#10 – How Does Biophilic Design Bring Nature Indoors? | Alex Madaus - The Truth In This Art: Stories That Matter

Episode Transcript
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Rob Lee (00:11):
Welcome back to The Truth in His Art. These are
conversations connecting arts,culture, and community. These
are stories that matter, and Iam your host, Rob Lee. Today,
we're running it back, and I'mwelcoming back a returning
guest. This entrepreneur andvisionary is bringing the
healing power of nature indoorsthrough their work at
Cultivated, a Baltimore basedhouseplant shop and biophilic

(00:35):
design studio.
So please welcome back to theprogram, Alexander Madaus.
Welcome back to the podcast.

Alexander Madaus (00:42):
Yeah. Well, number one, thank you for having
me back. It's I I don't know.It's like a really nice time
stamp, if that's the word forit, between, like, our first
conversation because that waswhen our shop had just opened up
to now when it's like the shopis closed and we're onto this
new thing. So before we talkabout that new thing, my name is
Alexander Medeas.
I am a biophilic interiordecorator and designer, and I'm

(01:06):
the owner of Studio Cultivated.Yeah. That's it. I'm excited to
be here.

Rob Lee (01:12):
So thank you. Thank you for the see see, I I like the
the the energy. This is what I'mremembering from the first
interview we had, so it's alwaysgood. So going back a bit,
because as you said, it's a nicetime stamp. Going back a little
bit, I'm curious about sort ofthe initial vision of sort of
the first iteration ofcultivating that first

(01:33):
conversation that we had towhere we're at now, the studio
cultivated, and sort of thisiteration.
What are some of the key changesmaybe to vision? And and I and I
say that because, one, you're avisionary. Two, I've encountered
that my own way in in in doingthis podcast of, hey. I'm just
gonna do a few interviews withfolks, and it's developed and

(01:54):
grown, and that vision has sortof shifted. And, you know, I
kinda do that same exercisebeginning of each year thinking
about what I wanna do.
So I just wanna get your take inthat area as it relates to
cultivate it.

Yeah. So going back to the beginning, right,
Cultivated Creations was aretail shop. Like, first and
foremost, it was like a retailhouseplant shop. We opened it
up. I was coming out of finance.
Right? I had, like, done my donemy stint there. We opened up the
shop, and the big plan for thatwas I wanted to get out of

(02:25):
finance. And the shop was thatvehicle. Right?
Like, by by happenstance, by thepeople that I met and that I
know that helped us get open,the shop became my way to find
what I thought was gonna bemiddle ground. Right? Like, I
can work the shop. I can figureout what I really want to do and
the more time that I spent inthe shop the more that we
decorated the more that we putthis actual space together this

(02:50):
undercurrent started to comethrough right where it was when
we were building furniture whenI was deciding on how to paint,
where furniture should go, bigthing became customer
experience. Right?
Like, how are we going to placethings around the shop to,
number one, give people theexperience that we want them to
have, which is we always wantedthem to feel relaxed, wanted

(03:11):
them to feel at peace, wantedthem to feel intrigued and
curious, and just give themsomething to spend time in.
Because for me, that wassomething that I felt I had been
missing a lot in my own life.Right? And so focusing on the
smallest details from what theshelves were made out of, to
what their supports were madeout of, what furniture we

(03:32):
brought in, what color should beon the wall, the type of
lighting we should have, andwhere it should be placed to,
like, best give this experience.It by the time it was all done,
right, like, we did our lastrenovation back in January of
last year, that was when Ireally started to feel like I
love houseplants.

(03:53):
I love being able to impart theknowledge that I have with them.
Right? But the most rewardingaspect of the shop for me was so
coming back, right, like, maybe,like, a year or two ago, this is
something in if the person outthere, like, it was this, like,

(04:14):
hears it or they wanna, like,reach out, I would love that
because it made a huge impact onme that is kind of the
foundation of what is turninginto cultivated, and that was
somebody walked into the shoptwo years ago or something like
that. It was a Wednesday orThursday, like, midweek. Right?
And they get into the shop,they've got their headphones on,
and they just let out this bigsigh. Right? Like, they come in,

(04:37):
they go and you can feel it.Right? Like, you work retail for
long.
You, like, hang out with peoplefor long enough. You can tell
when someone's, like, bundled upor stressed or something like
that. So they had theirheadphones in. I let them just,
like, kinda walk around andexplore, and ten, fifteen
minutes go by. Like, they werethere for a while.
They were doing everything,sitting down, like, experiencing

(04:59):
the shop like we wanted them to.And she comes up to the counter
with some small trinket. I can'tremember, but she was like,
thank you so much. I'm sorry ifI was rude. I've been having a
really rough day and was havinga panic attack, and this is the
one place that makes me feel atpeace.
So I just wanted to have sometime in here. And, like, like, I

(05:20):
again, I can't remember anythingof, like, what she got, like,
blah blah blah. But, like, itwas that, right

Rob Lee (05:27):
Yeah.

That made me realize it's the way that I felt
in there and the things that Iintroduced into that space for
my own benefit because I sufferfrom things like anxiety. I've
got depression, like bipolardisorder. And I was starting to
realize that the way that myenvironment was reflected on how

(05:48):
I felt internally. Right? Like,the the times of my life, and
this is just coming after, like,years of reflection and, like,
contemplation now that I've beenout of it for so long.
But the times in my life where,for instance, when I was
diagnosed with bipolar disorder.Right? It was when I had gone
into university and we weresitting in those classrooms.
Like, the the times I was inclassrooms was when I was either

(06:08):
feeling so sparked up that Icould barely see straight, could
barely think straight, or I wasso down that I I had trouble,
like, activating in that room orbeing in that space. And for the
longest time, I thought that itwas something internal in me.
Right? Like, I thought that itwas anxiety. I thought that it
was I mean, I was diagnosed withbipolar disorder, so I was I

(06:30):
wrote my experiences off not asmy environment is negatively
impacting me. It became I amexperiencing something negative
that is coming from withinmyself and there's nothing I can
do about that I just have toforce it out I have to be in
this space I have to get onZoloft and like find the the

(06:51):
right medication that is gonnamake me okay in this space and
after all of this and, like,after a few years, I was
realizing that, like, the spacethat we created, the space that
I put together, I put togetherso that I felt good. Right?
And that was, I think, my firstexperience unconsciously. Right?

(07:12):
That I would like, the wholetime when we were planning it
out, I was like, this is gonnabe a space where I'm gonna be
spending eight, nine hours aday. I want it to be something
that I can sustain. And thenevery decision after that became
around not just like how am Igonna make a calm space because
we could have done padded wallsand no lights and that would
have been, like, a comfortablespace, but it was more of trying

(07:34):
to appeal to all of my senses,right?
Like I realized what I wasfeeling in the office at work,
at school, at any of thoseplaces wasn't under stimulation
in a sense, but it wasoverstimulation in like the
wrong ways, right? Like thelights were too bright, The
seats were too hard. The thedesktops were made of plastic,

(07:54):
and it was I was losing aconnection to something that was
is so intrinsic in us as peoplethat I started to feel, like,
less of a person. And thoseaspects, right, were introduced
like having real wood shelves orlike a real wood counter that I
could like put my hands on andlike clean. Right?
And it's introducing I mean,we're a houseplant shop so we

(08:18):
had plenty of greenery but likethere was a lot of greenery
around. Right? But then it washaving a candle burning so you
can see, like, like, a flickerof light in the corner, like,
making sure that the thelighting is warm and not
daylight because I'm not tryingto give myself a panic attack.
And it's the the step by stepchanges that were made in the
shop over a period of three anda half years that we were in

(08:38):
there were all reflective ofthis journey towards crafting
the perfect sensory space.Right?
And from there, I started doingdesign. And from the design, I
started doing it for I mean, itstarted with, like, a couple of
restaurants here and there, andthey just wanted plants

(08:58):
normally. But then when I got toplay with the placement of
plants, right, like, what'sgonna give people the feeling
that they want? So if a bar isgonna hire me to make it feel
like a Florida tropicalparadise, but they're only gonna
pay me $600, how can we operatewithin that budget to craft
something that is gonna giveeverybody a taste of the
experience that they want? Andso that planning, that figuring

(09:21):
out how spaces are going toimpact somebody's experience
there and then designing aroundthat experience that you want
them to have, Kind of I mean, Istill get really excited talking
about it.
Right? Like, it's theopportunity to just and, like,
the restaurant was fine,whatever, but now it's like,
I've I've helped out with acouple of Pilates studios now,

(09:42):
gone into residences, and I do alot of consulting work just for
like friends and family, but forpeople that are not as mobile
anymore, their homes really are,their space. Right? And like if
you've only got like one mainspace but you can't really go
anywhere anymore it's how canyou make that space everything

(10:04):
that you need it to be to giveyour body the experience that it
has outdoors. Because we can'tobviously like rip the walls off
of our houses but there's thereare enhancements.
There are interventions, I thinkis the word that I would wanna
use. There are interventionsthat we can accomplish in our
spaces whether or not there areworkspaces, our home spaces, our

(10:26):
sleep spaces that can give usmore of this feeling of being at
peace, being at harmony Yeah.With how we need to feel in
order to be our most productive.Because having lighting is
fantastic and it helps us do ourwork, but the wrong kind of
lighting can negatively impactyour work. Right?

