#22 – How Do 90s Pop Aesthetics Shape Modern Headwear? | Jerrill Sankey - The Truth In This Art: Stories That Matter

Episode Transcript
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Rob Lee (00:11):
Welcome back to the Truth in His Art. I am your
host, Rob Lee. Thank you so muchfor joining me for my
conversations that matter,conversations at the
intersection of arts, culture,and community. And I am thrilled
to welcome back my next guest.He is a designer and a creative
director of his own headwearbrand.
We first talked back in 2020,and I'm excited to catch up with

(00:33):
him about what he's been workingon since. His journey started
back in 2010 with his brandCreative King, and he's been on
a fascinating journey andevolution ever since. Please
welcome Jerrill Sankey. Alright.So, welcome back to the program.
See, I'm I'm classy now. I don'tcall it a podcast. I call it a
program. It takes it to a toanother level. Nice.

(00:55):
But it's it's been a littlewhile. We were we were chatting
a few, you know, a few momentsago before, you know, know, we
got on, on the mic's live thatwe first chatted back in in
2020. That's the first time thatwe we chatted, and I feel like,
right, I feel like I've worn mycreative king jacket much more,
you know, in the in the in thelast 5 years than we've actually

(01:16):
seen each other. You're a verymysterious man. You're you're
hard to catch up with.

Jerrill Sankey (01:19):
Yeah. Bro. Yeah. I'm all yeah. All over the
place, dude.
All over the place hiding in mymy lair.

Rob Lee (01:26):
So for for those who might be hearing for you hearing
from you for the first time, andI also recommend that they go
back and listen to your firstinterview, could you give them a
refresher, reintroduce yourself,and tell them about what you're
working on these days?

Alright. So I'm Jarell Sankey. I'm known
formally for my old brand,Creative King Headwear. Now I
transitioned over to mynamesake, Jerrill Sankey
Headwear. And I've just beenstill doing my thing, working
with up and coming brands, andjust all over the place doing

(01:59):
collection after collection,coming up with different
projects, different,inspirations to make different,
like, collections of things,man.
Just keeping it steady and justjust trying to find my way to my
next thing.

Rob Lee (02:14):
I dig it. And, you know, I remember one of the
things from our our previousconversation that stuck out. You
were you were real so he's like,man, I make hats, man. I'm a hat
maker. And I was just like,

oh. Yeah.
And then there there it's a lot of hat maker.
It doesn't stop, man. All day,every day, man.

Rob Lee (02:30):
So so making making hats and, you know, and we're
gonna talk about that a littlebit more. But I'm curious. Could
you tell us about, like, yourtastes, like, creatively and
sort of, like, you know, wheresome of that inspiration comes
from? And how did you cultivate,like, your taste? Like, as you
can see, you know, this is youknow, visually, I'm wearing a

(02:51):
Carhartt hat and a, you know,dusty black t shirt or what have
you.
This is utilitarian where it'scomfortable for me. Right. But
most of that aligns with with mytaste, and I'm I'm comfy, Rob.
You know? I'm I'm 40 now.
And, you know, things of thatnature. So for you, when it
comes to cultivating your tasteas it in as it as it's into what
you're making or what you'reinto, how did you come about

(03:14):
that? Like Well,

my taste I'm sorry. I'm gonna cut you off.
Go
ahead. My taste acquires from my childhood.
Okay. You know what I mean?Preferably from the ages of
well, hell.
From the ages of, like, 9 to Idon't know, man. 9 to, like, 17,
9 to 16, like, the nineties. Imean, just nineties kid, man.
And then you see a lot of thatin my work, Like, from the music

(03:36):
I pick, all in my Instagram,like, there's certain hats that
I make. I always try to find asong that matches it, and it's
always some hard, East Coast,like hip hop.
I mean, I'm a Southerner fromMontgomery, Alabama. So I mean,
like, I've just grew up I I justgrew up in pop culture, man.
Nineties kid, Ralph Lauren Polo,Tommy Hilfiger, like, Timberland

(03:59):
boots. Like, I'm a sneakerhead.I've been living up in sneakers
since I was, like, 9 or 8 yearsold, man.
It started for me in, like, 93.Like, so and then I it's still
to this day. I'm 40 going on I'm40 going on, man. 16 again, man.
Like, this is just always, man.
That's always my drive.

Rob Lee (04:18):
No. That's that's dope. It it reminds me of, like, it
reminds me of this thing. Like,I like I like wrestling. Right?
And Right. I remember, EddieKingston was like, man, I'm
perpetually in 1996. He's like,that's my fashion sense. And I
was like, this is amazing.

Yeah, man. My year is 1998, man. If it was me,
man, I'm just in a a loop. I'mjust in a loop, man. Hell, put
it like this.
I'm so nostalgic. I still I goon YouTube and I look up MTV
news segments Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Just to see the commercials.
You know what I mean? Just tosee the commercials that they
used to play. Like, when theyused to like, MTV was really big

(04:53):
on playing, like, people's, likewhen people's coming out with an
album, it was so many recordcommercials. You don't even see
that anymore. You don't seepeople advertising, like,
records, their albums like that.
I mean, well, we everybodywatches what they wanna watch
these days anyway. We don'treally watch television, so
we're always on YouTube orInstagram. So, you know what I
mean? Like, you don't releaseI'll I'll release like, I miss

(05:15):
that type of stuff. Like, I oh,no.
I I I guess the artist has moreleeway to do what they want
these days, but part of memissed the old days. I missed
when it was more mysterious.

Rob Lee (05:26):
Yeah. There you know, I feel like there's a a shift, and
I find that, you know, I havethose conversations with with
folks in our our age group whereit's just like, yeah, I'm
looking back at this previoustime because right now, a lot of
stuff, while perhaps it's agreat time to be an artist, it's
a great time to create. The ideais there of being able to cast a

(05:48):
wide net and reach so manypeople.

Right.

Rob Lee (05:50):
Parentheses, right, in in quotes. But it's something
about maybe it's a cocaine, butit's something about the spirit
of stuff that was being madethen and sort of the scene that
was then. I I have a buddy. Heand I just trade memes related
to Miami Vice, you know, backand forth all day.

That's dope. I like that.

Rob Lee (06:11):
And it and it's something about this, and it it
it it's it's I'm curious aboutit where

Why Miami Vice, though?

Rob Lee (06:18):
Just it's it's the fashion. It's the it's the
fashion. It is the I love

the art deco. It's not so art decoy.
It's it's

Rob Lee (06:24):
like the thing, the clip set. Right? You know,
running down a whole in MiamiVice theme music.
Yeah. Cold to Rome, maybe cold, you know, the whole
thing.

