#6 – Jerrell Gibbs – How Do Family Photos Become Museum Paintings? - The Truth In This Art: Stories That Matter

Episode Transcript
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Rob Lee (00:11):
And welcome back to the Truth in Us Art. I am your host,
Rob Lee. Thank you for joiningme for my conversations that
matter, conversations at theintersection of arts, culture,
and community. Today, we'rerunning it back, and I'm
welcoming back my next guest, aninternationally renowned painter
whose work explores thecomplexities of life through

(00:32):
deeply personal and universalexperiences. His evocative art
highlights joy, beauty, and eventhe mundane, drawing from family
archives and everyday moments torecreate emotional sensations we
all share.
Please welcome back to theprogram, Jerrell Gibbs. Welcome
back.

Jerrell Gibbs (00:49):
Yeah, man. Absolutely. It's a blessing to
be back. Thanks, for theopportunity. My name is Jerrell
Gibbs.
I'm an artist, specifically apainter, god fearing man,
husband, father, 2 beautifulyoung girls. And that's me, you

(01:09):
know, family man. Just enjoy theday to day process of
experiencing life with myfamily, loved ones, and friends.
But, yeah, like, right now, wejust had, a second daughter
scheduled December. She was bornthank you.
She was born, December 11th.And, you know, that's that's

(01:33):
been a process. We have a 14year old that turns 15 in a few
months. So, you know, you figure14 year gap. So we kinda like
learning this thing all overagain.
So, it's been a it's been a bigchange in our routine, but it's
been a blessing. So we're goingthrough that. And, in the midst

(01:54):
of that, I'm preparing for my,next solo show, which will be,
at Gallery Martis here inBaltimore on March 22nd, and
also preparing for, 2 solomuseum shows. 1 in September of
this year and the next in, inthe fall of 2026. So busy in my

(02:15):
profession, busy in my personallife, and I mean, just blessed,
man.
Just all around blessed.

Rob Lee (02:22):
That's that's great, man. Like, I I I don't have any
kids. Right? But I've beenaround it. Like, oh, like, my
brother, he has that same sortof gap.
He has a 1 year old, and his sonis about

to charge 16. Wow. Okay.

Rob Lee (02:35):
And he's like, I got a girl. Yeah. I don't wanna mess
her up. It's like, you got it,man. You're around.
And he's like, it's easy for youto say, all you have is a
podcast. I'm like, I was like,this is my baby, though.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Lee (02:46):
He But it it's it's definitely, you know, kind of,
like, relearning, and it's,like, going back, I would
imagine. It's, like, alright.What are we doing here?

Right. Right.

Rob Lee (02:56):
Things are different. They got different batteries
now. You know, the babies, theythey ran a little bit longer
now.

Yeah, man. It's a lot. A lot has changed in what
seems to be a short period oftime, you know. But, you know,
we we we're adjusting and doingthe best that we can, you know,
pretty much the same as we didwith the first one.

Rob Lee (03:14):
And and I like that, you know, as I go through and
and and look at some of youryour work in the the year since
we talked and even, you know,going back to, like, the the the
first interview, it's alwaysthis sort of, like, personal,
like, referential element toyour your work, what have you.
And I think, you know, justliving life and experiencing it,

(03:34):
it gives you these differentperspectives you wanna capture
and so on.

Yeah, man. A 100%. That's what my work is
about, just taking the time toreflect upon my life experiences
and documenting that, you know,in whatever way I can and, just
being true to my experience. Youknow, I think what I go through,
what I experience, what myfamily goes through and
experience with the people thatI love, go through and

(04:00):
experience, I think it's worthsharing. I think, there's value
in our stories.
And, I just wanna do the bestthat I can to, represent that.

Rob Lee (04:10):
Yeah. So talk a bit about, you know, since sort of,
like, how your perspective hashas changed perhaps over the
last few years, especially withsort of new beginnings and new
experiences. And and I say thatalmost selfishly. And I would
hope that I become a betterinterviewer over the these years

(04:33):
and sort of the things that I'mcurious about and the insights
that I wanna draw out of theguest are a bit different than
maybe when I started. So speakabout that as relates to maybe
the themes you explore and howyou go about your work nowadays.

Yeah. I think in the past, you know, it was a
it's a journey, you know, andthat's just life in general. And
I think when you really, for mespecifically

Rob Lee (04:59):
True.

I've taken, the chance to really go more insular
and to go further within myselfto kinda find out where I wanted
to go moving forward, if thatmakes sense. So, you know, over
the years as an artist, Istarted out, paying attention to

(05:23):
what was going on around me andkinda responding and reflecting
on that. And, you know, thelonger I've been doing what I've
done, the more it makes sense tome that what I bring to the
table is right here. You knowwhat I mean? It's right here
within me, right here within myhome, right here within my
community and my family.

(05:43):
And I really don't have to goout to these other places to
comment on things unless Ichoose to, you know. What we
experience on a day to day is isis more than enough, you know. I
don't have to go searching forfor things that aren't a part of
my reality or a part of my dayto day. You know? I'm not saying

(06:05):
that we don't enjoy traveling asa family.
I don't get involved in otherthings outside of my community
and my culture. That's not true.But, I I'm just more aware of,
the value within myself. Youknow, I'm more I'm more,
comfortable with who I am andthe story that I have to tell

(06:30):
and the story that Jarrell Gibbscan tell and nobody else can
tell. You know?

Rob Lee (06:35):
That's that's the uniqueness. And thank you for
sharing that that that all ofthat, but that last piece
definitely sticks out because ina world where we're getting this
fugazi stuff, we're getting AIstuff. And, you know, when I was
embarking upon doing this seasonand planning it out, I was like,
who do I wanna talk to? I wantedto go back to some of the
earlier guests to see you know,sort of catch up, really,

(06:57):
because we do have this habitof, you know, moving on. And so
and my thing is what you know, Ialways get all this feedback
especially when more and morefolks are aware of what I do
and, you know, sort of who Iinterview and so on.
And they're like, how do you getthis guest? I was like, I don't
know. I'm just being me. It's abig value proposition, I

(07:17):
suppose. And, you know, and andI even go back and look at how
I'm gonna tackle this.
I'm not trying to do a versionof someone else's podcast. I'm
trying to do everything and noteven looking at it as a podcast
because that term has become abit deprecated over the The past
5 years.