(10:48):
There are tons of studies outthere for, I mean, hospitals.
Right? There have been studiesdone in hospitals where you can
actually heal faster if you'vegot just, like, a window that
looks out on nature. Studentslearn better If they've got not
even plants in the room, but ifyou get natural accents or
something that lets them viewmore daylight, those students
are going to learn better.They're gonna be less stressed.

(11:08):
They're gonna retain informationbetter. And those all can
translate into the home life,right? Like it's it's this
opportunity to create anexperience for people that when
I was alone in my thoughts andfeeling like it was me that was
the problem, helping folks kindof understand how they can

(11:31):
change their spaces because it'snot them that's the problem but
their space just needs toreflect their own energy back to
them. That was a very very longway of saying I love, love, love
decorating, and my mother let mehelp when I was a kid.

Rob Lee (11:44):
That's that's wonderful. The thing is, like,
when when when I'm there havingfolks cook, one, it's just like,
I'm not trying to do the thingof, alright. Now I have some
stuff to say. But it's also thething of, like, you let someone
cook. They answer, like, two orthree of your other questions,
so it just makes your job alittle easier.
So I was just like, that ithelps me out helps me out.

Oh, man. I just caught myself out with her.
I was like, I already told,like, four stories in the side.

Rob Lee (12:06):
But but there is a couple, comments that I wanna
make. One, you know, thank youfor sharing the the the story
of, you know, in there in in thespace and the sort of the person
that that visited and, you know,it just makes me think of, just
in the morning. You know? Like,as I was sharing with you, I do
this walk, you know, everymorning. And, you know, you have

(12:28):
the different things, you know,the anxiety, all all the stuff
that's that's there.
But I find and initially, Iignored it, but I find that when
I get there to, like, PattersonPark or any place with, like,
some greenery, it's just I don'tknow if it's the air. I don't
know if it's the ducks. I'm I'mthere before they wake up. So I
think the ducks I'm like thealarm clock for the ducks.
Right?
But it's something about beingaround something that's a bit

(12:49):
different than this sanitized AIworld that we're in now that is
a nice respite from it. And it'sjust something that is, you
know, untouched and just I don'tknow, like, pure for some
reason. That's that's what itfeels like. And the other thing
is it relates to, you know,space and hearing the the the
importance of space. I recentlyin the the day job at my at my

(13:13):
own office now, so I'm away fromthe the masses.
But, it took me a while, butaway from the masses. And, you
know, I I value sort of havingthat space to make it one's own,
and that even extends in doingthis. Like, when I start off an
interview, I I try to, you know,engage in conversation first

(13:34):
versus let's just get to thework piece. No. Let's engage in
conversation so it's smooth andmakes it a bit easier for for
the the the guest.
My my job is just to do my myjob, but I find that I'm able to
operate a bit better around allof my creative stuff. So I make
my studio, a reflection of me asa creative person. It has all

(13:55):
the stuff in here that I like.It has the different elements,
and it's like creative work getsdone here. It's set up for that.
And I think having enough ofthat time and experience in
that, that space and doing thissort of, like, function in this
activity, this this work that Ican I'm able to step out and be
confident and not have thosenerves that I used to have

(14:17):
because I had so much time beingin here. And it's like, I know
how to do this. So if I have totake an extension out of here,
like, taking my mobile gear, Ican get a good interview. You
know? I could, yeah, I can makemake that idea of that space
that I have at home that I'm so,like, anchored to that I can
take to another place.
And it's like, I need thesecharacteristics that are similar
to the home setting.

Exactly. Right? And it sounds like, like,
that's it's already crafting aspace. Right? Like, you crafted
your office around, in thiscase, your your profession your
passion.
Right? I'm not gonna call thisyour profession because, like,
this is the thing that you lovedoing. Right? And so crafting a
space, like an office spacearound how you want to use it
and how you feel inspired is theentire crux of the design.

(14:59):
Right?
Like, it's it's biophilic designthat they're like the philosophy
of design that I follow isbiophilic design. It's just the
the takeaway that I have fromthat is to start designing, to
start even just, like, changingthe furniture in a space,
whether or not you'rerearranging it or not. It starts

(15:20):
with that question of how do youwant to use the space and how
you wanna feel when you'rethere.

Rob Lee (15:26):
That makes sense. That makes sense. Because I was
hearing it and I was like,that's some Latin in there.
Right? And Mhmm.

And Yeah.

Rob Lee (15:33):
And when I when I think of design, I think of because,
you know, I finally can doingthis podcast as long as I have,
I have so many folks chiming andtelling me what it is and what
it isn't. And while all valid,none of is valid. You know what
I mean? It's like Mhmm. Youdon't talk about art.
You don't talk about this. It'slike I'm I'm connecting these
things. And I find that designitself is artistic. It is a

(15:58):
creative endeavor. Right?
So, you know, could you speak onsome of those connections in
your work and how it maybeconnects and contributes to sort
of the the the Baltimore artscommunity or the Baltimore
creative class, if you will? Youknow, are there opportunities
where collaboration ishappening? And you you touched
on some of the consulting thatthat you've done. But talk a bit

(16:21):
about, like like, that piece.

So as far as how all of this connects to the
community, now there areaspirational projects that I
have, which is where I reallywant to get the community
involved. For instance, like,this Saturday well, I don't know
when this is coming up. Verysoon, I am going to be doing a,

(16:44):
I'm talking to the future. Verysoon, I am going to be hosting,
like, a workshop. So I'm friendswith a local real estate agent,
and the I love the opportunityto educate.
Right? Like, I've run a lot ofclasses out of the shop, and
that was for, like, terrariumsand paint nights and things that
I, like, I love doing. And fordesign. Right? So we're having

(17:05):
this, like, new homeowner thing.
So folks in the area that, like,just purchased a home or just
moved in, I'm gonna have, like,a couple hour session to
introduce people to this way ofthinking. Right? Because the
impact that the design can makeon the community isn't just
within the spaces that are beingdesigned. Right? It's getting
people to approach how they livetheir lives with a little bit

(17:27):
more intention and being able towalk into a space and feeling
whether or not it is resoundingwith them or not.
So it's not that I'm going to beteaching them it's like oh this
is the furniture you need tobuy, this is like this is the
type of painting you should hangon your wall and that type, but
it's how you your next steps inyour journey whether whether
it's redoing your home your yourentire home or whether or not

(17:50):
it's just like painting a coupleof walls in your house before
you do anything before you buyyour paintbrushes check-in with
yourself, right? Check-in withhow does the color yellow make
you feel? You've seen it in alot of Architectural Digest
magazines. Does it make youangry when you see it? Does it
make you feel elated?
Like is yellow the right colorfor you or do you just want to
make a change? And then what isthat change that you want to

(18:13):
make and how can we incorporateyour daily routines, your daily
life, and how you interact withnature in a way that is going to
be reflected in that space togive you that feeling that you
want? Because there's and I'msure that you've seen it. Right?
Like, green or, like, yellow isfor, like, happy energy.
Green is to, like, make youfeel, like, more or, like,

(18:35):
that's all fine, but that is allobjective psychology at a
certain point or subjective.English was not my my major. No.

Rob Lee (18:44):
No. No. Please.

But it's beauty is in the eye of the
beholder. Right? And it's forthis type of community
involvement that I wanna getinto. It's not just something
that's gonna change how somebodyis in their own space or, like,
whether or not somebody's moreproductive. I want them to be
able to go out and engage withother people with that knowledge
in their own hearts.
Right? The whole point ofstarting with introspection is

(19:06):
that you gain a little bit moreknowledge of yourself and you
can bring that out into yourcommunity. And ideally, right,
if I mean, my far away projectsis, like, I would love to design
green spaces for the city. Iwould love to, like, open a
nonprofit to help schools withtheir design and all that type
of stuff. But the impacts thatwe make and how people spend the
majority of their days is gonnaaffect how they spend their off

(19:28):
hours and how they engage withtheir community and how well
they can make connections withother people.
And all that starts with makingsure that they can understand
themselves.

