Bonus with Phylecia Jones!: How to Budget Your Business (Part 1 of 2)

Episode Transcript
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Chris Holling (00:00):
Whatever,

Phylecia Jones (00:01):
probably not what Sean wanted to talk about.
So,

you know, I don't care

Sean Cooper (00:04):
that's just further proof that I'm not the
entertaining one of this group

I don't care what Sean want's like, he's, he's got
this agenda. Like, let's talkabout this and this makes sense.
And I go Yeah, you got it, dude.
And then I we got we got dadjokes there's I need to do some
dad jokes in here somewhere

dad jokes. Wow.

That's like par for the course. Actually.

Yeah, I don't have any of those.

Yeah, well,

yeah, that's how we started out a lot of them.
Then I sit here staring blanklyat the microphone after he
shares them.

Yes, that's accurate. But you know, plot
twist. That's what he was gonnado. Anyway. So

I mean, talk about the the financial advice
around cuffing season.

Jeez. That's a.
You know? I? I don't know. No,I'm just babbling. Okay, hold
on. Let's find that thing. Got.
Sean already throws me offenough. Now I have some other
squirrel in here. How do you

gotta be professional?

No, would, Yes.
Okay, so professionally. How doyou stop a dog from barking in
the back of a car?

I have no idea.

You put him in the front.

really helpful because now he's barking in the
front of the car.

I got one for you.

Oh, you have one for me. I I don't know

got one. I got one for you. What do you call a
reath full of $100 bills?
Areatha Franklin

Sean why can't you be funny like that?

Because that's why you guys are here. I'm just a
numbers guy. I know my role

What else have I got in here? Yesterday I gave up
my seat on the bus for a blindperson. Today I lost my job as a
bus driver.

Oh my gosh, Have y'all seen a new movie
constipation?

No,

no,

don't worry.
It's not out yet.

Oh my god. I you know, it doesn't even matter cuz
I don't think I'd even give acrap about it anyway.

I think this is the entire show. This is good.

Thanks for joining us this this solid no

Introduce the show

this Well, this is this is legit. What happens
we do this for a minute and theneventually I wish we could have
her introduced. I'm also allover the place. So I went to bed
two last night

partying?

and no, I was at the station.

Firefighter

Station? Oh, you're a firefighter.

I'm a firefighter.

Oh, look at you.
You do calendars and stuff?

You know I I'm not going to privy that
information to the entire World.

I have a calendar.

Like that's weird. I've got your calendar
right here. No, so by trade,firefighter paramedic and I you
know what I did? Okay. The firstpart is totally my fault. We
watched we were trying to watcha movie while we were waiting
for calls last night and thenduring the movie, I fell asleep
for like an hour because we hada lul and it was great. But then

(03:33):
I woke up and I had taken anhour nap. And so then I just
couldn't fall back asleep. Andso then I crashed at like two
but then we got a call at aboutfour o'clock this morning and we
delivered a baby so

Wow, look at you

that took up the rest of my shift. I know

Look at you, bringing life into the world.

Yeah, there was there was this moment where
after everything had calmed andsettled and I walked out of the
hospital you heard this?
Naheeahnah.

Oh cool. What did you do last night Sean

Sean

I slept

see what I have to deal with? lazy
just regular people.

That's right.

No it was it was it was cool. That was a my
fourth that I've delivered butit was the first one I've
delivered in the back of anambulance so that was a new one
for me. I've always done it thehouse. We we tried to drive to
the hospital fast and it didn'twork.

Life Bringer and calendar person look at you.

Allegedly.

Oh no. So fancy.

But that's why I'm artificially stimulated. At
the moment caffeine. Redbull.
We're not sponsored by RedbullAll right, fine. Well, so the
good news is, is we don't have abad. We don't have a plan. The
bad news is we don't we don'thave a plan. So,

okay.

We could we could just start this off and let's
see where the wind blows us.
Yeah. Yeah, everybody.

Yeah.

Cool with me.
I'm just the guest.

Okay, well, guest Are you gonna? Are you gonna
introduce us? Oh, I'd be sopleased, if you like knew how to
introduce us like, because thenyou'd be like a super fan.

You can send me the thing and I can read it.

There's no thing.

I don't even do I own introduction.

All right, well, I guess I'll do it, because I
tend to do it. Well. Welcome,ladies and gentlemen, to another
episode of the truth aboutinvesting. Back to Basics.

(06:09):
My name is Chris Holling.

And I'm Sean Cooper. And today I'm taking
this one.

Wow.

That's right.

You could have at least warned me.

Well, nope just going to talk over you

That's insulting.

just going to steal it.

Don't mind me, I'll sit. I'll sit over here.
Don't worry about me. Hope youthing goes well Sean

that's right.
Have fun. See you later. today.
Yeah, that's right. Today, wehave a special guest Phylecia
Jones.

Hi

Hi Chris.

Don't mind me

That's right. So Phylecia is actually the lead
researcher and founder of I findyou close, which I'll have her
talk about a little bit later.
When Phylecia and I first met.
She was actually the founder ofKeep Up with Mrs. Jones.

Yeah,

as a budgetologist.
Which is why we we synced rightaway because, you know,
budgeting and numbers and

nerds.

Yes.

I don't geek out about budgeting at all.

I know. But she she is the nerd that can also be
entertaining. And I that's whereI fall flat. So

your words, not mine.