Oh my god. I got rid

Rob Lee (07:37):
of it. Almost. Yeah. I look at it almost like a a
living archive and and sharingthe importance of it and the
value, if not responsibility, ofhelping folks share their story
on the Right. Framework that I'mproviding here.
And this podcast is is verypersonal to me. And sort of
being able to connect with folksis very personal to me. That's

(07:57):
that's a that's a big piece ofit. So in terms of the the
stories, how do you go throughand like think about like, I
guess the ideation of, okay, Iwant to paint this, I'm going to
cover this as a arc. I'mcompelled to cover this work and
going deep.
How, you know, how far do youknow that you've gone deep

(08:19):
enough on a particular sort oflike subject or theme or, you
know, you want to maybe revisitthat things of that nature?
Like, how do you go through thatprocess of thinking? What are
the stories that you want topresent in your work?

Yeah. So what has been consistent throughout my
practice has been the use ofphotography as, like, the source
for, the the paintings. And whatthe photos do for me is take me
back to my childhood or take meback to experiences that I've
had that I can kinda relive andaccess because the paintings are

(08:54):
personal, and my best works areof experiences that I've had. So
I'm I'm really I'm really awareof that now. At one point in my
career, I wasn't.
Now I am. You know? And thatjust comes with experience. So
I'm more mature in that way. Ilook through these my photo
albums.
I'm constantly looking throughthose photos. I can look in I'm

(09:17):
still looking at the same photoalbums I've been looking at for
about 6, 7 years and finding newmaterial even though I've seen
the image already. You know?

Rob Lee (09:24):
Yeah. But it

takes me back to these moments, and, as of
lately, I've been really,spending a lot of time paying
attention to the subtle nuancesof the photos beyond just the
figures and the people in them,but, like, what was important or
specific about the environment,the domestic space? What was

(09:45):
important? For example, like,let me just throw in an example.
Like, I'm thinking about thispainting that I plan on doing in
the future. The photo that I'velooked at is of me when I was
probably, like, 12 or 13, andI'm holding some fish as catfish
in a plate.
And I'm looking at that imageand, you know, it's just a
regular image, but it made methink about that moment that

(10:07):
happened. And then it made methink about, okay, like, what
did my people do in order toprepare a catfish? You know,
like, what were the ingredientsthat we used to make catfish?
You know what I mean? Like,whether it's adding the hot
sauce, using the mustard to cutdown the fishy, you know what I
mean?
The fishy kind of flavor, thetype of, or meal used, you know,

(10:28):
the, like, batter it orwhatever. Like, all of those
ingredients, I'm thinking aboutthat I've had a personal
relationship and experience to,and I want to portray that. And
that wasn't always the case. Youknow. Like, I was at one point
in my career, I just wasn'tthinking like that.
But now I have the opportunity,because I've been repeatedly

(10:48):
going through the same processfor so long, I'm starting to
understand on a deeper level howthe little details are really
where it's at for me.

Rob Lee (10:57):
Yeah. So I you know, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask.
What what what kind of hot sauceis it, man? I'm I'm a hot sauce
connoisseur, so

You actually asked me this before. I think on
the first interview we did, Iremember you asking something
like I think he was like youasked me what's on the chicken
box, and obviously, it'sketchup.

Rob Lee (11:16):
It's just

something ketchup and hot

Rob Lee (11:17):
sauce. But,

do we have, we we love Tabasco.

Rob Lee (11:22):
Okay.

We love the Tabasco sauce, hot sauce. And,
what's the other one,sweeteners? The bread? No. The
hot sauce.
Can't think of the brain rightnow. Definitely, tobot is this
Frank? No. Frank's. It'sFrank's.
Yes. There it is. Preston. SoCrystal's half size. Yes.

Rob Lee (11:40):
The reason I asked because your your description of
kinda, like, looking at thenuances right Mhmm. Made me in
my mind's eye think of thispicture when I was a kid. So two
things. One, my first solid foodas a baby and I don't like
chicken wings. I don't likechicken.
I don't like chicken wings oranything.

Gotcha.

Rob Lee (11:57):
Was a chicken leg because it was smothered in
crystal's red hot sauce. Oh.Yeah. So that's why I asked that
question. People think I'm justtrolling, but there's nothing to
my madness.

Right. Krystal's hot sauce is through the
community, man. Like, that'sthat's the hot sauce right
there.

Rob Lee (12:13):
It is. And and the other thing I'll share, this is
a little bit more aligned. Mhmm.There's a picture, and I think
that there are, like, severalthings. You know, usually, it's
pop culture.
Sometimes, it's these othercommunal things that are time
capsules.

I

Rob Lee (12:28):
think food is a time capsule. I think, sort of music.
I think different things couldbe time capsules pictures,
obviously. And one that comes tomind is this picture. I always
wear like quarter zips and hatsas I'm currently wearing now.
There's a picture when I wasmaybe 7. I think it was like
security mall or something.Right? Really setting the stage,

(12:49):
and I'm wearing sort of thiskind of setup. Right?
Right. My glasses are enormous.I have this giant cup from
Wendy's.

Okay.

Rob Lee (12:56):
The biggie cup. Yeah. Yeah. So it just really took me
back, and I see that image andall those stuff around me
because I experienced it. ButI'm seeing all of the images
around me and just how big thesmile was on my face as a kid.
Mhmm. I still see that that thatkid in in my mind's eye, I
suppose.