Rob Lee (19:39):
Yeah. Yeah. I know. I I think that's really good
because, you know, again, goingback and remarketing on when we
initially chatted, we werestill, I think, on the tail end
of being inside and just your atleast I know I was much more
aware of and these walls aren'tpainted. It's still
gentrification gray from thishouse I bought.
And, you know, wanting to havethings in here, like, I'm

(20:03):
looking at my my wall in thestudio right now, and I have
just some of my old paintings,some of these different things
that are there that kinda servea purpose, not only just to keep
the walls from being bare andthat that sort of gray color I'm
describing, but also to addsomething there. And eventually,
I'm gonna paint it, but Ihaven't gotten to a spot of what
color do I want it to be? Andand I would ask folks like, what

(20:28):
color should this be? And reallythinking about it, you were
touching on like, does thismatter? Is this a good color?
Is this a bad color? Quoteunquote. And I I just keep going
back to the the the word black.I don't know. I wanted to feel
like it's a dark room for somereason, like photography style.
And I'm like, alright. Cool. AndI think a lot of times, we we

(20:49):
make these decisions based onmaybe what someone else tells us
or what, you know, as a amagazine or someone much smarter
than us might say to us, but itdoesn't really resonate. It
doesn't really click with us.And, you know, I have one part
of my home painted, and I likethe colors.
It's like this really, like,royal, like, blue. It's super
dark blue, what have you. I waslike, I dig this. This this
color works. This color worksfor what I want it to be.

(21:12):
And, but kinda being a littlebit more intentional with some
of the other rooms, especially,like, one's bedroom, it's like I
sleep there. There's a energyMhmm. There I gotta think about
and but the room that I'mspending the most time in that
I'm up, and sometimes I need tosleep in here, is the studio. So
this room, two degrees, is a bitmore important than the other

(21:32):
rooms to me.

Yeah. Exact and and, I mean, it sounds like
if you want, we can run throughthe questions. I actually we, so
part of this whole thing. Right?It's I mentioned, like, wanting
to kind of branch out into moreof the community education.
So we just finished last week. Ijust finished last week, like, a
biophilic design workbook.

Rob Lee (21:54):
What do

you say? It's like this free little booklet
that I wanna send out to folksbecause, like, I've been helping
my friends, like, redecoratetheir spots. It's, like, fun for
me. This is something that Ireally love, which is also,
like, why I realized I shouldstart doing it, which because it
was that thing where it's like,oh, man. Like, I really like
having this store, and I reallylove, like, houseplants and,
like, giving people education.

(22:14):
But then I was like, hey. I'llspend my entire weekend going
tile shopping with you becausethat makes me vibrate inside,
and I don't know why. Yeah. Butputting that into a book. Right?
Like, going through having theseexperiences with people that I'm
close with and then hearingtheir feedback of it's like, oh,
I didn't. So I don't know. I putthat all together in, like, a
little workbook. If you want, Ican send that to you, but it's

(22:35):
it all starts with so let'slet's look at your office.
Right?

Rob Lee (22:39):
Yeah.

So you've got the wall directly ahead of you.
So I'm assuming you got, like, alittle monitor in front of you.
Right?

Rob Lee (22:44):
I do. I do.

What kind of desk are we working on?

Rob Lee (22:47):
This is a hodgepodge of a broken desk that I converted.
I know it sounds all the the thethe the Freddie Mercury
aesthetic, the the, Wizard of Ozaesthetic is all gone. I'm
working off of a a janky, kindabroken it's dirty. It's dirty.
It's fine.
But it's it's a old, like, blackdesk that, I converted.

Okay. Alright. And now is your chair like, is
your back against the wall andyou've got space between your
desk and the wall? Or is yourdesk right up against the wall?

Rob Lee (23:16):
Desk right up against the wall and I'm, like, flushed
to the desk. There's the all thespaces behind me.

Okay. All the spaces behind you. So when you
look at that big so you'rebasically, like, your whole
field of vision is this wall infront of you then?

Rob Lee (23:27):
Yeah. It is.

Okay. So you and I are having a conversation
right now. Right? Like, I'massuming this is primarily what
you're doing in that space.Right?

Rob Lee (23:35):
Yeah. Yeah.

What color is the wall behind you right now?

Rob Lee (23:38):
The wall behind me is that gentrification gray I was
describing.

Okay. And that wall in front of you?

Rob Lee (23:44):
Same. This this room has not been painted. It's all
It is.

It's all it's all gentrifying. Okay. Alright.
So when you are having theseconversations, so for instance,
I am very anxious speakingsometimes of, like, getting
interviewed. This doesn't happenvery often.
So I'm like like I'm I'm like ananxious person. Right?
Generally. But there areinterventions that I could put

(24:08):
in to, like, decrease myanxiety. There are
interventions, like, if youwanna feel more alert when
you're podcasting, like, it'slater on in the afternoon.
I know that my energy kind of,like, swings down with the day.
What is when you sit down atthat desk and when you're about
to have a conversation, how isit you wanna feel?

Rob Lee (24:25):
I I wanna feel wanna feel loose. I wanna feel good. I
wanna feel, like, introspective.I want to just feel, like,
prepared and just good for aconversation. And I'll say if
I've not been anywhere and,like, actually had conversations
with people, I'm trying to,like, warm up and because, you

(24:46):
know, it's like talking tosomebody for the first time.
If I have a super earlyinterview, right, and I haven't
talked to anyone, maybe my cat,it's just like I gotta get all
of this. Practice. It does. Itdoes. But he doesn't talk back
as much as I would like.
But, yeah, try trying to justfeel just feel like my most
confident to put a pin on it.Yeah.

Alright. So you wanna feel confident. You
wanna feel engaged. You wannafeel alert ish, but you don't
wanna get hit in the head withit. Right?

Rob Lee (25:11):
Right.

So something like a little bit more calmer.
Right? Alright. So go ahead andclose your eyes. I'm gonna ask
you, when you think of nature.
Right? When I say you arerelaxed and you are in nature,
what is the first image thatcomes to your mind?

Rob Lee (25:34):
A sunset.

A sunset. Okay. Do you know what hues are
in there? Do you know what colorjumps out to you?

Rob Lee (25:44):
I'm getting for whatever reason, I'm getting
orange. I'm thinking of a sunsetat a beach. I'm getting I'm
getting orange, and I'm gettinga little blue, like a light.

Alright. So that is actually that's very
funny. I wish that we had donethe thing where I, like, wrote
it down on a piece of paperbeforehand. But that tells you.
Right?
So a couple of the when you wantto feel most alert or most most
calm, it sounds like it's inthat transition period, right,
between day and night. Sowhether it's sunrise or sunset,

(26:14):
that's when you find most ofyour energy and when you feel
most on track. Yeah. So a goodcolor for that wall in front of
you might be like a burnt orangeor a coral. Nothing that's like
very saturated.
Right? You wanna take down thesaturation so it's not like
impacting your eyes. Yeah. But asofter orange, like a softer
burnt orange, like a terracotta,something warm and earthy. Yeah.

(26:35):
So So that when you're lookingat it behind your monitor right?
So I don't know if you I'm muchmore of, like, a thinking colors
and, like, pictures kinda guy.But if you can look at that wall
around you now, you see it in,like, a calm, burnt orange,
like, something that makes youfeel a little bit alert. Yeah.
That would be what you'relooking at.
Right? And then you can talkabout depth. You can add in the
blues with, like, some of thepaintings that you've made in
the past. If they have any bluesin them, you can, like, hang

(26:57):
those on the wall to give youthose little tips and tweaks
Yeah. To kind of regulate thatmood that you wanna feel.
Yeah. But that would be it. So Iwould say, yeah, that would be

Rob Lee (27:07):
That's tight.

The color that I went with. And not like the
whole not the whole room. Right?Like, you can definitely change
the other walls, but you don'twanna be in a box of orange,
maybe just, like, right in frontof you. Yeah.
But probably that wall right infront of you, I'd say go with
that light orange color.