Right. Right.

Rob Lee (06:35):
So and and and I remember this is almost a segue
to the second part of thatquestion about cultivation and
taste. Like, you know, soexposure to, like, pop culture,
you touched on music and and I'mtouching on Miami Vice. I
remember as a kid, Miami Vicewhen that came on, that was like
my dad show. I remember whenthat came on, that means
cartoons was over for me. Now asan adult, I'm like, yo, these

(06:56):
are my cartoons.
Look how colorful they are.

Right. Right.

Rob Lee (07:01):
Is there an example that comes to mind that, like,
definitely shows up in, like, apiece or a series of work
that's, like, yeah, I made thisparticular hat because this
character from this show woreit. And I was just like, I'll be
damned if I'm not gonna makethat.

My my visions always go back to, like, the
magazines used to flip through.I don't know. Like, back in the
day, you you'd probably go toyou'd be stuck in the beauty
salon with your mom or somethingbecause you couldn't, like, go
to your cousin's house. You'vebeen there all day. And what
they have?
Magazines. Yeah. So you'll startgoing through magazines. You'll
see Ralph Lauren Polo ads.You'll see, like that was the

(07:37):
first time I ever seen, like,when the with the the Polo sport
campaign.
Like, you see Tyson Beckford,you're like, oh, wow. They got,
like, black dude, like, wearingpolo. You never really see that.
Like, you know what I'm saying?For me, it was a culture shock
seeing that back when I was akid.
So it's like a lot of thingsthat I I I I get my I I remember
my visual visuals from waseither a show that I was

(07:59):
watching, like, I was MTV Kids.That or, like, looking going
through magazines, man, like,and stuff like that. So I don't
know if that answered thequestion, but

Rob Lee (08:09):
No. No. It's it's media. And, you know, I I
remember and and I don't know ifyou still go by because this
it's been a rebrand, you know,with the, what is it, Nostalgia
Anthropology?

Yeah. Nostalgia Anthropology. It's like a mood
board page now.

Rob Lee (08:22):
Yeah. But I but I think it's something in there. Like,
it it captures a time, and Ithink we all look for that. And
I'm sure that there's a wordthat's in another language that
escapes me. I mean, nostalgia isis obviously the essence of it,
but it's just like that longingfor it because it felt I don't
know.
It felt like solid. You know?Right.

So I'm sorry. I would like to tell you to, like,
to touch in on that more. Yeah.I made the I turned it into a
nostalgic anthropology becausethe everything that I'm into
that's why I didn't have on onthat page. I just had the Jarell
Sankey.
So when you on my regular on mymain page, which is Jarell
Sankey, you don't see nostalgicanthropology. So nostalgic

(09:03):
anthropology was is theintroduction for people who find
my hats that from that route.Well, so so it has a lot of,
like, older people on it, but,like, now it has a lot of new
people that didn't know CreativeKing. So when they go in there
now, they see the things I'minto, but they see a little
sprinkle of the hats. So nowwhen they, like, click on the
Jarrell Sankey, they go over tothe page.
And all my everything that andyou'll see it from, like I said,

(09:25):
the music and all that. They'llsee how it all intertwines. So
that's like a introduction forthe faces who really don't know
who I am.

Rob Lee (09:32):
No. That's that's a good point. That's a good point.
And, you know, I I like that,and then I'm a move into this
next question. But I I like thatit's it's a vision.
Not only are you you makingthings and and operating in a
way that captures, like, whatyou're into and capture your
sensibility, your taste, and soon, but also, like, your tapes
show up in a different way asyou touched on the the sort of

(09:54):
music that you're choosing orhow you wanna present something.
And I find, like, folks thathave that mindset of sort of I
wanted to look like this. Iwanted to to make this feeling.
I wanted to have all of thesedifferent things in there versus
I make this, I'm moving on tothe next thing. And I find that
sometimes when we don't spendthat time and care to think out

(10:18):
of what we're doing in multipledimensions, I think that's where
we kinda fall a little short.
But I think when we havesomething that hits various
places or have you, you mightnot get a person that's gonna
buy a hat or inquire about ahat, but they're like, oh, oh,
this this dude gets it. Now whatdoes he make? And they hook you
get you they they get hookedthat way as to you've created a

(10:39):
vibe and a mood, and then thishappens to be a part of that
vibe and mood.

Right. So, like, but it's crazy because they then
they just see that it's justalways hats. I mean, because I
don't know. I just I don't know,man. I I make other things, but
I just rather keep it that way.
And, like and and my and anotherthing with, like, how I pick
music and stuff, it all comesfrom the energy of the hat.

(11:04):
Like, well, like I said,whatever it is and, like,
whatever the mood that I thinkit presents. Like, yeah. I mean,
yeah. That's just that's whatI'm really trying to do when I'm
when I'm doing that.
It's just show like, just giveyou a open look to where my mind
was at when I made that piece.

Rob Lee (11:20):
It it's it's carrying attention, and I think just
people aren't given enoughcredit for that. It it sets a
certain vibe, and it pops a lot.I like when people have really
good music taste, which you do.And when I go back and I look at
it, I was like, yo, suddenly mySpotify now is just like, I'm
just in this beast coast laneright now, and I'm just like,
yo.

Like, why do I have trouble

Rob Lee (11:39):
for some reason? Like, I'm supposed to be going to
sleep. What am I what do I bedoing?

Yeah. I had a couple people, man. I because I
so every now and then, I putsome drum and bass, like, some,
like, jungle music or somethinglike that, like, DK drum and
bass, and people hit me up andthey're like, man, what's that
one song you were playing? And Iput them on to it, like, bro,
thank you so much for putting meon. It's a whole another group,
whole another thing that I getto explore.
I'm like, damn, that's dope. Soit also opens people up too to

(12:03):
different things, man. Like so Ithink that's really cool.

Rob Lee (12:07):
Oh, yeah. So I wanna move into this. This is this is
a little on a more controversialside, but I'm curious about it.
There's there's often a aconversation around art not
being considered craft. Andwhile others argue, it
definitely is.
There's definitely some overlap.Where do you look at, you know,
craft as in the the the makingof something? Like, it's in what

(12:28):
you do where, you know, wheredoes that intersect with art? We
were touching on that a littlebit before we got started, but
talk a bit about, like, art andcraft and, like, where you feel,
like, you said or how you feelabout that conversation about
them not always being in inunison and being aligned
together.

