#17 – Can Stone Carving Capture Modern Stories? | Sebastian Martorana - The Truth In This Art: Stories That Matter

Episode Transcript
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Rob Lee (00:11):
Welcome back to The Truth in His Art, your source
for conversations joining arts,culture, and community. These
are stories that matter, and Iam your host, Rob Lee. Thank you
so much for being here today. Mynext guest is a Baltimore based
carver, illustrator, sculptor,and educator who transforms
stone into stunning works ofart. His work keeps pieces of

(00:33):
the city's history alive throughcarving.
We last spoke back in 2022, andI'm excited to reconnect to see
what's new in his world. Pleasewelcome back to the program,
SEBASTIAN MARTORANA. Welcomeback to the podcast.

SEBASTIAN MARTORANA (00:46):
Thanks for having me, Rob.

Rob Lee (00:47):
Thank you for thank you for coming on. Thank you for,
for making the time. And, youknow, it's been a it's been a
lot of time a little bit. Youknow, since we last talked, it's
been about three years. I thinkwe talked back in 2022.
And that year, you know,frankly, was a blur for me as I
was talking about a little bitbefore we got started. That was
the year 03/1928 or somethingepisodes that went out that

(01:11):
year. I was doing almost anepisode a day.

That's a brutal schedule.

Rob Lee (01:16):
I chose it. You know, it's just it's just flogging
myself, but, you know, audibly.But if you will, for folks who
haven't dove back, and theyshould dove back and listen to
your your your first, interviewhere, but could you, you know,
reintroduce yourself to thefolks listening? And, I have a
second point, but I'd like togive you a little space and time

(01:36):
to introduce yourself, and thenI'll go into the second
question.

Alright. Sure. Well, I'm Sebastian. I'm a
local artist. I primarily workin, sculpture, mostly carving of
primarily stone.
But I'm also, you know, aneducator, designer, and
illustrator. So I kindafortunate to get into a lot of
different things, but my I wouldsay the preponderance of my work

(02:01):
is in, marble carving.

Rob Lee (02:04):
Thank you. So in that that time, like, I've I I think
I've seen you maybe once ortwice in the city. Like, is this
all because like like we weretalking about, I was like,
there's the guy. I have a pet.And, you know, could you share
could you share, like, over, youknow I I like to look at the
scope of the last five years,you know, because there may have

(02:26):
been some stuff that I missed inthe first interview.
But over the last five years,you know, what are some of the
the biggest changes or evenmilestones that have happened in
your your art career, like, thatstick out? You can limit it to
the last three or the last five,but what's some of the bigger
things that stick out for youfor your work over the last
number of years?

Well, if we were sending it to even before
that point into those fiveyears, I'd say, you know, it's
been I mean, the short answer isit's been really good. I've been
steadily getting busier and,which is has allowed me to be,
you know, more selective, bothwith showing and with the more

(03:05):
kind of commissionedinstitutional stuff. And that's
both institutional commissionsand private commissions. You
know, in the last five years,I've gotten some of the most
interesting institutional work.I guess I should sorry about
that.
I would say my work kinda is isa combination of the more fine

(03:29):
art sculptural stuff and then,like, the work that is for
generally what I I think of asinstitutional work, and that's
often, governmental, academic,or ecclesiastical work.

Rob Lee (03:39):
Sure.

And in the last five years, I've gotten to
work on some pretty big projectswith some governmental agencies,
some stuff with some colleges,universities, and then also some
other things with, basicallysome work for the National Park
Service. So, you know, one ofthe kind of, I guess,
essentially, some of them I canI can discuss on the podcast for

(04:02):
the record? Some of them Ican't. One of them I I know I
can, is that I think it mighthave been actually in 02/2022.
Yeah.
Just over three years ago. WhenI kind of, took over working on
the, doing the engraving at theVietnam Veterans Memorial Wall

(04:24):
in DC. And so that was a real,you know, interesting, project
to become involved with becauseit really is only you know, it
it had the previous engraver,for reference, had been on the
job for thirty five years. So,you know, it doesn't change over
very much. So it's a bigresponsibility, and a real honor
to be asked.

(04:45):
And so like every job I dothat's institutional, it affects
my, know, my personal work. Youknow, just learning the process
and learning about it and havingtime to think on that job as I
do it affects the work that I domyself personally, both in terms
of, like, focal point and alsoin terms of, you know, equipment

(05:05):
and tools and skills and thingsthat I learned for that job, you
know, because it is so veryspecific, in terms of what's
being done there, how it's beingdone, the equipment being used.
You know, it's even though, youknow, you're invited to look at
these things for a reasonbecause you have that kind of
experience, but every job isunique. So I got to learn or I I

(05:28):
essentially had to essentiallylearn a slightly new skill set,
and so learning those new toolsand techniques has you know, it
always infiltrates what I'mdoing personally. And, also,
because of the nature of thatwork, because it is so
important, I it made me wannabring more things in house under

(05:50):
under my umbrella.
So I was able to maintain andprovide all the equipment in the
various, like, again, uniquethings necessary to do that job
myself. So building up some ofthose skill sets and,
capabilities in my own shop, orat least in my own studio, which
is in another, stone shop herein Baltimore. You know, my my

(06:10):
studio is housed withinHillgarter Natural Stone
Company, which is its own stonefabrication shop.

Rob Lee (06:17):
Yeah. And and thank you. Because I think this this
definitely leads into sort ofthis next question, but I wanna
comment first on, yeah, I Ithink when you when you were
describing sort of, like, thedifferent requirements for
certain projects, you have touse this tool, you have to use
sort of maybe this technique andso on and, you know, working
within sort of parameters andhow that perhaps, you know,

(06:38):
affects sort of, you know, thetime that you have to do your
own personal, like, sort of workor what have you. And, you know,
I did the education thing, so Ican add educator to mine. So if
someone does my byline, I cansay, you know, Rob Lee,
educator, professor Rob, andwhich which is kinda cool, but,
you know, I I think during thattime, actually, when I was when

(06:59):
I was teaching, I had to learnhow to use other equipment, test
it out there, and serve as aproducer for folks and just do
different things to aspecification.
I do so much of this that Ikinda cook on my own, and it's
just like I know what I'm doing,but when it's maybe you're
you're you're I'm working in acapacity of serving a certain

(07:19):
purpose for someone. Hey. Weneed a podcast produced. I don't
necessarily need you to host it,but also I'm kinda hosting it as
well. It's me figuring out howto give them what they need,
especially in this sort ofclient relationship, while also
being able to stretch theboundaries of what I do.
Because sometimes folks don'tknow what the hell they're
using. They're like, oh, yeah.You just need to do this. And

(07:41):
it's like, no. No.
I got something real cool forthis. Or, you know, it's like,
so I have no idea how to how touse some of this this gear and
some of this technology. I'llnow try to learn it. Like, I got
these Rode mics, for instance.Never use those.
I think it's just social mediamics. Right? I just see all of
these broccoli hit teenagers,you know, as a fellow guy with a

(08:01):
haircut. You know, thesebroccoli hit a teenager just
wearing the the same little clipon mic, and I kinda, like, hate
them just because they're youth.But now I use them because the,
the little box that they come inhas two receivers it is a
receiver and two microphones.
So it's very small. Like, I'malways about being utilitarian.
So if I can get smaller in it,but I have to go through and do

(08:24):
my mic checks differently, Idon't even actually have
physical mics. I have theselittle clip on devices which
sound

great. So

Rob Lee (08:30):
I've learned and changed that over the time, but
brought it driven by workingwith a client and having to meet
certain specifications.