Rob Lee (27:19):
That's that's tight. That's I I I see it. And, no,
that that it works. And, youknow, I enjoy orange as well.
You know?
I've worked for the Orioles fora number of years. So, you know,
I mean, the losing years. So,you know, very, very, you know,
interesting relationship there.But, no, it it it makes a lot of
sense in having something thathas that vibrancy and that that

(27:39):
brightness, but, you know, notoversaturated as you're you're
touching on something that's abit soft. That that makes sense.
And I even think of, you know,sort of, you know, my partner's
place when, she got somepainting done just in there. You
know, she has, like, sort of thethe oxblood, but then it grayed
us out to a very, like, softpink Mhmm. In certain spots. And

(28:01):
that's, like, the First Floor ofthe house. And she was like,
this is all intentional.
And I look at her hair, and herhair is kind of I was like, did
you dye your hair this way aswell? She's like, oh, this is
all orchestrated. I was like,oh, wow. You're smarter than
this than I am. I just shaved myhead.
This is why the walls aregentrifying. Just at his base
level. That's probably what'shappening. Who knows? Who knows?

Oh my god. I love that.

Rob Lee (28:24):
It's ridiculous.

But it's the intention. Right? It's and and I
don't know. As fun as it got toit's that's, like, a little bit
of it. Right?
I don't know whether or not thatworks or comes off, but that's I
love doing that kind of stuff.Right? Like, even just, like,
watching you, like, close youreyes and kind of picture that
little smile that you yeah.You're gonna watch this video
back, and you're gonna see theface that you were making. And

(28:45):
that experience right likegetting to put something
together where someone has thatexperience in their space is
such it's an incredibly uniquefeeling and I feel really
blessed to have been able to dothat and that's kind of why we
started moving in this directionis because of of that.
It's, like, lasting impact.Right? Like, it's not just like
you're changing something for aday. You're changing something

(29:08):
for ostensibly the remainder ofthat person's existence and the
remainder of their relationshipwith their interior spaces.

Rob Lee (29:16):
Wow. It's really good. It's really good. So I wanna
move into I got a couple morequestions because I guess I
guess that again, lettingletting folks cook. You know, I
get these things out of the waya little bit.
So I'm I'm really curious aboutthis one, the creativity piece
where creativity is it's beendescribed as the art of making

(29:40):
mistakes. Do you have anexperience that comes to mind
that, you know, was maybesomething that felt like a
mistake at the time, that maybeturned out to be fuel for, you
know, late maybe latercreativity or or even growth? I
have a number of abandonedpodcasts that I think led to
sort of this is what works, thisis what doesn't work. And at the

(30:03):
time, it's like, why am I evendoing this? Now it's just like,
well, this is why.
This is why you did that, tolearn from it. So for you, is
there anything that comes tomind?

Oh, we got three and a half years of
mistakes I made. But, but Iappreciate all of them. Right?
Like, I I mean, obviously, like,tastes evolve and tastes change,
so I'm not gonna look at, like,how I decorated the shop. The
the big one that's coming tomind right now is one of the
first, like, solo outdoor jobsthat I did.

(30:34):
Right? Because I hadn't really,like, been doing people's
interiors. I mostly just stuckto, like, house plants and
stuff, and so a big part of thatwas, especially when we were
first starting out, right, it'ssaying yes to opportunities,
because it's money in the door,and it's it's something that,
like, gets the gears spinning.So I had somebody reach out, and
they wanted, plants in front oftheir house. Like, it's a

(30:55):
Baltimore row home.
You know? Like, people dig outjust, like, a little square
footage with bricks and stuff.Sure. And the client wanted a
tree that covered their windowsas well as, like, two or three
different types of shrubs.Right?
So I get over to the client'shouse. I look at this space.
It's about, like, a foot deep.

Rob Lee (31:17):
It's all good.

Yes. Hi, Donnie. We hear you. So I get to
the space. Right?
And it's, like, maybe 12 inchesdeep. Right? These clients are
talking. They want, like, aseven or eight foot tree that is
four feet wide to cover theirone window into their home. And
I look at the space I look atwhat they're looking for and

(31:38):
there's a part of me that saysokay we can get something that I
can put in right now it's notgoing to cover the window
because they're like five feetoff the ground but in like two
or three years this is going tocover that window, it's gonna be
good, it's a native plant, it'sgonna survive there, it's not
big enough yet but the root ballis small enough where I can get
it in this space and then theroots themselves can decide

(32:00):
where they want to grow.
Because I'm looking at like thetrees that would cover it right
and they're like this widearound. I people aren't gonna be
able to see, I'm realizing.It's, like, like, two feet in
diameter, so we would never fitin there. And off the bat, I'm
like, this is gonna be tough,but, like, I can I can do this?
I can definitely do this.
So I get with the client. I talkto them and they're like, oh,

(32:23):
okay. That sounds great. And Igo for it. Right?
I get the plants. I geteverything in. It looks
beautiful. It's still not whereit is and then the client
messages me and is like, oh,hey. When is this gonna grow
over top of the window?
And I was like, well, it's atree. So it'll it'll take a

(32:44):
little while like we talkedabout. And they were like, oh,
okay. Well, we'll can we just,like, revisit this to, like, see
how it does in, like, a month orso? And I was like, well, in a
month, the roots aren't gonnabe, like, established yet.
And, like, all of these things.Right? And then I come back two
weeks later, and they had paidsomebody to rip all of it out
and then put in a tree and thenI saw that And this is like two

(33:07):
three months later. I saw thatthat tree had then died, but all
of this to say it's like themistake that I realized there
was deferring too much. Right?
Because you get in there and youunderstand. It's like this is
the job that they want. This iswhat I can provide for them. And
that whole time I was trying tomeet them with, like, no. I'm
gonna get something in and itwill grow there eventually.
Yeah. Not really understandingtheir time constraints and what

(33:31):
their expectations were and howI could have if not satisfied
those expectations, then how Icould have maybe led them in a
different direction. If theywanted a window screen, maybe I
could have talked to them aboutoptions that would block the
window and still give them thatprivacy as opposed to just
trying to block it up with a bigplant. Right? And trying to
think more multidimensionallylike that.
And as far as that goes, I mean,I consider that a mistake

(33:56):
because it always bums me outwhen, like, plants are, like,
torn out. Right? Like, it's it'sit's something that we invested
a lot of time and love andeffort into installing in this
space, but because it didn'tcheck one or two boxes and I
wasn't able to give the clientthe experience that they wanted
the whole thing got thrown out.And the mistake in there I think
is realizing that when peopleask for, in this case, plants to

(34:21):
block the window, realizing thatthey're not actually asking for
plants to block the window.Right?
They are asking for privacy.

Rob Lee (34:29):
Yeah.

And the plants are a bonus because they want to
have plants there. They wannahave life growing. So we can get
them the plants that are goingto thrive they're going to look
beautiful there and we can givethem some privacy but it's not
all the time that those twothings are going to be the same
and taking a step backprofessionally and looking at
that whole situation whichmortified me for weeks still

(34:52):
does looking back at that andrealizing that I didn't approach
the client with the full scopeof what I could do because I was
only there for what the clientwanted And now it's much more I
understand the skills andstrengths that I have and I want
to impart those and, like, showpeople the value of it and show
people the experience that theycan get while still satisfying

(35:16):
all of their needs. Right? Andit's it's advocating for myself,
I think, is the thing that Ihave the most trouble with.

Rob Lee (35:23):
That that that makes that makes a lot of sense. And
thank you thank you for sharingthat because, you know, I'll
I'll comment on this beforemoving to the next question
where dad is at a situationwhere whenever it's one of those
things is cool client, it's anopportunity, there's money,
whatever the things that, youknow, pop up or even if it's
just like a creative challenge.Right? And it aligns with the

(35:43):
thing I was touching on of beingable to take sort of the
experience that I cultivatebeing in the home studio and
taking that out and making myown space around it. You know, I
was doing an event.
I was doing artscape last yearand, you know, going in there,
we're trying to get theseinterviews. And I was like,
cool. This is gonna be great.It's gonna be cool. And so on.
I booked different people doingthe stuff that I know how to do

(36:05):
and keeping all this stufforganized in a way. And there's
still sort of a stretch, right,where I'm not doing it in my
studio. I'm doing it out therein an uncontrolled environment
and it's multiple guests over ashort period of time. So it's
complexity, but I'm like, I'mconfident I can do it. Get there
and I'm looking at the space andI'm like, alright.