But at this point is she, you know, has been an
international speaker been onTEDx a couple different times.
And that's why we have her ontoday is for both those things.
First off to hopefully tell us alittle bit about or a lot a bit
about budgeting for businesses.
And because that's where wherewe kind of started our

(07:53):
relationship is she teachesbusiness owners how to pay
themselves first. And thenhopefully she can teach us a
little bit about public speakingand, and that sort of thing for
those who are interested aswell. And show us a thing or two
about how much we're doing wronghere. So,

Sean,

yeah,

you told me that you were bringing on a guest not
somebody that it's like actuallyestablished in a realm like I
was I was hoping this is like aneighbor's like yeah, they like
numbers and like, cool. I'm notintimidated. And here we are,
like,

no need to be intimidated.

newsflash, you should be

I was only on national television giving Money
Advice.

Well Good. Yes.
So with the I see how I'mforming my thoughts as I speak.
It's a talent

It's a skill.

Actually, Chris, is really good with the improv
since he's done quite a fewdifferent comedy shows he and my
wife Anastasia we're both withAdams mMstery Playhouse right
doing Y

Yes,

Murder mystery dinners mostly improv

Yes.

Those are a good time?

Yes.

Wow, I just keep learning more about you you help
deliver babies you do calendars.
You do in improve, see

it's no big deal.
And just, you know, just got toget to get out there and do
God's work sometimes it's hard.
Yeah. Well, look, here's here'sthe deal. I'm actually
legitimately I'm excited to haveyou on here because the we do
have like a loose ish wet, wetweapons plan. Where you pull out

(09:40):
the big guns God I need sleepwith an episode plan. And
normally we at least have atopic and the only topic was
your name in here, somewhere inthere. So we do kind of have
free rein with this.

Business budgeting was the the Oh arching concept
for

Yeah,

For Phylecia here since she is our expert of the
group when it comes to abusiness budgeting

well and and also full circle for for, you know
what we say all three peoplelistening to us that we
originally were going to createthis this is this is sort of a
bonus episode because we'vewe've wrapped up season three
and this is season three,surprise. And that's because we

(10:30):
wanted to do a form of a q&atype thing. And when you were
talking to Sean about like, Hey,can you take some time and
adjust? adjust address? having astroke? Apparently, I'm
addressing what do you do aboutbudgeting for business? And Sean

(10:51):
said we should we should talkabout that, because we
apparently just kind of glazedover it. I said, Yeah, and I
know nothing about it. And thenwe decided to just have you on
and then and then that's that'swhere we're at. So this, this is
our q&a day where you are the Qand the A, which is kind of how

(11:12):
I like to operate. You know,like I'm talking to somebody,
I'm like, Hey, how are you?
Because I'm great. You know,gonna answer my own questions?
And so I'm excited.

Okay, well, I'm here any questions you have? So
let me know where we're going.

Okay, cool.

Excited.

So we have this, this might be putting you on the
spot. And if it's if it's too onthe spot, I'll delete it. But
have you listened to any of ourpersonal finance budgeting thing
like the stretch with Jarmarthat we were referencing
earlier? Have you listened tothat at all by chance?

I listened to the shows on inflation.

Okay, okay.
That's fair.

Yeah.

That was a fun one, I enjoyed that one.

The reason I was curious about Yeah, that was
that was good. And maybe

what did you think?
I mean, I can talk all day aboutwhat I think about us. But

Me too, mainly what I think about me, but

it was a good show. It was a good show.
Because I was just curious,because you know, everything is
going on in the world. And theywere screaming about inflation.
And then that got me thinkingabout savings. And should I
invest it all of that kind ofstuff. So it made it's it was a
dinner conversation at home.

God. She just like described our whole second
seasons. Great.

Yeah.

I Like that.

I loved it.

Cool. No, I'm glad the reason I was curious
about that was because I I kindof wondered, for my sake,
because my realm is is the thepersonal finance, personal home
budgeting and kind of makingyour paycheck work and how to
how to get your stuff straightin order to invest. And then
once you get the investing stufffigured out, then I go talk to

(12:49):
Sean. And I was curious, wherewere some of those common
grounds sat between a personalfinance budget versus a business
budget, because I've built two,two base bids, business budgets
for somebody that was startingout for a business, and I really

(13:13):
just treated it as a lot of mymy own personal finance
approaches, which I'm surethere's a better way to go about
doing it than I was. But I wascurious, where where some of
those familiarities were and,and stuff. How's that for a
description? stuff?

Perfect.

Appreciate that.

Yeah.
Well, that's a good, that'sactually a really good question.
Because my approach when I firststarted off, doing money
coaching and talking to businessowners about budgeting, it was
really to like solo businessowners because everybody's
walking this very thin line ofpersonal and business finances,
and I kind of do exactly thesame way you were doing. The

(13:56):
only difference when you are abusiness owner, especially a
solo business owner you'restarting out is you don't know
where the income is coming from.
And that's probably thedifference with personal
finance, if we have jobs, if wehave jobs, we kind of know that
there is going to be some moneycoming in. But with the business
side, you still have to generatethat money and you got to figure
that out and that's why it goesback and forth. So much between

(14:19):
how much you're spending howmuch is coming in and you have
to do the work to make suremoney is coming in. So that so I
don't treat it differently. It'sjust we just have that unknown
factor sometimes when it when itcomes to being a business owner.
And that's the income part.