Yeah, man. Absolutely. Good times. Just
reflecting on those. It's it'sbeautiful.
You know? It it just makes youappreciate, I also, I think,
like, the older I get, the moreI appreciate through looking
through these photo ops andstuff. I appreciate my past
more, and it makes me want to,be that much more locked into my

(13:36):
present. Because 5 years fromnow, I'm I'm gonna look back
like, man, I miss those times. Imiss those days of 2025 or 2024.
You know what I mean? Eventhough you go through your go
throughs in every year orwhatever, I talk to to I talk to
my wife about this all the time.Like, well, we both talk about
it. Like, how we reflect on thepast and things may have been a

(13:58):
challenge or it could have beentough years for us or whatever.
But we always talk about, like,the the joys of those years and
those moments, you know.
And, like, man, like, if wecould only go back and know how
good it was at the time youknow, like, I'm at a point now
where I don't want that to be mystory. I wanna really be,

(14:18):
committed to the present andunderstand and appreciate the
opportunity that I had.

Rob Lee (14:22):
Thank you. No. That's that's that's a really good
point. It's a good perspectiveas well. So I'm gonna move into
this this next question.
Because I always like to talkabout the IRL sort of
situations. Right? So, yeah, wewe briefly maybe seen each other
in a few different places, butthe one that sticks out is the
last resort artist retreat. Itwas just like, oh, I was
invited. I was like, oh, I Iknow him.
I was like, he's a little shortthan I was expecting. You know?

(14:44):
Yeah. No shots.

No shots.

Rob Lee (14:46):
No. It's all

good. It's all good.

Rob Lee (14:47):
It is what it is. But it's it's refreshing for me to
be able to meet people in thefirst time because, generally,
what I'm doing is is this. Thereis an Internet connection
between us. Right? And I thinkthe face to face or even as far
as that setup was those yearsago was you're breaking bread
with people, some people that Ibooked for interviews afterwards

(15:09):
and connected with afterwards,some people that, you know, I'd
already had some, you know, sortof awareness of and connection
to.
So being that, you know, thereare always this sort of the
personal stories within yourwork, could you speak on the
importance of that communityaspect, being around sort of
artists, being in those hubs?And like, why is it just really

(15:30):
important to connect in thatway? Because, you know, you have
your family. Obviously, that's areally integral, like, anchoring
piece. Mhmm.
But also, like, the art worldcan be lonely at times too.

Oh, yeah.

Rob Lee (15:41):
Being in and so on. So being around other creative
folks, other artistic folks tocommiserate, to trade notes and
or just have fellowship.

Right. Yeah. More than anything, it's refreshing
for me. You know, sometimes, youknow, your day to day can become
monotonous. And I think, for me,what works is, me getting out
and doing the things with peoplewho are like minded and artists,
obviously, you know, fit intothat category for me.

(16:12):
And when I'm around otherartists after I haven't been for
a while, it's always, like,super refreshing. And it gets me
more excited to get back and getto what I do, you know, hearing
the stories, hearing the thingsthat they're doing, ideas. I
don't know. And and the artistjust have we we just have, like,
different energy, you know? Andwhen you're around us, you can

(16:36):
kinda pick up on that.
And, I don't it just rechargesme, man. It gets me excited.
When I'm surrounded by peoplewho think like me for the most
part, and, there's just a lotof, ideas going around. There's
a lot of good positive energygoing around, especially in

(17:01):
Baltimore, like, where I am.Yeah.
Our community is very we're not,like, tight knit to the point
where you can't get in. Butwe're tight knit enough to where
as though, like, we care abouteach other. And we'll, like,
collectively get together and dothings. And we're sharing ideas,
and we're sharing, connections,and we're bigging up each other.

(17:24):
You know what I mean?
We're celebrating each other.Like, that feels good. You know?
It's a sense of community. And,I think that's important, and
it's it's really important forme.

Rob Lee (17:34):
Yeah. It's it's it's super important in in doing
this, you know, for over 800episodes at this point. And

just congratulations.

Rob Lee (17:42):
Thank you. It's it's a lot, man. And really, that's the
driver as I was sharing with youbefore we got started. Like,
there was a little bit of aroadblock, but the train keeps
going. The bus keeps going.
I'm not a not a car. I'm a bus.I'm a larger guy. So it keeps
rolling. But sort of that intentthere is to to build and to be

(18:04):
around sort of those those likeminded people.
So again, when I was goingthrough the curation or the
selection process of who Iwanted to chat with, it's like,
alright. Who do I wanna revisit?But, also, who do I think has
that energy that matches?Because there's folks that I've
talked to. I'm like, I don'tknow if there's gonna be a
reinterview.
I think we're set. I think we'regood here. There's There's

(18:25):
others. It's like, yeah, we needto get a coffee or beer or
whatever Yeah. Is to to keep itrolling.
Right. Right.

I can dig it. Indeed.

Rob Lee (18:32):
So I got a I got a couple more I wanna I wanna hit
you with, and we're gonna talkabout, specific work in a
moment, but definitely wanna getthe some insight around it. And
I think you've touched on it alittle bit, but I'm going to ask
it directly. You know, as anartist navigating the
contemporary art world, right,how do you maintain sort of the
and I'm using, for lack of abetter term, like integrity and

(18:52):
stay true to your vision? Youtouched on earlier, there's
only, you know, sort of with youand your perspective, that's
just the thing that makes youseparate. But how do you
navigate that while thecomplexities of sort of the
market I hear from folks all thetime and selling the way it used
to or the opportunities aren'tas as rich as they were.
How do you navigate that while,like, kind of being you and

(19:16):
sticking with the work andsticking to, you know, your guns
as it were?

Yeah. I think we all go through that. I think
that's just a part of theexperience of doing what we do
as artists. Yeah. But what hasbeen working for me is, again,
understanding my value and mystory and I've been knowing that
nobody can tell the story thatI'm telling because it's my

(19:42):
life.
You get what I'm saying?

Rob Lee (19:44):
Yeah.