(36:27):
The space is different. I alwaysaccount for that. Space is gonna
be different than expected. Andthen I see the space that you
have in mind. And I was like,acoustically, we're not gonna be
able to get audio.
I was like, it's a plus if wecan get video, but at a minimum,
I need to get you guys audio.And I started just going with
subject matter expert. Just it'slike, I'm not only gonna be
someone that's, quote, unquote,the talent. I'm gonna consult

(36:48):
here as to what you need. And,so ultimately, it resulted in me
finding space, you know, within,the the the venue that we were
at or there at Mica and found aspace.
It was like an empty, like,ceramic studio, I believe, and
just fashioned that to look likethis intimate setting versus the

(37:08):
sort of pop and circumstance,you know, green fuzzy wall
situation. I was like, this is

up a little bit.

Rob Lee (37:15):
Yeah. And, you know, because I was like, this is the
way that we're gonna be able toget this at a minimum, get some
images, get some some picturestaken with the folks back there,
but it's not gonna be the videosetup, but it is gonna be
capturing that conversation andjust using what I knew. But, you
know, I checked it. I did the Idon't know if you remember
Ghostbusters. You know, this wayI'm walking around with, like,
my, audio sensor, kinda seeingUh-huh.

(37:38):
Audio is.

And I

Rob Lee (37:39):
was like, ah, it's not gonna work out. It's like your
catalytic converter is down. Andjust going to the back and just
being able to get that, I felt,you know, I was gonna be
comfortable one way or the otherjust because I had that level of
confidence in it. But I waslike, I'm confident enough to
say, like, this is the thingthat you need to get the thing
that you want to accomplish hereand that you've hired me to do.

Exactly. Right? And it's I mean, that's
an exact that's it. Yeah. It'sit's trusting your own instincts
as the professional in thesituation.
And whether or not they arebringing you on as the
professional or they just want aservice provided. Right. Exactly
like you're saying, you leaninto what you know to create the
best possible outcome that isgoing to reflect on you. Because
in the end, right, those plantsgetting ripped out, that was on

(38:21):
me. That was a reflection of thework that I did and the effort
that I put in because I did notdo everything that I could have
in that situation.
In this case, it was advocatingfor what I knew to be right.
Right? Or, like, what what Ifelt as the professional would
solve this issue.

Rob Lee (38:39):
Absolutely. So I've got two more real questions I wanna
hit you with. This this oneright here, I think I touched on
a little bit earlier. After 800episodes of this podcast, I
think it's like 08:30 orsomething I'm at now, I've
learned we we we all work betterwhen we're working together.
Right?
And the term community is oftenthrown around. I think some

(39:01):
people use it in this weird waythat I don't see any community
there. It's just like me at thetop of the community and
everybody else. But I thinkcommunity is a very interesting
term that's used a lot. A lot oftimes people just fall short and
sometimes we we have these ideasof this individualized success.
Well, you know, community up toa point. But what does support,

(39:24):
right? Because I think that'swhen we're we're talking
community. That's the way I feelabout it a lot of times. I'm
doing this.
This is community centric And attimes, it doesn't always feel
supported. The kind word'salways great and, you know,
people sharing and evenlistening and being a part of it
is great. And that feels likesupport. But, you know, what
does support look like for youand cultivate it? Is it

(39:45):
community centric?
Is it collaboration? Is it justmore, like, opportunities to
consult? What is what doessuccess look like for you? What
does community look like foryou?

Oh, so I'm gonna start with the community
because cultivated as a shopitself. Right? Like, we had so
many people coming in and out ofthose doors that it it like, in
the end, it became a community.Right? Like, the last couple of
days when we got the notice thatwe were being kicked out of our
last space, when the power gotcut off, when all of that
happened, and I put out the calland I was like, hey, guys.

(40:16):
We need to get rid of stuff and,like, we don't know what's gonna
happen. We went over to, ourfriends over at Meander Art Bar,
which if you haven't been yet,absolutely incredible. I
actually wanna touch on that ina second. But, they got us into
their market last minute. Theyconnected us with the host who
I've worked with before.
He actually had a, a livedrawing class at our shop a

(40:39):
couple of years ago. I didn'trealize. And so when I reached
out to the owner, I was like, ohmy god. Is there any way? They
reached out to Harrison who hadput on the event.
They got me in immediately, andthen so many people showed out.
Right? Like, we CultivatedCreations as a shop was such an
incredible opportunity, not forthe fact that it, like, got me
out of finance. Right? Not forthe fact that it, like,

(41:01):
introduced me to what it waslike to be a creative and to,
like, follow that.
But it Cultivated Creations, thebest thing that it did was
introduce me to Baltimore as acommunity, Fells Point as a
community, Upper Fells. I'm inHighland Town right now and,
like, all of these littlespaces. Right? It's community to
me is something that I careabout and it's the reason why I

(41:22):
can't leave Baltimore and it'sthat double edged sword, right?
I moved here a decade ago andit's like I can't imagine living
anywhere else because of thecommunity and things right now
feel especially difficult.
Right? The community that Ihave, we're trading dinners
every other week. Right? Like, Imake bread for my friends, and
they make me tofu breakfastsandwiches. We have these little

(41:44):
things that day to day not only,like, make me feel good, not
only, like, me as a person,like, help me accomplish things,
but they help me survive at theend of the day.
Like, they help my partner andI, like, get food in our mouths.
They help us trade, and theyhelp me contribute, which is
something that I think is themost important part of
community. Because, like, it'sgreat and all to say, like, oh,

(42:06):
man. Like, I love the community.I support the community.
Like, all that type of stuff.But at the end of the day, I get
back whatever I'm giving out.Right? And it's it's time with
people. It's, I don't know, justlike hanging out with somebody
if they're having a bad day.
It's that, but then it'sorganizing your community. Like,

(42:28):
we back to Meander reallyquickly when everything fell
apart with the shop, like, wewere working with them. We host
our club out of Meander now,which I know you haven't been
yet because I'm there everytime. It is this Thursday and
it's gonna be the third Thursdayof every month, so this is like
my little shameless plug. ThirdThursday of every month, art
club is at Meander Art Bar,which is 1801 East Lombard

(42:49):
Street.
There's discounts on, like, foodand drink and all that stuff,
but it's a free club. Right? Andthe point of the club and what
made it so incredible was thefirst one that we had was our
club has been, like, five to 10people because of the space that
we've been in. Right? Like, theshop wasn't, like, real big, so
it started off as, like, peoplesitting on, like, pillows that
they brought or blankets oranything.

(43:11):
And we got there last month, sothis would be January, which was
the first art club that we hadthere. And I asked, Elihu or my
girlfriend, to come with mebecause I was like, it's our
first one there. I'm reallyworried no one's gonna show up,
and, like, I want, like, peopleto be there. Right? Like, I
want, like, the bar to see,like, there's, like there are
folks that are gonna come andthat, like, we can, like,

(43:32):
contribute.
Like, we can we can try to,like, stoke this into something
that people will enjoy because Iknow it's gonna be something
that people can enjoy. So we sitdown. There's, like, five or six
other people at the same tablethat we've sat at, who are all
there doing art. And so we sitthere. We're chatting.
The rest of meander's packed.Right? It's like wall to wall.

(43:52):
And I was like, wow. This issuch an incredible like, wow.
This is like a lot of peoplehere for a Wednesday. And I
turned around at one point.Like, I, like, looked over my
shoulder. Someone was, like,delivering a drink to a table,
and I noticed that the tablethat they delivered a drink to,
they had art supplies. And thenI looked at the table right

(44:14):
behind me, and they had artsupplies.
And then I looked at this andevery single table in Meander
was filled. People werechatting. People were doing art.
I was noticing people, like,come in. People were doing it at
the bar.
And people it was it was thecommunity. Right? Like, people
strangers sat with us at ourtable. I saw people, like,
making friends at other tablesto, like, sit down and make

(44:37):
these connections. I don't know.
I find myself crying a lot as Iget older, and it was, like,
really nice. But it was one ofthose things where it's like,
holy shit. This is it. This isthe community. These are people
that all came out because theywant not just to, like, like,
get up on stage and, like, singor, like, an open mic night or
something.
They wanted to sit down. Theywanted to meet other creatives.

