Bonus with Charlie Koyle! Life Insurance at the Source!

Episode Transcript
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Chris Holling (00:00):
I lost it

Charlie Koyle (00:00):
Now call him an idiot, Sean.

Sean Cooper (00:03):
I don't have to say it, he knows,

The circle is complete.

No that's all true. It's all true. You know,
actually, I do tend to start outwith some form of a dad joke.
And being that we just had a dadconversation. You've got to have
at least a dad joke at theready.

I have a financial dad joke no less. But

I almost spit out. Seltzer.

I'm a little worried that you might have
already used it.

Is it 789?

No, it's not that one.

Okay, well, then.
I don't know.

It is. Why is money called dough?

I don't know. I haven't used this one. I don't
know.

Because we all kneed it.

I like that one.

Why don't I know that joke?

You should know that one. That's
right up your alley.

Well, I'm gifted Sean, but I'm not not that
gifted.

I came prepared.
What can I say I'm a huge fan.

Hey, I found our second face. This is the truth
about investing back to basicspodcast where we want to help
you take control of yourpersonal finance and long term
investments. If you're lookingfor a way to learn the why and
how of investing, then you foundthe right place. Thank you for

(01:35):
taking the time to learn how tobetter yourselves. That's great.
Well, here, I'll, I'll get itgoing. So then that way, we at
least have the introductiongoing and then we'll just see
where the wind takes us.

Do you actually know what we're talking about
this,

I don't

Or are you just gonna throw it out there and
then I'm gonna have to change itlater.

I'm the editor.
I'm borderline Jesus, Sean, Ican just just make things
disappear like they neverhappened. So this is this is
where I can just make it happenfrom here and just start an
introduction and then fix itlater. That's how I welcome.
Welcome, everybody, ladies andgentlemen, to a bonus episode,

(02:16):
finishing out our fifth seasonof The Truth about investing
back to basics. My name is ChrisHolling.

And I'm Sean Cooper.

And we have a special guest to this guest
guest with us today. A Mr.

Oh, that's me.

Yeah, that's your Go ahead. Yeah, I wasn't sure if
I was gonna say it or not.
Well, I

thought I was gonna say He's Chris Holling
that's Sean Cooper.

Oh, we could try that.

And I'm your host Charlie Koyle.

We can try that.

Just kidding. I'm not that host.

No, it's perfect.
No, it's perfect.

I'm just kidding.
I don't. Yeah, I'm alreadyruining this recording as is.

No, no, we're, you're you're not. We're we're
here. What are we? We actuallydon't have a plan.

Well, at least one of us has a plan.
What is it Charlie

It's gotta be Sean. No, it's got to be Sean
because I definitely didn'tbring a plan. As you know, I'm

as I know,

I'm a firefighter paramedic in a nearby area from
you. So I have

This is how Charlie and I met. I'd never
really got into that.

And we burned.
Yeah, we probably should havedone this. Like, Hey, who are
you? And how do we know eachother?

That would have made sense where were you on
that, Chris?

May. You know what, through the magic of
editing you're, you're about towatch that. Sean Sean.

I might listen to it, but I can't watch it.

Yeah, we're gonna have to do the podcast plug and
then we'll do that like, Hey,who are you? How do we know each
other?

Yeah.

Cut and Paste this.

This is gonna be a disaster now. This, this

I knew that you were just gonna hate having me
on as soon as we startedtalking.

Yeah. So a little bit about our guest today, Mr.
Charlie Coyle. Here. We've We'veknown each other for Oh, geez.
That's, we're coming up on adecade.

I think. Yeah, no, we are definitely coming up
on a decade. Yeah. I just hit myninth year, I think.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it
was it was 2012. We both startedat the same department together.
I was. I was working volunteerat the time you went career
because you were volunteer rightbefore that. Right.

So I was volunteer at a neighboring. I
was a volunteer at thedepartment just to the west,
right and got picked up courier.

Right.
And I right, and I already hadmy certifications in place. And
so when the Academy started,since I already had the
certifications that wererequired for it, then that meant
that I could work the line but Istill had to go through the
academy so I was a was doing mytime on the line while I was in
Academy because I didn't want tojust do another academy after I

(05:06):
had just gotten out of one Iwanted some, some on the line
experience. And so we startedwithin months of each other. And
neither one of us knew anybody.
So, so Charlie was kind of a, anoasis of people that all knew
each other in a small towndepartment that neither one of
us really knew a bunch ofpeople. So it was, it was good

(05:29):
to to work with Charlie and thenwe we went our different ways
over time, but stayed connectedand now circled back. Because
now we're we're money nerds.

Yeah, money nerds, money nerds. Money's
important, man.

It is. It. It is.
It's it's shocked me howimportant it's been when I've
just thought, oh, yeah, I'lljust I'll just rough it, it'll
be fine. And then. And thenafter figuring out that there
was more importance to it, thenwhat opportunities came
available to me and what I coulddo with it after I started
getting my stuff straightenedout was was important. And we,
we talked about that before. Andthat's what that's what led us

(06:06):
to Charlie joining us today onsome subjects. So we're looking
forward to having you heretoday, Charlie, I appreciate it.

Well, I'm super excited to be here because I am
a super nerd and have totallypimped your podcast to as many
people as I know, because justlike you, most people think that
they know more than they do. Andthey can just kind of wing it.
And that's not the case. Yeah,

I definitely appreciate that. We we try to
keep these available. So it'sjust it hits to a bunch of
different people where they go,you know, I've got everything
straightened out, but then theycan't figure out a budget. So we
send them a budget one. Oh,well, you know, I, I do have a
budget handled but, you know,Hey, should I should I get this
insurance? Well, here's here'san insurance. Here's, here's how

(06:51):
deductibles work. Here's here's,oh, I think I'm gonna take all
my money and I'm gonna, I'm justgonna put it into this, this
cool new way to invest. Andit's, it's totally, totally
active investing, like, Okay,well, here's, here's active
versus passive. And that's,that's why we touch on all these
little categories so that youcan fine tune everything. Yes,
no,

no, it's super cool, super educational and fun
to listen to, except for reallyhard to listen to Chris. And all
your bad jokes. Just.

You mean, dad jokes? You Miss Miss Ed?

Yeah, I mean,

and we wanted to bring in Charlie here today,
because he exists in that realmof life insurance especially.
And right, right, Charlie and Imy my overgeneralizing that.

I mean, I would say that life insurance is
something that I am qualifiedand licensed to do. Oh,

no. That was well said with other than it's a
large question mark at the endof it.

Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm licensed as a insurance
producer. But I wouldn't saythat I'm like a subject matter
expert, because it's acontinuous process of learning.

Which is all this podcast is anyway, honestly. So

Are you? Are you life and health? Or do you have
that's good.
other other lines? Oh,

I'm just life and health.

Perfect

That's fair.

Okay. So there you go. So stretching into you
life and health insurance. Andthat's why we wanted to bring
him into this fold today, tojust kind of help us as a as a
bonus of wrapping up our seasonin this whole this whole deal
and just kind of talk about somenormal things. And I guess by
normal things, what I wonder iswhen you are talking to people

(08:38):
about life insurance, becausethat's that's what we've been
focusing on at least this laststretch, is there. Is there
anything in your realm in yourline of work that, that you like
to see that you like toencourage that that stands out
to you the goods the bads, thewhat stands out to you?

Well, it I would, I would say that there's goods
and Bad's with everything,right? Like it's it's totally
client dependent. It's, it's100% you have to meet with each
client figure out their needs,and there's goods and Bad's that
come with everything. There'srisks and benefits that come
with everything. And then sinceI, I'm not, like, I don't have

(09:17):
my series seven, I can't sellcertain products that like a
financial advisor could like Ican't I can't sell a variable
annuity. Somehow I can sell a401k which doesn't make sense to
me, but that's how theregulations work. So government
is cool. But like it's, it'stotally dependent on the client

(09:39):
and their needs. I mean, Ialways encourage people to
consider what kind of debt theyhave. And like I, I'm trying to
like say it without recommendingsomething via podcast, but

sure.