And you can't find another Jarrell Gibbs no
matter if you it don't matterhow hard you try. You know? So
there's there's value in that.And I think when you really
understand that, you you kindatap into it. And that is that
gives you your confidence, youknow, in terms of, like, making

(20:07):
adjustments and pivoting for,like, the market and whatever it
is that's that that happens.
Those those things are alwaysgonna fluctuate. You know what I
mean? But staying consistent andstaying true to yourself is
where you need to have yourfoundation. You know, you gotta
be rooted in that. And for I hadto learn that, though.
You know, it wasn't like Ialways knew that. There was

(20:28):
moments where I felt like I hadto do things because it was the
thing that was happening at themoment. Yeah. Or just like the
comparison thing, you know,looking on social media and
comparing yourself to this,that, and this person, that
person, and the next person. Butthrough that, I got to the point
where I was confident enoughwithin myself, knowing that,

(20:50):
again, my story is my story.
Can't nobody tell it like me.And, understanding that no
matter what's going on in themarket or who's buying and who's
not, I got into this to tell mystory in the first place, minus
people weren't buying it backthen. You know what I mean? And
I was doing it. Yeah.

(21:11):
So why would I change it now?You know what I mean? Yeah. And
that has gotten me to where I amby the grace of God, guiding me
and putting the right people inmy life. It's come because I'm
telling my story.
Yeah. And all of, you know,like, I wasn't my success hasn't
come from telling somebodyelse's story or being somebody

(21:33):
else's. It's come from the storyof my life and my experiences
and the people that God has putin my life to help me kinda,
magnify that.

Rob Lee (21:44):
It's really good. It's really, really enlightening.
Like, you know, as as I wastouching earlier, it's always
sort of, oh, you do just this oryou do it. It's like, no. Let's
not make it smaller.
You know? And I I was like, whenI look at doing this, I was
already doing this. You know,I'd already been doing a podcast
and so on. And I find, it andmaybe it's true across multiple

(22:06):
areas, but I find there's sortof a pendulum, right,

where Mhmm.

Rob Lee (22:08):
It's just like, man, this is really popping right
now. Mhmm. And this other thingthat isn't just popping. Well,
it's gonna go back over thereeventually. That's just the
nature of things.

Exactly. Exactly. And if you if you aren't, like,
rooted in yourself, you're gonnabe just like that pendulum. And
then it's like nobody knows whoyou are. You don't know who you
are.
You're not consistent. Like, howcan you live like that? You
know, like, how how can you haveany longevity or sustainability
when you're all over the placeand back and forth like that?

Rob Lee (22:38):
Like, I

don't even wanna be involved with nobody like
that, to be honest with you, ona personal level. Artist wise,
anything because it's like, whoam I getting? You know, like, I
don't even know you. Do you knowyou?

Rob Lee (22:50):
Yeah. I I I see, you know, folks just kinda, like,
switch it up. They're they'redoing this type of podcast or
they're doing this type of artor they're interested in this,
and it's not a matter of tellingsomeone what they should or
shouldn't do. But I think sortof when you have these really
wild swings, it's it's like whatare you really standing on? What
what are you rooting in?

(23:11):
And, you know, I see that happenall the time here. Like, folks
tell me you should jump and dovideo, and it's an assumption
that I don't know my ownindustry. Mhmm. It's just like,
sure. You know what cost me thismuch.
Right? You know, these are someof the other things that are
considerations. Oh, really? Yes.Because I do this and I know
what I'm talking about.

(23:31):
Whereas, we're doing this rightnow. Put it in this context. You
have a real life. I have a reallife. Right?
We're able to get this becausewe have this technology. We have
an agreed upon time. We figuredit out and made it happen.

But it

Rob Lee (23:44):
was a booking, a studio and all of this different stuff.
It would be just sort ofpandemonium. And it's just like,
yeah, this is blown out andmaybe it gets there. But I'm
really curious and interested inthe isness of it. Can this
happen?
The conversation is paramount tome. Mhmm. How it's presented,
how I'm serving up thisconversation, we we get there

(24:06):
and I make those improvements.But at the root of it, it's
still the same thing, but justlike refined and polished.

Absolutely. You're an artist.

Rob Lee (24:18):
Somebody isolate that, please. I get I get the fly. I
got chills.

So let let's move a

Rob Lee (24:24):
little bit into, some some specific works. You know,
I'm I'm reading about I read alittle bit about and I checked
out some of the visuals, lastyear. You debuted Language of
Tears and the, what is it, JamesCohen?

Mhmm. Yeah.

Rob Lee (24:39):
A gallery, marking your first solo exhibition in in New
York.

Yes. Absolutely. Praise god.

Rob Lee (24:45):
How was that experience? And, you know, any
any key takeaways that that comeby? And what are some of the,
you know, the themes within thatwork?

Key takeaways, because New York is a beast. You
know, like, I'm just naturally,I'm always, anxious about New
York. I don't know what it is,you know, just like going, being
there. Once I'm there and I getsettled, I'm good. But just like
the thought of New York justalways raises my anxiety for

(25:14):
some reason.
I think, the the idea and thecontext of the show was me
reflecting on my, myrelationship with my father, his
death, and how it impacted megrowing up and even to this day
and, really taking the time tonavigate the emotions and kinda

(25:42):
to to really, dig into who Ibecame based on what happened,
if that makes sense. It was thefirst time that I created an
entire show about that, and andand that's what that's what I
got out of it.

Rob Lee (26:00):
Oh, wow. I mean, you know, again, the the the
personal element, like, I I was,you know, thinking a moment ago.
One of my, one of my friends,they, they lost their mom this
week. And, you know, I just Ijust had a birthday, you know,
recently. So just age is, like,on my mind.

(26:21):
I'm like, my parents, like, 6070 and sort of thinking about as
I get older, obviously thinkingabout my relationship with them
and how it matures and itchanges and being very fortunate
that both of my parents arestill here and valuing and
cherishing that. And then alsokind of thinking about like, you
know, if they weren't here at apoint, how would I what would I

(26:45):
be doing? How would I be? Whatwould my perspective be? Yeah.
How would that, you know, maybeI don't know. It's but so
exploring that is is a realthing and seeing how it shapes
and impacts you. And, you know,the one of the things that comes
to mind for me is, you know, Ithink I was I don't think I've

(27:05):
ever said this on this podcast.I was, in senior year, maybe
maybe 2nd semester, junior yearin college, and my grandmother
had not seen any of her relativegraduate from college.

Okay.