I'm not gonna lie. I I was always a person,
like, as as society will paintthings, we always get caught up
in the into the different groupsof things. So craft was always
its thing and art was always itsthing. And as I started doing
the craft that I do for so long,I have people call me an artist.
And I and I used to think thatwas weird to call me an artist

(13:08):
because I thought I was like,artist, I don't know.
I don't really consider myselfan artist. I just make some. But
then I had to, like, after I wasI kept doing it all all along.
Now I really see the art in it.
Know what
I mean? Because the it because turning something
that's like, turning somethinginto something 3 d, like, to
make something, that's it's anart today or how you would do

(13:31):
that. Yep. You know what I mean?So so now I I had to take a step
back and, like, really look atit, engage it, and it is art.
You know what I mean? Like, Iand I I treat I treat the
fabrics that I use like paint.
Yeah. You know
what I mean? Like, especially, like,
sculpting in this to making itsomething. Like, that always and
and and another thing too thatnot to, like, get off point. Art

(13:55):
and craft all starts with avision. Yeah.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Sothere's really there's really no
separating the 2.
You know
what I mean? They both they both really clash
and they both come together asone, to be honest.

Rob Lee (14:09):
And I and I and I think that's like and that's why I
said there is a a level ofcontroversy with that question
because, yeah, I I think you'reyou're right. And I think that
there is, sometimes asensibility as to what is the
inclination, what is the intenthere. There are some people who
are, you know, perhapsclassified as artists because
they do something that that fitsin that realm, that, they may be

(14:32):
a sculptor. They may be a visualartist. Maybe a painter or
something like that, but it'sdefinitely with the sensibility
around commerce.
And I look at that slightlydifferent. I'm not saying that
artists shouldn't make money.They should. And they should be
paid, you know, all the money.They they give the seasoning to
making life worth living.
Right? Right. I find that whenthat's the focal point, I I I I

(14:56):
don't like it as much. I don't Idon't know why it just it it
feels different. And then I findthat a lot of times over the,
let's say, last 5 to 6 years,we've used words like creative
and, you know, and creativeentrepreneur and all of these
other things to try to takeaway, you know, the the title of
artist.

(15:16):
And what I was hearing from youis, like, you're not just
frivolously calling yourself anartist. There is you know, it's
like you you almost didn't wannaadopt it. There is a Right. Just
impression it.

It was the people. The people, like,
stamped it like that. You knowwhat I mean? So it's I I guess,
to be honest, it's really it'sreally from how I how people's,
how the the audience sees you. Imean, it get could be part of
it.
Like but like I said, III didn'tthink of myself as an artist.
But then, like I said, I startednoticing as I'm just doing this

(15:48):
craft, I started doing itcertain ways, and then I started
finding my own niche. When Istarted doing things like using
reflective a lot, making makingmy own, like, look that people
will see and they'd be like, oh,I know a guy that does that. You
know, does it that way. Like,when I started doing it that
way, then I understood that, youknow what?
This is art. Because, like, inin then I started calling things

(16:10):
I started calling them artpieces. I mean, because, really,
everything is 1 on 1. Most ofthe everything I do is 1 on 1
stuff. But I like, it got to apoint to where I was crafting,
turning things into a hat, andthen I got bored with that.
And then that's when that's whenthe real art steps in because
you wanna you wanna start makingit look like something that sets
apart from all the other becausethen you start getting all the

(16:32):
people to come and jump on thebandwagon and doing that said
thing. Like, I was like when Ifirst started making hats, it
was like 4 4 of us, like, 5 ofus that I know of in the
country. Now it's like, youcould turn it's so many pages of
people that do hats that makehats now. You know what I mean?
Which doesn't like, you gothrough the phase of, oh, man.
Damn. Somebody's gonna take myspot or something like that. And

(16:52):
then it's like, no. You've beendoing this. You're gonna be
doing this.
Because I'm true to this. Like,you know what I mean? I don't
just do it. I'm true to itbecause if I wasn't making money
off of it, I still will be doingit.

Rob Lee (17:03):
That's the that's the key thing. And you're talking to
a podcaster here, so think abouthow many goofy we're telling
stories and blah blah blah. Youknow

what I mean?

Rob Lee (17:09):
So Like, you don't do them the way I do them. Yeah.

And I and I and I and I and I also I know I know
my journey to to this point. Imean, before, like, I was making
stuff that people didn't payattention to. Like, I went
through that hiatus of goingthrough the through it being
rough, having stuff on a websitethat nobody ever touched. You
know what I mean? I know whatit's like to see what the year
of 2014, and the only thing youmade was, like, $300 for that

(17:35):
whole year to seeing, like,making $30,000 on the website in
a year in on 1 year.
Like, that's to me, like butit's time. It comes with time.

Rob Lee (17:46):
Yeah. You know

what I mean? So it's gonna all like, I I look at
it like this. As long as I staytrue to it, it's gonna stay true
to me. Stope. It's gonna lookout for me no matter what.
I'm gonna have my ups and mydowns, but that craft is gonna
always be with me, and it'sgonna look out for me just like
I wanna indulge in it.

Rob Lee (18:07):
Yeah. You know

what I mean?

Rob Lee (18:08):
I feel I feel the same way in in in doing this. Like,
you know, I've been a podcastersince 2009 and been doing this
since 2019. So I was already 10years in before I even started
this as a as a series and as anidea. And sometimes you get 5
downloads. Sometimes you get5,000 downloads.
And let's let's be real, not 5but sometimes you get a lot more

(18:28):
downloads. And, you know,sometimes you get really good
feedback and sometimes you youdon't. And, you know, I I stick
with it and I have this, youknow, we're all human. Sometimes
your ego gets hit a little bit,but I I do look at it like,
okay. No.
I got it. I'm gonna keep doingthis and this feels this feels
like the right thing and itkeeps me curious and it keeps me

(18:49):
interested and I try to getbetter at it and see all of the,
you know, the illegitimates outthere, but see all the sort of,
like, other people doing theirstuff and happy that they're
they're doing it, but alsowanting to do my own thing. And
that's what goes into to doingthis. Like, you know, this

(19:09):
season and going back out andreaching out to folks that I've
interviewed before and, like,yo, you wanna come back on?
Let's catch up and do it in thisthis scope.
It feels really cool. And thisis purely an idea. It's aligned
with me creatively trying toanswer a question like what are
people doing? How do they feelsupported? Where are they at in

(19:29):
their careers?
So I'm not trying to continuallyjust do the same thing. You
know? It's just like there's anarchive there. There's, you
know, interviews there is stillme, still my approach to it, but
I'm trying to creatively justkeep pushing the needle and
stretching those boundaries likean artist would do.

