriend, and then they
kind of had a connection with thisother guy she knew. And later on
this girl told her uncle that shehelped in a murder and kidnap kind of
(11:56):
situation, and she kind of justlaid it all out there, and that
just it seems like that's possibly whatcould have happened. Before we jump into
that too, I want to justso I got this wrong. I thought
she moved out there after college,but she had only been in college one
(12:18):
year and then went out there forlike you said, for the photography class
in between her freshman and sophomore years. So she was only I didn't know
that she was only eighteen, soshe was very young. She was super
young. And she wanted to goback to North Carolina, and I know
she wanted to study again. It'sweird the things that I do retain from
(12:41):
these episodes and things that I kindof forget once it's completed and done.
But yeah, I remember she didwant to go back, and yeah,
she had planned to finish her degreeand yeah, and this was just like
a summer class. Yeah, shewanted to go out there and have fun
for the summer and you know,explore. And that's just so it's so
(13:05):
tragic because that's what all you know, even even people my age, we
just want to go We just wantto go out and we want to go
visit somewhere new and explore and learnnew things. And it's just dangerous to
do anything. Yeah. Yeah,And this is going back to which she
said the acquaintance she met that waskind of the second biggest possibility for her
(13:33):
disappearance. So she was working ata place called Spinelli's Coffee and that's where
she met some of these characters.Is that kind of how you Yeah,
yeah, I think that's you know, I think that's where she mostly knew
anyone was either from that coffee shop. I know she worked at one little
(13:54):
other spot, but that and possiblyschool. I mean, she didn't know
many people, you know, Iknow, she lived with some guys and
it you could look at that assketchy, but they said that sometimes she
didn't come home, and that shewould stay at a girlfriend's house or something,
(14:16):
or you know, they didn't evenask. They just thought that maybe
she had a boyfriend. Like theyweren't close, they just shared this place
while they went to school. Sothe cops did roll them out pretty quickly.
And I really don't think that thoseguys had anything to do with it.
But are you talking about her roommates. Yeah, yeah, it didn't
(14:39):
seem like there was any evidence pointingto them. The closest thing as far
as where she was home was whatyou were saying with the house right next
store, which was you know,this being Oakland, California, it was
like, you know, five feetaway was this halfway house where they had
people on probation living there, somesketchy people, and it was strange that
(15:05):
house. Reading back on the historyof that house, like, yeah,
at one time people were making meththere, it was a pit bull fighting
house. One time, it wasinfested by roaches at one time. It
was like, oh yeah, Idon't know if you if you are looking
at it, or if you haveseen it, but we'll be right back
(15:30):
after this commercial break. Oh yeah, I don't know if you if you
are looking at it or if youhave seen it. But there is a
big complaint that I had actually savedat the time when I was writing this.
This lady had written I don't knowif she wrote the city, but
(15:52):
it was like a mile long thingof a complaint about this place and all
the things it had been and itwas now and how it was just ruining
that street. And yeah. AndKristen didn't know anything about that house,
and her parents surely didn't because Idon't think they would have let her go
(16:12):
at all, because they didn't theyweren't really wanting her to go in the
first place. But she was superpassionate about it, and they were like,
you know, if you call usall the time and you you know,
keep in touch, we can doit. And she agreed to that,
and I don't think she would havestayed by a place like that at
(16:34):
all if she would have known.Just so it is a possibility that maybe
somebody shady from that place did somethingon her walk home. And now so
she's working at the mall at thiscoffee shop. Is that right? This
coffee shop was in the Yeah,So she gets off and then on was
(17:00):
this the day she went missing?There was a video of her walking around
with a blondhaired woman. Yeah.Yeah, So it was like CCTV footage
and and they for years have triedto figure out who this woman was.
They don't know if this was connectedto the disappearance, but to this day
(17:22):
that has been a hanging kind ofpiece of the puzzle. That is so
frustrating to me because you don't knowif that woman is there as kind of
bait to you know, bring heras the victim into a you know,
a sex trafficking thing or something awful. You know, you just don't know.
(17:48):
And I can just imagine if Iwere a parent and I saw my
daughter and she's walking around with thiswoman, and we're begging and begging her
to come forward, and she doesn'tlike there is there I don't know,
like why wouldn't you come forward unlessyou know something or unless you've done something
wrong. So that part really doesit haunts me because I'm like, why
(18:15):
wouldn't she come forward? Though?Right if that just was very strange,
like unless it could be a caseof like just not wanting to get involved,
But even so, it just wouldbe nice to be able to um
explain who she was. And there'sone theory about a newspaper article right where
(18:41):
there was this up they found inher house and it had a thing,
yeah, yeah, it was inthe trash can, and they felt like
it was either something Kristen had wroteor because she was trying to find some
friends. So it was like therewas an ad in the paper where she
(19:02):
was looking for friends to like goout on the town with and take pictures
and just introduce, you know,her to more of San Francisco. And
you know, they don't know ifthis woman answered her ad or if Kristin
may have answered this ad and theyknew each other that way. They just
(19:25):
it is just so mind boggling tome. But like you said, there
are some people who just don't wantto get involved, even if they are
innocent. They just don't want allof that attention. They don't want just
you know, cops hounding them orwhatever it is. And you know,
(19:45):
it's still frustrating though, because ifshe has nothing to do with it,
I would also like at least callthem in private and say, hey,
you know that that person was me. You know, we were just hanging
out. I don't know what happenedwhen she left, because you know,
I think the CCTV footage did showthat she left them all by herself.