Oh, yeah. I mean, the equipment tool like,
that's that's everything. Andeven, like, you know, anyone,
any craftsperson you talk to,artists, they're gonna be a tool
nerd for all this stuff. And,like, the size of things, you
know, honestly, I, you know,again, I don't know if this is
on topic or not, but, like, onejob that I've I've been doing

(08:58):
for a long time now over, gosh,better part of a decade or more,
is I do all the carving up atSaint Patrick's in in New York
City. And that you know, it's abeautiful building, but it's
old.
It's like a 50 years old. And soit's something you don't think
about is, like,

Rob Lee (09:15):
there's not a ton

of outlets on a gothic cathedral floor. And
so when I first began that job,obviously, I need lighting to
work where I'm working, and, Imean, I went traveled up there
with a 50 feet of drop cord toplug in clamp lights on things
so I could work. And I I didthis a couple times. I thought,
what what am I doing? And so allthis research into basically

(09:39):
mobile, you know, LED lights andthe different wavelengths and
the warmth and what's gonna workand what's gonna replicate the
light that I need, and then thebattery cells that work these
things and, like, all this kindof stuff that I use now for all
kinds of things in in my worknormally.
But, like, again, like you say,pairing it down, making it
efficient so that way I can hopup there. Everything's done by

(09:59):
hand. So it's like, I'm notrolling up there in a work van.
I'm going up I'm taking thetrain, and I have a tool bag.
And, like, a lot of that appliesto other things that I do now,
but, like, my kit can get verysmall depending on what I'm
doing if it is small detailwork.
You know, I'm I need a a toolbag. That is it. And because of

(10:21):
the technology and the, youknow, rightsizing of those
things.

Rob Lee (10:26):
There's a universe. This is really off topic, but
there's a universe with theaesthetic in which you just
described with having that smallbag and taking the train up. You
could be a John Wick likeassassin, like one of, like, the
ancillary characters. Yeah.There's the cover right there.
See? It it works. It just works.

Well yeah. I mean, that basically I'm like,
I it's you know you know, theall the the ushers all know me,
and they I'd you know, do theyknow my name? Maybe. But they
know I'm the carver, and I showup a couple times a year, and I
do my job, and I get out. So

Rob Lee (10:56):
It's it's right there.

If if, if there's a John Wick analogy to
be made in this universe, I'mall about it.

Rob Lee (11:04):
Look. I I mean, when the movie gets made, someone
listens to this podcast, I needto wet my beak. You need to wet
your beak as well. We need towet our beaks. So and and this
is and this is sort of where thequestions and I think you
touched on it, but if you youhave, like, one really specific
way, and it might be the pairingdown of things.
But how has your creativeprocess evolved over, like, the

(11:27):
last few years? And, you know,has environment as you you
touched on, like, your your yourspace, how has that, like, maybe
influenced in how you approachyour work and the perspectives
around your work?

You know, I'll be honest. I'm not sure I
know or I can say how my owncreative process has evolved.
You know? It's like, it it wouldbe like, you know, again, asking
an animal how their ownevolution occurred. I I really
don't know.
I may may not be fully aware ofit. I know circumstances around

(12:00):
me have changed and evolved. Ithink the the biggest, like,
overarching thing is, whichprobably came up in our previous
conversation, is that time. Youknow, time is the thing that I
am constantly trying to manageand balance, and I never, like,
I never have enough of thatthing. You know, the I'm very

(12:22):
lucky to have, like, so muchwork and a great support system
and, like, an awesome, you know,spouse, and my children are
doing great.
And, like, that's all awesome.And it's, like, trying to
balance that with the work thatI do genuinely enjoy doing, and
then being more present forthose things outside of the

(12:42):
work, you know, which is thething that you're always
generally asked about in theseinterviews like this. But it's
like, the bandwidth that I canbasically what's the word I'm
looking for? Provide to each oneof those important aspects is
really tough. I think a bigthing that maybe changed in
terms of how I function, on aday to day basis really has

(13:05):
nothing to do with the work.
My my wife got a new job,somewhat recently. And prior to
that point, because really ofCOVID, she had been working at
home. And so as we came out ofthat space, you know, everyone's
kind of been readjusting to thattransition in this essentially,
you know, post COVID, but wehave all of the skills and the
abilities of, you know, say,mobile work and things like that

(13:27):
that we developed during thattime. You know, there's
artifacts of virtual learning.For instance, I still currently
use when I teach.
Yeah. But she transitioned fromworking almost exclusively at
home to now exclusively in anoffice that's farther away than
my studio. And so suddenly, itwas like, you know, on the one

(13:48):
hand, it's an excellentsituation for us. It was a great
opportunity for her, but, youknow, I'm very much now the
number one. You know?
I'm I'm an emergency contactperson. I'm the one that's like,
if there's, like, someone sick,there's a snow day, you know,
school's closed for some reason,that's me. I'm on that, which on
the one hand, I love because I'mable to have a more flexible

(14:12):
schedule maybe than the averageperson unless I'm physically
traveling for work. But it does,you know, just pare down the
amount of time you have forstuff. And so, you know, one
kind of thing that happenshappened to some other reason.
I don't know, if we talked aboutthis before. Like, I kinda had
to step back from, like, forinstance, social media for a

(14:36):
while. Yeah. I haven't been on,you know, Instagram, for
instance, for instance, in maybea few months now just because
you know, not not for the reasonpeople would assume, like, the
largely terrible news cyclewe're in, but I just it I real
I'm just trying to look, like,to strategize, like, where my my
fourth quarter last year wascrazy. It's was the busiest of

(14:59):
my career.
And on the one hand, that'sgreat. But on the other hand, it
was like, I don't have enoughhours in the day. How can I
physically look at my scheduleand build more time into it? I
can't I can't extend I can'tslow down time. I wonder if I
could.
I can't. And my work does, byits own nature, take a long
time. So I was like, well, whatam I wasting time on? And I'm

(15:22):
like, well, maybe it's this. AndI'm like, if I'm not looking at
my phone all the time andchecking up or getting
notifications, So I was justlike, we're gonna go off of
that.
And so, you know, sometime, Idon't know, probably December, I
was just, like, walked away. AndI know I'll I'll obviously get
back on it before this airs so Ican promote it with you. But,

(15:42):
but it truly it was just like, Ineed to it was just how do I
manufacture more time in my dayto get done the things that are
truly responsibilities because Iwas like, well, what is the
social media for? For for me,it's really it's a an outreach.
It's a promotional thing.
It's it's professional. Right?And, you know, maybe maybe it
worked a little too well for alittle while, and I've I gotta

(16:05):
catch up on the commitments I'vemade, to these what are, again,
really interesting projects andthings that I'm able to do and
be involved in and step backfrom the thing that is there to
produce them for a little bitjust so that I can actually work
on the work. You know?