You know, like, usually The easiest entry level
product for somebody to get intothat I think most people would
benefit from. And I think youguys talked about it, at the
beginning of season five wasterm life insurance and just
being able to cover thoseexisting debts. Should something
happen, right. And even thoughthe payout is anywhere between
point five, and I think 3% ofoverall, like policies,

he does listen

Yeah, he does

good, because I didn't remember that. Good.

But even even though the actual payouts are
typically low compared to theamount of policies that are out
there, when those when thosepolicies are used, it's super
important, right? Because youdon't want to leave your family
with mountains of debt. There'scosts associated associated with
death, there's costs associatedwith, you know, cause of death,

(10:52):
whether it was injury orillness, there's going to be
medical bills, there's going tobe things to pay off, there's
going to be mortgages, there'sgoing to be loss of income,
there's going to be I mean, tonsof stuff that I think a lot of
people don't take intoconsideration. So I think it's
important that people are atleast covering their debts. And

(11:12):
that's, it's, it's hard to say,right, because insurance is such
a valuable part of a completefinancial profile. But it's not.
Like, it isn't a completefinancial profile. So it's
really important that, like youmeet with a client, or that the
client meets not only with theinsurance producer, but also a

(11:33):
financial advisor to figure outwhat product is right for them.
Because a lot of financialadvisors are also versed in
insurance. Like in Colorado, youhave to be licensed to sell
insurance to be a financialadvisor. So usually, they've
taken the entry level course,and they have some background,
and they can tell you whichproduct you need. And even if

(11:53):
you need a product, becausesometimes people don't need it.
Right. And that's, that's kindof the name of the game with
insurance production is like,sometimes they're snakes, right?
Like they're there to make acommission, they're there
because they want to sell youwhat's gonna make them the most
money versus what's the rightproduct. So I can't say that all

(12:15):
insurance producers are thegreatest people in the world.
But I'm sure there's great usedcar salesmen just like they're
bad used car salesman. I don'tknow.

That's, I think that's, that's, that's great.
Honestly, I think it's prettywell rounded. And it's, it
really fits into what I thinkI've wound up saying, and in
every episode at this point isthat it's, it's just keeping in
mind tools for the toolbox kindof thing. Because I, I'm with
you, it's not that thatinsurance should never be a part
of it, or should be a majorityfor it or anything, it's just

(12:44):
important to understand, youknow, where you are, in your
current point in time, wherethings that are important to you
are what needs to be covered,what what may need to be covered
from one step to the next and inthe interim, and the steps to go
through that. And, and whenyou're talking about finding the
different salesman and findingthe different types of people, I

(13:07):
tend to toss around a phrasethat I didn't realize it was
going to be so directed atCharlie here, but you know, I
don't I don't ask a lifeinsurance salesman, if I need
life insurance, if that's ifthat's a fair way to put it. I
don't ask a used car salesman ifI need if I need a new use car
type thing. And it's I I thinkthat there is some level of

(13:29):
going okay, I've done theresearch, I've looked at the
things that are important to me.
And now I've decided, I for surewant a used car. Okay, now I'm
going to go talk to somebodythat knows exactly that knows
used cars knows all thedifferent ins and outs and, and
whatnot, but doing your ownresearch to figure out what's
important to you and why it'simportant to you, I think is is
really important.

I think that like you kind of hit the nail on the
head is like you don't you don'task a life insurance salesman.
Do you need life insurance?
Right? Like if and this actuallyhappened to me? When long before
I got into, you know, like, myfinance goals and stuff like

(14:11):
that. I was a new homeownernewly married and believe it or
not, we had a door to doorinsurance salesman, a life
insurance salesman and

wow,

yeah, no, it was super weird.

I thought that was a thing of the past anymore.

So did I. But I think I was like 22. So I didn't
understand. And ironically,right like I had a financial
advisor, somebody I meet withtwice a year and deals with like
my Roth account and all thatstuff. But we had never talked
about insurance. He'd said, youknow, you should consider

(14:45):
insurance especially to coverany of your debts, but we never
really talked about it becauseat 22 You don't think about like
the fact that you could die,right? Like especially, I mean,
you and I do the same thing.
Most of the people that we seeIn that position are old or sick
or suffering. And,

sure.

The funny thing about life insurance is if
you're older, sicker suffering,you're not going to be eligible
to get life insurance, you haveto be healthy, right? It's a
gamble. It's a it's an educatedguess, on behalf of the life
insurance company that says, Oh,you are probably going to
outlive this policy. So we'regoing to make money on you. And
if you say, Hey, I'm 79, and Ihave cancer, and I've got two

(15:28):
years to live, I'd like a 30year term policy, they're gonna
be like, No, that's, that's nota thing. So, you know, at 22, I
was like, I don't needinsurance, I'm healthy, I'm
young and active, and no bigdeal. And then all of a sudden,
health insurance or not healthinsurance, life insurance
salesmen show up at my door, andthey're talking about whole

(15:52):
life. And without recommendingor, or discrediting a product
one way or another, it justwasn't the right product for me.
And just the way that they weretalking about it, they made it
seem like it was the perfectproduct for everyone. And

(16:16):
there's no such thing as aperfect product for anybody. In
any case, whether it's financialadvising, or if it's insurance,
sales, every single person isgoing to have different needs.
And it's really important tomeet those different needs. So I
guess Long story short, is, ifyou don't have a financial

(16:36):
advisor, you should find one ofthose for sure, right. And you
should find one that you trust.
And the same thing goes for yourinsurance salesman, you should
find one that you trust, becauselike the two door to door
salespeople that came by thereason they were trying to sell
me that specific product isbecause at the time that product
was advertised to them is what'sgonna make them the greatest

(16:57):
amount of money.

Sure.

They don't know me, they don't know my needs.
They came in and they had theexact same pamphlets that they
were going to hand to everybody.
And they don't really care. Soit's important to find somebody
that you trust, who's not goingto oversell you or undersell you
or sell you something that youdon't need. Because that's the
reality of it is like, insurancecompanies wouldn't exist if they

(17:20):
weren't making money, right?
So insurancesalesman wouldn't exist. If they

Absolutely.
weren't making money. They'relike, that's, that's called
capitalism, like, welcome to thegame. But it is okay to make
money doing the right thing. Soit's important to find someone
who's willing to go down thatpath with you and take the time
to talk to you and figure outexactly what you need, exactly

(17:46):
what you don't need and find theright stuff for you. And I think
that that goes kind of hand inhand with what Sean does. And,
you know, hopefully, he feelsthe same way.

Yep.

Sean, where does that land on on things for you?
So like, someone's coming in andtalking to you, and where do you
land? I guess there's more?

No, I would absolutely agree with what he
was saying is you definitelywant to work with somebody you
trust. But I would have add acaveat to that. Because he
brought up some great pointsabout how, while they are
supposed to be working for you,and looking out for your best

(18:34):
interests. Certainly, if theyare in a position where they're
supposed to be a fiduciary, thenthey legally are bound to work
in your best interests at alltimes, regardless of what pans
out for them. So that concept oftrust. The the caveat I would

(18:59):
add to that is I'm not even surehow to put this because I, in my
capacity working in corporatefor years before starting my, my
firm. I worked with 1000s offinancial advisors. The biggest

(19:19):
and most successful financialadvisors were rarely the ones
that knew the most about financeand investing. They were people
who were likable.

Sure. Yeah, I could definitely see that.

And so I guess my caveat is, yes, you
want to trust them, but you wantto take the extra step of
understanding their knowledgebase and understanding enough to
be able to test their knowledgebase and where they're coming
from and what their what therecommend route, what they're

(19:50):
recommending and why they'rerecommending it.

Right.

Because yeah, I agree trust is absolutely
crucial in when it comes to yourfinances. Because if you can't
trust the person that you'reworking with, you're never going
to tell them all the informationthey need to actually do the
best job for you. But don'tnecessarily just rely on your
gut instinct of Yeah, I likethis person, they're

(20:18):
trustworthy. They'll do the bestfor me.