(20:11):
UM, but I don't know.That's just that's just one of the things
about this episode of many that thatdefinitely bothered me. And then one last
thread was Matthew Lucky Luke luque lu q u E. Yeah, I
(20:34):
think I think I called him Luke, which might be wrong. Yeah,
I couldn't figure out how to saythat. But Matthew Luke, which Matthew
um was one of their Um washe one of the co workers or they
had introduced him. So there wasa guy that was a co worker,
(20:55):
and I don't remember, I thinkit was Matthew Luke, but there were
two guys. One worked at thecoffee shop at the same time as Kristen.
And then quit or no longer workedthere after her disappearance, and then
the other guy was still there.And so when the man from North Carolina
(21:17):
went to the coffee shop, hewas like, hey, I want to
talk to this guy, and theywere like, well, he's not here,
but we can give you the number. Okay, okay, they wanted
to talk to Kelly, and theysaid, call Matthew to get a hold
of Kelly. It's kind of convoluted, but is that Yeah, yeah,
(21:37):
that sounds right. I knew itwas confusing when I was looking it up,
so I couldn't really remember who's who. But yeah, it's crazy how
these characters kind of intertwine in there. But yeah, a lot of names.
This is one that's easy to getlost in the names, for sure.
So Dennis, the guy who movedto California to try to research this
(22:03):
case, he calls Matthew, who'ssupposed to get him in touch with Kelly,
and Matthew like freaks out, andso this is like one of the
strange, one of the many otherstrange things. And Matthew just said,
look, I've got nothing to dowith it, and he hung up the
phone. And so now they're like, well, what was that about.
(22:26):
You know why? Because he's becauseDennis said he barely got her name out
of his mouth before this guy juststarted screaming at him, and that's like
red flag, right. So that'sthat. Now we've got this Matthew Luke
guy who is also just another redherring. Which do you know if they
(22:48):
ever got ahold of Kelly who wasthe guy Kelly Stratham? Um, I
don't remember. So he was likehe was another employee that they were going
to Matthew to trying to find him. So yeah, kind of one of
those other loose ends. So whatdo you think. I know, you
(23:11):
gave your two leading, but ifyou had to go with your gut,
like, is there one way yourgut's pulling you in this case that you
think is the most likely? Yeah, I think it's I just think the
most probably heartbreaking outcome, and whatis most likely, since people usually do
(23:32):
know their attackers, is that shethought that she was friends with these people
that she worked with, and thatgirl that was dating one of those guys
at the time. She called hergrandfather or her uncle and she spent hours
(23:53):
on the phone with him and shewas like, hey, I was involved
in a kidnapping and a murder,and it was all written out and wait,
let me go back. So asshe was telling him everything, he
just started getting out a pen anda piece of paper and he started writing
(24:17):
everything she was saying down and hethen got in touch with somebody, and
you know, it all came outthat she had said this. But I
don't understand why it never was lookedinto, like I feel that it should
have been. Was that Jill Lampo? Yes, yes, yes, yes,
(24:41):
yeah, that's right. That wasanother Yeah, just another very strange
but it does sound weird that youwould confess to something like that unless you
had something to do with it.Yeah, but that was years later,
right, that was like twenty twelvein this murder. This disappearance was in
nineteen ninety eight. But yeah,it seems strange that I wish we could
(25:10):
like talk to the police and belike, did you ever talk to Jill?
Like what happened? Yeah, Likewhat's going on with that Jill Lampo?
Because I think they did go toher house one time because I think
she was dating one of Kristen's x'sor something. I don't Oh my gosh,
(25:33):
I wish I could remember all thedetails, but I do remember somebody
had a diary back the end whenit happened. When the police searched,
they wanted to know why those dateswere ripped out because those were the days
leading up to Kristen's disappearance and theday that she went missing. These pages
(25:55):
were ripped out. They wanted toknow why, and it was one excuse
after the other, and it's justit's so frustrating. I think missing persons
cases that are never solved or areunsolved for such a long time are just
the most frustrating cases. For sure. Yeah, very tragic. I just
(26:18):
want to have that closure, evenif it was something horrific that happened.
And then let me ask you,how did you come across this case?