Okay. And that makes sense. And I this this may
be what you're saying to me butpart of the the way that I
really tried to operate both butmainly on a personal finance
side to because it was a hugegoal for me that really changed
a lot for me and I think workswell for business comes on the
front of operating. Essentiallya month ahead is what we try to
treat it as Where? So forinstance, this month, I still

(15:03):
need to do the numbers for whatis it June? See, I don't even
know what month it is. So inJune I, I sit down and I
evaluate, okay, well, how muchdid I make in May, and then
that's the money that I use forJune because then it's, it's
never money that hasn't alreadybeen acquired, I'm not expecting
it to show up in this nextpaycheck, even though, through

(15:25):
the career that I have, I get apretty regular paycheck. I'm
fortunate to have that security.
But it's important to have thatto me, in case there's a
fluctuation or especially tosomebody that might be an
artist, a small business owner,a, somebody that's on commission
or a variation there, becausethen they can go, what did I
make in May, and you have feastand famines type of thing. And

(15:46):
so that, that, to me, is kind ofhow I built those previous
business plans that I've donebefore, which kind of sounds
like, that's what you're talkingabout is that you, you need to
organize knowing where thatincome is, is coming from, and
then once you do, then you canoperate from there,

you will Yes, you're going to do that. But
also remember, with a business,you are operating in risk as
well, because you have to takethat bigger step to you know,
increase that marketing budget,and what is the return on
investment for all of this otherwork, you know, in hopes that it
brings in income. And when itdoes come to business? Yes, you
can operate one month inadvance, especially after you

(16:29):
know, a pandemic year, a lot ofpeople had to go back to
operating probably just onemonth out or a couple of months.
But the other thing is you stillwant to do a little bit of
forecasting for you know, threeand six months just to see
what's going to be happeningwith your income and all of this
other energy that you need toput around the business side.

(16:50):
But I do like that I do. Likeyesterday was June 1, I go back
and look at all of what happenedin May how much money I spent,
you know how much money came in.
And then that helps me to createthe goals for what I need to do
in June as well. So you're kindof just going back and forth.
And just operating as a CFO onon every level. And for for the

(17:10):
most part, you're doing italmost every week. And that's
one thing you can do withpersonal finances, you can kind
of do it on a monthly basis. Butsometimes with business, you may
have to get in there every weekto see what is going on.

Okay, yeah, absolutely. That makes sense.
That's, uh, that's somethingthat I was able to kind of see.
Really, it took about coming upon a year that I was operating
with the very first businessbudget that I built, where after
that course of the year, becauseit's it was retail, essentially,
then we were able to see, okay,well, Christmas time is coming
up. And we know that we do wellduring these months. And then we

(17:48):
have this slow time in thesummer and then in this stretch.
And and that's back when I wasstill in Texas at the time,
because you know, ain't nobodywalking outside in Texas, in
June to go walk the streetmarkets. And so we were able to
kind of see that as since nowwe've seen what what the average
expenses are, since now we knowwhere where the bulk of these

(18:11):
things are gonna come from, thenwe can kind of operate as a,
hey, we're we've got this comingup, we know that the summer
tends to be a little slower, wecan try to set aside X amount or
we can try to take care of someextra expenses so that they're
not as daunting when that timerolls around. With that, that
future forecasting. Really, Ithink the three to six month out

(18:32):
is a good estimate of that. Ithink that's a that's a great
point.

Yeah, we have to kind of always stay ahead of the
game when it comes to runningthis business and especially
coming out of out of thepandemic year for people who
took a few of those, you know,the EIDL loans and PPP loans.
And if you got the pandemicunemployment, you pretty much
had to go down to managing yourfinances monthly. I mean, sorry,

(18:57):
weekly, because you had toreport it to someone. So, you
know, things got a little bitmore real for a lot of business
owners. And you know, in thebeautiful world, we're always on
top of it. But the reality is alot of business owners are just
trying to get by and kind ofdon't pay attention to their
money as often as they should.
which is unfortunate.

Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think that there,there's a lot of cases where
many people are guilty of that.
And that's, that's that's kindof the theme. I think we've
picked up over over over thelast year. Sean, is that its

go ahead. You were going to summarize your theme.

Yeah, yeah. My life is just one big summary.
It's fine. No, yeah. The, thetheme that I think we've kind of
picked up on has been, you know,do do you do you and do what
works best for you. And hereHere are the tools that we have
available to you to to be ableto operate on those things and,

(19:57):
and do whatever it is that'simportant to you. So long as
You're aware of what's happeningso long as you're aware of
things that are going to beupcoming. And when you're
referencing those upcomingchanges and expenses, and even
when you're trying to get by,it's, it's okay to have those
times where you're just reallyhanging on for dear life and
kind of white knuckling it. Butas long as you're aware that

(20:19):
that's what's happening and whattrajectory you have, in order to
kind of adjust that rather thanjust have that be the new norm
for you, I think is, isimportant.

I agree with you, I can, but I also disagree.
After last year, I don't think alot of us could, was in a
position two Do you know, do youbecause it's just got very real
for a lot of business owners.
And, and it was, um, it got, Iguess, it got very serious
where, okay, you couldn't justlet your business finances, you
know, just fly to the wind. Andjust, you know, and be aware, so

(20:53):
this was, I actually think itwas a good year for some
businesses, because this was thefirst time that they actually
probably sat down and had to dothe projections, the
forecasting, making those harddecisions on hiring, firing,
cutting expenses, whereas in,you know, pre, you know,

(21:13):
historic days, you know, 2019,we could, you know, as long as
the income was coming in, we cankind of just figure it out, but,
and I know, a lot of businessesare still still struggling,
coming out of out of last year,but hopefully everybody is
seeing what they can do, andmaybe taking a few more risk so
that we can bring in a littlebit more income, you know,

(21:34):
before the end of the year.