(44:59):
They wanted to either learn fromthem or connect with them in a
way that is going to get carriedon into their day to day lives.
Right? Like, friendships getmade there.
Connections get made there.People find their neighbors or
people that are in fieldssimilar to them. I know that
we've got like a couple oftraveling nurses there that just
like met each other byhappenstance, but it's
community. It's about gettingout of it exactly what you put

(45:21):
into it, but you got to givepeople a space for that. Right?
And there's such an empty space,I feel like, in all of our lives
for and I know that this goesaround a lot, but, like, the
third spaces concept where we'vegot our homes and we've got our
workspaces, but having thirdspaces that are not only
accessible, right, but free.And, like, a gathering space for

(45:41):
people that can sit there withno pressure just to be and see
who else is out there. Right?Like, it's past COVID. Right?
We're, like, four years pastthat, but I still find myself
spending a majority of my timeat home now and like I do the
dinner with friends once a weekwhich I absolutely love and is
absolutely necessary for mysanity and like seeing people

(46:02):
here and there but I feel likeit's just become so baked into
myself and I'm sure like acouple of other people out there
of like just home is where Ispend my time now, right? It's
expensive to be outside it feelslike like I I there's there's
that joke where it's like youcan't step outside your house
without spending $200 and it'sthat pressure is being felt more
and more today. So giving orcreating an opportunity for

(46:26):
people to meet and gather andconnect with their neighbors and
their community in a way thatdoesn't have, like, a monetary
bar to it Yeah. Is, I think, thefoundation of a lot that's going
to come. Right?
Baltimore's got a few CSAs that,like, I'm very interested in.
Big thing that I wanna getinvolved in is the community
gardening program and, like,figuring out a way to, like,

(46:49):
produce food on a small scaleand then, like, give people
those skills because at the endof the day, we're only as strong
as our community is. Right? Andit doesn't matter who's in the
mayor's office. Doesn't matterwho's governor.
Doesn't matter who's president.Right? Baltimore can get
Baltimore's back as long as weknow each other. Right? And as
long as we care about ourneighbors.
And the first step to caringabout your neighbors is seeing

(47:11):
who your neighbors are andmeeting them in a place where
you feel free to talk, whereit's like, if I'm going out to a
bar now, if I'm going out todinner, it's with my partner,
we're going on a date. I'm notsitting at the bar and, like,
shaking hands with everybodythat I that, like, I could
possibly meet because that's adate, and that's not what you're
supposed to do on a date. Butthis Thursday, right, I'm gonna

(47:35):
be going there. Elior isprobably gonna be coming with
me, but it's not, like, a socialtime for just us. And it is nice
to, like, still be able to,like, chat with her, but it's
also really important that,like, we can sit on a couch and
another couple will sit therenext to us and we are gonna
introduce ourselves.
We're gonna ask who they are,where they're from, what they're
doing, what they love to do,what crafts did they bring, what
got them interested in art, whatdo they do on their day to day,

(47:57):
oh, you do blah blah blah. Well,hey, I do x y and z. How can we
help each other? What do youneed? And I think that we're
moving towards generationally, Ithink socially, I think
politically, we're moving muchmore especially in light of
recent events, a system wherewe're gonna have to start
relying on one another, andwe're gonna have to start

(48:20):
filling niches that we haven'thad to fill in a city before.
Right? Like, if I go up to mymom's place in the country,
there's a dude down the roadthat sells eggs. He's not
paying, like, $67 for a dozeneggs. Like, I would hear it over
at Aldi, which is you can'treally raise chickens in
Baltimore, but the end of theday, things are getting more
expensive. And being able torely on a network of people to

(48:41):
provide services that you canthen exchange something that you
do for Yeah.
Is incredible. Right? Like, I dotattoos on the side. Like, I'll
trade tattoos for haircuts.Like, there's I I love doing
design for my friends, andthey'll, like, have me over for
a home cooked meal.
And it's these little thingsthat make not only it all
worthwhile. Right? Like, I like,money's nice, but, like, at the

(49:06):
end of the day, it's theconnection. Right? Like, all of
my clients from this past year,I text with regularly now.
Like, we send each other memes.They'll have me over to play
pinball. It's but it's it'sbuilding those knit ties. Right?
Like, they're introducing me totheir friends who are are now
becoming part of my circle.
And like I get to introduce themto the spaces that we've created
out here and bringing them inand like getting them more

(49:28):
comfortable with expressing thatside of themselves. Well, yeah,
I wouldn't be anything withoutcommunity, man. There's the only
thing that I can really hope todo is that whenever I leave this
right by circumstance orwhatever, giving knowing that
there are tools left behind thatwe helped create as a community

(49:49):
that's gonna help the nextgeneration. Right? Like, talking
about schools, talking about,like you were mentioning your
walk to Patterson Park.
Have you ever seen the theexperiment where they asked kids
to kids who, like, walked to andfrom school to, like, draw what
their commute looked like andkids that took the bus to
school? Yeah. You can look thatup. I can also send it to you

(50:09):
later. But the kids that walkedto school, right, like, their
drawings were colorful.
They had grass. They had trees.There were squirrels. There were
dogs. The kids that took thebus, it was, like, darker.
Right? Like, there was a road.There was a bus. There's not
that depth of vision thereanymore, that experience of
life. And And I feel like we'reall those kids on the bus now,
either through our phones orthrough our workspaces.

(50:32):
We're isolated. We're not inconnection with nature. We don't
have that depth of vision thatexcites us and makes us curious
about our surroundings anymore.And the same goes for our
community. Right?
Yeah. Like, it's all well andgood to say you want community,
but that community is deep, man.That community is gonna have
some people in it that you mightnot see eye to eye on with
everything, but they're stillyour neighbors. Right? Like, you

(50:52):
still share space.
You still pay the same tax. Youstill live you share a wall.
That person is still yourcommunity whether you like them
or not. You can't pick andchoose.

Rob Lee (51:01):
No. It's it's a really good good point. And, you know,
what I try to do in this, youknow, is is as I touched on
before we got started, this isjust me doing this at this
point. And, you know, with someof the things that are
disappearing, some of the thingsthat have just changed
drastically, you know, I noticedthat this platform and I say

(51:21):
that with all of the modestypossibly, that could that could
could muster all the modesty Ican muster. But, you know,
there's not too many platformsthat are there that are actually
saying, hey.
You wanna come on and talk aboutwhat you do for an hour? No
agenda. Mhmm. No other thingattached to it. And, you know,
at times, sort of like, thisdoesn't have to I don't have to
exist in this sort of fashion,but this doesn't have to exist.

(51:44):
And I I see the value of it, andI see like, I enjoy doing it for
one, and it's a way to at leastattempt to connect Because
that's the thing that I'venoticed that it's just goes
away. And you you were talkingabout the the sort of, the third
space, if you will. That's thething that that kinda goes away.
Like, you know, I used to lookat it. I was like, man, back in

(52:04):
the day, like, seventies,eighties, what have you, people
used to like, hey.
We're gonna get up and go overthis person's house. We're gonna
have dinner. We're just gonna,like, put on some records and
just kick it. And I was like,yeah. You gotta connect to do
that.
And we just kinda find a way toskip some of that stuff and just
get to, well, I liked your post.I shared

it.

Rob Lee (52:22):
And I will share this this last thing before I move to
this last quick question. I Iwas able to do some interviews
with some folks in Columbus,Ohio. And, you know, a lot of
times behind the scenes, I'mtold, well, why do you interview
people outside of Baltimore? I'mlike, I can interview whoever I
want. Like, what what are wedoing?

(52:44):
Like, you

It's my show.

Rob Lee (52:45):
Right. Right. And so so I realized some of my my
ugliness starts to creep outwhen someone's trying to tell me
creatively what notes I shoulddo. Do. Like, it's settled out.
But I connected with thosefolks, and I and I know the
through line. It's just like, Iknow it. You know, like, I met
some of them through inBethesda, which is still in the
state. What are we doing? But Iwas asked to come there, to this

(53:08):
cartoon Crossroads Columbus.
You know, a lot of the folksthat were there, they were
selling books. And I was invitedto do a panel, you know, to
moderate a panel with threeartists. One of which I became
I've become friends with. Youknow, I had to go out of state,
fly out of state to get thatacknowledgment to do a panel, to
talk with people, and to connectwith folks. And I was there

(53:29):
waving the flag of Baltimore,and I don't always kinda get
that here, but I was definitelyhave already this hat on.
I was talking wild. I was like,man, the Browns suck. I'm just
talking all the time. It's like,you know?

Oh, no. You gotta start shit, though. People
would if if you're not doingthat, I don't think folks would
believe you're from Baltimore.

Rob Lee (53:48):
They don't have that they don't hear that accent. So
but ultimately, the the goalthere and what I experienced
there, which is just a reallygreat period and, you know, this
this weekend of going to, youknow, this convention, if you
will, and and and working there,but also attending, I was like,
these people are in a community.These people are connecting.
They're all over the place, youknow, and all throughout this

(54:09):
country. They are connected inthis community of independent
artists and writers, academics,all of this different stuff.
And I was like, I've beenaccepted to be a part of it.
And, you know, you go throughit. I'm sure you've you've
encountered it as well where,you know, when you're not in the
cool crowd or have you. I thinkwe all have those those
different stories.