I think I was just looking upmissing persons cases because I wanted to,
do, you know, a missingperson's case, and I hadn't done one
(26:41):
in a while, And when Icame across I came across quite a few
stories, of course, but itwas hers just drew me in. And
it's when you get one of thosefeelings like like your name is just being
called to that specific story and Iwas like, wow, like I know
(27:02):
her name and I know for surethat people have covered this, but I
had never really dove into her,into her situation, or listen to any
episodes about her, and so Iwas like, I've got to do this.
This one is just speaking to melike it's kind of like, um,
(27:22):
the Alisa Lamb case. Um,it's just one of those ones that
when you get sucked in by it, you just you can't help it.
You want to know what happened,and you feel like someone knows something,
they're just not talking like the podcast, you know someone knows something. Yes,
(27:44):
yes, yeah, but that isthe That is the kind of what
we're searching for because it, likeyou said, I think it m ninety
six percent plus of a crime issomebody related to the person. Yeah,
yeah, it's it's some percentage whereit's like likely women know their attackers,
(28:10):
and it's really a low it's it'sa super low percentage really of women who
don't know their attackers and it's completelyrandom. So when I when I was
reading up on that, I waslike, wow, you know, you
always think it's going to be froma stranger or walking through a dark parking
lot and a stranger is going toget you or something. But it's more
(28:34):
scary to think it could be someoneclose to you, and it just gives
me chill bumps. But yeah,ninety six point four percent. And that's
what kind of got this Dennis Mayhonguy from Charlotte who moved there. That's
what he said too, you knowthat he found it was about fifty people
(28:59):
math that knew her since she wasnew to California. So he's like,
well, I'll just talk to allfifty people. I'll make notes and like
I'll have this thing solved. It'slike pretty sad, but yeah, as
anybody who is familiar with crime andthe tragedy of true crime is like,
there's so many cases of unsolved mysterieslike the show, and yes, somebody
(29:25):
knows something. I mean, Ido think you're right. And this guy,
um, Dennis Mahon, I thinkthere's probably there probably is somebody out
there in this case, like withso many others that could provide the missing
clue for sure for whatever reason,whether it's guilts or fear or something's holding
(29:49):
them back. But m yeah,and occasionally a podcast does. I mean,
that's the cool thing about podcasts thesedays. It's more more times doesn't
happen. But occasionally there is thatperson who comes forward with them missing.
Yeah, and that's another thing too, you know. But I found so
(30:12):
interesting when I started listening to Truecrime. As you know, they would
always put the numbers out there,and they would always, you know,
say call this number, call thisnumber. And I always thought, well,
you know, that is so sohelpful. And if nobody had heard
of the case before and they justhappened somehow to hear your episode and they
(30:33):
remember something that's huge and they're like, wow, I didn't know that this,
you know, was a thing,but I do remember this from back
the end when this happened, andyou know, maybe they'll call the police
with a tip that somehow they didn'tthink about. It's just one of those
(30:55):
things where you can only hope.Yeah. Absolutely so. Um, I'll
throw out two I think. Uhso, this website find Kristen k r
I st e N is the onethat Dennis Mayhon, the Charlotte, North
(31:15):
Carolina guy started. It's still uphere. It has a bunch of information.
Yeah, he's done a great job. He's still actively researching. He's
got a he has a podcast ofhis own. Right, Um, I
think so, but I wrong Christen'spodcast. Let me see if that comes
(31:36):
up. If it's still, Oh, I'd like to know Christen's podcast.
Um, so there is one calledChristen's podcast, but that's not it.
So yeah, if we find that, I'll put it in the episode.
That would be super interesting because Iwould I would like to listen to that.
(31:57):
Yeah. I don't know if it'sstill because his website is interesting enough,
but to actually hear him talk aboutit, I would love that.
Yeah, and I think this guy, at least from his website, it
sounds like he's still like he hasa full time job, but he's working
part time still on this case.As the last update was, I just
(32:25):
had it pulled up March twenty nine, twenty twenty two, so wow,
he had another anonymous tip. Soyeah, I would recommend if you're hearing
this and you haven't listened to pagespodcast, go back in our feed,
check out the episode about Kristen ModaFerry keep messing that up, and go
(32:52):
check out Reverie True Crime. Gogive her a subscribe, rate her podcast
five stars, And um, yeah, is there anything else you wanted to
plug about your show or anything elseyou wanted to say? I think I
think I'm I'm good. Um.Now Monday, I do have an interview
(33:16):
with Tera Newell, who took downDirty John. That'll be up next week
sometime. And right now I'm workingon domestic violence against men cases. So
that's pretty much it right now.Very cool. Yeah. Um, if
you like Page's work, also subscribeto or Patreon. I think it's uh
(33:39):
patreon dot com, slash reverie,revery true crime yea every true crime.
Uh yeah, thanks so much forum coming on Page. It was a
pleasure. Thank you, Take care, Bye bye
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