Right. Exactly. To make the refresher and make
it better for you again. Youknow what I mean? Like and trust
me, I know how that is.
You know what I mean? It'salways when you when things get,
like, calm down and you're like,oh, damn. Nah. It's like I gotta
get these gears working. Gottafigure out how I'm gonna, like,
keep it keep it churning.
But, hey, man. Like I said, youstay true to this. It's gonna
stay true to you. It's a part ofyou now. You know what I mean?

(20:07):
So it's like it's it's really nono stopping.

Rob Lee (20:11):
I mean, sometimes I get misidentified. It's like, yo,
there's truth in this odd. I waslike, my my name is Rob. You
could you just use the the name.That that'd be cool.
Alright. Cool. Truth in thisodd. That's

that's yeah. You know? So I

Rob Lee (20:22):
wanna move to this one. I got a few, like, questions in
this area. I think the secondquestion here you're gonna like.
Who are your design idols? Like,they are people that I look at
for inspiration.
I'll look at their interviewsjust to get a sense of, alright,
what kind of question do theyask? How do they go about asking
questions? Do they talk toomuch? I talk too much. You know,

(20:43):
how do they go about doing thething that they do?
And I think it helped shape myperspective on interviews, on
how to structure a podcast, andso on and so forth. For you,
who's left a an indelible markon you? Like, from a design
standpoint, from a fashionstandpoint, is there an artist?
Is there a particular magazineas you were touching on earlier?

Yeah. The the first time the the the my first
ever love of of an icon for mewas Vivienne Westwood.

Rob Lee (21:11):
Okay.

Like I said, I was an MTV kid. So you remember,
like, MTV used to have thoserock the runways. I remember the
first one they ever did, like,this is, like, the early
nineties. It was it had VivienneWestwood. And, like, I I've I've
heard that name because I usedto look in Vogue magazines and
stuff.
Like I said, hanging out, you'llbe in put your mom in the beauty
salon. They have, like, allthose magazines, so going

(21:33):
through that stuff. You know?But, like, yeah, that she was
one of the first people that Ipaid attention to. I love the
way that she did denim.
She had she she presented adenim collection. Like, her
stuff is, like, very, like, postpunk Yeah. And, like, that late
seventies, British, like, punkvibe. Like, stuff is really
dope, man. Like, that that thatwas one of the first people that

(21:55):
I ever sought eyes on to as anicon in fashion.

Rob Lee (22:00):
That's tight. I love it. Yeah. I love the MTV,
connection, dude. It it keepsYeah, man.

Love it. Like, no. I'm so like, as a kid, man,
you just I was so, like, Iwanted to, like, be in the
moment. Like, I wanted to seebecause you'd be well, you'll
see, like, the spring breaks andstuff you're watching and all
that. I used to watch all thatstuff, man.
And, like, all the shows andstuff. Like, I don't know. I was
just epiphany of the nineties,man, as a kid.

Rob Lee (22:21):
We we should bring back, you know, sort of, like,
jock jams or what have you, but,like

Yo. Oh, man. Like, MTV Sports?

Rob Lee (22:29):
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Man. Like, some

Rob Lee (22:32):
of the cringe dancing from, like, the spring break
tears was like, yo. You a

Downtown Julie Brown.

Rob Lee (22:36):
It's done. Yes. Yes. I remember this really obscure
show. This will show you how howdeep I've been to the trenches
here.
There was a cartoon that was onvery briefly, called Station 0.
That was the thing I rememberwatching on MTV. Yeah.

I remember Station 0.

Rob Lee (22:51):
Okay. Okay. You're in the trenches. We we we're we're
there. We're there.

Yeah, man. I remember that. I remember, like,
what? Love Live. Love Love Live.
What was it? That that show withthe Cupid. They had a show that
was, like, I wanna say CarmenElectra. Was it a I think it was

Rob Lee (23:07):
single out.

Single out. Yeah. Single out. Yeah. Yeah,
man.
Single out.

Rob Lee (23:11):
I was gonna look at that car.

Jimmy McCarthy? Jenny McCartney, man. I had the
biggest crush on Jenny McCarthyback then.

Rob Lee (23:17):
I mean, we we we we're there. We're there.

Yeah, man. Like, yeah, single that was dope.
Yeah. I

Rob Lee (23:24):
mean, look.
I'm just saying, like, let's just go to the playbook.
You know what

I mean?
Yeah, bro.

Rob Lee (23:28):
Bring each one of these to both of them.

I mean, you can't forget Beavis and
Butthead. You can't forget,like, all that stuff. Like, late
90s when they came out withDaria, that was cool cartoon.

Rob Lee (23:38):
Max. Like, yo, can I get some h g h in a purple
leotard? I could just walkaround like the Max. If we can
make that happen, I'm all forit. So I got I got this
question.
This is the second part of thisquestion. And then this is where
it gets real nerd and real deep.I think of, Yoji Yamamoto, the
the Japanese fashion designer.

Yeah.

Rob Lee (23:58):
He once said that creating is about making life
and resisting mediocrity,describing it as, like, life's
work, like, creating as life'swork. How does that perspective
perhaps, like, influence you inyour art?

This is the perspective of life's work?

Rob Lee (24:13):
Yeah. Like, like, making creating is, like, making
life. And it's Yeah.

I mean, creating for me, is very important to me.
It makes me oh, it makes me feellike I have a purpose. Like,
just just to know that I canmake something that can make
somebody so pumped and be hypedthat when they see it or when
they when they get it and theymessage me and they'd be like,

(24:38):
dude, man, this hat's so dope.And I always sit back and all,
like, like, damn. Like, what wasshit?
Like, what makes what makes thismove people? Like, make these
people so happy about somethingI made this act. Like, I think
it's so not not trying todownplay what I do. It's just
like it really has me in awewhen when I when I make somebody
else feel like that over anobject that I I may come to life

(25:02):
from a vision that I had. And itwas like, oh, man.
I'm a make this. They gonna lovethis. Like so that's what it
does for me. It makes me feellike I have a purpose, and it
makes me feel not onlyimportant, it makes me feel very
accomplished.