Yeah, absolutely.
I could definitely see that.

So what are some of the steps that you recommend
business owners take, as they,you know, if it's their first
look at trying to take controlof their finances, their
business finances?

Okay, so when it comes to the business finances,
you, you really do have to puton that CFO hat and stay on top
of it. I say the first thingwith brand new businesses, and
it really depends on where youare, is put it on the calendar,
when you're going to manage yourmoney. That's the first thing
because a lot of us, we justkind of Oh, just do it on a
Sunday night. And then you getvery frustrated, you know,

(22:18):
looking at everything, I alwaysrecommend looking at your
numbers on the first and the15th of each month. And I always
say do it before 6am and 9am.
And the reason why is becauseyou can actually do something
about your numbers between 6amand 9am. In the morning, if
you're seeing that you don'thave enough income coming in and
not enough revenue, you can goout there and start making some

(22:40):
sales calls. Or you can makesome adjustment adjustments and
negotiations with people. I tellpeople never to do money after
six o'clock. Because usuallywe're either tipsy hangry,
hungry, mad at somebody. So justdon't do numbers at nighttime.
Yeah, and don't do it at 10o'clock. Because then you know,

(23:01):
if you're in business withsomebody or with your with a
spouse or partner, that's whenyou start calling people at 10
o'clock, like, Hey, did youspend like $5 on something and
they're like, What are youtalking about. And next thing,
you know, everything blows up.
So I always recommend do yournumbers on the first and 15th of
each month. And give yourselfone hour, you don't have to

(23:23):
solve all the world's problems,but you do need to be aware of
what's going on. And then thesecond thing is just really pay
attention to your expenses, youneed to know how much is going
out because it's so easy to getcaught up in all these monthly
expenses and all these thingsand subscriptions that we sign
up for to help us grow ourbusiness. And so we need to pay

(23:45):
attention to that. And then ofcourse, with any business, you
have to figure out how you'regoing to generate revenue on a
regular basis each month.

Do you find that the fixed expenses or the
variable expenses tend to bemore of the issue for most
businesses?

Oh, gosh, it's

you reference like those monthly subscriptions
adding up?

Yeah,

Which I categorize as fixed, but not necessarily
necessary. So

that it but you brought up something good, you
have to determine what isnecessary for your business.
Because when we're new inbusiness, everything seems
necessary. You know, like weneed Canva we need MailChimp, we
need all these different thingsbecause they're necessary. But
over time, it'll it'll play outwhat what we're actually using
and who we're using. So Iactually think those variable

(24:38):
and fixed expenses are is goingto take a while to figure out
which ones need to stay andwhich ones need to go. For me
like my fixed expenses are thelabor because I can't do
anything without them. So that'sa big time, fixed expense for
me, and then I've gotten it downto a point where I know exactly

(24:59):
what I need to run this businessand then some of the other
things I can let go at any timeand it won't hurt me. So I think
it all depends on where you arein business. And unfortunately,
as business owners, we do haveshiny object syndrome. And when
we see something's like, Ooh,it's gonna make me a million
dollars, you know, and then wetend to buy it, or we buy these

(25:23):
courses, all these things. So Ithink sometimes we have to kind
of manage all of that at thesame time.

Right? Because anything that goes out the door.

I think she's taking a jab at me, Sean, I
think that was a personal attackon me.

No, no, of course not.

This guy looks like somebody that would be
caught by something shiny.

Always. No, I was gonna, I was gonna say, though,
shoot, now I lost my train, jeezChris

Two hits, I hit you, you hit the floor.

We talked about variable and fixed expenses?

Oh, no, I was gonna say that. You know, you were
talking about kind of thatbalance. And you're talking
about things that areinvestments in the business that
have that potential ROI, or thereturn on investment. But on the
flip side of that, anything thatyou pay out, is $1, that you
cannot pay yourself.

Exactly. And that's where everything that's
going out is not $1 toward you.
So you got to work that in aswell into that budget of what's
going out. And this is where itgets so stressful being a
business owner is that you stillhave to figure out what their
revenue is, because that's gonnadictate just about everything,
that's gonna, that's going tohappen. So what happens when we

(26:40):
do our budgets, a lot of timewhen we are in this mode of
just, let's build, let's build,let's build, and let's do all
the things that will make us amillion dollars in three in 30
seconds. Sometimes we forgetthat we might have personal
finances at home. So usually,there's either a partner or a
spouse, or rent a dog or catthat needs to be fed. So we have

(27:04):
to remember to do that at thesame time. So I always recommend
making sure we have that lineitem where we pay ourselves.
Even if it's just $5. You haveto get used to it, you know,
being auto drafted out of yourbusiness bank account, and into
your personal account so thatyou this is not a foreign
concept to you about payingyourself on a regular basis,

(27:27):
because I'm pretty certain youstill have rent to pay. And you
typically Shouldn't youshouldn't pull that out of the
business to pay for all of thatstuff.

Yeah,

right.

Absolutely.

Yeah, you shouldn't. But the reality is, I
know how a lot of people managebusiness.

Right? Right.
Absolutely. I get that. I had athought and then I saw something
shiny. You know, I don't know.
I'm

just ruining thoughts today.