Oh, yeah.

Rob Lee (54:29):
A lot of times I've, you know, kinda got the
exclusion or anything even now.You know, like, I do this. I'm a
relatively I'm a noticeableindividual. And, you know,
sometimes it's just like, Idon't even wanna waste the time
because it's sometime asuperficial thing. But that
situation right there, thatexperience right there reminded
me of what do I value in thatway and literally just hanging

(54:54):
out and kicking in andconnecting with folks with no
intent otherwise.
You know, I just hung out inColumbus with one of the dudes
at Southside Frank, and we justwe got dinner and just kinda
hung out for several hours andthen went to some after party,
and it was karaoke with all ofthe artists and all of that
stuff. It was a really, youknow, cool, situation. And it's
just like, hey. When I go backthere, you know, for for this

(55:17):
year's iteration of it, youknow, I can tap in and it's
like, hey. I now have areference point and a connection
with you that we can grow andblossom, and I look for that at
times here.
It happens at times, but I findit happens with folks that a lot
of times are outside of here.And it's just like, I need to
improve those relationships withthose neighbors. And it goes to
what you're saying. We justgotta get past some of these

(55:38):
things.

Yeah. And he I mean, even to your point. Right?
That's the old saying, like,iron sharpens iron. Right?
In order to get better in yourfield, whether it's podcasting,
whether or not it's design,whether or not it's just, like,
being as a creative person, youhave to have people around you
that will do that. And I feellike a lot of seasons in my

(56:00):
life, right, because, like, Idon't know, middle school, high
school, college, early twenties,the criteria that I had for
friends, right, was are theyclose by, and are they nice to
me? And, like, as that was Ijust did not know who I was as a
person. Right? So finding peoplethat are kind, that are gentle,

(56:22):
that work well with you isimportant.
And then as I'm aging, right,those types of relationships
that you were describing of thembecoming so important. Right?
The people that you can hang outwith that it's not like you're
sitting around just like rotlike, like, rotting for an hour,
like, whether or not you, like,throw on on a TV show, but,
like, somebody that you can sitdown and have a conversation
that afterwards your brain feelslike it's on fire. Right? Like,

(56:46):
you feel a little bit sharp.
You feel a little bit moreelastic, and those are
relationships that absolutelydeserve priority in my opinion,
because it's it's just I don'tknow. How are we supposed to
grow as people if we're neveraround anyone else who's
growing? Right? Like, I'm Imean, I'm 31 now and I still

(57:08):
need p oh, no.

Rob Lee (57:09):
But, like, you know what

I mean? Like, I and I'm like but like I like
at 31 right like early 20s youasked me what I would be doing
at 31 I'd have that shit figuredout. I'd be retired man like God
but but now I'm 31 and I'msitting here and I'm realizing
it's like I need people aroundme that I can learn from I need
people around me that I can growwith because if I'm only around

(57:34):
folks that are like content withwhatever's up or like don't know
the things that I love or aren'tinterested in the things that I
want to talk about, I'm nevergonna get better in that thing
and I need to find people that Ican at the very least yammer at
about something that I love andhave them yammer back at me
about why they like that thingbut why their thing is kinda

(57:54):
similar. You know what I mean?And it's it's keeping that
elasticity.
It's it's finding those littlemoments in any type of
relationship that make you feellike, god. Like that was time
well spent. Like I could havebeen in bed for that and I'm
happy that I wasn't. Like you'retalking about an after party. I
like I fell asleep at 08:30 lastnight.

(58:18):
But then it's finding thosepeople that you can be up to,
like, one or 2AM with. And not,like, because you're out
partying, but just becauseyou're having a nice time. You
don't want it to end. Like, ourthe folks that we do the dinners
with. Right?
He is a web designer who'sworking, with a company down in
DC right now. He lost his joblast year, so this is, like, the

(58:38):
journey that he's been on.

Rob Lee (58:39):
Yeah.

So he and I get together. Right? I've been I
built myself out a curriculum oninterior design decoration,
like, learning all the the,like, technical speaking points
for, like, why my brain thinksthat looks good.

Rob Lee (58:50):
Yeah.

And so in the same breath, right, he's
studying. So we get together. Hetalks to me about what he's
learning. I digest that. I liketo talk to him about it.
I like to ask him whatchallenged him about it. He'll
it's it's that type ofrelationship that pushes you to
think a little bit deeper. And Ikeep saying it, but that depth
of vision. Right? It's the samereason you love taking your
walks.
There's more stuff to look at,which means that you're more

(59:14):
excited by the conversation andthe relationship.

Rob Lee (59:17):
100%. And, the last thing I'll I'll kinda chime in.
And before I move to the rapidfire, because you technically
just got that last one for me,so that's great. Last thing I'll
chime in on is this. You know, Ihad that this past week.
I was sharing with you sort ofme playing catch up with the
sleep hours, and it started onFriday. No. Actually, Saturday.

(59:38):
I got up with one of my buddiesI know in DC from the whole, you
know, fundraising thing. Ioriginally reached out to him.
I'm like, yo. Y'all got moneydown here? That was literally
what the conversation startedoff as. And, you know, we were
chopping it up and then we metin person and then, you know, we
have the same government lastname and all of this different
stuff and I was like, this isinteresting. And, you know,

(59:58):
you're just like just choppingit up, just very base level
stuff And we we met up in personand and all of that stuff.
Kane kinda just fostered andbuilt, like, a a friendship
thing. And as you get older, youyou're you're like, how do you
make your friends in in thosethose few places? It's, you
know, work, it's maybe gym, itmaybe church or whatever the
thing is, or you just don't havefriends. And, you know, he hits

(01:00:20):
me up a couple months ago, andhe's like, yo, going to this
wrestling show, with with mywith my girl. Do you and your
partner wanna come down?
And we we kinda did. My mypartner had never gone to a
wrestling show, and I was like,yeah. You should come down here.
We we we

Alexander Madaus (01:00:34):
Are we talking like a WWE type of thing?

Rob Lee (01:00:37):
Yeah. It was a WWE type of thing.

Get out of here. Oh my god.

Rob Lee (01:00:41):
So so we go down, it was vengeance day to be exact.
So we go down and we're sittingin different areas. It is, you
know, kind of a to do. It's kindof a hassle. All of this
different stuff is going to DC.
And, and we're we're therewatching the show and I'm just
giving her, like, yeah. This iswho this person is. This is this
person's style and this is whatthey do, all of this different
stuff. And I pinged my man's,and I was like, hey. You went

(01:01:05):
good to meet your guys at thefront.
We're gonna get dinner afterthis. Right? And yeah. And he
was like, yeah. You ride withus.
We drove over here. I was like,fantastic. We wait in the
parking lot for an hour becausethat's how bad traffic was. So
we missed our dinnerreservations because it was just
so crazy, you know, that sort oftiming. And we just ended up
going to get pizza at some spot,and we really didn't hang out
too much other than that sort ofcon time of congestion in the

(01:01:27):
car.
But, you know, we were able justto kinda riff and talk and so
on. And I felt that we all cameout of it feeling like it was a
good time even though we didn'tdo anything. We didn't sit
together at the wrestling show.We didn't make it to dinner. We
just sat there in traffic,essentially.
And it was that. And, you know,I told a few folks the next day
because we went to a concert thenext day that, like, why are you
guys down here? And it's like,oh, I was down here to see some

(01:01:48):
friends, and they were sayingthat that, you know, three
different people. That's reallyawesome that you came in here to
visit some friends. People don'tdo that anymore.
So right there. Right there. Allof that to get to that point of
just it's not a thing. Peopledon't go out and spend times,
and and and that is relates inbusiness, that relates in
collaboration, that relates inall of these different things.

(01:02:10):
We work with people that we knowwhat you do.
Do I feel good working with you?Do I feel good talking with you?
And I applied that in goingthrough who I wanted to reach
out to for interviews again. Youknow what I mean? Like, some
people are just like, alright.
That's this is a challengingconversation. And other people
are just like, this is reallyeasy. I could talk for four
hours to you. And, so, yeah,it's it's definitely a thing,

(01:02:31):
and I think connection is one ofthe key things that I'm I'm
taking out of this, the spaceand how how one feels about just
what's around us. So, yeah,

I think

Rob Lee (01:02:41):
we got it. I think we got it in that regard. So let me
do this with you real quick. Igot four rapid fire questions
with you. Yes.
Four rapid fire questions foryou rather. So if you want me to

(01:03:03):
come with you. Alright. Here wego. Cool.