Rob Lee (25:18):
Well, now that's it's a it's a good thing. It's a good
thing because these these sortof next two questions definitely
are good follow ups to it. Thisfirst one goes about the
importance of of chasing avision as an artist, and I'll
give you this context. So, like,you know, I had this vision,
like, for doing this particularseason. I could have just said,
look, I'm gonna do a 100interviews and interviewing

(25:39):
people that I haven't talked tobefore and so on, and I'm gonna
do it this way, but I'm reallycurating and driving at a
particular point in in thisseason.
And the season is supposed to bebigger than what it's gonna be.
So I had to kinda table part ofmy vision. So for you, how
important is it to to chase avision? And can you speak on

(26:00):
like, hey, I got this grandioseidea and you saw it all the way,
you know, to its fruition? Andmaybe another time where, you
know, it's like, alright, Igotta make some concessions
here.
I can't really see this visionas fully right now due to
resources, due to time, orwhatever the thing might be.

Oh, man. That's just like that's a prime example
of that. I had a vision becauseI had this, Earth Day toad. 19
oh, you can't even see it. Ican't show it.
I had a 1990 Earth Day tote. AndI was like, man, I wanna make
some out of that. It's gotta becool. My first thought was, oh,
shit. Captain Planet.
So I started thinking aboutCaptain Planet. I was like, oh,
man. What else can I do to thisside? But it's just a plain tote

(26:38):
with green lettering, picture ofplain tote green lettering. It
says Earth Day as the a grid ofthe Earth, and it says 1990.
And I'm just like, man, youknow, it look cool. What if I
can find some fabric that had,like, cans on it? What's the
chances of finding fabric thathad cans on it? 3 days later,
I'm in the Goodwill and I find apair of Wrangler khaki shorts
with printed cans all over, likebeer cans. And I'm like, oh,

(27:01):
man, this is the this is what Ithought about for that hat.
Now I could go and I could putthis together. Then I'm like,
oh, man. What else I can do?This is a hat. I'm thinking
about recycling.
Oh, I have some I have some 100%recyclable Dyneema. So I'm gonna
add some Dyneema to it which isjust plastic made out of
different a bunch of fibers tomake a fabric. So I'm adding

(27:21):
that to it. And then I have theEarth Day. You got the 1990 on
the brim.
And then you're gonna have thecans on the side. You got the
recycled plastic on top. Thereyou go. You have a whole hat
that was just inspired by methinking about Captain Planet.
So that's how that plays out,man.
It's and I love how thathappens. I love when it happens
like that. Like, my visions comelike that. It's like it's like I

(27:42):
can either be watching somethingor it's just preparing 2 pieces
of fabric together to have, Idon't know, similar letters or
similar wording and to bringbring up one thing. It's always
like a bright idea moment, like,when I when I give my thoughts,
man.
It's it's pretty cool.

Rob Lee (27:57):
And and it's for you to to reason through. That's the
thing. Like, you know, like, Ialways have a notepad on me. In
fact, I wanna say it was maybe 2weeks ago. I woke up from, like,
a really weird nightmare, and Ireached to all my nightstand.
I was like, I know there's anotepad to pen here, like,
because I had to write it down.It I was able to get something
down. It looks crazy, but I waslike, this is a good idea. This

(28:19):
could be a short story. Thiscould be this.
It could be that. The braindoesn't turn off. And in other
instances, again, having thatnotepad on me or having some
writing instrument. I don't likeputting it in the phone for some
reason, but having the writinginstrument, I don't know, it's
just it keeps the full idea inthere, not just like the
sanitized version. So, if I'mwalking, it's like, this is an
interesting insight.

(28:39):
I might hear something. I mighthave a thought that hits me. I'm
like, I wonder what this personwould have to say about this
particular topic. What wouldtheir insight be? And I just
write it down and it worksitself into questions as as one
of the questions I'm gonna havefor you a little later is gonna
come up as it literally thatthat thing.
And and here's the the the sortof other follow-up question. You

(29:01):
you touched on, you know, sortof an experience where you saw
somebody wear your your your hatand they were, you know, just,
you know, expressing, like, howit made them feel and sort of
that experience. Could you takeus back to maybe one of the
first times you saw one of yourpieces out there in the wild?
Maybe it was one that someone,like, maybe got out of it, like
a shop or something that youdidn't sell directly, but it was

(29:23):
like a surprise and you saw itout there in the wild. What was
that experience like?

One thing I saw in the wild was I I I did this
thing with, what was that brandcalled? Shit. I'm so sorry. It's
on the tip of my tongue. It's abrand I did some stuff with, by
Borre.
I did some stuff with by well,by Borre sent me, like, one of
their packets. They send you apacket with a bunch of their
fabrics. They it's all theirfabrics are made from this big

(29:50):
woven machine. But, one of thepersons that was wearing my hat
is somebody known. But I'm gonnago to the very first time I see
somebody wearing, like, acreative king hat.
Sorry. I'm all over the place.

Rob Lee (30:01):
Good.

Like, first time I ever see somebody wearing a
hat, like, the first cool cooltime I ever seen somebody
wearing a hat was walking to mycar in Hampton. And I was
walking down the street onChestnut, and I having the fads
about his father. He gives me ahead nod. He's with his kid. And
I look up at his head, and hehad one of my creator king
lumberjack hats on, scrapperhats, and he's, like, walking.

(30:23):
And he had his hat on nice andsnug. He had the he had the
trapper rear flaps tied up tothe top. That was so cool to
see, man. I was just like I wasjust like, hey. How are you
doing?
And I I I never say anything. Inever be like, hey. I made that.
I only done that one time, man.But I that I I love when that
happens.
And, other times, like, somebodyhit me. I was like, bro, I was

(30:44):
in I was in a club inConnecticut. I see somebody
wearing a creative p hat. And Iain't believe it, dude. Dude
actually took a photo of it.
I'm like, what the hell, man?It's like, he was so and it's
like a one on one hand. I'mlike, yo. He's like, yeah. I
know what creative team you havewhen I see one.
I'm like, yo, that's crazy. And,like, what? So I didn't Ben
Barry, man. He had he had he hadthe hat on that I made out of my
Borae materials. Somebodyhappened to give it to him, and

(31:07):
he wore it.
He wore it hardcore, man, like,for, like, months. I thought
that was cool.

Rob Lee (31:12):
That's really cool.

But, yeah, man. Being and also being at Complex
Con in LA, seeing somebody withone of my hats on, that was
really dope.

Rob Lee (31:19):
I mean, that's that was all really cool. I mean, you
know, there's something aboutthat feeling. It's like a it's
it's a subtle validation marker.It's just like, alright, people.