Wondering what would you say are some of the
other most common mistakes, ifyou will, that you see business
owners making with their, their,their business, budgeting their
business finances,

the biggest mistake is just not paying
attention to it. And that'swhere we always get in trouble
by not paying attention, weassume our, if we have hired a
bookkeeper, we assume they knowwhat's going on, or we assume
the accountant will fix it. AndI've tried to tell people, you
know, accounting and bookkeepingare two completely different

(28:38):
things, there needs to besomebody in the middle, that's
actually, you know,orchestrating what is happening
with all of all of thesefinances. So the biggest thing
is, a lot of us just don't payattention enough to what's going
on. And the other is, we areonly depending on what's coming
in. And the way a lot ofbusinesses operate is well, I

(29:00):
got a client, I just got $5,000for them. So now I have $5,000
to spend. And it's just youknow, and we forget that, you
know, once we get a client$5,000 we still have cost of
goods, you know, all of thoseother things that go out before
we can start paying otherexpenses. And you know, and it
may never even turn into profit.
And I and I have seen that a lotover the last few years where

(29:24):
people will think well, all Ineed is a $10,000 client and I
can just go pay for this andit's like yeah, it doesn't
really work that way.

No, I think that's a good point. Because
it's a to me on on the personalside, because that's that's
where I'm able to relate thesethings is that if you are able
to to allocate, okay, well thisthis is going towards like,
what's a good example? You areyou're getting a standard
employee w two salary that'scoming to you but in order to

(29:57):
get to that job, you're havingto pay for the fuel. The car
insurance the car, just likejust the transport to get there,
because that's the way that yourjob is set up. And if you take
that paycheck, and it's going tothings that aren't those things,
then you you aren't going to beable to perpetuate maintaining
that income that's going to comeyour way. And, and to me it, it
operates the same way whereyou're making sure to have the

(30:19):
cost of goods, you're having allthese expenses handled. And then
once Once that is complete, andthe costs of labor, the cost of
goods, the cost of maybe evencustomer acquisition to get to

Yeah,

but however you want to look at those things.
Once those are paid for them.
That's literally your yourprofit margin. And then that's,
that's where you can go Okay, amI going to reinvest this? Am I
going to pay myself? Am I goingto do a combination of those
things? And I, I think that's athat's a great point.

Yeah.

Sean, what's a what's a business thing that
you've learned the hard way?
Like, you know, I get that she'sthe fancy guest here. And I've
told her that 5000 times, butI'm sure you

You can say it more. I'm okay with that

5001 times. Hey guest your, you know, you're so
great. I just

I appreciate you

wouldn't even wouldn't even know what to do
with myself. If you weren't, youweren't here with us. Okay,
that's Sean. So what, what'swhat's, uh, what's something
that you came across that youweren't expecting? I'm curious
about this more personally, thananything else, because I know
you're just such a calculatedperson that I know, you're very

(31:28):
likely to, to look ahead and go,these are a bunch of things I
was expecting to see. But Ican't imagine you actually
calculated for all of them. Butyou know, maybe you're just this
insane human being that did justthat. Is there anything that
surprised you as you were kindof getting your business

Um, I don't know that I would say something that
started?
surprised me, I would say thatif I had to do it all over
again, or had the opportunity todo it all over again, there were
things that I definitely wouldhave done differently. And it
kind of stems goes back to whatI was bringing up with Phylecia
there earlier. And that is thatbalance between investing in the

(32:06):
business and being able to payyourself and that sort of thing.
So when I started, I set aside alarge chunk of change to to be
able to ride through quite a fewyears of basically not paying
myself and having thatexpectation upfront. And what I

(32:27):
would have done differently is Iwould have set aside a large
piece of that to actually investin the business. So as opposed
to being super ultra frugal withthe business and trying to make
it grow itself organically, Iwould have invested a lot more
into different methods forhelping it grow. And that goes

(32:52):
back to marketing. But in allhonesty, I still struggle with
that because I really hate a lotof aspects of marketing.
Largely. One of the biggest mybiggest encumbrances, if you
will, is marketing. Mostmarketing people don't speak in
my language. They they talkabout, yes, how much it's going

(33:16):
to cost. And they talk a biggame about how much how many
people you're going to getresponses from, but very few of
them can actually give youconcrete ROI information
upfront, even from a historicalstandpoint, for similar
businesses, and that drives mecrazy. So I'm very reluctant to
invest in something like that,even though that's what I

(33:40):
needed. And I don't know that Iwould have gone about it in the
traditional way, I think I wouldhave sought help in terms of
purchasing a practice and hiringother advisors much earlier is
the biggest difference, I wouldhave changed. So big, big lump

(34:00):
sum investments that could havepaid out much earlier. As
opposed to just me trying to goabout everything on my own.

I thought you were gonna say you're gonna work
on your advertisement bystanding outside with like one
of those hot dog costumes andlike, hey, this way

I did try

Don't be a wiener

a variety of different marketing things, you
know, the showing up ondifferent, you know, magazines
or things in stores and stufflike that. And honestly, it was
most of what I tried there wasgarbage. even tried the little

(34:44):
bit of marketing spend throughlike your Facebook or Google and
I didn't see much practicalreturn on investment there
either. But again, that all partof that depends on your business
and how you go about it. That'sjust been my experience so

well, you know, but that's the hard part about
running the business. And, youknow, the personal finance
knowledge that we have is veryuseful for running a business.
But we have to always put inthat risk factor to what are you
willing to do so that you cangenerate leads. And I think a
lot of us, I think the biggestthing I didn't realize starting

(35:23):
a business generating leads isbasically what I need to be
doing all the time. So how doyou, you know, very logical
brain, I don't want to spend alot of money because I want to
see that exact return oninvestment. Because I don't have
a lot of money to spend, but youkind of learn, you kind of do
need to spend this money. Andthat's where we get into this

(35:44):
little thing with, withbusiness, with business,
finances, and I love using allof the methods around personal
finance on business, but we haveto always account for that risk
factor of is, you know, what arewe doing? And is it worth the
money to spend it so that we cangrow is always a hard one. And

(36:04):
you always like, it's like 2020vision, like, Oh, I guess I you
know, should have just thrownmoney at it because it might
have worked, who knows?