Well, that's a good point. I'm wondering if I
know we've alluded to some ofthis before, but I don't know if
we've ever actually come outand, and said it specifically.
But part of the reason that wewe do this podcast is sort of a,
this, this, this might be kindof a large generalization of it,

(20:44):
but I think it's the best way toword it a moral duty, that's an
extension of Sean from thefiduciary realm, where it's
exactly what he's talking aboutthat he has a legal obligation,
let alone he just happens to bea decent guy that does want
everyone to be successful. Andthe best way to do that is to,

(21:08):
to have a knowledge base,there's nothing in any of our
episodes that we've everaddressed as like a, these
people will know better than youor you will only be successful
if you do this yourself by nostretch, have we ever done
anything like that it's beenvery, we want everyone to, to
know, whatever you're interestedin, in learning more about and

(21:30):
take the time to gather theknowledge for it. Because if you
have somebody acting in yourstead, you should at least be
able to understand what'shappening so that you can hold
that accountable or so that youcan make good decisions and, and
point them in a in a gooddirection if they don't see
something, even if they'reacting in your best interests,
or maybe to look out forsomebody that might not be
acting in your best interests.
And that's why we search forthese tools in the toolbox and

(21:52):
why we encourage people reallytrying to take the time to to
better themselves through this.
Because it's you taking that onin order to handle that and
address it as your own notbecause there's a certain way to
do it, but because we reallyjust do want to see everybody

(22:13):
successful in the in the phrasethat Jarmar likes to use that I
like to toss around. I just Ijust want rich friends, man.
Like, that'd be that'd be great.
I I have no intention of evergetting a boat but if I got
somebody that's like, you know,if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't
be as wealthy as I am today. ButI've got this boat I'm gonna go
hang out with that guy. Andthat's that's part of it too.

(22:33):
But really just just taking thetime to to keep people
accountable. Even if you're notthe one doing the the active
portion of the investing I thinkis is very important.

I mean, you don't have to own the boat. I think
that's probably not the greatestdecision in the world. But you
want to have a friend with aboat.

That's what I'm saying? I don't I don't want the
boat. I just want to ride theboat.

Yeah, ride the boat.

Yeah.

What's the what's the saying the the best two days
of owning a boat or the day youbuy it and the day you sell it?

Yeah. I've, I've heard that

or bought what is? What is boat stand for bust
out another 1000.

Those of you that are listening, you don't have to
sell your boat. Just Just callme so that we can ride in your
boat before you sell it.

I was about to say

I was gonna ask Charlie, though, because one of
the things we've we haven'taddressed. We I think we have a
future episode about itspecifically related to like
financial advisors and that sortof thing. But could you talk a
little bit more about the someof the differences between
insurance agents, one of thethings that comes to my mind is
captive versus independent. Youknow, what's the difference? Is

(23:59):
it something that matters? Iknow, there's advantages and
disadvantages to each. Are thereother things that should be
considered or differences thatpeople might want to be aware
of?

Are you talking about like specifically
independent versus captiveagents or like insurance agents
versus financial advisors versusCFPs? That kind of stuff for

captive versus independent? Specifically, if
you want to talk about the otheryou're welcome to as well?

Well, so there's independent and captive. So
basically, what that means is,I'm trying to space it so that
my kid is not in the backgroundover the recording. But so
there's, it's, I mean, the bestway to think of it is like, if
if you go to a restaurant versusordering from DoorDash, right,

(24:46):
so if you wanted french friesfrom one place and a hamburger
from another place, you would goto DoorDash right, because you
have multiple different choices.
is a captive is like just theFrench fry place, you have to
get a burger from that place. SoI mean, we can talk about like
the big names in insurance,right? So like all state, right?

(25:09):
They they've got good

And that voice commercials good advertisement
and all that stuff. But ifyou're saying

and I mean the best for voice right

Are you in good hands. Allstate
I don't know how low I can.

But you know, so like if you're if you're talking
to an Allstate agent or evenlike State Farm, right, like
they have tons of differentneighborhood offices, their
signs are huge. If you're goingto a state farm or an Allstate
agent, you are going to get aState Farm or an allstate
product. Which isn't necessarilyto say that that's a bad thing.

But that is captive, that is

right, that's getting that's captive, so they
sell within their realm. So ifit's a State Farm agent, you're
going to get a State Farmproduct. If it's an Allstate
agent, you're going to get anAllstate product versus an
independent agent, like me,where I can shop around I can
look at, it's more of like abrokerage position, right? Like
I can shop different insurancecompanies to get my clients the

(26:16):
best product at the best rate.
And usually, that's what itcomes down to most insurance
products are going to be 99%.
Similar in the contract and thelanguage, it really comes down
to cost versus benefit. So anindependent agent has the
freedom to look outside of theirlittle box, and a captive agent

(26:41):
lives within their box. Thatbeing said, a captive agent may
be able to get you a betterrate. Because they're within
their little box, they mighthave different rates that
they're allowed to sell, theycollect obviously different
commission. It's it's a wholebigger system kind of behind the
curtain, but they may be able toget a better rate. If that's

(27:02):
like if there's like a specificproduct that you're interested
in. If you're just interested inlike a term life policy, you
don't really care who owns it.
You know, you can you can talkto an independent agent. And
usually they can they can checktons and tons of different
companies and get you the bestproduct for the best price.

That was great.
That was a great summary.

Yeah, I think that was that was really well
said.
And I

I think everything I'm saying is super
long winded and you're gonnahave to cut out like 90% of it.

No,

that's Chris's job.

That sounds like a future Chris problems. Well,

yeah, we don't have to worry about that right now.
You can just keep talking. Now,I was gonna I was gonna add to
that. Because on your pointthere each insurance company,
yes, they're competing acrossthe broad spectrum, but they
also tend to try todifferentiate themselves in
certain ways. So they tend totry to have certain areas that

(27:58):
they can beat the competition,either in additional features,
or maybe lower premium,something along those lines.
Right, right. Yeah, if youbundle or something along those
lines. And so by way of example,when Jackson national life was
first created, their founderspecialized the company in

(28:19):
offering insurance lifeinsurance, to smokers, that was
their specialty. So where othercompanies are either going to
list you as a substandard riskand charge a higher premium, or
they're not going to insure youat all, that was their
specialty, so they could offerbetter premiums to smokers. Now,
they don't even sell thatanymore, for the most part. But

(28:41):
that's to give you an idea thateach of these companies is going
to have some potentially someform of specialty that they're
trying to differentiatethemselves with. And sometimes
that, you know, oftentimes thatindependent broker is going to
be able to shop those around.
Now, if that specialty happensto be at that captive agent. The
only way you're going to get itis through that captive agent.

Sound Yeah, absolutely. Well, and mentioning
that too, with with the shoppingaround, whether it's yourself or
you having somebody that'sthat's able to look into it for
you or or anything along thoselines. We we've discussed in in
previous episodes, I'd have totry and figure out which one it
was that we specifically talkedabout this but

I'm sure I can tell you

I'm sure. But I don't I don't want him to
completely make us look bad. SoI'm not going to ask him to do
it.

I'm already making you look bad.

We talked about the importance of continuing to
reevaluate where your insuranceis at maybe yearly. And that
could be because there's there'sa new opportunity that developed
or something in your life mayhave changed. And having
somebody that can can reallyshop around and look at all
those things like Charlie likelike a broker can really help

(29:58):
offer a lot of that and I Iexperienced that this last year
where I realized I was payingfor, for car insurance with a
company that was that was great.
And they had great customerservice. And I really enjoyed
them. And I'm not going to usethem by name by any stretch. And
they probably won't after I tellyou the story, but I, I called
them one day and said, Hey, I'vebeen doing some shopping around

(30:20):
and this other company is ableto offer me coverage at a lower
rate and actually offered memore coverage. And I haven't
used you guys in years. So I'mreally paying a lot of extra
fees. And it's not, it's not inmy interest anymore to use you
guys unless you can match therate that you're doing, that
they're doing. They said, Oh,yeah, let's let's have a look.