Yeah, man. Oh, another recent one was, I do
luxury rap. I don't know ifyou're familiar with the luxury
rap collaboration I do withEthos De Quorum. We do a
collaboration called Lux LuxuryWrap. We're about to do our 7th
one.
It's where we make hats out of,luxury silks, like recycled
luxury silks, like, with theBalmaines, the Guccis, like, all

(31:47):
the crazy ones, like the oldone. Old ones, we we do, and
I'll we do a lot of watch brandones, like the, what like the
Rolex, bandanas. We do theTudors, like, all those.
Recently, Jonathan, he's a he'sin a watch club. He he went to
New York, and he was in theTudor store.

(32:08):
And one of our Tudor silk hatswas on display inside a case. I
thought that was really cool.Some people have been reaching
out by they've been not reachingout, but they'd be, like, a lot
of stylists. And, like, peoplefrom brands, they buy the stuff
and they use them for, like,exhibitions.

Rob Lee (32:23):
Yes, man.

I thought that was really dope, man.

Rob Lee (32:25):
I love that. I love that. That's that's really cool.
The the closest thing that I cansay is when someone hits me up
and they're like, yeah, I boughtone of your shirts. I'm like,
oh, well, shit.
You have you have me on your,you know, on your on your chest
plate right now, so that'sreally cool. But, yeah, it's
just something about being, youknow, having your stuff
acknowledged in a while whetherit be something that you're
making or there's been a fewtimes where and I try to I put

(32:49):
that mask on at a shysty I wasdescribing before we got
started. And I can't have thepublic see it. I'm a known
figure now. But, you know, folkshave mentioned, like, yo, you I
heard this on this episode ofTruth in His Heart.
No. But I will say it was thisone time where, you know, I have
the Rob Lee cocktail at Forged.Right? It's an old fashioned.
And I I remember I was there,and I just sat there one of my

(33:11):
friends and, you know, the oneof the waiters is like, you have
your usual?
And I was like, yeah. Yeah.Sure. And they always make it a
running bid. And I I I jump inon a bit to now say that I'm
contractually obligated to drinkat least 1 Rob Lee when I go to
Forged.
So I'm at a table with myfriend, and there's a table next
to us, and they're like, ah,this Rob Lee is a little mid.
It's just an
old fashioned. And I'm like, oh, shit.

(33:34):
It's like, you know, it could be better. And I was just
like, it's a really good trade,guys. You should try another
one.
Oh, man.
So so this is the sort of next to last question that I
got for you. And and this issort of like the real life
feeling back to curtain a bit.You know? So recently, I I found
myself feeling down about mywork, about about this podcast.

(33:56):
And in today's world, there'soften this sort of, like, an
unrelenting and underlying cycleof rejection, and the inner
critic fuels it.
You know? You'll feel like, oh,you're not good enough. That's
why nobody's spying it or noone's, you know, trying to be a
guest or no one takes youserious. Whatever the thing is.
I was at, sophomore, you know,in Baltimore.
I was getting my, getting mynormal coffee. And I don't know

(34:16):
if it was the caffeine or just asudden sense of clarity, but I
had this, like, consciousdecision to shift my mindset
just as, like, I'm a decideotherwise. I'm just gonna keep
doing the thing that I do, thething that gives me so much joy
and that I that I enjoy. And,and I do my best, and I try to
give myself some some moregrace, you know, instead of
feeling defeated. That was thedecision.

(34:37):
Let's shift your mindset. Haveyou had a moment like that where
sort of maybe external factors,you know, made you feel less
than and you you chose to justbe defiant and do something
different to just push forward?

Bro, I go through that every other year.
Like, every other year, I gethit with I probably start
gauging myself. I'd I'd do thedumb thing of going online and
looking at other people's stuffand see what everybody else
doing, not doing what you don'tknow what they had to do to get
to it. But then it's like I justpull back, I stay off the

(35:11):
Internet, and I get back to mygrind, and I just stay focused.
That's how I build my morale up,man.
I just, blunders on, man.Blunders on. I don't care about
nothing. When I'm working likethat, things go well. Yeah.
Things go well. I get I get theviews I want. I get all that
stuff. But when I'm worryingabout it, I'm just, like,
always, like, pointing at thisperson and how they're doing

(35:33):
this. Like, nah, dude.
You do better when you don'teven know what the fuck's going
on. Sorry, the nerds. No. No.It's factual.

Rob Lee (35:39):
It's so factual because you you see these other things
and, like, you you really had agood point there because it
always is this comparison thingor sort of that sort of lacking
defeatist mindset, and it's justlike you don't know what they
did. You don't know what theymay have given up to to get
that, and I value, and I'm Iwould imagine the same for you,

(36:01):
this this notion of I'm free todo whatever I want. I don't want
no one.

Exactly. Don't answer to nobody and gotta deal
with no extra egos. So whatwe're not gonna do is let our
own ego get the best of us. Sowhat we're gonna do is we're
gonna put our damn boots on orwhatever the fuck they wanna
say. Like, we're gonna put ourbootstraps on or whatever.
We're gonna march in, like, keepdoing what we do like we always
done it. Add a little bit moreumph into it. Stop doubting. And

(36:29):
just try to be much morecreative as possible. And and
and and add add a little bitmore fuck it to it and just
Absolutely.
Make it happen. Because yougotta do that sometimes, man.
Like, like I said, every otheryear, I go through that whole
little thing of, like, I'd be ina slump. And like I and, like, I
was I'll never and this goesback to the real conversation.
We was talking about reelsearlier.

(36:50):
Like, being on reels, man. AndI've never used to when I used
to be on IG in the beginning, Inever looked at anybody else's
page, never scrolled on noreels, never did none of that. I
was just in my own world. Whenyou start moving away from that
and then you start seeing, likelike first is the comparisons.
You start seeing other people's,like, say you probably see
somebody else's podcast orthey're doing this joint venture

(37:13):
deal or I see somebody thatdoing this, thing with this
brand and why didn't you do itwith me?
I think my shit looks betterthan theirs. Like, you know what
I'm saying? So it's like it goeslike that. But then it's like,
I'll I mean, you just step backand you're like, man, what are
you doing, dude? Like, you're agrown ass man.
Like, boy, if you don't get backto work, you just keep doing
your thing.

Rob Lee (37:34):
If you don't put your Ben Burry Crocs on and get
it together.

Exactly, man. Like, get out of here with all
this. Stop all that. Like, justjust keep just keep your plan
like you were. And I thoughtabout it the other day.
I was like, man, you know what?I'm happy that I just I sat back
and just thought about how Iused to be, and I wanna get back
to where I used to be. So I'mgonna get off this Internet and
stop looking at certain thingsand stop worrying about other
people's brands and worryingabout my own. Pour into my own.