Right? Right,

I get that entirely. And then that's,
that's kind of, we insertepisode x here that we talked
about it. But we had that time,when we were talking about
taking the like, English man, wehad, we had a time that we were

(36:35):
talking about how one of thethings that that I tried to do
that, to me, is just how I'mconnecting it. But where I'm
setting a certain amount of sideper month. That is my, my
general wealth building capcategory. That's, as we talked
about, in the episode,specifically, it was more of a,
the example I gave was kind of aventure capitalist side, when we

(36:57):
were talking about that buddy ofmine, that one time, you know,
it's fine just to go listen tothe episode, it's fine. And
that, to me sits into the samecategory where it's this, this
is going towards a purpose, thismoney is going towards the
building of this wealth, and ityou're going to miss every shot

(37:19):
you don't take. So it's it'sdefinitely worth taking those
steps and utilizing it for thatand being okay, with the fact
that while it's calculated, andyou're making the best choice
that you think you can, that ifthere is a lower return on
investment than you expected tosee, then you're kind of okay
with taking that money and, andincorporating it into that risk

(37:42):
in order to try and try and reapsome of the benefits from it
rather than just clinging on toyour money as tight as you can,
because you're concerned aboutjust losing it outright.

So along those lines, Phylecia, have you seen
is that purely trial and errorin your experience? Or are there
some kind of universal areasthat people find successful when
it comes to that ROI and, youknow, marketing or growing the
business?

I will say marketing is not my genius,
zone, I do think you have to doa little bit of trial and error.
And there are some tried andtrue things that have always
worked. You know, your salescalls, I mean, everybody hates
them, but it actually does work.
So we know those tried and truethings. And a lot of it does

(38:32):
come down to our energy, howmuch we're willing to put
ourselves out there. Because alot of us were just too scared,
a lot of us don't likerejection. And that's where we
get. That's where we get introuble in business. And so we
try some of these other methods.
And we have to just know thatsometimes what works for one

(38:53):
person may not necessarily workfor you. But at the same time,
you better figure out somethingotherwise, you're just bleeding
money on a regular basis withthis business. And I do think
people should try quite a fewthings. And, you know, one of
the things that I did was Iactually got out on stage and
started speaking, because Ididn't know how to do all of the

(39:15):
Facebook ads and all that otherstuff and, and sales calls, I
suck at sales call. So I neededa different way to convert
people. And so I started justgetting on stage and marketing.
I tried the podcast thing. Ican't say the podcast was like
the best thing for me. But I dothink you have to just put a lot

(39:35):
of energy into all of thesethings that you're going to try.
But you also got to give ittime. And that's where we kind
of hurt ourselves in business isthat we don't have patience.
It's like it's almost like we'renot aggressive enough. And we're
also not patient at the sametime, which sometimes conflicts
in our brains and keeps up keepus up at night. Way too long.

I can definitely see that. Yeah, and You talked
about that your method was, youknow, getting up on a stage and
being able to present to people.
And now you actually help otherpeople go that route as well.
Correct?

Yeah. So what I learned over the years from when
I started money coaching,started talking about budgeting
and all that stuff. A lot ofpeople would only ask me like,
well, how did you get on stageto speak? And I was like, well,
you don't need to get on stage,you need a budget. And people
are like, no, like, Okay. Allright, then. And that was just

(40:33):
one of those learning lessons offor me was to actually recognize
what was working and what wasn'tworking. And what I was doing
before it, it was working inthat it got me some of these
other gigs, you know, I got achance to get on stage quite
often got interviews, I got a TVgig out of it. But it wasn't

(40:53):
really working on the clientside. So I was like, okay, we
need to rethink this. And, andso I took a walk about in London
for my birthday a few years ago.
And I decided to just go aheadand into this other world of, of
researching and finding speakinggigs for people, because my
background, I was a, I was ascientist for the Navy. So I
just know how to find stuff. Soit just worked out. I was like,

(41:18):
I know how to find stuff. Don'task me anything else, because I
can do the math. And so it justkind of worked out. And I found
a model now. And that's theother thing about business, you
got to find a business modelthat works. So right now I run a
membership site, which, youknow, it only took, you know,
five years to figure out thatwas the best thing for me. How
much money I spent doing that,but but it's working out very

(41:43):
well now. And it's put me in acompletely different world when
it comes to business finances,because now I have labor. And
labor is so expensive.

Right?

I look at look at my profit and loss, like oh

Awesome.
my gosh, like, why am I payingyou this? And then I see things
This is this is completely offtopic. But we've been friends
like, okay, now I know why I'mpaying you this, like, I just
need a reminder of like, why amI paying you so much money. And,
and when you start getting laborand labor costs, things do get
even more real? Because now it'slike, well, gosh, I gotta pay
people. So I need to be in this,this lead generation mode of

(42:23):
bringing business in. So nowit's just, it's this just weird
little balance of I, you know,I've got to stay on top of the
numbers each week, make sure myexpenses are where they need to
be, so that I know exactlywhat's going out. And then being
able to evaluate, evaluate whenI'm ready to take a risk. And I
think sometimes in the beginningof our businesses, we're just so

(42:43):
for what, five, six years now.
And it wasn't until I read yourout there trying to do whatever
it takes that we don't get intothis kind of settled place of,
you know, I know everythingthat's coming in, I know
everything is coming out. Nowlet's start making some of these
huge risks and see what happenswith them.