Rob Lee (16:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. That is that's really that's
really good.
I you know, like, people talkabout, you know, sort of time
being a a a challenge. And Iremember years ago, we're
skimming, through, I think theformal work week. And I was just
like, I got the concept that Igot what I needed out of it at

(16:41):
that time. Right? And one of thethings that I've applied to
doing this, and I I referencedwhen we first had the interview
back in 2022, And that year, Ikinda wrapped up the year.
I think I did creative mornings.Right? And there were a number
of folks who are like, so whenyou're taking a break, though,
because you're super busy. And Itook you know, it's a it's a

(17:04):
it's a badge, right, of, like,being very busy and so on. But I
was thinking about it.
I was just like, yeah, I am verybusy. And it even sort of the
behind the curtains of it all. Ihave the day job. I have a real
life, you know, outside of doingthis. And, you know, when I do
my prep, I lament over thesequestions over and over again.
Like, I might put into two hoursof worth of time for these

(17:25):
questions. So, you know, youstart looking at doing a certain
number of interviews that I wasdoing at that time, almost one
per day. That's an extra, youknow, two hours per day that's
going in that area. And let'ssay you have something that
happens. Let's say you gottawait here for Comcast.
You get you're late goingsomewhere. You have those those
different time sucks in tryingto make time work for you. And

(17:47):
now I I think I have a betterhandle on time, but I had to
make that effort, to maybe trimdown the number. It's like, it's
really important, and I reallyenjoy it because that's the
that's the key thing. But goingfrom three, whatever that number
was, to $1.75 the following yearand then last year, one zero

(18:07):
seven.
And this year, I'm I'm trying tocommit to doing under 75. And,
you know, part of it is spendingtime and attention to it, but
also giving myself time to keepthe batteries charged, be
refreshed. And, you know, also,I took those breaks from social
media as well because I justfound like I wasn't enjoying the
experience as much. And, youknow, it's a it's a time suck in

(18:30):
some regards. Now, hey.
You know, I'll see thatengagement goes down. Rob, you
haven't posted any new episodesfor a while. Sure. You know,
here here is it's it's onSpotify. It's on Apple.
You can find it there, actually.But looking at those spots where
you can save time, manipulatetime, and move it around, I'm
fortunate to live very close tomy day job, so I don't really

have a

Rob Lee (18:52):
commute. But, you know, if I'm trying to fit this in,
which is a whole otherundertaking, a lot of people
think this is the full time gigbecause I'm so pronounced in
what I do. It's just like I'mreally good at manipulating
time. But when there's a newthing inserted, you gotta figure
it out. And I digest always intweaking.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. I mean, I'm very
fortunate that what I'm doinggenerally like, what people see
that I'm doing, like, that isthat is my day job. That's my
thing. But that means I when,you know, you don't have a day
job, I'm a freelancer.
Right? I'm I'm a independentcontractor, essentially. And so
while, you know, on the onehand, I've had friends that'll

(19:32):
be like, I mean, you never haveto apply for a job. You're so
I'm like, what are you talkingabout? I have to apply for jobs

Rob Lee (19:38):
All the time.

Dozens of times a year. Every project is a
new job. I'm having to writeproposals and field emails and
and and sift what is good. And,you know, maybe that's the you
know, maybe that answers yourquestion really is, like, what's
been the best or the mostsignificant developments over
the last few years? I've beenI've been very fortunate, with
some, you know, work of minegetting into some really great

(20:03):
collections, a couple new museumcollections, and then the
commission work also beingreally picking up, which has
been great, but I've been ableto be more selective and say to
people honestly, like, hey.
You know what? I might not bethe best fit for this. Right.
And if I know that a job iseither I'm just not suited for

(20:23):
it or I just don't wanna do it,I'm able to fill that time with
something else. So, you know,getting to that place where I
have I I mean, I've always hadkind of a backlog, but, really,
a a backlog, a docket of work ofjobs that I'm all I'm really
excited about all of them andthe commission works the that

(20:43):
I'm able to be selective with.
So if I'm spending time like, ifI'm putting chisel time into it,
man, I really wanna be doing it.It's really interesting. I'm
very excited about it everytime. And so maybe that's the,
like, the biggest, you know,transition, you know, that it's
just kind of I feel like I'm I'mtrying to maintain space in the

(21:06):
barrel of that wave right now.It's going really well.
And so Yeah. Trying to to keepstay in that sweet spot, which
is tough. So who knows? Maybestepping back from social media,
I'll find out was a mistake atsome point. But who knows?
And and and that's such a crazylandscape too anyway, because I
was like, maybe I picked theright time to step back because

(21:26):
things got have gotten a littleweird with, you know, the the
algorithms and the advent of AIand how it's affected content
and the manipulation ofviewership, you know, that kind
of stuff. So it's like, andmaybe a little this stuff sorted
itself out a little bit,Because, again, I know it sounds
like I'm being very negativeabout, social media, and I don't

(21:48):
mean to be because I think it isit's a great tool. And I know I
get work from it, and I thinkwhen it operates at its highest
level, it's done what it's beenable to do for me. Like, there's
people I've, like, met online. II just did air quotes there for
the listeners.
Okay. But I then I meet them inreal life. I've met these people
in real life. I've done realwork with them, real projects.

(22:10):
It's not just a matter of, like,let's meet and follow each other
to, like, you know, promotethings in a Internet space that
is, you know, liminal, and wedon't really know.
Like, no. We're doing real work.I have real relationships with
people whose work I trulyrespect. But the genesis of that
relationship was on Instagram,for instance, you know, because

(22:32):
that's how we became aware ofone another. So on that level,
it's an incredible tool.
So I don't mean to to make itsound like a negative thing, but
I did realize. I was like, wow.I've been I'm spending too much
time paying attention to stuffor looking at things or
responding to you know? And soyeah. And maybe this is a good
place to put out a public, hey.

Rob Lee (22:51):
I'm sorry if I haven't gotten back

to x y z message or request or email or I
I try to be more responsive, butyou get a lot of you get a lot
of messages. You know?

Rob Lee (23:05):
I know. No. I I I hear you. And, you know, I I think in
in sort of doing this, like, thethe IRL version of it, as you
were you were touching on thereof, like, did I meet you in
person? Like, that's the thingthat in part I really wanted to
insert in this this season, thisthis this series of interviews
of like more insight.
But, you know, what does it looklike in the real life, the

(23:27):
people that are behind the work?And, you know, one of the things
that I've kinda learned in beingout there more and more, you
talked about, like, chisel time.It was like, I'm gonna put this
time into it. Socializing inreal life is very challenging
for me at times. I'm like, yo,I'm awkward.
We're tall. People say weirdstuff to me sometimes. I'm like,

Well, I don't have that problem, the the
tall thing.

Rob Lee (23:51):
I you've seen me in person, so you know, like, a
giant bear person just walking.And because they they they
they'll hear me, they're like,oh, that's the Rob Lee guy, you
know. I was like, yeah. I'm I'mI'm trying to drink this this
whiskey real quick. Can you not,you know.
And so so in it, there's almostthis nice. There's almost this
sort of belief that, you know,one is on and not a real real

(24:13):
person. So if I'm gonna come outand I'm gonna pop up at
someone's thing, it's likeeither I rock with you, but that
is something that you touchedon. The awareness maybe come,
you know, online, but it's likedid we grab a coffee? Did we
chat in real life?
Can we potentially collaborateon something? How can I help
you? And all of these differentthings moving in the future.
It's about relationships. Andthat's the thing that I've

(24:36):
learned over the last few yearsbecause the online thing will
make you think that we're allfriends.
We are not. You know, we we weare aware of each other, and
maybe there is the prospect ofof friendship and deeper
connection and maybe communityas people always, you know,
touch on. And and that's thething that I'm really curious of
exploring, you know, in in a lotof these interviews and a lot of

(24:59):
these conversations, you know,over the last few years. Mhmm.