(30:43):
Oh, they're they're doing that.
No, we, we can't do that. Isaid, Okay. Well, I really don't
want to leave because yourcustomer service is great. Oh,
yeah. It's it's ranked numberone in the in the nation. Like
that's, I believe that. Andespecially when I handle these
phone calls, I, I believe thatlike but if I am paying extra
money just to have a nice phonecall every month, then I would

(31:05):
rather spend the money on a 900number, then use this company,
and I will go with them instead.
And they said Have a good day,sir. And then I no longer use
them. But it's I think it'simportant to shop around and
reevaluate some of those things.
Because then if if you have thatextra wiggle room, in my case, I

(31:27):
was able to dedicate those fundsto go to other things that were
important to me because of it.
But just reevaluating isimportant as well.

Right. And somebody else might have said no, I like
the customer service. I've hadawful experiences elsewhere,
I'll pay extra for that.

Right, which is how I wound up with them in the
first place. But then I realizedthat I just I wasn't using them.
So I didn't even need thecustomer service aspect either.
And that's so I changed, mycircumstances changed. And so I
reevaluate. And I'm, I'm glad Idid

there you go

I think it's the right thing to do. I mean,
especially with I mean, ifyou're young, and when you're
older, it's a little bit moredifficult as far as like, the
different types of products. Buttake for instance, like term
life, right? In my case, when Ifirst got term life, I was like
25. But you know me back then Iwas like 260, like big boy, when

(32:19):
I didn't big pants, and now I'mdown to 220. And believe it or
not, like even though I washealthy, I was a 25 year old
dude, I was overweight, and thatchanges your rates and stuff
like that. And then when youthink about insurance, you're
not thinking about like youroverall health, you're thinking
about usually it's age, age islike their big actuarial table,

(32:40):
right. But then they havedifferent grades and ratings are
associated with overall health.
And that's why you have to go inand get a physical and a blood
test and stuff like that. Butmost of the companies, I don't
want to say all. Well, in thecase of Term life, everything is
covered. But by law, they haveto cover your physical prior,
like you're not, you're notgoing to pay for that if you

(33:01):
want to reevaluate. It's notlike a house where if you want
to refinance, you have to payfor the appraisal. If you want a
new appraisal on you, you callyour insurance company and say,
Hey, I'm super, super slim now.
rock hard abs, I was super fatberfore.

I got the ThighMaster. I'm just saying,

Yeah, I'm extremely attractive now.

They give discounts for being attractive

about to. It's once they get a look at all
this.

It's why I pay the premium premium. But yeah,
so it's it, just like any and Idon't want to speak for Sean.
Right? I don't want to speak forfinancial advisors, because I'm
not one right. And but it'sreally important to reevaluate
your finances regularly, right?
Like you want to do that. Andwhen I think of insurance, I
think of it as a part of yourfinancial profile. And if you're

(33:54):
meeting with your financialadvisor, you're going over your
finances at home, or whateveryou're doing. If you're doing
that twice a year, you shouldconsider doing it with your
insurance depending on theproduct that you have. Because
you might be able to keep theexact same coverage with the
exact same company, but pay halfthe price. So

absolutely.

Like there's no harm in re evaluating. It's not
gonna hurt it. And some peopleare totally happy paying. Like,
I don't know, we'll use a roughestimate, but like 20 bucks a
month for their term life,right? Because it's cheap, it's
easy. It comes out. If they godown to 17 bucks, is it gonna
bug them a lot? Well, that $3 is$36 a year over 30 years, right?

(34:37):
Like, it could be expensive,right? But is it worth it? Is it
worth your time? What's yourtime worth stuff like that, but
in some people's cases, thedifference could be, you know,
50 bucks a month, it could be100 bucks a month depending on
the size of your policydepending on what the changes
were and that will equate to alot of money. So

absolutely

re Evaluate, reassess. Why not? Doesn't hurt?

Right? Well, and then, you know, just like you're
saying too worst case, you gothrough the revaluation and then
they, they make that differencefrom the the 20 to the 17 bucks.
And then you go, Oh, well, youknow, this, this didn't really
change much for me, right? Idon't want to entirely switch
companies just for this, thisamount, or, Oh, they do offer

(35:25):
this, but it's it's even $1more. But it's, it's what's
meeting things that I need rightnow, then that's, that's why

One, it can also go up instead of down to write
it's important.
like, let's say I kept so Imean, long story short, right.
Like I went from 260 to 220, Ilost 40 pounds, but my insurance
premium dropped. They went from24 to $17. a month, right? For

(35:52):
me personally.

Sure.

And that's not a ton of money. But it's a huge
percentage change, right? Butthe kicker is, is that policy
that I had was no longer enoughfor what I have now, right?
Because when I bought that I wasin my first house, I didn't have
any kids. I was making adifferent salary working for a

(36:13):
smaller department at the time.
And now I'm, you know, in abigger house, I've got two kids.
I've got a different quality oflife based on my income now, I
guess.

Right,

but so like, my needs have changed, as opposed
to like the, the the other sidewhere things can get better. But
the cool thing is, is becauseeverything kind of all changed
it at once, I guess you couldsay,

Sure.

My rates went down. But by keeping my rates
the same, my coverage went up.
So kinda like you're saying, Idon't have to leave the company.
I like my company I like, youknow, I do other insurance
products through them too. And,like, they're great. But because
of everything that went on, Ihad to reevaluate. Was it
enough? You know, was it beingsupplemented through an
insurance product that Ireceived from my employer,

(37:05):
which, depending on what you dofor a living, you may get, you
know, do you need to maintainyour existing insurance? If you
have insurance elsewhere? Do youhave more debt? Have you bought
a bigger house? Do you have morekids? Are there more
responsibilities, bigger gapsthat have to be filled? Should
you pass? What would you guyscall it? I think it was, like
death insurance instead of lifeinsurance?

Death Insurance.
He does listen.

Yeah. So like, Should you need that death
insurance? Is it going to beenough and things change every
single year. So I think you guysmight have talked about it and
how you can have, like, drawinga blank on it, which is great,
considering I'm responsible forselling this stuff, but like the

(37:54):
face value of a policy can goup, it can go down, it can stay
level. So like, maybe you werein a product with a level face
value. And you you actuallymight benefit from something
that's going down because yourdebt is decreasing over time,
and you have everything set upand super low interest, like,
you know, your mortgages, apercent or whatever magic number

(38:17):
that some people might have beenable to hit and you're like,
Well, I'm really not going torefi that into a 7% or something
like that. But it makes sense tokeep your coverage, there might
be a better product. I mean,there's there's so many good
reasons to reevaluate that,like, I don't know, I'm just
reiterating the same point thatyou've made, and I made, but
like, just do it doesn't hurt.

Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. No matter what. And,you know, just just like we're
saying too, if you do it, andthen you find everything's good,
great, then you then you havethat certainty.

The other cool thing, I don't want to keep
beating on a dead horse, butlike, let's say, I thought maybe
I'm healthier, and I'm in bettershape or whatever. And I could
get a reduced rate. And I go in,and I do my physical on blood
screen and they go, we can'tgive you a better rate because

(39:09):
your hair is turning gray. Andthat's terrible news. And I'm so
sorry. Sorry, Sean. But

shots fired.

Yeah. But you know, so let's say they discover
that you have an underlyinghealth condition, they can't
cancel your policy. So like, itreally is no risk to the
consumer to do that. And I knowsome people might hesitate
because they're like, ah, youknow, I put on some pounds or I
got a family history of cancerand, you know, say let's say for

(39:37):
instance, you're a firefighter,you're in a high risk career,
you've got a high risk ofcancer, you might not want to go
in because you might, they mightdiscover you have cancer and
you're like, well, they're goingto shoot my rates up. Well, they
don't get to do that. That's thecool thing is you're already
locked into that contract. Soworse case, and obviously that
would be a really crappy way tofind out that you have cancer.