(37:59):
You know what
I mean? Like, import into my craft. Because
they they talk

Rob Lee (38:03):
about the what is it? Comparison is like the thief of
joy. So it's just like

Exactly.

Rob Lee (38:08):
You know, if you're making it and you're you're
enjoying it and whatever elsehappens, I always have this
sensibility, and I call itriding the wave. Very Aquarius
in this sensibility, but I callit riding the wave. And it's
like, look. I have this beliefthat whatever it is, the
community or the idea of thecommunity, whatever it is, they
got me. I just need to keepdoing the thing that I'm doing.
And for lack of better terms,the people who get it, they know

(38:30):
I'm not for everybody, You know?And Exactly. That's just what it
is.

I say the same thing, man. Like, hey. My my
stuff my hats ain't foreverybody. Like, some people
rock with it. Some people wannapay that.
Some people don't. Some peoplelike design. Some people don't.
I don't care. I'm here for thepeople who wanna be here for me.
So, doc

Rob Lee (38:47):
Let me hit you with this last question, and this is
in that bent of and and it itdefinitely ties to this, but
it's in that bent around, like,advice but also sort of, like,
insight. And and so lastly,could you describe, like, the
courage needed to make work andto to put it out there? Because,
you know, I talk to podcasters.I, you know, I did, like, a year

(39:08):
of the podcast education thing.Right?
Teaching young developdeveloping podcasters in in the
college atmosphere and in thehigh school atmosphere and, you
know, presenting to them, like,this idea of, like, you gotta
record, record, record, getcomfortable with it, and then
you get to the stage where youwanna put it out there or so on.
And trying to really nudge themafter they've recorded a few,

(39:29):
they start getting so much asconscious about their voice or
how they do a show and, youknow, that insecurity starts to
creep in. But initially, they'revery gung ho about it. How would
how do we monetize? How do we dothis?
But, you know, once it starts tomatter to them, it's a bit more
courage. A bit more attentionwas paid and there are stakes to
it. So could you describe thethe courage that it takes to,

(39:51):
you know, build out thatwebsite, to go to these these
different events and put yourwork out there?

It takes a lot of courage, man. Sometimes I get
discouraged to, like, like, goto new places and new events,
But I know it's part of my job,so I can't. I can't, like, opt
out. You know what I mean? So Ihave to, like, make it happen.
But for me, it's like it'seither all or nothing. You know
what I mean? So that's how Iapproach everything. Like and

(40:16):
and and and now is what in thebeginning, I used to get really
weirded out, when I have a newchallenge to to level up to a
new place. Now it's like I gaugemy my next level up by getting
put out of my comfort zone.
You know what I mean? So, now Iused to be scared of that. And

(40:37):
that that and then I figuredout, you know what? When I'm
normally getting out of mycomfort zone, I'm going that
means I'm going to the nextlevel. You know what I mean?
So now I'm looking for that thatthat that comfort zone thing
that I need to get to that nextlevel. So the courage is there.
It's always there to pushforward for me and, like,
really, like, just to push Imean, I'm sorry. I'm having a

(40:59):
little brain fog. But, really,it's it's the people that I'm
trying to give the people whatthey want.
Like, I have a lot of peoplewhen I don't post things for a
while, they I have people thathave d DM me now or, like, won't
be like but, yo, what's goingon? When the next drop or this,
that, and the 3rd? Like, I havemaker's block sometimes, but,
like, the courage is alwaysthere to make new new

(41:21):
collections of things, like, andand to put new things out. You
know what I'm saying? So it'salways there.
I I have that drive, man. I Iit's just in me.

Rob Lee (41:30):
I hear you. I hear you. And I've run into that if

I was already able to play some bad, man.

Rob Lee (41:34):
No. No. You're good. You're good. And and I and I'll
say, like, I've run into this.
I I was in I was in NYC lastyear, and, you know, sometimes
you have this sort of notionthat, you know, people don't
care. It's just like, okay. Youput a podcast out there. You do
a thing. You may feel like it'sfor me, you may feel like it's
really, really good and it'sreally insightful and so on, and
it may not have the sort ofimpact that you think it could

(41:57):
or just people are disengaged ordisinterested or whatever it is.
And, you know, I I I went up toto New York for this this art
fair and I happened to see acouple of my friends who don't
live here. They they only knowme through the podcast, but I
went up there to see them, madeit a point to see them while I
was up there. And I find thatfriendship and connection
matters so so much. Right? Andthey'd asked me, like, yeah, we

(42:20):
saw that you got offline for alittle bit.
You weren't on Instagram. Youyou got rid of your profile
picture. We haven't seen youpost in a while. We were just
kinda concerned. And I was justlike, no.
No. No. I'm a real life person.You know, like, you gotta stay
off the online thing. It's likeI'm always gonna be making
stuff.
I'm always gonna be doing thesethese different things, but
sometimes you just have to takethat break to reset and have the

(42:41):
sort of, I guess, courage hereto acknowledge when you need a
moment, when you need to toseparate yourself from something
that doesn't work, or when youneed to take a a breather,
whether it be as a maker, as anartist, as a creative, whatever,
but you just need to have thatsort of reset and then re
reexamine, I suppose.

It's definitely needed. It's definitely needed.
I used to try to work, like,nonstop all the time, and it
took a toll on me. And then,like, I had to start taking I
had to start taking breaks, man.Now I do, like, mandatory, like,
week break in a month.
Yeah. Like, as far as, like Idon't don't get me wrong. I'll
still be working on projects,but I won't be trying to, like,
do it every day.

Rob Lee (43:19):
So when when you when you were on back in 2020, I
think I was doing, like, muchmuch more than I'm doing now.
But when I got to that highwatermark of 2022, I was doing
almost a I was releasing nearlya podcast per day, and it it was
just a lot. And, you know,you're like, I'm running this
way. This is great. But,eventually, it you know, I had

(43:41):
to intentionally, like, bring itdown.
So that year was 333. Thefollowing year, I brought it
down to 175. And now where we'reat as far as this year, I'm
looking at doing, you know, 50to 75 but really programming in
that schedule, putting thosebreaks in and taking what comes
with it. So, you know, theprocess, and you you saw it,

(44:02):
when I send over my invite, I'mtrying to be as hands off as
possible because it's a wholeanother job to manage some
creative folks' calendarsometimes. It's like, oh, here's
the things we got.
So I literally put in 2 to 3days in a week that I'm gonna
take any interviews, and then Iblock off certain weeks. And
people will say, well, I don'tsee anything available. It's

(44:24):
like, yeah. Whatever is thefirst one that you see, book
that. If you need to move it up,happy to accommodate.
But at a point, the schedule wasmore determined by who I could
get versus what was myavailability, and I was
overworking myself. And I had tocome to that realization. And
and again, having sort of thecourage to say, like, alright, I
can get this interview. Maybethis is not the right time to

(44:46):
get it. Maybe it doesn't fit,but this is what I need to do to
give myself a bit more time anda bit more insight and, you
know, I guess self care, but toto give myself the proper things
needed.
And I even put in there, look.I'm gonna need questions and
headshots and all of that stufffrom you beforehand. And,
otherwise, I don't like goinginto an interview unprepared.