Yeah. I mean, it's a it's a tricky it's
a tricky space. You know? And,like, again, I I'm not by nature
someone who I'm not, like, Ithink by eight by nature an
extrovert. I would much ratherspend all day every day by
myself in my studio.
I'm like one of those peoplewhere it's like, if I've said

(25:24):
less than a hundred words a day,that's a good day. I'm into
that. And and often my days arethat way, and it's it's
fantastic. But I also will,like, for instance, you know,
when you're talking aboutreaching out to people to do
this kind of thing, theseinterviews, I also am well, I'm
a professional, and I understandthat part of me not having a day

(25:45):
job and a boss is that I need tomake sure I am doing this kind
of thing and talking to peoplebecause I am genuinely
interested in you know? Like,there's not a lot of people that
are truly excited about theirwork on a day to day basis, and
I do not take it for grantedthat I am one of those people.
So, you know, I don't think thethe trope of, like, the

(26:09):
reclusive artist who stays intheir studio and, you know,
wears black and doesn't talk is,like, a real like, we've all
seen those, you know, moviesfrom the early two thousands
about the You got

Rob Lee (26:20):
a black shirt on? That's fine. Just a

Right. Right.

Rob Lee (26:23):
Right. Right.

But, but, yeah, I mean, like, you can't,
you know and I I talk to my ownstudents about this. It's like,
the idea that people are gonnachase after you indefinitely is
a little silly. Like, you needto be able to be out there, and
part of your job is to be ableto discuss your work in a way
that people understand howdeeply you do care about it. You

(26:46):
know? So while I would prefer aworld where the art did all the
talking for me, I know I don'tactually necessarily live in
that world, and maybe that'sjust an aspirational a place I
need to get to where the thingsI'm creating are powerful enough
that I do not have to speakabout them all the time.
But I just, I haven't gottenthere yet.

Rob Lee (27:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I hear this thing. I I I was, I've
been diving back in to up to adegree because sometimes I get
tight about it.
But, you know, as far as what'shappening, because I had these
conversations and, you know,relistening to because I did
audiobooks of, Death of theArtist. The one thing that
William DeRozowicz is talkingabout in there, he's like, oh,
yeah. You know, you have to havethe life style of being an

(27:29):
author, the lifestyle of beingan artist. So you have to do
those sit downs and the socialmedia and the rollout, the BTS
material, and you're actuallynot working on the thing that
you're you're doing.

And Right.

Rob Lee (27:40):
That's that's the thing that you're you're touching on.
It's like, if I could, like andeven doing this, it's like I
talk all the time now. I don'ttalk this much in real life.
Like, oh, can we? So I want tomove into this next question.
I find like what you do to besomewhere between like wizardry,

(28:01):
alchemy. It's you're a wizard,sir. You're a wizard. And and I
read that there's a is thisbelief, you know, I read that
belief is a prerequisite ofability. Is that is that true
for you?
Like, you need to at leastbelieve that you could do
something that looks reallychallenging, but you're like,
alright. I think this could bedone. I believe I can do it. I

(28:22):
think I have the talent for it.And, now it's opportunity to
problem solve as you weretalking about with sort of maybe
I'm not the person for this orwhat have you, but, you know,
sort of when you know that I cando this.
I'm not sure how, but I can dothis.

You know, it I'm not sure it's interesting
concept, the idea of whether ornot belief breeds ability. You
know, I think if I'm beinghonest, it might kinda be the
other way around. You know?Because curiosity and I guess
I'm I'm going bay maybe back toofar to, like, essentially

(29:00):
childhood or young adulthood.But, you know, ability, I think,
probably I don't I mean, again,I don't wanna be totally
contrarian, but I feel like Iwould guess that ability breeds
belief more than the other wayaround in the sense that if you
can find something that, a,you're curious about and then
you start learning about it anddoing it, practicing and

(29:22):
building a skill set, then yourealize, yeah, I can do this
thing.
I believe I can probably do thisother stuff too. So just like
these projects where I getbrought into, like, well, yeah,
I'm an experienced stone carverat this point, for instance. I'm
an experienced wood carver, butI don't fully know. But because
I've figured out these otherthings, I've done this other

(29:43):
stuff for these other reasons,with these other stakes
involved. And, you know,sometimes those are a timeline
situation or a size or materialsituation or a, like, well,
we've got a building that is,you know, over a century old and
it's irreplaceable, don't messit up situation.
Those things, the ability to dothose, which I guess is just the

(30:06):
experience of having done them,that in my mind, tends to build
the belief Yeah. Maybe it's theconfidence, right or wrong, that
I can figure out the otherstuff. I'm gonna make it work.
You know? In this and and when Iknow I don't know something, I'm
like, alright.
I'm gonna ask someone who doesknow, who does. So that's been,

(30:27):
I think, helpful over the lastfew years too. I've been I've,
you know, gotten someinteresting projects, and I've
been able to collaborate withsome other interesting, artists
who who know more than I doabout stuff. You know? For
instance, I do a ton of woodcarving.
I love that. But and recently,I've gotten a lot of projects

(30:49):
like this. And one of them, youknow, something came up recently
for a local restaurant that justopened up that had something.
It's a long story, but it waslike a carving for something
that involved a lot ofrestoration, and it also
involved a lot of metalwork. Andit's like, I understand some
metal work.
I can weld, but I'm not awelder. I'm not a blacksmith.

(31:12):
And I'm also not really a woodI'm not a cabinet maker. I'm not
a I don't really understandjoinery. I'm not a, you know, a
marine grade boatmaker, allthose things.
So this particular projectinvolved aspects of that. I'm a
carver. I'm a designer. I can dotypography. I can do the the

(31:32):
chisel work, as we say.
And then I do a lot ofrestoration work as well. But
there were aspects where Ineeded to talk to my guy, you
know, Mike Clarkson, who is aprofessional woodworker. That's
what Mike does, and we've workedon other stuff together. We have
a history, and I trust him. Say,hey, man.
I have this situation. I needto, you know, reinforce this
thing, and, of course, Mikeknows. These are the products

(31:54):
you should use. This is the wayyou should do this thing. Same
project.
It needed, you know, to for thisparticular sign to stay
together, it needed a metal hugto to keep this whole thing
intact. And I was like, I'mreally not the right person to
do this, but my guy, Nick Irie,a professional blacksmith here

(32:14):
in Baltimore, he knows how to dothat. So I was able to bring him
into that, and it gave me theconfidence to say, I can do what
I do. I know what I am doing.I'm gonna do what I do well and
trust these other people tobring in their skill set.
So I think it's, like, theability of either being able to
do it yourself or get theprofessionals that do know what

(32:36):
they're doing. Like, I feelthat, like, the having that
ability builds the belief, ormaybe it builds the confidence
to say, yeah. I can figure thisout. I can tackle this or have
the knowledge to know when tosay, alright. This isn't gonna
work.
You know? That we can thisparticular idea for this thing,
that's a great idea, but that'snot gonna work. Let's pivot and
do it another way that is gonnawork, for everyone and where

(32:58):
everyone's gonna be happy withthe outcome.