(40:00):
but they're not going to jackyour rates up. So there really
is no risk to the consumer tojust keep looking.

I'd say the one the one caveat to that would be if
it was material information thatyou knew about when you filled
out the application, and we'rein the first two years of the
contract, which would be thecontent and contest,
contestability period. So butyes,

yeah, don't do that.

Don't do that don't lie on the application,
because

that's the easiest thing to garner from that.

And you want to know why they only pay out half
a percent to 3% of all theirpolicies, it's because some
people, like will buy aninsurance product, it's like a
weird way of laundering money,but without their, like, they'll
buy the insurance product,knowing that they're dying. But
then when, like, the insurancecompanies are not just gonna cut

(40:54):
you a check and be like, Oh,well, Bill's dead, you can tell
because of the way it is, right?
There, they're still gonna do aninvestigation, like they have to
receive proof there's, there'sstill hoops you have to jump
through. And they're, they'regonna analyze your contract
versus whatever they found.
They're not just going to handout money. So Right.

Absolutely.

My question was in regard to where you see the
industry going, in the future,both short term and long term.
And I'll add to that, a coupleof concepts that we've somewhat
touched on in the past, and somethat maybe we haven't. So number
one, there are a couple ofdifferent insurance companies

(41:38):
out there that and thisprobably, this might not
actually apply to you, givenyour your licenses, but their
annuity contracts, they swore upand down, they were never going
to go the fee based route. Theywould always be commissioned
based products. And now ofcourse, they've gone the fee
based route. So that that wouldbe one concept. And then another

(42:03):
is, this was one that Chris andI touched on very briefly, in I
don't remember which episode,but we mentioned the idea that
Social Security has, is facing anumber of challenges that are
based on demographics, and thatlife insurance may very well be
facing some of those samechallenges associated with those
demographics in the future. Sothrowing those two things out

(42:27):
out at you in relation to thefuture of the industry, what are
your thoughts on those inparticular, or other ideas that
I, you know, maybe we haven'teven addressed

big guns.

Yep.

Cool. So Sean's questions? Where do I think the
insurance industry is going?
Well, I have a ton of opinionson that. The fee based versus
commission based honestly, I, Icouldn't I couldn't tell you,
right. Like, I think that a lotof that is probably going to be
pushed by the brokersthemselves, because there's an

(43:03):
opportunity to make more moneylong term, I guess. And but,
man, it's tough, because, youknow, you talk about insurance
companies, especially the onesthat have annuities. And you
look at the age and thedemographic. You know, there's,
there's so many different Idon't want to say like,

(43:25):
environmental factors, but like,I think you touched on it a
little bit earlier in theseason. Some people kill
themselves. And

that's true

See a higher rate of suicide when things are going
poorly. And so depending on whathappened,

like right now,

like, like right now, so,

and it's the holidays like that never mind.

But I mean, you see a higher rate of suicide, we
also have a pandemic that we'recurrently going through. So the
rate of death is, despite thefact that, you know, it's such a
small percentage of people thatget sick. It's significantly
higher than the insurancecompanies have planned for. So
it's, it's a little worrisomebecause especially with an

(44:09):
annuity where you have aguaranteed payout, and I mean,
what happens if that company'snot there, right. Like there's
there's backup, I guess youcould say like backup support,
there's other companies that canbuy your, your policy, most of
them are FDIC insured, butthat's only up to 250,000. So
like, there's there. It's, it'sa slippery slope, because

(44:36):
insurance is like so important.
But I also think thathistorically, or maybe not
historically, but recently, overthe years, insurance companies
have started to pivot themselvesto try to be financial advisors,
like I know guys who sellinsurance who are selling
products as an investment right.
And I think that the The reasonthey're doing that is almost to

(45:00):
as a hedge, right? Because nowyou have all of these policies
that are outstanding, and youhave to have the resources to
fund those policies shouldsomething happen, right? Like
you have all of this outstandingliability. How do you pay for
that should somethingcatastrophic appear right. And
so now you have all kinds ofdifferent products, right. Like

(45:24):
you have annuities, you havewhole life, I mean, whole life's
been around a while, but youhave whole life, you've got term
life, you've got annuities,you've got variable annuities,
you've got indexed annuities,you got universal whole life,
you've got variable whole life,I mean, like, all these
different products, and they'readvertised totally differently.
Then like a traditionalinsurance product, where we

(45:48):
think of insurance as the justin case and then you have whole
life, which is advertised as thejust in case, but you also get
your money back. And then youhave like, Universal Life or
indexed universal life that sayswhat you're going to put in, and
then you're going to make money,but it's also life insurance,
but it's also making you money.
And keep in mind, some of theseyou have to have, like you have

(46:10):
to be licensed through FINRA tosell so like, I can't sell
everything. But like, it's, it'stough, right? Because you've
seen such a big transition inthe insurance industry as a
whole. Because a lot of theselike, like Indexed Universal
Life didn't exist, like 20 yearsago, that wasn't a thing. And

(46:31):
now you have all of theseinsurance companies. And man,
I've, if the people I work withhere, some of the things or the
opinions that I have, I mightnot work there very much longer.
So because, like I said earlier,like the insurance industry is
about making money, right? Likeit is about protecting yourself
with the product. But insurancesalesmen sell insurance because

(46:54):
they make money insurancecompanies sell insurance,
because they make money. There,that's the reality of it. And so
now they're they're beingadvertising, you have these
products that are beingadvertised as like the Swiss
Army knife, right, like you cansay, for school or a wedding,
but it's also insurance, butthen it's also tied to, you
know, the s&p 500. And you'renot going to lose money, because
it's got a 0% floor. And I mean,it's it's so weird, because,

(47:19):
like, I know, this has nothingto do with fee based versus
commission based, but you startlooking at, like different
styles of accounts, kind of likethat, right? Like, you look at
an index Universal Life, whichis technically not a securities
product, it just follows theindex. And it gives insurance

(47:40):
providers or insurance brokersor producers, the ability to
sell these products that arealmost being advertised kind of
like as an investment strategy.
And from where I sit, if, if I'mselling somebody, a product,
right, like, if I'm selling youterm life, you are going to pay
a flat rate every single month,for a level, you know, face

(48:05):
value of the product, right?
Like, I know exactly what you'regoing to pay, you know exactly
how much you're going to getpaid out should something
happen. But then you startlooking at like an IUL. And you
have the opportunity topotentially make money, right?

(48:27):
Like your money is going in, andit can make you more money. That
being said, if I'm the sales,it doesn't make sense that I'm
only making money off of like aflat rate premium, when the face
value of your policy could begoing up, right? Like, as a
consumer, absolutely. Like, Iwant no offense to the other

(48:48):
insurance salesman, right. Butlike, I'm not here to get you
paid. Like that's not as aconsumer, I'm not here to pay
the insurance salesman. But asthe insurance salesman, if I
sell you a product and you endup making money on it. The same
way that you know, a aninvestment advisor or a
financial adviser, somebodythat's working with you on your

(49:11):
401k They're making usually apercentage of your assets under
management. Now, you've watchedinsurance transition to all
these different products thatare disguised as assets under
management, but there's novariation in compensation. But
the kicker is, is how do theinsurance companies make more

(49:34):
money, right? And they said,we're just gonna be you know,
flat rate, we're just going tobe fee based. Like, you look at
that, and they're already makingmoney on top right, because it's
usually got a cap. I think rightnow like most of the products
are capped at between seven and12%. So they're already making
money over that seven to 12%,but they're still managing a

(49:57):
certain amount of assets. setsthat you've been making. So like
they have the potential to makemore money as things go on. And
that's like it is capitalism,and they are going to do
everything they can to make kindof as much money as they can,
because that's the goal,

right?