Rob Lee (27:19):
She passed in that she she passed in SMS. I was like
Wow. You know, I was justfeeling like always kinda like
this was a thing that Right. Ifelt like some some guilt for
it. And in terms of the creativeand artistic thing, like my
parents were all my family wasalways supportive, parents,
uncles and so on.
But in my, in my closet, my inmy studio, I have a bag that my

(27:43):
grandma's like a seamstress andI have a bag that takes my dad's
old, like, Vietnam militaryduffel in this, like, attache
sort of, like, bag that youwould put, like, you maybe, you
know, books and then, sort ofyour, paintbrushes and so on in.
Right. Because I'm really into,like, illustration then. Mhmm.
She took elements from his thingand elements from that and made

(28:03):
it together, and she was alwayspushing.
You keep drawing, then you keepdrawing. Wow. Having, you know,
trying to do that and finishthat, I think about that. It
was, yeah, it's almost 20 yearsago now. But definitely, it was
a it was an impact because, youknow, it's like I'm getting
close and this would be reallycool because she was at the high
school graduation and thinkingabout the the the college one.

(28:26):
I was like, no, I'm going to,you know, make her proud or have
you. She'll be able to see thisand. Right, right. You know, and
it wasn't for like art oranything, but it was just like
kind of one of those things thatyou're trying to do. So I that
definitely was something thataffected me and makes me, you
know, even now still kind ofthink about, like, alright.
You put forth your best that'sthat's definitely, you know,
doing something creative. Right.

Are

Rob Lee (28:47):
you falling into something? And that in part
comes from from her.

Isn't it amazing, you know, like, how we
subconsciously make decisionstoday based on, like, something
from so long ago. You know, youlike you said, that was 20 years
ago. Yeah. My father my fatherwas killed when I was 7. You
know, I turned 36 this year.
And I'm I'm just I'm sorry?

Rob Lee (29:06):
I'm 37.

Oh, lord. I turned 30 7 this year. Look at
that.

Rob Lee (29:11):
To say the same thing, actually.

I turned 37 this year. I'm thinking I'm turning
36. And, you know, I'm still I'mstill growing from that. You
know? I'm still minding that andstill exploring it and and
finding out ways that it hasimpacted me in the past and
looking to make changes, or justaccepting some things about

(29:34):
myself based on what happened.
You know? But yeah, man. Just Iwas also thinking about
fatherhood. You know? I think Ihad just found out well, what's
funny is I started working onthat show in March of 24, and
the show opened in May.
Mhmm. And I found out that wewere gonna have a second

(29:58):
daughter maybe in April. Yeah.So fatherhood, again, was at at
at the the forefront of my mindand thinking about him and
thinking about what hisrelationship and how he felt
about being a father and maybe alot a lot of the questions and
conversations that we never had,you know, thinking about what it
would mean for me to havecertain conversations with my

(30:20):
kids, you know, and theopportunity that he never had,
you know. So I don't know.
I was just thinking a lot about,what it means to be a father,
what it meant for me to lose himat such a young age, how it's
impacted me past, present, andfuture, and, you know, the
pivots that I'll make because ofit.

Rob Lee (30:42):
Thank you. That's that's great to have that added
added context there. And, youknow, I always like to say it's
like, you know, you watchsomething like you might get the
fictionalized version, you mightget the actual, like, almost
documentary version. I thinkthat full 360 is like, not only
are am I aware of the work, butalso I'm hearing it directly
from the artist. And it's like,you know, this is what I was

(31:03):
thinking when I was bringingthis together.
And this is also what I had thatmorning to when I was
conceptualizing.

I love it.

Rob Lee (31:12):
So I wanna move into sort of upcoming work. You you
touched on you you you served itup a little bit. It's called
called a tease in the radioindustry. You teased it a little
bit, some some upcoming work. Soplease tell us about, I I see no
solace in the shade, and I youmentioned, Gallery Martise as
well.
So talk a bit about, you know,what's coming up in the the next

(31:34):
year or year plus at this point.

Yeah. A lot. I have, 4 shows that I know, for
certain that'll take placewithin, the next 2 years. 3 this
year, 1 so far for next year. Ihave the, show opening at
Gallery Martise again on March22nd.

(31:58):
The title for that show will be,fearfully and wonderfully made,
and it's based on a personalexperience I had with my
daughter. She's been dancingsince she's, like, 4. She's 14
now going on 15. She's waybeyond the 10000 hours. You know
what I mean?
And thinking about how, youknow, one experience could have

(32:20):
potentially shattered her wholedance experience because of
biases and prejudice that havebeen perpetuated through, ballet
culture

Rob Lee (32:29):
Yes.

Way before we were here and that are still
dominating and present intoday's society. You know what I
mean? And and dance world.Right? So I'm thinking, thinking
a lot about that, and the workswill, reflect that.
So that's for March. That's forthe show there. My show, No

(32:51):
Salas in the Shade at theBrandywine Brandywine Museum,
which will be in September. Oh,I'm sorry. I'm jumping jumping
further down the line.
I also have a solo show openingin June at Dowling Walls
Gallery, which is in Maine. I Ithink I have the title for it.
I'm not gonna say it on here. Ijust wanna solidify the idea.

(33:11):
Sure.
But I know for a fact since theshow take place in June and
since it'll be in Maine, I havethis very very specific
experience with Maine. You know,like, every time not every time,
because I've been there in thein the winter too, but it was a
completely different experience.But when we go in the spring and

(33:33):
summer, oh, man, it just itmakes me feel good about summer,
you know. And it's not like aBaltimore summer. It's just it's
a Maine summer, but it it it'srefreshing.
Right?

Rob Lee (33:42):
Yeah.

So it makes me want to paint about summer, and
that's what the work will beabout. You know? It'll be about
my experiences of summer inBaltimore, what we do, you know,
as a family, how we cometogether in the backyard, eat
crabs. You know what I mean?Cook out on a grill, all of that
good stuff.
So that's that's what the showwill be about that, that, will

(34:06):
be presented in Maine at Dialand Wash Gallery. Again, that'll
be in June of this year. And, myfirst solo museum show will be
at, the Brandywine Museum of Artin Chazewell, PA, and that's in
September. The title for that isNo Silence in the Shade, And,
that'll be more, like,retrospective ish. You know?