Rob Lee (33:01):
No. That's that's good. That's that's a good way to to
describe it because I think Ithink that there there there is.
I think there's definitely asort of cyclical relationship
there because I find, like, attimes, if I go into something
thinking, like, I'm gonna I'mgonna screw this up, inevitably,
it just happens. And I can haveall of the experience.
Like, I've been doing this closeto two decades at this point,

(33:24):
but I still run into, like, youmight screw this up. You might
you might botch this or whathave you. But if I go in there
with sort of and maybe it's justpositive affirmation too. If I
go in there with sort of, like,the right mindset of, no. You
you got this.
You're gonna figure it out. Youknow? What what are the
limitations? What are theparameters and all of that? So I
think maybe with that thatquote, it's it's almost this you

(33:45):
almost have to start off withsomething.
You know? You can't just go inthere completely blind with no
ability. It's just like

Right.

Rob Lee (33:52):
Have some baseline ability.

Yeah. I mean, I I heard someone and,
again, this is probablysomething I saw as a clip on
Instagram or something, but itwas, you know, obviously, my
feed for a reason. But someonetalking about, like, as younger
people are, like, trying tofigure out their career path
and, of course, ideal. I teachone day a week only over over at
MICA, and I teach in theillustration department. And

(34:16):
that was my my undergraduatedegree.
And that's basically how I stillwork. Just happen to be working
in three dimensions. So dealingwith these students all the time
that are trying to figure outtheir current path, and this
person said something to theeffect, and I'm paraphrasing,
but basically the idea of, like,you know, we're while people are
often told, you know, followyour dreams, follow the thing

(34:38):
that you love, you know, followthe thing that maybe, you know,
you believe in, for instance,that's maybe not the best
advice. It's like, find what thething that you're really good
at. You You know?
Because it's pretty unlikelyyou're gonna be good at
something you don't love, youdon't really like. But if you
can find the thing that youhave, like, an aptitude for and
hone that, you know, becausethere's this, like, tricky

(35:01):
conversation between talent andskill. You know? I'm much more a
proponent of, like, building askill than a talent. Because a
talent, you know, implies thatthis thing was just, you know,
naturally gifted to you, andit's not really earned.
You know, you can have all thetalent in the world, but if you
don't work at that thing, itdoesn't matter. Or if you're not
willing to put in the time orthe effort, then that doesn't

(35:21):
really matter. But if you canfind the thing that you are
naturally, you have a knack for,you're gonna be good at that
thing. You're probably going tolove it and follow that as a
career path as opposed to, youknow, saying, well, I, you know,
I really love I don't know. Iwanna be a rock star, and I
wanna do that because I believethat's the thing that I lose my
mission in life, and I wanna be,like, you know, in a in a band.

(35:47):
And that might not be areasonable path for you unless
you have a very clear aptitudefor that thing. So instead,
maybe you'll find the thing thatyou're really built for and go
in that direction, which mightsound like laying up, but, like,
not really. I mean, you're stillfollowing a path that worked for
you. It's like I, you know, knewfrom a pretty young age I wanted

(36:07):
to do this type of thing. And Iwas very lucky that, again, you
know, it's not like this is themost reliable career path.
I was a child of the nineties. Ihad parents that were like, you
could you know?

Rob Lee (36:18):
Got it. You can do it.

You can go to clown college. Like, we've
we've all seen the intro to,like, Portlandia. People. But
the yeah. I don't with withoutsome level of aptitude, I don't
know that they would havesupported that.
And they also you know, I it itit didn't come before other more
serious things. Like, everyoneelse in my family has, like
they're smart. They have realjobs. They you know, you you

(36:40):
academics first. If you aren'ton the honor roll, you are not
gonna get to do this otherstuff.
So that there it was still avery practical side of it. But,
you know, I think I it was stilla situation where I was
following something that I had,a knack for

Rob Lee (36:57):
Yeah.

And then therefore believed I could just
figure out the things I wantedto do. And, I mean, that's kinda
how the carving thing started. Isaw images of stone carvings. I
was just like, that looks likethe hardest thing. And so it's
also it's gotta be the coolestthing.
How do we figure out that? Youknow, so it was just, like,
having once but I had theability, then I got the belief.

(37:21):
That was why I became anapprentice at a stone shop. It
was just like I knew I didn'tknow how to do this. But if I
was going to do it, I wanted tobe able to carve stone in a way
that was professional, notsomeone who was, like, a
hobbyist.
So it was like I needed todevelop the skill set first,
then apply it to the concepts,not the other way around.
Someone that comes in, they havea grand idea about what they

(37:43):
wanna do in this workshop. Youknow, they take a stone carving
workshop somewhere, and they endup with a slightly smaller block
than they started with. Youknow? I wanted to be the other
way around where I got theproficiency first so I had the
ability to apply, the techniquesto the concepts that I had, the

(38:04):
things that I wanted to say.
But it it needed to be in thatorder for me.

Rob Lee (38:08):
It's it's akin to when I watch my action movies that I
enjoy so much. Do you find,like, this villain in it is,
like, Juilliard trained? You'relike, oh, you actually are a
real actor. No shots, but you'rea real actor. You've been on a
stage.
You're not like, yeah, I used tolift weights, and I know how to
look menacing in on film now.You know? Because or and and one

(38:31):
one comment I wanna make, and Igot two questions after this I
wanna hit you with, but onecomment I I also wanna make,
when I think of and it justpopped in my head. When I
thought of the sort of skill andtalent, you know, debate, I
thought of this running bit thatCharles Barkley was doing on,
like, inside the NBA orwhatever, and he was just

(38:51):
talking about all these guys inthe slam dunk contest. He's
like, yeah.
You need to work in your jumpshot. You need to work in your
jump shot because eventually,you're gonna be able to just
jump over everyone. Eventually,that talent of being able to
jump is not gonna keep youaround. You know? You have all
of this right now, buteventually, the thing that keeps
you around is sort of thosefundamentals, those those skills
that you need of being able toplay defense, being able to this

(39:14):
sort of skill oriented stuff.
That's the harder stuff to do,not the you're genetically well,
not genetically, but you'regifted physically. And it's just
I just think about that.

It makes me think of and, again, it's not on
our topic of visual artists herein Baltimore necessarily, but,
like and maybe also because Ihave two young kids who are,
like, super in Spider Man. But Iknow I heard some interview
with, like, the newest SpiderMan.

Rob Lee (39:40):
Tom Holland?

Tom Holland. The the new and, like
yeah. Like, you were justsaying, oh, you know, he's a
superhero, so he's not avillain. But he's the hero in
this case. He's like Spider Man.
He's a badass. Look at all thestuff he could do. Like, well,
yeah. He's a trained balletdancer.

Rob Lee (39:54):
Right.

His child from childhood, he was doing
ballet. So most people, unlessyou're obviously, you know,
you're savvy or in the industryor you're a dancer yourself,
wouldn't look at Spider Manmovies and think, oh, ballet.
But that's why he can do that.That's why he moves that way.
That's why he looks that way.
That's why he has that commandof his body is because he had

(40:19):
that serious training as achild, through his youth. Like,
that that's where it's comingfrom. You know, you just you
don't necessarily clock it whenyou're watching a a web slinger
on TV.