And they're gonna make more money off of a
commission based schedule than afee based schedule. So, like, it
would be cool, if everybodystuck to their word and was
like, we are only going to bethe good guy, we are only going
to charge you this flat rate.
But people don't have billionsof dollars, because they were
like, I'm gonna do the rightthing. And, you know, feed the

(50:40):
world population for a year.
Right? So they're, they're gonnado what they can to make more
money. And it's, and I knowthat, like, I've had the
conversation with Chris, beforeI talked to you, Sean. But like,
that's, that's kind of the worldwe live in, right? Like these
people are going to get in. SoI'm never going to be a good

(51:01):
insurance salesman. But youknow, at the end of the day,
like, the producers are there tomake money the companies are
there to make money. Yeah, theymade promises. But ultimately,
their their job is to make asmuch money as they can, as
quickly as they can, and thenmake money off their money and
stuff like that. So yeah, Ithink I think commission based

(51:25):
is going to be I do think it'sthe future. Like, I don't think
there's any way of avoiding it,especially with the the style
of, or the type of productthat's being sold, obviously,
like Term Life is still thenumber one product that's being
sold, right? Like that's themost access product by most
people, at least, anecdotally,right. Like, I can tell you more

(51:48):
people want that than anythingelse. But for the remainder of
these products, they're there,they have more opportunities to
make more money, and still beable to sell it to you as a
product that is also going tomake you money. Right. So do I
think that that's the future?
Absolutely. Do I think that Iagree with it? Not necessarily.

(52:10):
But do I understand why? Yeah,definitely. And then, what was
your second question? Because Igot hung up on that one.

That's okay. That's okay. I'll refresh on that. I
want to add two things. Numberone, Charlie's operating at a
bit of a disadvantage, becausethere are a couple of episodes
that we have recorded. That maycome out before this. My point
being is we've talked about someof these things that Charlie has
not heard before,

okay.

And so if somebody hears, actually listens to it,
and then listens to this. That'swhy. So anyway, the the other
thing that I would add is one ofthe underlying beauties of

(53:02):
capitalism that I think getsdownplayed is, every time you
spend money, it's the equivalentof voting, you're voting with
your dollar. And you you, youhave more power to vote with
that than anything else. So yes,people in business are out to
make money, they wouldn't be inbusiness otherwise, but you have

(53:26):
the power to determine whosucceeds who gets that money.
And going back to that issue oftrust, and finding the people
that you can trust and arelooking out for your best
interest and, you know, feedingthose people as opposed to
others. The that capitalismthing, coin has both sides, and

(53:52):
I think it gives the theconsumer just as much power as
well. So getting back to my, thesecondary question there that
was in regards to what was mysecondary question?

Well, before you do that, before, before you do
that. That's, that's, that's mesnapping. It's my it's my
applause because your, your,your capitalism is voting is
poetic. I liked it. Alright, soyeah, what was your secondary
part where you got confused?

How demographics will impact the industry going
forward? And if you'd like I cankind of fill you in on what we
we've said previously.

Yeah. Why don't we start there's been so that I
can try to add to it.

So the concept that I've thrown out there is that
Social Security has faced anissue with the basically, the
baby boomer generation being alarger generation than the
Generations Under it that arepaying into Social Security. So
you have a larger demographicthat is retiring and living

(55:07):
longer and therefore pulling onsocial security with a smaller
group of smaller demographicspaying into it. So I think at
one point in time that we're,you know, roughly what was it 16
people paying into SocialSecurity for every one that's
drawing, and now we're at like,less than three people paying in

(55:28):
for every one that's drawing orsomething along those lines,

It's like two point seven or something like
that.

Yeah, exactly. So.
And that same. And you alludedto this, too, as you were
talking about the, you know,variety of products, and all of
those products out there thatultimately have liabilities
associated with them. Buteventually, that same concept.
Demographics essentially dictatethat the same thing could could

(55:56):
be a challenge for lifeinsurance companies, as well.
And I've also suggested thatwe've seen a little bit of that
in terms of the profit marginsof many insurance companies,
when you look at premiums versusliabilities paid out. And, and
that's not completelydemographics. Some of that just

(56:20):
has to do with different agegroups being interested in
different types of products,like you talked about term
insurance versus, you know, someof the younger generations are
not as interested or in wholelife or something along those
lines. So that's kind of whatwe've touched on. It's been very
brief in the past, but wanted toget your, your take as well. Or

(56:42):
maybe there's something elsethat you'd like to add in there,
too.

All right. Let's talk about the current
demographics and how they'reimpacting the future of life
insurance. So how do I thinkit's gonna go right, like,
everything's my opinion, some ofit's fact based, some of it's
just like, totally gut based? I,I think that kind
of like anything else, they're

That's fair.
gonna find a way to survive. Youknow, Social Security is unique
as it functions as kind of a bigpot. And granted, some of that
money is invested. Right. Butit's usually very low risk. It's
not like they're throwing itinto startup companies, right?

(57:27):
Like, they're not just saying,like, Oh, I wonder how much
money we can make with all theseother people's money. But the
same time It by invested? Youmean a line item on a ledger
somewhere in the IRS' computersystem?

Yeah.

That of money that's already been used, then.
Yes. Sure

I mean, you know what I mean, but like,

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
I'm just giving you a hard time.

But this the same thing kind of goes
with insurance. I think what alot of people don't know about
insurance companies is theydon't just take your money and
put it in their pocket and holdit for a rainy day, and pool it
in some big Scrooge McDuck,safe, right. Like, they're,
they're doing things with thatmoney to make money. So they're
taking your premiums and they'reinvesting your premiums, they

(58:13):
are making money, the same waythat you as a consumer can make
money through a traditionalretirement accounts, your
qualified accounts, or your nonqualified accounts, whatever you
whatever you're doing to makemoney. The insurance companies
are doing the same thing. Theinsurance companies obviously
have people that they employ,they, you know, they have
really, really smart people thatare determining all their

(58:34):
actuarial tables for payouts onthe consumer level, but on the
same side, or on the other side,they have financial advisors of
their own that are saying like,hey, you know, this is a good
opportunity. We think based onmarket trends, this is where
we're going to put the money.
Granted, they're not they're notdoing like high risk investing.
They're not they're not a 22year old, just getting into the
stock market saying, Make me asmuch money as possible right

(58:57):
now. So I can compound thatinterest over time, but they are
making money. So they're takingyour money to make more money.
And that's where I think thatthey're gonna have to start
pivoting in order to survive,because like you said, their
their premiums are, or I guesstheir rate of premium is coming
down, because not as many peopleare as interested. And then you

(59:20):
run into what are they called?
The Gen Xers. What's thegeneration below us, Chris?

The below us?

Yeah,

like, younger to us,

because we're millennials, right?

Yeah, I think that could be Gen Z, perhaps.

I don't know what they're, they're the Gen letters

There's gen x and z isn't there at this point.

Yes.

I'm getting old

Well, but also people tend to just generalize
the, the millennial thing. Theypretty much say anybody that
meets our age range, and newer,they tend to call Millennials
even though it's inaccuratewhich anymore just means anybody
40 years old and young. But Idigress.

Charlie Koyle (01:00:02):
We'll just call them the, as an elder
millennial, I'll call them Thejuvinile millenial. But you
know, the other thing, and itkind of ties back to what I said
at the beginning is insurancereally should only be dictated
by needs. And based on the thenewer demographic, there's a
much lower rate ofhomeownership, which in most

(01:00:23):
cases, is the number one sourceof debt, right? Or at least a
largest source of debt. And alot of people don't look at it

Chris Holling (01:00:29):
Love that credit card.
as debt because you're gainingequity. And you're, you know,
you're paying towards yourprincipal. So it's really not
like a ton. But that is moneythat you've borrowed, right?
Like, that is not your money,you're renting the house from
the bank for 30 years. And sowhen you think about life

(01:00:49):
insurance, you want to make surethat you can cover your rent,
right? But if they're notrenting a house, if they don't
have that giant, massive sum ofdebt, they have no need. So if
there's no need, then they'renot going to go forth and
purchase a $400,000 term lifepolicy to cover zero debt.
Obviously, the avocado toastcredit card might be pretty high

(01:01:12):
or whatever.