(43:09):
bio that I realized you were ascientist for the US Navy. I
don't know if you could shareanything about it. What What did
that entail? Are you are youable to talk about that

It entailed science? Bro

No, I have to take you out if I talk about it,
no. So I went to college, and Igot a degree in computer
science. And I was recruited togo work at an Navy lab in San
Diego. So I grew up inBirmingham went to school in
Atlanta and went to the beachout in San Diego, and I was
there for 11 and a half yearsand I worked on I worked at a

(43:45):
quite on a bunch of differentprojects where I got to travel.
So I love traveling. So theywould just send me the Europe
because I was the young singleperson I was like, I'll go you
know, like, I don't care, likewhere am I going Republic of
Georgia. And like on theairplane like where's this?
Where am I going? Um, so I so Idid that for 11 and a half
years. And you know, I that'swhere I learned I had to learn

(44:08):
really quickly about personalfinance because, you know, gosh,
I think by the time I was 25 Iwas making like $100,000 a year.
And of course I'm single and Ilove to travel and it was like
oh passports and purses. Let'sdo this. then of course you
know then I eventually bought aplace in Southern California
right when the world was fallingapart. And it was and I had a

(44:34):
waterfall coming through theceiling which is never a good
thing if you own a home to seewater inside.

Yeah.

And at the same time the car went to the shop
and you know how you go and justget your tires rotated. And next
thing they find $3,000 worth ofother things that need to
happen.

Yeah, you got this. You got those a unicorn
that's jumping around in yourexhaust and.

It is like what is going on. So all of that
happened at the same time. And Iwas living with Living basically
paycheck to paycheck because,you know, I was you know,
yoloing life. And I was like,okay, something really has to
change where I had to get in youknow, get on top of the finances
and you know I, I took a projectin Nebraska that's how desperate

(45:15):
I was. And I was in Nebraskaworking at Offutt Air Force
Base.

I mean,

you know,

Nebraska didn't hit your whole travel enthusiasm
there.

No, I mean, after going like London, and you
know, I was in Spain, and thenit's like, oh, Nebraska at
Offutt Air Force Base. But oneof the things was I got to, you
know, bank in on a quite a quitea bit of per diem money. And at
the same time, I was goingthrough a short sale in Southern
California. So I was slightlyslightly homeless, where I had

(45:49):
to move in with my boyfriend.
Well, I had to move my cat inwith the boyfriend, so I had to
pay rent for her. Yeah, I had topay kitty rent for her to live
with him while I was back andforth, you know, between San
Diego and Nebraska. It was funtimes. But that's where I kind
of got real about all of thefinances started investing, and
was like, we're never doing thisever, ever again. So. So that's

(46:13):
so that's what I did. So I didthat. eventually got my master's
degree in engineering. And wedid a transfer and ended up in
Denver. And my husband, heworked in San Diego, he makes
video games for a living, so wedon't adult very well in his
house.

We should hang out. Well hang out, it'll be
great.

It's just the two of us. So he makes video
games. We have a dog. The catsno longer with us. But yeah,
it's just we're just hanging outhere in Colorado these days. So
yeah, so that was life in thebefore business life. Yeah.
Working for the Navy. So it waspretty cool. I do miss the
ocean.

Oh, yeah.

I could see that.

Yeah. Anastasia struggled with that a lot when
we were in Aurora so Yep.

Yeah, the ocean I some I have been able to go
back. Because I'm in Colorado.
So I've been able to go back andsee the ocean every year because
hubby gets to go back for theannual holiday party. And last
year was I was getting scaredbecause it was the first time I
was like, Oh my gosh, we're notgoing to be able to go back

(47:23):
because everybody's been workingfrom home. So we own an RV. And
I said you know what, I justwant to see the ocean before the
end of the year. We had somefriends who came to stay with us
and we went camping down inArizona. And then we did this
side trip. He was like I'm gonnatake you to San Diego to see the
ocean. I was there for threedays that I saw the ocean and I
was like that's all I need itand then we can leave and I had

(47:44):
a burrito so had to have aCalifornia burrito.

Got your fix in, huh?

I was like today years old when I realized a
California burrito is only a SanDiego thing so it makes sense
why everybody looks at me crazywhen I go to like a Mexican
place here. Asking for aCalifornia burrito.

what's what's unique about it because most
Californians I feel like they'rethey're jonesing for they're In
and Out Burger or something likethat. But California Burrito

Now everyone talks to talk about LA and their
taco. You haven't had to tacountil taco in LA

Oh, gosh. I hate LA
Cal Okay, so the Californiaburrito has basically the
difference. It has french friesin it.

dope.

Interesting. Okay.

I don't know, I love
it. And it's hard to get onehere.

So do you want what why can't you just throw
french fries in a burrito, then

you can

They ask if you want fries with pretty much
anything else.