Rob Lee (40:32):
A %. Absolutely. That's that's a really good
distinction. So stone. Right?
Unforgiving material. There's noundo button. I'm sure you I'm
sure you might have an undobutton or a tactic because
you're a very skilledindividual. I've I've seen some
things turn hard things intopillows, so, you know, that's
the thing. When you're you'reworking on a piece or or

(40:52):
something that might not go asplanned, and, obviously, I'm
maybe pointing more towards youryour personal work as you you
touched on sort of the they'revery specific things for some of
the clients that you've workedfor, work with, or have you.
Like, you gotta you can't reallythere's no one do button here.
You do this. So how do you whensomething doesn't go as planned,

(41:14):
how do you you pivot and how doyou adapt? And has there been
anything that maybe it's justlike, alright. This was a happy
accident, if you will, that, youknow, happened in the stone
because it's considered so, sounforgiving.
It was like it's set in stone, Isaid, with a smug sniff.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, there's a lot of
planning that goes into it. Andso the instances where, like,
something could go wrong andthat could be, like, the, you
know, proverbial happy accident,that is something that really
could only occur in my personalwork because it's not being done
for someone that's alreadyapproved an idea or drawing or
something like that. You know?However, you know, in in that

(41:55):
gray space, like, a lot of myeven my my commission work now
that's sculptural comes fromclients that have seen other
things I've done, then theycontact me to ask, you know, if
I can do something else that'sin that vein.
So, like, the current commissionon my carving table right now is
for, you know, a collector whoI've worked with I worked on
something in the past. It wasactually a restoration job for a

(42:17):
sculpture they had. But it'sthey they basically they asked
me to do a sculpture of twostuffed animals. They have two
daughters, and they each havethese stuffies that are, like,
very unique and special to them,each one. And so I'm doing a
sculpture of each one of them,you know, essentially a portrait

(42:38):
of these two stuffed animals,which is awesome.
It's, you know, something I'vedone in the past. That's
something I've done for my ownchildren. And so, you know,
because those forms are a littlebit fluid. Right? It's a stuffed
animal, so it's only gonna be soprecise.
You know, as I'm breaking thestone and pulling things apart

(42:59):
and well, I think of it aspulling apart. As I'm I'm
working the texture, I'm I'm notas concerned about, like, what
stone does or doesn't stay at aparticular point, because the
the form itself is a little bitfluid. Now in this case, because
these two stones are areconnected, I wanted to make sure

(43:22):
the two sculptures are from thevery same stone. So I wanted to
take one larger block and splitit and make them both from that.
And so splitting a stone is intheory, it should be a perfectly
precise process.
But in practice, like, thingsyou know, they break. Right? And
so I can do all the planning inthe world. I can put my cuts and

(43:44):
my wedges in the right place andbreak that stone. And when I
when I did it for what I wanted,luckily, it came out pretty much
how it was gonna be.
But I knew the break betweenthose two pieces is just like,
that is gonna be the live edgethat I have to deal with.
Whatever it is, that's the unionof those two pieces. Even though
they're separate sculptures,they're gonna come together in
this particular place. And sowhatever that looks like, that

(44:06):
is just gonna be what I workaround. So in that case, it
basically meant that not always,but often when I'm starting a
stone sculpture, I'll kindahave, like, an origin point of,
like, where I'm pulling all ofmy other dimensions from.
And so wherever that particularbreak in the stone between those
two pieces was, that's whereeverything is deriving from. So

(44:27):
I'm working outward from thatparticular point. You know, as
far as other things, I do a lotof work with, like, salvaged
materials. Yeah. So sometimesthey present their own unique
problems because I'm workingwith this piece of stone that I
mean, all stone's old, you know,several to many millions of

(44:48):
years old, but if these stoneshave been exposed or part of a
building or tumbled around orbroken or they've had stuff
through them, like, that cansometimes present its own
problem, especially if I'mmaking something that is
supposed to be very fragile,really thin, has, you know, a
lot of negative space in it.
And so, you know, I'm working ona piece recently that looks, you

(45:10):
know, a lot like a drapery,ultimately, and it was a piece
of salvage facade from, let'sjust say, a a local prominent
university, and perhaps in ourneighborhood. And so this this
stone had holes in it and stuff.And so so those are things I
have to work around. I have toplan my forms to miss what are

(45:34):
gonna be negative spaces or hidethem, because they had anchor
holes and stuff. And then therewas, like, something like, oh, I
could work around this thing, orI'm like, nope.
That's gonna go that's gonna beon the backside of the
sculpture. And I'm filling it inwith epoxy. You'll never see it,
but I need to solidify thatthing and avoid it. So I need to
make sure I adjust what wouldbe, like, my reference images to

(45:54):
account for this one particularplace where I'm like, I can't
take too much away there, orit's gonna get too fragile and
be, you know, not not safe,basically, to hang, or I need
to, like, find a way to carvethat negative space away
completely so it doesn't, youknow, foul what I have in mind.
So it's a little bit of a kindof adjusting for the individual

(46:17):
story of that particular stonein that case.

Rob Lee (46:20):
That makes sense. Wow. I mean, this just when you hear
when you hear planning, that'sthat's what I'm hearing. They're
very exacting with sort of whatthe process is to account for
any of those potential heavyaccidents. And you you know, I
got it.
You know? Again, like I said,you know, on the train, you
know, the carver is here, youknow, he you know, down to the
minute. You know? So I got thisone last last question, this

(46:44):
last real question. And it'sit's just more of a a summation,
You know, to the degree in whichyou can because I know that, you
know, you have, like, sort ofprojects that you're working on
that you can go in-depth on andsort of projects that you're
like, I can't really touch onthat one too too much.
But what is a project in, youknow, the remainder of 2025 here
that you're really, like,excited for and looking forward

(47:04):
to that you could speak on.

Mhmm. See. So yeah. So it's like you're I I
have a tough time speaking aboutstuff that's, like, in the
planning stages, both because,again, some things I I just
can't, legally. Also, thingslike, I'm never someone who
likes to talk about stuff that'sin a preplanning stage because I
feel like I'm more about, like,what what have you really done?

(47:31):
Like, Like, I don't know. Idon't like people talking about,
like, what they're thinkingabout doing. I wanna hear about
what you did. But I guess I cantalk about something I know I've
started, but and it's you know,basically, I've started a piece
right now that I you know, I didmy own personal work that is
actually kind of, like, mythinking on AI and AI technology

(47:51):
a little bit because it's theone thing that it you know, I
think, like, any craft personhas been kind of reckoning with
digital technology over the lastseveral decades, really. And,
honestly, none of it has worriedme at all.
You know, people ask me all thetime if I'm, like, worried about
CNC machines or routers, like,doing work. Like, not really.

(48:13):
That's not something I'm reallycompeting with, and and that's
just a tool. And certain timeswhere it's like, you know, the
sculptors use these things forcreating their works or, like,
getting a stone from 10 tons totwo tons when they're going to,
you know, make somethingmanageable. You know, and if
it's a carver using these thingsas, again, a tool to move
material, I'm not so rattled bythat.