Yeah, I mean, I love avocado toast. It's like
the my favorite thing to make inmy house. But

I write millennial in it.

Yeah, the only reason I have my house
was to make homemade avocadotoast. I'll circle it back
around. Like it, a lot of thingsare gonna change within the
industry. And I think that thebiggest thing that they're going
to have to change is basicallytheir investment strategy. Right
now, it's still, as far as Iknow, right? Because I don't I

(01:01:45):
don't see where they're puttingtheir money. Most of us don't
see where they're putting theirmoney until well, after the
fact. But most of it's fairlyconservative, and it's blown,

Sean Cooper (01:01:54):
don't they have some restrictions, regulatory
wise in terms of how aggressivethey can invest?

So yes, but I still don't think that they've
reached the pinnacle, right?
Like, I don't think I don't, andI don't know for sure, right?
Like, I'm, I'm totally, this isall opinion right here. I don't
know, if they're just likeslamming it all, like if their
foot is on the gas as hard as itcan be, and they're like,
invest, invest, invest, if we gobelly up, whatever, you know,
the government will take care ofus, which, if you're already

(01:02:22):
talking about Social Security,we're doing it, we're doing a
great job. But

right well

but you know, I think that they're gonna have to
change their strategy. And Ithink that one of the ways that
obviously they're doing that isthe fee versus commission based,
because it gives them anopportunity to make more money.
And just like any product, theycan raise the price, you know,
the rate of inflation isobviously higher. And as things
change, like, regardless of thevalue of the dollar, they can

(01:02:57):
increase their profit margins byincreasing their price. And even
if that's only by a couple ofbucks here and there, that still
overall can be a pretty massivepercentage, depending on what
the majority of their policiesare. But like, if you look at
some of their products, likevariable, universal life, or

(01:03:17):
indexed universal life, theyalready take a cut of the
investment that that person ismaking. And this is just kind of
like another way that they cando it is by dropping like on a
on an IUL, they could drop thatceiling from say, 9% to 7%.
Moving forward, and let's assumethat the market is continuing

(01:03:37):
its current trajectory, they'regonna make an additional 2% on
that money that's invested. Soit's, it's kind of like any
product is, at least where I sitis they will find a way to
survive. I don't know howthey're gonna go about, I guess,
increasing their customer base,because like I said, it should

(01:03:59):
be needs based. It shouldn't bejust a salesman saying you need
life insurance, but it's gonnahappen, we're gonna see kind of
like a vicious cycle. I mean, welive in Colorado, or some of us
live in Colorado, where I mean,my house price is skyrocketed.

(01:04:19):
My first house I bought, went upby like, 30%, over four years,
and I was able to sell that buya new house, and it's already
gone up by 10% in a year. So, Imean, you look at that cost. But
the reality is, is that's notpermanent. It's not going to
stay like that. Just like thesebaby. These baby boomers that
sounded so millennial of me, buteventually, there will be too

(01:04:44):
many houses for people. Granted,it's not going to be next year.
It's not going to be 20 yearsfrom now. But it will eventually
change like it will ebb and itwill flow and as it does that,
you're going to see an increasein need for that. like life
insurance, and this is whereit's going to get more
profitable, I think for theinsurance companies is the 22

(01:05:07):
year olds aren't buying houseslike they once were. But they're
gonna buy them when they're 35.
And when they're 35, theinsurance companies are taking
more risk, and what's associatedwith that risk is a higher cost
to the consumer. They're likely,I mean, they're still very
unlikely to pay out on most oftheir policies, depending on the

(01:05:27):
type of policy and the ones thatare guaranteed to pay out like a
whole life and indexed universallife or variable life stuff like
that. They're, they'reguaranteed to make money off of
that, or they wouldn't beselling it so on the products
that they could potentially belosing, or that they're unable
to sell right now, just becauseof the demographic that will
change. And when it does change,I think it's going to become

(01:05:47):
more profitable for theinsurance companies because
they're going to be able tocharge whatever they want at
that point. Because these peopledidn't get in when they were
young. And it was cheap. Andtheir financial adviser said,
hey, you know, you might want toconsider getting in before
you're 25. Because your ratesare going to change, hey, you
might want to consider gettingin before you're 30 Because your
rates are going to change. Well,they didn't. So the rates are

(01:06:08):
going to change, and it's goingto be more expensive. And the
associated expense is going tobe moved forward to the company
like that's, that's how I thinkit's going to happen. It's going
to be kind of like a big circle.
Do I think they'll cease toexist? Probably not. Do I think
that they're going to raiseprices? Most definitely. Do I

(01:06:28):
think that they're going to finda way to make more money off of
the products that are alreadyout there? Definitely. And do I
think that they'll figure out away to make more money when
people get older and startgetting into these products?
That's 100%. I can guaranteethat.

Yeah, I think those are all solid points.
Really

That's a great summary. I liked it.

Well, I mean, I'll tell you what I was, I was
thinking about kind of circlingback a little bit wrapping up, I
guess is probably the the rightterm. Sean, did you did you want
to touch on anything else herespecifically?

I'm good

Okay.
Cool. Well, then I want to Iwant to go ahead and kind of get
to wrapping up. But part of thewrapping up is I wanted to also
touch on things with Charlie alittle bit. Because as we're
wrapping up, we appreciateCharlie, meeting up with us and
going over all this stuff today,because I think we hit some some
solid subjects and had somesolid summaries, even in the

(01:07:24):
process. But you also do have apodcast that you're planning to
start that you have startedcoming up here soon. Do you want
to do want to kind of talk aboutthat self promote a little bit

all of my long winded summaries? I

Yes, you know, now now people can go Oh, but I
love to the sound of thosesummaries. So what? What's this
podcast that the long windedsummary guys going to be doing
here in the future?

Well, it's, it's alright, what is the
podcast? So it's gonna be it'snot out yet. It's still in
production. We've done the, Iguess, like first phase where we
started writing down kind oflike our key elements and what
we're going to talk about, butas you know, I'm a firefighter
paramedic. So I have a differentoutlook on a lot of things than

(01:08:08):
I think, some people and it justa different perspective,
different life experiences,stuff like that. And then my
buddy, who I've known for, ever,is a police officer in
California. And so he hasdifferent experiences than I do,
and usually most everyone, and Ithink that some of our lifestyle

(01:08:31):
aspects have contributed to ourability to parent and what we do
as fathers. So what our podcastis, we're gonna call it code
four fathers. So keep your eyeout. We already have the Twitter
handle and the Instagram and allthat stuff. So if you're trying
to snake it, good luck.

(01:08:51):
Hopefully, it'll be out by thetime this podcast releases
anyway,

in July,

in July. So, so yes, because I'm gonna be way
faster at editing than Chris.

That's not true.

No, it's not true at all. I don't know what I'm
doing. But, but the podcast isbasically going to be two first
responders kind of talking aboutparenting. And there's obviously
a lot of parenting podcasts outthere. But this one's going to
be different, because this oneisn't going to be all sunshine
and rainbows. It's not going tobe all happiness and all my
babies the best and all thatstuff. A lot of it's going to be

(01:09:22):
talking about kind of some ofthe hurdles that we've
experienced as newer parents,and what we've done to overcome
them, and what our jobs have hadas far as an impact on what we
do as parents. So just to addone more thing to my plate.
That's another thing that we'vegotten in the works, but it

(01:09:44):
really is going to be aparenting podcast for everyone.
Obviously, we are going to be alittle bit geared more towards
fathers. Whether you're a firstresponder or not, hopefully
everything will apply to you.
I'm sure you can hear my kids inthe background just like doing
their thing.