(34:28):
It's not quite a retrospective,but it'll be, like, works from
2,000 let's say, 2017 up until24. So, man, I'm I'm super
excited. 26, I have my, soloshow with the Baltimore Museum
of Art. I haven't got the titleyet for that, but I know exactly

(34:50):
what I'll be, painting about andcreating art around. It it's not
gonna be just painting, sothat'll be exciting for me to
kinda step into a new space.
I'm super excited about it, butI'm trying to focus on
everything that I got coming upbefore.

Rob Lee (35:07):
That's that's great. It's, you know, big year. And we
gotta do the 3 peat, man, when,the BMA show. We gotta have you
back on. Just talk I'm

all for it. I'm all for it. I love you know, I
can do this all day.

Rob Lee (35:19):
But but, man, I I definitely am just in awe of
just the consistency, the youknow, you got 3 shows. You're
like, oh, I got this one that'scoming up as well. Like, my
man's always skipping shows, andit's like, oh, let me go back to
that point.

God is good, man. God is good. I'm telling you,
stuff just be falling in my lap,and it's not anything that I'm
doing. I promise you that.

Rob Lee (35:40):
But, I mean, you're but you're prepared for it. So you
you are you are then you'reprepared for

it. Absolutely. Yeah. So

Rob Lee (35:46):
I got one more real question. Mhmm. And, then I got
those rapid fire questions. Butthe last real question, you
know, I find when I have theseconversations in the community,
I have a have a few fans outthere. Not many.
It's like 3 people. For thispodcast, I don't have any fans.
But, you you do a wonderful job,like, capturing, like, personal

(36:07):
memories and sharing is a is asort of almost, an alchemistic
sort of, like, line to it.Right? It's like, this is a
memory now.
Here it is for you. Mhmm. Forfor younger artists starting
out, what advice would you givethem with the importance of
incorporating sort of, like,personal experiences and finding
their their own unique voice?You you were touching on sort of
there's only one you. Yes.

(36:28):
So, you know, a young artistwould would probably benefit
from hearing sort of yourinsights around that of just
kinda staying true.

Yeah, man. I mean, it's important. Your story
is your story. You know? Like,nobody else can tell it like
you.
And, again, the reason thatyou're doing what you're doing
is because you're talking orexpressing you. So stick to
that. My most successful, youknow, like, I think everything
is a learning experience and anopportunity to kinda gauge where

(36:58):
you are. But I would say my mostsuccessful works and by success,
I I'm not talking about monetaryor what other people think. The
works that I'm most satisfiedand happy with are the works
that are personal.
You know what I mean? And I feelthe most there's nothing like
leaving the studio and feelingcontent and comfortable and

(37:20):
confident with the work that youcreated. That experience far
out, far exceeds any type ofwire that's that's coming
through, any type of show, anyof that. When I leave the studio
and I've created exactly what itis that I felt and experienced
and I can share it with otherpeople, I'm at my best and I

(37:42):
feel my best. If I make a workand it sells, but I don't really
like the work, I don't feel,like, fully there.
You know? Like, I'm not wholewith it. You know? So my advice
would be to just continue to payattention to your voice and
understand that what it is thatyou're you're creating matters.

(38:03):
And you don't you weren'tcreated to be someone else.
You were created to be yourself.You weren't created to tell
someone else's story. You weremade to tell your story.
Alright? Your story is yourstory and and tap into that.

Rob Lee (38:19):
It's really good. It's a really good piece to close on.
Thank you for that. That's onethat sticks even with the I'm 40
now. So even with a an olderperson in this lane, I guess,
but it's just it's really goodto hear, and I think just
hearing it from someone who'swho's doing it.
You know? It's it's great. Yeah.I don't take advice from people
who ain't doing it. I wouldimagine a lot of folks ain't

(38:40):
doing it right now.
So

I'll write it with you.

Rob Lee (38:56):
So I got, like, 3 rapid fire questions for you. No need
to overthink these, you know,just to leverage the first thing
that comes to mind. Shoot.Alright. Here's the first one.
Which profession would youswitch to if you lost your
artistic ability? Like, rightnow, you're all the art's taken
out of you, like space junk. Wetook Yep. Your real secret
stuff.

Yeah. College football coach.

Rob Lee (39:17):
That's amazing. Yeah. I you you ain't hitting a gap hard
enough. Exactly. Not here withthe x's nose.

Slow too, fast through, baby.

Rob Lee (39:29):
I I I did this interview with, David Facule. It
it I I was, like, on this sortof weight loss thing, and he was
talking. I was like, yeah. I'llweigh about this. He was like,
I'll weigh about this.
I was like, yeah. We both on thedefensive line. Right? Off the
edge. I think you can I thinkyou can stop the run like a MF?
I think you got it. Yeah. You

gotta be a dog to stop the run, though. It ain't
just about the size, you know?Yeah. I've I've seen some big
some very large people that justdon't have no dog.

Rob Lee (39:58):
I I I think he has it. I think he has it. I'm not a I'm
not an interior guy. I'm anextra I'm just, like, look, I'm
gonna finesse around you. I'mgonna have the wife ringy.
I'm gonna spit off of you. Yeah.Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm an old cult.
So aside from, like, your yourwork. Right? What other creative
interests or talented talents doyou have that you're like, maybe

(40:21):
if I I pivot here, maybe this isanother area that I can explore.
You know how to juggle? Youknow, do you like look.
I know how to do this culinarything. Mhmm. What's the other,
like, creative or or or talentthat you have?

Man, I have a lot of talents, bro. I'm, like, not
even trying to keep my own. It'sweird. Anything I really take
time to focus on, I can reallyget pretty good at. I'll I'll
say this.
I'll throw a loop. I'll kinda dothe opposite of your question,
if that's okay. Please.Something that because, like
like I said, like, if I getreally into something, I can

(40:56):
really get good at it. The onething that I have been
struggling with for a long timeis writing.