(48:35):
You know, I I take a bit of adim view on sculptors who are,
like, not stone carvers, buthave a robot make their entire
sculpture and then call it theirsculpture.

Rob Lee (48:45):
The glass is down a little bit on that one. Right.

Yeah. So I might I might I might, you know,
shrug a little at that. But theadvent of AI in its generation
of art, like iterative AIgenerative AI and how it's
creating the imagery and doingit in three-dimensional space,

(49:07):
and that being something thatitself can be taken from, you
know, two d we've all seen thetwo d things, of course. You
know? But that same thing existsin a three-dimensional space,
then you can send that thing toa robot that will then knock
that out.
And it's like, so at what pointare we even really still making
the artwork when the entirety ofthe process can be taken over by

(49:30):
an artificial intelligence whereboth the creative process and
the physical fabrication processis removed from the human. So
there's a piece I'm working onright now that I'm, you know,
really excited about and justhaven't had as much time to put
into it lately as I'd likebecause of other work, where I'm
kind of thinking about what thatlooks like and what it means to

(49:53):
me and, like, how I get to dothis work physically with my
hands and with you know, where Ialways thought of the work with
my hands. I'm like, I'm stillalso using my brain for this
because that's gonna getreplaced too. And so how long
will I be able to do how longwill we as just a species? Like,
we get to do this work beforethe computers get to tell us,

(50:16):
like, you know what?
You're really not the best atthis. Let we got this. And so
I'm like, but maybe I should getit in now while I still have the
ability to, like, think of andfabricate this sculpture myself
on my own before ultimately thistechnology that we have created
betrays us and says, no. We gotthis part. Because I've I've
seen a lot of writings like thiswhere people talk about AI

(50:37):
taking all these jobs, andsomeone's like, well, take the
bullshit.
Sorry. I don't know if thatthat's gonna have to get edited
out. Sorry, Lily. But, like,take do do my laundry, wash my
car, walk my dog. Like, do thatAI.
Don't don't take my editing job.Don't take my create don't take
the jobs of the creatives thatactually like our work. You
know? And so that that's thefirst kind of technological

(50:59):
change that's happened in mylifetime I can think of, really
certainly in my career, that hasme rattled, and in particular
for my students. Like, they'remuch younger.
Like, I'm I'm probably okay. I'mpretty ensconced with you know,
I'm mid career, I guess, but,you know, that's taking away the
earliest, simplest work whereyounger artists cut their teeth.

(51:21):
What's gonna happen to them?Where are they gonna get that
experience? You know?
Because other tech can do it somuch quicker and cheaper, and
it's already there.

Rob Lee (51:30):
No. It's it's it's really one. Look, I I'm I need
to see some we we gotta talkagain because I, you know, I I I
work in the, you know, IT andsort of Mhmm. You know, playing
around with AI for a very longtime or you know? And, yeah, you
know, I I see some of the stuffthey could do with audio, and

(51:50):
there are a couple thousandepisodes of this voice out
there.
So I'm like, yo. Just justimagine. There's, you know,
there's another election comingup. The truth in his heart here
asking for your vote. It's like,that's not me at all.
Mhmm. I can use it creatively toget myself out of things too. I
could just lie and just, like, Idon't know. I'll be, yeah, Yeah.

(52:11):
I I I think you you touched onit as as I as I close out before
I hit you with these rapid fireones.
I think you you touched on areally key thing right there.
Like, it's something that youcan make with your hands. I
think that's a big piece, butthe mind part, it's just they're
not they can't, at least wherewe're at now, they they can't
think the way that we think.It's you might be able to make a

(52:33):
facsimile, but, you know,whatever comes out of here, they
can't replicate that. It's justnot there.
They could try to do animitation of it. You know? They
can do some sort of you know,elevate it really technically,
but it's like, it's not there.The imperfections and all of the
stuff that makes these humanthings human, makes the art the
art that comes from the mind,that comes from, you know, the
person, the human.

Yeah. I mean, that's that's that's
fundamental to the question is,like, to what degree I think,
really, ultimately, the questionis, like, to what to what degree
do we care? Right? Because Ithink that was always the
question before in terms of theCNC versus a hand done material
and stuff. It's just like,really, it's the user, that's
making like, meaning the theclient, I guess, who's defining,

(53:16):
like, whether or not they wantsomething that's done in that
way.
But now where this technology isso ubiquitous, so available.
Right? It's doesn't they'rethey're putting these things
out. They're making it more. Itit's like, well, what what do we
care?
How does that does that getregulated? And, you know, I
think it's one of those things.It's only really gonna be

(53:36):
regulated by people. You know,what do they wanna see in their
lives? You know?
Like, other I think of otherartists and illustrators and
producers or publishers andstuff that have come out and
said, we're not working withthis stuff for our, you know,
whatever our our particular, youknow, program of materials is.
And if we find out that any ofthe artists we work with are

(53:57):
using this stuff, we're notgonna work with them again. That
may be the only way this kind ofthing is handled just by
essentially, you know, end userintention. Do you want stuff
that's speed by, you know, AI ornot? I think that's kinda what
it comes down to because Yeah.
You know, sooner or later,something that's learning that
fast. It's like, I think wedon't really think about what,

(54:18):
you know, iterative means andhow how fast it really works.
You know, it's gonna in incapacity and ability, the those
things will catch up real fast.Absolutely.

Rob Lee (54:33):
You you you feed it with stuff, and I I see it on
sort of the the digital and thethe sort of media related, like,
work. You know, you see it withyou know, there's some digital
songs that are up for war. It'sjust like your your awards are
starting to come in question ifyou're allowing us. There's a
certain degree that's acceptableas far as I'm enhancing sort of

(54:54):
the audio, but this was done bya musician, not beep boop beep,
here's a song, you know, or, youknow, with, I think, even the,
Academy Awards this year, one ofthose movies, Brutalist, gotten
a little heat of you made anaccent that was not done by the
actor so it could actually soundlike the actor. You know?

(55:15):
They they did some audio didthey did some digital
manipulation of Adria Brody'svoice to sound more like this
particular accent, this,Hungarian accent. And Really?
That comes out and it's like, itis called acting. Right? You
know?
It's like, you're the bad atacting,

but at accents. Well, I mean, the the
thing is, like again, this couldbe an entire other episode with
people that are more expert thanme, but the thing that I again,
from the, you know, when I wearmy professor cap, when I'm
talking to my students, I'mlike, what I guess, what is the
difference, really? And andit's, again, it's organic
material. It's like, do we wantart that comes out of computers,

(55:56):
or do you want art that comesout of meat, ultimately? Because
what we're doing in a school isnot dissimilar to what we're
asking these machines to do.
Because I sit there with a groupof students, and I say, I want
you to think of a bunch ofdifferent ways to do this thing.
We're gonna call those thingsthumbnails, But I'm gonna want
you to use all the otherinformation I have hopefully
presented to you and you havehopefully listened to because my

(56:20):
lectures are just sofascinating. You're hanging on
my every word and you'reabsorbing it with a % accuracy
and you're taking all theinformation in. You're
synthesizing it in your younger,nimbler brain, and you're gonna
come up with a bunch ofdifferent iterations. Oops.
Sorry. Let's call themthumbnails. Of ideas that you're
gonna present to me, and thenI'm gonna sort out what I think

(56:41):
are the best ones. I'm like, ohmy what the what what's the, you
know, what is fundamentally thedifference? We're asking them to
that's how we learn.
That's how we come up with newideas. And then hopefully, every
now and then, someone comes upwith something that's truly
unique. Or, well, ideally, eachone of these students comes up
with a voice that's trulyunique. But it's it is a very

(57:01):
similar process. And so I'vespent a ton of time going in
circles in my own head of, like,where where where is the
distinction in here?
And is is it just thatfundamentally, organic versus
inorganic? You know? I don'tknow. And so that's why I think
it's it really is something thatcomes down to, like, what do we
wanna see in our lives, and dowe care where it came from?