But here, a lot of the burritos aren't wrapped.
They're like, Oh, not open face.
But you know, you get them on aplate and they smother them in
green chili, because I'd neverheard of green chili until I
moved to Colorado. But there iskind of like I guess it's like a
street burrito. You know, theywrap it and then they put
everything on the inside. Sowhen I'm here, I have to kind of
like walk through like, Can youput the french fries inside and

(49:09):
then you hear this wholediscussion going on? And then I
was like, can you wrap it infoil and they're like what is
wrong with this woman so so I'vejust learned to just wait until
I get back to San Diego to get aCalifornia burrito.

I had a I had a lengthy discussion when I was in
Texas about the differencebetween a taco and a burrito.
Turns out that the onlydifference is whether or not the
ends are closed. I finallyfigured that out. So if if
somebody is wrapping up yourColorado burrito that you're
referring to and there's thoseends are open. It's a Colorado

(49:45):
taco

It's a Colorado taco. It's only been a few
times in my life where peoplehave been able to identify where
I'm from based on food. When Iwas in San Francisco, I asked
for California burrito he waslike, do You live in San Diego
and I was like, wow. And thenthe one time I was in Texas, I

(50:07):
went to a barbecue place and Iasked for a hot link sandwich
and the guy was like, Are youfrom like Alabama or Tennessee?
I was like, wow, like I feellike you're seeing way through
me right now.

Yeah. Well, I I grew up eating like Kansas City
barbecue. And so when I wentdown to Texas, and I asked for
some pulled pork I borderlinegot thrown out

I'm not a Kansas City barbecue fan.

I am. I am

Southern style,

but Texas won me over. So that's that's all
right.

brisket is a thing down there

it is,

Oh my gosh

They almost threw me out.

I know. And this is so important to business
budgeting,

right?

Yes, absolutely.

business.
Butgeting

you gotta have fun. You gotta budget in the fun
too.

Dang it. I was gonna ask something. But you
know, that's that's my my themetoday.

Did I take us

Apprently, it doesn't help the memory huh?

Yeah,

I was thinking about burritos, man. Like,

I know everybody's hungry now.

Yeah.

Yeah, everybody go do a burrito. Can Can people
can can your listeners like takea photo and tag you? With their
burrito?

Yeah, but yeah, we're just so bad about social
media that,

okay, we're about to change that. So
everybody listening to this? Goout and get your burrito in
honor of this show. Make sureyou take a photo tag everybody
so we can see what you'reeating.

And tell us about how weird of a look you got when
you tried to get a Californiaburrito.

Outside of Southern California,

right. Yeah, San Diego people aren't aren't
allowed to play.

Yeah, they can.

No, no, they can't

They need to ask for green chili.

Yeah, they need to ask for green chili.

There we go, yeah.

Ask them to see if it happens the same way. It
happened to me in Texas whereyou go ask for a burrito. And
you ask them to smother it inchili. Let them look at you all
stupid. And then they'll they'llsmother it in that like Hormel
stuff.

I know, I knew that was going to happen.

I was heated.

Green Chili is definitely a thing here.

Oh, yeah.

I know. I know.
We were hoping to actually nothave to split this one up. But
we we honestly, we just had toomuch of a good time doing this
whole thing. And so we are goingto have a part two that is
coming out with Miss Phylecia.
And this is us splitting thisup. So now is the time a pseudo
intermission. Go get yourburrito that we're talking

(52:33):
about. Come back. Join us. We'regoing to have Part Two coming to
you just as soon as we can getit out to you, sorry. We've been
on such a hiatus for such awhile. But thanks for sticking
around. Thanks for coming backand checking out the season
three ish four ish bonusepisode, we're finally getting
right back on track. Weappreciate you guys appreciate

(52:55):
you listening to us. And we lookforward to you joining us in the
future episodes. So thank youagain for listening to us in the
truth about investing back tobasics. podcast disclaimer,
disclaimer. The disclaimerfollowing this disclaimer is the
disclaimer that is required forthis podcast to be up and

(53:17):
running and fully functioningand moving forward. This is
going to be the same disclaimerthat you will hear in each one
of our episodes. We hope youenjoy it just as much as we
enjoyed making it.

All content on this podcast and acompanying
transcript is for informationalpurposes only opinions expressed
hearing by Sean Cooper aresolely those of Fit financial
consulting LLC unless otherwisespecifically cited, Chris
Holling and Phylecia Jones arenot affiliated with fit
financial consulting LLC. Nor dothe views expressed by Chris
Holling or Phylecia Jonesrepresent the views of fit

(53:52):
financial consulting, LLC. Thispodcast is intended to be used
in its entirety. Any other usebeyond the author's intent,
distribution or copying of itscontent is strictly prohibited.
Nothing in this podcast isintended as legal accounting or
tax advice and is forinformational purposes only. All
information or ideas providedshould be discussed in detail

(54:15):
with an advisor, accountant orlegal counsel prior to
implementation. This podcast mayreference links to websites for
the convenience of our users.
Our firm has no control over theaccuracy or content of these
other websites. advisoryservices are offered through Fit
financial consulting LLC, aninvestment advisor firm
registered in the states ofWashington and Colorado. The

(54:35):
presence of this podcast on theinternet shall not be directly
or indirectly interpreted as asolicitation of investment
advisory services to persons ofanother jurisdiction unless
otherwise permitted by statute.
Follow up or individualizedresponses to consumers in a
particular state by our firm andthe rendering of personalized

(54:55):
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pursuant an applicable stateexemption. For information
concerning the status ordisciplinary history of a
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Bonus with Phylecia Jones!: How to Budget Your Business (Part 1 of 2)

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