Shameless plug with the Kids in the background

shameless plug with the kids in the background.
But we basically created idealsbased on what we do as first
responders and kind of thedifferent. I don't even know
like, I wouldn't call it anideal. But like, as a, as a
firefighter, I look at things alittle bit differently. I'm very
much a type A personality, andit plays into what I do for a

(01:10:25):
living. And I transition a lotof those aspects to home, which
can be healthy and unhealthy.
And we're going to talk aboutthat.
And

I understand Yeah,

but, but it also allows me kind of a different
view on parenting. And so it'skind of just our way of getting
it out there that not everythinghas to be HGTV and Instagram,
happy puppies, babies, all thatstuff. That there there are some
downsides. There are someupsides there are some things
that we've experienced that havehelped us career wise as

(01:10:56):
parents, and we want to makesure that we share them with
everyone. Plus, it'll be fun.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think that'd be really
cool. I'm looking forward to itpersonally. Okay, cool. Well, so
look out for it for for codefour, I'm sorry, code four

code four fathers.

Okay, look out for it. Code four fathers.
That'll be coming to,

as the non firefighter in the group is code
four something in particular, or

for the civilian here,

nerd.

It's the code that's pretty widely used, not
everywhere, but very widely usedas the all clear everything is
okay. So if they call you on theradio and ask for a status
check, and you say code fourthey say, everything is clear,
I'm safe, everything is good.
And that's

Gotcha.

The nod to it

Thank you for that,

you know, there there might be some crazy things
happening. But you know, rightnow, everything's code four

Yeah, we smooth, right. It's also a play on
words. We haven't. I mean, wehaven't finalized it, but we're
creating it now. Like the 10commandments, and I don't want
to put a number on it. But it'sactually a code four fathers. So
like, to live by. But it is codeand then the number 4 fathers.
Because we're super cool. Andlike play on words. And he's a

(01:12:19):
cop, and he's always like, I'm,code four brother, like,use
English stupid. No, he's neveractually said that, but I really
hope that makes it into thispodcast, so
he can hear that. Butyeah, so we've actually created
a code to live by. And it's justdifferent tenets that allow us

(01:12:40):
to be better fathers, and toovercome a lot of the hardship
that our careers have put on uson our home life. And, you know,
it's not just first respondersthat struggle at home, or have
these hurdles that we have toget over. Everybody has
struggles. And so this is justkind of some rules that we live
by, to make sure that we'realways putting our kids and our
families first, just like we puteverybody else first, when we're

(01:13:01):
work, we want to make sure that,you know, our families are
coming first at home. So it's,it is the code four fathers by
the code for fathers,

you know, you know, what you should do is you
should do like

patent pending, copyright?

So, you should do like, sub codes within the code.
So, like, you know, not, youknow, I understand not 10
commandments or whatever, butlike, you know, the, the the
10th code is to not sweat thesmall stuff. But then you have
an episode where you talk about,sometimes the small stuff is
those sleepless nights, and thatwas the third thing you talked

(01:13:37):
about in the 10th of notsweating the small stuff like
my, my 10 Three, my code 10Three is really wearing on me
right now. Like, oh, man, yougot to get some more sleep.

You really need a 10 one brother. It's funny you
said that, because that is oneof them.

Oh, that's great.

You nailed it.

Well, it's because I trie to not sweat
the small stuff and tried tostay code four brother.

You live the life brother.

Cool. All right.
Well, then, let me let me wrapthis up. Thank you again, Mr.
Charlie, for joining us out heretoday and helping us put a a
bonus button. I was gonna sayput a button but it's really
like a bonus button, bonusepisode bonus button on to the
season and kind of knocking thisout and finishing out with us. I
appreciate it. And appreciateyour time with us today.

Happy to be here.

And

It was great having you, lots of good information.

Yeah, it really was.

I'm super happy that I got to be on the podcast
because I'm a truth aboutinvesting back to basics nerd.

Yeah, at least our number two fan. Maybe two,

I think is what's his name, John. The guy that
runs around to the libraries anddownloads it 20 times I'm pretty
sure but I've got John beat

yeah, all right.
John, got your work cut out foryou,

Bring it on John.

Well, thank you again, everybody for coming out
and listening to us. Weappreciate you hope these were
more tools for the toolbox. Andthank you for taking the time to
want to learn how to betteryourselves. And thank you for
listening to the truth aboutinvesting back to basics. My
name is Chris Holling.

I'm Sean Cooper

and our guest with us,

Charlie Coyle,

and we will catch you on the next episode the next
season of The Truth aboutinvesting back to basics.
Podcast Disclaimer, disclaimer.
The disclaimer following thisdisclaimer, is the disclaimer
that is required for thispodcast to be up and running and
fully functioning and movingforward. This is going to be the
same disclaimer that you willhear in each one of our

(01:15:50):
episodes. We hope you enjoy itjust as much as we enjoyed
making it. All content on thispodcast and accompanying
transcript is for informationalpurposes only. Opinions
expressed herein by Sean Cooperare solely those of fit
financial consulting, LLC unlessotherwise specifically cited.
Chris Holling and Charlie Coyleare not affiliated with fit

(01:16:14):
financial consulting, LLC. Nordo the views expressed by Chris
Holling or Charlie Coylerepresent the views of fit
financial consulting, LLC. Thispodcast is intended to be used
in its entirety. Any other usebeyond its author's intent,
distribution or copying of thecontents of this podcast is
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(01:16:35):
legal accounting or tax advice,and is for informational
purposes only. All informationor ideas provided should be
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This podcast may reference linksto websites for the convenience
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(01:16:57):
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(01:17:19):
statute, follow up orindividualized responses to
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(01:17:41):
broker, dealer, investmentadvisor, or other
representatives a consumersshould contact their state
securities administrator. Thankyou. And good night.

Yeah, are you going to cut out all these
spikes then

maybe I'll consider it

It's almost fun at this point,

I might just leave it at this point.

I out of all the times you said this is going to
be a nightmare to edit. That'swhy I keep doing this and going
on. Because it's fun for me.

As Sean experiences sometimes he does
that. And then he remains theantagonist in the recording. And
I say so maybe I'll just leaveit and goes, Yeah, sure,
whatever.

Sometimes I really do just disappear
completely.

That's true.

So I want you to know that through that whole
exchange, part of me juststarted, like, in my head. I was
like I was just gonna say andI'm Charlie Coyle and just like,
make it really hard for you toedit

It would have matched up and it's going to be
great too, because you youwouldn't even know. Like, I
tried to mess with him so hard.

I'm Charlie Koyle.

I'll see you already told me you already did
it. You already did the I'mCharlie Koyle

and I'm Charlie Koyle.
I'm Charlie Koyle. You're gonnahave seven different ones to
pick from.

I see how it is

Charlie Koyle

that you will have to edit out.

Oh, Sean, with his standards.

Well, yeah, you can't put that in there. Well,

I mean, says you I can't do anything once.

I'm not in control. And I'm Charlie Koyle.
Well, I just want to know ifeverything I said was in line
with everything you guys talkedabout in your previous episodes,
or if I just totallycontradicted everything?

No, no, it was in line. It was very
much in line. I just, ifsomebody listened to it, and
then they're like, Charlie,you're repeating what they just
said.

I thought you listened,

yeah, exactly.

I'm wicked Smart.
Sean's wicked smart Chris isthere.

wicked smart Marginally,
marginally marginally present.

I'm well

Yeah, it's gonna be a nice transition into the
next season. Actually, I knowWe're gonna touch on Social
Security. So it'll be a nicelittle

Taste test to the season I hope.

Maybe depends on how confused I get

Chris gets nervous every time I'm like, oh, that's
gonna be an episode two. Itmight be five episodes.

Let me tell you something Charlie, okay, this,
this this may not even make itinto our recording, but this is
exactly how Season Fiveappeared. Said hey, looks like
we've got to talk about lifeinsurance. Do you? Do you want
to do an episode of that? Nah,it's gonna be more than an
episode. Okay, well, we can dotwo episodes. No we should do a
season we should do a what? And,and then we and then we did a

(01:20:41):
season of life insurance, which

And annuities

and annuities Well, that's what he said to his
he's like, Yeah, I mean, I guesswe can, we can narrow it down to
like five.

Yeah, Annuities are technically an
insurance product.

Exactly. Which is why it fit into the

It did fit

season. Yeah, it fit it fits.

But it's not like traditional insurance. All
right. Well, right.

True

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