Rob Lee (41:03):
Good.

I have the hardest time, like, writing. Not
writing a paragraph or asentence, but creatively
writing.

Rob Lee (41:14):
Sure.

So that's something that I would love to
do. I would love to be able to,write in a way that I feel
comfortable and confident in.That makes sense.

Rob Lee (41:24):
Yeah. I mean, let's let's let's add it to the list.
Next time we do, you know, we dothe part 3, it's like, you know,
as an exquisite writer, youknow, Robert, I'm here talking
about my writing. You know, I'vegot these 3 books. I was like,
yeah.

Hey, look, man. I'm I'm I'm telling you, like, I
have tried everything, and itjust don't click for the kid.
Like, again, I can write aparagraph. I can send an email
back, and I'm getting better,but it's at for my taste, it's
taken way too long. So it it gotme thinking, like, wow.
I can do this, that, and the3rd, but this one thing has been

(41:57):
such a challenge for me. I'llsay this also. I guess I I don't
know. I love sports. So baseballwill be another thing.
I'm I'm I'm really good atbaseball, low key. And, yeah,
that's something that I'm, thatI would probably do as well.

Rob Lee (42:13):
I'm I'm a I'm a big baseball fan. I've worked 4
years with the Orioles and theirevent staff. So, you know, I
always look at baseball.

And it's like If, hey, if they need somebody out
there to to lose a game as apitcher for them, that will cost
them so much less more money. Ifthey wanna pay me 500,000 to a
$1,000,000 to lose a game as apitcher, I'll let your boy.
Look. They can save money andbuild a roster. You feel me?
And then when it's time to cutme, they can let me go. But at

(42:43):
least they build that roster,and they got somebody they know
is gonna lose the game for them.

Rob Lee (42:47):
Look. They can bring me in, at least minimum. Right?
It's just like, I look like Ihave like, I'm 64. I look like I
got, you know, some talent.
There is none. You know,Gasolina will be playing. I'll
I'll put on a unit. I'll actlike I'm Dominican. And then we
we got it.
We but he did. You know? So thatthat's come on. You know? Oh,
just hit me up.

(43:07):
You know?

You still me? Hey. Look. I give them the I
give them everything I got.

Rob Lee (43:12):
Yeah. That's 81 out of the park.

Oh, the good day.

Rob Lee (43:17):
Really? What a good day. Oh, here here's the last
one I got for you. I like to geta little provocative sometimes.
So what is one belief that youhold about art or creativity
that many people might considercontroversial?

Everything that you create ain't good. Oh,
another one. Everything that Isee in a museum is not good.

Rob Lee (43:40):
Look. You're not wrong.

Just because it just because I'll okay. Just
because it's in a museum doesn'tmean it's good. That's that's
that's what I'll say.

Rob Lee (43:51):
I'll I'll share this, and that's a great observation.
And we will get ready to wrap uphere, but I'll share this. I may
have been at a museum. I mayhave been in a sort of like I
was with the partners with thegirl for girlfriend. I was just
like, you know, what are these?
Like, Wakanda cloths here. And Ithink the artist was behind me.

(44:11):
Oh, man. But it was justunfettered, and I was just,
like, it's great. It ain't forme.
And she just Right. Right.

Right. Right.

Rob Lee (44:19):
He's like, why is everything a pop culture
reference for you? I was like,this is how I live. So I I don't
know. And there's no shots toanyone.

No shots, man.

Rob Lee (44:28):
Look. I can't do it.

Look. I get it. But at the same time, it's like,
you gotta know yourself and becomfortable and confident enough
within yourself to know when itjust ain't it. And if if
somebody see my work in themuseum and they say, like,
that's not it, that's it. That'sfine.
Like, I get it. You feel me?Like, I'm I'm all good. I'm
cool. But, like, some stuff justI feel like, why is this here?

(44:53):
Like, really? Like, really?This? You know? Like

Rob Lee (44:57):
Like, we're we're getting there, but it's like
Mhmm. A little bit more. LikeYeah. Like Like, if you put a
little bit more salt in there,you balance the flavors a little
bit. Yeah.
I think this would work in thisthis this atmosphere. Yeah.

Mhmm. Yep. Well, you know, this is my opinion.

Rob Lee (45:12):
We we end on controversy, so thank you. So in
these these final moments, andand, again, thank you so much
for coming back. I wanna be in apart of this, this the second
round. And, I wanna invite youto share with the listeners just
sort of, you know, any finalwords, final thoughts, and sort
of where they can check you outto follow on all of the

(45:33):
happenings you have movingforward. The floor is yours.

Yeah, man. I would say keep the main thing
the main thing, whatever that isto you. You know, like, don't
get sidetracked with all thisother fugazi stuff that's going
on. Just pay attention to youknow, stay, you know, stay
aware. But at the same token,like, be comfortable and
confident within yourself andwhat you bring to the table.

(45:59):
You know, like, I see a lothappening out here, and a lot of
it happens. A lot of artists arebeing taken advantage of. A lot
of people are being takenadvantage of because they don't
have confidence withinthemselves. Don't think that
what someone else has is betterthan what you have. You know
what I mean?
Like, this stuff probably ismost of it is phony. A lot of

(46:22):
people are phony. They not whothey portray themselves to be on
social media. So let that go.But I don't know.
I just felt like I went on arant right there.

Rob Lee (46:32):
No. You're not. Oh, good. It it it it it dovetails
in your previous point, and I'msitting here nodding. I was
like, finally, someone else issaying, I have to be the neutral
host.
But here in the again, you know,it works.

I'm hey. Look. I'm going to tell it like it is.
And you get catch me on a wrongday, you'll get a whole you get
me on a soapbox for the wholeshow. But I think that's why
people gravitate to me and justlike my wife and just people
that I'm close with in generalbecause we're gonna keep it a
100.
You know what I mean? And it'snot disrespect to anybody else.