Rob Lee (57:19):
So one of the takeaways I take from that is that your
lectures are the prompts. It'slike, as you're listening to
everything, you're not doingwhat I do, and I'm typing in
there, I was like, alright, as Ipreviously said. He said you
didn't get it right this firsttime. Redo, integrate, now, now.

(57:49):
So so now we got off our tech Solet's let's move in here into
these these rapid firequestions.
I got a few of them for you.They're not crazy, but
definitely speed is key here.Here's the first one. On
average, let's say mostrecently, how many hours of
sleep do you get generally?

I'm having six.

Rob Lee (58:09):
Okay. You're you're in the same ballpark, my guy. I'm
working up at four somethinglike, oh, man. I'm trying to get
out there. I I I know

it should be more.

Rob Lee (58:18):
I I mean, look. After after I hit forty, it's like,
how many hours, honey? Word?

I'm a hit 40.

Rob Lee (58:25):
Favorite color. You you were touching on, like, these
these midtones earlier, and Isee that you're wearing an an
olive or gray shirt currently.

I know. Yeah. This I mean, well, yeah. I
guess it's probably a sign thatthis is, like, outside of my
normal wheelhouse of somewherebetween gray and black. And this
is, yeah, olive.
But, yeah, I mean, I'm like I'ma sucker for gray and also which
I know is not technically acolor and all that kind of
thing. But, you know, it's notoh, there's all of that. It's a

(58:55):
value. It's not a hue.

Rob Lee (58:57):
I debate it all the time. That is my favorite color.
I debate it all the time. Prettygood.

When it comes to all my stuff and then,
again, I come down to, like,practical stuff where again, and
this isn't being very rapid fireof me, but it comes down to,
like, what we're kinda talkingabout off mic before. Everything
does kinda come down to, like,function to what I'm wearing
when I'm working, but everyonealways says, well, shouldn't you
be, like, a painter wear whiteor light colored stuff because
you're working in stone, you'regetting dusty all the time. I

(59:23):
said, no. Absolutely not.Because those lighter colored
things get stained reallyeasily.
So even though I'm working in amaterial that fundamentally
creates a light colored dustthat would settle on me,
obviously, I'm wearing almostblack or gray stuff all the
time. The shirts that I wear youknow, I own 20 of these shirts

(59:43):
that I buy through my buddy whocreates apparel because they're
a heather gray blend. And whenyou get a hole in something
that's dark, unless it is very,very tight to your skin, you
don't see that hole. It's likecut little holes in it. Also,
the only kind of stains Iencounter on an average day are
from basically machine oil fromthe tools that I'm using, and
those are dark.
So if I'm wearing dark coloredthings, they're gonna last

(01:00:04):
forever. And to the degree thatthey get dirty, well, they get
dusty. And dusty is not dirty,as I've explained to my wife a
thousand times. Just because I'mdusty, I'm not dirty, and dust
washes off. Machine oil doesnot.
So, yeah, my my color palettetends to be pretty limited in
terms of, like, dark grays,heather materials, you know,

(01:00:27):
just for that kind of functionalreason.

Rob Lee (01:00:29):
Dig it. Dusty is I wanna use that distinction. It's
just like, man, the place is alittle dusty. It's fine.

SEBASTIAN MARTORANA (01:00:35):
Not dirty. Dusty.

Rob Lee (01:00:37):
So here here's the last one. I'm always curious about,
just the things that that, thatpeople do, like the real life
sort of thing. So what what isyour, like you know, it's a
weeknight, you know, as we'rerecording this. What is that go
to meal for you on a weeknight?

What did my kids not eat before they took it
off the table and I gotta put itaway? I mean, honestly, I wish
it was, like, a sexier answerthan that. And, again, maybe we
were talking about this off micbefore, but, like, you know, not
to, like, deglamorize it orbecome unwizardly as you
mentioned. Like, it's not likethe sexy life happening over
here. It's like, what did whatwhere what's happened with their

(01:01:14):
food?
Alright. Get those kids. Makesure they're fed. When is
bedtime? I'm gonna eat my dinnerstanding over or at or near a
sink or a countertop, becausethat's what's left on their
plate, or I can microwave thisquickly.
You know, but it's, like, coolbecause it's a countertop that I
made out of stone that Ipolished myself. So I try to
keep, like, the cup half full inthat regard, but that that might

(01:01:37):
be the go to meal. That said, Ishould make the point that,
like, I am not a starvingartist. As you can obviously,
see, my wife, Amanda is anexceptional cook. And so, like,
she, you know, knows I have a,you know, pretty pretty big love
of eating.

(01:01:57):
So it's whatever you know? It'snot that I can't cook. It's just
that I don't have, like, a reallove for it in the way that she
does, nor do I have a talent orskill, as we discussed before,
those things that she absolutelydoes. So, you know, there's
almost always, like, somethingpretty awesome in my house that
she's made. It's just that oftenthe opportunity to enjoy those

(01:02:20):
things doesn't exist in the waythat it deserves, usually
because we're just shufflingfrom, like, one thing, whether
it's a after school activity, aclub, a soccer practice, a
concert, or something like that,you know, to the next thing
before when is bedtime when I'm,like, literally off duty.
It becomes a little tricky.

Rob Lee (01:02:39):
I mean, the visual of you eating over a saying, I just
see you just turning the hatbackwards like it's a switch,
like, Stallone.

Oh, right. Yeah. And not trying to hit the
faucet with it. But, again, softbrim for everything.

Rob Lee (01:02:50):
So that's kinda it. Thank you for for coming back on
to the podcast and

Thanks for

Rob Lee (01:02:55):
having me. Time. Yeah. Absolutely. And, in these final
moments, just, you know, I knowyou're not doing the social
media, but just tell folks wherethey can, check you out.

Yeah. I'll be back on it, and I keep it
simple on social. So, yeah, it'sjust I'm at sebastian moderano,
which I know is a a mouthful,but I'm sure you'll have it in
the show notes. But it's easierto find me just online. I have a
website, also made by mygracious and talented and
skilled wife, justsebastianworks.com.

(01:03:24):
So I feel like that's theeasiest thing. You think
Sebastian, he works. That's it.So that's the easiest way to
find me.

Rob Lee (01:03:31):
And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank
Sebastian Martirana for comingon back onto the podcast. And
for Sebastian Martirana, I amRob Lee saying that there's art,
culture, and community in andaround your neck of the woods.
You just have to look for it.

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#17 – Can Stone Carving Capture Modern Stories? | Sebastian Martorana

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#17 – Can Stone Carving Capture Modern Stories? | Sebastian Martorana