Alright. Hang on. Let me gotta get in my rapid
fire position. Get my in

Rob Lee (01:03:10):
a rapid fire position. It's like you gotta brace
yourself, engage the core. Yeah.So I read that plants enjoy
music. So maybe it's the one infront of you, you know, your
favorite plant.
What is their what's theirgenre? What's their favorite
genre?

Oh. Alright. Generally, we're, like, a lo fi
Latin jazz type of household.Music is one of the most
important things for me. And Idon't know if they like it, but
they're all growing really well.
But I think and, like, this isjust, like, my own so,
definitely, I think that musicis plants are affected by music.

(01:03:45):
Right? Because it's sound waves.Right? Like, they are going to
feel it.
We'll take the fiddle leaf figfor instance. Right? That thing
grows on the hills of theMediterranean. If you have one
at home and it's not doing well,that's honestly par for the
course because they actuallyrequire you to grab the trunk
and shake the tree back andforth. Because that because they
grow on the with, like, thehills of the Mediterranean when

(01:04:07):
the wind comes and blows them,that sends a signal to the plant
that it has to grow roots.

Rob Lee (01:04:12):
Yeah.

So I think whether or not that it's about,
like, whether the plants likemusic, I like to pretend that
they do because I talk to themand you absolutely have to. I
think that they love the music.Put something on with, like, a
little bit of, like, heavy bassin it, and I think that they're
really gonna enjoy it becauseit's gonna shake them up a
little bit. Right? It's gonnait's gonna make them feel like
the ground is alive again.

Rob Lee (01:04:31):
I love it. It makes sense. It's a good answer. What
time do you usually wake up inthe morning?

Five thirty, and it's because of the cats.

Rob Lee (01:04:39):
You get it. You get it. The 05:30 gang. Let's see. This
this one is ridiculous.
Whether it's Chad GPT or Google,what's a common or reoccurring
search for you? Oh. I'm alwayslooking at macros. What's the
macros in these these almonds?

Oh, god. No. No. No. No.
No. It's it's oh, bro. It'sabout it's spelling shit. I I, I
before e. That rule, man, I wasnot an English student.
I can't tell you how many timesI have to, like, Google a word
to, like, know how to spell it.And sometimes it's one that's,

(01:05:22):
like, a little bit more complex.Right?

Rob Lee (01:05:23):
Yeah. A lot

of times it's the word receive. But we all
we've all got one or two, andI'm not gonna I can't. Oh, I
wish that it was somethingbetter than that. I wish it
were, like, something jobrelated. No.
It's like how to spell wordssometimes.

Rob Lee (01:05:39):
See. Look. Look. See. Because I I sometimes I have a
way with words.
I'm like, I have trouble withthe word receive because I'm a
giver.

Old. See?

Rob Lee (01:05:48):
See? Great. I have a mugging background. Alright.
This is the last one I got foryou.
And and I and I found a placerecently. I'll I'll I'll share
I'll share, notes with you afterwe wrap here. But, you know, you
you touched on, like, hey. Maybegoing for a date or something
like that. What is one of yourfavorite date spots in

(01:06:09):
Baltimore?
Oh.

So right now, our favorite date spot is
Patterson Pub, Patterson PublicHouse. Right? We live, like,
right next to Patterson Park. Ilove walking, so we spend a lot
of time, like, walking aroundthere, but Patterson Pub is the
reason that we moved out toHighland Town. I don't know if
you've been there yet.
If you have, I don't know if youhave tried. They've got brussels
sprouts. And if you were like meas a kid, turn your nose up,

(01:06:35):
you're like, do a little bit ofgag, they're brussels sprouts.
We were I was living over inFellows Point, we walked over
here, it was a rainy day andwe're like, let's duck into this
pub really quick. Not really Imean, like, it's it's beautiful
on the inside.
I hope that they hear this, andit's like, I love everything
that you do. But the brusselssprouts, it's with fondue
cheese, dried cranberries, andwalnuts, and they just, like,

(01:06:58):
they'll toast the brusselssprouts instead of fry them, and
it changed my life. And, mypartner and I, we love playing
Magic the Gathering. So, like,we'll bring our decks there.
We'll, like, get a couple ofbeers.
We'll have, like, our brusselssprouts and whatever whatever
else looks nice, but just likesharing a couple of appetizers
is our favorite way to eat.Because the biggest part about

(01:07:19):
it is just socializing andgetting to play. And so I mean,
we'll play games at home all thetime too, but it's nice to like
go out and play a game. So myfavorite date is we've got Magic
the Gathering and, a bowl ofbrussels sprouts in front of us.
That does not sound thatappealing.

Rob Lee (01:07:33):
I was just I was see, here's the thing. I I was with
you. I was like, yeah. That's agood idea. I might apply that.
I was like, you don't know howto play Magic the Gathering for
one, bro.

Oh, no. You can bring any game. Look. They
got games there. It's just andit's also just very fun for me
to bring games out placesbecause we started it because,
like, I don't know.
You're, like, out on a date.It's fun to, like, chitchat, but
I always need an activity.Right? And, like, unfortunately
now, like, I feel like a lot ofthat activity has just become
like on my phone. And so inorder to like not do that, to
keep it going, to keep usfocused, having a game there was

(01:08:03):
really nice.
But it's also a great way to getto talk to people. Like whether
or not it's magic or likestrategic or whatever the hell
you bring with you, someone'sgonna ask you about it.
Someone's gonna say like, ohman, I love that game. And then,
I don't know, you get your youget their number. Next time you
go back, you hit them up.
If you're if you're looking,it's just like, hey, we're gonna
go there and play some Stratego.You wanna like come by? And

(01:08:24):
that's friends and that'sfriends and that's how we make
friends at thirty one.

Rob Lee (01:08:27):
That's that's great. Try it at forty. You just get
back pain and knee pain. That'sit.

Oh, look. I'm already there with him, but I'm
just, I don't know. It's, it'sbeen, like, the the smallest
thing that has helped me. Imean, it's how we got so close
with, like, the people inMeander. Right?
You just go there, you playgames, you hang out for a while,
and I don't know. Eventually,you meet somebody.

Rob Lee (01:08:48):
That's great. And and and that's where we'll wrap. So
there's two things I wanna dohere. One, I wanna thank you for
coming back on. This has beenjust loads of fun.
Really good to to chat it upand, and catch up. And and two,
I wanna invite and encourage youto share with the listeners any
final details, website, socialmedia, any of that stuff that,
you know, for folks to check outall things, cultivated. So the

(01:09:11):
floor is yours.

Yeah. Absolutely. So, again, my name
is Alexander Medes. What I do iscalled biophilic interior
design, and you can DM me formore information about that.
Instagram, we are at StudioCultivated.
That is also our website,studiocultivated.com. Things to
keep your eyes out for, we'vegot our Biophilic Design
Workbook, which is going to be afree download. I'm going to be

(01:09:32):
putting that out later on thisweek. So by the time this
podcast comes out, it will beavailable on our website. Please
go check it out.
I'm always looking for feedback.But just like you and I ran
through today, Rob, it justgives you, like, a lot of
little, like, tools andopportunities to, like, meditate
on yourself. Right? And, like,understand a little bit more
about you and what you need fromyour environment to start
bringing that in. I'm working ona couple of other booklets, just

(01:09:56):
about design in general, talkinga lot about the philosophy of
it.
We also do have our consultationservices, which you'd like to
gauge with that. That's on ourwebsite and all of that. Big
thing, though, keep an eye out.I'm always trying to do
community classes, whether it'sterrariums, whether or not it's
going to be the free designclass that we're hosting. All of
that is going to be up on ourInstagram.

(01:10:16):
So follow us there, and, yeah,hopefully, we'll be seeing you
soon. Oh, and art club, thirdThursday every month, Meander
Art Bar, eighteen o one EastLumbar Street, six PM. See you
there.

Rob Lee (01:10:27):
And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank
Alexander Medeas from CultivatedStudio for coming back onto the
podcast and catching up with me.And for Alexander Medeas, I am
Rob Lee saying that there's art,culture and community in and
around your neck of the woods,you just have to look for it.

It.

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#10 – How Does Biophilic Design Bring Nature Indoors? | Alex Madaus

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#10 – How Does Biophilic Design Bring Nature Indoors? | Alex Madaus