(45:08):
It's my job to prepare, and theguest's job is, you know, to to
be them, to be able to speak.But if they haven't done their
side of it, I used to be, like,very much, I'll never be able to
get them again if they, youknow, they feel like I'm doing
this.
I'm very respectful, you know,but it's just like, look,
there's sort of standards that Ineed from you. And if you can

(45:29):
hit that, great. If you can't,maybe this isn't the the time or
maybe this isn't the platformfor it. And being confident and
being having the courage to sayno sometimes of this ain't gonna
work. Right.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no,

Rob Lee (45:55):
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no,

no So we got we got the we got the real

Rob Lee (45:57):
real work out of the way. Right? Now I got some I got
4. I've been I've added 2 sincewe've been talking. I got 4
rapid fire questions for you,and we'll close out on it.
And so we don't wanna overthinkthese. So that's I'll start
there because, you know, I we wewe get into it. You know, we do
the Aquarius thing. It's justlike, yeah. So, you know, if I
was doing it this way, right, Icould open I also could do it

(46:19):
that way.
It's like, alright. Hey. Justone. Alright. So here's the
first one.
Which profession would youswitch to if you lost your
creative or artistic ability?

That's a that's a good question. Which
profession will I switch to?

Rob Lee (46:37):
To use the X Men parlance, if you got depowered

Probably, I'm a say I'm a say, HVAC.

Rob Lee (46:44):
You've been HVAC guy? Yeah. Okay.

This is a that's a pretty strong moneymaker. It's
a good moneymaker.

Rob Lee (46:54):
I mean, I would probably become a bouncer. Okay.
Just

like I mean, look.

Rob Lee (47:00):
I like to go to shows. You know, it's

Yeah.

Rob Lee (47:02):
Wear a leather jacket. You know, it's great.

Nice.

Rob Lee (47:06):
I have, like, giant mutton chops too. I would just
look like a caricature. It'sjust like, I look like a
henchman. That's the goal. Whatis your my favorite material to
work with?
Oh, favorite material to workwith? Vortex. Okay. It's tight.
What is now we we touched onthis earlier, the nostalgia

(47:27):
piece.
Right? So I have one in mind andI want it I'm hoping I'm hoping
that it's the same, but of thedefunct brands that are out
there from your youth, right,which one would you wanna bring
back in this sort of creativedirector role? PNB Nation. Nice.

Speaking of PNB Nation, I did a collection of
hats with, one of the founders,Bluster 1.
Nice.
A graffiti artist.

Rob Lee (47:53):
Oh, yeah.

We did he did a canvas, and we broke it down and
made some hats out of it.

Rob Lee (47:58):
That's pretty tight as as well. I I was hoping you'd
say Wu Wear, but, you know, itjust Wu Wear

was amazing.
But,
I was really big on PNB nation.

Rob Lee (48:07):
I was really big on Mecca. And in high school, my
rap name was Nam Mecca, and Iowned Rebecca T shirts. I

Nice. Was a caricature. My second go to pant
go to brand was, Initche.

Rob Lee (48:23):
Hell, yeah. Hell, yeah. NYC. So this is the last one.
Given the opportunity this is,again, material related.
Given the opportunity, what'sthe material you would love to
work with for the first time?

Damn. I don't work with so many materials.

Rob Lee (48:40):
Chainmail.

Shit. That's a tough one because I feel like I
would work with some of thelike, that barbarian barbarian
materials, like, the top of thetop.
Yeah.
I didn't know I don't work with material from
from, Mayochi, Mayotech, thatbrand. It's a Italian based,
manufacturer. They make all thematerials for Stone Island, it's
Montclair. So I didn't I didn'tplay with some of the some of

(49:05):
the best materials out there.Yeah.
I've I've yeah. Nah. There'sthere's no other I can think of.

Rob Lee (49:13):
So I'm just gonna put you down for chain mail. I'm
just waiting for you just tohave, like, a hat that looks
like it's made out of armor.Right?

Oh, armor.
It's just
like, what is this king, author,

Rob Lee (49:28):
black god panel my man has? What is this? We're going
into war. That would be illthough to

have a, what is it, like, a armor armor 5 panel
cab? That'll be ill.

Rob Lee (49:42):
That'll be that'll be so wild with the flaps now. You
just have to have flaps on itjust because?

Right. Right. That'd be crazy.

Rob Lee (49:49):
So that's it. That's that's the podcast, man. That's
all of the questions that I havefor you today. So in that, there
are 2 things I would love to dohere. 1, I wanna thank you so
much for just coming back ontothe podcast and catching up with
me.
And, and 2, I'm gonna invite andencourage you to share with the
listeners, your website, socialmedia, where they can find you,

(50:10):
all of that good stuff. Thefloor is yours.

Thank you. So you can follow me on Instagram
on my one page. My main page isJerrell Sankey, j e r r I l l,
Sankey, s a n k e y. And mysecond page is nostalgic
anthropology. Definitely comethrough and find me there.
My website iswww.jeraldsynke.com. And join so

(50:36):
you'll find all my latestheadwear. Also, a new
collaboration I have with NatureDeserves Better is available
right now on my website.Apologize to nature. All hats
made out of recycled materials.
100% recycled materials. Yeah.And check that out. And I'm also
available at 16 Tons, 1021 West36th Street, Amden, Baltimore.

Rob Lee (51:02):
And there you have it, folks. I'm gonna again thank
Jerrill Sankey for coming backonto the podcast and catching up
with me. It's truly a treat totalk with a man of many hats.
And for Jerrell, I am Rob Leesaying that there's art,
culture, and community in andaround your neck of the woods.
You just have

to look for it.

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#22 – How Do 90s Pop Aesthetics Shape Modern Headwear? | Jerrill Sankey

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#22 – How Do 90s Pop Aesthetics Shape Modern Headwear? | Jerrill Sankey