(47:06):
I just think society today isjust, like, did a complete 180.
Like, American culture hascompletely shifted, you know, in
terms of just people being realand just people being phony.
And, you know, like, word isbond is not a thing no more.
You know what I mean? Like,people people don't even care

(47:29):
about their neighbor no more.You know? Like, I had a grown
man send a message to, like, aFacebook chat that lives in my
community complaining abouthaving to pick up a piece of
trash in our community. And ourcommunity is far from, like, 30.
It's rarely you know, like, itwas a bad one day, so it was a

(47:50):
little bit of trash. I'mthinking, like, yo, back in the
day and I'm saying back in theday, like, I'm 60. But when I
was younger, I grew up and Isaw, like, men in the
neighborhood going aroundkeeping the community clean,
checking on women. You know whatI mean? Like, making sure if
something is bruh, if I sawtrash in the community, in my

(48:13):
neighborhood, and it's notalways trash there, I'm gonna go
pick it up and throw it away.
And it's not gonna be a bigdeal, but it's it's just
different, man. And I'm not withit. I'm not with it. And I don't
like it.

Rob Lee (48:26):
It's it's it's like the thing I was was touching on
earlier, that pendulum. Like,culturally, you know, I and you
you were touching on it earlier.Like, you know, when there are
people who just they don'treally stand on some things,
like, I'm less interested intalking. Like, you know, like, I
try to be professional in this.Right.
I take a journalistic approachto it and no shots. But I Mhmm.

(48:50):
Journalists all the time thataren't fact checking stories.
And they're just putting it outthere. And because they may do a
cool reel with it, they'relooked at as a source of truth.

Right.

Rob Lee (48:59):
And, you know, they get all of the impressions and
clicks. And I try to dosomething that has sort of
merit, thinking it personal, butalso it's just sort of the
statement of how how things go.Right. And my thing is you you
put forth a better intent. Sowhen I have conversations with
folks who are journalists, I'masking them questions questions
about journalistic integrity andhow they go about, you know,

(49:21):
marrying being fast Mhmm.
While also getting the storyright. Right. And I see a lot of
people focus on getting thestory out there fast versus
being accurate. And I've hadconversations in the last month
with locals, some businessowners, some artists, you know,
some people in the artsadministrative lane. That was
like some of these publicationsMhmm.

(49:42):
Have, you know, added fuel tothe fire of misquoting and
misreporting thing. And, youknow, at a point, you back in
the day, because now I'm gonnaact like I'm 60, you had to
issue retractions.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Rob Lee (49:57):
You can't just put out something that's just Right.
Inaccurate for the clicks.Right. And we we need to kind of
return to some degree ofaccountability, but also just,
like, people being moreconnected, people being more
real in the community. Andthat's what I'm a lot of times
in this season.
I'm driving that of, like, howdo we support? How do we feel

(50:19):
supported? How do we showsupport? And, you know, this is
an aside, but I remember I wentto the smokers tour years ago.
It was Currency, Big Crit, andMethod Man.
Mhmm. And I remember Method Man.He was on stage. It was a small
crowd, not a And it's asponsored by, like, raw paper.
So it's a very interestingnight.

(50:40):
And he was just like, yo, you'renot even acting like I wanna be
here. Mhmm. I'm here with thecameras. You're not even trying
to enjoy it.

Right. Right. Right.

Rob Lee (50:49):
And that's a precursor of what people are experiencing
now. And he's like, oh, I'mliterally within a few feet of
you.

Right. And you got me on your phone. Hey, man.
You're not for me, bro.

Rob Lee (51:04):
So so let let me let me hit with the wrap up. So just
tell the folks where to, youknow, follow you, social media
website, all that good stuff,just to stay up to date.

Yeah, man. I'm on, everything is Jarrell Gibbs.
I mean, I'm only on, like, 2social media platforms, and I'm
really on either. I'm deaf I'mon Facebook, but you I may check
Facebook 2, 3 times out of 365days, and that may be a stretch.
No no no b s.
Yep. Instagram, I'm on morefrequently, but I have cut that

(51:38):
down a whole lot. But you'll seeme post things on Instagram
most. Everything is JarrellGibbs. That's 2 r's, 2 e's, 2
l's.
Website is Jarrell Gibbs aswell. And, yeah, that's pretty
much it. If you really wannaholler at me, just shoot me a
shoot me an email, you know, andmaybe we can get up in real

(51:59):
time. But all of that socialmedia stuff is is trash for me.
I promise you this.
If it wasn't if posting myartwork wasn't a part of my
business strategy, I wouldn't beon any social media anymore. I'm
just so through with it.

Rob Lee (52:15):
Look. It's it's the same thing. He's like, you know,
this is why I I kinda rallyagainst it. I post a few things
here and there. And I I rememberI was gone for a bit because you
you were touching on New York.
I was up there with somefriends. They were like, you
posted a while. You know, justwanna make sure everything was
good. And I was just like, I'mgreat. You know?
But I was like, you got you gotyou got you know, I was saying

(52:38):
this to Dee Watkins. I talked tohim. I was like, yo, you got my
number. You know? That's why Iwas telling my friends in New
York.
I say, you got my number. So ifyou're, you know, concerned in
that way, just hit me up. Youknow?

It's that simple.

Rob Lee (52:49):
Versus sort of yeah. I just noticed that you have a
profile picture of any of thedifferent things. I was like,

does that mean that much?

Rob Lee (52:55):
Like, I wanna hit a real thing? Yeah.

Your n words bug me sometimes.

Rob Lee (52:59):
Like, let's be you know, social media is a fake
place.

Yeah, man. Yeah. People getting caught up and
lost, and it's like, they reallybelieve what their social media
is telling them, they Right.Bro, you are not that in real
life.

Rob Lee (53:15):
And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank the
great Jarrell Gibbs for comingback onto the podcast and and
catching up with me. And forJarrell Gibbs, I am Rob Lee
saying that there's art,culture, and community in and
around your neck of the woods.You've just gotta look for it.

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#6 – Jerrell Gibbs – How Do Family Photos Become Museum Paintings?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#6 – Jerrell Gibbs – How Do Family Photos Become Museum Paintings?